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Sex Workers' Lit Ruined My Sex Life

By Anneli Rufus, AlterNet. Posted December 16, 2006.


A host of new books by authors who entered the sex trade and wrote about it make you not want to have intercourse again, ever, with anyone.
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Sex Workers' Lit Ruined My Sex Life

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She won't kiss them.

She'll spread her legs for them. She'll call them "honey" and "baby" and "darling" and even "snookums," and lube them up, though only with gloves on, and rub until they buck and moan. She'll tell them they're huge. But like most sex workers, Sarah Katherine Lewis won't kiss customers.

Her memoir "Indecent: How I Make It and Fake It as a Girl for Hire" (Seal, 2006) joins a string of new books about adult entertainers, along with Diablo Cody's self-consciously comic "Candy Girl: A Year in the Life of an Unlikely Stripper" (Gotham, 2006) and gender studies professor Bernadette Barton's polemical "Stripped: Inside the Lives of Exotic Dancers" (NYU, 2006). The publishing industry is funny that way. Some honcho sniffs a trend in the air, word leaks out like blood at the beach, then boom: one year it's all queer cowboys all the time. Or diets that let you eat lard. Right now it's lap dancers.

In this latter-day phase of stripper chic, academics such as Barton churn out doctoral dissertations about peep shows and shimmering poles. Middle-class 20-something smarties write memoirs about ditching drone jobs in cafes and offices for "the penis gallery," to quote prep-school grad Cody, whose Pussy Ranch blog led to a six-figure advance for Candy Girl, and who is now a millionaire screenwriter working on a project with Steven Spielberg. Ex-ballerina Barton toyed with but finally tossed the idea of "doing participant observation' by stripping, herself: "I had a 'good' body," reflects the author, who teaches at Kentucky's hilariously named but perfectly ordinary Morehead State. Married hipster Cody confides: "I desperately wanted to be a stripper."

Lewis, who picked the stage-name Emma to honor Emma Goldman and tried to chat with fellow dancers about Hawthorne and Poe, remembers her favorite childhood game: whore. "We took turns dressing up and being the whore," she writes. Lewis and Barton, one bisexual, the other a lesbian, both feminists, were lured by stacks of cash and by what Barton calls "attentive audiences" moaning "Nice ass," begging for licks.

These authors depict strip clubs as rank, jism-spackled. Barton calls them "the gut of patriarchy." But although she feels that adult entertainers "embody a nexus of oppression," they boast a strong sisterhood, making special meals for each other and sharing "an organic understanding of social inequality, including analyses of class, gender, and racial discrimination." Lewis concurs, dedicating her book "to the working ladies of Seattle ... the smartest, funniest, kindest, wisest, and most beautiful women in the entire world." Solidarity is super. What's icky is the sex.

"I imagined myself saying, This won't hurt a bit," Lewis writes, "and ripping his dick off like a Band-Aid. ... My crotch felt hot and infected."

"One man ... asked me to punch him in the stomach and testicles for ten minutes as hard as I could," Cody recalls. "He explained that he'd been raped as a child."

What happens for 50 bucks and tips at the Lips & Lace is one thing and what you do for fun is another. Right? Well -- less and less, as stripper chic and pimp-ho style become commodities. Mainstreaming the shiny outermost layers of sex work is a brilliant career strategy in every industry, from the media to merchandising to academia.

A D-I-Y porn course at Wesleyan University. Western Washington University's annual Pornfest. UC Santa Barbara's Pornography Research Focus Group. Porn Studies programs at schools nationwide. What a wet dream for right-wing radio hosts, who jeer that this is why jihadists hate us.

All this praxis and politics and glaring detail yanks sex from its original context into an alien and weirdly public one: semen as seminar. But hey -- if Lewis's description of how a customer "moaned and farted ... breaking chicken chow mein-scented wind" makes you flinch, or if Barton's musings about how "enduring oppression can foster a critique of social inequality" makes you yawn, then someone might call you a Republican.

None of which is to knock anyone for work well done. As revealed in these books, most sex workers start because they need the money. Strapped single moms. Students table-dancing for tuition. Escaped minimum-wage slaves such as Lewis who discover that paddling a stranger's buttocks for 10 minutes nets the same $40 that would require "eight hard, humiliating hours of work" in a restaurant. Sure, we wonder what goes on behind those marquees that say LIVE NUDES. So now we know. Are we having fun yet?

Yeah, if you like the smell of wigs and pee and the sound of women pretending to come.

Which brings us back to the question of why we read explicit accounts of sex anyway. Ever since the Kama Sutra, the answer has been: to get turned on. Simple. Such a gorgeous application of human circuitry. But in more and more new books like these, fuck narratives serve other functions. To test boundaries. To spark water-cooler buzz in a competitive, crowded, media-driven market. To proclaim authors and readers as transgressors slashing and burning sexual clichés: brave soldiers who are not what Lewis calls "passive victims" of the patriarchy but empowered. Starting to strip made Lewis feel "like a special, chosen person, a girl so pretty and smart I could make money using only my wits and my courage and my body, trusting my instincts and accruing knowledge in a steep learning curve that was both exhausting and exhilarating." Part of that learning curve entailed figuring out how "to squirt hair conditioner on my pussy and my butt to make fake cum."

These books are part of the postmodern bent for shock: that endless game of chicken in which some say How Gross and some say How Great and they blame each other for ending Western civilization. A standard shock-shortcut is to sidestep comfort and whatever else passes for privilege as you perform what used to be called slumming. Describing her first sex-club shift, Cody enthuses: "I felt like a common whore. It was the best day of my life." It's different when you pretty much have no choice, when you're like the immigrants and dropouts and addicts and self-cutters she met, the desperate ones who sold used tampons to customers and the sick-skinny one with an "acne-ravaged face" whose breasts "reminded me of the slack teats I'd gawked at in National Geographic as a kid."

Funny she should mention that. Cody's whole book evokes National Geographic, as do the others in this genre, and college porn courses too. They are excursions into dimly lit, dangerous terrain boasting its own secretive subculture. This new kind of sex book isn't about arousal, by a long shot. It's armchair anthropology and circus sideshow in a safely hipster guise. These well-educated authors with their fine orthodonture are your tour guides. Their predecessors launched imperialistic and politically incorrect incursions into rainforests, filming ring-nosed chiefs and pagan rites.

Lewis fixes her virtual lens on "Luis the Mexican Ass Man," a coprophiliac to whom she sells her thong. Cody lingers with "Shitty Booty Jeff" and a beaming "Buddhist businessman" who says, as she bounces on his lap: "When you talk about media criticism, it gives me an instant hard-on."

It's not that we aren't intrigued. Our comfort zones have sliding doors. As for why publishers risk six-figure advances on the idea that we want to know more and more about how men sound when they jerk off in small rooms with insincere strangers, perhaps it's because a certain class of writer and reader is now ashamed to approach sheer circuitry without a trendy/brainy/transgressive gloss. Reading plain old porn for pure pleasure is so ... what? Un-ironic? Lowlife? Naïve? The sole province of frat-boys and priests? If you call it lit or discourse, if your narrator is -- as Cody puts it -- a geek or punk-rawk, then with a sigh of relief you can still settle down to read about the old in-out-in-out.

Yeah, but the hate. These books are really less about sex than about loathing the customers. We see them depicted as groveling, foul-smelling, pathetic, perverted, laughable in their need and their loneliness. Cody mocks the "standard model short, pink Minnesota dick," the glaze-eyed losers who "point dumbly" and beg. Lewis, whose honesty makes hers the best in this trio, makes no bones about wanting to kill the men who ask her to help them ejaculate. "As I ran my hands over Steve's spine, I imagined myself stabbing him in the back. For maximum damage I'd have to work the knife in between the bumps of his spinal column. ... Fuck you is what I'm thinking. ... Stabby stabby."

