COMMENTS: 197
Private Health Insurance Is Not the Answer
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Ideas for dealing with the 46 million Americans without medical insurance seem to be popping up faster than new cases of the winter flu. President Bush proposes to use tax deductions to help people buy individual plans. California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger wants to make it mandatory for everyone in his state to obtain insurance and would force employers who don't provide coverage to pay into a fund.
Democratic Presidential candidate John Edwards would raise taxes on the affluent to pay for subsidies to help those with low incomes obtain policies. Some members of Congress are promoting insurance purchasing pools for small businesses. An odd bedfellows coalition including the Business Roundtable, AARP, the Service Employees International Union and Wal-Mart is pushing for some kind of expansion of coverage but is not saying what form it should take.
What these varied plans have in common is the assumption that, at least for the foreseeable future, most of the working population (and their dependents) will continue to receive coverage through private insurance carriers. Public officials across the political spectrum are, in effect, seeking to expand the customer base for a highly profitable industry.
Surely, it is a good thing to provide coverage to the uninsured, but it is remarkable that almost everyone assumes that coverage has to come from for-profit (or, in some cases, private non-profit) providers. Despite the overwhelming evidence from other industrial countries -- and even domestic programs such as Medicare -- that government-run health plans are much more efficient, the U.S. political class seems to be on a mission to save private insurance.
A Paternalistic Reform?
To understand the current debate, it is helpful to recall some of the tortured history of health insurance in the United States. In the late 19th Century European countries began adopting government-funded social insurance plans, but the U.S. failed to follow suit. When progressives made a push in the 1910s there was opposition not only from corporate interests but also from organized labor. AFL President Samuel Gompers denounced national health insurance as a paternalistic reform, fearing that its adoption would weaken the role of unions in improving the living conditions of workers.
Consequently, Americans both rich and poor continued to pay the vast majority of medical costs out of pocket. That began to change in the 1930s. While the Roosevelt Administration focused on retirement benefits and unemployment insurance at the expense of health coverage, physicians and hospitals struggling to survive the Depression set up private group insurance plans to bolster demand for their services. The most successful of these were the non-profit multi-hospital plans that grew under the rubric of Blue Cross. These were later followed by Blue Shield plans, which covered outpatient physician services. Once the Blues paved the way, commercial insurers also entered the field, though their coverage tended to be more restricted.
After the end of World War II, there was great momentum toward expanding the portion of the population with some form of sickness insurance. In 1945 President Harry Truman proposed a national program establishing a right to medical care and protection from the "economic fears" of illness. But once again, opposition to government involvement in healthcare emerged, this time reinforced by a Cold War hysteria about "socialized medicine" stoked by groups such as the American Medical Association.
As Truman's plan went down to defeat, what grew in its place was a system of employer-provided coverage, stimulated by aggressive bargaining on the part of unions that had come to regard improving employee benefits as a mission as important as increasing wages. This put pressure on non-union employers to follow suit, and by the mid-1950s, about two-thirds of the country was getting coverage through either their own jobs or those of spouses or parents. The Blues, which held the largest share of this booming market in the early postwar period, began to fall behind the commercial carriers by the late 1950s.
Around that same time, there was growing concern about the large number of retired workers who were left out of this workplace-oriented system. This eventually led to the 1965 creation of the federal Medicare program for seniors, along with the federal-state Medicaid program for the poor, but most of those with insurance continued to get it from the private sector.
In the wake of these significant expansions of coverage, liberals renewed calls for comprehensive national health insurance. These efforts, however, were drowned out by a rising chorus of concern about escalating health costs -- a problem that was greatly exacerbated by the growth of for-profit hospital chains. During the 1980s, Congress created a cost-control system for Medicare, while growing numbers of employers transferred their workers from traditional plans into health maintenance organizations (HMOs) -- both non-profit and for-profit. The Clinton Administration tried to reach the goal of universal coverage through a complex system that preserved the role of HMOs and other private insurers, but it was crushed by business interests and the medical establishment.
Awash In cash
The failure once again to create a system of universal care left the American people at the mercy of the market. The ranks of the uninsured swelled as many employers solved their health finance problems by eliminating coverage or by shifting premium and co-payment costs to workers to such an extent that they opted out. Many of those who tried to obtain individual coverage found themselves priced out of the market or rejected because of a pre-existing condition. Those workers who retained workplace coverage increasingly had to confront HMOs and other purveyors of "managed care," whose business plan depended on restricting the use of medical services. A 1994 Wall Street Journal article stated: "Health maintenance organizations are all about penny pinching, yet they are so awash in cash that they don't know what to do with it all."
At the forefront of these service (non)providers was U.S. Healthcare, which grew out of the first for-profit HMOs in the 1970s. By the early 1990s, it was the largest publicly traded HMO, with annual revenues of more than $1 billion. The company -- a notorious proponent of gag clauses in physician contracts that prevented doctors from giving patients a thorough description of their treatment options -- took on the mission of revolutionizing the insurance industry. In a 1992 interview with Business Week , U.S. Healthcare founder and chairman Leonard Abramson expressed scorn for traditional carriers, calling them "dinosaurs" and saying they operated in "a dying world."
Four years later, U.S. Healthcare agreed to be acquired by one of those dinosaurs, Aetna Inc., for $9 billion. It was clear from the start that Aetna was going to be adopting the style of U.S. Healthcare and not vice versa. "Strong forms of managed care, gated managed care, is really coming into its own," said Aetna chief executive Ronald Compton, who also announced that Abramson would join the board of the parent company.
Aetna's marriage with U.S. Healthcare was part of a larger consolidation of the industry and a shrinkage of the non-profit portion. Aetna itself went on to acquire healthcare operations from New York Life and Prudential Insurance, while rivals such as United Healthcare (later UnitedHealth Group) also bought various competitors to rise rapidly in the field. For-profit hospital chains such as Columbia-HCA gobbled up insurers. Even the Blues were abandoning all pretenses that their main mission was to serve the community. Some set up their own HMO subsidiaries, and by the late 1990s a bunch were preparing to take the next step: abandoning their non-profit status and becoming for-profit enterprises. A few such as Anthem Inc., formerly Blue Cross and Blue Shield of Indiana, went yet further, becoming publicly traded companies.
Meanwhile, there was a growing effort to tame HMOs through the courts. In 1999 several of the country's leading trial lawyers announced plans to bring a wave of racketeering lawsuits to pressure companies to provide better coverage. Some physician groups also sued managed-care firms over restrictions on their members. The legal assault was counting on the fact that HMOs had become the most reviled industry in the United States, but the judiciary was a harder sell.
In 2002 a federal judge in Miami hearing the consolidated cases granted class-action status to claims that managed-care plans systematically denied and delayed payments to more than 600,000 doctors, but he rejected that status on behalf of some 145 million members of the plans. Five companies ended up paying nearly $650 million in settlements with the doctors and their lawyers, while two others (including UnitedHealth) went to court and had the charges against them dismissed.
What ails private insurance
These lawsuits may have shaken the industry somewhat, but they did not put an end to the abuses that characterize managed care. Here are some of the key remaining issues that surround the business:
Consolidation has continued unabated. There are now two superproviders that increasingly dominate the for-profit healthcare field. One is UnitedHealth, which capped a long series of acquisitions with the 2005 purchase of Pacificare for some $8 billion. In 2006 United's health services revenues reached an astounding $64 billion, and its medical enrollment rose to about 28 million individuals.
The other giant is Wellpoint Inc., created through the blockbuster 2004 merger of Anthem Inc. and Wellpoint Health Network, formerly Blue Cross of California. Wellpoint later spent $6.5 billion to acquire WellChoice, the publicly traded parent of New York's Empire Blue Cross Blue Shield. By 2006 Wellpoint controlled the Blues in 14 states, had some 34 million members and took in annual revenues of about $52 billion.
The second tier consists of Aetna (2006 revenues and members, respectively: $25 billion and 15 million), Humana ($21 billion and 11 million), Cigna ($16 billion and 9 million) and Health Net ($13 billion and 7 million). The non-profit wing of the industry also has big players, led by Kaiser Permanente with 8.6 million members.
There is no evidence that the consolidation has enhanced efficiency or improved the quality of coverage. Instead, the big carriers simply accumulate more power over healthcare providers and patients, using it to their own advantage.
While millions remain uninsured or underinsured, the industry's profits swell. Last year, the top six health insurance companies had combined profits of more than $10 billion. What's amazing is that they netted so much after spending prodigious amounts on marketing and administration. In 2006 Wellpoint alone burned up nearly $9 billion in such costs -- nearly one quarter of what it paid out in actual benefits. By contrast, in Canada's government-run single-payer system, administration accounts for only about 3 percent of total costs.
Legal controversies continue to plague the industry. Lawsuits over the denial of care are still being filed against the big insurers. For example, two hospitals in Queens, NY recently sued UnitedHealth, alleging a "pattern of racketeering activity." At the same time, UnitedHealth has been the subject of a federal investigation following reports last year that the company was routinely backdating stock options awarded to executives, especially long-time chief executive William McGuire, who -- on top of annual salary and bonuses totaling $10 million -- had accumulated some 29 million shares through option awards. Thanks to the backdating scheme, McGuire had racked up paper gains of more than $1 billion on those shares. In October McGuire was forced to resign and to give up an undisclosed portion of those gains.
McGuire's excesses are emblematic of the fundamental conflict in the industry -- the clash between maximizing gains for executives and shareholders, and the need of its customers for services that are often a matter of life and death. Public officials should abandon the mission of saving commercial insurance and devote themselves instead to creating a healthcare system that substitutes the public interest for private profit.
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Comments are closed-
Posted by: aethr on Feb 23, 2007 12:15 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Isn't if fairly obvious that a business that profits by refusing to provide the services it is paid for can't possibly function properly in a market-based environment? Isn't insurance, by its very nature, inherently socialistic?
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» RE: A non-marketable commodity
Posted by: mindcryme
» RE: A non-marketable commodity
Posted by: Trazom
» RE: A non-marketable commodity-HUMAN FLESH AND SOULS ARE NOT COMMODITIES
Posted by: drricklippin
» COMMODIFIED America
Posted by: Cathyc
» RE: COMMODIFIED America
Posted by: drricklippin
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Temporary on Feb 23, 2007 12:19 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: No way to go!
