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Before the 9/11 Conspiracies, There Was the Oklahoma Bombing

By Matt Taibbi, RollingStone.com. Posted October 24, 2006.


Much of the faulty logic and circumstancial evidence that justifies the 9/11 conspiracies are repeats of the theories that abounded in Timothy McVeigh's Oklahoma City bombing.

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Over a month after I first wrote a column slamming the 9/11 Truth movement, I continue to get hate mail in massive quantities. A group of Truthers even picketed my office, and I'm still picking food particles out of my scarf after an incident in which the movement's house lunatic, a wild-eyed German blogger named Nico Haupt, tried to goad me into slugging him in a West Side diner.

"Go ahead, heet me, then I haf beeg story!" he roared, scream-spitting half-digested detritus in my face.

Of course I didn't hit him -- nothing in the world is more ridiculous than two writers fighting in a restaurant. If you're surprised that I would call someone who spit food on my lap a fellow writer, don't be. As I subsequently found out, Haupt is a literary juggernaut, one of the most voluble bloggers on the planet earth. His internet entries read like a MySpace mixture of MTV's Real World meets Che's Congo Diaries, only on meth and in a German accent.

His 9/11 conspiracy rants are full of little tidbits from the peripatetic revolutionary's hardscrabble life neatly gift-wrapped for his future biographers, ranging from the personal ("My girlfriend denied to marry me... I'm constantly broke.") to the heroic ("Maybe I'm scared that the Homeland Security will arrest me as a 'terrorist'? Not at all."). Haupt also makes sure to include regular doses of that other staple of pseudo-revolutionary diaries, i.e. the defiant salutation to the secret agents who of course have him under constant surveillance. "A personal note to the NSA, who's a regular log-in guest on my sites," he writes. "You're still bastards for me... Shame on you and go to hell!"

But my personal favorite was his theory about how the government's 9/11 conspirators tied up one particularly dangerous loose end:

I always was and always will be a big fan of Ed Asner's movies and TV series, especially "rich man, poor man." Last week, i was a bit disappointed that Asner "caved in" and basically made a u-turn, by writing that 9/11 was based on negligence. I heard a different view a long while ago, even personally from him on the phone. Someone else might speculate, why this has happened now. Maybe someone threatened Asner with some infos of his past?

Now there's a subject someone should investigate. What does the government have on Ed Asner? Photos of him shooting smack into Gavin McLeod's ankle? The lost pilot of Gay Lou Grant? If anyone out there has any idea, please don't hesitate to write.

Obviously, Nico Haupt does not represent the "mainstream" 9/11 Truth Movement, whatever that is. Even in my own experience I know this to be true. The colleagues of Haupt's from 911Truth.org whom I met that day were universally polite, respectful, and very sincere in their beliefs. True, they had some slightly bent ideas (one woman insisted with a straight face that the military was "behind all that Brad and Jennifer stuff"), but as a group they were nice, earnest people.

Unfortunately, I get the sense that these same nice people have a tendency to turn hostile, venomous and unrelentingly paranoid once they get logged back into an email server, which is why most journalists I know won't go near the 9/11 Truth issue more than once, if at all. On the one hand most reporters don't think it's a serious enough issue to bother with twice, and on the other hand nobody wants to deal with the torrent of abuse that comes with trying -- it's like shoving your head into a beehive. "I'd rather be poked in the eye with a sharp stick than write about that shit again," is how one columnist put it to me.

I'm sure I'll reach that point soon. In the meantime, I feel a need to share something I noticed while studying for a debate I'm supposedly having soon with some of the movement leaders. I doubt it will convince anyone who actually believes this stuff, but it's certainly worth pointing out that the 9/11 Truth movement is not only a cynical fiction, it's a recycled cynical fiction.

Take the central "fact" of 9/11 Truth lore, the rhetorical anchor of the entire movement -- the idea that the Twin Towers did not collapse as a result of the gigantic plane/jet-fuel explosions we all saw on television, but because of secondary explosions in other parts of the buildings that were hidden from view. This idea was rocketing around the conspiracy world in almost the exact same rhetorical format just six years before, after the Oklahoma City Federal building bombing.