Confronting another customer, she dreams of seizing a plastic fork and "stabbing his eyes out. I could almost hear his screams." To her eyes, an erect organ is "flushed and angry, like a pimple." Men "spewed their filth" and their "sexual feculence." Being touched by them was "like being brushed with dog shit."

Perhaps that's only natural when you're in the sex business -- and Lewis still is. But even if you're not, and even if you're not that into guys, all this I-feel-sexy swirling into a sour effluent stew is enough to make you not want to have intercourse again, ever, with anyone. It's as if someone up there planned this, nursing a secret agenda to make us all celibate. And as porn studies and stripper chic soak into real life -- from the Juniors racks at Target to Sociology 101A to the way you do your nails -- how long will it be before those visions of daggers and feculence and dialectics won't stop dancing in your head?

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See more stories tagged with: sex trade, sex lit, authors, sex books

Anneli Rufus is the author of several books, including "Party of One: The Loners' Manifesto."

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Absolutely Disgusting
Posted by: Intraspecto on Dec 16, 2006 2:36 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I will acknowledge that the sex trade has been going on forever, but do we really need to learn about this kind of crap? Women make the decision to work in the trade, just as the guy who walks into the door funds it. Both sides are to blame. I get the feeling that these women have just as many deep- seeded issues as their clients.

Disfunctionality does not stop by both parties perpetuating it, in reality it continues. Furthermore, while men willingly PAY for this, the women willingly TAKE THE MONEY. It is absurd to think that the women who really do this sort of thing as a business find their clients all that disgusting. They are just the other side of the same debased coin, and both are filth.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» hey, be careful on that high horse Posted by: Daniel Shays
» RE: hey, be careful on that high horse Posted by: BlueStateBitch
» absolutely Posted by: edith
» careful on that high horse Posted by: Krain61
» RE: Absolutely Disgusting Posted by: jasonchouinard
» Just for the record... Posted by: vangogh69
» DeapSEATED genius. Posted by: ArtemInox
» RE: DeapSEATED genius. Posted by: ArtemInox
» RE: Absolutely Disgusting Posted by: gaiaschild94
Not disgusting, but mildly irritating...
Posted by: RichietheC on Dec 16, 2006 4:04 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...that the women who voluntary do this and say that they feel empowered by it, have the arrogance, audacity, and hypocrisy to judge the people that they are voluntarily participating with; people who voluntarily pay for the women's time and contribute to the women's feeling of empowerment, and in some cases, have less control over their involvement in the whole process.

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academic sloth
Posted by: edith on Dec 16, 2006 4:48 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
streetwalkers, strippers, and personal confessions: all old, and this is just an update. (Nothing much changes, does it?}

The leap of the univeristies into the "sex trade"(Lucky Luciano must be having a laugh over what our PC society has made of one of the "rackets") is socially questionable.

What legislation, what medical advances, what counseling techniques for the vast majority of women have been initiated as the result of slumming profs, prostitutes are sex workers like you and me, and other equalization of the underside of life with everyday life? Years ago I remember some female friends enrolled in a female only class in sociology of women going to peep shows to do "research". My reaction was "ugh" then and it's "ugh" now.

Sure it's nice to be paid for one's sexual fantasies. So the sex trade studies profs like the slumming. But is this really where one needs to learn about social roles and women's status? Is this what donors and tazpayers channel funds to universities for?

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» RE: academic sloth Posted by: laoma
Next Hot Sellers: Life in Meat-Processing Plants
Posted by: Plenum on Dec 16, 2006 5:32 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Right... How about a year of reading about our food industries, chicken processing, hamburger or bologne processing, and hog-rendering plants - perhaps we need a year of exposés on our food systems. Seems ripe for it considering the e.coli, prions in meat products, and the recent Japanese exclusion of American beef.

Sex is fine, but hits too close to "home" - my crotch.

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» been there.... Posted by: brasilaron
» RE: been there.... Posted by: g's_r_fan
» RE: been there.... Posted by: Plexius
» RE: been there.... Posted by: Basenjis
If it makes you queasy, it's worth discussing further
Posted by: hagwind on Dec 16, 2006 5:51 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In a society as obsessed with sex and anti-sex as ours seems to be, I think there's plenty to be learned from the excesses and extremes -- mainly because the excesses and extremes aren't all that far from what plenty of people consider normal, respectable, etc., etc. (at least if you're heterosexually married). When something makes you queasy, there are two basic approaches: (1) deny it, ridicule it, or (if you have enough clout) shut it down; or (2) trace the queasiness (or full-blown fury) back to the source, which is generally lurking somewhere in your head, and try to understand it and how it got there.

Even among the politically and philosophically courageous, sex too often gets a bye. The bad guys are "anti-sex," therefore we're "pro-sex"; period, end of discussion, and anyone who says otherwise is a puritan or a Victorian.

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and in the meantime...
Posted by: montims on Dec 16, 2006 6:26 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Someone is slaughtering steetwalkers in England. Prostitution is not some kind of glamorous gig for bored American princesses - it is the only way for women with children to raise, or with a drug habit, in depressed areas, to make money. Shame on the men who need to degrade and be degraded in this way - if they weren't paying for it, society would have to help them. Now, society winks at the situation and is grateful that men and women do this - it relieves society of a burden. And the judges and police enjoy freebies...

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crazy life makes you want crazy things
Posted by: thistleblower on Dec 16, 2006 6:29 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
obviously these people need to work out problems in a far more visceral place than therapists would ever be willing to go. paying someone who do pretty much anything to you no doubt fills the bill for what they imagine will help heal them.

Conversely, it's just lust. I love the teaser for this article- it might "make you not want to have intercourse again, ever, with anyone-" what a typically elitist attitude. That's right, real life is sometimes ugly, and desire run rampant can make you do shocking things sometimes. This is what real people do, and how cowardly it would be to pontificate this doesn't happen to "normal" people.

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And no one...
Posted by: JoshuaLudd on Dec 16, 2006 6:53 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
... no one will address the men involved or the hatred these women express for them... except to condemn THEM for having any sexual needs and attempting to meet them in any way. Academe (temporarily... because its a great slumming kick for the middle class and over-educated) cares about why women are prostitutes and strippers and fetish models, etc... but no one cares why men feel the need to be Johns. We are addressing (to some degree) the sex industry, but make no mistake... we are addressing it almost wholly one-sidedly. If we were going to address this in any way as a cultural or economic subject we would be very very irresponsible to not address only the supply side and not th demand. But I guess when women are writing the books... and there is no male analog to feminism that isn't deemed sexist.. we will only get one side of the story and what little we get of the other side will often be slanted, hateful, or just plain incomplete.

But what would REALLY be interesting... a critique of capitalist economics comparing the reactions of sex workers to their profession and that of others in the mind-numbing drone jobs that even the sex workers won't take.

Also, I find it fascinating that society is so quick to embrace the sheen of porn and sex-work... books, classes, how to pole dance for your boyfriend, girls gone wild dvds, etc... While we still have huge problems as a society with actually having lasting and healthy sexual relationships. I suspect in some way it is a quick-fix for that problem... or the attempt at one.

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» RE: And no one... Posted by: Dennmark
» Well... there are some problems.. Posted by: JoshuaLudd
» RE: And no one... Posted by: jmooney
» RE: And no one... Posted by: morticia
» good post JoshuaLudd Posted by: off-the-radar 2
Marriages
Posted by: Glennk1949 on Dec 16, 2006 6:56 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
More then a small % of marriages are nothing more then "hooker" john relationships dressed up with a piece of paper. This is the really sick and degrading story at the center of society.

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» RE: Marriages Posted by: edith
» RE: As per your request... Posted by: Plexius
» RE: Marriages Posted by: monkeywrench
» RE: Marriages Posted by: laoma
» RE: Marriages Posted by: Landbaron
If you don't like it, don't read it.
Posted by: gersan on Dec 16, 2006 6:54 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That should be $#%^*@! obvious to anyone. And if you don't like sex work, then don't do it.

