Home
Archive
Newsletters
Video
Blogs
Discuss
About
Search
Donate
Advertise
Advertisement
Advertisement
Advertisement
Advertisement
Advertisement
Advertisement
  • AlterNetYour turn

Support AlterNet
Do you value the information you're getting from AlterNet? Please show your support with a tax-deductible donation.


Feedback
Tell us how we're doing.

Advertisement
Advertisement

Active Duty Soldiers Call for An End to the Occupation of Iraq

By Marc Cooper, TheNation.com. Posted December 18, 2006.


For first time since Vietnam, hundreds of active-duty military personnel have organized to oppose a war that they are fighting.

Share and save this post:

      

      

Share on Facebook       

AlterNet Social Networks:
follow us on twitter
find us on Facebook

More stories by Marc Cooper

Advertisement
Upcoming AlterNet stories on Digg

For the first time since Vietnam, an organized, robust movement of active-duty US military personnel has publicly surfaced to oppose a war in which they are serving. Those involved plan to petition Congress to withdraw American troops from Iraq.

After appearing only seven weeks ago on the Internet, the Appeal for Redress, brainchild of 29-year-old Navy seaman Jonathan Hutto, has already been signed by nearly 1,000 US soldiers, sailors, Marines and airmen, including dozens of officers -- most of whom are on active duty. Not since 1969, when some 1,300 active-duty military personnel signed an open letter in the New York Times opposing the war in Vietnam, has there been such a dramatic barometer of rising military dissent.

Interviews with two dozen signers of the Appeal reveal a mix of motives for opposing the war: ideological, practical, strategic and moral. But all those interviewed agree that it is time to start withdrawing the troops. Coming from an all-volunteer military, the Appeal was called "unprecedented" by Eugene Fidell, president of the National Institute of Military Justice.

The Nation spoke with rank-and-file personnel as well as high-ranking officers -- some on the Iraqi front lines, others at domestic and offshore US military bases -- who have signed the Appeal. All of their names will be made available to Congress when the Appeal is presented in mid-January. Signers have been assured they are sending a communication to Congress protected under the Military Whistleblower Protection Act. The Pentagon is powerless to take official reprisals and has said that as long as active-duty personnel are not in uniform or on duty, they are free to express their views to Congress.

There are of course other, subtler risks involved. The military command exercises enormous power through individual reviews, promotions and assignments. But that hasn't kept a number of signers from going public with their dissent.

Navy Lieut. Cmdr. Mark Dearden of San Diego, for example, enlisted in 1997 and is still pondering the possibility of a lifetime career. "So this was a very difficult decision for me to come to. I don't take this decision lightly," he says. But after two "tough" deployments in Iraq, Dearden says signing the Appeal was not only the right thing to do but also gave him personal "closure."

"I'm expressing a right of people in the military to contact their elected representatives, and I have done nothing illegal or disrespectful," Dearden adds.

Other interviews with active-duty soldiers, sailors, Marines and airmen who have signed the Appeal for Redress reveal an array of motivations. Here are excerpts:

"Lisa" -- 20 years old, E-4, USAF, Stationed at Hickam Air Force Base, Hawaii:

I joined up two weeks after I turned 17 because I wanted to save American lives. I wanted to be a hero like any American child.

I supported the war when I joined because I thought it was justified. Only after my own research and the truth coming out did I learn how wrong I was, how -- for lack of a better word -- how brainwashed I was.

Now I know the war is illegal, unjustified and that our troops have no reason for being there.

When I saw an article about the Appeal in the Air Force Times I went online right away and signed it and have encouraged others to do the same.

"Sgt. Gary" -- 21 years old. US Army. Deployed with 20th Infantry Regiment, near Mosul, Iraq:

I joined up in 2001, still a junior in high school. I felt very patriotic at the end of my US History class. My idea of the Army was that you signed up, they gave you a rifle and you ran off into battle like in some 1950s war movie. The whole idea of boot camp never really entered my head.

I supported the war in the beginning. I bought everything Bush said about how Saddam had WMDs, how he was working with Al Qaeda, how he was a threat to America. Of course, this all turned out to be false.

This is my second tour, and as of a few days ago it's half-over. Before I deployed with my unit for the second time I already had feelings of not wanting to go. When in late September a buddy in my platoon died from a bullet in the head, I really took a long hard look at this war, this Administration, and the reasons why.

After months of research on the Internet, I came to the conclusion that this war was based on lies and deception. I started to break free of all the propaganda that the Bush Administration and the Army puts out on a daily basis.

Digg!    Share on facebook   submit to reddit    Bookmark on Delicious   Stumble This  

See more stories tagged with: congress, iraq, soldiers speak, dissent

Liked this story? Get top stories in your inbox each week from AlterNet! Sign up now »

Advertisement
Advertisement

 

Comments Turn comments off sitewide Give us feedback »
Comments closed.
The comments for this story have been closed. Thank you to everyone who participated.
View:
finest
Posted by: rsaxto on Dec 18, 2006 12:59 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
These soldiers are the finest in the US army for they are able to see the truth and know that they are in an illegal situation and a fruitless situation in Iraq and are willing to blow the whistle on this gross mistake of a war. The finest thing we can do for all US personell in Iraq is to bring them home and thus end the pointless slaughter/occupation in Iraq and allow the Iraqis to have the freedom they so richly deserve.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: finest....maybe Posted by: Captainmagic
» RE: finest Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: finest Posted by: GVon
» RE: finest WTF?? Posted by: duece67
» RE: finest Posted by: greatberr
» RE: finest Posted by: duece67
» RE: finest Posted by: Astroboy
» RE: finest Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: finest Posted by: Astroboy
» RE: finest Posted by: duece67
Major General Smedley Darlington Butler- USMC- Retired
Posted by: mite on Dec 18, 2006 1:42 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
To all my brothers and sisters in this nations military I would suggest you take the time to read these information WEb sites. "Semper-Fi"

It is fact about the action of WAR. Remember your Oath.

www.lexrex.com/enlightened/articles/warisaracket.htm

www.whatdoesitmean.com www.furnitureforthepeople.com

Remember we support you out here, a patriot.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Surge in US forces politically motivated
Posted by: robchapman on Dec 18, 2006 3:57 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The above article demonstrates that some of us are paying attention to and remember the various and self-contradictory statements President Bush makes about Iraq.

