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How Bars Exploit Underage Women as Commodities

By Liz Funk, Women's eNews. Posted January 2, 2007.


Bars and clubs often pay young, pretty women to attract more business. For owners, that means a boost in image and revenue. For women, it means an increased risk of harassment, or even rape.

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"Free drinks for ladies all night!"

"No cover for girls before midnight!"

"18+ for ladies, 21+ for guys."

These were the general admission policies for many clubs in New York as the city was getting into the holiday spirit. These policies were advertised on club promotion Web sites or barked at patrons waiting in line to be admitted to the bars and clubs.

But the warmer welcome that young and underage women -- those under 21 -- get at bars is not special to the holidays or New York. Throughout towns and cities across the country bars and clubs often offer discounts to young women.

At Club Paris, for instance -- heiress Paris Hilton's nightclub in Orlando, Fla. -- young women over 18 pay no cover charge before midnight and are admitted free if they have a college ID. Young men, by contrast, are required to pay a cover charge of $10 before midnight and $5 with a college ID.

While guys their age often get stopped at the nightclub or bar door for lack of convincing proof of age, many young women say they are admitted without a glance or question. Once inside, they are often offered complimentary drinks.

"Bars give away free drinks, then guys offer to buy girls even more drinks and then girls dance erotically with them," says Kate Morris, a 19-year-old from Massachusetts, who says she often goes to bars and clubs with her friends in New York City.

Jennifer O'Connor is a graduate student at the University of Albany. "I never had trouble getting into bars when I was underage," she says. "Granted, a lot of my friends were older. When I was underage I'd often tag along with my 21-plus friends. The bouncer knows if he turns down the two or three underage girls, he's going to lose a group of 12 patrons."

Open Door Is Open Secret

While there are no statistics or national studies about the incidence of bars breaking laws and doing what they can to attract young and underage women, Gary Miller, a senior at New York University, said it's an open secret.

The secret burst into the new York City headlines, however, in July 2006. In a second homicide that summer in the city involving a young woman who had been drinking to excess, 18-year-old Jennifer Moore left one of the city's most exclusive lounges intoxicated. Walking alone in the early morning hours along the city's West Side Highway, she was abducted and raped. Two days later she was found disemboweled in a dumpster in Weehawken, N.J.

"Bar and club owners definitely exploit women," said Miller, who wrote an article in November headlined "Girls exchange dignity for attention in trendy clubs" in the Washington Square News, New York University's student newspaper. "Women become a commodity of the establishment that owners use to draw male patrons in. I think the reason most men go to bars and clubs is to find women. This is why they'll pay a cover charge while women get in free; they're paying for the women inside. Bar and club owners know this. They know the success and appeal of their establishment depends on the quantity and attractiveness of the girls inside."


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See more stories tagged with: women, underage, bars, clubs

Liz Funk is a Manhattan-based freelance writer and college student. She has written for the Huffington Post, Newsday and the New Humanist (UK), among many other media outlets. Visit the feminist blog she writes for the Albany Times Union at http://blogs.timesunion.com/lizfunk.

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are they being forced?
Posted by: drblack on Jan 2, 2007 12:49 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If women are being forced to do this as happens in the sex-trade that is a tragic and criminal problem. Since adults in America should be responsible for their actions then what is the deal.
People often do dumb things. One can hope they will not be hurt by their actions.
These days you see the media glorifying talentless and stupid women (and men)going to bars and dancing some pretty provocative dances...perhaps yopung people in general should work on their minds and talents instead.
Young people have done silly things forever.
Their should be a way for anyone who has drank too much to get a free ride home. Drunk driving is a transportation problem.

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» RE: are they being forced? Posted by: Aussie Kim
sleazy
Posted by: rsaxto on Jan 2, 2007 1:11 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why is it that the USA has so many sleazy businesses with so many sleazy patrons? Could it be that top corporations stimulate this pattern of activity to maximize profits by creating a pattern of brainwashed corruption?

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» RE: sleazy Posted by: ryazbeck
» RE: sleazy Posted by: laoma
» RE: sleazy Posted by: Poe
» Love It Or Leave It? Posted by: ignition
Tis true
Posted by: ryazbeck on Jan 2, 2007 2:10 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I live in San Marcos, TX, home of Texas State University, formerly Southwest Texas State University, well known for its heavy drinking, alcohol poisoning and wild parties, until they started making efforts to improve their image as a respectable facility for education. It is still a big-time party town and this type of, women-as-objects, mentality is fairly common.

