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What Al Gore Hasn't Told You About Global Warming

By David Morris, AlterNet. Posted January 9, 2007.


George Monbiot's new book Heat picks up where Al Gore left off on global warming, offering real solutions without sugar-coating the large personal sacrifices they will require.
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Al Gore is our generation's Paul Revere. Riding hard through the country, he warns us of the impending arrival of climatic disaster. He's proven an astonishingly effective messenger. An Inconvenient Truth may receive an Oscar for Best Documentary. Overflow crowds greet his presentations with standing ovations.

Which, come to think of it, is odd. When has someone ever delivered such an ominous message to such tumultuous applause? (Aside from those who insist we are in the end times and the rapture is near.)

In a recent speech to a standing-room-only audience at the New York University School of Law, Gore declared, "We are moving closer to several 'tipping points' that could -- within as little as 10 years -- make it impossible for us to avoid irretrievable damage to the planet's habitability for human civilization." The audience cheered wildly. Presumably audiences are not cheered by the prospect of imminent catastrophe. So what is going on here?

British journalist George Monbiot, author of Heat: How to Stop the Planet from Burning (Doubleday, 2006) has a theory.

"We wish our governments to pretend to act," he writes. "We get the moral satisfaction of saying what we know to be right, without the discomfort of doing it. My fear is that the political parties in most rich nations have already recognized this. They know that we want tough targets, but that we also want those targets to be missed. They know that we will grumble about their failure to curb climate change, but that we will not take to the streets. They know that nobody ever rioted for austerity."

Austerity? Hold on. Al Gore and the rest of the U.S. environmental movement never utter the word "austerity." Their word of choice is "opportunity." The prospect of global warming, they maintain, can serve as a much-needed catalyst to spur us to action. A large dose of political will may be required, but we need not anticipate economic pain. We can stop global warming in its tracks, expand our economy and improve our quality of life. We can, in other words, do good and do quite well. A leading environmentalist, for whom I have a great deal of admiration, summed up his position to an interviewer, "I can't stand it when people say, 'Taking action on climate change is going to be extremely difficult.'"

And there's the rub, as dear Hamlet would say. By claiming we can solve the problem of climate change painlessly, environmentalists confuse us. They offer stark and rigorous presentations terrifying us about the near-term, dire consequences of global warming. And then they offer generalized, almost blithe assurances about how we can avoid these dire consequences without great sacrifice. We are horrified and soothed at the same time. It's a dangerous strategy. Many who focus on the catastrophic present-day images of An Inconvenient Truth believe we have gone beyond the point of no return, which leads to cynicism and passivity. Those who are spurred to action believe that buying a hybrid car or taking an eco-vacation will address the problem.

Indeed, the "take action" section of Al Gore's website, www.climatecrisis.net recommends the following steps. Put on a sweater. Use more efficient light bulbs. Turn the thermostat down 2 degrees. Drive less.

I'm sure Al Gore knows that even if millions of individuals were to adopt such actions, the pace of ecological disaster would not slow one whit. I presume he views these actions as a way for us to demonstrate our willingness accept responsibility for our consumption habits. The next, and far more important, step is to persuade us to work collectively and aggressively for bold new policies. A recent letter from Al Gore, emailed from MoveOn.org asked us to do just that by signing a petition to push Congress to action.

Gore declared, "I'm ready to push for real solutions, but I need your help ..." The email offered no policy solutions. Nor does Al Gore's web site or speeches, except for his recommendation that America immediately freeze its greenhouse gas emissions and then reduce them.

George Monbiot, a reporter for the British newspaper, Guardian takes up where Al Gore and many others leave off. Heat is a remarkable book. For it is not written to convince the unconvinced global warming, but to educate the already-persuaded, those who exited the theater after watching An Inconvenient Truth with fire in their bellies, ready to fight the incoming menace about what must be done, and ready to face the significant sacrifices that will have to be made along the way.

Monbiot's assumptions differ only modestly from those of Al Gore. Both believe the window of opportunity is short, and closing. Both believe we must immediately freeze greenhouse gas emissions and then reduce them by up to 60 percent below current levels by about 2030. (Gore may use the 2050 time frame). Monbiot recommends more rapid reductions than others, but he argues persuasively that an ounce of reduction in the early years can avoid the need for a pound of reduction in the later years.

A key contribution by Monbiot is that he addresses the question Al Gore asks, but doesn't answer. "(W)hat would a responsible approach to the climate crisis look like if we had one in America?" Monbiot asks the question of his home country, United Kingdom.

Monbiot launches his investigation by asking a crucial question rarely discussed by Al Gore and other U.S. environmentalists: How does the responsibility of the world's largest polluters differ from that of the rest of the world? The average American generates more than 10 times the greenhouse gas emissions as does the average Chinese, and perhaps 30 times more than the average citizen of Bangladesh. (The gluttony of the average citizen of the UK is not far below that of the average American).

When Al Gore says he wants to freeze emissions, presumably he's talking about planetary emissions, not U.S. emissions. Otherwise, he's asking humanity to freeze the current stark disparity in resource use in place. That's politically impossible and morally disagreeable. Since the U.S. and UK generate a disproportionate amount of global greenhouse gases, a responsible approach presumably would require them to disproportionately reduce their emissions.

Monbiot argues for a global carbon emissions cap allocated on a per capita basis. Since all of humanity shares the biosphere, which has only a limited absorptive and cleansing capacity and all humans are created equal, then each should have equal use of that capacity.

The implications of biospheric equity are so profound and so disturbing, that it is understandable why American environmentalists shy away from discussing the issue. Currently, global carbon emissions are about 7 billion tons, roughly, 1 ton per person. But the average American generates, directly and indirectly, some 10 tons per capita. Thus, to save the planet and cleanse our resource sins, Americans must go far beyond freezing greenhouse gas emissions. As a nation, we must reduce them by more than 90 percent, taking into account the sharp reductions in existing global emissions necessary to stabilize the world's climate.

Suddenly we realize that addressing the global warming problem will be very difficult, not only politically but economically and institutionally. And it may well entail significant sacrifice.

Consider the following: California has received much well-deserved praise for enacting legislation that establishes a statewide carbon cap for 2020 equal to the state's 1990 emission level. Achieving this goal would mean reducing current emissions by about 13 percent. Another 80 percent reduction will be necessary if California is to achieve its fair share of the global emissions reductions necessary to stabilize climate change.

Monbiot recommends the per-capita carbon budgets be allocated nationally. Nations would decide how to parcel out these allocations. Ideally, these could be passed through to individuals. But Monbiot notes the administrative costs involved in having people spend their carbon allowances on tens of thousands of products and services, each one denominated in carbon credits as well as currency. To simplify the process, he recommends a strategy developed by two of his compatriots, Mayer Hillman and David Fleming. They argue that since 40 percent of the UK's carbon emissions result from the use of fuels and electricity and it is relatively simple to develop a method by which individuals pay for these energy sources with carbon credits, 40 percent of the nation's carbon allocations should be passed through to individuals. The remaining 60 percent would belong to the government, which might auction them off to generate revenue.

The bulk of Heat is an exhaustive sector-by-sector, hardheaded examination of the near-term technical and economic capacity for wealthy, industrialized nations to achieve the necessary reductions. The examination relies on an immense volume of technical studies and primary research. Monbiot concludes that the UK can indeed achieve sufficient reductions within the time frame, but just barely, and at a high cost.

Although none of the reductions will be easily achieved, Monbiot's analysis concludes that those related to transportation may be the hardest of all. To reduce ground transportation emissions sufficiently, he suggests the need to severely lessen individual shopping trips. To accomplish this, he proposes that goods be delivered. He cites a UK Department of Transportation study that notes, "a number of modeling exercises and other surveys suggest that the substitution of private cars by delivery vehicles could reduce traffic by 70 percent or more." Every van the stores dispatch, in other words, takes three cars off the road. Monbiot also proposes to transform out of town superstores into warehouses, to be visited only by vehicles that pick up supplies. That will save even more energy, because warehouses use only 35 percent as much heat and 29 percent as much electricity as do stores.

In only one sector does Monbiot fail to identify a technical solution at any cost: air travel. Flying generates about the same volume of greenhouse gases per passenger mile as a car. But, of course, flights are many miles longer than drives. Fly from New York to California and back and you will generate as much greenhouse gas emissions as you will by driving your Prius all year.

Monbiot reluctantly concludes, "(T)here is simply no way of tackling this issue other than reducing the number, length and speed of the journeys we make." Knowing the audience for whom the book is intended, he acerbically adds, this will mean the end of "shopping trips to New York, political meetings in Porto Alegre, long distance vacations."

He urges his readers "to remember that these privations affect a tiny proportion of the world's people. The reason they seem so harsh is that this tiny proportion almost certainly includes you."

Monbiot sums up his findings, "I have sought to demonstrate that the necessary reduction in carbon emissions is -- if difficult -- technically and economically possible. I have not demonstrated that it is politically possible."

Is it politically possible? The last paragraph of Heat is not hopeful. "(T)he campaign against climate change is an odd one. Unlike almost all the public protests which have preceded it, it is a campaign not for abundance but for austerity. It is a campaign not for more freedom but for less. Strangest of all, it is a campaign not just against other people, but also against ourselves."

Which may be why we hear so much talk about the problem but so little talk about sacrifice.

For those who favor aggressively expanding renewable energy, dramatically improving efficiency and abandoning our dependence on imported oil, but remain unconvinced about the timing and severity of climate change, the disconnect between rhetoric and reality doesn't matter. They can view the threat of global warming as a means to an end, a rhetorical device to stimulate people and governments to aggressively embrace these objectives. If we do get 25 percent of our expanded energy consumption from renewables by 2025, they will be satisfied. Indeed, they will be ecstatic.

But for those who truly believe that widespread and perhaps irreversible ecological disaster is imminent, for those who believe we have only a 10-year window of opportunity before disaster becomes inevitable, expanding renewable energy and improving efficiency is not sufficient unless it is done at a scale and on a pace that dramatically reduces global carbon emissions by 2030, with emissions by nations like the United States and United Kingdom being reduced by upwards of 90 percent.

By not sugar coating the means, Heat provides an important public service. By clearly presenting his data, Monbiot lets us decide where we agree and where we disagree. He invites a conversation. I look forward to it. And I hope to soon see a U.S. environmentalist take up the Monbiot challenge and put together an equally thorough and rigorous examination of our own ability to tackle global warming.










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See more stories tagged with: global warming, climate change, al gore, inconvenient truth, monbiot, heat

David Morris is co-founder and vice president of the Institute for Local Self Reliance in Minneapolis, Minnnesota and director of its New Rules project.

