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Are Women Allowed To Be Funny?

By Gloria Goodale, Christian Science Monitor. Posted February 6, 2007.


Comedy mirrors culture, and observers say that both sexes find attractive, aggressively funny women threatening.
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Last Thursday night, "The Sarah Silverman Program" debuted on Comedy Central. If it had aired on regular broadcast TV many punch lines and entire story lines would probably have been "bleeped" or cut. The comedian who has been called a "delightful potty mouth" certainly has a devoted fan base who has followed her from stand-up to the silver screen and now, to the home screen.

Cable television has long pioneered new frontiers in what's funny, allowing comedians to tackle taboo subjects with reckless abandon. That is, if they were male. The fact that Ms. Sliverman -- considered one of comedy's rising stars with her engaging smile and bawdy humor -- has been given room to run proves just how far women have come on the stand-up stage.

Yet, for every step forward, say many comics and cultural observers, when it comes to being funny, women still face many societal prejudices. Nice girls just don't act like that, says comedy veteran Rusty Warren, who recalls male audience members storming out of her shows. Not much has changed today, say observers who suggest that many people, men and women, find attractive, aggressively funny women like Silverman threatening.

Witness the recent column in Vanity Fair which declared "Women Aren't Funny" (written by Christopher Hitchens). And despite the fact that his ABC comedy employed numerous funny women, comic Drew Carey says the prejudices are real. It's not so much that women aren't funny, he explains, as that men don't want them to be funny. "Comedy is about aggression and confrontation and power," says the stand-up comic. "As a culture we just don't allow women to do all that stuff."

Certain roles have been acceptable for women since the rise of mass media: the sexy vamp (think Mae West) or the ditzy klutz (everyone from Carole Lombard to Lucille Ball and Debra Messing). "These roles aren't threatening to men," says actress Jennifer Coolidge who has made a career of crafting cunning but klutzy airheaded females. She adds, "they play into men's stereotypes of women as sexpots or stupid." Indeed, a pregnant Joan Rivers once worried if such a protruding reference to her sexuality, her belly, might hurt her career.

Comedy definitely mirrors the culture, says comedian Kelley Lynn, who is also an adjunct professor and teaches a comedy class at Adelphi University, in Garden City, N.Y. She says she is amazed at the differences between her male and female students. "The boys just seem to come in with all this confidence, whether their material is funny or not," says Ms. Lynn, "whereas the girls come in and say, 'Is this funny?' " Almost always, she adds, the material is just as funny, if not more so, but the girls lack the confidence to deliver it with conviction. "There will continue to be progress for women in the world of comedy as the world changes," Lynn says, "but it may take generations."

The rise of sketch comedy has helped women comics. The collaborative form entered mainstream culture in the '70s with groups such as Monty Python and TV shows such as "Saturday Night Live" (SNL), which has since turned it into a household term. The form has helped nurture generations of successful women comics such as Jane Curtin and Tina Fey. (Fey now has her own show on NBC, "30 Rock," based loosely on her experiences at SNL.)

"We've been incredibly friendly to women over the years," says SNL executive producer Lorne Michaels, who has shepherded the show from its inception.

Sketch comedy is well-suited to encourage women, says Cherie Kerr, one of the founders of the seminal comedy troupe from the '70s, The Groundlings. "Suddenly, comedy wasn't so much about the solo stand-up anymore," she says. "It was about a whole group onstage, working together to make the skit work." While she says with a laugh that SNL is certainly a competitive place, the cooperation and working together is much more a woman's style than the confrontational style of stand-up comedy.

Silverman represents a generation of young comics who've come of age in an era of few restrictions. "I don't think anything is off limits, if it's funny enough," says Silverman. "If it's more funny than offensive to us, then it's fine, no matter what it is."

Nonetheless, says comic Paul Rodriguez, Silverman still faces yet another stubborn stereotype: Pretty women aren't funny, especially when spouting vulgarities. Men still put women on a pedestal where they expect them to behave, well, nicely -- like a mother, says Mr. Rodriguez. "If an unattractive woman tells jokes, it's OK, we'll cut her a break," he says. "It's just a man's world, comedy is full of prejudices, whether we like it or not, it's true."

But good comedy is based on truthful observation, even if it's the painful reality that not much has changed when it comes right down to it, says Diane Salvatore, editor in chief of the Ladies' Home Journal. "People still tend to think of comedy as a job for men, sort of like the presidency," she adds with a rueful laugh.

For the past three years, the magazine has run an annual spotlight on "Funny Ladies We Love." The next one runs in March. Just like politics, good comedy takes courage, says Ms. Salvatore. "We want to do our part to support that."

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Gloria Goodale is a staff writer for The Christian Science Monitor.

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Priorities
Posted by: seamus on Feb 6, 2007 12:20 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I wish you "feminists" would get your priorities straight.
In many parts of the world women suffer genital mutilation, aren't allowed to work and in some countries, are considered responsible if they are raped.
In the US, you bitch about not being laughed at.

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» RE: Priorities Posted by: Intraspecto
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» RE: Priorities Posted by: DBachmozart
» RE: Priorities Posted by: MAD
» A is to B as C is to D... Posted by: writeval
» RE: Priorities Posted by: Megz
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» RE: Priorities Posted by: maddy
» RE: Priorities Posted by: jontv
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» RE: Priorities Posted by: aerdrie
» RE: Priorities?? WTF?? Posted by: carcinoid112
» RE: Priorities?? WTF?? Posted by: hotlipsin61
» RE: Priorities Posted by: jakelivesay
» RE: Priorities Posted by: BazookaTooth
» RE: Priorities Posted by: PopRox80
» RE: Priorities Posted by: Aussie Kim
» RE: Priorities Posted by: stitchwitched
» RE: Priorities Posted by: seamus
» RE: Priorities Posted by: Pine
What about Molly Ivins?
Posted by: rclord on Feb 6, 2007 1:11 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
She was funny, even though she wasn't a comedienne.

