Home
Archive
Newsletters
Video
Blogs
Discuss
About
Search
Donate
Advertise

The Christian Right Goes Back to Bible Boot Camp

By Alexander Zaitchik, AlterNet. Posted December 4, 2006.


After a study revealed that less than 10 percent of evangelicals were Bible literate, James Dobson's Focus on the Family is desperately taking a two-day multimedia Bible boot camp on the road, selling "truth" for $179 a seat.
120406story
Back to Bible School

Share and save this post:

      

      

Share on Facebook       

AlterNet Social Networks:
follow us on twitter
find us on Facebook

In Special Coverage

Belief:
Is Blind Faith in God and the Bible a Modern Invention?
Devilstower

Corporate Accountability and WorkPlace:
What Can the Morass of the 1970s Tell Us About the Current Economic Crisis?
Alejandro Reuss

DrugReporter:
Why Are We Locking Up Traumatized Veterans for Their Addictions Instead of Offering Them Treatment?
Penny Coleman

Environment:
Why Max Baucus' 'No' Vote on the Climate Bill May Really Help Its Passage
Jeff Mcmahon

Food:
Soda Helps Make Americans Unhealthy and Fat -- Will Soda Tax Prevail Despite Pushback by Beverage Industry?
Christine Spolar, Joseph Eaton

Health and Wellness:
Does the House Bill's Public Option Kill Off the Senate's?
Booman

Immigration:
Immigrants and Health-Care: What Part of LEGAL Doesn't Washington Understand?
Marielena Hincapié

Media and Technology:
Glenn Beck, Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh Stoking GOP Civil War
Eric Boehlert

Movie Mix:
The Yes Men: Pranksters Out to Fix the World
Mark Engler

Politics:
What Obama Is Up Against in His Own Branch of Government
Russ Baker

Reproductive Justice and Gender:
"Precious" Star Claims the Spotlight
Emily Wilson

Rights and Liberties:
Ugly Truth: Most U.S. Kids Sentenced to Die In Prison Are Black
Liliana Segura

Sex and Relationships:
9 Silly Things People Say When They Hear You Don't Want Kids (And Ways to Counter Them)
Liz Langley

Take Action:
G-20 Meetings: Nothing Much Happened in the Suites, and There Was Too Much Punch in the Streets
Laura Flanders

Water:
Radioactive Wastewater in New York Raises More Concerns About Oil Drilling
Abrahm Lustgarten

World:
Afghanistan Is Worse Off Than Ever, Thanks to the Sham Army We're Propping Up
Chris Hedges

More stories by Alexander Zaitchik

Advertisement
Upcoming AlterNet stories on Digg

It's been a rough season for the Christian right. Even for an eschatological movement, these are dark days. First came former Deputy Director of the Office of Faith-Based and Community Initiatives David Kuo's public admission that evangelicals were often derided as "nuts" and "goofy" within the inner sanctums of the Bush administration. Then, weeks before losing their shotgun seat in the 109th Congress, the booming voice of the National Association of Evangelicals, Ted Haggard, was silenced in a scandal involving a gay hooker, massage oils, methamphetamine, and a string of Denver hotel rooms booked under false names.

But even before all that hit the fundamentalist fan, the movement was contending with a quieter, more systemic crisis: functional Biblical illiteracy among the flock. That's right, religious conservatives aren't so religious, after all.

This alarm was sounded by George Barna, chief pollster and CEO of the Barna Group, a Ventura, Calif.-based Christian polling and communications outfit. In August of 2005, Barna reported that less than ten percent of born-again Christians held what he termed a "Biblical worldview." Based on his survey, very few grasped the nuances of scripture or believed in "Absolute Truth" any more than their secular counterparts; the "Body of Christ" had been infected with the virus of relativism, a wasting disease.

"Although most people own a Bible and know some of its content," reported Barna, "our research found that most [professed evangelicals] have little idea how to integrate core biblical principles to form a unified and meaningful response to the challenges and opportunities of life."

The prolific Barna dashed off a book in response to this worrying discovery. Entitled "Think Like Jesus" -- and marketed as "one of those books that really ticks off Satan" -- it quickly sold out in Barna's online bookstore. A second edition of "Think Like Jesus" soon went to press to further aggravate the Lord of Darkness.

Barna's poll and subsequent call to think like Jesus caught the attention of Dr. James Dobson, patriarch of the two most important religious right groups, the $140-million-a-year Focus on the Family, and its more politically minded spin-off, the D.C.-based Family Research Council. Dobson called Barna's report on Christian America's disappearing Biblical worldview "very distressing news" and felt that it warranted a muscular response, one befitting the massive resources at his disposal. The result is Focus on the Family's "The Truth Project: An In-Depth Christian Worldview Experience," a slick and intensive two-day training conference that kicked-off a North American tour last month at a megachurch outside Atlanta. It has since visited sell-out audiences in six cities; there are already 10 events planned for 2007.

Partly because the testimonials sound so scripted -- "The presentation in Boston was wonderful and definitely worth my 12 hour round-trip drive!" -- it's hard to say if The Truth Project is really the transformative Christian experience Focus claims it to be. It is, however, an open window into how the country's largest religious right group sees the world -- and how it would like everyone else to see it. The Truth Project is also a testament to the extent to which the religious right leadership understands it is fighting a desperate and rearguard culture war. How can an Army of Light be expected to conquer Satan when the troops not only march out of step, but can't even clean or load their religious rifles? The training conferences are a natural activity for conservative Christian activists at the dawn of the 110th Congress: a retreat from the front lines to regroup and retrain infantry who the generals fear are going AWOL, even as they maintain nominally Christian identities.

Toward this end, Focus on the Family has developed what is essentially a two-day multimedia Bible boot camp, with more than a whiff of a Holiday Inn get-rich-quick seminar. Held in churches instead of hotels, the seminars explain how to attain "Truth," not financial independence. This Truth comes in the form of a neatly packaged immutable Christian worldview to be taken home and shared with your neighbors. Attendees also receive a 12-DVD set of the lectures; meals are not provided.

The seminar is scripted and presented by Dr. Del Tackett, an energetic yet predictably dull senior executive at Focus on the Family and an adjunct professor at New Geneva Theological Seminary and Summit Ministries. Before joining Focus, Tackett spent 20 years in the Air Force and was director of technical planning for George H. W. Bush's National Security Council. The Truth Project website describes him as a "visionary and a teacher."

Sitting on stage next to Tackett during the length of the seminar is a serious question of adolescent construction: "Do you really believe that what you believe is really real?"

Or, as a secular humanist might put it: In your heart of hearts, do you guys honestly buy, or even understand, all this Bible crap?

Barna and Dobson are convinced that the vast majority of evangelicals do not, a fact with spiritual and political implications.

"Only by understanding the immutable truth claims of Christ," says Dobson in The Truth Project's promotional video, can Christians successfully defend against the "postmodern worldview" in which "God does not exist," "the family is defined as any circle of love," and "homosexuality is the moral equivalent of heterosexuality."