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Crazy World
Posted by: edith on Jan 9, 2007 12:58 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If the tipping point is ten, or even twenty years away, the combination of controls(you can't drive to the store) and taxes(another name for the polite carbon credits) has to be implemented. Right now, the debate in the US is whether or not to let the Bush tax policies expire to finance Medicare and Social Security, and how to avoid the extension of the alternate minimum tax to the middle class(i.e., a huge revenue reducer for the middle class). Furthermore, capitalists and "progressives" circle each other warily but seductively in a dance meant to legalize millions of illegal immmigrants in the US who will consume more energy in the USA than in their godforsaken villages in Mexico, Central America or China.

There is another "solution"" do nothing and let insurance costs and real estate valuations price climate change over time. Let the consumer pay the costs of climate change without govt subsidy. To the extent the forecasts are excessive, the consumer saves money. To the extent Monbiot et al are correct, the consumer pays without the costly intervention of govt and its "carbon credit" scheme.

I suppose I shall enrage the progressives of Alternet when I say that most Americans do not care if millions die in third world countries (well, we don't care if millions of Iraqis die; we are just upset we are not winning.) and so until the pain is felt in richer countries, no one gives a damn. So I am not sure what the Monbiots are appealing to: if it's our consciences, that is a lovely Shavian 19th century sort of idealism that died the moment the first SUV hit the highways and the moment more Americans went to Malls than voted.

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» RE: Crazy World Posted by: HeroesAll
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» RE: Crazy World Posted by: ncg96773
More Than Driving A Prius
Posted by: NoPCZone on Jan 9, 2007 1:18 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The soft sell at the Climate Crisis website is to get them in the door, the real truth is a whole lot more ugly. To be fair, baby steps are O.K. as long as you progress to a full gait and then a run. That's what it's going to take.

The whole matrix of our economy, geographic distribution and infrastructure have been defined by cheap carbon based fuel and will not work well in a sustainable economy. Do you think the people who have bought houses 75-100 miles from their workplaces (NYC, DC LA, etc) where no public transit exists are going to keep living that way? How about millions of people living in deserts with 12 month a year air conditioning and water pumped hundreds of miles uphill at great cost?

When jet travel costs skyrocket because of ever increasing fuel prices and ever falling public subsidies (the US has $9 trillion in Federal public debt), do you think our airports will be packed with sales reps and marketers? How about the 1500 mile salad? Or grapes shipped from Chile (look at that on a globe- they are flown in)?

I'll save you the rest, but it's going to be disruptive, painful and as sure as the sunrise. The only questions pertain as to when, how and are we willing or will events force us to. Sugar pills will not do.

FYI- Over it's life cycle, a Prius, from manufacturing to disposal, uses more energy and generates more greenhouse gases than a conventional compact car, due primarily to manufacturing. That's also before Toyota ships a ton plus of car halfway around the world. See, appearances can be deceptive.

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» RE: More Than Driving A Prius Posted by: HeroesAll
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» RE: More Than Driving A Prius Posted by: NoPCZone
» RE: More Than Driving A Prius Posted by: NoPCZone
A crucial point not mentioned in this article
Posted by: HeroesAll on Jan 9, 2007 1:54 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
One point that Monbiot made in the book, and emphasised in an interview I did with him a couple of months ago, is that all of his suggestions are possible with current technology.

We don't need to wait for improvements in engine efficiency, or the invention of economically viable fuel cells: everything can be done with technology we now have, at an economically viable cost. Note that I don't say a politically acceptable cost, because politics relies on a whole swag of emotional responses, and on social and political greed/selfishness/fear of change.

But we can do it, within the very short time frame. I think it behoves us to try, and to convince others of the necessity. The world will change drastically in the next few decades: the only question is whether we try to aim for a positive change, or sit back and accept the worst.

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What NOBODY's told you about Global Warming
Posted by: gwill on Jan 9, 2007 2:20 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
From a United Nations news release:

"29 November 2006, Rome - Which causes more greenhouse gas emissions, rearing cattle or driving cars?

Surprise!

According to a new report published by the United Nations Food and Agriculture Organization, the livestock sector generates more greenhouse gas emissions as measured in CO2 equivalent – 18 percent – than transport. It is also a major source of land and water degradation."

That release is at http://www.fao.org/newsroom/en/news/2006/1000448/index.html

What you eat -- meat vs. veggies -- could have more impact on global warming (at least in the short term) than how much you drive.

The report, _Livestock's Long Shadow_, is a free PDF download at the FAO site.

I've found _very_ little in the media on this -- could it be just TOO inconvenient a truth???

Greg Williams
Kentucky, USA

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» RE: What NOBODY's told you about Global Warming Posted by: Fat Man at the Buffet Line
Do you think our supersystem is going to permit any of this?
Posted by: notabilia on Jan 9, 2007 2:35 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Of course Monbiot provides necessary information, but could we, as thinking people, take an honest, self-critical look at our supersystem, the interlocking practices and workings of power that are arranged all around us, and see how far gone we are? Do you think the rich and the profiteering are going to give it all up? Do you think there is any opening in the current religious-military-anti-intellectual-political parade of entrenched charlatans for radical regulation? We cannot back up our own current laws with a fraction of enforcement - the rich and the corporations are fleecing and robbing and destroying to a monolithic degree - and we are supposed to show them a study that will get them to step aside? We have no capacity to do this kind of "Austerity" - none. A proclamation that we can do this in the next ten years is laughable. Can our progressive Names please get some mature seriousness in their statements, and start voicing our hard-earned despair at ourselves, our complicities, our limitations, and our chilling capacity for avoidance of blame?

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Yea But You Go First
Posted by: marxalot on Jan 9, 2007 3:36 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Who will step up and begin. Which politician has the political courage and the clout, influence and power to even begin this process in which we all pay in economic pain now for the avoidance of global catastrophe later?

In my life of 51 years I have never seen such an animal. Not until New York City is waste deep in seawater. Then there will be righteous indignation and blame.

I saw a stretch Hummer tooling around Galveston again the other day. Man, I can't even envision a fantasy version of a way out of this mess.

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Something I never hear in these debates-part 1
Posted by: vuturistic on Jan 9, 2007 3:50 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is always amazing to me that when it comes to global warming (a subject I have been debating for over 30 years) the one thing I never hear from people and that I get a great deal of flack from is the fact that simply reducing consumption, curbiing emissions, making better eco-choices don't seem to include the one thing that is compounding the situation and what, in my opinion, makes me believe that we have already gone over the tipping point some time ago. The issue that I am talking about? Let me give you a hint.

Every time you switch off a light, consolidate shopping trips, car pool, recycle, sacrificially give up a cross country trip or a vacation to the other side of the word, the population of the world has gone up several hundred thousand (100,000). All those new people are coming into the world faster than those of us presently doing all this consuming (and sacrificial conservation) are leaving. Hungry new mouths to feed and drink and consume even more. So, until we learn to make the ultimate sacrifice and reduce the number of children we bring into the world so the population gets back to some reasonably sustainable number (like, say, 2 or 3 billion, instead of approaching 7 billion and beyond)

Here's a relatively easy way to visualize the impact of this. In 1950 there were about 2 billion people populating the planet. Now, only 57 years later, we have three to four times that. Imagine you are in an average room (say, 12x12 feet) and there are three other people in there with you. It is 1950 and the four of you are moderately comfortable. Now jump forward to the present and that room has eleven people in it. It takes more of everything to keep those eleven comforable (and that's not including the reduction in personal space which adds an invisible threat in cultural comfort zones like the United States where people get way to nervous and uptight if you get too close. (I theorize this is one of the biggest factors in the increase of violent behaviors like road rage.)

If populations had stabilized at around 3 billion, our present consumption as a species would be less than half of what it is today.

I've become more cynical and less optimistic as I grow older as I see major religions of the world becoming more rigid and fundamentalist in nature tauting things like big families and telling members abortions, singlehood and non-believers are bad. I am not saying I'm against children. I think kids are great. (I was one once myself.) And certainly the future would look equally as bleak without them as with unchecked numbers of them. Human nature being what it is, people will never stop having babies. Unlike the rest of nature on this planet, we are in the unique position to manipulate the environment to our advantage but we have done so at the peril of ourselves and almost every other living creature on the planet.

I hear biblical literalists spout prophecy that we are in the end times and Armaggedon was foretold. I submit that the nomadic tribes of three millennia in the past had no clue about what is transpiring today and if I held to the belief that the Good Book was indeed written by the Almighty and He knew about such things, I cannot for one nanosecond believe that an all-knowing, all-powerful and all-loving god would not have given a more prudent and cautious warning than 'be fruitful and multiply.' I can imagine those kinds of thoughts coming out of the minds of 3,000 year old primitive tribal priests who saw their little corner of the world was better preserved for their progeny through strength in numbers. It worked back then but it is 3,000 years later and we are still collectively thinking somewhat like that throughout most of the world.

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» Actually... Posted by: vangogh69
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» Curb immigration Posted by: Logic's Edge
Something I never hear in these debates-part 2
Posted by: vuturistic on Jan 9, 2007 3:50 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Those who hold literalist views of bibilical scripture are right about one thing, we are living in the end times and when it comes there will be no one left to listen to Mozart or watch The Greatest Story Ever Told. It will not matter that Jesus walked the earth to save us all from sin when there are none left to have sin. All the efforts of Plato, Socrates, Shakespeare, Sun Yat Sin, Leonardo da Vinci, Galileo Galilei, Benjamin Franklin, Charlemagne, and all the rest we hold in such high human regard and every one who lived and loved and died will be all for nothing. Because when we are no more then all that we have ever done as a species will be for absolutely nothing. Whatever god or gods or goddesses or otherwise deities we each believe in will no longer matter because no human thought will exist to contemplate the existence of a supreme being.

So, we had better wise up and see the big picture pretty darn quick but then we're all so busy arguing and fighting with one another to really, really care about whether our vastly superior intellectual species survives another few centuries to make the trillions and trillions of hours of collect human thought that all of us since time began have put into telling each other how vastly more intelligent we are than anything that has ever existed before or since.

I hope I make millions of people really angry by what I have said. I hope that you all get so angry that you just say, it is not easy and no one can make a lonlier or bigger sacrifice than to decide not to have children because that is what I decided to do and I am here to tell you, it is lonely and it is empty but I have found ways to live a fulfilling and meaningful life and to help others and contribute to society and my community. I always felt I missed something by not having children but I know I made the right choice because it has given me the time and insight to help others who never would have had someone stop and share and tell them they mattered and they could make a difference.

You matter and you can make a difference. We all matter and we can all make a difference. It's simple. It is difficult but it is simple. What a terrible, terrible, terrible waste if we let it all come to an end because we couldn't figure out how to all live together in a sustainable world.

