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9/11: The Case Isn't Closed

By Sander Hicks, AlterNet. Posted February 2, 2007.


In defense of the "9/11 truth movement."

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Editor's note: The role of the alternative press is to offer perspectives that the commercial media won't touch. Having run a number of articles critical of the "9/11 Truth Movement" by Matt Taibbi, Joshua Holland, Matthew Rothschild and others, we asked Sander Hicks, a prominent voice within the movement, to share his perspective. For more of Sanders' views, see his book "The Big Wedding: 9/11, The Whistle-Blowers, and the Cover-Up."

No matter what you believe about who was responsible for 9/11, and how it went down, we're all amazed at how much political capital the events of that day produced for this administration: A bipartisan consensus on torture; an era of permanent war; detentions without trial; "no fly" lists for activists; the Bill of Rights gone with the wind, and a cowed professional media willing to self-censor and suppress pertinent information. The 9/11 "America Attacked" story has distracted us from the natural outrage we should feel over illegal wiretaps, stolen elections, hundreds of billions of dollars missing at the Pentagon, war profiteering, Enron and Cheney's secret energy policy.

But with Bush's popularity at a record low, a Zogby poll shows that over 40 percent of Americans now think there has been a "coverup" around 9/11. A more recent poll conducted at the Scripps-Howard/University of Ohio found more than a third of those asked said it was likely that "people in the federal government either assisted in the 9/11 attacks or took no action to stop the attacks because they wanted the United States to go to war in the Middle East."

So, it's probably no surprise that the propaganda mills of the State Department have recently been cranking out attack websites, targeting 9/11 skepticism. And it's not a shocker that the normal channels of media have followed suit (Time, New York Times, etc.) What's weird is how similar the attacks sound in the hallowed halls of "respectable" left political opinion. A recent column on AlterNet by the Progressive's Matthew Rothschild matched the recent bromides of Counterpunch's Alexander Cockburn. In both pieces, the way 9/11 has been questioned was attacked, with no alternatives suggested. Instead, questioning 9/11 at all was belittled with sweeping generalizations.

What happened to critical thinking? I thought "the Left" believed that the system's power is based on lies, exploitation and a media controlled by its own culture of overly cautious professionalism. The Left should be leading this 9/11 movement, not taking potshots from outside. Unfortunately, some of the movement's theories, like "the towers came down through a controlled demolition" sound esoteric at first blush. The "No Plane Hit the Pentagon" theory is a loose thread in a maze going nowhere.

The Left has no right to ignore or insult people for trying to assemble the puzzle that is 9/11.

Consider some of the pieces:

Assistant Secretary of State Richard Armitage is a figure bloodied by his work in Iran/Contra. He and then-CIA Director George Tenet had extensive meetings in Pakistan with President Musharraf in the spring of 2001, according to the Asia Times.

Then, Pakistan's top spy, Mahmood Ahmad, visited Washington for a week, taking meetings with top State Department people like Tenet and Mark Grossman, under secretary of state for political affairs. The Pakistani press reported, "ISI Chief Lt-Gen Mahmood's weeklong presence in Washington has triggered speculation about the agenda of his mysterious meetings at the Pentagon and National Security Council." Did they know that Ahmad had wired over $100,000 to Mohamed Atta, through U.K. national Saeed Sheikh in the summer of 2001? (Facts all confirmed, quietly, by the FBI investigation in Pakistan, and, partially, in the Wall Street Journal.)

That means that our top people at the State Department enjoyed only a few degrees of separation from 9/11's lead hijacker, Mohamed Atta. Here's the real kicker: As this story first broke in the Times of India, in October 2001, instead of retaliating, the United States gave Pakistan $3 billion in U.S. aid. Ahmad was allowed to quietly resign.

Bob Graham, D-Fla., who sat on the Senate Intelligence Committee, would later tell PBS's Gwen Ifill: "I think there is very compelling evidence that at least some of the terrorists were assisted not just in financing -- although that was part of it -- by a sovereign foreign government and that we have been derelict in our duty to track that down, make the further case, or find the evidence that would indicate that that is not true."

Skip forward to Feb. 15, 2006. Lt. Col. Anthony Shaffer gave a 48-page statement to the House Armed Services Committee, in which he stated, unequivocally, that his Defense Intelligence operation, Able Danger, identified Mohamed Atta as a major terrorist back in year 2000. But Shaffer and his team of "the 'best and brightest' military operators" were prevented from sharing this information with the FBI. According to Shaffer, during a crucial meeting the group's Pentagon supervisors and attorneys from the Special Operations Command in early 2000, the Able Danger team was ordered to cover Atta's mugshot with a yellow sticky note. Military lawyers at the Pentagon claimed it was to protect the rights of "U.S. Persons."

Some progressives are turned off to the Able Danger story, since it was the pet obsession of recently defeated congressman "Crazy" Curt Weldon, R-Pa., the "patriot" who planned a clandestine trip to personally dig through Iraq in order to find the WMD's for Bush's White House. And the Department of Defense inspector general recently issued a report claiming that the Able Danger operation never identified Atta. But author Peter Lance (an Emmy-award winning reporter, formerly with ABC), author of "Triple Cross: How bin Laden's Master Spy Penetrated the CIA, the Green Berets, and the FBI -- and Why Patrick Fitzgerald Failed to Stop Him," calls the Pentagon IG report a "whitewash … set out to prove a predetermined thesis: that these decorated military officers had somehow lied and risked their careers by exaggerating Able Danger's findings." Rather, Lance confirms that Shaffer, and his colleague, Navy Capt. Scott Phillpott, "found links to 9/11 hijackers, Atta, [Khalid] al-Midhar and [Nawaf] al-Hazmi as connections between al Qaeda and the New York-based cell of [the blind Sheikh] Omar Abdel Rahman."

When the critics focus on the wacky theories and not on careful, moderate, serious authors like Lance, it's a strategy to frame the debate. It steers the argument from going after the real meat of 9/11: the history of U.S. foreign policy in strategic alliances with radical Islam.

Specifically, there are a set of troubling connections between the 9/11 terrorists and the U.S. State Department, the Pakistani ISI (old friends of the CIA from working together creating Afghani Mujahadeen during the Russian occupation), the Saudi General Intelligence Directorate, the Pentagon, Maxwell Air Force Base and the Muslim Brotherhood.

Why did the 9/11 terrorists get protected from Able Danger at that Pentagon meeting? Who covered up Atta with a yellow sticky note? What are we supposed to think about the news (reported by Knight Ridder news service 9/15/01) that Atta had attended International Officer School at Maxwell Air Force Base in Alabama?

Atta was the Oswald of the whole operation. He is an enigma; everywhere you turn in his story, the details are wildly contradictory. Instead of a devout Muslim, you have a party-hearty Florida playboy, according to author Daniel Hopsicker, author of "Welcome to Terrorland: Mohamed Atta and the 9/11 Cover-Up in Florida." The FBI has sworn for five years Atta didn't arrive in Florida until June 2000. But in 2002, Hopsicker found and videotaped Amanda Keller, Atta's American girlfriend, and many other Florida locals who contradict that story. In fact, Atta lived with Keller at the Sandpiper apartments, just outside the Venice, Fla., airport, in March 2000. Thanks to the magic of web video, anyone can see Hopsicker's footage of Keller's reminiscences of Atta: in Florida, they hung out with cocaine-addled strippers doing lines in three-night-long parties. With them were certain white Germans, including one "Wolfgang Bohringer" whom Atta called "brother."

Why "brother?" During Atta's university years in Cairo, the engineering guild that he joined had made him a member of the group Muslim Brotherhood. 9/11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed is also a card-carrying "brother." The Muslim Brotherhood has been around since the 1920's, it was originally an anti-colonial group. Today, it's the most powerful terrorist force you've never heard of. Their frontmen in Egypt are nonviolent and run for office. But the real sordid history of the Muslim Brotherhood is that, since 1928, its anti-Semitism and anti-Zionist ideologies have turned it into the perfect partner in crime for Nazis, European fascists, American far-rightists and their contemporary counterparts, the neoconservatives.

Hopsicker's original research on Wolfgang Bohringer inspired the Joint Terrorism Task Force (JTTF) to issue a FBI Terror Alert on Nov. 16, 2006. According to sources close to the investigation, Bohringer was apprehended in the South Pacific on Nov. 17, but shocked the arresting agents when he claimed, "You can't arrest me, I'm working for the CIA." A former JTTF undercover operative, Randy Glass, confirmed that Bohringer was arrested and released.

Oct. 9, 2006, saw the release of leading D.C. muckrakers Susan and Joe Trento's latest mind-blowing work on "national security." "Unsafe at Any Altitude: Failed Terrorism Investigations, Scapegoating 9/11, and the Shocking Truth about Aviation Security Today" made 60 Minutes. The book savages the incompetence and "eye candy" of the Transportation Security Administration. This is not a book you want to read on a long flight: It turns out the "no fly" lists are pathetically inaccurate. The Trentos report that the CIA regularly lets known terrorists fly as a tactic to try to catch more of them.

Some of the Trentos' findings were too hot for 60 Minutes. The book's blockbuster revelation is that the Pentagon kamikaze Flight 77 terrorist crew was led by two agents of the General Intelligence Directorate (GID) of Saudi Arabia: Khalid al-Mihdhar and Nawaf al-Hazmi. Sound familiar? They should. They are the same two guys Peter Lance found being protected from Able Danger by top brass at the Pentagon. This same duo lived in San Diego with an FBI informant. The same duo took money from the wife of Bush friend Saudi Prince Bandar.

The U.S. State Department's dirtiest secret is its 30-year habit of working with the far-right radical Islamists. In 1977, President Carter's National Security Advisor Zbigniew Brzezinski (aka the "Democrats' Kissinger") started the Nationalities Working Group. According to his neocon minion, Richard Pipes, the group was tasked with using Islamic rage in the central Asian republics to stir up "genocidal fury" against the Soviet Union. (Pipes' son, Daniel, is a well-known neocon who headed the U.S. Institute for Peace under Bush II.) Brzezinski later admitted in an interview to Nouvel Observateur that he advised Carter to initiate funding for the Mujahedeen so that the Soviet Union would have to enter the region, engage in a Vietnam-like debacle and destroy their economy.

In fact, according to a Special Report in The Economist, the whole notion of "jihad" died out in Islam in the 10th century until "it was revived, with American encouragement, to fire an international pan-Islamic movement after the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan in 1979."

Throughout the '80s, the Reaganites were superficially opposed to the Islamic fundamentalists in Iran. But in reality, the Islamic fundamentalists were happy customers for U.S. arms sales. Care of the Reagan/Bush team, a triangular trade kept a clandestine flow of weapons, money and narcotics moving in and out of Central America, all to benefit the right-wing Contra militia. Meanwhile, the capital was flowing into the Mujahedeen through Pakistan. Oh, yeah, we were selling weapons to Iraq, too, so they could fight the Iranians.

The financial engine that helped run these operations was a well-oiled and bloody front bank called the Bank of Credit and Commerce International. BCCI was the funding vehicle that American and Pakistani intelligence used to arm the Afghani Mujahedeen against the Soviets. In the Pakistan/Afghanistan theatre, it moved guns and bombs in, and shipped heroin out. In Central America, it moved in guns and advisors, and took the payoff in cocaine.

When BCCI got busted in 1991, $10 million in State Department accounts was discovered. The CIA and the Pakistani ISI, learning to love each other in their first of many sick trysts, built BCCI into an international network still very much alive. Sen. John Kerry's investigation into BCCI started out strong, but eventually caved to political pressure. Under pressure from Senator Claiborne Pell (D-RI), Kerry fired his top investigator, Jack Blum. No major players were ever apprehended, censured, prosecuted or sentenced for the genocidal, narcotics-trafficking, lucrative top crimes of our time. Instead, many of them returned to power in 2001.

According to S.C. Gwynne and Jonathan Beaty, authors of "The Outlaw Bank," BCCI was "a vast, stateless, multinational corporation" that deployed "its own intelligence agency, complete with a paramilitary wing and enforcement units, known collectively as the Black Network." BCCI wasn't just a fluke; it wasn't just the biggest corporate scandal of all time. It was the perfect example of what big money does today in an unregulated global market.

When George W. Bush, and his gang of bloodstained Iran/Contra suspects seized the White House, they ushered in a new era of intimacy between the federal government and international mega-capital. After all, "Dubya" Bush had wasted a good chunk of his life in a cocaine and whiskey stupor, but the other half was spent in bad business deals with people like Saudi heavyweight Khalid bin Mahfouz. Mahfouz, alongside Salem bin Laden (Osama's half-brother), was a 1977 investor in Arbusto Energy, Bush's first oil company. Mahfouz later became the majority shareholder of BCCI. Mahfouz helped broker the deal for Bush when he wanted to unload his Harken energy stock. This same Khalid bin Mahfouz was branded by a report to the UN Security Council as one of the seven top Saudi al Qaeda money men. Shortly after the Bush/Harken deal, Mahfouz donated a quarter of a million dollars to Osama bin Laden's Mujahadeen in the late 1980s. According to Forbes, he put $30 million into the Muwaffaq Foundation, which the Treasury Department labeled an al Qaeda front. (Mahfouz is also legendary for suing anyone who says so, and has terrified and constrained independent publishers in Canada and the UK.) Is it any wonder then, that the heavily compromised, Bush-White House connected 9/11 Commission took a dive to the mat on the "financing of 9/11" question? They said the money behind 9/11 was "of little practical significance" when behind the curtain stood an old friend of Bush, controlling a bogeyman named "al Qaeda." Senator Bob Graham said he was "stunned that we have not done a better job of pursuing" the question of foreign financing, and that crucial information had been "overly classified."

Money talks. It helps explain why 14 other countries tried but could not effectively warn the U.S.A. about the impending 9/11 attacks. The money connections, the real history of 9/11, explains why the top bin Laden financial tracker at the FBI's Chicago office, Robert Wright, was so upset after the attacks. Through tears of anger and frustration, he told a National Press Club audience, "The FBI … allowed 9/11 to happen." What? What did he say? "FBI management intentionally and repeatedly thwarted and obstructed my investigations into Middle Eastern terrorist financing."

