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MoveOn Calls Out McCain on His Iraq Flip-Flops

By Joshua Holland, AlterNet. Posted January 17, 2007.


Public record reveals what the media haven't about McCain: He's been flip-flopping on Iraq since before the first war. First he said he could "not even contemplate" the bloodshed. Now he says more troops should "do the trick."
01172006story

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This week, the progressive advocacy group MoveOn.org is trying to break up an epic love affair -- a passionate, committed seven-year relationship with all the romance of the most syrupy of Hollywood date flicks.

The group is trying to drive a wedge between John McCain and a fawning media that's pumped out mountains of nonsense about what a straight-shooting, independent-minded and, above all else, moderate voice McCain has been in the U.S. Senate.

Actually, they're stepping around the intertwined lovers, with a $275,000 ad buy in New Hampshire and Iowa that will bring the case straight to the American people that the War in Iraq -- and Bush's latest attempt to escalate it -- has McCain's fingerprints all over it [VIDEO].

John McCain's been all over the map when it comes to Iraq for a long time. Cliff Schecter notes that way back in 1990, two and a half weeks after Iraq had invaded Kuwait, McCain said that Americans shouldn't support a ground war in the Middle East because "we cannot even contemplate, in my view, trading American blood for Iraqi blood." Less than two months later, though, McCain not only contemplated the possibility, he voted to go to war on behalf of Kuwait.

As the war drums sounded for the current fiasco, McCain, echoing Dick Cheney and the administration's legion of half-baked neocons, promised a cakewalk. In September of 2002, he warned us that there might be a few casualties: "As successful as I believe we will be, and I believe that the success will be fairly easy, we will still lose some American young men or women." That same month, he told CNN, "We're not going to get into house-to-house fighting in Baghdad … we're not going to have a bloodletting of trading American bodies for Iraqi bodies." And in early 2003, he promised viewers of MCNBC, "We will win this conflict. We will win it easily."

This month, though, he told MSNBC that he knew all along the Iraq war was "probably going to be long and hard and tough," and that he was "sorry" for those who voted for the war believing it would be "some kind of an easy task." "Maybe they didn't know what they were voting for," he said.

In October, John McCain was just as sure that 20,000 more U.S. troops would do the trick in Iraq -- bringing about stability, democracy and prosperity, and restoring America's image in the world (or something) -- as he had been about the ease with which it would be prosecuted in 2003. When reporters asked him to elaborate on his statement about the need for more combat troops in Iraq to quell a "classic insurgency," McCain said: "Another 20,000 troops in Iraq, but that means expanding the Army and the Marine Corps."

In November, McCain said again: "I believe victory is still attainable," adding: "But without additional combat forces, we will not win this war."

That prompted Robert Reich to pen a column in which he wrote: "McCain gives every impression of meaning what he says, which is one of his greatest assets." But after speaking with the senator, Reich said he "simply can't believe this one":


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Joshua Holland is an AlterNet staff writer.

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no respect
Posted by: malaparte on Jan 17, 2007 3:30 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Lot all respect for Mccain when Bush stapped him in the back in the 2000 primary-some b.s. about his wife, and McCain went on to support the outpatient. Plus going to Fallwell and all the other reactionary places has put him over the edge.

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» RE: no respect Posted by: Robert Veasey
» RE: no respect Posted by: JessB
» RE: no respect Posted by: sasquuatch55
» RE: no respect Posted by: Robert Veasey
I don't get McCain
Posted by: thethink on Jan 17, 2007 4:28 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I studied abroad in Vietnam for quite some time, and took the time to visit the spot where McCain had been shot down during the Vietnam War. It is absolutely mind boggling that a man who probably had some pretty unmentionable things happen to him in the debacle of the 20th century would ever support troop escalation. It's sickening, really.