I never heard of anyone - male or female - that disapproved of her because of that.

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» RE: What about Molly Ivins? Posted by: maribelle
» RE: What about Molly Ivins? Posted by: willymack
hormones and humor
Posted by: edith on Feb 6, 2007 1:24 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Ellen de Generis funny. Rosie O' Donnell a bore. A good comedian or comedienne is funny when they can laugh at themselves. Head for the exit when a comic begins to believe that he or she is more important than the audience.

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» RE: hormones and humor Posted by: maddy
» RE: hormones and humor Posted by: realmuzik
if Sarah Silverman was actually funny it would be an issue
Posted by: milox on Feb 6, 2007 1:30 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Unfortunately Sarah Silverman isn't funny, or should I say her schtick of the faux ditzy cutsie foul-mouth isn't funny. In person she probably is funny...and that's the rub. SS has created a comic persona (like all comedians) aiming at an angle to get laughs. Her angle seems to be cutsie performance artist channeling dumb fratboys and Lenny Bruce. Dumb fratboys are just dumb and offensive. Lenny Bruce had anger.

Sarah Silverman is trying to play both ends - cutsie and foul. It doesn't work because everyone knows the cutsie thing is an act and the foul stuff is just that foul...no wit, no soul, nothing underneath it that stings but rather just calculated shock...no using the foul as twist or tag to punch us down, nope her foulness is used as a blunt object lacking wit. Nothing in her schtick connects to people, anger, indiginity, humanity, stupidity and thus there's no "truth", just thuds.

Certainly there are sexist and cultural constraints/biases involved in the equation but that's true for any one except white males...and there's plenty of REALLY bad and stupid white male comics.

Frankly if SS looked down deep and tried to channel something real inside herself, or just herself, instead of a calculated character, she might become funny. See Jim Carey on this...dumb impersonator until he cut free and committed. Or see the Elaine Benes character on Seinfeld -- agressive, funny, witty, a little nuts -- but eveyone knows someone like her and actress committed to the character. SS doesn't want to commit, or she can't.

Once SS connects with something inside she'll probably kick butt like all the great ones. Until then I'm just not going to watch, just like I won't watch all the male hacks on the Comedy Channel.

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Seems the problem might be with what you call comedy
Posted by: polyquat50 on Feb 6, 2007 2:08 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Comedy is about aggression and confrontation and power," says the stand-up comic. "As a culture we just don't allow women to do all that stuff."

Australia has no shortage of funny women. Successful female comedians are everywhere, and we love them.

But then, Australian humour is laconic, ironic and self-deprecating.

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Funny is funny.
Posted by: kepstein7777 on Feb 6, 2007 2:58 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Lots of sit-coms and movies prove that pretty girls can be funny, so I'm not so sure about that theory.

I think many female stand-ups talk dirty so they can be one of the boys, or they think it will get them noticed, as if what works in the 900 business will work in comedy. Many times, it comes across as gratuitous and embarassing.

That's part of Silverman's shtick: Cute girl with cute scratchy voice saying naughty things to shock you. I think it works for some people and not others.

Comedy is a tricky business. It either works, or it doesn't. You can't just have an affirmative action program that forces people to laugh at pretty girls' jokes.

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Oh Lord, more "victimism"
Posted by: Moonray on Feb 6, 2007 3:02 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This article is pure nonsense. Most men don't care about the gender of a comedian, as long as the jokes are funny. But some women, like the author, can only relate to the world as victims. They've been brought up to believe themselves to be victims in every situation, and by God they are determined to seek out and identify traces of discrimination, no matter how slight or insignificant those traces might be.

This Victimism Syndrome has become a real problem in our society. Many women -- especially middle-aged women who grew up in the '80s and '90s -- are absolutely neurotic on the issue.

By the way, Sarah Silverman is a good comedian, but her new show sucks. She needs to find better material, and I'm sure she will. She's not the type to sit around and whine and blame men for setbacks in her life.

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» RE: Oh Lord, more "victimism" Posted by: ladmeaux
» RE: Observing MartinBachelor Posted by: carcinoid112
» RE: Observing MartinBachelor Posted by: maribelle
» RE: Observing MartinBachelor Posted by: carcinoid112
» RE: Observing MartinBachelor Posted by: carcinoid112
» RE: Oh Lord, more "victimism" Posted by: stitchwitched
An Aurhority
Posted by: gellero on Feb 6, 2007 3:32 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Since when is Drew Carey an authority on comedy? And if audiences are prejudiced against a comdian they percieve as vulgar, because it's not 'feminine', so what .....most men don't like a woman with a perpetual gutter mouth, any more than they would emulate the speech of ghetto/hood language. This whole article is a bit goofy, sounds more like a topic for an essay in an acting-humanities college course.

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» Drew Carey Posted by: BlueTigress
» RE: Drew Carey Posted by: BassFace
» RE: Drew Carey Posted by: milox
» RE: Drew Carey Posted by: BazookaTooth
» RE: An Aurhority Posted by: ladmeaux
funny like a man
Posted by: pbrantner on Feb 6, 2007 4:05 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We've mostly left behind the days where a woman has to dress like a man in order to be accepted in the business world -- in those ugly boxy suits with faux ties (scarves) -- if you don't believe me, look at how Condoleezza Rice dresses (regardless of what you think about her politics, which of course I mostly abhor). And we're working on leaving behind some of the "career woman" stereotypes where a woman has to act like a man to succeed, by forgoing kids, putting up with discrimination, and trampling on everyone around her to get ahead. (I can't say we're completely there yet, but we've made a lot of progress, in terms of recognizing family flexibility (for both genders), alternate leadership styles, and the need to stamp out the most insidious discrimination.

