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Is There A Kosher Way to Criticize the Israel Lobby?

By Matthew Yglesias, The American Prospect. Posted January 26, 2007.


Wes Clark is the latest to be caught up in the rigged rules for discussing Israel-related issues in America.

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This article is reprinted from the American Prospect.

Retired General Wesley Clark is, like me, concerned that the Bush administration is going to launch a war with Iran. Arianna Huffington spoke to him in early January and asked why he was so worried the administration was headed in this direction. According to Huffington's January 4 recounting of Clark's thoughts, he said this: "You just have to read what's in the Israeli press. The Jewish community is divided but there is so much pressure being channeled from the New York money people to the office seekers."

This, of course, is true. I'm Jewish and I don't think the United States should bomb Iran, but Thursday night I was talking to a Jewish friend and she does think the United States should bomb Iran. The Jewish community, in short, is divided on the issue. It's also true that most major American Jewish organizations cater to the views of extremely wealthy major donors whose political views are well to the right of the bulk of American Jews, one of the most liberal ethnic groups in the country. Furthermore, it's true that major Jewish organizations are trying to push the country into war. And, last, it's true that if you read the Israeli press you'll see that right-wing Israeli politicians are anticipating a military confrontation with Iran. (For example, here's an article about the timing of the selection of a new top dog in the Israeli Defense Forces; Benjamin Netanyahu is quoted as saying that the new leader "will have to straighten the army out, rebuild Israel's deterrence and prepare the defenses against threats, first and foremost, against Iran.")

Everything Clark said, in short, is true. What's more, everybody knows it's true. The worst that can truthfully be said about Clark is that he expressed himself in a slightly odd way. This, it seems clear, he did because it's a sensitive issue and he worried that if he spoke plainly he'd be accused of trafficking in anti-Semitism. So he spoke unclearly and, for his trouble, got ... accused of trafficking in anti-Semitism.

James Taranto, who writes the hack "Best of the Web" column for the online version of The Wall Street Journal's hack editorial page, likened Clark's views on this to the notorious anti-Semitic forgery The Protocols of the Elders of Zion. Scott Johnson of the influential and moronic right-wing Power Line blog argued that "Clark's comments are not simply 'anti-Israel,'" and asked "[i]s it a only a matter only of parochial concern to American Jews that they are now to be stigmatized without consequence in the traditional disgusting terms -- terms that used to result in eviction from the precincts of polite society -- by a major figure in the Democratic Party?"

Needless to say, Clark did not stigmatize American Jews. Indeed, he went out of his way to note that the American Jewish community is divided on the issue. Michael Barone's sneering attack on Clark also managed, almost incidentally, to reveal Barone's own understanding that Clark's remarks are substantially correct. Barone observed that it's "interesting to see a Democratic presidential hopeful denounce 'the New York money people,' people whom Clark spent some time with in 2003-04."

And, indeed, it is interesting, for demonstrating the bizarre rules of the road in discussing America's Israel policy. If you're offering commentary that's supportive of America's soi-disant "pro-Israel" forces, as Barone was, it's considered perfectly acceptable to note, albeit elliptically, that said forces are influential in the Democratic Party in part because they contribute large sums of money to Democratic politicians who are willing to toe the line. If, by contrast, one observes this fact by way of criticizing the influence of "pro-Israel" forces, you're denounced as an anti-Semite.

Needless to say, the increasingly ridiculous Abe Foxman, head of the Anti-Defamation League, was swiftly located in order to ply his trademark tactic of accusing people of anti-Semitism that he knows perfectly well aren't anti-Semites. As The Jewish Week reported, "The ADL leader told Clark that he had 'bought into conspiratorial bigotry' that increasingly sees Israel, Jews and American Jewish organizations as the driving force behind U.S. involvement in Iraq and Iran." What's more, "Foxman said Clark’s comments are particularly worrisome because of the context, coming in the wake of," among other things, "a book by former U.N. weapons inspector Scott Ritter, who accused Israel of pushing for war with Iran."

The context, I would say, is worrisome. "Israel" is not a unitary actor, but clearly some Israelis are pushing for war with Iran. More to the point, many American Jewish organizations are pushing for war with Iran. And before Foxman comes to lock me up, he might want to check out his own outfit's website, complete with a section on "The Iranian Threat." Meanwhile, over on AIPAC's site we can learn about the "escalating threat" from Iran. A group called The Israel Project has an Iran Press Kit page, linking only to alarmist takes on the Iranian nuclear issue and to a hawks-only set of expert sources. (Shockingly, none of these organizations are especially concerned that Israel won't join the Non-Proliferation Treaty Framework.)

For another example, the Jewish Institute for National Security Affairs gave Senator John McCain its "Scoop" Jackson Award in December; in his remarks accepting the award, McCain argued that "[t]he path to future success for Israel will not be an easy one, and there will be a number of difficult issues. Foremost on many minds, is, of course, Iran." He characterized "Tehran’s continued pursuit of nuclear weapons" as "an unacceptable risk" -- language clearly designed to lay the groundwork for war.

With this last bit, we not only see the accuracy of Clark's remark, but, once again, the stunning hypocrisy of the anti-anti-Semitism brigades. It's clear that McCain, just like Clark, sees American Jewish organizations as key players in the Iran-hawk movement in the United States, and also that he sees concern for Israeli security as motivating those groups. Nobody, however, is going to label McCain a Jew-hating conspiracy theorist -- because, of course, McCain wants to help these groups push the United States into a military confrontation with Iran. Thus, McCain gets an award, and Clark gets called an anti-Semite.

Since Clark would like to have a future in the politics game, he ended up backing down from his remarks, explaining he didn't mean what he said. Mission accomplished for those who smeared him. But would I ever suggest that Democrats have been unduly timid on the Iran issue because they fear crossing powerful "pro-Israel" institutions? Never. Only anti-Semites think stuff like that.

Copyright © 2007 by The American Prospect, Inc. This article may not be resold, reprinted, or redistributed for compensation of any kind without prior written permission from the author. Direct questions about permissions to permissions@prospect.org.

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See more stories tagged with: iran, israel, anti-semitism, israel lobby, wesley clark

Matthew Yglesias is a Prospect staff writer.

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How about starting with separation of religion and state?
Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Jan 26, 2007 12:52 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's no secret that many power-mad right-wingers think that the basic notion of freedom of religion should be overturned, but the fact is that a healthy and just democratic government requires independent governmental and religious insitutions. Mention this to the right-wing Israelis and you'll be accused of denying Israel the right to exist - more meaningless polemics from religious idealogues.

To bad they've got all those nukes - which everyone knows about, but which their government still formally denies - but given that Bush and the Israelis are desperate to attack Iran over an alleged nuclear program, perhaps it's time for Israel to openly acknowledge that they've got over a hundred nukes, produced at their secret Dimona nuclear power facility? Come out of the closet, now...

Maybe they could aslo give up their lebensraum - manifest destiny policy of expansion into Palestinian areas as well - what do they call it? "Purification"? I suppose the Chinese are doing the same thing in Tibet - "Settling the Frontier".

It might be argued that the US is trying to do the same thing in Iraq, but we're just trying to steal the oil, not drive out the population and send in American settlers. Hurray for us! We're just bandits and raiders, not genocidal settlers (at least not any more - do they still teach kids that 'manifest destiny' nonsense in schools?).

