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Leaving Iraq: Apocalypse Not

By Robert Dreyfuss, Washington Monthly. Posted February 19, 2007.


Much of Washington assumes that withdrawing from Iraq will lead to a bigger bloodbath. We need to question that assumption.

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The Bush administration famously based its argument for invading Iraq on best-case assumptions: that we would be greeted as liberators; that a capable democratic government would quickly emerge; that our military presence would be modest and temporary; and that Iraqi oil revenues would pay for everything. All these assumptions, of course, turned out to be wrong.

Now, many of the same people who pushed for the invasion are arguing for escalating our military involvement based on a worst-case assumption: that if America leaves quickly, the Apocalypse will follow. "How would [advocates of withdrawal] respond to the eruption of full-blown civil war in Iraq and the massive ethnic cleansing it would produce?" write Robert Kagan and William Kristol in the Weekly Standard. "How would they respond to the intervention of Iraq's neighbors, including Iran, Syria, and Turkey? And most important, what would they propose to do if, as a result of our withdrawal and the collapse of Iraq, al Qaeda and other terrorist groups managed to establish a safe haven from which to launch attacks against the United States and its allies?"

Similar rhetoric has been a staple of President Bush's recent speeches. If the United States "fails" in Iraq -- his euphemism for withdrawal -- the president said in January, "[r]adical Islamic extremists would grow in strength and gain new recruits. They would be in a better position to topple moderate governments, create chaos in the region, and use oil revenues to fund their ambitions ... Our enemies would have a safe haven from which to plan and launch attacks on the American people."

This kind of thinking is also accepted by a wide range of liberal hawks and conservative realists who, whether or not they originally supported the invasion, now argue that the United States must stay. It was evident in the Iraq Study Group, led by James Baker and Lee Hamilton, which, participants say, was alarmed by expert advice that withdrawal would produce potentially catastrophic consequences. Even many antiwar liberals believe that a quick pullout would cause a bloodbath. Some favor withdrawal anyway, to cut our own losses. Others demur out of geostrategic concerns, a feeling of moral obligation to the Iraqis, or the simple fear that Democrats will be blamed for the ensuing chaos.

But if it was foolish to accept the best-case assumptions that led us to invade Iraq, it's also foolish not to question the worst-case assumptions that undergird arguments for staying. Is it possible that a quick withdrawal of U.S. forces will lead to a dramatic worsening of the situation? Of course it is, just as it's possible that maintaining or escalating troops there could fuel the unrest. But it's also worth considering the possibility that the worst may not happen: What if the doomsayers are wrong?

The al-Qaeda myth

To understand why it's a mistake to assume the worst, let's begin with the most persistent, Bush-fostered fear about post-occupation Iraq: that al-Qaeda or other Islamic extremists will seize control once America departs; or that al-Qaeda will establish a safe haven in a rump, lawless Sunnistan and use that territory as a base, much as it used Taliban-controlled Afghanistan.

The idea that al-Qaeda might take over Iraq is nonsensical. Numerous estimates show that the group called Al Qaeda in Iraq (AQI) and its foreign fighters comprise only 5 to 10 percent of the Sunni insurgents' forces. Most Sunni insurgents are simply what Wayne White -- who led the State Department's intelligence effort on Iraq until 2005 -- calls POIs, or "pissed-off Iraqis," who are fighting because "they don't like the occupation." But the foreign terrorist threat is frequently advanced by the Bush administration, often with an even more alarming variant -- that al-Qaeda will use Iraq as a headquarters for the establishment of a global caliphate. In December 2005, Rear Admiral William D. Sullivan, vice director for strategic plans and policy within the Joint Chiefs of Staff, delivered a briefing in which he warned that al-Qaeda hoped to "revive the caliphate," with its capital in Baghdad. President Bush himself has warned darkly that after controlling Iraq, Islamic militants will "establish a radical Islamic empire that spans from Spain to Indonesia."

The reality is far different. Even if AQI came to dominate the Sunni resistance, it would be utterly incapable of seizing Baghdad against the combined muscle of the Kurds and the Shiites, who make up four fifths of the country. (The Shiites, in particular, would see the battle against the Sunni extremist AQI -- which regards the Shiites as a heretical, non-Muslim sect -- as a life-or-death struggle.)


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Robert Dreyfuss is an independent journalist in Alexandria, Virginia, and the author of "Devil's Game: How the United States Helped Unleash Fundamentalist Islam" (Henry Holt/Metropolitan Books).