Posted by: mindcryme
» RE: No way to go!
Posted by: Blix
» RE: No way to go! COST CONTROL IS INDEED NECESSARY
Posted by: drricklippin
» RE: No way to go! COST CONTROL IS INDEED NECESSARY
Posted by: JessB
» RE: No way to go! COST CONTROL IS INDEED NECESSARY
Posted by: drricklippin
» RE: This will only work if we reduce the quality of care...
Posted by: EagleMB
» RE: This will only work if we reduce the quality of care...
Posted by: babs
» RE: This will only work if we reduce the quality of care...
Posted by: EagleMB
» The Eagle is not that well grounded
Posted by: famouspipeliner
» RE: The Eagle is not that well grounded
Posted by: EagleMB
» I have a dream
Posted by: famouspipeliner
» RE: I have a dream
Posted by: EagleMB
» and then I woke up
Posted by: famouspipeliner
» RE: and then I woke up
Posted by: dkm
» RE: and then I woke up
Posted by: EagleMB
» RE: and then I woke up
Posted by: EagleMB
» RE: The Eagle is not that well grounded
Posted by: BriMan
» RE: The Eagle is not that well grounded
Posted by: EagleMB
» RE: The Eagle is not that well grounded - my baseless reply
Posted by: BriMan
» RE: The Eagle is not that well grounded - Reply 1 of 2
Posted by: EagleMB
» RE: The Eagle is not that well grounded - reply 2 of 2
Posted by: EagleMB
» Schumacher
Posted by: famouspipeliner
» RE: Schumacher
Posted by: EagleMB
» RE: The Eagle is not that well grounded - rebuttal
Posted by: BriMan
» RE: The Eagle is not that well grounded - rebuttal - Reply 1 of 2
Posted by: EagleMB
» RE: The Eagle is not that well grounded - rebuttal - Reply 2 of 2
Posted by: EagleMB
» RE: The Eagle is not that well grounded - rebuttal - Reply 2 of 2
Posted by: mjabele
» RE: The Eagle is not that well grounded - rebuttal - Reply 2 of 2
Posted by: EagleMB
» RE: The Eagle is not that well grounded
Posted by: mjabele
» RE: The Eagle is not that well grounded
Posted by: EagleMB
» We need more than just "innovation"...
Posted by: mjabele
» RE: We need more than just "innovation"...
Posted by: EagleMB
» We need more than just "innovation"...Part 2
Posted by: mjabele
» RE: We need more than just "innovation"...Part 2
Posted by: EagleMB
» Actuall, and in spite of it all, I had to laugh at this post.
Posted by: ABetterFuture
» White baby boomers??
Posted by: imntacrook
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Posted by: mindcryme on Feb 23, 2007 1:09 AM
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So the solution to this problem is simple.
What drives the insurers? Money.
How do you motivate them to go away? Money.
You want to pass healthcare reform, maybe go to a socialist universal care system managed by the government?
Simply offer the private insurance companies and HMOs cold, hard, cash; a present value of their future cash flows and they'll walk, just like any business man. They're fairly simple to understand. They don't have an ideaology, or anything so complex. They'll take fair value for their future earnings and they'll exit the business.
Once they release their grip on the Senate, health care reform will pass over night.
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» That's true
Posted by: Bobsays
» RE: A Simple(r) Plan
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: A Simple(r) Plan
Posted by: aethr
» RE: A Simple(r) Plan
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: A Simple Plan
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: A Simple Plan
Posted by: Lincoln fan
Comments are closed-
Posted by: jyongue@iag.net on Feb 23, 2007 4:11 AM
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1. Coverage needs to be provided by the same source over the life of the individual.
2. Agents commission should be counted in the profits of insurance companies.
3. The failure of private insurance companies to provide the required product should be recognized and the federal government take over. Socialized Medicine may sound bad to some, but lables should not determing our course.
4. Recent results with property insurance and global warming modified hurricanes indicate that it may have the same problem as health insurance.
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» yep, and aethr was nearly right...
Posted by: andyc
» RE: yep, and aethr was nearly right...
Posted by: Trazom
» OK, not a flat tax:
Posted by: andyc
» regulation
Posted by: andyc
» RE: oot of the Problem
Posted by: Lauren
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Bobsays on Feb 23, 2007 4:58 AM
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Fully publicly funded is dead and it is the groaning weight of the baby boomers that is killing it. If they would only eat right, exercise, and live healthy lifestyles, they wouldn't need all this extra surgery and pills. I see it every day - and it is a HUGE waste.
Stop being so damn selfish and pull your socks up!
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» Government Still Runs the Show, Who is in Charge is What Counts!
Posted by: sofla100
» RE: Only problem is: Canada/UK become more private by the day
Posted by: Trazom
» RE: Only problem is: Canada/UK become more private by the day
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: Only problem is: Canada/UK become more private by the day
Posted by: nise52
» RE: Only problem is: Canada/UK become more private by the day
Posted by: LeeAnnG
» RE: Only problem is: Canada/UK become more private by the day
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» famouspipelinersays
Posted by: famouspipeliner
» RE: Canada/UK cover all their citizens the US is 46 million short
Posted by: Jersey Devil
» RE: Canada/UK cover all their citizens the US is 46 million short
Posted by: mwildfire
» RE: Canada/UK cover all their citizens the US is 46 million short
Posted by: aethr
» RE: Canada/UK cover all their citizens the US is 46 million short
Posted by: Jethro2112
» RE: Only problem is: Canada/UK become more private by the day
Posted by: paschn
Comments are closed-
Posted by: allUneedislove on Feb 23, 2007 5:17 AM
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Even the ALTERNATE press has completely ignored this man and his message. I know Democrats who have still never heard of him, even after his prior presidential candidacy.
Shame, Shame! Once again, the people are fed what someone wants them to eat.
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» RE: Dennis Kucinich is saying these things
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: Dennis Kucinich is saying these things
Posted by: imntacrook
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Posted by: disenfranchised on Feb 23, 2007 5:19 AM
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Does anyone really think that the Insurance corporations will treat your health any differently from the way that they have dealt with storm and flood damage srought by natural disasters? Just look at what they have done to the Hurricane victims.
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Posted by: bomec on Feb 23, 2007 5:25 AM
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» This US system of providing health care is truly nuts at it core...
Posted by: Cathyc
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Posted by: drricklippin on Feb 23, 2007 5:37 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
IT IS FEAR OF "RAPID-RADICAL" CHANGE THAT IS SCARING POLITICIANS. Putting aside very hefty campaign contributions by our "disease care" industry the pols fear severe US economic dislocations if they try to change a $2 trillion dollar plus system too quickly.
Hence, regrettably. incrementalism rules the present day
I am for H.R.676 (Conyers/Kucinich etc-"Medicare for All") but the bill needs to be modified to include individual and institutional prevention.
Because I do agree our "disesase care system" is not economically sustainable long term
Dr. Rick Lippin
http://medicalcrises.blogspot.com
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» I read your blog, Dr.
Posted by: henderson
» RE: I read your blog, Dr.THANKS HENDERSON
Posted by: drricklippin
» Clean air, water and food....
Posted by: Cathyc
» RE: Clean air, water and food....??????
Posted by: drricklippin
» RE: FEAR OF "RAPID-RADICAL" CHANGE IS SCARING POLITICIANS
Posted by: rvirchow
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Posted by: spencerh on Feb 23, 2007 5:44 AM
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- markets don't solve everything
- "every person for themselves" has no place in a modern country. We're not an anarcho-capitalist country.
- government needs to be made small enough to drown in a bathtub
- government involvement equals socialism/communism
we're just going to continue to run into the same exact barriers, the same exact arguments, and the same exact inertia for every single issue involving government management. Completely free public higher education? Universal, single-payer healthcare? A real social safety net so that people don't feel like losing a job means that they're going to be out on the street? These arguments run counter to the fundamental ideas the MFR has:
- Good social safety nets makes people lazy, and that means people won't work.
- Nature is a "dog-eat-dog world", so too should human society.
- Helping people equals weakness.
- Government is bad. It just is (the Bush administration is making this argument easier for them to make every day).
Social Democracies in Europe haven't imploded. Look at happiness indexes and human rights records of countries like the Netherlands, (modern) Spain, and the Nordic countries.
Shift the Overton Window not on various specific issues, but on the fundamental ideas of the MFR, and progress will be so much easier. Until then, we'll continue to beat our heads against these entrenched ideas, which they don't have to do *any work to defend*, because they're so widely accepted.
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» Free Marketeers
Posted by: eddie torres
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Posted by: Moonray on Feb 23, 2007 5:49 AM
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Alarmingly, now some states are making health insurance mandatory, like automobile insurance. This will only drive insurance rates -- and profits -- through the roof.
Insurance is largely an extortion scheme and we should put a stop to 90 percent of it. We need a single-payer health system and we need to get rid of state-required auto insurance, which is just a gravy train for the insurance companies. States should establish their own insurance systems and cap pain-and-suffering awards.
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» Insurance is Extortion
Posted by: Cathyc
» RE: Leading Democratic candidates lack courage on this issue
Posted by: MartianBachelor
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Posted by: ProgressiveManiac on Feb 23, 2007 6:23 AM
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The root of both of these problems lies with the system that depends on private, for profit insurance to pay for our health care. Nearly a third of every dollar that is paid for health care in this country goes instead to paperwork and profits of these private health insurance companies.
The best solution to this problem is to remove these insurance companies from the picture and the experience of the rest of the world seems to indicate that the best way to do this is by replacing the insurance companies with a single payer in which the government steps in to play the role of a non-profit insurance company.
Unfortunately, in this country this solution has been difficult to achieve. Many people seem to feel that this is a step towards Socialism that has to be avoided no matter what it costs in lives.
The point I want to raise for discussion is that there may be another solution. Suppose a non-profit insurance company could somehow be established that is separate from the government. Then the non-profit company would have to cover costs but would not need to show profits. This could allow that foundation to offer health insurance at a cost that would be much lower than the profit-making firms.
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» RE: The Problems with Our Health Care System
Posted by: imntacrook
» RE: The Problems with Our Health Care System
Posted by: ProgressiveManiac
» Yes, but you don't have a Government...
