COMMENTS: 150
Why We Love to Hate Hillary
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"It was a quote by Sharon Stone that triggered it," Edwards explained to me. Stone, an actress famous for exposing a different part of her anatomy, had recently expressed doubt that Hillary could become president because "a woman should be past her sexuality when she runs. Hillary still has sexual power, and I don't think people will accept that. It's too threatening."
Edwards says he wanted to imagine Hillary Clinton as president of the United States and created, therefore, a monumental image. "But that wasn't enough," he explains. "I had to make sure she was depicted as a woman, unmistakably a woman. The way I did that was to be more revealing with her breasts than is normally seen."
Edwards' version of Hillary's breasts is where it all gets interesting. He chose not to depict Hillary with bared breasts, in the classical style of Greek sculpture; his Hillary's bust is upheld by a bustier worthy of Victoria's Secret. "I didn't want the sculpture to be titillating or a piece of graphic realism," he explains. "It's more symbolic of womanhood and to reveal her as a woman."
Hillary's "womanhood" is in need of public revelation? What does that say about her? But, more curiously, what does it say about us that Hillary inspires this casual intimacy? Her life, her looks, her politics, her marriage -- and now her breasts -- are all daily grist at the nation's coffee shops, still, 15 years after she was introduced to America. According to one accounting, there are 17,000 websites devoted to Hillary Clinton. And there is really no aspect of our collective fears or furies that cannot be grafted onto her character. Did she refuse to meet with mothers of dead soldiers? Did she kill Vince Foster? Did she get two Black Panthers off on murder charges? Did she cause the Enron scandal?
Despite their proven falseness, such accusations are routinely made because it's easy to mold the facts and fictions of Hillary's life into any kind of argument you like. Even her body has become a public landscape that most Americans feel quite comfortable trekking across in search of cultural clues about ourselves and our politics. Edwards' sculpture merely makes literal this national impulse.
It all began when the nation had regular debates about her hair, but now we're comfortable in our kitchens and on our talk shows presuming any damned thing we want to about her. Is she gay or straight, closet conservative or secret liberal, snarling she-wolf or one smart cookie baker? It isn't only her career as a public figure that's clay in our hands. No part of her life, however sacred, is off-limits. John McCain once got a lot of laughs cracking this joke: "Why is Chelsea Clinton so ugly? Because her father is Janet Reno." Chelsea was still in high school at the time. In 2003 Americans happily participated in a cnn/USA Today/Gallup poll to determine whether Hillary should get a divorce.
In the spring of 2006, the New York Times ran a front-page story that employed investigative journalism tactics to extrapolate the potential number of conjugal visits the Clintons' marital bed hosted each month. Using "interviews with some 50 people and a review of their respective activities," the author concluded: "Since the start of 2005, the Clintons have been together about 14 days a month on average, according to aides who reviewed the couple's schedules. Sometimes it is a full day of relaxing at home in Chappaqua; sometimes it is meeting up late at night. ... Out of the last 73 weekends, they spent 51 together. The aides declined to provide the Clintons' private schedule."
Damn aides.
When Edwards fashioned Hillary into the image that he thought most telling, he was on to something. Hillary is way beyond something so banal as a politician. The details of her life are familiar enough; perhaps that's why all the profiles of her over the last 10 years have always seemed tedious and repetitive. It's how we shape those facts that's interesting. Hillary herself once said she had become some kind of Rorschach blot in which Americans see many things.
Almost every American has an opinion about Hillary. Consider her poll numbers. Hillary Clinton has favorables in the high 40s right now and unfavorables running about even. Her "no opinion" numbers are in the low single digits, approaching zero. Most politicians start with a huge swath of "no opinion" voters whom they can then try to convert. If Hillary runs, she will need to invent a whole new form of campaign strategy: She will need to flip voters who pretty much hate her.
Hillary-hating is such a national pastime, for both Democrats and Republicans, that it should be its own verb: "Hillarating." Typically, even her supporters make the case for her only after plowing through a lot of caveats, lessons learned, and after muttered contempt for some aspect of her person. Hillarating is not like normal political hating -- opposing someone's ideology, for example. Loathing Hillary happens on multiple levels, ranging from her marital choices and fashion sense to her ambivalence on torture or support for a flag-burning amendment. And liberal feminists are as comfortable Hillarating as anyone else, perhaps more so.
"The source of the strong feelings goes all the way back to when we were introduced to her as Bill Clinton's copresident," says Nora Bredes, director of the Susan B. Anthony Center for Women's Leadership in Rochester, New York. After the health care defeat in 1993, Hillary retreated into being a wife and then a proper first lady before emerging again "as an international leader and then in the late '90s re-creating herself as a victim of his infidelity and then again stepping out as a candidate for the Senate," says Bredes. "People get uncomfortable when it's not a neat story. Is she a progressive feminist or a cautious moderate? People don't know exactly who she is, and so different reactions are almost invited."
Not since Richard Nixon has the body politic been treated to so many variations on the same person. "The New New Nixon" was introduced with such frequency once upon a time that it became shorthand for a kind of political marketing joke. Hillary has assumed that cultural niche, always inventing a new look and more "humanized" self for each situation. And in turn, we've seized upon various elements of her changeling character to shape, Ã la Daniel Edwards, our own private Hillarys. She is a Cosmo quiz of an enigma, so let's cut right to the answer key in the back pages and find out what kind of Hillary you see.
The Martha Stewart Hillary: For you, the New York senator is, as Newt Gingrich's mother once observed, "a bitch," or, as William Safire phrased it, "a congenital liar." You tend to relish the catty details that reveal her as a petty-minded overachiever, like when she peevishly denied her ghostwriters writing credit. You believed the 2003 rumor that Wesley Clark had been ordered into the campaign by some Clinton consigliere to serve as her stalking-horse. In the mid-1990s, you wanted to buy that Jerry Falwell tape alleging that she bedded and then killed Vince Foster, had him rolled up in a rug and dumped along the Potomac. You snarkily refer to her by the name that grates most on those who despise her, Hillary Rodham.
The Tammy Wynette Hillary: The famous invocation of the country-western singer happened during a 60 Minutes interview in 1992. Hillary defended her husband's philandering by saying, "I'm not sitting here some little woman, standing by my man like Tammy Wynette." And this is where it can get tricky. Most people forget Hillary's next line: "I'm sitting here because I love him." The cognitive dissonance is confusing, because, of course, that is the Tammy Wynette position ("And tell the world you love him / Keep giving all the love you can"). When she dissed Tammy, she left the impression that the real reason she was standing by Bill was ruthless desire for power. Then after getting into hot water over health care reform, she assumed the Tammy position, that of doggedly loyal wife. This was the Hillary who beamed at Bill's side and cut her hair in a prim, wifely fashion. Amid a flurry of sex scandals that would culminate in Monicagate, this Hillary allowed herself to be photographed in her one-piece bathing suit snogging with Bill on the beach -- causing an entire nation to wince.
The Eleanor Roosevelt Hillary: This Hillary first emerged at her 1969 college graduation, when her commencement speech was considered so controversially feminist that it landed her in the pages of Life magazine. The speech sent Wellesley's president, Ruth Adams, into such a tizzy that, after spotting Hillary swimming, she had a campus security guard run off with her clothes to humiliate her. This is the Hillary who figured out, after the health care train wreck, how to be a good first lady, and quickly became the "Most Admired Woman in America" several years in a row. This Hillary had an office in the East Wing that handled the protocols of napkin folding, and an office in the West Wing that adroitly kept up her silent participation in the crucial political issues of the day.
The Dianne Feinstein Hillary: You see her as a phony centrist always triangulating toward the ideological middle, willing to betray her true liberal self for power.
The Barbara Boxer Hillary: You see her as a phony liberal, always playing to the amen chorus of the far left, willing to betray her true centrist self for power.
The Lisa Simpson Hillary: We're seeing of lot of this conscientious Hillary lately. When she ran for Senate, her critics said she was just running on name recognition. "But she was able to give milk prices to upstate New Yorkers," says Helen Thomas, the former upi reporter who has covered the White House since John Kennedy. "Then, in the Senate, she acted like Rebecca of Sunnybrook Farm, asking experienced Republican senators to 'teach me' how it all works." This is the Hillary who got straight A's; the law school graduate who in 1974 wowed the old D.C. pols on the Watergate Committee; the one who attempted to master health care in 1993; and who in 2000 visited Buffalo 26 times and earned its citizens' votes. This Hillary first appeared at age four when, according to her mom, the future senator confronted the neighborhood's meanest girl bully, knocked her down, and then exclaimed, "I can play with the boys now!"
The Diana Prince Hillary: Bill's wife is the secret identity of Wonder Woman. Is there anything she can't do? Even if you hate her, you admire her fundraising ability and her $8 million book advance. You hear that joke about Bill seeing Hillary chatting with an old boyfriend pumping gas at a filling station and Bill says, "Just think, if you'd married him, you could have been the wife of a gas station attendant," to which Hillary replies, "Bill, if I'd married him, he would have become the president" -- and you think it's just good reporting.
The Lady Macbeth Hillary: You fixate on pictures of Hillary wearing big dark sunglasses, behind which she conspires to take over the world. Ruthless, conniving, calculating, icy, and manipulating, this Hillary crafted that phony post-Monica talking point -- "I could hardly breathe" -- as evidence of her "emotional side." This Hillary spooked her potential senatorial opponent K.T. McFarland, a former Pentagon official, into charging that she "had helicopters flying over my house in Southampton today taking pictures." This Hillary will abandon her principles for short-term political gain and will coldly undercut her oldest friends if need be -- remember Peter and Marian Wright Edelman? This is the Hillary who, hours after hearing the truth about Monica, was in the solarium considering whether to help Bill's speechwriters draft his dodgy confession. This version of the senator is known by the name that elevates her into the pantheon of scheming one-named women such as Medea and Evita. She is, simply, Hillary.
It's not just that Hillary herself is seen in half a dozen ways, but that each variety of Hillary is embraced across the political spectrum. The word-association part of the Hillary Rorschach test fails as political litmus because everyone uses the same essential vocabulary. The language that one expects to hear from her right-wing critics -- that she's untrustworthy, two-faced, opportunistic, and scheming with a hidden agenda -- you are just as likely to hear from other women in power, feminists, and people on the left. You expect to read Wall Street Journal columnist Peggy Noonan calling her a "cynical leftist political operative" who sees "our country as a platform for her core ambitions." But you also get Cindy Sheehan comparing her to Rush Limbaugh; Susan Sarandon complaining, "What America is looking for is authentic people who want to go into public service because they believe strongly in something, not people who are trying to get elected"; and the late Wendy Wasserstein saying Hillary "has flip-flopped on so many issues of image that her behavior can justifiably be called erratic."
Some of the more common adjectives hurled at Hillary are familiar to any high-achieving female. And, sure, the woman known in high school as "Sister Frigidaire" faces all the glass-ceiling, woman-in-a-man's-job, underestimated, underpaid, overworked gender guff that also frustrates senators Olympia Snowe and Mary Landrieu. But what makes our reaction to her far more extreme?
