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Why Rudy Guiliani Is Destined to Fall

By Paul Waldman, TomPaine.com. Posted March 1, 2007.


What GOP voters want to know is, are you one of us or not? And that tribal identity is formed by one thing above all else: Do you hate the right people?

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According to the latest polls, Rudy Giuliani has a commanding lead over his rivals for the 2008 Republican nomination for president. Though polls this early mostly measure name identification (ask Joe "Mentum" Lieberman, who was leading the Democratic pack at this time four years ago), it's hard to ignore the good feelings Giuliani generates among the GOP faithful.

Yet at the same time, conventional wisdom has it that as conservative Christian voters learn more about Giuliani -- specifically, his positions on abortion and gay rights and his marital history (infidelity along the way to three marriages), the support will quickly fade.

This conventional wisdom is partly correct, but not for the reasons we usually hear from the talking heads. The problem conservative voters will have with Giuliani isn't just about disagreement on issues, and it certainly isn't about bad behavior in his personal life. It's about the fact that no matter how hard he tries, Giuliani just isn't going to be able to convince them that he's part of their tribe.

The entirety of Giuliani's appeal, of course, is built on the fact that on the day of 9/11, he managed to hold a series of press conferences without wetting his pants. And so he has left no doubt that 9/11 will be the beginning, middle and end of his presidential campaign; as a recent headline in The Onion put it, "Giuliani To Run For President of 9/11."

No one could accuse him of failing to grasp an opportunity when he sees it: Giuliani has turned himself into a one-man September 11, Inc., charging $100,000 a pop to give speeches touting his steely resolve in the face of terror. When it comes to exploiting the memory of 9/11 for personal gain, George W. Bush has nothing on Rudy.

But for all the benefit he has reaped -- including the prevailing idea that Giuliani somehow has credibility on foreign affairs and national security, when his experience in both arenas is basically zero -- he is destined to fall. That fall should be one of the more interesting political stories we've seen in a while, but it's important to understand the reasons which factors will cause the GOP electorate to spit him out like a rotten peanut, and which won't. Commentators tend to lump Giuliani's positions on abortion and gay rights with his personal history. It's the former that will matter, and the latter that won't.

For all the talk of "family values" and the passionate condemnation of Bill Clinton's affair with Monica Lewinsky, conservatives are enormously understanding when it comes to their own. As Glenn Greenwald pointed out recently conservatives don't seem to care whether their leaders have violated the personal morality they claim to hold:

Two of the most admired political figures among Christian conservatives -- Rush Limbaugh and Newt Gingrich -- have the most shameful, tawdry and degenerate personal lives (using the claimed standards of that political faction). Yet the gross disparity between their personal conduct and the religious and moral values they espouse has not injured their standing in the slightest among the 'values voters.'

And with Rudy it's even worse. It's not just that he's been married three times, and that he committed adultery; the way he treated his second wife was positively sadistic. As their marriage was crumbling, he paraded down the street in front of photographers with his then-mistress and now wife, Judi. He then informed his wife that he was leaving her -- via a press conference.

But Greenwald is right that none of that will matter. What GOP voters want to know is, are you one of us or not? And what makes a candidate "one of us"? That tribal identity is formed by one thing above all else: Do you hate the right people?

That may be a bit crude. But the demarcation of in-groups and out-groups is the key to tribal politics. Identity is defined not only by knowing who's in your group, but more critically, who's outside it. As Merle Haggard sang in 1969's "Okie From Muskogee," "We don't make a party out of lovin'/ We like holdin' hands and pitchin' woo/ We don't let our hair grow long and shaggy/ Like the hippies out in San Francisco do."

Ever since "Okie," conservatives have looked to popular culture to provide emblems of identity, ways they can define themselves as opposed to the kind of people they don't like. Every time you tune your radio to a country station or sit down to watch a stock car race, it's almost as good as punching a hippie in the face.

Most of the culture-war issues that matter to conservatives have something to do with sex. Let's take abortion, where Rudy is famously out of step with his GOP brethren. The point here isn't just that they differ with him on an important issue, in the way that a Democrat who supported the Iraq war would have problems with Democratic voters. Abortion is fundamental to conservatives because it relates to sex and thus defines an entire worldview.