Posted by: Cathyc
» RE: The Problems with Our Health Care System
Posted by: cupera1
» No govt ever?? America (and its Allies) are not W. EUROPE!!!
Posted by: Cathyc
» RE: The Problems with Our Health Care System
Posted by: ProgressiveManiac
» Half the Problem with Our Health Care System
Posted by: dkm
» RE: Half the Problem with Our Health Care System
Posted by: ProgressiveManiac
Comments are closed-
Posted by: lb on Feb 23, 2007 6:34 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The insurance companies have to go. Medicare has shown time and again that they are the most cost effective health care delivery system in our country. Medicare could be "state of the art" if they had the money that now goes to the insurance companies.
And then we can go after Big Pharma.
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» RE: The Cure will have to be drastic
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: The Cure will have to be drastic they only own what you give them
Posted by: solrev
» RE: The Cure will have to be drastic they only own what you give them
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE:Nice web site.
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: The Cure will have to be drastic
Posted by: Old Skeptic
Comments are closed-
Posted by: ABetterFuture on Feb 23, 2007 6:55 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Because 85% of the people in the country are covered under some form of health care in this country, and because we are inherently distrustful of our policymakers.
Let's let our Congresscritters figure out something easy, like balancing the national checkbook which only involves adding and subtracting, before we turn them loose on heart valves, HIV drugs, and emerging diseases. I mean, have you heard some of the intelligent things these folks have been saying lately? And you want them in charge of rationing your burn therapy?
In the meantime, I certainly wouldn't be opposed to expanding matching medicaid dollars to all the states to cover children and those who are not able to provide for themselves. Finding a way to extend health coverage to the portion 15% of the populace who can't get it on their own should not involve completely scrapping the excellent health care that the majority of us enjoy.
We don't need a 100% different direction to fix a 15% problem.
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» Coverage and Cost
Posted by: eddie torres
» You've fairly described a problem.
Posted by: ABetterFuture
» Public Resources vs Luxury of "Choice"
Posted by: eddie torres
» All good points.
Posted by: ABetterFuture
» Back to the Future
Posted by: eddie torres
» RE: There's an easy answer for your question, but you aren't going to like it.
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: There's an easy answer for your question, but you aren't going to like it.
Posted by: ABetterFuture
» RE: There's an easy answer for your question, but you aren't going to like it.
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: There's an easy answer for your question, but you aren't going to like it.
Posted by: mwildfire
» You could be a Fox News anal...
Posted by: ABetterFuture
» Even for those who are insured, is it really "top-tier" health care...?
Posted by: mjabele
Comments are closed-
Posted by: antiapathy on Feb 23, 2007 6:58 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
what ever happened to providing positive rights? health care, education, the right to unionize? all of these are under attack by the government. there are precious few members of Congress who have the backbone to stand up for our rights, and I continue to be amazed that the majority of corrupt politicians are rewarded for their betrayal with reelection.
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» Wake up people, you're now living under a TOTALITARIAN system!
Posted by: Cathyc
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Posted by: Lincoln fan on Feb 23, 2007 7:01 AM
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If you will click on open secrets you will see the answer. The 2004 campaign contributions of the Finance, Insurance, and Real Estate industries totalled $338 million. Roughly 60% to the Republicans and 40% to the Democrats. How's that for hedging your bets.
No matter who loses the election the corporate establishment wins. No matter who wins the election the voters lose.
Bob Reichenbach,
Director, The Lincoln Initiative.
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» Correction - Sorry
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: Correction - Sorry THANKS BOB!
Posted by: drricklippin
» RE: I know why. Do you? IT'S ALL CYCLICAL
Posted by: drricklippin
» RE: I know why. Do you?
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: I know why. Do you?
Posted by: drricklippin
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Posted by: sofla100 on Feb 23, 2007 7:02 AM
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» Right On!
Posted by: Lincoln fan
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Posted by: sausage on Feb 23, 2007 8:13 AM
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As I understand these corporate-giveaway programs, every citizen of any given state is required under law to have health insurance provided either by his employer or through a private, out-of-pocket, plan. Now, again as I understand it, if an individual does not have recourse to either of the above options, then the state, at taxpayer expense, will subsidize the cost of her health care insurance premiums.
Of course these wonderful plans always are couched the in language of "personal responsibility" and the "free market;" the premise being that the individual citizen will always make the "right" decission in choosing his or her health care provider. Of course from the fiasco that is the Medicare Prescription Drug Benefit Plan, a major sop to the nation's insurance and pharmaceutical companies, we can see that letting the individual choose his own plan is confusing, often contradictory and just plain doesn't work. (Yes, yes, a Google search yeilds glowing reports, but from conversations I've had with folks on Medicare D, it ain't so.)
When given nothing but bad choices, one will only end up with bad results. If health insurance company A's plan is horse shit, company B's chicken shit, company C's bull shit, they may all look and smell differently but they are all, at the basest level, still just plain shit.
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» RE: "Personal responsibility"+"free market"=a bunch of BS
Posted by: Lincoln fan
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Posted by: willymack on Feb 23, 2007 8:14 AM
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Posted by: imntacrook on Feb 23, 2007 9:01 AM
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Naturally no one can afford health insurance with people like John Edwards suing doctors. Hell the doctors can't even afford it.
My advice - don't buy insurance and when you need to call 911. - ITS FREE!!
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» You are so wrong
Posted by: sausage
» RE: Health Care is FREE in the USA!
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: Health Care is FREE in the USA!
Posted by: aethr
» RE: Health Care is FREE in the USA!
Posted by: Tatarize
» Prove me wrong, no problem
Posted by: dkm
» RE: Prove me wrong, no problem
Posted by: EagleMB
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Posted by: NoPCZone on Feb 23, 2007 9:09 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Many of the jobs that require significant education, continuing education and certification in the US pay scandalously low wages relative to the education and skills that they require. The result is that many working in healthcare cannot afford to use the very services that they provide to others. In the meantime, drug and equipment reps that never touch a patient and hold minimal to no education beyond a business degree commonly make 6-figure incomes loaded with perks.
If nations that provide quality care AND pay their staffs proper wages while covering all people do so at HALF the US expenditure rate, the symptoms say that our system is terribly corrupted, inefficient and ineffective. What the US is getting could be likened to buying a luxury car that doesn't run 1/5th- 1/6th of the time to a mainstream car that costs half as much with all of the same features and runs reliably every day. Otherwise, an intolerable mess.
Let me bust a myth for you. FOR ALMOST EVERYONE, THERE IS NO FREE MARKET FOR HEALTHCARE INSURANCE OR DELIVERY IN THE UNITED STATES. Let that soak in and commit it to memory the next time some pundit or politician starts spouting free market bullsh*t concerning healthcare. Your employer picks what insurance is available (no choice). Your insurer has negotiated a PPO arrangement without your input or consent (no choice) and has determined what will be covered and how it will be offered- all or nothing (no choice). In most of the US, the insurer has little choice but to arrange for a PPO with the only hospital (or system) that is the only or dominant provider in your local market (no choice). Most hospitals have been driven be economics into supplier lock-ins for equipment and supply purchases (no choice). More of the same goes on throughout the chain of supply , delivery and accounting. Your only 'choice' is to take it or leave it. Not even the slightest similarity to the open and competitive markets described by Adam Smith.
There is little to no competition on the provider side. States regulate the establishment of clinics, care facilities an hospitals with certificates of need. Needless to say, the process is a lawyer feast full of politics, money and influence peddling. The bottom line- those already in the business do not want anyone else in and fight among themselves for pie slices like an oligarchy.
In the end you are offered a crappy product that is overpriced, provides little choice and has been designed from the bottom up to maximize the profits of the insurers, employers, hospital chains, pharmacy and medical equipment companies and executives at the expense of everyone else. What regulation exists is fractive and has largely ben 'captured' by representatives of the very people and institutions it was designed to regulate. You are told what you will pay, under what terms, who you can see, when you can see them, and at what facility-- all subject to pre-approval, second guessing and hindsight by the insurance company.
That's not a free market or even a regulated free market. The terms CARTEL and OLIGARCHY come to mind.
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» See also: Monopsony
Posted by: eddie torres
» RE: See also: Monopsony
Posted by: EagleMB
» Neocon talking points
Posted by: dkm
» RE: Neocon talking points
Posted by: EagleMB
» RE: See also: Monopsony
Posted by: mjabele
» RE: See also: Monopsony
Posted by: EagleMB
» Many employers don't offer health care
Posted by: harpy
» RE: Many employers don't offer health care-EMPLOYERS SHOUDN'T BE TRUSTED WITH HEALTH CARE
Posted by: drricklippin
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Posted by: earthwater on Feb 23, 2007 9:59 AM
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» RE: Sure, the insurance companies are greedy and heartless, butTOO LITTLE-TOO LATE
Posted by: drricklippin
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Posted by: dayahka on Feb 23, 2007 10:57 AM
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This is the only workable system, with a role for government and the market.
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» RE: Two Levels of healthcare needed
Posted by: NoPCZone
» RE: Two Levels of healthcare needed
Posted by: aethr
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Posted by: djnoll on Feb 23, 2007 12:00 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
1) Did you know that the determination of how long a person needs to recover from any illness in a hospital facility is based on how long it takes a normally healthy 35-year old man in good physical condition to recover? God help you if you are an 83 year old man in poor health or a small child weakened by high fever!
2) Decisions are no longer made on the course of treatment or care by your personal physicians who have an acute knowledge of your medical history or care. They are made by nurses and paraprofessionals thousands of miles away who have not even seen you or have any personal knowledge of your situation. They use doctors in consultation on insurance company payrolls to help them make their decisions, and not necessarily even doctors who specialize in your particular problems.
3) Medicare and Medicaid are some of the worst managed health care systems in the world. They often pay far below the charges, leaving clients with huge medical bills unless they carry supplemental insurance, and they often pay very late. Most reputable doctors will not longer treat patients on Medicare or Medicaid, or if they do, you may have to wait as long as 6 months to a year for an appointment.
4) The quality of care provided to patients by doctors and hospitals is so abysmal that it is dangerous to even enter their care for fear of your life. Death due to doctor or hospital error has been rising steadily, the last I read, for over 20 years now and could be considered of epidemic proportions, if it were ever made public.