More than any other public figure, Hillary forces us to acknowledge that the path to power for American women is not all that clear, more an odyssey than a march. The national trauma began when Hillary violated perceived roles of domesticity, says Betty Winfield, a University of Missouri professor who has been monitoring Hillary's public perception since the campaign of 1992. "People had a very preconceived idea about how a first lady was supposed to act, the image of a supportive wife but not too outspoken," says Winfield. "Hillary had no noblesse oblige cause, nothing coming from the domestic sphere like highway beautification or illiteracy or anti-drug use among teens. No, no. She was going to change the entire health care system for the whole country."
This didn't sit well, says Winfield, in part because "women who attain power or public recognition as satellites of great men are subject to a lot more criticism than women who arrive to the public arena on their own accomplishment." (In her day, Dolley Madison was accused of being lascivious, Jefferson's mistress, and trading sex for votes.) Of course, long before she was first lady, Hillary was already accomplished, having clawed her way up the law firm ladder to become the first female partner in Arkansas' oldest and most prestigious firm. The closest parallel at the time was...Marilyn Quayle. How quickly we all forget that Marilyn was a law partner with her husband in a Clintonesque firm called Quayle and Quayle. When Dan was named vice president in 1988, the governor of Indiana offered to appoint Marilyn to fill out his term in the U.S. Senate. Hillary merely took up the work of bushwhacking a path originally macheted by a woman now almost entirely forgotten.
Like Quayle, Hillary had her career sights aimed high, so how awkward was it that when she ascended to the West Wing in 1992, it was via the highest bedroom in the land. Certainly it explains why she uttered such mortifying lines as the classic: "If you vote for my husband, you get me; it's a two-for-one blue-plate special."
That original confusion about her role persists. Typically, says Winfield, women in power are seen as "either the domineering dowager or the scheming concubine." In the American psyche, Hillary is a two-for-one special, seen as both Election's Tracy Flick and a postmenopausal Margaret Thatcher power-Frau -- despised for possessing sexuality and being devoid of it.
One of the first criticisms, says Edwards of his sculpture, "was that critics said the piece looked like 'Jimmy Carter with boobs.'" Edwards notes that the Internet is a kind of Dantean pit of Hillary imagery; he describes his work as an attempt to rescue her femininity from the sexual inferno in which he discovered her. "Before I came along, there were all these Photoshopped images of her," he says. "They'd take a lot of porn images and then splice her in. Oh my God...she's had to have seen them."
Most men, especially when women aren't around, will typically open up a conversation about Hillary in precisely these terms. Long before they get to her politics, they gossip about her comeliness, and the judgment is always harsh. Busting Hillary back down to mere dame, and a rejected one whose sexual allures fail, seems to be a necessary preamble to any discussion of her. In October, her Senate opponent, John Spencer, accused her of being ugly. (He now officially denies it.) The Daily News quoted him as claiming that Hillary had spent "millions of dollars" on plastic surgery. "You ever see a picture of her back then? Whew," Spencer said. "I don't know why Bill married her."
The point is, whether the real Hillary is brimming with sexuality or is entirely drained of it, any talk about her is always borne ceaselessly back to her intimacies, her appearance, her sexuality, her femininity. Why?
There are so many answers to that question, it's one of the reasons the country can't stop talking about her. But here is one: Hillary is an avatar of an existential dread skulking in the hearts of every couple who've tried to put together a life since the feminist revolution. This anxiety explains why the darkest question a liberal feminist can ask is: Why didn't she leave that son of a bitch? And it's why the coarsest question a conservative man can ask is: Who would do the bitch? Both point to deep fears that emerged alongside feminism, grounded, as every question since that revolution is, in the politics of the bedroom.
Hillary has come to embody a dark fear in the hearts of modern men: the wife who neglects the joys of the bedroom for her career. The middle years of marriage are hard enough (or so I have read), trying to keep the flame flickering amid the anxieties of bills, the call of career, the squall of little children. That's the age-old stuff. Add to that a novel stress on the guy: a new destructive Oedipal force right at his side, his wife. She wants a career equal to, if not better than, her husband's. Will she be more famous, make more money, hold more prestige?
And there's Hillary, pushing onward, to where? The presidency itself. She could possibly pull off what George W. Bush has attempted: surpassing a familial predecessor in achievement and esteem. As always, we imagine, Hillary is watching and learning, waiting her turn.
The flip side to Hillary's ambition evokes every career woman's greatest fear. How fragile is marriage? It can come apart as quickly as that girl delivering the pizza can snap her thong. And there is no amount of superachieving or hard work that can prevent this lurking humiliation. Just ask the other Hillary: As Martha Stewart ascended to the heights of fame, her husband, Andy, pulled a Bill and started screwing one of the young office assistants. It's absurd, sure. It's clichéd and pathetic. But, for the working wife, trying to build a career off the foundation of her marriage to even the nicest (smartest, richest, handsomest) man, her worst fear is that he'll stray in this, the most debasing of ways. It's a complete denial of her womanhood, an essential insult. It's why the kind of anger liberal women feel toward Hillary always circles back around to the issue of why she stayed in the marriage. Why didn't she take a stand against male grossness?
Instead, she toughed it out. And she gets no love from any side for it. To the right, she stayed not for any principle or for Chelsea but because she's a clawing shrew who will suffer any ignominy to attain power. To the left, she had a chance to take a stand for all the women who've been humiliated, and she didn't. (Bill, it should be noted, is largely forgiven, even revered, by left-leaning women.)
But the more body blows Hillary withstands from critics (or her husband), the stronger she can look. Who can forget when Rick Lazio marched across a stage in 2000, shoved a campaign pledge in her face, and tried to strong-arm her into signing it? Hillary coldly asked him to step away. It was the turning point of that campaign. That motherfucker. Suddenly female voters saw in Hillary every woman who has had to put up with demeaning crap from men. And a lot of male voters simply saw an underdog standing up and rallied to her side. She crushed Lazio by 12 points. In November, John Spencer, who will be remembered only for calling Hillary ugly, went down to a defeat three times as ignominious.
It's amazing to see just who can rush to Hillary's side when the issue becomes the bare-naked question of trying to bring down a high-achieving woman. During a discussion of snipes at Martha and Hillary on Tina Brown's TV show, Laura Ingraham, who once wrote a book called The Hillary Trap: Looking for Power in All the Wrong Places, confessed, "I've gone through that. I'm the right-wing info babe. That's the box I'm put in.... Powerful women carry a heavier burden.... No one likes to see a woman get too powerful, too fast, too smart."
Ask your friends if their fear and loathing of Hillary has anything to do with her being a woman, and you'll undoubtedly get a denial. That might be someone else's problem, but certainly not mine. But after a Lazio moment, or when John Edwards' wife told guests at a Ladies' Home Journal luncheon that her "choices" had made her "happier" and more "joyful" than Hillary, an epiphany can occur, as it did for The Nation's Katha Pollitt, who wrote, "If people keep making sexist attacks on Hillary Rodham Clinton, I may just have to vote for her. That means you, Elizabeth Edwards!" One has to wonder, especially considering the massive voter support she's received in two elections, if Hillary doesn't already have her own hidden vote: not just feminist columnists, but moderate and even Republican women who might exult in Hillarating until they step into the seclusion of the voting booth, where all the watercooler chitchat, pissy remarks, and catty complaints fall away to reveal a working woman getting harassed in a man's world -- and they recognize what they see.
Hillary is an icon of our most transformative personal revolution. Racial integration was about bringing excluded people to a metaphorical and literal lunch counter that was already there. A public place. But the feminist revolution was about remaking the private world, the nest and resting place for all us careerists.
Hillary explained it in that notorious speech at Wellesley in 1969. She said, "But we also know that to be educated, the goal of it must be human liberation. A liberation enabling each of us to fulfill our capacity so as to be free to create within and around ourselves." She was in the first class of women's libbers, back when "the Working Woman" was more an idea than a reality and the future held infinite possibility. She left Wellesley fired up with the rhetoric of Steinem and Friedan. They had revealed to the world the new theory; she would show them how it worked in practice. Hillary is the real revolutionary: She had a career. She had a family. She had a husband with a career. They were both ambitious boomers -- perhaps the most ambitious. They wanted not just good jobs but the very best of all possible jobs. And every step of the way she demanded and got -- to use the old-school rhetoric -- the freedom to choose.
That language pops up with Hillary from time to time, such as one curious moment during her first Senate campaign when men and women, liberals and conservatives, all still had inflamed opinions on whether she should stay in her marriage or not. Asked after a speech about her decision to remain with Bill, she said: "I fought all my life for women to make their own choices, in their personal and professional lives. I made mine."
How retro-1970s an answer is that? Hillary is still talking that talk and walking that walk, even though the revolution never really worked out as drafted. Those day care and health care support systems never arrived. Glass ceilings appeared, lower pay persisted. Feminism gained an angry militant opposition that now works to outlaw abortion state by state. Without widespread public support, the movement fell onto the shoulders of the individual women who could tough it out, women like Sister Frigidaire, the woman who could visit Buffalo 26 times. A lot of women just got tired. Many shrugged off the fight for full professional independence and happily went home to raise the kids. Feminists gamely tried to make the argument that their intention all along was to allow any of these fine choices to be made. But a lot of compromises were made all around. Now Gloria Steinem is like some oldest living Confederate widow occasionally showing up on TV to remind us what it was like, back in the day. Then, a certain ideal seemed inevitable -- the feminist enjoying both the pleasures of motherhood and the Eisenhower-era man's life of full professional reward. Of those idealists, Hillary is arguably the only one still in our face.
In her Wellesley speech, she concluded with a poem, a portion of which eerily captures the trajectory of the woman she would become: "And the purpose of history is to provide a receptacle / For all those myths and oddments / Which oddly we have acquired / And from which we would become unburdened / To create a newer world / To transform the future into the present."
History's receptacle. And an entire nation has been filling it with our myths and oddments ever since: Hillary Clinton. Who soldiers on, even as the rest of America has backed off from 1970s-style feminism just a little (or a lot). Once upon a time, to use the old-school rhetoric again, people like her said, "I can have it all." She wholeheartedly believed it. She would like to have it all. And in two years, she just might get it.
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Posted by: edith on Jan 24, 2007 1:16 AM
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Judge the woman on her actions. (Ugh.). Otherwise it's
sexism redux.
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Posted by: johnecolby on Jan 24, 2007 1:23 AM
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» RE: Give me a break -- no more Hillary!
Posted by: tinerary
» RE: Give me a break -- no more Hillary!
Posted by: Guy
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Posted by: Pat Kittle on Jan 24, 2007 2:53 AM
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It's great theatre-of-the-absurd entertainment watching right-wingers (and their corporate media flunkies) take their cheapest shots at Hillary and her family life, only to have their own marriages crash upon rocks of meth with homosexual prostitutes, secret abortions, gold-digging, nasty divorces, boozed-up children, etc., etc.
Meanwhile, Hillary, Bill & Chelsea seem to be practicing "family values" better than the whole lot them. In spite of all that, we're still being reminded of Monica! Yes, that Monica -- like celebrity "superstars," she's been raised to one-name-only recognition.)
What else about Hillary? She's not likely to ever, ever defy the Israel lobby.
