COMMENTS: 221
How to Save the Middle Class from Extinction
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...One thing I've been noticing on multiple debates in public policies -- climate change is another one -- is there seems to be an almost seamless transition from denial to fatalism. That for 15 or 20 years the people would say, "No, what you're saying is not happening." And then almost immediately they'll turn around and say, "Well, yeah, sure it's happening, but there's nothing that can be done about it."
And that's kind of the way a lot of the discussion now goes on inequality. That there is really nothing you can do to arrest this. That it's all the invisible hand driving this growth in inequality, and there's nothing you can do to really change it -- well, maybe better education. But while education is very much a good thing, it's the all-American way of dodging problems. Since everybody approves of it, you say we should have better education but wave away the pretty strong evidence that while it's a good thing, it won't make very much difference. So there's this general sense that you can't do anything.
And I don't think that that's what the historical record suggests. That in fact when we look at it, there appears to be quite a lot that the political process can do about inequality. Just to say, there's the obvious. Obviously, even if you look at the United States right now, the tax and social insurance system makes an enormous difference.
But the amount of inequality in the United States is substantially less than it would be if we did not have still at least somewhat progressive taxation, and still a pretty extensive, though not nearly extensive enough, system of social insurance. And that makes a big difference. Certainly if you're looking at say the United States versus Canada, a lot of the difference between the two countries is just that Canada has more of a better safety net financed by somewhat higher taxation.
And if you're looking for a progressive agenda, certainly from my point of view, a large part of that ought to be straightforward orthodox stuff, which is still very hard to do politically. It would be essentially restoring progressivity of the tax system, and using the revenue to improve social insurance and, above all, health care.
So, if you say what would I really like if I went into a Rip Van Winkle sleep and woke up ten years from now, I'd like to wake up and discover that we have a national health care in some version with the necessary funding supplied in part by higher taxes on me, or actually, the top two percent of the income distribution. But people a lot richer than me, of course. But it's not the whole story that the only thing you can do is taxes and social insurance. And the arc of history for the United States suggests that there's actually a lot more that can happen.
If you look back across the past 80 years or so of the United States, what you see is that in the 1920s, we were for practical purposes still in the gilded age. That may not be the way the historians cut it, but in terms of the actual distribution of income, so far as we can measure it in terms of the role of status and general feel of the society, we were still an extremely unequal royalist society.
By the time World War II was over, we had become the middle-class society that the baby boomers in this audience grew up in. We had become a much more equal society. That high degree of equality began to go away -- depending on exactly which numbers you look at -- during the late 70's, maybe a little earlier than that. And at this point we're basically back to pre-tax and transfer to the levels of inequality that we had in 1929.
So there is this great arc to the middle class, away from gilded age to middle-class society and then back to the new gilded age, which is now what we're living in. And there are really two puzzles about that. One of them is a political puzzle, which is why instead of leaning against these trends, politics has actually reinforced them. Why it is that U.S. politics moved left in the age of a relatively middle-class society, and moved right as society got more unequal?
A naïve view of politics would say that, "Gee, when a few people are winning a lot and most people are lagging behind, people ought to be voting for more social insurance and more progressive taxation, not less." And we have some understanding of why that doesn't happen. It has to do with the role of money, organization and all of these other things that affect politics. That story also helps us understand why politics gets so nasty.
If you actually look at some of the measures -- I'm really into quantitative political science these days -- of political positions that political scientists calculate, it does look as if what the main thing that moves actually over time is in fact the Republican party. The Democratic Party has not -- at least with northern Democrats -- gotten significantly more liberal over the past. They haven't moved much at all over the past 30 years.
But the Republican Party, which had largely converged on the Democrats in the age of Eisenhower, has moved sharply to the right. And so that one party, in effect, moves with the income of the top 5 percent or 1 percent of the population. So that seems to be the story. I mean, we can think about reasons why that might be true. But the other puzzle, and this comes to the question of the conference, is what drove these changes? How did we become largely middle class?
Why have we become a much more unequal society once again? And the standard, what economists like to say, is "Well, it's all invisible hand. It's all market forces." The history doesn't seem to look like that, if we ask how did the society we had in 1947, which is when a lot of our data start, come into existence.
Was it a gradual process whereas the economy developed and we got out of the early days of the American industrial revolution, we gradually moved towards middle classness? Well, no, historically it happened in an eye blink. In this Claudia Golden and Bob Margot classic paper, they call it the great compression. As late as the late 30s, the income distribution appears to be highly unequal.
By the time you wake up in 1946 or so, it's highly equal. And how did that happen? A lot of it was more or less deliberate compression of wage differentials during World War II. But if you were or had standards, supply and demand for different types of labor, you'd say that should last only as long as the wage controls lasted. It should have sprung back to where it was, but it didn't. It actually stayed quite equal for another 30 years at least. You ask, what buttressed that? Well, partly it's the rise of a powerful union movement, which is at least in large part a change in the political climate, but then remained in place for several decades more.
Other things we're not sure. But it looks more or less as a leveling of the income distribution. Obviously we want to be careful about the words. No one presumably in this room, and certainly not me, is advocating Cuba. We're not calling for a flat income distribution. But the relative equalization that seems to have taken place was engineered by a combination of top-down politics and grassroots organization that made people want a more equal society in the 30s and the 40s, and they got it.
And it remained for quite a long time. Now, that started to come apart roughly 30 years ago, and there's been a large increase in inequality since then. As people probably know, I've written about the part that is sort of polite to talk about, which is the rising premium for highly educated workers. But that's only part of it. Even more spectacular is the increase in inequality of the far-right tail of the income distribution.
The CEOs and high school teachers who got roughly the same number of years of formal education haven't exactly had the same growth in income over the past 30 years. So, there's this vast increase in inequality at the top. What do we think caused that? I actually just had to do a class on that. It was in my international trade class, but we were doing the trade and inequality stuff.
And the question is what do we think is underlying the rise in inequality in the United States? And searching for metaphor, I actually ended up with the "Murder on the Orient Express." Not for what actually happened but for the way we described it. In "Murder on the Orient Express," somebody is killed and there are 12 suspects. The question is which of them did it and the answer actually is all of them. The official economic story about rising inequality is one in which we have a whole bunch of villains, which all seem to be playing a role.
So we've got skill bias and technological change, which is shifting demand towards highly educated workers. We've got growing international trade with increased imports of labor-intensive products further reducing demand for less educated workers. We have immigration, possibly similar in its effect to trade. We have the falling real value of the minimum wage contributing at the bottom end. We have some affected unionization driving the change in income distribution.
Finally, in terms of at least the after-tax distribution, we have changes in taxes which have, in general, reinforced rising inequality. It could be true, but it's kind of funny that all of these different things should be working in the same direction. In "Murder on the Orient Express," there is an elaborate conspiracy that means that all 12 of the potential suspects were actually in collusion. It's a little hard to see how all of these factors and economics are in collusion.
Okay, I think that what we can say is that the political climate matters more for the distribution of income than the economic models that we know how to work with and would seem to suggest more than our models capture. If you ask me practically what I want done now, I think that the most important agenda thing right now is, in fact, to work on the taxes and social insurance side, because that is concrete and you can get stuff.
But there is a lot of reason to believe that a change in the political climate in various ways can do a lot more than you would think just from looking at the taxes and social insurance. Let me give you two pieces of evidence that I looked at. One is that there is some really interesting, though intellectually disturbing, work by my colleague, Larry Bartell who is in the Princeton Politics Department and has just looked at what happens to income growth at different points in the income distribution under administrations of the two parties.
Now there shouldn't be a big difference really because at any given historical period, the visible policies are not all that different. Certainly there is a pretty significant shift from Clinton to Bush and there was, in fact, a pretty significant shift from Bush to Clinton previously. But it's in taxes and it really shouldn't be very obvious at pre-tax distribution of income. And yet what Bartell finds is actually there is a really striking difference. Inequality on average rises under Republicans. At least in the bottom 80 percent of the income distribution, it's stable or falling under Democrats. The top 1 percent just kept on rising right through, but there is at least a surprising, fairly robust correlation.
The other thing I would say is timing. There's a very clear co-movement over time between income inequality and both the political polarization and the rightward tilt of our politics. It's pretty clear that the rising inequality over the past 30 years has been associated with a rightward shift of the political center of gravity, mainly because of the Republican Party shifting to the right.
You might say that's the causation running from income distribution to politics. But if you actually then just start to look at it through history, the timing actually seems to be reversed. The rise of an aggressive or rightwing movement and the rise of a really major assault on the New Deal great society legacy both come before the big shift in income distribution takes place.
The emergence of the modern right is something that obviously dates back to Goldwater, but really becomes a political force in the '70s. You don't really see the big changes in income distribution until the '80s. So it looks almost as if, just in this crude sense, politics is leading the economic changes. How could that operate? I just want to talk about two things. I suspect that there are quite a few channels that we don't really perceive, but there are two that are fairly clear. One of them is unionization.
Obviously, private sector unions were very important in the U.S. 30 years ago and have very nearly -- not completely, but very nearly -- collapsed, and they are down to eight percent of private employment. Why did that happen? You will often see people saying -- well, that's because of de-industrialization, and because of the decline of manufacturing. But that is actually not right. It's not right in two ways.
First of all, arithmetically, most of the decline in unionization is a result not of the decline in manufacturing share, but of the decline of the unionization of manufacturing itself. So the big thing that happens is that there is a collapse of unionization within the manufacturing sector and then of course also a smaller share of manufacturing in the economy, but it's much more dramatic on the collapse within the sector.
The other is that there is no law that says that unionization should be a manufacturing phenomenon. What it really is, to the extent that there is a story, is that large enterprises are more likely to be to be unionized. The reason why the high tend of unionization was also a period when manufacturing was the core of the union movement, is that at that time, large enterprises were largely a manufacturing phenomenon.
Now we have a service economy in which there are a lot of large service sector enterprises. Not to put too fine a point on it, but why exactly couldn't Wal-Mart be unionized? It doesn't face international competition. There is no obvious reason why it wouldn't be possible to have a strong union in Wal-Mart and in the big box sector and other parts of the economy. And just think of how different the whole political economy would look if the service sector enterprises were unionized.
Not necessarily all the effects would be positive, but it would certainly be very, very different. What happened? Why did manufacturing unionization collapse? Why didn't the emerging service sector get unionized? And the answer is actually pretty straightforward and pretty brutal. It's politics and aggressive employer behavior enabled by politics.
I have seen estimates of a fraction of workers who voted for a union and who were fired in the early '80s. They range from a low of one in 20 to a high of one in eight. There is no question that aggressive, often illegal, union busting is the reason the union movement declined. And the change in the political climate that began in the '70s clearly played a role in making that possible.
Now how important is all of that? You may have seen that there have been a number of estimates of the effects of unions on income distribution. It's funny. People will often say that those estimates are small and actually they typically are roughly comparable in size to typical estimates to the effect of international trade on income distribution. So these are both in secondary and the standard accounting to technological change, but both fairly significant.
What is more, there are a lot of reasons to think that those estimates are not capturing a lot of the story. As the people who do them will concede, what they basically do is say: What if the workers were paid, unionized and non-unionized workers were paid the same as they are now, and just do a sort of shift share analysis. What that doesn't capture -- and they know it, but there is just no way to do it better -- is the effect of a strong union movement on the bargaining position of workers who are not unionized, but might be.
It doesn't capture the effect of a strong union movement and possibly disciplining insider behavior by executives and so on down the line. So it is likely that that is a much more important story than we typically give it credit for being. Let me just give you my other piece of the story, executive compensation. There's a raging debate now of how much of the soaring executive compensation is insider self-dealing, and how much of it is just market forces.
I went back and was looking at what people said about executive compensation when it was low, just 40 or 50 times the average worker salary. [Here are] some quotes: "Managerial labor contracts are not, in fact, a private matter between employers and employees." "Parties such as employees' labor unions, consumer groups, Congress and the media create forces in the political media that constrain the types of contracts." And so on down the line.
A lot of discussion was of the role of the political climate that was basically hostile to outrageous paychecks and constrained it. Where are these quotes from? They are actually from [economists] Michael Jensen and Kevin Murphy writing, saying people have complained that there are not enough incentives in executive pay. They are saying that what we really need is to have executives get more stock options and stake in the firm -- in other words, all of the stuff that has happened since then.
So back when executive pay was low, 40 or 50 times average pay, it was actually the defenders of higher executive pay that complained that it was actually non-market forces that were constraining executive pay. Now of course that disclosing of pay has happened, the same side of the debate says it's ridiculous to claim that social norms and political forces have any role in this. But I think it's actually quite clear that it did. We can argue about which is the natural market outcome. But the point is, in fact, that we had a society 25 years ago in which there were some constraints imposed by public opinion, by strong unions, by a general sense that there were things that you don't do.
And maybe that led firms to make a decision to think of there being a sort of tradeoff between a "let's have a happy high morale" workforce, or let's have a super star CEO and squeeze the workers for all we can. There were some things that tilted the balance in that decision.
Okay, are we going to do another great compression? Hopefully not. The reason I say hopefully not is even FDR needed World War II to be able to carry out that sort of wholesale social engineering that took place. I am not looking forward to having a replay of that. I think that if we get serious, as some of us hope we do, and we actually do have a swing back in the political pendulum that -- in addition to the direct stuff -- we can do a lot to change the climate in the many small ways that add up to a lot of impact on the bargaining power of workers.
The ability of the bottom 80 percent of the population to get a bigger share of the total pie -- I think that if we get there, we may be surprised at just how successful we are at moving ourselves back, at least part of the way, to the kind of middle-class society that people like me grew up in.
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Posted by: Sojourner on Mar 9, 2007 1:01 AM
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When the union went out on strike during Reagan's first term, Reagan broke the union. I do not have any details but even that wasn't enough to convince workers that unions were necessary and that GOP candidates believed just the opposite. Reagan wasn't a revolution; he was a disease.
Again, I cannot cite facts and figures; rather only my sense of the gist of news items. But while CEO salaries may be the most obvious and outrageous exploitation of corporate board powers, corporate board members are lining their pockets as well.
It is way past time to revoke the protections that corporations receive as "legal persons." No, they are not entitled to buy political candidates. They are not entitled to the protections of the Bill of Rights. How much more damage must they do before such privileges are reined in?
Labor would be affected similarly. One unmentioned factor is that fewer union members means that fewer workers are being educated about their political self-interest. Yes, workers need unions to tell them how to vote. Since "you can lead a horse to water..." being told how is not coercive but educational. The education function of unions makes for a stronger democracy.
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» RE: Our democracy needs help.