October 06 was the deadliest month of operations for US forces in Iraq. President Bush, campaigning for Republican candidates stated that the surge in violence was due to the insurgents trying to discourage the American people and that his policies were working and no change was needed.

Now the President has gone to into seclusion to study the war he has been waging for the past three years in order to change our war policies.

One of the ideas being floated is a counter surge in US forces.
What has changed in the military situation since October?

Clearly the problem for the President is to demonstrate that he has the political strength to control the war from the White House.

Bush got us into this and for three years has shown a marked inability to deal with the reality of the situation in Iraq. He does not deserve another chance to mess up. The American people deserve better.

Congress, the House of Representatives, should immediately stop providing supplemental funding to the war and put the war expenditures into the regular defense appropriations bill.

When Administration officials and their stooges in the Pentagon have to start coming before Congress to request funding authorization, the American people will finally begin to learn the true facts about this war.

Trusting the American people with this information will be a powerful step in devising a strategy for settling this conflict.

Until and unless the American government shows it trusts its own people and our institutions in the conduct of policy it will not have credibility as an advocate of democracy or even of fairness.

Robert Chapman
Lansing, NY

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» De-Funding the War Posted by: CatDad
» Typical left/right drone Posted by: Habaro
» RE: Typical left/right drone Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Typical left/right drone Posted by: Conservasaurus
Sir, No, Sir!
Posted by: Erik1968 on Dec 18, 2006 4:46 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If you're surprised by this article, you HAVE to see Sir!, No, Sir! It's the best documentary I've ever seen.

And you can get a free copy from Iraq Veterans Against the War if you're an active duty soldier.

I'm sorry if this sounds like an ad, but it's an incredible moving documentary about the anti-war movement among the soldiers in Vietnam. I never knew that movement existed.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» No need to apologize... Posted by: SteveB
» RE: Sir, No, Sir! Posted by: Conservasaurus
THIS COMBAT VETERAN IS LOOKING FORWARD TO THE NEW YEAR!
Posted by: kc10ken on Dec 18, 2006 5:52 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
yes indeed...............

When Nancy Pelosi begins the Congressional investigations into the LIES that dragged us into Iraq it will be a refreshing new day for America and the world.

The human shitwave in Wasington masquerading as an administration that put us in Iraq WILL be held accountable because of Americans like us.

WE WILL NEVER FORGET THIS OBSCENITY AGAINST HUMANITY CALLED OPERATION IRAQI FREEDOM.

Bush, Cheney, Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld, Perle, Feith, Bolton, Rice......ALL the PNAC warmongers will be dragged kicking and screaming to the halls of justice for crimes against humanity and for using our Constitution as a door mat.

There are MILLIONS of us VERY vocal Veterans out here, like me, who have been opposed to dumbya's QUAGMIRE in Iraq since the fall of 2002 when the winds of war began blowing. We will make sure that 3000 of our compatriots did not die for nothing. THEY scream for justice America! DON'T LET THEM DOWN!

DEMAND PELOSI CONDUCT INVESTIGATIONS, PROSECUTIONS, IMPEACHMENT AND IMPRISON!

NOTHING LESS.....................

GOD BLESS THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA AND EVERY SOLDIER SENT INTO HARMS WAY BY THIS SHITSTAIN ADMINISTRATION.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

GEORE BUSH, SHAME ON YOU
Posted by: VZEQICVA on Dec 18, 2006 7:21 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Bush's war did not make him a great president. That was his plan if you remember. Instead is has turned Iraq into the worse place on earth. Nation building won't work here. Almost 3 thousand of our own are dead. If those remaining in Iraq want to come home I'm all for it. Does anyone remember what they were supposed to do there in the first place? Their Commander in Chief is deeply disturbed and not fit to make decisions. Thanks, ANNA

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: GEORE BUSH, SHAME ON YOU Posted by: VietnamVet
» RE: GEORE BUSH, SHAME ON YOU Posted by: gonzoskismet
» RE: GEORE BUSH, SHAME ON YOU Posted by: sasquuatch55
I salute you
Posted by: outlander55 on Dec 18, 2006 7:54 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is good to know that our men and women in uniform are not drones that do not think for themselves. I can only hope that the calls for withdrawal from people like Jack Murtha and his collegues in congress don't go unheeded.
As for impeachment of the criminal element in the White House, I can only hope that our Representitives will listen to the "people" and not care about upsetting the apple cart. Curious George Bush and Darth Cheney belong in jail. Plain and simple. If That can happen, Nancy Pelosi will finnish out the term as President and the world may be just a bit safer for us and the rest of the Earths children.
It is time that this administration stop talking to us like we are insolent children and face the music of their deceptions.
George Bush, Darth Cheney, Paul Wolfawitz, Richard Pearl , Condoleeza Rice, and their mouth pieces are all enemies of the state and should be prosecuted as such.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: I salute you Posted by: VietnamVet
» RE: I salute you Posted by: gonzoskismet
» RE: I salute you Posted by: armybrat8
I, too, salute you!
Posted by: NowYogi on Dec 18, 2006 8:30 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I was in the US Army from 1968-71. I was stationed in West Germany and slowly became educated about the insanity and immorality of Vietnam...so I applied for CO status. AND sent over a hundred letters to antiwar Congress people, groups, media, etc. Since I was a Sergeant in good standing, they didn't know what to do with me...so they sent me to Tehran, Iran, as a non-combatant setting up radio communication sites for the Shah's secret police, the Savak. I was fortunate...but I know if they tried to send me to Vietnam I would have refused, and paid the price. After all, one does have to live with ones conscience.