So why can't we leave behind the days where a female comic has to act like a foul-mouth male in order to get her own show. When I watch Sarah Silverman (I haven't seen the new show, but I've seen her on other events) I just find her sad and pathetic -- not funny. Whatever her schtick is, it's just that -- it doesn't seem genuine. And I'm hardly a prude -- I found Borat to be one of the funniest things I've ever seen in my life -- but it was clever, and only played in stereotypes to upend them, not to reinforce them. I like funny people, and try to surround myself with them. But I feel like Sarah Silverman would be the really annoying friend that you try to spend as little time with as possible, because she's mean, annoying, and not nearly as funny as she thinks she is.

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» RE: funny like a man Posted by: l_m_n
» RE: funny like a man Posted by: maribelle
» RE: funny like a man Posted by: Bozwell
"Are women allowed to be funny?" .....hmmm...
Posted by: Pat Kittle on Feb 6, 2007 4:40 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
....wow, let me think about that......... sure, go ahead, you have my permission.

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kirkinson
Posted by: kirkinson on Feb 6, 2007 5:01 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I've definitely seen evidence of this prejudice in people I know. But I couldn't say it was the dominant view, because I can think of just as many men I know who are turned on by funny, attractive women with foul mouths (and Sarah Silverman specifically). I think the playing field might be leveling faster than this article suggests.

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» RE: kirkinson Posted by: VannaLaRoche
Wow! Another article exploring the subject of women being funny
Posted by: Niche on Feb 6, 2007 5:46 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
For nearly three years, I have been producing a successful weekly stand-up comedy show called Chicks and Giggles in New York City. This all-female comedy show is comprised of both men and women audience members, and they laugh a lot.
Lately, there has been commentary (Hitchens and this article) debating whether women are funny, whether men find them funny or whether funny women can be pretty. The answer is YES! YES! YES! This banal argument can be settled simply by going to Chicks and Giggles or any of the dozen LIVE comedy shows produced by women in NYC. Some are coed (men included), some are sketch comedy or improv, but they are alll FUNNY. Can you please find another topic that is actually debatable like global warming or legwarmers? Thanks!

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» RE:Vanna Posted by: Grampop
» RE: Granpop?? Posted by: carcinoid112
» RE: Granpop?? Posted by: Grampop
» RE: Granpop?? Posted by: carcinoid112
Yeah...
Posted by: JoshuaLudd on Feb 6, 2007 6:29 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
No one wants women to be funny... which must explain Rosanne, Sarah Silverman (who I don't find funny in the least, actually), and all the other women you illustrated for this article.

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» RE: Yeah... Posted by: Metesh-ah
No, both sexes find
Posted by: benter on Feb 6, 2007 7:31 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
shrill, harpy jews annoying.

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» RE: were you J.LUDD, POSTING POLICE Posted by: carcinoid112
» Hypocrite. nm Posted by: JoshuaLudd
» RE: No, both sexes find Posted by: techphile
» RE: No, both sexes find Posted by: aerdrie
» RE: No, both sexes find Posted by: Ellen G
» RE: No, both sexes find Posted by: jmp3954
You know what...
Posted by: JoshuaLudd on Feb 6, 2007 7:35 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Making the woman out right in front for this article Sarah Silverman... who recently had a theatrical release of her standup/skit comedy when NO other comedians are getting that kind of release anymore (Dave Chapelle's movie being the closest comparison... and it still wasn't wholly about his comedy) and who now has her own show on a major cable network discredits ANY claims you want to make here right out of the gate.

You might as well put up pictures of Margarent Thatcher, Angela Merkel, Hillary Clinton, Nancy Pelosi, etc... and question whether or not women can have careers in politics.

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» RE: You know what... Posted by: luckykaruba
One omitted
Posted by: Paul Cardwell on Feb 6, 2007 7:40 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is true that women have been blocked from "speaking truth to power in a funny way" as opposed to the stereotypes discussed. However, within a half year, we lost two of the greatest women to use wit to right wrongs: Ann Richards and Molly Ivins. I don't see any on the horizon and we are the less for that.

Paul Cardwell

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» Ann Richards.... Posted by: morticia
girls telling jokes
Posted by: ladyoracle on Feb 6, 2007 7:40 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's true that women have to try harder and walka finer line than men when it comes to being funny.

I am a performance poet, which is not exactly lik stand-up, but isn't so different either. The guys get away with saying and doing things I could never do. So, I do the cutesy ditzy persona to seem less threatening to men.

Then I wonder why I'm not taken seriously. And at the same time, the women I know who don't do the cutesy ditzy routine end up being left behind, valued just behind all the male performers.

It's a conundrum, and although I understand why some Alternet readers would not think of this as a serious topic, it becomes serious when you look at how this inequality ripples into the culture at large and restricts the self-expression and identities available to the female gender.

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» RE: boys being the joke Posted by: MartianBachelor
» RE: boys being the joke Posted by: aerdrie
» RE: boys being the joke Posted by: morticia
» RE: boys being the joke Posted by: Durga_is_my_homey
» RE: boys being the joke Posted by: swifturtle
» RE: girls telling jokes Posted by: techphile
» RE: girls telling jokes Posted by: MyLeftFoot
» RE: girls telling jokes Posted by: VannaLaRoche
Hillary Will Be Hillarious
Posted by: hole11 on Feb 6, 2007 8:01 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Can you imagine SNL doing Hillary impersonations all the time? And they will bring Bill back. Can't ask for better comedy.

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Or is it just me?
Posted by: northcountyrboy on Feb 6, 2007 8:02 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Funny and attractive women aren't sexy?

C'mon men. If this is true for most men I really feel for all those women out there. Cause that's just pathetic.

Sarah Silverman is smoking hot and funny as a hell. Which is also to say that she is an intelligent, observant woman with a sense of humour. Jackpot- I'd say. Comedy is hard. Making people laugh is tough. Hell, having a brain that gets satire seems to be getting rarer and rarer these days. So more power to you!

And Sarah- call me.

Sean

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Men are just funnier - plain and simple
Posted by: JCR on Feb 6, 2007 8:19 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I know how inflammatory that is but I really don't care. It's the truth and most people, if they let themselves admit as much, will come to that conclusion. I can't explain why it's that way but it just is.