Why was Wright thwarted by his higher-ups? And what about FBI translator Sibel Edmonds' claim that, among the agency's Farsi translators, "it was common knowledge that a longtime, highly regarded FBI 'asset'" told the agency in early 2001 that "bin Laden was planning a major attack involving the use of planes," but after agents wrote up reports and sent them to their superiors "it was the last the agents heard of the matter"? Why were FBI agent Colleen Rowley's reports about Zacarias Moussaoui receiving flight training in Minnesota apparently ignored by Washington, causing her to charge that key facts, were "omitted, downplayed, glossed over and/or mischaracterized" by FBI bosses?

There are important questions that remain to be answered. The establishment isn't asking them. Instead, the citizen journalists out there are breaking this story.

Remember how much political reaction there has been ever since the people rose up, united across borders and shut down the war machine in Vietnam. For six years, the neocons have ruled by fear. We, the resistance, must drive them out with a little something stronger: peace, truth, revolution. We know history. We have a mission. Taste the clash of history, and you'll know which side you're on.

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See more stories tagged with: 9/11, 9/11 truth movement

Sander Hicks runs the Vox Pop/DKMC media machine and coffeehouse. He is publisher at the New York Megaphone newspaper and author of "The Big Wedding: 9/11, The Whistle-Blowers, and the Cover-Up." He lives in Brooklyn.

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Yes
Posted by: ryazbeck on Feb 2, 2007 12:50 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You are amazing, thank you for all the effort you put into your research, its much appreciated.

Follow the Money
Posted by: polyquat50 on Feb 2, 2007 2:30 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
is always a good rule.

No-one doubts the connections between Shrub and the Saudis, or the various US spy agencies and insurgent groups that suit their purposes. But this is a long way from the usual fantasy put forward as “9/11 Truth”. Perhaps if you could get the fantasy freaks to pull their head in, you might make some progress.

Of course, impeachment proceedings might do the trick.

» RE: Follow the Money Posted by: nha16
In his confesssion video, OBL said...
Posted by: dainin on Feb 2, 2007 3:27 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
“I was thinking that the fire from the gas in the plane would melt the iron structure of the building…”

Since we all agree that jet fuel fires do not burn nearly hot enough to melt "iron", and the Bush Scientists at FEMA and NIST cannot come up with anything better, what did happen?

http://911research.wtc7.net/

http://www.journalof911studies.com/

Many questions are still un-answered
Posted by: farhada on Feb 2, 2007 3:30 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You can say a lot about the 9/11 groups. Many of them are just crazy people, but the vast majority of those who question the official story, are actually right.

An excellent example of such groups is the Jersey Girls and their documentary "9/11 Press for Truth"

There are so many questions un-answered or "forgotten" by the officials that is really strange for a outsider to think about them.

The mainstream media's reaction since 9/11 was covered well and documented in the book:

No Questions Asked : News Coverage since 9/11
by Lisa Finnegan and foreword by Norman Solomon
ISBN : 0-275-99335-3


You can order the book online, or going to your library and order it there so more people can read it.

/Farhad

marta
Posted by: cuja1 on Feb 2, 2007 3:49 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I say poppa knows more!

» RE: marta Posted by: farhada
Propaganda and conspiracy theories
Posted by: LisaF on Feb 2, 2007 3:55 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Propaganda agents have historically tried to discredit valid questioning by labeling those courageous enough to risk ridicule "fantasy freaks" and other things. They also flood the public with an abundance of so-called conspiracy theories that make us all skeptical of questioning. But I ask you this, what is it that these so-called "fantasy freaks" are saying that is so unbelievable? That the US government was involved in killing thousands of people? They've done it before in many countries.

What 9/11 Did For American Fascism...
Posted by: alternet-yet-again on Feb 2, 2007 4:18 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...can't be denied. The Event was far too convenient. Remember that the U.S. also knew about Pearl Harbor in advance. It's disgusting that Progressives and leftist pundits would accept and exhort others to accept, less than the truth.
*Why was the largest crime scene in American history not treated as such?
*Why was the steel and pulverized concrete immediately removed and the steel sold for salvage without allowing forensic testing to be done?
*Why is Larry Siverstein's admission, on camera, that WTC 7 had been pre-wired for controlled detenation completely ignored?
*Why is hard, scientific forensic evidence showing sulfated thermite traces in samples of WTC steel being ignored?
*Why is the incredible theft, or insurance fraud, of $650 million in gold bullion being ignored?

The list of questions is filling books on the subject. And yet, Alternet authors want us to fall into lock-step with the "Official Story".

Until the political Left starts hammering away at the real cause and the real beneficiaries of 9/11 America will remain in the grip of a dictator and his cabal. Only when the majority of Americans realize the complicity of the Bush-Cheney administration will they understand where America is headed.

Cost/Benefit of Norad.
Posted by: douglashoyt on Feb 2, 2007 4:56 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The North American Air Defense failed miserably to stop four commerical jet liners, this during a drill.

If any question should be asked, it is: Why are we spending so must money on a system which does not work? Why are we spending so much money on the Defense Department?

» RE: Cost/Benefit of Norad. Posted by: MyLeftFoot
» RE: Cost/Benefit of Norad. Posted by: alibaba
» RE: Cost/Benefit of Norad. Posted by: Trazom
The Sad Truth
Posted by: terradea on Feb 2, 2007 4:56 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
... Isn't that the people ignore what happened on 9-11. It's not that they don't want to know what happened on 9-11. The sad truth is that a substantial number of American citizens wouldn't do anything even if they did find out that Bush & Co. planned and implemented 9-11. It's not a matter of truth; it's a matter of complacency. Face it: America is a country of fearful sheep, happy not to question authority as long as they can drive their cars and drink their beer and eat their fast food and watch their sports and reality shows on TV.

» I doubt it Posted by: sln70
» RE: I doubt it Posted by: cottontail
» RE: I doubt it Posted by: edgar_michel
» RE: Most People are Conformists Posted by: edgar_michel
» What a crock Posted by: swifturtle
» RE: What a crock Posted by: rwa
» amen, swifturtle Posted by: Beck
» RE: amen corner Posted by: rwa
» Third-rate psychobabble Posted by: brunowe
Keep Looking Keep Writing
Posted by: disgusted on Feb 2, 2007 4:57 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Thanks to Alternet for publishing this article. There is so much more. Currently Loose Change 2 is in the top 10 at Google video- and Michael C. Ruperts book "Crossing the Rubicon" is a good read on the subject. As long as Qui Bene
is the subject ,find out who placed the put orders on United
Airlines, American Airlines and Merril Lynch, Thousands of times more activity on put options in the week before 9/11
than normal. The head of the Deutsch Bankue has estimated that 15 billion dollars was made with insider knowledge on the 9/11 event. Keep digging do not let this die- this story is about treason.

» RE: Keep Looking Keep Writing Posted by: MyLeftFoot
» RE: Keep Looking Keep Writing Posted by: toxicnews
WRONG QUESTION, AGAIN and AGAIN!
Posted by: pierrot on Feb 2, 2007 5:12 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You americans should not ask how 9/11 could have been prevented by the CIA or who knew about it in advance (nobody in my opinion).

The important question to ask is why did arab/muslim people do it, what was their motivation in the first place. The answer is simple: It's the total frustration of the arab/muslim world about the blind support by the AIPAC controled USA of Israels continuouse strangulation over 40 years of the Palestinians particularely by the construction of hundreds! of completely illegal, criminal civil settlement in the occupied terrotories. Israels systematic state terrorism against the Palestinians led ultimately to 9/11.

The fact that this most obviouse possibility is never even discussed in the US shows how embarassing it is to the government.

9/11 is NOT a second Pearl Harbor it is rather a second Hiroshima. The US told Japan after only 4 years 'enough is enough' and sent two A-bombs. The Palestinians and their allies told the USA after 40 years! 'enough is enough' and sent two planes ... who wouldn't do it in place of the innocent Palestinians who pay the price for the holocaust and the stupid biblical Erez Israel bs. supported by the even more stupid religious right.
Force Israel to abandon these criminal settlement which violate countless unanimous UN resolution, the Geneva Convention, humans right convention, the road map and there ewill be PEACE!

Long live Billy Carter.

» RE: WRONG QUESTION, AGAIN and AGAIN! Posted by: edgar_michel
» The connection... Posted by: mjabele
» RE: The connection... Posted by: pierrot
The big picture
Posted by: american on Feb 2, 2007 5:18 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The big picture is that the Middle East has the oil, Afghanistan has the heroin, and Columbia has the cocaine. These equal money. Follow the money.

The people who have sat in the crucibles of power in this country for the last 50 years - those who have refused to get out of government and let greater men exist in these positions for the good of the country - the Kissingers; the Cheneys - comprise a junta whose intentions regular American people have very much been innocent of. They are using the US government - and people - to their own evil ends. Their fruits: death, deceit, treachery, greed, lust and fear. They are indeed sons of the devil.

Bravo
Posted by: toxicnews on Feb 2, 2007 6:16 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As usual a very well sourced piece from Sander Hicks. You are absolutely right about the way other skeptics frame the debate by picking out the more outlandish theories. This is unfortunate as there are so many hings that Popular Mechanics et al cannot debunk. Most of the stuff within the 9/11 truth movement is certifiable fact, and mainly form mainstream sources.

www.sanityforsale.wordpress.com

Although incomplete, this is excellent into the financing and intel....
Posted by: Prophit on Feb 2, 2007 6:23 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...complicity of the 9-11 farce. I do wish he had addressed the explosions though. Here are facts that are indisputable to me.

1. I saw the explosions along with a friend that morning going from the ground floor up through the windows and then the building began coming down. I never saw those shots of that event again. this is an indesputable fact for me. I have had to mentally become very strong because even those like this author, who support the theory of an inside job have tried to say it never happened and it did. It has made me stronger than I could imagine I would ever be. I thank them for that.

2. No one has explained the undisputed powerdown of the twins towers the 3 days before 9-11. It had never happened in the history of the buildings existance. Demolition experts say that all power has to be off in order to plant the charges safely to ensure no mistakes or incident that is unintended.

3. Why did no one pursue or investigate the role of Marvin Bush in security not only for the towers but the airports where some of the planes had left on their flights??? I have read nothing about any investigation into that fact. Someone may have done that but I haven't seen anything written on it.

4. Why did Ossama deny any role in this incident, while congratulating those who did??? He had taken responsibility for other acts of terror he had committed with his group. He never admitted to doing this deed. If he was indeed part of the conspiracy to bring the towers down, then it would have been crucial for him to admit it for the official story to work. Its what has always kept me from believing he and his organization were involved. Individuals paid by the CIA may have been involved, but not Al Qaeda per se. Its a loose thread to me.

5. Its very possible that both took place. We already know that Cheney, as testified to by Minetti, would not give the order to overturn the stand down to the pilots on the morning of 9-11.

6. Finally, (theres more, but for this discussion its final) why did the Pentagon officials lie to the 9-11 commission???? The commission recommended an investigation into their lying, but nothing has come public regarding that investigation.

All of the above are indisputable facts that are still unanswered.

Give those weaknesses in this article, I still think its the best presentation of this issue I have ever seen and I got much out of it that I didn't know. I am grateful for that and have saved this piece along with all the links in my burgeoning 9-11 file. LOL Thanks again. I think you did a marvelous job of connecting the dots.

I believe what you are saying doesn't preclude the controlled demolition part of the theory of an inside job. ITs possible that the admin simply made sure the perps would be successful in pulling this off.

» You are a perfect American Posted by: NowYogi
» I meant "thoughtcriminal" Posted by: NowYogi
Seems obvious to me
Posted by: veggiegrrrl on Feb 2, 2007 6:31 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Seems obvious to me, after watching Loose Change 2, that the Towers were destroyed by controlled demolition and that no plane hit the pentagon and no plane crashed into a field in Pennsylvania. Where is the wreckage? Where are the engines? The wings? The seats? The luggage? The bodies? The body parts? All other plane crashes in the history of the planet have wreckage. Not these. Just a hole in the pentagon the size of a cruise missle and a smoldering hole in the ground in PA big enough for a fire engine to fit in. Nothing else.
Where are the people on those planes? In a witness protection program somewhere? The film footage just is not convincing that planes brought down the towers and that planes actually crashed in DC or PA.

» RE: Seems obvious to me Posted by: channing
» RE: Seems obvious to me Posted by: johnpotash
It was the Fall 2001 terror attacks, not just 9/11, that led to this situation
Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Feb 2, 2007 6:44 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Note the absence of any mention of the anthrax attacks through the mail and the fundamental role they played in whipping up fear and hysteria in the US after September 11.

The material above is mostly taken from "Forbidden Truth", the expose of the Saudi-Bush-bin Laden-bin Mafouz money axis - see this excellent review. Why the lack of attribution?

Also, the author ignores the many claims that the 9/11truth.org made in films like "Loose Change": that bombs were placed in the WTC before the planes hit, that missles were fired at the Pentagon, that no plane crashed (was shot down?) in rural Pennsylvania, etc. Those claims served to draw attention away from the real issues behind the terror attacks.

One of the favorite themes is that 'some guy squatting in a cave in Afghanistan could never have pulled this off' - but as Forbidden Truth reveals, Osama bin Laden was a scion of the second most powerful family in the Saudi kingdom, with access to millions of dollars, a vast network of support (attained by threatening the Royals with internal revolution), and a thirst for revenge due to the presence of US troops on holy Saudi soil.

If you were president, and you got a memo (on Aug 6th, 2001) stating that hijackings were being planned, what would you do? Warn the airlines to increase security? Send the CIA off to round up information from the French, Geman, Israeli, etc. security people? Shake the tree a little? Or would you sit on your ass and wait for events to develop, perhaps hoping that a domestic hijacking would draw attention away from the looming disaster at Enron, and maybe give you the chance to invade the Mideast?

Then things get out of hand - the expected hijackings turn into suicide bombings - whoops! BUt your popularity is up around 90%, so you start planning for an invasion of Iraq - which was the long-standing goal of the PNAC, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Schultz, Woolsey, Lieberman (i.e. the Committee on the Present Danger, Team B, etc.). For the background on these right wing nutcases, see The Power of Nightmares, Baby It's Cold Outside a film on the links between right-wing neofascists in the US and covert support for militant Islamic fundamentalism in the Middle East, from the Muslim Brotherhood to the Afghani mujahideen - and then go read Chalmers Johnson's excellent article on Alternet today about 'blowback'.