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» Fear Posted by: alternetleslie
» RE: Fear Posted by: psychochurch
» That is just anti-semitic Posted by: brunowe
» RE: Fear Posted by: Douglas
» RE: Fear-Douglas Posted by: psychochurch
» This isn't a religious issue Posted by: chomsky
A few conclusions from this article
Posted by: colinmeister on Jan 26, 2007 4:01 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
1. The United States has the best government in the world - the finest money can buy!

2. When a country donates vast ammounts of money in aid to a foreign country, the doner country usually pulls the strings. In this case the recipient is pulling the strings.

3. The govenment of Israel regards the taxpayers of the USA as a bunch of dumb goys who are in place simply to finance the cause of zionist influence and expansion.

Call me an anti semite if you like, I don't care about labels. I am not an American, and I am not a German, and I was born after the second world war. It's time the Jews stopped whining about things which happened over 60 years ago and got a life!

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» RE: Good stuff Posted by: edsmith
Why Do We Allow Foreign Lobbyists, Anyway?
Posted by: midwestblue on Jan 26, 2007 4:17 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Isn't there something weird about the concept of foreign lobbying? Lobbying is about CITIZENS having the right to lobby Congress, not foreign governments .

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Newspeak - Doublethink
Posted by: laoma on Jan 26, 2007 4:23 AM   
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Using 'anti-semite' is to endorse Zionist Newspeak. The only way to escape from Doublethink is to resist the usage daily and any time that it occurs. Certainly, there are hordes of primitive minds and miscreants who are anti-Jewish, however, simply using the attribute 'Jew' is not sufficient. A cursory reading of public news in Hebrew available in Israel will verify that notable people around the world are labelled as Jew this, Jew that. Translating that usage into English does not make one anti-Jewish. For a predominately white, European-based community in the US to invoke 'Semite', is like the Afrikaaner to state that they are Bushmen.

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couldn't we all just...
Posted by: aislinnluv on Jan 26, 2007 4:28 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
figure out that disagreeing on a subject does not necessarily require that the parties involved are denigrating one another?

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otto
Posted by: otto on Jan 26, 2007 4:47 AM   
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Thank God for Jewish people like Matthew who show the rest of us that the Israeli lobby does not speak for the majority of Jewish people, and that many see injustices in Palestine and are opposed to war as a tactic.

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» RE: otto Posted by: Blabdy
It is Kosher
Posted by: PJT on Jan 26, 2007 5:15 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Jimmy Carter has done civilization a service by vectoring a great deal of Zionist vituperation through his recent book. Note that the story has lasted longer than 15 minutes. Carter is a very smart man, and he knew exactly what he was doing. As people of every rank state the obvious truth, the shopworn accusations of anti-Semitism become ever more absurd and meaningless. Truth will win in the end. First of all, forty percent of Israelis believe their country is doomed unless they change their ways. Way back in 1946, before the creation of Israel, Hannah Arendt noted that carving out a colonialist convection for Eastern Europeans in the Holy Land was a non-starter. If you read the Israeli newspapers you will find that things are much worse than they appear from over here. Corruption is so endemic to the political system that Hamas looks like the Boy Scouts of America in comparison. The average Israeli can see that the sacred memory of the Holocaust victims has been hijacked to justify the systematic destruction of Palestinian Arabs. It is Kosher to criticize the Zionists and the great majority of American Jews know this in their hearts. Shalom- PJT

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Let's stop calling it the 'Israel Lobby'
Posted by: ekwhite on Jan 26, 2007 5:33 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As General Clark pointed out, AIPAC and its ilk represent only one point of view in Israel. They are the Likud lobby, or the Neocon lobby. America needs a lobby representing opposing viewpoints in Israel.

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» Let's stop the 'Israel Lobby' Posted by: NoPCZone
like most anglo-americans ...
Posted by: jambro on Jan 26, 2007 5:36 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
like most anglo-americans, i'm ambivalent about jews, or for that matter muslims, although i can't stand holier-than-thou christians, or mormons knocking on my door. keep your religion to yourself, like at the dinner table don't talk religion or politics.

as for jews, some are religious jews, others not, but claim some bizarre ethnic identity. ok, no problem, but don't expect most americans to support a state of israel, which has no more right to exist than the palestinians, or maybe equally so. if we were all to embed ourselves in our past ethnicities, then we lose our american identity. why should a jewish-american be regarded differently from an italian-american or an afro-american?

but cutting to the quick! zionists must get off this anti-semite hype! most american jews are no more semites than irishmen. ok, a few are from yemen or morocco, and have mixed with arabs & other semites over centuries, but many are no more closer to semitic peoples than i am, unless you include language, and if they speak hebrew, then they are semitic by language.

so why does jewishness come from the mother? easy answer, jewish women have been raped by every army from babylon & pharonic egypt down to polish & greeks in WWII & had sex & offspring with non-jewish men ... so, at best, jews are historically half-jewish, half-mixed, so there is no such reality as a jewish "race".

anyway, its all hype, corrupt business & politics which get the rich richer & the rest of us poorer. finally, why is the world not calling for israel to pay for the damage they did in lebanon. oops, that might mean the usa should pay for the damage our rulers & their control over out military did in vietnam, or iraq, or afghanistan, or ... all the other hundreds of places the us military destroyed for us capitalism.

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Snake nest
Posted by: ng1944 on Jan 26, 2007 6:00 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Wall Street spinning the things.
This is the Snake nest.
And look at the Hillary,
she knows where the money is.

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It's Time to Separate Zionism from Judaism forever
Posted by: xbj on Jan 26, 2007 6:01 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's time to separate Zionism from Judaism forever. Zionism is a Political Imperialistic movement that says one people from another land can displace another, take their land, and when those people fight back for their land, use any Fascist tactic possible to "protect" the land they stole. It is also highly ANTI-JEWISH and has nothing to do with Judaism, either orthodox OR reformed. Also highly anti-Christian, and has nothing to do with true Pacifist Christianity as taught, lived and died by Jesus Christ.

It is ABUNDANTLY clear to EVERYONE on the ENTIRE EARTH by now, as well as to all involved parties and even to the Zionist War Pigs making bank off all the offense contracting and endless death and destruction including yes, even the "war" "against" "terrorism", that THESE TWO SONS OF ABRAHAM WILL NEVER BE ABLE TO LIVE IN PEACE TOGETHER, as long as one side steals land and treats the other side the way Hitler treated THEM. Shooting kids throwing rocks, running over young women with bulldozers, the list of WAR CRIMES goes ON and ON and ON. Chemical weapons. A planned nuclear attack on Iran, after masquerading as Iran and attacking an American or Canadian ship in the Gulf, killing all onboard. AND NOT FOR THE FIRST TIME.

While the VERY GOOD PEOPLE of Israel LONG FOR PEACE, and the very good Jewish people of America LONG FOR PEACE, the War Pigs will continue to USE ZIONISM to assure that PEACE WILL NEVER COME, ASSURING A CONSTANT ENDLESS GRAVY TRAIN RIDE for themselves and their worthless spawn.

When you can no longer defend a land WITHOUT BECOMING NAZI MONSTERS, IT IS TIME TO MOVE SOMEWHERE ELSE. ZION IS WHEREVER A JEW IS WITH G-D, NOT some bloodsoaked piece of dirt in the Mideast made Hell on earth by endless bloodshed. "Next year, in Israel" IS TALKING ABOUT ZION, in HEAVEN, not Palestine. 2000 years of tradition is just that, TRADITION. The sun does not rise and set on mere tradition.

