AlterNet / By Robert Jensen
comments_imageCOMMENTS: 616

No Thanks to Thanksgiving

Instead, we should atone for the genocide that was incited -- and condoned -- by the very men we idolize as our 'heroic' founding fathers.
November 23, 2006  |  
 
 
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One indication of moral progress in the United States would be the replacement of Thanksgiving Day and its self-indulgent family feasting with a National Day of Atonement accompanied by a self-reflective collective fasting.

In fact, indigenous people have offered such a model; since 1970 they have marked the fourth Thursday of November as a Day of Mourning in a spiritual/political ceremony on Coles Hill overlooking Plymouth Rock, Massachusetts, one of the early sites of the European invasion of the Americas.

Not only is the thought of such a change in this white-supremacist holiday impossible to imagine, but the very mention of the idea sends most Americans into apoplectic fits -- which speaks volumes about our historical hypocrisy and its relation to the contemporary politics of empire in the United States.

That the world's great powers achieved "greatness" through criminal brutality on a grand scale is not news, of course. That those same societies are reluctant to highlight this history of barbarism also is predictable.

But in the United States, this reluctance to acknowledge our original sin -- the genocide of indigenous people -- is of special importance today. It's now routine -- even among conservative commentators -- to describe the United States as an empire, so long as everyone understands we are an inherently benevolent one. Because all our history contradicts that claim, history must be twisted and tortured to serve the purposes of the powerful.

One vehicle for taming history is various patriotic holidays, with Thanksgiving at the heart of U.S. myth-building. From an early age, we Americans hear a story about the hardy Pilgrims, whose search for freedom took them from England to Massachusetts. There, aided by the friendly Wampanoag Indians, they survived in a new and harsh environment, leading to a harvest feast in 1621 following the Pilgrims first winter.

Some aspects of the conventional story are true enough. But it's also true that by 1637 Massachusetts Gov. John Winthrop was proclaiming a thanksgiving for the successful massacre of hundreds of Pequot Indian men, women and children, part of the long and bloody process of opening up additional land to the English invaders. The pattern would repeat itself across the continent until between 95 and 99 percent of American Indians had been exterminated and the rest were left to assimilate into white society or die off on reservations, out of the view of polite society.

Simply put: Thanksgiving is the day when the dominant white culture (and, sadly, most of the rest of the non-white but non-indigenous population) celebrates the beginning of a genocide that was, in fact, blessed by the men we hold up as our heroic founding fathers.

The first president, George Washington, in 1783 said he preferred buying Indians' land rather than driving them off it because that was like driving "wild beasts" from the forest. He compared Indians to wolves, "both being beasts of prey, tho' they differ in shape."

Thomas Jefferson -- president #3 and author of the Declaration of Independence, which refers to Indians as the "merciless Indian Savages" -- was known to romanticize Indians and their culture, but that didn't stop him in 1807 from writing to his secretary of war that in a coming conflict with certain tribes, "[W]e shall destroy all of them."

As the genocide was winding down in the early 20th century, Theodore Roosevelt (president #26) defended the expansion of whites across the continent as an inevitable process "due solely to the power of the mighty civilized races which have not lost the fighting instinct, and which by their expansion are gradually bringing peace into the red wastes where the barbarian peoples of the world hold sway."

Roosevelt also once said, "I don't go so far as to think that the only good Indians are dead Indians, but I believe nine out of ten are, and I shouldn't like to inquire too closely into the case of the tenth."

How does a country deal with the fact that some of its most revered historical figures had certain moral values and political views virtually identical to Nazis? Here's how "respectable" politicians, pundits, and professors play the game: When invoking a grand and glorious aspect of our past, then history is all-important. We are told how crucial it is for people to know history, and there is much hand wringing about the younger generations' lack of knowledge about, and respect for, that history.

In the United States, we hear constantly about the deep wisdom of the founding fathers, the adventurous spirit of the early explorers, the gritty determination of those who "settled" the country -- and about how crucial it is for children to learn these things.

But when one brings into historical discussions any facts and interpretations that contest the celebratory story and make people uncomfortable -- such as the genocide of indigenous people as the foundational act in the creation of the United States -- suddenly the value of history drops precipitously and one is asked, "Why do you insist on dwelling on the past?"

This is the mark of a well-disciplined intellectual class -- one that can extol the importance of knowing history for contemporary citizenship and, at the same time, argue that we shouldn't spend too much time thinking about history.

This off-and-on engagement with history isn't of mere academic interest; as the dominant imperial power of the moment, U.S. elites have a clear stake in the contemporary propaganda value of that history. Obscuring bitter truths about historical crimes helps perpetuate the fantasy of American benevolence, which makes it easier to sell contemporary imperial adventures -- such as the invasion and occupation of Iraq -- as another benevolent action.

Any attempt to complicate this story guarantees hostility from mainstream culture. After raising the barbarism of America's much-revered founding fathers in a lecture, I was once accused of trying to "humble our proud nation" and "undermine young people's faith in our country."

Yes, of course -- that is exactly what I would hope to achieve. We should practice the virtue of humility and avoid the excessive pride that can, when combined with great power, lead to great abuses of power.

History does matter, which is why people in power put so much energy into controlling it. The United States is hardly the only society that has created such mythology. While some historians in Great Britain continue to talk about the benefits that the empire brought to India, political movements in India want to make the mythology of Hindutva into historical fact.

Abuses of history go on in the former empire and the former colony. History can be one of the many ways we create and impose hierarchy, or it can be part of a process of liberation. The truth won't set us free, but the telling of truth at least opens the possibility of freedom.

As Americans sit down on Thanksgiving Day to gorge themselves on the bounty of empire, many will worry about the expansive effects of overeating on their waistlines. We would be better to think about the constricting effects of the day's mythology on our minds.

AlterNet orginally ran this article on Thanksgiving 2005.
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Robert Jensen is a journalism professor at the University of Texas at Austin, and the author of, most recently, "The Heart of Whiteness: Confronting Race, Racism and White Privilege" (City Lights Books).
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truth
[Report this comment]
Posted by: rsaxto on Nov 23, 2006 12:25 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is presenting truth to power and we need a lot more of it the biosphere is to be able to support our human population in decency and peace. As war continues it constitutes proof of the greed and stupidity we bring to each other. Let us prove our intelligence and decency by impeaching the current prime instigators of war, indecency, torture and degradation: the Bushies.

» ARE YOU ON DRUGS!?! Posted by: Scientz
» namecaller and taunter Posted by: monkopotamus
» RE: namecaller and taunter Posted by: Scientz
» RE: namecaller and taunter Posted by: Scientz
» RE: namecaller and taunter Posted by: rsaxto
» Pinko sissies rule!!!! Posted by: jjason
» Then eat the vomit. Posted by: jjason
» jjason is the vomit Posted by: monkopotamus
» RE: namecaller and taunter Posted by: Scientz
» enjoy this turkey Posted by: monkopotamus
» RE: enjoy this turkey Posted by: Scientz
» RE: enjoy this turkey Posted by: rsaxto
» RE: namecaller and taunter Posted by: rsaxto
» RE: ARE YOU ON DRUGS!?! Posted by: psychochurch
» RE: ARE YOU ON DRUGS!?! Posted by: Scientz
» RE: ARE YOU ON DRUGS!?! Posted by: rsaxto
» RE: ARE YOU ON DRUGS!?! Posted by: Scientz
» RE: Sarah Hutchinson-Cherokee Posted by: jefhadist
» RE: truth Posted by: deaudonnee

Comments are closed-

Thanksgiving is like christmas
[Report this comment]
Posted by: autonomie on Nov 23, 2006 12:38 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Thanksgiving is like christmas in that both are misunderstood.

For Thanksgiving, it's supposedly a day to think about pilgrims. Ask yourself: is this how you spend Thanksgiving? I'd bet most people would say no, and that it's a day to meet up with family.

For christmas, it's supposedly a big religious thing. But it's not. It's composed of 2 parts. The first is a consumerist holiday for corporations, ensuring the system cranks forward. The second is, again, a chance to spend time with family.

1. Spending time with your family is not necessarily bad.
2. Nobody alive can be blamed for the actions of people who lived 500 years ago.

That said, there is still a war being waged by governments against indigenous peoples. The US government, its FBI, and its BIA (Bureau of Indian Affairs) are the main culprits.

Not family holidays.

Alternet, I think it would be cool if you stopped running this article. How about replacing it with something that properly identifies the culprits, perhaps giving some ideas about what people can do?

» Not Cool! Posted by: Sparks56
» RE: Not Cool! Posted by: paschn
» YAY FOR SOCIAL INDOCTRINATION! Posted by: thistleblower
» Thanksgiving Posted by: derfb1
» RE: Thanksgiving Posted by: blitzmesser
» RE: Thanksgiving Posted by: Suz
» RE: Thanksgiving Posted by: cottontail
» RE: Thanksgiving is like christmas Posted by: canadianlefty
» Enjoy Your Turkey Posted by: LeaderofMen

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too much credit?
[Report this comment]
Posted by: bottleman on Nov 23, 2006 1:19 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Um, I think the writer is giving the propagandists a bit too much credit and us boobs at home too little.

Does anyone actually think the Indians got a good deal? Does anyone think they went away quietly and cooperatively? I don't know a single person, liberal or conservative, that believes the Pilgrim thanksgiving myth is representative of the actual relationship between whites and Indians over the 300 years of white expansion.

These people don't love thanksgiving day because of the pilgrim myth. They might not know every skirmish, every epidemic, and every opportunistic sale of rum, but they know exactly what kind of ugly things happened in the 300 years after the Pilgrim thanksgiving.

Like another commenter suggested, these smarter-than-you'd-think people love thanksgiving because it's a day when they see their families, and it's a day they try to give thanks for the good things in their world. I guess to them it trumps having a day of atonement for sins their ancestors committed.

Quite frankly a more impressive piece of atonement would be signing over the deeds to a few pieces of prime, anciently stolen real estate. Anyone willing to put their bungalow where their mouth is?

» Well said Posted by: slydad
» RE: Well said Posted by: ALANHESTER
» RE: Well said Posted by: slydad
» RE: too much credit? Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: too much credit? Posted by: RoffleTheWaffle
» RE: too much credit? Posted by: polyquat50
» RE: too much credit? Posted by: RoffleTheWaffle
» RE: too much credit? Posted by: Graeme
» RE: too much credit? Posted by: RoffleTheWaffle
» My facts are not in error. Posted by: slydad
» RE: too much credit? Posted by: ALANHESTER

Comments are closed-

HINDUTWA AND INDIA
[Report this comment]
Posted by: vivekanand on Nov 23, 2006 1:32 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Article is superb in its facts and spirit except one sentence about hindutwa and india.
the political movements in india based on hindutwa is almost similar to nazi movement. it's not a indigenous counter movement against indian state/emperor. it is more dangerous than indian state instead.

Please watch out.

» English Please? Posted by: edith
» RE: nglish Please? Posted by: countingdaisies
» RE: HINDUTWA AND INDIA Posted by: Scientz

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Here's an alternative Thanksgiving for you
[Report this comment]
Posted by: thinkingagain on Nov 23, 2006 1:37 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Have a look at this for an alternative to Thanksgiving, featuring another great American Hero

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Wrong Holiday
[Report this comment]
Posted by: NowhereToTurn on Nov 23, 2006 2:37 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The appropriate time for this diatribe would be Columbus Day.

» RE: Wrong Holiday Posted by: marxalot
» RE: Wrong Holiday Posted by: Scientz
» RE: Wrong Holiday Posted by: RoffleTheWaffle
» RE: Wrong Holiday Posted by: doinaheckuvajob

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Happy Thanksgiving
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Conservasaurus on Nov 23, 2006 3:36 AM   
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excellent article and alot of "food" for thought! Our treatment of the American Indians is beyond description.. While we have a strong focus on civil liberties, civil rights, for various minority groups I dont see Indians included in there in a big way. We still sweep that under the rug..

» RE: Happy Thanksgiving Posted by: YogiBear
» How mature of you. Posted by: Scientz
» Are You On Drugs? Posted by: Douglas
» RE: Are You On Drugs? Posted by: Scientz
» Myth of Genocidal Warfare Posted by: moflard

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Don't you ever just want to puke at this sort of political correctness?
[Report this comment]
Posted by: seanor54 on Nov 23, 2006 3:50 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Jensen appears to be the ultimate pc wimp. Attacking Thanksgiving to get his pygmy ideas some attention is pretty low. Time for Mr. Jensen to read the ultimate book for all liberals: How to Manage Your Dick

» What a man! Posted by: Sparks56
» RE: What a man! Posted by: mtnman
» RE: What a man! Posted by: blitzmesser
» struck a nerve Posted by: monkopotamus

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Thanksgiving
[Report this comment]
Posted by: john2006 on Nov 23, 2006 3:56 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What an idiot!! Didn't your mommy give you enough attention when you were a kid. This is ridiculous. It's always the white guy's fault. I'm sick of clowns like you. If you don't like this Country, get out!!

» Accept em all Posted by: edith
» RE: Thanksgiving Posted by: Conservasaurus
» Hooray for Conservasaurus Posted by: Douglas
» Like It or Not Posted by: Sparks56
» namecaller and taunter Posted by: monkopotamus

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A hefty helping of revisionism
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Moonray on Nov 23, 2006 4:01 AM   
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Give it a rest. When the European colonists arrived on these shores, the various native tribes in Massachusetts were engaged in a bitter struggle over territory, and murdered and enslaved each other routinely. They quickly recognized the superior weapons technology of the Europeans and began competing with each other to gain influence among the colonists -- and access to their weapons as well.

The European immigrants were indeed cruel and ruthless, but so were the natives. It was a rough world. To dwell on the sins of the newcomers while depicting the natives as gentle and noble savages motivated by only the purest motives is ridiculous and disingenuous. Worse, it undermines the credibility of serious historians who want to present an accurate picture of early America.

» Well said Posted by: kepstein7777
» hefty moron ray Posted by: monkopotamus
» RE: hefty moron ray Posted by: Scientz

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Let's Vow To Stop Our Destruction
[Report this comment]
Posted by: michaeltwatson on Nov 23, 2006 4:02 AM   
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I must admit that I am one of those who always preaches about the benefits of looking at history, but who also neglects to acknowledge that history when it does not serve my purpose. Your article has caused me to think about that.

While I agree that it sounds like blasphemy to suggest that Thanksgiving should be celebrated by fasting rather than by feasting, I do not think that it requires too much audacity to propose that, as part of our Thanksgiving, we ask our maker (whoever each of us believes that maker to be) to give us the wisdom never to allow ourselves to condone, promote or praise the type of human destruction that we engaged in to start this country. What better way to foster a new animus as a nation? Michael Townes Watson, author of America's Tunnel Vision--How Insurance Companies' Propaganda Is Corrupting Medicine and Law. www.AmericasTunnelVision.com

» Well Said Posted by: Sparks56
» HOLY SHIT! Posted by: AdamG
» RE: HOLY SHIT! AdamG- Posted by: SamFox

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existentialist thanksgiving
[Report this comment]
Posted by: edith on Nov 23, 2006 4:06 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
the holiday is what people make of it. Today. that a few people may mythologicalize the Pilgrims means nothing.

If anything Puritans have gotten a bad rap in the name pf PC politics, e.g., Miller's the Crucible, a great play but a poor leftwing rehash of history because A.Miller wanted to hit his McCarthyist tormentors where it hurt: in the stomach and in the vision of goodness the Puritans strove to meet but didn't. (Ironically the Communists, Miller's victim role models, also projected a vision of goodness that was never met and often was a mask over its antonymic Self.)

Every holiday is recreated and reinterpreted by each succecceding generation. Christmas is an excellent example in its transformation from a pagan Solstice to veneration of a deified human saviour to a commericial mix of a small town, snowy Dickensian atmosphre to today's millions of cars parked in bleak, treeless shopping mall spaces.

In a sense, it's irrelvant whether the Pilgrims were generous freedom fighters or grasping tightwards with racial prejudices shared by practically every caucasian(and many arabs) in the 17th century.

» Thanksgiving is abstract Posted by: kepstein7777

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MORE RACE-GUILT IDENTITY POLITICS FROM THE FAKE LEFT
[Report this comment]
Posted by: not_the_preferred_nomenclature on Nov 23, 2006 4:37 AM   
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White americans ARE native americans! We assimilated the natives who lived here. MOST of the native american DNA existing TODAY in america is in WHITE AMERICANS. We didn't kill them--they BECAME US.

Yes, the admixture rate of native american dna in all white Americans is 9.7 % on average.

So don't come around with your race-guilt overclas propaganda please. WE WHITE AMERICANS ARE NATIVE AMERICANS.

