COMMENTS: 227
The Big Corporate Motherhood Conspiracy
Sign up to stay up to date on the latest headlines via email.
Next to them are the baby supply boutiques with everything you could possibly want to accessorize your new role as mother (and the life of your newborn). Strollers big enough to be in the SUV section at your local car dealership -- with prices to match -- are parked next to cribs fit for a princess. Mixed in for good measure are the educational toy stores, the cloth diapering stores, the organic cotton baby clothing stores, and the baby beauty product stores. All proof that motherhood has become a trend.
Now, often trends, particularly fashion trends, are quite fun. Who doesn't love experimenting with new colors (remember when red was the "new black?") and new styles such as huge purses, thigh-high boots and over-sized sunglasses? However, turning something as life-changing as motherhood into a trend is, at best, misleading and, at worst, totally irresponsible. Some women, drawn in by the trend, become completely disillusioned when they realize that motherhood isn't always as delightful as donning the latest offerings from the runways of Paris (or the cheap runway imitations).
This motherhood trend has been partially fueled by the seemingly endless supply of A- and B-list celebrities popping out their progeny left, right and center. It started with Demi Moore and her groundbreaking Vanity Fair cover. And now, stories of pregnant stars and celebrity mothers are as ubiquitous as stories about their disintegrating love lives.
These aspiring celebrity mothers look stunning during pregnancy (Britney Spears notwithstanding). And, one to two weeks after giving birth, they appear with their little ones looking as though they had just spent the past two weeks with a personal masseuse, instead of going through the most painful experience known to womankind and staying up all night with a newborn.
The other culprits in this breeding bonanza are the industries and businesses that have woven a misleading myth of motherhood into our popular culture. They are following in the prestigious footsteps of the hugely successful wedding industry, which realized they could make millions by creating and perpetuating the dream of a fairy tale wedding and perfect marriage -- a myth if ever there was one.
And now, in a bid to repeat this success, a new industry has been born: the motherhood industry. Set up solely to sell women a new myth, the myth of the problem- and pain-free motherhood, it focuses only on the very best experiences that motherhood offers: the wonder of being pregnant, the experience of nursing a child, of watching them sleeping in their crib, of reading them classics such as Goodnight Moon and of course, of taking glorious walks with your partner and your perfect little bundle of joy tucked inside that SUV-sized stroller.
The fact that pregnancy can be extremely uncomfortable (to say the least), that nursing can lead to cracked and bleeding nipples, that your baby might wake up every hour of the night for the first year, that Goodnight Moon loses some of its charm after the one hundredth reading, and that you will have to learn how to maneuver your huge stroller through a busy mall while clutching a screeching 2-year-old, are facts that the motherhood industry conveniently overlooks.
Indeed, the relentless, challenging, overwhelming, sometimes downright depressing parts of motherhood are entirely disregarded.
And what of those gorgeous looking celebrities who seem to make the transition to glamorous mother without effort? Well, most celebrity mothers probably have spent the first two weeks post partum with their masseuse (oh, and their newborn). Celebrities can also add personal baby shoppers, lactation consultants, personal baby nutritionists, nighttime doulas, daytime nannies, and post pregnancy fitness instructors to their already existing arsenal of cleaning ladies, personal assistants and chefs. Any new mother would do the same -- and look gorgeous doing it -- if she could afford to.
So, what happens to the average everyday woman who may have felt a little unsure about becoming a mother, but who gets drawn into the trend being perpetuated by popular culture? Who, in her desire to have the cool new "pregnancy look," the new cute baby look, and imitate the celebrity mothers, conveniently overlooks, forgets, and disregards the fact that, unlike some of her previous fashion foibles, this one is forever? She cannot simply put it into the Goodwill bag with the 80s hypercolor T-shirts and the side ponytails.
Many women, if the blogs and the media are correct, are surprised and disillusioned when they discover what being a mother is really all about. They fall for the motherhood trend, hook, line and pacifier, and are bewildered when the experience does not live up to their expectations.
An article published in a major Canadian newspaper interviewed several new mothers who seemed to be surprised to discover that motherhood can actually be extremely challenging and, wait for it -- boring. Many of them were desperate to find someone else to look after their children and return to their pre-baby lives.
And these mothers are not alone. The Internet is full of stories and blogs of women disillusioned with their motherhood experience, some so much so they have voiced regret at having children, a feeling that does not bode well for the future psychological health of their offspring.
Comments from these mothers include such thoughts as “children are mind-numbingly boring,†and “looking after children makes women depressed†to the /www.boundless.org/features/a0000908.html “>slightly more disturbing: “I was an attractive, fulfilled career woman before these kids. Now I’m an overly-exhausted wreck who misses her job and sees very little of her husband,†and the even more disturbing: “It is no secret to my children that I consider myself to be carrying out a prison sentence and I'm counting the days 'til I am free."
And little real support is available to help them cope with their disillusionment. There are, of course, endless parenting advice books, all promising to put the reader on the fast track toward their fantasy motherhood experience. Most of these books have overtly misleading titles such as The Happiest Baby on the Block or The No-Cry Sleep Solution. The fact these books often end up gathering dust in the back of a cupboard before your child has reached his or her first birthday, suggests just how effective they are.
And let's not forget the thousands of products that promise to transform your life with baby into everything you thought it could be. The fact is that no products or books are going to give you the motherhood you imagined when you bought the fashionable pregnancy clothes, the gorgeous crib and the fancy stroller. And the reason? This motherhood does not exist. There will be moments that live up to the image fueling the motherhood trend, but they will always be offset by moments that seem to come straight out of a Stephen King novel.
So what to do? Well, a good place to start would be to stop treating motherhood as the new black. Perhaps those considering having kids, should be allowed to dream about their new pregnancy wardrobe and wander through the baby stores imagining how darling their little one will look in the fuzzy pink baby Ugg's playing in the new princess sandbox. And then, they should be asked to spend 48 hours at home doing some repetitive mind numbing task like data entry, with only a couple of minutes per day to either eat, grab a shower, or get dressed. During the first night they will be woken every three hours, but still required to function the next day, performing their mind-numbing task and again with only a few precious minutes to themselves (if that). The second night they will be kept up, with only a few hours here and there to sleep while various wet sticky, smelly substances are thrown at them, in a bid to demonstrate what it might be like to look after a sick baby.