Anything else? Well, the Democrats are now sucking up so hard to immigrants (what with their bi-lingual groveling and all) that she's probably going to be as disastrous as the neocons when it comes to adopting a sustainable immigration policy (meaning the number of people immigrating equals the number emigrating, etc.).
If all their alleged concern about global warming is more than hot air, population stabilization will absolutely have to be part of it. And in the US, that's means serious border control. Is Hillary (or anyone) up to it? Like a wide variety of Americans, I won't vote for them if they aren't.
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Posted by: kepstein7777 on Jan 24, 2007 3:11 AM
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She's the Britney or the Madonna of politics. Not exactly pretty. Not exactly ugly...She'll never go away, because it's interesting to see what she'll do next to screw up and make a mess of herself...especially when you're waiting in a long grocery line with nothing better to read.
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Posted by: socialpsych on Jan 24, 2007 3:54 AM
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» Excellent points, Hillary is a scorpio, so you will never know who she is anyway and ....
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: It's not about gender
Posted by: Wildroots
» If not Hillary, then who??
Posted by: psychochurch
» RE: If not Hillary, then who??
Posted by: aonghus36
» Amen, and the only right winger on here is the guy who supports her along with Murdock....
Posted by: Prophit
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Posted by: profmarcus on Jan 24, 2007 4:06 AM
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i would LOVE to see a woman in the white house, or a person of color, or, better yet, both, but hillary ain't the one any more than condi is... she needs to go away and leave the field open for what i hope will eventually be a new breed of political leaders - those who actually have the common good of the citizens of the u.s. and of the world at heart...
And, yes, I DO take it personally
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» RE: skip the pop-psych
Posted by: CatDad
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Posted by: colinmeister on Jan 24, 2007 4:09 AM
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Sorry Hillary, but as a girl from the Chicago subburbs, you were doubtless a Cubs or White Sox fan before you articulated that piece of drivel to gain favour with sports fans when you were running for the senate. If you can't even tell the truth about a subject as trivial as baseball, how can anybody believe you when it comes to more serious matters?
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» Ain't necessarily so...
Posted by: Age of Reason
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Posted by: xi_people on Jan 24, 2007 4:16 AM
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The descent into madness is continuing unabated. I don't believe that Hillary, despite all the money behind her will ever be voted in as president -- though with the control of the Diebold machines, one never knows. In any case, her real purpose is to "gum up the works" so that a serious anti-war candidate will never see the light of day.
In short, this entire "Hillary episode" is a great big FU from TPTB to the commoners. They must really think that enough people are stupid enough to vote for this woman to go through with promoting her like this. Watch out for the "sympathy" votes for people who get mad at the "media" for Hillary-bashing and support her for that reason only. Like Bush, she is the perfect foil to divert attention from the real issues at hand.
Elect "Saint" Hillary, and your children will be on their way to a much bigger debacle than Iraq -- in Iran. Look for unequivocal "support" for Israel's murderous agenda, and endless warmongering. Things are absolutely spiraling out of control when someone this unfit for office is being so relentlessly pushed. It makes one wonder what's really going on behind the scenes in the halls of powers. My belief is that they're scared sh*tless about the Pandora's box they've opened, and have no concrete ideas how to hold this rapidly splintering country together.
We live in interesting times....
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» Finally, some rational thought
Posted by: Earthie
» Well said, nm
Posted by: jdylarid
» Hillary is Polarizing??? What rubbish
Posted by: psychochurch
» RE: Hillary is Polarizing??? What rubbish.....for the record...
Posted by: ekipnrut
» Lets hope not. What you "do" is not necessarily what you"are". You can be talented....
Posted by: Prophit
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Posted by: jeanbee on Jan 24, 2007 4:37 AM
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» RE: It's her vote for the Iraq war, stupid!
Posted by: henderson
» RE: It's her vote for the Iraq war, stupid!
Posted by: bbfmail
» Read an issue of Mommy Jones recently ...
Posted by: AdamSelene40
» RE: It's her vote for the Iraq war, stupid!
Posted by: picket
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Posted by: theskywolf on Jan 24, 2007 4:53 AM
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We need someone who can take us to a new, progressive level. Get Hillary, get more of Bill Clinton. We don't need that.
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» Pro War, pro-business and great name recognition ...
Posted by: AdamSelene40
» DC is a minefield...compromise is mandatory
Posted by: psychochurch
» RE: DC is a minefield...compromise is mandatory
Posted by: Daniel Shays
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Posted by: marxalot on Jan 24, 2007 4:58 AM
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"If Hillary runs, she will need to invent a whole new form of campaign strategy: She will need to flip voters who pretty much hate her."
It is a stretch to imagine her actually winning. Isn't it? Please Dems, don't nominate her! You will be putting a Republican in the white house! Again. Aargh.
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» RE: I could live with President HRC
Posted by: oregoncharles
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Posted by: Steve Adair on Jan 24, 2007 5:12 AM
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President Bush certainly seems to believe 'strongly in something'; does that make him a good public servant?
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» Bush believes in evil
Posted by: edsmith
» Yeah, his adventures with the frog in school pretty much sowed that point up nicely!
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Yeah, his adventures with the frog in school pretty much sowed that point up nicely!
Posted by: edsmith
» RE: Yeah, his adventures with the frog in school pretty much sowed that point up nicely!
Posted by: aonghus36
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Posted by: Democritus on Jan 24, 2007 5:16 AM
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» RE: There's Something about Hillary
Posted by: Steve Adair
» RE: There's Something about Hillary
Posted by: oregoncharles
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Posted by: Andrew Zito on Jan 24, 2007 5:52 AM
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While the "left" opposition wonders why the right again wins when the true upholders of the "people's state" (democracy) fails, though they worship at the shines of the true faith/s of bitter fruits for which often they have been abandoned. 50% of the electorate not voting, though voting is such a cheap substitute for real action, that in other countries constituents dying and killing for what one believes.
Give use a meal and we will eat.
~A~
P.O.Box 1615
Altoona, Pa, USA 16603
An "internet pioneer" my passport is ready but who will call
universal copyright (c) 2004-2007 Andrew Stergiou
http://templeofreason.org http://zito.biz http://mplf.org http://ularts.net http://pushedpawn.org http://garagemusicstudios.com http://blog.360.yahoo.com/andrew_zito http://andrewstergiou.podomatic.com
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Posted by: edsmith on Jan 24, 2007 6:07 AM
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Posted by: Lincoln fan on Jan 24, 2007 6:59 AM
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Bob Reichenbach,
Director, The Lincoln Initiative
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» The DLC is a Republican front group devised AIPAC
Posted by: edsmith
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Posted by: NoPCZone on Jan 24, 2007 7:18 AM
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Or maybe you could go back to Arkansas, where you pretended to be the wife of a young, progressive Governor while working for Don Tyson, Wal-Mart and others. You know- part time positions, low wages, no benefits, union unfriendly, and gender discrimination from companies based in the same state. Oh that's right, you also served on Wal-Mart's corporate board.
You could go back to being the 'Who asked you' Hillary that stood for no election and then held hearings on healthcare with no authority or mandate from anybody.
That's part of the conversation I would like to start with Hillary. I would vote for Satan himself before I'd give her my vote.
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» The wives of right wing males will vote for hillary....in secret
Posted by: psychochurch
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Posted by: american on Jan 24, 2007 7:28 AM
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Posted by: hoscot on Jan 24, 2007 7:30 AM
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Posted by: earena on Jan 24, 2007 7:38 AM
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» RE: Hillary is a fine choice
Posted by: grrrampop
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Posted by: WitchyNy on Jan 24, 2007 7:41 AM
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My father-A truck driver...and all his friends..will not vote for a woman or a Black person for President..no matter what they say to a poll...GET REAL HERE!
Or -we will end up with another Bush.
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» RE: She can't WIN....
Posted by: Ellie1
» OP: consider the first response to your post.
Posted by: ABetterFuture
» RE: She can't WIN....
Posted by: MitPot
» She not only can win...but will win...
Posted by: psychochurch
» RE: She can't WIN....
Posted by: xbj
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Posted by: Robba29 on Jan 24, 2007 7:43 AM
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» RE: The biggest problem
Posted by: FastEddy
» RE: The biggest problem
Posted by: Persephone8
» wrong!!! In DC, success = compromise...go there and see 4 yourself...
Posted by: psychochurch
» RE: wrong!!! In DC, success = compromise...go there and see 4 yourself...
Posted by: Persephone8
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Posted by: blondesprite on Jan 24, 2007 7:46 AM
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GWB said 9/11 changed everthing. Then he, Republicans and some Democrats proceeded to change everything... from Habeas Corpus, The U. S. Constituion, privacy laws, propaganda laws, posse comitatus laws, banckuptcy laws and the list goes on and on and on. This article, in my opinion, was a waste of space and my time.
KBR is building internment camps, with tax payer dollars, and on US soil, to house American citizens. American citizens, of the co-called "fifth column" (dissenters and pre-determined sympathizers) will be suspect prisoners in these camps... scarey stuff folks!
Other Americans too, as polls indicate, have moved way beyond worring about race or gender issues. Unfortunately, the "media" has not.
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Posted by: ABetterFuture on Jan 24, 2007 8:09 AM
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Why does viewing someone as uniquely unqualified need be based on hatred? If I prefer a cinnamon pop-tart, it isn't necessarily because of my hatred for the "evil" frosted strawberry ones.
Meh. The 50%+1 political atmosphere drags human win/loss emotions into places where rationality, cool heads, and collaborative strategies would be better: the subtext of this article is that if you don't jump on the Clinton bandwagon, it's because you hate her.
That's a ridiculous premise, and does pretty good job at illustrating how Bush's "you're either with us or agin' us" mantra of life and love and war has filtered down (further infected) the political discourse.
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» RE: Politics...so emotional.
Posted by: gillianr
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Posted by: philobat on Jan 24, 2007 8:13 AM
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It is not her sexuality that is threatening, it is her stupidity level. She is a great saleswoman, who truly understands theatrics. She will win because she has stuck by Bill. Its the devoted wife syndrom that will get her elected, and it will have nothing to do with her ability to get the job done.
She doesn't need a spin team, because she knows how to do that all by herself.
We definately need a womans touch in the White House, but Hilary is far from what America needs. She is an automaton with tits.
She may end up being the first and last woman President, which is sad.
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Posted by: rwa on Jan 24, 2007 8:19 AM
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"Israeli billionaire and media mogul Haim Saban is at the top of the list of donors to political campaigns in the US."
"According to the report, Saban, a close friend of the Clintons, is one of the major donors to the Democratic Party"
********
Clinton's silence toward Israel's brutality implies the senator will continue to support AIPAC's mission to occupy the whole of the occupied territories, as well as a war on Iran. AIPAC is correct even President Bush appears to be a little sheepish when up against the warmongering of Hillary Clinton.
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Posted by: R.I.P. on Jan 24, 2007 8:29 AM
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As I remember Georgr Bush was popular with many as "the candidate I'd rather have a beer with". Really folks....
it is time to get real.
cheers, Rip Tragle
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Posted by: CJC on Jan 24, 2007 8:36 AM
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The reason to oppose Clinton is what others have said.