The overclass likes to split the races, the better to divide us, and fakeLeft overclass tools like alternet, PBS, The Nation, etc are all funded by large nonprofits started by plutocrats. This is not a conspiracy, but an ecosystem where quasi-organic entities compete to install ideology memes in brains.

And as always, I bring the data and evidence:
http://www.answers.com/topic/black-people-1
" Indeed, two thirds of white Americans have no detectable African ancestry at all (other than the ancient African ancestry shared by all members of our species, of course). Only one-third of white Americans have detectable African DNA (averaging 2.3 percent) from ancestors who passed through the endogamous color line from black to"

^ Mark D. Shriver and others, "Skin Pigmentation, Biogeographical Ancestry, and Admixture Mapping," Human Genetics, 112 (2003), 387-99.


http://www.backintyme.com/odr/about2356.html&highlight=

Actually, I don't have more information, Frank, although I have search for it. However, the number of Americans that have discovered theirs Native link is increasing. I estimate the American population is around 10% Native American in its autosomal DNA. Which make sense, given the U.S. has a larger European immigration than Latin America.

If so, that will show most Native Americans assimilated to the mainstream, and that the genocide was in a smaller scale that once though.



go here


But new genetic data shows that racial categories are far too broad. For one thing, there is more variation within a race than between races. A white person and a black person may be more genetically similar, measured by the amount of DNA they have in common, than two blacks, says the Journal:
About 30 percent of white Americans have enough non-European ancestry -- more than 10 percent -- to make self-reported race an unreliable indicator of their generic make-up.




http://backintyme.com/essay060401.htm
Presenting the Triumph of the One-Drop Rule
by Frank W Sweet
Presentation given at the Melungeon Conference, Frankfort KY, July 30, 2005
and at the Melungeon Sixth Union, Kingsport TN, June 8-10, 2006
A
t the 2004 Fifth Union, I presented DNA evidence that White Americans, just like other inhabitants of this hemisphere, are a genetic mix of European, Native American, and African ancestry. I showed that about one-third of White Anglo-Americans have African markers in their DNA from ancestors who were born into the U.S. Black community but then passed through the color line to redefine themselves as White. I say “Anglo-Americans” because we already knew that virtually all Hispanics and Muslim Americans are genetically mixed. What was interesting was learning that non-Hispanic White Americans were also mixed. The DNA evidence of this was uncovered in 2001 but it is has been confirmed by many studies and we have begun to see regional variations among groups.

» Reading is Fundamental Posted by: not_the_preferred_nomenclature
» You Seem To Be!!! Posted by: Douglas
» RE: You Seem To Be!!! Posted by: Scientz
» It's Not About DNA Posted by: Sparks56
» best for the laughs ! Posted by: monkopotamus
» Such Crap !!! Posted by: AdamSelene40

Comments are closed-

It's a day off work, stupid!
[Report this comment]
Posted by: colinmeister on Nov 23, 2006 4:55 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Thanksgiving is a day off work. Just like Memorial day, Labour Day, and Independence day.

For many people, these holidays are an excuse to kick back and take a few libations with family and friends.

I am an immigrant, and have absolutely no interest in American culture or the reasons for its national holidays. I do like a day off work occasionally, though, and any excuse for cooking a gourmet meal (In my case not turkey) is better than no excuse!

» No Interest? Posted by: Sparks56
» RE: No Interest? Posted by: colinmeister
» RE: No Interest? Posted by: Sparks56
» Then why post anything? Posted by: harpy
» ME TOOO, I nominate Ganja Day Posted by: Michiganman

Comments are closed-

Another Abuse
[Report this comment]
Posted by: wawa on Nov 23, 2006 5:04 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Where are you Amy Goodman?
Your 2004 interview with Vanunu is prime testimony against him on his FREEDOM of SPEECH trial.




On this Thanksgiving morning I received the following email from Mordechai Vanunu's brother, Meir:

Hi Eileen,

I just got an SMS from Mord, Thu 10am, saying the
police told him they will come to arrest him today. On Tuesday, the police called and said to him to come to Petah Tiqva for interogation.

The lawyer, Feldman, said he doesn't have to go there but they should take him if they want.

Meir


TONIGHT in London, my video interview with Vanunu:

"30 Minutes with Vanunu" will be one of many viewed in the House of Commons -YOU can see it FREE on WAWA:
http://www.wearewideawake.org




From the CAMPAIGN FOR A NUCLEAR-FREE MIDDLE EAST
C/o London Region CND, Mordechai Vanunu House, London N7 8DQ

www.vanunu.freeserve.co.uk

You are invited to a film show and public meeting:

AN EVENING WITH MORDECHAI VANUNU

Date: Thursday 23rd November
Time: 6.45-9pm
Place: Committee Room 9, House of Commons (Go through the main St. Stephen's entrance; allow quarter of an hour extra to go through security.)

The evening will consist of recent filmed interviews with Mordechai in East Jerusalem, contributions from long-time supporters, Susannah York and Jeremy Corbyn MP, an update on Mordechai's current situation from Campaign Coordinator Ernest Rodker, followed by questions and discussion on Mordechai, Israel and Palestine.

We look forward to enjoying your company at this event.

David Polden



Take action -- click
http://www.opednews.com/maxwrite/diarypage.php?did=2326

To send this message to your local newspaper and CONGRESS:
Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers. -Article 19/UDHR

» not germane Posted by: monkopotamus
» This post doesn't belong Posted by: harpy

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A Nation if Immigrants!
[Report this comment]
Posted by: numen on Nov 23, 2006 5:15 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Lovely to watch hypocrisy in action. Every other day, Alternet posts a screed complaining that we are trying to cut off the free flow of immigrants legal and illegal. Then once a year we get to see the results of just such a free flow of immigrants.

You can't inundate a land with people coming in from outside without destroying those who were here before.

» RE: A Nation if Immigrants! Posted by: Sparks56

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Alternet, you never disappoint
[Report this comment]
Posted by: eringhorm on Nov 23, 2006 5:28 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Just for kicks I decided to wander over here this morning and see if you'd decide to provoke a flamewar over the origins of the Thanksgiving holiday. I see that you have, and hey, more power to you.

Considering when my ancestors got to this country, I suppose I'm an original sinner by heritage as far as the treatment of native people goes. But here's a little clue: My ancestral homeland was invaded, too. Numerous times. Should I be asking Danes, Italians and French folks to flaggelate themselves now as a show of atonement? I think most would consider it absurd.

I've never understood why I should feel a sense of collective guilt for history I had no part in and have no way of undoing now. Native tribes were wiped out. Slavery happened. These are awful things, and certainly no one should be proud that their ancestors took part. But someone explain to me what good it does you now that I should punish myself for the sins of my forebears? I'd rather spend my time trying to just get along now.

Like I said, good on you for going all out with the humorless left thing. Hope it works out for you. Me? I'm going to go enjoy time with my family.

» Rent? Posted by: eringhorm
» A United family, is it? Posted by: Cathyc
» RE: A United family, is it? Posted by: eringhorm

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Have things really changed that much?
[Report this comment]
Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Nov 23, 2006 5:31 AM   
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American reservations are often the poorest regions of the country, which often happen to have mineral resources. In Arizona, the countries biggest coal company (Peabody) has been trashing Hopi and Navajo reservations for years. Most of that coal is burned to generate electricity; the Four Corners power plant is one of the largest in the US. 30% of it's output is taken by California, and it remains to be seen if the new anti-global warming law, AB32, will affect this.

Then there's the Yucca Mountain nuclear waste storage program. See Yucca Mountain, Nevada. Proposed High-Level Radioactive Waste Dump Targeted at Native American Land.
This boondoggle is a classic case of environmental racism - and is also geologically unsuitable for long-term storage of waste. The nuclear industry wants to rebuild nuclear power plants, but needs somewhere to dump the highly radioactive fuel rods after they become to dangerous to use.

The point is, if you want to go help out native peoples, then moping about some collective guilt on Thanksgiving day isn't the way to go. Write all your representatives and demand that they shut down the Yucca Mountain waste facility instead - that'll be more effective than abandoning Thanksgiving. Notice also that stopping global warming and nuclear proliferation is good for everyone.

The history of the environmental, economic and social effects of Peabody can be found at Peabody Energy Assaults Native Arizona, by Justin Stein.

The history of genocide in the Americas is well-documented, but doesn't fit in with the 'social conditioning' role of history in American education. In the eyes of the neocon warmongers and their ilk, history is supposed to glorify the nation's past and form the basis for blind obedience to the state. So, all you right-wingers can wave your flag and send your kids off to die in foreign wars for the financial benefit of your elite rulers. Fools and Tools!

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Awareness of the past & a vision for the future
[Report this comment]
Posted by: kathara12 on Nov 23, 2006 5:58 AM   
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Many people are making complementary points. We need to know our true history, because the lies that we are fed do affect our world view now. Thank you, AlterNet, for posting this article (although it's good to know from a few readers that the reference to India was erroneous and misplaced). At the same time, we transform our history through our deeds and attitudes now. This is why it's important to appreciate our blessings and enjoy those we spend time with today--while, at the same time, demonstrating kindness and compassion toward ALL.

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Are some uncomfortable in their whiteness? lol
[Report this comment]
Posted by: WhatNow? on Nov 23, 2006 6:11 AM   
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It's funny to see an article like this makes people uncomfortable. Some must not like their holiday being denigrated. Big deal!

I'm glad I have the day off especially considering I'm injured. I need rest.

I won't overeat. I rarely if ever do.

I will show a little thanks for the redskins that cared for this land and kept it such a wonderful place for a bunch of greedy Europeans to plunder. The white man may make this land a cesspool but you can be sure the natives never will. And for that I will thank them.

Oh yeah, this holidays signals there will soon be another bullshit holiday.

Happy holidays everybody!

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Thanksgiving
[Report this comment]
Posted by: isthatso on Nov 23, 2006 6:15 AM   
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Has anyone here been to a casino lately ? Seems like the Indian tribes are doing quite well adapting to today's world.

» Good but you forgot Posted by: Lloyd Drako
» sour grapes by loser Posted by: monkopotamus
» Very few do Posted by: harpy

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Hey! Thanks a lot!
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Posted by: Street Prophet on Nov 23, 2006 6:43 AM   
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Thanks for eviscerating the Constitution.

Thanks for bypassing habeas corpus.

Thanks for turning public schools into prisons.

Thanks for a police state.

Thanks for turning over public land to the U.N.

Thanks for outsourcing jobs.

Thanks for compromised media.

Thanks for dirty looks.

Thanks for genocide.

Thanks for taxes.

Thanks for corporations.

Thanks for if you don't like it get out of this country.

Thanks for pardoning turkeys.

Thanks for another in a long list of fake wars.

Thanks for the New World Order.

» Thanks for the memory.... Posted by: Cathyc

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America's High Holy Days
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Posted by: Lloyd Drako on Nov 23, 2006 6:47 AM   
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should be joined by a new one: June 25, the anniversary of the Little Big Horn. On that day, we will all whoop and holler and don paint and feathers and little children will go door to door chanting Lakota war cries and demanding pemmican and whisky in exchange for not torching the house and tomahawking everyone inside, and we will all have backyard buffalo barbecues with squash and pumpkin and succotash, and retailers will benefit hugely from advance sales of Yellow Hair wigs (for ease of scalping) and decorated lodgepoles for the front yard and cards wishing near and dear ones a joyous First Americans Day. There, now we're even.

By the way, one should not confuse John Winthrop's Puritan Massachusetts Bay Colony with the earlier Plymouth Colony which in general was much more benign in its treatment of the locals.

Now let's all dig in and don't forget to let out your belt.

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Wait A Minute
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Posted by: NoPCZone on Nov 23, 2006 7:01 AM   
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It's been years since college and I had almost forgotten how removed from reality some academics are. This guy should sit down with Ward Churchill- the hot air alone could melt all the glaciers in Alaska.

Thanksgiving is a day of remembrance and thankfulness for what we have. Like a lot of other facets of our history, it was birthed in the ugliness of a different time by people who should have known better. We cannot undo that past for far too much time has past and the people harmed have long since departed this life.

The Thanksgiving Holiday, in it's official form, was begun by President Lincoln during the Civil War although it had been widely, but not universally, celebrated prior to that time. Like all things in American life, it has evolved over time.

The stories of the Pilgrims have become the creation myth of the US and whitewashed the grave injustice visited upon those already immigrated here when european settlers arrived. That's right- the 'Native' Americans came from Asia and the 'Invaders' came from Europe- neither was sourced in this hemisphere, Mr Professor.

Question, Mr Professor: Just how many generations does one's DNA need to reside in a place before one is considered native? Before you answer, think and tell me this: on what basis do you make the judgement necessary to answer that question.

The plain and simple fact is that we all have things that we can be thankful for; regardless of our race, ethnicity, sex, orientation, situation, faith, or nationality. The attitude of being thankful is a very good thing. It can be as simple as recognizing all of the bounty we largely take for granted. It should also be tinged with remembrance of the evils done in the name of progress, conquest and manifest destiny.

My sincere hope is that this day you are in a safe & peaceful place, surrounded by people you love, in good health and spirit, living in grace with mercy toward others. Sometime during this day, remember all that we as Americans have that many lack. Remember all the people who have bravely faced down oppression to remake America into a more fair and equitable place. Remember the sacrifice that your ancestors have made so that you could have opportunity beyond any that they ever had. And remember the suffering of people oppressed in times past as well as this very hour, because they lack so many of the things we are blessed with.

We can all be thankful, we should all be thankful, we should also hope for the day that all people have good reason to be thankful. That's what this day means to me.

» RE: Wait A Minute Posted by: kittynboi
» answer mr no-pc-zone: (pc=iq) Posted by: monkopotamus

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We all live on stolen land.
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Posted by: leerhok on Nov 23, 2006 7:05 AM   
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Every single person on earth lives on land once (or rather several times) conquered by means of genocide or ethnical cleansing or both!
After some time (say one hundred years) reversing such an incident becomes the greater evil and status quo the lesser - as the present Israel so sadly proves!

» RE:Stolen Land Posit Posted by: NoPCZone
» false... try reading a book sometime Posted by: monkopotamus
» Wrong Again Posted by: NoPCZone
» Perps & Victims Posted by: Cathyc
» RE: Perps & Victims Posted by: Lauren
» ego problems cloud article Posted by: monkopotamus

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Exc point, I'm unsubscribing
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Posted by: pzo on Nov 23, 2006 7:33 AM   
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I consider myself a liberal and work for social justice. But I get SO tired of PC, self-flagellating, angst laden, liberalism.

Yes, we need to help Indians (their preferred term, not the liberal's "Native American) attain economica and social equality. But we can't undo history.

Alternet's open door policies for Mexicans and closed door for what has already happened, indeed, shows the hypocrisy.

I'm unsubscribing.

» hear no evil Posted by: monkopotamus
» Don't know any Indians... Posted by: YinRising
» Who said you weren't a teacher? Posted by: YinRising

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And, pro-choice says...
[Report this comment]
Posted by: ABetterFuture on Nov 23, 2006 7:43 AM   
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...that the author is more than justified in feeling whatever emotion he chooses today.

It is entertaining to watch, however, his idea that others should share in his belief structure bounce happily over and past the bounds of credibility.

On the other hand, if he can dig up a 500 year old Pilgrim and a suitable target for an apology, he is more than welcome to waste his time doing so. I suggest, however, that in the interest of comprehensiveness, he start with Pharoah first.

Oops. Was that not PC?

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Bah
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Logic's Edge on Nov 23, 2006 7:49 AM   
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Is there anything Alternet authors won't attack? Why don't you get out and actually do something if you're so pissed with state of the world. Or go lock yourselves in closets if the world is such a horrible place and you want to feel guilty and responsible for everything that's happened since the start of time.

» poor guilty bah Posted by: monkopotamus

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Indians killed more Europeans than vice-versa
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Posted by: albrechtkrausse on Nov 23, 2006 7:53 AM   
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I know its not 'politically correct', since white people are the most evil thing ever (really the Chinese term "white devil" is an appropriate term), BUT I'll state the facts anyway:
the Indians ('native Americans') killed more white people (Europeans) than were killed by them. Facts:

1) Syphyllis came to Europe (i.e. 'evil white people') from the 'new world'. Until penicillin there was no cure for it (other than not screwing around but you know how effect that is for evil whites.)

2) They gave Europe (evil whitey) tobacco. Lung cancer, emphesema, throat cancer, and mouth cancer kills more people worldwide EVERY YEAR (including evil white people) than the evil white people killed upon visiting the 'new world'. This 'crop' has has decimated the environment due to single-crop planting, soil depletion, and its uses as a PESTICIDE historically (actually KILLING Giai's children!)

3) Potatoes came from the 'new world'. This resulted in segments adopting this food as their primary staple (including the MOST evil because they are white and CATHOLIC the Irish.) Once the blight started MANY evil Irish catholics died.