Posted by: EagleMB
» RE: Our democracy needs help.
Posted by: Annarisse
» RE: Our democracy needs help.
Posted by: EagleMB
» RE: Our democracy needs help.
Posted by: kabac55
» RE: Our democracy needs help.
Posted by: EagleMB
» Supporting evidence
Posted by: Lector
» RE: Supporting evidence
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» RE: Supporting evidence
Posted by: peacefullaim
» RE: Supporting evidence
Posted by: EagleMB
» RE: Our democracy needs help, and you need an education.
Posted by: Blade
» RE: Our democracy needs help, and you need an education.
Posted by: EagleMB
» Why Reagan fired the air traffic controllers
Posted by: ISlamIslam
» And in the mean time, Reagan had no problem with the CIA ARMING OSAMA BIN LADEN against America.
Posted by: Jason Jordan
» And in the mean time...
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» IslamIslam = EagleMB
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» RE: IslamIslam = EagleMB
Posted by: ISlamIslam
» RE: Our democracy needs help.
Posted by: Poe
» Yeah, and the African American voters in Chicago loved Richard Daley...
Posted by: Sojourner
» THIS ARTICLE IS A **COMPLETE** JOKE!!!! UNBELIEVABLE!!!
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» RE: THIS ARTICLE IS A **COMPLETE** JOKE!!!! UNBELIEVABLE!!!
Posted by: Trazom
» RE: THIS ARTICLE IS A **COMPLETE** JOKE!!!! UNBELIEVABLE!!!
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» RE: THIS ARTICLE IS A **COMPLETE** JOKE!!!! UNBELIEVABLE!!!
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» RE: THIS ARTICLE IS A **COMPLETE** JOKE!!!! UNBELIEVABLE!!!
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» RE: THIS ARTICLE IS A **COMPLETE** JOKE!!!! UNBELIEVABLE!!!
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» RE: THIS ARTICLE IS A **COMPLETE** JOKE!!!! UNBELIEVABLE!!!
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» RE: THIS ARTICLE IS A **COMPLETE** JOKE!!!! UNBELIEVABLE!!!
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» RE: THIS ARTICLE IS A **COMPLETE** JOKE!!!! UNBELIEVABLE!!!
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» RE: THIS ARTICLE IS A **COMPLETE** JOKE!!!! UNBELIEVABLE!!!
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» RE: Our democracy needs help.
Posted by: dennidus1680
» RE: Our democracy needs help.
Posted by: imors
» "...a bad actor" who always played the good guy. Americans love beauty contests.
Posted by: Sojourner
» RE: Our democracy needs help.
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» "...the union was trying to bring the country to it's knees."? Balderdash.
Posted by: Sojourner
» RE: "...the union was trying to bring the country to it's knees."? Balderdash.
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» "Unions abuse...more so than corporations do..." Horse pucky. Look at who wins.
Posted by: Sojourner
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Posted by: Tom Degan on Mar 9, 2007 1:37 AM
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And yet poll after poll puts Reagan at the top of the people's list of the greatest presidents in history (just below Washington and Lincoln). What does that say about the intelligence of the American people - or, should I say, their jaw-dropping stupidity? There is a very good reason (or very bad reason - depending on your politics) why, upon taking the oath of office in 2001, that the First Fool signed an executive order that sealed the Gipper's papers indefinately: they don't want posterity to know the truth about the Reagan presidency.
The Republican party has moved so far to the right in the last quarter of a century that it's in serious danger of falling off the face of the earth. Think about if for a minute: The three top contenders for the GOP nomination next year (Romney, Giuliani and McCain) although traditional conservatives in the strictest sense of the word, are viewed by the assholes who control the so-called "party of Lincoln" as hard core lefties. I mean just how ridiculous is that?? Barry Goldwater, the man who literally founded the modern conservative movement would not be able to get their nomination today. He would be dismissed as a "maverick liberal". Indeed, at the end of his life he was working on a book with John Dean about the extremist shift the Republicans had taken in recent years. Dean completed the book last year. Called "Conservatives Without Conscience", it is a must-read any way you slice it.
Pray for peace.
Tom Degan
Goshen, NY
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» It was RAY-GUN whose buddies installed Saddham Hussein and ARMED Osama Bin Laden with the CIA's help
Posted by: Jason Jordan
» RE: It was RAY-GUN whose buddies installed Saddham Hussein and ARMED Osama Bin Laden with the CIA's help
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» Typical rightwing bullshit. Blame Carter but still defend RAY-GUN for ARMING, TRAINING, and FUNDING
Posted by: Jason Jordan
» RE: Typical rightwing bullshit. Blame Carter but still defend RAY-GUN for ARMING, TRAINING, and FUNDING
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» And more PROOF that Hussein and Osama were knowingly trained, funded, armed strengthened by RAY-GUN.
Posted by: Jason Jordan
» You suspect but have no real evidence
Posted by: Lector
» RE: Oh, so it wasn't Reagan?
Posted by: dangerouslysane
» Naw, it was Bush Sr who hired Rumsfeld... Remember, Bush, Rumsfeld, cheney and others worked togethe
Posted by: Prophit
» There's plenty of blame to go around.
Posted by: brad
» Hey Chooch, learn some economics
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» Hey Chooch(?), learn to read.
Posted by: brad
» Your right about Voelker, but aren't you guys getting the picture yet???? These Presidents..
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» RE: CRAPPY DAYS ARE HERE AGAIN
Posted by: Poe
» RE: CRAPPY DAYS ARE HERE AGAIN
Posted by: Poe
» RE: CRAPPY DAYS ARE HERE AGAIN
Posted by: Poe
» FAWLTY TOWERS
Posted by: Tom Degan
» CRAPPY (Right Wing Troller Posts) ARE HERE AGAIN
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» RE: CRAPPY DAYS ARE HERE AGAIN
Posted by: freedom_rings
» AMERICA'S BIGGEST PROBLEM: the average American
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» damn ssegallmd,
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» I'm afraid I agree...
Posted by: mjabele
» RISK-BENEFIT ANALYSIS OF CONTINUED LIFE IN AMERICA - Pt I
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» RISK-BENEFIT ANALYSIS OF CONTINUED LIFE IN AMERICA - Pt II
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» RE: CRAPPY DAYS ARE HERE AGAIN
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» Give 'em hell Tom! Reagan sucks!
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» RE: CRAPPY DAYS ARE HERE AGAIN
Posted by: Gerald
» RE: CRAPPY DAYS ARE HERE AGAIN
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» RE: CRAPPY DAYS ARE HERE AGAIN
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» Tom---you hit the nail on the head!
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» RE: CRAPPY DAYS ARE HERE AGAIN
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» The only reason RAY-GUN won was BLIND FLUKE from people's INFATUATION.
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» RE: The only reason RAY-GUN won was BLIND FLUKE from people's INFATUATION.
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» RAY-GUN's FUCKED UP ideology is hitting the ceiling and it won't be long before
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» BUZZ OFF, FREAK
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» RE: BUZZ OFF, FREAK
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» FUCKED UP Conservasaurus is hardly a real conservative or he wouldn't be licking RAY-GUN's ASS !
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» TO AN UNWELCOME PIECE OF CONSERVATIVE TRASH:
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» You're great.
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» Thanks
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» ssegallmd lost his mind????
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» RE: ssegallmd lost his mind????
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» Tom its a good argument for not letting the President run the Country. It wasn't Reagan who...
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» To a most welcome piece of progressive intellect. . .
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» Thanks
Posted by: LMNOP
» RE: Tom its a good argument for not letting the President run the Country. It wasn't Reagan who...
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Posted by: Tom Degan on Mar 9, 2007 1:42 AM
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Our Long National Nightmare
Tom Degan
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» Some comments!
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» Conservasaurus
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» Is that a proper response?
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» strange daze indeed
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» POT TO KETTLE: COME IN PLEASE!
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Posted by: Temporary on Mar 9, 2007 3:36 AM
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Posted by: brad on Mar 9, 2007 4:41 AM
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Of course politics leads economics, actually they are the same thing even though economists like to treat economics as an independent phenomena, it isn't. It is this semblance of separation and the degree to public knowledge of it that contributes to wether it is a highly wealth stratified country or not.
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Posted by: Annarisse on Mar 9, 2007 4:43 AM
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I know a few nurses who work in non-union settings. Their hospitals decided years ago to pay them by union scale. They don't have to bargain for it - they let the union members at other hospitals do the bargaining, and they reap the benefits. The same thing happens in the steel industry. Stelco goes on strike, fights tooth-and-nail for better wages and benefits, gets them - and a month later, Dofasco has a nearly-identical contract with its non-union workforce, and no strike. This in turn is one of the reasons the automotive industry is not yet dead in Ontario, as it is in much of the U.S. The union shops set the tone, and then the non-union Asian manufacturers follow suit without being asked.
Unions have a huge effect on wages in their sector, even for non-union employees.
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» RE: The role of strong unions is huge.
Posted by: CatDad
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Posted by: xi_people on Mar 9, 2007 4:52 AM
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The elite know what's coming down the pike and are engaged in a huge wealth transfer from the poor, middle class and marginally rich to themselves.
It was a good run while it lasted, but the paradigm of what constitutes a "normal" life in the "developed" world is about to get considerably worse.
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» RE: Its very ignorant... to have faith in "peak oil"
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» RE: Its very ignorant... to have faith in "peak oil"
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Posted by: karyse on Mar 9, 2007 5:01 AM
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People should not forget that they were striking, not for more money, but to make conditions safer for air traffic. They were overworked, and therefore more likely to make errors in judgment. And you are obviously anti-union.
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» RE: yeah, and
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Posted by: citizenjoe on Mar 9, 2007 5:28 AM
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» RE: The meanings of the death of middle class
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» The AWSOME power of the C.P.U.S.A.
Posted by: AdamSelene40
» RE: The AWSOME [sic] power of the C.P.U.S.A. (Does He Mean "Awesome"?)
Posted by: Douglas
» Clearly -- you do --
Posted by: AdamSelene40
» Clearly, you don't! Is proofreading "nitpicking"? Is failure to do it slovenly thinking?
Posted by: Douglas
» The meaning of Middle Class ...
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» RE: The meaning of Middle Class ...
Posted by: albrechtkrausse
» Not To Mention That People Without College Degrees Aren't Expected To Know How To Spell "Awesome"!
Posted by: Douglas
» TWO gratuitous put downs from ONE Elite Athole
Posted by: AdamSelene40
» I Wasn't "Putting You Down," I Was Justifying Your Poor Spelling!
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» RE: Not To Mention That People Without College Degrees Aren't Expected To Know How To Spell "Awesome
Posted by: justAnEgg
» RE: Not To Mention That People Without College Degrees Aren't Expected To Know How To Spell "Awesome
Posted by: Douglas
» RE: Not To Mention That People Without College Degrees Aren't Expected To Know How To Spell "Awesome
Posted by: justAnEgg
» RE: Not To Mention That People Without College Degrees Aren't Expected To Know How To Spell "Awesome
Posted by: moflard
» RE: The meaning of Middle Class ...
Posted by: djnoll
» RE: The meaning of Middle Class ...
Posted by: albrechtkrausse
» RE: The meaning of Middle Class ...
Posted by: allUneedislove
» RE: The meaning of Middle Class ...
Posted by: djnoll
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Posted by: american on Mar 9, 2007 5:37 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Noble subject poorly written.
Posted by: sayswho
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Posted by: bakho on Mar 9, 2007 5:48 AM
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Posted by: wawa on Mar 9, 2007 6:01 AM
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ONE car,
ONE bread winner and
kids were free to roam the neighborhood from sun up to sun down:
without cell phones and scheduled activities.
What happened?
The American people bought into the fanatasy of you can have it all:
a home in suburbia, vacations, HUMMERS to go grocery shopping! etc etc etc-
Families buy homes they cannot afford, work umpteen hours to pay the minimum on their credit cards, give their kids over to institutions or strangers to raise, and have no time for sex, fun or THINKING!
"We live in the midst of a suicidal economy, motivated by love of money. We have reached a dead end. What we need to turn it around are hearts in love with life. How do we do it?
We first must move from domination to partnership, and we begin by educating our young in awe and wonder, not how to take tests.
"Awe leads to reverence, which leads to gratitude, which will reinvent our species. This is the task of our generation: to regain awe.
"The three Rs need to be balanced by the ten Cs: contemplation, creativity, chaos, compassion, courage, critical consciousness, community, celebration, ceremony, and character.
“In community, people remain united, despite everything that divides them. In capitalist society, people are isolated, separated, despite everything that should hold them together.
"We are in the midst of an epic struggle between community and capitalistic society. We need a new narrative.
"It is the economy of materialism; it is the virus of affluenza that has weakened family life.”-excerpted KEEP HOPE ALIVE
http://www.wearewideawake.org/
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» We need to teach logical thinking again
Posted by: kathat
» We need to teach CRITICAL thinking, not just logical
Posted by: djnoll
» RE: We need to teach CRITICAL thinking, not just logical
Posted by: kathat
» RE: We need to teach CRITICAL thinking, not just logical
Posted by: djnoll
» RE: We need to teach logical thinking again
Posted by: Edward George
» IS IT JUST POSSIBLE THAT IF WE JUST ALLOWED THINKING
Posted by: mdruss42
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Posted by: paschn on Mar 9, 2007 6:08 AM
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Look back even one life span and you can see how the Republicans have raped the working class and STILL they have a large following of the very idiots who suffer the consequences of their rapaciousness. You allow them to privatize everything they can 'cuz they say they don't like big government. What they don't like are regulations that prevent them from getting their pudgy greasy fingers at tax-payer dollars.
These dogs aren't wise business men/women, in this cess-pool the only business savvy you need is the ability to write a check to the whores that "govern", (insert rape and pillage), us.
The solution, the ONLY solution I see is nationalizing both energy and communications but I continue to notice a glaring absence of talk about it.
I often use "sheeple" as a metaphor for the U.S. common folk but hell, we're WORSE than sheep. Even a damn sheep will butt it's agressors and voice objective noises which are slightly different from it's common work-a-day bleating. We not only remain mostly silent, we actually assume the position with an air of anticipation.
A nation of sheep, led by a cartel of whores, controlled by big business/Israel. Welcome,... to the REAL Evil Empire.
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» RE: Hi Drones!
Posted by: cottontail
» RE: Hi Drones!