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No Bloodbath
Posted by: Captainmagic on Feb 19, 2007 1:08 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How do I know......because Iraqi's are not F@#King idiots....They know that when the yanks leave (and they will) then after their collective sigh of relief they will go to the big tent and after they have agreed to dismiss the circus that passes as their embeded government they will discuss (as they have done in the past) before yank style democracy stuck it's ugly hand in the pie, just how they are going to have to live together with THIER oil.

The biggest stumbling block (pun intended) is the presence of those who know whats best for IRAQI"S......... "raised eyebrows"...(don't you worry about that) Bu$hCo and any other F#$King idiot who THINKS the USA should be there.

The Kurds will just have to pull their head in and ask Turkey for protection from "Sunni, Shiite, Yank" under the guarantee that the Kurds will not push for anything other than a place at the table and a vote.

BLOODBATH......what!! in your gods name would you call Iraq NOW. I suggest a short walk to the top of the hill in the afternoon. Gaze out at the dwindling sun setting over the valley.... suck in a deep breath of the cool evening breeze...and then look inwardly.....and if your american say quietly............ "WHAT THE F@#K HAVE WE DONE" !!!!!

congratulations...."JUST LEAVE YOU WILL BE ASTONISHED"

Regards Captain.

P.S. and it won't take four years.
P.P.S To the U.S. general in charge of the Iraq war....Sir as you wash over them they will bend.... and as you retreat to your green zone so will they "the mujahadeen" stand up. (Rolled GOLD guarantee) EOS.

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» RE: No Bloodbath Posted by: Dboy
» RE: No Bloodbath Posted by: vangogh69
» RE: No Bloodbath...Dboy Posted by: Captainmagic
What's with this withdrawl talk?
Posted by: Dboy on Feb 19, 2007 2:20 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Pulling out of Iraq is absolutely NOT the plan. Have you guys seen pictures of these permanent bases? They have Burger King's in those things. We're building (from what I've read) a massive foreign embassy in the green zone. And the oil.. of course. If the US pulls out, Iraqi's will create a real non-puppet government (theocratic), start trading oil in Euros, make really sweet oil deals with Beijing and Moscow, and the US would be out of the game. US won't be leaving until the oil is gone. American media is obviously controlled by the corporate government now, so you can count on American KIA's not being reported, removing any pressure that the American public might otherwise exert. And we obviously don't care about killing brown people (christian values no doubt).

Bush/Cheney,etc are acting the way they are because we have reached peak oil production. That's what the secret Cheney/oil goon meeting was about shortly after they took office. Bush's ranch in Texas is set up with solar power, ground-source heating, water well, etc. for complete independence from the power grid. That should tell you something.

Politics has converged with energy policy in Iraq, and pulling out means losing ALOT. We'd have recession (or worse), no way to pay off the current war debt, rising energy prices, loss of world dominance, and oil vulnerability. It's not just civilians that need oil, the US terrorist war machine also runs on oil. No oil, no tanks. This government LIKES their tanks and their other toys. For *us* the PEOPLE (the ones our government doesnt give a crap about) would be alot better off getting beyond oil. Solar,wind,hydro, ethanol, whatever. This are all good things, but you can't run tanks, aircraft carriers, or submarines on solar power. Aircraft carriers and submarines run on either diesel or nuke power. Armies need oil or they'll have to go back to horseback. US expansion means US military rolling over countries in tanks. Therefore no oil = no expansion. Dead. So this Project For A New American Century (PNAC) is dependent on oil in order to get the expansion they desire. The democrats seem weak to us, even after the recent election, because they want this expansion just as much as the republican do. This fake-fighting, non-binding resolution crap is just entertainment for the masses, more bread and circuses to keep us amused while the Empire goes on doing what empires do.

Dboy

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» RE: What's with this withdrawl talk? Posted by: oregoncharles
» Actually... Posted by: vangogh69
» the Vietnam comparison Posted by: Dboy
An Iraqi Sunni-Shi'a said
Posted by: wawa on Feb 19, 2007 5:17 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
On Jan. 27, 2007

500,000 patriotic Americans surrounded the Capitol to demand an END to WAR and Occupation

One of the speakers was,
Raed Jarrar, Iraq Project Director of Global Exchange and he informed the engaged crowd,

“The only hope to end the Iraqi violence is to end the occupation! I am one half Sunni and one half Shi'a and I am telling you that both secular and religious Iraqis agree that we want our county back! We want the occupation to end, NOW! Sunni’s and Shia’s have lived together for a thousand years and all Bush accomplished was to build a new dictatorship!”