Before she voted 'yes' for the war she eloquently went through reasons invading Iraq was a bad idea. Then she voted 'yea.'
There's the disconnect between principle and political expediency. She's cold and calculating - see Cindy Sheehan's description of meeting with her in 2005.
She's so bright and clearly competent. Too bad she has sold her soul to her ambition.
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» RE: Another Democratic woman against H Clinton
Posted by: Robba29
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Posted by: shinseiji on Jan 24, 2007 9:25 AM
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And speaking of which, we need to be rid of the corruption of dynastic politics. We're looking at a quarter century of BushClintons from 1988 on.
But mark this for all of those who think that the Clinton Democratic clique is "much better" than the Bushes: the GWOT will continue as a major block on any real progressive reform; if and when President Cheney gets his war on with Iran and then Hillary ascends to the throne in 2008, her Administration will loyally prosecute Cheneys' policy just as Billy maintained the bombing/sanctions seige of Iraq throughout the 1990's - exterminating in the process some half million Iraqis by UN estimates, but remember, 'it was worth it'.
The bottom life for all those who offer nothing but endless apologies for the Clinton Democrats: until Americas' mad militarist march and the trillions flushed down the tubes with it are stopped and permantly reversed, there will be no money nor the political climate for substantive reform in the US or abroad.
War Kills Reform.
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Posted by: Donna_Darko on Jan 24, 2007 9:28 AM
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Hillary Clinton is like our national Rorschach: She stokes our every emotion, from our deepest fears to our darkest hatreds.
Good piece but the title should simply be "The US is very sexist." She's succeeded at every stage of her life and her presidency would be an unqualified success, the polar opposite of Bush's presidency, an absolute failure. She's a Senator for citizens who endured 9-11 and in the state with the biggest Jewish American population so she's been annoyingly centrist but I think she'd be great for this country.
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» RE: Clinton '08
Posted by: JCR
» RE: Clinton '08
Posted by: Donna_Darko
» RE: Clinton '08
Posted by: aonghus36
» RE: Clinton '08.....Your comments cause me to wonder if you are...
Posted by: ekipnrut
» RE: Clinton '08.....Your comments cause me to wonder if you are...
Posted by: Donna_Darko
» I'm on crack?
Posted by: Donna_Darko
» hey ekipnrut....or should I say "alternet staffer paid to blog here"???
Posted by: psychochurch
» RE: hey ekipnrut....or should I say "alternet staffer paid to bl.. WTF are you
Posted by: ekipnrut
» Stop smokin the crack
Posted by: Donna_Darko
» RE: Stop smokin the crack..... Darko.....PsychoC.. I now...
Posted by: ekipnrut
» You
Posted by: Donna_Darko
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Posted by: oregoncharles on Jan 24, 2007 9:32 AM
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It demeans Hillary Clinton, wastes space, and insults the readers. It couldn't hit a worse trifecta.
Let's deal with actual politics for a moment. My own grudge goes back to her botch of the health-care issue, right at the beginning of her husband's regime. It was so bad, and so obvious, that I think it was deliberate: a way of pretending to keep Bill's campaign promise while sabotaging any hope of universal health-care for the foreseeable future. A perfect example of corporate-driven politics.
Then, of course, there's the war. Need I say more on that issue?
In general, her record is an extension of Bill's: purely corporate, based entirely on calculated half-measures, and amoral. Apparently they were, and are, a genuine political team. And that's as far as I'll deal with her personal life. Otherwise, I couldn't care less.
Then, of course, there are those poll negatives. No politician can survive, or overcome, initial negative ratings that high, especially when they are supported by her record. Remember, BOTH sides despise her. She can't count on progressives rallying around, as Democrats must.
Finally, her record in the Senate is, well, minor when it isn't offensive (remember the war?). Her only real qualification for the Presidency is her last name. Haven't we learned anything the last 6 years?
On a purely partisan basis, I hope the Dems do nominate her: combined with what W has done to the Republicans, it would give the Greens the best shot they've ever had. Along with every other alternative party. We all could use a wide-open race, for once. A 20% President might get us some electoral reform.
Returning to the article: Why on earth would Alternet repeat Mother Jones's blunder? You LIKE insulting your readers?
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» RE: Bad Judgement
Posted by: blondesprite
» RE: Bad Judgement
Posted by: MartianBachelor
» RE: Bad Judgement
Posted by: oregoncharles
» RE: Bad Judgement
Posted by: MartianBachelor
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Posted by: jack alexander on Jan 24, 2007 9:35 AM
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I can't help but ask, all of this drivel (above) aside, is she as bad as the sub-moronic neo-nazi that is in office today?
Concern about her breasts? What about the Chimp's missing you know what that he substitutes with weapons of war with lies of deceit and stupidity included (to make up for the other missing 'parts')?
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» Just what is Bush missing?
Posted by: Ellie1
» RE: Just what is Bush missing?
Posted by: jack alexander
» It wasn't a waste of time
Posted by: Donna_Darko
» RE: This was a...
Posted by: blondesprite
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Posted by: snarlah on Jan 24, 2007 10:17 AM
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However, the salient point is that Hillary Clinton, like her husband and many other so-called Democrats, is Democratic Leadership Committee. She is as pro-business as a Republican, and big money taints everything that she says and does. She is also hawkish on the invasion and occupation of Iraq and probably will be hawkish in general. I don't consider that a womanly virtue.
When a group of Iraqi women were travelling the country giving talks about the horrors of what we've done to Iraq, Hillary ignored every request to meet with them. And that means there was no answer at all. What gives her the right to ignore important women? And why didn't she care? Probably because what she does care about is the same thing the men do--getting and maintaining power; meeting with Iraqi women might have gotten in the way of her grasping for money and power.
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Posted by: Toast on Jan 24, 2007 10:36 AM
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No doubt, HRC has the resume to function decently in the job. With much respect to Wendy W., flip-flopping is also called diplomacy and is necessary in world relations. The resoluteness of GWB has been tiresome and lethal. Regarding her views on immigration, she would enhance her electability most if she ran with Bill Richardson who is the candidate with the truly impressive resume.
The Clinton-Richardson ticket works for me. Clinton can capture many of the votes of Bill Clinton-devotees, blacks, women, liberals, Gore-supporters, and Hollywood. Richardson can capture many Latins and immigration one-noters. I think they can get elected and serve well.
Oh, gosh - there I go again projecting my own desires onto Hillary!
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» RE: Clinton-Richardson ticket works nicely
Posted by: MartianBachelor
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Posted by: mite on Jan 24, 2007 10:57 AM
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Hillary and Congress knows the 'Fraud' against the U.S. people by the Federal Reserve and Internal Revenue Service these past 93 years. The IRS's own code says that taxes are voluntary when it comes to tax on our labor.
U.S. Constitution Article 1 Section: 8
www.supremelaw.org/sls/31answers.htm
www.givemeliberty.org www.originalintent.org
www.freedomtofascism.com
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Posted by: SteveB on Jan 24, 2007 11:09 AM
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What evidence does the author give that Americans in general, not just silly reporters from the New York Times or people who've had books published by Regnery, are obsessed with Hillary? Consider this ridiculous claim:
"Americans happily participated in a cnn/USA Today/Gallup poll to determine whether Hillary should get a divorce."
Oh, so if a thousand people with nothing better to do don't hang up the phone when asked this question, it means "Americans" are "happily participating" in the Hillary obsession?
Or how about this:
"Almost every American has an opinion about Hillary."
Wow, what a startling observation. A woman who spent eight years as first lady, and nearly six years as a senator, and most of us "have an opinion" about her.
I wish the author was alone in falling for the fallacy that if our media is aimed at morons, WE must all be morons. The New York Times isn't inspecting the Clinton's sheets because we demanded it, they're doing it because the people who do political reporting for the New York Times are IDIOTS. Check out www.dailyhowler.com for a daily exposition on this theme.
Until we learn that most Americans are much smarter than we give them credit for (and by "we" I mean the sort of well-educated liberals who might read Mother Jones) the media elites will continue to turn our political discourse into a bad joke.
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Posted by: Red Clover on Jan 24, 2007 11:11 AM
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If elected, Hillary would be the Democrats' Richard Nixon- a foreign policy hawk, slightly liberal on domestic matters, clueless in connecting to the people, and surrounded by enemies, real and imagined. We need something better from the nation's first female President if we are too see more of them anytime soon.
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» Good analogy (RE: A Democratic Nixon), nm
Posted by: jdylarid
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Posted by: Blueprelude on Jan 24, 2007 11:54 AM
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» RE: How About A GOOD Female Candidate Instead? ..A Black..Woman...of character
Posted by: ekipnrut
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Posted by: ZPaul on Jan 24, 2007 12:27 PM
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I want a candidate that is willing to take a firm, and not a wishy-washy stand against Bush and his obscene war. I think that candidate just may be Edwards. Yes, he changed his mind, I know(I can hear the cries of "flip-flop" already). He also did something Bush -- nor, to my knowledge, Hillary, has ever done. Admit he was dead wrong. I want a President that is not a coward. I want a courageous President. And I´m not thinking Hillary. I´m thinking Edwards.
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» RE: I Don´t Hate Hillary...
Posted by: gillianr
» RE: I Don´t Hate Hillary...
Posted by: dangerouslysane
» RE: I Don´t Hate Hillary...
Posted by: jmooney
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Posted by: wleming on Jan 24, 2007 12:45 PM
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what is she
generating miles of prose history
what does she do
where does she go?
supported the contras
loves bill too
hillary hillary so fair and smart
bludgeoned your way into americas stinking
media heart
hillary but a media tart?
consider the source of all her art
some journalist hack
some awful corporate part
oh hillary you are doomed to lame
by the people who write asking
"whats her game?"
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Posted by: drblack on Jan 24, 2007 12:47 PM
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Politically I do not like her or Bill. They had too many shady dealings and after the bush-clinto dynasties we need NEW blood.
Dennis Kucinich is the ONLY truly honest politician now and he will get my vote if nothing changes.
This has NOTHING to do with gender,but with integrity.
Pro politicians with slick managed public personas make me ILL.
Anyone who votes for Hillary will regret it. She cares for poer and that is all.
We NEED to have someone go to bat for FREEDOM for American individuals and a true effort to reduce the power and money of the Federal government.
The only way to end the selling of America and its freedom is to take power and money away from the fed and put it back into the hands of more local and accountable government.
Everyone including government should stay out of how people live their lives and how they treay themselves.
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Posted by: Techubus on Jan 24, 2007 1:07 PM
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This piece did not deserve to be placed front and center imo. I feel we would all be better off having never even seen such crap being floated as reasonable discource on a presidential candidate.
I won't be voting for her because of her politics and her history. I don't care about her anatomy, her looks, her anything superficial. I don't like what she has stood for, I don't like obviously calculating fencesitters. She is the democratic equivalent of John McCain. I guarantee both of them will never make it to the White House.
