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Government Death Squads Ravaging Baghdad
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The death toll is high -- in all 1,536 bodies were brought to the Baghdad morgue in September. The health ministry announced last month that it will build two new morgues in Baghdad to take their capacity to 250 bodies a day.
Many fear a government hand in more killings to come. The U.S. military has revealed that the 8th Iraqi Police Unit was responsible for the Oct. 1 kidnapping of 26 Sunni food factory workers in the Amil quarter in southwest Baghdad. The bodies of ten of them were later found in Abu Chir neighbourhood in the capital.
Minister for the Interior Jawad al-Bolani announced he is suspending the police unit from official duties, and confining it to base until an investigation is completed.
But sections of the ministry appear responsible for the abductions and killing. Ministry of Interior vehicles were used for the kidnapping in this case, and most men conducting the raid wore Iraqi police uniforms, except for a few who wore black death squad 'uniforms', witnesses said.
The leader of the police unit is under house arrest and faces interrogation for this and other crimes, according to an official announcement.
"It is for sure that they did it," one of the victim's neighbours said on condition of anonymity. "The tortured bodies were found the second day. They came in their official police cars; it is not the first time that they did something like this. They do it all over Baghdad, and we hope they will get proper punishment this time."
Men of the police unit meanwhile do not face imminent punishment. "They are going to be rehabilitated and brought back to service," director-general of the Iraqi police Adnan Thabit said.
The Iraqi Islamic Party, the largest Sunni party, blamed militias with ties to the government and the U.S. military.
"The Iraqi Islamic Party asks how could 26 people, women among them, have been transported from Amil to Abu Chir through all those Iraqi and U.S. army checkpoints and patrols," it said in a statement.
The U.S. military has denied any involvement in the killings.
General Yassin al-Dulaimi, deputy minister for the interior, has said on Iraqi television several times that death squads are composed mainly of Iraqi police and army units. His comments reflect differing allegiance and agendas even within the Shia bloc.
General Dulaimi has been trying for long to expose the organised criminal gangs that have been controlling the ministry since its formation -- a formation that was overseen by U.S. authorities.
Dulaimi says he does not believe that the Shia Badr organisation, a large, well-armed and funded militia, has complete control over his ministry. But most residents of Baghdad believe that Badr has complete control over the Baghdad Order Maintenance police force, and use this force to carry out sectarian murders. This force is one of several official security teams in Baghdad.
The force is led by Mehdi al-Gharrawi, who also led similar security units during the U.S.- led attack on Fallujah in November 2004.
"All criminals who survived the Fallujah crisis after committing genocide and other war crimes were granted higher ranks," Major Amir Jassim from the ministry of defence said. "I and many of my colleagues were not rewarded because we disobeyed orders to set fire to people's houses (in Fallujah) after others looted them."
Jassim said the looting and burning of homes in Fallujah during the November siege was ordered from the ministries of interior and defence.
"Now they want to do the same things they did in Fallujah in all Sunni areas so that they ignite a civil war in Iraq," said Jassim, referring to the Shia-dominated ministries. "A civil war is the only guarantee for them to stay in power, looting such incredible amounts of money."
Another official with the ministry of defence, Muntather al-Samarraii, said that both Iran and "collaborators" within the Ministry of Interior are to blame for the widespread sectarian killings.
"I have lists of thousands of corruption cases from within my ministry, and other files to expose to the world," he said, "But the world is not listening. When it does, I am afraid it is going to be too late."
A police officer in Samarraii's office, speaking on condition of anonymity, said that he believed that murderers would not be punished for their crimes.
"They will reward them, believe me, and give them higher ranks," he said. "This is a country that will never stand back on its feet as long as these killers are in power. And the Americans are supporting them by allowing their convoys to move during curfew hours."
While there is little evidence of direct U.S. involvement, questions have arisen over what the U.S. forces have done -- or not done -- to encourage such killings.
A UN human rights report released September last year held interior ministry forces responsible for an organised campaign of detentions, torture and killings. It reported that special police commando units accused of carrying out the killings were recruited from Shia Badr and Mehdi militias, and trained by U.S. forces.
Retired Col. James Steele, who served as advisor on Iraqi security forces to then U.S. Ambassador John Negroponte supervised the training of these forces.
Steele was commander of the U.S. military advisor group in El Salvador 1984-86, while Negroponte was U.S. ambassador to nearby Honduras 1981-85. Negroponte was accused of widespread human rights violations by the Honduras Commission on Human Rights in 1994. The Commission reported the torture and disappearance of at least 184 political workers.
The violations Negroponte oversaw in Honduras were carried out by operatives trained by the CIA, according to a CIA working group set up in 1996 to look into the U.S. role in Honduras.
The CIA records document that his "special intelligence units," better known as "death squads," comprised CIA-trained Honduran armed units which kidnapped, tortured and killed thousands of people suspected of supporting leftist guerrillas.
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Posted by: gellero on Oct 23, 2006 12:30 AM
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What do we do to make the situation better?? Please don't ruminate on the past or cast blame........what do we do now? Will a change in our administration make any difference? Why?
And please, no anti Bushie/Rummy posts. We've heard all the rants already. I want to see if there are and Brainiacs out there with some real foreign policy ideas.