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» RE: Exactly Posted by: Ripcord
» RE: You're wrong. Posted by: Ripcord
» RE: Elie Weisel Posted by: Ripcord
» RE: I don't get McCain Posted by: Robert Veasey
McCain another Kerry
Posted by: Democritus on Jan 17, 2007 5:11 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You would have thought that with McCain's military background, and with his long incarceration in a North Vietnamese prison, he could spearhead a popular movement to extricate us from Iraq. But, like John Kerry, in 2004, he wants it both ways--both saying we shouldn't be there and also saying we can run the war smarter. Since his election defeat, Kerry has gotten the message that this fence straddling won't fly. McCain doesn't get it. Neither will he get the presidential nomination his posturing seems to be aiming for.

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» RE: McCain another Kerry Posted by: CatDad
» RE: McCain not dishonorable. Posted by: Ripcord
» RE: McCain another Kerry Posted by: Robert Veasey
» RE: McCain another Kerry Posted by: JessB
I hadn't heard
Posted by: chaoslegs on Jan 17, 2007 6:59 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
About Edwards calling it the McCain doctrine. That is great! Now if the rest of the 'centrist' Dems showed a spine and fought against this escalation harder.

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Terrytom
Posted by: terryton on Jan 17, 2007 7:07 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I love these statement reminders and thank the authors generously. The American public memory is short and in denial.
Something must happen to decent people when they are elected and live in DC for a long while. Perhaps they are surgically altered or brainwashed in some way.
For me McCain lost most of his credibility when after he was slandered and abused in his 2000 presidential effort. He seemed to forgive and continued to speak the criminal party line with new fervor. He really blew it when he began giving head to Fallwell and company.
He seems to have no real personal values and surly no real humanist values. If he is a model of our best we are surly lost.

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JOHN WHO ?
Posted by: VZEQICVA on Jan 17, 2007 7:08 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
McCain's days in the sun are over. I can't believe I'm saying that. Over time he deteriorates and seems less appealing as a leader. When he lost the nomination to Bush and didn't put up a fight it seemed out of character. Truth is, he is not a maverick. He makes noises early on and then goes right along with Bush. This is not a time to be a Bush Boy and hope to win the approval of the American public. Most of us don't like GWB. Isn't that obvious to McCain? Thanks, ANNA

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» RE: JOHN WHO ? Posted by: Robert Veasey
frank67
Posted by: frank67 on Jan 17, 2007 7:37 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
John McCain has never been any good. Not only does he talk out of both sides of mouth at the same time, he is also one of the infamous "Keating Five" of the Savings & Loan fiasco.

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Time To Ask Yourself The Unthinkable About McCain...
Posted by: Carl Street on Jan 17, 2007 7:55 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Do we REALLY know McCain is a Vietnam Vet and/or POW?

Sounds insane, but, the truth is we ONLY know what we have been told. And we DO know that we are often told lies -- big lies; lies so outrageous that at the time it seems impossible that they are not true.

This is the Hitler propaganda technique personified -- "if you say something so absolutely outrageous; people naturally assume it must be true for they believe, quite naturally, that no one would tell such a lie..."

For all we know McCain is NOT even a Vietnam veteran; much less a former POW. Unfortunately, we live in times and with a government that makes ANY assumption regarding the truth of what we are told to be risky; and the wise person questions ALL and accepts NONE.

In these times the honest person is at a distinct disadvantage -- most of us limit our untruths to telling telemarketers we already own a product, etc. but since we NEVER would tell huge, damaging lies, we make the misguided assumption that others also would not. AND, that is just the state of mind the PIPS (People In Power) are counting on to get away with their lies.

It only stands to reason that people who would not hesitate for a minute to engage in mass killing on an industrial scale and risk the existence of the entire human race to make a buck would have absolutely NO hesitation to tell lies on an industrial scale as well -- especially since they control the records, sources of information; threaten and kill those who do not go along; as well as the mass media.