Where I see that it is getting to the point that is it becoming disturbing is in Austin, TX specifically on 6th street where a great number of ~21-26 year old college students spend many of their Thursday - Saturday night escapades. Not only are women encouraged to become as intoxicated as possible, without passing out or puking, but the guys are aggressive, plastered and horny as all hell, and they will stop at almost nothing to put their hands on or get inside of any remotely attractive female even when the female is obviously not available. I've become quite perturbed by the scene and have recently not been visiting that area (has been several months since my last visit).

It even occurs in the more upscale areas of Austin's downtown area such as the 5th street area where you have the 24 - 40ish crowd who have graduated and are actively pursuing their careers and yet the mentality and attitude towards women still exists, but is more manipulative and subtle, in my opinion. The men are more skilled at approaching women, have much more money, and are much more appealing, especially to the naive female.

I don't really see an end to this type of behavior so the only effective solution I can provide for my female friends is to be extremely careful or to avoid the situation altogether. These females in these situations must also be responsible for themselves, they are choosing to consume multiple drinks, they can also choose to not consume them, be self-respectable, meet people, and still have a good time. In my opinion the universal solution to situations like this is not strict regulation, like the American government thinks is always the best for us, but rather education on responsible drinking and "bar-style-survival skills" such as effective communication with friends, sticking together and watching out for each other and their actions.

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Suckers
Posted by: kepstein7777 on Jan 2, 2007 2:37 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Funny how guys put up with this discrimination. Not surprising...Just funny.

The trick is to dress up like a girl, get in free, then change to your regular clothes once you get inside...Not that I've ever tried that...Not even once.

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» RE: Suckers Posted by: Sushi
» RE: Suckers Posted by: bluestatehorses
» RE: Suckers Posted by: garyjminter
Woodpecker
Posted by: Fantasyartist on Jan 2, 2007 3:27 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Can't these young women( much like young men) show due common sense? This whole "ladette" culture of binge drinking and smoking is pretty dubious to my mind.

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Another symptom
Posted by: SufiLizard on Jan 2, 2007 6:09 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think this article points out another symptom of the shallowness of our culture.

Young men and women have always been a bit ego-centric and shallow, and to a certain extent, I think it's perfectly normal - if not always "healthy."

But as with most things, we seem to take it to excess.

I remember in my active bar-scene days back in the '90s we used to walk past a couple of nightclubs with lines around the block of people willing to wait up to two hours to get in and listen to crappy "pop" music while we could go hear the best band in town for just a $2 or $3 cover and no wait.

I had raging hormones too, but there was a limit to what I would endure to try to appease them.

Anyway, a lot of this is just the nature of youth. I'm not real anxious to encourage government intervention of people's personal choices -- although we should certainly enforce the laws we have that regulate the appropriate ages for admission to bars. And we, as a society, should try to make it as safe as possible for these people to get home.

The rest, I think is a cultural issue. We need a stronger sense of responsiblity and community so people look after one another a little bit. I was lucky to have good friends who weren't afraid to intervene if they thought you were about to do something stupid.

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Really, really, really, really important article here Alternet! Really!!
Posted by: MAD on Jan 2, 2007 6:20 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Well this is just about the most troubling story I've read in months, no, years. I'm outraged and can assure you that my senators and state reps will be hearing from me in short order!! Imagine herding these >21 girls into bars and clubs in order to attract drunken idiots! This is absolutely unheard of and it simply won't do! Of course clubs are exploiting this "commodity" and the poor, poor little darlings are mere victims caught in the middle of some troglodytic mating ritual. Anyone with a brain can see that. They are helpless and society is doing them no favors by treating them like adults at such a tender age.

We all know that men are idiots (in case this article didn't convince you) and not to be trusted, so it's clear what needs to be done: a woman, rare flower that she is, must be paternalistically protected and sheltered until the age of 35 when she is mature enough to make wise decisions on her own. Until such time, 18-34 year-old women are simply too young to be doing things by themselves. I would offer this suggestion. Any female under the age of 35 must be accompanied by a male relative everywhere she goes. What do you think?

In all seriousness, I don't know what struck me as more idiotic. This story or the fact that America is still so backward that we are allowed to consume alcohol only after age 21. It's too bad these girls are imbibing at bars and clubs because we all know that alcohol is not otherwise available to those under the age of 21 - ever!

