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Why Working Women Are Stuck in the 1950s

By Ruth Rosen, The Nation. Posted February 27, 2007.


Though most mothers are in the workforce, Americans remain trapped in a time warp, convinced that women should and will care for children, the elderly, homes and communities.
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A baby is born. A child develops a high fever. A spouse breaks a leg. A parent suffers a stroke. These are the events that throw a working woman's delicate balance between work and family into chaos.

Although we read endless stories and reports about the problems faced by working women, we possess inadequate language for what most people view as a private rather than a political problem. "That's life," we tell each other, instead of trying to forge common solutions to these dilemmas.

That's exactly what housewives used to say when they felt unhappy and unfulfilled in the 1950s: "That's life." Although magazines often referred to housewives' unexplained depressions, it took Betty Friedan's 1963 bestseller to turn "the problem that has no name" into a household phrase, "the feminine mystique" -- the belief that a woman should find identity and fulfillment exclusively through her family and home.

The great accomplishment of the modern women's movement was to name such private experiences -- domestic violence, sexual harassment, economic discrimination, date rape -- and turn them into public problems that could be debated, changed by new laws and policies or altered by social customs. That is how the personal became political.

Although we have shelves full of books that address work/family problems, we still have not named the burdens that affect most of America's working families.

Call it the care crisis.

For four decades, American women have entered the paid workforce -- on men's terms, not their own -- yet we have done precious little as a society to restructure the workplace or family life. The consequence of this "stalled revolution," a term coined by sociologist Arlie Hochschild, is a profound "care deficit." A broken healthcare system, which has left 47 million Americans without health coverage, means this care crisis is often a matter of life and death. Today the care crisis has replaced the feminine mystique as women's "problem that has no name." It is the elephant in the room -- at home, at work and in national politics -- gigantic but ignored.

Three decades after Congress passed comprehensive childcare legislation in 1971 -- Nixon vetoed it -- childcare has simply dropped off the national agenda. And in the intervening years, the political atmosphere has only grown more hostile to the idea of using federal funds to subsidize the lives of working families.

The result? People suffer their private crises alone, without realizing that the care crisis is a problem of national significance. Many young women agonize about how to combine work and family but view the question of how to raise children as a personal dilemma, to which they need to find an individual solution. Most cannot imagine turning it into a political debate. More than a few young women have told me that the lack of affordable childcare has made them reconsider plans to become parents. Annie Tummino, a young feminist active in New York, put it this way: "I feel terrified of the patchwork situation women are forced to rely upon. Many young women are deciding not to have children or waiting until they are well established in their careers."

Now that the Democrats are running both houses of Congress, we finally have an opportunity to expose the Right's cynical appropriation of "family values" by creating real solutions to the care crisis and making them central to the Democratic agenda. The obstacles, of course, are formidable, given that government and businesses -- as well as many men -- have found it profitable and convenient for women to shoulder the burden of housework and caregiving.

It is as though Americans are trapped in a time warp, still convinced that women should and will care for children, the elderly, homes and communities. But of course they can't, now that most women have entered the workforce. In 1950 less than a fifth of mothers with children under age 6 worked in the labor force. By 2000 two-thirds of these mothers worked in the paid labor market.

Men in dual-income couples have increased their participation in household chores and childcare. But women still manage and organize much of family life, returning home after work to a "second shift" of housework and childcare -- often compounded by a "third shift," caring for aging parents.

Conservatives typically blame the care crisis on the women's movement for creating the impossible ideal of "having it all." But it was women's magazines and popular writers, not feminists, who created the myth of the Superwoman. Feminists of the 1960s and '70s knew they couldn't do it alone. In fact, they insisted that men share the housework and child-rearing and that government and business subsidize childcare.

A few decades later, America's working women feel burdened and exhausted, desperate for sleep and leisure, but they have made few collective protests for government-funded childcare or family-friendly workplace policies. As American corporations compete for profits through layoffs and outsourcing, most workers hesitate to make waves for fear of losing their jobs.

Single mothers naturally suffer the most from the care crisis. But even families with two working parents face what Hochschild has called a "time bind." Americans' yearly work hours increased by more than three weeks between 1989 and 1996, leaving no time for a balanced life. Parents become overwhelmed and cranky, gulping antacids and sleeping pills, while children feel neglected and volunteerism in community life declines.

Meanwhile, the right wins the rhetorical battle by stressing "values" and "faith." In the name of the family they campaign to ban gay marriage and save unborn children. Yet they refuse to embrace public policies that could actually help working families regain stability and balance.

For the very wealthy, the care crisis is not so dire. They solve their care deficit by hiring full-time nannies or home-care attendants, often from developing countries, to care for their children or parents. The irony is that even as these immigrant women make it easier for well-off Americans to ease their own care burdens, their long hours of paid caregiving often force them to leave their own children with relatives in other countries. They also suffer from extremely low wages, job insecurity and employer exploitation.

Middle- and working-class families, with fewer resources, try to patch together care for their children and aging parents with relatives and baby sitters. The very poor sometimes gain access to federal or state programs for childcare or eldercare; but women who work in the low-wage service sector, without adequate sick leave, generally lose their jobs when children or parents require urgent attention. As of 2005, 21 million women lived below the poverty line -- many of them mothers working in these vulnerable situations.

The care crisis starkly exposes how much of the feminist agenda of gender equality remains woefully unfinished. True, some businesses have taken steps to ease the care burden. Every year, Working Mother publishes a list of the 100 most "family friendly" companies. In 2000 the magazine reported that companies that had made "significant improvements in 'quality of life' benefits such as telecommuting, onsite childcare, career training, and flextime" were "saving hundreds of thousands of dollars in recruitment in the long run."

Some universities, law firms and hospitals have also made career adjustments for working mothers, but women's career demands still tend to collide with their most intensive child-rearing years. Many women end up feeling they have failed rather than struggled against a setup designed for a male worker with few family responsibilities.

The fact is, market fundamentalism -- the irrational belief that markets solve all problems -- has succeeded in dismantling federal regulations and services but has failed to answer the question, Who will care for America's children and elderly?

As a result, this country's family policies lag far behind those of the rest of the world. A just-released study by researchers at Harvard and McGill found that of 173 countries studied, 168 guarantee paid maternal leave -- with the United States joining Lesotho and Swaziland among the laggards. At least 145 countries mandate paid sick days for short- or long-term illnesses -- but not the United States. One hundred thirty-four countries legislate a maximum length for the workweek; not us.

The media constantly reinforce the conventional wisdom that the care crisis is an individual problem. Books, magazines and newspapers offer American women an endless stream of advice about how to maintain their "balancing act," how to be better organized and more efficient or how to meditate, exercise and pamper themselves to relieve their mounting stress. Missing is the very pragmatic proposal that American society needs new policies that will restructure the workplace and reorganize family life.

Another slew of stories insist that there simply is no problem: Women have gained equality and passed into a postfeminist era. Such claims are hardly new. Ever since 1970 the mainstream media have been pronouncing the death of feminism and reporting that working women have returned home to care for their children. Now such stories describe, based on scraps of anecdotal data, how elite (predominantly white) women are "choosing" to "opt out," ditching their career opportunities in favor of home and children or to care for aging parents. In 2000 Ellen Galinsky, president of the Families and Work Institute in New York, wearily responded to reporters, "I still meet people all the time who believe that the trend has turned, that more women are staying home with their kids, that there are going to be fewer dual-income families. But it's just not true."