If there are any soldiers reading this, please do what you know to be right...cuz you have to live with yourself for the rest of your life. Be brave, have courage and practice honor. I salute you, my Brothers and Sisters!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Don't Ask- Don't Tell
Posted by: NoPCZone on Dec 18, 2006 8:35 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What would the DoD do if thousands of troops marched into their Company Commanders and told them that they were gay? Under Don't Ask- Don't Tell they are supposed to be discharged. Maybe it's time to force the issue and strike a blow for two issues at once.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Don't Ask- Don't Tell Posted by: hgswell
» RE: Don't Ask- Don't Tell Posted by: hughrhodes
» RE: Don't Ask- Don't Tell Posted by: Whitey894
» RE: Don't Ask- Don't Tell Posted by: KyNYC
» Alice's Restaurant Posted by: armybrat8
http://articlesofimpeachment.net/
Posted by: rwa on Dec 18, 2006 8:45 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Center for Constitutional Rights (CCR), America’s leading group of constitutional scholarship and activism, has developed a legal case for the impeachment of George W. Bush. Now, in collaboration with Melville House Books and progressives across the U.S., they are sponsoring a “National Teach-In” to share their case, what’s at stake, and what impeachment means for every American.

On this site, you can find a teach-in in your neighborhood, town, or city. Or you can sign-up to host a teach-in and bring this important and non-partisan discussion of impeachment to your home, school, church, or community center.

http://articlesofimpeachment.net/

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

http://girights.objector.org/
Posted by: rwa on Dec 18, 2006 8:52 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
¡Nuevo! ¡Información en español!
We are a network of nonprofit, nongovernmental organizations who provide information to servicemembers about military discharges, grievance and complaint procedures, and other civil rights.


In Alaska: call 888-554-2822 or 374-2822 in Fairbanks.
Are you stationed in Germany? Click here.
From elsewhere outside the U.S., call 510-465-1472.
Email: girights@objector.org

Whether you are in the Army, Navy, Air Force or Marines, we can help with military discharges, such as:
Delayed Entry Program (DEP)
Hardship
Conscientious Objection
Entry Level Separation
Don't Ask, Don't Tell and
Homosexual Conduct
Medical
Psychological

We can help if you are AWOL or UA.

We can help if you are experiencing hazing, harassment or discrimination, or if you have been a victim of sexual assault.


Calls to the GI Rights Hotline are always free and confidential...

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Tears
Posted by: DataDoc on Dec 18, 2006 7:58 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It brings some tears to my eyes to read the comments from soldiers: Their disillusionment at a war that seems endless. We need to bring them home. Thanks veterans and active duty soldiers for speaking out!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Defenders of Freedom
Posted by: GVon on Dec 19, 2006 1:20 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They are indeed the finest, the best of the best, the most honorable defenders of freedom in the service. Many soldiers and war hawks talk about the military as the ones defending freedom. This is very true in times when the military is taking down ruthless dictators and ending institutions of tyranny, as our soldiers have done heroically many times in the past. But this is a different time, and the military is now in a very different situation.

The US military presence in Iraq is not a force to end tyranny. It IS the force of tyranny and injustice. Imagine a foreign military occupying your country with no goals other then domination, and you have a picture of tyranny and injustice in Iraq.

These soldiers are ideologically caught in a hard place: filled with patriotism and believing in the ideals of defending freedom, these thoughts all contradicting the reality on the ground on Iraq, the reality that their presence in Iraq is an illegal and unjust trespass.

I do not blame the soldiers for carrying out their orders. They are ideologically in a very difficult situation, and it is incredibly hard for them to really know what is the right thing to do. I'm sure they are doing what they think is right to the best of their judgment. But I still honor the soldiers, the ones who speak out against this injustice, as the finest and most honorable defenders of freedom. They have the courage and intelligence to battle injustice, even in the difficult situation where injustice is the one giving them orders.

We need more people who are actually willing to defend freedom and fight injustice, instead of those who just go through the motions of defending freedom without analyzing the true threat.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Ages
Posted by: chomsky on Dec 19, 2006 7:14 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Anybody else notice some of the people they used in the article are pretty young and joined up post-9/11, for patriotic reasonings? And now they're denouncing the war, just over five years later?

Let's give a big hand for impressionability. Let's clap for "Lisa", for how brainwashed she was; let's applaud "Gary," who thought a gun and some bravado would be enough and for his magnificent internet research skills, because you can really trust everything on the Internet; let's give a round for Mark Mackoviak, who went into the war gung ho, but found a year later it only reinforced his views that it was wrong.

I don't give a damn about the war, really; it's a war, and they happen to be common enough. However, these people who rushed in, all on the basis of "heroism" and patriotism to their country, absolutely insult any intelligence a human can show. 'Sure, I'll willingly throw myself into the bullets of the enemy now, but only if I can have a crisis of faith about it later!' The self-preservation kicked in a bit late; if anything, this Appeal for Redress should have been voiced in 2003, when the War on Terror became affluent. Seriously: how does one fight Terror? To do so, you would have to wage war on the entire planet, across the world, in every single country, including your own.