If America has room for several million illegal Latinos, it has room for ALL OF ISRAEL.

It is time to undo the wrong done in 1948. It is time to love our enemies. It is time to, when someone demands our cloak, to GIVE THEM OUR SHIRT ALSO. It is time to WILLINGLY and JOYFULLY MOVE to the land of Freedom and Hope. Like so many before. Like most all would have done if anti-Jewish FDR and anti-Jewish Truman and anti-Jewish WASP America of 1948 would have ALLOWED IT.

It is time to UNDO ISRAEL. And get the hell OFF Mideast oil so AMERICA DOESN'T NEED A STRATEGIC OUTPOST in the Mideast.

Leave the Mideast to Allah and Islam. With the restoration of Palestine and the end of the OIL WAR in IRAQ and the BLACK OP POPPY (HEROIN) TRADE WAR in AFGHANISTAN AND THE US OUT OF THE MIDEAST FOREVER, ALL TRUE ISLAMIC TERRORISM WILL END.

Because they don't hate us for our freedom. BECAUSE THEY HATE US FOR TAKING THEIR FREEDOM. AND LAND. AND OIL. AND KILLING THEM FIRST. PRE-EMPTIVELY. And for making their lives and the lives of their children A LIVING HELL.

Get out NOW or kiss America good-bye. Because it is America that will take the fall for nuking Iran, NOT ISRAEL.

Israel AND Iran WILL SURVIVE.

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» Theft is a negotiation Posted by: eddie torres
» Sorry Douglas, no guilt here Posted by: eddie torres
» Mormons are NOT JEWS???? Posted by: poppop_schell
What's Lieberman's position?
Posted by: kevo on Jan 26, 2007 6:19 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is difficult to speak to the madness in the Middle East without commiting offense. Wesley Clark makes cogent points in his observations of this region. I was dropped from a "liberal" thread over at C&L because I suggested that the Honorable Senator Joe Lieberman may have a conflict of interest within the Middle East policy domain of our nation. I noted that I believe Sen. Lieberman holds a 100% connection of national interest between America and Israel. I then suggested that our national interests are not served when Israel commits aggression in the region, and interjected President Carter's recently applied term apartheid, and before you know it, my post disappeared. Oh well, so much for a breadth of understanding and argument on this matter. -Kevo

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Use their own tactics on them
Posted by: edsmith on Jan 26, 2007 6:21 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Accuse them of being anti-American, anti-Arab racists, ant-Islamic bigots. Ask the American zionists if their interests are for Israel or America; if they are Israeli agents or American citizens.
Ask Lou Dobbs on his own show why he dosen't criticize the Israel First Crowd and the Israel Lobby and the Israeli citizens who work in American government promoting Israels interests over American interests.
Call them anti-Semitic peace haters.

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the zionist dream
Posted by: donegill on Jan 26, 2007 6:22 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think Bill Clinton got close to the truth when he said that Israel could continue on its current path and it would continue to win military victories but "it will break your heart."

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» Bill's dream Posted by: edith
Thank you
Posted by: Dee1276 on Jan 26, 2007 6:23 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yglesisias is a brave and intelligent man. I wish he would run for office.

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No Goyim can criticise Jews.
Posted by: albrechtkrausse on Jan 26, 2007 6:28 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Just like no white person can criticise a black.
No straight can comment on gay issues.
No man can 'understand' women's causes.
No kaffir can comment on Islam.
oddly, anybody can comment on 'white' issues though- but that's due to the fact that whites are devils and have an historical blood-libel that ensures their guilt for eternity.

This is the trap that the crazed 'liberal' (used in the American way) groupthink has gotten us into.

The ADL, of course, gets one even better because of the "Holocaust" which, as a sacrement, cannot even be uttered by a goy and renders all debate, criticism, or dialogue impossible.

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Anti-Zionist ≠ Anti-Semitic
Posted by: NoPCZone on Jan 26, 2007 6:33 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Until it's agreed that one can oppose Israel without being accused of being anti-semitic, nobody can have an honest and open conversation about anything concerning Israel. Given Israel's position in the Middle East, that statement has serious implications.

First, the interests of any foreign nation, including Israel, should not have the sway and influence in US policy decision making. Israel has been given a pass for a very long time and it's time we spank the whiny kid that's grabbing at our pants leg and won't shut up.

We cannot afford to blindly be Israel's daddy any longer and sit by as if they were without guilt or blame for anything. There is no justification for the terrorist acts of some Palestinians, but many of the seeds of hatred were watered by US and Israeli policy. That needs to be publicly acknowledged.

Until we have an open and honest discussion of the Middle East without the heavy hand of the Pro-Israel lobby, America cannot come clean on the issue and there will be n peace. It's that necessary. We need to put Israel and the 'Israel right or wrong' crowd on a 12-step program.

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» RE: Anti-Zionist ≠ Anti-Semitic Posted by: Kitty Lady Oregon
I Agree With All Of The Above Posts
Posted by: hole11 on Jan 26, 2007 6:37 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Maybe not entirely in their words but I agree. We don't support the Vatican with loans and aid, why would we be there for Israel a religious state?

It is as if we are supporting Europe again with their massive influx to Israel with acclaimed jews. I don't care if they have a right to exist in the middle-east or Austria. Good for them that they got recognized by the United Nations.

But we have welfare laws in the US and it's time they got off the dole. Same goes for Europe.

Wasn't Liberia a colony of ours? Why don't they get the same support as Israel and Europe?

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No money, no conflict
Posted by: Cerberus on Jan 26, 2007 6:42 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Unfortunately the conflict between the Palestinians and Israel is fuelled by fundamentalist views, it is financed from outside by groups that hold fundamentalist views often extremist ones.

Unfortunately the majority of both the Palestinian and Jewish people seem to support either extreme Zionism or islamism.

The struggle in the Middle East will not stop until a majority in both populations have a majority for peace. Unfortunately the situation towards violence and extreme fundamentalism took a turn for the worse with the election of Hamas (Hamas has the physical extinction of Israel on its charter).

However as in the conflict in Northern Ireland it did not end until after 9/11 when the British government demanded that the US put IRA on the terrorist list i.e no fundraising could take place in the US. Many misguided and wealthy Irish Americans had supported the IRA and its terror actions both with substantial monies as well as lobbying for IRA. When the IRA got no more funds they were forced to come to the negotiating table and disarmament and peace ensued. It seems that many wealthy Jewish-Americans are as misguided in supporting extremist Zionist, settlers in occupied as was the Irish-Americans. However far worse is the Syrian and Iranian support of Hamas and Hezbollah. They support and aid direct terrorist activities and destabilises the whole of the Middle East.

However as being European and remember the so called anti-Zionist rhetoric from the far left during the 70’s, it was often pure anti-Semitism cloaked in anti-Zionism.

In Europe anti-Semitism has seen huge revival. Before 1990 it was the far right that held these views today it is the far left as well as islamists. It is an irony of life that political and religious extremist now have come to encompass the same hatred of the Jews and the Americans. The rhetoric as regards to Israel, US and the free market is the same as it has been during all of the 2000 century. The decadent and evil West, with its wealth and prosperity for all is seen as the foremost enemy. US is seen as the great Satan and Israel the little Satan.