"If we capture and embrace more of God's worldview and trust it with unwavering faith," says Dobson, "then we begin to ... form the appropriate responses to questions on abortion, same-sex marriage, cloning, stem-cell research and even media choices." But the real prize is bigger than any one issue. By fully embracing Truth, religious conservatives can "recapture Western Civilization," which they "invented but have lost."

The questions that will ultimately lead to recapturing the flag of civilization is born-again boilerplate: Is absolute truth defined by the Bible? Did Jesus Christ live a sinless life? Is God the all-powerful and all-knowing Creator of the universe, and does He still rule it today? Is Satan real?

Over the course of his 12 lectures, Del Tackett explains that we know the answers to be yes. We know because the Bible tells us so. In fact, the Bible tells us everything we could ever want to know -- if only we read it correctly. Most of The Truth Project thus involves parsing Scripture and teasing out its life lessons for 21st-century Christians. This text analysis is often ridiculous, with Tackett probing the possible double meanings of Biblical diction, as if the King James Bible had been transcribed directly from the mouth of God, and was not an artistic creation of a team of 17th-century scholars in Oxford and Cambridge.

If the seminar's content is vapid, The Truth Project is still no ordinary Sunday school slide show. No corners were cut in production of the video clips that accompany the lectures. With its nature montages and flashy editing, The Truth Project includes the first religious films ready for IMAX distribution.

Even more striking than the production values, though, is how little knowledge Tackett assumes on the part of his committed born-again audience. Even John 3:16 is reviewed as if for the first time. Once they are explained, Tackett holds basic Biblical Truths up against the Lies of secular culture and the lying liars who tell them. His bete noir throughout is Carl Sagan, the legendary poster-boy of humanism and scientism. Tackett is so obsessed with Sagan that he not only shares an affinity for turtlenecks and corduroy sports jackets, but one suspects he imagines himself to be Sagan's God-fearing equivalent, and the Truth Project his answer to Cosmos, Sagan's famous book and PBS series. Clips from Cosmos are followed by bitter rebuttals from Tackett, who bristles at Sagan's contention that the earth is made of "star stuff," spinning without much purpose in a universe lacking an all-knowing Creator offering redemption through acceptance of his carpenter son. Alongside Sagan, other recurring villains include Charles Darwin and John Dewey.

In a lecture entitled "The State," Tackett explains the proper relationship between ecclesiastical and earthly authority, leaning heavily on the Book of Romans. ("Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind," 12:2.) After drawing a circle with the words God, King and Citizens in the center, Tackett swerves into a rambling exegesis of the books of Daniel and Samuel. When he finally returns to his triangle (God-King-Citizens) inside the circle, he is dragging coils of disjointed scripture that he says prove the King is never in charge -- "God is in charge." And when the King forgets that God is in charge? Then "the state becomes the most monstrous of spheres" and "mass graves" cannot be far behind. To back this up, Tackett supplements the Bible with quotes from the Black Book of Communism and an 1828 edition of Webster's dictionary, which defines politics as that realm dealing with "ethics and morals."

The Bible also contains a few policy recommendations. Tackett points to a mention of a 10 percent tax in the Old Testament, seeing in this a divine recommendation for a flat tax. Apparently Steve Forbes had a direct line in to God, after all. Tackett also locates Biblical grounds for opposing the welfare state and the rise of supranational institutions. It goes without saying that all "freakish sexual behavior," including homosexuality, is to be resisted with the utmost strenuousness.

Tackett blames the sad state of the nation on a long and vicious secular assault on America's Christian foundations by men like Dewey and Sagan. The good news is that America can once again reflect the Godliness of its founders, if only we will let it.

"The people who came here," explains Tackett, "came with a mature and comprehensive Biblical worldview." He gushes over how, as late as the early 20th century, American schoolchildren learned their catechisms along with their multiplication tables. He also provides an orgy of selective quotation from America's overwhelmingly Deist founding fathers, as well as genuinely Christian revolutionary B-listers like Benjamin Rush and Noah Webster. But Tackett can never quite bring himself to describe even the firebrand Sam Adams as a "revolutionary"; all are simply "founders." Tom Paine does not appear anywhere in this history lecture, entitled, "The American Understanding."

If America has turned away from its blessed orgins in Christ, it is because we have forgotten the Bible -- that all-encompassing, simplifying book. It is because we have lost our Biblical worldview, in fact, that we even need things like modern laws at all. "We've had to modify and amend the Constitution," says Tackett, incredibly, "because we're no longer governed internally."

"When we throw God out, our laws become waste paper," he continues. Christianity is the foundation of this country, not the Constitution."

That's Focus on the Family politics in a nutshell: Pilgrims without the Progress.

Perhaps the most tortured and convoluted lecture is the one entitled "Labor," encapsulating society and the economy. Just as Tackett cannot bring himself to utter the word "revolution" in discussing the American Revolution, he also never says "capitalism" when discussing the American economy and its heavily degraded public sphere, as if the hypersexualized culture he so loathes has no relation to barrage advertising or an economy based on mass gratuitous consumption. The Truth Project devotes much energy to warnings about the greedy state becoming a monster, but the modern corporation makes not even the briefest cameo. Except for the "freakish" sex it permits and the Satanic trappings of the welfare state, we live in a "glorious social system [that] God has given us."

Whatever the lecture on labor lacks in intellectual seriousness, it more than makes up for in humor. Tackett, a former manager at Kaman Sciences Corp. and ITT Industries, sees in his fellow Christians a management wet dream. Just as the book of Genesis begins with God hard at work -- "forming out of the ground all the beasts of the field and all the birds of the air" -- Tackett believes a Biblical worldview should lead naturally to a positive, can-do, union-free work ethic.

After explaining the Biblical injunction to work and enjoy it, he imagines two businessmen having lunch. One says to the other: "I wish I could hire a Christian! They are so joyful, creative, excited and trustworthy! When I leave the office, they work even harder!"
Why, they're just like magical minimum-wage worker elves!

And however meager the fruits of their joyful Christian labor, teaches Tackett, evangelicals should avoid class envy or joining in demands for "redistribution rights." They should also avoid buying pirated CDs. It's all in the Bible, you see, the only book you'll ever need. But it is a book that can be supplemented on occasion. Say, by a set of The Truth Project DVDs. But unlike George Barna's "Think Like Jesus," they are not available in stores.

Digg!    Share on facebook   submit to reddit    Bookmark on Delicious   Stumble This  

See more stories tagged with: christian, religion, conservatives, evangelical, bible

Alexander Zaitchik is a journalist in Washington, D.C.

Liked this story? Get top stories in your inbox each week from AlterNet! Sign up now »


Advertisement
Advertisement

 

Comments Turn comments off sitewide Give us feedback »
Comments closed.
The comments for this story have been closed. Thank you to everyone who participated.
View:
It's nice to read the "Bible": WHICH ONE?????????
Posted by: edith on Dec 4, 2006 12:59 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
so the bible literalists want to understand the "bible". they have a problem?