I would like to ask the people on this message board, including the author, why you consider making $200 an hour degrading?

I make only minimum wage, so why no concern about me? Isn't minimum wage degrading?

And did it ever occur to you soccer-mom-feminists that if prostitution was decriminalized, then prostitutes would have more police and societal protection from killers and rapists?

It is time to decriminalize prostitution, without delay and without exception.

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» I agree.. and disagree... Posted by: JoshuaLudd
More Feminist Trash
Posted by: faultroy on Dec 16, 2006 6:58 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's not enough that Feminists are exploiting both the work force and the social scene with their constant untrue tirades of inequality and sexual oppression, but now we have to listen to sex whores singing the same tunes--and of course both emphathize and commiserate.
Unbelievable... These low life feminist sluts sneer with mock disdain everwhile banking five figure--and some six figure annual incomes erstwhile claiming that financial oppression is making them do it.
Forty years ago we would have rounded them up and put them in some seedy red light district to ply their vulgar trade-- And hopefully to die quickly of syphillus.
But today, we have them teach courses at colleges to young nubile feminist nihilists seeking "free expression" and "greater truths."
Of course, to the average suburban Hausfrau, this is necessary to remove society's shackles and create "gender equality."
Let's not forget that it is not men that flock to the bookstores and purchase these sex laden sicko revelations. Men might like the action, but they sure do not want to commiserate or talk about it on talk shows.
These feminist panderers know where the action is: in the female mind.
Today's modern Feminists have created a Pandora's Box. They've painted themselves into a moral corner. Today--if you have a Vagina--you are a poor misunderstood, sexually used, sexually abused social underclass that has every right to use any and all means to seek and receive emotional, moral, financial and spirital reparation--regardless as to how wacky insincere and unjustified it may seem to others.
Hopefully intelligent inquiring women will see today's Feminist Movement for what it really is: a pathetic confused morass of feminine illogic, lazyness, confusion and resentment and come up with a new movement that will give them the dignity and equality they aspire to without lowering womens' values to the point where these vulgar societal lowlifes and leeches can find comfort and feel at home.

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» RE: fuck you cock sucker Posted by: Ghoulman
» RE: fuck you cock sucker Posted by: karma_ran_over_dogma
» RE: ^^^ wha??? Posted by: Ghoulman
» RE: ^^^ wha??? Posted by: karma_ran_over_dogma
» RE: fuck you cock sucker Posted by: dkstwin
» as mentioned previously.... Posted by: brasilaron
» RE: More Feminist Trash Posted by: hereandnow
» RE: Here! Here! Posted by: Plexius
» *snicker* nm Posted by: dkstwin
» RE: More Feminist Trash Posted by: katrivers64
» RE: Faultroy's poison psyche Posted by: carcinoid112
A Good Read
Posted by: SMcTigue on Dec 16, 2006 7:24 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
all this I-feel-sexy swirling into a sour effluent stew is enough to make you not want to have intercourse again, ever, with anyone.

I can't speak to the other books' effects, but I read Lewis' book, Indecent, and thought it was interesting and well-written. It didn't effect my sex life, but I have a long-term, wonderful partner (who doesn't like strip clubs)(especially now, once I read him a few choice selections)(see: page 103).

My interest in reading Indecent ultimately sprang from my concern for women who "choose" sex work. I want to know about that, because I've always had a gut feeling that no matter what they say, no woman would voluntarily do it. However, as a life-long feminist, I am also loathe to make (even well-intentioned) judgments on other women's decisions about their own lives. I mean, maybe it's not bad work compared to, say, a chicken deboning factory. But still I worry that the sex trade is different-- that the women going into it are pressured in ways not purely economic.

Lewis did seem to think this all through and states that sex work was an empowering choice for her. [Although, if you read her blog you know that at some point she was addicted to drugs, a fact not once mentioned in her book; this muddied the waters for me.] Her writing style is straightforward, her descriptions focused, and her hatred for her customers painfully palpable.

I think of everything she revealed, that this was the most illuminating part: what goes through her mind during her act. These same women all these men think are turned on, or (even more perversely unlikely) that they are turning on-- all these women for whom they have such deep disdain-- in turn disdain them. All this "lust" is actually a mutual hate fest! Humans are such ironic creatures.

I learned a lot from Lewis' book, including that, if I really want to help, I should agitate for job site/health regulations for these women and be less concerned about their career choices. I also learned that I want nothing to do with any man who frequents these places. Ick! Ick! ICK!

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» RE: A Good Read Posted by: Dennmark
» RE: A Good Read Posted by: AmyWW
» RE: A Good Read Posted by: SMcTigue
» RE: A Good Read Posted by: AmyWW
» RE: A Good Read Posted by: SMcTigue
» RE: Working at a job... Posted by: Plexius
» In my experience Posted by: no one special
» RE: A Good Read Posted by: Logic's Edge
» RE: A Good Read Posted by: SMcTigue
Prostitution probably saves marriages .... and the church
Posted by: veggiegrrrl on Dec 16, 2006 8:14 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Prostitution probably saves marriages .... and children from the church. Think about it. Perhaps married men who visit sex workers for "variety" are doing it to keep their families in tact. Perhaps they are choosing prostitutes instead of dumping their wives (and children) for the young perky secretary. Perhaps if more priests visited sex workers, there wouldn't be such a wave of child-abuse in the clergy. Perhaps if sex was more open in this society and less confined to some unrealistic model of monogamy connected to love, we would not be a nation strung out on Prozac. Perhaps, when our sexual energy was viewed as just another bodily need akin to eating, drinking, sleeping, and being warm, would be able to achieve greater things in life than spending so much time stressing over our relationships.

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» St. Hives Posted by: edith
» RE: St. Hives Posted by: veggiegrrrl
» RE: St. Hives Posted by: Plexius
Reduce Prejudice, Increase Discrimination
Posted by: Dennmark on Dec 16, 2006 8:20 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I urge all of us to resist the urge to build on some of the logically and morally untenable conclusions flying around this topic, and instead imagine the emergent (i.e. greater-than-the-sum-of-parts), additive societal functions performed by the sex industries. I have no deeply original conclusions to draw here just yet, just a few elementary what-ifs to propose.

Imagine some future legislation that served to drive the sex industries even further underground than they already are. Imagine what would happen to our collective awareness of these industries, to the circumstances and conditions of the men and women who occupy both sides of the “debased coin.”

Or imagine future laws which would totally legalize and protect both sides; or suppose there were medical advances that provided a cure –not treatment, a cure- for every known STD. What would happen to the populations of both consumers and producers in the sex trades?

Put aside the blaming invective, the fixating on causal factors -“Who came first [no pun intended], the john who offers the money, or the trick who takes it?”- and instead imagine the predictable outcomes of a society attempting to function without either the sex trades or a “slumming,” questioning academy to study them.

Edith asked whether studying the sex trades is “really where one needs to learn about social roles and women’s status,” to which I must simply reply: YES, OF COURSE, in addition to all the other areas of inquiry implied throughout this article, its broader background, and our commentary here.

How could it be otherwise?

What if society’s majorities (cultural, economic, educational, political, religious) were to conclude that the best way "to protect and to serve" the greater good would be to cast less light onto “this kind of crap”?

Which society would you rather live in: one that rejects or denies either or both sides of the world's oldest profession; or one that knows the real solution to a perceived problem is found through greater understanding, not prejudice.

[This is a huge, crazy leap in the scope of comments being made here so far, but] I find myself remembering my studies of Hindu culture and literature from long ago, where we read of the mythical figure Manjushri who, with his Flaming Sword of Discrimination, comes to cut you (and me) free from the prejudice induced by the mind, thus increasing our ability to discriminate (taken its original sense, mind you), by shattering the seemingly monolithic into the manifold.