In the spirit of a song: In the year 2525, if man is still alive, if someone has survived they may find...these words and know that those of us living in 2007 had the care and the courage to do what we have to do to ensure that those 26th centururians will be there to live and love and laugh and sing and experience all the other wonderful things about being alive and being human. We are all parents of the human race and it is up to each and every one of us to protect and ensure the safety and survival of our global village's children--whatever it takes.

I hope I have been appropriately thoughtful. I don't know that I've been profound though I'd like to be thought of that way. It is, in any event, most deeply and passionately heartfelt in the spirit of caring love.

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» Nuclear Energy is a fool's errand Posted by: Michael Robin
» THANK YOU Posted by: Artemis3
Why not walk to the shop?
Posted by: Swatopluk on Jan 9, 2007 4:33 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Again one of the great differences between the US and Central Europe.
The concept of reducing emissons by letting the shops deliver the goods to the people instead of them driving their own car to the shops would completely fail over here. European towns and cities are usually organized in a way that one can either walk to the shop or use public transport. In my experience cars are usually not used because of distance but because of weight (i.e. covering only a minor part of all shopping trips). In other words, this idea would probably work well in the US but not over here (and we on average drive more efficient cars anyway).

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» RE: Why not walk to the shop? Posted by: vangogh69
Self-interest ?
Posted by: jefhadist on Jan 9, 2007 4:40 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"People rarely do things in their own best self interest....let alone mine." And that feels to be the crux of the matter. How to encourage, cajole, teach, convince, beg and/or peacefully "force" folks to do something for the good of the whole. We've been on this trajectory at least since WWII. Call it what you will. Until folks get smart about their effect on the world in every aspect of their choices....the exertion of their will for SELF alone, or for their own little clan, will keep digging us deeper into "no exit." Millions of individual choices do add up to x amount of carbon reduction... but to tell folks in developing regions they can't have what we take for granted is ludicrous. If we don't lead by example, forget about it. And Gore praising Walmart for supposedly going "green" ain't going to save the planet. What a joke.

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» RE: Self-interest ? Posted by: reubenj
This writer can't be that stupid.
Posted by: ebennett46 on Jan 9, 2007 4:47 AM   
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I have only read the first three paragraphs. These people are honoring Gore for getting the word out before it it too late -- DUH! Please don't be completely THICK here. I don't have time for it.

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Granddaddy of All Solutions
Posted by: danielgeery on Jan 9, 2007 4:50 AM   
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I almost joined this group by accident, but for the fact that I ended up with one child of my own. There is no question as to whether our numbers will be reduced, but rather how we'll go about it--the easy way or the hard way.

Here are some thoughts worth pondering:

Voluntary Movement for the Extinction of Humans

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Voluntary Measures? LMAO!!
Posted by: MAD on Jan 9, 2007 5:06 AM   
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I said it before and I'll repeat it here. The "voluntary" phase of half measures aimed at modestly slowing environmental degradation has come to a close. It's now time to implement "forced" measures. Now we only have to get the government on board. *Uproarious Fit of Hysterical Laughter*

We just don't seem to get it and I don't think we ever will. Even if global warming is a myth, something I find unlikely, we remain on a collision course with disaster. The Amazon is still burning and topsoil is being sterilized. Anyone been to China lately? Desertification is only one of their numerous problems. Safe drinking water is mainly a luxury and the rest of the world continues to use that country as a dumping ground. Come to think of it, safe drinking water is mainly a luxury for an unthinkable number of people worldwide. Humans have demonstrated that they aren't up to the task and no amount of goading will change our habits. Time to put away the carrot and the stick and break out the clubs.

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It's all propaganda
Posted by: jack alexander on Jan 9, 2007 5:23 AM   
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I'm leftwing/liberal/progressive, but I have taken enough college courses to learn when I am being flim-flammed.

All of these 'Green' people want us to change our lives this way or that. In other words sacrifice. And if we listen to them we WILL sacrifice.

All of them have an ulterior motive and that is the parasitic capitalist mind-set. They only want us to stop doing this or that so that they and their cohorts can sell us alternatives that will cost us money---lots of it.

The fact is that the planet, for a lack of a better phrase, is a living, variable organism. It has been changing for eons and will continue to do so for a long time to come. The latest theory for the demise of the dinosaurs is that they died because of global warming...previously we were sold the idea that they froze to death because of a meteor hitting the earth causing a 'nuclear-like' winter.

The planet is also being polluted (natually) be various volcanos and experiments that took place in the 60s and 70 by the HAARP project (and the Soviet counter part) which blew holes in the ozone that could take 100 or more years to naturally 'heal'.

I choose to believe this scientest (a pdf is attached to the article): http://geobay.com/e1d6bb

Global warming clap-trap is just a ploy at trying to control us and bleed us for more money. It is also a convenient smoke screen to take our dumbed down herd-mentality minds off of real issues such as the criminal acts of war crimes being commited against humanity . Include into this that our fearless leader has instituted a 'Unitary' goverment (just like they gave Adolf in the 30s and 40s). Adolf caused a lot of chaos very quickly when that power was allowed him by the German people.

Many of our constitutional rights and civil rights are being nullified or abused daily at an increasing rate. In order for the criminals to get these crimes against us they have to instill fear in the public and this smoke screen is just one way to do it. The imaginary danger from another race/religion/system of government which is not ours is another tool being used to instill this fear and increase the power of the herd mentality mind-set.

The world changes all of the time. Some things as mentioned above and the effects of solar activity do these kinds of things to the weather. It is a gradual occurance and there is nothing we can do to change it (except stop the government from burning holes in the ozone layer).

I remember from my history lessons that as little as just over 100 years ago parts of Europe was frozen over due to a mini ice age. People didn't huddle in fear and change or stop major parts of thier lives. They adapted and survived well enough to produce a good many of us now living in the Americas.

Right now the solution for this problem is to stop listening to these fear mongers, the government and get on with life while listening to the real problems society faces such as fascist/neo-nazi war mongering (for profit) and start to make major changes in our governments....

AND: CHIMPEACH, try the chimp and his minions and put them in prison so that they can do no more harm to us and humanity...

Living in Little Saigon, CA (remember the commies were going to overrun us via the 'Domino Effect'?, as a buddhist:

I am Jack Alexander and this is what I know to be true.

How about you?

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» RE: It's all propaganda Posted by: futurefarm
» RE: It's all propaganda Posted by: jack alexander
» RE: It's all propaganda Posted by: grolan
» RE: It's all propaganda Posted by: jack alexander
» RE: It's all propaganda Posted by: amiabledave
» RE: It's all propaganda Posted by: jack alexander
» RE: It's all propaganda Posted by: TagsNOLA
» RE: It's all propaganda Posted by: NowYogi
» RE: It's all propaganda Posted by: ng1944
That's all well and good, but ...
Posted by: LMNOP on Jan 9, 2007 5:29 AM   
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The Complete Cynic's Guide to the Corporatocracy's Response to Global Warming:

That's all well and good, but ...

... you're talking about Americans. If we're anything, we're self-centered, easily duped, in the dark and in search of whatever is easy. Our leadership is greedy, arrogant, irresponsible and feels entitled. I wonder what's going to happen. If he cannot act responsibly, man deserves his fate. Maybe evolution *should* go back to the drawing board and try again. Next time, the intelligence that evolves will be able to study their narcissistic ancestor's artifacts and see what we did to ourselves, and perhaps do better.

"Since the U.S. and UK generate a disproportionate amount of global greenhouse gases, a responsible approach presumably would require them to disproportionately reduce their emissions."

Why do you hate freedom and prosperity? This is more of that socialist, class warfare crap from the pinkos. If we give in to the environment, then the terrorists have won.

""(W)hat would a responsible approach to the climate crisis look like if we had one in America?""

Classified, sequestered and unread.

"Thus, to save the planet and cleanse our resource sins, Americans must go far beyond freezing greenhouse gas emissions. As a nation, we must reduce them by more than 90 percent, taking into account the sharp reductions in existing global emissions necessary to stabilize the world's climate."

No way, then. America would rather destroy the earth than do that. Besides, most of the people who make such decisions are either expecting the second coming and the destruction of the earth from that any minute now, or else are too old, greedy and selfish to care about posterity. And the typical American is not going to make any sacrifices voluntarily. You do the math.

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Neither Gore nor Monboit actually address the issue much less push real solutions forward. It's all
Posted by: maxpayne on Jan 9, 2007 5:44 AM   
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the same BS. It's one thing to be condescended by the elites telling us to "conserve" even while they're the ones that promote the policies that created the waste and destroy environment in the first place.

P.S.: It's a shame that Alternet won't expose Gore's voting record while he was in office. Saying yes to NAFTA, staying silent while senators allowed funding for solar and wind to languish, joining Clinton and the rest of the ilk in both parties when it came to allowing "voluntary" cleanup efforts by Big Auto, staying silent even while the Senate vote for the Kyoto Treaty though not perfect was a strong NAY, praising the DEA for bombing out the hemp farm in South Dakota and calling hemp a "dangerous drug" instead of fighting to allow industrial hemp to enter the "free" market, ... you get the picture. I used to think that Gore really cared for the environment but for all his gloom and doom talk and his hypocritical voting record, it just makes me a PISSED OFF DEMOCRAT. And Monboit offers no solutions either other than telling us to give up everything ! With this kind of attitude, these guys are nothing but FAILURES !

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» Have you read Monbiot's book? Posted by: HeroesAll
» AND phoney Posted by: NowYogi
There are two realities here
Posted by: Rebcamuse on Jan 9, 2007 6:27 AM   
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There is the reality of climate change and then there is the reality of people's willingness to act.

When I can't even get well-meaning progressives to take the time simply to WATCH An Inconvenient Truth, I'm a bit skeptical that we are going to be able to march toward this grand concept of austerity.

We live in a world of apathy, but that doesn't mean that the baby steps don't count. Will they save us? No, probably not. But I do believe in the ripple effect when it comes to a change in mindset and THAT, I believe, is what Gore is trying to do. To criticize Gore for not going far enough is a waste and insults anyone who has ever put forth an effort for the right reasons. To supplement Gore's recommendations with stronger suggestions of self-sacrifice makes a lot more sense because some people WILL graduate from the compact flourescent light bulb level and move on toward more "austerity."

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» RE: There are two realities here Posted by: Sparking Waves
Switching To All Electric Vehicles & Hybrids Would Reduce CO2 Emissions By 42 PerCent!
Posted by: Douglas on Jan 9, 2007 6:29 AM   
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Both Monbiot and Gore believe that we must immediately freeze greenhouse gas emissions and then reduce them by up to 60 percent below current levels by 2030. Currently, most of our electric plants are fossil fuel burning (mostly coal). Despite this fact a switch from petroleum powered vehicles to EVs and hybrids, even if they were recharged by our existing fossil fuel burning electric power grids, would reduce CO2 emissions by 42 percent, according to Peter Lilienthal of the National Reenewable Energy Laboratory. For more information see Steve Heckeroth, "Why We Need Electric Cars," Mother Earth News, October/November 2006, pp. 94-100 (www.MotherEarthNews.com). The Petroleum Lobby and the equally insidious Ethanol/Biofuel Lobby will resist and oppose efforts to switch from petroleum to electric cars. The rest of us must be on our guard against their ongoing propaganda. Some of their PR trolls are on Alternet right now arguing for the use of CO2 emitting Ethanol!!

