AlterNet: I'd just like to commend you all on the excellent deed that your site performed when it stifled discussion and open debate on the recent 9/11 article "Short Changing 9/11: Popular Documentary Takes Us Nowhere"...the message board is now 'sealed off,' stating "Comments closed. The comments for this story have been closed. Thank you to everyone that participated."

Are open message boards just too much for this 'progressive' site to handle?

Good article on FauxNews, by the way.

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Democrats also just need to grow a pair. Almost every democrat i've seen on foxnews has sat silent or sputtered incoherent replies when their ideology is being trampled upon by some ignoramuses with oversized egos. Jane Fleming is an excellent exception. I saw her on Hannity and Colmes last week with Anne Coulter (shudder), where she was not taking it sitting down. When Coulter was unable to answer an actual question from colmes and instead fell back on attacking murtha's record, Fleming called her out on it, and it was awesome.

Sidenote....Does Anne Coulter actually believe what she is saying? She's Ivy-League educated and quite accomplished, so she can't be completely brain-dead. I always just wonder how she is so hateful and single-minded with such an impressive educational and professional history.

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Still I have difficulty understanding US politics and media. I know Fox is the most watched news in the US but I use it in lieu of medication to raise my (low) blood pressure. Go the blogs and Alternet

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I have a confession to make: at least once (sometimes twice) a month, I tune into FOX and Friends. It is a perfect illustrtion as to why the poor bastards who rely on that network for their information are the stupidest people on the planet.

FOX and Friends is a program that was intentionaly designed to keep people ill-informed. Tell you what you can do - if you're reading thins in the morning, turn it on right now. Go ahead! I'll wager you anything that, instead of talking about matters essential (the war in Iraq, for instance) they're talking about Anna Nicole Smith or Britany Spears. Go ahead! Turn it on, I'll wait.......

[PAUSE FOR EFFECT]

What did I tell you! It's awful, isn't it? About three weeks ago, I watched the entire thing and Iraq wasn't even mentioned until almost thiry minuted into the program - AND ONLY IN PASSING! Brian Kilmede - or whatever his name is - said "and we're having some problems there, obviously" AND THAT WAS IT!

FOX News has the higest rating of any cable news network. Is it any wonder why we are the laughingstock of the planet?

Pray for peace.

tom Degan
"The Rant" by Tom Degan

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What else could that statement mean other than he must be the most decent or best that has been offered so far? I am dismayed that I read one of Obama's bigger contributors is ADM (Archer Daniels Midland) and that he is a proponent of ethanol. If somebody has to push a fuel for an internal combustion engine please make it biodiesel made from hemp or algae. From everything I read it is the lesser of the evils. Other than Obama's encouragement for ethanol (most likely derived from corn), I have not seen, read, or heard too much to make me dislike him.

He also needs to campaign to end the war in Iraq. I hope he will show some real integrity and not be complicit in war crimes. We need of government to act humanely and responsibly instead of possibly "Every one of the 535 members of the 110th Congress is liable to face criminal indictment from the International Criminal Court in The Hague if the US uses nuclear weapons in the impending conflict with Iran." We need to end being the criminals and pariahs this article reflects Congress' liability in a nuclear strike on Iran

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Are all guilty of NOT reporting THE TRUTH that America should know!

WAWA is THE ONLY MEDIA in the world who has the 'Thatchers' to stream UNCENSORED video of the Whislteblower of Israel's WMD Program who has been on Trial for
FREEDOM OF SPEECH in a Mid East 'democracy'

Don is certainly correct that:

"if there's one thing bloggers don't hesitate to do, it is calling journalists to account when they have sinned."


But WAWA doesn't condemn you,



WAWA desires to liberate and educate

Because,

Only in Solidarity do "we have it in our power to begin the world again"-Tom Paine

Do Something-
e
WAWA
http://www.wearewideawake.org/

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In the Pocket book!

The Simpsons and other so-called progressive animation shows should pull themselves off FOX. They probably rationalize having their shows on FOX by thinking they'll fight the man from within.

What decent progressive would want to support FOX?

Harry Shearer must think his Le Show lets him off the hook.

This is serious business, though, and these weakling progressives need to pull their popular shows off FOX.

I've rejected right-wing clients from my computer business after they touted the wonders of Bush.

Can YOU imagine having YOUR show on FOX?

I wouldn't be surprised if Harry Shearer and Matt Groening set in the 1930s in Germany would be totally happy having their shows on Nazi TV if TV had been around then.

Their shows need to be pushed HARD to pull themselves off the air, even if it means violating their contracts.

If U.S. soldiers can bravely die for a pack of lies in Iraq, Harry Shearer and Co. should sacrifice their fat payoff-checks for the truth.

Money and their mortages have them supplying a big part of the wealth of FOX.

And Shearer has the GALL to talk politics.

FOX throws cartoons at progressives to mollify them into accepting the rest of FOX's crap. The originators of Fox animated shows think they're socking it to right wingers by putting a few snide remarks about Bush in their shows.

What a joke! That's just a wimp's mollification. Progressive FOX jesters get their jabs in but earn millions for their king.

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The most widely watched Fox News TV programs are dwarfed by the listenership of low-brow, right-wing talk radio by a huge factor. Even if each stupid and evil right-wing show is taken by itself, the numbers are not comparable. But if you add up all the dumb and lying right-wing radio coast to coast, it truly does approach 1000 to 1 in terms of cumulative listening hours compared to viewing hours on Fox !

O'Reilly is the highest rated Fox TV program. O'Reilly get about 1,000,000 viewers a night.

American Idol gets 40,000,000.

Network News gets about 50,000,000 combined on all three networks.

But talk radio gets over 500,000,000 listening hours a day.

Remember, you cannot watch Fox for a 2 hour commute or a 12 hour truck route.

So the real menace to the institutions of democracy is on low-brow, right-wing radio, not Fox TV. In addition, though the standard of ethics and objectivity is low on Fox TV, I can guarantee you that they are utterly NON-EXISTENT on moron level right-wing radio.

The trouble is that very, very, few people of normal or above intelligence listen to the odious drivel, and hence, it exists almost totally under the radar.

If the broad swath of American people had any clue as to noxious lies and ugly smears that these gargoyles use to manipulate the most easily swayed among us, they would concretely express their righteous outrage at the beasts. No radio station wants to be a pariah in the community because advertisers hate it...IF the public makes their disgust and anger very plain to the station and the advertisers.

Trouble is, as I've said, that almost no normal people listen to this stupid and vicious junk.

What needs to happen is a concerted and serious campaign to monitor the big network and smaller local programs and read the crap verbatim into the congressional record.....then the media will be engaged and media reformers will have a potent issue as many millions of Americas will be made aware of a political pestilence of which they have been dangerously unaware.