A whole other angle that would be interesting to pursue is how these trades (and other phenomena such as violent crime) actually serve useful functions in terms of cultural ecology; that is, at the level of the human species interacting with both its natural and built environments, what biological import do these phenomena carry with them for the species as a whole? What pressures on the population (in terms of numbers, at whatever scale) arise as a result of repression or encouragement of these cultural practices?

Any theoretical eco, physical anthro or cultural geog folks out there care to chime in?

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What do we call fiction that comes from real life experiences? Fiction.
Posted by: Sojourner on Dec 16, 2006 8:40 AM   
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And what do we call reviewers who call fiction "anthropology" in order to justify their overly dramatized prose? Hacks.

Instead of buying into the fiction writers' colorful inner imaginations as fact, I expect a reviewer to provide a critique. Nah. Just as books like these earn million$, so do reviewers sympathies to such get them published. Both are laughing at us all the time, all the way to the bank, just like Lewis claims with her stories.

A pox on both your houses. We deserve better than evidence of your sell-out or incompetency.

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nice article A. Wonderful insight!
Posted by: Ghoulman on Dec 16, 2006 8:44 AM   
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I too can't stand the smug, I minered in women's studies, attitude college women have. These books reflet that culture I'm sure.

I recently lost my home because I made a pass at my roommate. She didn't think it was a big deal, but my landlord did (another woman of similair proclivities).

Of course, the slut had no problem sucking off the other roomie. He was prettier than me.

These women should learn the difference between industrial oppression and rationalizing thier lack of responsibility for others... like the men who love them (or try too, ... I'm sure some bit out there wants me to apologize for trying, if you get me).

Rememeber - to avoid sexual harrassment charges... be pretty.

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» More true than you realize Posted by: no one special
» RE: lol! Got me there! Posted by: Ghoulman
» Mercy.... Posted by: morticia
» lulz Posted by: krystal
» RE: lulz Posted by: Ghoulman
» RE: ^^^spelling nazi attack! Posted by: Ghoulman
» RE: ^^^spelling nazi attack! Posted by: carcinoid112
sex books
Posted by: nosylae on Dec 16, 2006 8:55 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This has to be one of the worst written articles I've read on Alternet in a long time. Half-written sentences and thoughts not fully formed do no justice to the topic at hand. And what a crappy title to this article! The author does not make the case that after reading these sex account books you would never want to have intercourse again. Crap.

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Eroticism is more than just rutting.
Posted by: monkeywrench on Dec 16, 2006 9:19 AM   
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Yes, sex-expose literature as described here does plumb (in every sense of the word) the depths of sexuality, from kinky customers and call-girls all the way down to the stink and the slime of sex on the street. Yes, this "literature" describes the visceral; but what it does not describe – in fact, what is missing from nearly all sex, at least here in America – is sensuality.

Before marriage, I dated for many years, and quite a number of the women I dated thought of themselves as very sexual, a few even promiscuous, and fewer than that, experimental. However, the number of those women who were truely sensual I could count on an amputee's fingers.

Sexuality here in America has grown (!) out of the Puritan procreative ethic, and thus completely ignores the psychologically erotic, the feeling of complete surrender to physical pleasure in all its forms and for its own sake. We know where everything fits and why; we know that we can screw like bunnies; we know a few ways to, quote, "get off." But what we often do not know, is how to FEEL. A great many of us are afraid of our own physicality. Oh, we go through the motions, but we're not paying attention.

(If you ever get the chance, stand scantily-clad in a tropical breeze, and think of nothing, nothing, but how it feels on your skin. The experience will be a very tiny example of what I am talking about. Sensuality is not just about sex – but sex is about sensuality.)

The psychologist Rollo May once said that in our culture, we have merely moved the fig leaf from the genitals to the face. I'll go him one further: we have moved that fig leaf from the genitals to the mind.

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» Eroticism Posted by: vangogh69
Next week: cunt farts and cum swapping on K Street
Posted by: fifthworld on Dec 16, 2006 9:46 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Come on, Don Hazen of Alternet, enough with the prurient crap. No doubt people are finding this RELEVANT to something, and are dissing those who are "squeamish", but put it on another site and stop taking up the space.

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I really don't think that this piece is necessary but I'll give you my
Posted by: yellow on Dec 16, 2006 9:53 AM   
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take anyhow. First of all, what consenting adults do may reflect political inequalities in the society but it is not as political as it is about personal choices. Sex industry workers face the same jobless recovery and low wage job market as the rest of us. They are able to make as much money an hour as a corporate attorney (and having no where near the education) sitting on some blokes hard on and cooing dirty talk in his ear because these opportunites exist in a free society.

Many feminists have told me that the sex industry is the only way for women to make a lot of money. Sorry!! I am an astute observer of reality and didn't fall off the vegetable cart yesterday. An increasing number of women are not only business and professional people but are entering into the formerly exclusive gentlemen's club (no pun intended) of Fortune 500 CEOs. Yes, that's right!! A lot of the big CEOs whose excessive perks and salaries loyal Alterneters have been understandably bitching about ad nauseum go to...WOMEN!! I was suprised to learn that even the super macho agribusiness giant Archer, Daniels, Midland, once entangled in price fixing scandles, is now headed by...a woman!!

And so it is that there exist personal choices. Sure a lot of uneducated women have kids and need to work in the sex industry. They can make $100.00 in 20 minutes dry humping some old suit for the five song lap dance special while many other unskilled women work 8 hours for the same money slinging hash at the local Denny's. Why do these women under similar pressures make such radically different choices? I can tell you society had shit to do with it!! It's about people's personal background. If you make a choice to earn $1000.00 a night do emotionally scaring sex work you chose to do it because the money was worth more than your emotional health to you when you made the decision. The women working in the checkout lines at Walmart or serving up eggs and ham at the local diner make shit money but they have inner peace. They can face friends and family. They don't need to lie and hide things from people. And they certainly don't end up with drug and booze habits in order to tolerate work.

Many feminists will say that many sex industry workers are being exploited by abusive boyfriends. Who chose these guys? Lots of women we are told chose such people because they are already emotionally scarred and thus do so as a way of relationship avoidence. They choose people they could never really love because to actually feel loving emotions becomes to painful for "damaged" people. This is sad. Often you hear such women decry the "nice guys" that friends and family want them to start dating as unsuitable "pleasers." This is real relationship fear.

There are women from poor countries who are used as sex slaves. This is another matter entirely. These women deserve to be helped and those responsible imprisoned forever. As far as women who choose the industry knowingly as a way to beat the system both financially and emotionally they will just have to get ready to become sane, mature, intelligent, and realistic enough to want to find a way out!!

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» RE: OK. Posted by: Plexius
» What a friggin crock Posted by: Madam Hatter
» RE: What a friggin crock Posted by: yellow
» RE: What a friggin crock Posted by: Madam Hatter
» RE: What a friggin crock Posted by: yellow
cant get it up?
Posted by: mister-wilson on Dec 16, 2006 10:06 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Wow Anneli Rufus, you're really progressive.

Judging by the comments to your article, I can see you've rallied the sympathetic side of American hearts and minds.

I'm sorry that these authors disrupted your fantasy and illusions about sex and that you can't get it up anymore. Were you similarly pissed after Fast Food Nation disrupted your love of mcDonalds? Why did you read their work? Why should I care that you did?

Alternet: I bet your subscriptions go through the roof with this crap. Congratulations. Remove me from your list...

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Great article
Posted by: alanapost on Dec 16, 2006 10:17 AM   
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This topic is interesting and relevant. I applaud the article's author and the publishing industry that is pushing a spotlight onto the not-at-all-sexy aspects of sex work.

Society's ills shouldn't be kept under wraps, nor the baby cast out with the bathwater just because a bunch of hipster academics get attention writing about it. The dose of reality is valuable no matter whom it comes from.