We have no problem stating that women are generally more empathetic or nurturing, so why the hell can't we say that men are generally funnier? We can't because it flies in the face of the "women can do most everything better than men but men can't do anything better than women" dogma that dominates feminist circles right now. You can frame this debate as one of oppressed women and our misogynistic society if you like, but maybe it's as simple as saying these women just aren't that funny! So you keep telling yourselves that Rosie, Sarah and Roseanne are just as funny while I go enjoy some Robin, Lenny and George.

Flame away . . .

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» Williams Branched... Posted by: ABetterFuture
» RE: Williams Branched... Posted by: babs
» I don't like on George Carlin... Posted by: ABetterFuture
» RE: Men are just funnier - Spanky Posted by: carcinoid112
What?!
Posted by: monkeywrench on Feb 6, 2007 8:40 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Comedy mirrors culture, and observers say that both sexes find attractive, aggressively funny women threatening."

Oh, geeez. Just one more reason that I'm out of the loop of contemporary culture: I think Tina Fey is HOT! ...And funny.

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» RE: What?! Posted by: steve-a-saurus
Newsflash: Women ARE Funny; Society is Still Sexist. More at 11
Posted by: lisag on Feb 6, 2007 9:35 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is so ridiculous to me that it is even a discussion whether or not women are funny. Some women are funny, some are not. Some men are funny; others are not.

Comedy is a sexist field, as are ALL other fields.

I am a woman who is also a comic so I see it from the inside. I also have been a producer of comedy shows for 15 years, one of them being Funny Girlz http://www.koshercomedy.com - The line-up for this particular show is all women, but the audience is men and women -- with people laughing at FUNNY comedians. There are so many unfunny comedians out there, and yes, many are men as they are the ones who largely get the stage time, and it's still a boys' club with guys patting each other on the back saying how funny they were, and the comedy club bookers booking them. I am often stunned when I see what comics get hired. I feel that what then happens is a "dumbing down of the audience" effect; this is now what they know, and this is what they expect (from stand up).

I used to fight with the organizers of an annual large outdoor comedy day in my city (San Francisco) for years, trying to convince them that a ratio of 54 men to 6 women was not balanced. My favorite response one year was that one of the local woman comedians did some off-color ("dirty") material, and it was offensive. I went back a few years later and watched most of the male comedians doing worse than offensive.

Funny is funny. I don't care if it is coming from a man or a woman. But to across the board make a statement that women aren't funny is such a sweeping generalization and a falsehood. Yes, and people with blue eyes are terrible drivers. C'mon, what year is this?

And as far as Sarah Silverman is concerned, I don't get the appeal. The best I can guess is that guys like an allegedly cute woman with a dirty mouth. The TV reporter in my local paper raved about her show last week; I was never a fan of her comedy but decided to watch the show and give it a chance. Fart jokes, how original. We can all do better than that, male or female.

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My opinion
Posted by: aonghus36 on Feb 6, 2007 10:18 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think Sarah Silverman has what it takes to be a good comedienne, but I think she is more concerned about what she can get away with, rather than what is actually funny. I saw her filming herself using the toilet in her theme song. I didn't like that. After a couple of equally nasty "gags", during the show itself, I changed the channel.

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It is explained by the queen bee syndrome
Posted by: Iconoclast421 on Feb 6, 2007 10:44 AM   
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Everyone probably realizes that most of us are threatened by extraordinary women. I'll bet those were the ones that were burned at the stake centuries ago! sadly...

I postulate that it is an evolutionary defense mechanism

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Don't see it.
Posted by: ABetterFuture on Feb 6, 2007 10:58 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Tina Fey (from the SNL days, anyway) is incredibly funny, and she has a great breadth of humorous talent--from satire, to patronizing, to biting, to simply jovial. Don't know much about Silverman--who can afford cable these days, and how many folks who are working hard enough to afford it have the time to watch it...and how many would bother?
I did see Silverman's thing on global warming over the 'net via Alternet, and it wasn't what I'd call funny, but I assume she's got some funny stuff out there somewhere, else she wouldn't have her own show.

I've seen lots of female comedians I genuinely liked hearing, for various reasons--all of which ended with "pretty funny stuff". I don't care for George Carlin-type humor, though, and I know good deal of folks who feel the same way, so maybe this is just a symptom of folks getting tired of humor that derives mainly from shock value.

I mean, if you're going to be mean and nasty during a routine, you have to play to a certain audience. Perhaps that particular demographic--the one that appreciates mean and nasty humor--is less turned on by a female behind the mic?

P'raps that's not such a bad thing, provided "aggressively funny" is really a code word for mean and nasty.

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it's a matter of taste & audience & opportunity
Posted by: anniedine on Feb 6, 2007 11:06 AM   
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The point isn't whether women can be funny or not. They do it all the time.

The point is not whether women can be great athletes or not. There are plenty of them.

The question is, why do more men and women tend to want to watch male comics and male athletes? Why do most men and women believe that there's something magically better about male comics and male athletes?

Same old answer: because that's what men, women, boys, and girls see to an overwhelming degree from cradle to grave because the people making the decisions about who goes on a stage, a television or movie screen, and a court or a field are MEN who like to see themselves and their ideas about the world reflected back to them.

This is not rocket science. It's a matter of taste and experience – more and more female comics are "making it" and YOUR personal taste really doesn't hold any water, only whether the person works as a comic and has found an audience. More exposure to women comics and women athletes = bigger audiences for both. Plain. Simple.

And why HAVE an article on female comics and not name many of the ones who have made it to the degree that we know their names? Ellen, Elayne Boosler, Rosie, Margaret Cho, Paula Poundstone, Lily Tomlin (and her writer Jane), Rosanne, Gracie Allen, Gilda Radner, Brett Butler, Phyllis Diller, etc., etc. And that's just the stand-up comics. Make a list of all the women who have delivered funny lines in sitcoms and movies and you expand the list by an order of magnitude.