Therefore I fully understand that the Jewish organisations are as prickly as pears but I do not like to see the opposite, which Clack was subjected to. I call it reverse anti-Semitism; any criticism of Israel is immediately stamped as anti-Semitism.

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Arabs are Semites too
Posted by: wawa on Jan 26, 2007 6:59 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As the grandaughter of a Polish Jew who has journeyed four times to the Occupied Palestinian Territories in the last year and a half and

Who has been speaking out for Human Rights and Justice as the only way to peace and security for Israelis

It does not bother me at all that I have been labeled by some as anti-Semitic;

Because it is just NOT true.

"Memoirs of a Nice Irish American Girl's Life in Occupied Territory" to be released Feb. 2007

http://www.wearewideawake.org/

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Wesley Clark
Posted by: boing007 on Jan 26, 2007 7:29 AM   
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Wesley Clark for President. Don't let them get you down. Speak your mind and strive for the truth at all times.

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phuk Israel
Posted by: BuckFush on Jan 26, 2007 7:39 AM   
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Being anti-israel is not the same as being anti-semite.

The US's support for the zionist state is creating generations of terrorists.

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» RE: phuk Israel Posted by: symcokid
» Demand our $150,000,000,000 back! Posted by: johndoraemi
Eat the Rich
Posted by: WitchyNy on Jan 26, 2007 7:50 AM   
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We had our own 'holocaust' here. The Native Americans. Why are we pouring all this money into Israel? Israel is nothing but a welfare state of America.

A young Jewish friend of mine went to vist Israel for the first time one summer. She came home horrified. She said Israel treats the Arabs the way America treats Native Americans.

Rachael Correy did it for me. We need to give money to our own Native Americans and stop pouring money into a fake country that has turned into a Jewish Nazi state.

I am so tired of the corrupt rich running everything. I don't care if they are Jews or not. And if we are going to feel historical guilt...let it be for our own Native Americans and Blacks.

America is getting sucked dry supporting Israel and this stupid oil war. Bush and co. cares nothing for America. His fellow countrymen are the International Bankers and Industralists.

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Excellent Matt
Posted by: littlebozo on Jan 26, 2007 8:10 AM   
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Well done, Matt. Of course that's par for you.
Anthony Zinni was labeled an anti Semite and a traitor for standing up to the neocons in 2003. Wes Clark's father is buried under a Star of David. However, Wes Clark didn't find out about his Jewish heritage until he reached adulthood.
Gen. Clark's dad passed when he was young, I believe when he was three - ( it traumatized the young Clark for several years, and affected his speech, I believe he was seven when he recovered ) and his mom ( who was not Jewish ) in an effort to protect him from an active KKK in the area, since they had moved to Little Rock from Chicago. Gen Clark found out when a cousin in England contacted him when he was attending Oxford on his Rhodes. Wes is deeply proud of his Jewish heritage but since it is a matrilineal line, he is not considered Jewish. Certainly his detractors have been quick to point that out.
A simple question that requires no anwer.
Who benefits from the US attacking Iran?
I also strongly believe that the citizens of Israel should not be judged by the actions of their leaders no more than the US or Iran should.
Again Mr Yglesias, thank you for work - past, present and future. You are an American treasure, sir.

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Put Your $$ Where Your Mouth Is! Or Is That The Problem?
Posted by: JCR on Jan 26, 2007 9:04 AM   
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I don't know where Israel stands on allowing foreign born Jews and Israeli emigres to enter into military service, but I think it's time all those conflicted Jews who find themselves leaning towards bombing Iran heed the call of the motherland, pack up, enlist and take part in military actions against Iran - including any poorly designed and executed occupation schemes this or the Israeli administration may concoct.

In addition, the next Israeli incursion into Lebanon seems tailor-made for all you wealthy, tough talking Zionist Jews here in America; go show your mettle in armed conflict. Patrols of the Gaza Strip anyone? Until such time as you are willing to put your money, or more to the point - your asses, where your mouth is, please don't forget that you are Americans above all and if you can't appreciate that we are tired of taking flak for Israeli actions, I suggest the option above.

Those of us who don't share your dreams of a Middle East dominated Israel and grow increasingly frustrated with watching Israel taint the American political landscape are quickly losing patience with this nonsense. When the money train finally grinds to a halt, you will be one very small nut left in the jaws of an angry, populous nutcracker and without a friend in the world. Scary place to be.

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Show REAL TRUTH = DEATH & DESTRUCTION
Posted by: RussGirl on Jan 26, 2007 9:13 AM   
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A general once remarked:
"The reason we don't show the true cost of War, the blood and guts, the REALITY ---- is that once people see it - and understand - THERE WOULD BE NO WAR!

It appears too easy for people to say "Bomb this or bomb that" - with NO COMPREHENSION of what that really means.

We have no FREE press - We MUST get the FAIRNESS DOCTRINE back.
We must STOP THIS MADNESS!
--
"There is no such thing as an achieved liberty: like electricity, there can be no substantial storage and it must be generated as it is enjoyed, or the lights to out."

Justice Robert H. Jackson (1892-1954), U. S. Supreme Court Justice Source: American Bar Association Journal, 1953

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Israel is NOT a country Part I
Posted by: Carl Street on Jan 26, 2007 9:44 AM   
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First, a little history. Following WWII, the victorious powers attempted to reestablish their pre-war colonial patterns. Among the first to attempt this was France who tried it in both French Indo-China (Viet Nam) and French Algeria. However, WWII had left a legacy of weapons caches; huge quantities of arms both indigenous and available in post war arms markets. More importantly, their haste to draft native peoples as cannon fodder had created a large cadre of battle-hardened, experienced and bloodied troops who knew how to use those weapons and, had been trained in sabotage and guerilla operations, etc.
Observing the fiascos created by French and British attempts to reestablish their influence in the Far East, India and North Africa, the USA recognized that any attempt to colonialize the Middle East was probably doomed to failure and/or at least result in such protracted and expensive military operations as to render it impractical. So they hit upon a diabolically clever scheme to colonize by proxy by creating the "state" of Israel.
This solved a number of problems for the USA...
1. We had large quantities of DP's (displaced persons) in Europe following WWII and had already suffered a political disaster in Operation Keel Haul of trying to forcibly "repatriate" (dump) them on the East after WWII so we needed an alternative "dumping ground" for these largely undocumented refugees -- all we had to do was declare them "jews" -- if you look at their real ethnicity you would be amazed at who suddenly became "jewish". This last was especially true because the USA made all kinds of promises of land, prosperity (land flowing with milk an honey?), and opportunity to people who had no economic options in post war Europe and, thus, many suddenly decided that adopting the identity of being a "persecuted jew" was their best shot and willingly and enthusiastically took the Israel option regardless of their actual ethnicity and/or religious persuasion. Without documentation, who could prove otherwise -- so it was an easy sale.
2. War weary USA citizens would probably NOT support a USA incursion into the Middle East; and these DP's and a loose rabble of radical Zionist idealists were the perfect patsies to become cannon fodder in a USA Middle Eastern invasion by proxy. Once they arrived, they had NO option but to fight for their lives against the indigenous peoples as there was no going back.
3. The USA could assume the politically popular mantle of being a modern Moses conducting a modern Exodus instead of a foreign invader.
4. In a classic Rhodes operation, the USA had created an economically and militarily dependent minority surrounded by hostile powers that either obeyed USA dictums or faced extinction. Thus these "new jews" were and are in reality hostages suckered into being USA colonialist proxies.
5. Large quantities of self-deluding REAL Jews world wide have also been suckered into supporting ISRAEL politically and economically and will shout down anyone who points out the obvious charade I have listed above as "anti-semitic" thus solving the problem of USA political propaganda. It is the equivalent of USA citizens "supporting the troops" by sending them to their deaths in a foreign lands and all the while feeling smugly patriotic; of course, these "patriots" would not DREAM of going themselves. I have no doubt that even some of the Israeli locals themselves are unaware of their hostage status and buy into the well crafted illuson of their supposed autonomy.
6. It was also a classic divide and conquer move. The fact is the Arabs are as semitic a people as the real Jews. But in the bizzaro world of USA propaganda; phony jews who are NOT even remotely semitic peoples killing real semitic peoples in Palestine is pro-semitic while criticizing those same killings of semites by non-semites is "anti-semitic".