To conservatives, abortion isn't so much about the welfare of fetuses as it is about the status of women and the nature of sex. Opposition to sex "without consequences" is key to the maintenance of the border between the in-group and the out-group. This is where the rape and incest exceptions come from: victims of rape and incest got pregnant not because they willingly had sex (which only sluts do, of course), but through no fault of their own. Their sexual purity is intact, and as such they need not be punished by being forced to carry their pregnancy to term. Either you think (or at least will proclaim publicly) that sex outside of marriage is sinful and women who engage in it should be punished, or you don't. And if you support legal abortion, you don't.


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Paul Waldman is a Senior Fellow at Media Matters for America and author of the new book, Being Right is Not Enough: What Progressives Must Learn From Conservative Success.

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Giuliani is formidable and getting stronger
Posted by: Moonray on Mar 1, 2007 3:05 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is one of the silliest political articles I've ever read -- a real exercise is wishful thinking. Paul Waldman should check the polls. Giuliani is rolling like a freight train, picking up tremendous support not only among moderates but religious conservatives as well.

His chief advantage is his stage presence: He simply LOOKS like a president, and in politics appearance is everything. Compared to Hillary, Obama and Edwards, Giuliani comes across as Abraham Lincoln.

Don't get me wrong. I detest Republicans as much as anyone and the thought of another Republican presidential administration makes me physically ill. But we need to evaluate the candidates realistically. Waldman's wishful thinking won't cut it.

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» I've lived in NYC since 1985 Posted by: brunowe
» RE: I've lived in NYC since 1985 Posted by: Conservasaurus
Perhaps that is why...
Posted by: diof09 on Mar 1, 2007 5:06 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I hear the word "vetting" used so frequently by conservatives because they need to know if a particular person or plan fits their strong right-wing position. Ever since I first heard this word being used on a regular basis by conservatives, I am always amazed that no one interviewing them asks: "Exactly what do you have in mind when you use that word 'vetted'?" Obviously, that is code word for the person being in their "in group".

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solid post - spot on
Posted by: BKLN on Mar 1, 2007 5:13 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This article really nails the fundamentalist "right" on the money, and specifically as regards Guiliani. He may be "rolling like a freight train" right now, but that train is going to fly off the tracks before this ride is over.

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» RE: solid post - spot on Posted by: Lauren
This is a very good article
Posted by: itzamirakul on Mar 1, 2007 5:28 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As the writer quite correctly points out, Giuliani has never had to face a real group of professional critics. Also, I think it helps that only a few people are demonizing him and turning him into a villain so that he does not appear to be "the one that the GOP has to support against his opposition." In fact, right now, the Democrats are totally ignoring this piece of scum, much to their own benefit. (It won't be long though before they wake up and shoot themselves in the foot again as usual).

Democrats need to realize that the longer Giuliani is ignored, the less important he becomes on the national ticket. He has a humongous ego and being ignored does not sit well with him. His own ego might be his downfall.

His poll figures in NYC through Sept. 10 were abysmal. He had grown to be despised by over 2/3 of the city. He has been floating on the 911 Bubble ever since with no discussion or question about the period preceding that momentous day.
Or his OTHER experi

While people were jumping from the 99th floors of the WTC Giuliani took the time to grab local cable tv station NY1 reporter Andrew Kirchman to follow him and record his actions (all very strong and positive, of course) for posterity. Kirchner got a book out of the deal and a gig at a major network for his cooperation with RG.

No one has asked him yet where his official daily records are for the years he occupied City Hall. He took all city records with him when he left office "to clean them up" before restoring them to the City's Archives. There has been no report of them having been returned.

No one has asked him why he closed City Hall off to the public when he took office and never once opened it again until he left. He would probably do the same thing to the WH if given the opportunity.

His record on race relations is very poor and will perhaps deter the very few "black Republicans" from supporting him. Not that THAT will matter very much. Even his black Deputy Mayor has said recently that when it came to race relations, Giuliani was "absolutely cold." Now THAT fact alone will help him with the racist right wing.