Posted by: CatDad
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Posted by: kelt65 on Mar 9, 2007 6:28 AM
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Posted by: daw13 on Mar 9, 2007 6:50 AM
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These would seem to be powerful political forces driving current economics, but Krugman seems reluctant for some reason to present this perspective. The conspiracy to use government, rather than depend upon market forces, to control the world, and U.S. citizenry, is no more hidden than Samuel Huntington's The Clash of Civilizations, virtually a textbook for neo-libs and neocons alike.
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» RE: Kruglman is timid ---- and we're in for a rough ride
Posted by: amacd
» RE: Kruglman is timid ---- and we're in for a rough ride
Posted by: daw13
» WHO IS TO CONFESS AT THE COMING TRUTH AND RECONCILIATION HEARINGS
Posted by: mdruss42
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Posted by: VZEQICVA on Mar 9, 2007 6:57 AM
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Posted by: StuartH on Mar 9, 2007 7:10 AM
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making good attempts to sort out spaghetti bowl of
economic problems out.
The system seems to be heading towards TILT.
I recently went to an emergency room, thinking that
it was prudent, and that if it got expensive, it would
be in the range of a few hundred dollars.
This is in a rural area of Arizona where the hospital
is used to referring patients to other regional
facilities by air ambulance. After the billing went
through its cycle, the air ambulance cost turned
out to be about $28,500. The hospital cost was
in the neighborhood of $11,000 - for two days.
The insurance company involved refused to help
very much. The bill stands at about $35,000.
Several questions exist. How come medical care
billing can encompass such numbers? These
seem more in line with large scale corporate
finance than with any individual level economics.
If the rich are getting richer it apparently is
because they have figured out how to exploit
middle class and working class consumers
who won't fight exploitation. Honest working
people will mortgage themselves and pay off
debts rather than argue with the legitimacy of
such ripoffs.
That is probably what is keeping the economy
and the political system going the way it is.
What happens when people finally figure out
that this is really scam economics?
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» RE: TILT; And Arizona
Posted by: bob t
» RE: TILT; And Arizona
Posted by: djnoll
» RE: TILT
Posted by: VZEQICVA
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Posted by: ReallyBearish on Mar 9, 2007 7:20 AM
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Krugman doesn't need to look at any mutli-causal model for income inequity. The ball started rolling big time when Nixon defaulted and closed the gold window. Money supply expanded to pay for his foreign adventures along with inflation.
We're now in the middle of a bubble busting in the financial markets that should destroy whatever wealth the middle class had left. The enslavement follows the "inflation first, deflation next" model.
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Posted by: Menthol on Mar 9, 2007 7:26 AM
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» RE: Why the Middle Class is Disappearing
Posted by: shanaza
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Posted by: zipp28 on Mar 9, 2007 8:27 AM
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I would think that a revolution would come about if we the 80% of the population simply drive at slower than the speed limit. That is instead of 70mph or even 80 that we drop down to 50 or so and thusly save that wasted fuel and not let those at the top get so much money. Cut out the TV=Pharmacalogical connection aspect to our consciousness and for sure cut out all hypocritical acts everywhere. Stop reading the daily tree, ie paper for it is the words of those at the top. Then make a bigger stink about the criminals who are running the DC charade. Lastly expose over-all the fuitilities of wagging war and make that writ large into the comprehensions pertaining life regeneration and the human conditions.
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Posted by: Arvy on Mar 9, 2007 8:29 AM
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If you'll indulge a view from across the Atlantic:
I think he succeeded in this - other rulers have succeeded in other countries - because he told a good story. He sold the American people a myth about themselves, whether it's about being the greatest nation on earth, or the paragons of democracy or the defenders of truth and justice. Whatever… it sounds good and the people bought it.
I'm NOT comparing him to Hitler but the same thing happened to the Germans under Nazi rule. They were sold similar stories of Aryan exceptionalism which made it easier to control (or herd) them.
And his kind will continue to do so because they know that basically their people are sheep with no ability or desire to think for themselves. Until people decide to educate themselves and stop salivating everytime the bell is rung then it will just continue.
Kudos to those that are extricating themselves from this situation, it's like giving up drugs!
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» RE: Myths
Posted by: djnoll
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Posted by: Iconoclast421 on Mar 9, 2007 8:37 AM
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(Go vote for the gall-dang conservative who cares even less about jobs! heh)
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Posted by: citation on Mar 9, 2007 8:42 AM
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» Re: workforce does not want unions...
Posted by: SteveB
» RE: e: workforce does not want unions...
Posted by: dangerouslysane
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Posted by: SteveB on Mar 9, 2007 8:42 AM
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"restoring progressivity of the tax system, and using the revenue to improve social insurance and, above all, health care" are "still very hard to do politically."
Considering that opinion polls show widespread support for more progressive taxes and national health care, why are these "very hard" to do?
Unlike some of the cynics commenting here, I don't blame the American people (or "sheeple" as one commenter put it). They want the same things most of us want - better healtcare, a fair tax code, a secure government-guaranteed retirement. The problem is that our political system dosn't respond to the popular will.
As long as you continue to blame the public, instead of our non-democratic system, you're never going to get anywhere.
Yes, you can enahance your self-esteem by thinking you're superior to the "average" American, but this attitude is absolutely toxic to any real organizing, and it's the attitude our ruling class wants you to take.
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» There is no system holding us down, it is the illusion and reification of one that does..
Posted by: brad
» We don't disagree...much
Posted by: SteveB
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Posted by: olhsson on Mar 9, 2007 8:57 AM
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The two great engines of the middle class had been the Homestead Act and the GI bill after WWII. Both made landowners out of folks who didn't enjoy the fruits of inherited wealth and the latter sent working class kids to college for the first time. In addition, Roosevelt's Social Security (just ponder those two words within the context of a brewing socialist revolution) had lifted the burden of supporting one's parents from the working class which turned them into home-owning consumers having plenty of "disposable" income and credit.
The most short-sighted aspect of neo-fascism is failure to recognize the fact that as you tear apart the middle class, you destroy consumerism and ultimately your own long-term source of income. But nobody said these guys are smart. Many are also in denial of the fact that their own prosperity is more the product of "government hand-outs" to their families and employers than of any real skills or work accomplished.
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» RE: Landmarks
Posted by: kathat
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Posted by: futurefarm on Mar 9, 2007 9:11 AM
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How can he talk about the middle class and "forget" to mention the Federal Reserve. Is he really that uninformed or is there another reason he left it out.
Go directly to the truth.
Find anything by G. Edward Griffin.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G._Edward_Griffin Scroll to the bottom of the page. Visit the links especially THIS ONE.
http://www.futuresunltd.com/media/creature.mp3
It seems, some of his videos are disappearing from Google video so you may have to look for them. "Capitalist Conspiracy" is a good one. If you can still find it.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?
docid=-5137330196032136210
Paste the url below together
also try
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=
3996130931822078621&q=g+edward+griffin
It will take you to "Moles in High Places", and the second is "The Open Gates of Troy", both written and narrated by G. Edward Griffin.
The point is Hegelian pressure is being applied to us by the Globalist Banksters. They are squeezing the life out of us. They use well reported (thank you rear mongering corporate media) social disruption (community instability, drug war, pollution, poor health--aspartame etc.) to push from the bottom and economic disruption (trade agreements, inflation, taxation, fraud, crooked judges, state mandates, war) to push from the top. All of these, they themselves organize and fund using our income tax payments. (Thanks to the 14th amendment and the Federal Reserve Act)
This is the long and short of it: No Krugman necessary.
Download these videos and distribute them while you can.
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Posted by: DaBear on Mar 9, 2007 9:26 AM
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We don't need more sheeple, we need human beings and a participatory economy where the value emphasis is on the job being done and done well rather than which white male makes the most and gets to buy the affordable McMansion from the mid-$900,000's. When the person sweeping the floor is the same person that announces the co-op's major decisions and is paid the same as the person who does the marketing, then I'll be enthusiastic about joining the herd. But this isn't going to happen in 'Merkuh, where the lurch towards right-wing fascism and Xtian nationalism is far more inevitable (and yeah, it can just as easily happen under a Dim hat as a Republikaaner hat).
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» So in your "co-op" society...
Posted by: SteveB
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Posted by: marybess on Mar 9, 2007 9:51 AM
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The following programs were also instrumental in the creation of the middle class:
*G I Bill which made it possible for working class people to attend college
*federal legislation that made government loans to G I's so they could buy homes
*Social Security which kept a lot of the elderly out of abject poverty
I'm certainly not an expert on these matters. But it is clear that the economic circumstances we are experiencing are not "God given" or "the natural order," as those who benefit from the current situation would have us believe.
We can design our public life to benefit all of our citizens.
One place to start is health care. Why should we allow our health care to be held hostage to the private insurance industry's drive for profits. Since when do we have to give 33% of every dollar spent on health care to private insurers. Medicare is administered by the government at a cost of 3%! Let's get health insurers off the dole. We can't afford them. We can have a universal, single-payer system that covers everyone for the same money that now covers only 60% of the population under the private insurer system.
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» The best post ni this entire discussion.
Posted by: kittynboi
» RE: Unions weren't the only factor
Posted by: american
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Posted by: bob t on Mar 9, 2007 11:17 AM
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Another thing is that after WWII the corporations paid 43% of the cost of government and the people, the little taxpayer paid 57% of that cost. Today here are the numbers; corporations pay 7% of the cost of government while the little taxpayer pays 93% of the cost of government. Also I truly think that though corporations pay so little to support the government they reap .by far, most of the benefits from the government's existence. We the people pay for it, they reap all the benefits of it.
I do agree with Krugman that politics are the problem, specifically Republican politics. If we stoned every Republican politician they would quickly change but only for a short time. They need to be repeatedly stoned. Better yet why don't we just throw the bastards out of office for at least the nex twenty years and maybe we can tilt to the left.
Republicans, southerners and Catholics are the problem.
America is no longer one country, it is two separate countries and will never be the same. Stop religion, both Catholics and white southern evangelical Baptists, both are fundamentalist religions and very dangerous to we americans and to the rest of the world.
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Posted by: Bobsays on Mar 9, 2007 11:31 AM
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The left
- its love of uncontrolled and illegal migration has totally destroyed law and order and undermined the standard of living for the lower middle class. You only have to look at all the cities to see how they have become simulacra of the third world (the sort of third world hell holes you find in Brazil or Nigeria)
- its cultural relativism which has totally destroyed concepts like an honest day's work, or supporting community services no matter what your race or ethnicity (unlike the left which only sees it worthwhile to support your race or ethnic group only)
- drug use (which feeds the gang culture), loose morals (which destroys the family), no patriotism or loyalty to anything which breeds mass apathy
The right
- unfetered greed which has steam rolled communities across the country
- war without end which is bankrupting the country
- supporting illegal immigration which has undermined pretty well everything in the country
- not paying staff a living wage so they can have a home
It would be more helpful if the various political factions came clean on this and worked to return civility and a good standard of living to America's communities, both suburban and inner city.
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» The myth of immigrant crime
Posted by: fanny666
» RE: Who and what is killing the middle class
Posted by: Pistol
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Posted by: fanny666 on Mar 9, 2007 12:01 PM
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Krugman talk on economics
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Posted by: NoPCZone on Mar 9, 2007 12:13 PM
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If you take an unvarnished and unbiased look at the history of this country you see a very different country where repression against the uneducated, the poor, the working classes, the ethnic, people of color, women and just about everyone else has had to fight long and hard to get whatever they ultimately got. You also see people of wealth, power and position willing to sell the country, it's laws, principles, treasure and soldiers out in the interest of advancing their power and wealth- everyone else be damned.
Democracy, equality, equity, justice and social mobility are not the norm in the world and have rarely been the norm in in the US. From the Know-Nothings through the KKK to the Skinheads, people have been organized politically along lines of racial and ethnic fear-mongering. Women and people of color had to fight for their rights just as he LGBT community is today. Japanese-Americans were systemically robbed of property even as they were locked behind fences in remote places during WWII (the 'good' war). Working people have been shot, stabbed, clubbed and worse by goons, National Guard, Police and others for the mere act of trying to organize Labor Unions. The plight of America's native tribes and first peoples is a long and ugly one, subject to systemic discrimination by citizens, groups of citizens, corporate interests, and every level of government from local to Federal.
The current war in Iraq is not the first illegal war for corporate profit- the United Fruit Company had a number of their own fought by the Army & Marines. The Spanish-American War was sold on BS information and was also stirred up for greed and profit. The list is long and ugly.
The Bush Administration and NeoCon movement is nothing new-- it's more of the same old bullsh*t that has masqueraded behind the flag and Bible, while standing for nothing resembling patriotism or grace. It's a reversion to type, like an alcoholic going back to the bar or an addict returning to the crack house.
Knowing this and knowing this to be true, there is only one real question:
What are YOU/WE going to do about it?
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» RE: The Sad Truth
Posted by: TheNamelessCity
» RE: The Sad Truth
Posted by: futurefarm
» I am in my 30s...
Posted by: Bobsays
» Migrant workers.
Posted by: kittynboi
» Arbitrary.
Posted by: kittynboi
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Posted by: NewsPatriot on Mar 9, 2007 1:52 PM
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What you are missing here is that the economic model of the New Deal didn't change when conservative politics did. The turn back in time to the guilded age didn't start until reagan/bush ushered in the economics of Milton Friedman and the Chicago boys who came up with a flim flam scheme called privatization.
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Posted by: Shakti on Mar 9, 2007 2:30 PM
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What I see today is people whose sense of "us" has really shrunk to their immediate, nuclear family. Occasionally, it extends to other relatives or their church community, but not to other Americans. This is why they can turn a blind eye to Katrina etc. "Those people" are suffering and well .... too bad, I gave at the office. What will it take to think in terms of "us"?
My sister makes a good living selling real estate and recently told me that she hired a receptionist who was a single parent with kids, no alimony, no child support. She pays her $10 per hour, no benefits. I asked her why she didn't give her health insurance. (My husband, a small business owner who is still not drawing a salary from his business, gives a handful of his employees a health insurance option.) She hemmed and hawed ... "can't afford it" ... meanwhile, she drives a Jag. I just can't stand this sort of thing. My sister is also a Mormon and right-wing Republican. Somehow, she justifies exploiting this woman. I don't get it. She will continue to vote for the party that helps her feel superior to others in morals and class (the Republicans). I think there is a clue here: right-wing Repubicans believe they are morally superior to others (e.g., pro-life, anti-gay, etc.) and therefore, deserve to have a better life. Republicans appeal to this sense of exclusivity - "Vote for us and you, too, will be better than others. Vote for the Democrats and consort with the riff raff."