Such contentious stories conveniently mask the reality that most women have to work, regardless of their preference. They also obscure the fact that an absence of quality, affordable childcare and flexible working hours, among other family-friendly policies, greatly contributes to women's so-called "choice" to stay at home.

In the past few years, a series of sensational stories have pitted stay-at-home mothers against "working women" in what the media coyly call the "mommy wars." When the New York Times ran a story on the controversy, one woman wrote the editor, "The word 'choice' has been used ... as a euphemism for unpaid labor, with no job security, no health or vacation benefits and no retirement plans. No wonder men are not clamoring for this 'choice.' Many jobs in the workplace also involve drudgery, but do not leave one financially dependent on another person."

Most institutions, in fact, have not implemented policies that support family life. As a result, many women do feel compelled to choose between work and family. In Scandinavian countries, where laws provide for generous parental leave and subsidized childcare, women participate in the labor force at far greater rates than here -- evidence that "opting out" is, more often than not, the result of a poverty of acceptable options.

American women who do leave their jobs find that they cannot easily re-enter the labor force. The European Union has established that parents who take a leave from work have a right to return to an equivalent job. Not so in the United States. According to a 2005 study by the Wharton Center for Leadership and Change and the Forte Foundation, those who held advanced degrees in law, medicine or education often faced a frosty reception and found themselves shut out of their careers. In her 2005 book Bait and Switch, Barbara Ehrenreich describes how difficult it was for her to find employment as a midlevel manager, despite waving an excellent résumé at potential employers. "The prohibition on [résumé] gaps is pretty great," she says. "You have to be getting an education or making money for somebody all along, every minute."

Some legislation passed by Congress has exacerbated the care crisis rather than ameliorated it. Consider the 1996 Welfare Reform Act, which eliminated guaranteed welfare, replaced it with Temporary Assistance to Needy Families (TANF) and set a five-year lifetime limit on benefits. Administered by the states, TANF aimed to reduce the number of mothers on welfare rolls, not to reduce poverty.

TANF was supposed to provide self-sufficiency for poor women. But most states forced recipients into unskilled, low-wage jobs, where they joined the working poor. By 2002 one in ten former welfare recipients in seven Midwestern states had become homeless, even though they were now employed.

TANF also disqualified higher education as a work-related activity, which robbed many poor women of an opportunity for upward mobility. Even as the media celebrate highly educated career women who leave their jobs to become stay-at-home moms, TANF requires single mothers to leave their children somewhere, anywhere, so they can fulfill their workfare requirement and receive benefits. TANF issues vouchers that force women to leave their children with dubious childcare providers or baby sitters they have good reasons not to trust.

Some readers may recall the 1970 Women's Strike for Equality, when up to 50,000 women exuberantly marched down New York's Fifth Avenue to issue three core demands for improving their lives: the right to an abortion, equal pay for equal work and universal childcare. The event received so much media attention that it turned the women's movement into a household word.

A generation later, women activists know how far we are from achieving those goals. Abortion is under serious legal attack, and one-third of American women no longer have access to a provider in the county in which they live. Women still make only 77 percent of what men do for the same job; and after they have a child, they suffer from an additional "mother's wage gap," which shows up in fewer promotions, smaller pensions and lower Social Security benefits. Universal childcare isn't even on the agenda of the Democrats.

Goals proposed in 1970, however unrealized, are no longer sufficient for the new century. Even during these bleak Bush years, many writers, activists and organizations have begun planning for a different future. If women really mattered, they ask, how would we change public policy and society? As one writer puts it, "What would the brave new world look like if women could press reboot and rewrite all the rules?"

Though no widely accepted manifesto exists, many advocacy organizations -- such as the Institute for Women's Policy Research, the Children's Defense Fund, the National Partnership for Women and Families, Take Care Net and MomsRising -- have argued that universal healthcare, paid parental leave, high-quality subsidized on-the-job and community childcare, a living wage, job training and education, flexible work hours and greater opportunities for part-time work, investment in affordable housing and mass transit, and the reinstatement of a progressive tax structure would go a long way toward supporting working mothers and their families. (In these pages in 2003, Deborah Stone documented campaigns on many of these issues by organizations in California, Massachusetts and Washington.)

Democrats don't need to reinvent the wheel; these groups have already provided the basis for a new progressive domestic agenda. And if Democrats embrace large portions of this program, they might attract enough women to widen the gender gap in voting, which shrank from 14 percent in 1996 to only 7 percent in 2004.

This is an expensive agenda, but the money is there if we end tax cuts for the wealthy and reduce expenditures for unnecessary wars, space-based weapons and the hundreds of American bases that circle the globe. If we also reinstate a progressive tax structure, this wealthy nation would have enough resources to care for all its citizens. It's a question of political will.

Confronting the care crisis and reinvigorating the struggle for gender equality should be central to the broad progressive effort to restore belief in the "common good." Although Americans famously root for the underdog, they have shown far less compassion for the poor, the vulnerable and the homeless in recent years. Social conservatives, moreover, have persuaded many Americans that they -- and not liberals -- are the ones who embody morality, that an activist government is the problem rather than the solution and that good people don't ask for help.

The problem is that many Democrats, along with prominent liberal men in the media, don't view women's lives as part of the common good. Consciously or unconsciously, they have dismissed women as an "interest group" and treated women's struggle for equality as "identity politics" rather than part of a common national project. Last April Michael Tomasky, then editor of The American Prospect, penned an essay on the "common good" that is typical of such manifestoes. It never once addressed any aspect of the care crisis. Such writers don't seem to grasp that a campaign to end the care crisis could mobilize massive support for this idea of the common good, because it affects almost all working families.

Now that Democrats are emerging from the wilderness, there are scattered indications they are willing to use their power to address the mounting care crisis. The Congressional Caucus for Women's Issues, one of the largest caucuses, has access to Speaker Nancy Pelosi, who has supported previous efforts to address the care crisis. The Senate has just created a new Caucus on Children, Work and Family, a sign, says Valerie Young, a lobbyist with the National Association of Mothers' Centers, that "this is no longer a personal problem -- it's a national problem." Connecticut Senator Chris Dodd says he will introduce legislation that would provide paid leave for workers who need to care for sick family members, newborns or newly adopted children. Senator Pat Roberts of Kansas has just introduced the Small Business Child Care Act, which would help employers provide childcare for their workers. Members in both houses of Congress are reopening the discussion of universal healthcare reform.

The truth is, we're living with the legacy of an unfinished gender revolution. Real equality for women, who increasingly work outside the home, requires that liberals place the care crisis at the core of their agenda and take back "family values" from the right. So far, no presidential candidate has made the care crisis a significant part of his or her political agenda. So it's up to us, the millions of Americans who experience the care crisis every day, to take every opportunity -- through electoral campaigns and grassroots activism -- to turn "the problem that has no name" into a household word.

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See more stories tagged with: women, children, working moms, family values, feminine mystique

Ruth Rosen is a historian and journalist who teaches public policy at UC Berkeley. She is a senior fellow at the Longview Institute.

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this article raises a few questions...
Posted by: underground on Feb 27, 2007 1:23 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
this whole phenomenon is bizarre.

why would a woman who works 40 hours per week decide to have a child that requires at least another 40 to 60 (maybe more?) hours per week of care? it just doesn't seem very well thought out. of course exhaustion will set in.

let me ask another question: why would a couple (where each person is working 40 hours per week) decide to have a baby (or babies) that require(s) 40, 50, 60 hours per week of care? does that seem intelligent?