So we have people complaining, when it should have happened three years back, and we still haven't learned anything. That's evident in the historical comparison to Vietnam; fight a losing war, realize it, complain about it. It's a cyclical event that has happened again, and nobody seems to get it. So to fuckery with the war, with these people, and to everything in correspondence. It'll end eventually, the losers will mope, and the alleged winners will write the in the godawful history books of children everywhere their own truths.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Ages Posted by: f33dback
» RE: Ages Posted by: zmackoviak
» RE: Ages Posted by: cme24ktt
JAHN SEZ...
Posted by: jahnmcg on Dec 19, 2006 10:28 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I SERVED WITH C. CO. 2/6 INFANTRY OUT OF BAUMHOLDER, GERMANY. AT THE TIME OF THE WAR, AND WE WERE A PART OF THE FIRST PUSH ACROSS THE BORDER, WE DIDN'T HAVE THE "LUXURY" OF QUESTIONING IF THIS WAR WAS RIGHT. WE JUST MOVED OUT. WE DIDNT EVEN HAVE THE LUXURY OF FRESH WATER FOR ALMOST 6 MONTHS. NOW THAT I AM SWEATING OUT THE REMAINDER OF MY CONTRACT UNDER I.R.R, I AM IN A DIFFERENT POSITION. I BELIEVE WE NEED TO DRASTICALLY RETHINK OUR POSITION. PERIOD. ENOUGH DEAD IS ENOUGH DEAD NO MATTER WHICH SIDE UOY ARE ON.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: JAHN SEZ... Posted by: cdawg
» RE: JAHN SEZ... Posted by: cme24ktt
unknow soldiers
Posted by: jstephano on Dec 19, 2006 11:55 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I find it interesting that all of this negative comments about being in Iraq are either signed off by just a first name, no last or no name at all. If you have complaints or disagree with the USA being in Iraq, then you should at least have the courage to sign with you full name. I have also gone onto the web site
Appeal for Redress and found it to be a web site where no one takes credit for the site, such as who does the site belong to, who are the members. All it has is an address in Washington, DC. They don't even have the courage to put their names on it.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

More on impressionable troops
Posted by: freeyoke on Dec 19, 2006 12:05 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How dumb are our soldiers? Check out how many enlisted in 2001 and REENLISTED in 2005 and now they they claim they were hoodwinked. They have access to the Internet (something I didn't have in when I joined the Army in 1992) but did little to no researching whether to join the military and examine world affairs. One soldier joined in 2004 because she couldn't get a job in a humanitarian NGO. The military isn't the Peace Corps and she seemed confused to say the least.

Also, unless the stop-loss policy has changed, a few posters thought they couldn't ETS until some far-flung date. One guy thought he had stay in the military until 2023! You stay in until your unit finishes its tour in Iraq or Afghanistan.

None of the posters has entertained the notion a quick withdrawl could have some nasty consequences but then again none of them considered the war you joined to fight may not be the one you'll fight. Soldiers don't choose the war to fight, that is a political decision made by the politicians and voters who elect them. You never know the outcome of any war and if it will spread.

I wasn't in favor of the war in Iraq on strategic grounds. You divide your enemies. Iraq and Iran stalemated in each for eight years of war (1980-1988) and were at each others' throats in peacetime as well. Bush Sr. left Saddam in power in 1991 as a Iranian counterweight. All of these factors are now forgotten by anti-war fools intent on punishing a lame duck president instead of looking at the consequences.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Shut Up
Posted by: yerusalyim on Dec 19, 2006 12:06 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As a soldier, I'm embarrassed by these people. The overwhelming vast majority of us support the war effort and realize the worst thing we could do for American security is pull out of Iraq and let the terrorists have it.

I also take issue with soldiers being publically nonsupportive of the war. What one does and says as a private citizen is one thing, but when you attempt to organize servicemembers...and publically identify yourself as a service member and oppose a military policy of the United States you're out of line.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Shut Up Posted by: MrAllen
Iraq: The Nobel War
Posted by: rogerg on Dec 19, 2006 12:30 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The current Iraq war is not illegal. Iraq was in repeated violation of the legal terms of
surrender that it specifically agreed in order to stave off utter and total
defeat in the first Gulf war. Congress approved the use of
force for the current war. Saddam had been killing and
murdering millions of his own innocent people for his own evil ends.
No country can legally claim the rights of national sovereignty to protect itself when it
is using that national sovereignty as a cloak to assist in the genocide of its own people. You who are in the military - those of you who
are complaining now, suck it up and do your duty, and stand proud that you are fighting on the side of the United States of America and those brave young men and women who have served there or are serving there.

USMC 64 -68
RVN 65-66, 67 -68
Artillery Scout Forward Observer

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Very Sad!!
Posted by: proudtoserve on Dec 19, 2006 12:46 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You know after reading these sad commentaries from a generation of people who do not stand for anything other than what do i get out of this proves this country is fast becoming a 3rd world nation, God I fear for my kids!!!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

quick points
Posted by: duece67 on Dec 19, 2006 12:46 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
To help those who are thinking about entering the military or those who are in who haven't figured it out, here are some quick points to clarify some of the issues the subjects of this article seem to have:

1. The purpose of the military is to "kill people and break things." It is not some place for "lost" individuals to find themselves when they find out the world doesn't hand them their every wish.

2. If you are in the military, you very well may be called upon to "kill people and break things." Hawaii may be nice, however, don't plan on hanging out there while you "do your time" to repay Uncle Sam for your college expenses. Evidently, no one came around to ask you your opinion on the war or operations ahead of time so you have to do so now, which brings the next point...

3. Members of the military are to be "a-political" while in "view" of the public. What this means for those who are speaking out in this artcle is that you do not speak out against your military AND civilian leaders. You do not endorse politicians while you are in uniform (or identified as military), and you conduct yourselves in a professional manner. By failing to adhere to these basic concepts, you have now opened yourselves up to prosecution under the Articles of the UCMJ and the MCM. Better be familiar with them when you get called into the "old man's" office and read your rights.

4. Thank you to the active duty men and women, and to the vets. Sorry you have some naive idiots around you, 99.9% of you are the best society has to offer. I served proudly for over 20 years (AF), and I know what you are feeling.

5. I under stand if the military isn't for you, it isn't for everyone. If you re-up, SHUT UP! If you get out, thanks for you service--you worked your tail off for pay that was sub standard...

6. No doubt, the individuals in this article are part of their units 90/10 (10% of the people take up 90% of their supervisors time). Wonder how many of them are on their way out (not by choice)?

7. That's all, CARRY ON!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

What are these morons thinking?
Posted by: Porcomiale on Dec 19, 2006 12:53 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
1000 signatures? Big deal. You could get more signatures on a petition like this on Okinawa in 1945. EVERYBODY deployed in a combat zone wants to go home.