I am pretty sure that members like Conyers, Kucinich, etc., and Sherrod Brown and Ted Kennedy among others would be glad to read it into the record were this vulgar material provided to them.

Jay Diamond

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This stuff pre-dates Faux. Even if Faux disappeared tomorrow, the dirt would show up elsewhere, like the local news stations.

We love gossip, whether it's true or not. It's supply and demand.

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It used to be that people like the sexually perverted Bill O'
Reilly could invite a liberal guest and then just chew the guest up. It took a long time for Liberals to learn to just ignore the trashmouthing hosts on Fox, but eventually they got it. Now they just use the time to state their message. They also are loosening up and laughing at the ridiculous things the wingnuts preach. Right in their face! The air time is important, so boycotting the shows seems counterproductive. There's nothing more amusing than watching Big Fathead Bill struggle to make his guest squirm as they continue stating their obviously much more rational points.

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Can anyone provide a real to-do-list on how to disrupt or cripple FOX and the FOX news machine?

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... and the ratings for FOX have been halved every year for the last three years. This should be a clue that FOX is truely a propoganda machine as it would have been canceled ages ago. Hell, O'Reilly barely has anyone watching him but for the laughs.

But it didn't work. Not at all. OK, it got Bush elected in 2000. I'll give FOX, and it's Bush related employees, that.

But really, the racism and holy indulgence of the neocon FOX types shouldn't be allowed on TV. The FCC does have rules about smearing, slandering, etc. It's too bad Bush's political officers placed at the FCC (and every other government dept) only go after those horrible, horrible, people who display boobies on TV and say "shit".

Yea, that last bit was sarcasim. ;p

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Fox News has the right to air whatever they want.
That their editorial and more importantly their news editting is skewed to fit the views of a hard right septugenarian Australian multi-billionaire is not illegal or immoral.

That Fox News is the recorder and disseminator of the GOP line on issues is not a problem. There is a long and honored history of advocacy journalism in this country.

The only problem that I see is treating Fox news as an obective, disinterested news network in the mold of the other four networks.

Due to ratings and finances we may see the other networks tilt more toward idealogy as the basis for reporting, but so far this a Fox feature.

Robert Chapman
Lansing, NY

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Do you think you are truly free in America? You are not. You are livvng in a fascist police state. You think you have a choice in selecting a president by voting in the biggest fiasco and scama perpetrated upon a nation of people? Americans are extremely dumb and delusional to believe that voting for one or two people, from more or less the same party, selecetd by elitists, corporations, Fox News and the Israel Lobby, is an excercise in freedom. Let me tell you something, your vote means nothing. You are not free, you can't even hold a spontaneous public rally without being herded into fenced in prison yards called free speech zones - what a fucking joke you all have become - go on with your delusion, enjoy 24 and American Idol.

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...that anyone that watches Fox for anything remotely resembling the truth cannot have very sharp tools in the shed. But any progressive worth his or her salt MUST go on the programs to expose their form of lunacy.

And it is not that hard...truth will out...but you cannot let them turn themselves into martyrs. That is exactly what they would like, just like the religious.

Just look how foolish Colbert made OReilly look.

But to show you how out of touch their viewers are, a conservative friend of mine watched the Colbert-OReilly match and said "Who is this guy (Colbert), I agreed with most of what he said? "

They are not bright enough (or open enough, I cannot figure which) to understand the level of humor and truth that a Colbert brings to the table. I guess it is in their "training," i.e., they are taught from an early age NOT to question anything that comes from their pulpit.

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The key to killing the Fox is to make a short 30 minute documentary that exposes exactly what Fox does, and why they do it. It has to be something any Fox viewer can feel at home watching, especially a senior citizen Fox viewer. It has to be done in the "Fox style".

OutFoxed is NOT a good documentary.

Orwell Rolls in his Grave is 5x better than OutFoxed, but it is too dry. If it were condensed into 30 minutes and if they threw in some flashy red/white/blue graphics, hehe, then they'd be onto something.

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Fox News exists as an enabler for enrichment and will hurt anything and everything that stands in its way. If you want to "disrupt and damage" the "machine" use their very own tactics and weapons against them. The fear they are fighting is the gear to work with.

I don't think we need a step-by-step program to fight Fox News. If a reality is based on a lie and distortion, that reality will become the lie and the distortion. Why get involved in the tailspin?

If you take a lier seriously he (it) becomes a serious lier, and that's where Fox News is at this point in time.

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Most of what they babble about is just gossip. My gripe is the amount of money they get paid to piss people off. Accuracy, sources and fact checking don't apply to them. Since it really isn't 'news' they assume no responsibility for anything. They focus on character assasination which is tough to prove. Highly opinionated loud angry people are seldom well informed. That's why they need so many lawyers. Ignore them, they might go away. Thanks, ANNA

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Filmmaker Greenberg would have Democrats boycott Fox News, but, man, would he scream if Fox urged its viewers to give his documentaries the same treatment.

Rather than shun Fox, all Democrats, including Hillary, Obama and Edwards, should demand airtime on the neocon network. If they can't beat O'Reilly with their brains, then Bill should be running for president, not them.

Hugh E. Scott, creator/editor of www.King-George.biz -- the only website with hardcopy proof of White House corruption.

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It seems that propaganda, to Don Hazen, is limited to conservatives, Fox News and the evil White House.

How about '"Sliming" as the rabid, rapid, media barrage of persistently repeated lies and innuendo mastered by the left-wing media machine - The New York Times, MoveOn.org, and even AlterNet. You can find daily expose's at Media Research and Drudge Report.

Let's try this definition: Propaganda is the reporting of information as true or factual when it is not, and when the reporter (and editor!) knows it is not, or doesn't care enough to determine whether it is true, and still reports it as true in order to further their political, social or ideological agenda or point of view. I think that cuts both ways - through liberal and conservative "media" - and I think both sides should clean up their act. It's simply liberal propaganda to write about this issue as a conservative media problem.

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It seems to me that would destroy Fox News overnight.