There simply arent enough hours in the week to do all that work and caring and stay healthy and sane.

here's another question: how common is it that someone is taking care of their parents *and* their children at the same time? let's say the grandparents are 80 when they start needing help eating and bathing, that would make the typical parents around 50, which would make the typical kids around 20. Why is a 50 yr old taking care of a 20 yr old?

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» Shey Posted by: underground
Subsidizing other people's kids
Posted by: kepstein7777 on Feb 27, 2007 3:18 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why should people who don't want kids have to pay for the child care of those who do? And if they did subsidize child raising, more people would have kids, contributing to overpopulation, and taxing the system even more.

Subsidized elder care sounds ok, since almost everybody has parents and almost everybody gets old.

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» well... Posted by: JoshuaLudd
» Public schools Posted by: Donna_Darko
» Underground- Posted by: WitchyNy
Japan's "solution"
Posted by: akai ringo on Feb 27, 2007 3:42 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Japan, where I now live, has found one "solution", although whether the outcome can be classed as an improvement is debatable. From the late 1960s, when women entered higher education institutions in steadily increasing numbers, women's career aspirations rose. And when they found that increasingly raising children and having a worthwhile career were incompatible, many of them simply decided to say now to having children. On the one hand, the opportunities for sexual intercourse, with an increasingly tenuous link to procreation, were much greater, while on the other hand, Japanese men were by and large unwilling or unable to assume a proportianately greater role in childcare. After many years of steady decline, the total fertility rate has now sunk to an all-time low of 1.26 in 2005, and the decline continues. Women are still discriminated against in many sectors of employment, but the situation is improving. Of course, a graying society has drawbacks, but it is arguably, more healthy.
Whether or not American women decide to follow suit is, I guess, up to them.

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Are there any intelligent women reading this?
Posted by: hannah on Feb 27, 2007 3:43 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So far, all I have read are comments from men who are stuck in the 50's, whether they are old enough to be or not. It's your mentalities, gentlemen, that makes more and more enlightened young couples want to move to Europe or Canada.

I am an administrative person, working with an office full of professional-level folks, to include men and women. Come meeting time, when lunches and coffee need to be provided, who are naturally "expected" to do this type of work? Come luncheon time for a coworker, who is "expected" to coordinate this type of non-work-related activity? Right you are! WOMEN! Very few men actually pitch in with these types of activities, and when they do, they expect huge kudos. This is the norm.

The good old boy mentality is in full swing in this country. Never has changed, never will.

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» Yeah... never changed.... Posted by: JoshuaLudd
» You're not wrong ... Posted by: AdamSelene40
» You're not wrong ... Posted by: AdamSelene40
» Pitch in at your own danger Posted by: YogiBear
Every time I see an article like this...
Posted by: Logic's Edge on Feb 27, 2007 4:26 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I want to ask: why don't women then set up corporations of their own. All female. Since men are the source of all evil in your worldview, why don't you set up all-female businesses. Wouldn't you be in paradise?

What is stopping you???

Anyhow, since nothing less than having your cake and eating it both will satisfy you, I suggest this:

Throw the weight of your voices into research into human life extension. It's not as far away or implausible as you might initially think.

Then you can have your kids, raise them with full attention, and have an entire career as well, serially. Sounds good?

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Whinge, Whinge, Bitch and more Whingin !
Posted by: itchyvet on Feb 27, 2007 4:35 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
C'mon women, give it a break.
Haven't you heard, it's the 21 st Century, you've got everything you've ever demanded, and you're STILL not happy.
DUH ! maybe you've got just a little too much, too easily hey ?
Maybe you should emigrate to some African or Asian nation and try life from their perspective for a short while, just to see how well off you really are ?
Despite what you've been told, YOU CAN'T HAVE IT ALL.
You can either have a happy, thriving family life with good interpersonal relationships, or non of the above and a good office/working relationship.
To have BOTH, is very rare indeed, and even then I suspect, there are still countless women who are still not satisfied.
Maybe people's expectations are just a little out of kilter here ?

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Make your cake and eat it too?
Posted by: edsmith on Feb 27, 2007 6:03 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
With women like Hillery and Condo Rice in power, who speak and act tough, as if they want to prove that even though they don't have balls they do indeed have balls, ya think things are gonna change? If more powerful women were like Maxine Waters and Nancy Pelosi maybe things will change. Untill then, look for the Rick Sanitoriums of the world to keep men in line with the 17th century.

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It Will Never Stop
Posted by: gellero on Feb 27, 2007 6:10 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Perhaps it will end when women stop demanding Alimony from men and stop demanding child support when they cohabit with boyfriends or get remarried.

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» OR ..... Posted by: krystal
» RE: OR ..... Posted by: MartianBachelor
» REALLY????? Posted by: gellero
» RE: OR ..... Posted by: EagleMB
» RE: It Will Never Stop Posted by: nise52
» RE: It Will Never Stop Posted by: hms2004
» IT'S ABOUT PRO CHOICE Posted by: gellero
provider
Posted by: Annette on Feb 27, 2007 6:16 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Now that we have heard from the wife beater, the racist, the retired Republican, the child hater and all manner of women haters. Let the games begin.

THESE ARE THE PEOPLE WE WILL NEED TO IGNORE!

Oh and I forgot. There are also the women who hate feminists because they hate themselves because they are women. These are the most pathetic of all. We need our own "Angels in America" to speak to this huge problem.

Fantastic article, focussed and concise. Real.

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» RE: provider Posted by: cmaciain
» RE: provider Posted by: hms2004
» well said Posted by: MartianBachelor
» RE: provider Posted by: Jordon
» RE: provider *You go, Annette* Posted by: maribelle
» RE: provider *You go, Annette* Posted by: nazrafel
» AS ALWAYS Posted by: gellero
» RE: greetings sister Posted by: off-the-radar 2
"social safety net"
Posted by: veggiegrrrl on Feb 27, 2007 6:55 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We all hope there will be a "social safety net" for US when we need it but we don't want to pay for someone else's "social safety net." I don't have kids, nobody is going to be taking care of me. Do I hope there is a social safety net when I'm 80? Of course I do! Do I bitch and moan about taxes going to subsidize others? Of course I do. Where is the win-win?

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» for MRS Posted by: veggiegrrrl
Article hits home but misses an important point
Posted by: johnecolby on Feb 27, 2007 7:16 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The article lays out a compelling case, one which some men on this forum do not want to hear.

I pose another question: should women wait for the government, which is mostly run by white males (or women who don't neccesarily share non-elite women's values), to solve this dilemma? In a way, the feminist revolution was both about relating differently to oneself (as a woman) and about self-empowerment. What ways can women faced with a society which squeezes them into roles and lives whose time has long past regain their power to change this from below instead of above? Waiting for the government or the larger society, whose interests and concerns are largely antithetical to women's, to adapt to more progressive concepts of women's rights to live as they choose, is going to be an endless wait.

Consider Lysistrata, an ancient Greek comedy by Aristophanes. The title character persuades the women of Athens and Sparta, which are at war, to refuse sexual contact with their husbands until the two cities make peace. It worked spectacularly.

Be aware of the choices you make which allow these conditions to continue and imagine what *you* can do to affect change.