He was "poor as a church mouse" until 911. Since then he has become filthy rich, opening several businesses and lecturing on 911. It will be interesting to hear him explain why he sent the debris from the WTC to China and other foreign countries for disposal rather than allow it to be tested for truth in what really happened on that day. In other words he sold out to special interests groups in NYC .

His father was a member of the Mafia, though the newspapers tried to insist that Dad was a low-ranking member. Yeah, Right!

He abandoned his wife and children, moved in with a gay couple and publicly paraded his then-paramour , Judy Nathan, in front of the whole city in a parade or two.

I am glad the right-wing "moral majority" has this pos on their team. He fits quite well there.

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Excellent article
Posted by: True2Blue on Mar 1, 2007 5:31 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I agree that this article is dead-on correct. The right wing here in the US clearly defines itself by creating enemies for its members, magnifying the threats such groups pose to the "wholesome" way of life it espouses. Right-wing people love to hate "The Other." This article says it more openly and succinctly than I've ever read before.

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Wanna bet?
Posted by: paschn on Mar 1, 2007 5:42 AM   
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you over-estimate the U.S. sheeples' intelligence. The "boys" will spend a bunch on publishing bullshit to the public, then if they're still worried, they'll simply flip the results. And the drones will continue buying their products.

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Who then will it be?...
Posted by: Leman on Mar 1, 2007 5:46 AM   
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Interesting article. May or may not be right.

The author seems to forget that 2008 is a fresh new election, meaning that people can not take an easy way out and just vote for the current boss. That means voters are forced to choose 1 out of all available candidates. Therefore, the choice is based not as much on the absolute qualities of a candidate as on how he (or she) compares with the others. This may explain why empirical evidence so far goes against the neat theory presented in this article.

It is obviously too early to make any wagers, but so far it seems to me that the semi-finals will give us Giuliani (whose name is misspelled in the title) by a very narrow margin and Obama by a landslide. The finals will give us Giuliani by a pretty narrow but obvious margin (no re-count needed, that is). At least that's how it looks to me right now.

This article was an interesting theoretical exercise but it only told us who the author thought it won't be. Who will it be then?

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» RE: Who then will it be?... Posted by: Lauren
Gas bag
Posted by: redstarwraith on Mar 1, 2007 7:28 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I've always instinctively hated the guy - more for personal reasons that I need not detail here. One thing in these comments I read that is positively hysterically funny are these arch-conservative types who lable any democrat a "liberal." Gimmie a break! ALL those Washington politicos are WHORES to one degree or another (it just so happens that the republicans are BIGGER whores than most the dems. . .but I digress). If these so-called politicians had to wear the lables of every corporation that has bought and paid for them, they'd look like friggin NASCAR drivers with all their sponsers proudly displayed.

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» RE: Gas bag Posted by: diof09
No matter what Rudy says, evangelicals will vote for him
Posted by: DougScott on Mar 1, 2007 7:40 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Evangelicals are pragmatic hypocrites who hate Democrats more than abortion. Rudy could be an ax murderer and the Bible-pounding crowd would support him in November -- if they thought he'd win.

Hugh E. Scott, creator/editor of www.King-George.biz -- the only website with hardcopy proof of White House corruption.

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please let this be true
Posted by: schnoggi on Mar 1, 2007 7:56 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
how ironic (and damned funny) that the EXTREMELY precious few bits of actual integrity the man has could be his downfall.

i so hope to see him disappear from the political landscape.

and I think this article nails a lot of the mindset we are up against, most comfortable when it's knee-jerking away from some distraction, ready to spackle over any actual moral failings as long as the candidate hates "liberals". and how funny they think of that capitulator McCain as one, what a worthless man.

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Who told Ghouliani that the tower
Posted by: kellysgarden on Mar 1, 2007 8:16 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
was about ready to collapse while he was in his command bunker in building #7? The polling among Americans is showing that about 50% believe 9/11 was an inside job, and most of those 50% believe Rudi was in on it. This is probably the reason he won't make it as a viable candidate. He has blood on his hands.