"Although most people own a Bible and know some of its content," reported Barna, "our research found that most [professed evangelicals] have little idea how to integrate core biblical principles to form a unified and meaningful response to the challenges and opportunities of life."

Well higher order thinking, which religious Jewish and Catholic scholars have done for over 2,000 years might be a tad much for the home schooled good ol boys to do, but an even greater challenge will be WHAT The HELL BIBLE WILL THEY READ? Jewish, Muslim and Christian scholars with such accessories as PHds and years of training at seminaries at which original texts and even documents are analyzed, are fluent in the languages of the Bible. Ya mean that ain't Suthern Englush?????????

No Ham Boy it ain't. Try Aramaic(hebrew dilaect of Rapper J of Nazareth, Hebrew(will that be Temple or Street Variety on your Fries?, Greek(Alexandran or Mainland? and Latin(Oh gimme that big hard Vulgate).

What 's a christian to do? Study the Bible(Old or New, Gnostic included or Not) for decades like some dirty ol Rabbi in williamsburg or some irish drunkmonk in Rome?

It could drive a Man to the Flesh of Tempation.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» The King James of course Posted by: Swatopluk
» King James was a homo! Posted by: karma_ran_over_dogma
» RE: King James was a homo! Posted by: cosmicgold
» RE: King James was a homo! Posted by: karma_ran_over_dogma
» RE: What does it matter? Ask any evangelical. nm Posted by: karma_ran_over_dogma
» My bad... Posted by: moflard
» Get flocked Posted by: HeroesAll
» RE: Get flocked Posted by: moflard
confirmation
Posted by: rsaxto on Dec 4, 2006 1:04 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Thanks for confirmation that fundamentalist believers are created primarily by brainwashing. If most believers don't even read most of their primary text then they are at the mercy of whatever bullshit their contemporary leaders feed them. It is a great system for creating a flock of thougthless assholes who believe all the lies the Bushies tell them. It is propaganda pretending to be truth.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: confirmation Posted by: Guy
» RE: confirmation Posted by: willymack
» The Benefits of Religion? Posted by: aussidawg
» RE: The Benefits of Religion? Posted by: mike1986
True enough to be said...
Posted by: equidave on Dec 4, 2006 1:12 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...again (and in CAPS):



THE CHRISTIAN RIGHT IS NEITHER!


Until people, without recourse to the rules of their "faith" (or fear of their courts), are naturally compassionate and inherently consider/honor the inter-dependency of all creatures and systems in our biosphere, we are doomed to suffer repackaged versions of the same evolutionary dead-end.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

One mass training program is like every other mass training program.
Posted by: Sojourner on Dec 4, 2006 2:00 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Revivalism in its traditional format has died, so now it reappears in the guise of education.

The author of this piece compares it to the "get-rich-quick" seminar circuit that promises to teach you how to make a million dollars in investments, real estate, whatever. The clever attendee will realize that the best way to get rich is to put on seminars; otherwise why would someone who knows how to get rich need to charge anyone for teaching it.

So instead of passing the offering plate, evangelists (of whatever stripe) now sell tickets. Erhardt Seminar Training did it for years, basically teaching attendees how to recruit new legions to buy more tickets.

What sells is the basic strategy that the trainer will teach you how you can be just like the trainer. It's a snake oil that cures you of poverty, sin, and loneliness.

Sagan did the same thing when he was alive, selling the discoveries of science as 'awesome insider knowledge' to willing ticket-buyers. And the anti-communist crusade did the same (and probably still is doing it?).

After you've seen one recruiter, you've seen them all. It's as American as Barnum's "Sucker born every minute."

It's religion as a "How To (fill in the blank)." Self-improvement sells. Always has, always will.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Sagan Posted by: kepstein7777
» Granted. Posted by: Sojourner
» RE: Granted. Posted by: jack alexander
» I admire your skills, Mr Peanut Posted by: emmanuel_goldstein_fights_fake_lefties
Sheeples
Posted by: Lector on Dec 4, 2006 2:11 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The people who have been infected for generations with the need to be true believers want to be sheared, herded, and categorized into their proper corrals and be told what to believe, and the jackals or the priests or whoever, are willing to provide any ”true” interpretation of the bible that suits these times. This is another reminder why the concept of organized religion has always been a dangerous thing. To have the people think independently would put all the “religious corporations” out of the business of making money and influencing politics forever. But most of us are intellectually too lazy to pursue and examine life on our own because we prefer the easier answers which religion readily and greedily provides, often incorrect or unrealistic.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Sheeples Posted by: aussidawg
Careful what you wish for.
Posted by: kepstein7777 on Dec 4, 2006 2:31 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Having a Biblically-literate flock is counterproductive. There's stuff in there about humility, materialism, hypocrisy, peacemakers, Samaritans, Pharisees...all of which could be misinterpreted as the opposite of what the preachers have been telling them.

These "re-education" boot camps are the right idea: "We'll tell you what it says in there--AGAIN. But this time, please try to pay attention."

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Careful what you wish for. Posted by: mike1997
What the right really lacks is Spirituality
Posted by: wawa on Dec 4, 2006 2:54 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There is too much religion in USA: religion provides the rules, dogma, doctrines.

Spirituality connects us to The Divine and Tom Paine got it:


"Soon after I had published the pamphlet "Common Sense" [on Feb. 14, 1776] in America, I saw the exceeding probability that a revolution in the system of government would be followed by a revolution in the system of religion... The world is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion."-Tom Paine


Common Sense was lost when Bush's Doctrine of Fear took over the American soul.

Bush claims his favorite philosopher is Christ, but he doesn't know jack about the philosophy.

Thomas Jefferson weeded out the miracle stories from the gospels and clarified the teachings of Christ in
The Jefferson Bible: The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth

1. Be just: justice comes from virtue which comes from the heart.

2. Treat people the way we want to be treated.

3. Always work for PEACEFUL resolutions, even to the point of returning violence with COMPASSION.

4. Consider valuable the things that have no material value.

5. Do not judge others.

6. Do not bear grudges.

7. Be modest and unpretentious.

8. Give out of true generosity, not because we expect to be repaid.

9. Being true to ones self is more important than being loyal to ones family...those who think they know the most are the most ignorant......