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It's true
Posted by: MrAllen on Feb 6, 2007 11:19 AM   
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Some men (John Belushi was one) think that women can't be funny.That's their problem.
I think that men who have a problem with funny women,have a problem with women.

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Patriarchy is funny...
Posted by: redbrownandblueparty on Feb 6, 2007 11:22 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...to a woman of wit. Imagine a bearded old man sitting on a cloud ruling his harem with ropetie necked talking heads. It's funny when penile taboos are pricked and deflated. Men are the weaker in the head sex, and the reason that there are not more funny female comics is their fear of men's retaliation, except in small female safe zones. Court fools are tolerated by the boys' club only to a certain degree, and certainly not in the larger culture with real issues like Woman Power. When women cross the PC line, they are eliminated or marginalized. Believe it or not, there are real victims, and women and children have been and are THE chief victims (other than the Earth herself). Comedy and tragedy have the same root. The simple truth is taboo for most men and macho women. Men are the naturally (not muscular) weaker sex which is why they have to compensate with artificial power. If you're man enough, you can laugh at yourself, and take it like a man when women point it out. If not, you become brutal and ugly if you have patriarchic power, or you beome a clever imposter poster if you don't. Politics is funny, almost as funny as religion and sex. The politics going on here is hilarious. Guess what? Shakespeare was a woman using a man's name and body. Do you think a woman of that wit would have been tolerated at that time and place? OK, maybe Shakespeare was a woman in a man's body, but isn't that the point, we're all women in male and female bodies. Hey, sex is like food--de gustibus non disputanda, concerning taste there is no dispute. My main course taste preference is for women (men are dessert or light table talk). Read that as a SSism if you will. It separates boys from men as well as girls from women. Relax. Life is a comedy club, not a patriotic pub.

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Are Women Allow to be Funny.
Posted by: funny4food on Feb 6, 2007 11:53 AM   
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If they allow themselves to be funny! Anyone can be funny! I'm a comedian. Male. There are many very funny women. Many of them are way funnier than some of the famous funny men, to me. There are unknown men, way funnier than the famous funny men and women, like me. Seriously! haha.

Can a woman gererate the fan support that Dave Chappelle or Dane Cook has? YES!
Does it matter what she looks like? Hell No!
Do I think Women can and are as funny as men? Yes, I've seen it!
Find Cocoa Brown, Susan Rice or Debbie Wooten!

It is more about funny longevity, she was did a stand-up on routine on "Late Night with Conan O'Brien" (1993). 14 years ago.

When did she start?

My guess is the average time a comedian has been performing in clubs before getting a chance at "Late Night with Conan O'Brien", is almost 10 years in not more. I guess Sarah Silverman did it in less time.

Keep supporting live standup comedy.
Travis Simmons
Comedian & Human Being

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Maven
Posted by: maven on Feb 6, 2007 12:36 PM   
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While Lorne Michaels of SNL did bring women into his sketch ensemble from the beginning, (as opposed to Monty Python and the Kids in the Hall) there has never ever been an equal count of men and women at SNL--note the current cast at 8 men to 3 women.
Since he bragged and used the word 'incredibly' I thought it was worth mentioning. I know I have noticed it for the last 30+ years.

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» RE: Maven Posted by: DaBear
Sources?
Posted by: DaBear on Feb 6, 2007 12:42 PM   
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Do we really give a crap what Christopher Hitchens has to say anymore? And on comedy, no less?

I watched Sarah's bits and it seemed fine. Some stuff was making me roll on the floor, others not so much.

I like comedy that's out of control, dark, flippant, done by misfits and scum of the earth like myself. But it's a subjective thing, like any other art form. So, seriously, Christopher Hitchens?! WTF?!

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» RE: Sources? Posted by: babs
maybe it's something else
Posted by: lawstudent08 on Feb 6, 2007 12:46 PM   
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I am a radical feminist and I do believe in some sort of solidarity among women. But Sarah Silverman is just obnoxious. Her routine is motivated by the assumption that people would rather be shocked than amused. She shocks purely to shock. We should focus on the real funny comedians. Margaret Cho has one of the funniest stand-up acts I've ever seen. So do Lisa Lampanelli, Ellen DeGeneres, Paula Poundstone, Monique, and Sommore (apologies if I misspelled names). There are many female comedians who are truly pee-your-pants funny, but Silverman is merely lame.

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» RE: maybe it's something else Posted by: domenico234
» RE: maybe it's something else Posted by: Aussie Kim
Funny Gals Abound
Posted by: BettynotWilma on Feb 6, 2007 1:03 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
No doubt about ... female comedians past and present keep me in stitches. Its all a matter of style, delivery..physical presentation. Some are "stand-ups"- some are scripted via movies, and some have broken barriers in a variety of media:
Lucille Ball, Carol Brunette, Whoopie Goldberg, Gilda Radner, Wanda Sykes, Mo'Nique ,Kate Hepburn, Judy Holliday (see Born Yesterday), Marilyn Monroe, Lilly Tomlin, Moms Mabley. If you have a gift for humor..use it-share it..you don't need permission.

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Absolutely Insane
Posted by: newwestern on Feb 6, 2007 1:28 PM   
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I would date anyone of these "aggressive, threatening" women in a heartbeat - Sarah Silverman, Tina Fey, Lucille Ball, sexy, sexy, sexy. What in the hell is wrong with my fellow heterosexual men? Granted, some might not agree with the views expressed in the humor, but just to have such a powerful sense of humor? That's the cream of the crop, not the "threat."