In that case, it was mostly right-wing conspiracy theorists who came up with the idea that the McVeigh/Nichols fertilizer bomb could not possibly have felled the Murrah building, and that the real cause of the building's collapse was a much more powerful "second explosion" planned by the government and executed using more powerful demolition explosives.


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Matt Taibbi is a writer for Rolling Stone.

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opinion of structural engineer
Posted by: OldGVerden on Oct 24, 2006 4:08 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This comment is not to Matt but to everyone who reads these comments. I work as a structural engineer so I do know a little about building construction, although my experience is mainly with 1- and 2-story buildings. Structural engineers typically work with architects to make sure that whatever the architect wants to see space-wise can be built. In shorthand, my job is to make sure the building (or any part of it) does not fall down or over. "Gravity sucks and wind blows."...ba ha ha, get it? Don't worry, neither does my wife.
I dug into this issue because I wanted to know why the buildings came down. The more I read, the more the anomalies (sp?) piled up. I do not know what happened that day, but I do know that a lot of things don't add up - WTC7, multiple military games scheduled for that day, put and call options, etc, etc.
All I can say is read and think. Come to your own conclusions. Don't let Matt intimidate you into closing your mind. Oh, and anyone in a foreign country have an extra bed?

» RE: opinion of structural engineer Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: opinion of structural engineer Posted by: Conservasaurus
» Who pays Alternet? Posted by: Idunno
» RE: Who pays Alternet? Posted by: jfrank68
» RE: opinion of a physicist Posted by: don_alejandro
» RE: opinion of a physicist Posted by: vangogh69
Matt isn't intimidating..
Posted by: sln70 on Oct 24, 2006 5:31 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
he's OBSESSED.
Or maybe he's just pimping himself out to the 9/11 truth community because he loves the attention.

I have a diagnosis for Mr. Taibbi.
There are those who truly don't believe that the US government was in ANY way involved in 9/11. Fine. Cool.
Then there are those who think maybe something was up, but not what the 9/11 truth community says. All right, they'll likely do their own research and get back to us.
Finally, we have Matt's type. These are the people who have already looked down the rabbit hole.. taken the red-pill ... worn the tin-foil hat .. whatever you'd like to call it, and they've seen something big, ugly, black and scary. They want so badly NOT to believe what they already beleive that they run around screaming that 'it can't be true it can't be true! They try and humiliate the people who have the courage of their convictions in order to prevent their own brains from traveling any further down that road.

Matt, it's okay. You'll live. Come to the dark side: we have cookies!

» Psychobabble Posted by: brunowe
» RE: Psychobabble Posted by: gretavo
» RE: Psychobabble Posted by: brunowe
» RE: Psychobabble Posted by: pegcarter
» Quite a chance actually Posted by: brunowe
» RE: Psychobabble Posted by: pegcarter
» wow, you are so wrong! Posted by: gretavo
» Not at all Posted by: brunowe
» RE: Not at all Posted by: JoeCraine
» RE: Not at all Posted by: gretavo
» RE: Not at all Posted by: brunowe
» Not at all... Posted by: brunowe
» Ha! Keep trying! Posted by: gretavo
» I rest my case! Posted by: gretavo
» Interesting Coincidences Posted by: kogwonton
» RE: Psychobabble Posted by: jwg
» RE: Psychobabble Posted by: LeftWright
Ad Hominem Attack
Posted by: rwa on Oct 24, 2006 7:14 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The writer spends 8 paragraphs on attacking an irrelevant foreigner before getting to the subject. The attacks serve one purpose, to alienate the reader from those who question the myths. Why is his case so weak that he needs to resort to this?
When he does get to the substance, he simply doesn't offer any explanation as to why all those witnesses heard two explosions or what created that crater in the middle of the Murrah building. Pathetic. We are supposed to ignore all the facts because some "right wingers" are among those who doubt our government.