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Oh my God, women are victims AGAIN!
Posted by: H_H on Jan 2, 2007 7:17 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"No cover for girls before midnight!"

Damn, that's diabolical. Enslaving women by giving them free drinks? How nefarious can you get?

Next thing you know, giving women free planet tickets to Tahiti will become a new form of torture.

Is there ANYTHING on this planet that doesn't turn women into victims?

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Zenobia
Posted by: Zenobia on Jan 2, 2007 8:13 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That young women are getting free drinks is not the problem or what makes them "victims," as some on this post sarcastically suggest. It is WHY they are getting the illusory special treatment that is the problem. A rat gets free cheese from a rat trap, and yet we don't say, "But why is the rat complaining? He's getting food."

The larger question, though, is why do so many women not get the TOOLS they need NOT to be victims? Why don't both girls AND boys get the tools they need to treat all their brothers and sisters with dignity and respect?

We recognize that in order for people to be responsible voters, they need to learn to read and how to learn to analyze media sources. They need access to reliable media/information, and they need to feel empowered enough to believe that their involvement in the civic process matters.

Likewise, for girls and women to choose--as active agents not victims--how to make smart choices and how to recognize when they are being exploited, they need to learn how to read situations and how to analyze the media sources that try to brainwash them into being products for someone else to get rich. They need access to strong, self-aware role models as they form their identities. They need to be empowered enough to realize that they do not have to follow pack-herd mentality to have worth.

Maybe if girls and young women were innundated with as many images of females as astronauts, professors, heads of socially responsible companies making a difference, contemplative poets, and athletes celebrated for their ability rather than for their ability to turn shallow men's heads---

--as they were innundated with images of bimbos jiggling for male approval,

they would think about themselves a little differently, and make more empowered choices. Likewise, maybe boys would treat young women like something other than the sex objects they see everywhere, conditioning them to think of all "girls" as hunks of meat.

Girls need to speak up and assert themselves against their own exploitation for the situation to ever change, and I applaud Liz for being one of those who has the guts to do it. That is how you say NO to being a victim and YES to being empowered.

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» victim victim victim Posted by: H_H
» RE: Zenobia Posted by: Logic's Edge
» RE: Zenobia Posted by: mmeetoilenoir
» RE: Zenobia Posted by: Aussie Kim
» RE: Zenobia Posted by: peckwood
I never understood how sex discrimination was legal.
Posted by: arclight on Jan 2, 2007 8:32 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Free for women, $10 for men.
18+ for women, 21+ for men.

That's illegal.

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» Lawsuit! Posted by: BlueTigress
» RE: Lawsuit! Posted by: Phenix
WHO SAYS WE DON'T HAVE LEGAL PROSTITUTION?
Posted by: Jackofalltrades on Jan 2, 2007 8:53 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is the fruit borne of our glorious progressive culture. We should revel in it.
Rampant STD's, cervical cancer, genital warts, abortions and disemboweled women are a small price to pay for the right of older males to enjoy these girl-children.
There is only one surprise here, and that is that they don't pay these female pimps to haul in fresh females from the age of twelve. Could this help but raise club revenue? Let us hope this oversight will soon be rectified.

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women get active
Posted by: kathat on Jan 2, 2007 10:08 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Im my college town we had several instances of girls being drugged and used by predators in bars. My sister's daughter and her friends banded together and spent time distributing flyers of the offences and the victims stories in bars and at the college. One flyer even pictured an offender who was later charged and imprisioned for keeping a girl drugged in his apt for 3 weeks and selling her to others for sex.
The flyers talk about a plan a action like never leaving someone alone when you go home, never leaving a drink unattended, etc....They have since moved but every city they go to they repeat the message.
I think women of all ages should see that this type of action occurs wherever they see this type of behavior.

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So what are you proposing?
Posted by: Logic's Edge on Jan 2, 2007 10:12 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Maybe bars should only be open to men?

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Until they get back home...
Posted by: activist on Jan 2, 2007 10:35 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
But even with laws and initiatives and special public precautions in place, Quinn acknowledged that young people "who go out at night remain at risk until they get back home."