By providing potential mothers with this balanced perspective, they will be able to make a more informed decision. Instead of falling for the motherhood trend and only later discovering it is not all it's advertised to be (suffering through endless hours of disillusionment and boredom, until finally hiring a nanny and running screaming from the house), women will come into their new role much more aware, much more prepared and much more able to deal with the challenges and joys of being a mother.
Even the stores and the culture promoting the motherhood trend will benefit from offering a more balanced view. An increase in the number of satisfied mothers will, in turn, produce more satisfied, grounded children. This will help to ensure fewer children get involved in gangs, drugs and shooting sprees and instead become functioning members of society, with lots of money to spend on things such as beautiful but unnecessary mother and baby products.
A fantasy? Perhaps. But no more so than the myth of motherhood now being perpetuated. This is not to suggest no one should ever again have children because it is so awful. It is simply trying to point out what should be obvious; you can't base your decision on having a baby on the same criteria you would use to buy the latest iPod or the cute little outfit you tried on at Sak's yesterday.
Which brings us back to the question: to procreate or not to procreate? Well, if you think you want to have a baby, you will need to look into the idea much more deeply. Start by talking to other women about their experiences with motherhood and reading about it. A wealth of information on motherhood is available on the Internet and in bookstores. A few to try include BellaOnline, a compendium of articles on whether or not to become a mom, and books such as Do I Want to Be A Mom? A Woman's Guide to the Decision of a Lifetime by Suzan Eram and Maybe Baby: 28 Writers Tell the Truth About Skepticism, Infertility, Baby Lust, Childlessness, Ambivalence, and How They Made the Biggest Decision of Their Lives by Lori Leibovich.
If you still can’t decide, try to clear your mind and look at both sides of the equation. Let yourself by pulled into the dream for a moment (we all know that fantasy roll playing is a very good thing). Imagine yourself wearing, and looking gorgeous in, the funky new pregnancy fashions. Gaze at the stroller in front of you, and envision you and your partner strolling along with latte's in hand while your perfect baby, dressed in the latest Robeez and GAP Baby outfit, coos at the birds. Then, before you find yourself dragging your partner home to get on with procreating, pause. Shift this vision to the darker side, and now picture you and your partner practically running, with a screaming baby in your arms, in a desperate attempt to get home, as the latte you ordered congeals in the bottom of the stroller. Then imagine doing this after having only slept for two hours the night before.
If both these images are ones you think you can handle, then talk some more, think some more and nudge your partner toward the bedroom. If not, then perhaps take your hard-earned money, buy yourself a sexy, non-pregnancy top, a bottle of wine, and lead your partner to the bedroom -- or whatever location is most convenient -- birth control and all.
Stay up to date with the latest AlterNet headlines via email
Comments are closed-
Posted by: dannrusso on Feb 20, 2007 3:46 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is just my humble opinion based on what I've seen in the past year or so...excuse me, I need to go make a bottle... :-)
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» More than one premise needs re-examination.
Posted by: RON_KING
» Not me dude!
Posted by: slydad
» I think that by alternetian logic, you've absolutely...
Posted by: ABetterFuture
» RE: i respectfully disagree
Posted by: sethmo
» Wait till you're dealing with the smart mouth 13 year old
Posted by: harpy
» So life it tough? Get over it crybaby
Posted by: chief of okeefe
» RE: So life it tough? Get over it crybaby
Posted by: faeriefolk
Comments are closed-
Posted by: kepstein7777 on Feb 20, 2007 4:18 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Not too long ago, parenting was a responsibility, and not much more. And a lot of us were better off under that arrangement.
Now parenting is a full-time obsession. Kids have become the center of the universe. Hence all of the overstimulated, misbehaved, overscheduled brats. Soccer parents got themselves into this one; the retail business is just feeding off of it.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Lactation consultant?
Posted by: cmaciain
» RE: Lactation consultant?
Posted by: MartianBachelor
» Whole future at stake with a STROLLER??
Posted by: churchofone
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Annarisse on Feb 20, 2007 4:25 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That said, people have always made choices and then regretted them. For those who don't regret their children, having all the doo-dads can be a real balm to the spirit. For those who do regret them, there are more choices now than ever before. If they need out of the house, they can find a way to get out of the house, and enjoy their children more when they're home. The trend allows for more balance than the previous rigid social structure of the family ever did.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: terradea on Feb 20, 2007 4:48 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Don't do it!
Posted by: elderwoman.org
» I LOVED giving birth and having children RE: Don't do it!
Posted by: sleeson
» RE: Don't do it! - I totally AGREE! Don't do it!
Posted by: Aimee
» RE: Don't do it!
Posted by: pomes
» RE: Don't do it!
Posted by: MattS
» RE: What happened to you to make you SO NEGATIVE?!
Posted by: Cathyc
» C-Section question???
Posted by: vangogh69
» RE: C-Section question???
Posted by: faeriefolk
» REALITY probably made her negative!
Posted by: harpy
» I'm lucky, yes - but I also put a LOT of effort into...
Posted by: Cathyc
» Feel sorry for your children
Posted by: chief of okeefe
» RE: Don't do it!
Posted by: armybrat8
Comments are closed-
Posted by: ellie on Feb 20, 2007 4:59 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
3 born, 1 to go, come on july!
ps. there are some things that will come out over thanksgiving dinner that will make your blood run cold when one offspring says to another, 'remember when we......."
you want prada for baby, suv strollers and princess beds? dogs make nice children too!
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: we are counting the days
Posted by: Guy
» RE: we are counting the days
Posted by: prairiedog
» Age 18 doesn't mean they grow up
Posted by: harpy
» RE: we are counting the days
Posted by: johnc271
Comments are closed-
Posted by: the islander on Feb 20, 2007 5:42 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have raised my children. Now,I want to be a fore-runner for all of you active adults. I am speaking here to tell you that I want to help create in this last stage of 'elderhood' a meaning for our culture beyond fashion, even beyond buying and selling. I am referring to the wisdom that can be gathered from long years of experience in living. A few will hear me.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Speaking as an Elder
Posted by: elderwoman.org
» RE: Speaking as an Elder
Posted by: cmaciain
Comments are closed-
Posted by: VannaLaRoche on Feb 20, 2007 5:58 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If you choose not to have a baby, you will often be viewed as unfeminine, man-hating, selfish, emotionally cold, non-nurturing. If you don't have a baby, the reasoning goes, you probably won't nurture a man, either. And man care can be so easily folded into child care it's ridiculous to look for a childless wife. You might have to fold your own socks!