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Kobane and his rantings once took me there.
Posted by: Byrodude on Dec 16, 2006 10:48 AM   
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A couple of years ago that book Journals, the photocopied thoughts of our grunge man in the sky, came out in print. I remember reading that, still in high school, sex life starting in full swing, and reading some of his passages about rape and male chauvinist society and just killing myself because of it. At the time i was dating a hardcore feminist and occasionally she said some pretty anti-male things, and I remember being really offended by it, not because I thought that she was wrong, not at all, I remember feeling much too much truth behind it, but I did feel cheated because I was nothing like these ideas. I remember hating Kurdt for saying these things that made me so uncomfortable. I wanted to damn his thoughts, regardless of truth, because they made ME feel dirty, like in my 17 years of life, I had somehow contributed to the subjugation of females, which, was absolutely ludicrous, because my family is like the most pro-feminist, anti-discrimination family on the planet, but the very existence of this MALE agenda burned into my side. I've taken so many anti-racism, anti-oppression trainings at this point, they make my eyes glaze over, but when I read this it made me hate sex. It made me fear it, it made me LOATHE the very idea of it. And the girl I was dating, it distanced me from her. It shouldn't have. I should have taken her into my arms and told her all the ways that these ideas were different from me. I should have. But, being at the age where internalization is the lay of the land, I didn't. I believed that regardless of action all males were horrible, terrible human beings. It made me question my own validity and intention. I took others half cooked ideas and words and I turned them into truth. Now, five years later, I'm barely recovering from that. Such small things created so much tension and self loathing that it still smarts to read similar passages as the ones above. I do not blame those who have been scarred in life for their tales. I do not blame others for the fucking shitty ass cards they have been dealt. Do I think that men are pigs? Oh yes, definitely. Most men do not give a shit what women have to say, let alone how they feel about anything, they see them simply as sex-objects, and that is just wrong. But, at the same time when broad generalizations are made about men it really gets my kettle red hot. These women have chosen their life. I know that they have very few options, but there are alternatives. A very important thing to notice is that these women felt power. They took their position of sexuality and monetized it. (they didn't have to be there. they could have worked at McD.) The very process of being in their role let them legitimize their feelings of objectification. Just like the misunderstood senator writing a book about their time in office I feel books and memoirs like this are in this day and age, too much. Volumes have been said about feminism and female subjugation. Men still have very little idea to the extent to which sexism is still completely alive and well in our great Mother fucking You Es of Ey. But these women by feeling that guilt of power, by wishing death upon their clients, instead of picking up their bags and slagging warez at the local radioshack let themselves be punished. My girlfriend of 17 knew the difference, why can't they?

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» boo hoo, poor men! )': Posted by: alanapost
» RE: boo hoo, poor men! )': Posted by: Byrodude
opinions don't count
Posted by: Gregor on Dec 16, 2006 11:09 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We all have opinions. Healing takes place when society decides we don't need economic oppression. Healing people who have been wounded is a sensitive journey. If people do things for money, then we as a society need to make the playing field more equal--especially for those who are most oppressed. Take it out of the hands of the Holy Rollers and Mightier than Thou people. Take away the Military Industrial Complex and put that money back into our society...We could afford to help those who need it.

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Sex trade
Posted by: willymack on Dec 16, 2006 11:17 AM   
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Funny it should be called "adult" entertainment, when it should be called adolescent entertainment. What mature adult would throw away his money on overpriced drinks to see a woman dance about and occasionally fondle him? Isn't that what dates are all about? The whole thing is neither good nor bad-just silly.

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» RE: Sex trade Posted by: tap17x
I was wondering how long it would take for the subset of man-hating female intelligencia to....
Posted by: RJMills on Dec 16, 2006 11:23 AM   
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I was wondering how long it would take for the subset of man-hating female intelligencia to start ragging on the poor souls who buy attention and affection from women.

There used to be the kind of whore who sympathized and connected with the client. I guess she doesn't exist anymore?

Make no mistake - this is just pure railing against the "patriarchy" in another guise. Complete BS, but hey, at least they did some field work. The anecdotes should be good.

But yeah, wanting to kill a "client"? Sounds more like *you* have the problem.

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» welcome to the world of REVIEWS Posted by: alanapost
"Party of One: The Loners' Manifesto"
Posted by: karma_ran_over_dogma on Dec 16, 2006 12:08 PM   
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Rufus herself may have been already most of the way to never having intercourse again, since her own book is called "Party of One: The Loners' Manifesto."

But maybe it's non-loner sex workers contemptuous of their loner clients?

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Balance
Posted by: Donna_Darko on Dec 16, 2006 12:15 PM   
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Many novels and movies have described what prostitutes, hookers, strippers are like. Books describing what johns are like balance things out. I'm kind of curious anyway because we never hear about what johns are like.

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Ms. Lewis is sicker........
Posted by: tap17x on Dec 16, 2006 12:21 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
..........than almost any of the Johns she entertains. Their urges are relatively normal so long as they are harmless, but her urge to do injury is anything but normal. And why does she persist in meeting people she can't stand?

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Or
Posted by: Donna_Darko on Dec 16, 2006 12:30 PM   
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Prostitutes and strippers are degrade and portrayed in a negative light in porn by male directors. Why can't there be women-directed movies that portray johns from their point of view/in a negative light? Especially if the women directors do not set out to put the johns in a negative light but use documented accounts from prostitutes and strippers?

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» movies and documentaries Posted by: Donna_Darko
Eroticism is more than just rutting, pt. II.
Posted by: monkeywrench on Dec 16, 2006 12:37 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Interesting the situation concerning porn. Pornography, as it is produced today, may be part of the problem. You can certainly find anything you want there (and some things that NO ONE should want...), but almost none of it exhibits any sensuality. By contrast, I once saw a porn film (don't get the wrong idea; porn is not a hobby of mine. . .and I always type with both hands. . .), written and produced by a woman, that was soft-core, not particularly explicit – and sexy as all hell, 'way more than the "show-it-all-but-they-don't-care" crap that is all too common. Why was it so good? Because the people in it were COMPLETELY open and committed to the desire they felt (and good actors, too) – they were savoring each other in a very real way. It wasn't what they were doing (and/or not showing what they were doing); it was HOW they were doing it. By contrast, most porn becomes boring in a very short time, and so requires "upping the ante" to keep viewers' interest – leading to some acts that are violent, dangerous, risky for disease and/or resulting in physical damage (and, of course, kiddie porn should be punishible by life-sentences, or worse!).

[By the way, if you want to see some REAL pornography, watch the amputations and bloodletting and disembowelment and torture that appear in what are considered first-run movies, usually with "R" ratings, that your kids can see. In our culture, we can't wait to get to the next film that shows all manner of savagery and butchery; but sex, a natural and pleasurable act between two loving (or, at least lustful) people? Hide THAT in the shadows or make it titillating and base, and then make sure certain voluntary, enjoyable acts between two consenting adults are crimes, as well, for good measure. No wonder we're so f**ked up as a culture.]

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How to evaluate this piece?
Posted by: Michael in CA on Dec 16, 2006 1:18 PM   
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First, I'd like to compliment Byrodude for his post above. Hating a type, men, hating sex with men, and hating penises because of the actions of 'losers' or the workings of society, seem to me examples of an emotional attack that, while it might be an effective form of coping and struggling through another day, also exaggerates viciously and demonstrates a lack of compassion for decent men. I do not consider a particular woman a bitch unless she personally gives me reason to consider her one. Good policy, no? There's a recent book by a female author who masqueraded as a man, even dating women while undercover as a man. She found that women, by default, assumed a man to be scum until he slowly and laboriously (sadly?) proved himself to be otherwise. She said she hadn't understood that before, and that the experience softened her attitude toward men considerably and made her more sympathetic.