The truth is I do NOT REALLY know McCain is a Vietnam Vet and/or POW; and neither do you. NOT even his family REALLY knows; any letters he wrote could easily have been faked and he could have been sunning himself in some CIA resort during his "POW" Days.

Witnesses??? Do you mean fellow "POW's" who could easily have been at that SAME resort??

Military records??? Do you mean those same military records that gave us the "Gulf of Tonkin Incident"??? Or those military records that gave us "Weapons of Mass Destruction In Iraq"???

At a minimum we must confront the fact that McCain is a roper -- a person who is used to compromise and mislead the public on a grand scale. I find it hard to believe that anyone who purports to be what McCain claims to be would advocate putting American Service Personnel at risk in "Iraq-nam".

So I feel it is my duty to ask, "What is wrong with this picture?" and personally I must adopt the Sherlock Holmes premise:

"When all other explanations have been elminated; what is left; no matter how unlikely; MUST be the truth."

And, based on that, I feel the probability that McCain claiming to be a Vietnam POW to be right up there with him claiming to be an alien abductee. I may NOT be right; but you must admit it iS a distinct possibility.

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McCain and Flip-Flopping
Posted by: Maddibee on Jan 17, 2007 8:09 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
McCain seems like a very odd guy ready to explode at a moment's notice. Perhaps he is still suffering from PTSD from Vietnam. He would, in my opinion, be a dangerous president -- similar to our current one.

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» RE: a mad indictment Posted by: Ripcord
Who's on the fence...
Posted by: Conservasaurus on Jan 17, 2007 8:14 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Edwards, Kerry, Kennedy and co have all jumped ship when it became apparent that the occupation wasn’t as “easy” as the invasion. Staying power isn’t their strong suit.

As for changing positions, Kerry is well known and has been criticized for altering his position to fit the situation numerous times – more so that McCain.

I think McCain is trying to maintain a sensible position for securing and attain the goal of a stable pro American Iraq.. The dems have all but bailed on that prospect.

Senators haul out excuses on war votes

Democrats who supported the war in Iraq before they opposed it have been explaining themselves lately, especially the ones with presidential ambitions.

John Kerry and John Edwards now say flat-out they were wrong to vote for the war - but for different reasons. Kerry says he was misled; Edwards said he made the mistake of trusting President Bush.

Others Democrats, including Sen. Bill Nelson of Florida, say had they known at the time Saddam Hussein did not possess weapons of mass destruction, they never would have voted for the resolution authorizing the president to use military force against Iraq.

Of course, no weapons of mass destruction were found in Iraq. But what if they had existed? Knowing how this war has turned out, would Nelson and other "we wuz had" Democrats argue that ridding Iraq of biological and chemical weapons was worth the price we have paid so far - more than 3,000 American soldiers killed, thousands more wounded, $400 billion in treasure and a more volatile Middle East?

It is a question you will not hear in the Great War Debate that erupted last week on Capitol Hill after Bush announced plans to send another 21,500 troops to Iraq to join the 132,000 already there. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice was blasted right and left when she came before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee to defend the latest twist in Bush's war strategy.

Nelson told Rice that the president's "surge" strategy compelled him to oppose the war he once supported. "I have not been told the truth," the senator said. "I have not been told the truth over and over again by administration witnesses, and the American people have not been told the truth."

Nelson didn't say which administration officials had misled him or how. Is he suggesting he was brainwashed? Florida's other senator at the time, Democrat Bob Graham, heard the same administration officials, read the same intelligence reports and voted against the war resolution. A few months ago, I asked Nelson if Graham knew something he didn't. Nelson suggested that Graham, a member of the Senate Intelligence Committee, had access to classified information he never saw.

The fact is, Graham did not oppose the war resolution because he didn't believe the Iraqi dictator had weapons of mass destruction. He didn't cite faulty intelligence reports or accuse the administration of misleading Congress.