» RE: What Bull Manure This Post Is!!! Posted by: albrechtkrausse
» Jonathan Swift You Are Not Posted by: Douglas
» RE: Jonathan Swift You Are Not Posted by: albrechtkrausse
» try re-reading... more carefully Posted by: monkopotamus
» How Socratic of you. Posted by: Scientz
» Deluded Yes, But Evil? Posted by: Douglas

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I'm still eating turkey today
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Posted by: AdamG on Nov 23, 2006 8:00 AM   
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Fast all you want if you really feel that guilty.

On my mothers side of the family, I am desendant from Captain John Smith. On my father's side, my relatives came from Mexico. They have a high percentage of native blood, Huichol and Tzetzal specifically. I am directly desendant from a brother of Emiliano Zapata. Does that mean my mom and dad cancel each others guilt trip and that it's OK for me to be thankful to be in America?

I want to point out, the Native Americans weren't always native and weren't always the virtuous beings we potray them to be. When mongoloid peoples came across the Bering Straits, this continent had been habited by animals for millions of years. In the first few hundred years of colonialisation by these mongoloid peoples, many animals, especially large land mammals, went extinct. Mere coincidence? Probably not. Also, through the use of fire to clear land and scare game, the landscape was greatly altered. Why not on this continent, it is thought the Aborgines of Australia drastically altered the terrain there with the overuse of fire and made a good portion of desert that was once forested. Native Hawaiians were just as bad. When Polynesians reached the Hawaiian islands, they brought dogs, pigs, and slash/burn/taro agriculture. They greatly altered that landscape. Many endemic ground nesting birds were driven to extinction.

We have come to a point in the history of humanity where there are virtually none of us without blood on our hands. I think it would be more constructive to acknowledge each others history, even the bad part, and move forward. There are many issues that are in urgent need of attention. If we all don't start working on these things together, we are all doomed.

» Congratulate yer bad self! Posted by: Lloyd Drako
» We are ALL? doomed?? Posted by: Cathyc

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We Should Atone For Native American Genocide
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Posted by: Douglas on Nov 23, 2006 8:22 AM   
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Professor Robert Jensen has done us a great service by reminding us of the genocide that marked the creation of this nation. There is nothing controversial about the story he tells and by now it should be accepted by all. It has been more than a century and a quarter since the publication of Helen Hunt Jackson's A Century of Dishonor, a book that documented the genocide of native American peoples. It has been thirty five years since the publication of Dee Bowen's definitive and meticulously researched Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee, a book which even more fully documents the genocide that marked the development of this nation. It is very disheartening that so many people who consider themselves "progressives" are still "in denial" about this matter. The failure of the public schools to honestly teach about the genocide of native American peoples in American history courses is part of the problem. Until the American public knows and can honestly acknowledge its genocidal past it is likely that we shall continue to repeat it. Our nation's slaughter of Filipino insurgents after the Spanish American war, the slaughter of two million Vietnamese and Cambodians in the 1960s and 70s, the current slaughter of one out of every seventy Iraqis, and the continued US funding and approval of Israel's genocide of the Palestinians, all of these suggest that we have not yet been able to admit to and atone for our past dishonourable treatment of native Americans. Until we are capable as a nation of admitting and atoning for our past "crimes" against native Americans we are likely to continue committing crimes against other peoples. Thanks to Robert Jensen for including some "truth telling" on this Thanksgiving Day!!

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Bad editorial judgment
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Raoul Duke 63 on Nov 23, 2006 8:33 AM   
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As others have pointed out, some in less than comradely terms, this story represents exactly the sort of kernel-of-truth conflated into a rigid and tedious moral posture that marginalizes the Left in mainstream American political culture. (In fact, to be truly conspiratorial about it, one could wonder whether such "stories" are regularly planted by our opponents on the Right.) It is difficult to endorse self-censorship of such views. However, as progressives are perhaps once again gaining a foothold in national politics, it would might behoove media outlets like Alternet not to present views like the ones in this story as widely representative of this community's views. The editors at Alternet should have run this story, in other words, as a sidebar, not as the headline feature that they did.

» RE: Bad editorial judgment Posted by: kittynboi
» RE: Bad editorial judgment Posted by: Raoul Duke 63
» Progressive Racism Posted by: StuartH
» RE: Progressive Racism Posted by: Raoul Duke 63
» Why? Make you feel guilty Posted by: harpy
» RE: Why? Make you feel guilty Posted by: Raoul Duke 63

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Bad editorial judgment
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Raoul Duke 63 on Nov 23, 2006 8:35 AM   
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As others have pointed out, some in less than comradely terms, this story represents exactly the sort of kernel-of-truth conflated into a rigid and tedious moral posture that marginalizes the Left in mainstream American political culture. (In fact, to be truly conspiratorial about it, one could wonder whether such "stories" are regularly planted by our opponents on the Right.) It is difficult to endorse self-censorship of such views. However, as progressives are perhaps once again gaining a foothold in national politics, it might behoove media outlets like Alternet not to present views like the ones in this story as widely representative of this community's views. The editors at Alternet should have run this story, in other words, as a sidebar, not as the headline feature that they did.

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an Indian viewpoint
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Posted by: ellie on Nov 23, 2006 8:37 AM   
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just got the bird in the oven and we are planning both turkey and frybread today with family favorites... seems that there has been a lot of guilt ridden comments posted during the time I first pulled down this story this morning and now have time to reply...

in my family and with friends, we consider thanksgiving either 'there goes the neighborhood day' or a fall harvest feed... all are welcome at my house whenever they are hungry, no set time for a sit down meal, we are greatful for the food but also that we survived another years attempt at forced assimilation, racial profiling and institutionalized racism...

we are still here, we do not want to assimilate, we prefer to be known by our tribal nation affiliation, we morn for our dead, hug our living and do our damndest to keep out identity theft...

we are here today, not just in stereotypical and innacurate history books, but are vibrant sovereign nations with non Indians living around us... we have many of our oral histories intact, we give credit where due and refuse to give up...

just some of my own thoughts,
Ellie, PhD
Member, Rosebud Sioux Tribe of South Dakota

» RE: an Indian viewpoint Posted by: YogiBear
» ironic Posted by: monkopotamus
» ironic Posted by: monkopotamus
» Thank you for doing that Posted by: harpy
» RE: an Indian viewpoint Posted by: WitchyNy
» RE: an Indian viewpoint Posted by: mjabele
» RE: an Indian viewpoint Posted by: Gma1

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This day
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Posted by: fifthworld on Nov 23, 2006 8:38 AM   
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It's interesting to note that Native Americans, here in NM and all over, celebrate Thxgiving as much - or more authentically and sincerely - than many others on this day. Unfortunately it's a commercial holiday and so it is crass and superficial on one side. But it's an opportunity for humble expression of thanks to the Creator, and all else that sustains - even through murderous invasions and occupations past and present.

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Atonement and Thanksgiving
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Posted by: tiellis on Nov 23, 2006 8:40 AM   
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We need both. There is nothing wrong with giving thanks, with gratitude for the food we eat, the material comforts we enjoy, the constitutional rights we (used to) enjoy, and the living planet we inhabit, regardless of the historical mythology that led to this holiday. And there is much to be said for a Day of Atonement...for everyone.

As for historical mythology, it is important to remember that every nation on Earth has its self-serving foundational myths, its rationalizations, and its skeletons in the closet. We are hardly alone in that respect.

So while Jensen's observation is correct--that the genocide of Native Americans was central to the agenda of the European settlers who established this nation--this large-scale atrocity is not unique to us either. The Japanese likewise slaughtered the Ainu; the Russians, the Siberian peoples and the Kulaks; the Turks, the Armenians; the Ancient Israelites, the Canaanites, and so on ad nauseam. Genocide is a recurrent historical process, whenever one ethnicity with a technological edge decides it wants another ethnicity's land. The Bantu people, after all, once they alone developed metallurgy, happily proceeded to slaughter and displace all the other stone-age (i.e. non-metallurgical) cultures they encountered as they quickly spread throughout subsaharan Africa, leaving only marginal groups like the Hottentots and Kalihari Bush peoples on marginal lands.

So we all need to give thanks, and we all need to atone. Why not have a feast on Thanksgiving, and a fast the day after?

» The Kulaks Posted by: Lloyd Drako

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I'm a Jewish American Vegan
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Posted by: veggiegrrrl on Nov 23, 2006 8:50 AM   
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I'm a Jewish American Vegan and Thanksgiving weekend is time to make great vegan food for friends and family and a 4-day weekend. Woo Hoo. I am thankful for all my vegan and vegetarian friends, vegan food, and time away from the job. Thanksgiving is also the weekend I clean out my closets and do my "Spring Cleaning." I will be donating clothes and such to the homeless in San Francisco. I give away what is no longer useful to those who are needy.

Yes, we commmitted genocide to get this land. And yes, we are committing genocide all over the planet in the name of "freedom." But let us look at our personal genocide when every year, we murder and eat billions of animals who suffer and die in agony.

» RE: I'm a Jewish American Vegan Posted by: blitzmesser

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nothing like proving his point...
[Report this comment]
Posted by: maddy on Nov 23, 2006 9:03 AM   
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These comments are loaded with the very justifications, denials, evasions, and apoplectic fits Jensen predicted.

The apoplectic fits are obvious: the trolls who can do nothing but sputter, name call, and reduce everything to a dick fight.

But, why is it so easy for the other folks here to slip into the false logic that to understand our past is to "blame" the currently living? To *refuse* to see the past, in all its ugliness, *is* an act of complicity. But it's not about whether any contemporary white person is to "blame." The leap to that position exposes the magnitude of white denial and this perverse insistence that all contemporary conversations about race--even about irrefutable acts of horror from the past--must prioritize white comfort. The almost-childlike outbursts of "it's not my fault, it's not my fault" are so revelatory. White comfort is more important than the genocide itself. The racial narcissism of that is staggering.

Love also the nonsensical search for excuses. Like the one who attacked the professor for not acknowledging that the Indians were, because they were from Asia, not indigeneous. Well, explain to me why that historical fact is relevant to his argument? Of course, the implication lurking there is that if they were "immigrants" too, then they had no claim to the land, and therefore Europeans we're justified in slaughtering them?

You find simillar b.s. arguments from those who point to the fact that African tribe leaders sold prisoners of war into the Mid-Atlantic Slave Trade. Such folks "use" that fact to imply that white slaveowners (and by extension, those making this argument) cannot be "blamed" or "condemned" for slavery. Notice the frequency of these types of evasions in this message board: "other conquering nations did it, too, other nations did it, too!"

I teach about race, I write about race... I live race. And I am still astounded by whites' consistent refusal to see their own whiteness--to realize how much it shapes what they are willing to "see" and what, on the flip side, they will be forced to "justify away" if some liberal-professor dare tries to make them see.

What amazes me is the transparency of all this blustering--the resentment of having to acknowledge the loss and suffering of those who are not like you. The fury over someone asking you to understand this holiday's origins and mythical implications does amount to a refusal to mourn those who were slaughtered. Their humanity gets in the way of your turkey and gravy.

But, don't worry, you have a right to be angry: how dare a professor challenge your sense of innocence!

» Eloquence is not arrogance Posted by: theracerace
» YOGI steals picnic baskets..... Posted by: Michiganman
» namecalling Posted by: monkopotamus
» RE: namecalling Posted by: Scientz
» unfothamable Posted by: monkopotamus
» RE: unfothamable Posted by: Scientz
» Lying is a bad habit Posted by: YogiBear
» struck a nerve Posted by: monkopotamus
» Great Point Posted by: StuartH
» AGREE 10,000% Maddy Posted by: Michiganman

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Put your money where your mouth is . . . .
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Posted by: JCR on Nov 23, 2006 9:08 AM   
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All ye of good faith and not-so-sound conscience can actually do something to atone for the sins of your ancestors, even if they weren't present in America for the genocidal orgy visited upon the Native American Indians.

The Native American Rights Fund is (still, I believe) locked in an ongoing lawsuit with the US Government seeking damages upwards of 100 billion dollars in restitution in consideration of stolen lands, resoures and human lives. There is most certainly a need for donations to fund that or other litigation. If this lawsuit is no longer ongoing there are normally hundreds taking place at any given time where donations would most certainly be welcomed. So all you big talkers saddled with the guilt of your ancestors murderous ways can actually do something to atone. "Put your money where your mouth is" comes to mind. Funny how having to do so usually shuts people up rather quickly. Let's see if we actually get any takers.

chirp, chirp, chirp . . .



BTW, will the Spanish, Portuguese, French, British, Dutch, Germans, etc, etc. all be joining us at the great table of shame, eating a big slice of humble pie? Shall the Japanese be joining us as well? How about Russia? Let's have a World Day of Atonement wherein modern day Mongolians apologize to Austria and descendants of the Kievan Russians for their butcherous orgy and modern day Assyrians apologize to modern day Phoenicians for slaves their ancestors may or may not have taken. This is not my justification for any kind of genocidal behavior mind you. I find it as distasteful and nauseating as the next guy but flame away . . .

» thanks for making my point Posted by: monkopotamus
» put my monkey where your mouth is Posted by: monkopotamus
» You Make A Very Good Point Posted by: Douglas

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Thank you for this Thanksgiving article.
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Posted by: WitchyNy on Nov 23, 2006 9:10 AM   
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My family will be eating Tofurky. For those of you who have not tried it...it is very yummy. My teenage boys love it.

Also pumpkin pie, potatoes, corn, -all Native American foods..for which we are grateful.

Then we will watch Al Gore's movie. Also Robert Redford's movie about Leonard Peltier. And John Trudell's DVD- which can be purchased on line.

Thank you Native Americans for this beautiful land.
I am sorry for all the horrid unjust things that have happened in the past, and the horrid things that continue to this day.

As a progressive person- I work to be a part of the solution...by working to be a better person and by working for social change and environmental justice, in my country...and in all the world.

» Thanks! Posted by: Graeme

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Good Article
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Soco on Nov 23, 2006 9:28 AM   
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And a better reason I can't buy this type of liberal ideology.

Being of Scottish decent as well as Cherokee "Injun" I am reminded of the English treatment of the Scots and Highland Clearances as well as the "Trail of Tears." My ancestors intermarried and here I am. Should I loathe the white part of me or hate the Injun part? This asinine white guilt of the left basically means you are supposed to be punished for the sins of the father (Or by issue of blood). Bad shit happened everywhere and this type of rhetoric renews the false/mythic idea of the "Noble Savage." Indians were also a great people and they also sold themselves out just like the Scottish landed gentry screwed other Scots. The lesson is the corruption of power and wealth. Our cherished ideas about civilization and what it is, is corrupt. The Scots, Irish, Angles and Saxons looked and acted similar to the Indian Tribes of America. Roman thought was the factor that subdued and corrupted them in later generations. Rome lives and until it dies as an ideal, we're screwed. Civilization destroys humanity and separates us from nature. We all threw culture out the door for consumerism rather than citizenry.

I'm wearing my kilt AND burning sage. What little culture I have left, I'll continue to try to celebrate it.

Let's be moderates rather than right-wing wingnuts and self-loathing liberals who prefer being victims in every facet of life.

» RE: Good Article Posted by: ethanay
» RE: Good Article Posted by: Graeme

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If cry0fan could elucidate, we might see he has a point...
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Scientz on Nov 23, 2006 9:38 AM   
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...and that the "left" would be far better served in focusing on winnable battles like socialized medicine, then moving on to proportional representation.

As it stands, these divisive, bleeding-heart non-issues divide the left more than they do any political good.

The "left" is being used, much as the "right" uses the Christian evangelicals. However, its much easier to expose the "right's" hypocrisy by outing a Mark Foley or Ted Haggard than it is to unite the left under the banner of a worthwhile issue.

» My Goodness, What Nonsense Posted by: Graeme
» Racist? Wow. Posted by: Scientz
» Maybe "comedian" then (1) Posted by: Graeme
» (2) Posted by: Graeme

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Thanksgiving
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Posted by: Camin Harner on Nov 23, 2006 9:43 AM   
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I remember Alternet doing this last year too. Look, it saddens me that so much of American history is replete with some pretty unsavory truths we rarely face up to. We progressives are right to bring these delicate truths to the attention of those still convinced of our nation's purity and innocence.

But. Screeds like that above leave me cold. Few of us enjoy being lectured at. Uncomfortable truths are best received when leavened with humor and sympathy for the reader. Jensen's piece is as dry as a turkey left in the oven too long and as humorless as a Pilgrim church father who comes across kids playing strip poker on the Sabbath.

What's a better way, Alternet editorial staff, of reaching potentially sympathetic readers? Or do you have no choice but to come across as priggish scolds? Maybe in 2007 you'll publish an essay that builds on the concept of "giving thanks" and addresses how we might use our culture's Thanksgiving traditions to build toward a future more just than our past.