So have the baby if you can't handle a little misapprehension from the public. Go ahead and have it, it'll make things all better.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: It's so much easier to just have the kid
Posted by: igancedo
» RE: It's so much easier to just have the kid
Posted by: VannaLaRoche
» You are SO darn right~!
Posted by: janvdb
» RE: It's so much easier to just have the kid
Posted by: mindcryme
» I'm a man who greatly appreciates childless women -- Thank you!
Posted by: Pat Kittle
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Jess on Feb 20, 2007 6:18 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Women, don't rely on motherhood to fill the void
Posted by: SekhmetsatRa
» dont forget about the men!
Posted by: Iconoclast421
» RE: dont forget about the men!
Posted by: maribelle
» RE: Women, don't rely on motherhood to fill the void
Posted by: churchofone
» RE: Women, don't rely on motherhood to fill the void
Posted by: armybrat8
Comments are closed-
Posted by: meacoleman on Feb 20, 2007 6:33 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Thank you for writing this
Posted by: babs
» RE: Thank you for writing this
Posted by: Marcy
Comments are closed-
Posted by: ladymargot on Feb 20, 2007 6:35 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Agree totally about the non glamorous part about being a mother. There are too many institutions making a lot of money on motherhood and creating a fantasy world out of bearing a child. Having children is a lot of work and responsibility and not enough is being done to help working families. More needs to be done as most families have both wife and husband working.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Having Children is a Sacrifice - it is a life altering event!
Posted by: Aimee
Comments are closed-
Posted by: VZEQICVA on Feb 20, 2007 6:43 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: SekhmetsatRa on Feb 20, 2007 6:45 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: boring
Posted by: VannaLaRoche
» EXACTLY
Posted by: Iconoclast421
» RE: XACTLY
Posted by: pomes
» Armchair quarterbacks
Posted by: fork
» RE: Armchair quarterbacks
Posted by: mr. joshua
» Talk about myths..
Posted by: AmyB
» RE: boring
Posted by: mr. joshua
Comments are closed-
Posted by: ladyoracle on Feb 20, 2007 6:56 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As a 27-yr old woman who has never had an ounce of maternal instinct (including not wanting to play house or to play with baby dolls as a small child) this validates much of what I suspect of my procreating friends. I have been noticing the motherhood in hollywood trend with trepidation, noticing my friends get sucked into it.
Another angle the writer could have noted is that this trend occured during the 1940s with actresses as well. When women start getting too powerful, popular culture pushes motherhood onto us. Bastards. Of course that created the 1950s myth of domestic bliss, which exploded with Betty Friedan and the second wave of feminism.
I'm sure this motherhood craze will pass, replaced with an even stronger, fresh feminist approach that will be much more focused than the supposed third wave. And when it arrives, I will be here waiting for it and will embrace all my friends who just had to try motherhood out to know for sure that it was totally not for them.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: great article! - except liberals are going extinct...
Posted by: MartianBachelor
» RE: great article!
Posted by: Sushi
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Aimee on Feb 20, 2007 7:08 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I had three babies and as much as I love my children, I do not recommend having babies / children. Women are being treated like cows, breeders. Bringing a baby into the world is serious business. Where is the healthcare for both the mother and the babies?
How can a mother raise babies without healthcare and of course $$$$ to support them? Who is going to take care of the babies while you are at work? Finally, is a few moments of sex with a penis worth bringing a baby into this world filled with war, terrorism and hate worth it? NO.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: DON'T DO IT! I AGREE!
Posted by: mindcryme
» Healthcare and $$$s-- if you are married, one person works and the other watches kids
Posted by: chief of okeefe
» Yeah, but you make it clear your attitude is sexist
Posted by: Beck
Comments are closed-
Posted by: ardilla on Feb 20, 2007 7:11 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
On the flip side, as a woman who is nine months pregnant and whose decision to have children had nothing to do with pregnant celebrities, I will say that the options available for women in terms of fashion and creature comforts have made some of the discomforts of pregnancy a little more palatable. I am so grateful that my maternity clothing options have not been limited to Disney themes or other infantilizing styles.
One issue that this article touches on that needs to be examined more closely are the class issues touched on by the "mommy trend." Take breastfeeding, for example. I feel privileged to be able to try breastfeeding. I have shelled out extra money to take a four-hour class, to hire a doula and to purchase a number of little devices to make breastfeeding easier for me. Although breastfeeding is cheaper (not to mention healthier) in the long run, lower-income mothers are not going to be able to make the up-front investment that I have to ensure breastfeeding success. They also are less likely to have family members to stay with them and support them during the first couple of weeks to ensure initial successes. When these women go back to work, their lower-wage jobs are less likely to be supportive of pumping or to provide the privacy and time to pump. Finally, if they qualify for WIC or another program, formula is likely going to be subsidized enough for them to make it the most cost-friendly solution.
Rather than focusing on whether or not women are informed enough to make wise decisions about having children, let's focus on the socio-economic inequalities of mothering that the "mommy movement" brings to the surface. Give women some credit and get real about the issues at stake.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: mothersmovement on Feb 20, 2007 7:13 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This author -- who makes some interesting points -- seems utterly oblivious to the fact that the transformation of pregnancy and baby care into a red-hot consumer trend is merely the latest iteration of a cultural ethos that's been kicking around for several hundred years, i.e., the idealization of motherhood as woman's crowning achievement. It just happens that some whip-smart marketers have figured out that for urban-dwelling Gen X and younger women with money and social capital to burn, one's crowning achievement must also be culturally visible, status-marking and suitably hip.
Ours is not the first generation of mothers to be disillusioned by the realties of child-rearing. Thirty years ago, a sociologist named Jesse Bernard found that middle-class mothers were saying they loved their children, but hated motherhood -- they hated the social isolation, the lack of support, the attitude that caring for children is primarily the mother's responsibility. The fiction we're laboring under today is that so much has changed vis-à-vis the status of women since Bernard wrote "The Future of Motherhood" that any mother who admits "I consider myself to be carrying out a prison sentence and I'm counting the days 'til I am free" must be maladjusted, duped by the motherhood sell, or not cut out for mothering in the first place.
Alas, the sexist, racialized, class-marking ideology of exclusive motherhood is still going strong (see Susan Douglas and Meredith Michaels "The Mommy Myth" or Judith Warner's "Perfect Madness"). Ms. Stajic confirms this when she writes "An increase in the number of satisfied mothers will, in turn, produce more satisfied, grounded children. This will help to ensure fewer children get involved in gangs, drugs and shooting sprees and instead become functioning members of society, with lots of money to spend on things such as beautiful but unnecessary mother and baby products." Oh really? Is the essential ingredient to raising "well grounded," economically competitive, socially responsible, law abiding children mothers' personal "satisfaction" with their maternal role? Or do structural and economic factors perhaps have something to do with it?