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» RE: Absolutely Insane Posted by: domenico234
The Humor Culture
Posted by: Mamacita on Feb 6, 2007 1:37 PM   
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I write humor. I've taken classes and improv with men, and know some people in the business, in sitcoms and standup. It's a male dominated business, a night business, a small, network, too. Of the five shows nominated for the prime time Emmy's last year (Conan, Letterman, Colbert, Daily, Maher) only five women writers out of 69. Two things: men have more confidence, usually and get out there more. Men like women to laugh at their jokes but it takes a self-confident man to like a funny woman (see Psychology Today research). Also, a lot of comedians (not all!) are awkward around women, a little immmature. Being funny was a way of getting attention. They're hard to approach and there's not a lot of trust that you can all hang out together. Humor is competitive sometimes, too, men will compete with you with this, and this makes women uncomfortable. Men are just more naturally comfortable with competition but not necessarily competing with women. Assertive men have a natural "in." The network is small to begin with. Of course women are funny, and why hasn't anyone mentioned Chelsea Handler, btw? It's not as it women can hold every other position in the country and can't land a punch line. Hitchins is just poking women where he knows it hurts, he's not funny. His article quotes no comdians, male or female. It does quote Rudyard Kipling for some reason...weird... This just generates sales for Vanity Fair. You should read his equally ridiculoous July 2006 piece on blow jobs.

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» RE: The Humor Culture Posted by: luckykaruba
Its just the way it is..and its not necessarily gender specific
Posted by: may261989 on Feb 6, 2007 2:09 PM   
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As a comedy writer myself I can tell you that in general attractive people are not funny. Or at least they are not viewed as being funny by the public.
The whole point of being a comedian is being able to wear your frailties on your sleeve and the audience will empathise.
Nobody wants to see an attractive funny person ( whether they be male or female )up on stage. You want to be able to laugh with and at the comedian, not wish you were that person yourself . That type of worship is for musicians and actors, comedians are a different breed.
I have seen an ex Big Brother contestant do a cracking comedy set at the Comedy Store here in Sydney, she bombed big time, she was beautiful and nobody could relate to her. I laughed and maybe a few others, but your average punter wont, they see a beautiful girl with no faults, and they dont find it funny.
Its just the way it is.

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Funny
Posted by: domenico234 on Feb 6, 2007 3:31 PM   
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OK, Let me start out by saying that I not only have not read any of the comments re: your artice. but that I have not read the article itself. If that makes me appear to be biased that is the precise opposite of my intentions.

Now hear this: Women, funny or not? Well, Roseann Barr happens to be my very favorite comedian ever, & as far as I know she happens to be a woman.

I saw Sarah Silverman's name once or twice as I hurtled through the posts to get to where I could leave a message. OK, like anyone gives a fat damn about my opiniion, here it is: Silverman is NOT funny. She strikes me much as little boys did when I was in the early grades, who thought farting was funny. Farting is NOT funny unless your timing is absolutely perfect. SS's timing is not even "timing." She just thinks whatever she does is funny. She's wrong.

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I don't find Sarah Silverman funny
Posted by: allthingslucid on Feb 6, 2007 3:32 PM   
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And that's the reason why I don't watch or listen to Sarah Silverman. I saw Jesus is Magic and just didn't find it that funny. I also don't think she's so attractive either.

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Sorry, but
Posted by: irenicus on Feb 6, 2007 3:53 PM   
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90 per cent of female comedians aren't funny. But then 90 per cent of male comedians aren't funny - I'd include Drew Carey in that 90 per cent. But when it comes to being realllllly funny - well, Larry David, I'm sorry to say, has a penis.

You see, you're also forgetting that most men (and women going by articles like this) are uncomfortable to laugh at women. Look at TV shows and commercials, most of the time men are portrayed as the idiots and it's funny. If women are portrayed as idiots with bowling balls hitting their heads - well then it seems more abusive than funny, and so it should.

Men and women are different. Have different social roles for natural reasons, and some people should just get over it. Women should learn to love and have confidence in their natural roles, not strive to be men. Sheesh!

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» RE: Sorry, but Posted by: irenicus
» RE: Sorry, but Posted by: luckykaruba
» RE: Sorry, but Posted by: irenicus
» RE: Sorry, but Posted by: bluetoaster
» RE: Yeah, sorry is right . . . Posted by: irenicus
» RE: Yeah, sorry is right . . . Posted by: irenicus
» RE: Yeah, sorry is right . . . Posted by: luckykaruba
» RE: Yeah, sorry is right . . . Posted by: irenicus
» RE: Yeah, sorry is right . . . Posted by: MartianBachelor
» RE: Yeah, sorry is right . . . Posted by: irenicus
» RE: Yeah, sorry is right . . . Posted by: irenicus
» RE: Yeah, sorry is right . . . Posted by: luckykaruba
» RE: Yeah, sorry is right . . . Posted by: irenicus
» RE: Yeah, sorry is right . . . Posted by: luckykaruba
Silverman funny? NOT
Posted by: domenico234 on Feb 6, 2007 4:06 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
OK, here's the deal. I do not intend to get embroiled in the argument of whether or not women can be funny! Allow me to point to Roseann Barr.

Men can be funny, as well. Funniness is not a matter of sex: God does not say, Well OK, this is going to be a gril kid, so knock out any of the funny in her. It is likely true that women are more compassionate, but I can't find it on EBay or Wici anywhere than says compassion equals not funny.

If there is ANYONE ON THIS PLANET OR ANY OTHER PLANET KNOWN TO OUR SPECIES THAT CAN EQUAL ROSEANN BARR FOR FUNNY I WANT TO KNOW ABOUT IT! She has absolutely redefined the word "funny." OK, like my comment or don't. It's my comment & I stick by it.

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» RE: Silverman funny? NOT Posted by: bluetoaster
This is ridiculous
Posted by: Topaz on Feb 6, 2007 5:25 PM   
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I don't think most people care what gender a comedian is. Funny is funny. As a guy, I don't find funny women intimidating. In fact, I'd prefer a GF who will be a clown with me. A partner in crime, if you will. This is just a case of feminists digging as deep into their asses as they can and pull something out to bitch about. This isn't 1975. Women have every equality they wanted and then some. I guess they're just as big of sore winners as they are sore losers.