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LOL, JUST because one attends and even gets a sheepskin from one of the "prestigeous" Halls of Ivy, uh, our El Presidente has one from Yale, a legacy degree based off of "gentlemen C's" from Yale and another from Harvard--even got early out from his "military duty" to head off for the pickup of Harvard....There are many who parlay family connectons and those not all so connected but fortunate enough to have picked up degree credentials from one of those Ivy's that JUST DUE to those connections/credtials/backgrounds--whether or NOT qualified , get "positions" and accolades heaped at their feet--just the ASSUMED nonsense that somehow allows bestowment of assumptions that ALL of these sorts are somehow "better" or etc, well ridiculously , repulsively too dirguer when if checked out more fully, one finds too many of them LACKING in true ability but masters of chutzpah for sure and an ability to sell others the presumption...Many do attend and many actually do become learned and educated, but there is a segment that do NOT but smart enough to "trade" on the reputation of assumptives , wrong that the sumptive presumptives are in actuality and some do it quite well benefiting their pocketbooks caring little what havoc is wreaked as long as THEY "get" what they presume to assume their just due for being so fortuitiously positioned!

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I can tell by the hysteria I read in this forum that FOX NEWS really bugs the krap out of liberals. For decades we conservatives have had to put up with the left wing bullshit coming out of "news" programs such as the alphabet channels and the the left wing rags like the New Yawk Slimes and the Washington Compost. The reason you liberals get downright silly over the great success of FOX NEWS is that you have no counter to it or the conservative blogosphere. I periodically look to see what kind of effect conservative programing and periodicals have on the old media and the results are remarkable. Left wing shill news sites are losing viewership and the papers like the NYT are losing subscribers to the point where they are now suffering declining advertisement revenue and talking about going belly up. The so called competition to right wing radio "Err Amerika" is presently in process of bankrupcy which is sort of keeping with the ideals of the left wing. All in all things are looking pretty good for conservative media and philosophy. I'm looking forward to the day when I can flip channels to find out that the likes of CNN, PMSNBC, ABC, NBC & CBS only offer test codes and static instead of left wing anti-American bovine fecal effluvia and that papers such as the NYT and the Compost are serving more useful services such as bird cage liners and fish wrap. The thought makes me one really happy troll.

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Liberals dominate the media....this has been announced by Rush Limbaugh. And Thomas Sowell. And Ann Coulter. And Rich Lowry. Bill O'Reilly. And Robert Novak. And George Will.

And John Gibson. And Michelle Malkin. And David Brooks. And Tony Snow. And Tony Blankely. And Fred Barnes. And Britt Hume. And Larry Kudlow. And Sean Hannity. And David Horowitz. And William Kristol. And Hugh Hewitt. And William Buckley.

And Oliver North. And Joe Scarborough. And Pat Buchanan. And John McLaughlin. And Cal Thomas. And Joe Klein. And James Kilpatrick. And Tucker Carlson. And Deroy Murdock. And Michael Savage. And Charles Krauthammer. And Stephen Moore. And Alan Keyes.

And Gary Bauer. And Mort Kondracke. And Andrew Sullivan. And Nicholas von Hoffman. And Neil Cavuto. And Matt Drudge. And Mike Rosen. And Dave Kopel. And John Caldara. And Deborah Howell. And Richard Morin. And John Harris.

The mainstream media in this country are dominated by liberals. Look at how they all gave Bill Clinton a pass on the whole Monica Lewsinsky affair. Remember? It was never in the news. We never heard any of the salacious details.

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LOL, it is more that Libs and others are bugged more by the likes of the HELLISHNESS of Fox presentations..The NONSENSE that THEY are somehow presenting "fair and balanced" perspective defies reality more often than NOT !!! And frankly, Fox is NOT the ONLY outlet as NBC/MCNBC and ABC have been kowed in much as well(NBC, GE parent had much at stake in compliance to shading coverage of ALL things BUSH/right and etc..but will say, since the departure of Jack, not always rigidly adhered to but frankly, does NOT mean they are giving full reporting--they ALL sidestep journalistic responsibilities and cover CRAPPE FLUFF rather than issues that NEED PUBLIC AWARENESS. All are much more just tools used to spread DIS-INFORMATION , to keep much OUT of the public bank of knowledge for fear of the outrage that WOULD ensue if more were more aware of the OFFICIALS perpings and scams and shim-shammery's !!!

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NewsCorp is the HOME of lowbrow, YELLOW 'journalism', which is used to attract an audience for it's heavily slanted, highly fact-selective, truth shading evangelism that masquerades as news. If Faux tells you the sun will be rising tomorrow morning you had better check it with additional sources before swallowing.

NewsCorp is the poster child for all that progressives oppose. From it's elaborate structure designed to avoid taxes, to Murdoch's special treatment in becoming a U.S. citizen, to the omnivore appetite for media concentration, to the use of back-handed compliments & innuendo on air; what is there to trust, support or respect?

The Democrats should freeze out all Faux Newz and NewzCorp publications until they come clean.

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Funny, for a second, seing that headline, I tought AlterNet was referring to themselves. Let's see an article on the federal reserve or 911 truth...AlterNet is fake.

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It remains to be seen if Obama and the other Democratic candidates are truly willing to hold journalists responsible for their actions.

Regarding the issue of a responsible media, shouldn't the following be the issue?

It remains to be seen if journalists are truly willing to hold Obama and the other Democratic candidates responsible for their actions.

I mean, give me a break AlterNet, how about a report card on the new Congress? Not a final grade, but just an interim checkup. Or should we be more concerned about 2008 right now?

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They shoudnt have deleted that part about 'the Australian Mafia' in Outfoxed. While not really true, what is true is that many Australians, having no real sense of 'patriotism' ( a convict past) are too willing to sell themsleves for a beer and being told (drunkenly) 'yuse a really really nice bloke'. I apologize for these fugwits as well as Murdoch.

But let me say, in reply to those who would blame Australia for Murdoch, that we were the victim of a coup in 1975, backed by your CIA. They promoted the Murdoch press, with all it's lies and mudslinging, and even provided forged documents as the 'proof' for the Murdoch press to ensure a government fell. Let's not forget that Britian's MI5 were also involved, but let's note that the gutter style journalism of Rupert the Brave was once restricted to Australia. Thanks to the nutters of right wing mediocrity, and Murdoch's willingness to lick butt, he was unleashed upon the world. Not by Australia - but the CIA and MI5 who ensured his ascendency into the world of propgandist bullshite.

Australia, the land where real democracy and respect for others once worked, has been long hijacked by the right wing lunatic fringe. For example, it's once oh so prestigious 'Lateline' show now interviews has-beens like John Bolton for views on the American (jaysus - didnt the democrats winning both houses tell them something?) views. Commercial stations still use the 'coalition of the willing' phrase which I'm sure Bush would not even dare to use today.

So, here I am in fudgeville, a country that used to be soo advanced in it's news reporting (I mean we knew what was really happening in El Salvador years before Oliver Stone made his movie) but now it is just a joke. Kudos to the CIA and MI5 for removing the investigative journalism in this country and promoting the worst side (and once very very few) of traitorous, blood thirsty, and racist Australians.