I'm afraid that far too many women -- young or old -- remain at risk even after they "get back home"

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» RE: Until they get back home... Posted by: browngoddess
» RE: Until they get back home... Posted by: karoblink
Puritanism of the 'left'
Posted by: albrechtkrausse on Jan 2, 2007 11:07 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
is almost as bad as that of the 'right'. Really what the 'concern' is that adult women are having sex. What outrage! The purity of our women is under attack! Come on, we're not talking 'girls' here. They are of age. Its only the puritanical streak in the USA and the UK that makes this 'shocking' behaviour a public outrage. These women are of the age of consent and so what's the problem? Maybe people in the USA and UK should get civilsed and
1) lower alcohol drinking age to reasonable levels.
2) stop promoting sex as 'evil' or 'bad'
3) legalise prostitution
4) recognise that sex is fun and can be separate from marriage, long-term relationship, and procreation.
5) stop criticising other people and let them persue happiness in their own way.

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» RE: Puritanism of the 'left' Posted by: AlphaHusky
» No, YOU get real... Posted by: Scientz
Well, I like getting in to bars free, and I like drink specials, women-only or not
Posted by: ladyoracle on Jan 2, 2007 12:29 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yes, the point of these promotions is to attract men to the bar because there's practically a guarantee of finding lots of drunk women there, whether they are underage or not. If that marketing works, it's because men fall for it. If women are willing to take that risk for some cheap drinks, then that's thier choice.

But women can take advantage of the offers without becoming victims. And men can find other clubs with gender-neutral drink specials and covers.

In my years of clubbing (and I look like a Barbie), I've never been come onto by a guy who pressured me, or even attempted to pressure me into anything beyond perhaps a pathetic attempt because he had nothing to loose. Sometimes after being refused they call me a name, but, whatever. That's part of bar and clubbing culture. The time I was slipped the date rape drug, yeah that guy was a friend, not a stranger.

Now, what I thought this article would be about is how clubs pay some women to be there, not as servers, but just to be there. I was offered a "job" like that and turned it down. That kind of situation does place the women at risk for harassment that would practically be part of her contract.

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WHAT IS THIS CRAP!?!!?
Posted by: mmeetoilenoir on Jan 2, 2007 1:15 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm a club dancer. Therefore, lots of my friends are promoters, dancers, bartenders, etc.

THIS ARTICLE IS BULLSHIT. Straight out. Period. Did she even talk to any promoters? Fucking garbage.

Free for ladies, pay for guys: Believe it or not, this is so that you don't get too many drunk, horny men in one place. The more drunken guys you have, the more problems the bouncers have. Look, no club owner or promoter wants to get sued for something, and they're not sitting there thinking, "OOOOH! Let's get some young sluts in here, get them drunk, and pass them to the guys!!!" Bitch, please.

Age difference: Guys are seen as being less mature that the girls. Once again, you don't want unruly, young assholes in clubs. A three-year age gap usually evens this out.

18 and over vs. 21+: 21+ is what most promoters go for, simply because they don't want the liability, or the fines, of possibly underage drinking. 18+ parties are seen by many to be tacky and childish.

Girl "promoters": They make a pretty good number per head to get thier friends in the door. And, uh, women have female and male friends. Bottle service is more expensive, but you get a table, a room to yourself, interesting guests, privates DJs, etc. Also, one bottle can make about 15 drinks, which is worth it in NYC. They also give unlimited mixers and soda, because NOT EVERYONE DRINKS. And there are male promoters, too.

Wanting to get pretty girls into a club: This is wrong because...? Oh, right. Us attractive women are supposed to be attractive in the privacy of our own homes! We can't be confident in ourselves, yet like appreciation from a guy. That's right. How unfeminist of me!

Women getting ridiculously drunk: Hey, you're 21. Even if the shit's free, cut yourself off. No one's holding a bottle to your lips. Use some goddamn responsibility. If you know you're heading home late, be sensible and watch what you do!!!!! Crime is awful, but you have to not be making yourself a walking target, either. I'm not saying that crime is the victim's fault at all, but it certainly is yanking the tiger's tail if you walk out alone, sexily dressed, smashed to the gills through Bushwick at 4 AM.

ALTERNET, WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU!?!?! I think this article just pushed you guys past freaking Freeperville in the prudishness category. Why would you post an article that has so little balanced reporting!??!