The conflicts and concerns of affluent, urban dwelling hipster moms who suffer "through endless hours of disillusionment and boredom, until finally hiring a nanny and running screaming from the house" (or, alternately, "opt out" of their prestigious careers for a stint of stay-at-home motherhood) are shamelessly overrepresented in both mainstream and alternative media. The social, economic and cultural realities of American motherhood are far more serious and complicated, and are not helped by the fact that the U.S. is an extreme outlier among wealthy nations in providing basic social supports for maternal health and employment, or the welfare of twenty-first century families in general.
I respectfully caution AlterNet readers not to buy into the message that the world would automatically be a better place if women made more responsible choices about motherhood, even when it's delivered in the progressive-friendly package of responsible consumerism. Mothers and their choices are not the issue. Gender ideology and social values are.
Judith Stadtman Tucker
Editor, the Mothers Movement Online
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» War machine fodder
Posted by: db
» RE: Short sighted and elitist - thank you
Posted by: elizacoop
» We WOULD be way better off if women made better choices about motherhood, though
Posted by: janvdb
» you're right though
Posted by: vangogh69
» RE: Short sighted and elitist
Posted by: fork
Comments are closed-
Posted by: grmc1 on Feb 20, 2007 7:16 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Modern life, particularly post industrial revolution, has slowly but surely stolen our real purpose from us and has substituted one that effectively makes us servile to the capitalist machine. Nature still insists that we reproduce but the system makes it increasingly difficult to do so in an enjoyable sustainable manner.
That mothers these days have been brainwashed into believing that they could be doing something that gives them more pleasure than mothering, exemplifies the shortcomings of the anti human capitalist system under which we suffer.
Notice that many, if not most of the difficulties quoted by disenchanted mothers are strictly confined to the activities foist upon them by an out of control exploitative capitalist system. Were it not for that the vast majority of the supposed pressures that make child rearing unbearable would disappear. Even painful birth and cracked nipples could plausibly be attributed to poor diet, lack of exercise and pollution by toxins.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» We are totally overpopulated -- procreation is KILLING US!!
Posted by: janvdb
» Sacred event? Laughing and crying at the same time!
Posted by: veggiegrrrl
» RE: Sacred event? Laughing and crying at the same time!
Posted by: pomes
» RE: We are totally overpopulated -- procreation is KILLING US!!
Posted by: cmaciain
» RE: We are totally overpopulated -- reduce world population NOW!!
Posted by: truthteller
» RE: We are totally overpopulated -- reduce world population NOW!!
Posted by: Pat Kittle
» RE: Procreation is our only purppose
Posted by: mr. joshua
» Sorry, forget the capitalists-- if you oppose "having babies" YOU are "anti-human"
Posted by: chief of okeefe
» Your fear of being a "dead-end" reveals your own tiny-minded selfishness, chiefie-boy!
Posted by: Pat Kittle
» The "reasonable middle ground" here seems obvious...
Posted by: mjabele
» You meant well, but breeding a babysitter is morally ambiguous.
Posted by: Pat Kittle
» RE: You meant well, but breeding a babysitter is morally ambiguous.
Posted by: mjabele
» RE: Procreation is our only purppose
Posted by: Kap25
» RE: Procreation is our only purppose
Posted by: armybrat8
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Louise laPlante on Feb 20, 2007 7:17 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Louise la Plante
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Disturbing
Posted by: db
» RE: Disturbing
Posted by: babs
» RE: Disturbing
Posted by: Annarisse
» RE: Disturbing
Posted by: Louise laPlante
» RE: Disturbing
Posted by: Louise laPlante
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Ellie1 on Feb 20, 2007 7:34 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: So this is news?
Posted by: divanne
» RE: So this is news?
Posted by: metrognome0
Comments are closed-
Posted by: natasha42 on Feb 20, 2007 7:38 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I find this article to be like so many I have seen in recent weeks: author picks a peeve and makes it into a national-level problem. I don't know of a single person who became a parent just to jump on some bandwagon - "Oh, Britney looked sooo cute in that jumper, I simply must get pregnant so I can wear it before the season's over!" Another article on how shallow women are, they can't even have babies without some celebrity role model to inspire them, complete with insipid "advice" on better decision-making.
When I was pregnant six years ago, only six years ago, maternity fashion was crap, especially if you were plus-size. It was depressing getting dressed in the last trimester, everything was dumpy and bland. Being able to make yourself look nice can go a long way toward helping yourself feel good each day. I am glad that there is enough interest in maternity fashion that corporations like The Gap/Old Navy (same thing I know) have starting making maternity clothes that look and feel good. (Not to mention nursing-wear that allows a mom to breastfeed in public without having to throw a stifling blanket over her baby.)
And BTW, most women who choose to breastfeed have easy access to a lactation consultant, through their local hospital, health department, or la leche league. A lactation consultant is not like having a personal chef or trainer.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: the luxury of trends
Posted by: mr. joshua
Comments are closed-
Posted by: janvdb on Feb 20, 2007 7:48 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The rest of us are conoodled into miserable experiences in our attempts to imitate them, just like men who work 80 hours a week, take business risks and lose it all and/or pile on debt in order to imitate the lifestyles of those who make 10X as much money.
The wives of the richest 5% are well-positioned to live out this Martha Stewart fantasy of the "well-loved woman" who makes her living entirely by being female female female all day long. Sexy, cute, loveable -- that's the way to make money.
The rest of us are reduced to making ourselves useful.
What a drag.
The dirty little secret in all this: even the wives of the very very rich do not have SECURITY. They can be unilaterally divorced in a trice and plunged into the hell of low living standards, worry over bills, overwork, lack of support, no family leave, poor schools and bad daycare like the "rest of the world."
It can happen any day of the week and these anxious women know it very well. That explains the Prozac, the Zoloft, the botox, etc etc etc. These women are working very very hard to keep the wolf from their door; it's the easy life on a trapeze wire with no net.
So, yes, there are women out there who do "live the female fantasy" and just as men are tormented with images of the huge boats, huge homes, luxurious cars and glamourous women being enjoyed by the top 5% (and drawn into overwork and debt reaching for that), women are tormented by images of the pampered pregnancies, stay-at-home luxury, the huge SUVs, the nannies, the muraled nurseries, the doting husbands, the ballet-classed, ski-classed, everything-classed, uber-children of the top 5% (and drawn into pregnancy, loss of career, debt and overwork reaching for that.)