» complete absence of facts = pyschobabble Posted by: thoughtcriminal
AWWW POOR MATT
Posted by: OWN-the-NWO on Oct 25, 2006 1:10 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Your hyperbole may work in your colums, but when you get into a factual debate about 9/11 you are going to walk away with your tail between your legs. While I despise nico, as much as most of the rest of the movement (the guy believes the planes were holograms for christs sake). I despise you more, because you are a tantamount example of what is wrong with "journalists". You pick and choose the weaker or more circumstantial arguments about 9/11, build strawmen, then try and "debunk" the whole thing. Efforts as pathetically transparent as the popular mechanics crowd. Just as with the lead researcher for their book, when faced with tough questions from charles goyette a self-proclaimed agnostic on 9/11, you as well will look like a total fool in above his head.

5mb audio

» Yet more psychobabble Posted by: thoughtcriminal
» thoughtcriminal caught in obvious lie Posted by: Iconoclast421
» btw, a note about "psychobabble" Posted by: Iconoclast421
» very common PR strategies Posted by: gretavo
» RE: AWWW POOR MATT Posted by: ewing2001
» Nico you are an embarrassment Posted by: OWN-the-NWO
wow...
Posted by: guerillaTHOUGHTterrorist on Oct 25, 2006 1:32 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm sorry, since when was rolling stone a reputable source of news with any substinence. I guess that's the first problem in America, we have nowhere left to go for reputable news anymore, but the fact of the matter is that American military might is the greatest in the world, and was so during the 9/11 attack. Why was it that our radar detection system who is able to spot multiple incoming torpedos was not able to detect a single plane heading towards new york city? Nevermind the fact that Bush waited more than a year before even naming someone to head the 9/11 cover-up commission, 411 days to be exact, and who better to head that commission but the cover-up king, henry kissinger, but due to public outcry, he was replaced by two people very closely linked to the White House. Nevermind the fact that three simaltaneus war-game training exercises had most of our military fighters over the water, in canada, and in alaska. We were limited to 8 fighter jets at andrews airforce base to look into 22 possible hijack situations. Nevermind the fact that Bush's friends stood to gain with the massive military build up following this tragedy. And nevermind the fact that to this day, e have not had a true independent inquiry into the greatest single tragedy on US soil since Pearl Harbor. The price of freedom is vigilence, and somewhere along history, we have given up our responsiblities and have allowed corporate america to put the people in a stranglehold. We have allowed lobbyists to infest our system and drown out the cries of the people. today, there are 125 lobbyists for every politician in Washington representing everything from NPO's to corporate interests. And who funds politicians' campaigns but the corporations who hold the wealth. Call me a socialist, a terrorist, but I still call myself American. I call those who attempt to limit my rights as traitors. I know my rights, I know my constitution which the founding fathers risked their all for, yet others dare call me unpatriotic, unamerican. I call them sheep, lemmings, drones unquestionably following others because they fear thinking for themselves. Sure they can watch the news and feel informed, but we ned to examine the disinformation pouring out of our media. There is no more vigilence on their part for seeking the truth, they are just another extentsion of corporate interests, but i digress.
The power to question is gradually disappearing. There are those who would call me a conspiracy theorist, imagine me sitting in a shack out in the forest with a bare light bulb penning angry letters to the government. think what you will but once a person stops exercising their rights is the moment that the government starts to take them away. Just read the patriot act and about "free-speech zones." words are only words, and the actions of this administration have continually contradicted their floral speeches about how other countries hate our freedoms. There is no more accountability on the part of the government, and that is the surest sign that our government has turned toxic. We must question because if we don't, then the government is no longer a true representation of the people's will, which by very definition is a democracy.

» RE: wow... Posted by: babs
Let's talk about the 9/18 and 10/9 terror attacks instead
Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Oct 25, 2006 1:32 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Remember the anthrax in the mail that sent off to media outlets and Democratic Senators, and which filtered out through the envelopes and killed a few postal workers?

In contrast to 9/11, only five people died due to the anthrax attacks, but they shut down the Hart Senate Office building and darkened the House of Representatives for almost a week.

The culprit has never been found, but all the evidence indicates that the powder was a highly sophisticated bioweapon that only a few people with high security clearances knew how to make, and those people were within the US biowarfare-biodefense programs.

It is possible that a 'lone wolf' actor snuck out of a classified lab with some of this stuff, and it's also possible that such a person could sneak a nuclear warhead out of a lab - but let's just say that it's highly unlikely that that would be the case.