public service from WAWA:
www.WeAreWideAwake.org

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Sounds like Epictetus Posted by: churchofone
So what else is new???? sickofsleaze
Posted by: ladybug1@carrollsweb.com on Dec 4, 2006 3:28 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Any thinking person knew the Religious Right was wrong. As the old saw goes, actions speak louder than words and the actions of most of the "leaders" aka Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell and James Dobson to name a few of the most prominent were not behaving as Jesus or the Constitution tells us to conduct our daily lives. Also Bush USED to be seen sitting sanctimoniously in church and then behaving exactly the opposite. Is there a reason we no longer see Bush in Church, does he still go or is it no longer newsworhy. Not only the government but the religous communuty need to clean up their act.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Another cowardly Alternet article slamming Christians
Posted by: ISlamIslam on Dec 4, 2006 3:35 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Christians are an easy enough target to mock and criticize, as this article does in typical Alternet fashion. I'm still waiting for comparable articles mocking and criticizing Islam (which, more so than Christianity, purports that all of the answers to life can be found in one book)...including the wide-spread proseletizing that goes on in American prisons by Saudi Arabia to convert inmates to Islam. But I'm not holding my breath. After all, criticizing Islam takes courage since any Imam can issue a fatwa for your death (ask Salman Rushdie), while picking on passive, sheep-like Christians, who believe in turning the other cheek, is like shooting fish in a barrel.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Other cheek? Posted by: kepstein7777
» Happy now? Posted by: ISlamIslam
» RE: Happy now? Posted by: hms2004
» You're right, they should look at Islam too Posted by: karma_ran_over_dogma
» passive and sheeplike... Posted by: gargirl
» That Jesus, such a kidder. Posted by: MatthewSavage
» I think you're wrong... Posted by: ISlamIslam
» RE: I think you're wrong... Posted by: hms2004
» You made your point Posted by: ISlamIslam
» RE: You made your point Posted by: moflard
» RE: You made your point Posted by: ISlamIslam
» RE: You made your point Posted by: moflard
» Too risky Posted by: ISlamIslam
» OK that's your opinion. Posted by: moflard
» Christianity has its "turrorists" too Posted by: doctorsquared
» TROLL: The Game, the Rules Posted by: AdamSelene40
» Well, you gotta admit ... Posted by: AdamSelene40
» RE: TROLL: The Game, the Rules Posted by: ISlamIslam
For $179 plus tax, get a little religious hoodwinking & enlightenment.
Posted by: symcokid on Dec 4, 2006 4:53 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If a person wants to get the latest paraphrasing of parables, these religious Bible Camp seminars are the only way to go. They are comparable to military Boot Camp, a little indoctrination and everybody is on the same page. After the Crash Course, a little test is administered and the answers are all multiple choice. Get a little Modern Day - Old Time Religion and then spread the word!

The best part is it's affordable and you can use your credit card if you're a little short on cash.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

GOOD NEW FOR SALE
Posted by: jeanmo on Dec 4, 2006 4:55 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I've listened to various evangelicals on television - they 'preach' good news, always positive, always the same message. It is how they fill up the megachurches. People attend those churches to be redeemed and placated - religion lite. They don't really want to think about tough issues - like poverty - so the pastors don't mention it. Its no surprise to me they don't know the bible - reading it may make them think too hard.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Holier than thou Posted by: karma_ran_over_dogma
» You are so wrong Posted by: KatieOpinion
» RE: You are so wrong Posted by: HeroesAll
» RE: You are so wrong Posted by: hms2004
What is The First Christian Principle?
Posted by: douglashoyt on Dec 4, 2006 5:02 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Show me the money.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Mrs. Betty Bowers for President?
Posted by: colinmeister on Dec 4, 2006 5:04 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
All this funamentalist crap makes me want to get a "Betty Bowers for President" bumper sticker or tee shirt. Maybe a few people will notice it, do a google, and realise just how wierd the fundamentalists are! It often takes parody to illustrate the more bizarre beliefs of some who try to direct how we live.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Betty Bowers Slut For Christ Posted by: BAKslider
Same old crap..different cloth
Posted by: cosmicgold on Dec 4, 2006 5:23 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Dont want to sound like a broken record...but remember..Christ,Buddha,Mohammed,Krishna,Confucious, the popes,GOD,Satan,Most of the world's monarchies, Most psychologists,Imams, all the US presidents, are all Male...whats wrong with this picture??? Until half of the world's population which has been silenced (women)..nothing will be accomplished..except the same rhetoric we all have been pounding away at...peace

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Hierodule
Posted by: Hierodule on Dec 4, 2006 6:20 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's so easy to be against gay marriage and abortion - it doesn't cost anyone anything. Feeding the hungry, on the other hand, ...
Also, re: the (extremist) murdering Shiites, Sunnis, et. al., I'm still trying to figure out why men shouldn't be required to wear that veil thingy across their ugly faces. Oh, well, it's all good, right?
Oh yeah - almost forgot - good thing, isn't it, that Africa was made so peaceful and loving by the Christian missionaries. I'm sure Dobson's minions can do the same to the U.S.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Veiled men Posted by: BlueTigress
» RE: Veiled men Posted by: Hierodule
Fundies are nuts...
Posted by: xenacat on Dec 4, 2006 6:56 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Well, I've maintained for some time that the religious right bible thumpers were absolute morons who refused to think for themselves, opting instead for the easy answers given to them by their greedy, meglomanical leaders. Unfortunately, these folks are dangerous to the rest of us in their ignorance, as we have seen with Dumbya and the worldwide inferno he created with his unthinking beliefs. Willing ignorance does not a good person make...by the way, what is the Tackett fellow's problem with poor ol' Carl Sagan? Dear Carl has long since joined the star stuff...you'd think Tackett would find someone live to obsess about.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

GodSpeed their friggen Rapture
Posted by: veggiegrrrl on Dec 4, 2006 7:02 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
GodSpeed their friggen Rapture. I hope they all beam up to heaven or wherever they think they're going and leave the earth to the rest of us heathens to work on environmental healing and world peace. Good Riddance to Bad Rubbish.
May Jesus come back to earth and take them all away NOW!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Ignorance
Posted by: LeeAnnG on Dec 4, 2006 7:17 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Anyone see Senator Westmoreland (R-Georgia) on the Colbert Report when he was asked to list the 10 commandments? He got three of them, and he is (was?) a sponsor of a bill that would require the commandments to be posted in government buildings because, in his (paraphrased) words, "without the 10 commandments, we lose our moral compass." I guess to be a True Believing Christian, you don't really have to know what the Bible actually teaches or what the commandments actually say, you just have to believe that whatever it is, it's true.

I've talked to any number of Christians who consider themselves to be Fundamentalists, and more often than not, they have either no idea or a very limited understanding of what's in the Bible. I have a good friend who is a Christian who told me he believes the Bible literally. I asked him if he really thought Noah put two of every creature in the world in an ark roughly the size of a football field and how he thought Noah got to Australia to get the kangaroos. He said that it didn't matter, that this was not the point of the Bible and that he believes its essence. Hm. This is an intelligent guy, and he didn't understand the literal meaning of the word "literal."

When people say they literally believe in everything in the Bible, they usually do not even know what the English word "literally" means. They also don't know that the Bible says that touching pigskin is an abomination, that it's OK to sell your daughter into sexual slavery, or any number of other ideas that would be offensive to them. (See Sam Harris's "Letter to a Christian Nation.)

So football is out (pigskin), sexual slavery is in, and multiple wives are sanctioned by God. Wow. It's amazing how anyone can "literally" believe in words that have been translated numerous times from ancient texts and ideas from ancient cultures that are truly alien to our society. It's like thousands of years of whisper down the alley.

