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No One's Drinking Bush's Kool-Aid on Iran

By Robert Dreyfuss, TomPaine.com. Posted February 15, 2007.


Bush is discovering that boldly lying about Iran isn't enough. He needs his chorus of liars behind him ... and they're all gone.

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It was, President Bush must have been thinking, a heck of a lot easier five years ago. Back in 2002, the president had a smoothly running lie factory humming along in the Pentagon, producing reams of fake intelligence about Iraq, led by Undersecretary of Defense for Policy Doug Feith and his Office of Special Plans. Back then, he had a tightly knit cabal of neoconservatives, led by I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby, based in Vice President Dick Cheney's office, to carry out a coordinated effort to distribute the lies to the media. And he had a chorus of yes-men in the Republican-controlled Congress ready to echo the party line.

In 2007, Bush stands nearly alone, and he never looked lonelier than during a bumbling, awkward news conference on the Iraq-Iran tangle Wednesday.

Feith is long gone, and last week his lie factory was exposed by the Pentagon's own inspector general, who told Congress that Feith had pretty much made up everything that his rogue intelligence unit manufactured. Libby is long gone, apparently about to be sentenced to jail for lying about Cheney's frantic effort to cover up the lie factory's work. And the congressional echo chamber is gone: In six weeks, the Democrats have held more than four dozen hearings to investigate the White House's catastrophic Middle East policy, and even Hillary Clinton is warning that Bush had better keep his hands off Iran, saying: "It would be a mistake of historical proportions if the administration thought that the 2002 resolution authorizing force against Iraq was a blank check for the use of force against Iran."

Without his Orwellian apparatus behind him, the president spent most of his hour-long news conference yesterday shrugging and smirking, jutting his jaw out with false bravado, joshing inappropriately with reporters asking deadly serious questions and stumbling over his words. It was painful to listen to him trying to justify the nonsensical claims that Iran and its paramilitary "Quds Force" are somehow responsible for the chaos in Iraq:

What we do know is that the Quds force was instrumental in providing these deadly IEDs to networks inside of Iraq. We know that. And we also know that the Quds force is a part of the Iranian government. That's a known. What we don't know is whether or not the head leaders of Iran ordered the Quds force to do what they did.
Pressed about what the "head leaders" are doing, he went on:
Either they knew or didn't know, and what matters is, is that they're there. What's worse, that the government knew or that the government didn't know? ... What's worse, them ordering it and it happening, or them not ordering it and it happening?
If that makes no sense to you, well, that's because the whole thing makes no sense. It's a farcical replay of Iraq 2002, when the White House demonized Saddam Hussein with fake intelligence, turning him into a menacing al-Qaida backer armed with weapons of mass destruction. This time, however, the lie factory has been dismantled. All by himself, the president is trying to turn Iran into a scary, al-Qaida-allied, nuke-wielding menace. But he's not fooling anyone. The potent "war president" of 2002-2003 is now an incoherent, mewling Wizard of Oz-like figure, and people are paying attention to the man behind the curtain.

Unlike 2002, when the White House fired salvo after salvo of fake intelligence about Iraq, today it can't even stage its lies properly. Like the incompetents who couldn't organize a two-car funeral, the remaining Iran war hawks in the administration held a briefing in Baghdad on Sunday to present alleged evidence that Iran is masterminding the insurgency in Iraq. But it was a comedy of errors that convinced no one. Twice, at least, the administration had earlier postponed or canceled the much-promoted event, designed to reveal the supposed secrets behind Iran's actions in Iraq. When it was finally held, it was not in Washington, but in Baghdad, with not a single White House official, no U.S. diplomat, no State Department official, no CIA official and no one from the Office of the Director of National Intelligence. Instead, a couple of anonymous military officers held a background-only briefing, barring cameras and tape recorders, to present some blurry photographs of bomb-looking things -- and not a shred of evidence of Iranian government involvement.

It was as if Adlai Stevenson had gotten up at the United Nations during the missile crisis in Cuba and, rather than showing detailed U-2 photographs of missile emplacements, had simply said, "Ladies and gentleman, some Cuban guy we talked to said the Russians are putting missiles in Cuba."

