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Iraq: 'The Greatest Strategic Disaster in American History'

By Patrick Cockburn, AlterNet. Posted October 31, 2006.


The U.S. failure in Iraq has been even more damaging than Vietnam because the opponent was punier and the imperial ambitions even greater.
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The following is an excerpt from Patrick Cockburn's new book, The Occupation: War and Resistance in Iraq (Verso, 2006).

It has been the strangest war. It had hardly begun in 2003 when President George W. Bush announced on May 1 that it was over: the American mission had been accomplished. Months passed before Washington and London realized that the conflict had not finished. In fact, the war was only just beginning. Three years after Bush had spoken the US military had suffered 20,000 dead and injured in Iraq, 95% of the casualties inflicted after the fall of Baghdad.

Almost without thinking, the US put to the test its claim to be the only superpower in the world. It spurned allies inside and outside Iraq; in invading Iraq Tony Blair was Bush's only significant supporter. The first President George Bush led a vast UN-backed coalition to complete victory in the Gulf War in 1991 largely because he fought a conservative war to return the Middle East to the way it was before Iraq's invasion of Kuwait. It was a status quo with which the world was familiar, and restoring was therefore supported internationally -- and in the Middle East. The war launched by his son, George W. Bush, twelve years later in 2003 was a far more radical venture. It was nothing less than an attempt to alter the balance of power in the world. The US, acting almost alone, would seize control of a country with vast oil reserves. It would assume quasi-colonial control over a nation which fifteen years previously had been the greatest Arab power. Senior American officials openly threatened to change the governments of states neighboring Iraq.

The debate on why the US invaded Iraq has been over-sophisticated. The main motive for going to war was that the White House thought it could win such a conflict very easily and to its own great advantage. They were heady times in Washington in 2002, as the final decisions were being taken to invade Iraq. It was the high tide of imperial self-confidence. The US had just achieved a swift victory in Afghanistan. The Taliban forces had evaporated after a few weeks of bombing by B-52s and the withdrawal of Pakistani support. Their strongholds in Kabul and Kandahar fell with scarcely a shot fired. To Tony Blair, believing that the US was about to fight another short and victorious war, support for Bush must have looked like a safe bet.

There was no reason why Saddam Hussein should not be defeated with the same ease as the Taliban. His army was a rabble, his heavier weapons, such as tanks and artillery, obsolete and ill-maintained. Iraq was exhausted by its eight-year war with Iran between 1980 and 1988, the humiliating defeat in Kuwait three years later and the thirteen long years of UN sanctions. If Bush and Blair had truly believed the Iraqi leader possessed the military strength sufficient to pose a threat to the Middle East through weapons of mass destruction, they probably would not have attacked him.

They were right to suspect he could not put up much of a fight. A few years earlier I had watched a military parade in Baghdad from a distance. A well-disciplined column of elite infantry marched past Saddam, standing on a raised platform near the Triumphal Arch made of crossed swords that commemorated the victory over Iran. All the soldiers appeared to be wearing smart white gloves. Only when I got closer did I realize that the Iraqi army was short of gloves, as it was of so many other types of equipment, and that the soldiers were wearing white sports socks on their hands.

Few governments can resist the temptation to fight and win a war that will boost their standing at home. It enables them to stand tall as defenders of the homeland. Domestic political opponents can be portrayed as traitors or lacking patriotism. The Bush administration had been particularly successful in wrapping the flag around itself after September 11 and later during the war in Afghanistan. It intended to do the same thing in Iraq in the run-up to the 2004 presidential election.

It was evident to very few in the US or the rest of the world that Bush was engaged in an extraordinary gamble. Even opponents of the war mostly cited moral objections to the invasion. For supporters of the attack on Iraq this was the moment that the US would lay the ghosts of Vietnam and Somalia. But history is full of examples of wars launched by great powers against weaker opponents in the mistaken expectation of an easy victory. The Duke of Wellington, warning hawkish politicians in Britain against ill-considered military intervention abroad, once said: "Great nations do not have small wars." He meant that such supposedly insignificant conflicts can inflict terrible damage on powerful states. Having seen what a small war in Spain had done to Napoleon, he knew what he was talking about.