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» RE: I usually never comment without reading the entire article
Posted by: truly scrumptious
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Posted by: FastEddy on Jan 24, 2007 5:20 PM
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Posted by: karma_ran_over_dogma on Jan 24, 2007 5:31 PM
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Posted by: okie11 on Jan 24, 2007 5:33 PM
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Posted by: Shey on Jan 24, 2007 6:51 PM
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In my opinion, she is a power hungry, condesending political opportunist who gets off on "playing the game." Her voting record, disguised as "non-partisan compromise", indicates that she should call herself a moderate Republican. If such an animal still existed. As a Democrat, I am sick to death of having moderate to conservative Democratic polititions labled "liberal', while genuine liberals like John Edwards are marginalized as "too far to the left".
Where has the "too far to the right" Bush administration gotten us? Give me a real liberal of either gender, not a poser who always has one eye on what she needs to say, in order to get elected. If Barbara Boxer were running, I'd be the first in line to support her. With a broken heart, knowing she'd have a snowballs chance in hell.
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Posted by: Aufklaerung_Baboon on Jan 24, 2007 8:11 PM
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If Hillary Clinton is elected it'll be just like Bill Clinton was back in office, and this is not fair because he's already had his 8 years. Ditto with Bush Jr. and Bush Sr., the Kennedy family, and others...this IS NOT GOOD for America's democracy. We need fresh blood in the system, not 'business as usual.'
The WASP elite in the U.S. and the Jewish elite are in the process of merging together, thus controlling ALL sides of America including politics, business/economics, military, etc. They are intermarrying with each other, hogging up all the slots at America' elite universities (which are nothing more than eugenically driven breeding grounds for America's economic and cognitive elite), and utterly dominating all forms of the economy and foreign policy.
Yeah, so much for 'equal opportunity' for ALL American citizens.
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Posted by: doctorsquared on Jan 24, 2007 9:27 PM
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Posted by: juhuacha on Jan 24, 2007 9:53 PM
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I think that a great point is made in that people talk about her sexually and yet you'd never hear anyone talking about how much of a sex life W has, or McCain's manliness, etc. I think that its interesting how vehement some of the comments have been... I don't understand how anyone can expect a politician to be anyone but a politician, all I ask for is a politician who thinks about issues, at least a little bit (I don't have high expectations).
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Posted by: Betsy L. Angert on Jan 24, 2007 10:02 PM
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I love this essay. I thought it was fun.
Immediately after Hillary announced she was "in" I penned a missive saying I was out. I would not support her for I believe 'Hillary for President' is a divisive proposition. I posted my thoughts at many a popular political site expecting agreement.
I was lambasted. Apparently, Progressives have adopted the Eleventh Commandment made famous by Ronald Reagan; never criticize those within our clan. Some seem happy just knowing there is a viable woman candidate.
No matter what a person might say, invoke the name Hillary and flames will fly.
I invite you to review my exposé and share your thoughts.
Hillary Clinton Says "I'm In." My Reply, "I'm Out"
Betsy L. Angert
BeThink.org
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» RE: Hillary Clinton Says "I'm In." My Reply, "I'm Out"
Posted by: MartianBachelor
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Posted by: tobeimean on Jan 25, 2007 12:02 AM
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Posted by: asilsfable on Jan 25, 2007 12:51 AM
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NO ONE WAS TALKING ABOUT HEALTH CARE BEFORE HILLARY--PERIOD.
It was she who brought it into the public debate. It was only after her exhaustive research that politicos from both side of the aisle starting even discussing health care issues. Now, the topic is so important and it's on the top 5 list for almost every candidate.
She was hated by the Repubs then, and they chose to sacrifice what would have been great for the American public just because they hate her.
I remember Hillary calling out doctors and big pharma for high drug prices. Maybe she was naive--that certainly was a bold move. But she learned her lesson! To some extent, she knows now that she has to placate big corp interests.
I'm not saying that that's good--I'm just saying that it's difficult to get something passed if you don't.
Did anyone actually READ what she put together for national health insurance? Does anyone actually REMEMBER that she held forums all over the country getting points of view from all sorts of folks with health issues?
Anyone with health insurance now as good as she proposed then would be clicking their heels. It even allowed for alternative care. Though I thought is was a bit pricey at the time (I remember it to be around $190 a month), it was a good comprehensive plan.
Remember that when Jimmy Carter said IN THE 70s that we need to lessen our dependency on oil, Americans reacted with a vitriol usually reserved for treasonists. Now, it seems prescient.
And Ruth Bader Ginsburg was an excellent choice for Supreme Court Justice. Think Bill came up with that one on his own?
Try, just try to be balanced for a change...
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Posted by: ISlamIslam on Jan 25, 2007 3:12 AM
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I'd never vote for her, but I can think of worse people who could end up in office. At least Hillary has brains and balls.
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Posted by: Hal on Jan 25, 2007 3:33 AM
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Hillary continues to shill for the most corrupt and arrantly phony “war on terror” since before Viet Nam as Pelosi has taken impeachment “off the table”. She and Hillary refuse to even consider cutting funds for a sham, illegal war based on 911 cover-up lies that should have brought down the entire puppet government at DC years ago. (As it would have been brought down if not for an utterly cooked snake oil of an MSM).
These women have the blood of more than half a million deaths on their hands. And they are apparently proud of it.
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Posted by: xbj on Jan 25, 2007 12:55 PM
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Clinton's NATO war in the Balkans (which resulted IN NOT ONE AMERICAN CASUALTY) was a BLINK OF AN EYE compared to this "endless" "war" "against" "terror", and he didn't have planes filled with Balkan "terrorist" stooges and thermite and micronukes bring down the WTC to sucker the US into it, EITHER. And God forbid, we stopped Serbian Nazis from doing to Moslems what Hitler did to the Jews. Lucifer forbid, the WAR PIGS almost had a coronary on that, more ventures like that which gained immense Islamic gratitude might have made their coming entire "Holy" Crusade they had planned impossible, by EARNING GOOD WILL.
There definitely IS SUCH AS THING AS THE LESSER OF TWO EVILS, especially if they are NECESSARY EVILS.
Politics, PERIOD, is a necessary EVIL.
KNOW THEM BY THEIR WORKS. And their priorities. Until a massive publicity campaign of billions of dollars can educate most Jewish Americans to the simple fact that Zionism is NOT A RELIGIOUS but a POLITICAL FASCIST IMPERIALISTIC MOVEMENT and has NOTHING AT ALL TO DO WITH TRUE JUDAISM, politicians are going to have to court Jewish voters the way they would any other large American bloc. Because far too many of them haven't gotten the word yet.
And with the Zionist Lobby spending billions of dollars to trash any candidate who doesn't play along, and cheating sychophant Israeli Zionists like Lieberman into office, it puts many politicians in difficult places.
So cut the good guys, or if you prefer, the LESSER EVIL guys some slack. They've EARNED it.
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» RE: NEVER IN A TRILLION YEARS IN OFFICE...
Posted by: opeluboy
» RE: NEVER IN A TRILLION YEARS IN OFFICE...
Posted by: xbj
» RE: NEVER IN A TRILLION YEARS IN OFFICE. Old boogers, Steamin' shit and fresh snot...
Posted by: ekipnrut
» RE: NEVER IN A TRILLION YEARS IN OFFICE. Old boogers, Steamin' shit and fresh snot...
Posted by: xbj
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Posted by: bambino on Jan 25, 2007 1:13 PM
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» RE: the analysis is wrong
Posted by: opeluboy
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Posted by: Shakti on Jan 25, 2007 2:14 PM
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I really admire Ms. Clinton. Good mother? Check. Just compare Chelsea to the Bush twins. Good wife? Check. Despite their problems, it is clear to me that the Clintons have a lot going on. Good Senator? Check. Her repuation in the Senate is excellent.
If Gore does not run, I will probably vote for Hillary in the Dem primaries. I would *love* for my daughter to come of age during a time when the country has a woman at the helm. How wonderful.
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» RE: Great Lady, Great Article
Posted by: opeluboy
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Posted by: Mewsician on Jan 25, 2007 2:22 PM
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Posted by: opeluboy on Jan 25, 2007 2:23 PM
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They are right-of-center, arrogant, Zionistic and pro-war (pardon the redundancy).
Clinton will not be getting my vote, no matter what new mask she puts on. I would vote for Hagel first, and I'm as liberal as one can be. I will not vote for a warmonger and a whore for Israel.
That is what Clinton is. Vote for her. But please don't call yourself a liberal. You're not.
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» RE: Boring and stupid
Posted by: joe in oklahoma
» RE: Boring and stupid
Posted by: xbj
» RE: Boring and stupid
Posted by: opeluboy
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Posted by: Thebigkate on Jan 25, 2007 11:23 PM
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» RE: Thebigkate
Posted by: xbj
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Posted by: potentate on Jan 26, 2007 3:20 PM
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» RE: Hillary Clinton Toilet Paper
Posted by: xbj
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Posted by: lulugeez on Jan 27, 2007 8:08 AM
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» RE: Opportunistic Neo-Liberal
Posted by: ekipnrut
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Posted by: Tara Downer on Jan 28, 2007 8:31 PM
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In fact, Republican politicos have reported that her health care plan was shouted and shut down because she had ALL the answers to all the questions (without referring to notes). They were actually afraid that if the public heard her arguments for and about universal health coverage, it would be a done deal. Too many congress people owed the pharmaceutical and insurance companies too much to allow the obscene profits to fall.
As I read most of the comments on this article, I realized that most commenters don't begin to understand the complexities of our political system. Does the DNC equivocate? Absolutely. Do they put pressure on Democratic frontrunners to cut back on Liberal rhetoric in order to win elections? Absolutely. Do any of you think that a Progressive can win a national election in any other way? Winning elections takes money and strategy. Leave it up to Hillary to persuade her haters that she may have a better handle on reality than any of her opponents. Unlike most married couples (who also suffer through infidelity), she learned it, in public, at the culminating moments of a 45 million dollar investigation of her husband, the most powerful man in the world. Plus, she has the perspective that few others have, a history of dealing with all the other powerful people in the world.
It also occurs to me as I read the other posters that they would do well to read Plato's short Allegory of the Cave. Most of us see only the shadows of our representatives. Their votes may be based on perspectives that we can't see. As a former instructor, I have seen many college students change their opinions radically when they learned some of the uglier truths of American history. When a politician changes her mind on an issue, it may be related to learning something new, not selling out or flip-flopping or whatever negative connotation can be attached to changing or not changing a view.
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» RE: Tara Downer
Posted by: kay07
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Posted by: zeitgeist1979 on Jan 28, 2007 11:37 PM
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Posted by: kay07 on Jan 30, 2007 4:51 PM
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Posted by: kay07 on Jan 30, 2007 5:05 PM
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Posted by: kay07 on Jan 30, 2007 5:26 PM
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Posted by: kay07 on Jan 30, 2007 5:41 PM
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Posted by: edith on Jan 24, 2007 1:16 AM
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Judge the woman on her actions. (Ugh.). Otherwise it's
sexism redux.
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Posted by: johnecolby on Jan 24, 2007 1:23 AM
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» RE: Give me a break -- no more Hillary!
Posted by: tinerary
» RE: Give me a break -- no more Hillary!