"This Congress was elected with a mandate to end the disaster in Iraq," ----can also be interpreted as changing strategy’s to end it, not necessarily withdraw and leave it in a mess...

In November, McCain said again: "I believe victory is still attainable," adding: "But without additional combat forces, we will not win this war."

The decision to withdrawing becomes more of a means to get to what now makes sense to Iraq and the political situation in the area... If the increase in troops secures Iraq, and allows American troops to withdraw then that is a much more sensible strategy than just up and leaving. Dems do differ in this regard.. Some seem to want troops withdrawn to outlying areas – borders- which makes sense others just want out and I’m not sure they do so with regard for the implications on all involved!

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» RE: Who's on the fence... Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Who's on the fence... Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Who's on the fence... Posted by: ScottP
» RE: Who's on the fence... Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Who's on the fence... Posted by: Conservasaurus
As long as AIPAC runs this country, it aint gonna happen......
Posted by: Prophit on Jan 17, 2007 8:21 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This increase in troops was for two reasons.....

1. to change the conversation from "withdraw all US troops" to " stop the surge" which worked and let all the politicians off the hook... NOTICE, NOT ONE WORD ABOUT WITHDRAWING ALL TROOPS FROM IRAQ....

2. They need those troops for when Iran is attacked either by us or by Israel with our help, to keep Sadr under control with his 600,000 militia standing ready to retaliate.

They just won't tell you that is why..... its all part of manipulating the "conversation" and controlling it.... I hope moveon.org has made that point.

Some one needs to take on AIPAC. Otherwise we are a colony of Israel who supplies US human fodder to their wars of which I am thoroughly sick of happening.

They need to sit down and solve their problems in the Middle East with diplomacy, not nukes for the first time since 1945.

If they use nukes they are an irresponsible nuclear power for ever using them in an aggressive stance rather than a defensive one. If they do this then its right to condemn them for even having the damn things. Take them away from them. It will be the Israelis who are the danger to the world, rather than the arabs who have never used their nukes against anyone.

Any use they have will harm all of us and especially the 140,000 US troops stationed there. If they want to blow each other off the face of the earth, than fine..... SEND IT 140,000 ISRAELI TROOPS TO REPLACE THE US TROOPS AND THEN HAVE AT IT FOR ALL I CARE ANYMORE. JUST LEAVE US OUT OF IT AND GET US THE HELL OUT OF DODGE.

No oil for anyone if they do this since the area will be contaminated for 25,000 years. Water, soil, wildlife, plantlife will all go by the wayside into some mutated genetic weird stuff that humans can't drink or eat. you can tell I have had with them all.

Send the Bush girls to go with the Israeli troops.

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Failure?
Posted by: ScottP on Jan 17, 2007 8:21 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I don't understand why the war is repeatedly called a failure in the article. It has served numerous purposes as intended:
- mansions are being built by war profiteers from Palm Springs to Sun Valley to the south of France
- executive compensation is at record levels
- taxes on the richest have been almost eliminated
- a pesky foreign official who had the audacity to thumb his nose at his master is dead, making him a good example
- anti-trust prosecutions are history
- election systems have been taken over and only 10% of the adult population casts a ballot that can be audited for correctness
- environmental protection laws have been gutted
- alternative energy has been moved to the back burner
- the supreme court has swung to the right and no longer has a woman on it
- the corporate media has such control over public opinion that populist democratically elected leaders like Chavez are called villians and authoritarian regimes like Saudis are called heros by the man in the street

People were killed and a lot of money was spent on a war that didn't serve the public. So a few politicians will take the heat, and will cry about it all the way to the bank. Afterwards it's more golf with their robber baron buddies. How is that failure for them?

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» RE: Failure? Posted by: Gregor
Consider the source
Posted by: Suzen on Jan 17, 2007 8:26 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Anyone who has had terrible things happen to them knows that it takes a while and , often, a lot of work to work the feelings and memories of that experience into one's life. What we call PTSD is stuck memories and feelings that replay the pain over the top of regular life, creating distortion of perception in the present. It can happen even if we aren't aware of it or even if we are not diagnosed with some disorder. It's just the way people work.