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» One simple question Posted by: HeroesAll
Excelsior!!!!!!
Posted by: Fat Man at the Buffet Line on Jan 9, 2007 6:39 AM   
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I'm totally serial!

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» RE: xcelsior!!!!!! Posted by: jack alexander
» RE: xcelsior!!!!!! Posted by: NowYogi
» RE: xcelsior!!!!!! Posted by: jack alexander
Here is the final solution.
Posted by: douglashoyt on Jan 9, 2007 6:44 AM   
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Murder 80 percent of the world, or let nature murder 80 percent of the world.

Humankind will not take option one because it is nuts (though we do seem to be on the edge here). But option 2 is coming without any effort on our part (yes, pun intended).

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Balance is the key to survival... and peace.
Posted by: CMaciolek on Jan 9, 2007 7:09 AM   
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Economies that are in balance with the environment have no need to start wars.

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» Malthus is dead Posted by: CMaciolek
It may already be too late if wearing sweaters is the solution
Posted by: MartianBachelor on Jan 9, 2007 7:40 AM   
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I haven't read this new book, and I'm not sure where Gore comes up with his ten-year window; it's suspiciously comparable to the length of time he might have left in the public arena.

The time scale for cycling of CO2 in the atmosphere, upper ocean layers, and the biosphere is on the order of many decades to centuries, and since the fossil-fuel based industrial revolution has been going on for something like this amount of time, the time to have started doing something was quite a few decades ago. The processes involved are very slow compared to regular human timescales and have a lot of inertia. This is what one gets from looking at high mountain ice cores around the globe (see especially the book "Thin Ice"), the rate at which glaciers have been retreating in mountain ranges everywhere (numerous references), and numerous changes seen in ice cores taken from various arctic locations (ditto).

There will be a natural tendency in all the free countries of the world, which happen to be the ones causing most of the problem in the first place, to resist being told what to do, both collectively and at the individual level. While I wouldn't want to minimize the symbolic and feel-good effects of changes in behavior which reduce CO2 production by tens of percents, which I think are unlikely to happen, what we really need in order to undo the cumulative effects of the entire carbon burning experiment is more akin to a planet-wide terraforming project. The scale of the problem is that big. I.e., we need to act globally, not that small local changes really hurt any except perhaps to divert our attention away from where it really needs to be.

Some possibilities:

1) Seeding the oceans w/iron to promote phytoplankton growth

2) CO2 liquification and sequestration in geologic formations

3) Soil carbonization

All of these have unknown side effects. To my mind it's likely we'll just muddle along not doing much, attempting to adapt to the changes and periodic local catastrophes as best we can, and hoping for the best. By the time the whole situation is deemed to be wholly untenable (another century or more?), the ability to do anything about it on the scale which is required may be gone.

Methane is a separate greenhouse gas problem because it's not stable in an oxygen atmosphere; so reducing methane production has tangible benefits because its lifetime is on the order of a decade.

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Hemp
Posted by: theskywolf on Jan 9, 2007 8:00 AM   
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The answer to global warming is Hemp, pure and simple.

Without writing a book, which has already been done several times, Hemp as a biofuel is considerably cleaner and easier to produce than corn or soybeans. It will grow on even marginal quality soil without the need for pesticides, herbicides etceteracides.

Further, you can get at least four different products from each Hemp plant: Fuel, oil (Either lubricating or cooking, paper, building materials, cloth and food.

This is not the Cannabis that is to be smoked. This is a natural resource that was made illegal because it was too much competition for the petro-chemical industry.

Go to: www.jackherer.com as a starting point to learn what this plant is and what it can do.

We will have to change our lifestyle, there's no doubt about that. But Hemp can make that transition much easier.

Skywolf.

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» RE: Hemp Posted by: Johnny Hempseed
Mankind's arrogance
Posted by: Craig Moore on Jan 9, 2007 8:04 AM   
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If we can't change Nature's climate cycles that have been occurring for hundreds of million years, why aren't we focusing on adapting and surviving the inevitable? The Houston Chronicle has this story: http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/nation/4455886.html

Without a shred of a doubt mankind is contributing to the climate change process. However, there is no 10, 20,... or other tipping point as Nature will do what she has always done. Perhaps the place to start is to grapple with the population issue and the resources necessary to sustain a viable number under changed conditions.

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» RE: Mankind's arrogance Posted by: jack alexander
Birth Control measure that needs global support
Posted by: kuro_neko on Jan 9, 2007 8:17 AM   
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The IUD has come a Long way in the past 30 years. Check out the 99+% effective, *non-hormonal* Paragard. After having my first child, this was the best decision I ever made. No worries or fuss.

We should see more of a push for this instead of hormonal Pills (or dangerous Deprovera or patches) that end up in our water supply...Paragard, once in place...provides the woman 10 years of not having to worry about becoming pregnant. The convenience of tubal-ligation w/o the permanence or surgery, and it can be removed by a doctor at any time w/in those 10 years if need be.

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Weather Warfar
Posted by: mite on Jan 9, 2007 8:43 AM   
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If one controls the Money, Energy, and The Weather" one controls the last (2) needs for survival of mankind: Water-Food.

Do not believe Gore's B_S, it is another source of making money and hiding the truth. Research history and the following references.

Weather Warfar... by Jerry Smith go to his web site and read his book. He supply's documented proof from Congress and other governments documentation. (Russia)

Search: Weather as a Force Multiplier: Owning the Weather in 2025 August, 1996 Air Force 2025

Search: Air Force Manual 15-129, June 21, 2004- Air and Space Weather Operations- Processes and Procedures

www.carnicom.com

Check out the United States Patent Office search patent Number 4,686,605 August 11, 1987

Katrina may have been created and controlled by this science. Oh No, not our military!

Look individuals already control the money, media, government, and now control the weather. Do you not see what is happening here? You better stop denying this people. If you fail yourself, what about our children.

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Energy consumption isn't the only problem
Posted by: Old Skeptic on Jan 9, 2007 9:21 AM   
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We quite correctly worry about energy consumption and its effect on the climate, but at some point we MUST come to grips with the fact that overpopulation is one of the biggest culprits. As much energy as we Americans use--and waste--it would be even worse if our population were double or triple what it is. The problem is that this may indeed happen in the foreseeable future if immigration continues at its curent excessive pace. And immigration in turn is fueled by overpopulation in the Third World countries from which the immigrants come.

At some point, the human race must either rein in its fecundity and adopt a policy of only replacing existing people as mortality overtakes us all, or the planet will become almost uninhabitable and Mother Nature will reduce our numbers in her own less-than-humane manner.

It is overpopulation that is driving the destruction of the world's forests, which could be absorbing a lot of the greenhouse gasses. If our forests were left alone, we'd surely have less of a problem, although it wouldn't eliminate it entirely. We must stabilize our numbers and then work to reduce them to a more supportable number, otherwise, mindless overbreeding will negate any other actions that we may take to try to solve the climate problem.

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The winds of change – either we ride them, or they blow us away.
Posted by: monkeywrench on Jan 9, 2007 9:21 AM   
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The rapidly-evolving crisis of chaotic environmental change (the real problem of global warming) is going to force us to seriously contemplate just what constitutes a fulfilling and enjoyable life. Is it an endless supply of techno-toys and cheap plastic crap? Is it being able to drive monster vehicles to feed our infantile macho ego trips? (C'mon; NOBODY needs a Hummer to deliver the kids to school!) Is it living "Lifestyles of the Rich & Famous?" Or, is a fulfilling and enjoyable lifestyle far more basic, like having valuable work, being creative, laughing, enjoying each other's company, being relatively free from disease and hunger and fear – or simply being free?

We have become enslaved by our possessions, and have done so in part as a result of lifetimes of operant conditioning through corporate advertising (sit down someday and actually analyze just how much you are subjected to advertising; the total will absolutely shock you!). We are Pavlovian dogs salivating at WalMart. And for what? The profit of others, those individuals and corporations who are in the 1% wealthy class – and into whose club the 99% will never be admitted, no matter how many bromides to that effect entertainment feeds us.

We have been conditioned, as well, to believe that the economic system currently in vogue, the lassaiz-faire capitalistic model which requires constantly expanding production and consumption, is the only model that works. It is not. Don't get me wrong; I'm not wedded to any archaic communist ideals. But it should be obvious that, for many reasons, environmental degradation and resource inequality being two of them, the system we love is no longer working.

It is time to literally rethink how we all, especially we in the wealthy (and gluttonous) nations, live our lives. The changes required will be monumental; but may be less painful in the long run than we fear. However, if we don't make them, Mother Earth will change our lives for us, whether we like it or not – and Mother's changes most certainly will NOT be pleasant.

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Too little too late
Posted by: Glennk1949 on Jan 9, 2007 9:45 AM   
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By the time anything much is done it will be far too little and far too late. If u live like I do on a barrier Island enjoy this moment because in a few short decades these Islands will be going under the waves. The Oceans will rise and that's just the tip of the Ice berg of global warming.

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» RE: Too little too late: Sure it is... Posted by: JimTheAnarchist
Al Gore = Paul Revere? You gotta
Posted by: SamFox on Jan 9, 2007 10:17 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
be kiddin'. Al Gore is more like Harry Anslinger or Hurst, the newspaper buffoon, er tycoon, from the '30's. These guys gave us Reefer Madness. Now they who control the media are giving us the same kind of propaganda by 'tell the same lie often enough'... style.

For another point of view-

http://www.google.com/search?q=global+ warming&btnG=Search&domains=http%3A%2F%2
Fwww.newswithviews.com&sitesearch=http%3
A%2F%2Fwww.newswithviews.com

When copying & pasting the link, delete the spaces at the end of the sections. The above is a single link, but this site thinks it's one long word.

I really do not mean to stir up any thing. But by now we should know better than to trust mainstram media when they keep pounding us with the same thing over & over & do not publish much in the way of an opposing view. That was one of the ways we got Reefer Madness & the lost war on drugs that have resulted in hundreds of thousands non-violent users/possesors being locked up. Opposing views at Senate hearings were not allowed. Even though those contradicting Harry & Hurst were credible researchers armed with the truth about MJ. All this to out law hemp...