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» Your history is way off Posted by: brunowe
Israel is NOT a country Part II
Posted by: Carl Street on Jan 26, 2007 9:45 AM   
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Thus by using the Israel ploy we undermined much of what could have been a united front against USA colonialism.
The reality is that Israel is NOT a country; in fact; it is NOT even a colony; it is an American military base -- this is easy to see if one takes off the propaganda induced blinders and looks at the raw facts:
1. A country is a politically autonomous geographical area with a self-sustaining economy; common history; language; and the military ability to control its borders.
2. A Colony is a geographical area with limited political autonomy (can't make their own foreign policy) with an economy captivated by a "mother" country and reliant upon the military prowess of same.
3. A Military BASE is a geographical area that is completely dependent upon a "mother" country for supplies (has little or no sustaining economy); no political autonomy (they follow orders).
Israel is a USA base. Of course, large smoke-screen operations are conducted to mask this and pretend they have autonomy; but the economic and military reality is that if we withdrew our support the place would implode within a few weeks -- at most. Moreover, did you know that refusing to do business with Israel is a FEDERAL CRIME in the USA? ONLY ONE other entity is covered by that same law -- refusing to do business with the USA Military!
Perhaps more importantly, Israel's proxy fallacy allows the USA to conduct radical foreign policy experiments with little or no risk. For example, if Iran is bombed, I have no doubt that "Israeli mavericks" will do it; while we sit by and claim we were "surprised" -- followed by the ultimate in hypocrisy; we will no doubt offer to broker a peace.
Finally, The Israel proxy fallacy gives the USA political and military cliques the ultimate money laundering machine. Large quantities of funds can be "lent" to Israel (none of which is ever paid back) which then are used to "purchase" and/or develop military hardware. Also, these funds are used to fund "campaign contributions"; covert operations; compromise, threaten and murder anyone who threatens this system. It is the perfect way of funneling huge amounts of funds into the hands of the PIP's (People In Power) without the inconvenience of audits and oversight.
The LAST thing the USA wants is peace in the Middle East. The interests of the PIP's is best served by continued strife. It not only provides an excuse to populate and sustain military bases throughout the area; but it also keeps the locals from organizing any real threat to the system or even developing their own resources and independent economies. Thus, sustained conflict in the Middle East is the perfect tool to keep the locals in a permanent colonial status.
I may NOT have all the details right; but THINK about it -- despite WWII being over 60 years in the past we have a range of world-wide bases that Hitler and Tojo could only dream about. As I have said before; ignore the patter (story) and watch the hands (what is going on) if you REALLY want to know the truth.

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» Nevada IS a state Posted by: eddie torres
» Everybody's a victim Posted by: eddie torres
» Vegas is safe Posted by: eddie torres
» RE: Nevada IS a state Posted by: maxloen
» They already own LA County Posted by: eddie torres
Keep speaking the truth
Posted by: Democritus on Jan 26, 2007 11:05 AM   
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The only way to stop the cries of "anti-Semitism" and "anti-Israel" is to keep speaking the truth. AIPAC might scare some politicians, but they shouldn't be whom we vote for. The Israeli Defense Force has been persecuting Palestinians for years; Israeli Arabs are being treated as second-class citizens within Israel's borders; pro-Israel advisers to the Bush administration--Feith, Perle, and Wolfowitz--pushed us to invade Iraq. Now the Zionists want us to bomb Iran. Fortunately, we have courageous people--such as the journalist Jeff Blankfort in the United States, and Uri Avnery in Israel--who aren't afraid to speak the truth, despite death threats against them. The truth is simply that Israel must give up its plans to take over the entire West Bank and make peace with the Palestinians, giving them a fair shake on right of return, and with their other neighbors. Jimmy Carter outlines how to do this in his book: Peace: Not Apartheid, and Israel should listen. After all, there are many millions more Muslims in the Middle East than there are Jews; and sooner or later U.S. citizens will weary of sponsoring the military efforts of the Jewish State.

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A Liberal Understands Discrimination
Posted by: Len Miller on Jan 26, 2007 11:19 AM   
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The writer misses the point-- as I am afraid a number of you do. I do not believe that Wes Clark is an anti-semite nor do I believe that Israel is a puppet state of the USA. However, the problem with the Clark statement is that it singles out one "ethnic" group as the provoking source for a policy of War with Iran (even though he admits that the Jewish community is divided). Well, so are many different groups and individuals, including the UN, as to exact intentions of Iran. There is no reason to select out Jewish groups or an "Israeli Lobby". Why not the strong supporters of the Far Right-- Evangelical Christians? Why not the various members of the UN who voted resolutions against Iran?
So you see, the problem with the Clark assessment is it's singling out of an Israeli lobby.

I am always surprised by the vituperative response of people who I assume themselves Liberal when it comes to Israel. Respectfully, I think that sometimes balance and perspective are lost when Israel is mentioned as though Israel and the Jews who stand with it are the pariahs of the World. It is why those of us who are Liberal and stand with Israel are so discomfited. Israel nor Jews should be so singled out. It is a reminder of the selective blame heaped on Jews by so many over the Years. By the way, the loss of six million out of a World population of some 16 million then and now some 13 million is something that must be remembered or it is doomed to be repeated (Darfur and Rwanda are smaller examples). I am shocked by the writer who suggests that Jews are whining about the Holocaust and that a Jew should get over it. Well, if that is the quality of the discourse, it is no wonder that a Jew or Israeli is sensitive to being singled out.

Hopefully, we as Liberals, stand against discrimination. We stand against bigotry and lack of civility in the discussion. Foxman is not the problem. If one is responsive to the concept of treating everyone with an equla hand, one may understand that Clark did 'b(uy) into conspiratorial bigotry' .

Simply because there are many on the right that support Israel is no reason to stand against Israel or to single out Israel and a "Jewish lobby". Singling out Jews "for their monetary contributions" is also ludicrous. Certainly, non-Jews and others spend a great deal more than the Jewish population can muster.

Remember, it is not only Israel or the"Israeli' lobby that is concerned about Iran. I am not in favor of war with Iran. I am in favor of negotiating a resolution. However, to keep a careful eye on a potentially destructive force in the World is not solely an Israeli idea. That is the problem with Wesley Clark's statement. I have great respect for him and I am glad that he understands his mistake. Hopefully the writer and the comment writers will also understand if they can stifle their distorted view of Israel and the Jewish people.