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» RE: WHAT IS THIS CRAP!?!!? Posted by: mmeetoilenoir
» RE: WHAT IS THIS CRAP!?!!? Posted by: Scientz
» Also... Posted by: mmeetoilenoir
» RE: Also... Posted by: Phenix
» RE: WHAT IS THIS CRAP!?!!? Posted by: Aussie Kim
» RE: WHAT IS THIS CRAP!?!!? Posted by: mmeetoilenoir
» RE: WHAT IS THIS CRAP!?!!? Posted by: Aussie Kim
» RE: WHAT IS THIS CRAP!?!!? Posted by: mmeetoilenoir
» RE: WHAT IS THIS CRAP!?!!? Posted by: Scientz
» RE: WHAT IS THIS CRAP!?!!? Posted by: Aussie Kim
» RE: WHAT IS THIS CRAP!?!!? Posted by: mmeetoilenoir
» RE: WHAT IS THIS CRAP!?!!? Posted by: Composidore
The new youth culture
Posted by: Ghoulman on Jan 2, 2007 2:53 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
... is a very superficial one. One where kids want it all, and without guilt. They just move on to the next thing. I noticed my young female roomies were just going out to bars, getting drunk, and hauling guys back home without a second thought. I noticed this was thier attitude to everything, nothing had consequences. It's what all the youth are doing now after all, and in a culture they surf around in, exploited or not, easily. They don't care about exploitation, living life fast and sexy before the next thing is all there is. For them?

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» RE: The new youth culture Posted by: mmeetoilenoir
» RE: The new youth culture Posted by: Ghoulman
» RE: The new youth culture Posted by: mmeetoilenoir
SLEAZE IS "BIG" - BIG OIL, BIG PHARMA, BIG AGRO
Posted by: fiskhus on Jan 2, 2007 3:05 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Sleaze has NOTHING to do with true capitalism - and much, much more to do with the fact that the successful Business Executives most Americans seem to admire are really nothing but criminal thugs who excel in an atmosphere of bureaucracy and fraud.

As soon as ignorant Americans stop being so loudly approving of the very criminals who are stealing their tax dollars, we may be able to inject some morality into the business atmosphere.

But until Americans, as a voting bloc, vote for morality, it will be difficult. Too bad all those fundamentalist and evangelicals are NOT real Christians; too bad they don't care about real morality - too bad they only care about maintaining their "right" to kill some poor mother's son for their own profit.

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Sex is dirty, horrible and disgusting
Posted by: lrhamelin on Jan 2, 2007 6:46 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Sex is, of course, dirty, horrible and disgusting. We can't stop adults (21+) from engaging in this reprehensible practice, but by God we can make sure our helpless children (18-21) are protected from such unspeakable filth.

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Add this from Akron, OH
Posted by: DataDoc on Jan 2, 2007 7:37 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In Akron, the video crew that gets women to lift their shirts up worked with a local production company to bring young women into a local bar. Someone paid an underage girl to come to the bar, which was 21 and over, where she was given lots to drink, took her shirt off and danced on the bar. She claims she was raped by the cameraman in the production van (perhaps on tape). She claims to have been blotto drunk. Now she's suing Girls Gone Wild. Has this happened in your town too?

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What a JOKE
Posted by: Aussie Kim on Jan 2, 2007 7:52 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I know that bars in _Egypt_ charge men $20 and women only about 50 cents to get in, but I never thought this sort of discriminatory crap went on in first-world, Western countries like the US.

If they tried that in Australia, the bar owners would be in court on discrimination charges so fast their heads would spin.
A club here in Melbourne just recently advertised a Christmas party in which women wearing bikinis were going to be given free drinks.

They never had a hope - the club was made to cancel the bikini idea.

bikini booze-up


And in whose bizarre (p)universe is _20_ considered underage?

Jeezuz - if you can vote at 18 and drive at 18 and be sent off to be ripped to shreds in Iraq at 18, married to your cousin at 12 and have umpteen kids by 16, you should be able to DRINK at 18...

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» no aussie bashing please Posted by: jo5ef.k
» RE: no aussie bashing please Posted by: Aussie Kim
Susannah
Posted by: karoblink on Jan 2, 2007 10:54 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am deeply troubled by the Liz Funk article "Underage Women Sidle Up to Barroom Risks."

The message and implication of the article was; women who go to bars and drink alcohol are putting themselves at risk for rape, period. I am astounded that a feminist website would be so irresponsible by reinforcing these rape myths.