It is all about flashing the markers of upper-class life before our middle-class faces and watching us screw up in ways which make corporations money in our attempts to realize livestyles which are out of wack with our actual pocketbooks. We overwork, we overspend and we overborrow.
This enslaves women to the marriage and enslaves men and women to our jobs.
The discards and debris of the system are the women and children who are divorced midstream and plunged onto TANF, Section 8 and foodstamps, no jobskills, part-time lowpaying work and bad daycare.
We give up any chance at gaining financial control and freedom. We give up a shot at a sane, stable, financially intact lifestyle with leisure and freedom from striving.
Forget independence from the treadmill. Forget gaining some bargaining power with the boss. Forget quitting that highpaying job. Forget financial security. Forget walking out on the husband when we don't get respect. We are in hawk up to our eyeballs with expensive playthings we thought would make us upper-class -- big homes, big cars, expensive children.
That what this is all about. Class. Striving for lifestyles we cannot afford and losing our independence from the corporate treadmill in the process.
Women are encouraged to have children whose costs make the women totally dependent on their husbands, who are in turn working 80 hours a week for The Man.
All because we chase a delusion, an illusion of wealth we just don't have and we buy things we just can't afford, the baby the most expensive among them.
Give it up. Get self-employed. Get assets. Get yourself into a position to tell them all to go fly a kite and when they call you "unfulfilled" because you haven't popped that kid, remember "they" are selling sugarcoated poison -- for a reason.
They want to enslave us all. So they can get into the top 5% themselves.
Jan VanDenBerg
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: It's about class and money
Posted by: MartianBachelor
» The huge alimony awards are only for the upper 5% only
Posted by: janvdb
» I guess I'm left wondering, Jan...
Posted by: mjabele
» RE: I guess I'm left wondering, Jan...
Posted by: janvdb
» RE: I guess I'm left wondering, Jan...
Posted by: janvdb
» RE: I guess I'm left wondering, Jan...
Posted by: mjabele
Comments are closed-
Posted by: pinget on Feb 20, 2007 8:15 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Idiocracy
Posted by: MartianBachelor
» RE: Idiocracy
Posted by: veggiegrrrl
» RE: Idiocracy
Posted by: babs
» RE: But think of the gene pool
Posted by: pdxstudent
» RE: But think of the gene pool
Posted by: janvdb
» RE: But think of the gene pool
Posted by: armybrat8
Comments are closed-
Posted by: willymack on Feb 20, 2007 8:25 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Money pit
Posted by: babs
» EXACTLY! It's all about $$$$$
Posted by: nowfifty
Comments are closed-
Posted by: deBeauxOs on Feb 20, 2007 8:36 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Children have been the target of consumer-driven Big Businesses for years and now so are pregnant women. It's all about making money off the backs of pregnant women, targeting those who have the disposable income with a gadzillion un-necessary goods and services, including Cesaeran removal. It barely qualifies as a birth, does it?
For more trenchant observations about the glamming of pregnancy and its flip side, the religious and political fetishizing of the fetus, check out Birth Pangs: linked text = here.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: pomes on Feb 20, 2007 8:41 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This self-centered mentality, by the way, is the REASON we live in a world full of war, terrorism and hate. The only solution we have is to raise the next generation to think of each other, not only themselves. This generation and the one that came before it (if not those that came before), in my opinion, are already pretty hopelessly compromised. To those screaming for more health care, for better paying jobs (or better paying welfare), for more status, etc... I can't say I disagree with you that we live in a selfish and unfair world, but ask yourself, what are YOU truly willing to give to those who have less than YOU? This mentality goes all the way up and down the social strata, and the people at the top could not perpetuate their power if there weren't so many at the bottom who are of the same mentality.
If you've grown up, if you recognize that life is give and take, if you have learned that taking care of and giving of yourself to those you love is life's greatest joy instead of a burden, you are on the right track to understand why so many men and women love their children and love being parents.
You don't need an excuse not to have children. It is your life. However, there is no need to belittle parents simply because you cannot fathom that level of maturity and responsibility.
That being said, in respons to the article itself, there is no ideal that corporate America won't whore out to make a buck, and this is no exception unfortunately. I can't call it a conspiracy because they don't hide their motives.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Do not have children until you are grown up mentally
Posted by: PopRox80
» RE: Do not have children until you are grown up mentally
Posted by: pomes
» RE: Do not have children until you are grown up mentally
Posted by: PopRox80
» The logical solution for mature child-wanters who are aware of deep overpopulation shit
Posted by: lucindawick
» RE: Do not have children until you are grown up mentally
Posted by: cmaciain
» RE: Do not have children until you are grown up mentally
Posted by: pomes
» RE: Do not have children until you are grown up mentally
Posted by: PopRox80
» RE: Do not have children until you are grown up mentally -- Well said.
Posted by: Pat Kittle
Comments are closed-
Posted by: AdamSelene40 on Feb 20, 2007 9:12 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
... benumbed, isolated, fatigued, depressed -- but never 'bored.'
And if the kids don't turn out 'perfect '... why then it's MOTHER's fault.
Slap that bitch !
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: missepic on Feb 20, 2007 9:16 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If anything, I believe that having children will teach me a lesson that I would have difficulty learning otherwise: to be truly unselfish.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Why so grumpy about motherhood?
Posted by: pomes
» RE: Why so grumpy about motherhood?
Posted by: babs
» Having a child is a supremely selfish act
Posted by: janvdb
» Having a child is a supremely selfish act
Posted by: mjabele
» "mjabele" - why, you're the doctor who said he'd like to kill me! Should I reference that?
Posted by: Pat Kittle
» Feel free, Pat...
Posted by: mjabele
» RE: Feel free, Pat... Here you are, doc -- and please, try to conduct yourself with more decorum.
Posted by: Pat Kittle
» I'll let your post about "genocidal Mexicans" speak for itself...
Posted by: mjabele
» I let "genocidal Mexicans" speak for themselves -- what part of "killing gringos" don't you get?
Posted by: Pat Kittle
» RE: I let "genocidal Mexicans" speak for themselves -- what part of "killing gringos" don't you get?