The US failure in Iraq has been even more damaging than Vietnam because the opponent was punier and the original ambitions were greater. The belief that the US could act alone, almost without allies, was quickly shown to be wholly false. By the summer of 2004 the US military had only islands of control. The failure was all the worse because it was self-inflicted, like the British invasion of Egypt to overthrow Nasser in 1956. But by the time of the Suez crisis the British empire was already on its deathbed. The disaster only represented a final nail in its coffin. Perhaps the better analogy is the Boer War, at the height of the British imperial power, when the inability of its forces to defeat a few thousand Boer farmers damagingly exposed both Britain's real lack of military strength and its diplomatic isolation.


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Patrick Cockburn is a reporter for the The Independent and is author of, most recently, The Occupation: War and Resistance in Iraq (Verso, 2006).

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Fractured Iraq
Posted by: Tom Degan on Oct 31, 2006 12:48 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That Iraq is the greatest strategic blunder in American history, there can be no doubt. Or here's another way of looking at it: it is the stupidest, most disastrous mistake since another twisted sociopath, Adolf Hitler, invaded the Soviet Union sixty-four years ago. In March of 2003 it was obvious to any thinking person that, unlike Viet Nam, which gradually evolved into a quagmire, we were jumping into this quagmire head first and smiling.

Here is a fact that very few of us have yet to acknowledge: the war in Iraq is lost. Over half a million men, women and little children have died in vain. over twenty-eight hundred American service men and women are dead for no reason. Count on it: the day will come when the United States of America retreats in utter, humiliating disgrace from Iraq. The question is, do we do it now while the American death rate is at a relatively paltry number or, as in the case of Viet Nam, do we stupidly wait until it's at the sixty-thousand mark? Forget about fixing the country. It's gone forever. It's been irreparably broken and George W. Bush broke it

Think about that for a minute or two. For the second time in a generation, America is going to lose a war thanks to the stupidity of another half witted Texan. (To quote the great Molly Ivins, "Just what is it about Texas?) But that's not all! It gets better! This idiot will be remembered as the only president in American history to lose two wars simultainiously! I mean, just how ridiculous is that?? In case you've forgotten, the war in Afghanastan is also down the toilet. He's lost that one as well.

In a way, this kind of makes me happy in a weird sort of way. Maybe after this nightmare of an administration is over we will have lost our taste for war. Maybe we will all finally get fed up with the fact that we've wasted trillions of dollars on the military industrial complex - money that might have gone into this country's infrastructure.

Could there really be a silver lining behind this dark and nasty cloud? Time will tell, my friends.

Pray for peace.

Tom Degan
Goshen, NY
"The Rant" by Tom Degan

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» Correct Link for "the Rant" Posted by: Tom Degan
» RE: Correct Link for "the Rant" Posted by: techphile
» 2007 Year of Peace? Posted by: edith
» RE: 2007 Year of Peace? Posted by: rsaxto
» RE: 2007 Year of Peace? Posted by: HeroesAll
» RE: 2007 Year of Peace? Posted by: Pirate1
» RE: Fractured Iraq Posted by: thinkverybig
» RE: Fractured Iraq Posted by: Tom Degan
» Fractured America Posted by: AdamG
» RE: Fractured Iraq Posted by: willymack
» RE: Fractured Iraq Posted by: Tom Degan
» RE: Fractured Iraq Posted by: techphile
» RE: Fractured Iraq Posted by: willymack
» Creative Destruction Posted by: CatDad
» RE: Fractured Iraq Posted by: mountainmama
» RE: Fractured Iraq Posted by: Jayzer
» RE: Fractured Iraq Posted by: Tom Degan
errors
Posted by: rsaxto on Oct 31, 2006 1:05 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
These war errors of the Bushies when added to thier numerous policy and propaganda errors in the last six years add up to a giant bullshit glob of global incompetance. Their "empire" is collapsing by the weight of its dimwit flailings of arrogance. Vote against them and put them out of their misbegotten warmongering misery including the fellow travelor misery created by Lieberman.

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» An obvious counter-example: Posted by: stormchilde1975
The Neocons are fully committed to their strategy
Posted by: LeftWright on Oct 31, 2006 3:31 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They see this as a "winner take all" game, thus they will not give up their PNAC dreams. Expect more from them very soon.

If you only read one book this fall, read:

9/11: Synthetic Terror Made in USA by Webster G. Tarpley

There is a very good analysis of neocon philosophy and G.W. Bush psychology in it, among other things.

The truth shall set us free. Love is the only way forward.