» RE: Thanksgiving Posted by: ethanay
» RE: Thanksgiving Posted by: JAXC
» RE: Thanksgiving Posted by: blitzmesser
» RE: Thanksgiving Posted by: Camin Harner
» RE: Thanksgiving Posted by: blitzmesser

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Definitely NOT just a day off
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Posted by: theracerace on Nov 23, 2006 9:45 AM   
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It seems a lot of folks here have missed the very point of addressing the past. If dredging up all this history disturbs you, then you can be sure that you're looking in the right place.

In the article, the author says exactly why it is vital to acknowledge what has happened:

"U.S. elites have a clear stake in the contemporary propaganda value of that history. Obscuring bitter truths about historical crimes helps perpetuate the fantasy of American benevolence, which makes it easier to sell contemporary imperial adventures -- such as the invasion and occupation of Iraq -- as another benevolent action.

Yes, of course -- that is exactly what I would hope to achieve. We should practice the virtue of humility and avoid the excessive pride that can, when combined with great power, lead to great abuses of power. "


Thank you, Robert, for this excellent article.

» The sins of the father Posted by: theracerace

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Few mistatemetnts of facts
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Posted by: ReallyBearish on Nov 23, 2006 10:07 AM   
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For starters, the elimination of the native American population began well before the Pilgrims and had little to do with them. The force in question was European disease. Native Americans had the sense to incorporate Europeans into their tribes early on to keep numbers up, but remember, when the Pilgrims arrived, they simply took over land of people that had died of disease. Had they not died off, the Pilgrims chance of success would have been much the same as the earlier Viking settlers.

One problem for the Indians was the character of the people arriving from Europe. America was a dumping ground for criminals, and a good many lived up to their reputation. Having said that it should be noted that the Native tribes were "enablers" of the distruction. The Pequot nation could only be destroyed with the help of Narragansett allies, even if they had second thoughts later on.

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Myth, anti-myth
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Posted by: hagwind on Nov 23, 2006 10:29 AM   
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Trouble is, those who set out to explode, critique, bash, deconstruct, or otherwise counter a myth so often create an anti-myth in the process. One excess is succeeded by another. I guess we'll get to a synthesis sooner or later, but for now I'd recommend Nathaniel Philbrick's 2006 book Mayflower, which does a pretty good job dealing with both the myth and the history.

» RE: Myth, anti-myth Posted by: JAXC

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purpose of mythmaking?
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Posted by: ethanay on Nov 23, 2006 10:39 AM   
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that original thanksgiving myth is exactly what I, my siblings, and my parents and their siblings were taught in grade school. Just between us, it indicates that the myth exists across decades and vast areas of space--something deeply culturally engrained in us.

Why? Perhaps it helps us rationalize the shit we're doing today...Iran, Nicaragua, Venezuela, Iraq, etc.

I'm not saying that any one person or group of people "planned" to brainwash the masses for this purpose, but maybe our culture itself has a consciousness that seeks self-preservation through these otherwise-unecessary, unethical and violent acts.

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JAXC—Making Progressive Another Term for Left-Wing Nut
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Posted by: JAXC on Nov 23, 2006 10:48 AM   
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Twisting a worthy subject into a bomb to excite weird feelings, both in himself and others.

» What Kind of Nut Are You??? Posted by: Douglas

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Indian's Today: Turned Into a "Racket" in the White Man's World
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Posted by: sofla100 on Nov 23, 2006 11:48 AM   
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In America, we have far fewer holidays then the Europeans so having a day off to relax and "give thanks" with family is not a bad thing. As for atonement, genocide, etc., I don't have a problem with acknowledging the harm done to the Indians. But, nowadays, things are not like they were in the 1600's, we would all have to acknowledge the world is vastly different. As for Indians, if you want to say you are a REAL INDIAN, can you actually show a pure bloodline going all the way back with no intermarriage? Doubtful, isn't it? Not only that, I know about the casinos which are generating a lot of money, but just how many of them are actually run or supervised by big gaming (read mafioso) companies out of Las Vegas? As for "real Indians," I noticed one so-called here who had to note PhD next to the name. So, do you have to obtain "white man's" credetials then to really be legit? I am a bit afraid modern day Indian civilization has degenerated. The purity and authenticity of being an Indian has been lost. Perhaps it was at Little Big Horn or someplace else, I don't know. But, it seems now the way to be "an Indian," with the gaming, mineral leases, etc., has turned into a racket. A racket in the White Man's World.

» Real Indian (tm) Posted by: theracerace
» RE: Real Indian (tm) Posted by: rg
» RE: eal Indian (tm) Posted by: babs

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I'll have mine with a side of relish
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Posted by: kaboodle on Nov 23, 2006 1:08 PM   
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This is the most pathetic bunch of sorry stay-at-home by-yourself nuthin else to do bunch of whinning crap I have embarrassed myself by reading...(yeah I know so why dignify it with a response right?). To me Thanksgiving, or rather thanksgiving is the only worthwhile day of observance we as humans engage in...yes, we are damn lucky in all senses and it is a day that all aborignal cultures, supremacists, pagans, druids, agnostics, vikings, average white, brown, black and red people have been celebrating since we could stand semi-erect and clobber mastadons...and we should be celebrating....there is much to be thankful for whether it be the bounty of our lives (and I am not talking material bounty), our over-sized brains, our capacity for love...I am talking about our collective creativity, the fact that we can stand on a wind-swept coastline and experience the power and beauty of it like no other being, I am talking about the thousands of people serving warm meals to less fortunate friends across the country...ok, so this little missive is perhaps abit overwrought, but please....telling people to stay home and atone instead of joining with friends, family and fellow-humans in a celebration of our good-fortune is like denouncing Father's Day because a few bad fathers have beat and raped their children....I say shove your PC-ness up your butt and shut up.

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The real story of Thanksgiving
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Posted by: slydad on Nov 23, 2006 1:33 PM   
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Headline: Indians Not a Racket
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Posted by: StuartH on Nov 23, 2006 3:15 PM   
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I am a person of Anglo descent. For about two years I have lived on the Navajo Nation in Arizona.

What I see is something other than white stereotypes and the people that are struggling to overcome poverty, and retain language and culture and achieve self-determination and prosperity in the 21st Century are hardly a "white man's racket."

What really amazes me is that Indians can be the subject of so much uninformed comment by whites who think nothing of asserting opinions, no matter how little knowledge informs them.

To me, the hallmark of being intelligent is to stick with what a recent (!) Bush Administration official would call "known knowns."

The media has no interest in portraying any Native Americans outside of stereotypes. This is best illustrated by that map of the continent as seen from New York with San Francisco in the far distance and nothing between.

» Reply (1) Posted by: Graeme
» RE: eply (1) Posted by: JCR
» RE: eply (1) Posted by: JCR
» (2) Posted by: Graeme

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Atonement
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Posted by: blitzmesser on Nov 23, 2006 4:09 PM   
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"
Instead, we should atone for the genocide that was incited -- and condoned -- by the very men we idolize as our 'heroic' founding fathers. "

Yes. We need to know our history and be humble as human beings, no matter where we came from.

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Indian Culture is Gone, Like Dust in the Wind
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Posted by: sofla100 on Nov 23, 2006 4:39 PM   
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Here in Florida, the Micousoukee Indians run several gaming casinos and have reservation property in the Everglades. However, the Miccousoukee were never the original Indians in this area, those Indians are long gone. Now, I have no problem acknowledging the crimes committed against the Indians by the settlers and down to the current time. But, what I see with the Micousoukee, is how some Las Vegas companies hooked up with a few of them, promoted to tribal chief who they wanted, and bingo, roll in the cash. Perhaps not such a bad thing, but is it somewhat exploitive still of the Indians? And, I see fights to "claim Indian blood," I guess you have to prove 1/6th or something to get some casino profits. Look, I do respect those who want to try to live in the old ways. Perhaps a few still exist in some remote parts of a few reservations. But the original Indian society, based on a spiritual kinship with nature, pre-technological society, pre-roads, pre-TV, pre-White, we have to be honest that it is long gone, like dust in the wind. I don't think a compatability is possible between say an Indian Shaman on a reservation with Indian headdress and ornaments in one room, and HDTV and a microwave in the other. The beliefs, the thinking, the society, are all vastly different. Just learning the old language and dancing the old dances is not the culture either. What is lost, is lost, and I am afraid today's Indians are represented by society not much better then a wood carved Indian in front of a general store. So, if we pay respect or homage I think it should be more to what once was, not pretending that the pathetic remnants of today are anything near the original. I mean, gambling casinos and cheap cigarettes, is that all there is nowadays?

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Cry me a river
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Posted by: davidrice on Nov 23, 2006 7:49 PM   
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Okay, I get it. But what bizarre childdhood are you recovering from to have to bring the ants to the Thanksgiving picnic? And Alternet: why do you have to lead your page with this crap? There's no question the big bad white man conquered the natives and the holiday is a sham and all that. But what the hell is new in the world? How about just including on your list off things you're thankful for the fact you ancestors were on the prevailing side oif the conflict!

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An obvious parody
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Posted by: jjason on Nov 24, 2006 3:59 AM   
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"Day of Atonement"????!!!!!!
Harharharharharharhar!!!
Do the other posters really believe this pinko sissy is for real?

How about "All white males should cut off their penises on Xmas Eve!" Why? Generic badness!!
Harharharharharharharharhar!!!!

Alternet ran a silly send-up of themselves, and you suckers fell for it!!!
Harharharharharharhar!!!!
Pinko sissies rule!!!!

» Pinko sissies rule!!!! Posted by: jjason
» Let's try again Posted by: maddy
» RE: Let's try again Posted by: rg
» RE: Let's try again Posted by: maddy
» Poke out your own eyes!! Posted by: jjason

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don't do unto others as you would not do unto thy self
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Posted by: mobile68 on Nov 24, 2006 8:01 AM   
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the whole thing that everybody in this post is seeming to miss is this: until white people have the things they have done to people of color be done unto them, only then will they understand the suffering they have brought on people of color around the world.
if all people of color were to leave north america and go back to their homelands today and the people of european descent were to stay behind, the white people who don't come from old money or not part of the 3% that controll 97% of the money in the world would see their rich white counterparts for who they really are, isn't that's why your european ancestors came over to america 400+ years ago in the first place? to escape that same oppression that was being thrust upon them yet come over to america to only do the same to those who don't look like them?

so go ahead and continue to blame people of color for all the problems in the world since there are so many more of them that it is people of white descent. maybe that's what is fueling white people's fear, of losing control and provoking that fear onto people of color. the fact that you all are in the position that you're in is because you have to maintain the status quo of your ill-gotten gains.

look at why is there a need for so many us military and a few other european military bases around the world? to protect corporate america's intrests thats it. the natives of the countries that america are "protecting" are still lacking clean water, decent housing, sanitation systems, adeqate food supplies, and tribal feuds are still raging on.
the collective thought of most white people is that white skin is of more value than any other color of skin, which is evident by the american coroporations that use people of color in other countries than people from europe to manufacture their products for slave like wages.

just like with that michael richards incident last week proves that he had to be taught that people of color are beneath him to maintain his narcisstic mental state that prevails in white society. and how the msm try to compare what he did to what o.j. simpson did. not that what either did was right. there was no other justification for doing what he did.

until white people are capable of empathy and own up to all their history, is see no reason for celebrating thanksgiving (thanksgiving s/b called thanksurrending) until all people are free from european subjugation, domination, and oppression.

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Thanksgiving - Your article sure hit a sore spot with the herd
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Posted by: Aimee on Nov 24, 2006 9:50 AM   
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Thanks for writing about Thanksgiving. Judging by the comments that have been generated by your piece, you have hit a nerve. Perhaps because of the Thanksgiving day theme. We have all been indoctornated by school and parents well.

For us Thanksgiving day is just a day off for workers. Yes, it is also a time to get together with family and friends. We made sure to stay away from the Republican racists torture endorsing types.

But we are thankful that the Republicans LOST control of the House and Senate. We hope that the real Republicans will demand that Bush and Cheney RESIGN. Quick. We are all being taken down. America needs to switch to a Peace Economy.

And we did steal this land we call America from the Indians.

Happy holidays. Try to be humane. May you all never be detained and tortured.

Aimee

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No turkey for you!!!
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Posted by: jjason on Nov 24, 2006 9:55 AM   
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Pass the poopoo pie, Whitey!!!

» Pass the poopoo pie!! Posted by: jjason
» PINKO SISSIES RULE!!!!!!! Posted by: jjason

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baby troll
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Posted by: babs on Nov 24, 2006 2:37 PM   
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jjason (might wanna have that stutter checked out) has just learned to use a computer! Did the attendants at the sanitarium let you out of your restraints for the day? I know, it's hard to type wearing that big drool bib isn't it?

good for you, little one! Keep trying and you'll be a big troll someday.

» RE: baby troll Posted by: mjabele

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Thanksgiving? Celebrating Genocide!
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Posted by: CyberBrook on Nov 24, 2006 8:29 PM   
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Thanksgiving?

Celebrating Genocide!
http://www.counterpunch.org/brook1126.html

!Celebrando el Genocidio! (En Espanol):
http://www.zmag.org/Spanish/0201geno.htm

(In Korean):
http://nunc.egloos.com/693258

Eco-Eating
http://www.brook.com/veg

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Anolther myth - the Benevolent Military
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Posted by: lpforti on Nov 24, 2006 10:00 PM   
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Another myth that needs to be exposed on this day that should be a Day of Atonement is the myth that the American military is a benevolent force on the side of the righteous. It may be that many, if not a vast majority of the men and women in the military, believe that this is so, but the sad and brutal facts belie such nonsense. The most amazing phenomenon during the past several years of these wars on the peoples of the Middle East and Afghanistan has been the unanimity from both the right and left to lay no blame for any of it on the military. The deaths of hundreds of thousands of men, women and children in Iraq and the death of God knows how many in Afghanistan does not arouse any sense of disgust when juxtaposed with that of the anguish felt for the deaths that have occurred within our military. Our military has been used as a blunt force against a defenseless population, yet both the right and left have fallen all over themselves to express their “total support” for our “brave” men and women in uniform. Brave is an interesting word to use for the young men and women of today’s military considering that most have joined for nothing more romantic than better tuition plans and future job opportunities. And God bless them they should want those things, but what shouldn’t be happening is the myth that we have created about the military as some benevolent force of good. Because the sad fact is that this so called benevolent force that lures our best and brightest has led to the deaths of almost 3000 of not our bravest but more appropriately our future brightest, we’ve seen another 20,000 plus of these young men and women maimed, some beyond recognition, and all of the men and women in the military have directly and indirectly been involved in the killing of over a half million people in Afghanistan and Iraq, that fact alone may haunt them to their dying days. Our military needs to be exposed as to what it has become before more of our best and brightest get sucked into its orbit. It has become a war-profiteering den of corruption which we were warned would happen by President Eisenhower, a military man to the core of his being. The myth needs to be broken and we need to rebuild – we need to Atone.

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This Is True
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Posted by: Mr. Heathen on Nov 24, 2006 11:20 PM   
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But, we're smelly apes with too much power. A day spent killing Turkeys instead of native people is probably sort of a blessing in itself.
After reading this, I feel thoroughly stuffed AND well flagellated.
Thanks.

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Well, this Rez Diva was late to the party again! But here I am!
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Posted by: ndndancer on Nov 25, 2006 1:40 AM   
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Oki Nuskuni to the Lakota babe in the Dakota's!

Thanksgiving has always been a day of mourning for me and my family, as has Colombe's Day. We're Indigenous and true Skins to you other Skins out there.

There is so much stereotypical buffalo dung in this entire thread and I want to try to address a few of the more blatant things I read. You'll have to forgive me if I wander a bit, I'm not a linear thinker despite my scientific credentials. I guess it's an Indian thang.
* Indians gave Syphilis to the world. Nice mythology, but *beep!* wrong answer. This was actually disproven a few years ago by the discovery of a woman buried in an English cemetary who had the Syphilis bug and died before ole Colombe got lost on his way to India. E-mail if you want the citation or article. I have it somewhere. *S*
* The guy with the DNA/Genetics mythology. *BEEP!* wrong answer. THE THEORY the scientists are using is very sloppy psuedo science that they promote as "real" science because they're trying to a) make some moolah off people who hope to trace their ancestry using DNA (not do-able with today's technology) or b) prove their own theory and get more funding to further their research. What they conveniently forget to tell folks is that's it's all theoretical and the DNA technology isn't that advanced to do what they claim. Anyone want to contest this, feel free. I love to deconstruct science mythology too. P.S. Before you do, save us both some time and let me just tell you the so-called "Indian" markers are found in every other race on earth AND a lot of Indians don't even carry the markers.
* The first nation to use bioterrorism and WMD in the form of smallpox infected blankets. That would be good old Lord Jeffrey Amherst. Yanno the guy Amherst College etc etc is named after? Yeah, him. It was his way to rid this country of the "vermin". Yeah, that would be....... me! So, yeah, maybe directly America didn't kill all that many Indians. Semantics still gets us genocide of 100 million brown skinned folks who were inconveniently in the way.
* The first thanksgiving. Well, there have been several, but, the one this nation celebrates was the brutal massacre of over 700 Pequot men, women and children. We have a feast day, the day after fasting and praying for those who died that day. The reason it's now celebrated on that special day in November, is........ *drumroll*....... because businesses wanted it to be a way to kick off the orgiastic Xmas holiday spending. Yeah, you got it, it was a business decision. Nice huh?