Finally, the anthrax attacks - a topic that the 9/11 truth movement wouldn't touch. High tech weaponized spores created in a biosafety laboratory using top-secret methodologies - the perps must have been vaccinated - the only place in the world where that kind of activity was taking place was within the US military-industrial complex; Read about it at Arms Control Association: Projects Bacchus, Clear Vision and Jefferson - programs operated by the US Army, SAIC, and Battelle Memorial Institute whose goal was to replicate bioweapons produced by the Soviet biowarfare program known as Biopreparat.

Then consider how the FBI swept the anthrax investigation under the rug, along with the cooperation of Battelle Memorial Institute, the outside contractor who deliberately mishandled samples. USAMRIID at Fort Detrick, on the other hand, accurately identified the high-tech weaponized nature of the spores - the story is told in Richard Preston's, ""The Demon in the Freezer".

Put all this together, and the conclusion is that the "9/11 Truth Movement" was actually a clever attempt to hide the truth, not to reveal it. In fact, they seem to be the only 'false flag operation' involved in this entire business.

Thank you
Posted by: liviaturner on Feb 2, 2007 6:50 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
At least you have started a dialogue. Lets continue these 911 truth articles and show the readers what REALLY did happen on 911, NOT what our government or the Bush Regime wants us to believe.

Here are some websites to visit:

http://scholarsfortruth911.org/

Check these articles and films out:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6708190071483512003

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1822764959599063248

http://911review.com/articles/griffin/nyc1.html

UFOology: What a waste of rigorous research and
Posted by: AdamSelene40 on Feb 2, 2007 6:55 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
raw native intelligence.

Personally, I can't read this crap any more. Very smart people with very good information married to an emotionally satisfying premise that proves just how smart they are and how much arcane knowlege they possess -- it gets very old after a while.

Buried in all that tin-hat ranting is probably an enormous amount of good, anti-Bush information.

But who can be bothered to dig it out?

And if we did ... we're still left with three choice: vote Republican, vote Democrat, or turn Terrorist.

» RE: The best new smear: UFOology Posted by: edgar_michel
!
Posted by: farhada on Feb 2, 2007 7:06 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
>we're still left with three choice: vote Republican, vote Democrat, or turn Terrorist.

That is one sad way to put it!

I think that is the basic problem with the US political system. Lack of real multi party system, where the choices are always between candidates, who flip flop and prostitute themselves for lobiests but the polotical parties do not have a true and clear "vision" into the future.

It will be interesting to see what comes out of this!

Lets get some things out in the open
Posted by: JoshuaLudd on Feb 2, 2007 7:41 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm going to list some things that I think pretty well everyone can agree on, and lets see where that gets us.

a. There are unanswered questions about what happened on 9-11.. some that can never be answered, some that are only theorized about in the 9-11 comission report

b. Bush did not want the 9-11 comission to even exist, underfunded it, and gave it a very short deadline that was later grudgingly extended.

c. WTC 7 fell into its own footprint, which is odd when one considers the work that goes into doing that intentionally with a building being demolished. Here it seems to have happened spontaneously.

d. There was a lack of response from many of those charged with American defense.. such as NORAD.

e. The airtraffic control records for 9-11 from Logan were erased by the supervisor of the controlers working on 9-11.

f. Mainstream media and culture at large does not brook any questioning of what happened on 9-11.

g. The BBC has reported that at least one of the alleged hijackers is fighting to clear his name, as he is alive.

h. The men who allegedly perpetrated 9-11 are shown on video doing a number of very un-Muslim things prior to the day.

Now, I don't know about you, but this leaves me with a number of questions and few answers. Most damning, to me, is the fact that even asking any of those questions in the corporate media is not allowed.. that investigation of any kind is frowned upon.

» well, think about this Posted by: sln70
» RE: It is NOT too huge a secret. Posted by: kellysgarden
» It was more than 20 people Posted by: brunowe
» RE: It is too huge a secret. Posted by: heecheeboy
» OK ... Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: OK ... Posted by: Hal
The Art of Deduction
Posted by: R.I.P. on Feb 2, 2007 7:51 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is an old maxim of mine that when you have excluded the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth. - Sherlock Holmes -
We are dealing with an admistration that has shown us they can and will do anything ....... so why is it absurd for people to believe anything is possible?

» RE: The Art of Deduction Posted by: aonghus36
» RE: The Art of Deduction Posted by: mjabele
Gaia
Posted by: gaia on Feb 2, 2007 8:09 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Readers need to go to the several books by David Ray Griffin---The New Pearl Harbor, The 9/11 Commission: Omissions and Distortions, and his co-edited book with Peter Dale Scott, 9/11 and American Empire. All document the inside story and confirm the Global Dominance Group's plan for American Empire and the end of democracy.

Things just don't add up
Posted by: Cincy911Truth on Feb 2, 2007 8:08 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Like many Americans, I witnessed the events of 9/11/01 on television and was mesmerized yet extremely bothered by what I saw happen that day. Things just didn't seem to make sense. How could four hijacked airplanes travel in american airspace for over 90 minutes without any type of interception from our $40 billion air defense industry? Then I thought "How in the hell could The Pentagon by struck by an airplane“? The Pentagon is the very symbol of our military. Then the Twin Towers both completely collapsed. When the television crews were showing the 'crash site' of Flight 93 in Shanksville, PA, I found it impossible to believe that a large airliner could crash and disintegrate into such a small hole. Later that evening when I returned home from work and turned on the news I saw the collapse of WTC building 7. Very suspicious! So I had so many nagging questions from that day on...

In the summer of 2002 when the Bush administration started talking about the threats posed by Iraq concerning WMD, I kept listening to the contrary words of Scott Ritter and Hans Blix. Of course, Ritter and Blix were proven to be right.

So my question to those who criticize the 9/11 Truth Movement is simply this: given our government's pre 9/11 history which has been involved in so many criminal adventures and lies ranging from; the medical tests on the Tuskegee Airmen, the CIA's Operation: MK-ULTRA, Operation Ajax (the 1953 overthrow of Iran), Operation Northwoods, the Gulf of Tonkin lie, Watergate, the 1980 October Surprise, the Iran-Contra Scandal, Iraq-Gate, the false claim of Iraqi soldiers throwing Kuwaiti babies out of their incubators and onto the floor to die (which was the pivotal lie coercing the American public to support the 1990-1991 Gulf War), the entrapment of Randy Weaver at Ruby Ridge, the massacre at Waco, the Oklahoma City Bombing cover-up (whatever happened to John Doe #2?,) then given that after 9/11 we've had the PATRIOT Act, domestic spying/wiretapping, extraordinary renditioning, torture, fraudulent elections, the lies leading us into Iraq etc.... YET, we are too believe that the events of 9/11 were solely brought about by 19 Islamic hijackers led by Osama bin Laden in a cave in Afghanistan?

So what those so vehemently opposed to the 9/11 Truth Movement are saying is "Ok, our government has been caught many times in the past doing illegal and immoral activities but on this particular Tuesday of September 11, 2001, our government was telling it's citizens the ABSOLUTE TRUTH. Then after 9/11 it went back to it's lying ways again?

You'll have to excuse me if I find that argument incredulous.

Please support the 9/11 Families petition for a new, thorough and independent investigation by contacting your local House of Representative member and Senators in Congress at www.house.gov and www.senate.gov.

It's time to wake up people!

» RE: Things just don't add up Posted by: SENILEBIKER
» RE: Things just don't add up Posted by: Cincy911Truth
» You summed it up pretty well. Posted by: WhatNow?
» RE: Things just don't add up Posted by: jimbobuddy
» RE: OCCAM’S 911 SMOKE SCREEN Posted by: Cincy911Truth
» Miles of wiring? Posted by: Cincy911Truth
» RE: Miles of wiring? Posted by: CriminallySane
» RE: Things just don't add up Posted by: jimbobuddy
» Try doing more research Posted by: Cincy911Truth
Hicks is apparently a LIHOPer
Posted by: kellysgarden on Feb 2, 2007 8:15 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
and has brought up many well-researched facts. How about another article by a MIHOPer, explaining other facts, such as building 7, speed of fall, and molten metal in the subbasements of all three buildings that persisted for weeks, and the amount of pulverized concrete in those huge dust clouds, or even how all those human bone fragments got on the roofs of surrounding skyscrapers' roofs?

Perhaps the real crime is in the cover-up. Why is the media covering up these aforementioned facts?

» RE: Hicks is apparently a LIHOPer Posted by: Joshua Holland
» I am not a LIHOPer. That term is stale. Posted by: sander_*_hicks
» MIHOPers Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: MIHOPers Posted by: aonghus36
» RE: MIHOPers Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: MIHOPers Posted by: aonghus36
» RE: MIHOPers Posted by: Joshua Holland
» LIHOP vs. MIHOP Posted by: kellysgarden
» RE: my apology Posted by: channing
» RE: my apology Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: another slurr, check again Posted by: channing
» So you can't walk the walk Posted by: brunowe
» You're simply incorrect Posted by: brunowe
» RE: You're simply incorrect Posted by: channing
» RE: You're simply incorrect Posted by: brunowe
» RE: Try calculating Part#2 Posted by: channing
» article on bone fragments Posted by: kellysgarden
Election 2000
Posted by: VZEQICVA on Feb 2, 2007 8:18 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When GWB became president the nation turned into a herd of sheep with a leader who they believed walked on water. Don't question anyone or anything. That set the mood for just about anything. It turned out to be 9/11/2001. Followed by Iraq. The skeptics were dealt with. Harshly. Remeber? Only recently have people realized that we must be allowed to question and have our doubts. It's downright patriotic. Blind followers march off the cliff. Thanks, ANNA

Bringing down the towers
Posted by: mzbuz on Feb 2, 2007 8:53 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think they were controlled demolishions. I've always thought so. No building that tall falls within its own footprint without controlled demolishions. Otherwise all steel support beams would have had to melt at exactly the same time throughout the building. A most unlikely proposition, even more unlikely to have repeated itself 3 times in the same day. I think the explosives were planted, I think it was done as a security measure after the first attack on the towers because it occured to someone that if the building had collapsed as intended, it would have fallen sidewise, not straight down, thereby exponentially increases the damage to surrounding area, which is urban with businesses, schools, appartments, etc. I think the guy that did it died in the towers, Bill somebody, I forget his name, but thats what I think.

» RE: Bringing down the towers Posted by: channing
» RE: Bringing down the towers Posted by: CriminallySane
Interesting take on the complete 9/11 picture
Posted by: Raj on Feb 2, 2007 8:58 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Here's a good read on what might have happened if the last plane did it's job:

http://exodus2006.com/9_11-failed.htm

ALTERNATIVE MEDIA CENSORSHIP: SPONSORED BY CIA's FORD FOUNDATION?
Posted by: rwa on Feb 2, 2007 9:06 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
by bob feldman


The mass-circulation weekly TEMPO accused Ford of having once played, at the urging of the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency, a covert role in Indonesian political affairs by consciously supporting the work of individuals who were deemed to be sympathetic to the anti-communist aims of American foreign policy.
— Chronicle of Philanthropy, 12/13/01

The Ford Foundation's history of collaboration and interlock with the CIA in pursuit of U.S. world hegemony is now a well-documented fact...The Ford Foundation has in some ways refined their style of collaboration with Washington's attempt to produce world cultural domination, but retained the substance of that policy...The ties between the top officials of the Ford Foundation and the U.S. government are explicit and continuing.
—James Petras in "The Ford Foundation and the CIA: A documented case of philanthropic collaboration with the Secret Police" on 12/15/2001


The multi-billion dollar Ford Foundation's historic relationship to the Central Intelligence Agency [CIA] is rarely mentioned on Pacifica's DEMOCRACY NOW / Deep Dish TV show, on FAIR's COUNTERSPIN show, on the WORKING ASSETS RADIO show, on The Nation Institute's RADIO NATION show, on David Barsamian's ALTERNATIVE RADIO show or in the pages of PROGRESSIVE, MOTHER JONES and Z magazine. One reason may be because the Ford Foundation and other Establishment foundations subsidize the Establishment Left's alternative media gatekeepers / censors.

http://www.questionsquestions.net/gatekeepers.html

» So get a website ... Posted by: Joshua Holland
» But aonghus ... Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Informationclearinghouse.info Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Informationclearinghouse.info Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: These are not good examples anyway. Posted by: Joshua Holland
» Just to be clear ... Posted by: Joshua Holland
» Clearly Off... Posted by: Hal
A ludicrous pile of half-connections and assumptions
Posted by: Boomerang on Feb 2, 2007 9:35 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Let me know when you can actually prove anything.

And you should try not contradicting yourself sometimes. Jihad died in the 10th century, yet the 1920 Muslim Brotherhood are the bloodiest terrorists we've never heard of? That's just blatantly not true.

Also, I'd like to throw a hearty "don't bother" to the legion of "Truthinessers" who will inevitably post on this comment to go "ZOMG OPEN YOUR EYES TEH CIA IS EVERYWHERE!" I live in reality, thanks.

A couple of more questions
Posted by: CJC on Feb 2, 2007 9:44 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
1. Here is one aspect of the whole 9/11 story that is rarely mentioned any more but still troubles me.
Why do we have flight schools where anyone with the tuition $$ can take lessons in learning how to fly jumbo jets? I think it's just insane. Can you sign up to take a course in brain surgery? I don't think so.
And what has happened to these flight schools? Can you still sign up to learn how to fly jumbo jets? Where are the investigative reporters?
2. No mention is made any more of the fact that Prince Bandar, then the Saudi ambassador, was the first invitee to the White House for a private dinner with Bush on Sept. 12 or 13. (It's in Michael Moore's movie) Never mind a past history of friendship and connections. The first person invited to the White House is the ambassador of the country of which 15/19 hijackers were citizens/subjects??
3. Why was a private plane allowed to take members of the extended bin Laden clan and other Saudis out of the country BEFORE the US air space was opened up? I think the gov't has tried from time to time to deny that it happened, but here in Boston it was reported in the Globe because one of the bin Laden family was a graduate student here and he went on the flight.
The answers to these questions aren't necessarily relevant to the conspiracy theory, but they certainly have dropped out of the public discourse.