To me the biggest 'tell' is that one of the big "answers" to GW is when we are told we must give up some national sovreingty to the UN via the Kyoto Accord. (Any one know why China is not being pushed to sign on?) Like in the Reefer Madness days we were told that we had to give up personal liberty to the Feds who were so bravely fighting the war of freedom they call the war on drugs. When the media tells us directly or tacitly we gotta give up something 'for our own good' I always get suspicious.

PLEASE, before any one gets up in arms over how stupid you think I am, check out the link.

At the bottom of the NWVs page (newswithviews.com) find the site search box & enter 'drug war' or 'war on drugs' after reading about GW. Do the same if the above link does not work. Just enter 'global warming'.

Just a fool on a hill. Watching...
And it's not Capitol Hill, either. :-) We have so many fools up in there...trying to make us into the kind of fools the Beatles were not talking about. "Biggot Piggies" is their theme song.

SamFox

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» RE: Al Gore = Paul Revere? You gotta Posted by: JimTheAnarchist
» newswithviews.com is a joke Posted by: lessbread
End of times
Posted by: Ambrose Pare on Jan 9, 2007 10:33 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I can't see humanity being completely wiped out.
But there is certainly going to be a massive reduction in population.

Imagine all the disease, anarchy, and death of hurricane Katrina but on a global scale.

People killing each other for water. Feces and waste mixing to form a toxic sludge that surrounds us.

Disease will run rampent. Can you imagine all the horrid diseases. Ebola, Tuberculosis, Leprosy, Parsites, Aids, Cancer, and Plague.

Were already seeing 1 out of 2 people get cancer, and our drug companies have sat around all day bangin' the dog. TB is making a huge comeback, and there are no real cures for anything.

This is the best and worst time to be alive.

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» RE: nd of times Posted by: DaBear
On this issue...
Posted by: vangogh69 on Jan 9, 2007 10:57 AM   
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Definately the US is contributing to the global warming crisis disproportionately and if anyone should take the lead on this issue, it's (North) America. That said, what we're arguing for is really a change in consciousness. Meaning what?

For starters, Americans will have to give up their car-dependent lifestyles which will be a revolution in city planning, job locations, and zoning restrictions. Secondly, Americans will have to give up their consumptive lifestyles which tell them they need every new gadget the commercials tell them will make them happy AND, will have to lose the desire to have pomegranates in December (!) in Ohio. Americans will have to change the way they live, their desires, and their expectations that the world will provide for them each and everything they want.

As far as Al Gore goes, man, he can go fuck himself. Where was his climate change danger when he allowed himself to be passed over for the Presidency by a man that he knew (?) was war-mongering and pro-Wallstreet. All of this shit is connected and maybe if he'd had some backbone, he could be making his arguments from the Oval Office where he'd be in a position to actually implement some of the changes he (now) seeks. We all make mistakes but Gore, through your silence and acquiescence of criminals, condoned/condones so much. Just saying, Gore, don't speak out of both holes when you talk...it all ends up coming out as bullshit.

My 2 Cents.

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» RE: On this issue... Posted by: DaBear
repackaging al gore
Posted by: wleming on Jan 9, 2007 11:33 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Gore has now been repackaged from sycophant loser to
a feel good Green guru---but the sad fact remains, and take
a brief look at his voting record to prove it: he helped countless
corporate polluters to bigger profits and tax breaks.

Compromised, doest even begin to sound the depths of
Gore.

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» RE: repackaging al gore Posted by: makeadifference
» RE: repackaging al gore Posted by: DaBear
repackaging al gore
Posted by: wleming on Jan 9, 2007 11:33 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Gore has now been repackaged from sycophant loser to
a feel good Green guru---but the sad fact remains, and take
a brief look at his voting record to prove it: he helped countless
corporate polluters to bigger profits and tax breaks.

Compromised, doest even begin to sound the depths of
Gore.

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maninmoon
Posted by: maninmoon on Jan 9, 2007 12:07 PM   
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The only real solution is the one you hear the least about. Overpopulation of course. Humans breed like rats but do far greater damage. Yet, you never hear about it. Why? ...Consumers! Since our governments are basically controlled by the largest and wealthiest of corporations, fewer consumers represent a loss of potential income. So the "family" is revered and promoted as the best thing possible.
Another horror that never ends is that every woman wants and needs to have... A BABY. Oh aren't they darling? Well they all grow up, something most women fail to even seem to think about. Millions of spoiled rotten "babies" that become brats, sulking bitter teens, "gangstas", delinquents, theives, schitzophenics, bankers, (licensed theives) crackheads, rednecks, politicians, molesters, self declared "priests" and Men of God, lawyers, winos, perverts, prisoners, welfare queens, long gone daddies, perverted prison guards, profiteering pillars of the community dumping their shit and toxic wastes into anyones backyards but their own.
These are the darling little bundles of joy that everyone insists is their God given right to mass produce one after another because the last one isn't all that cute anymore. And it's encouraged, all because the shareholders demand to see higher profits than the years before and the only way to assure that is more consumers. And it's encouraged by delusional "Men of God", to have the biggest flock of their particular dimwitted denomination.
It's ridiculous.
"Overpopulation" should be taught in schools in place of English since Johnny can't read anyway. Environmentalism should replace math since kids are helpless without calculators. I don't have any kids and I'm proud of it. I have something that I wouldn't trade with any irresponsible parent. I have freedom. Free from the shackles of parenthood. I can pack a bag and move at the drop of a hat, without dragging an anchor full of children.
I wouldn't want any of the current crop of children. For supposedly being the most intelligent animals on earth, "parents" are by far the stupidest, and least responsible. There should be a heavy "baby tax" on every little "consumer" born, and it should be tripled for every second child. Severe penalties and mandatory "neutering" (like dogs) for both parents of a third.
All the talk of getting "better mileage" and turning off the lights is frankly pissing in the wind. We have passed the "tipping point". If you don't believe it, then you are and idiot wearing blinders. Global warming is here and all those toxins are just beginning to reach our aquifers, and all the little indicators we are witnessing will increase expotentially beyond any computer projections. You'll see.
Sound harsh? It's not as harsh as what's coming.

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» RE: maninmoon Posted by: cmaciain
» RE: maninmoon Posted by: DaBear
» RE: maninmoon Posted by: constantreader
» Well put Posted by: grim ripper
» completely agree...except... Posted by: veggiegrrrl
» and also become... Posted by: HeidiLockwood
» RE: maninmoon Posted by: aquaearth
» RE: maninmoon Posted by: candara
» Thank you, maninmoon Posted by: Artemis3
My Head Begins to Hurt As I Read This
Posted by: djnoll on Jan 9, 2007 12:45 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have read much of the comments posted to this article and they are both pro and con. I have spent the last twenty years studying ways to live more gently on this Earth, and I can safely say that there are ways to combat global warming (or just changing weather conditions); address such things as oil depletion and Washington's hypocrises. None of them are easy and none of them are without sacrifice. For the last two years, I have tried to learn how the system works from an academic perspective after having lived within the system as a client for many years because of health problems. I have seen how we Americans have forgotten our strengths and embraced the very weaknesses that have led to the fall of many nations before us. It is time to learn from our mistakes as members of the human race and as living beings on this planet.

By best estimate, we have approximately 10 years to put in place ways to address three problems that will hit home at once: oil depletion, global warming effects, and hundreds of millions of baby boomers retiring worldwide. These three events are as linked as life and death for many reasons, but perhaps the most important two reasons: the money needed to deal with the issues involved will be pulled out of the marketplace in catastophic amounts as required by law, and the experience and knowledge needed will not be in the marketplace because it has retired. Make no mistake, the younger generation with only a few exceptions does not have the education or life experiences, or worse yet the willingness to acquire these things, so it will be up to those of us over 45 to lead. Which, all things considered, is probably only fair since our negligence is getting us in this mess to begin with.

Sacrifice is a word bandied about often by politicians, but sacrifice is what is needed now in reality. It is not just buying a Prius and using public transportation. It is not depending on the Federal Idiots to Bail Us out! It is us bailing us out by taking back our nation at the local level. It means demanding public transportation with public demonstrations, or banning cars in inner cities by city ordinance and making public transportation between cities reasonable and mandatory. It means getting our children back on bikes and on foot to go to the park or the store, not piling them all in the car and driving them every where. It means turning your front and back yards into vegetable and fruit gardens, where you and your family work side by side and talk, instead of ordering out pizza and watching TV. It means making your city councils and county governments pass laws and ordinances that require sustainable agricultural easements for a percentage of land within their borders, and passing laws that stop big corporations from having "personhood" status in your communities. It means demanding that your school districts tell the Feds to take their mindless programs and stuff it, while demanding that teachers teach our children how to think independently again!

Do things that will allow you, your families, and your communities to be completely independent and sustainable so that when these three disasters come together in ten years, you have done all you can to create a quality of life that can survive. If you all did that in your communities, then you could address these issues, dramatically, immediately, and competently. Now is not the time for crisis management, it is the time for leadership and responsible management at the only level which is truly responsive: your hometown communities!

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» Embarrassment Posted by: MAD
» RE: mbarrassment Posted by: MatthewSavage
» RE: mbarrassment Posted by: MAD
» RE: mbarrassment Posted by: MatthewSavage
» RE: mbarrassment Posted by: djnoll
» RE: mbarrassment Posted by: jack alexander
» Yes... Posted by: HeidiLockwood
Sometimes marketing is necessary
Posted by: Gravitas on Jan 9, 2007 1:32 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Maybe Gore is not being so extreme because his camp realizes if too dour a picture is painted, people will go into denial and join the skeptics camp. Politicians have a good sense of what the public will accept. While some environmentalists are willing to go to the extremes of midevil monks, the majority of the public is not. Therefore, they will believe the propaganda from the other side and nothing will be done. Maybe modest changes for a start and new technology is better than nothing at all. (This is from a person who gave up her car, changed all her bulbs, turned off her gas stove, air dries clothes, cut down on consumption of all products and cut meat consumption ((although if I hear one more vegetarian preach I am buying a mink coat!)

"Weight obsession is a social disease. If we cared more about CO2 than BMI there would still be time." (Just imagine billions of dollars a year being put into alternative energy rather than a few shady diet companies!)

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» RE: Sometimes marketing is necessary Posted by: MatthewSavage
» RE: Sometimes marketing is necessary Posted by: jack alexander
» RE: Sometimes marketing is necessary Posted by: MatthewSavage
» RE: Sometimes marketing is necessary Posted by: jack alexander
» Try suicide for permanent CO2 reduction Posted by: chief of okeefe
The Fact Is: No support in the USA for any of this
Posted by: sofla100 on Jan 9, 2007 2:16 PM   
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The current US administration will never support any of this. If anything, they do not agree there is any global warming or any such phenomenon. In fact, they support the opposite, the gutting of EPA rules and standards as much as possible. From a political perspective, unless the Dems take any of this up, nothing will happen. Therefore, there is no leadership in the USA currently for anything against global warming. In fact, to improve the economy and corporate bottom line, Bush would decrease or eliminate all fuel economy standards. After all, they are nothing but "big government," trying to help the "eco-nerds."