The whole thing stinks to high heaven - how many times has the FBI switched the top investigator off the job (at least three times)? Now the FBI is claiming that it was not a high-tech weapon, but lets look at Richard Preston's reporting in his book on biowarfare entitled, "The Demon in the Freezer" - on Oct 16, the USAMRIID researchers at Fort Detrick, who had dealt with horrors such as Ebola (read Preston's other book, "The Hot Zone"), started analysing the samples:

pg 165: "The view was wall-to-wall spores. The spores were ovoids, rather like footballs but with more softly rounded ends. The material seemed to be absolutely pure spores."

pg 166: "Whoa, (Peter) Jahrling muttered, hunched over the eyepieces. Something was boiling off the spores. "This is clearly bad stuff", he said. This was not your mother's anthrax. The spores had something in them, an additive, perhaps. Could this material have come from a national bioweapons program?"

Then a sample was sent to Battelle, who autoclaved it:
pg 171: "The helicopter took off with the sample and thupped westward over Maryland. It touched down in West Jefferson, Ohio, near Columbus, at the Hazardous Materials Research Center of the Battelle Memorial Institute, a nonprofit scientific research and consulting organization. Battelle scientists took the 'hatbox' into the lab. They heated the anthrax powder in an autoclave... the spores were stuck together in lumps."

pg 174:"The spores of anthrax went straight through the paper of the Daschle envelope and other anthrax envelopes full of ultrafine powder...even though they had been sealed tightly with tape."

pg 176:"The (anthrax) skulls were falling apart. He could see them crumbling into tiny clumps and individual spores, smaller and smaller as he watched. This was anthrax designed to fall apart in the air, to self-crumble... He had a national security clearance, and knew something about anthrax, but he could not imagine how this weapon had been made"

pg 177 "Jahrling ran upstairs, closed the door and stared at the anthrax for a long time. He didn't say much. Geisbert's security clearance was rated secret, and the details of how this material could have been made might be more highly classified...he had the classified safe opened. He studied a document or documents with red-shaded borders that would appear to contain exact technical formulas for various kinds of weapons-grade anthrax....Jahrling refers to the secret of skull anthrax as the Anthrax Trick, though he won't discuss it."

(post continued on next page)

Continued 9/18 and 10/9 post
Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Oct 25, 2006 1:33 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
pg 178: "The Army scientists were telling the FBI that the powder was extremely refined and dangerous, while a Battelle scientist named Michael Kuhlman was allegedly saying that the anthrax was ten to fifty times less potent that the Army was claiming... One Army official is said to have blown up at Simons and Kuhlman at the meeting, saying to the Battelle man, "Goddamn it, you stuk your anthrax in an autoclave, and you turned it into hockey pucks."

Well, it's fun to speculate, but prime suspect number one appears to be Battelle Memorial Institute - and guess who just signed on to the 'public-private partnership' to run the University of California's nuclear labs (along with Bechtel and BWXT) - yup - Battelle! They have plans to build a new biowarfare research center in Tracy.

It's also worth noting that whoever handled the anthrax must have been vaccinated with it - and who was the sole manufacturer of anthrax vaccine - no, it wasn't Bioport of MI, they had been contracting Battelle to manufacture the vaccine (as is Vaxgen).

And now the FBI and the Washington Post are claiming that "in spite of previous reports, the anthrax was not 'weaponized' and there were no additives".

Liars, Liars, Pants On Fire!

You must be thinking your readers are really stupid, mr. Taibbi
Posted by: JP2 on Oct 25, 2006 1:36 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
After your last article against the 9/11 truth movement, you got asked in the comments numerous questions; you received criticism and support from the readers and you completely ignored it; you have been treated quite fairly for being someone dismissing as stupidity the fight of many for what they consider the truth to be uncovered.
Yet you come back now with the same bullying behavior, making yourself strong of the few that helped your case insulting you.

You ignore again, as you'll always do, the simple fact that people deserve their questions answered. You consider yourself a journalist, how come this simple principle does not occur to you?
You can go on forever to pick facts and opinions and make fun of them and have fantasies about being a journalist. But the simple fact that the people out there are waiting for answers will always be lost on you.