If this is an example of how "unpopular" the war is with the troops on the ground, the anti-war folks have a long way to go, sorry. And to use the above posted military personnel comments as "typical?" Rich. Especially the girl who couldn't get into the "human rights" field so she JOINED THE ARMY. Pure brilliance.

Everyone who signed up for the military after September 11 knew what they were getting into, plain and simple. Get the job done, WIN THE WAR, and get home safely.

Oh, yeah...and shut your pie holes, too.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

KICK THEM OUT
Posted by: joe c on Dec 19, 2006 12:57 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I HOPE THEY KICK THEM OUT WITH DISHONORABLE DISCHARGE. TRAITORS.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Goose Stepping
Posted by: proudtoserve on Dec 19, 2006 1:01 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Something just came to mind, just imagine trying to fight World War 2 with the likes of the crop of people posting here, I suspect we would be be doing the goose step instead.....

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Goose Stepping Posted by: joe c
I support shut up
Posted by: sd406 on Dec 19, 2006 1:12 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Those doing the complaining seem to be the Girls and the girly ones. Let me guess you support the troops and not the war get in line with all the other libs it's a broken record now. It' amazing to me I have not met one person other than news and on the internet that just HATE Bush! Well why don't you just hate the idiots that started this whole thing. Well troops my whole family support you with prayer and whatever else it takes. May the Lord protect and comfort you and give you wisdom and understanding. He his your salvation. Jesus Is Lord of Lords and King of Kings!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Myopic left still unable to locate long missing DNC quotes...
Posted by: cheneybush2008 on Dec 19, 2006 1:25 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction. ...without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation. And now he has continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction ... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real ... " “I will be voting to give the president of the United States the authority to use force - if necessary - to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security." SENATOR JOHN F KERRY (D, MA), in 2003

"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction."SENATOR TED KENNEDY (D, MA), in 2002

"As a member of the House Intelligence Committee, I am keenly aware that the proliferation of chemical and biological weapons is an issue of grave importance to all nations. Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process." – NANCY PELOSI, in 1998

"Iraq does pose a serious threat to the stability of the Persian Gulf and we should organize an international coalition to eliminate his access to weapons of mass destruction. Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to completely deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power." – AL GORE, in 2002

"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members .. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons." - Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), in 2002

"Iraq is a long way from [here], but what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face." - Madeline Albright, in 1998

"Hussein has ... chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies." - Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, in 1999

"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983." - Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, in 1998

"The community of nations may see more and more of the very kind of threat Iraq poses now: a rogue state with weapons of mass destruction, ready to use them or provide them to terrorists. If we fail to respond today, Saddam and all those who would follow in his footsteps will be emboldened tomorrow." – BILL CLINTON, in 1998

You IS saying, Babsniks?
Oh well.
HILLARY HAPPENS.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Losers
Posted by: vincem41 on Dec 19, 2006 1:27 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What a sorry bunch of losers and whiners. There is always a certain percentage who moan & pule. Some sorry-ass naval officer who had a "tough" tour in Iraq - what happened, did the wardroom run out of lobster? And the whole thing started by a navy seaman - what's up there - couldn't make 3rd class azz-wipe & and did the Chief yell at you. And an air farce chick stationed in Hawaii who joined because she couldn't get a job - what a sorry lot - kick them all out, give them BCD's, sanitize the area where they polluted it and get on with things.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Losers Posted by: Astroboy
Very Misleading Article
Posted by: onone on Dec 19, 2006 1:31 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I usually don't frequent liberal web sites, but I was linked here from another site. This article is pitifully misleading. The article seems to emphasis that U.S. servicemen and women are turning on the administration in unprecedented numbers! Not since Vietnam have we seen this sort of thing indicates the article (Vietnam was not as bad as the liberal history tellers would have you believe, but that is another topic all together.)

The fact is that this is a miniscule number of people when compared to the number actually serving. The article says, "...nearly 1,000 US soldiers, sailors, Marines and airmen, including dozens of officers -- most of whom are on active duty." From this we can conclude two things: 1) less than 1000 have signed this thing and 2) this number includes active and reserve-type personnel. So, I will start by granting one thing. That there are 1000 people who have signed this, it makes it easier to work with round numbers. In the US services there are (not including the US Coast Guard, because that branch is not mentioned in the article,) about:

Active Army: 500,000
Army Reserve: 340,000
Army National Guard: 200,000

Marine Corps: 180,000
Marine Reserves: 40,000

Active Air Force: 350,000
Ready Reserve: 70,000
Air National Guard: 100,000
Auxiliary: 57,000

Navy: 345,000
Naval Reserve: 145,000

These numbers were retrieved from Wikipedia. I'm sure that if you reference them with the DoD you'll find them accurate.

The total number comes to (I've rounded numbers down for the sake of not overstating my point) about 2.3 million people serving our great country.

If you take the 1000 who have signed this letter as a percentage of that population this comes to .044%. That's right! forty-four hundredths of a percent. I am willing to bet that you will find about the same number of people in peace-time that have decided that they have had enough with serving and would rather just leave and break their commitment. The difference is that in peace time, it is easier to do so and you're not labeled a coward or a deserter.

Let's out things into perspective folks. The liberal peace-nicks have not managed a major coup here. You're reading too much into this.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Small Numbers Do Not = Dramatic Indication
Posted by: VHunter on Dec 19, 2006 1:32 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This must be the "Flush America!" crowd.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Since When
Posted by: lilvinnyb on Dec 19, 2006 1:32 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Since when do soldiers decide when and where they want to fight? I fear for the future of this country with left wing groups who try to undermine the military and now soldiers who feel that they can decide to fight when THEY want to.

Suppose half of the people who invaded on D-day decided that their invasion would be occupation, the mission would have never been a success.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Whitey894
Posted by: Whitey894 on Dec 19, 2006 1:40 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What's up with the LIAR "named" Rebekah? Stationed with the 101st Airborne? I ACTUALLY SERVED with the 101st...they are out of FORT CAMPBELL, KENTUCKY...not the place you list as your duty station...liar, liar, pants on fire...