I am a volunteer sexual abuse crisis counselor, and I can not tell you how many times women have been assaulted and blame themselves because they were at a bar drinking and felt that they were somehow responsible. Additionally, because fear of being blamed is common, the decision for a victim to report a sexual assault becomes more difficult. Ms. Funk's article only will confirm these fears by erroneously placing the fault onto to the victim.

The “blame the victim” rhetoric is over; efforts need to be made for men (especially young boys) in creating a more positive attitude towards women. This is a very difficult task, however, reinforcing rape myths and posting them on a website for women to read sets back the sexual assault movement decades.

This article will do nothing but provide a disservice to women.

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» RE: Susannah Posted by: mmeetoilenoir
» RE: Susannah Posted by: H_H
» RE: Susannah Posted by: karoblink
» RE: Susannah Posted by: H_H
» RE: Susannah Posted by: mmeetoilenoir
» RE: Susannah Posted by: karoblink
WHEN ARE THEY GOING TO STOP PROTECTING US FROM OURSELVES?
Posted by: alicelillie on Jan 3, 2007 12:28 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Women who want to avoid this situation can simply not go to these clubs.

Women who go know what the risks are and weigh the pros and cons. They know there is a risk. There is a risk in staying home too; the roof could fall in.

The individual decides.

Having said that, anyone who perpetrates a crime is responsible for that crime. The person against whom the crime is committed is blameless.

We all have a free will. Life is risky, so you decide the risks you are willing to take, and someone who commits violence should suffer the consequences. To outlaw the women from going to the club would be wrong, and to let a criminal off the hook would also be wrong.

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Legal to dance nude at 18....
Posted by: Madam Hatter on Jan 3, 2007 2:36 PM   
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And why can an 18-year old girl dance nude, but this same "child" can't legally get a drink?

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More Lies Decit and Misinformation
Posted by: faultroy on Jan 3, 2007 7:48 PM   
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I am encouraged by the comments of both Alternet's male and Female readers taking this author to task for her biased misinformation.
This demonstrates that Alternet readers are getting the idea that much of the Feminist Left's published information is inaccurate, thoroughly dishonest and misleading.
Until Feminism-- as practised in the United States-- unshackles itself from the clutches of its histrionic, male-gender bashing bigoted leadership it has no real legitimacy as a viable social movement.
There are enough reader comments about the inadequacy and bias by the author to not comment further on them, but I'll address a few points that have not been brought to light.

The sad demise of Jennifer Moore as she was walking on the West Side Hwy of Manhattan was not just as a result of drinking and being exploited by men, but rather the fact that this woman was so incredibly drunk that she was not capable of processing any information. One wonders if she was with friends and why they let her become so intoxicated and why they did not assist her.
I have driven the West Side Hwy at night, and I wouldn't walk that road with two pit bulls and a sawed off shotgun.
She was not killed by a man, but by a very sick homicidal maniac--and that, in everyone's eyes but this feminist author's, is a substantial difference.
The author's citation of 90,000 rapes is somewhat inaccurate. This number is publicized based on a statistical sampling of college students nationwide that reported drinking 5 more more drinks on a given occasion within a 30 day period.
The study indicates that women are much more in danger of sexual assault when one or both parties are intoxicated. Normal social mores and defenses are lowered and people quite frankly loose perspective. Furthermore, the study indicates that the women responding and allegedly assaulted were also drinking.
The problem is that the author cites this to be rape, whereas the actual study indicates some form a "sexual assault (which could be as little as unwanted attention) to actual rape" was reported on the questionaire.
Because of the highly politicized nature of Rape and its misuse in the USA, we are not sure if the subjective definition that the women filling out the questionaires have, coincides with the legal definition of rape and or sexual assault as per the US Penal Code.
In order for this study to have direct validity, one would need to query the responders and clarify that their definition of sexual assault was indeed consistent with the legal definition of sexual assault and rape as per the penal code. Let us keep in mind that the study does not indicate that these women ever filed any charges and therefore leads me to suspect the inaccuracy of these comments. The study indirectly implies that no charges were filed against these "alleged rapists."
In addition, my research in finding this data, indicates that of the 5,709,00 college women between the ages of 18-24 that this number is extracted from: 97,000 are projected as having been sexually assaulted or date raped. This, according to the authors of the study, represents only 2 per cent of the total number of negative experiences cited by these drunk people in the study.
Two per cent is a very small number and when put in this context certainly changes the flavor and nature of the argument.