You're no martyr, mr. Taibbi. You're just a depressing bad journalist.
Now you're pulling the same kind of intimidatory behavior again. You're not considering any of the objections you got the last time; you're not interested in a real debate because you're full of contempt for the stupid peons of the 9/11, and that's settles it for you.

Are your readers supposed to waste their time to object to you again and again while you ignore any of their questions and arguments?

Since you think so much of yourself that you don't need to face a real discussion, and you only pick up some twisted fact you feel safe to debunk (or so you believe), I personally am giving up on you. I hope everyone else does.

» Ho hum - more of the same mush Posted by: thoughtcriminal
» Nice try... Posted by: JP2
» Not So Nice Try... Posted by: Douglas
» RE: Not So Nice Try... Posted by: JP2
» RE: Not So Nice Try... Posted by: gretavo
» what?? Posted by: Iconoclast421
» RE: what?? Posted by: rwa
» Wow ... Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Wow ... Posted by: rwa
» RE: Wow ... Posted by: Joshua Holland
» You're making that up ... Posted by: Joshua Holland
» I want an investigation! Posted by: mjabele
» What was on the lawn? Posted by: LeftWright
» Plane debris..... Posted by: mjabele
» Eyewitness accounts Posted by: mjabele
» More eyewitnesses. Posted by: mjabele
» RE: what?? Posted by: pegcarter
» RE: Not So Nice Try... Posted by: pegcarter
» Same "eyewitnesses" same reply Posted by: LeftWright
» More eyewitnesses Posted by: mjabele
» RE: Not So Nice Try... Posted by: pegcarter
» Mr. Taibbi has found his literary niche Posted by: Conservasaurus
» Those nasty % Posted by: Conservasaurus
» Never doubt LOVE Posted by: LeftWright
» Topic for next 9?11 Truth book Posted by: eddie torres
» RE: Topic for next 9?11 Truth book Posted by: Conservasaurus
Can you tell us what you think happened?
Posted by: pingoo on Oct 25, 2006 2:04 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Dear Matt,

This is the second article of yours that I read in which you ridicule the 9/11 truth movement. While everyone is entitled to their opinion of course, I find the way you bunch up all the people who beleive that there is more to the event of 9/11 than what the whole world has been told as paranoid conspiracy theorists as rather insulting. Although there are those who are more obsessed than others about this issue you should tread a bit more carefully, as the majority of people who have questions simply just want to know more about a historic event for which no real investigation has been conducted. The official story is riddled with inconsistencies. Many 'facts' outlined in the official 9/11 report have been found to be false. Does this not demand a new independent and thorough investigation to what happened that day? Can you really say that you are satisfied with the official story and have no more questions to ask? Considering what this event unleashed upon the world in the past five-six years it is imperitive that the truth or at least more truth be revealed. The mere fact that the US government has held back on pursuing an open investigation is reason enough to suspect that there may be some government involvment.

In any case, your articles seem to be contributing to those who hold back on new information being given to the public about 9/11. You talk about inexperienced and unqualified people making statements that they clearly are parrotting because someone planted a conspiracy theory in their head. Well, last I checked the Rolling Stone Magazine was not an authority on structural engineering or politocs or world affairs in that matter, so what exactly gives you the right to put the breaks on a theory that, although it may be proven wrong, is making Amricans and people around the globe push for more clarity and truth? Who are you to say that people are wrong for having an alternative theory?

There is no doubt in the fact that the current US administration has lied multiple times on a variety of current affairs events - the mose famous of which and one that is hardly held against them enough is the claim that Iraq had WMD's and that as a country it was a danger to the security of the United States. That said, do you really trust these people to hold back crucial information from the public as they have been doing with 9/11?

Rather than continuosly discrediting the 9/11 'conspiracy' theory as you do, why don't you write an article purely about what you beleive what happened that day even if it sticks strictly to the official story of the 9/11 commission. I find that your articles are often critical of many but never really reveal your position on the subject. If you are going to oppose a great number of people then at least have the courage to tell them what you stand for.