John McCain has suffered things that most of us can't even imagine. I have enormous respect for him in having come through his experiences with some sanity. Knowing his history, however, I do not trust his responses , particularly in the area of war. How can anyone expect that he could possibly have a balanced response to the thing which disrupted his life from his soul to the bottoms of his feet? I believe the man has a great deal to offer as an example of strength and loyalty. He might do better sharing those things in another venue. I just can't find him credible in his present position.

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News?! We don't got to show you no stinkin' news!
Posted by: monkeywrench on Jan 17, 2007 8:40 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
From Robert Reich:
"McCain gives every impression of meaning what he says, which is one of his greatest assets."

All of the best liars are so because they manage to convince themselves as well as their victims of the truth of their statements. Senator McCain appears to belong in this group.

My real quibble, though, is with what we laughingly refer to as "news" organizations. They don't report news much anymore; what they give us are stories – bedtime stories, smarmy stories, boogyman stories, tearjerker stories – concocted out of the flimsiest of information. They slap up on the air "experts" who have little expertise in what they pontificate about, and often have not even examined the evidence of which they are so willing to express opinions. They beat the drums to sensationalize stories, like the Duke rape case, then endlessly speculate and try the case on TV – never minding that, without judge and jury, they are destroying the reputations of often innocent people.

"News" media divisions hand us ficticious "heros" like McCain because they are told to by their corporate bosses, who often have a vested interest in prolonging wars, and those who promote them, for the sake of the defense companies they ALSO own. Meanwhile, we are forced to watch endlessly repeated stories about babies, star breakups, panda bears, psychic dogs, three-headed chickens, and all other manner of useless crap if we want to get any news at all. With 24/7 "news" reporting on umpteen different network and cable channels, the average one-half hour news report of the 60's contained more REAL news than any five shows (and they are SHOWS) today.

For the life of me, I don't understand why any intelligent human being would watch 9/10ths of what now passes for "news." We cannot be as dumbed-down as the media thinks we are; it must be what a friend once told me: people will eat s**t if it's the only thing on the menu. It's time to send the slop back to the kitchen.

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bluemike
Posted by: BlueMike on Jan 17, 2007 10:20 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Have some pity on McCain, for God's sake! The man spent -- what? -- seven years in a POW camp. How can he not have Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder? How can his PTSD not be flaring, what with the daily ration of violence from Iraq? And how can his judgments about war not be colored by that?

That, I believe, explains his flip-flopping -- mental instability caused by war. Just like thousands and thousands of other vets, and just like the ones his own policies are about to brutalize?

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» RE: sympathy Posted by: CatDad
» RE: sympathy Posted by: BlueMike
» RE: sympathy Posted by: CatDad
The Presidency at Any Price
Posted by: NoPCZone on Jan 17, 2007 10:26 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The guy holds a very secure Senate seat and the clock is running. He knows 2008 will be his last shot an he apparently will sell his soul in order to get the G.O.P. nomination for President.

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McCain's Posturing
Posted by: hotlipsin61 on Jan 17, 2007 12:13 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
John McCain is a clear example of what ails American politics.
Here we have a man who was shaped by a regimented experience, a man who came of age wearing a uniform who somehow found his way into an afterlife of statesmanship in Arizona. Our government is full of former military people who are running this godforsaken USA who voted for this awful war against the Iraqis, thinking it would be a walk in the park.
Some military people never remove the uniform when entering the political stage. That way of thinking that our armies are superior carry over into civilian life and shape the national agenda. Why do we seem to find the money for military projects when we are always out of money for some social porjects like housing and welfare. Oh, yeah, the working poor can work for peanuts, have bake sales. It'll be the day when the Pentagon holds a bake sale to buy a Hornet jet fighter. The military are our nation's agenda-setters.
Four years later, this nut says we need more cannon fodder-oops, troops to stabilize Baghdad. These soldiers aren't cops. Well, Johnnie, what ever happened to the WMDs? Has our military found anything besides death and destruction?
McCain's posturing is simply adding more gasoline to the firestorm over there, and given his background, he's no firefighter.
Why can't someone wish him to the cornfield? We'll be better off without him.