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It takes competence to be a fascist
Posted by: citizenjoe on Oct 31, 2006 5:06 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Fascism came to Italy and to Germany because Mussolini and Hitler were the only ones with programs on which effective government could be based. Their policy was imperial aggression, conquest and dictatorship. Bush's fascist policies of world dominion are based on America's economic and military superiority, on opportunity. Mussolini had illusory victories in North Africa, much like Bush's illusory victory in Afghanistan. Hitler had real victories- he subjugated nearly all of Europe. When the axis over-reached into the USSR, their future was sealed, collapse. Fascism is supremacism. It must succeed at war and conquest. As Cockburn realizes, the USA under Bush has failed at both. This tin-horn supremacist makes a very poor showing in the Pantheon of Fascism. With more power than Hitler could have dreamed of, all Bush has done is conquer Haiti. Pitiful and disgusting.Don't think for a moment that Russia, China and Europe do not understand what Patrick Cockburn is telling them. Do you?

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» RE: It takes competence to be a fascist Posted by: Rod from Canada
Iraq is not the only casualty
Posted by: Democritus on Oct 31, 2006 5:10 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yes, Iraq is broken--perhaps never to be fixed, and certainly not by us. But there is more to it than suffering nearly 3,000 of our military dead and many more thousands grievously wounded in body and mind, more to it than having needlessly caused the deaths of perhaps a half-million Iraqis, more to it than having created hatred of the United States throughout the world. What is more important is how invading Iraq has changed us as a nation. In its desperate frenzy to hang onto political power by advertising its ongoing war on terror in the face of military setbacks, the Bush administration recently pushed the Military Commissions Act of 2006 through a compliant congress. This new law gives our president the power to detain people indefinitely, remove protections against physical abuse, use hearsay to put people in jail, authorize the death penalty on evidence obtained through torture, and suspend our venerable right to habeas corpus. In short, this law inflicts the most serious wound on our civil liberties since the Alien and Sedition Acts of 1798. So the gravest injury caused by our invasion of Iraq has really been to our own Constitutional principles. On November 7 we have an opportunity to vote for our values and repudiate this sellout to executive wealth and power. We can do this by refusing to cast our ballots for those in either political party who supported this iniquitous Act.

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» fred c dobbs sez: Posted by: gltirebiter
But who will take us out of there...?
Posted by: mjabele on Oct 31, 2006 5:12 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
At this point I think even most of the general public agrees that we are losing this war. It seems unlikely that Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld will take the necessary steps to exit from this debacle regardless of this November's election results, however. Even more disturbing to me, though, is my perception that the majority of Democrats have no definite plan to withdraw either - witness Hillary's position, among others. Third party candidates - and I plan to vote for one - may offer more definite plans for an early exit, but I think it's unlikely they'll reap enough votes to strongly influence policy.

I wonder whether the only way our leaders will listen to us is if we take to the streets, a la the Vietnam protest era. 1968 = 2007?

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If the Republican party is so very incompetent...
Posted by: douglashoyt on Oct 31, 2006 6:29 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why does it still win USA elections?

These hirerlings of the business class (Republicans) are not incompetent. They understand that lies, fear, violence and poverty are necessary to control the dolts in this country and Iraq.

How else can they control?

If Iraq became a functioning democracy, like Mr. Bush professes he wants, the USA would be told to leave immediately. Iraq is controlled by the "divid and control" method of government.

If the USA had fair and free elections, like Mr. Bush professes he desires, we would not have a Republican or Democrat party in Congress or the White House. Neither of those two parties, upon close examination, have the interests of the citizen of this nation.

Lies, fear, proverty and violence have and continue to serve the ruling elite very well, here and around the world.

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» There is a vast difference... Posted by: stormchilde1975
This has fascinating repurcusions
Posted by: Bobsays on Oct 31, 2006 6:46 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If this is true that it is such a disaster, what does it say for the British Labour Party and Tony Blair? What does it say for his attempts to export progressive international engagement? Is it all a sham, or just deeply deluded?

As this unravels and implodes, the mess is going to get worse. I think if the dot com boom/bust and the first years of the 'war on terror' felt like the turbulent 1960s, I think our 1970s moment is around the corner: profound disillusionment and distrust, energy crisis, economic collapse or stagflation, and no interest in further international engagements (Darfur etc.).

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Lose lose situation
Posted by: tashi on Oct 31, 2006 7:17 AM   
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I used to debated with my rich Republican co-workers back in 2004 contending that Iraq war was a lose-lose situation. The chaos brought about by the invasion will make the world more dangerous. And the defeat of US in Iraq would bring about the demise of the American Empire.
Recently I had a chance to get together with these Republican friends, and to my total disgust, they are still convinced that its only the media & the cut-run democrats that are making US lose the war in 'Eye-Rak'.
With such clueless citizenry, US has no chance of recovery.