Arab American, Nicholas Mouracade who flew from Florida informed this reporter:

“I love America and I served in the Air Force during Vietnam. And now my nephew is in the 82nd Airborne Division and all he and his unit do is guard the oil fields. I’d like to know whose making the money on the 2.5 million barrels of oil being produced every day in Iraq.”


“Who lies? Who dies? Who pays? Who profits?”-emmasrevolution.com

John Dowell, USMC Retired Captain and Tiger Shark UAV Pilot informed me, “In the last few months I have made more money than I ever have in my entire life. I had been a civilian contractor flying UAV’s for a private company and the money is humongous. But. It is your money for every person born today begins life with a $30,000 debt because of this war. We got here because we the people have not been paying attention. But, it's not too late, we can do something! It’s time for a revolution!”

excerpted 1/28/07 WAWA BLOG
http://www.wearewideawake.org/

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Forget withdrawal. We can still win in the Middle East
Posted by: DougScott on Feb 19, 2007 7:45 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We can win by fighting smart.

That means staying out of Baghdad, eliminating Al Qaeda in Anbar province, patrolling the Iranian border with Marine combat units, establishing permanent U.S. bases in Kudistan (Northern Iraq), beefing up a fast-reaction force in Kuwait, and sending Shrub's 21,500-troop surge to Afghanistan.

Sort of like containing a forest fire (sectarian violence) while it burns itself out. Applying the analogy to Bush, he wants to parachute smoke jumpers into the blaze.

Hugh E. Scott, Vietnam veteran, ex-USAF pilot, author of "George Dub-ya Bush, THE PHONY FIGHTER PILOT" and creator/editor of www.King-George.biz -- the only website with hardcopy proof of White House corruption.

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Iraq War provides much needed cover for Bush/Cheney
Posted by: Leadbyexample on Feb 19, 2007 10:09 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The only hope Bush/Cheney has to avoid impeachment is to keep on fighting the phony war. What would happen if the U.S. pulled out of Iraq, peace and love followed, where could the administration hide?

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no one's talking about the iraqis...
Posted by: mindcryme on Feb 19, 2007 11:05 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...who worked with the american and british forces. that includes everyone from the prime minister down to the police recruit to the translaters and suppliers.

they currently enjoy american protection but what will happen to them when the americans leave?

they'll be dealt with, won't they, by the anti-american tide.

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What would happen if we left?
Posted by: Doubtom on Feb 19, 2007 11:32 AM   
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No one knows for sure what would happen if we left Iraq, but if it turned out to be a bloodbath, isn't that exactly what we deserve for this illegal and immoral war? Or do we just believe in punishment for others?
Maybe if we suffered just half as much as the Iraquis have we'd think twice before sitting back and letting our government be taken over by a bunch of scum and cowards who like to attack inferior nations.
We need to pay a dear price for our crimes and not every crime can be expunged with dollars. Time to pay up America! Round up some more cannon fodder.

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Some very good points
Posted by: alibaba on Feb 19, 2007 12:29 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Thank you for writing the article and making these points. The point about the Iraqis eliminating the 'other' foreigners (Al Quiada) had occured to me a long time ago and actually seems like the only 'certain' outcome to a US withdrawal. But if it didn't happen, if in fact the Iraqis were to give them bases for example this would still be a good outcome for the US from a strictly military standpoint (we can't seem to find them now). This assumes that we're interested in fighting them to begin with. The problem with leaving Iraq is that there is no real discussion in the media or congress about why we went there to begin with. Unfortunately, it seems that 30% of americans still believe it has something to do with terrorism and democracy.

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Nitpicker
Posted by: Barbarossa on Feb 19, 2007 1:18 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"If the United States 'fails' in Iraq -- his euphemism for withdrawal -- the president said in January, ..."

A "euphemism" is a milder word used in place of a harsh word. This is not a euphemism; it is a "dysphemism" -- a harsh word used in place of a milder word for the propagandistic purpose of imbuing the idea with a more negative quality.

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» RE: Nitpicker Posted by: mindcryme
WHO CARES?
Posted by: albrechtkrausse on Feb 19, 2007 2:06 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why is it our business if folks wish to kill each other in some backwards part of the world? Why is it America's responsibility to "bring democracy" to totalitarian states, tribal areas, or areas with no government whatsoever. "White Man's Burden" is over and was a racist concept. Let those parts of the world in Middle East, Africa, and Asia sort out their own issues and conflicts. Do we really want/need to pick sides in religious sectarianism, blood fueds, and criminal gangfights that we don't understand and that are older than the USA in many cases? Just leave. And blockade their ports and refuse all emigration to Europe or the USA from those backward parts of the world. Also no US AID, IMF loans, Worldbank funds, loans, famine assistance, etc.