5) When you discuss insurance, do not forget the AMA and its desire to protect itself and its members from complicity in this debacle. Doctors will work for insurance companies, Medicare, Worker's Comp carriers and corporations well before they will work for the public at large. The idea of the Hypocratic Oath is a thing of the past. The first line "I will do no harm..." is long since forgotten by the medical profession that has more interest in artwork and Porsches than in helping sick people.
6) The premium we pay for insurance are far in excess of what you will ever pay out in medical bills for the average American. If every American would set up a a no-strings savings account for health expenses, not the HSA of IRS fame, and place in it what an employer would deduct for a policy payment or some portion of each paycheck around 10% maybe, they should be able to cover their average medical needs and expenses very well. This account grows with each year.
I have been uninsured for over 6 years now, and I have only been forced to run up medical bills as the result of an accident until I said stop. I have not seen a doctor for regular medical care in nearly three years, and I have found healthy alternatives to caring for my many aches and pains that are inexpensive and work. So tell your employers thanks, but no thanks, and open the health savings account for you and your family. If you do not need it, then just let it continue to grow. If people did this, then insurance companies would soon find themselves needing to reduce premiums, and change their practices or go out of business. Doctors would have to start adjusting their charges to ones that people can afford, just as many of them do now for cash customers.
Forget universal health-care and forget insurance companies. Take personal responsibility for your own health expenses, and allow the state to set up a fund to be billed for indigent care as needed. It is called sustanability, and it starts with personal responsibility.
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» How nice that you had the disposable income for the Health savings
Posted by: harpy
» RE: How nice that you had the disposable income for the Health savings
Posted by: djnoll
» How lucky you are!
Posted by: sausage
» RE: Health Insuranceis not about Health
Posted by: Jas1317
» RE: Health Insuranceis not about Health
Posted by: djnoll
» Since you are all so interested, my monthly income is $800 per month
Posted by: djnoll
» Not exactly enough to enable you to behave as an "informed consumer".....
Posted by: mjabele
» RE: Health Insuranceis not about Health
Posted by: EagleMB
» RE: Health Insuranceis not about Health
Posted by: mjabele
» RE: Health Insuranceis not about Health
Posted by: EagleMB
» RE: Health Insuranceis not about Health
Posted by: mjabele
» RE: Health Insuranceis not about Health
Posted by: EagleMB
» RE: Health Insuranceis not about Health
Posted by: mjabele
» RE: Health Insuranceis not about Health
Posted by: EagleMB
» RE: Health Insuranceis not about Health
Posted by: mjabele
» RE: Health Insuranceis not about Health
Posted by: EagleMB
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Posted by: Iconoclast421 on Feb 23, 2007 1:10 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There has to be a consensus on exactly WHY the system is broken before there can be a solution.
As long as the drug companies write our laws and brainwash our minds with endless 30 second clips telling us we need their products, we're never going to get out of paying out the ass for healthcare. In fact advertising is the principal cause of most of our healthcare woes. There is plenty of evidence to support this notion. BUT what there needs to be is overwhelming scientific consensus that says Yes advertising is what's really killing us. This can be done by pushing congress to have hearings and commissioning truly in depth studies on the relationship between a person's exposure to advertising and their overall health. Such a study needs to be well funded and have a broad number of participants. Once the data is in, the real problem with the system can be clearly highlighted for all to see. Then we can reach a concensus. And THEN we will know what to do...
In short:
Step 1: clean out the lobbyists just enough to be able to accomplish step 2!
Step 2: commission an independent scientific study on the relationships between advertising exposure and public health.
Step 3: Discuss solutions to problems revealed by the data in step 2.
Use the scientific method! Focus on things that can be measured, analyzed, and quantified. If this is not done, then the debate will go on and on, because there is no way to definatively prove that a for-profit system is better or worse than a socialized system. But that is a total red herring. It's just another game of divide and conquer. Force two sides into intractible positions and sit back and laugh as you rake in the money. That's what the corporate media does. Is it time to wise up yet? Why do you think they try so hard to dumb us down and make us shun the scientific method? Because it is the only weapon we have against 21st century tyranny.
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» there is no way to definatively prove that a for-profit system is better or worse than a socialized
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: there is no way to definatively prove that a for-profit system is better or worse than a socialized
Posted by: EagleMB
» RE: there is no way to definatively prove that a for-profit system is better or worse than a socialized
Posted by: mjabele
» RE: there is no way to definatively prove that a for-profit system is better or worse than a socialized
Posted by: EagleMB
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Posted by: Maryanne on Feb 23, 2007 3:47 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The country also needs a healthy population, therefore a need for heath care for everyone. Industry could not function if most of the country were ill with some major illness (as in days when people died of diseases that were not controlable, such as tuberculosis, etc.)
Therefore a real need exists for preventative medical care, care at time of crisis, and long term care. We are not (ot at least not suposed to be) so primitive that we send our aged and ill off on ice floes to die. But with the cuts in medicare, medicaid, minimum wages, declining value of middle class wages, etc. what options will there be in the future? and how will we handle costs of medical care?
With decreasing nuclear families and families scattered, who will be there for the ill and aged? We are already aware of a situation in which there is no one.for an elderly mid 80s)person with cancer, who must fend for self.
Personally we are "lucky" insofar as we have medical insurance (cost covered on a 50/50 basis with former employer) although this is very expensive. We are locked
into one server, but this has not stopped numerous other cmpanies from showering us with advertisements for their offerings. To say that we have received at least 50 different inducements in the past few months may be an understatement.
There is no way to compare these- some are detailed plans, some one page shiny post cards, some with tantalizing offers but no details. How can anyone sort through all this and come to an appropriate decision? How can anyone compare the offerings when these are not even spelled out? For us, with graduate degrees, all this is incomprehensible; how can someone less schooled, or aged, or ill be able to go through this and make any sense? Or a sound decision?
And think of the cost of all this advertising!
What we need is universal medical coverage, with one payer, and the freedom to choose one's own doctors and medical services. This in the long run would be far less costly than the present system, and much more fair to all.
We, the wealthiest country should be able to take care of our citizenry. There is plenty of money around. Remove the tax benefits from the extremely wealthy which would release huge amounts of money. Save on the monies transferred to the HMOs, who are the middlemen. Contributions on a sliding scale dependent upon income could also provide needed funds. The time to act is now.
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» RE: What the country needs...
Posted by: Cathyc
» RE: What the country needs...
Posted by: cinattra
» RE: What the country needs...
Posted by: imntacrook
» All I see on these blogs is a bunch of INCREDIBLY ignorant people!...
Posted by: Cathyc
» Actually, basic public health statistics prove otherwise.....nm
Posted by: mjabele
» Actually, the US donates LESS foreign aid per capita than most other industrialized nations...nm
Posted by: mjabele
» RE: What the country needs
Posted by: EagleMB
Comments are closed-
Posted by: mwildfire on Feb 23, 2007 8:59 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I spend more time on paperwork than doing anything with my clients...periodically an accountability outfit hired by Medicaid comes and pores through a selection of charts, looking to see if all the T's have been crossed and all the I's dotted, taking off points and possibly yanking back dollars if the paperwork isn't up to snuff on their checklist, which is always changing. To my knowledge they never talk to the clients to ask whether we're doing them any good, or even to check whether we're really providing the services we bill for. It's all about the paperwork.
Today I took one of those calls I hate--from someone with a drug-addicted relative who's ready to get help. I hate having to tell them their relative is basically SOL--unless they're pregnant, shooting up or preferrably both, it's a one to two month waiting list to get inpatient care. Guess what percentage of people with drug problems have any kind of insurance?
Meanwhile, people with personality disorders, and Medicaid, can visit the ER twice a week with bogus problems, wasting thousands of dollars of taxpayer money, and getting treatment because the doctors are afraid if they boot them out, they'll go make a more serious suicide gesture and the docs will be liable.
I can't wait to quit this job- I would never want to work within this system again, it's way past my bullshit tolerance.
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» RE: as a provider--
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: as a provider--
Posted by: drricklippin
» What are you doing to make the system better?
Posted by: cinattra
» RE: What are you doing to make the system better? I WRITE A BLOG SINCE DEC 05
Posted by: drricklippin
» RE: What are you doing to make the system better? I WRITE A BLOG SINCE DEC 05
Posted by: Mewsician
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Posted by: mjabele on Feb 24, 2007 7:29 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Insurance co-pays for things like office visits, medications, tests, and emergency room visits have now risen to the point where patients are making the - in most cases poorly informed, or completely UNinformed - decision to avoid seeing the doctor or having tests done in order to save money. Medications are not infrequently taken every other day or omitted altogether in order to mitigate or avoid high prescription co-pays - I now routinely call pharmacies in order to check patients' refill patterns, even when they tell me they're taking something I've prescribed, because I know they're often too embarassed to admit to me that expense is an obstacle for them. People with symptoms that obviously require emergency room care - anginal-type chest pain, or stroke symptoms - are doing silly things like having me paged so that I can listen to their symptoms and "authorize" their visit to the ER for them, so they don't get into a potential reimbursement fracas with their insurance company afterward.
From the provider angle, the fact that physicians have for the most part become employees of insurance companies or hospitals means that "productivity" has become the dominant paradigm in terms of scheduling and orchestrating patient visits. I'm fortunate as an internist in my current position at a community health center in being allowed 15 minutes for office visits; even so, I'm expected to routinely "double-book" patients during the course of my working day in order to maximize the number of appointments seen, meaning that a number of patients who come to me expecting 15 minutes of my time are really only "entitled" to 7.5 minutes. And, given that a good deal of the appointment time is necessarily given over to writing prescriptions and deciding what tests the patient may need, it's actually even less than that. My colleagues in private practice are sometimes often given only 10-minute slots, meaning that "double-booking" for them implies 5-minute slots for many patients. The brevity of these encounters inevitably has an effect on the quality of care delivered. Patients often don't have time to tell their doctors what ails them, and doctors often don't have time to take an accurate diagnostic history, let alone perform even a limited physical exam. I've had patients in the office who haven't had a stethoscope laid on them for years by their previous providers, and turned out to have things like critical carotid artery blockages or heart valve dysfunction when finally examined. Say what you like, this is not "top-tier" health care - and it's becoming MORE common, not less.
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» RE: Even for those who are insured, is it really "top-tier" health care - cont.