Posted by: mjabele
Comments are closed-
Posted by: lindaj823 on Feb 20, 2007 9:34 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
1) While it’s hard not to be affected by the media blitz on celebrity moms and the latest expensive gadgets, the women who would care enough to pay attention are those who were into celebrity & consumerism to begin with. There are a vast number of women who do not live their lives waiting for the latest installment of these stories. And there are those whose life circumstances make celebrity lifestyles and conspicuous consumption irrelevant. Let’s give women some credit for the common sense to know that motherhood, like everything else in life, comes with highs & lows, pros & cons. What helps the most is real, honest, open, uncritical dialogue among women and mothers; dialogue that addresses their real experiences, their worries & joys, their challenges & successes, their disappointments & fulfilling moments. We can reduce our anxiety about the unknown, learn more about normal child development, learn about parenting styles and values, and support each other’s efforts. We hear what has worked for others and can pick those concepts that fit our lives and values. Over 30 years ago, a group of women designed just such a program that is going strong today. MothersCenter
2) The US is woefully behind most other countries in the concrete supports in place for mothers, fathers and families. We are one of only 4 industrialized countries that does not offer paid family leave - the other 3 are Lesotho, Papua New Guinea & Swaziland. It is still perfectly legal to discriminate against mothers in the hiring process in 27 states. For these and other reasons, the circumstances under which women do their mothering are far less than optimal and the so-called “choices” they have impact very heavily on their financial health. It has been said that in the US motherhood is the biggest risk factor for poverty in old age. Shame on us. As a result, many mothers, women and men are working for change. MOTHERS Initiative. A new report Work, Family & Equity Index: How the US Measures Up compares the US to other countries and is available at McGill Univ.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: dame on Feb 20, 2007 9:36 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: veggiegrrrl on Feb 20, 2007 9:45 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Here's the message: breed, whitey, breed.
Or should I rephrase this: breed, white anglo saxon Christians, breed.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Breed, Whitey, Breed (well, not you Jews...)
Posted by: pomes
» It's the rich most of all who should stop breeding
Posted by: janvdb
» Not sure I agree with that...
Posted by: mjabele
» RE: Not sure I agree with that... Immigration means US is fastest-growing "western" country.
Posted by: Pat Kittle
» I've little doubt, Pat.....
Posted by: mjabele
» RE: I've little doubt, Pat.... We've been through all this, and you just play dumb.
Posted by: Pat Kittle
» RE: I've little doubt, Pat.... We've been through all this, and you just play dumb.
Posted by: mjabele
» OK, you didn't say you're afraid of "gangs" -- you said "housing projects and drug dealers."
Posted by: Pat Kittle
» Where did you slander "every kind of immigration control"? Well, what kind do you approve of?
Posted by: Pat Kittle
» Well, what kind do you approve of...?
Posted by: mjabele
» RE: Well, what kind do you approve of...? -- Ooooh, I am a fascist? Bad diagnosis, doc!
Posted by: Pat Kittle
» "Mandatory sterilization" of non-consenting "breeders" is not to be considered "fascism"...?
Posted by: mjabele
» RE: Breed, Whitey, Breed (well, not you Jews...)
Posted by: pomes
» RE: Breed, Whitey, Breed (well, not you Jews...) -- Yawn, another knee-jerk liberal...
Posted by: Pat Kittle
Comments are closed-
Posted by: lucindawick on Feb 20, 2007 11:17 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» Opps. My response below was intended to be here.
Posted by: Sojourner
Comments are closed-
Posted by: angrygirl10 on Feb 20, 2007 11:31 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Grow Up!
Posted by: meacoleman
Comments are closed-
Posted by: AmyB on Feb 20, 2007 11:45 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As a flaming liberal, I think what is realy wrong with commercialization is that it promotes the idea that the best part of parenthood is getting to buy clothes and gadgets (i.e., not experiencing children as part of a family but buying them stuff).
I guess it just seems extremely odd to me that people with a "conservative" ideology (i.e. women's lives should be limited to home and child-rearing, and if they aren't happy doing that it's because they are bad people) would get so angry at the suggestion that that motherhood is not always fun that they are actually advocating violence in suport the apalling notion that it's OK to replace parental time and affection with a shopping list.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Odd "conservative" points of view
Posted by: off-the-radar 2
Comments are closed-
Posted by: aouie01 on Feb 20, 2007 11:48 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Some points:
> It would be good for potential parents / child-free individuals to learn about all the pros and cons of parenting. Hopefully much earlier on, people can learn "good" ways to process information towards making "good" decisions (part of which will hopefully involve critical thinking).
> The negatives of child rearing also applies to adopted children. But, keep in mind that adoption by "good" adopters may lead to a better life for the adoptee.
> Society tends to pressure people to raise children in certain specific ways that may adversely affects their personal lives a lot more than is necessary to raise reasonably healthy children.
> If children were raised in a communal atmosphere, individual parents could have more of their lives free from routine child rearing tasks by taking turns caring for multiple children. Older children could also help to varying degrees.
> If and when child rearing becomes a relatively simple part of living a good life (once again), then hopefully more people will avoid (unresonably) treating single parents as undesirable for romantic involvement (I recognize it is difficult and I think I am somewhat unreasonable about this too). May be if there was less social pressure to ensure single parents treat romantic interests as secondary to their children then that would help (this doesn't mean that one ignores responsibilities (e.g. a meow or bark that indicates distress may be enough reason to interrupt sex with a romantic interest, and if done sensitively enough, the interruption is unlikely to make an understanding romantic interest feel unduly neglected)).
> There were more points, I wanted to make, but ... I have a routine and mundane but enjoyable task to tend to ... the responsibility of feeding me as reminded by my growling tummy (funny / amusing and true).
Sincerely,
Aouie
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» Amen about that communal atmosphere
Posted by: Beck
Comments are closed-
Posted by: mindcryme on Feb 20, 2007 12:03 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"However, turning something as life-changing as motherhood into a trend is, at best, misleading and, at worst, totally irresponsible. Some women, drawn in by the trend, become completely disillusioned when they realize that motherhood isn't always as delightful as donning the latest offerings from the runways of Paris (or the cheap runway imitations)."
A) is there a shred of data showing women are being "drawn in [to get pregnant] by the trend" of hip maternity fashionware? if that is the case, that is sad.
B) is there a shred of evidence showing women who were drawn in to getting pregnant by the clothing posters in shop windows are becoming "completely disillusioned" after making their choice?
This article sounds preposterous! The implications of this article are that women are drooling idiots!! Is that *really* what you want to tell readers?