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» You miss the point... Posted by: Aufklaerung_Baboon
It's about socialism, dummy!
Posted by: mandiwrite on Feb 27, 2007 7:20 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Is this about middle class women/American women/white women? No, it's the universal lot of women. I care for my aged parents. The woman next door works to care for her kids, doing both her day job and her night job of homework, washing, cooking etc. Down the road, in a very poor 'squatter' camp, the grannies are now caring for the kids, because, in a southern Africa afflicted by AIDS, the parents have died. And - here's the point - there is no (or rather, a very small) social security net. Heaven, to my mind, is Denmark. A country that set off down the route to socialist democracy a long time ago, in which it was realised that the state is there to provide safety for the young and the aged. A country in which men simply take it for granted that they, too, are parents and thus EQUALLY responsible for their offspring. You and I could have countries like that, too. WE JUST HAVE TO VOTE FOR IT! Capitalism is not the be-all and end-all, y'know. Socialism can be implemented in an adapted form that gives us a more caring, more equitable society. And it's good for all of us, not just women!

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» Sounds great but ------ Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: Sounds great but ------ Posted by: hms2004
What a crock!
Posted by: cindyH on Feb 27, 2007 7:23 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In my experience, it's the MEN who are working the harder jobs, traveling for work, then getting home exhausted and then cooking, cleaning, and doing housework. Women have it made these days - they have men doing everything! Many of my girlfriends - even some WHO SIT AT HOME ALL DAY - expect the men to come home and handle the baby, cook etc while they go to the gym etc. because hey, THEY WERE WITH THE BABY ALL DAY! No mention that while they were with the baby, they were at the pool, out for coffee with their girlfriends, or shopping with their mothers.

And this is attitude is being brainwashed to the culture at large. Just look at most TV shows and movies today. It's the MEN who are cooking, doting on the baby, and working jobs while the women strut around live the slave masters.

This article might have been relevant 20 years ago, but today it's men who have the lousy deal.

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» RE: What a crock! Posted by: meprieb
» RE: What a crock! Posted by: CyberKat
» RE: What a crock! Posted by: mcubed
» RE: What a crock! -oops Posted by: mcubed
» RE: What a crock! Posted by: MartianBachelor
Stop buying "super mom" magazines...
Posted by: nise52 on Feb 27, 2007 7:31 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As a mother/grandmother who worked all of my adult life, I can see (from experience) that there is no such thing as a working mom with a life! The whole time I was raising my daughter, and working a FT job, was a blur. My husband used the excuse "I have to work" to explain why he was gone for 10-12 hours/day. Our daughter got sick..I took off, not him. Why didn't he re-arrange his hours or get a different job so he could help more with our child? Because WOMEN are expected to do that in this country!

Women need to do 2 things...stop having babies if they would rather have a career (which I'm all for) and stop buying those crappy "you can work and be a super-mom" magazines. It can't be done, ladies....give it up!

Oh, and btw...the 1950's mentality of "stay at home" moms was an aberration...women worked BEFORE and AFTER the 1950's. Pull your head out of the sand, America!

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Don't Believe The Hype, Women Have All The Jobs
Posted by: hole11 on Feb 27, 2007 7:40 AM   
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There are more women in the US than men. More men are behind bars than women. More men are in the military than women. So in the US the women have the most jobs. Go to a restaurant and look how many men work there. Go to a grocery store or department store other than Home Depot and look how many women work there compared to men. Go to a school and see how many women teachers are there compared to men. Go to a hospital and see how many women are employed compared to men. Same goes for any health care facility.

Men probably own the auto repair jobs, some doctors, lawyers, road work/repair and construction jobs.

The only men living in the 50's are retirees.

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» Wage Gap? Posted by: hole11
» RE: Wage Gap? Posted by: EagleMB
YOUR PLATE IS FULL AND YOUR CUP RUNNETH OVER
Posted by: VZEQICVA on Feb 27, 2007 7:51 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Women seem unable or unwilling to join forces.I don't mean support groups. Women refuse to go to bat for each other. You'll see it in these comments. Filled with critcism for each other.Having so much in common and unable to find the common good. Men do not humiliate each other. Their magazines are not dedicted to their shortcomings and collective guilt. They don't criticize each other.There's something to be learned from them. Thanks, ANNA

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» Have a beer Posted by: Donna_Darko
» Here's a solution... Posted by: Aufklaerung_Baboon
90% of the time, it's the woman who wants the baby.
Posted by: cindyH on Feb 27, 2007 7:55 AM   
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How many men REALLY want a kid? How many REALLY want their wives to loose all interest in sex, develop huge hemorroids, and loose their attractive body? How many REALLY want to spend their weekends at depressing kid "events?"

Face it: it's women who want the kids, so it's women who get the honors of taking the lead.

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» Warped. Posted by: Bev
Going Back to Basics
Posted by: elderwoman.org on Feb 27, 2007 7:57 AM   
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Does anyone know how many women work outside the home purely out of choice? I know that many do. I also know that there are many who don't. They go out to work because there is no other way to feed their families.
The problem, as I see it, is that caring for children in one's own home is not regarded as 'work'. Ivan Illich referred to it -- and to many of the other things women do -- as 'shadow work'. In other words, work which does not show up in the GNP.
The only way that parents can have REAL choice is if we go right back to basics, scrap our ridiculous methods for defining what 'work' is and is not, and re-classify full-time parenting as full-time work.
To my mind, the best solution would be to implement a system of guaranteed minimum income. Without something like that, this issue will never go away and we shall still be droning on about it for years.

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» RE: Going Back to Basics Posted by: MartianBachelor
» RE: working by choice Posted by: AmyB
» RE: Going Back to Basics Posted by: look around-like what u see?
Eh
Posted by: spencerh on Feb 27, 2007 8:22 AM   
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Though most childfree people are in the workforce, Americans remain trapped in a time warp, convinced that the childfree should and will pick up the slack for their reproducing co-workers when they have to leave early or take time off. When will policy catch up?

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» RE: Eh Posted by: Shey
Single Mother in the Closet
Posted by: lynned2002 on Feb 27, 2007 8:22 AM   
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A big part of the problem for single mothers is that they are still looked down upon as second class citizens and are somehow responsible for their plight and therefore deserve what they get. Being a low income single parent in this country is a nightmare. Being a middle income single parent is still a bad dream, and a lonely one at that.

We have to invest in our children in this country as part of the infrastructure that builds a strong and healthy society. This means education through college and subsidized, yes I said subsidized, quality day care.

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Help from Democrats? (LOL)
Posted by: Lincoln fan on Feb 27, 2007 8:43 AM   
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Now that the Democrats are running both houses of Congress, we finally have an opportunity to expose the Right's cynical appropriation of "family values" by creating real solutions to the care crisis and making them central to the Democratic agenda. The obstacles, of course, are formidable, given that government and businesses -- as well as many men -- have found it profitable and convenient for women to shoulder the burden of housework and caregiving.

I fear that it's a mistake to put yout hope in the Democrats. The corporatocracy runs both parties. Big business has no interest in paying taxes to support services that are in the public interest. That is the reason for the big push to privatize all public services.

I think that the answer is a grassroots movement with a new political strategy. Look into The Lincoln Initiative. It's a great project for any activist organization. Costs nothing but a little spare time.
Bob Reichenbach,
Director, The Lincoln Initiative.

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Great article
Posted by: Donna_Darko on Feb 27, 2007 9:11 AM   
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It covers a lot of terrain. Thank you, Ruth Rosen.

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Choose Wisely
Posted by: NoPCZone on Feb 27, 2007 9:51 AM   
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It may be anecdotal, but behind the story the stats will bear me out. Many women do no marry the kind of man that they say they desire, I would contend a significant number. Let me tell you why I say this.

I work in healthcare in a work environment probably 70%+ female and have for well over 20 years. We see students doing their clinical internships from local colleges and Universities in the various health professions all the way from Nurses to M.D.'s, so we are not talking about uneducated women. The pattern that I see repeating over and over and over again is women getting involved with/living with/marrying men that are the polar opposite of what they have time and time again said they want in a boyfriend/lover/mate/husband. The frequency and consistency is nothing short of amazing.