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F__K FOX!
Rumple-Pervert
And
The FAUX NEWS WHORES!
He rode in on!
Fascist Pigs!
One and all.

The system is terribly broken!
It has been co-opted by Fascists!
Billionaires are US!
They’re running ruff shod on the American People!
Ruining this Country!
Stealing everything!
Unlimited wealth brings unlimited problems!
For the Citizenry.

First of all,
The Wealth belongs to the Citizens.
That’s everyone!
Technology is a tool,
Used by them, against us,
To rule!
It is released periodically.
Under the control of system handlers.
The trump card (weapons) kept secret,
For an emergency:
Insurrection.

Without followers,
There is no system.
Without workers,
There is no King.
The system has to brought into the future!
With us.
Redefined in modern terms.
Taking into account current technology trends.
And use them for the benefit of all.
Since the beginning of modern history.
War has been a plague on humanity.
What a waste!
End it,
Now!

The foundation
Of a new updated system
Will be built upon:
The bedrock of these positive human ideals:
Truth,
Friendship,
Helpfulness,
Cooperation,
Brotherly Love,
True Compassion
And
Peace!
The New cooperation will be based on this truth.
Functioning for the benefit of all.
We are only doing as good as:
The least amongst us is!
This is our Judge.
A living wage!
Full employment!
Health Care!
A clean environment!
Renewable resources.
End outsourcing!
Eliminate privatization!
Nationalize American energy resources!
This is just a start.
Build on this!
With your own recommendations!

Personal wealth has to be limited for the common good.
Greed is a negative human trait that will be purged from the system,
For the renewal to begin.
We must look at the bigger picture!
Which includes humanity as a whole.
We are all related
We come from a common ancestor.
We all are children of the creator.
Springing forth from universe.
The Mother Earth nourishes us.
Brother and Sisters alike.
Taking no preference!
All treated equally!
This is the pattern.
Let’s use it!
With a common goal!
To live in Peace and Harmony
Working for the betterment of all!
We will share in the fruits of our labor!

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It's Simple!! Money talks. Boycott those companies who advertise on FauxNews.

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FOX News itself is a great contemporary example of the unguarded and infamous statement made by the 19th century 'robber baron' Jay Gould, when he uttered, "I can hire half the working class to kill the other half".

Of course, today the ruling class does not directly hire working class Pinkerton thugs to actually shoot working class strikers.

However, the modern equivalent of Gould's 'solution' is to use half the press to lie about the other half --- which allows the actual killing in the far more important 'oil territories' to proceed smoothly, And the real benefit is that the ruling class empire doesn't actually need to pay to 'hire' thugs, since they actually make profits from both sides of the corporate controlled MSM ---- since both FOX as well as NBC, CBS etc. make a profit on this contrived 'news' war.

Get serious. No media provides truth to the working class. Both of what are termed here the 'sides' of the media are just sides of the ruling class coin ---- one favorable to the Republican 'paid help' and one favorable to the Democrat 'paid help'. Neither side of this corporate controlled media provide any truth to the vast unwashed working class.

W(ho)TF cares if FOX or ABC or CBS covers the Democrat side of this ruling class scam about non-existant democracy in the global corporate elite EMPIRE that used to be called the US? Media 'coverage' of the Dems and the Repubs is as meaningless as which side of the media covers WWF and NASCAR.

Hey guys, get real. Arguing about whether FOX or MSNBC, CNN or NBC gets to spin the Repub vs.Dem phony fight is senseless, except that it helps the ruling class Empire continue to disguise its guileful global corporate Empire as if you were still living in a 'country' rather than the Empire you are actually living in.

Get used to it. You are living in "Vichy America" and ALL the media is blowing smoke up your arses by carrying on 'serious discussion' as if you still lived in a country, instead of the truth that you are uninformed residents of an EMPIRE --- that should be bluntly called "Vichy America".

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That's what the robber barons like in their stooges like Arnold. Personally, I prefer weak and wise. So I've been boycotting the propaganda box for decades now (with occasional exceptions for a movie or sporting event). When a friend or relative asks about how I liked some show, I can listen to them without being hung up on the details, since I don't know them. When they talk about the news, I'll reference Juan Cole or other honest people rather then the talking head stooges.

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Why does the corporate establishment smear liberals and liberal candidates? Simply because they can't argue against their issues.

The way to stop attacks on candidates is to put the candidates into proper perspective. Which is more important the candidate or the platform? If the Democratic Party would come out with a strong platform of issues important to the people, then the party and the platform would be paramount. The debates among candidates would then be about who has the best plans to carry out the party platform.

For example, the Democratic platform pushes these planks:
Campaign finance reform.
Universal Single Payer Health Care.
Honest elections.
If there are five candidates in the primaries, talking about their plans for these issues, the opposition will be forced to fight the issues., not the candidates.
Bob Reichenbach,
Director, The Lincoln Initiative.

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If you haven't seen Network, you need to.

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1) Don't watch.

2) Don't buy products that heavily advertise in venues you find unscrupulous. Write these companies and let them know.

3) Cut off the umbilicus...err, cable...and write a letter to your franchise head, regional head, and corporate office explaining why.

I don't have piles of free money to spend on cable (would rather pay for healthcare rather than depend on gubbamint, save for retirement for the day that gubbamint reneges on Social Security/Poverty Insurance, or just take my wife out to a nice dinner with that money) so I admittedly don't quite get what all the fuss is about.

If I see something I find disgusting on the shelf, I just leave it there, rather than ruminate on the evils and injustice in the world should someone else come along and find it palatable to them. What is interesting to me, however, is that this same topic was played out after "Rathergate" with regard to SheeBeeYess Noose. The sentiments among the torch-wielding masses calling for Rather's head were mirror images of the sentiments in this article. The lexicon and "codewords" were the only difference--"Swiftboaters" v. "Memogate", yada, yada, yada.

Even though I don't watch Fox, my understanding from reading the article and listening to folks is that they smear people whom democrats favor, both for fun and for profit. Now, as we've covered, I might find that fairly disgusting, but my solution is to use the same power that we all have to not partake.

Just say no? The reason it is ill-advised to engage in complex schemes to sabotage Fox News is easy:

1) any publicity is good publicity

2) it will be rightly construed as an attempt by one group to limit the dissemination of information by another on the basis of disagreement

3) people who lack an understanding of "censorship" (see the very first post under this article if you think republicans are the only folks who lack basic understanding of this concept) will cry about it loudly...which will lead to publicity...which will be rightly construed as an attempt to limit the peoples' access to information.

Be pro-choice with regard to channel selection, be friendly toward your fellows, and be willing to point out the logic bombs when you see them. It really isn't that hard of a solution, and it really works.