Speaking of translations, if you translate a modern Italian novel into English and back again, the content will be quite different from the original. It is nearly impossible to take the phrases, nuances, and peculiarities of one language and culture and get an exact fit into another. The King James version of the Bible, so beloved by the "traditionalists," was not ever intended to be an exact translation of the Biblical texts; it was written in large part for the poetry of the language. It is, in fact, quite lovely in many parts, but it's not the words from the mouth of God that many would like to believe.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» The Pigskin ... Posted by: AdamSelene40
» RE: The Pigskin ... Posted by: hms2004
» RE: The Pigskin ... Posted by: LeeAnnG
» RE: The Pigskin ... Posted by: ellarwee
oh goody!
Posted by: catnapping on Dec 4, 2006 7:22 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
more brainwashing for the rabid christianists.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Dog & Pony Show
Posted by: NoPCZone on Dec 4, 2006 7:34 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's crap like this being done by Dobson for profit and the lemmings who follow that is among the things that casts a big shadow on the Christian faith in our country. The audience for this kind of stuff come overwhelmingly from the megachurches where the faithful are spoon fed carefully crafted sermonettes, heavy on guilt and light on responsibility. Everything except the chair/pew is for sale.

What I get from the Bible is very different from what these Jesus for fun & profit types espouse. What I get is that we are to love, respect and revere every person as much as we would ourselves. That we are to extend grace and mercy to others and seek peace. That we are to care for those at the margins of society: the orphan, the widow, the prisoner, the sick and the injured. That we show our love for God, not in our words, but our actions. Finally, that as we have received this freely, we are to give it freely.

Jesus warned the people following Him that such types would come into the church (not a building or denomination- the set of all christians) for selfish reasons and purposes. He said that they would be 'as ravenous wolves' even while presenting themselves as harmless.

I would like to admonish the author regarding his smug/smarmy sniping at the church. Maybe you are not a Christian or hold to any faith at all- good for you. Don't turn every discussion relating to Christians into an opportunity to advance other viewpoints. The contention that most of the founders were Deists is about as unfounded as the rantings of James Dobson, James Kennedy and Pat Robertson about the issue and about as inaccurate.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Dog & Pony Show Posted by: purplelotus13
» RE: Dog & Pony Show Posted by: NoPCZone
BIBLE THUMPING FOR FUN AND PROFIT
Posted by: VZEQICVA on Dec 4, 2006 7:47 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You must admit, these people have made fortunes on their Bible. It seems blasphemous to me. Despite their cliams and superior attitude, they are not truly decent people. They make no attempt to help the destitute or the sick. Or to help out in times of natural disasters. They set up more tax exempt trusts. The good people are the entertainers and other rich and famouse who raise money for many causes. They are not judgemental. Just generous. Thanks, ANNA

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Truth???
Posted by: LoveYourEnemies on Dec 4, 2006 7:58 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Someone said it earlier and I'm surprised not many other people picked up on it. This little "Truth" fest that claims to teach biblical truth doesn't teach people to read the Bible!!!

I used to be a conservative evangelical. I used to listen to Dobson's show "religiously" (excuse the pun). I bought into the Falwell influenced doctrine. Then the Church made a critical mistake. They actually told me to READ THE BIBLE. OOOPS!!!

I read the Old Testament and quickly realized that it was the story of a group of people justifying their actions after being released from slavery. Case in point: God told the Israelites to go into Canaan and kill all the men, all the women, and all the children (images of babies being ripped from their mothers' breasts and being beheaded come to mind... essentially the same thing that's happening in the Sudan). The BS flag on the stories veracity started flying. I finally got to the New Testament and didn't even recognize Jesus. Wait a minute... "love your enemies"? "Don't pray in public places"? "Don't judge"? Huh? Who's this guy? I was used to finding ways to defeat homosexuality, argue down and despise Richard Dawkins and hate liberals (I couldn't bring myself to do that). I found that we're defined by our works not by saying some "sinner's prayer" or going to the "right" church or going to church at all.

Then I got to the letters in the New Testament (most of them attributed to Paul) and found that Paul actually created the environment where the religious right nonsense could begin to grow and thrive. Women must stay silent. Women can't teach. Slaves must obey their masters. The people must obey their government (even when they're wrong). You're equal only if you believe in Christ. You must give your pastors "double honor". I won't even get started on Peter's letters or Revelation.

Suffice it to say, I realized what was going on and left conservative evangelicalism. I recognized that it was the biggest scam ever to get the populace to conform to the power structure. As Marx said (and conservative evangelicals despise to hear), "Religion is the opiate of the masses." You're fine as long as you stay asleep and don't question the "biblical worldview" handed down to you from the rich and the powerful on high- the recognized "leadership" of the God-ordained movement.

After reading the Bible myself, without study notes, without someone "teaching" me how to do so, I challenged the religious authority in my church and summarily got kicked out.

Again, the leaders who are putting on this sham have no interest in having their followers become biblically literate. It's all a scam to get people to toe the line and have them vote Republican. Even Barna is in on it (which is shocking to me because I actually still respected him). Isn't it interesting that this whole thing is happening after the Republicans lost control of Congress?

If you control the flow of information or control how the information is processed, you control the system. These people are all about control. They don't know Jesus and would kill him if they could.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Publish this! Posted by: CardiacRN
» RE: Publish this! Posted by: purplelotus13
» Pray in private - it's Matthew 6:5-6 Posted by: doctorsquared
It's a form of mental illness
Posted by: MonkeyBoy on Dec 4, 2006 8:00 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
People are drawn to this nonsense due to a mental illness, which is then exploited through hypnosis (prayer). An hour or two a week is enough to keep the trance going. Oh, and don't forget to tithe 10% (that's gross, not net) of your income. You'll burn in hell if you don't.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Who knows?
Posted by: doctorsquared on Dec 4, 2006 8:13 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Maybe this could turn out to be a good thing when all these fundies take a look inside the ol' good book and realize what a sadist its god is.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Greedy
Posted by: BlueTigress on Dec 4, 2006 8:18 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If this guy REALLY wanted other Christians to know the Bible he would just give away his A/V presentation to any and all, rather than get them to pony up for tickets.

'Hard-working Christians'? One girl I used to work with who subscribed to some weird branch of Christianity (Christadelphian), would spend hours playing with her coloring book when she could get away with it. She and her cousin would also exchange long gossipy faxes. Finally, she was also responsible for entering the salesmen's call report and she would only work on the easily legible, fully filled out ones. When I got that task back, it took me almost a year to get caught up on them in addition to my other tasks.