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» Guns or Butter? Posted by: eddie torres
» Spare me the bullshit. Posted by: johndoraemi
» RE: Spare me the bullshit. Posted by: Len Miller
» End of response. Posted by: moflard
Overplaying their hand
Posted by: SFSierra on Jan 26, 2007 11:52 AM   
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Those individuals who try to shut down any criticism of Israeli policy are over playing their hand and doing harm to Jews in Israel and elsewhere in the long run. Their intolerance for any questioning or critical discussion of Israeli actions has been in full view lately with the efforts to discredit and even smear Jimmy Carter. Many of Carter's loudest critics admit that have not even read his book, they are offended by the title therefore it does not matter that the book itself is well researched and raises issues that should be discussed (and particularly discussed in the US where taxpayers provide significant support to Israel). Just like being critical of Bush's policies does not make one anti-American, being critical of Israeli neo-con policies does not make one an anti-semite.

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Staying on Point
Posted by: Partisan Block on Jan 26, 2007 11:53 AM   
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Any lobby for any interest, must be judged by the consequences of its advocacy. The Israel lobby must be held to the same standards that the anti-environmental, anti-labor lobbies are held to. If critics can stay on point, and concentrate on the horrid effects this lobby has on the lives of Palestinians, Israelis and yes Americans, then the accusations of anti-Semitism will become marginal. The primary issues are that of state violence, occupation, ethnic cleansing and apartheid. The secondary issue here is that a cynical group of extremists would like to further exploit the very real historical suffering of Jewish people to justify their activities. The State of Israel, and its lobby simply needs to be held to the same standards any other governement would be.

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» RE: Staying on Point Posted by: Douglas
Noam Chomsky:
Posted by: rwa on Jan 26, 2007 12:08 PM   
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"There's nothing new about this. About 30 years ago the distinguished Israeli statesman Abba Eban explained to an American Jewish audience that their task is to show that any form of anti-Zionism -- meaning criticism of Israel -- is either anti-Semitism, or Jewish self-hatred. That covers 100% of critical comment."

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» RE: Noam Chomsky: Posted by: Dboy
We need equal representation in Congress
Posted by: ng1944 on Jan 26, 2007 12:22 PM   
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As long as most of the Congress are Zionists
or their collaborators there will be no Peace
in this country.

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It's a hard issue to discuss with Jews
Posted by: unitedstatesofstupidity on Jan 26, 2007 12:47 PM   
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My ex was Jewish, and I got myself in hot water multiple times on the Israel topic. I think it's very hard for a lot of Jews to separate criticism of Israel or it's government from anti-semitism or criticism of Judaism in general. You say Israel and they hear Jews. At least in her case, she wasn't even really that familiar with the Israeli government's policies or agenda, so maybe it just sounded like I was attacking her religion. And, she wasn't even that devout a Jew.

I think that the whole "tolerance" idea in the US has just gone so overboard to the point where if you question or bring up valid criticism about anything then you're an intolerant bigot; even if something deserves to be criticised.

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The proof is in the pudding
Posted by: american on Jan 26, 2007 12:57 PM   
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No mention of Jew-led PNAC and the OSP and their cardinal responsibility for Iraq? Why do we pretend we don't know what's really going on? Lookit, the so-called Pro-Israeli lobby should properly be called the Jewish lobby because they represent the views of the vast majority of Jews, contrary to the categorization of our author. Everyone who knows anything (but won’t say it due to fear) knows that Jews, as a societal group are super-networked. Regardless of that fact, I was very surprised (I was younger then) to learn of the numbers of Jews who voted for Bush in 2000 (and 2004), people who were otherwise on the "far left" of the spectrum according to my acquaintances. The only plausible answer is Iraq; this being so, the Jews knew more than I and my crowd did. But if Iraq and Iran are threats to Israel, why does not Israel kill the Iraqian and Iranian people themselves? If the United States attacks Iran, this will be at least third time in the last 2000 years the Jews will have had the rest of us do their killing for them. (Hey, if you think I am too "harsh" - sorry polite circles - consider the man woman or child who died a VIOLENT DEATH in the last ten minutes - that's “harsh.”)

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Zillionaire Israeli fanatic biggest US political contributor
Posted by: Anomalek on Jan 26, 2007 1:30 PM   
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Clark says: "The Jewish community is divided but there is so much pressure being channeled from the New York money people to the office seekers."

He's exactly right, and his characterization is spot-on. According to YNet news, January 23, 2007, hardcore zionist Haim Saban - an Israeli - is the largest political contributor in the United States. The number two and three spots are also held by Jewish people - Stephen Bing and Fred Eichner (another illustration of how poltiically diverse the Jewish community is).

According to the Washington Post in 2003, "In presidential elections, Democratic candidates depend on Jewish supporters to supply as much as 60 percent of the money raised from private sources." (from "GOP Uses remarks to court Jews", By Thomas B. Edsall and Alan Cooperman, Washington Post, March 13, 2003)

In other words, a handfull of members of a minority representing less than 2% of the US population is providing 2/3rds of the funding for the presidential elections. General Clark is correct to talk about the "money people," linking them not so much with zionism as with the small world and predictable interests of transnational uberwealthy elites - even though of course there is political divergence even within this tiny crowd.

What many commentators fail to grasp is that Zionism is an ideology which has little to do with traditional American concepts of left and right, which is why you can have so many zionists who are democratically aligned, who are truly liberal or even progressive on most issues, but who cannot by any stretch of the human imagination be called liberal or progressive when it comes to the subject of Israel. The views on Israel of many of these people may be diverse, but ultimately, they are still very focused on Israel, which is perhaps one reason our foreign policy is so Israel-obsessed, with truly disastrous consequences for the entire region.

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Israel is lucky
Posted by: Iconoclast421 on Jan 26, 2007 1:48 PM   
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After making such fools of themselves in Lebanon, blowing up red cross ambulances and UN buildings etc, they should consider themselves lucky for it has given them the patience to avoid making a huge mistake.

Imagine if Israel had rolled all over Lebanon without giving themselves a media black eye. I bet they would not have hesitated to hit Iran.

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Israel Died with Itzhak Rabin
Posted by: sofla100 on Jan 26, 2007 1:58 PM   
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Before Rabin was assasinated, Israel was "on course" towards comprehensive and viable peace settlements with both the Palestinians and neighboring Arab countries. Since Rabin was assasinated however, Israeli politics, and her economic/cultural life, have become infected with right-wing extremism and an out of control national security/military complex. Of course, we have also seen this happening with America, but the effect is much more magnified in Israel as she is a small country in a volatile region. This is really a shame, as the once tolerant cultural life of Israel has even degenerated into Arabs routinely being called "pigs," or "dogs" or worse by many in Israel (but not all) and once unconscionable acts such as the government engaging in indefinite and illegal detentions, assasinations, and the like are seen as common place. I think also that the enormous military aid America has given Israel and the consequent Israeli economy being dominated by military and defense industries has created a large, entire segment of the Israeli populace that fears peace. If you have peace, what happens to the military,? to the jobs and contracts that the military and national security create? It is the same problem in America, but once again magnified in Israel. Now, to some extent, this degeneration was fueled by the "suicide bombers" from the territories, but like America, Israeli politicians have taken advantage of this to create a perpetual "war on terror," and the never ending national security state. I am afraid Israel and America both share the same cancer that militarization inevitably creates. Somehow Israel, like America, must return to at least a resembalance of what once was. Tolerance, the value of peace and understanding, respect for all religions, freedom for all. No more of the craziness of spending all your countries wealth on guns, bombs and death machines. As for America, no more "democracy out of the barrel of a gun," and the same for Israel.