This would be interesting if it correlated to the facts
Posted by: Ranillon on Feb 2, 2007 9:44 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It seems that Mr. Hicks arguments can be boiled down to the following equation:

The government was incompetent in its handling of terrorism in the lead up to 9/11 + Bush and Co. used 9/11 for political advantage + there are vague musings and opinions that might be interpreted as signs of a larger conspiracy + most of all, Bush and Co. are bad people = proof that a Grand Conspiracy on the part of Bush and Co. was really behind the 9/11 attacks.

I was never too good at math, but even so this equation clearly does not produce the result that Mr. Hicks seems desperate to achieve. Sure, the government failed to properly handle the terrorist threat. Yes, the White House and Republicans shamefully used 9/11 for their political ends. But, that is hardly sufficient to justify this absurd leap of logic that some Grand Conspiracy has covered up the truth and is to blame for 9/11.

Where are the FACTS?? No, I don't mean second/third/fourth hand rumors about this or that person doing something supposedly nefarious. And, no, I don't mean ad hominem attacks meant to suggest that one can be guilty of the worst sorts of crimes merely because they are supposedly bad people (or, worse, Republicans). Mr. Hicks argument above is little more than character assassination dressed up in the mantle of a supposed "search for truth". I'm all for truth searching, but it MUST be grounded in REAL WORLD VERIFIED FACTS.

The facts are that all the evidence CLEARLY shows that a bunch of terrorists without connections to the US government benefited from that same government's incompetence when they managed to hijack four planes and fly three of them into buildings. So far at least, evidence to the contrary from 9/11 skeptics is EASILY refuted if one just looks at the data and applies common sense. Most of their criticisms can be written off to a misunderstanding of physics and building mechanics or, perhaps more accurately, wishful thinking.

I also think a lot of this comes from the misconception that somehow we should know everything about every event that happens. There is no such thing as 100% knowledge. However, one can certainly tell the difference between one theory that best fits the facts and another that seems more designed to allow people vent their angers and frustrations than describe reality.

I think Bush is a horrible president too and that his opportunistic use of 9/11 is disgusting, but I am not willing to let my dislike lead me into self-delusion. If the 9/11 "Truth" movement is correct then SHOW US THE FACTS. Until you do no amount of character assassination, hearsay, or wishful thinking is going to hide the fact that there is no real substance to the movement's claims.

» the facts Posted by: sander_*_hicks
Neocon past speaks volumes:
Posted by: rwa on Feb 2, 2007 10:01 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"But the real sordid history of the Muslim Brotherhood is that, since 1928, its anti-Semitism and anti-Zionist ideologies have turned it into the perfect partner in crime for Nazis, European fascists, American far-rightists and their contemporary counterparts, the neoconservatives."

At first this sentence might be hard to follow since the neoconservatives are first and foremost promoters of zionism.
The following excerpt puts it in a more comprehensible light:

Reinhardt Heyndrich, SS’s secret services’ chief declared:

"It can not take too much time before Palestine will be able to welcome again its sons it had lost for over one thousand years. May our good wishes and our official benevolence accompany them." (7)

Settling Palestine was highly esteemed by the Nazis. You know, colonialists get along well with each other. That is just to remind you that the Nazis, with the aware help of the Zionists, had struck only those Jews who proposed to live in the countries they had been born in and did not want to become responsible for Palestine’s occupation and the consequent and inevitable expulsion of the Palestinians.

These Jewish victims were not Zionists, if anything, they were either assimilationists or anti-Zionists.

After the Holocaust, the West did nothing but reward the Zionists by allotting them the Palestinians’ land and making those people who had no blame pay the high price of the Jews’ annihilation that happened due to the direct responsibility of some European nations and to other peoples’ disinterest, as well as to the Zionist’s crazy plan.

The cooperation between Zionists and Nazis was also possible, beyond the concrete aspect of the common will to bring the Jews to Palestine, because the Zionist ideology and the Nazi one shared one point, as admitted by the Zionist Jew Prinz:

"A State founded on the tenet of a nation’s and a race’s purity (that’s Nazi Germany) can have respect only for those Jews who regard themselves in the same way." (8)

The figure himself was aware of the paradoxical situation that was emerging and acknowledged:

"Taking actions was very awkward to the Zionists. It was morally embarrassing to look as if they were considered as the dearest sons of the Nazi government, particularly at a moment when it was dissolving the Jewish anti-Zionist youth groups and it seemed to prefer the Zionists. The Nazis were demanding a "more consistently Zionist behaviour." (9) ...

(7) Reinhardt Heyndrich, SS secret services’ chief, The Visible Enemy, article issued in Das Schwarze Korps, SS’s official organ, May 1935.
(8) Joachim Prinz, (1936), quoted in Benyamin Matuvo’s The Zionist Wish and the Nazi Deed, Issues, (1966/67), p. 12.
(9) Joachim Prinz, Zionism under the Nazi Government, in Young Zionist, London, November 1937, p. 18.


http://www.iraq-war.ru/article/117142

Progressives and the "conspiratorial"
Posted by: jdylarid on Feb 2, 2007 10:12 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As should be expected for any highly controversial topic with much uncertainty and implications for society at large, the 9-11 "truth movement" is a minefield of disinformation. However, Sander Hicks here presents a sober and well-reasoned case that should leave rational people skeptical of the official account, and especially conclusions drawn from the official account and disseminated by the ruling establishment (e.g., "war has been declared on us by a dangerous Islamic paramilitary band threatening to destroy our country").

I think much of the reason that libs/progs react negatively to articles like this is that these ideas seriously threaten their worldview. Despite criticisms of the U.S. government, large corporations and the like, most progressives believe that reality is more or less as is presented by the corporate media and academic establishment. They also tend to believe that while governments can be commandeered by bad people, the state itself remains the primary mechanism for the improvement of society. Hence, it is important that we keep our faith and trust in the state and its attendants.

Compare this to the "far right"--I'm referring to anti-state types here (not Republicans, "conservatives", etc.). This crowd is far more likely to embrace "conspiratorial" thinking because it inherently questions the state and the establishment. Of course the far right is generally *too* embracing of conspiratorial thinking...

Anyway, kudos to AlterNet for running this piece. I doubt it will change that many minds though.

Brilliant!
Posted by: reprehensor on Feb 2, 2007 10:32 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What I find painful is that the smug "debunkers" of the 9/11 skeptics will just gloss over all of this, happy to obsess on claims & theories that they can thrash over and over again in online echo-chambers like the James Randi forum.

Nonetheless, voices like Hicks' will rise above the din and be heard. Alternet should be lauded for publishing this piece, (latecoming as it is), and the authors who constantly sneer and deride the 9/11 skeptics should take note.

With US forces poised to attack Iran, they lack only a pretext. 9/11 is considered by many to be a pretext for the "War on Terror", and the subsequent invasions of Afghanistan and Iran.

On January 11, Congressman Ron Paul went to the House floor and warned of a new Gulf of Tonkin - type incident that would be blamed on Iran and used as a pretext for war:

2 minute YouTube video

On February 1, CFR bigwig Zbigniew Brzezinski went to the Senate's Committee on Foreign Relations and warned of a terrorist act in the U.S. blamed on Iran that could be used to trigger the war.

This is not idle speculation. Brzezinski is an insider at the highest level in this country.

A lobotomized Left is of no value. A conscious Left is a formidable adversary.

There must be an end to False Flag terror. NOW.

Congratulations, Sander Hicks!

» RE: Brilliant! Posted by: Gold9472
FINALLY, a progressive publication points out the 9/11 LIES !!
Posted by: findtruth on Feb 2, 2007 10:37 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I smelled a rat on 9/11 when the corporate media made a huge to-do about the "insider stock trading" immediately after 9/11. I turned to my wife and said, "if they follow this story it'll show who really did this. If they drop it, it was an inside job." The corporate media dropped the story.

Here's why. Some of the pre-9/11 stock bets against United and American Airlines were made at a known CIA connected financial institution, AB Brown Trust. The acting head of AB Brown quietly resigned on 9/11/2001 after it was discovered that those insider stock trades were made there. He was a friend of the former head of AB Brown, then Executive Director of the CIA, Buzzy Krongard.

The smell of 9/11 began when all FAA and DOD flight intercept procedures were violated on 9/11. Flights that normally would be intercepted in 15 minutes of going off course, were allowed to fly for up to one and a half HOURS on 9/11 over the most protected airspace in the world, with NOT ONE fighter interceptor turning a wheel until it was too late.

We know from Norm Minetta's testimony to the 9/11 Commission (which they left out of their report) that Cheney likely ordered the stand down. Because when an aid entered the White House bunker announcing the craft nearing the Pentagon, Cheney barked, "Of course the orders still stand?" The orders had to have been to let it strike, otherwise normal intercept procedures would have occurred. This is according to former Air Force Lt. Colonel, Robert Bowman, now a 9/11 truth activist.

The progressive movement, which I've been a part of can no longer pretend we haven't been lied to about 9/11. 9/11 tore our nation apart, and so long as the lie stands Americans will be herded by fear into insane policies. If we attack Iran, the American progressives will be to blame for treating 9/11 truth researchers like pariahs, rather than like the heroes they have been and are today.

The rest of the world knows 9/11 was an inside job, because their media has not censored the truth as ours has. When the truth comes out about 9/11, the corporate media giants must be hacked apart, to create a truly free independent media in this nation. The media, including the left media's compliance with the official 9/11 lies is horrid, at the least, and criminal at the worst.

The truth shall set us free. I hope AlterNet runs articles by David Ray Griffin and Prof. Steven Jones on the physics of the WTC collapses. Planes and fire did not bring those towers down. They were the first 3 steel reinforced skyscrapers in engineering history to come down due to fire or external damage. It was controlled demolition that brought them down. Prof. Jones found traces of thermate, a controlled demolition steel cutting agent, on WTC debris.

» but Josh Posted by: famouspipeliner
» RE: but Josh Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: but Josh Posted by: famouspipeliner
» RE: but Josh Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: but Josh Posted by: famouspipeliner
» Either or Posted by: famouspipeliner
ALL I WANT IS THE TRUTH!!!
Posted by: mime on Feb 2, 2007 10:50 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
All vapid "tin foil hat conspiracy theorist" accusations aside, the Bush Administration sandbagged the investigation into the crimes of 911 for 441 days (FOUR HUNDRED AND FORTY ONE DAYS, FOLKS) before grudgingly allowing first "Dr. Death" Henry Kissinger to lead a tightly controlled Presidential Commission (Kissinger was removed when his Saudi financial connections were exposed by the 'Jersey Girls'). They gave a budget of a tiny fraction of the money to spent in an effort to impeach Clinton for getting lipstick on his cigar in the Oral Orifice. All the evidence was scraped up, put on barges, shipped to China and melted down. Cheney and Bush would only testify together with their own hand-picked loyalists present - without being recorded and not under oath. The final published 911 Commission Official Report was edited word-by-word by the Bush Administration.

No explanation for the 'pulling' of Tower Seven.

Cheney's timeline of going to the bunker in time to order a NORAD 'stand down' was included rather than conflicting eye witness reports from Norman Mineta and others, which were omitted entirely.

People, if you want to be informed about what we are not being told and what they are hiding watch the two films on YouTube or GoogleVideo or contact 911Truth for copies:

911 Press for Truth
911 Mysteries: Demolitions

Then let's talk about truth.

Mikael Rudolph
www.ImpeachforPeace.org

» RE: ALL I WANT IS THE TRUTH!!! Posted by: Joshua Holland
One Piece of pure, undeniable evidence for all
Posted by: Raj on Feb 2, 2007 11:57 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think we miss many points about this whole 9/11 cover-up, and that is the people responsible are still at large, and we are here bickering amongst ourselves over "who done it". Whoever done it is real happy about that, no doubt.

Let's talk about "conspiracy theories" for a moment. Yes, they are several theories that are far out there, like "Dick Cheney flew those planes into the buildings and teleported out at the last minute". These unfortunately are also associated by many with those well educated, rational indivuduals who simply seek truth as part of the same group of thinking. What we don't realize is only a couple of "our" conspiracy theories need to be true, and the whole idea that there is a conspiracy is proven. Take for example the conspiracy behind ET's. Since 1947, there have been over 10,000 well documented cases worldwide of these types of encounters. And while many of them were probably false, only 1, yes ONLY 1 of those 10,000 cases needs to be true, and the entire theory is proven true. The same applies here, only a couple of our theories need to stick, then the fact that there is a conspiracy or coverup is proven true.

With that said, I would like to direct everyone to this article published by the San Francisco Chronicle, as well as several other mainstream outlets. Unfortunately this system is complaing my link is too long to list, so you'll have to kind of copy and paste both pieces without the space, or run a search on your own:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi? file=/c/a/2001/09/12/MN229389.DTL

Basically our mayor at the time, Willie Brown was tipped off not to fly on 9/11. I actually know very close and personal firends of Willie Brown. At my request, they prodded him about how he was tipped off, and his reply to them is what he told the papers, "Someone on my security team alerted my not to fly that day" And he leaves it at that. No one questions him further on the matter, ever.

Now take this in for a moment, and please think about it. The mayor of a Major US city is told by someone not to fly. I doubt this someone was a Muslim terrorist. Meaning people outside of the group of hijackers knew of the plot. Willie Brown probably didn't know the entire plot, information is alwasy on a need to know basis, and all he needed to know was not to fly, nothing more. But he does know who told him not to fly, and he won't give them up. Someone within our goverment knew about this, and let it happen. The fact the he knew about it just doens't sit well with me. If he knew, others knew, and they indeed conspired with the hijackers to do the deed, so yes folks there is a real conspiracy here, which is why we need to find the real truth, no matter how much it hurts. Sides, the truth would only set us free right? We can start by finding out who tipped of Willie Brown, and work our way up the chain. It's doable, but the question is do we really want to do it? And remember, this is only 1 piece of evidence, there is a whole lot more. But I only need one or two to be right :)

» pure, undeniable evidence? Posted by: fanny666
» But not evidence of an inside job Posted by: Joshua Holland
go to 911proof.com
Posted by: johnpotash on Feb 2, 2007 12:00 PM   
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Sander Hicks makes some good points, but I think bigger answers come from this website, 911proof.com It includes many mainstream sources for eyewitness accounts on subjects such as explosives bringing down the towers in a demolition. many might have already seen the PBS clip of Larry Silverstein, wtc owner, accidentally admitting that he decided to "pull" wtc7, the industry term for take it down by demolition. many firefighters and other say they saw/heard the explosives that took down the twin towers. I think we need to stop losing our own objectiveness and giving them over to columnist "experts" such as alexander cockburn and publisher matt rothschild. while they do some good reporting, and i don't expect to agree with them on everything, cockburn's insistence on the single-bullet JFK theory and cover-up of 911 are too large to trust him now. and rothschild may come from too big of money as he defends the bush admin on this big issue while attacking him on the smaller ones. My own common sense says, nothing should bring down buildings like, what both peter jennings and dan rather said, looked just like a "demolition," except an actual demolition. an engineer cites how the simple falling object law of physics shows that a pool ball or bowling ball falling in a vacuum would take just over 9 seconds to hit earth. newton's laws of physics say that despite the weight, anything else should take the same amount of time. we all saw the top floor hit the ground in 10 seconds or less, despite having steel and concrete under it. both sides can use engineers to give opposing views but common sense says it must have been a demoliton, which only the bush admin could have set up.