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It is really a riot to read this garbage from the Left - I first ran across Fox News about 5 or 6 years ago and thought to myself. "Finally someone is telling it like it is, finally" and I still feel that way. I want to puke when listening to the bias of the BBC, ABC, NBC et al. There has to be an alternative to the lies and obvious bias of these networks and Fox fills the bill very nicely. Its nice to know that millions of people feel the same way. The Left can dish it out but they obviously can't take. They are in Panic Mode!

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a week before Christmas. I was watching Olberman when the screen nova'd. At first I just sat there... and waited. I waited and I waited for that bad feeling that always comes when I lose something valuable. But that feeling never came. Instead I felt relief. So the next day I canceled cable.
I stay informed. Read the NY Times and The NY Daily News and there's the internet. But the constant angry outraged voices are gone now and I do not miss them at all. I'm sleeping much better now as a result. Longer, deeper... I am much much better rested now.
I do not feel like I am missing very much, in fact, quite the opposite; I feel like I'm regaining some sorely needed sanity. All I had to do was to quiet the voices...

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Please give me a break.

You act like this whole practice of "sliming" is so new and novel and began with Fox News and Drudge. I'll acknowledge that Fox News has sometimes let me down, but you know what? This practice is older than prostitution.

You don't think that before the days of talk radio, the Internet and 24/7 cable news the left didn't do this too? You don't mean to insinuate the major broadcast networks or the major newspapers and magazines were pure as could be, do you? That nobody ever cozied up to them and did the "echo chamber" thing to promote liberal or Democratic party talking points at the expense of anyone else?

Smearing, slamming, and misrepresenting the right was a blood sport for decades before Fox News was ever a twinkle in the eye of Roger Ailes. Talk radio, Drudge and Fox News were the predictable and inevitable backlash after the elite media's monopoly and snarky behavior.

There's a lot of bad behavior to be found on both sides of the political spectrum, and in every media outlet. But let's not play the wounded animal bit and pretend like Fox and Drudge are beating the crap out of helpless Democrats. You brought this on yourselves.

Now get a sack, straighten up and fight on the playing field that exists today, and stop your bitching.

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Sad but true, Fox matters in media world because they are among the market masters of TV. This being so, it is only logical to assume other media outlets will pay attention to them and emulate their methods. But it is also true that their methods can be turned against them. Ridicule is a very powerful weapon and should be used across the media spectrum to combat the FOX plague. Just look at the most successful comic TV shows of late, all based on ridiculing people (Stewart, Colbert, Mencia, Chappelle and Maher for starters). Time to amp up the ridicule echo-chamber to deafening levels. With the spread of YouTube and MySpace sites and the fact that home movies and animation shorts are easier to make by the minute, learning and laughing have never been more closely linked. I think laughter and learning are far greater weapons than pseudo-righteousness and false indignation. Besides, this is supposed to be a civil society, no? What better way (besides actually voting) to actively participate in democracy? (You're not lowering yourself just because you have to walk down to the battlefield...)

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before you get all worked up about CNN doing really hard hitting journalism, i'd like to point out that as I am writing this, the number one story on CNN's webpage is "Ex-boyfriend: Pregnant Smith did drugs" and the place reserved for breaking news says "Testimony resumes at the Anna Nicole Smith hearing. Watch live on CNN Pipeline now." a quick check to ABC news, MSNBC, and CBS had no mention of her, and good riddance

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The REAL slogan for the "Fox NOISE Channel" should be "Unfair and Biased: We Distort, You Comply"

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Now it is Iran’s turn as the US propaganda machine starts to crank out it’s false message. The overall pattern at work here is exactly the same one utilized for Iraq: phony diplomacy, then U.N. action which will similarly make compliance by Iran impossible, then a few speeches accusing Iran of defying the will of the "civilized world" and of being too great a threat to be tolerated -- and then the bombing. And almost no one will be heard to say that the "crisis" was created out of thin air, and that in fact no crisis exists at all. And like Iraq all of it will be based on lies from beginning to end.

Let us state the final conclusion boldly and unmistakably, so we may appreciate its full horror: the Bush administration has already decided, and probably decided some time ago, that it will attack Iran. They want a wider war. Everything that is now going on is simply the cover for the moment when the bombing begins, intended to provide what the American public and the world will accept as “justification” for the attack.

The Bush administration is making public statements that the US intelligence agencies regard as an increasing body of evidence pointing to an Iranian link, including information gleaned from Iranians and Iraqis captured in recent American raids on an Iranian diplomatic office in Erbil and another sites in Baghdad. (Confessions no doubt gained by contravening the Geneva Convention against torture. It does not baud well for the rest of the civilized world when we see how far this nation who used to be the Free World’s leading beckon of light for freedom & human decency has under Bush's leadership fallen to the level of a Banana Republic.)

Most intelligent people find it unbelievable that Bush believes the rest of the world is so unknowledgeable about the Middle East and as such can be duped by crude and inaccurate propaganda.

First lets put some facts in context regarding Iraq and Iran:
Iraq is made up of three distinct peoples:
1. Shiite: (Who are the Iraqi majority and who now lead the Iraq government.)

2. Kurds: (Who are a minority in Iraq and the Kurdish people are not popular in Turkey or Iran because of their own local Kurds desire for some sort of local autonomy like they now have in Iraq.)

3. Sunnis: (Who are a minority in Iraq and who had supported Saddam Hussein and his brutal suppression of all Iraqi people.) The now disenfranchised Sunni minority constitutes the main body of the Iraq insurgency.

Iran is mainly made up of Shiites who had traditionally supported the anti Saddam Shiite suppressed majority.

So right away we see a flaw in the US Administrations assertion that Iran is arming and supporting the Iraqi insurgency when it’s Iran’s historic enemy the Sunni’s who are the insurgents. These insurgents want to bring down the Shiite lead government that was created by and is supported by the US.

For all the care taken by the US to bolster its case - the weeks of delay in presenting it, the minute detail, the show of weapons parts - the presentation at the weekend was disturbingly reminiscent of the claims about Iraq's weapons of mass destruction that turned out not to exist.

There was a similar lack of proof that the Iranian authorities were the direct suppliers and a similarly worrying insistence on anonymity for the briefers. If the "evidence" turns out to have been misleading, there will be no one identifiable to blame.

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Air America owns up to being advocacy programming with a progressive bias. Even some of the right wing radio stations are up front about their conservative bias and advocacy. The problem and danger with FNN is that it masquerades as "news" and factual reporting when it is actually right wing Republican propoganda. Their deception needs to be revealed for what it is.