» RE: ridiculous Posted by: JP2
Good to see you haven't let the sh*t train deter you from writing about this topic
Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Oct 25, 2006 2:37 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In case you are wondering where some of this is coming from, check out this posting at Portland Independent Media Center by one 'reapost'. Quote: "I think it's time to write letters, send emails and make phone calls to Rolling Stone magazine." - followed by about a hundred links to your magazine. If only all that energy could go into investigating Rumsfeld's activities...

To see a timeline of the introduction of "the no-plane conspiracy theories", check out http://www.oilempire.us/no-plane-timeline.html. Kind of interesting, to be taken with the old grain of salt.

some highlights:
"2003 - Eric Hufschmid produces a movie Painful Deceptions, which claims a Global Hawk robot plane hit the Pentagon. The facts that hundreds of people saw the plane and that tons of plane parts were recovered were not mentioned in the film. Absolutely no one saw a Global Hawk in the vicinity of the Pentagon that day, and the debris did not match of Global Hawk, but that did not prevent the film from developing a substantial following in the 9/11 truth movement.

July 2004 - A website for the film In Plane Site is posted by the Power Hour, a right wing fundamentalist internet radio show in Missouri....The primary thesis of the website and the film is the discredited "pod" claim, but the film also promotes "Pentagon Missile" and a video montage claiming a dust cloud from the South Tower collapse was really a large explosion at the base of the towers (among other false claims)...

Summer 2005 - The first edition of the movie Loose Change is released. It promotes "Flight 77 did not hit Pentagon" and the WTC "pod" plane. The second edition, released a few months later drops the pod claim but adds the "no plane crash in Pennsylvania" hoax.

April 29, 2006 - USA Today reviews “no-plane” based film “Loose Change,” which its supporters think is a breakthrough accomplishment for the 9/11 truth movement. In reality, several USA Today reporters and editors saw Flight 77 while they were commuting to work on 9/11 (the USA Today building is not far from the Pentagon)...

June 5, 2006 - The New York Times publishes a long profile of the 911truth.org conference in Chicago that promotes Loose Change and ignores the issues of the warnings and wargames.
"

So what does it all mean? The 9/11 'how the towers collapsed' bit has been done to death by pbs, frontline, and others: The towers were built like grass stems - all the supports were on the outside of the building. The South Tower fell first, though hit second, because it was hit lower (and in the corner). The jet fuel and paper fire caused the metal to sag, not melt; as the floors sagged they pulled away from the outer structure and eventually collapsed. Recall the jagged spires sticking out of the ground? Those were the outer supports. None of this seems to have had any effect on the 9/11 Truthiness Movement, but then their main goals seems to involve hijacking discussions (check this thread - trolls on parade!) and smearing people. Notice also that they avoid naming Rice and Tenet (7/10 CIA briefing) or Rumsfeld, Rice, Cheney and Bush (Aug 6th PDB) - so why weren't some kind of warnings given to the airlines - like, 'we're expecting hijackings, and here's a list of potential suspects' - they coordinate well on drug smuggling cases, for example.

Oh, wait, I've got to go and pick up a call from my CIA handler now.

P.S. - A little reminder to Rumsfeld and the Rendon Group: Propaganda is a soft weapon. Hold it in your hand for long enough and it will turn on you. Hitler had the best propagandists in history - but he ended up shooting himself all the same.

» Embarassing Ignorance Posted by: rwa
Prove why the buildings fell so fast Matt. why the concrete turned to dust
Posted by: zarman on Oct 25, 2006 2:48 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hi Matt,
Since my brother died in the first tower, Geoffrey Cloud, I have been researching 9/11 for the reason of understanding, and finding the truth. Unlike you who are grandstanding this heinous event to further your career.
1.) Tell me how the 2 towers fell, and WTC fell so quickly? Structural and demolition engineers use their expertise to easliy explain it. You always fail to mention the university scientists (M.I.T., etc. )who claim controlled demolition. When you go to dispute the science as you say you will in your next article, will you go to them? I think not....as they are experts in their fields, and actually want to know the truth, unlike you.
2.) What turned all of that concrete into dust?
A building falling over does not turn into dust, and fall in to pieces over 60% the perfect size that is created in a controlled demolition.