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Junk Science
Posted by: gellero on Jan 9, 2007 4:54 PM   
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Don't believe everything you read about 'global warming'

a href="http://www.junkscience.com">junkscience.com = Linked text

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» RE: Junk Science Posted by: Ambrose Pare
» Junk Bloggers Posted by: HeidiLockwood
» RE: Junk Science Posted by: jack alexander
Massive Social Change Required
Posted by: lessbread on Jan 9, 2007 4:55 PM   
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Capitalism is not sustainable by its very nature. It is predicated on infinitely expanding markets, faster consumption and bigger production in a finite planet. And yet this ideological model remains the central organising principle of our lives, and as long as it continues to be so it will automatically undo (with its invisible hand) every single green initiative anybody cares to come up with. It's capitalism or a habitable planet - you can't have both

In a recently published study, experts from the investment bank Goldman Sachs and international political consultants from Washington, London and Singapore named international terror as the number two threat to the global economy. According to the report, only one issue poses a greater threat: raw material shortages and the related high price of oil. The New Cold War: The Global Battle for Natural Resources

If the latter proves the case, and the world suffers radically destructive climate change, then we must recognize that everything that the West now stands for will be rejected by future generations. The entire democratic capitalist system will be seen to have failed utterly as a model for humanity and as a custodian of essential human interests. The end of the West as we know it?

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» and further still... Posted by: HeroesAll
» RE: and further still... Posted by: lessbread
the solution
Posted by: dbaker on Jan 9, 2007 4:56 PM   
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human excrement + nuclear waste = hydrogen

dennisbaker2003@hotmail.com

dennis baker

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increments
Posted by: Gregor on Jan 9, 2007 5:26 PM   
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Aesops Fable where the crow gets what he wants out of a bottle filled with water by putting one pebble, then another pebble, then another and gradually gets his fish. Maybe it was an olive. At any rate, consistency and constancy of effort affect everything. But as far as the leadership starting to commit to helping global warming: they might, if they can charge us more for it. I had our electricity company come to our door and explain very patiently how they are working for more greenhouse emissions, but gee, it is going to cost them so much more and that is something that I as their customer, is going to have to pay...I got the impression I would pay one way or another, but there you go. They might do it, but they will pass all the costs onto you and then we will not be able to afford any lifestyle at all, much less a greenhouse life. The big companies will all jump on the bandwagon because they will have figured out how to charge the consumer more, thus making people unable to afford basic services. The rich will look like greenhouse saints and the poor are stupid fools for not jumping on board. Same ol' same ol.

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Easy way to reduce future global warming....
Posted by: davcrock on Jan 9, 2007 5:46 PM   
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Turn of your damn computer and quit posting on alternet. Do you know how much energy your personal computer and the servers that run the site take?

Hypocrites.

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» No. Posted by: HeidiLockwood
» RE: No. Posted by: zooeyhall
» Perspective/elaboration Posted by: MartianBachelor
I have it! {Maybe}
Posted by: Krain61 on Jan 9, 2007 6:07 PM   
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We could go back to carburetor's and force the oil company to bring back the patent on it where we could get from 60 to 90 miles to a gallon..Get out Iraq and the war biz and use that money to put up wind towers which could easily be put between the hy-ways. Stop using Chemical on our food which may I add is not good what so ever for us and would use very little energy even if still mechanized..
Use solar anywhere possible..Fuel cells..Use trains more instead of trucks..{dam I just put my self out of work}{I hate it anyhow}Build the fast electromagnetic rail for domestic travel instead of flying..Use fuel cells and or in combination with hybrids engines for ship travel..Redesigned the hot air ship..I like taking life slow anyhow..It eases stress and would create jobs..
Start growing a victory garden..Maybe you might find you enjoy the outdoors and turn off the A/C..Worth a shot..There is teach out there to burn coal but put the bad part back in the ground just like we take oil out.. Stop using things that have chemical! they need processing..Stop eating processed food..That's not good for you or your environment..Waisted energy! And the list really goes on but then again we Americans like to waist..Wait a minute! You Americans like to waist..I don't have electricity.Only drive my car 70 miles a week..It's my job that uses it..I've been down sized before and will survive again if needed..Are you ready to give up something? Anything? I went a year without electric.Not hard.

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Yet another inconvenient truth...
Posted by: Pat Kittle on Jan 9, 2007 6:11 PM   
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This global warming debate is typical:

-----Side A: "So what" money-mongers who can never be sure enough global warming is happening, but blithely allow that even if it is, it's not anthropogenic (human caused), and even if it is anthropogenic, it may be good for us, and even if it isn't good for us, we can't do anything about it, and even if we can do something about it, it's more profitable (in the short term) not to.

-----Side B: Eco-weenies like Al Gore and Robert Kennedy, Jr. and their lists of "Things you can do to save the Earth" with no mention of ecologically-based birth control.

Midway in his movie Gore identified 3 causes of global warming, emphasizing #1 is overpopulation. Now THERE'S an "inconvenient truth" for you! A little too inconvenient for Al, as it turns out -- he ends his movie with the ol' list of "Things you can do to save the Earth" without (you guessed it!) one word about stopping human overbreeding!

Why this insane disconnect?

Maybe guilt gets in the way here -- Al had 4 kids. If everyone behaved like that, world population would double every generation. RFK, Jr. had 6 kids. You do the math.

We probably all know people we care about with big families, and we're afraid we might lay guilt trips on them if we discuss overpopulation. So we stay in rigid denial about dealing with our #1 problem.

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» What planet are YOU from? Posted by: NowYogi
AMERIKA ?
Posted by: Willhartig on Jan 9, 2007 6:39 PM   
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To inform AL GORE and others , yes we are in a time of EARTH changes but the real problem is we live on a young Earth , less than 8,000 years old .we have changes due to solar sunspots & activity ! source see book " solar Rain " or NASA . even controls our weather . Also we need carbon monoxide for plants and trees to drink up all they can get to create the oxygen we need.....The book by George Orwell (1984) says he who controls the past , controls the present . Gore wants to be a leader of the comming ONE WORLD GOVNERMENT !!!!!!!WAKE UP !!!!!!! AMERIKA !!!!

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» More Junk Bloggers Posted by: HeidiLockwood
» What planet are you from? Posted by: NowYogi
Massive sacrifice only possible in a dictatorship
Posted by: chief of okeefe on Jan 9, 2007 7:29 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Finally, someone looked up and noticed the gorilla in the china shop. If the causes of global warming are human CO2 emissions, then you can forget massive reductions in CO2 emissions without dictatorship and/or mass elimination of human population.

Of course, when the GW-is-ending-the-world folks speak, it reminds me of the chicken-hawk war supporters. They keep talking about the emergency without talking about some obvious and easy solutions: mass homicide, maybe with some suicide mixed in.

But there are other methods that do not require mass cooperation, and they are pretty easy technically. How about this one: cut back solar energy gain to equalize the reduction in heat loss? This could be done by govts alone, even democratic ones. Every 5 years just 3 weeks before autumnal equinox (Sept 1 in northern hemisphere) blow up a few hundred semi-buried nukes in the Sahara, blowing dust and crap into the stratosphere. This will cause severe cut in solar radiation that fall, resulting in much colder and longer winter, allowing polar ice to re-form and grow back. Keep repeating treatment as necessary. Do it in early fall when main growing season is over (since we are cutting back the light available for agriculture). Dont want to starve folks.

If this is a real "emergency" then crazy desperate measures that do not require dictatorship or genocide need to be considered.

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» On blowing up nukes in the Sahara... Posted by: HeidiLockwood
» Just what we need Posted by: NowYogi
This discussion and people's energy needs to focus on solutions
Posted by: BrightGreenMan on Jan 9, 2007 7:33 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Folks,

With the greatest respect, I see the Gore bashing as misplaced. I would personally doubt that this many people would be this passionate if Gore hadn't helped to spread the right message that got your creative juices flowing, so he has already achieved the right outcome which is that discussions and articles like this are occuring that include not only the previous Gen X and Y greenies but also many new converts.

Now to the point... We have to focus on Demand Management and Supply Management.

Supply Management is fairly easy for governments to tip the playing field in favor of energy production mechanisms that are cleaner, and tax the others until they are no longer economic. Clearly a similar approach could be taken to using the Trillions of dollars in Venture Capital currently undeployed since the dotcom bust towards innovative techniques that would create new innovative supply networks for energy.

Demand management seems to me to apply to both institutions and individuals. It is the behavior of individuals in the G7 in the context of their roles at home and at work that have created the demand, so it follows that their behavior is what must be altered in order to reduce demand.

So let's say that a set of techniques and technologies already exist already that allow for massive reductions in demand in the workplace and in the home. What are these ?

In the workplace :-

Data Center Virtualization, Sun's Project BlackBox, Desktop Virtualization. Turning the lights off when people aren't in the building, Turning the heating down when people aren't in the building. Use High Definition Video Conferencing instead of flying etc etc etc

In the Home.

Solar Panels, Geothermal heating, Computer virtualization, electric cars etc. etc.

On Population

Reward people for not having children or having less children. Completely change the tax breaks system.

This requires that the country and the G7 make it a priority for politicians and business leaders to act and create a blueprint for the future that is based on sustainable goals, encouraging the right behaviors and discouraging or penalizing the wrong ones. I also believe that audit and finance committees of public companies need to extend their governance remit to planetary sustainability. It is also clear that this is a requirement that is much bigger than a 4 year political agenda and needs to be driven in a cross partisan way to establish operating principles or a constitution for the planet.

People are simple, they will do what is in their best interest so if we change the rules and provide incentives they will follow if history is a predictor of future behavior.

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» Uh-huh Posted by: HeidiLockwood
bread crumbs
Posted by: A Person on Jan 9, 2007 9:40 PM   
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People were cheering because in this day and age, just having a political leader awknowledge global warming is a breath of fresh air. It's condescending to assume these people aren't willing to go beyond that, but there needs to be a clear and consistant message to emerge from all that conflicting media dirge in order for the masses to really know where to go. Someone else might have all the answers, but until we can hear it, what good does it do?

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» A Clear and Consistant Message Posted by: HeidiLockwood
Austerity?
Posted by: NowYogi on Jan 10, 2007 1:58 AM   
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Thirty years ago I decided not to have children because I felt there was a over-population problem. I also got rid of my car and got a bike because I wanted not to contribute to air pollution. I have sacraficed ALOT! No relationship...no woman wants a poor loser without a car. No career...no car limited my options beyond measure.