Posted by: mjabele
» RE: ven for those who are insured, is it really "top-tier" health care - cont.
Posted by: richholland
» RE: ven for those who are insured, is it really "top-tier" health care - cont.
Posted by: richholland
Comments are closed-
Posted by: wireup on Feb 25, 2007 1:58 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's fine to bitch about it, but what the HELL are you DOING about it?
You have a large and powerful organization in the American Medical Association. And while I, as a consumer who for half a lifetime has tended to my own medical needs, often without a physician, I believe that the AMA could force needed changes if they really wanted to do so.
Want to change the climate in health care? Then do it. Don't talk about it. Do it. And don't say that you can't. Because we both know that you CAN!
I have heard physicians here and in other places bitching about the current so-called "health care system" which is rife with corruption and greed. If you truly believe what you say, why do you continue to function under it and do nothing to change it?
For god's sakes: YOU ARE THE PROVIDERS! If, as a group, you REFUSED to continue under the current system, don't you think this might lead to changes?
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Posted by: dbursch on Feb 26, 2007 8:18 AM
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I know everyone will point out how no pol will ever champion such an unpopular idea, but until at least the debate is framed to put the onus on wellness instead of disease management, nothing will ever change.
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Posted by: richholland on Feb 26, 2007 9:35 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
in the majority we changed from state insurance to a combination of basic coverage for everybody and a private choice for "luxury"
Anyway a black baby in the Bronx has less surviving chances then a baby in the jungle of Bangladesh.
By the way a dutch insurence company which makes hugh profits
will be punished by the State, .
To get a better life donot pray to the God of Big Money.
Again analyse your system and the alternatives and you will see that a combination of state and capitalisme gives the best results.
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Posted by: disc golf on Feb 27, 2007 7:57 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There is a major flaw in most arguments for universal health care and it is this: It assumes that most will be able to afford it, because the costs will be spread out far and wide, presumably through increased taxes. However, the costs are still probably 10 times what they COULD be, if much cheaper (and perhaps more effective), 'alternative therapies' were available to the public and if ONE other thing happened: This 'one other thing' is the cost reductions that would occur if Americans--ALL Americans would recognize the costs savings in taking better care of oneself. That's MY health care plan, eating right (mostly organic foods), regular juicing, herbs, supplements, exercising moderately (40-50 miles per week running, race-walking), meditating regularly, etc. These are some of the tools that have allowed me to spend no more than $600 on health care over 30 years (that expense due to the expense of two running-related injuries, a broken foot and a sprained ankle).
Sure, we could cut our 'health care' costs DRAMATICALLY, but it would require Americans, overall, to take much better care of themselves. To what extreme? Well, looking to the example of Jack LaLanne (92, on TV selling juicers--AND looking great!) Sure, he's an extreme example, but like me he also has spent practically noting on 'health care.'
Let's get serious! Taking extremely good care of yourself is the ONLY effective option to better health. For this is the ONLY way to prevent the serious diseases of our day. And if you get sick anyway, despite following a super-healthy program, conventional medicine has little to offer. For real 'cure,' you'll need to see a naturopathic physician or a holistic doctor and many procedures are, unfortunately, NOT covered by insurance (e.g., chelation therapy, the most proven way to reverse heart disease), because of corruption and the monopoly health care system that keeps many proven (and cheap) therapies, from the American public. Even naturopathic doctors (who do not use drugs in their therapy, but only natural interventions, dietary recommendations, herbal medicine, etc.) are only licensed in 22 states—due to the national medical monopoly that currently is in place.
You CAN get healthier, but it means being proactive and REALLY taking care of yourself, not hoping some universal health care will do it for you. Yeah, let's bring on universal health care, but I don't want to pay an extra $2,000 for a GM automobile, (due to astronomical 'disease care costs' because most Americans prefer to be lazy while eating junk and non-nutritious processed foods while I'm taking care of myself and having zero health-care costs), or a dramatic increase in taxes because so many Americans prefer to be 'taken care of' rather than to 'take care of themselves.' And if you believe disease might just 'happen' to anyone, you're wrong---TRULY healthy people rarely get sick. Neither do they use microwaves, get vaccinations, eat refined foods, farm-raised animal products, etc. Sure it ain't easy, but look what being complacent about our health has gotten us? Sicker and sicker. And unless the average American learns of the dangers of conventional medicine (which, by the way, kills over 500,000 Americans per year from prescription drug-related deaths, medical mistakes, death during surgery, etc.), such deaths will continue under any other ‘plan.’
Take responsibility for your health and disease reversal and you WILL save money on 'health care' expenses, perhaps a dramatic amount. This is the only real solution to our current 'health care crisis.'
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» RE: TOMtheRUNNER
Posted by: mjabele
» RE: TOMtheRUNNER
Posted by: richholland
» RE: TOMtheRUNNER
Posted by: richholland
Comments are closed-
Posted by: aethr on Feb 23, 2007 12:15 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Isn't if fairly obvious that a business that profits by refusing to provide the services it is paid for can't possibly function properly in a market-based environment? Isn't insurance, by its very nature, inherently socialistic?
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» RE: A non-marketable commodity
Posted by: mindcryme
» RE: A non-marketable commodity
Posted by: Trazom
» RE: A non-marketable commodity-HUMAN FLESH AND SOULS ARE NOT COMMODITIES
Posted by: drricklippin
» COMMODIFIED America
Posted by: Cathyc
» RE: COMMODIFIED America
Posted by: drricklippin
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Temporary on Feb 23, 2007 12:19 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: No way to go!
Posted by: mindcryme
» RE: No way to go!
Posted by: Blix
» RE: No way to go! COST CONTROL IS INDEED NECESSARY
Posted by: drricklippin
» RE: No way to go! COST CONTROL IS INDEED NECESSARY
Posted by: JessB
» RE: No way to go! COST CONTROL IS INDEED NECESSARY
Posted by: drricklippin
» RE: This will only work if we reduce the quality of care...
Posted by: EagleMB
» RE: This will only work if we reduce the quality of care...
Posted by: babs
» RE: This will only work if we reduce the quality of care...
Posted by: EagleMB
» The Eagle is not that well grounded
Posted by: famouspipeliner
» RE: The Eagle is not that well grounded
Posted by: EagleMB
» I have a dream
Posted by: famouspipeliner
» RE: I have a dream
Posted by: EagleMB
» and then I woke up
Posted by: famouspipeliner
» RE: and then I woke up
Posted by: dkm
» RE: and then I woke up
Posted by: EagleMB
» RE: and then I woke up
Posted by: EagleMB
» RE: The Eagle is not that well grounded
Posted by: BriMan
» RE: The Eagle is not that well grounded
Posted by: EagleMB
» RE: The Eagle is not that well grounded - my baseless reply
Posted by: BriMan
» RE: The Eagle is not that well grounded - Reply 1 of 2
Posted by: EagleMB
» RE: The Eagle is not that well grounded - reply 2 of 2
Posted by: EagleMB
» Schumacher
Posted by: famouspipeliner
» RE: Schumacher
Posted by: EagleMB
» RE: The Eagle is not that well grounded - rebuttal
Posted by: BriMan
» RE: The Eagle is not that well grounded - rebuttal - Reply 1 of 2
Posted by: EagleMB
» RE: The Eagle is not that well grounded - rebuttal - Reply 2 of 2
Posted by: EagleMB
» RE: The Eagle is not that well grounded - rebuttal - Reply 2 of 2
Posted by: mjabele
» RE: The Eagle is not that well grounded - rebuttal - Reply 2 of 2
Posted by: EagleMB
» RE: The Eagle is not that well grounded
Posted by: mjabele
» RE: The Eagle is not that well grounded
Posted by: EagleMB
» We need more than just "innovation"...
Posted by: mjabele
» RE: We need more than just "innovation"...
Posted by: EagleMB
» We need more than just "innovation"...Part 2
Posted by: mjabele
» RE: We need more than just "innovation"...Part 2
Posted by: EagleMB
» Actuall, and in spite of it all, I had to laugh at this post.
Posted by: ABetterFuture
» White baby boomers??
Posted by: imntacrook
Comments are closed-
Posted by: mindcryme on Feb 23, 2007 1:09 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So the solution to this problem is simple.
What drives the insurers? Money.
How do you motivate them to go away? Money.
You want to pass healthcare reform, maybe go to a socialist universal care system managed by the government?
Simply offer the private insurance companies and HMOs cold, hard, cash; a present value of their future cash flows and they'll walk, just like any business man. They're fairly simple to understand. They don't have an ideaology, or anything so complex. They'll take fair value for their future earnings and they'll exit the business.
Once they release their grip on the Senate, health care reform will pass over night.
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» That's true
Posted by: Bobsays
» RE: A Simple(r) Plan
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: A Simple(r) Plan
Posted by: aethr
» RE: A Simple(r) Plan
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: A Simple Plan
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: A Simple Plan
Posted by: Lincoln fan
Comments are closed-
Posted by: jyongue@iag.net on Feb 23, 2007 4:11 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
1. Coverage needs to be provided by the same source over the life of the individual.
2. Agents commission should be counted in the profits of insurance companies.
3. The failure of private insurance companies to provide the required product should be recognized and the federal government take over. Socialized Medicine may sound bad to some, but lables should not determing our course.
4. Recent results with property insurance and global warming modified hurricanes indicate that it may have the same problem as health insurance.
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» yep, and aethr was nearly right...
Posted by: andyc
» RE: yep, and aethr was nearly right...
Posted by: Trazom
» OK, not a flat tax:
Posted by: andyc
» regulation
Posted by: andyc
» RE: oot of the Problem
Posted by: Lauren
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Bobsays on Feb 23, 2007 4:58 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Fully publicly funded is dead and it is the groaning weight of the baby boomers that is killing it. If they would only eat right, exercise, and live healthy lifestyles, they wouldn't need all this extra surgery and pills. I see it every day - and it is a HUGE waste.
Stop being so damn selfish and pull your socks up!
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» Government Still Runs the Show, Who is in Charge is What Counts!