According to The Washington Times, the effort to blame Iran was directly torpedoed by the U.S. intelligence community, through the Office of the Director of National Intelligence. The ODNI, said the Times, "sought to play down the intelligence on Iranian involvement, fearing that the report will be used as a basis to launch an attack on Iran." Many earlier reports noted that both the State Department and the U.S. intelligence community were strongly opposed to any attempt to demonize Iran. There's nothing like a bureaucracy scorned to conduct passive-aggressive sabotage of misguided policies, and in this case the bureaucracy apparently succeeded. The dog-and-pony show on Iranian meddling in Iraq not only didn't scare anyone, it caused guffaws of laughter and ridicule.

And then there was the hilarious presidential press conference yesterday, to top it off.

There is, of course, no basis for arguing that the civil war in Iraq is caused by Iran. And there is no basis -- "not supported by underlying intelligence," as the Pentagon I.G. said about Doug Feith's 2002 work -- to argue that Iran is responsible for a significant part of American deaths in Iraq. Nearly all of the U.S. casualties in Iraq are caused by the secular-Baathist Sunni-led resistance and religious Sunni extremists fighting the occupation, and none of the forces allied with the resistance have ties to Iran. Even the anonymous briefers at the dog-and-camel show in Baghdad admitted that Iran is helping the Shiite militias, not the Sunnis; in other words, Iran is helping the self-same militias that are being trained and armed by the United States.

And the spurious claim that 170 Americans have died in attacks using Iranian-supplied super-IED's since 2004 can only mean one thing: that the Pentagon is counting the numbers of U.S. soldiers and Marines who died in April and August, 2004. That was when the United States waged two mini-wars against Muqtada al-Sadr's Mahdi Army. It was the only time in the past four years when the United States suffered significant casualties fighting the Shiites -- though the administration presented zero evidence that Sadr's Mahdi Army gets weapons from Iran, or needs to. But if they're counting as far back as 2004 -- and, according to the Pentagon, the super-IED's started showing up in 2004 -- then the whole issue is absurd, since what happened three years ago has little or no relevance to current conditions.

Those prone to believe, along with the president, that Iran is fomenting the violence in Iraq have already drunk deep of the neocon Kool-Aid. The rest of us can only shake our heads in wonder that the president thinks he can get away with this.

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See more stories tagged with: iran, bush, lies

Robert Dreyfuss is the author of "Devil's Game: How the United States Helped Unleash Fundamentalist Islam" (Henry Holt/Metropolitan Books).

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This is the sharpest...
Posted by: Bobsays on Feb 15, 2007 10:14 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
and most timely piece of writing I have seen on Alternet in awhile. This is spot on - now comes the hard part: how many Americans are going to look at Alternet (answer: I hope all of them).

The picture has been painted for us over the past two years. Bush is just waiting to hang it. But people could call him on it. Though we know the Dems won't.

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» Cut the racist lies, buddy Posted by: Citizendeane
» Racist lies? Posted by: slydad
This is the sharpest...
Posted by: Bobsays on Feb 15, 2007 10:14 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
and most timely piece of writing I have seen on Alternet in awhile. This is spot on - now comes the hard part: how many Americans are going to look at Alternet (answer: I hope all of them).

The picture has been painted for us over the past two years. Bush is just waiting to hang it. But people could call him on it. Though we know the Dems won't.

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» Check out his book Posted by: Donna_Darko
» Bush changed everthing Posted by: edgar_michel
» The US got involved in 1957 Posted by: Donna_Darko
» RE: The US got involved in 1957 Posted by: edgar_michel
» Right Posted by: Donna_Darko
» I Wish.... Posted by: CatDad
Proving Negatives
Posted by: rwa on Feb 15, 2007 10:15 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It becomes incumbent on Bush's critics to make the case that the Iranian government isn't involved in attacks on U.S. forces. Bush, on the other hand, takes the posture that he won't wait for dangerous threats to gather until they're perfectly clear. It's an emotionally compelling stance. Unfortunately, we've seen its effects in Iraq for the past four years.

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» RE: Proving Negatives Posted by: moflard
» RE: Proving Negatives Posted by: rotorooter
What Bush says is merely a formality . . .
Posted by: Moonray on Feb 15, 2007 11:00 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
because he and his party have the power to do pretty much anything they want. That's what's so wrong with out system: We have no way to control a renegade president once he has taken office. Our cowardly Democratic majority in Congress doesn't even have the cajones to cut off funding for the stupid war.