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yes, Rudy will fall
Posted by: mareeetee on Mar 1, 2007 10:19 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I agree with the writer that Rudy will fall. I think it is true that too often, Republicans are too willing to overlook tawdry behavior in one of their own - however I do not think this willingness to overlook this kind of behavior will extend as far as to a Presidential candidate.


The writerrefers to abortion in an interesting way by saying:
Abortion is fundamental to conservatives because it relates to sex and thus defines an entire worldview.

To conservatives, abortion isn't so much about the welfare of fetuses as it is about the status of women and the nature of sex. Opposition to sex "without consequences" is key to the maintenance of the border between the in-group and the out-group. This is where the rape and incest exceptions come from: victims of rape and incest got pregnant not because they willingly had sex (which only sluts do, of course), but through no fault of their own. Their sexual purity is intact, and as such they need not be punished by being forced to carry their pregnancy to term.


Although I embrace many liberal causes
, I am pro-life. I think that it is refreshing for this
writer to admit that for many, being pro-choice IS about having sex without consequences, even if it means killing an unborn human. The hallmark of
maturity is

being able to accept responsibility for, and consequences of, one's actions. I think that yes, parents are responsible for the children they conceive through their own actions. If they can be held responsinble after birth, they can be held responsible before the birth of the child. As far as the "right to one's body", it is neccessary to use one's body for the care of the child after it is born until age 18, why should it be not right to use one's body in the proper manner for the care of the child before it is born? The rape exception comes in here, because some believe it is not right to hold someone responsible for a child she did not conceive through her own free actions.

It is also interesting that the writer views conceiving a child as a "punishment", the solution to which is the violence of abortion.
Many conservative mistakenly think Rudy is pro-life just because he is Republican. Once made aware that he is not, he will not get far with the Republican party.

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Rudy's cousins and the 9/11 aftermath
Posted by: DennisDalrymple on Mar 1, 2007 10:18 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Can you imagine the result if Rudy and his first wife (also his second kissin' cousin) had had children? They would be Rudy's cousins too; and he may very well be his own cousin.

Frivolity aside, a bigger blackeye to Rudy may very well be his actions in the wake of 9/11 as Mayor of New York. There's probably a law against tampering with evidence that was not enforced against Rudy, who was also a former Federal Prosecutor and should have known better. As quickly as possible after 9/11, the Mayor ordered the clean up of the crime scene of all evidence. The steel girders surviving the fallen buildings were shipped across the Hudson River to New Jersey and later shipped to China as scrap metal. The rest of the "rubble" was taken to the dump in Staten Island, which included thousands and thousands of body parts of the victims. This of course prevented the completion of the crime scene investigation (I would like to see this all on CSI), the reasons for the unexplained rapid collapse of several buildings (was it just the planes or an explosion too), not to mention reclamation of the body parts of almost 1,000 victims. This deed was either in the interests of the real estate industry or part of a coverup (inadvertently or not) to the biggest crime so far in the 21st Century, if you discount the criminal activity by the US in Iraq. Instead of a badge of heroism and the reward of the presidency, there should be criminal investigation of Rudy Guilianni. As Ricky Ricardo might have said: "You've got a lot of splainin' to do."

DD
New York City

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via a press conference.
Posted by: Iconoclast421 on Mar 1, 2007 11:44 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"He then informed his wife that he was leaving her -- via a press conference."

youtube link? herro?

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TLV
Posted by: tlv on Mar 1, 2007 11:56 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Check this out. The BBC announced on 9/11 that the Saloman Building, better known as Building 7, had collapsed a full 23 minutes BEFORE it happened! The BBC now says they have lost all of their recordings of the coverage on 9/11! All of them. Uh, huh.

Aaron Brown also announced it too early on CNN.