I cannot imagine people following my example...I am now a very unhappy person because of my decisions. I am now 60 and regret my save-the-planet efforts! I was a fool...

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» RE: Austerity? Posted by: djnoll
» RE: Austerity? Posted by: MartianBachelor
» RE: Austerity? Posted by: djnoll
» RE: Austerity? Posted by: MatthewSavage
too many
Posted by: candara on Jan 10, 2007 2:37 AM   
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I was upset to read about a new group of women (they have a forum) that want HUGE families. By breeding. It said that celebrities have started this trend, even though many of them are also adopting. Thanks to science humans are living longer; and in many ways are no longer subjected to natural selection nor a natural 'thinning of the herd'. As such, they should be intelligent enough to keep the herd thin by choice. Unfortunately, that's not the case. And perhaps a group should form so that people can start writing articles, etc. (to editors) explaining that it's not enough that families make a lot of money before having many children. The earth needs to be able to afford it, too. And that's not the case. I read so many articles where the writer basically says "it's okay they're having ten children, they have the money". I also have opted out of the ridiculous and neanderthal need to "pass my genes on".

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No magic bullet - Always need multiple approaches
Posted by: DivaCleavage on Jan 10, 2007 6:19 AM   
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There is no ONE THING that will fix it all.
Little things we all do, decisions we make daily, little changes, PLUS changes to policy (emissions, real birth control options, etc), infrastructure changes, new approaches, are all needed to make a real overall impact and change.
Sure, Americans may be stupid, lazy and selfish, but we're also creative, energetic, generous, and have a sense of patriotism and world unity, when it comes down to it. So, it's how it's marketed and presented that will make the difference. L-E-A-D-E-R-S-H-I-P is the key word here.

When I was stationed in Germany, and a train went by, we all turned off our motors. Nobody does that here. Why not? They don't even think about it. Post a friggin' sign! I liked being able to get on a train and go ANYWHERE in the country, then switch to public transportation once I got there. Why the hell is that not possible here? It's nuts. I would actually travel to the cities more if I could just easily get on a train and go there.

The SUV craze was the most horrifying thing I saw happen here. I didn't "get it" and it made me sick.

We do alot of dumb things - but it takes the smarter/inventive ones among us to show another way, and get everyone else on the wagon, and make it happen. This forum is one of many out there discussing this and that is all good!!!! Even our discontent and dissent is good - it will propel some of us to do something and some of us to be nasty enough one day to make another person say "f*&k you, I AM doing something!"

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Climate Change 2.0! World Wide Flood.
Posted by: williameon on Jan 10, 2007 8:03 AM   
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Talking about:
Reversing the effects of global warming is folly!
Preparing for the coming change is the only reasonable solution.
The poles are migrating to a new position.
Until the ice caps reform in that new position, we must deal with the consequences.
What happens when all the ice melts in your cooler?
The cooler gets hotter.
That is what is happening now.
The ice is melting, so there is nothing to cool the air.
For every foot of sea level rise there is a corresponding loss of 25 foot of coast line.
The combined effect of the melting of the glaciers and poles at the same time will be:
A sea level rise of 50+ feet within twenty years.
The corporations are fully aware of this.
We are the victums.
They are devesting themselves from the consequences and also bregun fighting over the spoils.
One example, new gold rush in the Artic.
Any system that's based on a negative human trait such as greed will fail.
It fails the general population as a whole while benifiting the very few:
They keep you in the dark while morgaging your future.
Pitance for the Rich anyone!
What has to be done?
1 Relocate populations from the flooding coastline.
2 Deversify, food producing resources.
3 Create regional food and tool banks.
4 End the rebuilding of any city destroyed by flood.
5 Reinstitute all polution law.
6 Bring the troops home to help speed the transformation.
On the East Coast, the coming changes:
Will have the greatest effect.
Long Island, Conn., Fla., and New York City itself will mainly disappear.
The change is coming.
Are you ready?
It is a freight train on the horizon!
Barreling down on humanity!
Will it destroy us ?
Or will we get off the tracks?
The possibility of slowing it down is over.
Face the facts.
Deal with the result.
Climate change 2.0

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Earth has million times bigger chance to became a snow ball
Posted by: ng1944 on Jan 10, 2007 8:54 AM   
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In billions years this planet was frosen hundreds if not thousand of times, but never was it too hot.
Follow Gore and pretty soon You will have to register
Your freezer, washer, drier, lawnmower, snow blower,
TV set, computer, microvave and all other gadgets
that using electricity or gas or even wood.
Cigarets, wooden stoves, grills and anything that contaminates
air will be forbidden.
You will have to register it with government and pay steep taxes and penalties on each of them.
Your car will be confiscated from You, and only very rich
will be able to afford huge taxes on cars, also government
will be exempt.
This is not a fantasy, read Kioto protocols.
This is just another idea, how to control population.
Because if they tell You that they are going to take away
Your car, You will be against it,
but if they tell You it will save the planet,
You will vote with two hands for it.
But the end will be the same.

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Perhaps you are just selfish
Posted by: Alienbuddha on Jan 10, 2007 9:42 AM   
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I am selfish. Aren't you? All this talk about switching to green alternative technologies and focusing on important political strategies in order to save the world is just a bunch of shiny bullshit designed to mask the fact that we are, in fact, doomed as a species of intelligent? animals. This society is not sustainable, period, and no amount of technological or political fixes will save it from self destruction. Not only that, but those of us who actually refrain from consumption and procreation are only temporarily making the world a better place for such vividly intelligent people such as those who believe in a "savior" or a "god" or whatever the hell religious individuals make-up in their weird little societies and choose to believe in in order to mask their terror of death. Essentially the intelligent people are choosing to reduce the population level while the morons are popping out babies at a rapid and uncontrollable rate, literally littering the streets with crying infants and poopy diapers for us to wade through on our way to our bicycles. Don't get me wrong, I love kids.

All this said, I believe the only really progressive action worth doing is the constant work of trying to perfect yourself. This is the only sustainable way of creating a society that is not completely mad and consumed with fear and consumer lust. It's like tending the soil rather then the plant. I mean, haven't all of you heard the bible story about the idiot who built his house on sand?! Christ, if there is no rock to build on, inevitably you will be washed away!

Some of the wise teachers such as Jesus or Buddha were smart, the followers not so much. Same with some of those trying to enlighten society about the coming disaster, the end of our easy oil age. The followers say, "Goodness, Bob, that was just a spot-on DVD and don't I feel so with it and hip and maybe I should go down to Whole Foods and buy me up some organic cheezy poofs. What do you think, Bob, should we hop in our biodioesel SUV and go down to our yoga teacher's chalet and stuff Haagen Daaz up our butts? I hear that's good for the colon..." Mostly people don't want to do anything at all and that includes you and me. I'd rather drink beer and watch "The King of Queens" reruns any day rather then save the world. What's out there worth saving?

What isn't?! What is it we're even alive for? Just to stuff ourselves with fries, drive around our cities, move some stuff from one place to another, have a couple babies, make a nice thingy, then die? What is the point? I think it's impossible to seperate all of our environmental and societal problems from our spiritual and philosophic questions.

Which brings me back to my point. Look at Katrina. Most people don't even a three days supply of food and water at their home. Most people don't know how to live without electricity or other conveniences for more then a few days. If in our "first world" country we can't even save our own citizens from themselves, how do you suppose we can help anybody throughout the rest of the world? When the oil crisis becomes real to everyone, and food, water, and fuel becomes scarce, then there will be a massive die-back. People will not be able to survive in certain climates. So basically it's a question of whether you think you will survive or not. Happy trails.

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» RE: Perhaps you are just selfish Posted by: Alienbuddha
Perhaps you are just selfish
Posted by: Alienbuddha on Jan 10, 2007 9:44 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am selfish. Aren't you? All this talk about switching to green alternative technologies and focusing on important political strategies in order to save the world is just a bunch of shiny bullshit designed to mask the fact that we are, in fact, doomed as a species of intelligent? animals. This society is not sustainable, period, and no amount of technological or political fixes will save it from self destruction. Not only that, but those of us who actually refrain from consumption and procreation are only temporarily making the world a better place for such vividly intelligent people such as those who believe in a "savior" or a "god" or whatever the hell religious individuals make-up in their weird little societies and choose to believe in in order to mask their terror of death. Essentially the intelligent people are choosing to reduce the population level while the morons are popping out babies at a rapid and uncontrollable rate, literally littering the streets with crying infants and poopy diapers for us to wade through on our way to our bicycles. Don't get me wrong, I love kids.

All this said, I believe the only really progressive action worth doing is the constant work of trying to perfect yourself. This is the only sustainable way of creating a society that is not completely mad and consumed with fear and consumer lust. It's like tending the soil rather then the plant. I mean, haven't all of you heard the bible story about the idiot who built his house on sand?! Christ, if there is no rock to build on, inevitably you will be washed away!

Some of the wise teachers such as Jesus or Buddha were smart, the followers not so much. Same with some of those trying to enlighten society about the coming disaster, the end of our easy oil age. The followers say, "Goodness, Bob, that was just a spot-on DVD and don't I feel so with it and hip and maybe I should go down to Whole Foods and buy me up some organic cheezy poofs. What do you think, Bob, should we hop in our biodioesel SUV and go down to our yoga teacher's chalet and stuff Haagen Daaz up our butts? I hear that's good for the colon..." Mostly people don't want to do anything at all and that includes you and me. I'd rather drink beer and watch "The King of Queens" reruns any day rather then save the world. What's out there worth saving?

What isn't?! What is it we're even alive for? Just to stuff ourselves with fries, drive around our cities, move some stuff from one place to another, have a couple babies, make a nice thingy, then die? What is the point? I think it's impossible to seperate all of our environmental and societal problems from our spiritual and philosophic questions.

Which brings me back to my point. Look at Katrina. Most people don't even a three days supply of food and water at their home. Most people don't know how to live without electricity or other conveniences for more then a few days. If in our "first world" country we can't even save our own citizens from themselves, how do you suppose we can help anybody throughout the rest of the world? When the oil crisis becomes real to everyone, and food, water, and fuel becomes scarce, then there will be a massive die-back. People will not be able to survive in certain climates. So basically it's a question of whether you think you will survive or not. Happy trails.

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Bring back railroads?
Posted by: zooeyhall on Jan 10, 2007 12:13 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I live in rural Nebraska, in a town of about 500 people. If you ever get out to rural Nebraska, you will notice that there are towns spaced about every 10 miles or so along the highways. This is because in the pioneer days, it was the railroads that first came into this country. And trains in those days could go maybe 10 miles or so before needing to refuel, take on water, etc. These stops are where towns tended to be founded, because that is where local farmers could bring livestock to ship to the metro areas, merchants got their supplies, etc.