Americans need to pressure Congress to rewrite the War Powers Act to impose much tighter rules on the use of military force. We also need a procedure in Congress for calling for a "vote of confidence" in any president who has embarked upon an unpopular course of action. A president who loses the vote would have to resign.

All this is pie-in-the-sky, of course. I'm afraid our political system is so flawed that our country cannot survive for long. Our system rewards corruption and stupidity while penalizing honesty and fair dealing, which is why the Republicans usually occupy the White House and are very like to occupy it again in 2009. I'm afraid not much will change until the nation is destroyed by nuclear war or suffers a major economic collapse.

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» I agree with the first part but... Posted by: edgar_michel
It's a bit confusing
Posted by: Benjamin on Feb 15, 2007 11:15 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
While I agree with the basic point that we must be very skeptical of the adminstration rhetoric, I'm not sure what to make of the admission that Iran is helping the same Shiite militas that we are arming. In other words, one could say that both Iran and the US are backing some key players in the Iraq chaos! I don't trust 'our' militias any more than the rest. The whole situation is confused and crazy, and invading Iran would only magnify the situation.

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Despite Everything Said Above
Posted by: NoPCZone on Feb 15, 2007 11:27 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
He can still order a strike against Iran at his whim as things currently stand. The bigger question is:
What is anybody inside or outside the government prepared to do about it?

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» RE: Despite Everything Said Above Posted by: edgar_michel
» mutiny, plain and simple Posted by: brotherjonah
Yarmulkes are not in the air
Posted by: opeluboy on Feb 15, 2007 12:39 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How sad it must be for Olmert. I mean he races over here, pronounces Ahmajinadad the new Hitler to the standing ovations of Congress and assumes we are going to expend more blood and treasure for his shitty little criminal country's hegemony, and then what? Someone says no. Oy vey.

Meanwhile back home Bibi is still desperately lobbying for war and mass death, warning of a second holocaust, as are several other Israeli nutbars and supremacists. And while there is no lack of obsequious congresspeople eager trounce over there and suck on whatever they stick in their faces, it just isn't working.

Oh sure, Gingrich and Clinton and Romney and Edwards and Obama all get on their knees and swear their undying devotion to Israel and threaten Iran with nuclear annihilation, but something's holding them back. It might be well-justified fear of bringing the world to a sizzling, horrific end.

Not that that will stop the Israelis and their supporters here from racheting up the bullshit, but this time the American people may just not buy it. Yes, we're stupid, but even lower animals learn by repetition.

Americans are also beginning to realize just exactly who is fomenting all this blood and death and destruction. It does not bode well for Tel Aviv or her agents here, in and out of our government. One more disaster like Iraq, Afghanistan, Lebanon and Palestine might be a bit much. It could actually result in influential and overpaid people like Kristol, Krauthammer, Gordon, Pollack and the rest of the Israel-first journalism corps losing prestige, even their jobs.

So yarmulkes are definitely not in the air in Tel Aviv (or New York) right now as Americans seem to be deciding that we have slaughtered enough of Israel's enemies for the time being, had enough of our sons and daughters die, and that setting the entire world on fire for a failed ideology might not be the best plan.

Of course we could always have another 9-11 incident and then all bets are off.

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This is what you should be doing
Posted by: Entheogenic on Feb 15, 2007 12:47 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Thank you, Alternet, for actually posting something relevant, well written, and serious. There have been way too many articles that have none of those attributes lately. This is what you should be doing, not turning out vague crap about feminism and porn.

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damn it
Posted by: Phenix on Feb 15, 2007 12:51 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
grr, this is the last time i try to write a post in this damn box. just lost a page of writing. damn it!

Anyway decent article but he does not address that simple reality that Iran is active in Iraq but that it is active with our allies the Shia and not active with insurgent groups that are killing US troops or with the mehidi army.

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» RE: damn it, to bad Posted by: edgar_michel
Camel in the room
Posted by: Sushi on Feb 15, 2007 1:53 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The camel in the room is that the Saudi's backing the Sunni insurgents who are killing our American soldiers. Oh, I forgot...the Saudi's are Bush's family business partners, shhhh, we can't say nothing bad about them. If the Iranians are supplying the Shiites against us, then why the hell are we training the Shiites? You mean the soldiers are training their own killers?
Problem is, BushCo is making money hand-over-fist selling supplies to both sides of this contrived "war". We are selling "surplus" supplies to Iran! "Surplus"?? Excuse me?? I thought our troops were going without body armor and up-armored vehicles...we got surplus?
When W says "We've got to complete the mission", he means the contract-under-duress for Iraq's oil is not yet signed. (Why do you think our "allies" all left...they found out that they were not going to get a cut.) That and there's still a few dollars left in the treasury of our grandchildren's future and he ain't got that yet.
Quote from Bush: "Money takes precedence over....uh....um...peace sometimes. Heh-heh-heh"

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it's official
Posted by: brotherjonah on Feb 15, 2007 4:28 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
we're screwed.