Posted by: sofla100
» RE: Only problem is: Canada/UK become more private by the day
Posted by: Trazom
» RE: Only problem is: Canada/UK become more private by the day
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: Only problem is: Canada/UK become more private by the day
Posted by: nise52
» RE: Only problem is: Canada/UK become more private by the day
Posted by: LeeAnnG
» RE: Only problem is: Canada/UK become more private by the day
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» famouspipelinersays
Posted by: famouspipeliner
» RE: Canada/UK cover all their citizens the US is 46 million short
Posted by: Jersey Devil
» RE: Canada/UK cover all their citizens the US is 46 million short
Posted by: mwildfire
» RE: Canada/UK cover all their citizens the US is 46 million short
Posted by: aethr
» RE: Canada/UK cover all their citizens the US is 46 million short
Posted by: Jethro2112
» RE: Only problem is: Canada/UK become more private by the day
Posted by: paschn
Comments are closed-
Posted by: allUneedislove on Feb 23, 2007 5:17 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Even the ALTERNATE press has completely ignored this man and his message. I know Democrats who have still never heard of him, even after his prior presidential candidacy.
Shame, Shame! Once again, the people are fed what someone wants them to eat.
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» RE: Dennis Kucinich is saying these things
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: Dennis Kucinich is saying these things
Posted by: imntacrook
Comments are closed-
Posted by: disenfranchised on Feb 23, 2007 5:19 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Does anyone really think that the Insurance corporations will treat your health any differently from the way that they have dealt with storm and flood damage srought by natural disasters? Just look at what they have done to the Hurricane victims.
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Posted by: bomec on Feb 23, 2007 5:25 AM
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» This US system of providing health care is truly nuts at it core...
Posted by: Cathyc
Comments are closed-
Posted by: drricklippin on Feb 23, 2007 5:37 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
IT IS FEAR OF "RAPID-RADICAL" CHANGE THAT IS SCARING POLITICIANS. Putting aside very hefty campaign contributions by our "disease care" industry the pols fear severe US economic dislocations if they try to change a $2 trillion dollar plus system too quickly.
Hence, regrettably. incrementalism rules the present day
I am for H.R.676 (Conyers/Kucinich etc-"Medicare for All") but the bill needs to be modified to include individual and institutional prevention.
Because I do agree our "disesase care system" is not economically sustainable long term
Dr. Rick Lippin
http://medicalcrises.blogspot.com
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» I read your blog, Dr.
Posted by: henderson
» RE: I read your blog, Dr.THANKS HENDERSON
Posted by: drricklippin
» Clean air, water and food....
Posted by: Cathyc
» RE: Clean air, water and food....??????
Posted by: drricklippin
» RE: FEAR OF "RAPID-RADICAL" CHANGE IS SCARING POLITICIANS
Posted by: rvirchow
Comments are closed-
Posted by: spencerh on Feb 23, 2007 5:44 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
- markets don't solve everything
- "every person for themselves" has no place in a modern country. We're not an anarcho-capitalist country.
- government needs to be made small enough to drown in a bathtub
- government involvement equals socialism/communism
we're just going to continue to run into the same exact barriers, the same exact arguments, and the same exact inertia for every single issue involving government management. Completely free public higher education? Universal, single-payer healthcare? A real social safety net so that people don't feel like losing a job means that they're going to be out on the street? These arguments run counter to the fundamental ideas the MFR has:
- Good social safety nets makes people lazy, and that means people won't work.
- Nature is a "dog-eat-dog world", so too should human society.
- Helping people equals weakness.
- Government is bad. It just is (the Bush administration is making this argument easier for them to make every day).
Social Democracies in Europe haven't imploded. Look at happiness indexes and human rights records of countries like the Netherlands, (modern) Spain, and the Nordic countries.
Shift the Overton Window not on various specific issues, but on the fundamental ideas of the MFR, and progress will be so much easier. Until then, we'll continue to beat our heads against these entrenched ideas, which they don't have to do *any work to defend*, because they're so widely accepted.
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» Free Marketeers
Posted by: eddie torres
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Moonray on Feb 23, 2007 5:49 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Alarmingly, now some states are making health insurance mandatory, like automobile insurance. This will only drive insurance rates -- and profits -- through the roof.
Insurance is largely an extortion scheme and we should put a stop to 90 percent of it. We need a single-payer health system and we need to get rid of state-required auto insurance, which is just a gravy train for the insurance companies. States should establish their own insurance systems and cap pain-and-suffering awards.
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» Insurance is Extortion
Posted by: Cathyc
» RE: Leading Democratic candidates lack courage on this issue
Posted by: MartianBachelor
Comments are closed-
Posted by: ProgressiveManiac on Feb 23, 2007 6:23 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The root of both of these problems lies with the system that depends on private, for profit insurance to pay for our health care. Nearly a third of every dollar that is paid for health care in this country goes instead to paperwork and profits of these private health insurance companies.
The best solution to this problem is to remove these insurance companies from the picture and the experience of the rest of the world seems to indicate that the best way to do this is by replacing the insurance companies with a single payer in which the government steps in to play the role of a non-profit insurance company.
Unfortunately, in this country this solution has been difficult to achieve. Many people seem to feel that this is a step towards Socialism that has to be avoided no matter what it costs in lives.
The point I want to raise for discussion is that there may be another solution. Suppose a non-profit insurance company could somehow be established that is separate from the government. Then the non-profit company would have to cover costs but would not need to show profits. This could allow that foundation to offer health insurance at a cost that would be much lower than the profit-making firms.
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» RE: The Problems with Our Health Care System
Posted by: imntacrook
» RE: The Problems with Our Health Care System
Posted by: ProgressiveManiac
» Yes, but you don't have a Government...
Posted by: Cathyc
» RE: The Problems with Our Health Care System
Posted by: cupera1
» No govt ever?? America (and its Allies) are not W. EUROPE!!!
Posted by: Cathyc
» RE: The Problems with Our Health Care System
Posted by: ProgressiveManiac
» Half the Problem with Our Health Care System
Posted by: dkm
» RE: Half the Problem with Our Health Care System
Posted by: ProgressiveManiac
Comments are closed-
Posted by: lb on Feb 23, 2007 6:34 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The insurance companies have to go. Medicare has shown time and again that they are the most cost effective health care delivery system in our country. Medicare could be "state of the art" if they had the money that now goes to the insurance companies.
And then we can go after Big Pharma.
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» RE: The Cure will have to be drastic
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: The Cure will have to be drastic they only own what you give them
Posted by: solrev
» RE: The Cure will have to be drastic they only own what you give them
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE:Nice web site.
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: The Cure will have to be drastic
Posted by: Old Skeptic
Comments are closed-
Posted by: ABetterFuture on Feb 23, 2007 6:55 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Because 85% of the people in the country are covered under some form of health care in this country, and because we are inherently distrustful of our policymakers.
Let's let our Congresscritters figure out something easy, like balancing the national checkbook which only involves adding and subtracting, before we turn them loose on heart valves, HIV drugs, and emerging diseases. I mean, have you heard some of the intelligent things these folks have been saying lately? And you want them in charge of rationing your burn therapy?
In the meantime, I certainly wouldn't be opposed to expanding matching medicaid dollars to all the states to cover children and those who are not able to provide for themselves. Finding a way to extend health coverage to the portion 15% of the populace who can't get it on their own should not involve completely scrapping the excellent health care that the majority of us enjoy.
We don't need a 100% different direction to fix a 15% problem.
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» Coverage and Cost
Posted by: eddie torres
» You've fairly described a problem.
Posted by: ABetterFuture
» Public Resources vs Luxury of "Choice"
Posted by: eddie torres
» All good points.
Posted by: ABetterFuture
» Back to the Future
Posted by: eddie torres
» RE: There's an easy answer for your question, but you aren't going to like it.
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: There's an easy answer for your question, but you aren't going to like it.
Posted by: ABetterFuture
» RE: There's an easy answer for your question, but you aren't going to like it.
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: There's an easy answer for your question, but you aren't going to like it.
Posted by: mwildfire
» You could be a Fox News anal...
Posted by: ABetterFuture
» Even for those who are insured, is it really "top-tier" health care...?
Posted by: mjabele
Comments are closed-
Posted by: antiapathy on Feb 23, 2007 6:58 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
what ever happened to providing positive rights? health care, education, the right to unionize? all of these are under attack by the government. there are precious few members of Congress who have the backbone to stand up for our rights, and I continue to be amazed that the majority of corrupt politicians are rewarded for their betrayal with reelection.
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» Wake up people, you're now living under a TOTALITARIAN system!
Posted by: Cathyc
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Lincoln fan on Feb 23, 2007 7:01 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If you will click on open secrets you will see the answer. The 2004 campaign contributions of the Finance, Insurance, and Real Estate industries totalled $338 million. Roughly 60% to the Republicans and 40% to the Democrats. How's that for hedging your bets.
No matter who loses the election the corporate establishment wins. No matter who wins the election the voters lose.
Bob Reichenbach,
Director, The Lincoln Initiative.
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» Correction - Sorry
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: Correction - Sorry THANKS BOB!
Posted by: drricklippin
» RE: I know why. Do you? IT'S ALL CYCLICAL
Posted by: drricklippin
» RE: I know why. Do you?
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: I know why. Do you?
Posted by: drricklippin
Comments are closed-
Posted by: sofla100 on Feb 23, 2007 7:02 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Right On!
Posted by: Lincoln fan
Comments are closed-
Posted by: sausage on Feb 23, 2007 8:13 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As I understand these corporate-giveaway programs, every citizen of any given state is required under law to have health insurance provided either by his employer or through a private, out-of-pocket, plan. Now, again as I understand it, if an individual does not have recourse to either of the above options, then the state, at taxpayer expense, will subsidize the cost of her health care insurance premiums.
Of course these wonderful plans always are couched the in language of "personal responsibility" and the "free market;" the premise being that the individual citizen will always make the "right" decission in choosing his or her health care provider. Of course from the fiasco that is the Medicare Prescription Drug Benefit Plan, a major sop to the nation's insurance and pharmaceutical companies, we can see that letting the individual choose his own plan is confusing, often contradictory and just plain doesn't work. (Yes, yes, a Google search yeilds glowing reports, but from conversations I've had with folks on Medicare D, it ain't so.)
When given nothing but bad choices, one will only end up with bad results. If health insurance company A's plan is horse shit, company B's chicken shit, company C's bull shit, they may all look and smell differently but they are all, at the basest level, still just plain shit.