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The way I see it...
Posted by: vangogh69 on Feb 19, 2007 2:31 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The US isn't leaving Iraq without being forced out by another superpower capable of dictating terms, i.e. China. Til that happens, we're there for good, regardless of how many "brave heros" are killed in battle. The US cannot pull out of Iraq for the troubling fact that to do so would signal the further collapse of America as an imperial power (something our invasion of the country initially signaled). A US withdrawal would see unprecedented challanges to US global hedgemeony with dozens of demonstations, the world over, for a removal of US neo-colonies (a.k.a. military bases) which would then lead to a series of catastrophes for the US ruling elites. The US "war on terror" is merely a "war of terror" aimed at securing the geo-strategic position of the US while it now becomes an indebted economic imperial power. Don't hold out hope for either party, nor a President Clinton/Barack ending the war either...they're just as sly as the rest of those whores in Washington.

Now, as far as the "bloodbath" or "apocalypse" in Iraq which would happen if the US left: well, by most accounts, the place is like hell on earth now. If I were an Iraqi, I'd have a hard time imagining things getting worse.

And on an unrelated note, let's remember that while we're spreading "freedom and democracy" around the world (one Middle Eastern Country At A Time), it was here, in the US, that thousands died due to government neglect and incompitence (aka "Hurricane Katrina" or "That place formerly known as New Orleans where the levees broke and the government left the survivors to die").

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Too much analysis and too little correct action.
Posted by: willymack on Feb 19, 2007 3:12 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So what if the situation in Iraq is a hopelessly tangled mess of opposing factions, feuds, and vendettas? We deposed Saddam and found no WMDs, the original stated purposes for illegally invading Iraq in the first place, so why the hell are we still there? To act as targets for the Iraqis, who don't want us there under ANY circumstances? We're there because we (the corporate fat cats-not the American people) went there to steal the Iraqi's oil and started a phony war to do just that. Add this to the list of dirty lies and foul deeds committed in our name. The right thing to do, now, is to neutralize the bush regime's power to wage war on a whim, and begin the process ending with these evil bastards in prison,while getting our military personnel the hell out of that hellhole.

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Here's how Gen. Odom handled the question
Posted by: lessbread on Feb 19, 2007 4:32 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Gen. Odom went on Hugh Hewitt's show recently. Here's how he responded to Hewitt's fears of a massacre in Iraq if we left.


HH: Now you also write in the article that we must, that you dismiss the idea it will get worse if we leave.

WO: No, I said it doesn’t matter how bad it gets, it’s not going to get better by us staying there. You see, I’m not one of those…I personally think that we might end up finding less of a terrible aftermath than we’ve pumped ourselves up to expect, because the President and a lot of other people have really made a big thing of trying to scare us about that. What I’m saying is even if their scare scenarios turn out to be the case, that is the price we have to pay to get out of this trap, and eventually bring a stability to that region which if the Iraqis and other Arab countries want to become liberal systems, they can do it. They’re not going to do it the way we’re headed there now.


Retired General William Odom argues for immediate withdrawal in Iraq, regardless of what happens next.

The interview is worth the read. So is Odom's recent WaPo op-ed: Victory Is Not an Option.

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» Victory! Posted by: Dboy
Gary J Minter
Posted by: garyjminter on Feb 20, 2007 1:50 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Looking back in history and time, can we learn from the past?

Human nature makes us want our own space, "MySpace" if you will, free from meddling and interference by "outsiders" whether foreign armies, spies, parents, neighbors, or thieves...

Sometimes, when a government is especially brutal or corrupt, people ask outsiders to help free them from oppression...but they don't want their liberators to become their new oppressors.

When the former USSR ran a puppet government in Kabul, Afghanistan during the 1980's, the Afghans eventually wore them down, with active help of the United States under President Reagan, "foreign" Muslims like wealthy eccentric Osama bin Laden, and fierce fighting by Muhajedeen and Taliban militia, local warlords, and others who wanted the Russian troops out. Russia eventually got the message.

The US got the same message in Viet Nam during the 1970's, when, after taking over from the French colonialists, American troops tried to prop up various corrupt, pro-Western warlords in Saigon, only to be eventually overwhelmed by patriotic nationalists and communists from the North led by Ho Chi Minh and General Giap.