» Go to 911myths.com Posted by: fanny666
Jihad didn't die out between the 10th century and 1979
Posted by: Catherine Martell on Feb 2, 2007 1:14 PM   
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The Wahhabi sect is just one of many that promoted the idea of militant jihad during the 19th and 20th centuries. For instance, jihad was a rallying cry of the Indian rebellion against British rule in 1857-58. Charles Allen's book last year focused extensively on this.

The Wahhabis were a big influence on the Muslim Brotherhood, so it is surprising that neither you nor The Economist seems to have picked up on them. There are many problems in Afghanistan for which you could blame American policy since 1979, but the revival of the concept of jihad is not one of them.

WTC Task Force Member weighs in: Relevance of ALTERNET reaffirmed
Posted by: jeanniedean on Feb 2, 2007 1:17 PM   
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Finally! I had almost completely sworn off Alternet as an internet news source; not just because it completely ignored the questions being raised about the glaring inconsistancies behind the official 9/11 story as it was reported, but because it also seemed to be actively DISCREDITING the work of so many brave journalists/ statisticians/ scholars/ physics prof's/ military personnel/ etc, on the front lines of exposing this horrifying thresh hold issue. ALTERNET seemed in danger of becoming the the very gate-keeper establishment it was founded to oppose, and provide said respite from.

However, I have read every response in this thread today and I am pleased to see the flood-range of responses posted, here. I would hope that discussions like this one, loaded with information so vital to our national dialogue, content so crucial to our collective understanding, would be all over the internet in progressive forums-especially now- at this dangerous, critical hour.

I urge ALTERNET to continue to post articles from Mr. Hicks and the other experts, whistle-blowers, and citizen journalists who have sacrificed their reputations, and in some cases their livelihood, just to enlighten the rest of us to the essential FACTS of what happened that day. Theirs is a very lonely, uphill battle. No one wants to hear what lies they have too-readily consumed; it's beyond the realm of what most of us can accept.

Please do continue to follow this, ALTERNET. So what if you don't buy every theory posed? So what if we don't agree on every aspect of this massive deception? That should NOT exclude or preclude our RIGHT to be more informed regarding this heinous genocide. You don't have to be a "conspiratorial theory" ringer to know that we have been lied to. And that, dear editors of this fine forum, is what we count on you to do.

Janine Winter
NYC World Trade Center Emergency Task Force
Sept. 17, 2001-Jan. 2, 2002

Griffin's book is a good place to start
Posted by: Shakti on Feb 2, 2007 1:36 PM   
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I've read Griffin's book and visited the various websites and had on-line discussions and I've come to the conclusion that there is no way the official story could be true. What actually happened, I don't know, but I'm very sure that the government's story is b.s.

I would love to see someone do an interview with Colleen Rowley (FBI), Sibel Edmonds (FBI) and Valerie Plame (CIA). It's all related and they know a lot. Together, their stories would probably paint a pretty comprehensive picture.

Blatant Facts
Posted by: rwa on Feb 2, 2007 1:40 PM   
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The U.S Congress Democratic Caucus president would be Israeli military intelligence officer

The new democratic group (Democratic Caucus) in the U.S Congress House of Representatives has elected Rahm Emanuel as a new chairman. Former professional dancer, Mr Emanuel was Bill Clinton’s presidential campaign treasurer, then his political director in the White House.
He was one of the main protagonists of the Free Trade Area of the Americas Agreement and would have played a role in Wye River negotiations on the Middle East. He inspired Josh complex character in the famous television series The West Wing. Today, he is Chicago (Illinois) elected representative.

Of Israeli origin, he obtained the U.S. nationality at the age of 18. As a volunteer engaged during Desert Storm operation ( 1991 ), Rahm Emanuel (then 32-years old) has served for Israel defence against a possible Iraqi attack.
Accused afterwards of being a Tsahal officer and of being subjected to a double allegiance, Mr Emanuel pointed out that he had not served in the uniform. In fact, according to our information, he would be a member of Amal, Tsahal’s military intelligence service.

Rahm Emanuel is Benyamin Auerbach’s son. On September 17, 1948, Mr. Auerbach took part, under Yitzhak Shamir’s authority, in the attack that caused the death of both the Swedish count Folke Bernadotte (UNO mediator in Palestine) and the French colonel André Sérot (a United Nations military observer).
It is this double assassination which put an end to the binational State project in Palestine and which transformed the Israel State nature itself in comparison with what had been decided by the UN Organisation.

Rahm Emanuel’s younger brother, Ari Emanuel, is Michael Moore’s agent in Hollywood. He encouraged this latter to point out the supposed responsibility of Saudi Arabia in September 11 attacks in his famous film Fahrenheit 911, the showing of which was ensured by the Democratic Party.

http://www.voltairenet.org/article144314.html

That Pentagon "Plane."
Posted by: DennisDalrymple on Feb 2, 2007 2:00 PM   
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While I'm not sure I believe everything from the 9/11 Truth Movement (but certainly they're far more reliable than anything coming from the US government), this much I do know: Last May, 2006, the Pentagon released a video purported to be the hijacked plane crashing into military headquarters on 9/11. What was shown, however, was a nose cone of an unidentified flying object too small to be attached to a 757 and a fireball and smoke arising out the building. Nothing else. There is no valid proof that a plane actually hit the Pentagon.

» RE: That Pentagon "Plane." Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: That Pentagon "Plane." Holland Posted by: Joshua Holland
Reply to Mr. Hicks
Posted by: Ranillon on Feb 2, 2007 2:11 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In a reply above Mr. Hicks asked me to comment on the “evidence” he lists in his piece example-by-example so here I go. Starting off after the line “Consider some of the pieces” and commenting on each paragraph in turn (I will not repeat them in my post for the sake of saving space:

1) So? I have no doubt that any leader of any country spends much of his time talking to diplomats and officials from other nations about a multitude of possible things. That is to be expected as a normal part of country-to-country. And, no doubt, President Musharraf has talked to all sorts of people from the United States. But, again, so what? Do you have transcripts of their meetings where they planned out 9/11? The mere fact that people get together to talk about something is just evidence that they got together to talk about something, nothing more. In other words, you are trying to make a causal link where none exists – at least given the present evidence.
2) Your argument here is ultimately based on a single report from an India newspaper accusing Ahmed of making the transfer (through an intermediary). This has not been verified nor is the evidence supporting this claim particularly impressive (quite the opposite). Basically, you are making a mountain out of a molehill – e.g. you are using “Might be true” hearsay as if it was immutable fact.
3) Your claim is only compelling if you take all your assumptions based on questionable data as accurate – and, as the link above shows, there is no good reason for that. Sure, it “might” be true, but it “might” be true that 9/11 is the work of space aliens. If you are going to make such serious claims you need serious evidence that goes beyond “mights” based on disputed single sources. If you want to be convincing give us transcripts of meetings or eye-witnesses – that’s real evidence. As for your note about aid the US routinely gives aid to other countries. There is nothing unusual about it giving Pakistan aid (especially given we needed it help to invade Afghanistan) or any evident reason that in this case it should be considered “hush” money.
4) Mr. Graham may very well be right in his claim, but he is talking about funding in the abstract – e.g. maybe it happened. Mere supposition is not evidence.
5) You are offering us expired information that a number of sources have concluded never happened. And, as I said before, you are offering data from a single source. It needs to be verified before it can be taken seriously.
6) For the first part of the paragraph, see 5 above. For the second half – By your only admission Mr. Lance’s book does not state that the US directly protected or funded Atta’s efforts. He just argues that Able Danger found links between various terrorist cells. In other words, you present it as evidence for your claims, but all this amounts to is character assassination along the lines of “they were incompetent people supposedly trying to cover up something so I must be right in my claims.” But, even if they really were morons trying to hide some important truth that’s not evidence they tried to cover up what you’re talking about. Again, were is the solid evidence?
7) This is just more character assassination based on the self-serving premise that the sources (supposedly) supporting your claims are “careful” and “serious” while your detractors can only pick on “wacky theories”. I don’t care if the people involved are saints or sinners – give me evidence, not scorn and innuendo. It’s solid facts that matter.
8) This is just a preamble to your next series of arguments so let me skip ahead.
(more below)

» RE: eply to Mr. Hicks Posted by: Ranillon
» Pap @ the Denial State Posted by: Hal
» RE: Pap @ the Denial State Posted by: Ranillon
» RE: Pap @ the Denial State Posted by: Ranillon
» RE: Pap @ the Denial State Posted by: Cincy911Truth
» RE: Pap @ the Denial State Posted by: Ranillon
» You must be a government shill... Posted by: Cincy911Truth
» RE: You must be a government shill... Posted by: Cincy911Truth
» RE: You must be a government shill... Posted by: Cincy911Truth
» RE: Pap @ the Denial State Posted by: jeanniedean
» RE: Pap @ the Denial State Posted by: Ranillon
» RE: Pap @ the Denial State Posted by: jeanniedean
» check out these photos: Posted by: Don Garb
» RE: check out these photos: Posted by: Ranillon
A political bombshell from Zbigniew Brzezinski By Barry Grey
Posted by: rwa on Feb 2, 2007 2:45 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...Most stunning and disturbing was his description of a “plausible scenario for a military collision with Iran.” It would, he suggested, involve “Iraqi failure to meet the benchmarks, followed by accusations of Iranian responsibility for the failure, then by some provocation in Iraq or a terrorist act in the US blamed on Iran, culminating in a ‘defensive’ US military action against Iran that plunges a lonely America into a spreading and deepening quagmire eventually ranging across Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan and Pakistan.” [Emphasis added].

This was an unmistakable warning to the US Congress, replete with quotation marks to discount the “defensive” nature of such military action, that the Bush administration is seeking a pretext for an attack on Iran. Although he did not explicitly say so, Brzezinski came close to suggesting that the White House was capable of manufacturing a provocation—including a possible terrorist attack within the US—to provide the casus belli for war.

That a man such as Brzezinski, with decades of experience in the top echelons of the US foreign policy establishment, a man who has the closest links to the military and to intelligence agencies, should issue such a warning at an open hearing of the US Senate has immense and grave significance.

At another point Brzezinski remarked on the conspiratorial methods of the Bush administration and all but described it as a cabal. “I am perplexed,” he said, “by the fact that major strategic decisions seem to be made within a very narrow circle of individuals—just a few, probably a handful, perhaps not more than the fingers on my hand. And these are the individuals, all of whom but one, who made the original decision to go to war, and used the original justifications to go to war.”

None of the senators in attendance addressed themselves to the stark warning from Brzezinski. The Democrats in particular, flaccid, complacent and complicit in the war conspiracies of the Bush administration, said nothing about the danger of a provocation spelled out by the witness.

Following the hearing, this reporter asked Brzezinski directly if he was suggesting that the source of a possible provocation might be the US government itself. The former national security adviser was evasive.

The following exchange took place:

Q: Dr. Brzezinski, who do you think would be carrying out this possible provocation?

A: I have no idea. As I said, these things can never be predicted. It can be spontaneous.

Q: Are you suggesting there is a possibility it could originate within the US government itself?

A: I’m saying the whole situation can get out of hand and all sorts of calculations can produce a circumstance that would be very difficult to trace.

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2007/feb2007/brze-f02_prn.shtml

» A Bombshell, INDEED...FOLLOW the Z-BIG. Posted by: sander_*_hicks
IT ONLY TOOK ALTERNET 5 YEARS TO GET A CLUE...
Posted by: johndoraemi on Feb 2, 2007 2:53 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
about September 11th, and the phony "war on terror."

I'm pleased that our constant hammering on your pathetic disinformation has embarassed the publication into covering the other side.

Now you need to start publishing more outspoken critics, instead of the usual circle-jerk faux-opposition twats.

Thanks to Sander Hicks for breaking through here and smacking some sense into the numb and the deluded.

John Doraemi publishes Crimes of the State
http://crimesofthestate.blogspot.com/

» More rhetoric Posted by: fanny666
» Crass ignorance. Posted by: johndoraemi
Zionist propaganda
Posted by: johndoraemi on Feb 2, 2007 3:00 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
" The Palestinians and their allies told the USA after 40 years! 'enough is enough' and sent two planes ... "

The Mossad agents arrested on 9-11, after police were called because they were celebrating the World Trade Center destruction too overtly, "with cries of joy and mockery", ALSO tried to blame the event on "Palestinians."

THE ISRAELI ART STUDENTS AND MOVERS STORY
By Wayne Madsen

John Doraemi publishes Crimes of the State
http://crimesofthestate.blogspot.com/

Chomsky on 9-11 "Bush did it" conspiracies and conspiracy enthusiasts
Posted by: fanny666 on Feb 2, 2007 3:02 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
» Chomsky is untrustworthy. Posted by: johndoraemi
From A Pilot's Perspective . . .
Posted by: JCR on Feb 2, 2007 3:16 PM   
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First let me preface this by giving a few details regarding my professional background. I am a fixed and rotary wing pilot. I am primarily a Heli pilot now, but in a previous life I was a fixed wing pilot with a couple thousand hours PIC (pilot in command) experience. I have actually piloted the jet planes used on 9/11 and still feel completely at home in the cockpit of a large, commercial jet. I have not arrived at any concrete conclusions as to what happened on that fateful day in September, but I can commment with a fair to good degree of certainty about what goes into flying jumbos.