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» RE: "Personal responsibility"+"free market"=a bunch of BS
Posted by: Lincoln fan
Comments are closed-
Posted by: willymack on Feb 23, 2007 8:14 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: imntacrook on Feb 23, 2007 9:01 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Naturally no one can afford health insurance with people like John Edwards suing doctors. Hell the doctors can't even afford it.
My advice - don't buy insurance and when you need to call 911. - ITS FREE!!
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» You are so wrong
Posted by: sausage
» RE: Health Care is FREE in the USA!
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: Health Care is FREE in the USA!
Posted by: aethr
» RE: Health Care is FREE in the USA!
Posted by: Tatarize
» Prove me wrong, no problem
Posted by: dkm
» RE: Prove me wrong, no problem
Posted by: EagleMB
Comments are closed-
Posted by: NoPCZone on Feb 23, 2007 9:09 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Many of the jobs that require significant education, continuing education and certification in the US pay scandalously low wages relative to the education and skills that they require. The result is that many working in healthcare cannot afford to use the very services that they provide to others. In the meantime, drug and equipment reps that never touch a patient and hold minimal to no education beyond a business degree commonly make 6-figure incomes loaded with perks.
If nations that provide quality care AND pay their staffs proper wages while covering all people do so at HALF the US expenditure rate, the symptoms say that our system is terribly corrupted, inefficient and ineffective. What the US is getting could be likened to buying a luxury car that doesn't run 1/5th- 1/6th of the time to a mainstream car that costs half as much with all of the same features and runs reliably every day. Otherwise, an intolerable mess.
Let me bust a myth for you. FOR ALMOST EVERYONE, THERE IS NO FREE MARKET FOR HEALTHCARE INSURANCE OR DELIVERY IN THE UNITED STATES. Let that soak in and commit it to memory the next time some pundit or politician starts spouting free market bullsh*t concerning healthcare. Your employer picks what insurance is available (no choice). Your insurer has negotiated a PPO arrangement without your input or consent (no choice) and has determined what will be covered and how it will be offered- all or nothing (no choice). In most of the US, the insurer has little choice but to arrange for a PPO with the only hospital (or system) that is the only or dominant provider in your local market (no choice). Most hospitals have been driven be economics into supplier lock-ins for equipment and supply purchases (no choice). More of the same goes on throughout the chain of supply , delivery and accounting. Your only 'choice' is to take it or leave it. Not even the slightest similarity to the open and competitive markets described by Adam Smith.
There is little to no competition on the provider side. States regulate the establishment of clinics, care facilities an hospitals with certificates of need. Needless to say, the process is a lawyer feast full of politics, money and influence peddling. The bottom line- those already in the business do not want anyone else in and fight among themselves for pie slices like an oligarchy.
In the end you are offered a crappy product that is overpriced, provides little choice and has been designed from the bottom up to maximize the profits of the insurers, employers, hospital chains, pharmacy and medical equipment companies and executives at the expense of everyone else. What regulation exists is fractive and has largely ben 'captured' by representatives of the very people and institutions it was designed to regulate. You are told what you will pay, under what terms, who you can see, when you can see them, and at what facility-- all subject to pre-approval, second guessing and hindsight by the insurance company.
That's not a free market or even a regulated free market. The terms CARTEL and OLIGARCHY come to mind.
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» See also: Monopsony
Posted by: eddie torres
» RE: See also: Monopsony
Posted by: EagleMB
» Neocon talking points
Posted by: dkm
» RE: Neocon talking points
Posted by: EagleMB
» RE: See also: Monopsony
Posted by: mjabele
» RE: See also: Monopsony
Posted by: EagleMB
» Many employers don't offer health care
Posted by: harpy
» RE: Many employers don't offer health care-EMPLOYERS SHOUDN'T BE TRUSTED WITH HEALTH CARE
Posted by: drricklippin
Comments are closed-
Posted by: earthwater on Feb 23, 2007 9:59 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Sure, the insurance companies are greedy and heartless, butTOO LITTLE-TOO LATE
Posted by: drricklippin
Comments are closed-
Posted by: dayahka on Feb 23, 2007 10:57 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is the only workable system, with a role for government and the market.
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» RE: Two Levels of healthcare needed
Posted by: NoPCZone
» RE: Two Levels of healthcare needed
Posted by: aethr
Comments are closed-
Posted by: djnoll on Feb 23, 2007 12:00 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
1) Did you know that the determination of how long a person needs to recover from any illness in a hospital facility is based on how long it takes a normally healthy 35-year old man in good physical condition to recover? God help you if you are an 83 year old man in poor health or a small child weakened by high fever!
2) Decisions are no longer made on the course of treatment or care by your personal physicians who have an acute knowledge of your medical history or care. They are made by nurses and paraprofessionals thousands of miles away who have not even seen you or have any personal knowledge of your situation. They use doctors in consultation on insurance company payrolls to help them make their decisions, and not necessarily even doctors who specialize in your particular problems.
3) Medicare and Medicaid are some of the worst managed health care systems in the world. They often pay far below the charges, leaving clients with huge medical bills unless they carry supplemental insurance, and they often pay very late. Most reputable doctors will not longer treat patients on Medicare or Medicaid, or if they do, you may have to wait as long as 6 months to a year for an appointment.
4) The quality of care provided to patients by doctors and hospitals is so abysmal that it is dangerous to even enter their care for fear of your life. Death due to doctor or hospital error has been rising steadily, the last I read, for over 20 years now and could be considered of epidemic proportions, if it were ever made public.
5) When you discuss insurance, do not forget the AMA and its desire to protect itself and its members from complicity in this debacle. Doctors will work for insurance companies, Medicare, Worker's Comp carriers and corporations well before they will work for the public at large. The idea of the Hypocratic Oath is a thing of the past. The first line "I will do no harm..." is long since forgotten by the medical profession that has more interest in artwork and Porsches than in helping sick people.
6) The premium we pay for insurance are far in excess of what you will ever pay out in medical bills for the average American. If every American would set up a a no-strings savings account for health expenses, not the HSA of IRS fame, and place in it what an employer would deduct for a policy payment or some portion of each paycheck around 10% maybe, they should be able to cover their average medical needs and expenses very well. This account grows with each year.
I have been uninsured for over 6 years now, and I have only been forced to run up medical bills as the result of an accident until I said stop. I have not seen a doctor for regular medical care in nearly three years, and I have found healthy alternatives to caring for my many aches and pains that are inexpensive and work. So tell your employers thanks, but no thanks, and open the health savings account for you and your family. If you do not need it, then just let it continue to grow. If people did this, then insurance companies would soon find themselves needing to reduce premiums, and change their practices or go out of business. Doctors would have to start adjusting their charges to ones that people can afford, just as many of them do now for cash customers.
Forget universal health-care and forget insurance companies. Take personal responsibility for your own health expenses, and allow the state to set up a fund to be billed for indigent care as needed. It is called sustanability, and it starts with personal responsibility.
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» How nice that you had the disposable income for the Health savings
Posted by: harpy
» RE: How nice that you had the disposable income for the Health savings
Posted by: djnoll
» How lucky you are!
Posted by: sausage
» RE: Health Insuranceis not about Health
Posted by: Jas1317
» RE: Health Insuranceis not about Health
Posted by: djnoll
» Since you are all so interested, my monthly income is $800 per month
Posted by: djnoll
» Not exactly enough to enable you to behave as an "informed consumer".....
Posted by: mjabele
» RE: Health Insuranceis not about Health
Posted by: EagleMB
» RE: Health Insuranceis not about Health
Posted by: mjabele
» RE: Health Insuranceis not about Health
Posted by: EagleMB
» RE: Health Insuranceis not about Health
Posted by: mjabele
» RE: Health Insuranceis not about Health
Posted by: EagleMB
» RE: Health Insuranceis not about Health
Posted by: mjabele
» RE: Health Insuranceis not about Health
Posted by: EagleMB
» RE: Health Insuranceis not about Health
Posted by: mjabele
» RE: Health Insuranceis not about Health
Posted by: EagleMB
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Iconoclast421 on Feb 23, 2007 1:10 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There has to be a consensus on exactly WHY the system is broken before there can be a solution.
As long as the drug companies write our laws and brainwash our minds with endless 30 second clips telling us we need their products, we're never going to get out of paying out the ass for healthcare. In fact advertising is the principal cause of most of our healthcare woes. There is plenty of evidence to support this notion. BUT what there needs to be is overwhelming scientific consensus that says Yes advertising is what's really killing us. This can be done by pushing congress to have hearings and commissioning truly in depth studies on the relationship between a person's exposure to advertising and their overall health. Such a study needs to be well funded and have a broad number of participants. Once the data is in, the real problem with the system can be clearly highlighted for all to see. Then we can reach a concensus. And THEN we will know what to do...
In short:
Step 1: clean out the lobbyists just enough to be able to accomplish step 2!
Step 2: commission an independent scientific study on the relationships between advertising exposure and public health.
Step 3: Discuss solutions to problems revealed by the data in step 2.
Use the scientific method! Focus on things that can be measured, analyzed, and quantified. If this is not done, then the debate will go on and on, because there is no way to definatively prove that a for-profit system is better or worse than a socialized system. But that is a total red herring. It's just another game of divide and conquer. Force two sides into intractible positions and sit back and laugh as you rake in the money. That's what the corporate media does. Is it time to wise up yet? Why do you think they try so hard to dumb us down and make us shun the scientific method? Because it is the only weapon we have against 21st century tyranny.
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» there is no way to definatively prove that a for-profit system is better or worse than a socialized
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: there is no way to definatively prove that a for-profit system is better or worse than a socialized
Posted by: EagleMB
» RE: there is no way to definatively prove that a for-profit system is better or worse than a socialized
Posted by: mjabele
» RE: there is no way to definatively prove that a for-profit system is better or worse than a socialized
Posted by: EagleMB
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Maryanne on Feb 23, 2007 3:47 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The country also needs a healthy population, therefore a need for heath care for everyone. Industry could not function if most of the country were ill with some major illness (as in days when people died of diseases that were not controlable, such as tuberculosis, etc.)