The United States later learned that Iranians also wanted to run their own country, not be ruled by US-backed Shah Reza Pahlavi, who was very friendly to American and British oil companies, and a bit unfriendly (SAVAK) to his own people when they dared to defy him....so Iranian "fundamentalists" led by Ayatollah Khomeini and others took back their country, and took Americans hostage as a show of their anger toward the USA.

Later, Ronald Reagan wanted to win the White House, and to fight Danny Ortega in Nicaragua, so he made various clandestine arms and money deals with the Iranians, Israelis, and Contras through BCCI and Ollie North.

We could mention the strong US support of Saddam Hussein during the Reagan-Bush 1980s, when Saddam was killing all political opponents, gassing the Kurds, and suppressing the Shiites in Iraq, and launching an invasion against his neighbor Iran which cost millions of lives and accomplished nothing.

Maybe a few other names from the past: Ferdinand Marcos of the Phillipines, Papa Doc Duvalier (Voodoo! and Tonton Macoutes) of Haiti, the Somoza family of Nicaragua, Batista and Prio of Cuba (before Fidel kicked out the American mobsters, gamblers, and corporate honchos), Augusto Pinochet of Chile, who, with the support of President Nixon and ITT, led a coup which resulted in the death of legally-elected Salvadore Allende....how about (Joseph) Mobutu Sese Seku, who killed reformer Patrice Lumumba and became US-British backed dictator of the Congo (Zaire) for decades, managing to hoard billions in gold and leave behind an inherently unstable government after his death, as Saddam did?

Need I go on? What goes around, comes around, maybe not quite "instant Karma" as John Lennon sang about, but eventually bad deeds come back to haunt those who do them...

I know it's easy to criticize, and be a Monday-morning quarterback, and it is true that international geopolitics is "no picnic"...sometimes the choices are not easy....

But doesn't it seem wrong to support gangsters, murderers, and those who sell out and betray their own people, for the sake of cheap oil, sugar, fruit, gold, diamonds, or anything else? For the sake of trade advantages and good deals for corporate CEOs and wealthy investors in America and Europe?

Blind idealism is often unwise...but shouldn't there should be some basic morality, some basic human decency and honesty, in foreign and domestic policy, even if it means higher prices for consumers and lower profits for corporate stockholders and CEOs?

Gary J. Minter
http://spaces.msn.com/aidschina/
http://aidsvillagechina.blog.sohu.com
www.healthchina.org

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An interesting assessment
Posted by: armybrat8 on Feb 23, 2007 12:28 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
First off, don't knock the Burger King, or the Popeye's Chicken. Those places are okay, but the best is by far the coffee houses. I was in Baghdad for a year. Absolutely mission-essential (okay so I am just an addict.) But seriously, all of the above is in trailers (the vast majority without even plumbing to pull up), or in pre-existing buildings. Won't be that hard for the Iraqis to move the trailers out of the way when we do leave, or alternatively, let people have them.

I like this article's assessment of the situation in Iraq as far as the Sunnis are concerned. They are a minority, and Al Qaeda won't have a let to stand on after we are gone. "Come kill your co-religionists the Shia" doesn't have the same clout as "Come kill the imperialist Zionist Infidel American Occupiers!" The Sunnis may indeed make their own enclaves, but they will be more concerned with defending themselves from Shiites than trying to be Al-Qaeda.

The Shia, however, WILL continue their press to ethnically cleanse their areas of all Sunnis. This goes on as we speak, as the author points out, and to this point we have done nothing about it. But now we have a new plan, which is supposed to target any "disturbers of peace," even if they are of the American-favored Shia majority. We are trying to give the populace some measure of security, which Iraqis can maintain after we are gone. Should they choose to...

"This shared desire could be another crucial force in helping maintain the integrity of Iraq. The catch-22 of Iraqi politics is that any Iraqi government created or supported by the United States is instantly suspect in Iraqi eyes. By the same token, a nationalist government that succeeds in ushering U.S. forces out of Iraq would have overwhelming support from most Iraqis on most sides of the conflict. With that support, such a government might be able to make the difficult compromises -- like amending the constitution to give minority protections to Sunnis -- that the Maliki government has been unable or unwilling to make but that most observers believe are crucial to any political settlement that might end the fighting."

This is too optimistic. I don't see much hope of compromise. It is more likely that an autocratic leader will rise up, establish authority, and destroy his rivals. This is the going pattern in that region. Second option is status quo anarchy.

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