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I dont know, the bar has been set pretty high
Posted by: Iconoclast421 on Oct 31, 2006 7:18 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Iraq sure is a mess. But to think that it is our biggest strategic failure.... come on.

We've done worse.

Wall Street supported the Nazi regime all throughout Hitler's rise to power. That wasn't a "military strategy" per se, it was a business strategy. (A sound one actually. In purely fiscal terms.) One could argue that I cant lump failed business strategies in with failed military strategies. But I disagree, because our military is under the control of big business. This has been proven over and over again, this time with N Korea. We dont invade them cause there's no big business interests in the region. Hey, if they want to run our country, then they damn well should take the heat when something goes wrong!

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» Hahaha, good answer. Posted by: Prophit
All politicians, all lies all the time
Posted by: jreinhart1 on Oct 31, 2006 7:27 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
None of them looked into 9/11. None of them looked into the facts for going to war. All of them still finance the wars based on lies. None of them are telling the truth on the real state of the American white and blue collar classes. None of them blocked the RealID Cct, Military Commissions Act as well as the Patriot Act. Most Americans probably haven't written their representatives either. Since the US is headed into a totalitarian state from an authoritarian state, the neocons are the fastest way their. The neolibs will follow them pretending to be the party of opposition as they have for the last 6 years.

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Yes, but
Posted by: AdamSelene40 on Oct 31, 2006 7:30 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
1) Keeping our families SAFE
2) Fighting the war on TERROR
3) Supporting our brave BOYS AND GIRLS IN UNIFORM ...

It's what voters want ... it's what they understand.

That and :
4) "We're in it ... let's WIN it!"

It's not as if any of our Electable Democrats have or ever will challenge any of these 4 points directly. They will hint, suggest and imply ... even assert ... that Democrats will protect, fight,support and win, smarter cheaper better and MORE than Republicans. In some races, our leaders have even picked candidates who run on the platform of being "better CONSERVATIVES" as well as better war fighters than their Republican opponents.

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» Don't blame the voters Posted by: SteveB
Beelzeboob Bush
Posted by: monkeywrench on Oct 31, 2006 7:51 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Iraq: 'The Greatest Strategic Disaster in American History' "?

Oh, that's not thinking large enough. Some historians have gone all the way back to the Battle in the Teutoberg Forest in 9 AD, where three Roman Legions were annihilated by Germania, to find a parallel. Thus, the Iraq debacle may rise in status to become the greatest strategic disaster in ALL of christian history.

The disaster in Iraq may, in fact, be worse, because, as the article mentioned, Iraq was puny and we possessed the most powerful military the world had ever seen, certainly creating a more lopsided conflict than in Germania – and yet we are failing in Iraq, after carrying out an illegal invasion in the first place. The fact that we invaded Iraq PRECISELY BECAUSE it had no WMD's only makes the immorality of the Big Lie that much worse – and the rest of he world knows it. Murtha was right when he said that the future of America may hang on the outcome in Iraq; great superpowers have farther to fall, and thus farther to climb to recover – IF they recover.

President Bush "almost without thinking" – correction: without thinking AT ALL – has threatened America and its democracy with extinction. He had help, of course: Congress and a complicit (or cowardly) media have done their part as well. But it was his administration that pushed us over the cliff and now has no clue as to how to cushion the impact (remember, it's not the fall that hurts; it's that sudden catastrophe at the end...).

President Bush wanted his legacy, and now he has it: the most ignorant, amoral, self-impressed, imperialistic – and blundering – president in american history. A sort of "Beelzeboob For the Ages."

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» RE: Beelzeboob Bush Posted by: willymack
» RE: Beelzeboob Bush Posted by: Melvin
To put things in perspective...
Posted by: rockpicker on Oct 31, 2006 8:15 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
may I suggest googling Aaron Russo's film, America, Freedom To Fascism. It's free, and also available on dvd now. Also, Alex Jones' movie TerrorStorm, and lastly, check out The New Totalitarianism, by Dr. Norman D. Livergood, at >http://www.hermes-press.com/barbaric_annihilation.htm<

Livergood explains how the disaster of Iraq has been a ringing success, from the stand point of the global elites, since furthering US business interests was the goal all along. Civil war was part of the plan, and that has to be seen as a major success. A permanent foothold has been established, with 14 large bases under construction, so that's another achievment tallied.