(I was windy tonight, continued on next post)

» RE: Rez Divine One Posted by: jefhadist
» White guilt Posted by: maddy

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The Real Deal
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Posted by: jefhadist on Nov 25, 2006 5:18 AM   
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This gives me another opportunity to thank my UC Davis Cherokee professor, Sarah Hutchinson, whose great-grandmother walked the Trail of Tears, and who in a 1970 class encouraged all of us to fast on thanksgiving as she had been doing her entire life. She radicalized the whole bunch of us: white, brown, black, yellow and red. Change happens in dog years around this place. Ho! And thanks to Jensen and everyone who help keep the Spirit alive and aren't afraid to say so. It's a good day...this one.

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Is this the FAR left?
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Posted by: BigWiggs on Nov 25, 2006 6:10 AM   
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Wow. If this is this far left of my party I think I want to start a new one. Holy cow. Ok its a shame that geopolitical history must have winners and losers. Too bad. I guess if writing an article bashing the US is a constructive way of venting then that's better than terrorism or alcohol abuse. So here's my way of venting - get over it. I'm enjoying my turkey and I'm thankful for living in the US where the constitution was an idea of the country's forefathers. If you're not thankful for living in the US then you should visit other countries for some juxtaposition. Oh, for you complete lefties, I'm no Bush-loving righty either. I'm the conservative democrat voter that just got our congress back. So move away for Teddy and re-embrace Bill.

» RE: Is this the FAR left? Posted by: chomsky
» RE: Is this the FAR left? Posted by: Dianka
» what you see here is the FAKELeft, not the FAR left Posted by: not_the_preferred_nomenclature

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YES YES YES
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Posted by: Cousin Jack on Nov 25, 2006 8:52 AM   
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A brilliant insight into the truth of the white supremacist holiday that not only roasts a turkey, but causes ignorant people like myself to rejoice on what should be a day of mourning. Your piece has opened my eyes to the problem, and once the problem is identified, then we can work on the solution.
Thank You Sir,

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THE ATROCITIES AGAINST TRIBAL PEOPLE CONTINUES TODAY
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Posted by: lrrysgl on Nov 25, 2006 8:56 AM   
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We need to be cognizant of the fact that the atrocities against tribal people is not ancient history, but continues today. We owe BILLIONS to tribes that have NEVER been paid. Corporations that exploited native lands for huge profits were supposed to pay a (ridiculously tiny) royalty to tribes for the use of their lands. This has been a huge ongoing scandal.

The rape of indigenous people in Central America has been going on since we could project power. The wars in Guatemala, Nicaragua, El Salvador went on under Reagan. The School of the Americas is still training troops from Central America at Fort Benning, GA.

Native Americans were used to mine uranium for corporations like Kerr-McGee. The were never told of the dangers of radiation. They knew nothing about it. They would take lunch breaks on the warmest rocks they could find - not knowing they were the most radioactive. They would go home and hug their wives and children covered in radioactive dust.

Mountains of radioactive tillings from mining operations were left out in the open and the children played on them. The wind and the rain spread the contamination all over the place. The Federal govt. suggested that portions of six states be declared national sacrifice zones because they were so contaminated. (You can read all about this in Nuclear Witnesses – Insiders Speak Out by Leslie Freeman)

The vast majority of US nuclear tests occurred between 1952 and 1997 at the Nevada Test Site (NTS), located on a Rhode Island-sized chunk of land illegally seized from the Western Shoshone nation in contravention of the Treaty of Ruby Valley.

The list of ongoing attrocities both in the US and in foreign countries, driven by corporate greed and ignored by the press, is far too numerous to list in a single post. What I've mention is merely illustrative of a rape that has been going on for hundreds of years and still continues today in a million different ways.

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white guilt
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Posted by: maddy on Nov 25, 2006 9:06 AM   
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I had originally posted this as a reply, but figured it applied to the entire board:

[Like so many here,] You're not dealing with the argument well-made by the original post. Instead, you're arguing semantics or searching for random historical facts to shift focus away from both her and Jensen's points. [So many are doing this: finding some random historical fact to use it to refute an entire argument; it doesn't work.]

[Also like many here], your charge of "self-righteousness" is ineffective because it betrays your own emotional immaturity. It speaks of your guilt, your denial, and your refusal to understand the past. History is not a collection of random facts that exonerate you personally, but is a contradictory and complex narrative of power, conquest, and struggle. Accept it: recent history is a story of white conquest, and it is the context for the present, which, like it or not, privileges whites at the expense of all other humans across the globe. Yes, you can narrow your lens to any small fact or anecdote that shows whites as victims, but the bigger picture, the larger forces of the history of colonialism and Western expansion, is the more realistic picture, and thus the more compelling one.

Just consider it, for a moment. Let's say an assault victim chooses to tell you their story, and, in doing so, asks you to demonstrate empathy and, for that brief moment, selflessness. Instead of listening and learning and comforting, you attack the person, calling them "self-righteous," because you've *chosen* to believe that that victim's assault somehow implicates you. Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't. But, in that moment, *it's not about you.*

Instead, by making it about you, you become a bully, denying the person's suffering, attacking them personally, or trying to find another instance in which you are their victim of some other situation. (Or, you try to find some historical fact that the person omitted from their story to discredit their entire story--a dishonorable act that belittles reasonable debate.)

A bully knows that he or she *cannot* be righteous and therefore faults those who try to be better human beings. Classic compensation.

The folks posting here in support of Jensen's argument are not, in other words, suffering from the dreaded "white guilt." It's the *detractors* who are suffering so, and just lack the self-awareness to realize it. Guilt, after all, is a self-preoccupied emotion that is "managed" using defense mechanisms like petty attacks, searching for scapegoats, and denial. The folks on Jensen's side are not concerned with how individual contemporary whites feel, but are trying to understand the legacy of this holiday and to remember the genocide it signifies (and implicitly celebrates). That is not "guilty"--it's something else entirely.

It's called accountability.

It's called being a human being.

Would you care to join us?
Signed,
The self-righteous, the arrogant, the ignorant, the poor-fact-checker, the fake left, the castrating feminazi, etc. etc.

» you are a soldier in the overclass's ideological army Posted by: not_the_preferred_nomenclature
» further elaboration Posted by: not_the_preferred_nomenclature
» I find your lack of comprehension....disturbing Posted by: not_the_preferred_nomenclature
» RE: white guilt Posted by: kittynboi

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The past is done. Alternet should SHUT THE FUCK UP and post better articles fighting for correction!
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Posted by: SDres11 on Nov 25, 2006 9:31 AM   
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Much as Jenson is correct, he offers no solutions to correcting the mentality mess that has only worsened year after year, decade after decade, century after century. Just another article by the FAKE LEFT !!!

P.S.: It is no coincidence that Alternet continues to leave this article on the forefront all the while shoving more important but recent articles into the archives section so fucking fast !

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You're all invited to Thanksgiving at my place next year
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Posted by: chomsky on Nov 25, 2006 9:31 AM   
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It obviously means more turkey for me.

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Atonement?
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Posted by: Dianka on Nov 25, 2006 9:47 AM   
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My family's history in the US is quite short, and I can't atone for the horrors in America's history. The problem with demanding that anyone atone for the past is that it allows one to look back at things disconnected from their own lives, say "Yes, that's bad, I'm sorry that the nation I live in has this ugly history", and then forget about it.

The atonement we need is for today, and for the things that we do and allow today, right here at home. Granted, it'seasier to recognize, and feel remorse for, those things that we know we can't directly do anything about. For example, we---the modern, progressive community---share a collective guilt for our choice of doing nothing about the sky-rocketing poverty of today. We know that our welfare "reform" policies, for example, have quietly been building a massive workforce of virtual indentured servants which, at the very least, has steadily enabled the deterioration of wages while creating a tiny ruling class of unimaginably rich individuals who, in turn, step by step, have taken control of the government of the United States. We let it happen, perhaps because we were busy assuaging any "guilt" we felt for what this nation's founders did, etc. We're so busy feeling this remorse by proxy that we don't even see our own crimes, in our own communities, against our own fellow citizens. We ignore our prisons, knowing there are so many wrongly imprisoned, innocent but who couldn't afford legitimate legal representation, knowing that our prison system is in the process of being turned into a slave labor gulag (eager for more convictions, more free labor).
The examples go on and on, and my point is, you can feel sorry for the sins of the past, indulge in your moment of guilt, then pat yourself on the back for being a "person of conscience", and it means shit. If you do nothing about the wrongs of today, the poverty and injustices right there in your own communities, if you can't find time or interest to even learn about the abuses of internationally-recognized human rights that has become routine in American's treatment of the poor (regardless of race)---if you can't even find the time to speak up against the social horrors that have increasingly become a part of America's culture---you are no better than the worst of those you condemn.

» RE: Atonement? Posted by: Camin Harner

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Give Thanks for Genocide. Thanksgiving, National Day of Mourning ©
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Posted by: Betsy L. Angert on Nov 25, 2006 10:36 AM   
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Dear Robert Jensen . . .

I thank you so much for this glorious sharing. I linked to it in one of my two Thanksgiving Day missives.

I invite you to review each treatise. Please share your thoughts on my own musings. Offer a comment, so that others might contemplate your thinking.
Give Thanks for Genocide. Thanksgiving, National Day of Mourning ©
Thanksgiving. Will Our Past, Our Present Be Prologue? ©

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smallpox
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Posted by: coyote on Nov 25, 2006 11:33 AM   
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There seems to be some new evidence to support the theory that there were 25 million Native Americans living in North America. The smallpox epidemic caused by first contact (1492) had already decimated 95% of the population by the time the Pilgrims hit plymouth rock. The nomadic Indian romanticized in American history/fiction was actually the last refugee of a larger collapsed society.

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proof of point
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Posted by: DaBear on Nov 25, 2006 1:08 PM   
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Jensen's point early on about the apoplectic reactions to telling the truth about Thanksgiving or whatever it was (a long time ago after reading through 437 some odd comments), was borne-out by the content of the bulk of the commentary. White Supremacy lives on strong in the "Mer'kun heart, even on Alternet. Not sure whether to laugh or cry.

Atonement is meaningless if not follwed-up by action. Until we make a sustantial give-back to indigenous people, the U.S. government has atoned for nothing. Of course being the representation of the ugly white supremacist underbelly of the invaders' offspring, the government is doing what it should with Thanksgiving, reinforcing the memes that keep it in power.

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WASP Puritans are a minority
[Report this comment]
Posted by: larry278 on Nov 25, 2006 1:58 PM   
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Thanksgiving day will soon be a day when all of the malls will be open. There will be fewer who will feast. Shopping & MickeyD's not turkey will be the meal. For stay at homes there will be football, pizza & beer. Nobody will take time to feast or repent. Another tradition & holiday will be gone. Guilt is no longer done in America as evidenced by the comments above mime,

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You are doing what you condemn - managing history.
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Gma1 on Nov 25, 2006 2:13 PM   
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It takes an anthropologist to discuss this properly, which I am not. But I do know that survival of the fittest is the basic law of nature. Does the good professor now wish to somehow repeal those natural forces. The Pilgrims came here for survival purposes. Some of them were in danger of their own lives. Yes, they were brutal to the people already here. But because they did not speak the language, etc., etc., unfortunately, the newcomers thought the indiginous people were ignorant and barbarians. Well, of course, they were wrong just as the white slave owners were wrong about the Africans they captured and used. Because we have learned differently in the two hundred some years that have passed does not mean that we must continue to pay for our forefathers sins. Do you think? It seems to me that the purpose of life is to continue to become better people. I believe that Americans on the whole have done that. Now and then we have a setback such as we have the past five years. But there are those of us who keep trying. That's what life is about, isn't it? I believe we are going to have to repeat all our mistakes until we get it right. I believe that is in our genes (and I don't mean Levis). Also, think what you will about Thanksgiving, but for me it has evolved, also. If, indeed, it was a celebration of the killing of Native Indians, today it is a celebration of thanks for what we are fortunate enough to have - which can be a little or a lot. I for one, celebrate it as such. I'm sorry for all the harm we caused the Native Americans. Maybe we are finally doing something to help them. I hope so. There is not one thing we can do now to change what our forefathers did. They did build a pretty good government; one that has survived some of the worst presidents imaginable, such as the current one. I give them credit for the good they did and condemn them for the harm they caused. But it is time to move forward and make this a country for the good of all Americans whoever they are and from wherever the come. Let's begin now.

» Actually... Posted by: Mr. Heathen

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smell test
[Report this comment]
Posted by: lamar on Nov 25, 2006 5:56 PM   
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National day of Atonement? What is this, Israel? Next you're going to tell us we need to invade Baja California and bomb Cuba's nuclear sites? Jeez. Why not push Buy Nothing Day? This replacing turkey day with a day of atonement just doesn't pass the smell test.

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Blah
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Camin Harner on Nov 25, 2006 7:22 PM   
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I wonder if one person's mind was changed by either this article or the comments that followed. Doubt it.

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RE: Prof. Jensen's column, recycled from 2005
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Posted by: stoicnag on Nov 25, 2006 7:52 PM   
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I'm glad I left my computer at home, whereby I did not read this brilliant essay and all the brilliant comments until AFTER I had returned from a lovely holiday with my family, celebrating all that we are thankful for. Peace y'all.

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So, is everyone done with this mental masturbation?
[Report this comment]
Posted by: ndndancer on Nov 25, 2006 8:08 PM   
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Ya'll are mean to eachother! Sheesh, I was thinking I needed to borrow mean ole Sister George's wooden spoon and start smacking some noggins.

Okay, I'm big on debate and discussion, but even bigger on problem solving. I hang out with too many engineers to be happy sitting around on my arse discussing a problem. I have some concrete suggestions that I know I as an Indigenous woman born and bred of this land would really like your help with.

1. Let's just fast on Thanksgiving, feast the day after and totally screw the "day after" sales? How about the day of Thanksgiving be a true thanksgiving, a day where we set aside our ethnocentric ideas about eachother and pray and reflect honestly about how we can live together in harmony on this Earth? A day where we give honest thanks for the teachings and learnings of each of the cultures now inhabiting the land. No need for the continual self flagellation, unless of course you happen to like that kind of thing *G*.

2. We have some very real, very complicated problems out here in "Indian Country". How about you choose one to put some effort into advocating for us with your Congressmen and Senators? We are still bound by treaties and our relationship with the Feds is always tenuous at best. We are light years more successful when we have your voice in their ear as well.

3. Ignorance is really one of our worst enemy. If you can, please inform yourself and your children of the true stories about our peoples. Here's a good site to start with for next year's Thanksgiving, a good resource for teachers and parents done in the 80's by the Center for World Indigenous Studies. There are some great alternatives to the stereotypes we usually see at thanksgiving in our schools.
http://www.halcyon.com/pub/FWDP/Americas/tchthnks.txt

4. One of the most important issues is the Cobell case. Please support Eloise in this effort by contacting your congressional delegates and urging them to not only settle, but to settle for ALL of the missing monies, not the pennies on the dollar they've offered.
http://www.indiantrust.com/

5. I could go on and on about the third world stats in almost any category you want to speak about, but there are three things that I see as critical to our survival, protecting our resources and lands, education and health care.
*Every year, Tribal Leaders trek to DC to begin the arduous job of educating their Congressmen, Senators and staff about the various issues and hope to secure increases in budgets for these important issues.
*Ask your delegates to support increases in health care budgets and education budgets so we are at least at parity with other poor people in this country.
*Currrently, the funding for health care is about 1/2 of what is allocated for the poor of this nation. Maybe that could explain the third world stats, yanno?
*Education is also funded at about 1/2 of what the rest of the nation enjoys. Support the 35 Tribal Colleges who operate on shoestring budgets and are always perilously close to closing their doors because of funding. In spite of the phenomenal success of these institutions, they still have to scramble for every dollar. They receive no funding from the states and most are located on Reservations who enjoy very little of the economic benefit of the gaming Tribes.
*Environmental protection for our lands and resources is key to our survival. We are tied to our lands in ways that many have difficulty understanding. We are trying to protect the remnants of our ancestral lands and the resources there. We are under tremendous pressure to sell or develop what natural resources we have left. There are so many environmental issues it will be difficult to list them all.