All though I am 51, I can just barely remember when we had a train stop in our town. I believe that last run was in 1962, but my parents and older siblings often talked about how they travelled on it. My Dad, who was a farmer, often talked about how he drove cattle to town to be loaded at the local siding for transport to the stockyards in Omaha. Everything my town and the local businesses and people needed were sustained quite well by this system.

Then in the 60's it seemed like trucking took over.

There is still the old railroad right-of-way running through my farmland.

It seems to me that bringing back railroads would be the perfect solution for rural and sparsely populated areas like where I live. There wouldn't be all the trucking, which seems to me to be terribly wasteful of fuel. There wouldn't be the need for massive and continuous road improvements to sustain the trucking system of transport.

If railroads worked in the old days for towns like where I live, think how much better they could provide today--with the hugh improvements in railroad technology. Engines, railcars, track building techniques are all way ahead of what they were 50 years ago.

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» RE: Bring back railroads? Posted by: djnoll
» RE: Bring back railroads? Posted by: richholland
END PRIVATE JETS
Posted by: gellero on Jan 10, 2007 4:16 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think the democratic majority should show their concern by giving up personal jet aircraft. What a waste of fuel. And think of the emissions! Al Gore should be the first !

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*How* many tons per capita?
Posted by: nappingbunyip on Jan 10, 2007 5:04 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Currently, global carbon emissions are about 7 billion tons, roughly, 1 ton per person. But the average American generates, directly and indirectly, some 10 tons per capita

I'm pretty sure it's around 20 tons per capita annually for the US which can be verified by a quick google. But hey, what's a factor of 2 between polluters?

CO2 by country

All Greenhouse gases by country (woohoo the Aussies win again!)

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PROGRESSIVES and CENTRISTS must hasten to battle each other, it is the will of the LORD YOUR GOD!
Posted by: WizardofArmaggedon on Jan 11, 2007 1:46 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is COMFORTING to know that a lot of you LEFTIST HIPPY PERVERTS and PROGRESSIVE FEAR-MONGERERS hate each other and will continue to do so until the END OF THE WORLD! FOR YOU SEE, this will allow all of us desiring to follow in God's footsteps to thrive and master the world as is commanded in the ONE AND TRUE BOOK, THE HOLY BIBLE. THE MAGICAL SPELL of GLOBAL WARMING will certainly be proven a silly and trifling hoax by our well-trained wizards and scientists in the coming days, and some of you will be CONSUMED with a gnawing and all-cosuming existential despair and either commit mass suicide or begin to battle eachother with a geeky hippy fierceness previously unkown to mankind! GATHER YEE ROSEBUDS AS YEE MAY! There is no turning back now! We are on the righteous and BEAUTIFUL path toward ARMAGEDDON, and I am the WIZARD!

Follow me to my newly created nest of TRUTH and HOPE!
http://thewizardofarmageddon.blogspot.com/

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» HA! Posted by: faeriefangs
A few thoughts
Posted by: Adams on Jan 11, 2007 7:53 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As a progressive/anti-capitalist, I have always thought that the WSF should be held on-line and coordinated with many local actions. We should show our values through action, not just words. How else can we create a just society?
I also think that we need to come up with proposals for new housing arrangements in the first world. I live in Taiwan, but just finished a trip back to America. The suburbs seem so wasteful. One or two people living in a 3-story house.

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» RE: A few thoughts Posted by: richholland
» RE: A few thoughts Posted by: djnoll
» RE: A few thoughts Posted by: Adams
» RE: A few thoughts Posted by: djnoll
Situation truly hopeless; here’s why.
Posted by: kumbiya on Jan 13, 2007 8:49 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I work in alternative and renewable energy field and can tell you why it is impossible to reverse warming from fossil fuels.

Let me illustrate with an example

The state of California has been aptly called ‘the Saudi Arabia of solar power’ Lotsa sun. So, over the past few years, the Gov. and Assembly have tried three times to pass a ‘Million Solar Roofs’ law that would yield many gigawatts of clean cheap energy. Yet, despite strong bipartisan political support all three times, the MSR bill has been defeated. Why? Well, most recently because it reportedly failed to ensure that the solar panel installations would be done by licensed electricians. There was a backroom, committee deal. And the bill was killed--solely because one union notified the politicians of their displeasure.

Well, in reality the electricians were not to blame but were only patsies, as it was really the lobbyists of the power generation industry who always thwart renewable energy.

Multiply this MSR bill example by many others. The underlying reality is that fossil fuel energy industry assets now total in the trillions of dollars, all of it vested in producing greenhouse gases . Really, our whole economy is dependent on it, including millions of blue collar jobs and retirement pensions and stock dividends -- not because other clean and cheap technologies don’t exist, but because corporations are designed solely to maximize return on assets, and they play hardball against all competitors. That’s what corporate executives are paid to do . It’s a very simple matter for them to thwart any govt. or popular movement, or market initiative, or alternative tech. that might stand in the way.

America isn’t really addicted to fossil fuel so much as it is addicted to easy profits from accumulated assets. The best kind of income comes from recurring regular effortless sales, such as from gas pumps and natural gas pipelines, yielding billions and billions in sales, for all transportation, heating and power generation..

Monbiot and AlGore are thus focusing on the wrong players. Consumer behavior has nothing to do with solving the problem! People are going to use pretty much the same heat or electricity every day, and travel the same distance, because their lives and livelihoods are constructed on this, and people have little or no flexibility. We buy the heat, electricity and transpo that is sold to us, and have almost no choice in how it is produced—because that is left entirely to the corporate profit motive. Believe me, no CEO in America or anywhere else will tell his board, “We’re going to sacrifice our profits for the next few decades (and lose your huge incentive bonuses and mine) because that’s the responsible, long term thing to do.” It just ain’t gonna happen. Instead, they will do the very OPPOSITE and say, “We’ve got a global crisis—better we make ALL the cash we can, ASAP, before the crash hits!”

And THAT, folks, is why this situation is hopeless. And no politician can buck this either.

Our global rulers at the CFR know all this, and are undoubtedly planning for the inevitable massive global depopulation that is coming, one way or another.

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i don't that much about the science behind global warming....
Posted by: nicolemiaz on Jan 13, 2007 9:57 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
or what the 'best' way to go about it is, but in response to the parts about al gore in this article, i just want to say: don't underestimate the power of simply bringing the issue to the surface. Yes, reducing your thermostat and things that gore suggests aren't going to do a whole lot in comparison to other things we could be doing, but at least it gets people to start thinking about how they can live more responsibly. there are those who are never going to do anything major about global warming, maybe because they have other issues they care about more or they 'don't have the time.' so at the very least, i think, what gore is appealing to, is to just start thinking about it in your daily life and to spread the word. it's amazing what a little bit of education can end up doing. i think we need both tactics; gore's and monbiot's to reach everyone.

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Truth about global warming
Posted by: bravemonk199 on Feb 1, 2007 10:41 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
FACT not fiction

I just happen to know a thing or two about earth science so I will answer the "global warming" question. Is there global warming? Yes. Is man driving his big SUV to blame? Yes, about 8%. Let me explain. The earth is a living planet. If man and animal was not here, the earth would still go through changes and evolve. When Mount St.Helens erupted in 1980, it sent more ash and gases into the upper atmosphere in 20 minutes than if you ran every automobile 24-hours a day for 100 years. Then consider the forest fires we have that burn up thousands of acres of trees and thus change the temp. profiles over that land for years to come. These are but a few basic examples I could mention.

So how much of a role does man play in the global warming game? Not much! Too many other forces are at play that are beyond our control. For Al Gore and his ilk to say that we can "SOLVE" the global warming problem is not only arrogant but just plain stupid. Also stupid are the ones who buy into the theory that we have control over the basic forces that sustain this planet.

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Too Many Convenient Truths
Posted by: QuantumPolitic on Feb 22, 2007 10:38 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
      I totally agree that the whole story needs to be told concerning global warming.  For instance, George F. Will in his column The Last Word, did a great job of framing a trick question in the form of an answer when he wrote on “Inconvenient Koyoto Truths” (Feb 12 Newsweek).  He is not the only one. There are other scientists and commentators who have picked apart Al Gore's "Inconvenient Truth".  However, Mr. Will does a better job of defining our "comfort zone fears" than most.
      He discusses the stigmas behind global warming: how people tend to think that human intervention is behind it, but went on to say how this change in climate is well within the range of geological record, and we do not know the amount of actual human contribution behind it, and we do not know the economic cost of correcting it.  Both sides of the debate focus only on differences or similarities, so let me spell it out.  What he does not say that reduction of glacial mass increases the fresh water content, which raises the sea level in places like Florida, New York, and Japan, while at the same time raising the temperature resulting in more frequent and violent hurricanes from Texas to New York.  He also does not say that reduction of glacial mass reduces salinity, which controls things like ocean current speed, which in turn controls fresh upwelling of oxygen that controls the fish population, and fewer fish means more mercury content per fish.  He holds back from mentioning the rate of warming is 10x, 100x, and even 1,000x faster than geological trends and ice records, and how rapid change affects symbiotic species like Elkhorn coral whose migration is generational, but their algae-food migrates immediately based on temperature.  He also does not say that we do know how to slow down carbon output within our economic means through conservation and smart purchases, let alone the advent of recent business strategies and technology working on cellulosic solutions.  He also forgets to point out that we care only about a crisis when it happens due to complacent experts, and the choices we make today not only affect the environment, but our pocketbook.  He also conveniently does not mention that his philosophy is aligned with waiting for mother nature and the economy to correct itself, the opposite of every elementary school book lesson on Edmund Burke’s “The only thing left for the environment to triumph, is for responsible men to say 'there is no problem'”.
      President Hoover subscribed to this “do nothing” attitude over the economy while 10’s of thousands of Americans starved and a business strategist like FDR had to replace him.  In comparison, Bush the lesser subscribes to Preemptive Action only for the Skirmish in Iraq, but continues to disregard Katrina victims, the environment, congressional corruption, the economy, the voters, and the nation.  Mr. Will, when Chicago was a glacier and when the Vikings farmed in Greenland has nothing to do with the negative effect weather can play on our current economic situation.  America believes these convenient truths, like America believes we need a career politician in the Whitehouse.  Yeah; right.  Voters know we need a plan to save us from Terrorism, the looming Oil Crisis, the approaching Economic Winter, Congressional corruption, Social Security bankruptcy, Health Care implosion, and Global Warming disaster preparedness.  Is that "Convenient" enough?  Not to mention our saviors, Obama and Clinton, can't even keep the peace when they should be spending time working on a plan!  Dems fighting right before the gauntlet of crisis!  Great.  Where is someone with answers - an accidental president, non-career politician, business strategist, general, or actor - when you need one?

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