First of all, several of the aerial manoeuvres undertaken that day require a level of skill that I probably barely possess and that is with years of flying under my belt. Flying mere feet off the ground at those speeds while maintaining composure enough to pilot the plain into the side of the Petagon ranks up there with the exploits of Chuck Yeager and the Red Baron. I understand that these boys weren't taking off or landing, which are admittedly the most difficult aspects, but they did bank those jets into the WTC with amazing efficiency.

I am still unsure what happened that day and I will admit that it is conceivable that those boys pulled it off but given that a couple of them could barely perform a solo flight in a Cessna makes it exceedingly hard to believe that they could park a jumbo jet in the side of the Pentagon. Again, they may have pulled it off but I suspect there was more flight training than we have been lead to believe.

9/11, the legal standard we should use against the gov't
Posted by: Reader11722 on Feb 2, 2007 3:49 PM   
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There's only one important question concerning the attacks, did the US gov't allow/participate in 9/11?

The answer to that query would explain the illegal wire-taps, suspension of habeas corpus, banning of books like "America Deceived" from Amazon, detaining of dissenters in fences miles away from events, and multiple wars based on lies.

How can the gov't be innocent in 9/11 when we have caught it lying so many times (WACO, Ruby Ridge, no WMDs, USS Liberty, Operation Northwoods, Gulf of Tonkin, Pearl Harbor, ETC.)?

In law, if you determine a person lies ONCE during his testimony, it can be assumed that he lied in the remainder of his testimony. How come we do not hold the gov't to the same standard as it holds us to?

Final link (before Google Books bends to pressure and drops the title):
America Deceived (book)

Hank
Posted by: hankgeorge on Feb 2, 2007 4:05 PM   
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In the wake of 9/11, German military and civilian pilots - considered experts by any criteria - were interviewed regarding the piloting of the planes that hit the WTC and the "757" that made that too-small hole in the Pentagon. They said that the maneuvers involved in all 3 crashes were beyond the skillsets of most commercial pilots and military pilots. They cast powerful doubt on the official conspiracy theory. This was not covered in the US mainstream media...but, then, that is hardly anything new.

I had no idea there was a 9/11 Truth Movement until, by chance, I spotted THE NEW PEARL HARBOR on the shelf of a so-so bookstore on Oxford Street in London...bored, browsing, there on business. I saw the impressive credentials of the author David Ray Griffin, bought it and went back to my room to take a closer look. I never stopped reading until I was almost done...and nodding off, sans dinner. I was jolted. Since then, I have been a student of 9/11. Reading everything, sizing up the arguments of the "conspiracy theorists" (some of whom are strictly "sci-fi" on a good day) and trying to be objective (who WANTS to believe what the evidence plainly tells us?). I have come to the conclusion, subject to more evidence either way of course, that at the very least, our government knew it was coming and made sure it worked. But there is plenty of sobering evidence to suggest that rogue elements did much more than just sit back and watch. The use of explosives in the downing of the WTC is essentially beyond dispute. The conduct of Cheney in the command center at the Pentagon - as reported by Norman Mineta of the FAA who was present - must be explained to the American people. One can only conclude from what Mineta said that Cheney did nothing to stop the inbound aircraft. The reports from the mayor of Shansville and the local coroner, who observed the scene where flight 93 "crashed" cast severe doubt on the official story. It would be illuminating if these two fellows could testify as to what they plainly saw, which is in sharp contrast to the official story. I have no doubt that 93 was shot down and I doubt the Cubans did it! There is just too much circumstantial evidence that the true story of 9/11 involved rogue elements embedded in the government. Who they are, I do not know. But I would suggest that the American people have a right to an honest 9/11 Commission not controlled in terms of what was discussed by a Bushite. The Scholars for 9/11 Truth have challenged the government experts to a debate. They know they will win as regards WTC and the Pentagon. Those who decided the official story is true with bogus scientific evidence have refused to debate. One wonders why. I think it is the duty of every American to study 9/11 from all perspectives. After all, this event has cost us...and the world...more grief than any event since WWII. Thank God for the Internet. Without it, none of the work done by these devoted experts would have had any chance of impacting such a wide segment of our society. In the end, there will be some staggering revelations about 9/11. I just wonder if most of us will live long enough to be able to see justice done.

» RE: Hank Posted by: prairiedog
Suspicions
Posted by: willymack on Feb 2, 2007 4:11 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If there are any suspicions on the part of the American people about the veracity of the government's 9/11 Commission Report, is seems to me that the government would go out of its way to prove its case. Since this is not the case, and that the "report" is an insulting collage of obfuscations, omissions, and outright lies, it doesn't tale a genius to infer that the report is an attempt to cover something up. Don't forget,this "report" is a result of a bunch of bushie stooges convened only with extreme reluctance, and only after continuous presure from the "Jersey Girls"-wives of 9/11 victims. Given the compisition of the 9/11 panel, the report was pretty much a foregone conclusion or whitewash of Prezdint Infallible and the gang. Even if one ignores the physical and scientific evidence, as well as the destruction or removal of materials, BEFORE a proper FEMA investigation could be conducted-in violation of the law-the 9/11 commission report is a badly written piece of trash and indigative of a phony investigation.

Be honest...
Posted by: Gold9472 on Feb 2, 2007 4:14 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
With your heart, and with your mind, and take the time to read this full entry on 911blogger.com.

What Qualifies As Suspicious Behavior?

Just because it's scary, doesn't mean it's not true.

"High Treason at the White House"
Posted by: ErHoff on Feb 2, 2007 5:01 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"High Treason at the White House"
A headline to be covered not covered up. As the pressure is on the culprits with the Libby trial, I, and the country should expect the Democrats to come to life. These are the same culprits that planned and attacked the World Trade Center on 9-11 to start the war going. Aren't the lives of 3,000 New Yorkers worthy of at least a proper investigation? The Philip Zelikow 9-11 whitewash commission was sheer propaganda, yet too many Democrats were blinded by it.

Aren't the lives of thousands of wounded and killed soldiers, and hundreds of thousands of murdered Iraqis worthy of IMPEACHMENT?

Isn't it a high crime, isn't it HIGH TREASON for the Executive branch to expose top secrets putting the lives of our officers and their operatives in clear and present danger, at a time of war?

Are America's House and Senate collectively incompetent? America needs Congress to deliver a SHORT SHARP SHOCK, no long drawn out lengthy trial and debates. Immediate impeachment of Cheney and Bush, and Gitmo their asses, they are enemy combatants that need no Habeas Corpus!

Let's Look at this with Perspective
Posted by: jerrygerber on Feb 2, 2007 5:08 PM   
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If the majority of Americans take over three years of war based on lies and the financial ambitions of materialistic men to understand the chaos and defeat these warmongers are causing our nation, not to mention the hundreds of thousands of deaths of innocent non-combatants, human beings with hopes and anxieties and families, then why would anyone expect the common citizen to grasp the dark side of 911? Americans are naive, and evil depends upon this emotional attitude. I wish the 911 movement the best, I hope they succed, which to my mind means I hope they can have their day(s) in court and that the law be fairly applied against all living perpetrators of 911's heinous crime against humanity. But I don't think the movement can succeed unless a cultural shock so deep occurs that will wake people up and demand a government fully accountable to a new, educated, aware and globally-conscious type of American. The long-term issue is government itself, we must be continually and perpetually be debating the advancing and adjusting role of government in a world where evolution is definitely happening: biologically, culturally and individually. This is the way God planned it, or as the aetheists would say, "stuff happens".

Jerry Gerber
San Francisco

Tower 7
Posted by: JackieHK on Feb 2, 2007 5:48 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Was Tower 7 the closest to 1 and 2? Were other buildings closer?

That one really amazes me.

Trolls on parade...
Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Feb 2, 2007 6:19 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Someone want to tell me why only one post (mine) mentions the anthrax attacks? Collective amnesia is no accident... This topic really draws the flies, doesn't it?

Public relations, tar-and-feather, straw man, misdirection, polluting the stream, black propaganda, disinformation... I thought it was illegal for the US government to subject its own citizens to such treatment - but then, maybe it's the Saudis trying to freshen up their image, what?

HICKS URGES PHONE CALL TO DA OFFICE
Posted by: sander_*_hicks on Feb 2, 2007 7:26 PM   
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Hi Gang, Sander Hicks here again, thanks for all your posts about my article. This is a lively forum and I really appreciate the fact that I've got so many comments (4x average for other stories, it seems!)

If you're overwhelmed at the task in front of us, don't despair. We've got a huge momentum going. This movement is cross-spectrum politics, and it appeals to basic American instincts. It's the people versus the powerful, and we the people have the truth on our side.

On January 9th, I sent a professional letter and supporting documents into the DA of Brooklyn, District Attorney Charles Hynes. I had met him this past fall at an interfaith event promoting tolerance and education, as a way to combat hate crimes. I was a big fan of his already, since he prosecuted the mafia-connected/CIA-connected FBI goon Lin DeVecchio. We had a rapport.

So, the letter I sent him three weeks ago said this:
http://voxpopnet.net/LettertoDAHynes.pdf

I included my book, and copies of my exclusive report on Atta-pal Wolfgang Bohringer, recently published in Vox Pop's newspaper, New York Megaphone.

It's only at the local governmental level that the people have any hope to redress grievances with an out of control Federal war state. If you agree with this call, then I invite you to help me out.

A phone call can be a kind of vote. I want you to call Orlando Rivera, he's my contact at the DA's Public Information Office. Urge him to get DA Hynes, or one of the Assistant DAs CCed on the proposal, to issue a formal response.

Let's all urge the DA to assemble an independent advisory panel of experts on the topic. Urge hearings. Urge an internal inquiry. Put it in your own words and mention what you want to mention, but do it. Call Orlando Rivera at 1.718.250.2000. He's a nice young guy. He took me seriously. This is a matter of national security. Never forget that. This is real national security, folks, the terrorists are in the White House.

But there IS hope. We saw, in the early 90's that when the Feds could not and would not investigate CIA bank BCCI, the local DA in Manhattan, undertook a coureagous and historical prosecution. It's time for the Brooklyn DA to follow suit.

Orlando usually picks up the phone, here:
Public Information Kings County District Attorney's Office 1.718.250.2000

Thanks, let me know if you volunteer to do this, to make a call for the cause. Right now it's 10:08 on Friday night. If you're committed to calling on Monday, 9 AM, EST, then say so, post it here, and leave your email, too, and I'll send you a reminder to do it, Monday AM.

And if they won't assemble hearings, then I say WE organize hearings, right outside the Brooklyn Supreme Court building where the DA has his office.

OK? Who's with me?

Keep up the love, keep up the struggle. The 9/11 Truth Movement is turning heads and changing minds!

S

» Kudos Janine... Posted by: Hal
» RE: Kudos Janine... Posted by: jeanniedean
Finally...a good article!
Posted by: TWilliams on Feb 2, 2007 9:15 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I agree with this article and I support 100% that the government must held accountable.

For all of the doubters here is one questions I want you to answer: how come NOT ONE of the videos of the plane that crashed into the Pentagon has been released?

It has been years since it happened. The government has three tapes of the incident and they seized them moments after the crash. Why? Furthermore, why have they not released the tapes? What are they trying to hide? Explain that!

» my favorite coverup .. Posted by: Don Garb
This is where I stopped reading
Posted by: ShoShenQ on Feb 2, 2007 9:55 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"In fact, according to a Special Report in The Economist, the whole notion of "jihad" died out in Islam in the 10th century until "it was revived, with American encouragement, to fire an international pan-Islamic movement after the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan in 1979."

Wrong, wrong and wrong. Jihad is part of islamic duty and was kept very alive thru the ages, Algerian freedom fighters referred to themselves as jihadists or mujahedeen and I'm talking about 1954-1962 well before the kremlin led invasion of Afghanistan.

Plus saying that the bombing of 9/11 is esoteric is...ridiculous, at best.

Man the writing level at alternet is really going down, first Matthew ROTHSCHILD and now this...

» You do have a point Posted by: sander_*_hicks
Thanks
Posted by: mftorso on Feb 3, 2007 6:41 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Many thanks to Sanders Hicks for this cogent and accurate history. There should be more of this type of work at Alternet.
Well done Mr. Hicks!

mf

why they got away with it
Posted by: hennep on Feb 3, 2007 8:10 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If you look at the masses of people that beleive that the world was created in 7 days some 6500 years ago its no wonder that those same people would beleive the 9/11 cover up. Criticial thinking by the majority of Americans will never happen, they are to engrossed in running away from the truth, they are brainwashed into stupidity.
Also as the CIA/FBI/HS are logging all the IP adresses of every poster here and noting what they say, thanks to some US/Israeli technology, if the shit hits the fan we all will be the first put up against the proverbial wall. Chilling thought!
Yes Bushco made it happen, its as plain on the nose on our faces, 15 mins is the response time for intercept by fighter aircraft (look at how many times it has been used in the months before 9/11), it has been for a very long time, Cheney knew what was happening and prevented the usual airfore response.
It will take a grass root civil disobedence and revolt of the federal armed forces and national guards to get back goverment by the people for the people, but they are all to busy watching American idol to care.

» RE: why they got away with it Posted by: channing
bush = terrorist
Posted by: aaronruly on Feb 3, 2007 1:08 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
bush brought down the towers. it was all america. usd as an xcuse to invade afghanistan, iraq, n now iran, so that america become more powerful, and middle east becomes less powerful. america is a racist, money and power hungry nation wich should not be supported by any one on this planet!

A Big Fat Diss for Joshua Holland (and Matt Taibbi as well)
Posted by: stonehinge on Feb 3, 2007 5:08 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Sorry, Joshua, but you lose here...big time. Referencing your comment above, tagging a witness for lying is the best possible way to discredit everything else they have said up to that point and everything they will say in the future. And yes, it is a point of law. Have you failed to read the charges brought against Scooter Libby? Are you at all familiar with the words "perjury" and "obstruction of justice?" Furthermore, as I recall, it wasn't the fact that Clinton had a nice "bj" that got him in deep water. It was lying about it, right? Remember that one now? Hmmm???

Let's get a bit more personal here -- in my opinion, your skeevy efforts to discredit the heroic contributions of the 9-11 researchers is a despicable abuse of your status as editor of this blog. As for Taibbi's work, it's amusing to read it, but I often wonder if all that effort is expended simply to find yet another place to insert the "eff" word. LMFAO!!!!