So, getting to the article. These women who deal with johns hate sex. (Presumably sex with men, so in hating sex we have found an anti-male sentiment.) Then Anneli Rufus writes about their books and appears to be of similar mind now: it is instructive to reread at her title and buzzline after finishing the article: 'Sex Workers' Lit Ruined My Sex Life' (possibly just B.S. intended to sell the article...I hope so sweetie!) and 'A host of new books by authors who entered the sex trade and wrote about it make you not want to have intercourse again, ever, with anyone.' Is that, fellow readers, the feeling you get from the article, or at least from the nebulous lessons of the sex workers? Because the feeling I get is: life can be difficult and there may be insufficient choices advertised for young women, while the choice of being a fuckdoll is certainly advertised too much (most corporate advertising). Sorry, but despite the reported problems, I still want to have healthy sex with my girlfriend. She is healthy in part because she wants sex, too. It energizes her and doesn't harm her, period. It's an open question whether reading sex workers' lit would make her less healthy, happy, put her physically in decline as an organism. Personally, I think she is strong enough to be horrified by the seedy tales but not transpose this disgust onto me, or onto the act of sex itself.

I decided based on the article that the authors in question most definitely chose to be sex workers, strippers, whatever. They are articulate and could have made money in another way, period. Maybe not another way that is as fashionable as what they've done. That their decision was likely influenced by this consideration is another part of the problem.

Ooh, six figure advances, working with Spielburg, big glitzy parties...wow, but yeah, life's tough and we hate sex and are very edgy.

Please.

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The ordeals of prostitutes, even in "tolerance zones"
Posted by: rclord on Dec 16, 2006 1:52 PM   
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How the Dutch protect their prostitutes:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6178793.stm

Prostitutes speak of their ordeals, even in "protected zones:"
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/6183491.stm

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sigh.
Posted by: renegadevolution on Dec 16, 2006 3:57 PM   
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I did not eve bother reading all the comments..a few were enough for me really. I'm a sexworker myself, and as bad as the customers can be on occasion, what's worse in my opinion is the way women (and men) in this line of business get steroetyped, it is assumed we all have terrible issues or pasts, and the way we are often treated in general. It's a job, a business, and lots of people engage in it, by choice. That does not make us subhuman or horribly flawed people.

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» RE: sigh. Posted by: moenbailey
» Wow... Posted by: vangogh69
Random thoughts
Posted by: wisewebwoman on Dec 16, 2006 4:08 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Interesting article, and as usual, even more interesting comments. I find it rather odd that supposedly intelligent women doing some research in the field, so to speak, would find themselves empowered by the fact that they turn on men. A telling comment on where women are today in self image and self esteem. As to money for sex, I write from personal experience in the field. For several years I managed an answering service at the weekend. Several clients were so-called "escort services" so I interacted with both the johns and the hookers. 60% of the hookers were impaired by some substance (alcohol, drugs) along with approximately 50% of the johns. Nowhere in the article or comments did I see this mentioned.
Also the loneliness of both the performers (some danced, some massaged, some went straight into the sex act itself) and the johns (many of whom volunteered to take me to dinner, pay me well for my time just to talk to them) were extremely lonely. Many of the hookers lived alone or with their kind, abandoned by their families of origin, often losing their children to the courts. Many had abusive pimps.
As to the men, some of course were into fetishes, often extremely innocent-sounding (I remember white panties featuring prominently), high heels, black stockings. Others talked of their wives being distant sexually, not willing to experiment, just wanted them to get it over with (lying back and thinking of England, no doubt). Many men did not know how to make a woman orgasm. And on.
It is surprising to me in this supposedly enlightened age that sex has been so demeaned and made "dirty" and not all by the so-called "fundies" either. In truth telling sessions with my platonic straight male friends I am continually astonished at how lonely they are, even in happy marriages, yearning for a touch that doesn't come or a sweet and special connection of a sensual nature.
Years ago I explored tantra and have experience tantric sex and believe me there is no going back to wham bang thank you ma'am after that. But it takes and enlightened twosome to achieve that and many are terrified of exposing themselves that much. I have to ask what is the point otherwise, if you are not willing to surrender to an incredible bliss that transports beyond this earthly domain?

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» RE: random thoughts Posted by: mombot
Does Anyone Seriously Think
Posted by: bcgirl125 on Dec 16, 2006 4:17 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That there would be ANY female sex workers if good employment was available for all women? Women earn about 75 cents on the dollar compared to what men earn. I don't think that many of the articulate, educated people who write articles for Alternet, or respond to them, have had the experience of trying to support themselves (or God forbid, their families as well) on minimum wage. Most of them are just pointy-headed types from the university ivory-tower set. A bit of real-life experience would shut them up really fast as to other people's "choices".

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» RE: Does Anyone Seriously Think Posted by: monkeywrench
» affairs Posted by: Donna_Darko
» RE: Does Anyone Seriously Think Posted by: Logic's Edge
» RE: Does Anyone Seriously Think Posted by: alanapost
» There'd be SOME... Posted by: medstudgeek
» customers_suck Posted by: Donna_Darko
» haha Posted by: Donna_Darko
» RE: Does Anyone Seriously Think Posted by: renegadevolution
Actually, I am beginning to believe the leaders we pick reflect us.....
Posted by: Prophit on Dec 16, 2006 4:47 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
.... its easier to point the finger outward, but remember there are 4 pointing back at us. He simply reflected the times that were changing. During Bush's administration (after the attempt on Reagans life) Bush ran the country as VP and that is why we had Iran Contra, wholesale shipping of our industries overseas, scamming by the Industrial military complex to the tune of billions etc. But again over the past 40 years our leaders have progressively gotten more sleezy and sociopathic and i think that just reflects our progressive decline into the slimey immoral morass of sex, greed, power and murder that our population is become.

Its us and we need to take a good hard look at that. I am truly beginning to believe that.

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Who's the patron saint of prostitutes?
Posted by: Landbaron on Dec 16, 2006 6:08 PM   
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Aileen Wournos....The detectives on tv always say 'no matter what your station in life we'll find justice', but the government "(us) are more interested in the "justice" part than the prevention of murders. That's capitalism, money over people.

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It's the streetwalkers vs the streetcleaners!
Posted by: Landbaron on Dec 16, 2006 6:11 PM   
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Until prostitution is legalized....streetcleaners (serial killers)

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Let be realalistic
Posted by: Khaidea on Dec 16, 2006 7:31 PM   
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It is rediculass to think that anybody can decifer the moral rights of anybody else. If the sex trade works for you as a John or a provider then so be it. If it does not then dont get involvrd in it. It is the goverment who causes all the problems in the industry because they force it into the underground where it becomes prone to the small percentage of preditors and people with bad busness practice.

Sex has always been about a transaction between men and women, and women in the most part although not always seem to be the ones selling while the men are ushally the buyers. Men will buy dinners and drinks and presents of all sorts to try and win some sex from women. In a lot if not most cases they will do all those things and still not get the sex that they are looking for. It became clear early in civilization that if all a person wanted was sex you could save alot of time and agrivation if a set price was set and you could recieve the sex you were looking for.

Men and women both like and enjoy sex, but because of the chemical make up of the genders they have different ways of distrubuting and gathering that sex. The need for sex and the reasons for haveing sex can sometimes be very different for men and women. If a man meets a women and buys flowers and takes her for dinner and drinks this does not mean he is going to get any sex, it is just a gamble that he has to take to try and get what he wants. A women can except all these gifts and not be obligated to give the man nothing in return. Allot of women thrive on excepting the gifts noing that the man wants sex but have no intention on ever giving up the coveted pussy that the men are looking for. (Sometimes this is reversed and it's the women trying to get the men) What is wrong with eliminating this game and having a sex trade to combat all the decietfulness that is ongoing in the act of trying to have some sex.
As long as a woman is not forced by another person to sell sex , it should be her right to set a price to give it away. If a man is willing to pay the price then that sounds like good bizz to me. If a women meets a man and decides that she wants to have sex with him for free, or for 3 drinks in a bar or a good dinner why is acepting cash any different.