I'll post some sites where you can get more information.
Rez Diva

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Sites for more information
[Report this comment]
Posted by: ndndancer on Nov 25, 2006 8:29 PM   
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*Indian Trust lawsuit - http://www.indiantrust.com/
*National Indian Health Board - http://www.nihb.org/
*National Congress of American Indians (NCAI) - http://www.ncai.org/
*American Indian Higher Education Consortium, Tribal Colleges - http://www.aihec.org/
*American Indican College Fund - http://www.collegefund.org/
*National Indian Education Association - http://www.niea.org/
*Environmental Organizations (there are tons, I'll list a few):
http://www.naepc.com/
http://www.ienearth.org/ - Indigenous Environmental Network
http://www.nciv.net/engels/IWBN/IWBN.htm - Indigenous Women's Biodiversity Network
http://ncseonline.org/nae/docs/iwen.html - Indigenous Women's Environmental Network

Please, if you have suggestions, or sites?

The Rez Diva

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OK but the most significant Thanksgiving was in 1863
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Vulch on Nov 25, 2006 8:35 PM   
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Beating a drumstick on the sorry legacy of the Puritans unquestionably deplorable treatment of native Americans is fine but let us recall the reason why we really celebrate the holiday as a national time of gratitude, instead of as various state celebrations with differing rationales.

Prior to the Civil War Sarah Josepha Hale, editor of Godley's Lady Book, then the largest circulating women's magazine, vigorously campaigned for nationalizing what, in the 1850s, was a collection of various state Thanksgiving Days held on various days of the year. Her naive hope was that this would help bring northerners and southerners together. Her efforts were resisted by southern states in the belief the proposal was a northern plot to lessen southern unity of purpose. Lincoln, however, made good use of of her nationwide campaign when, in the aftermath of the Union Army's July 1863 victories at Gettysburg and Vicksburg, he felt the political impact of such a national holiday would be useful in bostering Union resolve to win, which would bring slavery to an end, and provide a focus on national healing. So on Oct. 03, 1863 he proclaimed that henceforth the last Thursday of November would be a national day of Thanksgiving. Now that's something that was, and still is, worth celebrating.

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What should we do to "atone" for our ancestors?
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Posted by: tanstaafl28 on Nov 25, 2006 8:45 PM   
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What is it we should do to atone for such atrocities committed by some of our ancestors? Whip ourselves mercilessly and beg forgiveness? Shall we give all the land back to the Native Americans, beg their pardon, and sail back to Europe with our tails tucked between our legs?

We can collectively acknowledge that our history is filled with examples of brutality. We can insure that future generations never forget that part of our heritage included the wholesale slaughter, and enslavement of others, but we can never truly atone for such actions.

The only atonement for the crimes of our forebears is to learn from them and see that they never happen again.

» READ THE POST TWO UP Posted by: AdamG

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robert is a hypocrit for...
[Report this comment]
Posted by: give_peace_a_chance on Nov 26, 2006 1:14 AM   
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not leaving north America immediately so native Americans can have their land back.

typical of these leftists to lament the actions of our founding fathers while callously enjoying the benefits of those actions.

robert is a chicken-humanitarian who will NEVER put his actions were his mouth is.

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Stop begging and steal!
[Report this comment]
Posted by: jjason on Nov 26, 2006 2:06 AM   
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The Indian Nations enjoy enough semi-autonomy to take a good run at ripping off white and Asian possessors of intellectual property... software, movies, music, books, medicines, etc. Turn every reservation into a duty-free, patent-free, copyright-free shopping zone!!

» Stop begging and fight! Posted by: jjason

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Grossly glossing over is nothing new.
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Posted by: symcokid on Nov 26, 2006 7:31 AM   
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It would be remiss to not question who the 'purviewers' and 'brainstormers' were that conjured the abysmal and twisted blanket connotation of "heroic (FOUNDING) fathers"! Give me a break - those quasi Leaders were 'stumblebums' that were equally as CROOKED as the Leadership we have today. Historians and mythmakers goals have always been to make them appear as HEROES and VISIONARIES in the eyes of the world and in the history books. Meanwhile they demonized the Indigenous People as heathens, savages and interlopers that had to be saved from themselves, to be done away with.

The nothing new aspect of all this is, "we will liberate the people of Iraq", and it's the old morass all over again, except this time it's oil we'll help ourselves to!

The one way the "HEROES" knew how to put their shorts on was to remember, brown in the back and yellow in the front!

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chicken
[Report this comment]
Posted by: grim ripper on Nov 26, 2006 7:39 AM   
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Double chicken

Your post exemplifies the typical emotional response of a baby-boomer who, spoon-fed MSM propaganda most of its life, reads something a little bit provocative for the first time.

I'm sure in real life, you're not as callous or glib as your comment: "Ok its a shame that geopolitical history must have winners and losers. Too bad." Because you probably never have to deal with anyone pulling back the curtain at your car dealership or wherever it is you work.

Don't come round here no more, chicken head

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Establish a National Day of Mourning, Hesperophobes!
[Report this comment]
Posted by: ISlamIslam on Nov 26, 2006 9:09 AM   
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Then everyone who wants to beat themselves up for what their forebears did can do so to their hearts' content, and can leave the rest of us alone to celebrate what Thanksgiving has evolved into -- a low-key day off from work to spend time with family and friends.

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Forget the Indians - Let's focus on what US is doing NOW
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Posted by: Aimee on Nov 26, 2006 10:17 AM   
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We all remember what the US did to the Indians in the name of Real Estate. Let's focus on what the US is doing in Iraq, Afghanistan and elsewhere: invasion, genocide, torture ... It is time for this behavior to end. The war economy is killing us all. Now is the time for a Peace Economy.

Aimee

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I USED TO WONDER......
[Report this comment]
Posted by: ALANHESTER on Nov 26, 2006 12:11 PM   
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how we could live in a society in which 2 milliion people could be exterminated, and most people would not notice. Most of the people on this board seem to go out of their way to absolve themselves of any guilt for what happened to Native Americans. After reading these posts, I now thoroughly understand. Spare us the $$%@@ about America's greatness in the future, I will consider Americans to be selfish, self-centered children!

» RE: I USED TO WONDER...... Posted by: ALANHESTER
» Why should I feel guilty? Posted by: Boomerang
» RE: Why should I feel guilty? Posted by: anti-emily
» RE: Why should I feel guilty? Posted by: ALANHESTER
» RE: Why should I feel guilty? Posted by: ALANHESTER

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Thanksgiving has nothing to do with the westward expansion of the post colonial U.S.
[Report this comment]
Posted by: cinattra on Nov 26, 2006 3:18 PM   
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I'm not a historian and I'm not good at researching it either... but I don't recall the Pilgrims having anything to do with the push westward by the U.S. that progressed into a forced annexation of American Indian lands. The Pilgrims were persecuted themselves or they never would have been in the "new world" to begin with.

The Thanksgiving holiday is to commemorate an event of survival and coming together of two different peoples. Heck, it happened before the U.S. was even thought of as a country.

The bottom line is that it is a stretch to tie Thanksgiving to the westward expansion of the U.S. Both were performed by different people in totally different centuries.

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This is why the Left gets
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Posted by: jjason on Nov 27, 2006 12:09 AM   
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Turn Thanksgiving into a day of atonement! Brilliant!

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This is why the Left gets less than 5 percent
[Report this comment]
Posted by: jjason on Nov 27, 2006 12:11 AM   
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Correction.

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Maybe a Remeberance Day would be better?
[Report this comment]
Posted by: moflard on Nov 27, 2006 4:23 AM   
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Feast days have a momentum all thier own. It's why Christmas is still the same orgy of consumption that Saturnalia was. Why Halloween is still the same night of ghosties and ghoulies that Samhain was. So maybe redirecting Thanksgiving would be something of a futile exercise at best. How about another day - I don't know, commemorating the first act of treaty breaking say - to mark the deaths of the Native Americans. No baggage so maybe more of a chance of taking - and I think these people at least deserve a day of their own.

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Everything he said was right, but...
[Report this comment]
Posted by: eyespy on Nov 27, 2006 8:09 AM   
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...keep your goddamned politics out of my harvest festival!

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Johnboy414
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Johnboy414 on Nov 27, 2006 11:37 AM   
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What a loser of an idea. Give up Thanksgiving for atonement? Aye.

True, genocide was committed against the "human beings," as they were called in Little Big Man. But separate that out from the possibly romantic notion that somewhere colonists and Native Americans celebrated their cooperation or colonists even gave thanks to efforts by some tribes to teach them how to survive. Never mind some tribes were less welcoming for possibly good reasons.

But the idea of Thanksgiving has transcended racial politics, as most of us celebrate it, and offers us the chance to reflect on our blessings and celebrate family and traditions.

Set aside a national holiday to acknowledge the historic losses among indigenous Americans or better yet, their contributions to American culture as a more positive, constructive holiday rather than a day of guilt and suffering.

» RE: Johnboy414 Posted by: rg

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Drinking?
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Lauren on Nov 27, 2006 5:36 PM   
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After reading through all this, I think I noted more than a bit of alcohol talking.

Here is my do something idea, ask Borders Books to give fair treatment to Indians in their religion section. What a concept - respect for their religion. Respect is a native American religious concept like gratitude, maybe you have heard about it?

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That's turkeys, not "Turkeys".(NP)
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Mr. Heathen on Nov 27, 2006 5:53 PM   
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None.

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That's turkeys, not "Turkeys".(NP)
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Mr. Heathen on Nov 27, 2006 5:53 PM   
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None.

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IGNORE ABOVE TURKEYS
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Mr. Heathen on Nov 27, 2006 6:31 PM   
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Or administrator delete them.

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Final Thought?
[Report this comment]
Posted by: bambic on Nov 27, 2006 9:03 PM   
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Maybe not final but:
I am a direct discendant of one of the signers of the Mayflower Compact.
It wasn't until I was an adult that I began researching this fellow and I learned that I am actually the descendant of a WHITE SLAVE. He was an "indentured servant" to the ship's captain and was not illiterate, so he sailed to America in 1620 and lived to become what they called a "freeman" with slaves of his own...
I will always wonder at what point people began to start feeling compassion for those of a race not their own...I guess some of us never will get it.

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Let's work for world peace
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Pocahontas on Nov 28, 2006 8:25 AM   
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I've noticed how nobody notices me when I'm going about my daily business all year long, until the national holiday of "Thanksgiving," come around. Then, as I'm browsing in the aisles of my local grocery store, people want to acknowledge me in some way.

First, most people glance my way in a nervous or tentative kind of way. When I see that that they want to make some of contact with me (cuz I'm obviously Indigenous -- copper skin, black hair, oval eyes, proud stance) I go ahead and make some friendly gesture toward each one.

Sometimes, I just nod and smile; and in return they shine like happy babies and smile back. Sometimes, I make a comment about the products on the shelves, and then we share a friendly exchange.

One time, a few years ago, a guy come up to me and gave me some coupons for products in the store. That was cool. He seemed pretty nervous about doing that, but when I smiled and thanked him, he was so relieved and happy, and then he smiled back.

I conduct this friendly acknowledgment and chit-chat with people in the stores and on the streets on Thanksgiving Day because I might be the first Native American Indian or Indigenous person these people have actually met or spoken to; and I want to represent my people as gracious, friendly, and honorable. I feel it's my duty to be an ambassador on behalf of all native people to the mainstream & general public.

So, knowing that the general public only takes direct notice of me on Thanksgiving Day; it's no surprise to me that the respondents here on Alternet also free feel to speak their minds -- "the good, the bad and the ugly."

But, thanks to everyone for being honest. It's a good catharsis for everyone to good some of this angst out into the open.

I once protested Thanksgiving Day by fasting the entire day, and remembering the injustices that have transpired over and over again throughout our history together.

Now days, I still remember the true events of that first thanksgiving dinner between the pilgrims and the Indians, and I inform my children, grandchildren, and everyone I know about the truth of that historical day. Then, since I have both Thursday and Friday off from work, my family gets together to visit and share a great meal together. It's a time for reuniting.

However, the Indigenous people of this land have many thanksgiving ceremonies throughout the year that they practice respective to their beliefs and ceremonial practices.

So, don't think that just because the Indians are having a turkey dinner on this day, that they even believe or practice the same thing as the mainstream and status quo do. Take note that a turkey wasn't even on the first pilgrim's table. (The records show what it was "wild fowl.") Rather, the "traditional turkey" was a brillant marketing scheme introduced in the 1940-1960 eras.

My thanks goes to the intelligent, objective, and informed resondents to this article for standing up for the truth about the history of Thanksgiving Day, what it does to/for our national psyche, and what it justifies in the world today. The next step would be changing the "teacher's colleges," and public schools systems curriculums and activities to represent a more truthful reading of this time period. The children are the agents of change, and we need to be mindful of who is controlling their education and information.

Let's continue to work for tolerance, social justice, environmental justice, economic justice, equal rights, and world peace.

Alternet Comments:

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truth
[Report this comment]
Posted by: rsaxto on Nov 23, 2006 12:25 AM   
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This is presenting truth to power and we need a lot more of it the biosphere is to be able to support our human population in decency and peace. As war continues it constitutes proof of the greed and stupidity we bring to each other. Let us prove our intelligence and decency by impeaching the current prime instigators of war, indecency, torture and degradation: the Bushies.

» ARE YOU ON DRUGS!?! Posted by: Scientz
» namecaller and taunter Posted by: monkopotamus
» RE: namecaller and taunter Posted by: Scientz
» RE: namecaller and taunter Posted by: Scientz
» RE: namecaller and taunter Posted by: rsaxto
» Pinko sissies rule!!!! Posted by: jjason
» Then eat the vomit. Posted by: jjason
» jjason is the vomit Posted by: monkopotamus
» RE: namecaller and taunter Posted by: Scientz
» enjoy this turkey Posted by: monkopotamus
» RE: enjoy this turkey Posted by: Scientz
» RE: enjoy this turkey Posted by: rsaxto
» RE: namecaller and taunter Posted by: rsaxto
» RE: ARE YOU ON DRUGS!?! Posted by: psychochurch
» RE: ARE YOU ON DRUGS!?! Posted by: Scientz
» RE: ARE YOU ON DRUGS!?! Posted by: rsaxto
» RE: ARE YOU ON DRUGS!?! Posted by: Scientz
» RE: Sarah Hutchinson-Cherokee Posted by: jefhadist
» RE: truth Posted by: deaudonnee

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Thanksgiving is like christmas
[Report this comment]
Posted by: autonomie on Nov 23, 2006 12:38 AM   
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Thanksgiving is like christmas in that both are misunderstood.

For Thanksgiving, it's supposedly a day to think about pilgrims. Ask yourself: is this how you spend Thanksgiving? I'd bet most people would say no, and that it's a day to meet up with family.

For christmas, it's supposedly a big religious thing. But it's not. It's composed of 2 parts. The first is a consumerist holiday for corporations, ensuring the system cranks forward. The second is, again, a chance to spend time with family.

1. Spending time with your family is not necessarily bad.
2. Nobody alive can be blamed for the actions of people who lived 500 years ago.

That said, there is still a war being waged by governments against indigenous peoples. The US government, its FBI, and its BIA (Bureau of Indian Affairs) are the main culprits.

Not family holidays.

Alternet, I think it would be cool if you stopped running this article. How about replacing it with something that properly identifies the culprits, perhaps giving some ideas about what people can do?

» Not Cool! Posted by: Sparks56
» RE: Not Cool! Posted by: paschn
» YAY FOR SOCIAL INDOCTRINATION! Posted by: thistleblower
» Thanksgiving Posted by: derfb1
» RE: Thanksgiving Posted by: blitzmesser
» RE: Thanksgiving Posted by: Suz
» RE: Thanksgiving Posted by: cottontail
» RE: Thanksgiving is like christmas Posted by: canadianlefty
» Enjoy Your Turkey Posted by: LeaderofMen

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too much credit?
[Report this comment]
Posted by: bottleman on Nov 23, 2006 1:19 AM   
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Um, I think the writer is giving the propagandists a bit too much credit and us boobs at home too little.

Does anyone actually think the Indians got a good deal? Does anyone think they went away quietly and cooperatively? I don't know a single person, liberal or conservative, that believes the Pilgrim thanksgiving myth is representative of the actual relationship between whites and Indians over the 300 years of white expansion.

These people don't love thanksgiving day because of the pilgrim myth. They might not know every skirmish, every epidemic, and every opportunistic sale of rum, but they know exactly what kind of ugly things happened in the 300 years after the Pilgrim thanksgiving.

Like another commenter suggested, these smarter-than-you'd-think people love thanksgiving because it's a day when they see their families, and it's a day they try to give thanks for the good things in their world. I guess to them it trumps having a day of atonement for sins their ancestors committed.