'Hard-working Christians'? More like minimum-work leeches. My husband used to work with a woman who would write and run off her church's weekly letters using company equipment while on the clock.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

"The Good News" not Dobson style....
Posted by: picket on Dec 4, 2006 9:15 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If "so called" Ministers of God taught the truth the Churches of every Christian Denomination would empty out. Then maybe the sheep that want to do the "Corporal Works of Mercy would come back.
The hardhearted can pose as saints all day long, but it is not hard to pick them out. The so described bleeding hearts are easy to pick. To put the two groups in the same church building is asking for turmoil.
The Good News is not complicated, for those people so inclined to believe by faith. But to group all Christians together is a huge misunderstanding.
People with no faith and people with a form of faith can usually stand together on at least one goal and manage to get along.
The political goal is to support leaders who are more concerned about the PEOPLE and not MONEY for their own selfish interests. It is NOT an easy task.

The BIBLE is an awe inspiring book. Why was it forbidden to be read by the commoner for centuries, why were people hung for leading underground groups in study, why were single torn pages a priceless treasure, why were the American Slaves forbidden to read it???????.........Duh...

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

jareilly
Posted by: jareilly on Dec 4, 2006 9:33 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
it might be a good thing for evangelicals to actually become familiar with most of the Bible (to which the article sort of alludes). they might find out that the cranky fire and brimstone they're getting force fed by Dobson et al are kind of a Biblical on-sequiter. outside of Revelations and Leviticus there isn't that much of it. They might even be unable to avoid some of the glaring inconsistencies and conflicts among and between scriptures.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Buy the Truth and Sell it Not
Posted by: edhowes on Dec 4, 2006 9:41 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Buy the truth and sell it not." Proverbs. I have been buying what I could afford of it for more than 30 years and familiarity with the scriptures has been a blessing to my understanding of this world, allowing me to clearly see many claiming the Christian faith were as far from it as the secular humanist, if not farther. In 1988 I published a mini magazine called Christian Forum, with the idea of creating dialog by constantly expanding the readers' letter pages. I got 6 issues published, had mostly prisoner subscribers so paid out mostly my own time and money in the effort.

It was not until I had access to the internet, indirectly through an online friend nearly 4 years ago, I saw I could now afford to share much of the truth I had paid for. I published on article directories and just over two years ago, got my own web site. I write to secular society, not about scripture but political and social issues, often using some scripture to illustrate a point.

The great religious deceptions come when leadership pretends it has the whole truth and we can't understand anything without their assistance and most often we will pay for that assistance, if for no other reason than to bring the light of truth to others. Still, the merchandising of religion became clarified to me after I realized the way one particular scripture is often used to deceive the sheep. :For many will come in my name, saying I am the Christ and shall deceive many." Evangelists teach this as THE anti christ claiming to be Christ and deceiving people. In truth, Jesus is saying, many will come in my name, acknowledging me and deceiving many. Jesus was warning us of the evangelists, using some or much truth while promoting doctrines of men, such as the secret rapture. How many books of scripture and commentaries would $179 buy for a genuine, literate truth seeker?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Dumb Christians eh?
Posted by: MAD on Dec 4, 2006 10:03 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Heee, Heeee - look at the dumb Christians!" Meanwhile Alternet readers blindly follow their own religious sect - The Democratic Party, which if I'm not mistaken voted your asses into Vietnam II and is now dragging its feet getting you out - forget impeaching that common thug for a president.

Isn't it obvious by now that Alternet only runs these tired, religious-themed stories for self-righteous atheists who seek affirmation of their inherent superiority in relation to the "ignorant and superstitious" beliefs of Christian, Jewish or Muslim adherents? On a personal note I'm no friend to religion but this article was hardly newsworthy let alone critique-worthy.

So Christians want to rob one another in some "renaissance" bible scam - big fucking deal! Given the antipathy your average Alternet reader harbors for Christians, this should be a most welcome event that just confirms what you already know: that you're right and they're wrong - sound familiar? Now that all you smug atheists have given your sanctimonious $.02, off to Starbucks with you, then who's up for skiing and $80 dollar lift tickets?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Dumb Christians (Yeah) Posted by: jmooney
» Smug is as smug does... Posted by: MatthewSavage
» RE: Smug is as smug does... Posted by: jmooney
» RE: Smug is as smug does... Posted by: MatthewSavage
» RE: Dumb Christians eh? Posted by: fanny666
» Picked the right web name MAD! Posted by: CardiacRN
» RE: Dumb Christians eh? Posted by: hms2004
» not an atheist... Posted by: gargirl
Laughable
Posted by: jmooney on Dec 4, 2006 10:11 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I recently was reading something on Alternet, I think, about how Britain's health minister was decrying the idea the idea of sexual abstinence as the premier way to reduce teenage pregnancy. The piece concluded along the lines of "Isn't it refreshing to see a country with grown ups managing their health agency."

That stuck with me. These biblical literalists strike me as people who are just unable to grow up. Like little children, they want certainty, they want to have their little imaginary friend in the sky and have all of us accept that the friend is real regardless of the evidence or lack thereof. They want a simple handbook to tell them how to live. But there isn't a simple handbook. And there isn't any unseen being to which they can turn. They have to turn to themselves, rich into their own inner life and find a way that makes sense for them and doesn't hurt others.

The bible is a bunch of stuff cobbled together through the years and voted upon by human beings. It is all about ancient musings, rantings, general lunacy and the like. To suggest that such a book should be the only source of truth and direction for human beings is just DUM.

I understand people wanting to connecting with something greater than themselves. I have the same desire and recognize that there are many things in the Universe much more powerful than I. The collective power of all of us reasoning together is a power greater than me, and I can connect with that. We can appreciate the universe, attempt to learn more about it through the scientific method and through philosophical musings. We can seek to do the next right thing in our lives, attempt to leave the world a better place for those who follow, treat others how we want to be treated. That's not brain surgery. It doesn't require sifting and re-sifting through conflicting and often barbaric devine scripture.

Yes, we can learn some good (and, most assuredly) some bad from the bible, and the same can be said about other literature written throughout the ages. But I'd rather based my ethics on developing human rights consensus as revealed through the ages in the activities of humans. We outlawed slavery, empowered women, protected children and adult workers from workplace exploitation, etc., and most of that came in spite of biblical language that, when taken literally, actually opposed such basic human rights initiatives.

The bible as truth? I think not.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Laughable Posted by: famouspipeliner
Religion and Progress
Posted by: aussidawg on Dec 4, 2006 11:22 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Face it...it's way easier to listen to someone else's views than it is too learn facts on your own. It is my opinion that the religious whackos (like beat your kids for their own good Dobson) are that way because they are too lazy to take the time to learn by exploration, experimentation, and repeatedly provabe observation. After all, which is easier, reading Genesis or studying the human genome for years?