Posted by: Guy
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Posted by: Pat Kittle on Jan 24, 2007 2:53 AM
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It's great theatre-of-the-absurd entertainment watching right-wingers (and their corporate media flunkies) take their cheapest shots at Hillary and her family life, only to have their own marriages crash upon rocks of meth with homosexual prostitutes, secret abortions, gold-digging, nasty divorces, boozed-up children, etc., etc.
Meanwhile, Hillary, Bill & Chelsea seem to be practicing "family values" better than the whole lot them. In spite of all that, we're still being reminded of Monica! Yes, that Monica -- like celebrity "superstars," she's been raised to one-name-only recognition.)
What else about Hillary? She's not likely to ever, ever defy the Israel lobby.
Anything else? Well, the Democrats are now sucking up so hard to immigrants (what with their bi-lingual groveling and all) that she's probably going to be as disastrous as the neocons when it comes to adopting a sustainable immigration policy (meaning the number of people immigrating equals the number emigrating, etc.).
If all their alleged concern about global warming is more than hot air, population stabilization will absolutely have to be part of it. And in the US, that's means serious border control. Is Hillary (or anyone) up to it? Like a wide variety of Americans, I won't vote for them if they aren't.
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Posted by: kepstein7777 on Jan 24, 2007 3:11 AM
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She's the Britney or the Madonna of politics. Not exactly pretty. Not exactly ugly...She'll never go away, because it's interesting to see what she'll do next to screw up and make a mess of herself...especially when you're waiting in a long grocery line with nothing better to read.
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Posted by: socialpsych on Jan 24, 2007 3:54 AM
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» Excellent points, Hillary is a scorpio, so you will never know who she is anyway and ....
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: It's not about gender
Posted by: Wildroots
» If not Hillary, then who??
Posted by: psychochurch
» RE: If not Hillary, then who??
Posted by: aonghus36
» Amen, and the only right winger on here is the guy who supports her along with Murdock....
Posted by: Prophit
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Posted by: profmarcus on Jan 24, 2007 4:06 AM
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i would LOVE to see a woman in the white house, or a person of color, or, better yet, both, but hillary ain't the one any more than condi is... she needs to go away and leave the field open for what i hope will eventually be a new breed of political leaders - those who actually have the common good of the citizens of the u.s. and of the world at heart...
And, yes, I DO take it personally
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» RE: skip the pop-psych
Posted by: CatDad
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Posted by: colinmeister on Jan 24, 2007 4:09 AM
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Sorry Hillary, but as a girl from the Chicago subburbs, you were doubtless a Cubs or White Sox fan before you articulated that piece of drivel to gain favour with sports fans when you were running for the senate. If you can't even tell the truth about a subject as trivial as baseball, how can anybody believe you when it comes to more serious matters?
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» Ain't necessarily so...
Posted by: Age of Reason
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Posted by: xi_people on Jan 24, 2007 4:16 AM
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The descent into madness is continuing unabated. I don't believe that Hillary, despite all the money behind her will ever be voted in as president -- though with the control of the Diebold machines, one never knows. In any case, her real purpose is to "gum up the works" so that a serious anti-war candidate will never see the light of day.
In short, this entire "Hillary episode" is a great big FU from TPTB to the commoners. They must really think that enough people are stupid enough to vote for this woman to go through with promoting her like this. Watch out for the "sympathy" votes for people who get mad at the "media" for Hillary-bashing and support her for that reason only. Like Bush, she is the perfect foil to divert attention from the real issues at hand.
Elect "Saint" Hillary, and your children will be on their way to a much bigger debacle than Iraq -- in Iran. Look for unequivocal "support" for Israel's murderous agenda, and endless warmongering. Things are absolutely spiraling out of control when someone this unfit for office is being so relentlessly pushed. It makes one wonder what's really going on behind the scenes in the halls of powers. My belief is that they're scared sh*tless about the Pandora's box they've opened, and have no concrete ideas how to hold this rapidly splintering country together.
We live in interesting times....
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» Finally, some rational thought
Posted by: Earthie
» Well said, nm
Posted by: jdylarid
» Hillary is Polarizing??? What rubbish
Posted by: psychochurch
» RE: Hillary is Polarizing??? What rubbish.....for the record...
Posted by: ekipnrut
» Lets hope not. What you "do" is not necessarily what you"are". You can be talented....
Posted by: Prophit
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Posted by: jeanbee on Jan 24, 2007 4:37 AM
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» RE: It's her vote for the Iraq war, stupid!
Posted by: henderson
» RE: It's her vote for the Iraq war, stupid!
Posted by: bbfmail
» Read an issue of Mommy Jones recently ...
Posted by: AdamSelene40
» RE: It's her vote for the Iraq war, stupid!
Posted by: picket
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Posted by: theskywolf on Jan 24, 2007 4:53 AM
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We need someone who can take us to a new, progressive level. Get Hillary, get more of Bill Clinton. We don't need that.
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» Pro War, pro-business and great name recognition ...
Posted by: AdamSelene40
» DC is a minefield...compromise is mandatory
Posted by: psychochurch
» RE: DC is a minefield...compromise is mandatory
Posted by: Daniel Shays
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Posted by: marxalot on Jan 24, 2007 4:58 AM
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"If Hillary runs, she will need to invent a whole new form of campaign strategy: She will need to flip voters who pretty much hate her."
It is a stretch to imagine her actually winning. Isn't it? Please Dems, don't nominate her! You will be putting a Republican in the white house! Again. Aargh.
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» RE: I could live with President HRC
Posted by: oregoncharles
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Posted by: Steve Adair on Jan 24, 2007 5:12 AM
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President Bush certainly seems to believe 'strongly in something'; does that make him a good public servant?
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» Bush believes in evil
Posted by: edsmith
» Yeah, his adventures with the frog in school pretty much sowed that point up nicely!
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Yeah, his adventures with the frog in school pretty much sowed that point up nicely!
Posted by: edsmith
» RE: Yeah, his adventures with the frog in school pretty much sowed that point up nicely!
Posted by: aonghus36
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Posted by: Democritus on Jan 24, 2007 5:16 AM
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» RE: There's Something about Hillary
Posted by: Steve Adair
» RE: There's Something about Hillary
Posted by: oregoncharles
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Posted by: Andrew Zito on Jan 24, 2007 5:52 AM
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While the "left" opposition wonders why the right again wins when the true upholders of the "people's state" (democracy) fails, though they worship at the shines of the true faith/s of bitter fruits for which often they have been abandoned. 50% of the electorate not voting, though voting is such a cheap substitute for real action, that in other countries constituents dying and killing for what one believes.
Give use a meal and we will eat.
~A~
P.O.Box 1615
Altoona, Pa, USA 16603
An "internet pioneer" my passport is ready but who will call
universal copyright (c) 2004-2007 Andrew Stergiou
http://templeofreason.org http://zito.biz http://mplf.org http://ularts.net http://pushedpawn.org http://garagemusicstudios.com http://blog.360.yahoo.com/andrew_zito http://andrewstergiou.podomatic.com
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Posted by: edsmith on Jan 24, 2007 6:07 AM
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Posted by: Lincoln fan on Jan 24, 2007 6:59 AM
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Bob Reichenbach,
Director, The Lincoln Initiative
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» The DLC is a Republican front group devised AIPAC
Posted by: edsmith
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Posted by: NoPCZone on Jan 24, 2007 7:18 AM
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Or maybe you could go back to Arkansas, where you pretended to be the wife of a young, progressive Governor while working for Don Tyson, Wal-Mart and others. You know- part time positions, low wages, no benefits, union unfriendly, and gender discrimination from companies based in the same state. Oh that's right, you also served on Wal-Mart's corporate board.
You could go back to being the 'Who asked you' Hillary that stood for no election and then held hearings on healthcare with no authority or mandate from anybody.
That's part of the conversation I would like to start with Hillary. I would vote for Satan himself before I'd give her my vote.
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» The wives of right wing males will vote for hillary....in secret
Posted by: psychochurch
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Posted by: american on Jan 24, 2007 7:28 AM
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Posted by: hoscot on Jan 24, 2007 7:30 AM
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Posted by: earena on Jan 24, 2007 7:38 AM
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» RE: Hillary is a fine choice
Posted by: grrrampop
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Posted by: WitchyNy on Jan 24, 2007 7:41 AM
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My father-A truck driver...and all his friends..will not vote for a woman or a Black person for President..no matter what they say to a poll...GET REAL HERE!
Or -we will end up with another Bush.
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» RE: She can't WIN....
Posted by: Ellie1
» OP: consider the first response to your post.
Posted by: ABetterFuture
» RE: She can't WIN....
Posted by: MitPot
» She not only can win...but will win...
Posted by: psychochurch
» RE: She can't WIN....
Posted by: xbj
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Posted by: Robba29 on Jan 24, 2007 7:43 AM
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» RE: The biggest problem
Posted by: FastEddy
» RE: The biggest problem
Posted by: Persephone8
» wrong!!! In DC, success = compromise...go there and see 4 yourself...
Posted by: psychochurch
» RE: wrong!!! In DC, success = compromise...go there and see 4 yourself...
Posted by: Persephone8
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Posted by: blondesprite on Jan 24, 2007 7:46 AM
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GWB said 9/11 changed everthing. Then he, Republicans and some Democrats proceeded to change everything... from Habeas Corpus, The U. S. Constituion, privacy laws, propaganda laws, posse comitatus laws, banckuptcy laws and the list goes on and on and on. This article, in my opinion, was a waste of space and my time.
KBR is building internment camps, with tax payer dollars, and on US soil, to house American citizens. American citizens, of the co-called "fifth column" (dissenters and pre-determined sympathizers) will be suspect prisoners in these camps... scarey stuff folks!
Other Americans too, as polls indicate, have moved way beyond worring about race or gender issues. Unfortunately, the "media" has not.
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Posted by: ABetterFuture on Jan 24, 2007 8:09 AM
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Why does viewing someone as uniquely unqualified need be based on hatred? If I prefer a cinnamon pop-tart, it isn't necessarily because of my hatred for the "evil" frosted strawberry ones.
Meh. The 50%+1 political atmosphere drags human win/loss emotions into places where rationality, cool heads, and collaborative strategies would be better: the subtext of this article is that if you don't jump on the Clinton bandwagon, it's because you hate her.
That's a ridiculous premise, and does pretty good job at illustrating how Bush's "you're either with us or agin' us" mantra of life and love and war has filtered down (further infected) the political discourse.
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» RE: Politics...so emotional.
Posted by: gillianr
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Posted by: philobat on Jan 24, 2007 8:13 AM
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It is not her sexuality that is threatening, it is her stupidity level. She is a great saleswoman, who truly understands theatrics. She will win because she has stuck by Bill. Its the devoted wife syndrom that will get her elected, and it will have nothing to do with her ability to get the job done.
She doesn't need a spin team, because she knows how to do that all by herself.
We definately need a womans touch in the White House, but Hilary is far from what America needs. She is an automaton with tits.
She may end up being the first and last woman President, which is sad.
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Posted by: rwa on Jan 24, 2007 8:19 AM
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"Israeli billionaire and media mogul Haim Saban is at the top of the list of donors to political campaigns in the US."