Quite frankly a more impressive piece of atonement would be signing over the deeds to a few pieces of prime, anciently stolen real estate. Anyone willing to put their bungalow where their mouth is?

» Well said Posted by: slydad
» RE: Well said Posted by: ALANHESTER
» RE: Well said Posted by: slydad
» RE: too much credit? Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: too much credit? Posted by: RoffleTheWaffle
» RE: too much credit? Posted by: polyquat50
» RE: too much credit? Posted by: RoffleTheWaffle
» RE: too much credit? Posted by: Graeme
» RE: too much credit? Posted by: RoffleTheWaffle
» My facts are not in error. Posted by: slydad
» RE: too much credit? Posted by: ALANHESTER

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HINDUTWA AND INDIA
[Report this comment]
Posted by: vivekanand on Nov 23, 2006 1:32 AM   
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Article is superb in its facts and spirit except one sentence about hindutwa and india.
the political movements in india based on hindutwa is almost similar to nazi movement. it's not a indigenous counter movement against indian state/emperor. it is more dangerous than indian state instead.

Please watch out.

» English Please? Posted by: edith
» RE: nglish Please? Posted by: countingdaisies
» RE: HINDUTWA AND INDIA Posted by: Scientz

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Here's an alternative Thanksgiving for you
[Report this comment]
Posted by: thinkingagain on Nov 23, 2006 1:37 AM   
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Have a look at this for an alternative to Thanksgiving, featuring another great American Hero

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Wrong Holiday
[Report this comment]
Posted by: NowhereToTurn on Nov 23, 2006 2:37 AM   
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The appropriate time for this diatribe would be Columbus Day.

» RE: Wrong Holiday Posted by: marxalot
» RE: Wrong Holiday Posted by: Scientz
» RE: Wrong Holiday Posted by: RoffleTheWaffle
» RE: Wrong Holiday Posted by: doinaheckuvajob

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Happy Thanksgiving
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Conservasaurus on Nov 23, 2006 3:36 AM   
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excellent article and alot of "food" for thought! Our treatment of the American Indians is beyond description.. While we have a strong focus on civil liberties, civil rights, for various minority groups I dont see Indians included in there in a big way. We still sweep that under the rug..

» RE: Happy Thanksgiving Posted by: YogiBear
» How mature of you. Posted by: Scientz
» Are You On Drugs? Posted by: Douglas
» RE: Are You On Drugs? Posted by: Scientz
» Myth of Genocidal Warfare Posted by: moflard

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Don't you ever just want to puke at this sort of political correctness?
[Report this comment]
Posted by: seanor54 on Nov 23, 2006 3:50 AM   
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Jensen appears to be the ultimate pc wimp. Attacking Thanksgiving to get his pygmy ideas some attention is pretty low. Time for Mr. Jensen to read the ultimate book for all liberals: How to Manage Your Dick

» What a man! Posted by: Sparks56
» RE: What a man! Posted by: mtnman
» RE: What a man! Posted by: blitzmesser
» struck a nerve Posted by: monkopotamus

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Thanksgiving
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Posted by: john2006 on Nov 23, 2006 3:56 AM   
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What an idiot!! Didn't your mommy give you enough attention when you were a kid. This is ridiculous. It's always the white guy's fault. I'm sick of clowns like you. If you don't like this Country, get out!!

» Accept em all Posted by: edith
» RE: Thanksgiving Posted by: Conservasaurus
» Hooray for Conservasaurus Posted by: Douglas
» Like It or Not Posted by: Sparks56
» namecaller and taunter Posted by: monkopotamus

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A hefty helping of revisionism
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Posted by: Moonray on Nov 23, 2006 4:01 AM   
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Give it a rest. When the European colonists arrived on these shores, the various native tribes in Massachusetts were engaged in a bitter struggle over territory, and murdered and enslaved each other routinely. They quickly recognized the superior weapons technology of the Europeans and began competing with each other to gain influence among the colonists -- and access to their weapons as well.

The European immigrants were indeed cruel and ruthless, but so were the natives. It was a rough world. To dwell on the sins of the newcomers while depicting the natives as gentle and noble savages motivated by only the purest motives is ridiculous and disingenuous. Worse, it undermines the credibility of serious historians who want to present an accurate picture of early America.

» Well said Posted by: kepstein7777
» hefty moron ray Posted by: monkopotamus
» RE: hefty moron ray Posted by: Scientz

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Let's Vow To Stop Our Destruction
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Posted by: michaeltwatson on Nov 23, 2006 4:02 AM   
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I must admit that I am one of those who always preaches about the benefits of looking at history, but who also neglects to acknowledge that history when it does not serve my purpose. Your article has caused me to think about that.

While I agree that it sounds like blasphemy to suggest that Thanksgiving should be celebrated by fasting rather than by feasting, I do not think that it requires too much audacity to propose that, as part of our Thanksgiving, we ask our maker (whoever each of us believes that maker to be) to give us the wisdom never to allow ourselves to condone, promote or praise the type of human destruction that we engaged in to start this country. What better way to foster a new animus as a nation? Michael Townes Watson, author of America's Tunnel Vision--How Insurance Companies' Propaganda Is Corrupting Medicine and Law. www.AmericasTunnelVision.com

» Well Said Posted by: Sparks56
» HOLY SHIT! Posted by: AdamG
» RE: HOLY SHIT! AdamG- Posted by: SamFox

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existentialist thanksgiving
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Posted by: edith on Nov 23, 2006 4:06 AM   
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the holiday is what people make of it. Today. that a few people may mythologicalize the Pilgrims means nothing.

If anything Puritans have gotten a bad rap in the name pf PC politics, e.g., Miller's the Crucible, a great play but a poor leftwing rehash of history because A.Miller wanted to hit his McCarthyist tormentors where it hurt: in the stomach and in the vision of goodness the Puritans strove to meet but didn't. (Ironically the Communists, Miller's victim role models, also projected a vision of goodness that was never met and often was a mask over its antonymic Self.)

Every holiday is recreated and reinterpreted by each succecceding generation. Christmas is an excellent example in its transformation from a pagan Solstice to veneration of a deified human saviour to a commericial mix of a small town, snowy Dickensian atmosphre to today's millions of cars parked in bleak, treeless shopping mall spaces.

In a sense, it's irrelvant whether the Pilgrims were generous freedom fighters or grasping tightwards with racial prejudices shared by practically every caucasian(and many arabs) in the 17th century.

» Thanksgiving is abstract Posted by: kepstein7777

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MORE RACE-GUILT IDENTITY POLITICS FROM THE FAKE LEFT
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Posted by: not_the_preferred_nomenclature on Nov 23, 2006 4:37 AM   
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White americans ARE native americans! We assimilated the natives who lived here. MOST of the native american DNA existing TODAY in america is in WHITE AMERICANS. We didn't kill them--they BECAME US.

Yes, the admixture rate of native american dna in all white Americans is 9.7 % on average.

So don't come around with your race-guilt overclas propaganda please. WE WHITE AMERICANS ARE NATIVE AMERICANS.

The overclass likes to split the races, the better to divide us, and fakeLeft overclass tools like alternet, PBS, The Nation, etc are all funded by large nonprofits started by plutocrats. This is not a conspiracy, but an ecosystem where quasi-organic entities compete to install ideology memes in brains.

And as always, I bring the data and evidence:
http://www.answers.com/topic/black-people-1
" Indeed, two thirds of white Americans have no detectable African ancestry at all (other than the ancient African ancestry shared by all members of our species, of course). Only one-third of white Americans have detectable African DNA (averaging 2.3 percent) from ancestors who passed through the endogamous color line from black to"

^ Mark D. Shriver and others, "Skin Pigmentation, Biogeographical Ancestry, and Admixture Mapping," Human Genetics, 112 (2003), 387-99.


http://www.backintyme.com/odr/about2356.html&highlight=

Actually, I don't have more information, Frank, although I have search for it. However, the number of Americans that have discovered theirs Native link is increasing. I estimate the American population is around 10% Native American in its autosomal DNA. Which make sense, given the U.S. has a larger European immigration than Latin America.

If so, that will show most Native Americans assimilated to the mainstream, and that the genocide was in a smaller scale that once though.



go here


But new genetic data shows that racial categories are far too broad. For one thing, there is more variation within a race than between races. A white person and a black person may be more genetically similar, measured by the amount of DNA they have in common, than two blacks, says the Journal:
About 30 percent of white Americans have enough non-European ancestry -- more than 10 percent -- to make self-reported race an unreliable indicator of their generic make-up.




http://backintyme.com/essay060401.htm
Presenting the Triumph of the One-Drop Rule
by Frank W Sweet
Presentation given at the Melungeon Conference, Frankfort KY, July 30, 2005
and at the Melungeon Sixth Union, Kingsport TN, June 8-10, 2006
A
t the 2004 Fifth Union, I presented DNA evidence that White Americans, just like other inhabitants of this hemisphere, are a genetic mix of European, Native American, and African ancestry. I showed that about one-third of White Anglo-Americans have African markers in their DNA from ancestors who were born into the U.S. Black community but then passed through the color line to redefine themselves as White. I say “Anglo-Americans” because we already knew that virtually all Hispanics and Muslim Americans are genetically mixed. What was interesting was learning that non-Hispanic White Americans were also mixed. The DNA evidence of this was uncovered in 2001 but it is has been confirmed by many studies and we have begun to see regional variations among groups.

» Reading is Fundamental Posted by: not_the_preferred_nomenclature
» You Seem To Be!!! Posted by: Douglas
» RE: You Seem To Be!!! Posted by: Scientz
» It's Not About DNA Posted by: Sparks56
» best for the laughs ! Posted by: monkopotamus
» Such Crap !!! Posted by: AdamSelene40

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It's a day off work, stupid!
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Posted by: colinmeister on Nov 23, 2006 4:55 AM   
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Thanksgiving is a day off work. Just like Memorial day, Labour Day, and Independence day.

For many people, these holidays are an excuse to kick back and take a few libations with family and friends.

I am an immigrant, and have absolutely no interest in American culture or the reasons for its national holidays. I do like a day off work occasionally, though, and any excuse for cooking a gourmet meal (In my case not turkey) is better than no excuse!

» No Interest? Posted by: Sparks56
» RE: No Interest? Posted by: colinmeister
» RE: No Interest? Posted by: Sparks56
» Then why post anything? Posted by: harpy
» ME TOOO, I nominate Ganja Day Posted by: Michiganman

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Another Abuse
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Posted by: wawa on Nov 23, 2006 5:04 AM   
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Where are you Amy Goodman?
Your 2004 interview with Vanunu is prime testimony against him on his FREEDOM of SPEECH trial.




On this Thanksgiving morning I received the following email from Mordechai Vanunu's brother, Meir:

Hi Eileen,

I just got an SMS from Mord, Thu 10am, saying the
police told him they will come to arrest him today. On Tuesday, the police called and said to him to come to Petah Tiqva for interogation.

The lawyer, Feldman, said he doesn't have to go there but they should take him if they want.

Meir


TONIGHT in London, my video interview with Vanunu:

"30 Minutes with Vanunu" will be one of many viewed in the House of Commons -YOU can see it FREE on WAWA:
http://www.wearewideawake.org




From the CAMPAIGN FOR A NUCLEAR-FREE MIDDLE EAST
C/o London Region CND, Mordechai Vanunu House, London N7 8DQ

www.vanunu.freeserve.co.uk

You are invited to a film show and public meeting:

AN EVENING WITH MORDECHAI VANUNU

Date: Thursday 23rd November
Time: 6.45-9pm
Place: Committee Room 9, House of Commons (Go through the main St. Stephen's entrance; allow quarter of an hour extra to go through security.)

The evening will consist of recent filmed interviews with Mordechai in East Jerusalem, contributions from long-time supporters, Susannah York and Jeremy Corbyn MP, an update on Mordechai's current situation from Campaign Coordinator Ernest Rodker, followed by questions and discussion on Mordechai, Israel and Palestine.

We look forward to enjoying your company at this event.

David Polden



Take action -- click
http://www.opednews.com/maxwrite/diarypage.php?did=2326

To send this message to your local newspaper and CONGRESS:
Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers. -Article 19/UDHR

» not germane Posted by: monkopotamus
» This post doesn't belong Posted by: harpy

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A Nation if Immigrants!
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Posted by: numen on Nov 23, 2006 5:15 AM   
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Lovely to watch hypocrisy in action. Every other day, Alternet posts a screed complaining that we are trying to cut off the free flow of immigrants legal and illegal. Then once a year we get to see the results of just such a free flow of immigrants.

You can't inundate a land with people coming in from outside without destroying those who were here before.

» RE: A Nation if Immigrants! Posted by: Sparks56

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Alternet, you never disappoint
[Report this comment]
Posted by: eringhorm on Nov 23, 2006 5:28 AM   
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Just for kicks I decided to wander over here this morning and see if you'd decide to provoke a flamewar over the origins of the Thanksgiving holiday. I see that you have, and hey, more power to you.

Considering when my ancestors got to this country, I suppose I'm an original sinner by heritage as far as the treatment of native people goes. But here's a little clue: My ancestral homeland was invaded, too. Numerous times. Should I be asking Danes, Italians and French folks to flaggelate themselves now as a show of atonement? I think most would consider it absurd.

I've never understood why I should feel a sense of collective guilt for history I had no part in and have no way of undoing now. Native tribes were wiped out. Slavery happened. These are awful things, and certainly no one should be proud that their ancestors took part. But someone explain to me what good it does you now that I should punish myself for the sins of my forebears? I'd rather spend my time trying to just get along now.

Like I said, good on you for going all out with the humorless left thing. Hope it works out for you. Me? I'm going to go enjoy time with my family.

» Rent? Posted by: eringhorm
» A United family, is it? Posted by: Cathyc
» RE: A United family, is it? Posted by: eringhorm

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Have things really changed that much?
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Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Nov 23, 2006 5:31 AM   
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American reservations are often the poorest regions of the country, which often happen to have mineral resources. In Arizona, the countries biggest coal company (Peabody) has been trashing Hopi and Navajo reservations for years. Most of that coal is burned to generate electricity; the Four Corners power plant is one of the largest in the US. 30% of it's output is taken by California, and it remains to be seen if the new anti-global warming law, AB32, will affect this.

Then there's the Yucca Mountain nuclear waste storage program. See Yucca Mountain, Nevada. Proposed High-Level Radioactive Waste Dump Targeted at Native American Land.
This boondoggle is a classic case of environmental racism - and is also geologically unsuitable for long-term storage of waste. The nuclear industry wants to rebuild nuclear power plants, but needs somewhere to dump the highly radioactive fuel rods after they become to dangerous to use.

The point is, if you want to go help out native peoples, then moping about some collective guilt on Thanksgiving day isn't the way to go. Write all your representatives and demand that they shut down the Yucca Mountain waste facility instead - that'll be more effective than abandoning Thanksgiving. Notice also that stopping global warming and nuclear proliferation is good for everyone.

The history of the environmental, economic and social effects of Peabody can be found at Peabody Energy Assaults Native Arizona, by Justin Stein.

The history of genocide in the Americas is well-documented, but doesn't fit in with the 'social conditioning' role of history in American education. In the eyes of the neocon warmongers and their ilk, history is supposed to glorify the nation's past and form the basis for blind obedience to the state. So, all you right-wingers can wave your flag and send your kids off to die in foreign wars for the financial benefit of your elite rulers. Fools and Tools!

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Awareness of the past & a vision for the future
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Posted by: kathara12 on Nov 23, 2006 5:58 AM   
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Many people are making complementary points. We need to know our true history, because the lies that we are fed do affect our world view now. Thank you, AlterNet, for posting this article (although it's good to know from a few readers that the reference to India was erroneous and misplaced). At the same time, we transform our history through our deeds and attitudes now. This is why it's important to appreciate our blessings and enjoy those we spend time with today--while, at the same time, demonstrating kindness and compassion toward ALL.

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Are some uncomfortable in their whiteness? lol
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Posted by: WhatNow? on Nov 23, 2006 6:11 AM   
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It's funny to see an article like this makes people uncomfortable. Some must not like their holiday being denigrated. Big deal!

I'm glad I have the day off especially considering I'm injured. I need rest.

I won't overeat. I rarely if ever do.

I will show a little thanks for the redskins that cared for this land and kept it such a wonderful place for a bunch of greedy Europeans to plunder. The white man may make this land a cesspool but you can be sure the natives never will. And for that I will thank them.

Oh yeah, this holidays signals there will soon be another bullshit holiday.

Happy holidays everybody!

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Thanksgiving
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Posted by: isthatso on Nov 23, 2006 6:15 AM   
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Has anyone here been to a casino lately ? Seems like the Indian tribes are doing quite well adapting to today's world.