9/11, Afghanistan, Iraq, Lebanon, Syria and Iran must be seen as stepping stones in the cabal's plan of global conquest. In this country, the twin towers, the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, were always the REAL targets, and they've been all but taken out.

Expect the unexpected. Refuse to be rfid chipped. Prepare yourselves for the long war.

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perhaps I'm naive
Posted by: kww355 on Oct 31, 2006 8:38 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Can someone honestly tell me why we just can't leave Iraq ? There's already a civil war going on, and at least it wouldn't be Americans that are killing and being killed. I think the average Iraqi would rather we left them to their own devices about restoring the infrastructure-just so we get out of their country.

I'd really like someone to tell me why we can't give them some reparation money ( there could never be enough ) and "take our toys and go home". Now. No phased withdrawal. No "over the horizon". We did it in Vietnam-why not now?

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» RE: perhaps I'm naive Posted by: badkitty
» thanks,badkitty Posted by: kww355
» RE: perhaps I'm naive Posted by: putman9
» Very well said, putman9 ! Posted by: LeftWright
» putman9 Posted by: kww355
» RE: perhaps I'm naive Posted by: edith
Reality Bites
Posted by: rwa on Oct 31, 2006 9:15 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
According to an October 2004 Dispatch from the Italian Military Health Observatory, a total of 109 Italian soldiers have died thus far due to exposure to depleted uranium. A spokesman at the Military Health Observatory, Domenico Leggiero, states "The total of 109 casualties exceeds the total number of persons dying as a consequence of road accidents. Anyone denying the significance of such data is purely acting out of ill faith, and the truth is that our soldiers are dying out there due to a lack of adequate protection against depleted uranium". Members of the Observatory have petitioned for an urgent hearing "in order to study effective prevention and safeguard measures aimed at reducing the death-toll amongst our serving soldiers".

There were only 3,000 Italian soldiers sent to Iraq, and they were there for a short time. The number of 109 represents about 3.6% of the total. If the same percentage of Iraqis get a similar exposure, that would amount to 936,000. As Iraqis are permanently living in the same contaminated environment, their percentage will be higher. When extrapolated to the 140,000 US soldiers currently in Iraq much longer than the Italian soldiers, 3.6% represents over 5000 soldiers dead, but unreported. When rotation is taken into account, over 500,000 US soldiers have served in Iraq, representing some 18,000 likely deaths...


http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article12903.htm

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and to think the lies of 911 started it all
Posted by: kellysgarden on Oct 31, 2006 10:15 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And just how did this failure come about? The faked 9/11 attacks, used as a pretext. 9/11 was an inside job.

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» Bah. Posted by: stormchilde1975
And what then?
Posted by: Rathan47 on Oct 31, 2006 10:16 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So, imagine if the US does pull out...what then? Who fills the void they leave behind? With an unstable government, almost no police/military, Iraq would descend into total chaos and anarchy until some power managed to take hold. And how ripe would the oil infrastructure of Iraq be to neighboring countries? No, the US will never leave, not while they have their hands in the cookie jar. They need a strong military prescence there to stablize the oil production over the coming decades. The permanent military bases they've established there tell the full tale.

No, they've made their bed, and no matter what happens in the coming mid-term US elections, the US is in Iraq for the long haul. The Democrats may not be as corrupt as the Republicans when it comes to $$$, but they aren't stupid either.

The only recourse I see is if there is a change in the Presidency in 2008, or some miraculous shift in the operations of Congress over the next two years. The US won't be able to pull out, but they need to shift over to a multi-national UN lead reconstruction program, funded by the US (Laugh! Like that will happen!). In truth, the Iraqi oil reserves could more than pay for the reconstruction if they weren't being siphoned off by the greedy oil baron's who manipulate the US Administration.

I suspect that's the way this will play out in the end, with the UN taking control of the major reconstruction effort while the US maintains a huge presence in the region to shore up their oil interests. That won't happen until the Hawks in Washington realize that they can't win alone and that their Utopian vision of Iraq will never come about. That will likely come with a change in the Presidency, which I think is going to be a forgone conclusion in 2008.

The new Prez will use the public support that got him/her into office, make a wonderful speech about needing multilateral, multinational support in rebuilding Iraq, and will come off smelling like a rose and having great numbers in the opinion polls. Heck, even if the new Prez is a Republican (which I doubt), I think it will still go down the same way.