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Friends vs Seinfeld
Posted by: irenicus on Feb 6, 2007 7:41 PM   
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I'm a guy, I find Seinfeld funnier than Friends. Most of my guy friends find Seinfeld funnier. Most girls I know prefer Friends. Conclusion: Men and women have different senses of humour. Stop seeking approval from men for your comedy and just go do it.

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» RE: Friends vs Seinfeld Posted by: morticia
» RE: Friends vs Seinfeld Posted by: carcinoid112
Hmm...
Posted by: Logic's Edge on Feb 6, 2007 8:15 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's true that if I see an "aggressively" funny woman up on stage, I'll laugh at her jokes but I won't be making plans to date her, if that is what the author means.

If she can tear into everything and everyone so effectively, what is private life going to be like with her? Especially given the stresses of that sort of career.

I'd rather not have to spend my time defending myself against someone so adept with a barbed tongue.

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In the meantime, Afghan Parliament Grants Immunity To War Criminals.
Posted by: maxpayne on Feb 6, 2007 8:27 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
KABUL, February 1, 2007 (RFE/RL) -- Afghanistan's parliament has granted immunity to all Afghans involved in the country's conflicts during the last quarter century despite calls by human rights groups for war crimes trials, RFE/RL's Radio Free Afghanistan reports.


The immunity is part of a national stability plan that says that "all those political and belligerent sides who were involved one way or the other during the 2 1/2 decades of war will not be prosecuted legally and judicially."

Both critics and supporters of the move say it covers fugitive Taliban leader Mullah Mohammad Omar and former prime minister Gulbuddin Hekmatyar -- who now heads his own militant group.

Mohammad Mohaqeq -- a former mujahedin leader and one of the key legislators behind the amnesty -- told RFE/RL's Radio Free Afghanistan today that it is an attempt to bring peace and reconciliation to Afghan society.

"This was approved [on January 31] with an absolute majority of votes," said Mohaqeq, who finished third among 18 names on the Afghan presidential ballot in 2004. "It mainly says that all of those who were involved in the 2 1/2 decades of war, should [work] together and join the national reconciliation."

But human rights groups say bringing war criminals to justice -- including some members of parliament and senior government officials -- is vital for peace.

The stability plan passed by legislators dismisses a Human Rights Watch report chronicling past abuses by senior public figures as "inaccurate" and "baseless" and the result of "malicious intentions."

Afghan independent Tolo Television quoted Kabul lawmaker Abbas Nuyan questioning the legislature's authority to extend such an amnesty. "You do not have the right," he said, adding that "the rights of hundreds of thousands of people have been violated in Afghanistan."

(with additional reporting by Reuters and Tolo Television)


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» Besides... Posted by: Aussie Kim
Nary A Mention of Women of Color
Posted by: stagolee on Feb 6, 2007 9:12 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Many women of color / comedians have already blazed this path and prevailed. Odd that the author couldn't find the space for a few sentences to pay them respects for their groundbreaking.

Typical. And not very freaking funny at all.

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HUH?
Posted by: kcampbell on Feb 7, 2007 7:48 AM   
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Middle Aged Women who grew up in the 80's or 90's.....okay, first of all I never figured out who was generation X and now some extremely qualified, I'm sure, person says that because I grew up in the 90's I'm old!!!! If you didn't "grow up" in the 90's you wouldn't be able to type!

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Poop jokes, etc.
Posted by: kcampbell on Feb 7, 2007 7:59 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Um, I really want to like Sarah Silverman but, you know what? Uh, uh. Ain't gonna happen. If I say poop four times, does it make me funny? If I make jokes about rape, does that make me funny? I don't think so. Saying vagina doesn't make me funny. Why? I dunno. It just doesn't. If there was humor in most of what she said, I'm pretty confident that I would notice. Nuff said...she just ain't funny, she's just crude. Just like all of us that are sick of the PC BS. (But it still ain't funny.)

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» RE: Poop jokes, etc. Posted by: JoshuaLudd
if you want to see funny
Posted by: robmikejas on Feb 7, 2007 9:39 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
see Stephanie Weir on MAD TV. She is one brilliant, funny woman.

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» RE: if you want to see funny Posted by: morticia
Huh?
Posted by: VagusDoc on Feb 7, 2007 11:35 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is a weird piece, mainly because Sarah Silverman is the lead off into a discussion of why comedy is still a man's world. Well if they want her held up to the same standards as guys, then I'm just gonna say that she just isn't that funny.

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The Article...
Posted by: MyLeftFoot on Feb 7, 2007 12:27 PM   
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was written by a woman and it's pretty funny....

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I always found women like this very sexy...
Posted by: Ghoulman on Feb 7, 2007 2:27 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
... and Sarah Silverman is a hoot, Jesus is Magic was terrific.

I recall how envious may were of the American Woman in the first half of the 20th Century. Hepburn, Bacall, and the women of decades past. Vibrant flapper girls, those-in-your-face american woman abroad, just as they were shown in those old movies.

My, times have changed?

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» And speaking of the flappers... Posted by: BazookaTooth
Huh?
Posted by: opeluboy on Feb 7, 2007 2:55 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Seems to me that the author is probably insane. In my experience, audiences in comedy clubs and those viewing shows on TV are made up of both men and women, not just men. So why is this article about whether men will accept women comics? Seems their success rests on the female audience members equally.

Comedy is a matter of taste. There are plenty of great women comics. There are plenty that stink. Same goes for the men in that profession.

As for Silverman, I think it is extremely daring that a Jewish woman would consider comedy as a career and we should all admire her bravery for a groundbreaking foray into that exclusively gentile world. Talk about pioneers!

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Truth and the Court Jester
Posted by: Aussie Kim on Feb 7, 2007 3:14 PM   
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Court Jesters used to be the only ones who could speak the truth and the way they said it meant they didn't get punished or even killed for speaking the truth.