Instead of your unprofessional name calling, in your next article please give us the sources(in detail) of your information so we can come to the same conclusions that you do. It is obvious that your research is no where near as detail oriented as many(not all) in the 9/11 truth movement.
Or even better, read the 9/11 document from the government that has so many holes in it, it loses all credibility. Show me where they are right, have you read it yet? I doubt it.
Watch this on google: David Ray Griffin - Testimony at the Congressional Black Caucus

You are grandstanding on the 9/11 truth movements work. You are looking through all of the their painstaking research, and deciding what to write about from it to prove your "points".
You are name calling, not creating original "investigative" journalism. You are creating shoddy journalism. Your articles further reinforce the belief in america that mainstream media is sanitized, bought and paid for. It is obvious that the passion for truth displayed by the german blogger is not existing in you at all.

Still looking for the 9/11 truth,
Michael Cloud

» logic no good Posted by: stormchilde1975
Death by liberal ego
Posted by: dainin on Oct 25, 2006 3:12 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's all over but the screaming.

This piece is a real doozy. I can almost see the bubble over his head with the words "If the Bush Administration was involved, then Rolling Stone and Alternot should have seen this before those crazy conspiracy theorists."

Looks like the pseudo-liberals of American pop media are starting to collapse faster than the WTC towers.

» pseudo-liberals Posted by: Iconoclast421
Blow The House Down - prelude and aftermath.
Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Oct 25, 2006 3:43 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The 9/11 Truthiness Movement's primary goal is to draw attention away from the pre- and post- 9/11 events. Since the topic is being ignored, and since I need more writing practice, let's consider those issues:

For pre-9/11, you want to read Robert Baer. In particular, read Blow The House Down. I'll recap a few of the facts that Baer uses (I won't pull a spoiler, don't worry):

-John O'Neill was forced into retirement when the FBI gave his personnel file to the NYT in early 2001 (he was the principle investigator on the Cole bombing).

(note) - David Frasca, the FBI agent who sat on Collen Rowley's urgent FISA requests, is still there (http://observer.guardian.co.uk/waronterrorism/story /0,,722426,00.html)

-Two Saudi officials, one suspected of being a Saudi intelligence agent, were in contact with two of the hijackers in California almost two years before 9/11.

-The SEC and FBI found no evidence that anyone benefitted financially from 9/11, but experts acknowledge that the use of encrypted trades, fiduciary agents, and multiple accounts makes it nearly impossible to determine whether anyone has benefitted from a disaster like 9/11.

(note) Just try and find out exactly who is invested in a given major oil company - you immediately enter a maze of front companies, mutual funds and banks who won't discuss their clientele without a court order. The traders who buy and sell oil are even more secretive.

- By January 2000, the CIA knew two bin Laden terrorists and future hijackers had entered the United States and taken up residence in California. The CIA failed to tell the FBI until August 2001... had the FBI arrested the two on material witness warrants - both men were involved in the attack on the U.S.S. Cole - 9/11 might never have happened.

(note) John O'Neill had been booted from the FBI by Aug 2001 - he was the principle investigator of the Cole bombings.

Ugly, ugly, ugly.

And what about after 9/11? That's when peddling fear to the public in order to get support for war became Bush & Co's primary goal.

We had anthrax attacks for a few months, during which time the Patriot Act was passed, signed and implemented. Then came the red-orange-yellow terror alert system, the falsified evidence for Iraqi WMDS, and a massive coordinated media push for an invasion of Iraq - and now noone seems interested in even mentioning the word "Afghanistan" or "Taliban" - even though the Taliban seem to be regaining power.

Afghanistan was just a setup for Iraq - now we're supposed to forget about it, as we did after the Soviets left.

The Iraq war had been in the planning stages ever since the neocons on the Project for a New American Century wrote their manifesto. That's confirmed by Cheney's Energy Task Force Meeting (complete with maps of Iraqi oilfields and lists of suitors). Now the four US-connected oil majors (XOM, CVX, BP, RDS) are vying for control of Iraqi oil, and Bush is refusing to leave Iraq because he'd have to take the oil companies out as well if that happened.

Ugly, ugly, ugly.