Maybe the intensive "brain-washing" the military does has you confused as to where you REALLY are...

Friggin' libtards...

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Libtards lead the way...
Posted by: Whitey894 on Dec 19, 2006 1:54 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Oh, and by the way...I think that Master Politician and World Leader, George cLooney, has it right...

Iraq is an illegal war and uncalled for...better that our troops should die in Darfur under the UN flag...maybe he can lead the way by example...

And for those of you who want to do "peace work" then go to the Middle East and sing campfire songs with Uncle Saddam...please, take cLooney with you.

AIRBORNE LEADS THE WAY!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Libtards lead the way... Posted by: peter1469
They are only human!
Posted by: jdunigan on Dec 19, 2006 2:51 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Okay, so a small minority of soldiers are against the war. I don't see why thats so surprising. They are only human. It seems to me the percentage of soldiers against the war are about the same as the percentage of americans who are actually against it. The vast majority of Americans are not AGAINST the war. The Republicans beat themselves in the elections. The election is not an indication that the majority of Americans oppose the war. They may disagree with the some of the strategery, but not the war itself. Most people understand its better to fight the terrorists over there and not over here. Most people understand these extremists cannot be negotiated with, They have only one goal, and its not American troops leaving Iraq. They want the whole world to be ruled under an Islamic government. If we abandon Iraq, we strengthen the extremists and embolden them even more. Its not a quagmire, its a tough fight against a foe that thinks their god is on their side and wants them to kill or enslave all non-muslims, not just soldiers. The majority of soldiers understand that, as do most Americans. If you don't understand that, its because you simply won't think about this issue with logic. You either are a bush-hater and want to make him look bad at all costs, or you come to your decision based on pure emotion and ignoring the actual facts. Thankfully most Americans are not on your side.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Bush should have nuked mecah and called it a day
Posted by: Magicpanther on Dec 19, 2006 3:06 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I served 18 years my last mission was Somalia where we got waxed because another President had his head up his ass, I have been in 6 different deployments where we were under fire each of them a total failure due to politicians

I am sick and tired of politicians trying to be warriors with other peoples blood, we have an EXCELENT officer corps and they are not listened to nor are their suggestions followed.

When this country sends it's men in women in harms way the politicians need to say this is the end product we want do what it takes to get it done. I am sick in heart for all the times I have been sent and others have been sent for BS reasons and NOT cut lose to do what we're trained to do, and that is to kill, destroy and get the hell out.

Screw re-building a country, screw getting involved with their politics. Had this IDIOT President done just that we'd have been in and out in what 8 weeks, and should have left LARGE bill board signs all over the country as we left saying as you live in poverty as you see your children die of starvation, desease, ponder the ass kicking you got and learn from it or we'll be back to make a glowing glass factory of your country.

It is my belief that when we were attacked that the President of the United States of America should have taken the smallest nuke we had droped it somewhere out of the way in Afghanistan fried some goats and few goat herders, and then address the world and the fanatics and tell them they have one week to deliver the head of Usama Bin Laden on the whitehouse steps, not the body just the head, and if this is not done we shall destroy Mecah. and another holy place each and every week thereafter until he is delivered.

Any Country that doesn't like it piss off, we do not need the permission of the world to protect our country or to destroy in TOTAL any country that allows terriorists to live, hide or train so that they can attack the USA again. WAR is not a fucking game, and we who have served and those who are serving are NOT fucking nameless pawns on a chess board to screw around with.

William Jefferson Clinton was a GUTLESS fool and George Walker Bush is a BRAINLESS idiot.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

War and deception
Posted by: peter1469 on Dec 19, 2006 3:17 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Much is said about whether Bush deceived America into the war in Iraq. Many people feel that he did and are very upset about it. However, it appears that these people have the false impression that even if Bush lied about the reasons for the war that it was a historical oddity for America.

Every major war that the US has entered, particularly since the Industrial Revolution has seen such conduct- in fact, even if what Bush’s detractors say is true, it is nothing compared to Wilson’s and FDR’s actions to get the US involved in the two world wars.

Wilson: Clearly maneuvered Germany into a position that it had to attack merchant ships. (This led to the shift in the public US views on entering the war) But it was based upon deceit. The UK was violating international law by employing close blockades (as opposed to far blockades that would let humanitarian good in.) German citizens were starving to death. When Germany employed submarines to attack British warships and merchant ships they did so according to the laws of war of the day. Long story short, Wilson put Americans in the war zone by ridiculously arguing that Americans can travel on any ship they wish and if they are killed by a German attack that would be an act of war. That was clearly contrary to the laws of war. Civilians travel on belligerent vessels at their own risk. This is just one example of Wilson placing the US in a position that would demand a declaration of war while telling the American people that the US had no interest in a European War.

FDR: After the devastation of WWI the US public wanted nothing to do with another European War. He ran for reelection on the platform that he would kept America out of the war. All along his policy practically forced Japan to attack Pearl Harbor by cutting off Japan’s oil supply. Additionally FDR sent representatives to England to assure Churchill that America would stand with England “even unto the end.”