My family is actually a good example of the new class structure. We grew up middle class, possibly upper middle class (dad was an executive with a big company) and now my sisters are in one class (affluent) and I am in another (not affluent), despite the fact that I'm the only one in the family with a Ph.D. Academia has certainly not made me rich, so I'm not impressed by arugments that education is the way to get ahead.
My students at the university where I teach tend to exemplify the Social Darwinism that has taken over the country. They are very focused on their GPA's and professional tracks and not at all interested in exploring ethics, morality, philosophy or meaning. They tend to think about public policy in terms of cost, rather than humanism. They are often driven by fear of falling behind in the rat race, hell bent on besting their peers in the competition to get ahead. It can be disheartening.
I do my best to get them to connect with their own humanity, but they don't always get it. How can we get from "survival of the greediest" to "flourishing of the kindest"?
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» RE: greed versus altruism
Posted by: MartianBachelor
» good post
Posted by: WhatNow?
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Posted by: gaiza on Mar 9, 2007 2:54 PM
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I've read many comments and some of the situations mentioned there I have experienced myself and see how it's easy to be angry to the system when seeing in the bills five/six digit numbers and much less in your paycheck.
After having lived here for four years , I've realized that American system makes people not to have time to think. If they had that time, then people would go out on the streets and require democracy in work places, make the Bill of Rights as a Law (as one of the commentators said); take away credit system which makes credit system holders richer, and makes people sink in debts; change the health care and educational system so that they would be affordable to anyone and have highly educated instructors as private medical institutions and private schools, etc..
But American people are too busy to think how to solve the problems and put the road for the better future for their children. They hardly have time to be with kids, share their time watching television, or go to movies, and if that by some chance happens - TV or Movies are full of stupidifying mind commercials. People are surrounded with that commercials and 60-80 hour jobs that make them exhausted and indifferent to anything after it. When they wake up in some free minutes realizing how much they struggle, and instead of living the are existing/surviving - they get angry at the system, upset, ...but helpless to change anything as they are affraid of losing the last what they have.
And those who know that many things are deteriorating in America , who could bring some positive changes, are inert, slow and keep the life they have.
It's you, who have power of voice, who aren't afraid of losing a job or reputation, should help to make these reforms happen in fact , not theoreticaly.
Everybody knows that the words in this situation don't change things, actions are needed.
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» There's more to the dark side of RAY-GUN than most people know about that motherfucker !
Posted by: Jason Jordan
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Posted by: rwa on Mar 9, 2007 3:08 PM
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» Production vs Service.
Posted by: kittynboi
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Posted by: kathat on Mar 9, 2007 3:17 PM
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Posted by: sofla100 on Mar 9, 2007 6:55 PM
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Posted by: Hal on Mar 9, 2007 7:41 PM
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And that would be a cesspit of an American system that pretends to be something it hasn’t been for a hundred years. Namely: a nation set up by the founders as a 1] genuine republican style democracy 2] operated thru valid open market capitalism.
Both assumptions are tragically gullible and lethally amiss. We live under fascist plutocracy beneath a false mask of pretend democracy and mock capitalism where both are killing jokes exported worldwide.
The pillars of fascist plutocracy sold as “democracy” are in order of importance:
1] control of the economy thru illegal private rigging and de facto ownership of the central banking system (“Federal Reserve” Corp)
2] control of the MSM thru direct and indirect extortion ( Operation Mockingbird , faux “leftwing” rigging , interlocking boards, etc)
3] control of “education” and public policy thru old robber baron foundations that effectively brainwash the public thru omission, whitewash and falsification of the historical record. (A nation that does not own its own history is a conquered nation)
Again, oligarch cooking of the economy is enforced thru a “Federal Reserve” Corporation sting that was never federal and has no reserves but a Ponzi trap. In 93 years the “Fed” has raised the average cost of living by almost 10,000%. ($1 in 1913 roughly equal to 1.034¢ in November of 2006).
7 Freedom to Fascism cartel FACTS on the “Federal Reserve” Corp per G.E. Griffin:
1. The Fed is incapable of accomplishing its stated objectives.
2. It is a cartel operating against the public interest.
3. It is the supreme instrument of usury.
4. It generates our most unfair tax through inflation and bailouts.
5. It encourages war.
6. It destabilizes the economy.
7. It discourages private capital formation.
“I have unwittingly ruined my country… we have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated governments in the world. A government by the opinion and duress of a small group of dominant men.”
PRESIDENT WOODROW WILSON (on oligarch tyranny, three years after signing a “Federal Reserve Act” and its privately owned credit monopoly into law. Quote 1916)
“Some people think the Federal Reserve Banks are U.S. government institutions. They are not…The sack of the United States by the Fed is the greatest crime in history. The truth is the Fed has usurped the government. It controls everything here and it controls all our foreign relations. It makes and breaks governments at will.”
CONGRESSMAN LOUIS T. MCFADDEN (Chairman, House Banking & Currency Committee, charging a private “Federal Reserve” Corporation with crimes of conspiracy, fraud & treason, June 1932)
“If you want to be the slaves of [private cartel] banks and pay the cost of your own slavery, then let the banks create money…”
SIR JOSIAH STAMP (Governor of the privately owned Bank of England and the 2nd richest individual in Britain. A man in service to the Rothschilds.1920)
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» RE: KOOL-AID KRUGMAN @ the CON STATE
Posted by: yellow
» RE: KOOL-AID KRUGMAN @ the CON STATE
Posted by: Hal
» RE: KOOL-AID KRUGMAN @ the CON STATE
Posted by: yellow
» RE: KOOL-AID KRUGMAN @ the CON STATE
Posted by: Hal
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Posted by: AdamG on Mar 9, 2007 9:47 PM
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Once upon a time there was no inflation, and no debt. There wa only production. When someone produced something, they demanded a price, and a fair one at that. We shall call that parity.
People were so good at producing due to an abundance of resources that some people hoarded goods. Once they hoarded enough goods, they figured that they didn't have to work anymore, they could lend their hoarded goods and charge interest. And hence debt was born.
Now, wealth wasn't measured by how much you produced but by how obligated people were to produce for you. No longer were you obligated to even room and board your slaves. All you had to do was to lend people enough so that they would be at your mercy for their whole lives, and then some! Just give someone eough of the proverbial rope to hang themselves.
OK, this is where you shoud gather real close and listen real good so that this faerytayle can have a good ending.
1. Buy lots of guns and ammos and learn to go for head shots because the following measures are going to REALLY piss some people off and Blackwater Boys don't fuck around.
2. Stop borrowing public and private. No more bonds. When you find yourself in a hole, stop digging.
3. Stop consuming so much.
4. Destroy the Fed and fractional banking. Why are we acknowledging making something out of nothing? It's hocus pocus.
5. Reinstate tariffs (or import quotas per WTO rules)
6. Learn to live within your natural environs and do something that is actually useful and meaningful for yourself and others
7. Plant some trees- there isn't such a thing as too many trees
8. Learn to rely on those that are close enough to lynch. If they aren't accessible, they aren't accountable.
9. Learn and practice population control AT ALL COSTS. There really are too many talking monkeys.
10. If you're working, and succeeding, at the first 9, sit back and throw a few back or smoke a phat one, you've earned it.
And THEN, we can all live happily ever after.
Or until the next Ice Age, whichever come first.
THE END
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Posted by: Blade on Mar 10, 2007 4:21 AM
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You know what else helped? THE RISE OF WORLD WIDE CONCSIOUSNESS RAISING! IN THE FORM OF SOCIALISM!
Wobblies! Before that, children were working twelve hours a day!
How do you think we got more money and the 8 hour day from the fat cats? Labor led the way to wrest it away from the bourgousie, and the upper class, and the middle class ended up being created. Pre-NewDeal, this happened.
Yes, Wilson gave the fat cats the upper hand with the Fed Reserve, but the lower classes were actually helped by being whipped by the depression, so that Roosevelt, heavily influenced by the Socialist Movement and it's attendant centralized philosophy, took heed and helped.
Mostly out of fear and necessity, fat cat himself, and not wanting the tradition of fat cat-ism to go down the drain as it had in Russia, quite recently.
By 1936 Hitler and Mussolini were coming into power, and Roosevelt also knew he'd need the lower classes of USA back on their feet because trouble was coming.
Trouble is, Roosevelt had to make the presidency into an Emperor-ship to do it. Many factors went into that development, and WWII was one of them.
Then, all those men came back from WWII, and there was a lot of working women in the market place, and they had a lot of power.
Thus something happened that is why the Air-Controllers were screwed years later, and "striking against the law".
The fat-cats got control of Congress and Senate and outlawed union power. TAFT-HARTLEY ACT.
Truman vetoed it, called it a slave labor law, but to no avail.
If not for that, when the air controllers had threatened to strike, their bosses would have had to come to the table.
But they knew the controllers had no real power, and they, the bosses, had the muscle with the FEDS behind them. Like Hitler's Black shirts.... or Musslolini's Brown shirts...
THEIR Strike was illegal because of a unfair law, which some day will be over turned, a fat-cat law called the TAFT-HARTLEY ACT.
If not for that law, unions would not have to resort to trickery, and resort to seniority systems, etc. The TAFT-HARTLEY corrupts the union, too. Study the dynamics of it, if you have enough time, or life experience.
TAFT-HARTLEY handed too much power to owners, which corrupts, and too little power to workers, which also corrupts.
You say LABOR should not have power for work stoppage, BULLHOCKEY.
My labor is PROPERTY!!! You cannot tell me to work, or not. I say if I work or not. Same for them, not matter what their job is. If a worker is smart enough to get a power job, treat him right, and he won't have to strike.
What could have stopped the nation's air traffic, is that the owners would not come to the table in ernest, because they had an unfair law backing them up, and the muscle, guns of police, to back up their bullshit.
Women thought they would get the right to vote after the Civil WAR, their movement had been going strong, but no, political trade off, and they didn't get vote for another, what, seventy years?! Three or four generations!
Same here, workers got screwed years ago with Taft-Hartley and some day it will get straightened out, we will get our right to collectively bargain, and control our own property, labor, again.
Fat cats, you own land, buildings, paper money and deeds. I own what I do with my body. My labor is my PROPERTY!
"without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation."-Amendment V
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Posted by: martyweiss on Mar 10, 2007 7:31 AM
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The same dynamic holds with wealth, which tends to concentrate until one corporation has it all.
Famously, when this country was still a province of European wealth, corporations sent murderous bounty hunters to enforce it's contracts until we established a government of the people to regulate corporate wealth in the form of feudal power: Kings, nobles, etc. Still, the majority of cattle ranches were owned by European money.
When the corporation was given, by Supreme Court fief, the protections of individual rights, corporations again began to monopolize and dominate affairs. Simply the effect of wealth is enough to control the acquisition of wealth.
T.R. tried to bust the trusts, but the wealthy backers of the GOP evicted T.R. from his position.
So we have a continual see-sawing of corporate control of people and wealth. Eventually, greed gets so bad it loses public support and the wealthy have to rename themselves as populists, but in name only.
Since WWII, corporate wealth has dominated our gov't. Go back to the 1920's, when Standard Oil protected it's monopoly on fuel by the Prohibition of Alcohol, to the thirties, when hemp was prohibited-- both alcohol and hemp oil are substitute fuels.
By busting unions and equating them with Communism, corporations have managed to get in control of wealth and people again. Yet, once again, the bottom line is short-sighted, limiting innovation and becoming increasingly calcified to the point of dysfunctionality and the loss of common sense.
Now we have embarked on a "war" that will keep the military-industrial complex in control for generations. Any opposition is unpatriotic.
Yet this is no war. It is simply an illegal invasion, just like Saddam's "naked aggression, which will not stand"-- Bush I.
Wealth has once again become untenable and dysfunctional in the management of government. Although Crisis, Conflict, and Catastrophe benefit corporate wealth and the Defense and Oil industries, they don't benefit the people themselves, who are the ultimate creators of wealth.
People, not banks, give money value. People, not corporations, are the ultimate criterion of prosperity. Yet wealth will always, unregulated, tend to overpower people. Thus governments and unions are created to protect the people from the enslavement of wealth by legal regulation.
Unregulated capitalism creates slaves, just like unregulated fishing empties the oceans.
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Posted by: yellow on Mar 10, 2007 9:50 AM
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Core living costs like health care, housing, food, energy, and education are rising at twice or more the rate of inflation. Thus we have a "profits push" inflation or in more common language, the effects of corporate greed. CEO salaries are also leaping ahead the inflation rate for the past twenty years which is one reason for the concentration of wealth and disappearance of the middle class. Costs effect the top and bottom income tiers in US society differently since the bottom 80% of society has had no real income increase over the past two decades while the bottom half has experienced a real decline. Only the top 1% has recieved a real increase of about 10% or more. Economists have correlated high income concentrations with slowed overall GDP growth rates. The period of highest income and GDP growth in US history coincides with the period of the greatest income equality when the upper 1% had far less than the nearly 25% of the national income it has today. Todays average annual GDP growth rates are less than half those of the peak of the early 1960s when union density was nearly 35%.
To blame trade unions and "high wages" on the countries downfall is ludicrous. Average wages never caused inflation in the US and spurred the demand and productivity that created the US middle class and spurt of economic growth that put the US in the forefront of the World Economy four decades ago. Overall wage deceleration in the late 1970s and early 1980s as well as the fact that US average industrial wage costs as a proportion of total overhead costs in industry being on par with or lower than many western industrial countries, only makes union a convienient scapegoat for the right in terms of US industrial decline. Failure to retool US industry, poor product design, short sighted quarter to quarter mentality of management, and a profound overproduction in global stocks of consumer durables in the early 1970s leading to a world recession exacerbated by oil price shocks and currency devaluation led to US overall economic woes. The working class was only trying to keep up in the 1960s and 70s and was not the cause of these structural problems.
Global retrenchment of industrial production and the restructuring of the US economy has led to a two tier US economy reducing the middle class. We now have a more stratified society of rich and poor with slower economic growth rates and a less solid basis to the skewed US economy. Our aging population has left health care as the single largest growth industry, about 20% of US GDP currently, and services, finance and retail making up most of the rest. The vast majority of the fewer and fewer net jobs pay well below the poverty line for a family of four and many pay only just above the poverty line for a single individual. Trade Unions, which organize less that 10% of the US private work force negotiate wages levels that are barely above the poverty line for thier members. Globalization have been tough on all of us except for the nearly 1000 new billionaires that have been created world wide by this situation over the past decade or so. And income distribution continues to worsen in the US and world wide. The time has come for redistribution on all national levels. Unions and wages are the best start in reversing the upward income shift that we have experienced since the Reagan era.
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» RE: My two cents...
Posted by: Blade
» RE: My two cents...