To put all this in perspective, let's go with this:

Failure to recognize that 9-11 was an inside job is a sure sign of mental illness.

» Don't come unhinged Posted by: famouspipeliner
» RE: Stonehinge makes an important point Posted by: famouspipeliner
» Don’t Take the Bait Posted by: Hal
» RE: Don’t Take the Bait Posted by: Joshua Holland
» Deal With the Issue Posted by: Hal
» RE: Deal With the Issue Posted by: Joshua Holland
» War Pimp Exposed Posted by: rwa
» Thanks, brother ... Posted by: Joshua Holland
Seismic data may be smoking gun
Posted by: rockpicker on Feb 3, 2007 8:20 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Unless the records were falsified, the shock data recorded by Columbia University equipment indicate a huge mass deficit occurred during the "collapse."

Dr. Judy Woods calculates a probable Richter scale reading of around 4.9, but seismic records indicate only 2.1 and 2.3 for the twin towers.

What happened to the rest of the mass?

janedoe0911.tripod.com

» RE: Seismic data may be smoking gun Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Seismic data may be smoking gun Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Seismic data may be smoking gun Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Seismic data may be smoking gun Posted by: Joshua Holland
chomski, holland, and other loose ends of the progressive movement
Posted by: channing on Feb 4, 2007 2:32 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What is it about 911 that makes it so hard to swallow, even for relatively critical thinkers?

It's no loose goose to point out the lie is too big, and the crimes are too many to be confined to a single sentence or argument, and THIS is precisely how all the noise that is being made of this is such a low-level rumble, barely audible to the public.

Can we accomplish anything together? I sure think so.

My "worst-case fantasy" of proof would be to pool $600,000,000.00 from around the world, (there are 600,000,000 people who believe we need to truly investigate this, willing to donate $1.00) with a 757 loaded at high speed into our new replica wtc xxx... equations do the same job, but the public has been bent to disbelieve them... just watch the buildings survive, as they did on 911, 'till they were blown away that is.

My "fairy-tale case fantasy" requires that we organize a citizen-court; We the People vs. United States of America, forcing the declassification of all information belonging to the People. I know this is the supposed role of congress, "trial-by-process", however, today it is ever clearer that congress has lost its bearings at the same time as the judicial and executive branches. A citizen-trial, conducted publicly, and combining the diverse interests of the aggrieved could easily supplement the legislative, judicial and executive processes, and thereby force transparency upon the government as restoration of empowerment of the People in a tranquil union once again. This would cost far less than the "worst-case" accident-reconstruction proof... and the transparent truth will set us free.

I know these ideas are 'out there', but I also know all the resources required to sustain our planet are out there, can we come to some common ground on these issues?

Reality Check
Posted by: gdonald on Feb 4, 2007 6:56 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Anyone who still thinks that the truth of 9-11-01 will ever reach a court room, or be acknowledged in the Halls of Congress is simply not living in reality. The Bureaucrats and members of Congress have the 9-11 truth groups busy chasing their tales. These groups are by now so infiltrated with government provocatures and spies that everything you do will be filled with roadblocks, strife, infighting, or any other method needed to keep these groups busy spinning their wheels.

That is not to say that I don't agree with much of what these groups have written or talked about. In fact my years of research have led me to conclude it was an inside job. Mike Rupperts work has also without a doubt convinced me and nearly everyone on my e-mail list that 9-11-01 was most definitely facilitated by the Bush administration.

However, having said that, let us be realists. The United States government has been at war with its own citizens since the Civil War and most certainly since the early 1900's. The United States was then a Constitutional Republic where the rule of law was the limiting factor on government power. That changed through 14th, 16th, 17th ammendments. From that time forward the centralization of power in the Federal Government was to be our undoing. The state and local governments have become powerless. The Congress became elected by the mob and the rule of law ceased.

The fact that no 9-11-01 truths will ever reach the courts or the Congress for impreachment is really the fault of we the people. You see, we the people are greedy now. We want to elect politicians who will give us our fair share of the treasury. We the people have had decades of training in this addiction to federal bribes via welfare, social security, free food, low cost hosuing and every other scam. This fair share is the bribery that facilitates our Congress from ever allowing the truth to be officially recognized. The truth would collapse the world's faith in the US. Economies would collapse. Our economy would also go down. The politicians are never going to let that happen at least not until they are finished raping the country.

The hope of the 9-11 truth movements rests with we the people and quite frankly the masses are mostly lazy, ignorant sheople and they want it that way. Their ignorance allows them to work and play and believe that all is okay. The ignorant have no concerns for the truth and never will. The ignorant stand in lines screaming for their fare share and at election time they vote for the poltician who promises to keep their addictions going. Until the masses of sheople decide to get on board and demand justice, justice may not come.

The sheople will go right on doing what they have always done until one day they will wake up and discover that the wolves have come for them.

Lone Voices Never Heard
Posted by: tomi01uk on Feb 4, 2007 1:43 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Here is just one lone voice out there. I'm one of hundreds or thousands of people who have all some little information to tell. I was told by the family of a senior position architect at Bechtel here in the UK that they had received contracts to build buildings in Bagdad from Bush admin before 911 even happened. All this was already in the pipe works. So, I say this, the astonished family of the architect who worked on the projects say this. So many more lone voices out there. There is so much that so many people know, don't even imagine that it can't happen because too many people would "know". That is rubbish.

9/11 Truth As Subtext
Posted by: redbrownandblueparty on Feb 4, 2007 4:02 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What I like about the 9/11 truth movement is that it's within the larger context of truth. It fascinates me that otherwise intelligent people have a blind spot when it comes to accepting self-evident truths, as our founders stated.

Reading Michael Ruppert's "Crossing the Rubicon" and spending a couple of hours on the net convinced me of the government's complicity. Recent DVD's like "Loose Change" and "9/11 Mysteries" are utterly convincing to me, and yet...

...someone Like Alexander Cockburn from the Nation put down the 9/11 truth movement as a paranoid conspiracy, and it seems that Alternet has been very slow in seeing the light. If these progressive agencies don't get truth, how much hope is there that any sizable media will? To Nation's credit, in the last issue, they ran many letters to the editor in rebuttal. They had not received such a response since Kennedy was killed.

I think Dante would put the liberal media in a deeper part of hell than the Bushites. The Bushies and their co-conspirators know the truth but simply reverse it and spin the big lie. The liberal media and our elected representatives either know the truth or should know it but refuse to touch it with a ten foot pole. The Bushes at least have some twisted form of honesty.

Why? Probably money, because they would either be fired or booted out of office by the sheeple or their herdsmen for tresspassing on the taboo of patriotism. Or fear, fear of facing fear.

This thread is instructive. It appears to have the biggest number of comments. How it compares to other big stories of the past would be interesting to know. It shows that knowing truth is a fundamental human interest and need.

9/11 is THE major symbol of our time, one that separates the sheeple from the people. The responses on this thread show where a person is in their consciousness of truth and how much light that consciousness can stand.

Most American sheeple would rather go to a church or civic steeple and listen to a soothing authority than think like We the People. Investigating truth is hard intellectual and emotional work. The enlightened founders were not couch potatoes...well, maybe Ben Franklin.

The truth hurts and the truth will set us free are a couple of truisms. No pain, no gain is another. Our so called leaders are like deer caught in the headlights of truth, or like cockroaches in that blinding flash of recognition. Most will bound back into the woods or scurry into the cracks.

It's OK. Our job is to keep shining the light of truth. Five years ago I was one of the deer. The net opened my eyes. Truth is a progressive concept. The higher you go, the more light you can stand and the more heat you can take.

I believe we were all at one time where the Bushes are now. According to the myth, the higher truth descended on a mountain and burned a bush to reveal itself. Again, according to the ancient story, the Babel towers came down because people couldn't communicate.

The Twin Towers came down for a similar reason. We the People have not been communicating with one voice to our tower builders that heaven is not in the skies but here on this earth, if we choose to make it so.

It's all right. Truth will out. It may be in Jerusalem or it may be in Armageddon...Dylan said something like that. Sorry about the preaching, but hey, somebody should have preached to the Babel babblers, too, like a lot of good it does. The builders of empire don't listen and the choir has heard it before but maybe it does the preacher some good.

ONE MORE TIME: Please Deal With the Issue (911 Cover-Up)
Posted by: Hal on Feb 4, 2007 4:26 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I thought I’d reprise a final exchange I had with J. Holland (editor of S. Hick’s subject piece) for anyone that might find it of interest. J. Holland may not speak for Alternet but it seems there is a group-think policy at work here.

RE: ONE MORE TIME: Please Deal With the Issue
[Report this comment] Posted by: Hal on Feb 4, 2007 4:05 PM

Another strawman cum red herring...

I never once brought up a case for an "inside job".

How’s this for English:

You are ducking the issue of a BLATANT 911 COVER-UP and REAL 911 INVESTIGATION for the 3rd time. You and Alternet have consistently ignored this issue.

WHY?


Firsthand evidence of cover-up has been given on this very thread (jeanniedean on Feb 3, 2007 1:11 PM). Janine’s co-workers are not dying over a “theory” or “faith-based” idea but a 911 cover-up FACT with vast ramifications.

Does this satisfy your “critical thinker” standard?

I won’t hold my breath for a real response. And (as I said further up this thread) I don’t discount your work with S. Hicks nor do I mean to single you out for some kind of lambaste. But you are a staffer at a resource that purports to reflect the “left” and its values in America.

How about providing some?

A little more on the seismic end of this
Posted by: rockpicker on Feb 4, 2007 5:47 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Careful data on the Kingdome demolition on March 26, 2000 are available. They allow us to estimate what the earthquake-equivalent impact of the Twin Tower destructions should have been. The Kingdome data are pre-9/11 and unlikely to be politically corrupted.

Bedrock conditions are important in affecting earthquake-equivalent (Richter) readings. If a structure is anchored directly to bedrock, its demolition will yield a higher Richter than if it were not anchored in bedrock. Why? Because if not anchored to bedrock, the energy released by demolition is dissipated via the earth "cushioning" materials. If anchored to bedrock, the released energy directly impacts bedrock, "pinging" the earth directly without any dampening, allowing the signal to carry better to recording stations. It would be like hitting your mattress with a hammer versus hitting a tuning fork. Which one carries a stronger signal to its base?

The Kingdome was not anchored in bedrock. If the Kingdome Richter value was a 2.3 reading transferred through soft material, a building with 30x the potential energy anchored directly in bedrock should have transferred a much higher signal to earthquake monitoring instruments. Amazingly, the south tower reading of 2.1 was lower than the Kingdome’s 2.3 despite the tower having 30x the potential energy and being anchored in bedrock. The difference in these Richter readings imply the Tower had only 60% of the potential energy of the Kingdome instead of the real range of 3,000%, an absurd implication. And the fact that the Towers were anchored in bedrock means that the energy release should have rung through to recording instruments loud and clear."

From Dr. Judy Woods' website.

Now, does that sound like tin hat babble?

"a man hears what he wants to hear, and disregards the rest..."

janedoe0911.tripod.com

Will AlterNet pursue the case for new 9/11 investigations?
Posted by: LeftWright on Feb 5, 2007 12:15 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Mr. Hicks has written a fair introduction to the political aspects of 9/11 and AlterNet has belatedly shown a modicum of courage in printing it. However, this article barely scratches the surface of the enormous amount of information regarding the events of 9/11/01.

Will AlterNet now allow follow-up articles written by David Ray Griffin, Dr. Steven Jones, Kevin Ryan, Jim Marrs, MIchel Chossudovsky, Nafeez Mosaddeq Ahmed, Webster Tarpley, Kevin Barrett, Jim Hoffmann or Barrie Zwicker?

Since 9/11 has been used as the pretext for the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq, the massive restrictions and violations of our civil liberties and the creation of a national security state; isn't it time that the "progressive" media finally take a long and careful look at it?

Millions of Americans already reject the government's 9/11 myth and thousands more recognize it as a lie every day. How much longer will AlterNet risk its credibility by refusing to investigate the most important story confronting America today?

The truth shall set us free. Love is the only way forward.

99.9% Proof of Controlled Demolitions
Posted by: Steve Heller on Feb 5, 2007 1:23 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If, and only if, the scores of witnesses who said they saw molten metal in the debris piles of ground zero are telling the truth, then the case for some kind of exothermic reaction, most likely thermite, can be shown to have caused the collapse of the towers.

It really is that simple. And as accurate as a fingerprint.

When I first heard stories of molten metal, I did not believe them. This is because, as many 911 researchers, and FEMA and NIST will agree, jet fuel did not even come close to melting steel.

When I first read the paper by professor Steven Jones of BYU that multiple people saw molten metal in the debris piles of ground zero, I went and looked for credible evidence of such witnesses. They must be incorrect I thought.

But to my horror, they were plenty and credible. Mayor Giuliani even said he saw it. Numerous workers at ground zero saw it. Apparently, NASA thermal imaging indicated the residual heat that would be present with so much molten metal. (I can't positively confirm that though)

So where does molten metal come from? Since we ruled out jet fuel fires, what are the remaining possibilities?

One website proposed a chemical cocktail of some sort. This is not completely impossible, but no evidence exists that I have seen to support this theory.

Pressure from the collapse certainly is not a possibility. That was a lot of energy but no where near that required to melt steel, or even pure iron.

But something melted that steel. And it was not part of any official explanation. In fact, I have yet to find even one credible solution to the molten metal problem. Scientific American did not address it. Popular Mechanics, as far as I've seen, has not addressed it. Many, instead resort to ad hominem attacks on Dr. Jones personally.

I have yet to find any other evidence, from collapse rate, debris trajectories, seismic evidence, testimonial evidence, or the apparent presence of "squibs" that is conclusive.

But when you factor in the circumstantial, theoretical, and testimonial evidence with the presence of molten metal, the case for a collapse either due to, or accompanied by an exothermic reaction becomes extremely likely if not outright confirmed. It would certainly meet the standard of beyond reasonable doubt.

In a vacuum, one could, I suppose, entertain numerous possibilities for molten metal. But in the presence of compelling, yet inconclusive on its own, evidence of explosive detonations, the cause of the molten metal is as damning as a fingerprint.