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Ludicrous
Posted by: babs
» RE: Ludicrous
Posted by: mindcryme
Comments are closed-
Posted by: benter on Feb 20, 2007 12:35 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: wisewebwoman on Feb 20, 2007 1:00 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
IF YOU HAD TO DO IT ALL OVER AGAIN, WOULD YOU, WAS IT WORTH IT?
And 80% answered a big NO.
On this forum today I don't see anyone address the question of accidental pregnancies. Our primitive biological reproductive hormones take us women over in our early twenties and are pretty relentless in their savage urge.
Most women friends of my generation, in the absence of birth control then but also in the overwhelming desire to reproduce would classify our pregnancies as 'accidental'.
Some of us struggled in the dawn of the age of the working mother. Nothing ever prepared us for the juggling of constant demands of employers and children and finding daycare. None of us had dream marriages with a fully participating husband.
Being around children IS boring for some and it has nothing to do with intellect or career aspirations. I've seen female vice-presidents hang out with their toddlers all weekend and never get bored. I've seen stay at home moms hit the gin in the afternoon.
The thing is we can't predict our maternal behaviour until we've actually brought forth the child.
And for some it does have rewards. For others, like me, it can be devastating in its pain and disappointment.
But to make it a fashion statement takes it beyond the bounds of anything I've known. It reminds me of picking up a puppy at the humane society and discarding it, as some do, in a few weeks when it becomes larger and untrainable.
And yes, our tiny planet has burst at the seams. Why on earth do we continue to breed like there is a future for the unfortunate infant?
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Beck on Feb 20, 2007 1:24 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: hard slap, no; hard kick, maybe... so you advocate violence yourself?
Posted by: Pat Kittle
Comments are closed-
Posted by: JoshuaLudd on Feb 20, 2007 1:36 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Same old game..
Posted by: off-the-radar 2
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Joycelyn on Feb 20, 2007 1:43 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
None of the teens who had been in that Sunday school class had a baby before the age of 25.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: youngdem on Feb 20, 2007 2:00 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As for trendy baby goods, they've always been around to some extent. Hopefully most people will exercise a modicum of common sense and realize that designer baby goods smell just as bad as moderately priced ones after a spit-up or diaper leak. But, as always, some won't, or are status-conscious enough that they'll fork over the extra money anyway.
There will be babies and pregnancy for as long as humanity as we know it continues to exist. And as long as capitalism continues to exist, someone will try to make money off of it.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Eln on Feb 20, 2007 2:01 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Anne Gilbert
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: This is old
Posted by: mindcryme
» RE: This is old
Posted by: mr. joshua
» RE: This is old - Nice thoughts, but this is already a healthy discussion.
Posted by: Pat Kittle
Comments are closed-
Posted by: wireup on Feb 20, 2007 3:51 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Well, I never did. I wouldn't bring a child into this sick, insane, and over-populated world if you gave me a million dollars.
And not for one little second do I regret never having had children. It's the best decision I ever made.
For most of the 1980s I owned a health food store. I often got into discussions with my customers, many of whom were women, and I canNOT tell you how many of them told me that, if they had been able to live their lives over again, they would NEVER have had children!
Motherhood is NOT for everyone - just because you can biologically have a kid, doesn't mean you SHOULD have a kid. Sometimes I think that if half the women in this world refused to have children, our planet would be a better place to live.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Never had a kid and NO REGRETS! -- 10th grade? Me too!
Posted by: Pat Kittle
» i had my tubes tied when i was 21.
Posted by: veggiegrrrl
» We know, veggiegrrrl - you never cease to remind us.....
Posted by: mjabele
» RE: We know, veggiegrrrl - you never cease to remind us..... maybe we need reminding.
Posted by: Pat Kittle
» What taboo...?
Posted by: mjabele
» RE: What taboo...? -- The overpopulation taboo, doc, remember?
Posted by: Pat Kittle
» RE: What taboo...? -- The overpopulation taboo, doc, remember?
Posted by: mjabele
» RE: What taboo...? -- The overpopulation taboo, doc, remember?
Posted by: Pat Kittle
» RE: What taboo...? -- The overpopulation taboo, doc, remember?
Posted by: mjabele
» Eeeeaaaasy does it, doc... those aren't swastikas... there, there, there...
Posted by: Pat Kittle
» Actually, my questions to you about "mandatory sterilization" were posed with seething amusement...
Posted by: mjabele
» RE: We know, veggiegrrrl - you never cease to remind us..... VIVA La CHOICE!
Posted by: maribelle
» 21? Wow. Your foresight is welcome
Posted by: Torgo
» World better if 50% refused to have children? Why not go for 100% ??
Posted by: chief of okeefe
» What makes you think everyone is as terrified of death as much as you are?
Posted by: Pat Kittle
» What an utterly STUPID thing to say!
Posted by: wireup
» RE: What an utterly STUPID thing to say! :-) nm
Posted by: Pat Kittle
Comments are closed-
Posted by: metrognome0 on Feb 20, 2007 4:00 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Almost everyone who has posted a comment has misunderstood the intent of this article. It's not about attacking mothers. It's not about stupidity or overpopulation. For all you women (and men) who feel as though this article is an insult to you, please realize that this article isn't about mothers...or non-mothers. All these comments, however well-meaning, have nothing to do with this article.
The article is about the fact that corporate america acting in an irresponsible manner. These companies (and those who lead them) are promoting and supporting a culture of ignorance and irresponsibility. They are doing so in what is easily the most important decision anyone could ever make.
Sure, misleading advertizing is nothing new. But, that doesn't make it o.k. And, with regards to parenthood, it's totally irresponsible.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: settle down and re-read *Who says they read it the first time?*
Posted by: maribelle
» RE: settle down and re-read *Who says they read it the first time?*
Posted by: off-the-radar 2
Comments are closed-
Posted by: VagusDoc on Feb 20, 2007 4:03 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Trend? -- No need for fine distinctions, right?
Posted by: Pat Kittle
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Her Bad Mother on Feb 20, 2007 4:21 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
With the possible sad exceptions of - I imagine - a very few very impressionable young women, is there really any evidence for the claim that pretty diaper bags and the example of Heidi Klum are convincing women to have babies? REALLY? Or that many new mothers are bored or frustrated to the point of *regretting* their decision to have children? Would send them back, like a regretted purchase? Please.
My response, HERE.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: brotherjonah on Feb 20, 2007 4:25 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
For as long as I can remember, and apparently for generations back, girls were groomed for eventually becoming mothers.