When you meet/are introduced to their latest or intended, afterward you always get the question: 'Well, what do you think?" and I usually bite my tongue. When you see them date a nice guy that is supportive, intelligent, well educated, etc., it invariably dies off. Item next, the guy who caused them to dump the nice guy is some bad boy, player, whatever type (you know what I mean) that is a Cro-Magnon with a degree in a suit. I need not detail what ends up happening.

I think most women's mental picture of what they want and what they viscerally want is very different. Chalk it up to whatever, but the girls that stick with the nice guys usually are happier and in a LTR while the others bounce from guy to guy, looking for Mr. Goodbar. After a season or two of this from any one person you begin to wonder if you should really say something when it comes up next. You want to be a friend, but not a buttinski.

Bottom Line, ladies:

If you want a supportive man that carries his share and supports you through thick and thin- marry one. More often than not, you are not going to change them. Lions do not become tigers, cheetahs, pumas or leopards and they sure do not become doves. If you date some guy who attracts you visually but treats you like trash, guess what you can expect in any commitment/LTR/marriage. There are a lot of duds out there and many are very good at hiding it for a season. Be careful and be happy.

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» RE: Choose Wisely Posted by: cindyH
» RE: Choose Wisely Posted by: hlautey
» RE: Choose Wisely Posted by: Sushi
» Kills me to admit it Posted by: Mewsician
Why working women...
Posted by: badkitty on Feb 27, 2007 9:56 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Ah, Ruth Rosen... Back in January 1969, the women in the Radical Student Union at UC Berkeley held their first women's meetings. I don't think Ruth was one of them, but there were a number who were like her. A common thread was how bored and unhappy their mothers were by raising children. As someone who worked her way through school as a live-in babysitter, I was struck by the total unreality of the belief of these women that THEY could hold a full-time job and raise children at the same time. As a matter of fact, this was the way I would define slavery. It took me years to find someone who wanted me to stay home and raise our son, and we still live at a very modest level, but at least I did not have to choose between a job and depriving my son of attention he needed (and, of course, taking care of my mother, who had Alzheimers). The plain fact is that running a house and raising children is a full-time job, way more than working eight hours a day for a company, and people just don't want to recognize it. You might be able to run a house and live a decent life while working full-time without children, especially if you have help from your partner, but with kids, it's just way harder than most people would like it to be.

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» RE: Why working women... Posted by: look around-like what u see?
» RE: Why working women... Posted by: VZEQICVA
provider?
Posted by: greymoon on Feb 27, 2007 10:11 AM   
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I think the posters to this thread are missing a point. Rearing children in a competent, loving, productive way requires input. Eight hours a day does not do it. When women add in a 40 hour a week job, they rarely get any of the child rearing compensated by a partner. They just do it all.
Don't tell me that women sit around watching money grow on trees at work any more than men do. Don't tell me that all women who work can afford childcare and a maid. It just doesn't happen. Since most women still earn less than men at the same jobs (because women are the ones who "take time off" - love that phrase - to have babies) how can this even be expected?
Until men start picking up their end of childrearing and housework (which does happen in my house) on a regular basis, there will continue to be women "whining" because they have to do twice the work that men do for 77% of the pay.
Simple.

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» RE: provider? Posted by: MRS
Here's a clue
Posted by: MartianBachelor on Feb 27, 2007 10:26 AM   
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> Although we read endless stories and report
> about the problems faced by working women...

Right, and when was the last time anyone wrote an article about the problems faced by working men?

Oh, that's right, there hasn't been one, even though men work more hours, die on the job about ten times more often, commit suicide 4-5 times more often, live 5-6 year less, etc., etc.

Almost all the demographic indicators are on women's side, but they're congenitally unhappy, now more than ever. Hence the ceaseless nagathon, now that the social controls which used to contain such unpleasantness are OFF.

The only "care crisis" we're suffering from is caring about women too much. But to care about women more than men is only human nature, which is to say it's a base impulse which women are now shameless about exploiting for their own gain.

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» RE: Here's a clue Posted by: look around-like what u see?
All about the money
Posted by: hlautey on Feb 27, 2007 10:34 AM   
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How can the government expect to pay for healthcare and childcare for all when our tax dollars primarily only pay the interest on the National Debt? Our nation lives on borrowed money, borrowed from the FED, which is not part of the government at all, but rather a group of banks and the men behind them. Reform begins with the government becoming responsible for the money supply and not at the mercy of the FED. The borrower is the SLAVE of the lender. Our country is the slave of the banks.

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Wives without a job "...leave one financially dependent on another person."
Posted by: Sojourner on Feb 27, 2007 10:48 AM   
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No, it leaves one financially dependent on "the family." The answer is healthy families.

The curse of narcissism is perpetuated by the women vs. men tone that parades as feminism. Unfortunately, it has achieved the independence of women (in my day it was called the epidemic of divorce). What is clear is that divorce may be an answer to abuse but not to healthy families.

Offering men the option--we will have children, I will have an independent income from work--has produced a pattern of single moms (don't they always get custody from the judge?) So cut out the crap about who ought to do what.

Feminism is and has always been a struggle for money, cash, paychecks. See how many feminist activists never mention it again if they get a job that satisfies them. Sisters gotta get it on their own.

"Dependent on another person" is called a family. No wonder the Right has been allowed to claim family values. Feminism as expressed in this article is anti-family. That has nothing to do with whether one works, whether one has children; it has everything to do with whether one is a family.

Thoughtful women do not join in the blaming and shaming of men, neither in the family nor in public. It stopped being funny a long time ago. Doris Lessing pointed out that when women claim "the right," justified by their special status as childbearers, to punish men, they can expect blowback. Guess what? You can write laws from now to doomsday, and that will not change.

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What underground doesn't understand...
Posted by: aebartle on Feb 27, 2007 11:20 AM   
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...is that, evolutionarily speaking, we are put on this earth to have children. People do choose not to do that, and that is fine, but ultimately, most people will have children at some point. And since it is practically impossible to raise a family, or even maintain a two-person household, on a single income these days, both parents must work to make ends meet. So, since most people will at one time or another have children, and most of the time, both parents must be wage earners, well, you draw your own conclusions. Essentially, underground is saying that, unless one can afford to have one parent stay home with the children, one should not have children. Which means that only the elite will have children. That seems very elitist to me.

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Obviously I do or I wouldn't have made that comment.
Posted by: spencerh on Feb 27, 2007 12:12 PM   
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Not sure what you're on about.

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Capitalism is the problem..what is the question?
Posted by: WitchyNy on Feb 27, 2007 12:24 PM   
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So are we going to stop having kids? Or should only the wealthy have kids?

Capitalism is based on everyone having 'jobs'. So should the kids work too...as they do in 3rd world countries? That was how it was when the industrial revolution came along. Little kids working all day in factories.

We are all working to make the rich richer. THEY don't work..they have stocks and bonds...and collect interest.

Don't you see ...the capitalist system is the problem...we need to change EVERYTHING. 40+ hour a week JOBS-what does that mean?

Is it meaningful necessary work?-or is it just a way to keep the machine going-to make the rich ever richer..and further pollute our environment with useless plastic junk.

And keep us all too tired and worn out and full of pills and booze and fighting with each other...to organize and revolt as we should.