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McCain is a monster.
Posted by: JoshuaLudd on Jan 17, 2007 12:40 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
McCain is a monster. That should be self-evident by now. I had high hopes for him, too. Too bad for our nation... that not a man seems interested in serving it honestly.

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» RE: McCain is a monster. Posted by: blitzmesser
Yes, he can be glib
Posted by: opeluboy on Jan 17, 2007 1:47 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So what? McCain's popularity is based on the mistaken notion that he is a "straight-talker." He reveals a sense of humor, and is quick-witted when dealing with neo-liberals like Jon Stewart (who until recently seemed to have a schoolboy crush on the reptilian senator). This we can thank on television and our corrupt media. That so many Americans where sucked in by this pig's media disguise — so much so that many clueless Democrats actually wanted him on the ticket with Kerry — proves that as a nation we are pathetically gullible and best suited to high-minded affairs like American Idol.

McCain is a coward, not a "war hero." I have long maintained, even to my Vietnam veteran friends, that there is nothing heroic about bombing civilians from 30,000 feet. That he ended up a POW, while certainly painful, does not automatically make him heroic either.

McCain is an opportunist. He is amoral. He is a Republican, which defines amoral. His voting record is one of the most conservative. He has never seen a war he didn't like.

And he looks like a goddamn thumb-puppet.

I truly despise him, and hope that this will be his last pathetic hurrah, and that we will be spared future attempts by this warmongering scum to grab the highest office in the land.

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THE SMEDLEY BUTLER SOCIETY
Posted by: aonghus36 on Jan 17, 2007 1:48 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The author of War is a Racket is honored by a society named for him. Even the URL of the society's web site is named for his book. All interested may check out http://www.warisaracket.org/index.html So far, it seems filled with information on how wars are meant to enrich the few at the great expense of the many.

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Which war?
Posted by: veive on Jan 17, 2007 4:25 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'd like to know which war would be won if we "prevail" in Iraq. Seems to me if you regard a cease fire in the civil war being conducted there, that would hardly qualify as prevailing. These folks have hated each other for millenia and the only reason they'll stop shooting is to get our asses outta there so they can resume their hassle.

Meanwhile what would qualify as the true war on terror is being paid lip service. The terrorists who attacked us on 9/11/01 have nothing to do with Iraq except for a few pot stirrers who help keep the Sunni and Shia shooting at each other. So when McCain talks about winning some war I wish he'd define the war as well as provide his definition of victory. This whole Iraq thing has been a colossal abuse of the English language. For shame, John McCain. I wonder what you'll have to say when a reconstituted Taliban that we've been pretty much ignoring starts attacking us in Afghanistan come Spring. Welcome to your pal, Georgie's mess, John, I hope you bring along a humongous pooper scooper.

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FlipFlopping McCain
Posted by: boing007 on Jan 17, 2007 5:29 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Tic-Toc! FlipFlop!
Cuckoo! Cuckoo!

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False maverick
Posted by: robmikejas on Jan 20, 2007 9:27 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
John McCain...A duplicitous, Bush loving, Republican right winger with only his own interests at heart. Beware the senator from Arizona. He is a dangerous man unsuited to lead this country. He speak with forked toungue.

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WHY IS JOHN MCCAIN SUCH A MEDIA FAVORITE?
Posted by: poppop_schell on Jan 25, 2007 11:10 AM   
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I don't know why that the media still gives McCain such wide coverage??? He still leads in the GOP polls so..???

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