I wonder if Cheney is going to arrange a little hunting accident in the oval office....

Only question is which one of them walks out and which one gets diagnosed as "heart attack caused by BB".

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Look for Tel Aviv's hand in this
Posted by: sofla100 on Feb 15, 2007 5:50 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Look, Iran is going to back the Shia and Maliki, why would they back the insurgents anyway? Like everything else GW Bush does or conjures up, it does not even make any sense. The bottom line, I bet Iran can and would easily accept even Maliki, an American puppet but still Shia. This is better for them, much better, then all out civil war and the Saudi's getting the upper hand. So, why pick a fight anyway with Iran? All America has to do is a call a peace conference with Iran, Syria, Turkey and the Saudis all present and you could have an agreement in less than a day. Easily. But, Bush refuses, but why? Is it that Tel Aviv prefers total chaos (vs. peace with Iran having the upper hand due to religious sectarianism?) I will betcha.

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Shia militias
Posted by: Loveandlight on Feb 15, 2007 8:50 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So the worst thing that could be said would be that Iran is giving arms to fanatical splinter Shia militias that are trying to kill US troops, because the two big Shia militia groups, the SCIRI-affilliated Badr Brigade and Moqtada Al-Sadr's Mahdi Army, are not currently fighting US troops. Even that doesn't hold much water because Iran backs SCIRI, which is the main group holding sway over the puppet government in Baghdad.

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money trumps peace
Posted by: drbyrom on Feb 15, 2007 11:13 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
i was apalled by bush's "money trumps peace,,,,, sometimes" comment

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» RE: money trumps peace Posted by: Sushi
» RE: money trumps peace Posted by: feduphoosier
» RE: money trumps peace Posted by: drbyrom
Do the research and connect the dots, folks
Posted by: LeftWright on Feb 16, 2007 12:08 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There are no surprises here, just more of the same pathological "projects" that have brought us over 40 years of "terrorism" including 9/11, 7/7 and the Madrid train bombings.

Genocide is now going on daily in Iraq with our tax dollars, what are you going to do about it?

The truth shall set us free. Love is the only way forward.

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The problem is WHEN HE 9-11'S AGAIN...
Posted by: xbj on Feb 16, 2007 5:18 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This cabal doesn't need the echo chamber... they don't need a complicit media.... they don't need a goose-stepping Nazi GOP Congress Zieg Heiling in Nuremburg.... they don't need anything.

Anything but what they have in the works, what has been leaked to the internet for MORE THAN A YEAR.

Their next 9-11. A false-flag attack (really from Israel or from our own Special Forces) on a siting-duck ship in a very crowded Gulf, or on vital American assets in Iraq, one that will be so heinous and so unthinkable that it could possibly actually be from ourselves or one of our allies, that will immediately be blamed on Iran, and trust me, before Congress can even assemble to gather their wits, the nukes will be dropping like rain on Tehran.

Or so they the cabal THINKS. They are going to find out the hard way that China, Russia, and the entire rest of the planet has OTHER plans for the US before they can even ATTEMPT TO launch, what will be their very last, and very suicidal, attempt at controlling the Mideast while simultaneously raping every last worthless penny from American taxpayers in the worthless Treasury.

Not going to happen this time, boys. Pick up the ball and go to your homes and miserable worthless families, before that semi barrelling down that quiet residential street at 110 m.p.h. rides right over you and your ball and turns all of you and your stupid game into bloody meat.

Trust me. You DON'T want to face God. Not in your current state.

And I promise you. There IS a God, and you WILL. And MUCH SOONER than you think.

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who provided the IEDs?
Posted by: kelt65 on Feb 16, 2007 8:43 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Doesn't anyone remember the 30 or so TONS of c4 grade explosive that just "went missing" a few years ago?

The insurgents need no help from Iran when the US is providing the IEDs. That's 60,000 pounds of explosives.