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» And Then???? Posted by: gellero
» RE: And Then???? Posted by: WitchyNy
What feminism really is
Posted by: darkgrrrl on Feb 27, 2007 12:47 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There's a lot of assumptions in the comments here about what the goals of feminism are. Those assumptions cause the discussion to become divisive, the participants splitting into factions: men vs. women, me vs. you.

My definition of feminism is the pursuit of equal economic, social, and political rights for everyone. All people should be treated equally by law and policy regardless of race, color, creed, religion, national origin, sex, gender, marital status, child status, and sexual orientation.

"Single mothers naturally suffer the most from the care crisis." Yes, this article focuses on how the struggle to balance work and family affects American women, as opposed to all Americans with children inclusively. One reason for this - Single-mother families increased from 3 million in 1970 to 10 million in 2003, while the number of single-father families grew from less than half a million to 2 million (2003 CPS, U.S. Census Bureau). Far more women than men are single parents.

However, to me these are universal issues. Everyone who wants to have children and work has to deal with these questions of balance. And that is why I find it disheartening to see the immediate divisions, men vs. women, me vs. you - because we should all be working toward our common goals: universal child care, universal health care (including abortion and contraception), guaranteed paid sick leave, guaranteed paid maternity/paternity leave. These things would greatly benefit all Americans.

The sooner we stop criticizing and start respecting each other, the sooner we can direct that energy toward stopping our government's multi-hundred-billion-dollar efforts to conquer the world and dispatch our civil liberties. Only then can we pursue with conviction the necessary restructuring of American social policies.

That is how we start building strong American families.

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» RE: What feminism really is Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: Doh! Posted by: MartianBachelor
» can men be feminists? Posted by: off-the-radar 2
» RE: can men be feminists? Posted by: darkgrrrl
» RE: What feminism really is Posted by: MartianBachelor
» RE: What feminism really is Posted by: darkgrrrl
Framing the issue
Posted by: fork on Feb 27, 2007 1:34 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is an excellent article, but I do have one quibble. There will be no real change as long as the care crisis is viewed as a woman's problem. "How do we make it easier for women to keep shouldering the burden?" is the wrong question. And while the article did make this point, it was buried in the middle; the beginning referred to the care crisis as a woman's problem.

Whenever we discuss this issue, we should stay focused on the fact that men are not doing their share. This is not a women's problem (women are holding their end up, and then some) - it is a men's problem. When we start to expect men to shoulder their share of family responsibilities is when governments and corporations will start changing their policies to accomodate these requirements. And they are requirements - somebody has to do it and this needs to be acknowledged. Until then, we'll just have more of the same, and we are, in effect, allowing and encouraging "government and businesses -- as well as many men -- (to find) it profitable and convenient for women to shoulder the burden of housework and caregiving."

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» RE: Framing the issue Posted by: wagadog
all bs
Posted by: pg on Feb 27, 2007 1:53 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I read a few complaints about "why should I childless pay for others childeren?"

Well thats the "progressive way" buying poor folks votes by promising to take from the rich and give to the poor.

My wife was miserable working the first three years of our first childs life and guilt ridden that she was not raising our
child because she had to work.

Why did she have to work? Because we insisted on a life we could not really afford.

She is much happier now giving her full attention to her childeren.

This article is hog wash. I suggest career minded women do the progressive thing and just scrape the problem out of their womb.

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» Kudos to you and your wife Posted by: lwbaby
Free Vasectomies for All
Posted by: panisse on Feb 27, 2007 2:11 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It appears, from many of these comments, that the real problem facing society is that so many men have been forced, against their will, to father children. If we are talking about using government to forward the greater good, then perhaps we should advance a program offering free vasectomies to every man without insurance, or whose heath plan does not already cover this procedure.

Until then, we need to make blow-up dolls a socially acceptable part of every happy bachelor's household. Hate women? Stay away from them. Don't want kids? Stay away from fertile women until you get snipped. Guys, children don't have to happen to you!

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» RE: Free Vasectomies for All Posted by: underground
interesting stuff
Posted by: DaBear on Feb 27, 2007 2:30 PM   
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Glad to have read this very lengthy piece. Whenever I read someone (so obviously able to examine an issue pretty thoroughly) who tries so hard to lean on the Dims for a shift in policy... I just thow up my hands and walk away. We might as well expect a "Peace Dept." from the GOP convention. Yeah, that's really gonna happen.

The comments thus far seem not much more than the same old tired stuff: women blaming men, blaming each other, men blaming women back and whining about being blamed. Okay, so much for progress.

I'd say nothing will change until there's Proportional Representation and the Green Party has a voice-in-power but then again, after being in the GPCA and GPUS for a decade, women there still blame men and some men are indeed still mindless unconscious schmucks.

I can only conclude that nobody's perfect, but one still has to try to push on and make the coffee for everybody (thankfully I like to make coffee) otherwise nothing will get done with everyone bitchin' and moanin' that nothin's gittin' done...

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AMERICAN EMPIRE IS THE REAL PROBLEM
Posted by: sofla100 on Feb 27, 2007 2:32 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The problem isn't enough taxes, the problem isn't that people don't want subsidized daycare or universal health care, the problem is once again, America's priorities. Defense and defense related spending is already 1/3rd the real federal budget and growing. A war in Iraq will consume over $1 trillion US and much more over time. America's military spending is already more then all the other countries of the world spend on their own militaries combined and it keeps growing. Meanwhile, the sun never sets on American military personnel around the world. Munition storage points with tons of conventional and WMD's are covertly stockpiled in countries around the world for "potential" use by American military personnel. And, a President plans for war with Iran and insists on further tax cuts for the rich. Of course, my friends we cannot aford to feed and house our own people. We cannot afford to care for the sick and the poor. We can only protect the empire. Protect America's top 10% that owns 90% of everything. It's the American way.

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bravo Ruth Rosen
Posted by: marykderr on Feb 27, 2007 5:48 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Ruth Rosen, thank you for this good-sense article. It is sad how many of the comments here are derogatory and based on the same old dismissive stereotypes of feminists and anyone else who dares to assert that lifesaving, lifeaffirming care for human beings is a *public* issue that concerns us all, not a solely private one.

These stereotypes get in the way of seeing and resolving the unnecessary, utterly burdensome problems that trash the lives and quality of life every day for so many Americans.

I invite anyone interested in these issues to look at the Clearinghouse on International Developments in Child, Youth, and Family Policies, www.childpolicyintl.org/policies.html

The data there shows how poorly the US deals with its children, mothers, & other vulnerable citizens compared to other countries.

I have friends from other well-off, democratic countries where basic human entitlements to family supports are just taken as a given *across the whole political spectrum.*
They are appalled or bewildered that Americans don't have these policies despite the obvious trouble that ensues, and even more that there is such violent resistance to anyone who dares suggest the need for the missing policies.


Mary Krane Derr

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» Thanks for the stats Posted by: Sojourner
a lot of folks are missing the point.
Posted by: getweirder on Feb 27, 2007 6:04 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Some of you seem to be arguing about who is doing more work, the men or the women, or the rich or the poor. That's not exactly the argument here. This article is about subsidizing part of the future of this country. It's kind of like paying taxes for building bridges or getting your mail to your house on time. Children and the elderly are part of the infrastructure of this country and we as working aged citizens should do our part in protecting their present and their future. And YOUR future, seeing as we will all one day also be old, feeble and unable to care for ourselves. Therefore, it is up to us to establish a system that will care for us when we are in that situation. I've also read a lot of grumbles about people 'having their cake and eating it too' or being unappreciative of what they have, but SERIOUSLY, when in the course of human history have we ever been content with the status quo? That's what has brought us here today, and it's the same motivation that will propel us into the future, YEA?