So to all who are apoplectic over Bush’s actions- read some history, maybe it will calm you down. Nothing unusual is going on. Go about your business.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: War and deception Posted by: MrAllen
» RE: War and deception Posted by: peter1469
» RE: War and deception Posted by: peter1469
Just another Grunt who hasn't forgot his oath to his country
Posted by: conservativeman on Dec 19, 2006 4:52 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Its so retro seeing American serviceman and servicewomen denouncing the war in Iraq. It almost makes me want to dig in the garage for my Chairman Mao cap that was the rage during the 60's, throw on my tie-dyed T-shirt, slip into my bell bottoms, and start singing anti-war songs with Joan Baez and Bob Dylan.
But I can't bring myself to do it. Because it was the 60's another time, another era, people and the war were different then. The time now, and no matter how much an aging college professor, or the main stream media desire to relive the, "Fight the power" days it doesn't and cannot apply to the present day.
I grew up during the 60's and watched the Vietnam War on TV with Tom Brokaw every night then I finished growing up and joined the Marine Corps during the Iranian hostage crisis when an inept President Jimmy Carter couldn't or wouldn't bring the hostages home even when the now Iranian President invaded U.S. soil.
When I joined the United States Marine Corps I took a solemn oath to defend this country from all enemies foreign and domestic. My fellow Marines and myself didn't have the luxury of picking and choosing what conflict we thought was good or bad. Because in the oath of we swore to protect this country from, "ALL" enemies, not just the ones that we had political affiliation to. Sure it's easy to go an and recruit malcontents that are in the ranks, because it isn't about being anti-war its about trashing the President.
Call it what you will, it doesn't take a Rhodes Scholar to figure out that the whole anti-war movement is all about being anti President Bush. "The tune out, turn on crowd" want to see if they still have one more, "Fight the Power" moment to share with the grand kids. The problem is those who protested the power are now the power and profiting from this current war. Former Senator John Edwards purchased large amounts of stock in General Dynamics and other defense related companies and then he openly denounces this war while profiting from it. Rather hypocritical isn't it.
But the bottom line is, when an American swears an oath to defend this country that is exactly what it is an oath or contract if you will to defend all Americans, Democrats, Republicans, Liberals, and Conservatives. Because a country cannot field an effective military if the men and women in the military are bickering among st themselves in what is a good or bad war that they choose or not choose to fight in., leave the bickering to the politicians and aging acid headed professors that is where it belongs not in the military ranks.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

DANCE, PUPPETS, DANCE!
Posted by: chomsky on Dec 19, 2006 7:26 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Oh man, I didn't think my above post would be so inflammatory. Hilarious.

I do agree with conservativeman above me, though; let the arguing be done by the people useless to the war. It seems to be flourishing here.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Unpopular at home too!
Posted by: DataDoc on Dec 19, 2006 8:01 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Seems like this war is just as unpopular with non-soldiers at home as it is with soldiers at the front. Maybe since most of us are in agreement, we should get the heck out! We know we can't afford it. Where I live jobs we're shedding jobs and crime is up.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» DUH Posted by: duece67
Sold your brain?
Posted by: DataDoc on Dec 19, 2006 8:04 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Funny how a soldier gives up all of his or her rights to any opinions when they join the military. Is it true that you can no longer hold an opinion, or vote your conscience, or believe the war is wrong, just because a recruiter suckered you at age 18?

What's the cost of this war? More than we can ever repay.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Sold your brain? Posted by: duece67
» RE: Sold your brain? FREEDOM Posted by: sasquuatch55
» PV2 Lincoln Posted by: matthewlincoln
» RE: Sold your brain? Posted by: peter1469
» RE: Sold your brain? Posted by: peter1469
My thought process...
Posted by: zmackoviak on Dec 19, 2006 9:14 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
First let me explain that I am not claiming to represent the military, nor am I criticizing my commanders or the President of the United States. I represent only myself and my feelings are those of an American citizen who just so happens to be on active-duty in the United States Army. I pay taxes just like you.

I’m not trying to embellish my deployments to Afghanistan, Iraq or my continuing military service whatsoever.

From my perspective, when 200 Iraqis die in one day, whether it’s due to “sectarian violence” or “civil war,” either way there are 200 human beings who died violently. It's terrible but no amount of American firepower can dictate the desire of Arabs and Kurds, Sunni’s and Shi’ites to live peacefully with each other. Three years of American occupation in Iraq has proven this.

For the U.S. to “win” in Iraq it now requires the Iraqi government to be left stable, able to sustain itself economically, defend its borders, and remain a democracy. I don’t believe the slim possibility of all that happening is worth the loss of life that further occupation in Iraq will cost the United States. For that reason I believe it is time for the troops to come home and for this war to end.

-Mark Mackoviak

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Thank you
Posted by: insulaparadigm on Dec 20, 2006 11:44 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Seems like the troops voicing dissent got a really warm welcome from both right and left. I stopped going to protests once we invaded because I knew it was pointless and my efforts would just be twisted to be "not supporting the troops."
Once we invaded it was just too late.

I support the troops regardless if they feel they are "just doing their job" or believe in the Iraq war effort themselves. I'm grateful I'm not over there and respect the people who are “content” with being stuck there for whatever reason. I've send money through charities for troops in hospitals, disabled veterans etc. But I really have to applaud the soldiers speaking up.

My question though is always the same - if we are actually winning in Iraq and it is stable then why aren't scaling back? If things are going well how long will it take to make it good enough to leave? Are you ok with staying in Iraq for another 3-5 years? Is there going to be a surprise soon? Will Iran just take over afterwards anyways?

How long is this going to take? How come Afghanistan has record opium crops? Have we been winning the drug war too all this time? 30 years and we rank number one in prisoners per capita and probably illegal drug consumption. America pays homage to Sisyphus time and time again.

Seems like the "libtard" media has it right we really aren't winning in Iraq. More troops, more money more time. The former Pope Rummie is gone, how come the military is so catholic-esque? Both share I guess the same deep seated need to never question the superiors. Meanwhile the corporate cashing in goes berserk. I support all troops but I applaud the dissenters in the military. Brave enough to be killed in duty and also brave enough to raise your voice if you disagree.
Thank you.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Insulaparadigm is Right!
Posted by: onone on Dec 20, 2006 1:47 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...we should begin to scale back immediately! Withdraw from Iraq completely! We'll never succeed in stablizing Iraq anyway. I mean really, we didn't have to stay in Japan or Germany after WWII for as long as this, did we? Wait, we're still there... Oh well, it doesn't matter, if the US population can get a burger and fries in under 3 minutes why can't we establish a functioning democratic government in the most corrupt and terror-filled region of the world in just a few years? We should pull out now! I'm sure Al Qaeda, Syria and Iran will fill in the gaps nicely; how could that be any worse?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

DUTY & HONOR @ CORPORTE CRIME
Posted by: Hal on Dec 20, 2006 2:21 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There are a few people on this thread and elsewhere that seem to believe that taking an oath to “defend the country” out of a criminal DC and its MSM farce is what is at stake in an endlessly bogus “war on terror” (war on a noun).