I favor all Democratic politicians, elected officials and progressive celebrities boycotting FNN. I support the effort to continously monitor FNN and expose their lies in blogs, documentaries, books, etc.

However, if progressive political candidates and elected officials can not resist FNN air time, then they should be very focused to get their message across and push back hard when asked leading questions.

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Once again, all talk and no action. The title of this piece is "How to Stop the Fox Propaganda Machine" yet no concrete suggestions are given. Basically, the gist of this article is that some people say you shouldn't have anything to do with Fox and 1 woman says you should. OK. Got it. Aside from that, it repeats all the stuff we already know about the Fox Propaganda Network.

Guy

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I'm thrilled to see some action taken to curb this propaganda that permeates the media these days. Joseph Gerbles would be very proud indeed. The level of lies and deceit are appalling.
The bottom line here is that they are playing us. With Murdock willing to lie to it's audience and NBC's parent company in the military arms business, how much objective reporting do you think your going to get. And with the anti trust rules relaxed ( thank you Mr. Regan ), and these mega corporations spreading their influence all over the media landscape, how much opposition reporting do you think is out there? Regan also axed the fairness docrtine witch required that the media give equal time to opposing viewpoints. In my opinion, thom Hartman is one of the few who presents both sides of the issues, as if there was still a fairness doctrine in place. Almost as an example of what the media could be if it wasn't so slanted to the right wing mentality.
I drew a cartoon to reflect this. it's at my website.
http:/www.whatnowtoons.com/#081
We still need to free our media.

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Hitler and his Fascist regime had its brainwashing machine, and Bush and his Neo-Theo-Fascist regime has its brainwashing machine.

In its time the German people failed to see was was developing, and now it is the time to learn if the American people are wise enough to see what is the Bush junta's agenda.

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Liberals tend to be "chickens" who get eaten.

DON'T LET IT HAPPEN!

Make them "the FOX at the end of the hunt!"

Dr. Rick Lippin
Southampton, Pa

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The truth is if the other networks were more on point the obvious bias of Fox would be blinding. The real problem is ALL the networks are creampuffs under coporate control.

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MSM ,with some notable exceptions, has morphed from once being a profession to being a business. (The same thing has happed in Law and Medicine)

But this model is imploding for many reasons.

The Blogosphere leaders will be MSM within 5 years.

It remains to be seen if they are seduced by the need to become unnecessarily wealthy as the orthodontia bills and private school and college tution bills come due. Fine wine, great restaurants, great art and good travel ain't exactly cheap either?

I am confident that they are less greedy than most. The leaders of the Blogosphere are my hope for the future.

GO ALTERNET!

Dr. Rick Lippin
Southampton. Pa

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The Obama bashing began a few weeks before the madrassa smear when the folks at Fox Noise began emphasizing his middle name "Hussein" every chance they could. They need to inject some truth into their smears in order to give them some traction.

The next thing to watch for will be smears originating in their new "satire" show (half hour news hour) jumping into the discourse of the rest of their "comedy" shows.

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“It remains to be seen if Obama and the other Democratic candidates are truly willing to hold journalists responsible…”

Don Hazan’s (exec director Alternet) diatribe is rank limited hangout that paints fairly challenged faux Fox “news” as virtually the only offender at a 4th estate well-cooked before Operation Mockingbird.

In sum, this story is laughable. It paints a buffoon FOX org that poses at being the worst at a drunken media party where Big MSM players are all toy clowns for the oligarch plutocracy they serve.

Bottom line assumptions and lessons drawn by this story are nonsense.

Obama running as an “outsider” among candidates running as “progressives” is as a twisted a gag as McCain or Rudy “911” Guliani running as “conservative”.

To “hold journalists responsible for their actions” snake oil politicians would have to be responsible to the people. But they are merely fronts for a de facto fascist cartel state.

The entire debate is phony as unconstitutional “Federal Reserve” Notes (private funny money not federal and backed by less than no reserves) used for sham 911 cover-up and “war on terror”.

Talk about wag the dog…



"In March, 1915, the J.P. Morgan interests [agents for Rockefeller-Rothschild bloc] the steel, shipbuilding, and powder interest, and their subsidiary organizations, got together… They found it was only necessary to purchase the control of 25 of the greatest papers. An agreement was reached; the policy of the papers was bought..."
U.S. CONGRESSMAN OSCAR CALLAWAY (Quote 1917)

“These international and Rockefeller-Standard Oil interests control the majority of newspapers and the columns of these papers to club into submission or drive out of public office officials who refuse to do the bidding of the powerful corrupt cliques which compose the Invisible Government.”
PRESIDENT THEODORE ROOSEVELT (denouncing global cartel power, President from 1901-1909)

“Our job is to give people not what they want, but what we decide they ought to have.”
RICHARD SALENT (former President CBS “news”)

"News is what someone wants to suppress. Everything else is advertising".
RUBIN FRANK (former NBC “news” President)

“The business of the journalist is to destroy the truth; to lie outright; to pervert; to vilify; to fawn at the feet of Mammon, and to sell the country for his daily bread. You know it and I know it and what folly is this toasting an independent press. We are the tools and vassals of the rich men behind the scenes. We are the jumping jacks, they pull the strings and we dance... We are intellectual prostitutes. "
JOHN SWINTON (former Chief of Staff New York Times. Quote1880)

“It is possible to fool all of the people all the time; when government and press cooperate.”
GEORGE SELDES (legendary investigative reporter, 1938)

“Those who manipulate the unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. We are governed, our minds molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested by men we have never heard of.”
EDWARD L. BERNAYS (Sigmund Freud’s nephew and the father of psy-ops, mass spin control and modern propaganda. Bernay’s techniques were used to sell WWI to Americans thru the “Committee on Public Information” and employed by Josef Goebbels in the 3rd Reich. Bernays partnered with William Paley to run CBS as his work founded CIA mass media manipulation via “Operation Mockingbird”. Quote: Bernay’s book “Propaganda” published 1928)