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» RE: Israel Died with Itzhak Rabin Posted by: cold2touch
Let's aim for some dispassionate, open discussion, please!
Posted by: UP58 on Jan 26, 2007 3:22 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I haven't had the patience - or the stomach - to read through all the comments on this article. As I anticipated, however, many of them are, unfortunately, biased or bigoted in one direction or the other. So, in the perhaps misguided hope that some dispassionate clarity might be put into this discussion, let me offer the following points, which can easily be substantiated:

1. The Israeli public is much more divided on this issue that would be apparent from news accounts in the US, as this article does, in fact, suggest.

2. There is a very active PEACE MOVEMENT in Israel. In fact, members of Combatants for Peace, both Israeli Jews and Palestians, are currently on a speaking tour of the US.

3. There also are substantial numbers of American Jews who, in principle, support Israel, but who also would very much like to see the peace process proceed much more vigorously.

4. It is, ironically, more difficult for American Jews to be critical of the Israeli government and their policies than for Israeli citizens to do so, largely because AIPAC's views have dominated the press, as well as the Bush administration, and, therefore also, the discussion.

5. Among the organizations earnestly working toward a more balanced and peace-oriented approach to Israeli policies are Brit Zedek v'Shalom (The Jewish Alliance for Justice and Peace) at http://www.btvshalom.org/, and Rabbis for Human Rights at http://rhr.israel.net/.

Would that all of you would try to think and act with the same kind of goodness of conscience that these groups, and others like them, try to exhibit.

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sHillary jumped on that gravy train
Posted by: anniedine on Jan 26, 2007 3:42 PM   
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and has been riding it ever since.

Wes Clark: "...the New York money people..."
And thanks to an Alternet poster above we see from the Washington Post that "[i]n presidential elections, Democratic candidates depend on Jewish supporters to supply as much as 60 percent of the money raised from private sources."

sHillary could have faked residence in any of the 50 states. She picked NY for this reason alone and now she's doing the dirty work of her puppetmasters.

Sickening.

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how to retake America
Posted by: cold2touch on Jan 26, 2007 3:58 PM   
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Next time you vote, check off either the candidate that you know since childhood or failing that, the least recognizable name on the least.
That way you ensure that the usual sellouts wearing AIPAC dog tags and frantically promoted by MSM don't end up your vote.
It's a start.

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Carter Center has taken Tens of Millions from Saudi Family
Posted by: albertg on Jan 26, 2007 4:42 PM   
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Does that make Carter an Islamo Fascist? The labeling on this site is disgusting. Do you have a problem with 527s like MoveOn funneling millions for its agenda? What about teacher's unions? The AFL/CIO?

Fight Right Wing Jews on the issues, not on the creepy issue of money--when it suits your purposes.

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Kosher?
Posted by: opeluboy on Jan 26, 2007 4:55 PM   
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I agree with Yglesias' points in the main, but the title infuriates me. Why does there have to be a "kosher" way to criticize Israel? I can criticize anything I want, this country included. Israel deserves no special treatment and a whopping amount of criticism. If they can't take criticism from the very people who prop up their lame ass country, they should get off the tit.

Secondly, I do not agree that there is this huuuuge divide among American Jews on Palestine, Iran, etc. They are mostly ALL complicit, by silence if nothing else. Few dare criticize Israel openly, which is as good as supporting its ruthless behavior.

We had better reach a point in this country — and soon — where foreign policy is not dictated by Zionists. I have little hope this will happen, however, with them firmly in control of media.

Yes, they control media. No, that is not an anti-Semitic statement. It's a FACT. Only the dishonest and the incredibly stupid would dispute it.

And, yes, I am still waiting for that wonderful liberal, the bastion of hope in this 21st century, Jon Stewart, to make one fucking negative comment about one goddamn thing Israel has ever done.

I am not holding my breath.

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» RE: Kosher? Posted by: YogiBear
Wes Clark
Posted by: gellero on Jan 26, 2007 5:03 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
FYI Wes Clark is actually ethnically Jewish. Clark is his stepfather's name. His birth name is Keene (I believe). His mother and father ( who died when he was a young boy ) were Jewish. His stepfather was not. He was brought up Catholic.

How do I know?? A close friend of mine is his second cousin and knows the family history. Check it out for yourself.....he doesn't deny any of it. He also graduated in the top ten of his West Point class. Jewish blood has historically been very smart....

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» What Bigotted Crap!!! Posted by: Douglas
OK I Agree
Posted by: gellero on Jan 26, 2007 9:58 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
OK I agree....blood can't be smart....let's just call it genetics, heredity, or whatever.

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» Intelligence & Ashkenazi Jews Posted by: Aufklaerung_Baboon
» RE: Honesty & Ashkenazi Jews Posted by: cold2touch
» RE: Disinfo & Ashkenazi Jews Posted by: cold2touch
» Unsubstantiated BS Posted by: gellero
» substantiated truth Posted by: cold2touch
» RE: substantiated truth- not Posted by: gellero
Also
Posted by: gellero on Jan 26, 2007 10:01 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And by the way, my comment with the statement 'Jewish Blood' is linguistically known as a 'metaphor', which perhaps only the literate classes would understand.

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» Metaphor Posted by: gellero
» Racist?? Posted by: gellero
» L'il Dinker..... Posted by: gellero
» L'il Dinker..... Posted by: gellero
» L'il Dinker..... Posted by: gellero
Which of the two is the biggest threat to the free world?
Posted by: helgerry on Jan 27, 2007 8:58 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I still can't figure out between zionism and islamist extremism, which one is the biggest threat to the free world... If we could find a way to get rid of them both, we'd be just a stone throw away from peace on this planet (assuming we don't p*ss off the Chinese).

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great article
Posted by: off-the-radar 2 on Jan 27, 2007 10:26 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
thoughtful, well-written article, thanks.

Wish I could say the same about the comments . . . so many are so hateful and anti-Semetic

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ZION BUBBLE
Posted by: Hal on Jan 27, 2007 10:29 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Being half Jewish I suppose I can only be half wrong according to Zionists who pretend to speak for pious Israeli empire.

The bottom line on all this?

Israel was and is an artificial western colonial state imposed onto the Mid East from whole cloth by robber barons including Lord Rothschild and other Zionists oligarchs (Jewish and non-Jewish) as a western beachhead to project power into a region of prized assets.

This is a Zionist patsy state whose rank and file Ashkenazi European minority are brainwashed with Mizrahi, Sephardic and other Jews from birth to believe they are the “chosen” with divine right to take what they have no legitimate claim to.

Israel is unfortunately a reality that can only exist as a freeloader carried by lapdog Washington and London governments run by parasite oligarchs. And cartel robber barons have no real religion or ideology but use such to exploit others. The truth of course is, oligarchs only serve themselves for age-old blood money avarice.

The final truth…

Israel was born out of terror to languish in terror unless human beings from all sides realize they have been used and extorted by the usual suspects.