Therefore a real need exists for preventative medical care, care at time of crisis, and long term care. We are not (ot at least not suposed to be) so primitive that we send our aged and ill off on ice floes to die. But with the cuts in medicare, medicaid, minimum wages, declining value of middle class wages, etc. what options will there be in the future? and how will we handle costs of medical care?
With decreasing nuclear families and families scattered, who will be there for the ill and aged? We are already aware of a situation in which there is no one.for an elderly mid 80s)person with cancer, who must fend for self.
Personally we are "lucky" insofar as we have medical insurance (cost covered on a 50/50 basis with former employer) although this is very expensive. We are locked
into one server, but this has not stopped numerous other cmpanies from showering us with advertisements for their offerings. To say that we have received at least 50 different inducements in the past few months may be an understatement.
There is no way to compare these- some are detailed plans, some one page shiny post cards, some with tantalizing offers but no details. How can anyone sort through all this and come to an appropriate decision? How can anyone compare the offerings when these are not even spelled out? For us, with graduate degrees, all this is incomprehensible; how can someone less schooled, or aged, or ill be able to go through this and make any sense? Or a sound decision?
And think of the cost of all this advertising!
What we need is universal medical coverage, with one payer, and the freedom to choose one's own doctors and medical services. This in the long run would be far less costly than the present system, and much more fair to all.
We, the wealthiest country should be able to take care of our citizenry. There is plenty of money around. Remove the tax benefits from the extremely wealthy which would release huge amounts of money. Save on the monies transferred to the HMOs, who are the middlemen. Contributions on a sliding scale dependent upon income could also provide needed funds. The time to act is now.
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» RE: What the country needs...
Posted by: Cathyc
» RE: What the country needs...
Posted by: cinattra
» RE: What the country needs...
Posted by: imntacrook
» All I see on these blogs is a bunch of INCREDIBLY ignorant people!...
Posted by: Cathyc
» Actually, basic public health statistics prove otherwise.....nm
Posted by: mjabele
» Actually, the US donates LESS foreign aid per capita than most other industrialized nations...nm
Posted by: mjabele
» RE: What the country needs
Posted by: EagleMB
Comments are closed-
Posted by: mwildfire on Feb 23, 2007 8:59 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I spend more time on paperwork than doing anything with my clients...periodically an accountability outfit hired by Medicaid comes and pores through a selection of charts, looking to see if all the T's have been crossed and all the I's dotted, taking off points and possibly yanking back dollars if the paperwork isn't up to snuff on their checklist, which is always changing. To my knowledge they never talk to the clients to ask whether we're doing them any good, or even to check whether we're really providing the services we bill for. It's all about the paperwork.
Today I took one of those calls I hate--from someone with a drug-addicted relative who's ready to get help. I hate having to tell them their relative is basically SOL--unless they're pregnant, shooting up or preferrably both, it's a one to two month waiting list to get inpatient care. Guess what percentage of people with drug problems have any kind of insurance?
Meanwhile, people with personality disorders, and Medicaid, can visit the ER twice a week with bogus problems, wasting thousands of dollars of taxpayer money, and getting treatment because the doctors are afraid if they boot them out, they'll go make a more serious suicide gesture and the docs will be liable.
I can't wait to quit this job- I would never want to work within this system again, it's way past my bullshit tolerance.
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» RE: as a provider--
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: as a provider--
Posted by: drricklippin
» What are you doing to make the system better?
Posted by: cinattra
» RE: What are you doing to make the system better? I WRITE A BLOG SINCE DEC 05
Posted by: drricklippin
» RE: What are you doing to make the system better? I WRITE A BLOG SINCE DEC 05
Posted by: Mewsician
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Posted by: mjabele on Feb 24, 2007 7:29 AM
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Insurance co-pays for things like office visits, medications, tests, and emergency room visits have now risen to the point where patients are making the - in most cases poorly informed, or completely UNinformed - decision to avoid seeing the doctor or having tests done in order to save money. Medications are not infrequently taken every other day or omitted altogether in order to mitigate or avoid high prescription co-pays - I now routinely call pharmacies in order to check patients' refill patterns, even when they tell me they're taking something I've prescribed, because I know they're often too embarassed to admit to me that expense is an obstacle for them. People with symptoms that obviously require emergency room care - anginal-type chest pain, or stroke symptoms - are doing silly things like having me paged so that I can listen to their symptoms and "authorize" their visit to the ER for them, so they don't get into a potential reimbursement fracas with their insurance company afterward.
From the provider angle, the fact that physicians have for the most part become employees of insurance companies or hospitals means that "productivity" has become the dominant paradigm in terms of scheduling and orchestrating patient visits. I'm fortunate as an internist in my current position at a community health center in being allowed 15 minutes for office visits; even so, I'm expected to routinely "double-book" patients during the course of my working day in order to maximize the number of appointments seen, meaning that a number of patients who come to me expecting 15 minutes of my time are really only "entitled" to 7.5 minutes. And, given that a good deal of the appointment time is necessarily given over to writing prescriptions and deciding what tests the patient may need, it's actually even less than that. My colleagues in private practice are sometimes often given only 10-minute slots, meaning that "double-booking" for them implies 5-minute slots for many patients. The brevity of these encounters inevitably has an effect on the quality of care delivered. Patients often don't have time to tell their doctors what ails them, and doctors often don't have time to take an accurate diagnostic history, let alone perform even a limited physical exam. I've had patients in the office who haven't had a stethoscope laid on them for years by their previous providers, and turned out to have things like critical carotid artery blockages or heart valve dysfunction when finally examined. Say what you like, this is not "top-tier" health care - and it's becoming MORE common, not less.
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» RE: Even for those who are insured, is it really "top-tier" health care - cont.
Posted by: mjabele
» RE: ven for those who are insured, is it really "top-tier" health care - cont.
Posted by: richholland
» RE: ven for those who are insured, is it really "top-tier" health care - cont.
Posted by: richholland
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Posted by: wireup on Feb 25, 2007 1:58 PM
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It's fine to bitch about it, but what the HELL are you DOING about it?
You have a large and powerful organization in the American Medical Association. And while I, as a consumer who for half a lifetime has tended to my own medical needs, often without a physician, I believe that the AMA could force needed changes if they really wanted to do so.
Want to change the climate in health care? Then do it. Don't talk about it. Do it. And don't say that you can't. Because we both know that you CAN!
I have heard physicians here and in other places bitching about the current so-called "health care system" which is rife with corruption and greed. If you truly believe what you say, why do you continue to function under it and do nothing to change it?
For god's sakes: YOU ARE THE PROVIDERS! If, as a group, you REFUSED to continue under the current system, don't you think this might lead to changes?
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Posted by: dbursch on Feb 26, 2007 8:18 AM
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I know everyone will point out how no pol will ever champion such an unpopular idea, but until at least the debate is framed to put the onus on wellness instead of disease management, nothing will ever change.
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Posted by: richholland on Feb 26, 2007 9:35 AM
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in the majority we changed from state insurance to a combination of basic coverage for everybody and a private choice for "luxury"
Anyway a black baby in the Bronx has less surviving chances then a baby in the jungle of Bangladesh.
By the way a dutch insurence company which makes hugh profits
will be punished by the State, .
To get a better life donot pray to the God of Big Money.
Again analyse your system and the alternatives and you will see that a combination of state and capitalisme gives the best results.
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Posted by: disc golf on Feb 27, 2007 7:57 AM
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There is a major flaw in most arguments for universal health care and it is this: It assumes that most will be able to afford it, because the costs will be spread out far and wide, presumably through increased taxes. However, the costs are still probably 10 times what they COULD be, if much cheaper (and perhaps more effective), 'alternative therapies' were available to the public and if ONE other thing happened: This 'one other thing' is the cost reductions that would occur if Americans--ALL Americans would recognize the costs savings in taking better care of oneself. That's MY health care plan, eating right (mostly organic foods), regular juicing, herbs, supplements, exercising moderately (40-50 miles per week running, race-walking), meditating regularly, etc. These are some of the tools that have allowed me to spend no more than $600 on health care over 30 years (that expense due to the expense of two running-related injuries, a broken foot and a sprained ankle).
Sure, we could cut our 'health care' costs DRAMATICALLY, but it would require Americans, overall, to take much better care of themselves. To what extreme? Well, looking to the example of Jack LaLanne (92, on TV selling juicers--AND looking great!) Sure, he's an extreme example, but like me he also has spent practically noting on 'health care.'
Let's get serious! Taking extremely good care of yourself is the ONLY effective option to better health. For this is the ONLY way to prevent the serious diseases of our day. And if you get sick anyway, despite following a super-healthy program, conventional medicine has little to offer. For real 'cure,' you'll need to see a naturopathic physician or a holistic doctor and many procedures are, unfortunately, NOT covered by insurance (e.g., chelation therapy, the most proven way to reverse heart disease), because of corruption and the monopoly health care system that keeps many proven (and cheap) therapies, from the American public. Even naturopathic doctors (who do not use drugs in their therapy, but only natural interventions, dietary recommendations, herbal medicine, etc.) are only licensed in 22 states—due to the national medical monopoly that currently is in place.
You CAN get healthier, but it means being proactive and REALLY taking care of yourself, not hoping some universal health care will do it for you. Yeah, let's bring on universal health care, but I don't want to pay an extra $2,000 for a GM automobile, (due to astronomical 'disease care costs' because most Americans prefer to be lazy while eating junk and non-nutritious processed foods while I'm taking care of myself and having zero health-care costs), or a dramatic increase in taxes because so many Americans prefer to be 'taken care of' rather than to 'take care of themselves.' And if you believe disease might just 'happen' to anyone, you're wrong---TRULY healthy people rarely get sick. Neither do they use microwaves, get vaccinations, eat refined foods, farm-raised animal products, etc. Sure it ain't easy, but look what being complacent about our health has gotten us? Sicker and sicker. And unless the average American learns of the dangers of conventional medicine (which, by the way, kills over 500,000 Americans per year from prescription drug-related deaths, medical mistakes, death during surgery, etc.), such deaths will continue under any other ‘plan.’
Take responsibility for your health and disease reversal and you WILL save money on 'health care' expenses, perhaps a dramatic amount. This is the only real solution to our current 'health care crisis.'
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» RE: TOMtheRUNNER
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» RE: TOMtheRUNNER
Posted by: richholland
» RE: TOMtheRUNNER
Posted by: richholland
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