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CARLA JANSON
Posted by: hefalumpe on Feb 16, 2007 9:23 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
IF WE WERE NOT IN IRAQ IN THE FIRST PLACE NONE OF THIS WOULD MATTER.... AND WE NEVER SHOULD HAVE INVADED. WE NEVER HAD ANY RIGHT TO BE THERE. SO THE OBVIOUS SOLUTION IS TO LEAVE AND LET THE MIDDLE EASTERN COUNTRIES AND FACTIONS SETTLE THEIR OWN AFFAIRS. THE ANSWER IS, AS ALWAYS, LESS WAR, NOT MORE.

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Kool Aid
Posted by: dolkar on Feb 16, 2007 9:27 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It would be nice to take comfort in Mr. Dreyfuss' assertion, but multitudes of Americans drank deeply of neocon kool aid years ago and we are only now witnessing the merest stumbling stirring of awakening in the masses while the delusional Neocon World View machinery rolls on, focused, funded, empowered and determined. This administration will presume all power that is not specifically, forcefully denied to it, and I'm not seeing any cause to be wildly optimistic about forceful denial yet.

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» RE: Kool Aid Posted by: DaBear
Crying Wolf
Posted by: hotlipsin61 on Feb 16, 2007 11:33 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"President" Bush is desperate. He claims Iran is arming the resistance and touting weapons before cameras to make his point.
The occupation of Iraq is a failure and he appears to antagonize Iran into a fight. The dummkopf has lost his mind.
He reminds me of that little boy Peter who cries wolf and there are no wolves around in the desert. Bush should be committed into an asylum like those men in Duerrenmatt's "The Physicists."

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EXTREMELY DANGEROUS LAME DUCK
Posted by: Astro on Feb 16, 2007 11:53 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Assuming Lame Duck Bush doesn't want to leave office with his Iraq failure being the outstanding event of his presidency, I am EXTREMELY worried that he will try to redeem his presidency by a missle attack on Iran's nuclear sites. Despite the generation of chaos such an attack will bring to the world, he will believe he is leaving office having saved the world and Israel in particuclar from the threat of Iranian nukes. With his missle ships already on station in the Persian Gulf,
I feel this scenerio is EXTREMELY LIKELY unless, somehow,
world and U.S. pressures forcefully intervene.

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» RE: more like cornered dog Posted by: ng1944
KOOL-AID STATE
Posted by: Hal on Feb 16, 2007 12:54 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
“No one’s drinking Bush’s Kool-Aid on Iran…”

Really?

On what basis is that assumption made?

Hint: This is as much a limited hangout crock as 911 cover-up and the criminally bogus “war on terror itself.

1st of all rodeo clown Bush and his temp regime is just palming off the carny MSM Kool-Aid – they don’t make it. The robber baron plutocracy in charge of the U.S. does that. And it’s a plutocracy that has been in power from before the Gilded Age when oligarchs foisted the “Federal Reserve” Corp bunko con onto America.

Where do you think wars and financial dislocations come from? It’s called Freedom to Fascism .

As others here have said Congress can’t even muster a non-binding resolution to reign in the faux “neocon” front move to hijack the Mid East and Eurasia. All at public cost for private oligarchs, of course.

If citizen sheep ever stop drinking the whorehouse MSM bathwater and wake up, we may just have a chance. Outside of that, there’s a long hard road into a very deep ditch for America. And we’re already halfway down it.

Ah, but don’t sweat it for multinational oligarchs. They’ll do fine.

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Ironically, Bush is not lying. Just insane.
Posted by: StoneRiley on Feb 16, 2007 1:26 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Ironically, Bush is not lying. Just insane.

Ironically, Bush is not lying. Just insane.

Is the Iranian government supplying weapons (and other support) to organizations who kill U.S. troops in Iraq? That is, frankly, a stupid question. Of course they are now and/or have in the past and/or will in the future. Of course.

For one thing, can you name any armed faction in Iraq that does not kill U.S. troops occasionally? And can you possibly conceive of any reason why Iran would refrain from supporting their favorite armed factions in Iraq?

Well then, let’s take it farther. Are there actual Iranian soldiers (like special operations teams) acting against U.S. troops in Iraq? That is also, frankly, a stupid question. Of course they are in Iraq now and/or have been in the past and/or will be in the future. Of course.