Posted by: yellow
» The COLOR of DENIAL (@ the fiat money bubble)...
Posted by: Hal
» RE: The COLOR of DENIAL (@ the fiat money bubble)...
Posted by: yellow
» RE: The COLOR of DENIAL (@ the fiat money bubble)...
Posted by: Hal
» RE: The COLOR of DENIAL (@ the fiat money bubble)...
Posted by: yellow
» RE: The COLOR of DENIAL (@ the fiat money bubble)...
Posted by: Hal
» RE: The COLOR of DENIAL (@ the fiat money bubble)...
Posted by: yellow
» RE: The COLOR of DENIAL (@ the fiat money bubble)...
Posted by: Hal
» RE: The COLOR of DENIAL (@ the fiat money bubble)...
Posted by: yellow
» RE: The COLOR of DENIAL (@ the fiat money bubble)...
Posted by: Hal
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Posted by: chseitz on Mar 10, 2007 10:19 AM
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One of the problems with protecting the middle class from erosion is the growing size of corporations as they gobble up other companies resulting in a lack of competition and the growing specter of monopoly. This condition causes higher prices, less customer service, poor quality, lower wages, higher unemployment, and a smaller workforce. It also produces a higher concentration of corporate profits and CEO entitlements. This is a situation not intended by the concept of the American Free Enterprise System and the American Dream. As predicted by Frederick Hayek, we are traveling down the Rad to Serfdom. But commerce and industry are not alone to blame for this; There is a growing state of complicity with an ever growing and authoritarian government.
While all this is going on, there is a new political game in town where Centrists are gaining ground amassing a grass roots consensus of political power consolidating divergent groups to form a voting bloc to counter the minority money power: votes vs. money. Al the while the Democrats are still playing the old game of liberal and progressive left against the conservative right. Once the middle class regains its political power it will vote in a Congress that will legislate a reorganization of government and a new democratic corporate structure and give corporations the right to issue money for their own operations. This expedient is based on a new understandings of the workings of the of our economic system. It has been discovered that industry has its own economic system and should have its own money. Once the industrial system is allowed to operate in its own right and with its own institutions and not be subject to the rules and regulations of the present and classical Mercantile system all our economic problems will be solved and then the middle class will be protected from further erosion. I explain all this in my just self-published book REVENGE AT HIGH TOR. Available on Amazon.com.
It s a dramatic novel of intrigue that fights political corruption and shows how the middle class can defend itself against the mega corporate military industrial complex and the concentration of money powers who want to destroy it. It shows a new kind of industrial and information age corporate structure and political game plan for the coming generation. Happy reading.
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Posted by: Darrell Kern on Mar 10, 2007 11:45 AM
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Posted by: halg on Mar 10, 2007 1:22 PM
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However, I did find Tom Degan's blogspot, thanks to a thoughtful counter-blogger. Now, there's a guy who can write. In fact, maybe Alternet should post him instead of this lazy excuse. His posts are short enough that it doesn't take all afternoon to read them, and he writes with flair and interest in his reader. No comma splices, no run-on sentences. Just good writing that is a joy to read (even if I only agree with him on about 98% of what he says).
Pasta.
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» RE: How much does it cost to proofread your own work?
Posted by: Blade
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Posted by: Ledhed on Mar 11, 2007 5:41 PM
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Posted by: rkm on Mar 11, 2007 10:44 PM
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"By the time World War II was over, we had become the
middle-class society that the baby boomers in this audience
grew up in. We had become a much more equal society. That
high degree of equality began to go away -- depending on
exactly which numbers you look at -- during the late 70's,
maybe a little earlier than that. And at this point we're
basically back to pre-tax and transfer to the levels of
inequality that we had in 1929."
As previous commenters have said, we do not live in a democracy. The nation is controlled by the rich. They made a conscious decision after WW II to create a more equitable society so as to have public support for their immense postwar imperialist project in the third world. They knew there would be enough profits to support a prosperous middle class.
In the 70s the postwar growth bubble was slowing down, and the ruling elite made a conscious decision to abandon the middle class, and to begin cannabilizing the national economy. The substitution of 'market forcces' for national planning was a conscious choice, the means of cannibilization.
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Posted by: Cerberus on Mar 13, 2007 9:21 AM
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* Higher taxes, especially marginal taxes on high income earners
* Stronger Unions
* More income distribution
This has been tried with disastrous results in Sweden 30 years ago.
In the early 70's Sweden was one of the worlds wealthiest countries it had the best welfare system in the world, one of the worlds most hard working people. Today some 30 years later Sweden is no 17 in world economy, has a 20 % of its population living on grants and some 10 % on sick leave, nobody wants to work. The welfare system is the most inefficient of all OECD countries, most tax dollar per capita is wasted only 6 outof 10 dollars actually go where they are supposed to go. It has created a system of welfare poor some 10 % of the Swedish population living on welfare, social security at an extremely low level.
How did this come about. Mr Krugmans medicine did it!
1. The taxes were overnite raised by 50 %
2. High marginal taxes, 95 % and in some cases 105%
3. A strengthening of the trade union
4. The public sector was expanded 3 times, Sweden has a public sector twice the size of OECD countries.
Mr Krugmans remedy is a sure way of making the American people poorer and making the midle class extinct as it is in Sweden
Read the article from on of the few liberal magazines in Sweden, Axess and please do not do the same mistake as Sweden. Go your own way.
"The cost of equality"
http://www.axess.se/english/2003/04/equality.php
An impoverished middle class.
To create equality, the Swedish economy has been dominated by high-rate taxation. It is counter-productive system. Only the wealthy can maintain a high living standard. There are few incentives, either for individuals or emerging businesses. It has become almost impossible to make a financial climb in Sweden.
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» Exposing your biased, hyper-capitalist, Americentric thinking
Posted by: Aufklaerung_Baboon
» RE: xposing your biased, hyper-marxist thinking
Posted by: Cerberus
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Posted by: electorials on Mar 13, 2007 8:18 PM
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Check out our brand new blogs and our great and organized political message boards.
Bryan
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Posted by: Aufklaerung_Baboon on Mar 15, 2007 10:46 AM
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» RE: Please set aside bourgeois politics for a moment and read this...
Posted by: yellow
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Posted by: xtiml on Mar 19, 2007 4:54 AM
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» RE: xtiml
Posted by: yellow
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Posted by: Sojourner on Mar 9, 2007 1:01 AM
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When the union went out on strike during Reagan's first term, Reagan broke the union. I do not have any details but even that wasn't enough to convince workers that unions were necessary and that GOP candidates believed just the opposite. Reagan wasn't a revolution; he was a disease.
Again, I cannot cite facts and figures; rather only my sense of the gist of news items. But while CEO salaries may be the most obvious and outrageous exploitation of corporate board powers, corporate board members are lining their pockets as well.
It is way past time to revoke the protections that corporations receive as "legal persons." No, they are not entitled to buy political candidates. They are not entitled to the protections of the Bill of Rights. How much more damage must they do before such privileges are reined in?
Labor would be affected similarly. One unmentioned factor is that fewer union members means that fewer workers are being educated about their political self-interest. Yes, workers need unions to tell them how to vote. Since "you can lead a horse to water..." being told how is not coercive but educational. The education function of unions makes for a stronger democracy.
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» RE: Our democracy needs help.
Posted by: EagleMB
» RE: Our democracy needs help.
Posted by: Annarisse
» RE: Our democracy needs help.
Posted by: EagleMB
» RE: Our democracy needs help.
Posted by: kabac55
» RE: Our democracy needs help.
Posted by: EagleMB
» Supporting evidence
Posted by: Lector
» RE: Supporting evidence
Posted by: EagleMB
» RE: Supporting evidence
Posted by: peacefullaim
» RE: Supporting evidence
Posted by: EagleMB
» RE: Our democracy needs help, and you need an education.
Posted by: Blade
» RE: Our democracy needs help, and you need an education.
Posted by: EagleMB
» Why Reagan fired the air traffic controllers
Posted by: ISlamIslam
» And in the mean time, Reagan had no problem with the CIA ARMING OSAMA BIN LADEN against America.
Posted by: Jason Jordan
» And in the mean time...
Posted by: ISlamIslam
» IslamIslam = EagleMB
Posted by: Jason Jordan
» RE: IslamIslam = EagleMB
Posted by: ISlamIslam
» RE: Our democracy needs help.
Posted by: Poe
» Yeah, and the African American voters in Chicago loved Richard Daley...
Posted by: Sojourner
» THIS ARTICLE IS A **COMPLETE** JOKE!!!! UNBELIEVABLE!!!
Posted by: anonimus1
» RE: THIS ARTICLE IS A **COMPLETE** JOKE!!!! UNBELIEVABLE!!!
Posted by: Trazom
» RE: THIS ARTICLE IS A **COMPLETE** JOKE!!!! UNBELIEVABLE!!!
Posted by: JMorse
» RE: THIS ARTICLE IS A **COMPLETE** JOKE!!!! UNBELIEVABLE!!!
Posted by: futurefarm
» RE: THIS ARTICLE IS A **COMPLETE** JOKE!!!! UNBELIEVABLE!!!
Posted by: dennidus1680
» RE: THIS ARTICLE IS A **COMPLETE** JOKE!!!! UNBELIEVABLE!!!
Posted by: EagleMB
» RE: THIS ARTICLE IS A **COMPLETE** JOKE!!!! UNBELIEVABLE!!!
Posted by: peacefullaim
» RE: THIS ARTICLE IS A **COMPLETE** JOKE!!!! UNBELIEVABLE!!!
Posted by: EagleMB
» RE: THIS ARTICLE IS A **COMPLETE** JOKE!!!! UNBELIEVABLE!!!
Posted by: peacefullaim
» RE: THIS ARTICLE IS A **COMPLETE** JOKE!!!! UNBELIEVABLE!!!
Posted by: LMNOP
» RE: Our democracy needs help.
Posted by: dennidus1680
» RE: Our democracy needs help.
Posted by: imors
» "...a bad actor" who always played the good guy. Americans love beauty contests.
Posted by: Sojourner
» RE: Our democracy needs help.
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» "...the union was trying to bring the country to it's knees."? Balderdash.
Posted by: Sojourner
» RE: "...the union was trying to bring the country to it's knees."? Balderdash.
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» "Unions abuse...more so than corporations do..." Horse pucky. Look at who wins.
Posted by: Sojourner
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Posted by: Tom Degan on Mar 9, 2007 1:37 AM
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And yet poll after poll puts Reagan at the top of the people's list of the greatest presidents in history (just below Washington and Lincoln). What does that say about the intelligence of the American people - or, should I say, their jaw-dropping stupidity? There is a very good reason (or very bad reason - depending on your politics) why, upon taking the oath of office in 2001, that the First Fool signed an executive order that sealed the Gipper's papers indefinately: they don't want posterity to know the truth about the Reagan presidency.
The Republican party has moved so far to the right in the last quarter of a century that it's in serious danger of falling off the face of the earth. Think about if for a minute: The three top contenders for the GOP nomination next year (Romney, Giuliani and McCain) although traditional conservatives in the strictest sense of the word, are viewed by the assholes who control the so-called "party of Lincoln" as hard core lefties. I mean just how ridiculous is that?? Barry Goldwater, the man who literally founded the modern conservative movement would not be able to get their nomination today. He would be dismissed as a "maverick liberal". Indeed, at the end of his life he was working on a book with John Dean about the extremist shift the Republicans had taken in recent years. Dean completed the book last year. Called "Conservatives Without Conscience", it is a must-read any way you slice it.
Pray for peace.
Tom Degan
Goshen, NY
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» It was RAY-GUN whose buddies installed Saddham Hussein and ARMED Osama Bin Laden with the CIA's help
Posted by: Jason Jordan
» RE: It was RAY-GUN whose buddies installed Saddham Hussein and ARMED Osama Bin Laden with the CIA's help
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» Typical rightwing bullshit. Blame Carter but still defend RAY-GUN for ARMING, TRAINING, and FUNDING
Posted by: Jason Jordan
» RE: Typical rightwing bullshit. Blame Carter but still defend RAY-GUN for ARMING, TRAINING, and FUNDING
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» And more PROOF that Hussein and Osama were knowingly trained, funded, armed strengthened by RAY-GUN.
Posted by: Jason Jordan
» You suspect but have no real evidence
Posted by: Lector
» RE: Oh, so it wasn't Reagan?
Posted by: dangerouslysane
» Naw, it was Bush Sr who hired Rumsfeld... Remember, Bush, Rumsfeld, cheney and others worked togethe
Posted by: Prophit
» There's plenty of blame to go around.
Posted by: brad
» Hey Chooch, learn some economics
Posted by: ReallyBearish
» Hey Chooch(?), learn to read.
Posted by: brad
» Your right about Voelker, but aren't you guys getting the picture yet???? These Presidents..
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: CRAPPY DAYS ARE HERE AGAIN
Posted by: Poe
» RE: CRAPPY DAYS ARE HERE AGAIN
Posted by: Poe
» RE: CRAPPY DAYS ARE HERE AGAIN
Posted by: Poe
» FAWLTY TOWERS
Posted by: Tom Degan
» CRAPPY (Right Wing Troller Posts) ARE HERE AGAIN
Posted by: CatDad
» RE: CRAPPY DAYS ARE HERE AGAIN
Posted by: freedom_rings
» AMERICA'S BIGGEST PROBLEM: the average American
Posted by: LMNOP
» damn ssegallmd,
Posted by: WhatNow?
» I'm afraid I agree...
Posted by: mjabele
» RISK-BENEFIT ANALYSIS OF CONTINUED LIFE IN AMERICA - Pt I
Posted by: LMNOP
» RISK-BENEFIT ANALYSIS OF CONTINUED LIFE IN AMERICA - Pt II
Posted by: LMNOP
» RE: CRAPPY DAYS ARE HERE AGAIN
Posted by: goldennugget
» Give 'em hell Tom! Reagan sucks!
Posted by: WhatNow?
» RE: CRAPPY DAYS ARE HERE AGAIN
Posted by: Gerald
» RE: CRAPPY DAYS ARE HERE AGAIN
Posted by: Redhead5050
» RE: CRAPPY DAYS ARE HERE AGAIN
Posted by: dennidus1680
» Tom---you hit the nail on the head!
Posted by: zooeyhall
» RE: CRAPPY DAYS ARE HERE AGAIN
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» The only reason RAY-GUN won was BLIND FLUKE from people's INFATUATION.
Posted by: Jason Jordan
» RE: The only reason RAY-GUN won was BLIND FLUKE from people's INFATUATION.