And in the end, things stay the same, life takes decades to get better in Iraq, the US has a foothold in the Middle East, with enough military might to keep a hand on the throat of Iran if need be (when oil demands get high enough for the need for further regime change, and also to appease Isreali interested in limiting Arabic state power in the region). The pipeline in Afghanistan flows wonderfully, the oil in Iraq is pumping, and the US gets where it needs to go, for now...

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» RE: And what then? Posted by: kellysgarden
» Good Points Posted by: Rathan47
The Great American Echo Chamber . . .
Posted by: MAD on Oct 31, 2006 10:21 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Welcome to Alternet - America's 10th or 11th favorite place to explore exactly 3 issues:

1. Bush is evil.
2. The war is a failure.
3. Republicans are actually - gasp - immoral.

While you pick yourselves up off the ground (the magnitude of these revelations surely flooring you) the 5th largest country in the world just re-elected a controversial leftist president and the 7th largest country is reverting back to a dictatorship. Coincidentally, that same country controls much of Europe's gas supplies and has a dramatically declining birthrate which might be of interest to the largest country in the world which is growing and surely seeking leibensraum. Well enough about those silly stories and back to Alternet's regularly scheduled claptrap "Bush: is he even human?"

BTW - the 8th largest country is coming apart at the seams.

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» -------- Posted by: decembrist
» RE: -------- Posted by: MAD
» RE: -------- Posted by: babs
» RE: -------- Posted by: MAD
» ~~~~~~~~ Posted by: decembrist
» Bah. Posted by: stormchilde1975
War for "civilization itself"
Posted by: kackermann on Oct 31, 2006 11:21 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That one said it all for me. Bush sent 150,000 soldiers to fight The War for Civilization Itself.

I'll forgive hyperbole from small children and sportscasters but from a president at war?

Treating us like idiots makes him seem even more so the idiot. To make things worse he has waged his war on terrorism primarily here at home. He expects us to swallow the Patriot Act, domestic spying, and the Military Commissions Act because HE says it is good for us.

I've asked a lot of people if they happen to know Osama Bin Laden or anyone from his family and nobody does. The only person I've even heard of that has a relationship with the family is George Bush.

Given that and the fact that he has not signed one law that could be said to benefit We The People, and in fact used his only veto to block something tha holds the promise of curing many diseases then I'd say we have an enemy in the camp.

Talk about the ulimate terrorist.

We may not be able to do anything about Iraq but we do owe their people a fair trial. This war should be investigated and if wrongly initiated then those who prosecuted the war should be served up as an example of justice and as a warning to others who may want to venture down the same path in the future.

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It is Important to Get Out....
Posted by: decembrist on Oct 31, 2006 11:39 AM   
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....somehow or another.

Just as important, if not more, is that we, as citizens of the US, make sure that the arrogance that allowed the invasion of Iraq never occur again.

Yes, the war has been bungled. Costly mistakes have been made. However, the original mistake was invading in the first place.

Next, we must begin to rebuild our relationship (our relationship, not our "image" - this is not empty fucking P.R.) with Muslims all over the world. Only when Muslims and Arabs trust us will terrorism begin to wane.

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» Well said Posted by: HeroesAll
Beyond Body Counts
Posted by: hbw on Oct 31, 2006 12:11 PM   
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Sorry in advance for my verbosity, folks. I hope you'll at least find my point under all the words.

Cockburn's analysis presented here in short form isn't very illuminating, despite the fact that we in the lefty echo chamber "know" he's right.

But something Tom Degan said got my wheels turning. Specifically, the remark about half a million dead Iraqis. While the number is quite likely to be true, given the methodology of the Johns Hopkins study, I don't think it serves us well to focus on body counts.

Which do you believe, and which is the most reliable number: the Johns Hopkins 600,000 based on sampling home visits, the 100,000 from that other study, the conservative estimate of 40,000 based on media reports at iraqbodycount.org, or the estimates of the U.S. or Iraqi government? In the end, does it matter?

What does it say about the U.S. in general when you look at the number of Iraqis who perished as a direct result of economic sanctions during the Clinton years, estimated at more than a million, half of them small children? Clinton could have pushed for removal of the sanctions, except that the Republicans would have bitched about it and called him soft. Is the Bush regime's treatment of Iraq that much worse?

Don't forget the death toll of U.S. troops. We take the number 2,800 for granted, give or take. That does not even include those who have died of their wounds or killed themselves after removal from the theater of operations. Take those into account, an