Bookmark this quick, my friends. Someone is making the video disappear almost as soon as it is posted.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lW_JRe67v1g

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PRESIDENT RUDY GUILIANI - SAY IT ISN'T SO
Posted by: VZEQICVA on Mar 1, 2007 12:14 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If Rudy Guiliani wrote his autobiography it would be banned in most NYC schools. None of the rules apply to him. In Rudy's life there are no consequences for bad decisions and poor judgement. Sound familiar? We've had six years of it. A president whose agenda has nothing to do with the people. We don't matter. And no more 9/11. Nobody HANDLED 9/11. If they had it would have been prevented. He bailed on his police and firemen. Shame on Rudy. Thank,s ANNA

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I'm sure...
Posted by: JoshuaLudd on Mar 1, 2007 12:45 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm sure at some point he'll find some organization he thinks is "anti-catholic" (funny words from a man who committed a whole host of mortal sins.. cheated on his wife, divorced her, then married his mistress) and prompty try to, outside of his authority, cut funding for it.

It'll probably turn out to be an organization that is actually quite friendly to Catholicism, of course.

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Nobody has a monopoly on tribal politics
Posted by: gerdhansel on Mar 1, 2007 1:28 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Cultural conservatives don’t have a monopoly on tribal politics. Let’s face it: we all congregate in tribes, starting with playground teasing and high school cliques. We all play the “one-of-us” and “others” game.

Progressives have their own WHO-WE-HATE list, which includes:

Southern white males: even Bill Clinton had to establish his progressive bona fides by marrying a Chicago feminist and dodging the draft.

Evangelical Christians: Jimmy Carter had to balance his suspect faith with McGovern-style liberalism.

Practicing Catholics: People like Teddy Kennedy and John Kerry have to embrace their inner hypocrite to be taken seriously by many Progressives.

Conservative blacks: Most hated of all, because they’re considered “traitors to their own kind,” accused of being Uncle Toms, Oreos and worse. She may be a terrible Secretary of State, but how do many Progressives go after Condi Rice? Try ugly and baseless speculation about her sex life, ala Stephanie Miller.

Soldiers: Vietnam veteran John Kerry trashed his fellow warriors before a Senate sub-committee so he could run for Congress in Massachusetts. If you believe Iraq and Vietnam were wrong, as I do, don’t take your frustration out on the soldiers who must do what they’re told and who suffer more in war than most of us can imagine. Blame the greedy fools like Johnson, Nixon and King Shrub who sent them into combat.

Don’t be fooled by the “all-volunteer” lie. I was one of many working-class kids who enlisted in the early 1970s because it was the only way I could afford to go to college. We were economic conscripts then, and so are today’s soldiers.

Tolerance is a funny thing. If you only tolerate those who agree with you, but despise those outside your tribe, where is the tolerance? Tolerance is about the patient enduring of people we find hard to tolerate. That’s why we call it tolerance.

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Worst President Ever?
Posted by: polyquat50 on Mar 1, 2007 2:04 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Based on the USA's track record over the last few decades of electing ever-worse presidents, sounds like Guiliano is a shoe-in.

The candidate most likely to be a worse president than George W.

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» RE: Worst President Ever? Posted by: VZEQICVA
That NYC Guy Who Is Not Really an NYC Guy At All!
Posted by: sofla100 on Mar 1, 2007 4:47 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Look, Rudy is going to be re-packaged and spruced up before he really hits the "big-time." This is a job in progress. Rudy is going to do some flip-flopping to appeal to the Repubs., ultimately his strongest defense will be, "I did what I did in the past to appeal to the masses in NYC, but what I really think and feel is not that at all." In other words, I really am against abortion and gays, etc., but couldn't say so because NYC would never have elected me. So, Rudy will be that NYC guy who even though he had to deal with the liberal "devils" in NYC, he gave them Mr. Tough Guy on criminals, made the teachers and city employee unions buckle, and while a befuddled simpleton of a President read "My Pet Goat," he was the "in charge" guy, saving the day for NYC and America. Therefore, I think Rudy will be a formidable candidate, unfortunately. Of course, Dems will point out he is nothing but a hypocrite, but the political standard these days is so low, the only thing that will matter is that background reference of how he saved American honor and prestige on 911, and ultimately gave light to the millions of liberal heathen. The NYC guy who is not really an NYC guy at all.

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