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RAY-GUN's FUCKED UP ideology is hitting the ceiling and it won't be long before
Posted by: Jason Jordan
» BUZZ OFF, FREAK
Posted by: LMNOP
» RE: BUZZ OFF, FREAK
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» FUCKED UP Conservasaurus is hardly a real conservative or he wouldn't be licking RAY-GUN's ASS !
Posted by: Jason Jordan
» TO AN UNWELCOME PIECE OF CONSERVATIVE TRASH:
Posted by: LMNOP
» You're great.
Posted by: WhatNow?
» Thanks
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» ssegallmd lost his mind????
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: ssegallmd lost his mind????
Posted by: LMNOP
» Tom its a good argument for not letting the President run the Country. It wasn't Reagan who...
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» To a most welcome piece of progressive intellect. . .
Posted by: peacefullaim
» Thanks
Posted by: LMNOP
» RE: Tom its a good argument for not letting the President run the Country. It wasn't Reagan who...
Posted by: impeachbushandcheneynow
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Posted by: Tom Degan on Mar 9, 2007 1:42 AM
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Our Long National Nightmare
Tom Degan
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» Some comments!
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» Conservasaurus
Posted by: Tom Degan
» Is that a proper response?
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» strange daze indeed
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» POT TO KETTLE: COME IN PLEASE!
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Posted by: Temporary on Mar 9, 2007 3:36 AM
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Posted by: brad on Mar 9, 2007 4:41 AM
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Of course politics leads economics, actually they are the same thing even though economists like to treat economics as an independent phenomena, it isn't. It is this semblance of separation and the degree to public knowledge of it that contributes to wether it is a highly wealth stratified country or not.
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Posted by: Annarisse on Mar 9, 2007 4:43 AM
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I know a few nurses who work in non-union settings. Their hospitals decided years ago to pay them by union scale. They don't have to bargain for it - they let the union members at other hospitals do the bargaining, and they reap the benefits. The same thing happens in the steel industry. Stelco goes on strike, fights tooth-and-nail for better wages and benefits, gets them - and a month later, Dofasco has a nearly-identical contract with its non-union workforce, and no strike. This in turn is one of the reasons the automotive industry is not yet dead in Ontario, as it is in much of the U.S. The union shops set the tone, and then the non-union Asian manufacturers follow suit without being asked.
Unions have a huge effect on wages in their sector, even for non-union employees.
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» RE: The role of strong unions is huge.
Posted by: CatDad
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Posted by: xi_people on Mar 9, 2007 4:52 AM
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The elite know what's coming down the pike and are engaged in a huge wealth transfer from the poor, middle class and marginally rich to themselves.
It was a good run while it lasted, but the paradigm of what constitutes a "normal" life in the "developed" world is about to get considerably worse.
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» RE: Its very ignorant... to have faith in "peak oil"
Posted by: rwa
» RE: Its very ignorant... to have faith in "peak oil"
Posted by: rwendell
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Posted by: karyse on Mar 9, 2007 5:01 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
People should not forget that they were striking, not for more money, but to make conditions safer for air traffic. They were overworked, and therefore more likely to make errors in judgment. And you are obviously anti-union.
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» RE: yeah, and
Posted by: dangerouslysane
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Posted by: citizenjoe on Mar 9, 2007 5:28 AM
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» RE: The meanings of the death of middle class
Posted by: albrechtkrausse
» The AWSOME power of the C.P.U.S.A.
Posted by: AdamSelene40
» RE: The AWSOME [sic] power of the C.P.U.S.A. (Does He Mean "Awesome"?)
Posted by: Douglas
» Clearly -- you do --
Posted by: AdamSelene40
» Clearly, you don't! Is proofreading "nitpicking"? Is failure to do it slovenly thinking?
Posted by: Douglas
» The meaning of Middle Class ...
Posted by: AdamSelene40
» RE: The meaning of Middle Class ...
Posted by: albrechtkrausse
» Not To Mention That People Without College Degrees Aren't Expected To Know How To Spell "Awesome"!
Posted by: Douglas
» TWO gratuitous put downs from ONE Elite Athole
Posted by: AdamSelene40
» I Wasn't "Putting You Down," I Was Justifying Your Poor Spelling!
Posted by: Douglas
» RE: Not To Mention That People Without College Degrees Aren't Expected To Know How To Spell "Awesome
Posted by: justAnEgg
» RE: Not To Mention That People Without College Degrees Aren't Expected To Know How To Spell "Awesome
Posted by: Douglas
» RE: Not To Mention That People Without College Degrees Aren't Expected To Know How To Spell "Awesome
Posted by: justAnEgg
» RE: Not To Mention That People Without College Degrees Aren't Expected To Know How To Spell "Awesome
Posted by: moflard
» RE: The meaning of Middle Class ...
Posted by: djnoll
» RE: The meaning of Middle Class ...
Posted by: albrechtkrausse
» RE: The meaning of Middle Class ...
Posted by: allUneedislove
» RE: The meaning of Middle Class ...
Posted by: djnoll
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Posted by: american on Mar 9, 2007 5:37 AM
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» RE: Noble subject poorly written.
Posted by: sayswho
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Posted by: bakho on Mar 9, 2007 5:48 AM
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Posted by: wawa on Mar 9, 2007 6:01 AM
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ONE car,
ONE bread winner and
kids were free to roam the neighborhood from sun up to sun down:
without cell phones and scheduled activities.
What happened?
The American people bought into the fanatasy of you can have it all:
a home in suburbia, vacations, HUMMERS to go grocery shopping! etc etc etc-
Families buy homes they cannot afford, work umpteen hours to pay the minimum on their credit cards, give their kids over to institutions or strangers to raise, and have no time for sex, fun or THINKING!
"We live in the midst of a suicidal economy, motivated by love of money. We have reached a dead end. What we need to turn it around are hearts in love with life. How do we do it?
We first must move from domination to partnership, and we begin by educating our young in awe and wonder, not how to take tests.
"Awe leads to reverence, which leads to gratitude, which will reinvent our species. This is the task of our generation: to regain awe.
"The three Rs need to be balanced by the ten Cs: contemplation, creativity, chaos, compassion, courage, critical consciousness, community, celebration, ceremony, and character.
“In community, people remain united, despite everything that divides them. In capitalist society, people are isolated, separated, despite everything that should hold them together.
"We are in the midst of an epic struggle between community and capitalistic society. We need a new narrative.
"It is the economy of materialism; it is the virus of affluenza that has weakened family life.”-excerpted KEEP HOPE ALIVE
http://www.wearewideawake.org/
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» We need to teach logical thinking again
Posted by: kathat
» We need to teach CRITICAL thinking, not just logical
Posted by: djnoll
» RE: We need to teach CRITICAL thinking, not just logical
Posted by: kathat
» RE: We need to teach CRITICAL thinking, not just logical
Posted by: djnoll
» RE: We need to teach logical thinking again
Posted by: Edward George
» IS IT JUST POSSIBLE THAT IF WE JUST ALLOWED THINKING
Posted by: mdruss42
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Posted by: paschn on Mar 9, 2007 6:08 AM
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Look back even one life span and you can see how the Republicans have raped the working class and STILL they have a large following of the very idiots who suffer the consequences of their rapaciousness. You allow them to privatize everything they can 'cuz they say they don't like big government. What they don't like are regulations that prevent them from getting their pudgy greasy fingers at tax-payer dollars.
These dogs aren't wise business men/women, in this cess-pool the only business savvy you need is the ability to write a check to the whores that "govern", (insert rape and pillage), us.
The solution, the ONLY solution I see is nationalizing both energy and communications but I continue to notice a glaring absence of talk about it.
I often use "sheeple" as a metaphor for the U.S. common folk but hell, we're WORSE than sheep. Even a damn sheep will butt it's agressors and voice objective noises which are slightly different from it's common work-a-day bleating. We not only remain mostly silent, we actually assume the position with an air of anticipation.
A nation of sheep, led by a cartel of whores, controlled by big business/Israel. Welcome,... to the REAL Evil Empire.
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» RE: Hi Drones!
Posted by: cottontail
» RE: Hi Drones!
Posted by: CatDad
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Posted by: kelt65 on Mar 9, 2007 6:28 AM
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Posted by: daw13 on Mar 9, 2007 6:50 AM
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These would seem to be powerful political forces driving current economics, but Krugman seems reluctant for some reason to present this perspective. The conspiracy to use government, rather than depend upon market forces, to control the world, and U.S. citizenry, is no more hidden than Samuel Huntington's The Clash of Civilizations, virtually a textbook for neo-libs and neocons alike.
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» RE: Kruglman is timid ---- and we're in for a rough ride
Posted by: amacd
» RE: Kruglman is timid ---- and we're in for a rough ride
Posted by: daw13
» WHO IS TO CONFESS AT THE COMING TRUTH AND RECONCILIATION HEARINGS
Posted by: mdruss42
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Posted by: VZEQICVA on Mar 9, 2007 6:57 AM
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Posted by: StuartH on Mar 9, 2007 7:10 AM
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making good attempts to sort out spaghetti bowl of
economic problems out.
The system seems to be heading towards TILT.
I recently went to an emergency room, thinking that
it was prudent, and that if it got expensive, it would
be in the range of a few hundred dollars.
This is in a rural area of Arizona where the hospital
is used to referring patients to other regional
facilities by air ambulance. After the billing went
through its cycle, the air ambulance cost turned
out to be about $28,500. The hospital cost was
in the neighborhood of $11,000 - for two days.
The insurance company involved refused to help
very much. The bill stands at about $35,000.
Several questions exist. How come medical care
billing can encompass such numbers? These
seem more in line with large scale corporate
finance than with any individual level economics.
If the rich are getting richer it apparently is
because they have figured out how to exploit
middle class and working class consumers
who won't fight exploitation. Honest working
people will mortgage themselves and pay off
debts rather than argue with the legitimacy of
such ripoffs.
That is probably what is keeping the economy
and the political system going the way it is.
What happens when people finally figure out
that this is really scam economics?
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» RE: TILT; And Arizona
Posted by: bob t
» RE: TILT; And Arizona
Posted by: djnoll
» RE: TILT
Posted by: VZEQICVA
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Posted by: ReallyBearish on Mar 9, 2007 7:20 AM
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Krugman doesn't need to look at any mutli-causal model for income inequity. The ball started rolling big time when Nixon defaulted and closed the gold window. Money supply expanded to pay for his foreign adventures along with inflation.
We're now in the middle of a bubble busting in the financial markets that should destroy whatever wealth the middle class had left. The enslavement follows the "inflation first, deflation next" model.
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Posted by: Menthol on Mar 9, 2007 7:26 AM
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» RE: Why the Middle Class is Disappearing
Posted by: shanaza
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Posted by: zipp28 on Mar 9, 2007 8:27 AM
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I would think that a revolution would come about if we the 80% of the population simply drive at slower than the speed limit. That is instead of 70mph or even 80 that we drop down to 50 or so and thusly save that wasted fuel and not let those at the top get so much money. Cut out the TV=Pharmacalogical connection aspect to our consciousness and for sure cut out all hypocritical acts everywhere. Stop reading the daily tree, ie paper for it is the words of those at the top. Then make a bigger stink about the criminals who are running the DC charade. Lastly expose over-all the fuitilities of wagging war and make that writ large into the comprehensions pertaining life regeneration and the human conditions.
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Posted by: Arvy on Mar 9, 2007 8:29 AM
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If you'll indulge a view from across the Atlantic:
I think he succeeded in this - other rulers have succeeded in other countries - because he told a good story. He sold the American people a myth about themselves, whether it's about being the greatest nation on earth, or the paragons of democracy or the defenders of truth and justice. Whatever… it sounds good and the people bought it.
I'm NOT comparing him to Hitler but the same thing happened to the Germans under Nazi rule. They were sold similar stories of Aryan exceptionalism which made it easier to control (or herd) them.
And his kind will continue to do so because they know that basically their people are sheep with no ability or desire to think for themselves. Until people decide to educate themselves and stop salivating everytime the bell is rung then it will just continue.
Kudos to those that are extricating themselves from this situation, it's like giving up drugs!
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» RE: Myths
Posted by: djnoll
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Posted by: Iconoclast421 on Mar 9, 2007 8:37 AM
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(Go vote for the gall-dang conservative who cares even less about jobs! heh)
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Posted by: citation on Mar 9, 2007 8:42 AM
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» Re: workforce does not want unions...
Posted by: SteveB
» RE: e: workforce does not want unions...
Posted by: dangerouslysane
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Posted by: SteveB on Mar 9, 2007 8:42 AM
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"restoring progressivity of the tax system, and using the revenue to improve social insurance and, above all, health care" are "still very hard to do politically."
Considering that opinion polls show widespread support for more progressive taxes and national health care, why are these "very hard" to do?
Unlike some of the cynics commenting here, I don't blame the American people (or "sheeple" as one commenter put it). They want the same things most of us want - better healtcare, a fair tax code, a secure government-guaranteed retirement. The problem is that our political system dosn't respond to the popular will.
As long as you continue to blame the public, instead of our non-democratic system, you're never going to get anywhere.
Yes, you can enahance your self-esteem by thinking you're superior to the "average" American, but this attitude is absolutely toxic to any real organizing, and it's the attitude our ruling class wants you to take.
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» There is no system holding us down, it is the illusion and reification of one that does..
Posted by: brad
» We don't disagree...much
Posted by: SteveB
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Posted by: olhsson on Mar 9, 2007 8:57 AM
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The two great engines of the middle class had been the Homestead Act and the GI bill after WWII. Both made landowners out of folks who didn't enjoy the fruits of inherited wealth and the latter sent working class kids to college for the first time. In addition, Roosevelt's Social Security (just ponder those two words within the context of a brewing socialist revolution) had lifted the burden of supporting one's parents from the working class which turned them into home-owning consumers having plenty of "disposable" income and credit.
The most short-sighted aspect of neo-fascism is failure to recognize the fact that as you tear apart the middle class, you destroy consumerism and ultimately your own long-term source of income. But nobody said these guys are smart. Many are also in denial of the fact that their own prosperity is more the product of "government hand-outs" to their families and employers than of any real skills or work accomplished.
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» RE: Landmarks
Posted by: kathat
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Posted by: futurefarm on Mar 9, 2007 9:11 AM
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How can he talk about the middle class and "forget" to mention the Federal Reserve. Is he really that uninformed or is there another reason he left it out.
Go directly to the truth.