As the working-able citizens of this country we should to everything possible to preserve the integrity of the old and the young. They do matter, even if they are in the peripheral of the American money-making machine.

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ABOLISH THE NUCLEAR FAMILY & REQUIRE EUTHANASIA FOR THE BEDRIDDEN ELDERLY
Posted by: Aufklaerung_Baboon on Feb 27, 2007 6:05 PM   
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Well, if dire situations call for 'radical' solutions, I have some for you all.

Abolish the nuclear family entirely and raise ALL children COMMUNALLY so that they have no clue who their parents or relatives are because the ENTIRE COMMUNITY then becomes their parents/relatives -- this frees up both women and men at the same time. It's not only 'communists' that advocate this, but also Plato in THE REPUBLIC and other progressive thinkers. Many societies that we Westerners consider 'primitive' also do this, notably in Africa (which is the cradle of humankind and thus reflect humanity's deepest impulses and living patterns).

Once chimpanzees (the closest DNA relatives of humans, our 'animal cousins') get past a certain age and are weaned off of the milk of their mothers they are also raised by the community, so it seems that this is the way that is closest to our most primal, basic, and sustainable instincts. Since the whole community would them be raising all of the kids of the entire community, this relieves both women and men of the personal 'chore' of raising children, and men and women will then be free to explore multiple personal bonds/relationships outside of the restrictive 'sanctity' of one-man/one-woman marriages. It will help kids and ALL people to be more community oriented and not as selfish.

Also, elderly people that are a drain on the system (dementia, bedridden, crazed, those afflicted with incurable diseases resulting in slow deaths, etc etc.) should be euthanized (suicide rates are still fairly high amongst the elderly [but in the past they were MUCH higher], as if they are euthanizing themselves). You bleeding heart types may not believe this to be 'humane,' but if you think about keeping elderly people alive that believe that they are living back in 1933 or cannot even get out of bed to use the bathroom it is criminal to keep these pathetic invalids alive. To be 'alive' under such circumstances is by far a fate worse than a clean, quick, and painless death. Those elderly people that are still very sharp, useful, and contribute to society can of course continue to live, but once they pass the threshold of usefulness and lapse in to dementia or become bedridden it will be time to humanely put them down; after a few generations of this practice the general population will think nothing of the 'morals' of it and it will be widely accepted as the norm, the only acceptable and humane solution.

Obviously not ALL elderly people should be euthanized, only those that have totally lost their mind and are too sick or weak to get out of bed, because face it these people are nothing more than a drain on the system. They made their contribution to society and this should be celebrated, but to keep these people alive far beyond the point of their personal usefulness or sanity is not only idiotic but immoral.


Many will think these ideas radical, subversive, un-Western, or even dangerous, but trust me I could go much more radical than this. And you people thought you were 'left wing'...you people got nothing on me!

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» Got Nothing? Posted by: marykderr
» Got Nothing? Posted by: marykderr
"American Empire" and "Bravo Ruth Rosen"
Posted by: Shey on Feb 27, 2007 6:06 PM   
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Finally, a couple of comments that hit the nail on the head. The most pertinent question in Ms. Rosen's excellent article is on the main page, but not in the article, and that is "When will policy catch up?". The answer is, when Democratic candidates for public office, and especially the presidency, have the courage to acknowledge the problems expressed in this article, knowing that they will be branded "socialist's" for doing so. And to acknowledge that our so called Democracy has turned into a Plutocracy and is dangerously close to crossing the line to becoming a full-on Dictatorship.
Who is going to do this, Hilary Clinton? I think not, since her husband's "Welfare Reforn Act" is one of the roots of the problem. How many of the former "working poor" are now "working homeless", primarily because of this act and the doors it opened? The most successful myth ever perputrated on the public by the Ultra Right Wing Fundamentalist Conservatives who now run this country is that Bill Clinton is a liberal. And Hilary is exactly the same kind of political animal, an opportunist who gives lip service to liberal/progressive values but who will, when all is said and done, go where the money and power is.
The only candidate I see out there who may have the courage to listen to the problems expressed in this article, learn from it and actually try to incorperate this civilized vision into his agenda, is John Edwards.

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LOL
Posted by: gellero on Feb 27, 2007 7:42 PM   
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Maribell......you fall for this everytime....

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I saw Logan's Run too...
Posted by: doctorsquared on Feb 27, 2007 10:39 PM   
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and didn't they waste everyone after their 30th?

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Rosen and Corporate Feminism is in the Time Warp
Posted by: charlesuchu on Feb 28, 2007 4:58 AM   
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I truly don't understand how Corporate Feminism is still the talk of the day for the elite. It's time for all of us, women, men, children, transgendered people, of all nations to say no to management of our lives by the Corporatocracy and Government.

It is time to return to a simpler life. People working from home. Men, women, and the village being part of raising our children.

No more hired agent childcare as a benefit. This does nothing to benefit the children and their growth.

Wholism, Earth, Peace

No more corporatism ruling anyone's life.

We envoke Earth and the Universe and put our Care in our Love.

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UNIVERSAL CHILDCARE???? BULLSHIT!!!!
Posted by: Bev on Feb 28, 2007 6:31 AM   
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I certainly am not for universal childcare, and the movement was not about universal childcare. Anybody who has children, should expect to care for those children. If you do not expect to care for your children personally, then be sure you can afford to pay someone else to care for them. And be sure you can affored to feed and clothe them. If you feel you are not able to do any of these things for your children, DON'T HAVE THEM!!!!

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Always a confrontation
Posted by: Phenix on Feb 28, 2007 9:09 AM   
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"For four decades, American women have entered the paid workforce -- on men's terms, not their own -- yet we have done precious little as a society to restructure the workplace or family life."

I don't have much time to write all that is going through my head after reading this article and skimming or reading the posts but am I the only one who notices the confrontational style of feminist writing?

A lot if not all the feminist writings on this site receive a hostile reception because of its intrinsic hostility to the other half of the human population. I understand that feminism is attacking the "patriarchy" but feminism is a movement of females that seeks to empower women over men.

The short quote I pulled from this article represents this problem in feminist thought at least in my eyes. She throws a jab at men by stating that women entered the workforce on men's term. I don't know if her assertion is true or not. I don't doubt its validity but why put that in her article if she does not want to attack men?

After her quick jab she throws a phantom right by saying that as a society we have not fixed all these ills. When I read this I have trouble believing that she actually includes men in that statement. I have an easier time believing that she believes that women need to force these fixes on men. Maybe that is my bias but I don't see any other reason for that jab other than to reinforce that women are the civilized segment of society that can fix all of our ills if only they had the power to make the necessary changes.

I gotta cut this short. Work calls. If someone responds I'll add more.

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Final Solution for the elder-lovers
Posted by: Ulzo on Feb 28, 2007 12:19 PM   
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Don't want to get rid of the elderly through euthenasia (which is understandable, this idea seems cruel and unusual)? The best solution, to a lighter workd load for parents, is to adopt a policy of vasectomies at birth for every child (Personally, I find this much more appealing than changing the sentiment of the war-horse that is the American economy).

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Bev, learn to read a writer's bias
Posted by: Phenix on Feb 28, 2007 1:02 PM   
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Some helpful quotes from this article will clearly show you that this is a feminist critique of American policies relating to motherhood and a small amount of emphasis is placed on children. The new children's writing is nothing more than an branch of feminist thought. Maybe you did not notice that men had a negative attachment in this article while women were painted as victims. That does not build bridges.