In other words, in the absence of molten metal, the other evidence is compelling, yet inconclusive. Taken with the presence of molten metal, however, the case for a powerful exothermic reaction exceeds reasonable doubt.

As to any broader conspiracy theories, I have no position on that. For all I know, al Qaeda planted bombs in the building - although, obviously, that's highly unlikely.

But on the forensic evidence alone, we can say with 99.9% certainty that a powerful exothermic reaction was present in all three WTC buildings either immediately prior to, or during collapse.

Of course, while I am not advancing any theory of a conspiracy, I cannot fail to acknowledge that the consequences of this evidence could not be more grave for my country. I simply cannot imagine what devious machinations would compel someone or ones to perpetrate such an act.

I only know that I am extremely scared to be an American, and a human being at this point in history. Not from the events of 911, but because no one in authority has addressed how molten metal got into the debris pile at ground zero. This is powerful evidence in and of itself that those who perpetrated this act are still at large.

» Except that... Posted by: brunowe
» RE: xcept that... Posted by: Steve Heller
» RE: xcept that... Posted by: brunowe
About the smartest post here so far...
Posted by: Ian MacLeod on Feb 5, 2007 8:07 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
... said something like, "I am extremely scared to be an American in these times."

Whatever you think about the specifics, some things are undeniable:
1). The "evidence" from 9-11 just doesn't add up
2).The government has been shown to have lied about a number of things, including the safety of the air quality, preventing people from protecting themselves when they could have, at least somewhat.
3).Prior knowledge, no matter how much or little YOU think there was, is UNDENIABLE. So why wasn't anyone warned, who profited, and who's blocking the info now?
4).There WERE traces of thermite, and metal that couldn't have melted under the "official" conditions DID, no matter how loudly you scream about tinfoil hats.
5).The planes COULD NOT have taken those buildings down - they were DESIGNED specifically against it.
6).Buildings DO NOT fall straight down into their own footprints without some very careful, very EXPERT engineering, PERIOD, nor would they have fallen at almost EXACTLY the speed they would have had every individual support been cut loose at the same instant and DROPPED - but they did.
7).Trading shows prior knowledge by some, PERIOD. No question, no matter how much you want to deny it.
8). Cheney was in charge of MULTIPLE "drills" that removed all protection from that area for JUST THE RIGHT AMOUNT OF TIME AT JUST THE RIGHT TIME when he wasn't qualified and there was no reason for his being in charge at all.

10+++...). There are just too damned many unanswered questions and things that don't make sense for this to be what it was clearly meant to appear to be, and "investigations" were blocked, scripted, redacted, etc, expert witnesses were and are ignored, and on and on. WHY? There's only one reasonable answer: it was a false-flag operation designed to do what it did: give the Neocons the "Pearl Harbor-like incident" they needed to grab pwoer. There may well have been more to it, but at basis, THERE IS NO OTHER ANSWER THAT FITS EVEN THE BASIC KNOWN FACTS.

Regarding my first comment here: look at what's happened to our "inalienable rights" since, who did it, and how they did it. Then read PNAC's goals, suggested methods, and their last homepage posting: "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED". If you still buy ANY PART of the official story, enjoy your intellectual cowardice and your thorazine.

Ian

Shocking reality!
Posted by: farhada on Feb 5, 2007 11:57 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Many of the issues that so called 9/11 truth movement is talking about, is nothing but result of a non-functioning society.

Just like in the Soviet Union during the Chernobyl catastrophe, the foot soldiers, as well as middle managers failed to act according to the protocol. That combined with an arrogant and incompetent leadership created a catastrophe.

Bush and his administration has shown the world again and again (first on 9/11, then during Tsunami, Katrina, Iraq invasion and many other times), that they are nothing but a bunch of arrogant idiots.

9/11 and Katrina showed that the US society and specially the middle managers in the country are nothing but a bunch of idiots who can not take action in the time of crisis.

The main reason why the did not act on the warnings, is mostly because they are arrogant and could not even imagine that anyone could even think of attacking "the greatest country on earth".

There is so much BS about the controlled demolition and other idiotic issues that has left the legitimate questions on the side.

And that is the big tragedy of the 9/11.

US government, just like most of the cooperate America and in some degree the majority of the citizens in the country are always working with "blame" mentality. No one is taking responsibility for their action.

If a family watches TV, 6 hours a day and their students fail in the school, the do not talk about the responsibility of the parents to take care of their kids, but they blame it on the schools system.

When a project fails due to lack of leadership, man discuss in the the management issues, but try to find a few individuals to blame.

And in government level, whenever something goes wrong, you blame it on the outside sources, and since no one care to do anything about the situation, they can go away with it.

If the 9/11 moment had put their energy and money behind the simple FACT that the US police, CIA, FBI and it's president FAILED to prevent the attacks, even though there were 100s of warnings available to them, and had worked together to stop the re-election of this criminal gang, then maybe 10s of thousands of innocent people would have been alive right now.

But instead, they were elected again, and once again, a new "blame" was found, it was not the American people who chose the macho-lying-criminal-gang, but it was the electronic voting machines were to blame, not the Democrats who did not do anything to stop them, even though they had months and month of time to prepare and stand up against it, but the evil forces who fooled you once again.

You know my dear Americans, as a by-stander, you have been fooled WAY too many times to blame the others for what is happening in your country, if there is anyone to blame it is you, the whole society who is not fighting for your freedom, your honor and your future, who are to blame.

Best regards,
/Farhad Abdolian

http://www.bloglines.com/blog/InsaniToughts

9/11 and the left
Posted by: patrickp on Feb 5, 2007 1:08 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Nothing has been so surprising for me as the stand-down of the left-wing press in this country regarding the issue of 9/11. One would think that people in the peace movement would be the LAST to trust the government about anything, yet unchararacteristically they accept the Bush regime's word about the events of 9/11. Publications like the Nation and Z-Net just reaffirm the status-quo. Sep 11 was an inside job and this issue, of all the issues, really has all the potential to turn the whole population against the neo-conservative agenda. It is great that Alternet has seen fit to publish "the other side". One the good guys is talk show host George Noorey, who has continued to hammer this issue for over a year to millions of listeners on Coast to Coast. I wish Alex Jones could go on Air America radio and talk about how 9/11 was a self-inflicted wound. Or how the terrorists were trained on US naval/air bases. Or how the CIA was playing war games that day which exactly mimicked the real attacks. It just goes on and on. Every part of the official account can be shown to be false.

» Common fallacy Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Common fallacy Posted by: dover23
» RE: Common fallacy Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Common fallacy Posted by: pomes
» RE: Common fallacy Posted by: brianct
RE: PatrickP above
Posted by: rwa on Feb 5, 2007 1:42 PM   
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The issue seems to be that the "left" hates Islam and especially the traditional social structures in Iran and Afghanistan which don't offer any avenue for western domination. These "leftists" are no different from Maoists, Stalinists, or Wilsonian liberals, crush traditional societies and impose the western ideology.
It doesn't require orders from the CIA, it's where they are at. They are simply on board with the neocon agenda.

» RE: PatrickP above Posted by: patrickp
Kucinich expressed new interest in 9/11
Posted by: johndoraemi on Feb 5, 2007 2:00 PM   
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In a recent interview Dennis Kucinich asked for information about September 11th. Here is my letter.


Representative Kucinich,

If you want my vote, or even my support for any Democratic candidates at all in 2008, it comes down to the high treason of September 11th 2001. I shouldn't need to be typing this letter, but the 9-11 Commission was a cover up, plain and simple, and anyone with three brain cells to rub together knows it.

That is treason enough.

Mr. Bush was moved out of his high rise hotel in July 2001 in Genoa Italy because of a "known Al Qaeda plot to hijack commerical airliners and crash them into the summit of industrialized nations" (LA Times 9-27-01).

So what was he doing sitting in that classroom? Where was the secret service? Why did Ari Fleischer hold up a sign saying "DON'T SAY ANYTHING YET"? (Wash. Times, 10-7-02)

Where was the Air Force? How can Washington DC remain undefended for over an hour and twentry minutes? Norad told three different and conflicting stories. None of them, are in my opinion, true.

Dick Cheney was in command of nine known "war game exercises" happening simultaneously during the attacks. Don't you find this suspicious? Don't you find it amazing that this hasn't been investigated at all? Could this account for the nation's fighter jets being in Canada and Alaska when we needed them?

The 9-11 commission ommitted Secretary of Transportation Norman Mineta's testimony about Cheney being in control in the PEOC at 9:20 and telling a junior officer "Of Course the order still stands, have you heard anything to the contrary?" WHAT ORDER? Who was he talking to?

The 9-11 Commisssion also ommitted the MONEY TRAIL leading back to Omar Saeed Sheikh and Pakistani ISI.

The 9-11 Commission also ommitted Able Danger, and that DIA had identified the Atta cell in 2000.

No investigation of Atta and his friends' activities in Venice Florida has happened. Daniel Hopsicker has independently uncovered evidence of DRUG SMUGGLING at the Huffman Aviation "flight school", which was evidently a protected operation. Need I remind you about the CIA's sordid history "Air America", of smuggling drugs for decades?

9-11 STINKS TO HIGH HEAVENS, MR. KUCINICH. CAN YOU WITH GOOD CONSCIENCE IGNORE THIS MOUNTAIN OF EVIDENCE?

(You have now, for five years.)

http://crimesofthestate.blogspot.com/

The buildings were dropped, and not by the jetliners!
Posted by: adempatriot on Feb 5, 2007 5:42 PM   
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I worked residential and commercial construction for over 25 years, but am not a trained structural engineer. But I am convinced that the building in NYC did not fall down as a result of the airliners, which were only a (very big) red herring to cover up the real demolition sequence.
When even a small passenger plane crashes in this country, months, sometimes years, are spent in investigating the cause of the accident. Airplanes are painstakingly reassembled as much as possible. all kinds of analyses and tests are done.
But when the World Trade Center falls down, none of the evidence is scientifically examied, but shipped off to be melted into scrap. To hide residue caused by Thermite charges, maybe?
jgib at http://politicsmusicandboatsohmy.blogspot.com/

Alternets believes George Bush: Hicks article a sop
Posted by: brianct on Feb 5, 2007 10:29 PM   
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'A humdinger of a conspiracy, that one. My conspiracy nut friends know it's true because they have it on good authority -- George Bush told them so.
http://www.swans.com/library/art12/rdeck068.html
=======================


Alternet, like other leftwing gatekeepers, found no problem in posting 3 attack pieces on the 9-11 Truth movement to one belated MIHOP piece. By Hicks. It would take a psychoanalyst to understand the mindset that can criticise the Bush administration as a bunch of liars, yet endorse the biggest lie of all: tghat 9-11 was the work of OBL and his alqaeda network.
But now theyve decided to post a pro-9-11 article, under much resistance, i imagine. Yet the Hicks article has managed to ignore just about eveything the 9-11 Truth movement has uncoverer these past 5 years.
There is no mention of David Ray Griffin or Thierry Meyssan or Steven Jones or Killtown etc. Nothing on the WTC Controlled demolition, nothing on the fact that 6 of the alleged hijackers turned up alive within days.Nothing on the absence of security camera evidence of any hijackers at the airports the planes flew out from; nothing on the cell phone anomalyes; nothing on Bin Ladens interviews where he denies being behind 9-11; nothing on the fact the FBI spirited away security videos of the Pentagon attack never to be seen from that day to this (who knows if the recent releases are the same videos); nothing on the anomalis behaviour of the suspects, suppsoedly devote muslims freuquent dance bars and leaving a Koran behind in one, the last day of their lives; nothing about the anomaly of the cellphone calls: almost impossible to make at cruising altitude, or that only Barbara Olson made a call from Flight 77 (check out the passenger list: these people didnt own cell phones??)

Brian Souter

gatekeepers and losers!
Posted by: patrickp on Feb 6, 2007 9:42 AM   
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The "left" has a need to appear normal and not out-there. So they never invistigate 9/11. With just a modicum of research it becomes very apparent that 9/11 could not have been carried out except by our government. In fact, many government employees has come out and blown the whistle and said, "9/11 was an Inside Job." What we have seen, however, is that many people who have not been politically active in the past have arisen from the woodwork. For example, David Ray Griffin and George Noorey. George Noorey is the host of Coast to Coast am, which is the most listened to talk show in the world with 8 to 10 million listeners a week, second only to Lord Limbaugh. He has been hammering this issue for almost two years. Alex Jones is a frequent guest on Coast to Coast. Yet Alex Jones is basically an unknown in circles like democracynow, the Nation and Air America Radio. I am glad that Alternet realizes the importance of airing both sides, even if these gatekeepers do not agree. That is an intellectually honest position to take. If the left really got behind 9/11, and I mean the Amy Goodman's and the Sam Seders, it could be so positive for our whole world. In his latest book David Ray Griffin makes the point that this could actually turn our world around and make people start addressing the global warming crisis. Let's face it: Until the truth is known about Sep 11, our energies as a nation are going to be focused on war and not on the ecological crisis. Although people within dissident circles, like Noam Chomsky, can say that this crime is small in comparison to the invation of Iraq, most Americans would see this as qualitatively different and it may engender a higher consiousness. And there is precedent for our government engaging in false flag terrorism. Ever heard of Operation Gladio? So thank you Sandra Hicks and I hope you get more of your stuff published!!!

911 thought experiment
Posted by: siamdave on Feb 6, 2007 9:50 AM   
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- an interesting perspective about planes and gas and steel and concrete and falling buildings that hasn't gotten much attention, but seems very relevant - http://www.rudemacedon.ca/lgi/911-thoughtex.html

- and a shorter one about believing 'experts' as well -

http://www.rudemacedon.ca/lgi/07/911-experts.html

911=MIHOP! No doubt in my mind.
Posted by: alternate864 on Feb 6, 2007 9:56 AM   
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I demand a real and thorough investigation of 91101.
The PNAC agenda is in full implementation because of 911.
And no one is doing anything about this.
A PNAC Primer

Sep 11 connects to other false flag terrorism
Posted by: patrickp on Feb 6, 2007 11:17 AM   
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I wonder how many people in the 9/11 movement are
even aware that 7/7 in London was also a classic false flag terrorism. Some of the same researchers of 9/11 have looked into these London bombings, like Michel Chossudovsky and Alex Jones. It fits the same pattern. In both events you had government agencies running drills that exactly mimicked the attacks.

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