So, how would a 9/11 Truthiness member respond to all this information? Let me guess: "But," they'd say, "I only want to talk about what happened on the day of 9/11 - and why do you keep denying that it was a controlled demolition? Plus, the Saudis had nothing to do with it! You must be a left gatekeeper!". That's what you call a broken record/ skipping compact disc propaganda technique - repeat, repeat, repeat.

Um, Matt, what about the bombs found INSIDE the Murrah building?
Posted by: gretavo on Oct 25, 2006 3:47 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMXMo3Z0qms&eurl=

Anyone who wants to see exactly how 9/11 and the OKCity bombing are related just needs to spend 5 minutes watching the local news reports from the day of the bombing in Oklahoma City linked to above.

It will not only shock a few people to know that sophisticated devices were found inside the building (i.e. not fertilizer truck bombs) but it will prove what many people take issue with in regard to 9/11 Truth--how could we have fallen for such a massive lie, with no one exposing it before now? Despite the efforts of people like retired general Benton Partin, an OKCity Truth activist, most people have no idea that the destruction of the Murrah building was the work of professionals, not a lone right wing crazy.

So Matt, I challenge you to explain this, and why you failed to mention it in your comparison. If Americans need any more proof that there is a vast conspiracy by certain media personalities to impose on us a false version of our own history, then we are indeed a troubled nation.

» clarification Posted by: gretavo
» Truth Deniers Posted by: rwa
one anti-conspiracy story is plenty
Posted by: profmarcus on Oct 25, 2006 4:17 AM   
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matt, i'm afraid i agree with the individual in the earlier comment who accused you of being obsessed... i would suggest that, in a time when all news can be regarded as either spin or outright propaganda, you take a chill pill and adopt a more zen-like mindset - "i believe everything and i believe nothing..." the deeper you dig yourself into a position, the harder it is to absorb new and, possibly, conflicting information when it comes along... i've learned over the years to begin running rapidly in the opposite direction from anyone carrying a banner, no matter whether it says "there WAS a conspiracy" or "there was NO conspiracy..." your banner-waving on this one has eroded the credibility i had previously granted you... untwist your knickers and move on...

And, yes, I DO take it personally

truth
Posted by: rsaxto on Oct 25, 2006 4:57 AM   
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If the Bushies would tell us the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth about 9/11 it would end all this speculation. They haven't and they won't because it would mean numerous Bushies in the slammer. If the Congress would impeach the Bushies it would also result in numerous Bushies in the slammer. The Congress won't impeach because it would result in numerous Congress members in the slammer as many of them are involved, also. This is a really big story about really big crimes and we can't get the truth because America is run by lying criminals. IMPEACH ALL THE LIERS.

truth
Posted by: rsaxto on Oct 25, 2006 4:57 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If the Bushies would tell us the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth about 9/11 it would end all this speculation. They haven't and they won't because it would mean numerous Bushies in the slammer. If the Congress would impeach the Bushies it would also result in numerous Bushies in the slammer. The Congress won't impeach because it would result in numerous Congress members in the slammer as many of them are involved, also. This is a really big story about really big crimes and we can't get the truth because America is run by lying criminals. IMPEACH ALL THE LIERS.

truth
Posted by: rsaxto on Oct 25, 2006 5:04 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If the Bushies would tell us the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth about 9/11 it would end all this speculation. They haven't and they won't because it would mean numerous Bushies in the slammer. If the Congress would impeach the Bushies it would also result in numerous Bushies in the slammer. The Congress won't impeach because it would result in numerous Congress members in the slammer as many of them are involved, also. This is a really big story about really big crimes and we can't get the truth because America is run by lying criminals. IMPEACH ALL THE LIARS.

» RE: Covering Up Some "9/11 Truth" Is Not Among Bush's Many Crimes Posted by: Robert_Hoogenboom@leftfoot.com.au
» RE: And the problem with you Americans is ... Posted by: Robert_Hoogenboom@leftfoot.com.au
so have the Israelis apologized for the spying?
Posted by: gretavo on Oct 25, 2006 7:23 AM   
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Nope, they just keep on denying, lying, and probably still spying. I would prefer not to have my country associate with the Saudi dictatorship (or the Kuwaiti one for that matter) so no arguments there. As far as Saudi involvement in 9/11