"According to the report, Saban, a close friend of the Clintons, is one of the major donors to the Democratic Party"
********
Clinton's silence toward Israel's brutality implies the senator will continue to support AIPAC's mission to occupy the whole of the occupied territories, as well as a war on Iran. AIPAC is correct even President Bush appears to be a little sheepish when up against the warmongering of Hillary Clinton.
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Posted by: R.I.P. on Jan 24, 2007 8:29 AM
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As I remember Georgr Bush was popular with many as "the candidate I'd rather have a beer with". Really folks....
it is time to get real.
cheers, Rip Tragle
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Posted by: CJC on Jan 24, 2007 8:36 AM
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The reason to oppose Clinton is what others have said.
Before she voted 'yes' for the war she eloquently went through reasons invading Iraq was a bad idea. Then she voted 'yea.'
There's the disconnect between principle and political expediency. She's cold and calculating - see Cindy Sheehan's description of meeting with her in 2005.
She's so bright and clearly competent. Too bad she has sold her soul to her ambition.
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» RE: Another Democratic woman against H Clinton
Posted by: Robba29
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Posted by: shinseiji on Jan 24, 2007 9:25 AM
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And speaking of which, we need to be rid of the corruption of dynastic politics. We're looking at a quarter century of BushClintons from 1988 on.
But mark this for all of those who think that the Clinton Democratic clique is "much better" than the Bushes: the GWOT will continue as a major block on any real progressive reform; if and when President Cheney gets his war on with Iran and then Hillary ascends to the throne in 2008, her Administration will loyally prosecute Cheneys' policy just as Billy maintained the bombing/sanctions seige of Iraq throughout the 1990's - exterminating in the process some half million Iraqis by UN estimates, but remember, 'it was worth it'.
The bottom life for all those who offer nothing but endless apologies for the Clinton Democrats: until Americas' mad militarist march and the trillions flushed down the tubes with it are stopped and permantly reversed, there will be no money nor the political climate for substantive reform in the US or abroad.
War Kills Reform.
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Posted by: Donna_Darko on Jan 24, 2007 9:28 AM
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Hillary Clinton is like our national Rorschach: She stokes our every emotion, from our deepest fears to our darkest hatreds.
Good piece but the title should simply be "The US is very sexist." She's succeeded at every stage of her life and her presidency would be an unqualified success, the polar opposite of Bush's presidency, an absolute failure. She's a Senator for citizens who endured 9-11 and in the state with the biggest Jewish American population so she's been annoyingly centrist but I think she'd be great for this country.
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» RE: Clinton '08
Posted by: JCR
» RE: Clinton '08
Posted by: Donna_Darko
» RE: Clinton '08
Posted by: aonghus36
» RE: Clinton '08.....Your comments cause me to wonder if you are...
Posted by: ekipnrut
» RE: Clinton '08.....Your comments cause me to wonder if you are...
Posted by: Donna_Darko
» I'm on crack?
Posted by: Donna_Darko
» hey ekipnrut....or should I say "alternet staffer paid to blog here"???
Posted by: psychochurch
» RE: hey ekipnrut....or should I say "alternet staffer paid to bl.. WTF are you
Posted by: ekipnrut
» Stop smokin the crack
Posted by: Donna_Darko
» RE: Stop smokin the crack..... Darko.....PsychoC.. I now...
Posted by: ekipnrut
» You
Posted by: Donna_Darko
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Posted by: oregoncharles on Jan 24, 2007 9:32 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It demeans Hillary Clinton, wastes space, and insults the readers. It couldn't hit a worse trifecta.
Let's deal with actual politics for a moment. My own grudge goes back to her botch of the health-care issue, right at the beginning of her husband's regime. It was so bad, and so obvious, that I think it was deliberate: a way of pretending to keep Bill's campaign promise while sabotaging any hope of universal health-care for the foreseeable future. A perfect example of corporate-driven politics.
Then, of course, there's the war. Need I say more on that issue?
In general, her record is an extension of Bill's: purely corporate, based entirely on calculated half-measures, and amoral. Apparently they were, and are, a genuine political team. And that's as far as I'll deal with her personal life. Otherwise, I couldn't care less.
Then, of course, there are those poll negatives. No politician can survive, or overcome, initial negative ratings that high, especially when they are supported by her record. Remember, BOTH sides despise her. She can't count on progressives rallying around, as Democrats must.
Finally, her record in the Senate is, well, minor when it isn't offensive (remember the war?). Her only real qualification for the Presidency is her last name. Haven't we learned anything the last 6 years?
On a purely partisan basis, I hope the Dems do nominate her: combined with what W has done to the Republicans, it would give the Greens the best shot they've ever had. Along with every other alternative party. We all could use a wide-open race, for once. A 20% President might get us some electoral reform.
Returning to the article: Why on earth would Alternet repeat Mother Jones's blunder? You LIKE insulting your readers?
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» RE: Bad Judgement
Posted by: blondesprite
» RE: Bad Judgement
Posted by: MartianBachelor
» RE: Bad Judgement
Posted by: oregoncharles
» RE: Bad Judgement
Posted by: MartianBachelor
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Posted by: jack alexander on Jan 24, 2007 9:35 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I can't help but ask, all of this drivel (above) aside, is she as bad as the sub-moronic neo-nazi that is in office today?
Concern about her breasts? What about the Chimp's missing you know what that he substitutes with weapons of war with lies of deceit and stupidity included (to make up for the other missing 'parts')?
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» Just what is Bush missing?
Posted by: Ellie1
» RE: Just what is Bush missing?
Posted by: jack alexander
» It wasn't a waste of time
Posted by: Donna_Darko
» RE: This was a...
Posted by: blondesprite
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Posted by: snarlah on Jan 24, 2007 10:17 AM
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However, the salient point is that Hillary Clinton, like her husband and many other so-called Democrats, is Democratic Leadership Committee. She is as pro-business as a Republican, and big money taints everything that she says and does. She is also hawkish on the invasion and occupation of Iraq and probably will be hawkish in general. I don't consider that a womanly virtue.
When a group of Iraqi women were travelling the country giving talks about the horrors of what we've done to Iraq, Hillary ignored every request to meet with them. And that means there was no answer at all. What gives her the right to ignore important women? And why didn't she care? Probably because what she does care about is the same thing the men do--getting and maintaining power; meeting with Iraqi women might have gotten in the way of her grasping for money and power.
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Posted by: Toast on Jan 24, 2007 10:36 AM
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No doubt, HRC has the resume to function decently in the job. With much respect to Wendy W., flip-flopping is also called diplomacy and is necessary in world relations. The resoluteness of GWB has been tiresome and lethal. Regarding her views on immigration, she would enhance her electability most if she ran with Bill Richardson who is the candidate with the truly impressive resume.
The Clinton-Richardson ticket works for me. Clinton can capture many of the votes of Bill Clinton-devotees, blacks, women, liberals, Gore-supporters, and Hollywood. Richardson can capture many Latins and immigration one-noters. I think they can get elected and serve well.
Oh, gosh - there I go again projecting my own desires onto Hillary!
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» RE: Clinton-Richardson ticket works nicely
Posted by: MartianBachelor
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Posted by: mite on Jan 24, 2007 10:57 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hillary and Congress knows the 'Fraud' against the U.S. people by the Federal Reserve and Internal Revenue Service these past 93 years. The IRS's own code says that taxes are voluntary when it comes to tax on our labor.
U.S. Constitution Article 1 Section: 8
www.supremelaw.org/sls/31answers.htm
www.givemeliberty.org www.originalintent.org
www.freedomtofascism.com
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Posted by: SteveB on Jan 24, 2007 11:09 AM
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What evidence does the author give that Americans in general, not just silly reporters from the New York Times or people who've had books published by Regnery, are obsessed with Hillary? Consider this ridiculous claim:
"Americans happily participated in a cnn/USA Today/Gallup poll to determine whether Hillary should get a divorce."
Oh, so if a thousand people with nothing better to do don't hang up the phone when asked this question, it means "Americans" are "happily participating" in the Hillary obsession?
Or how about this:
"Almost every American has an opinion about Hillary."
Wow, what a startling observation. A woman who spent eight years as first lady, and nearly six years as a senator, and most of us "have an opinion" about her.
I wish the author was alone in falling for the fallacy that if our media is aimed at morons, WE must all be morons. The New York Times isn't inspecting the Clinton's sheets because we demanded it, they're doing it because the people who do political reporting for the New York Times are IDIOTS. Check out www.dailyhowler.com for a daily exposition on this theme.
Until we learn that most Americans are much smarter than we give them credit for (and by "we" I mean the sort of well-educated liberals who might read Mother Jones) the media elites will continue to turn our political discourse into a bad joke.
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Posted by: Red Clover on Jan 24, 2007 11:11 AM
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If elected, Hillary would be the Democrats' Richard Nixon- a foreign policy hawk, slightly liberal on domestic matters, clueless in connecting to the people, and surrounded by enemies, real and imagined. We need something better from the nation's first female President if we are too see more of them anytime soon.
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» Good analogy (RE: A Democratic Nixon), nm
Posted by: jdylarid
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Posted by: Blueprelude on Jan 24, 2007 11:54 AM
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» RE: How About A GOOD Female Candidate Instead? ..A Black..Woman...of character
Posted by: ekipnrut
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Posted by: ZPaul on Jan 24, 2007 12:27 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I want a candidate that is willing to take a firm, and not a wishy-washy stand against Bush and his obscene war. I think that candidate just may be Edwards. Yes, he changed his mind, I know(I can hear the cries of "flip-flop" already). He also did something Bush -- nor, to my knowledge, Hillary, has ever done. Admit he was dead wrong. I want a President that is not a coward. I want a courageous President. And I´m not thinking Hillary. I´m thinking Edwards.
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» RE: I Don´t Hate Hillary...
Posted by: gillianr
» RE: I Don´t Hate Hillary...
Posted by: dangerouslysane
» RE: I Don´t Hate Hillary...
Posted by: jmooney
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Posted by: wleming on Jan 24, 2007 12:45 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
what is she
generating miles of prose history
what does she do
where does she go?
supported the contras
loves bill too
hillary hillary so fair and smart
bludgeoned your way into americas stinking
media heart
hillary but a media tart?
consider the source of all her art
some journalist hack
some awful corporate part
oh hillary you are doomed to lame
by the people who write asking
"whats her game?"
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Posted by: drblack on Jan 24, 2007 12:47 PM
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Politically I do not like her or Bill. They had too many shady dealings and after the bush-clinto dynasties we need NEW blood.
Dennis Kucinich is the ONLY truly honest politician now and he will get my vote if nothing changes.
This has NOTHING to do with gender,but with integrity.
Pro politicians with slick managed public personas make me ILL.
Anyone who votes for Hillary will regret it. She cares for poer and that is all.
We NEED to have someone go to bat for FREEDOM for American individuals and a true effort to reduce the power and money of the Federal government.
The only way to end the selling of America and its freedom is to take power and money away from the fed and put it back into the hands of more local and accountable government.
Everyone including government should stay out of how people live their lives and how they treay themselves.
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Posted by: Techubus on Jan 24, 2007 1:07 PM
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This piece did not deserve to be placed front and center imo. I feel we would all be better off having never even seen such crap being floated as reasonable discource on a presidential candidate.