Find anything by G. Edward Griffin.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G._Edward_Griffin Scroll to the bottom of the page. Visit the links especially THIS ONE.
http://www.futuresunltd.com/media/creature.mp3
It seems, some of his videos are disappearing from Google video so you may have to look for them. "Capitalist Conspiracy" is a good one. If you can still find it.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?
docid=-5137330196032136210
Paste the url below together
also try
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=
3996130931822078621&q=g+edward+griffin
It will take you to "Moles in High Places", and the second is "The Open Gates of Troy", both written and narrated by G. Edward Griffin.
The point is Hegelian pressure is being applied to us by the Globalist Banksters. They are squeezing the life out of us. They use well reported (thank you rear mongering corporate media) social disruption (community instability, drug war, pollution, poor health--aspartame etc.) to push from the bottom and economic disruption (trade agreements, inflation, taxation, fraud, crooked judges, state mandates, war) to push from the top. All of these, they themselves organize and fund using our income tax payments. (Thanks to the 14th amendment and the Federal Reserve Act)
This is the long and short of it: No Krugman necessary.
Download these videos and distribute them while you can.
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Posted by: DaBear on Mar 9, 2007 9:26 AM
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We don't need more sheeple, we need human beings and a participatory economy where the value emphasis is on the job being done and done well rather than which white male makes the most and gets to buy the affordable McMansion from the mid-$900,000's. When the person sweeping the floor is the same person that announces the co-op's major decisions and is paid the same as the person who does the marketing, then I'll be enthusiastic about joining the herd. But this isn't going to happen in 'Merkuh, where the lurch towards right-wing fascism and Xtian nationalism is far more inevitable (and yeah, it can just as easily happen under a Dim hat as a Republikaaner hat).
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» So in your "co-op" society...
Posted by: SteveB
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Posted by: marybess on Mar 9, 2007 9:51 AM
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The following programs were also instrumental in the creation of the middle class:
*G I Bill which made it possible for working class people to attend college
*federal legislation that made government loans to G I's so they could buy homes
*Social Security which kept a lot of the elderly out of abject poverty
I'm certainly not an expert on these matters. But it is clear that the economic circumstances we are experiencing are not "God given" or "the natural order," as those who benefit from the current situation would have us believe.
We can design our public life to benefit all of our citizens.
One place to start is health care. Why should we allow our health care to be held hostage to the private insurance industry's drive for profits. Since when do we have to give 33% of every dollar spent on health care to private insurers. Medicare is administered by the government at a cost of 3%! Let's get health insurers off the dole. We can't afford them. We can have a universal, single-payer system that covers everyone for the same money that now covers only 60% of the population under the private insurer system.
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» The best post ni this entire discussion.
Posted by: kittynboi
» RE: Unions weren't the only factor
Posted by: american
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Posted by: bob t on Mar 9, 2007 11:17 AM
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Another thing is that after WWII the corporations paid 43% of the cost of government and the people, the little taxpayer paid 57% of that cost. Today here are the numbers; corporations pay 7% of the cost of government while the little taxpayer pays 93% of the cost of government. Also I truly think that though corporations pay so little to support the government they reap .by far, most of the benefits from the government's existence. We the people pay for it, they reap all the benefits of it.
I do agree with Krugman that politics are the problem, specifically Republican politics. If we stoned every Republican politician they would quickly change but only for a short time. They need to be repeatedly stoned. Better yet why don't we just throw the bastards out of office for at least the nex twenty years and maybe we can tilt to the left.
Republicans, southerners and Catholics are the problem.
America is no longer one country, it is two separate countries and will never be the same. Stop religion, both Catholics and white southern evangelical Baptists, both are fundamentalist religions and very dangerous to we americans and to the rest of the world.
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Posted by: Bobsays on Mar 9, 2007 11:31 AM
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The left
- its love of uncontrolled and illegal migration has totally destroyed law and order and undermined the standard of living for the lower middle class. You only have to look at all the cities to see how they have become simulacra of the third world (the sort of third world hell holes you find in Brazil or Nigeria)
- its cultural relativism which has totally destroyed concepts like an honest day's work, or supporting community services no matter what your race or ethnicity (unlike the left which only sees it worthwhile to support your race or ethnic group only)
- drug use (which feeds the gang culture), loose morals (which destroys the family), no patriotism or loyalty to anything which breeds mass apathy
The right
- unfetered greed which has steam rolled communities across the country
- war without end which is bankrupting the country
- supporting illegal immigration which has undermined pretty well everything in the country
- not paying staff a living wage so they can have a home
It would be more helpful if the various political factions came clean on this and worked to return civility and a good standard of living to America's communities, both suburban and inner city.
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» The myth of immigrant crime
Posted by: fanny666
» RE: Who and what is killing the middle class
Posted by: Pistol
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Posted by: fanny666 on Mar 9, 2007 12:01 PM
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Krugman talk on economics
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Posted by: NoPCZone on Mar 9, 2007 12:13 PM
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If you take an unvarnished and unbiased look at the history of this country you see a very different country where repression against the uneducated, the poor, the working classes, the ethnic, people of color, women and just about everyone else has had to fight long and hard to get whatever they ultimately got. You also see people of wealth, power and position willing to sell the country, it's laws, principles, treasure and soldiers out in the interest of advancing their power and wealth- everyone else be damned.
Democracy, equality, equity, justice and social mobility are not the norm in the world and have rarely been the norm in in the US. From the Know-Nothings through the KKK to the Skinheads, people have been organized politically along lines of racial and ethnic fear-mongering. Women and people of color had to fight for their rights just as he LGBT community is today. Japanese-Americans were systemically robbed of property even as they were locked behind fences in remote places during WWII (the 'good' war). Working people have been shot, stabbed, clubbed and worse by goons, National Guard, Police and others for the mere act of trying to organize Labor Unions. The plight of America's native tribes and first peoples is a long and ugly one, subject to systemic discrimination by citizens, groups of citizens, corporate interests, and every level of government from local to Federal.
The current war in Iraq is not the first illegal war for corporate profit- the United Fruit Company had a number of their own fought by the Army & Marines. The Spanish-American War was sold on BS information and was also stirred up for greed and profit. The list is long and ugly.
The Bush Administration and NeoCon movement is nothing new-- it's more of the same old bullsh*t that has masqueraded behind the flag and Bible, while standing for nothing resembling patriotism or grace. It's a reversion to type, like an alcoholic going back to the bar or an addict returning to the crack house.
Knowing this and knowing this to be true, there is only one real question:
What are YOU/WE going to do about it?
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» RE: The Sad Truth
Posted by: TheNamelessCity
» RE: The Sad Truth
Posted by: futurefarm
» I am in my 30s...
Posted by: Bobsays
» Migrant workers.
Posted by: kittynboi
» Arbitrary.
Posted by: kittynboi
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Posted by: NewsPatriot on Mar 9, 2007 1:52 PM
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What you are missing here is that the economic model of the New Deal didn't change when conservative politics did. The turn back in time to the guilded age didn't start until reagan/bush ushered in the economics of Milton Friedman and the Chicago boys who came up with a flim flam scheme called privatization.
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Posted by: Shakti on Mar 9, 2007 2:30 PM
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What I see today is people whose sense of "us" has really shrunk to their immediate, nuclear family. Occasionally, it extends to other relatives or their church community, but not to other Americans. This is why they can turn a blind eye to Katrina etc. "Those people" are suffering and well .... too bad, I gave at the office. What will it take to think in terms of "us"?
My sister makes a good living selling real estate and recently told me that she hired a receptionist who was a single parent with kids, no alimony, no child support. She pays her $10 per hour, no benefits. I asked her why she didn't give her health insurance. (My husband, a small business owner who is still not drawing a salary from his business, gives a handful of his employees a health insurance option.) She hemmed and hawed ... "can't afford it" ... meanwhile, she drives a Jag. I just can't stand this sort of thing. My sister is also a Mormon and right-wing Republican. Somehow, she justifies exploiting this woman. I don't get it. She will continue to vote for the party that helps her feel superior to others in morals and class (the Republicans). I think there is a clue here: right-wing Repubicans believe they are morally superior to others (e.g., pro-life, anti-gay, etc.) and therefore, deserve to have a better life. Republicans appeal to this sense of exclusivity - "Vote for us and you, too, will be better than others. Vote for the Democrats and consort with the riff raff."
My family is actually a good example of the new class structure. We grew up middle class, possibly upper middle class (dad was an executive with a big company) and now my sisters are in one class (affluent) and I am in another (not affluent), despite the fact that I'm the only one in the family with a Ph.D. Academia has certainly not made me rich, so I'm not impressed by arugments that education is the way to get ahead.
My students at the university where I teach tend to exemplify the Social Darwinism that has taken over the country. They are very focused on their GPA's and professional tracks and not at all interested in exploring ethics, morality, philosophy or meaning. They tend to think about public policy in terms of cost, rather than humanism. They are often driven by fear of falling behind in the rat race, hell bent on besting their peers in the competition to get ahead. It can be disheartening.
I do my best to get them to connect with their own humanity, but they don't always get it. How can we get from "survival of the greediest" to "flourishing of the kindest"?
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» RE: greed versus altruism
Posted by: MartianBachelor
» good post
Posted by: WhatNow?
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Posted by: gaiza on Mar 9, 2007 2:54 PM
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I've read many comments and some of the situations mentioned there I have experienced myself and see how it's easy to be angry to the system when seeing in the bills five/six digit numbers and much less in your paycheck.
After having lived here for four years , I've realized that American system makes people not to have time to think. If they had that time, then people would go out on the streets and require democracy in work places, make the Bill of Rights as a Law (as one of the commentators said); take away credit system which makes credit system holders richer, and makes people sink in debts; change the health care and educational system so that they would be affordable to anyone and have highly educated instructors as private medical institutions and private schools, etc..
But American people are too busy to think how to solve the problems and put the road for the better future for their children. They hardly have time to be with kids, share their time watching television, or go to movies, and if that by some chance happens - TV or Movies are full of stupidifying mind commercials. People are surrounded with that commercials and 60-80 hour jobs that make them exhausted and indifferent to anything after it. When they wake up in some free minutes realizing how much they struggle, and instead of living the are existing/surviving - they get angry at the system, upset, ...but helpless to change anything as they are affraid of losing the last what they have.
And those who know that many things are deteriorating in America , who could bring some positive changes, are inert, slow and keep the life they have.
It's you, who have power of voice, who aren't afraid of losing a job or reputation, should help to make these reforms happen in fact , not theoreticaly.
Everybody knows that the words in this situation don't change things, actions are needed.
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» There's more to the dark side of RAY-GUN than most people know about that motherfucker !
Posted by: Jason Jordan
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Posted by: rwa on Mar 9, 2007 3:08 PM
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» Production vs Service.
Posted by: kittynboi
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Posted by: kathat on Mar 9, 2007 3:17 PM
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Posted by: sofla100 on Mar 9, 2007 6:55 PM
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Posted by: Hal on Mar 9, 2007 7:41 PM
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And that would be a cesspit of an American system that pretends to be something it hasn’t been for a hundred years. Namely: a nation set up by the founders as a 1] genuine republican style democracy 2] operated thru valid open market capitalism.
Both assumptions are tragically gullible and lethally amiss. We live under fascist plutocracy beneath a false mask of pretend democracy and mock capitalism where both are killing jokes exported worldwide.
The pillars of fascist plutocracy sold as “democracy” are in order of importance:
1] control of the economy thru illegal private rigging and de facto ownership of the central banking system (“Federal Reserve” Corp)
2] control of the MSM thru direct and indirect extortion ( Operation Mockingbird , faux “leftwing” rigging , interlocking boards, etc)
3] control of “education” and public policy thru old robber baron foundations that effectively brainwash the public thru omission, whitewash and falsification of the historical record. (A nation that does not own its own history is a conquered nation)
Again, oligarch cooking of the economy is enforced thru a “Federal Reserve” Corporation sting that was never federal and has no reserves but a Ponzi trap. In 93 years the “Fed” has raised the average cost of living by almost 10,000%. ($1 in 1913 roughly equal to 1.034¢ in November of 2006).
7 Freedom to Fascism cartel FACTS on the “Federal Reserve” Corp per G.E. Griffin:
1. The Fed is incapable of accomplishing its stated objectives.
2. It is a cartel operating against the public interest.
3. It is the supreme instrument of usury.
4. It generates our most unfair tax through inflation and bailouts.
5. It encourages war.
6. It destabilizes the economy.
7. It discourages private capital formation.
“I have unwittingly ruined my country… we have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated governments in the world. A government by the opinion and duress of a small group of dominant men.”
PRESIDENT WOODROW WILSON (on oligarch tyranny, three years after signing a “Federal Reserve Act” and its privately owned credit monopoly into law. Quote 1916)
“Some people think the Federal Reserve Banks are U.S. government institutions. They are not…The sack of the United States by the Fed is the greatest crime in history. The truth is the Fed has usurped the government. It controls everything here and it controls all our foreign relations. It makes and breaks governments at will.”
CONGRESSMAN LOUIS T. MCFADDEN (Chairman, House Banking & Currency Committee, charging a private “Federal Reserve” Corporation with crimes of conspiracy, fraud & treason, June 1932)
“If you want to be the slaves of [private cartel] banks and pay the cost of your own slavery, then let the banks create money…”
SIR JOSIAH STAMP (Governor of the privately owned Bank of England and the 2nd richest individual in Britain. A man in service to the Rothschilds.1920)
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» RE: KOOL-AID KRUGMAN @ the CON STATE
Posted by: yellow
» RE: KOOL-AID KRUGMAN @ the CON STATE
Posted by: Hal
» RE: KOOL-AID KRUGMAN @ the CON STATE
Posted by: yellow
» RE: KOOL-AID KRUGMAN @ the CON STATE
Posted by: Hal
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Posted by: AdamG on Mar 9, 2007 9:47 PM
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Once upon a time there was no inflation, and no debt. There wa only production. When someone produced something, they demanded a price, and a fair one at that. We shall call that parity.
People were so good at producing due to an abundance of resources that some people hoarded goods. Once they hoarded enough goods, they figured that they didn't have to work anymore, they could lend their hoarded goods and charge interest. And hence debt was born.
Now, wealth wasn't measured by how much you produced but by how obligated people were to produce for you. No longer were you obligated to even room and board your slaves. All you had to do was to lend people enough so that they would be at your mercy for their whole lives, and then some! Just give someone eough of the proverbial rope to hang themselves.
OK, this is where you shoud gather real close and listen real good so that this faerytayle can have a good ending.
1. Buy lots of guns and ammos and learn to go for head shots because the following measures are going to REALLY piss some people off and Blackwater Boys don't fuck around.