There are alot of people who do not have the abillity to either talk a women into having sex with them or maybe the are not very good looking or maybe they are shy. Should they be exempt from have sex?
If a person can not get sex are we prepared to deal with the after effects of sexual fraustration? I belive this is were the real problems start. The sex trade offers a way for all to benifit, women that are interested can get financial security and earn a living with out having to be morgaged through the bank or other finacial institutions. Men are able to not only have the sex they were looking for but have the abillity to chose the sex trade worker that apeals to them.
Food for thought:
Working 8 - 10 hours a day for min. wage doing some meanial job that goes nowhere and being struck having to do it because you have no other means of making money as well as never making enough money to educate of move yourself into gettin a better job sound like prostitution to me. Lets get of our high horse and let those that feel the sex trade is for them be.

IF YOU ARE NOT INTO THE SEX TRADE, YOU DO NOT HAVE TO GET INVOLVED!!!!
NOBODY HAS THE RIGHT TO TELL CONSENTING ADULT WHAT IS RIGHT AND WRONG FOR THEM.

WAKE UP !!!!!!!!!

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» exploitative hierarchies Posted by: Donna_Darko
» RE: exploitative hierarchies Posted by: Byrodude
» RE: exploitative hierarchies Posted by: medstudgeek
» patriarchy Posted by: Donna_Darko
» You missed the boat as usual, MAD Posted by: Donna_Darko
» RE: exploitative hierarchies Posted by: ekipnrut
» nothing new under the sun Posted by: Donna_Darko
» RE: exploitative hierarchies Posted by: Landbaron
» Someone Posted by: Donna_Darko
» RE: Someone Posted by: Landbaron
» Maybe Posted by: Donna_Darko
» RE: Maybe Posted by: Landbaron
» you reap what you sow Posted by: Donna_Darko
» RE: you reap what you sow Posted by: Landbaron
» troll Posted by: Donna_Darko
» RE: troll Posted by: Landbaron
» women Posted by: Donna_Darko
» RE: women Posted by: Landbaron
It's "enough to make you . . .
Posted by: yesman on Dec 16, 2006 10:58 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
. . . not want to have intercourse again, ever, with anyone." Well, not really. I do want to have intercourse again with my partner, with whom I share a mutually-committed monogamous relationship. What this DOES make me not ever want to do again is read anything by or about anyone who calls themselves a "feminist" anymore. If this is what feminism has come to, then screw it (so to speak).

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» Tell Me Another One Posted by: SMcTigue
Oh, good lord.
Posted by: mmeetoilenoir on Dec 17, 2006 3:49 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I used to be both a stripper and a dominatrix. Yes, I'm depressive. Yes, I had some family issues...but who doesn't? No, I'm not some downtrodden ignoramus that you can coo over, followed by a lot of self-congratulatory back patting over your "tolerance".

I never, NEVER hated any of the guys (and girls) that came to my establishments. In fact, some people were awesome. And, GASP!, some of the guys were so hot that I got turned on and wanted to jump them. All of us girls got along well, there were only a couple that did drugs...and we stayed away from them.

You don't really start to hate your job unless you're working someplace that doesn't care a fig for the women that work there. My strip club had really caring and vigilant guards that would chuck anyone out the door if they so much as made a nasty comment. The place was small, and everyone knew everyone else. The dungeon I worked with was really nice, comfortable, had a full kitchen, TVs, and was packed with some great women that are still my friends to this day.

The guys were smart. We laughed at the ones that danced around with panties on thier heads, marveled at some of the things we saw, and had a pretty good time, for the most part. If you like it, it's fun. Yeah, I said it...FUN. I had a hilarious session or two that I still love to tell stories about, to this day.

All I'm saying is that 1) these ladies who think that they're oh-so-liberated and quaint by dabbling in the trades...please, find another hobby, and 2) I don't know about escorting or anything, but I do know that that's incredibly unsafe; that's another mindset altogether from an exotic dancer or domme (you DO NOT HAVE SEX in either of those circumstances, unless you're crooked and want to get arrested, or you're just in it to get what you can, no matter what the cost).

Once again, I have to shake my head at the amount of assumptions on this site! Gah, where the hell do you get off, thinking that we're all whores and such? What is wrong with YOU that you need to brand us with such evil and demeaning terms?

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» you never had sex with clients Posted by: Donna_Darko
» no choices Posted by: Donna_Darko
Trafficking in Women and Children: Not a CHOICE
Posted by: sofla100 on Dec 17, 2006 7:07 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Much is said about women choosing to work in the "sex industry" and this is true to a degree for citizens in countries like the USA or Western Europe. But, beneath the surface, and this article does not address it, is a vast network of girls and women "traded" for use in pornography and prostitution. The girls can be as little as 3 years old when they are raped and used in child pornography. The trafficking in women and children is vast and it fuels much of internet pornography. Much of it is also controlled by organized crime. So, the question is not if some 19 year old middle class American women wants to make a little more money by working as a stripper. It is a question of the thousands held against their will, needed for the booming sex industry of the internet and prostitution.

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Economic inequality WITHIN sexwork?
Posted by: medstudgeek on Dec 17, 2006 7:38 AM   
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You know, I keep hearing about women who make loads of money from sexwork and find it empowering, and I also keep hearing about exploited immigrants held prisoner against their will, so I'm wondering: how much does sexwork vary in pay and working conditions? Are there high-priced call girls who get taken to nice restaurants and sex slaves in nastier parts of the city? Can anyone say?

Shoot, lawyers range from six-figure partners in corporate law firms to amateur ambulance chasers trying to get by, so why not another profession people don't resepct?

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» RE: conomic inequality WITHIN sexwork? Posted by: yourshamefreezone
I can't believe this nonsense.
Posted by: ann83 on Dec 17, 2006 8:01 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As a proper leftist, I pour over the alternet website every single day, and think its political and economic analysis of society, particularly american society, is fantastic. However, when I read this article, I was nearly crying. These so-called "liberals" and/or "socialists," those who claim never to judge others and to fight for the underdog have completely misrepresented and insulted those who work in the sex industry. I wasn't shocked when I read the article, as I know many middle class academics are insulted by the recent amount of research into the sex industry, but I was shocked at the comments. I was shocked at the amount of assumptions made about sex workers. I believe someone even used the phrase "sex worker sluts," which absolutely astounds me. Individuals have a multitude of reasons for going into the sex industry, which range from interest, to research, to lack of options, to lack of lucrative options, to just having a second job in addition to your low paying rewarding job to pay your rent (yes, I fall into that camp). Why judge? The sex industry is (and these comments have confirmed this fact) one of, if not the most stigmatized professions in this country. And isn't it time to stop that? I do also want to point out, that despite the lack of support from various social movements (labor, feminist, HIV/AIDS etc.) sex workers have managed to organize, albeit more so internationally than in the United States. Hopefully 20 years from now this stigma will end.

On top off that, there are two serial killers currently preying on street sex workers.

I want everyone who reads this to go to www.spreadmagazine.org.

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» Then don't believe it Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: Then don't believe it Posted by: ann83
» RE: Then don't believe it Posted by: YogiBear
low-life feminist sluts
Posted by: ann83 on Dec 17, 2006 8:02 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Sorry, that was the correct phrase.

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titillating, but now what?
Posted by: blogcore on Dec 17, 2006 8:19 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Thank you Anneli Rufus!