I won't be voting for her because of her politics and her history. I don't care about her anatomy, her looks, her anything superficial. I don't like what she has stood for, I don't like obviously calculating fencesitters. She is the democratic equivalent of John McCain. I guarantee both of them will never make it to the White House.
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» RE: I usually never comment without reading the entire article
Posted by: truly scrumptious
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Posted by: FastEddy on Jan 24, 2007 5:20 PM
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Posted by: karma_ran_over_dogma on Jan 24, 2007 5:31 PM
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Posted by: okie11 on Jan 24, 2007 5:33 PM
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Posted by: Shey on Jan 24, 2007 6:51 PM
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In my opinion, she is a power hungry, condesending political opportunist who gets off on "playing the game." Her voting record, disguised as "non-partisan compromise", indicates that she should call herself a moderate Republican. If such an animal still existed. As a Democrat, I am sick to death of having moderate to conservative Democratic polititions labled "liberal', while genuine liberals like John Edwards are marginalized as "too far to the left".
Where has the "too far to the right" Bush administration gotten us? Give me a real liberal of either gender, not a poser who always has one eye on what she needs to say, in order to get elected. If Barbara Boxer were running, I'd be the first in line to support her. With a broken heart, knowing she'd have a snowballs chance in hell.
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Posted by: Aufklaerung_Baboon on Jan 24, 2007 8:11 PM
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If Hillary Clinton is elected it'll be just like Bill Clinton was back in office, and this is not fair because he's already had his 8 years. Ditto with Bush Jr. and Bush Sr., the Kennedy family, and others...this IS NOT GOOD for America's democracy. We need fresh blood in the system, not 'business as usual.'
The WASP elite in the U.S. and the Jewish elite are in the process of merging together, thus controlling ALL sides of America including politics, business/economics, military, etc. They are intermarrying with each other, hogging up all the slots at America' elite universities (which are nothing more than eugenically driven breeding grounds for America's economic and cognitive elite), and utterly dominating all forms of the economy and foreign policy.
Yeah, so much for 'equal opportunity' for ALL American citizens.
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Posted by: doctorsquared on Jan 24, 2007 9:27 PM
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Posted by: juhuacha on Jan 24, 2007 9:53 PM
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I think that a great point is made in that people talk about her sexually and yet you'd never hear anyone talking about how much of a sex life W has, or McCain's manliness, etc. I think that its interesting how vehement some of the comments have been... I don't understand how anyone can expect a politician to be anyone but a politician, all I ask for is a politician who thinks about issues, at least a little bit (I don't have high expectations).
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Posted by: Betsy L. Angert on Jan 24, 2007 10:02 PM
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I love this essay. I thought it was fun.
Immediately after Hillary announced she was "in" I penned a missive saying I was out. I would not support her for I believe 'Hillary for President' is a divisive proposition. I posted my thoughts at many a popular political site expecting agreement.
I was lambasted. Apparently, Progressives have adopted the Eleventh Commandment made famous by Ronald Reagan; never criticize those within our clan. Some seem happy just knowing there is a viable woman candidate.
No matter what a person might say, invoke the name Hillary and flames will fly.
I invite you to review my exposé and share your thoughts.
Hillary Clinton Says "I'm In." My Reply, "I'm Out"
Betsy L. Angert
BeThink.org
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» RE: Hillary Clinton Says "I'm In." My Reply, "I'm Out"
Posted by: MartianBachelor
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Posted by: tobeimean on Jan 25, 2007 12:02 AM
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Posted by: asilsfable on Jan 25, 2007 12:51 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
NO ONE WAS TALKING ABOUT HEALTH CARE BEFORE HILLARY--PERIOD.
It was she who brought it into the public debate. It was only after her exhaustive research that politicos from both side of the aisle starting even discussing health care issues. Now, the topic is so important and it's on the top 5 list for almost every candidate.
She was hated by the Repubs then, and they chose to sacrifice what would have been great for the American public just because they hate her.
I remember Hillary calling out doctors and big pharma for high drug prices. Maybe she was naive--that certainly was a bold move. But she learned her lesson! To some extent, she knows now that she has to placate big corp interests.
I'm not saying that that's good--I'm just saying that it's difficult to get something passed if you don't.
Did anyone actually READ what she put together for national health insurance? Does anyone actually REMEMBER that she held forums all over the country getting points of view from all sorts of folks with health issues?
Anyone with health insurance now as good as she proposed then would be clicking their heels. It even allowed for alternative care. Though I thought is was a bit pricey at the time (I remember it to be around $190 a month), it was a good comprehensive plan.
Remember that when Jimmy Carter said IN THE 70s that we need to lessen our dependency on oil, Americans reacted with a vitriol usually reserved for treasonists. Now, it seems prescient.
And Ruth Bader Ginsburg was an excellent choice for Supreme Court Justice. Think Bill came up with that one on his own?
Try, just try to be balanced for a change...
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Posted by: ISlamIslam on Jan 25, 2007 3:12 AM
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I'd never vote for her, but I can think of worse people who could end up in office. At least Hillary has brains and balls.
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Posted by: Hal on Jan 25, 2007 3:33 AM
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Hillary continues to shill for the most corrupt and arrantly phony “war on terror” since before Viet Nam as Pelosi has taken impeachment “off the table”. She and Hillary refuse to even consider cutting funds for a sham, illegal war based on 911 cover-up lies that should have brought down the entire puppet government at DC years ago. (As it would have been brought down if not for an utterly cooked snake oil of an MSM).
These women have the blood of more than half a million deaths on their hands. And they are apparently proud of it.
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Posted by: xbj on Jan 25, 2007 12:55 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Clinton's NATO war in the Balkans (which resulted IN NOT ONE AMERICAN CASUALTY) was a BLINK OF AN EYE compared to this "endless" "war" "against" "terror", and he didn't have planes filled with Balkan "terrorist" stooges and thermite and micronukes bring down the WTC to sucker the US into it, EITHER. And God forbid, we stopped Serbian Nazis from doing to Moslems what Hitler did to the Jews. Lucifer forbid, the WAR PIGS almost had a coronary on that, more ventures like that which gained immense Islamic gratitude might have made their coming entire "Holy" Crusade they had planned impossible, by EARNING GOOD WILL.
There definitely IS SUCH AS THING AS THE LESSER OF TWO EVILS, especially if they are NECESSARY EVILS.
Politics, PERIOD, is a necessary EVIL.
KNOW THEM BY THEIR WORKS. And their priorities. Until a massive publicity campaign of billions of dollars can educate most Jewish Americans to the simple fact that Zionism is NOT A RELIGIOUS but a POLITICAL FASCIST IMPERIALISTIC MOVEMENT and has NOTHING AT ALL TO DO WITH TRUE JUDAISM, politicians are going to have to court Jewish voters the way they would any other large American bloc. Because far too many of them haven't gotten the word yet.
And with the Zionist Lobby spending billions of dollars to trash any candidate who doesn't play along, and cheating sychophant Israeli Zionists like Lieberman into office, it puts many politicians in difficult places.
So cut the good guys, or if you prefer, the LESSER EVIL guys some slack. They've EARNED it.
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» RE: NEVER IN A TRILLION YEARS IN OFFICE...
Posted by: opeluboy
» RE: NEVER IN A TRILLION YEARS IN OFFICE...
Posted by: xbj
» RE: NEVER IN A TRILLION YEARS IN OFFICE. Old boogers, Steamin' shit and fresh snot...
Posted by: ekipnrut
» RE: NEVER IN A TRILLION YEARS IN OFFICE. Old boogers, Steamin' shit and fresh snot...
Posted by: xbj
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Posted by: bambino on Jan 25, 2007 1:13 PM
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» RE: the analysis is wrong
Posted by: opeluboy
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Posted by: Shakti on Jan 25, 2007 2:14 PM
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I really admire Ms. Clinton. Good mother? Check. Just compare Chelsea to the Bush twins. Good wife? Check. Despite their problems, it is clear to me that the Clintons have a lot going on. Good Senator? Check. Her repuation in the Senate is excellent.
If Gore does not run, I will probably vote for Hillary in the Dem primaries. I would *love* for my daughter to come of age during a time when the country has a woman at the helm. How wonderful.
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» RE: Great Lady, Great Article
Posted by: opeluboy
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Posted by: Mewsician on Jan 25, 2007 2:22 PM
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Posted by: opeluboy on Jan 25, 2007 2:23 PM
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They are right-of-center, arrogant, Zionistic and pro-war (pardon the redundancy).
Clinton will not be getting my vote, no matter what new mask she puts on. I would vote for Hagel first, and I'm as liberal as one can be. I will not vote for a warmonger and a whore for Israel.
That is what Clinton is. Vote for her. But please don't call yourself a liberal. You're not.
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» RE: Boring and stupid
Posted by: joe in oklahoma
» RE: Boring and stupid
Posted by: xbj
» RE: Boring and stupid
Posted by: opeluboy
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Posted by: Thebigkate on Jan 25, 2007 11:23 PM
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» RE: Thebigkate
Posted by: xbj
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Posted by: potentate on Jan 26, 2007 3:20 PM
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» RE: Hillary Clinton Toilet Paper
Posted by: xbj
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Posted by: lulugeez on Jan 27, 2007 8:08 AM
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» RE: Opportunistic Neo-Liberal
Posted by: ekipnrut
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Posted by: Tara Downer on Jan 28, 2007 8:31 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In fact, Republican politicos have reported that her health care plan was shouted and shut down because she had ALL the answers to all the questions (without referring to notes). They were actually afraid that if the public heard her arguments for and about universal health coverage, it would be a done deal. Too many congress people owed the pharmaceutical and insurance companies too much to allow the obscene profits to fall.
As I read most of the comments on this article, I realized that most commenters don't begin to understand the complexities of our political system. Does the DNC equivocate? Absolutely. Do they put pressure on Democratic frontrunners to cut back on Liberal rhetoric in order to win elections? Absolutely. Do any of you think that a Progressive can win a national election in any other way? Winning elections takes money and strategy. Leave it up to Hillary to persuade her haters that she may have a better handle on reality than any of her opponents. Unlike most married couples (who also suffer through infidelity), she learned it, in public, at the culminating moments of a 45 million dollar investigation of her husband, the most powerful man in the world. Plus, she has the perspective that few others have, a history of dealing with all the other powerful people in the world.
It also occurs to me as I read the other posters that they would do well to read Plato's short Allegory of the Cave. Most of us see only the shadows of our representatives. Their votes may be based on perspectives that we can't see. As a former instructor, I have seen many college students change their opinions radically when they learned some of the uglier truths of American history. When a politician changes her mind on an issue, it may be related to learning something new, not selling out or flip-flopping or whatever negative connotation can be attached to changing or not changing a view.
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» RE: Tara Downer
Posted by: kay07
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Posted by: zeitgeist1979 on Jan 28, 2007 11:37 PM
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Posted by: kay07 on Jan 30, 2007 4:51 PM
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Posted by: kay07 on Jan 30, 2007 5:05 PM
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Posted by: kay07 on Jan 30, 2007 5:26 PM
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Posted by: kay07 on Jan 30, 2007 5:41 PM
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