The writer never mentions the power of the union movement that pushed all of this agenda and pulled several candidates to victory. It is also the natural vehicle to effect change in the work place.

Anyway, below is a long list of quotes I pulled from the article that clearly shows that this is a article written from a feminist point of view.


The great accomplishment of the modern women's movement

The consequence of this "stalled revolution," (i.e. feminist revolution) a term coined by sociologist Arlie Hochschild, is a profound "care deficit."

Today the care crisis has replaced the feminine mystique as women's "problem that has no name."

Many young women agonize about how to combine work and family but view the question of how to raise children as a personal dilemma, to which they need to find an individual solution. (not a mention of men who are taking on increased rolls in their children's lives.)

More than a few young women have told me that the lack of affordable childcare has made them reconsider plans to become parents. Annie Tummino, a young feminist active in New York, put it this way: "I feel terrified of the patchwork situation women are forced to rely upon. Many young women are deciding not to have children or waiting until they are well established in their careers." (if this is not a feminist document then why go to a "young feminist" for a quote about problems faced by women instead of talking about the lack of health care, dearth of acceptable pre-schools, and achieving schools?)

the obstacles, of course, are formidable, given that government and businesses -- as well as many men -- have found it profitable and convenient for women to shoulder the burden of housework and caregiving.

-- as well as many men --
-- as well as many men --
-- as well as many men --
-- as well as many men --
-- as well as many men --

Men in dual-income couples have increased their participation in household chores and childcare. (Finally men are thrown a bone!)

Feminists of the 1960s and '70s knew they couldn't do it alone. In fact, they insisted that men share the housework and child-rearing and that government and business subsidize childcare.

The care crisis starkly exposes how much of the feminist agenda of gender equality remains woefully unfinished.

feminist agenda of gender equality
feminist agenda of gender equality

Ever since 1970 the mainstream media have been pronouncing the death of feminism and reporting that working women have returned home to care for their children.

So, she repeatedly mentions the women's movement or feminist agenda yet this is not a feminist writing.... riiiight

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» oops Posted by: Phenix
prioritize and adjust
Posted by: bgamett on Feb 28, 2007 1:28 PM   
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This article and it's posts have my head spinning. Mandatory vasectomies at birth? Scraping the working womans womb? Barbaric. Scary to think there are people like that out there.

I am a 27 year old high school science teacher. I am trained as a Physician Assistant. I choose to teach school so that I can be there more for my child. Just because I am not with my child every minute of every day does not mean I am a "BAD MOTHER". I refuse to let any of you make me feel that way.

My husband is an engineer. However, he is a high school math teacher. He has adjusted his life for the same reasons. When we are at work, my child is left with a grandparent or a great-grandparent (we have many who live close to us). To me, that is invaluable for my child. Kids miss out on so much when their grandparents live hundreds or thousands of miles away. There is no way I can give her everything she needs. There is no way just my husband and I can stimulate her mind as it should be. Children need more than just mommy all day long. It seems that we are so proud that we can't even ask for help or allow someone else to have an impact on our little darlings. Every child I know who is with mommy all day long is clingy and the mother is a wreck (I'm sure that's not the case for all, I'm just speaking from those I know....don't be angry for the sterotype). Living in a place in which you are surrounded by family is how we should all live if at all possible. It's best for kids to feel part of something beyond their own home.

I feel fulfilled in my work. My husband and I are home by 4:00 and feel we are doing the best thing for our child. We work for 40 hours a week for about 8 months out of the year. For 4 months, we are home with our child. I would lie if I said I am never stressed out, but who isn't? We feel we are providing her with a good life and she is a great 3 year old. Life simply can't go on for you as it has in the past after you have children. Things have to be altered and maybe even (God forbid!!!) sacrificed. If they are not, either you or your child or your spouse, or all of you will not be happy. Why live?

I encourage all of you who are living off kilter to find balance as best as you can. If you are unwilling to find that balance, don't reproduce. Why have children to work 50 hours a week 12 months out of the year? I don't see the point.

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The issue of women-hating
Posted by: Logic's Edge on Mar 1, 2007 5:21 AM   
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To go off on a tangent here...

I find it very irksome the way the term misogynist (or more plainly just woman-hater) is applied so freely in these forums.

Can the labelers not understand that there is a distinction between disagreeing with a viewpoint and hating the person stating it? Even when the disagreement is vehement?

The way it comes across is that many of the female posters in these forums simply expect servile agreement from men, regardless of context.

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Misogynists declare women should shut up because men have it bad?
Posted by: Beck on Mar 1, 2007 7:57 AM   
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There are men who seem to read every feminist article on alternet, so they can post how awful men have it, and how good women have it, and women should just be quiet, because they don't know how good they have it.
And yet, illogically, instead of these men working to improve this, even perhaps writing an article they deem is lacking, want women to shut up when women observe imbalances and injustices, as if women acquiescing to the same level of bad circumstances that these posters are declaring exist is at all a good or logical approach to life. Okay, you say men have it bad in this society. And so when a women observes life and decides some aspect is worth a comment she should shut up because you've settled for less and apparently won't try for anything better? Really, you obviously are still quite ruffled at the idea of women even noticing anything you don't want them to, and if they do notice something undesireable you think they should just be quiet? Are you thinking that it can work for you to attempt to tell anyone what to think? And don't most of the posters at alternet whine in some version or other? Isn't every article pretty much about something bothersome, and mostly don't people write to agree or to add their own versions of what is troubling? It only bothers you misogynists when women do it, because you have a truly bizarre idea that women can only think what you approve of. You care about women not at all, let alone too much, and seem to have real problems with anything concerning gender. You'd have given up reading articles that ruffle your feathers on a daily basis long ago, because who keeps bothering with futile attempts at changing the deeply held beliefs of others so vehemently unless something ususual, shall we say, is going on? Someone recommended therapy recently to some of you. Get started. After all, if men are working too much, committing too much suicide, living too short lives, shouldn't men do something differently? Write the articles, dudes, be the impetus. End your ceaseless nagathons.

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» Logic's Edge Posted by: Donna_Darko
» RE: Logic's Edge Posted by: bluetoaster
What's stopping us?
Posted by: sweet_byrd on Mar 1, 2007 12:49 PM   
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"why don't women then set up corporations of their own. All female. Since men are the source of all evil in your worldview, why don't you set up all-female businesses. Wouldn't you be in paradise? What is stopping you???"

Nasty little things called "anti-discrimination laws"

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» RE: What's stopping us? Posted by: Logic's Edge
» RE: What's stopping us? Posted by: bluetoaster
American's rooting for the underdog?
Posted by: janakiblum on Mar 3, 2007 12:35 PM   
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When was that?

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Try being childless in Germany...
Posted by: Aussie Kim on Mar 4, 2007 11:36 PM   
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...you get taxed way more than other people.

In Germany, people pay 20% (?) of their wages into a pension fund that goes straight to pensioners at the time. Therefore, everyone MUST have children so that their kids can fund their pensions.

An Australian friend of mine lives in Germany and pays this exhorbitant tax, which is unbelievably galling to her because she has been trying to have children and has had _5_ miscarriages so far...and has been told point-blank by local authorities that she will never, EVER be able to take advantage of this money when she gets old because she is childless (And probably because she is a foreignor...but that's another, hair-curdling story, believe me...)

Thank GOD we have superannuation here in Australia - we each fund our OWN futures...

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Stuck in the 50s
Posted by: romat on Mar 5, 2007 1:34 PM   
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"...Working Women Are Stuck in the 1950s" -- Add to the list, And guys should pay for dates.

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