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» Daaaaamn... Posted by: mmeetoilenoir
Underage Women Sidle Up to Barroom Risks
Posted by: LizFunk on Jan 3, 2007 9:10 PM   
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My article, originally titled, “Underage Women Sidle Up to Barroom Risks” has generated a warm response from some female Women’s eNews and AlterNet readers and a fiery response from some feminist bloggers.

I think the response to this article is simultaneously very encouraging and also very disheartening. I think the varied responses are very indicative of what third wave feminism is. We bring all different approaches to feminism: sex-positive, anti-exploitation, egalitarian, protectionist, gentle, angry, didactic, feverish, positive, negative, educated, and, well, not. And we all read into articles in different ways so that we feel satisfied.

While I really don’t want to (and don’t have the time to) get involved with some of the angry bloggers’ generally-unfounded (and mostly vengeful) complaints, there are a couple things to point out:

News articles don’t always reflect what their writers say. Maureen Dowd started her career covering sports and eventually went on to politics; did she have opinions about what she was writing? Who knows? But no one put words in her mouth using articles she had written in the past on nearly unrelated topics to justify their assumptions.

If I wanted to write a really strident piece about how I feel clubs exploit women and how I feel that pertains to women’s sexuality, the team of editors at Women’s eNews would have classified it as a commentary, and it would have looked nothing like the article eventually published on AlterNet. I’m actually a big advocate of abandoning the drinking age and I have a relatively liberal approach to sexuality. And I’m the only one who can state my opinions for me.

Also, a word about publishing: it’s tough to generalize about what a writer “means” from an article that is thoroughly edited (especially at Women’s eNews, where three different editors critique each article before it is published) because editors often have much more say in how an article turns out than the writer does. And writers generally have little to no say (in my case) over the title of the said article they wrote.

I think the malice in regards to this article is reflective of the sad truth of feminism that we’ve hashed out over and over; women—even feminist women—seem quick to tear other apart, especially when they feel threatened. This is by no means to say that I haven’t participated in this bashing, but I think the success of the November 2006 elections said something on the value of cooperating with people you aren’t crazy about rather than wasting entire days trying to tear them down.

I trust that the feminist movement can work itself out (or maybe it won't? Maybe we should have a hug fest! Let’s all kiss and make up!), and I owe the greatest gratitude to the people who support and have faith in this eighteen year old with big ideas. Haha...

Now, this arguing is more tired than Britney Spears on New Year’s Eve… let’s move on.

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» Liz, don't you get it? Posted by: H_H
» By the way... Posted by: H_H
Condescending CHILD...grrr...
Posted by: mmeetoilenoir on Jan 4, 2007 11:49 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Uh, you're not Maureen Dowd. Drop the attitude.

Second of all, learn to take criticism.

Third of all, I belive I'll be writing to some of your publishers.

Thanks, kiddo.

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Grasping at Straws...
Posted by: Composidore on Jan 4, 2007 12:08 PM   
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Since the women are being paid, then by definition it is not exploitation. Trying to link rape stats to bars and clubs is a tired (especially considering that the vast majority of reported rape occurs OUTSIDE bars and clubs, thus not their problem). It's also a tactic that reaches back to the era of prohibition. If the girls are underaged then it's the job of law enforcement to make sure that the bar is respecting the 21+ law. It's accusatory views like the ones expressed in this article that give feminists a bad name.

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Progressing her career by writings stupidity
Posted by: Ambrose Pare on Jan 5, 2007 10:05 PM   
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I'm starting to think the main goal of these pseudo feminist writers is not to progress equality between men and women.

They are writings articles designed to strike a nerve with the reader.

What better way to impress your boss than have a massive response to an article you wrote?

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Gary J. Minter
Posted by: garyjminter on Jan 31, 2007 8:30 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How about legalizing--or should I say, decriminalizing---marijuana? I don't think too many fights, rapes or disembowelments have occurred when people are stoned on pot instead of blind drunk with booze!

Legalization is long overdue in the USA! That's another reason why I voted for Ralph Nader for President, in addition to his firm opposition to the US invasion of Iraq---Nader is the only well-known candidate with the balls to support legalization of marijuana!

Gary
(Gary J. Minter)
http://aidsvillagechina.blog.sohu.com
www.healthchina.org

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