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WE'RE FED UP WITH AIPAC AND WE'RE NOT GOING TO TAKE IT ANYMORE!!!!!!
Posted by: helgerry on Jan 28, 2007 4:48 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Jews have to get rid of that monster that was created in their name before it's too late! Is that being anti-semitic by the way? I just don't know any more... Anti this, anti that... F*ck that! I'm just being PRO-AMERICAN!!!! What's wrong with that?

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A nuance is a terrible thing to waste
Posted by: tunejunky on Jan 28, 2007 8:07 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If i didn't know better i'd think it was political season.
waitaminnit...

ahh... remember when all jewish people in america knew the republicans were keeping them out of the country club?

i'm not a jew, but i've been a sabbath goy many times.

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Askenazi jews, race,intelligence....connecting the dots...
Posted by: ekipnrut on Jan 29, 2007 8:00 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Remember Miss Cleo the Diva of TV Psychics??.....The link
Slate
is to an article that concludes with:
The bizarre lesson in all this: The more preposterous and unprovable one's claims, the less subject they will be to legal tests and legal scrutiny. If I run an ad that says I'm a dentist, I may be off to prison. If I say my cat is the messiah, I'm in the clear. So long as that's the case, the Miss Cleos of the world are free to launch their preposterous claims at the public, just wearing different hats and faking different accents. Sigh. I see Miss Cleo in our future for a long, long time.
..One of the jokes about the episode at the time was along the
lines of: If Miss Cleo is so Psychic....why didn't she see the
lawsuits and indictments headed her way!! :o)
Of course the answer is obvious. As is the case after a
similar application of Occam's razor to the claim of an
extraordinary presence of 'native (verbal and math.. not
spatial) intelligence' in the Ashkenazi cohort as being
inconsistent with a certain perennial susceptibility to pogroms
and other disasters.
I suspect..no clairvoyance..that most of the Alternet readers
of this article in particular are white..some of whom are jews.
However the subject of race and intelligence has been
inextricably bound up with the white supremacist claims of
European racists Galton ,Pearson et. al, followed by
American racists Shockley, Jensen et.al. So I think it is only
fair to point out how you whites..jew and non jew have had
your..shall we say 'falling outs' about who is uber who..
so to speak:

Lenard
:o)
Ahhhhhh . this just in from Dr. Pangloss:
The New Aztlan Instutut fur Rassenhygiene and Orient Study
..something for everyone..well.. most everyone..
The incipient ethnic cleansing in LA...the waves of neonazi
activity in all of Europe including Russia...the prevalence of
Asians in American Higher Ed... It all has a purpose...:o)

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acceptable criticism
Posted by: bambino on Jan 29, 2007 1:44 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
apart from labels, i wonder at which point does a group accept a criticism as legitimate. i have noted that when it come to israel noone is accepted as legitimate or even interesting . that includes nobel laureates, heads of nations, europe, etc. there is nonone. yet when it comes to american jews especially, they always seek out authorities to quell any objections one may have lets say about the holocust. then it is , the pope said this.... or this important academic said this. the reason i note this is that my husband uses this all the time and i have started to note who else argues that way. the world court says this - your country did this, etc. it goes on... elie wiesel said this... but if one mentions other notables in the opposite direction then they are always irrelevant. well, what do you expect of a south american or that one has some questionable background, etc. it is a kind of game now .

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Israel more than just military, etc.
Posted by: davmills on Jan 30, 2007 7:32 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Must of the comments posted seem critical of Zionism and even Israel; some are lucid, many simply unpleasant.
Perhaps one could remember Israel isn't just militant. There is also a civil society that includes universities (where important research is done), science, and culture.
Middle-Eastern Moslem countries suffer from stereotypes too. I do know that Baghdad actually had a symphony orchestra (which may still exist). Arab archeologists do important work researching their country's/region's history.
There's sometimes more to a country/society/region than it's more violent aspects.

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» What cost culture Posted by: moflard
Mr. Yglesias---There is a Kosher Way to Criticize the "Israeli Lobby"
Posted by: Len Miller on Jan 30, 2007 2:28 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Mr. Yglesias, take a look at the comments to your article. They are a sad commentary on the manner of discourse when it comes to the State of Israel. Of course, there is a proper way to criticize policies that one disagrees with. Israelis themselves, freely criticize their government. It is one of the great strengths of the State of Israel. Freedom of speech and a Court system and system of Justice that dispenses Justice without regard to governmental favortisim is part of the Israeli way of life. Peace groups abound. Opposing views are always present.

Therefore, if criticism is factually accurate not hysterical or blinded by hate-- If criticsm is equitable and fair -- not imagined, then Kosher it is. However, when criticism is filled with vitriol, is inequitable and historically inaccurate and, yes, bigoted and is far astray from your article and Clark's comments, then it is not Kosher and must suffer response. Criticism with purpose to guide and correct is always acceptable. Name calling and lack of fairness is not.

Most of your commentators use foul language in what can only be described as an irrational hatred for a Country and its people. It is a wonder that the comments are permitted by Alternet. No matter, apparently when it comes to the Jewish people and/or the Jewish State, it apparently brings out the worst in people. I am constantly amazed.

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» RE: Mr. ekipnrut- I REST MY CASE Posted by: Len Miller
Ralph Nader on the Israel Lobby in 2004
Posted by: Aufklaerung_Baboon on Jan 31, 2007 4:57 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is semi-old news, but since it was never widely reported (of course) it will be new news to many. At least one major (semi-major?) political figure, Ralph Nader, has the 'chutzpah' to stand up to the Israel lobby and isn't fooled by their sophistry, nor is he tempted by their illegal trillions.

Nader was chided by Abe Foxman of the ADL during his 2004 presidential campaign for referring to certain Israelis as "puppeteers" and American politicians as "puppets." OF COURSE the mainstream media negelected to mention this (save a couple sources), much less cover it in any depth. Check it out:

* Ralph Nader -- Brief YouTube clip: Israeli puppeteers, American puppets

* Nader vs. the ADL

* ADL Objects To Ralph Nader's Characterization of U.S. Government As 'Puppet' to Israel

* Nader responds to ADL

* ADL responds to Nader


Mr. Nader (I wish that I could call you President Nader): I APPLAUD YOU AND ADMIRE YOUR COURAGE IN CONFRONTING THESE EXPLOITATIVE AND MANIPULATIVE WAR PIGS. There is no doubt in my mind that HISTORY WILL PROVE YOU RIGHT.

GODSPEED

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dick
Posted by: rtmyth on Jan 31, 2007 7:43 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Israel controls the Admin via the neocons. It controls the Congress via its' pacs and lobbys, who every Congress member know will defeat them for reelection if they vote against Israel's wishes/demands. Thus, the recent elections have had no effect on our causing mayhem in the middle east. Israel is all for it and is urging us on for a war with Iran.

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President Carter found a way to do it
Posted by: shhazam4 on Jan 31, 2007 2:34 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And we should all applaud his efforts both in his book and his open forums.

President Carter has real insight into the Israeli and Palestinian positions and when he observes that the pendulum has swung too far in either direction, we should take note and listen to his opinions.

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What the
Posted by: miggy on Feb 10, 2007 9:14 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Ive been banned from several discussion boards for trying to initiate discussion on this topic, im afraid.

Ill try to write this comment as a Haiku if anyone asks.

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