Last night I wrote an email to Robyn Few, the Sex Worker activist in Berkeley, and pointed out to her that Mike Jones, Ted Haggard's "masseur"/escort, just got a book deal. Will Robyn write a book? Will she be as good a writer as Anneli Rufus? I'm not a sex worker, but I have met Robyn, and I have also met MP Tim Barnett of NZ, who wrote NZ's law decriminalizing consensual adult prostitution. This morning there will be church services in Oakland and San Francisco remembering sex workers who have been murdered. The very mainstream yellow pages runs ads for "entertainers", "escorts", etc. The stock exchange profits from the sex trade. Clearly, it's complicated. If anyone is interested, my linkfarm/essay/blog about a lot of these issues, from the point of view of a nonsexual massage therapist "punk rock" "geek", is at massagewell.com

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Prostitution is what you get when you put sex in a box.
Posted by: nzo on Dec 17, 2006 8:37 AM   
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Prostitution is what you get when you put sex in a box tied up with barbed wire and filled with injunctions, contradictions, superstitions and lies. When you create and sustain that kind of a society what did you expect? So stop whinging or change.

And I have news for you. Prostitutes stink too. Every last one of them. Just like everyone else. That's why they cover themselves with all this stink-away crap that keeps the perfume industry rolling.

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The difference between a wife and a hooker is that you'll pay 100 times more for the wife.
Posted by: Landbaron on Dec 17, 2006 10:43 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A woman never really falls in love. She is incapable of such an emotion, but she will use the love of a man to trap and destroy him. Men are sentimental creatures who desire love. Women simply don't care about love-or men. They are devoid of such silly emotions. But, they will feign such emotions in order to get a man to commit himself to her in the most devastating, castrating relationship known: MARRAIGE.

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» Yeah, but what about the US? Posted by: medstudgeek
» RE: Yeah, but what about the US? Posted by: Donna_Darko
» Maybe Posted by: Donna_Darko
» RE: Maybe Posted by: yellow
» I'm Posted by: Donna_Darko
» Sorry Posted by: Donna_Darko
» New York Times October 1, 1986 Posted by: Donna_Darko
» Besides Posted by: Donna_Darko
sex is irrelevant
Posted by: radical_blonde on Dec 17, 2006 11:20 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Of course academics and politicos shouldn't waste their time on anything as frivolous as sex. Sex and reproduction have very little effect on any of us. Prostitution is just a bit of fun! It doesn't have any harmful effects, except on a bunch of sluts who don't matter anyway. Oh, and the wives who may get infected with HIV, but if they were better in bed their husbands wouldn't be tempted by whores so it's really their fault.

As we know, women have always been free to choose their sexual partners, and men never try to control women's sexuality and reproductive power, so why all the fuss? The sexual politics of who is a good woman (wife/mother - sexually controlled by a man) and a bad woman (whore, slut, bitch) doesn't affect anyone's life! So a few million cases of genital mutilation, stoning for adultery and witch burning happen; most women are just as free as men to express their sexuality.

After all, men don't mind when their wives, sisters and mothers have lovers on the side. The double standard is dead! It's all fine, except for all those "honor" murders of women by male family members. Hardly anyone is affected by sexual violence, at least not in civilized places like Europe where only one in three women gets abused in her lifetime.

I can't imagine why anyone would insist on studying something as silly as sex when there are real issues to discuss like wages and health care. Those crazy feminists must just need to get laid.

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» RE: sex is irrelevant Posted by: Landbaron
» RE: sex is irrelevant Posted by: ekipnrut
» RE: sex is irrelevant Posted by: aahb21
» RE: sex is irrelevant Posted by: yellow
Here to Stay
Posted by: HeidiLockwood on Dec 17, 2006 1:55 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
My best guess is that the sex-trade isn't going away, no matter what anyone says or does.

For those on the outside, one may be interested in the subject for his/her own reasons, or not. Some people have other things to think about other than whether or not other people have some sort of interest in the subject.

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The Money Box
Posted by: Krain61 on Dec 17, 2006 9:24 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They know it's a Gold mine down there and they use it

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I heard on NPR...
Posted by: Plexius on Dec 18, 2006 7:44 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
that women think about sex once a day and men think about it every 52 seconds (on average). If men didn't have such intense, constant cravings, most of the sex trade would not exist. And male/female relationships would be vastly different. I guess men would then, pretty much, hold all the cards, all the time.

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Perhaps final word on this issue
Posted by: davmills on Dec 18, 2006 1:21 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Prostitution and its variants have been around since the Old Testament. Whatever anyone has to say about it, it will be around forever. It's usually the women, and perhaps some men, who work the street (as has just happened in England) who are the most vulnerable. Make it safer for all by decriminalizing it as they've done in Holland and other countries. Keeping it illegal just maintains the danger and the criminality of something that, for the most part, is done in private between consenting adults--something that is no one's business but theirs.

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Not Feminist?
Posted by: VHunter on Dec 19, 2006 1:59 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is classic feminist discharge.

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The Sex Industry Heirarchy
Posted by: catawampus on Dec 19, 2006 6:40 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You know, one of the problems I find frustrating about conversations on the sex industry is that we lump trafficking, strippers, streetwalkers, porn stars, phone sex operators, domintrixes, hustlers, etc. into the same category. Sure they have relationships to each other, but let's acknowledge their differences.

How do we talk about the crackwhore and grad school dominatrix at the same time? Should we?

There is serious value in hearing more perspectives from folks working in an industry as contentious at the sex industry. The Hooker With A Heart of Gold (or stripper that empathises with her clients as someone above mentioned) deserves to be exposed as the myth it is. Just as the Crackwhore Having Babies to Get Welfare Myth is. Just as the Virgin/Slut myth is.

The more anecdotal and quantitative research we have on the sex industry the better we can create public policy around it to protect everyone involved.

While I have friends that have done just about everything in the sex trade (and, to be honest, I engage with only a few close ones about these contentious topics - I mean, hey, I don't want everyone's judgement on what I do for a living), it seems that it takes a lot of trading sex to get all the way to a dominatrix. If you can pay $200 to have your balls stomped on for an hour, chances are you have done a hell of a lot more things for a hell of a lot less.

And the way gay men experience the sex trade is totally different. Of course, an intricate industry with its own hierarchy, but the way gay men relate to sex trade is so historically different (I'm taking the obvious lack of gender dynamics for granted here).

I do think that the sex trade does not bring out the best in workers and clients - most industries based on crazy power inequity rarely do (wait, would that be capitalism? But I conflate).

Good work environments make ALL the difference in the world. If I feel valued by my colleagues, have support networks that also validate me, have a vision (and roadmap) for what kind of life I want to live, what a client thinks about me does not matter as much. That's not industry specific. As evidenced by many of the replies above.

Thanks for all of the perspectives on this loaded topic. Talk is always good.

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Suburban Whores
Posted by: Revolutionary on Dec 30, 2006 1:30 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I used to live in a "prestige zip code" chok full of women who fall apart when the husbands they hate leave them, simply because they are terrified of having to support themselves. This is just as much whoring as anything that happens on the back streets of downtown. Sleeping with one man you hate for money is just as bad and certainly less honest having a larger customer base. Either way the women are debased by a culture that imposes social disabilities on women to force them in to dependance on men.

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WARNING: THE BLUE LINK POSTS THAT FOLLOW ARE TROJAN...
Posted by: Plexius on Dec 31, 2006 8:01 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
HORSES. They will infect your computer.

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WARNING: THE BLUE LINK POSTS THAT FOLLOW THIS POSTING
Posted by: Plexius on Dec 31, 2006 8:03 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
ARE TROJAN HORSES. They will infect your computer.

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it's really about how cool i am
Posted by: tarababy on Dec 31, 2006 11:30 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
based on their obviously complete self-infatuation and edgy-trendy lifestyle choices, most of these writers appear to be that sort of desperately aggressive, jewish-intellectual poser-hipster who's modeled after the sex & the city archetypes.
sistahs- you aren't cool just because you stripped a few times, or sucked a dick for money, all the while knowing
that it was only fodder for a marketing strategy.
in fact, you're an embarrassment.
no one is really taken aback (which is the point, right?) by your "look at how cool and dangerous i am- and now i "HAVE A BOOK OUT TO PROVE IT, MA!" schtick.
try volunteering at a children's cancer ward- then we can talk about heroics.

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