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Often, but not always, the center and especially the Left tend to not win verbally when it comes to Fox and its lies. But, consider this, the make-up of many on the Left in terms of values and personality tends to be vastly different than those on the Right. Look at the "shout downs" on Fox, the need to always "get the last word in," from those on the Right. Look at the "loud-mouths," the O'Reilly's and the outright lies spewed out. And, don't doubt this, Fox was a major reason for America's current debacle in Iraq. It spread non-stop the WMD lies and the fake Al-Queda connections. Historically, we can look at a parallel in terms of the German Weimar Republic, before the rise of the Third Reich. The intellectuals, the liberals were all on the "left." Today, the left is still the intellectuals and liberals, but no longer includes the Jews as in Germany (except for a few social liberals) as Israel is part of the American Right-Wing (philosophically and practically)._ But, today's Left includes many of those who are Muslims, the poor, the recent immigrants, and "the people of Color." And the intellectuals especially see the fallacy of the Right in terms of shouting back words of hate and anger, they would much prefer reconciliation and for America to go forward. But, the Right is to busy complaining about the Left, all those "homos" in the schools, that "tree hugger" Al Gore and that Hanoi Jane who again is "disgracing America." But, the Right and Fox is convinced this same "left" is the enemy. Now friends, don't however doubt it for a minute, between an O'Reilly, a Rush Limbaugh and a Hitler, a Stalin a Pol-Pot is very little indeed. Only just the space of years. Should the Left then take on the illogical ways of the Right, all the arguments and the hate so as to "verbally win." I don't think so. Unless it comes down to what many on the Right ultimately want, the extermination of the Left, terminating "the homos," and the "Coloreds." Then, we have to step up to defend ourselves, before we are "terminated" by not just Right wing ranting like Fox, but Right wing actions of hate as well.

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Keep on blithering, slithering-
Keep on whining, pining-

Splash

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It's stupid. O'Rielly used to be on Hard Copy and he was a raging conservative that wanted a fight. Know he is a Cultural Whorer that wants to take it easy and ask questions about how we need a controlled conservative country.

There is another lady there. Some asian that just pushes the envelope to conservatism. Her background? She worked at LA Daily News and then moved to Seattle or something and covered some corrupt politics.

Then they have Hannity and Colmes. A great show if you think a former construction worker knows more about politics than a college graduate. This show is so good because you know the guest is going to be pummeled with senseless questions.

Finally you has Sustern von something with her prosecutor prowess. Doesn't get better than that when she can get Anna Nicole Smith to admit she is a gold digger.

Oh, there are others like Geraldo and North who has no business on television. They sure do show their asses on que.

I am sure the prettiest people will migrate to Fox news and show us their expertise. A lovely work in progress for dumbing down the rest of us.

Good show.

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There seems to be a prevailing myth that the mainstream media, excluding Fox, has a liberal bias. This belief is based mainly on the evidence of the MSM being more critical of republicans and less critical of democrats. The problem in this is it assumes that our two-party system represents two equally opposed sides and that these sides reflect the full extent of opinions among the American people. In actuality, all corporate owned media outlets, along with both major political parties, are beholden to corporate masters and don't represent the will of the people. The media is supposed to serve as the public's watchdog, investigating and reporting on the actions of government for the good of the people. They should always be skeptical of our elected officials, regardless of party afilliation. Yes, Faux News is by far the most odious offender in failing to fulfill its service to the American people. However, the rest of the media establishment has fallen far short as well.

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Faux Noise is so disgusting. I would give anything or make 1000 phone calls to get corporations to stop advertising on this despicable channel. More despicable are the Dems who would legitimize it by showing up. Let's work together to stamp out the Noise. These Faux dogs are "beyond reason" as suggested in the article. Let's do something about it.

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Every time I read a left wing blog, what do I see? A bunch of whining, sniveling, complainy, spoiled brats, who have never contributed anything to our country. My advice - get off your university indoctrinated asses, join the military, fight for freedom, and then come back and talk to me.

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There's plenty of blame to go around when explaining Fox News Channel. First, it wasn't "called out" initially by legitimate journalists. Sure, Cronkite and others have publically stated that FNC is not a genuine news organization, but most journalists treated it with kid gloves initally which emboldened a network that was tentative about how their right-wing bias would fly in the marketplace.

Secondly, the '96 Telecommunications Act rewrote the rules on corporate ownership of media- radio in particular. As a result, radio consolidation allowed the "legitimizing" of racist bigots such as Limbaugh. After all, goes the theory, if the local, upstanding station that I've been listening to for years runs ads for local businesses I like, participates in local "fun runs" for charities and gives me a dollop of local news and traffic now & then, then everything they run must be legit. This philosophy garnered ratings which translated into ad dollars and that is, after all, what media is all about. The conservative cash cows are simply too valuable to local outlets to get rid of.

The icons that speak to "traditional values" while trashing your local union, that blame liberals for every evil known to man, even though your local Minister, teacher or firefighter who may be quite progressive, works because we don't see the insidious nature of what this constant, non-stop indoctrination does to the poor fella next door and his family. There has to be a disconnect, a them-against us mentality and a constant, continual enemy. Mantras like "free market" must be constantly drilled into the head of the people for whom the free market has hurt the most. By allowing this kind of thing on the radio dial without raising any red flags, we gave the green light to have it translated into visual images and propaganda on the television screen, hence FNC was born.

Finally, does it scare anyone that we now have, in the United States, a "free market" political indoctrination system that is there, unseen in broad daylight? Much like the continious droan from Cambodian loudspeakers at re education camps, we now have the same never ending spiel from the right wing. It's on your radio, 24 hours a day. Just try to escape from it on an all-night drive when you have the time to listen- really listen- to what those voices are saying. It's on television 24-7 in the guise of "news" on Fox News Channel. One cannot escape from it in sports either... just listen to fellows like "J.T. the Brick" on Fox Sports radio as he tosses in jabs at liberals, teachers unions and anyone who might express a progressive point of view. Ditto the mass market booksellers where Coulter and Hannity dominate shelf space.

Does it frighten you that they all speak from the same playbook? That what they have to say isn't just the same in tone and content, but often times, word-for-word? Even the internet isn't immune as "Net Neutrality" rules threaten the last free bastion of communication.

We're awash in political brainwashing at every turn and it has to be because we are being sold something that would not fly ANY OTHER WAY. Want proof? Every right wing concept below is for your own GOOD...

Unionism's bad. Health care must be kept in the private sector. Progressive thought is perverted. Liberals hate America. If you're poor you are not working hard enough. You must work harder and struggle more to put your children through college. If your health is bad it's your fault. Your rights to sue should be highly curtailed. Voting is not a right, but a privilige: your leaders will be appointed for you. Continue working and do not blow the whistle or you will be blackballed. Save more, while earning less. Go to church and be pious in public. Education should be a for-profit enterprise and exists to instill patriotism.

Scary.