If full grown adults wish to rely on religion rather than knowledge, okay, that is their personal choice, as long as they keep it to themselves and out of the legal system! Whan it comes to pushing religion down the throats of our kids, the line must be drawn. Young childern are taught to believe religious beliefs through dogmatic fear at a very early age. This fear remains a part of the child's beliefs all the way to adulthood, at which point, the process is repeated. As adults, religion is an excellent tool for controlling others, again, through the use of fear, and of course, laws. Perhaps, if we made it a rule of society to keep children from being exposed to religion until they reach the age of legal consent, our society would not only eventually become more educated as a whole and therefore more prosperous and competitive with other more educated nations, but first and foremost, our society would become the free society that we flaunt to the rest of the world. Just think, without the prevalance of religion in our society that exists today, perhaps our prisons and jailswould be used to house and isolate from society violent and dangerous criminals such as murderers, rapists, armed robbers and such rather than drug users, prostitutes, gamblers, and other non-violent persons that have done nothing other than violate someone else's standard of morality by exerciseing free choice over their recreational activites.

I am certain that there are many people that would disagree with me on this, but in my opinin at least, religion is nothing more than a blight on our society, something that interferes with progress, knowledge, and freedom. Keep out of reach of children!!!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Religion and Progress Posted by: doctorsquared
» RE: eligion and Progress Posted by: jmooney
otto
Posted by: otto on Dec 4, 2006 11:38 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There is a basic disagreement between two views of what it means to be a Christian. The right Wing Fundamentalist view seems to think that God just gave the Bible to us as a completed book, all at one time. They tend to pick a few texts that back their views and ignore any that don't seem to fit. More progressive Christians see that the Bible grew out of the experiences of the Jewish and later Christian people (later called the Church). There were many stories and traditions, spoken and later written down, and later Jewish and Christian authorities decided which ones were inspired in a sense so that they could be seen as God's Word. They still accept it as the Word of God, but not always literally and word for word, and are open to new understandings of things as human scientific knowledge grows. In a sense, they keep the Bible in one hand and their human experience and common sense in the other hand, trying to see how God might be leading us today. I believe in God, and I think He-She believes in us as we grow, develop and muddle our way through history.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

No Moo Lies!
Posted by: fanny666 on Dec 4, 2006 11:46 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
By the way, Focus on the Family is not Southern- they are from right here in Colorado.

http://www.no-moo-lies.com

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: No Moo Lies! Posted by: purplelotus13
laughable ignorance
Posted by: Gene the Bean on Dec 4, 2006 12:20 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's just a hoot reading the comments here. For the most part, your "knowledge" of Christianity, the Bible, James Dobson and Focus on the Family is laughably off-base. You speak contemptuously of conservative Christians as "sheep," yet ignorantly accept the various comments here without ever bothering to check them out. Yes, sheep indeed!

No one is saying you have to agree with Christianity, Dobson et al., but at least make some attempt to know what you're talking about before spouting off.

Thanks for the good laugh!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: laughable ignorance Posted by: MonkeyBoy
» RE: We are Christians Posted by: Ghoulman
» RE: We are Christians Posted by: Gene the Bean
» RE: We are Christians Posted by: laoma
» RE: We are Christians Posted by: laoma
» RE: We are Christians Posted by: Gene the Bean
» RE: We are Christians Posted by: dkm
» RE: We are Christians Posted by: dkm
fred c dobbs sez:
Posted by: gltirebiter on Dec 4, 2006 12:40 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
heh heh heh...
this program sounds suspiciously like one on a comedy record from long ago by marshall ephron...

the close cover before striking bible school and discount house of worship.

motto: you can't take it with you but it can be there waiting for you when you arrive.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

The Greatest Story .....
Posted by: symcokid on Dec 4, 2006 1:21 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
ever told, is just that - a Story!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Kiddies, you all missed the key point again...
Posted by: angstotheclown on Dec 4, 2006 2:40 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"The seminar is scripted and presented by Dr. Del Tackett, an energetic yet predictably dull senior executive at Focus on the Family and an adjunct professor at New Geneva Theological Seminary and Summit Ministries. Before joining Focus, Tackett spent 20 years in the Air Force and was director of technical planning for George H. W. Bush's National Security Council. The Truth Project website describes him as a "visionary and a teacher." "

This guy was installed by the men who own the world to keep spreading their disinformation. He no more believes this crap then Stalin believed in Communism. The world banks, Big Oil, and the industrialists who build and then destroy the machines of war own this planet and use folks, you, me and these uneducated evangelicals as slaves to boost the profit margin. We are doomed.

http://home.comcast.net/~howardluken/the80yearplan.htm

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Come and See
Posted by: kenhymes on Dec 4, 2006 3:02 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If you're in Central Virginia, come to Peace Lutheran Church, and you'll see and hear something very different from what is presented as Christianity by the Dobsons et al. We're about justice and mercy and reaching out to people in need with love and concrete assistance. We do believe in God and Jesus and the Holy Spirit and the power of prayer. Some of you think that means we're dupes, or mentally ill. I can't make that assumption go away. But look around before you assume that publicity in the national press means much of anything about what's really going on out there. Are leftists well-represented by the media or the Democratic Party? Nope. Are the Gospels well-represented by the media and the most prominent and powerful "Christians"? Again, nope.

Grace and patience and compassion for each other would sure be a good thing right now.

Peace

Ken Hymes

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Come and See Posted by: Gene the Bean
» RE: Come and See Posted by: dkm
» A Good Thing Posted by: Sparks56
» RE: Come and See Posted by: jmooney
Takes A Lotta Brains
Posted by: Sparks56 on Dec 4, 2006 4:15 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Was it a typo? 10% of evangelicals are bible-literate? Hell, only that many are literate at all! (I offer our born-again president as an example.)
You see, the trick is, ya gotta keep 'em just stupid enough. Too stupid and ya start losin' 'em. Not stupid enough, and they start watchin' Cosmos re-runs and all that other cosmological, evolutionary biology crap on the science channels. It's a fine line Dobson's gotta walk. Takes a lotta brains to teach people to not use theirs.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

we live in a "glorious social system [that] God has given us." Good Lord!
Posted by: Jasonix on Dec 4, 2006 6:49 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What planet do these so-called "Christians" live on?! I can't understand why people who claim to be "pro-family" won't support the polices that families need. I never had a family, and with my wife at age 38, that hope is behind me forever. We weren't able to get to a place where she could quit working. Without her income and with the added expenses of family, we'd slide hundreds of dollars into debt each month - and day care wasn't an option, because my wife barely made enough money to pay for day care and work-related costs. We're better off than most people - we aren't in debt at all except for our mortgage. Every young family I know is thousands of dollars in the hole and going deeper every day. But these assholes in the religious right rant about gay marriage and do nothing to work for affordable housing, universal health care, and other issues that would make a real difference for working families.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Be Careful
Posted by: SuZieCoyote on Dec 4, 2006 7:45 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We on the left, have a problem with consistently underestimating the opposition (we considered GW Bush a bumpkin, but he's had two turns at the White House).