Comedy is so often the truth made amusing or even palatable. I wonder if some people simply can't handle women speaking the truth as they see it?

(And yes, some women aren't that funny, however others are so hilarious it makes me wish I had one of those NASA nappies...)

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This article is spot on ...
Posted by: stitchwitched on Feb 7, 2007 3:22 PM   
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Many men don't like women they can't ignore. A woman who is "loud" in some way, a woman who WON'T be ignored, is very threatening to that type of man.

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» RE: This article is spot on ... Posted by: Logic's Edge
» RE: This article is spot on ... Posted by: stitchwitched
» RE: This article is spot on ... Posted by: Logic's Edge
» RE: This article is spot on ... Posted by: bluetoaster
» RE: This article is spot on ... Posted by: stitchwitched
» RE: This article is spot on ... Posted by: bluetoaster
And Once Again, It's All About White Women
Posted by: Kym525 on Feb 7, 2007 5:29 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This entire article would make more sense if it actually talked about ALL women comedians, rather than just this endless one-size-supposedly-fits-all mentality that seems part and parcel of both liberal and conservative thinking.

So what about black women comedians like Queen Latifah, Mo'Nique, the late Nell Carter, Isobel Sanford, Debra Williams and others? Margaret Cho who just happens to be asian? Seems to me these strong and savvy women are allowed to be funny because well - THEY ARE. Sarah Silverman would be funny if for one thing, she didn't whine incesantly about things that are only important to HER; and two, if her jokes were actually FUNNY. Sorry folks but a dirty mouth doesn't make one a comedian. It does make one want to toss a pack of Orbit gum her way though.

The women I've mentioned have claimed the right to be funny and are forging new paths in spite of all the pitfalls in front of them. Then again perhaps because these are minority women no one pays any attention to them and so they're rendered "invisible". Minorities are ALWAYS invisible until we do something wrong.

Like that dude from 'Grey's Anatomy'. (What an idiot).

I've seen Mo'Nique live and her audience was evenly split between men and women and yes, she's raunchy at times but I didn't see black men getting all bent out of shape. In fact they were laughing just as hard as their female counterparts. So, what does that say about white guys? You guys can't handle a woman who can swear better than you and doesn't blush at the word "d*ck" or "p*ssy" while laughing about how crazy we all are?

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» Don't forget Wanda Sykes... Posted by: Durga_is_my_homey
» ...or Deborah Wilson.... Posted by: morticia
Only in America
Posted by: pomes on Feb 8, 2007 3:18 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Only in America can a man work 8+ hours a day to provide for a woman and the WOMAN is percieved as the slave.

Feminists have utterly ruined marriage by turning it into an institution to further enslave men and give the state control over his every dime and every movement. Now women can leave their men and still expect him to provide for her. I would advise against any man getting married in this fucked up society. Let women fend for themselves -- they've really, really earned it.

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» RE: Only in America - Indeed! Posted by: Durga_is_my_homey
selma goldberg
Posted by: selma on Feb 8, 2007 3:37 PM   
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Potty mouth is unattractive in males as well as females. I will not watch either. What has happened to real humor?

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re
Posted by: Topaz on Feb 8, 2007 3:48 PM   
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Damn skippy! And if the man misses one payment then he's a deadbeat. It's just take, take, take. Marriage is not worth it. She'll end up cheating and then taking half your shit. My god, women get out of everything. All they need to do is cry and they'll get out of tickets, court, etc.

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It's all about being an individual
Posted by: lisebrouillette on Feb 8, 2007 7:55 PM   
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As a 55 years old woman, it has been my experience that it's not so much being funny, independent, professional or whatever that is forbidden to women as much as being human. Women are expected to be generic, as if they were all molded from the factory-made model. Any deviation from the "norm" is viewed as the root of all evil. Being funny is outside of this norm, since we're expected to look, act and think all pretty much the same.

We should get our priorities straight, claims one Seamus? This is going to come as a surprise to you, but clipping women in the parts to make them frigidly all the same is nothing more but "making adjustments" so that what started as human ends up becoming generic.

Finding funny women threatening is rooted in the same insecurity that makes sexual women threatening - or independent, or knowledgeable, or vocal, or angry women - whatever. All forms of oppression of women go back to that in the end - it always does.

Lise

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Top commedy acts: Bush, Hilary, Edwards, the entire GOP
Posted by: YogiBear on Feb 8, 2007 8:42 PM   
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Rosanne Barr was my favorite comic until she got the show. Then it became one of my favorite shows. I loved the Ellen show until she came out. Not because she was gay -- I have gay family members, whom I love -- but because suddenly, every joke ended with "because I'm gay."

I still think she's funny; I think she's recovered from that everything is a gay joke impulse.

Sarah Silverman was outrageously hilarious in The Aristocrats, and I couldn't possibly imagine her cutting down her language to make it TV acceptable, which is why I haven't bothered to watch the show yet.

These days I don't catch much comedy -- paying attention to the political news is about as much dark comedy as I can take.

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The Fact Is
Posted by: TheMagicHour on Feb 9, 2007 7:01 AM   
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She's just not funny.

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NBC (G.E. -'We bring good things to life' ) = Military industrial complex
Posted by: Deport The Minutemen on Feb 10, 2007 10:50 AM   
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In other news:

http://www.thefourreasons.org/victimsofwar.htm

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The truth of the matter
Posted by: GB718 on Feb 13, 2007 10:59 AM   
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It seems amazing to me that an article on women being funny leaves out Ellen, who is currently one of the most successful comedians there is (regardless of gender). She not only has a very successful talk show, but is also asked to host award show after award show. Now mind you, maybe she doesnt count because shes not "pretty". While Sarah Silverman's whole shtick is that she is a pretty woman who says vulgar things, but that in itself is not enough to make someone funny.

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female comics
Posted by: brainata on Feb 28, 2007 1:54 PM   
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How about we first find a funy female comic then we print articles that determine if women are allowed to be funny.

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