Defending temp corporate crime stooges that talk the flag and pretend at having power over the nation out of Washington is not even close to what should be seen as military obligation.

What is at stake for any soldier is to protect and defend the constitution. That is because it is the constitution the founders created to bind the country for the common good and welfare of its people.

Virtually to a man, every founder considered a corporate monopoly hijack of the American Revolution to be (by far) the most lethal danger to the nation.

Blind obedience to a jingo false government is what Nazi Germany counted on. It is not the duty of a thinking human being or any American to do a mindless goosestep for corporate crime masked as lawful government.

“It is the duty of the patriot to protect his country from its government.”
THOMAS PAINE (a founder of America on the abuse of power, 1737-1809)

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

DUTY & HONOR @ CORPORTE CRIME II
Posted by: Hal on Dec 20, 2006 2:27 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
“Military men are just dumb, stupid, animals to be used as pawns in foreign policy.”
HENRY KISSINGER (ex American Secretary of State as a member of the Trilateral Commission & Bilderberger Group. Henry Kissinger appointed Paul Bremer to oversee the conquest and occupation of Iraq on 5/6/2003. Living. Quote 1990)

“ Let’s look at it simply. The most important difference between North Korea and Iraq is that economically, we just had no choice in [invading and conquering] Iraq. The country swims on a sea of oil.”
PAUL WOLFOWITZ (“neo-con” US Deputy Defense Secretary and chief architect of the Iraq War in effect admitting “war on terror” was fought over Big Oil factors. He gave this response to a question as to why the U.S. made war on Iraq and not North Korea, a country that is developing nuclear weapons of mass destruction. Quoted from a talk to an Asian security summit in Singapore 5/ 31/03)

“War is a racket. It always has been…A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of the people, only a small ‘inside’ group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the few, at the expense of the very many. Out of war a few people make huge fortunes.”
SMEDLEY DARLINGTON BUTLER (Major General - United States Marine Corps. Butler was awarded two Congressional Medals of Honor, for capture of Vera Cruz, Mexico, 1914, and for capture of Ft. Riviere, Haiti, 1917. He was also awarded the Distinguished Service Medal, 1919. Among other cartel robber barons, JP Morgan approached S.D. Butler for the Rockefeller-Rothschild bloc in 1934. The plan was for Butler to lead a military overthrow of the U.S. government then headed by FDR. Butler refused the proposed role as front man for an open fascist cartel takeover of America. The coup plan was abandoned for more discrete cartel variations. From his booklet “War is a Racket” 1935. 1881-1940)


SOLDIERS IN IRAQ (Quotes 2005-2006)

“If you’re looking for people to blame for the endless evil shit that happens in Iraq in this dishonorable Imperial war, blame the politicians that put the troops downrange, in an impossible situation. Everything flows from the act of invasion and conquest ordered up by the greedy Imperial liars and traitors in Washington DC. They are the enemy.”


“The lifers hold on to the lies of the system because the truth would destroy the core of their beliefs. The fact that the stars and bars is only an illusion for the real power behind the throne could ruin their psyche and crash their egos. They will never let go of their pride and use it as an excuse to cover their fear.
A war backed by our nation’s cowards. What else would a preemptive strike be good for. Americans get so afraid they will kill in cold blood and thump their chests to claim it for a good cause. I serve in shame.”


“Our leaders’ goals are not to the benefit of the majority who work themselves into poverty only to provide tax money that pays for their own shackles.
We deplete the strength and welfare of our own countrymen fighting as mercenaries for the elite rich who gain off exploiting government contracts and manipulating the oil market.”


“This war is about money. Most people believe that dollars are being handed over to Iraq to rebuild their country on the backs of the American taxpayers and under the protection of US troops. However, the money never sees Iraq. It leaves your wallet and goes through the system in DC and ends up in a corporation with the sizeable government contract. Sure the product is a new road, a school house or AK-47s for the Iraqi National Guard, but the money is only making a rich man richer.”

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

PLEASE EXPLAIN
Posted by: Australia on Dec 20, 2006 6:15 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What is it that the President wants/expects to win?

To change the culture of an entire nation?

C'mon even decent Iraqis want the Troops out...

He (Bush) should explain what winning actual entails!!!!!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: PLEASE EXPLAIN Posted by: peter1469
» RE: PLEASE EXPLAIN Posted by: MrAllen
» RE: PLEASE EXPLAIN Posted by: peter1469
» Psyops Explanations Posted by: Hal
» RE: Psyops Explanations Posted by: peter1469
» RE: PLEASE EXPLAIN Posted by: peter1469
» CARTEL PSYOPS STATE Posted by: Hal
» RE: CARTEL PSYOPS STATE Posted by: peter1469
» RE: CARTEL PSYOPS STATE Posted by: peter1469
» RE: CARTEL PSYOPS STATE Posted by: peter1469
» RE: CARTEL PSYOPS STATE Posted by: peter1469
» @ the DENIAL BUBBLE Posted by: Hal
» RE: @ the DENIAL BUBBLE Posted by: peter1469
» RE: @ the DENIAL BUBBLE Posted by: peter1469
Signer of the Appeal
Posted by: Merchant_Of_Menace on Dec 23, 2006 11:25 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Just wanted to make a statement that I, Marc Train, signed that Appeal.

Further, if anyone wants to hear more Servicemember testimonials...

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20070108/cooper

That links to the print version that will appear in the upcoming issue of The Nation.

How awesome is it to be quoted in a publication that you subscribe to?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]