2. Stop borrowing public and private. No more bonds. When you find yourself in a hole, stop digging.
3. Stop consuming so much.
4. Destroy the Fed and fractional banking. Why are we acknowledging making something out of nothing? It's hocus pocus.
5. Reinstate tariffs (or import quotas per WTO rules)
6. Learn to live within your natural environs and do something that is actually useful and meaningful for yourself and others
7. Plant some trees- there isn't such a thing as too many trees
8. Learn to rely on those that are close enough to lynch. If they aren't accessible, they aren't accountable.
9. Learn and practice population control AT ALL COSTS. There really are too many talking monkeys.
10. If you're working, and succeeding, at the first 9, sit back and throw a few back or smoke a phat one, you've earned it.
And THEN, we can all live happily ever after.
Or until the next Ice Age, whichever come first.
THE END
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Posted by: Blade on Mar 10, 2007 4:21 AM
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You know what else helped? THE RISE OF WORLD WIDE CONCSIOUSNESS RAISING! IN THE FORM OF SOCIALISM!
Wobblies! Before that, children were working twelve hours a day!
How do you think we got more money and the 8 hour day from the fat cats? Labor led the way to wrest it away from the bourgousie, and the upper class, and the middle class ended up being created. Pre-NewDeal, this happened.
Yes, Wilson gave the fat cats the upper hand with the Fed Reserve, but the lower classes were actually helped by being whipped by the depression, so that Roosevelt, heavily influenced by the Socialist Movement and it's attendant centralized philosophy, took heed and helped.
Mostly out of fear and necessity, fat cat himself, and not wanting the tradition of fat cat-ism to go down the drain as it had in Russia, quite recently.
By 1936 Hitler and Mussolini were coming into power, and Roosevelt also knew he'd need the lower classes of USA back on their feet because trouble was coming.
Trouble is, Roosevelt had to make the presidency into an Emperor-ship to do it. Many factors went into that development, and WWII was one of them.
Then, all those men came back from WWII, and there was a lot of working women in the market place, and they had a lot of power.
Thus something happened that is why the Air-Controllers were screwed years later, and "striking against the law".
The fat-cats got control of Congress and Senate and outlawed union power. TAFT-HARTLEY ACT.
Truman vetoed it, called it a slave labor law, but to no avail.
If not for that, when the air controllers had threatened to strike, their bosses would have had to come to the table.
But they knew the controllers had no real power, and they, the bosses, had the muscle with the FEDS behind them. Like Hitler's Black shirts.... or Musslolini's Brown shirts...
THEIR Strike was illegal because of a unfair law, which some day will be over turned, a fat-cat law called the TAFT-HARTLEY ACT.
If not for that law, unions would not have to resort to trickery, and resort to seniority systems, etc. The TAFT-HARTLEY corrupts the union, too. Study the dynamics of it, if you have enough time, or life experience.
TAFT-HARTLEY handed too much power to owners, which corrupts, and too little power to workers, which also corrupts.
You say LABOR should not have power for work stoppage, BULLHOCKEY.
My labor is PROPERTY!!! You cannot tell me to work, or not. I say if I work or not. Same for them, not matter what their job is. If a worker is smart enough to get a power job, treat him right, and he won't have to strike.
What could have stopped the nation's air traffic, is that the owners would not come to the table in ernest, because they had an unfair law backing them up, and the muscle, guns of police, to back up their bullshit.
Women thought they would get the right to vote after the Civil WAR, their movement had been going strong, but no, political trade off, and they didn't get vote for another, what, seventy years?! Three or four generations!
Same here, workers got screwed years ago with Taft-Hartley and some day it will get straightened out, we will get our right to collectively bargain, and control our own property, labor, again.
Fat cats, you own land, buildings, paper money and deeds. I own what I do with my body. My labor is my PROPERTY!
"without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation."-Amendment V
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Posted by: martyweiss on Mar 10, 2007 7:31 AM
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The same dynamic holds with wealth, which tends to concentrate until one corporation has it all.
Famously, when this country was still a province of European wealth, corporations sent murderous bounty hunters to enforce it's contracts until we established a government of the people to regulate corporate wealth in the form of feudal power: Kings, nobles, etc. Still, the majority of cattle ranches were owned by European money.
When the corporation was given, by Supreme Court fief, the protections of individual rights, corporations again began to monopolize and dominate affairs. Simply the effect of wealth is enough to control the acquisition of wealth.
T.R. tried to bust the trusts, but the wealthy backers of the GOP evicted T.R. from his position.
So we have a continual see-sawing of corporate control of people and wealth. Eventually, greed gets so bad it loses public support and the wealthy have to rename themselves as populists, but in name only.
Since WWII, corporate wealth has dominated our gov't. Go back to the 1920's, when Standard Oil protected it's monopoly on fuel by the Prohibition of Alcohol, to the thirties, when hemp was prohibited-- both alcohol and hemp oil are substitute fuels.
By busting unions and equating them with Communism, corporations have managed to get in control of wealth and people again. Yet, once again, the bottom line is short-sighted, limiting innovation and becoming increasingly calcified to the point of dysfunctionality and the loss of common sense.
Now we have embarked on a "war" that will keep the military-industrial complex in control for generations. Any opposition is unpatriotic.
Yet this is no war. It is simply an illegal invasion, just like Saddam's "naked aggression, which will not stand"-- Bush I.
Wealth has once again become untenable and dysfunctional in the management of government. Although Crisis, Conflict, and Catastrophe benefit corporate wealth and the Defense and Oil industries, they don't benefit the people themselves, who are the ultimate creators of wealth.
People, not banks, give money value. People, not corporations, are the ultimate criterion of prosperity. Yet wealth will always, unregulated, tend to overpower people. Thus governments and unions are created to protect the people from the enslavement of wealth by legal regulation.
Unregulated capitalism creates slaves, just like unregulated fishing empties the oceans.
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Posted by: yellow on Mar 10, 2007 9:50 AM
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Core living costs like health care, housing, food, energy, and education are rising at twice or more the rate of inflation. Thus we have a "profits push" inflation or in more common language, the effects of corporate greed. CEO salaries are also leaping ahead the inflation rate for the past twenty years which is one reason for the concentration of wealth and disappearance of the middle class. Costs effect the top and bottom income tiers in US society differently since the bottom 80% of society has had no real income increase over the past two decades while the bottom half has experienced a real decline. Only the top 1% has recieved a real increase of about 10% or more. Economists have correlated high income concentrations with slowed overall GDP growth rates. The period of highest income and GDP growth in US history coincides with the period of the greatest income equality when the upper 1% had far less than the nearly 25% of the national income it has today. Todays average annual GDP growth rates are less than half those of the peak of the early 1960s when union density was nearly 35%.
To blame trade unions and "high wages" on the countries downfall is ludicrous. Average wages never caused inflation in the US and spurred the demand and productivity that created the US middle class and spurt of economic growth that put the US in the forefront of the World Economy four decades ago. Overall wage deceleration in the late 1970s and early 1980s as well as the fact that US average industrial wage costs as a proportion of total overhead costs in industry being on par with or lower than many western industrial countries, only makes union a convienient scapegoat for the right in terms of US industrial decline. Failure to retool US industry, poor product design, short sighted quarter to quarter mentality of management, and a profound overproduction in global stocks of consumer durables in the early 1970s leading to a world recession exacerbated by oil price shocks and currency devaluation led to US overall economic woes. The working class was only trying to keep up in the 1960s and 70s and was not the cause of these structural problems.
Global retrenchment of industrial production and the restructuring of the US economy has led to a two tier US economy reducing the middle class. We now have a more stratified society of rich and poor with slower economic growth rates and a less solid basis to the skewed US economy. Our aging population has left health care as the single largest growth industry, about 20% of US GDP currently, and services, finance and retail making up most of the rest. The vast majority of the fewer and fewer net jobs pay well below the poverty line for a family of four and many pay only just above the poverty line for a single individual. Trade Unions, which organize less that 10% of the US private work force negotiate wages levels that are barely above the poverty line for thier members. Globalization have been tough on all of us except for the nearly 1000 new billionaires that have been created world wide by this situation over the past decade or so. And income distribution continues to worsen in the US and world wide. The time has come for redistribution on all national levels. Unions and wages are the best start in reversing the upward income shift that we have experienced since the Reagan era.
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» RE: My two cents...
Posted by: Blade
» RE: My two cents...
Posted by: yellow
» The COLOR of DENIAL (@ the fiat money bubble)...
Posted by: Hal
» RE: The COLOR of DENIAL (@ the fiat money bubble)...
Posted by: yellow
» RE: The COLOR of DENIAL (@ the fiat money bubble)...
Posted by: Hal
» RE: The COLOR of DENIAL (@ the fiat money bubble)...
Posted by: yellow
» RE: The COLOR of DENIAL (@ the fiat money bubble)...
Posted by: Hal
» RE: The COLOR of DENIAL (@ the fiat money bubble)...
Posted by: yellow
» RE: The COLOR of DENIAL (@ the fiat money bubble)...
Posted by: Hal
» RE: The COLOR of DENIAL (@ the fiat money bubble)...
Posted by: yellow
» RE: The COLOR of DENIAL (@ the fiat money bubble)...
Posted by: Hal
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Posted by: chseitz on Mar 10, 2007 10:19 AM
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One of the problems with protecting the middle class from erosion is the growing size of corporations as they gobble up other companies resulting in a lack of competition and the growing specter of monopoly. This condition causes higher prices, less customer service, poor quality, lower wages, higher unemployment, and a smaller workforce. It also produces a higher concentration of corporate profits and CEO entitlements. This is a situation not intended by the concept of the American Free Enterprise System and the American Dream. As predicted by Frederick Hayek, we are traveling down the Rad to Serfdom. But commerce and industry are not alone to blame for this; There is a growing state of complicity with an ever growing and authoritarian government.
While all this is going on, there is a new political game in town where Centrists are gaining ground amassing a grass roots consensus of political power consolidating divergent groups to form a voting bloc to counter the minority money power: votes vs. money. Al the while the Democrats are still playing the old game of liberal and progressive left against the conservative right. Once the middle class regains its political power it will vote in a Congress that will legislate a reorganization of government and a new democratic corporate structure and give corporations the right to issue money for their own operations. This expedient is based on a new understandings of the workings of the of our economic system. It has been discovered that industry has its own economic system and should have its own money. Once the industrial system is allowed to operate in its own right and with its own institutions and not be subject to the rules and regulations of the present and classical Mercantile system all our economic problems will be solved and then the middle class will be protected from further erosion. I explain all this in my just self-published book REVENGE AT HIGH TOR. Available on Amazon.com.
It s a dramatic novel of intrigue that fights political corruption and shows how the middle class can defend itself against the mega corporate military industrial complex and the concentration of money powers who want to destroy it. It shows a new kind of industrial and information age corporate structure and political game plan for the coming generation. Happy reading.
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Posted by: Darrell Kern on Mar 10, 2007 11:45 AM
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Posted by: halg on Mar 10, 2007 1:22 PM
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However, I did find Tom Degan's blogspot, thanks to a thoughtful counter-blogger. Now, there's a guy who can write. In fact, maybe Alternet should post him instead of this lazy excuse. His posts are short enough that it doesn't take all afternoon to read them, and he writes with flair and interest in his reader. No comma splices, no run-on sentences. Just good writing that is a joy to read (even if I only agree with him on about 98% of what he says).
Pasta.
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» RE: How much does it cost to proofread your own work?
Posted by: Blade
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Posted by: Ledhed on Mar 11, 2007 5:41 PM
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Posted by: rkm on Mar 11, 2007 10:44 PM
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"By the time World War II was over, we had become the
middle-class society that the baby boomers in this audience
grew up in. We had become a much more equal society. That
high degree of equality began to go away -- depending on
exactly which numbers you look at -- during the late 70's,
maybe a little earlier than that. And at this point we're
basically back to pre-tax and transfer to the levels of
inequality that we had in 1929."
As previous commenters have said, we do not live in a democracy. The nation is controlled by the rich. They made a conscious decision after WW II to create a more equitable society so as to have public support for their immense postwar imperialist project in the third world. They knew there would be enough profits to support a prosperous middle class.
In the 70s the postwar growth bubble was slowing down, and the ruling elite made a conscious decision to abandon the middle class, and to begin cannabilizing the national economy. The substitution of 'market forcces' for national planning was a conscious choice, the means of cannibilization.
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Posted by: Cerberus on Mar 13, 2007 9:21 AM
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* Higher taxes, especially marginal taxes on high income earners
* Stronger Unions
* More income distribution
This has been tried with disastrous results in Sweden 30 years ago.
In the early 70's Sweden was one of the worlds wealthiest countries it had the best welfare system in the world, one of the worlds most hard working people. Today some 30 years later Sweden is no 17 in world economy, has a 20 % of its population living on grants and some 10 % on sick leave, nobody wants to work. The welfare system is the most inefficient of all OECD countries, most tax dollar per capita is wasted only 6 outof 10 dollars actually go where they are supposed to go. It has created a system of welfare poor some 10 % of the Swedish population living on welfare, social security at an extremely low level.
How did this come about. Mr Krugmans medicine did it!
1. The taxes were overnite raised by 50 %
2. High marginal taxes, 95 % and in some cases 105%
3. A strengthening of the trade union
4. The public sector was expanded 3 times, Sweden has a public sector twice the size of OECD countries.
Mr Krugmans remedy is a sure way of making the American people poorer and making the midle class extinct as it is in Sweden
Read the article from on of the few liberal magazines in Sweden, Axess and please do not do the same mistake as Sweden. Go your own way.
"The cost of equality"
http://www.axess.se/english/2003/04/equality.php
An impoverished middle class.
To create equality, the Swedish economy has been dominated by high-rate taxation. It is counter-productive system. Only the wealthy can maintain a high living standard. There are few incentives, either for individuals or emerging businesses. It has become almost impossible to make a financial climb in Sweden.
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» Exposing your biased, hyper-capitalist, Americentric thinking
Posted by: Aufklaerung_Baboon
» RE: xposing your biased, hyper-marxist thinking
Posted by: Cerberus
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Posted by: electorials on Mar 13, 2007 8:18 PM
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Check out our brand new blogs and our great and organized political message boards.
Bryan
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Posted by: Aufklaerung_Baboon on Mar 15, 2007 10:46 AM
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» RE: Please set aside bourgeois politics for a moment and read this...
Posted by: yellow
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Posted by: xtiml on Mar 19, 2007 4:54 AM
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» RE: xtiml
Posted by: yellow
Vancouver's Games Will Be the Gayest Olympics Ever
Trial Begins for Activist Who Fought to Protect Federal Lands from Drilling -- Join the Protest
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