They are (now, it used to be religiously forbidden) given baby dolls, they are assigned to babysitting as soon as they are big enough to change a diaper and articulate enough to call for help if things get out of hand.
But i think what has happened is the idea that there is this HUGE market that hasn't yet been exploited, making clothes for pregnant women that don't look like a couple of oversized bags sewn together.
Quite naturally the Exploiters are going to jump on it like a pack of starving wolves on a pork chop.
Shoot, they smell money where there is none,.... yet...
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Pat Kittle on Feb 20, 2007 5:07 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Cutesy clothes wouldn't change that.
No offense!
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Sojourner on Feb 20, 2007 5:53 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I know mothers who love having babies. I know mothers for whom it is life's greatest punishment. So knowing what you want and can handle (willing to accept responsibility for, whether or not) is what life is all about to begin with, no? In what area of living is that not the case? Duh uh.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» This was intended as a tag on lucindawick's comment upthread
Posted by: Sojourner
Comments are closed-
Posted by: chief of okeefe on Feb 20, 2007 6:19 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
However, if you are really actually married to a man, then talk to him and if he is willing to do what he can, then maybe you can give it your next 20 years. Speaking for the man, he cannot cary it for you, but if he is willing to wake up at 2am and run a croupy 2-yr-old to the emergency room, if he is willing to spend the weekend out of town with his kid's travel ball team, if he is willing to sweat and sacrifice with you, then do it.
Again, if you are not married, forget it. It is a dreadful nightmare experience. Just don't do it!! No more bastard children please.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: xgroverx on Feb 20, 2007 6:48 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
On another note, I feel this article ignores those mothers who do not have the financial resources to afford the latest maternity fashions or designer cribs. While upper-middle class suburban women who have children to fit in with the other suburban soccer moms, buying into the trend of a fashionable motherhood, do contribute to a growing population of unwanted children, poor and working poor mothers who are uneducated of the serious responsibilities of being a parent and who do not have access to affordable birth control contribute far more. Our focus should be on making family planning education and contraceptives more accessible to lower class potential mothers, not on saving spoiled soccer moms from the latest marketing trend.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: education and access to birth control
Posted by: xgroverx
Comments are closed-
Posted by: dkm on Feb 20, 2007 7:06 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Callibrarian on Feb 20, 2007 9:29 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: spencerh on Feb 20, 2007 11:51 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Remember, breeding is a lifestyle choice. You can choose to be Childfree.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: umm..but...
Posted by: metrognome0
Comments are closed-
Posted by: dklee on Feb 21, 2007 9:21 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The big shocker came when we came home--lack of sleep left me almost hallucinogegenic. I had a few weeks of severe baby blues that left me crying and thinking that I had made a huge mistake. I breastfed at the beginnig and had cracked, bleeding, and sore nipples. My daughter seemed to want to be on my breast 24/7, and though I know this is normal in a newborn, the resulting immobility drove me nuts.
We have fallen into a more stable pattern. I quit breastfeeding, which left me feeling very guilty. My daughter is happy, healthy, and loved, however I still get resentful when she refuses to nap and I cannot take a shower, have some lunch, or clean the house.
I have found myself watching the clock so I can have a glass of wine at a "decent" hour. Ironically, the baby sleeps better in restaurants, so I spend more time dragging friends out so I can linger over margaritas while she sleeps. And now she wakes from another catnap while I have not finished this posting, but I must stop to tend to her...
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» Re: Mommyhood IS hard
Posted by: Callibrarian
» RE: e: Mommyhood IS hard - a life altering event.
Posted by: Aimee
Comments are closed-
Posted by: reallygonecat on Feb 21, 2007 11:32 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: jessicawakeman on Feb 21, 2007 12:34 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Motherhood is not "hot" right now, nor has it every been particularly "hot" in the past or will it be "hot" in the future. There will always been starlets who gush to magazines about their babies upon babies upon babies (Angelina Jolie is the new Mia Farrow). But there will also always be starlets - and politicians and musicians and whatnot - who have NO interest in babies. In fact, I would argue that with the advent of the Internet, childless people are much more visible. (You'd have to ask childless people whether society is getting more accepting.)
I think what the author means is that motherhood is "hot" in the sense that preggers actresses all over the celebrity glossies right now. But celecbrity glossies are all over *everything* these women do; that's why two of them have checked into rehab in the past month. Whether its clubbing, giving birth, shopping, marrying, dancing on tables - anything and everything they do is fetished.
The author is right about the corporate-ization of motherhood. But guess what? That's what corporations are *supposed* to do: sell baby products to moms (and dads). This has been the case forever, but particularly post-WWII. Its Women's Studies 101: women are the primary purchasers for the home so Madison Avenue makes women feel insecure about themselves so they buy their way into a false sense of security.
Icky, yes, but it doesn't mean marketing products towards moms is anything new, or endemic of the supposed fetishization of motherhood. The area where all this motherhood meets capitalism stuff gets dicey - where I feel concern, and I assume the author feels concern as well - is when products are marketed as, "You need XYZ in order to be a good mother. Without it, you are a bad mom!" I believe there was an article in The New Yorker, possibly written by Caitlin Flanagan but I don't remember, a few years ago, on this very topic.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Cathyc on Feb 21, 2007 3:34 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: juno j on Feb 21, 2007 6:07 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: armybrat8 on Feb 23, 2007 12:58 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They didn't get their information from commercials, but from sitting around a table with other women, many with fussy babes in arms, and hearing about the travails of childbirth and childrearing. The fussy babes would be passed around for all to admire and to give Mom a chance to breathe. Of course, most women had no say in the matter of whether or not they would become mothers. But they at least had some knowledge of what they were getting into.
Our society is very weird in that a woman can have a baby and honestly not know what to do with it. It is tragic that women try to raise their children without the support and help of at least one other female relative or close family friend. Why have we become so isolated from our families? We only hurt ourselves.
My youngest brother was born when I was 15, so I had a lot of the responsibility for his care. And why not? My mother'd done so much raising me and my other brother. She deserved some help, and I love the little darling brat dearly, so I didn't mind in the least. ;) It was just natural, but maybe that's because part of my heritage is Mexican and therefore more traditional. I can't WAIT to have children of my own. I think it will be my greatest accomplishment.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Marcy on Feb 27, 2007 11:50 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
My Experience with a Psychedelic Plant That Thousands Have Used for Release from Severe Addictions
Is Using a Checklist the Answer to All Your Problems?
On Anniversary of Iraq Invasion, Time to Rethink Anti-War Activism