Like, for example, who else but them shot down those five helicopters in three weeks recently? That just happened to happen at a time when the Cheney / Bush propaganda for attacking Iran was gearing up, and it certainly did inspire Pace and Gates to rush out and start neutralizing the Cheney / Bush propaganda. Shooting down those aircraft certainly served Iran’s most important needs, so it was probably their troops whom they entrusted to do it.

Iran is most certainly active against us in Iraq to whatever degree they feel is necessary. Of course.

But this is not a stupid question: What should we do about it?

And the only sane answer is: Just about nothing.

If we attack Iran beyond some point of toleration (and who knows how far that might be?) then our troops in Iraq will immediately be cut off and marooned by attacks on their supply lines. Helicopters will fall like autumn leaves. The big cargo planes will be shot at too, and some shot down. Fortunately, sane people like Pace and Gates know this.

Note that the U.S. high command denied vehemently that the copter were shot down by missiles, despite eyewitness and Iraqi army reports. That particular piece of truth might have reinforced the Bush insanity.

Stone Riley
www.stoneriley.com

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Good Article, Good Posts, BUT THINGS LEFT OUT
Posted by: bob t on Feb 16, 2007 1:55 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Robert Dreyfuss,
Thank you for a very good-excellent article.
The posts were also very good.
But there are other issues that all posters and readers need to remember and the most primary item is that 'we the people' no longer run or in any way control our government. I agree with Mr. Dreyfuss's title to some extent that many of the liars that backed up Bush and gave the repubs the echo chamber are gone BUT NOT ALL. The MSM are still helping Bush, Cheney and the repubs spin their lies. They are equally and still dangerous as is BushCo/ Repubs. We cannot just critically analyse BushCo we must keep reminding each other that there are these other forces that continue to block 'we the people' and cover Bush's ass. People and organizations like Tim Russert, Glenn Beck, Fox&Co&Friends, Tucker Carlson, Joe Scarborough, Rush L, Ass Coulter and so many others.
Also we must remember that the "Three Pillars Of Republican Support and Sources of Power" are the Big Corporatocracy, Big Neocons and Big Religion. We are all clear on the first two but the last need to be really focused on because they tend to be somewhat behind the scenes and yet can do, are doing and have done great damage to our country and the ME and the world. If we are going to begin open discussions of the Israeli influence we must remember that it is the Israeli government that needs to be looked at because a clear majority of the Israeli people/jews have clamored for a just and lasting peace and are sick and disgusted with these endless wars. So yes I agree there needs to be an open discussion of the Israeli influence in our gov't but we must not blame Israeli jews nor american jews whom 90% vote democratic party. So the Israeli gov't doesn't listen to their people nor does our BushCo/Republican Party gov't listen to us. And if we are going to openly discuss jewish involvement over our gov't then I, a Catholic, INSIST AND DEMAND THAT THE CATHOLIC CHURCH BE EQUALLY AND OPENLY DISCUSSED. I have posted many times about the Pope and the Catholic control over U.S. politics and policy both foreign and domestic, and it is HUGE, far huger than you folks comprehend. The Catholic Church, my church is a staunch ally of the Rethuglikkkan Party and has been since a bit before Reagan got elected and as a result that is why America ended up with Reagan, Bush41 and Bush43. Unlike when I grew up the catholic church is totally different now. It is the same as the evangelicals. Pope John Paul II got Reagan elected and aligned the catholic church and catholic voters with the rethug party of thugs and bullies. There are five catholics on the SCOTUS. The rethug party is rampant with catholic pols. Do we remember Brownback, Santorum, Boehner and Jean Schmidt(rethug from Cinn, Oh who called Murtha a 'Cut And Run' american. In the past almost all catholics were Dems but the exact opposite is true now, ALMOST ALL CATHOLICS ARE RETHUGS, pay attention everyone, please.
PLEASE READ: http://www.reason.com/news/show/35439.html And that article only covers the surface, there is much more. It's lengthy but for many more deatils read: http://www.tbobthoughtsmore.blogspot.com this is important if we are to take back our country from the Popes and Catholic right wing radical evangelical FUNDAMENTALISTS as well as Protestant evangelical Fundies.
The merging of church and state is corrosive and destructive to both. I don't want the Catholic Conspiracy to take our country away from us and use/abuse it. It's very bad for America and equally bad for Catholicism. For those of you who are unaware please, please pay attention. I am not defending the Neocons but it is helpful to know from whence they came. The neocons came from Hitler and the Nazi Party and WWII, the Holocaust.