» Good but you forgot Posted by: Lloyd Drako
» sour grapes by loser Posted by: monkopotamus
» Very few do Posted by: harpy

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Hey! Thanks a lot!
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Street Prophet on Nov 23, 2006 6:43 AM   
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Thanks for eviscerating the Constitution.

Thanks for bypassing habeas corpus.

Thanks for turning public schools into prisons.

Thanks for a police state.

Thanks for turning over public land to the U.N.

Thanks for outsourcing jobs.

Thanks for compromised media.

Thanks for dirty looks.

Thanks for genocide.

Thanks for taxes.

Thanks for corporations.

Thanks for if you don't like it get out of this country.

Thanks for pardoning turkeys.

Thanks for another in a long list of fake wars.

Thanks for the New World Order.

» Thanks for the memory.... Posted by: Cathyc

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America's High Holy Days
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Posted by: Lloyd Drako on Nov 23, 2006 6:47 AM   
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should be joined by a new one: June 25, the anniversary of the Little Big Horn. On that day, we will all whoop and holler and don paint and feathers and little children will go door to door chanting Lakota war cries and demanding pemmican and whisky in exchange for not torching the house and tomahawking everyone inside, and we will all have backyard buffalo barbecues with squash and pumpkin and succotash, and retailers will benefit hugely from advance sales of Yellow Hair wigs (for ease of scalping) and decorated lodgepoles for the front yard and cards wishing near and dear ones a joyous First Americans Day. There, now we're even.

By the way, one should not confuse John Winthrop's Puritan Massachusetts Bay Colony with the earlier Plymouth Colony which in general was much more benign in its treatment of the locals.

Now let's all dig in and don't forget to let out your belt.

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Wait A Minute
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Posted by: NoPCZone on Nov 23, 2006 7:01 AM   
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It's been years since college and I had almost forgotten how removed from reality some academics are. This guy should sit down with Ward Churchill- the hot air alone could melt all the glaciers in Alaska.

Thanksgiving is a day of remembrance and thankfulness for what we have. Like a lot of other facets of our history, it was birthed in the ugliness of a different time by people who should have known better. We cannot undo that past for far too much time has past and the people harmed have long since departed this life.

The Thanksgiving Holiday, in it's official form, was begun by President Lincoln during the Civil War although it had been widely, but not universally, celebrated prior to that time. Like all things in American life, it has evolved over time.

The stories of the Pilgrims have become the creation myth of the US and whitewashed the grave injustice visited upon those already immigrated here when european settlers arrived. That's right- the 'Native' Americans came from Asia and the 'Invaders' came from Europe- neither was sourced in this hemisphere, Mr Professor.

Question, Mr Professor: Just how many generations does one's DNA need to reside in a place before one is considered native? Before you answer, think and tell me this: on what basis do you make the judgement necessary to answer that question.

The plain and simple fact is that we all have things that we can be thankful for; regardless of our race, ethnicity, sex, orientation, situation, faith, or nationality. The attitude of being thankful is a very good thing. It can be as simple as recognizing all of the bounty we largely take for granted. It should also be tinged with remembrance of the evils done in the name of progress, conquest and manifest destiny.

My sincere hope is that this day you are in a safe & peaceful place, surrounded by people you love, in good health and spirit, living in grace with mercy toward others. Sometime during this day, remember all that we as Americans have that many lack. Remember all the people who have bravely faced down oppression to remake America into a more fair and equitable place. Remember the sacrifice that your ancestors have made so that you could have opportunity beyond any that they ever had. And remember the suffering of people oppressed in times past as well as this very hour, because they lack so many of the things we are blessed with.

We can all be thankful, we should all be thankful, we should also hope for the day that all people have good reason to be thankful. That's what this day means to me.

» RE: Wait A Minute Posted by: kittynboi
» answer mr no-pc-zone: (pc=iq) Posted by: monkopotamus

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We all live on stolen land.
[Report this comment]
Posted by: leerhok on Nov 23, 2006 7:05 AM   
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Every single person on earth lives on land once (or rather several times) conquered by means of genocide or ethnical cleansing or both!
After some time (say one hundred years) reversing such an incident becomes the greater evil and status quo the lesser - as the present Israel so sadly proves!

» RE:Stolen Land Posit Posted by: NoPCZone
» false... try reading a book sometime Posted by: monkopotamus
» Wrong Again Posted by: NoPCZone
» Perps & Victims Posted by: Cathyc
» RE: Perps & Victims Posted by: Lauren
» ego problems cloud article Posted by: monkopotamus

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Exc point, I'm unsubscribing
[Report this comment]
Posted by: pzo on Nov 23, 2006 7:33 AM   
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I consider myself a liberal and work for social justice. But I get SO tired of PC, self-flagellating, angst laden, liberalism.

Yes, we need to help Indians (their preferred term, not the liberal's "Native American) attain economica and social equality. But we can't undo history.

Alternet's open door policies for Mexicans and closed door for what has already happened, indeed, shows the hypocrisy.

I'm unsubscribing.

» hear no evil Posted by: monkopotamus
» Don't know any Indians... Posted by: YinRising
» Who said you weren't a teacher? Posted by: YinRising

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And, pro-choice says...
[Report this comment]
Posted by: ABetterFuture on Nov 23, 2006 7:43 AM   
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...that the author is more than justified in feeling whatever emotion he chooses today.

It is entertaining to watch, however, his idea that others should share in his belief structure bounce happily over and past the bounds of credibility.

On the other hand, if he can dig up a 500 year old Pilgrim and a suitable target for an apology, he is more than welcome to waste his time doing so. I suggest, however, that in the interest of comprehensiveness, he start with Pharoah first.

Oops. Was that not PC?

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Bah
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Logic's Edge on Nov 23, 2006 7:49 AM   
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Is there anything Alternet authors won't attack? Why don't you get out and actually do something if you're so pissed with state of the world. Or go lock yourselves in closets if the world is such a horrible place and you want to feel guilty and responsible for everything that's happened since the start of time.

» poor guilty bah Posted by: monkopotamus

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Indians killed more Europeans than vice-versa
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Posted by: albrechtkrausse on Nov 23, 2006 7:53 AM   
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I know its not 'politically correct', since white people are the most evil thing ever (really the Chinese term "white devil" is an appropriate term), BUT I'll state the facts anyway:
the Indians ('native Americans') killed more white people (Europeans) than were killed by them. Facts:

1) Syphyllis came to Europe (i.e. 'evil white people') from the 'new world'. Until penicillin there was no cure for it (other than not screwing around but you know how effect that is for evil whites.)

2) They gave Europe (evil whitey) tobacco. Lung cancer, emphesema, throat cancer, and mouth cancer kills more people worldwide EVERY YEAR (including evil white people) than the evil white people killed upon visiting the 'new world'. This 'crop' has has decimated the environment due to single-crop planting, soil depletion, and its uses as a PESTICIDE historically (actually KILLING Giai's children!)

3) Potatoes came from the 'new world'. This resulted in segments adopting this food as their primary staple (including the MOST evil because they are white and CATHOLIC the Irish.) Once the blight started MANY evil Irish catholics died.

» RE: What Bull Manure This Post Is!!! Posted by: albrechtkrausse
» Jonathan Swift You Are Not Posted by: Douglas
» RE: Jonathan Swift You Are Not Posted by: albrechtkrausse
» try re-reading... more carefully Posted by: monkopotamus
» How Socratic of you. Posted by: Scientz
» Deluded Yes, But Evil? Posted by: Douglas

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I'm still eating turkey today
[Report this comment]
Posted by: AdamG on Nov 23, 2006 8:00 AM   
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Fast all you want if you really feel that guilty.

On my mothers side of the family, I am desendant from Captain John Smith. On my father's side, my relatives came from Mexico. They have a high percentage of native blood, Huichol and Tzetzal specifically. I am directly desendant from a brother of Emiliano Zapata. Does that mean my mom and dad cancel each others guilt trip and that it's OK for me to be thankful to be in America?

I want to point out, the Native Americans weren't always native and weren't always the virtuous beings we potray them to be. When mongoloid peoples came across the Bering Straits, this continent had been habited by animals for millions of years. In the first few hundred years of colonialisation by these mongoloid peoples, many animals, especially large land mammals, went extinct. Mere coincidence? Probably not. Also, through the use of fire to clear land and scare game, the landscape was greatly altered. Why not on this continent, it is thought the Aborgines of Australia drastically altered the terrain there with the overuse of fire and made a good portion of desert that was once forested. Native Hawaiians were just as bad. When Polynesians reached the Hawaiian islands, they brought dogs, pigs, and slash/burn/taro agriculture. They greatly altered that landscape. Many endemic ground nesting birds were driven to extinction.

We have come to a point in the history of humanity where there are virtually none of us without blood on our hands. I think it would be more constructive to acknowledge each others history, even the bad part, and move forward. There are many issues that are in urgent need of attention. If we all don't start working on these things together, we are all doomed.

» Congratulate yer bad self! Posted by: Lloyd Drako
» We are ALL? doomed?? Posted by: Cathyc

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We Should Atone For Native American Genocide
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Posted by: Douglas on Nov 23, 2006 8:22 AM   
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Professor Robert Jensen has done us a great service by reminding us of the genocide that marked the creation of this nation. There is nothing controversial about the story he tells and by now it should be accepted by all. It has been more than a century and a quarter since the publication of Helen Hunt Jackson's A Century of Dishonor, a book that documented the genocide of native American peoples. It has been thirty five years since the publication of Dee Bowen's definitive and meticulously researched Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee, a book which even more fully documents the genocide that marked the development of this nation. It is very disheartening that so many people who consider themselves "progressives" are still "in denial" about this matter. The failure of the public schools to honestly teach about the genocide of native American peoples in American history courses is part of the problem. Until the American public knows and can honestly acknowledge its genocidal past it is likely that we shall continue to repeat it. Our nation's slaughter of Filipino insurgents after the Spanish American war, the slaughter of two million Vietnamese and Cambodians in the 1960s and 70s, the current slaughter of one out of every seventy Iraqis, and the continued US funding and approval of Israel's genocide of the Palestinians, all of these suggest that we have not yet been able to admit to and atone for our past dishonourable treatment of native Americans. Until we are capable as a nation of admitting and atoning for our past "crimes" against native Americans we are likely to continue committing crimes against other peoples. Thanks to Robert Jensen for including some "truth telling" on this Thanksgiving Day!!

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Bad editorial judgment
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Raoul Duke 63 on Nov 23, 2006 8:33 AM   
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As others have pointed out, some in less than comradely terms, this story represents exactly the sort of kernel-of-truth conflated into a rigid and tedious moral posture that marginalizes the Left in mainstream American political culture. (In fact, to be truly conspiratorial about it, one could wonder whether such "stories" are regularly planted by our opponents on the Right.) It is difficult to endorse self-censorship of such views. However, as progressives are perhaps once again gaining a foothold in national politics, it would might behoove media outlets like Alternet not to present views like the ones in this story as widely representative of this community's views. The editors at Alternet should have run this story, in other words, as a sidebar, not as the headline feature that they did.

» RE: Bad editorial judgment Posted by: kittynboi
» RE: Bad editorial judgment Posted by: Raoul Duke 63
» Progressive Racism Posted by: StuartH
» RE: Progressive Racism Posted by: Raoul Duke 63
» Why? Make you feel guilty Posted by: harpy
» RE: Why? Make you feel guilty Posted by: Raoul Duke 63

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Bad editorial judgment
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Posted by: Raoul Duke 63 on Nov 23, 2006 8:35 AM   
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As others have pointed out, some in less than comradely terms, this story represents exactly the sort of kernel-of-truth conflated into a rigid and tedious moral posture that marginalizes the Left in mainstream American political culture. (In fact, to be truly conspiratorial about it, one could wonder whether such "stories" are regularly planted by our opponents on the Right.) It is difficult to endorse self-censorship of such views. However, as progressives are perhaps once again gaining a foothold in national politics, it might behoove media outlets like Alternet not to present views like the ones in this story as widely representative of this community's views. The editors at Alternet should have run this story, in other words, as a sidebar, not as the headline feature that they did.

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an Indian viewpoint
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Posted by: ellie on Nov 23, 2006 8:37 AM   
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just got the bird in the oven and we are planning both turkey and frybread today with family favorites... seems that there has been a lot of guilt ridden comments posted during the time I first pulled down this story this morning and now have time to reply...

in my family and with friends, we consider thanksgiving either 'there goes the neighborhood day' or a fall harvest feed... all are welcome at my house whenever they are hungry, no set time for a sit down meal, we are greatful for the food but also that we survived another years attempt at forced assimilation, racial profiling and institutionalized racism...

we are still here, we do not want to assimilate, we prefer to be known by our tribal nation affiliation, we morn for our dead, hug our living and do our damndest to keep out identity theft...

we are here today, not just in stereotypical and innacurate history books, but are vibrant sovereign nations with non Indians living around us... we have many of our oral histories intact, we give credit where due and refuse to give up...

just some of my own thoughts,
Ellie, PhD
Member, Rosebud Sioux Tribe of South Dakota

» RE: an Indian viewpoint Posted by: YogiBear
» ironic Posted by: monkopotamus
» ironic Posted by: monkopotamus
» Thank you for doing that Posted by: harpy
» RE: an Indian viewpoint Posted by: WitchyNy
» RE: an Indian viewpoint Posted by: mjabele
» RE: an Indian viewpoint Posted by: Gma1

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This day
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Posted by: fifthworld on Nov 23, 2006 8:38 AM   
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It's interesting to note that Native Americans, here in NM and all over, celebrate Thxgiving as much - or more authentically and sincerely - than many others on this day. Unfortunately it's a commercial holiday and so it is crass and superficial on one side. But it's an opportunity for humble expression of thanks to the Creator, and all else that sustains - even through murderous invasions and occupations past and present.

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Atonement and Thanksgiving
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Posted by: tiellis on Nov 23, 2006 8:40 AM   
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We need both. There is nothing wrong with giving thanks, with gratitude for the food we eat, the material comforts we enjoy, the constitutional rights we (used to) enjoy, and the living planet we inhabit, regardless of the historical mythology that led to this holiday. And there is much to be said for a Day of Atonement...for everyone.

As for historical mythology, it is important to remember that every nation on Earth has its self-serving foundational myths, its rationalizations, and its skeletons in the closet. We are hardly alone in that respect.

So while Jensen's observation is correct--that the genocide of Native Americans was central to the agenda of the European settlers who established this nation--this large-scale atrocity is not unique to us either. The Japanese likewise slaughtered the Ainu; the Russians, the Siberian peoples and the Kulaks; the Turks, the Armenians; the Ancient Israelites, the Canaanites, and so on ad nauseam. Genocide is a recurrent historical process, whenever one ethnicity with a technological edge decides it wants another ethnicity's land. The Bantu people, after all, once they alone developed metallurgy, happily proceeded to slaughter and displace all the other stone-age (i.e. non-metallurgical) cultures they encountered as they quickly spread throughout subsaharan Africa, leaving only marginal groups like the Hottentots and Kalihari Bush peoples on marginal lands.

So we all need to give thanks, and we all need to atone. Why not have a feast on Thanksgiving, and a fast the day after?

» The Kulaks Posted by: Lloyd Drako

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I'm a Jewish American Vegan
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Posted by: veggiegrrrl on Nov 23, 2006 8:50 AM   
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I'm a Jewish American Vegan and Thanksgiving weekend is time to make great vegan food for friends and family and a 4-day weekend. Woo Hoo. I am thankful for all my vegan and vegetarian friends, vegan food, and time away from the job. Thanksgiving is also the weekend I clean out my closets and do my "Spring Cleaning." I will be donating clothes and such to the homeless in San Francisco. I give away what is no longer useful to those who are needy.

Yes, we commmitted genocide to get this land. And yes, we are committing genocide all over the planet in the name of "freedom." But let us look at our personal genocide when every year, we murder and eat billions of animals who suffer and die in agony.

» RE: I'm a Jewish American Vegan Posted by: blitzmesser

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nothing like proving his point...
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Posted by: maddy on Nov 23, 2006 9:03 AM   
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These comments are loaded with the very justifications, denials, evasions, and apoplectic fits Jensen predicted.

The apoplectic fits are obvious: the trolls who can do nothing but sputter, name call, and reduce everything to a dick fight.

But, why is it so easy for the other folks here to slip into the false logic that to understand our past is to "blame" the currently living? To *refuse* to see the past, in all its ugliness, *is* an act of complicity. But it's not about whether any contemporary white person is to "blame." The leap to that position exposes the magnitude of white denial and this perverse insistence that all contemporary conversations about race--even about irrefutable acts of horror from the past--must prioritize white comfort. The almost-childlike outbursts of "it's not my fault, it's not my fault" are so revelatory. White comfort is more important than the genocide itself. The racial narcissism of that is staggering.