Be carefull with dismissing Del Tackett as "an energetic yet predictably dull senior executive at Focus on the Family." I worked with him during his time at Kaman Sciences. He is anything but dull. While I vigoroulsy disagree with his politics, I can say he is an admirable man who should never be underestimated. I watched him lead a very small team of software engineers in developing very intricate and complex products at a tiny fraction of the cost and time that other, very competent people and corporations, estimated it would take - not just once, but several times. And, not once, did this man ever accept credit for any of the work. Every time the company tried to give him an award or publicaly priase him, Del waxed poetic only about his team members and their abilities and contributions. The members of his team, to a person, held him in awe. The man is absolutely and radically honest, steadfast and encouraging. Wrong-headed, yes, I believe so, but a formidable force for what he believes. People...frequently very smart people...follow Del. He inspires loyalty and top performance.

The ignorance of the evangelicals is custom-made for the likes of Dobson. Since they don't know what the Bible says, he (with Del's help) can selectively pick and choose those passages that support their wealthy, Republican, world-view. Rather than dismiss Del as a dullard fundie, liiberal Christianity must work to counter his "Jesus was a capitalist" bull.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

What Would Jesus Do?
Posted by: Jo1028 on Dec 4, 2006 10:33 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If you actually read the Gospels - you would remember that Jesus drove the moneychangers out of the temple. It was the only time he ever really got angry. George Burns in Oh God! got it right too-Dobson and Co. should sell earth shoes!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

play stump your fundie
Posted by: bookie on Dec 5, 2006 6:08 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
here's a fun thing to do. When a fundamentalist starts quoting at you from HIS bible, hand him yours and say show me the quote. My son has been brainwashed into the Pentecostal church, and the bible he carries around with him says some different things from the king james version.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Immaculate Conception??
Posted by: TheNamelessCity on Dec 5, 2006 10:59 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is amazing how many supposedly religion-literate Christians still get the Immaculate Conception confused with the Virgin Birth, and believe that Mary conceived Jesus "immaculately" because she didn't have intercourse, thus sex is dirty. Of course the churches do not correct this error, since they WANT to make the sheep believe that sex is dirty. Ask anyone who knows what the Doctrine of the Immaculate Conception is, the vast majority will say oh sex is dirty, Mary didn't have sex to get Jesus. Such illiterate little followers.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Immaculate Conception?? Posted by: Gene the Bean
» RE: Immaculate Conception?? Posted by: jmooney
» RE: Immaculate Conception?? Posted by: hms2004
Thoughts on Religion
Posted by: dkm on Dec 5, 2006 4:03 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I believe it was Hillel who said words to the effect that the Talmud says "Do not do to others what is hateful to yourself. All the rest is commentary." This is the central part of any philosophy of how people can get along, whether religious or not.

As for those who are so confident in their particular flavor of religion, someone, I don't know who, once said, "Follow those who seek the truth. Flee those who have found it." I think that also applies to most situations.

Religions are usually developed around a central philosophy on how people should live their lives. In order to have a vital philosophy, a person needs to truly believe in something, but that something is much more valid if that person reached those conclusions on their own rather than have them shoved into their heads beginning at an early age. College bull sessions that question and defend beliefs and values are much more conducive to this kind of reflection than sitting in church through a sermon. I remember after my divorce from an Irish Catholic that my son told me that the priest where his mother was sending him for catechism had said that the difference between Protestantism and Catholicism is the belief in whether the wine and bread turned into the real Christ. I pointed out that this was a mere sideshow. The real difference is that Protestants are expected to study and think and reach their own conclusions whereas Catholics are supposed to believe what they are told, shut up, sit down and don't ask questions. Some flavors of Protestantism have now forgone this tradition, but by and large, it is the defining difference between Luther and the Pope.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Herr Prez
Posted by: symcokid on Dec 6, 2006 12:03 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Bush is a prime example of a Christian or are they going to now say that he is a misguided Christian. Onward, Christian Soldiers, march off to Iraq - your leaders war.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Misquided humans? Posted by: jmooney
A different angle
Posted by: JC Freak on Dec 8, 2006 10:28 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It always brings a smile to my face, when we "Christians" are discussed so intently on your site, but hopefully at least talking about Jesus is a start to bringing you to the Truth. The thing I don't understand about this particular article is: All you Non-believers - WHY DO YOU CARE WHAT WE DO WITH OUR TIME AND MONEY?
Everytime your side does something, and opposing views are mentiioned, your response is always - "what do you care, why don't you mind your own business?" but when you offer an opposing view, you make every effort to exploit it. But in fact, The Christian base of this country and the world does need a revitalizing and if it takes a "Boot Camp" to achieve this, all the better. As Paul wrote to Timothy, " Wage the Good Warfare" (1Timothy 1:18). As a "Soldier of Christ" (2Timothy 2:3), it is good to my spirituality to be exercised in a "Boot Camp" program. I do admit there is sometimes initial frustration at some of the articles and comments but then I recall what Paul said " The message of the Cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved, it is the power of GOD" (1Corinthians 1:18).

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: A different angle Posted by: jmooney
Toker (marijuanablog-toker.blogspot.com)
Posted by: angel headed hipster on Dec 9, 2006 10:53 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
My Father worked Sundays, My mother, too. But she sang at any number of chruches who needed a soprano soloist (ringer) for the choir. I attended Baptist, Methodist, Presbiterian, Lutheran and Pentecostal; while my mom rehearsed wity the choir, my sister and I attended Sunday School.

Very early on, I began to question the differences between the interpretations of scripture between, say, the Baptists and the Pentecostals. After being put in my place, being told in no uncertain terms that the Great Deceiver (Satan) had corrupted the other religions, and to put all toughts of other doctrine out of my mind as teachings of the Great Deceiver and noting more.

Soon, my questions raised the ire of each Sunday School teacher and I was relegated to the equivalence of dunce, for not accepting the teachings of whichever sect.

My mother was born a Jew and converted at an early age. After listening to a hateful screed of anti-semitism, one morning in the cloak room, she stood up, revealed that she was a Jew first and a christian second, as was Jesus, the word on the street was that she ripped the concerned parties a new one, yanked us out of our Sunday School class (what a joyous moment), and began a littany of why Christians were, by and large, the most egregious group of hippocrites she had ever the displeasure with which to associate .

ALready, I knew of the proclamations of most of the local holy rollers versus their personal lives and dealings in the community. Her diatribe, while not as complete as it might have been, was confirmation that the majority of Christians are hypocrites who commit onerous deeds in private, ask the Lord for forgivenesss, and then everything is just tikkedy-boo., all forgiven for heinous, unforgivable deeds.

That was the day I realized the underlying lie of Christianity: these are terrible people who think they can conduct themselves however they please and be forgiven for the asking.

Now, when I see someone reading the bible, I am more than happy to take whatever scripture within they are absorbed, and shake their faith to the bone.

Most run away with their hands over theor ears, shouting "Blashphemer, disbeliever"...heaven help them if they attempt to respond with scripture, for I know it more completely than they do.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

  • AlterNetYour turn

Support AlterNet
Do you value the information you're getting from AlterNet? Please show your support with a tax-deductible donation.


Feedback
Tell us how we're doing.

Advertisement
Advertisement