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...THINGS... Cont'd from previous post
Posted by: bob t on Feb 16, 2007 1:56 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The neocons came from Hitler and the Nazi Party and the Holocaust of WWII. This is in no way meant as a defense of the neocons, who are nothing more than nazis themselves because they are doing the same thing, creating another Holocaust in the Middle East and are as equally as rotten as Hitler was. Hitler and the Nazis were not only helped by the Bush Family(Brown Bros Harriman were bankers for Hitler) but the Nazis were endorsed by Pope Pius XI(Imprimatur via Reichskonkordat of 1933 see wiki et.al)and his successor in 1939, Pius XII. The latter complained/protested almost noty at all about the Holocaust. Hitler and about half of his top advisors were Catholics initially, as was Josef Mengele the Angel of Death. If you read about some of the things he did you will vomit. And finally, notice the links and similarities between the Popes then and now and the Bush Family, the Nazi Party, Yale Univ and the Skull and Bones Society(nazi like) and the Bush Family, Brown Bros Harriman and Averill Harriman-Yale Univ-Skull And Bones-Council On Foreign Relations, The Thule Society-"A New World Order", Bilderberg Group-"A New World Order", Bush41-"A New World Order", Bush43-"A New World Order", Hitler-"A New World Order",Bilderg Group-Prince Bernhard of the Netherlands-Royal Dutch Shell Oil, PNAC-"A New World Order", Council On Foreign Relations-"A New World Order", Council On Foreign Relations-PNAC-Carlyle Group-Bush and Friends, Bill Clinton and G.H.W. Bush-Bilderbergers, The Council On Foreign Relations-"A New World Order", etc.etc.etc. and many ,many more et.ceteras. Then their is the Bush Family-the Saudi Family-the Bin Laden Family, the last two et.al. financed Bin Laden(still running free and exactly why did Bush let him escape when our CIA and Special Forces had him cornered in Dec. 2001 was it the Saudi Family) the Saudis are financing the Suunis who are killing our troops yet GWB keeps ranting about the Iranians, why exactly. I SMELL SOME RATS, many rats.

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Many People Are Waiting For More Kool-Aid
Posted by: TheHellYouSay on Feb 18, 2007 6:09 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Even in the Pacific Northwest we have the right wing kooks who think that any war is a good war, so it's a bit scary especially with your Wizard of Oz analogy being oh so true. The wicked little fatman needs to save his place in history and I'm sure he's sorry, but again, he will "strongly disagree" that the consensus of Congress and/or the American People should be ignored in favor of what he knows to be true because he and Forest Gump have as "their jobs" to "protect the American People". He's ensured that the Executive Branch is strong and I think the brow beating just has to be pushed out to the people a few more times and slowly, surely, the polls will begin to move in their favor. Not a majority, but just enough to get the news media behind them again.

What made me laugh was a news story I saw where they actually showed one of these alleged Iranian weapons with a serial number that was supposedly "the proof" that they came from Iran. Well, the serial number had alpha characters in it from our familiar 28 character English alphabet. Why in the hell would Iran build weapons and mark them using the English language? Oh, I see, those wabbits are being pwetty twicky....using our alphabet! Honestly, they must think its a nation of Elmer Fudd's out here. Maybe Cheney can loan the media his little pea shooter shotgun as the next piece of "evidence".

Great story, thank you!

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does it make any difference
Posted by: bohdan on Feb 21, 2007 5:02 PM   
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The art of smoke and mirrors --- if you have enough of it then who can find the real issue. He's now using it to deflect the display of failure in one place by moving on to another topic, another "bad" country. Unfortunately, he might also blunder into another real war again. Then who knows what next year will bring. It might be...

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Failure is their GOAL
Posted by: Plenum on Feb 22, 2007 3:10 AM   
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You guys don't quite get it. Peace is the last thing they want at this point... The goal for the neoCons IS instability, IS sectarian violence, IS divisiveness... those characteristics within the Arab countries which we would term, "failure".

Failure to achieve peace is THEIR goal. And our Constitution is, to them, an ENEMY document.

Every other week, here in Athens, Greece, we have demonstrations, strikes, many types of anti-government activity going on. Why thehell isn't that going on in the United States of America?????

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