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There is NO value for any Democrat going on Fox News. Fox News is run by Roger Ailes who takes his talking points from the RNC where he is still a member in good standing. Who was the first News Channel to decribe Ambassador Wilson's trip to Niger as a "junket", the very word used by Cheney in his scribblings on the NYT OpEd piece. A "junket" is a golf trip to St Andrews on a private jet. Anyone who has been to Niger will know that is not easily describe d as a luxury destination.
Fox designs the discussion in the the form of "when did you stop beating your wife" style questioning. The sputtering occurs when the the interviewee cannot believe the skewed bullshit coming out of the mouth of the interviewer. The audience they are addressing is never going to support the Dems and going on there in the spirit of bipartisanship to address the "other side" is ridiculous. It is a right wing shooting gallery and will not bring any benefit to the Democrats EVER.!
Barack Hussein Obama (THIS IS HUUUUGE to quote Steve Doocy) is smart to boycott the channel and all other Dems should follow suit. It would interesting to see how Fox fills the empty chair. Maybe ask Howard K Stern what he thinks of the Dems, or a post mortem interview with Anna Nicole showing she supported Bush.
Stay away Dems. Any effective spokes can do a greater service by going places where the message can be heard.

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Save your whining and get a pair. If FOX's message is so wrong, why are they constantly doubling up on the competiton? Now is when you trot out the "everyone's a idiot but me" argument.

And if your message is so right, how come you are too stupid to present it in a fashion that others will agree with.

Get real and adjust your medication.

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Interesting that this article makes it sound like some progress is being made by the blogosphere to make journalists think and check before they write or speak ... but concurrently the right wing media camp have concocted some delusion about Nancy Pelosi demanding a 747 to transport her "and her cronies" between D.C. and San Francisco. I believe this was well-reported before someone pointed out it was BS. Then, AFTER is was exposed as lies, the Republicans had the temerity to call it the first "break" they'd received from that evil left-wing media since the mid-terms.

Ah well, I guess the fear of being unmasked by the blogosphere hasn't really afflicted quite a few in the media just yet.

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The New York Times and CNN and most other what you call "main stream media" are all left wing propaganda.

Are they considered legit because their propaganda leans left?

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I agree totally with Mr. Greenwald. No Dem should ever go on Fox, under any circumstances because it adds an air of legitimacy to Fox, which is totally illegitmate. Fox and Rupert Murdoch are the very worst in our society. Fox, with it's catholics is nothing more than a shill for the pope, the catholic church, the rethugs and the SBC, all agents of destruction and war and PRO-DEATH. O'Reilly(catholic) Hannity(catholic) et.al. And they work for Murdoch the biggest telecarrier of porn in the USA. It is difficult to comprehend that the pope and the catholic church and catholic voters would endorse the Murdoch porn empire whether it is a carrier of porn or a pornographer of news/smearing of others. But thats where catholicism has gone since the days of Nixon, Pope John Paul and the current pope. WOW, who could ever have imagined. Somehow I don't think God will accept, on judgement day, the defense that "the pope made me do it".

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to the status quo (and this also means you, Hill!); including even some African-American rights bureaucrats. ("Can he be a true African-American, as he's NOT descended from slaves?" I think their real problem with him is that he doesn't campaign from a pulpit, and endlessly summon the wrath and protection of their "God".)

As an obscure freshman Senator, he wasn't very dangerous. But as president, his voice of reason and accoutability makes power brokers of every type look as bad as they really are.

Though the very early numbers show him lagging well behind Hillary, early numbers often prove completely without merit in a year's time. The fact that these established powers are slinging so much slime his way clearly demonstrates his potencial, and their justified fear of it.

Steven Wanzell
wanzellarts.com.ar

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That's what it will take to knock down this Goliath. It seems shocking to most of us here that Fox News is considered by most (naive!) Americans to be legitimate, but it's a fact.

I'm undecided as to whether progressives should appear there, because the content can usually be edited so that the "guest" is discredited, or their statements taken out of context.

Steven Wanzell
wanzellarts.com.ar

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This past weekend, I got into a politicial discussion with a friend of mine. We've only known each other for one year, and share a passion for music which is often the topic of conversation. He's a former Marine and he has mentioned in passing that he's a conservative, but we never really got into it. On this night, he made a statement about liberals that could only be considered prejudiced. I said to him, "Well, I'm a liberal." He was a bit dismayed to hear this, but then we got into a discussion.

We covered all kinds of topics over the next hour. It is clear that he was 100% certain of all his information and opinions. Instead of throwing all the facts that I have at him and being confrontational, I listened a lot and gave reasonable responses where appropraite. This is a man who has been to Afganistan and Iraq with the Marines, so his frame of reference is one few of us can share.

At one point, he mentioned that he thought the New York Times and CNN and TV News is all skewed liberal and he doesn't believe any of it. I said, "Well what about Fox News?" He felt that it was all accurate and fully reporting the news. I want to reiterate that this is a very intelligent and reasonable person. But he has been brainwashed. I implored him to "take it with a grain of salt" if he's watching that channel. He disagreed, but I mentioned how they claimed Mark Foley was a Democrat for several hours when his scandal first broke. That actually got some traction.

While I felt I was stifling myself a bit throughout the conversation, it was an interesting discussion, and I felt like the fact that I stayed calm and let him ramble at times was the right way to go. I decided pretty early on that my goal should not be to convince my friend that I'm right and he needs to change his mind. It was to convince him that there are liberals who are reasonable people willing to have an open discussion about the most important of issues. I don't think he'd every had an experince like that before. I feel that is the biggest way we can undermine Fox News' impact. They are slandering us constantly. They claim we are irrational liars who just want to let people subsist off the taxpayers' money. The number one thing we can do is engage in discussions with conservatives, keeping calm and rational, and letting them know that it doesn't have to be "Hannity and Combs". I did come away feeling like I wasn't able to make all the points I wanted. But I felt great about having the discussion in the first place. Had I gotten excited, ranting as I often do with my progressive buddies, there would have been no discussion, and my friend would have written me (and the rest of us) off as lunatics.

This isn't a "can't we all just get along" kind of comment. I feel the only way to exact some change amongst people is to start by letting them see that we're not what Fox makes us out to be.

Fight the Youth

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Also, blame the Democrats for their own stupidity.

Even after all of the true facts about Gore’s actual billing situation were available to Democrats ("Countdown") who'd appeared on talk shows to "defend" against these attacks --- none of them used these facts to refute Hannity's and others accusations.

And why didn't they also point out that Laura Bush also smokes cigarettes when bashing Barack’s indulgence,

Face it, and to our great regret, Democrats are one step behind and two steps to the side of competence.

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I find this site rather amusing. It's fortunate that it represents only a lunatic fringe of our society. If you think Fox is spreading propaganda, then propaganda must be a code word for "closer to the truth than ABC, NBC, CBS and CNN". The 'mainline' TV and print media presents news with so much spin and slant that they are beginning to give public radio and TV a run for their liberal/socialist money. Even Fox has a way to go before they could be considered a respected and objective presenter of the news. At least they're generally more accurate than the 'mainline media'.

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