Oh....and Mr. Hemp poster.......the solution is not to just sit down in a drum circle and do a doob together. Might work for us, but not them...........
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» Let's play a game ...
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Let's play a game ... I'll try
Posted by: thoughtcriminal
» RE: Let's play a game ... #9
Posted by: ScottP
» RE: The essence of the Iraq Problem
Posted by: symcokid
» RE: The essence of the Iraq Problem a La Generalissima MDruss
Posted by: mdruss42
» RE: The essence of the Iraq Problem a La Generalissima MDruss
Posted by: symcokid
» RE: The essence of the Iraq Problem a La Generalissima MDruss
Posted by: yellow
» Beware of Those Who Speak in Bold
Posted by: opeluboy
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Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Oct 23, 2006 12:31 AM
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"Journalist killed after investigating US-backed death squads in Iraq
By James Cogan 1 July 2005"
"....Over the past month, Salihee had been gathering evidence that US-backed Iraqi forces have been carrying out extra-judicial killings of alleged members and supporters of the anti-occupation resistance. His investigation followed a feature in the New York Times magazine in May, detailing how the US military had modeled the Iraqi interior ministry police commandos, known as the Wolf Brigade, on the death squads unleashed in the 1980s to crush the left-wing insurgency in El Salvador.
The Wolf Brigade was recruited by US operatives and the US-installed interim government headed by Iyad Allawi during 2004. A majority of its officers and personnel served in Saddam Hussein’s special forces and Republican Guard—veterans of killings, torture and repression. The unit has been used against the resistance in rebellious cities such as Mosul and Samarra, and, over the past six weeks, has played a prominent role in the massive crackdown ordered by the Iraqi government in Baghdad codenamed “Operation Lightning”.
Better yet, read the letter Rep. Dennis Kucinich sent to Donald H. Rumsfeld on May 04, 2006:
http://www.kucinich.us/ floor_speeches/iq_rumsfeld_letter4may.php
"...Mr. Secretary, at a news conference on January 11, 2005, you publicly stated that the idea of a Salvador option was "nonsense." Yet mounting evidence suggests that the U.S. has in fact funded and trained Iraqi assassination and kidnapping teams and these teams are now operating with horrific success across Iraq."
Didn't get much coverage on FOX-CNN-MSNBC-ABC-CBS, did it?
While one may wonder what the goal of these death squads is, other than terrifying the population into abject submission, it seems that a central goal is to divide Sunnis from Shias by the use of death threats delivered to various homes. The fact that Sunni and Shia religious clerics have been calling for reconciliation only helps affirm that this plan is being carried out on the orders of Rumsfeld's Pentagon - and remember that what Rumsfeld says has nothing to do with what Rumsfeld does.
Now would be a good time to call your reps and tell them what you think of the imminent bombing of Iran (and of the Rumsfeld-Negroponte-Steele death squads).
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Posted by: edith on Oct 23, 2006 12:54 AM
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What a mess.
Put reconstruction funds in escorw for a postwar authority to use and get out now!
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» RE: chaos
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: chaos
Posted by: Benjaminsjw
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Posted by: LeftWright on Oct 23, 2006 1:04 AM
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He set them up, got them started and moved on.
He's now our Director of National Intelligence.
Lucky us.
Knock knock
Who's there?
Blackwater........
Sleep well, America, you're in good hands now.
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» US Mercenary Groups + Insurgent Mujahideen = Death Squads
Posted by: jreinhart1
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Posted by: rsaxto on Oct 23, 2006 2:31 AM
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Posted by: JP2 on Oct 23, 2006 3:51 AM
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And about Iraq, someone here asked for suggestions to get out of the situation instead of rants. Shit, what suggestions do you expect?
OK, Do you want to know why the situation created by the US government right now is worse than Hitler's in Poland or France? Because at the time England and America and the Soviet Union where there to oppose their good intentions to the evil ones.
Now there are no nations or alliances in the world to oppose the big bully.
Our only hope is a big waking-up of the American people, and --following-- of the western people in general (the opposite just wouldn't work) : and I don't mean by voting some phony alternative in rigged elections: I mean by marching in the streets and actively opposing this government, even risking their lives and future.
Tien-an-men style, people, no less.
Sorry for those Americans who are reading this and feeling uncomfortable, but guys, this burden is on you now. Face your responsibilities. Turn off your TV screens and do something unpredictable for once.
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» RE: The Big brother CIA blog-screening program won't like the following comment
Posted by: kackermann
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Posted by: lively56 on Oct 23, 2006 4:22 AM
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» You can view it here right now.
Posted by: ItsTime
» I just watched it
Posted by: grim ripper
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Posted by: Monitor523 on Oct 23, 2006 6:00 AM
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The "Salvador Option" was brought up because the conventional thinking within the Pentagon and CIA is that the operations in El Salvador were a success, and the various tortures, rapes, brutal murders etc. carried out by local forces trained by the CIA and special forces were not part of the policy, but an "unfortunate" side effect due to providing the technical training and tools to people who don't have the same ethical stance as the US military. They think of it as a "lesser evil", and as a way of getting influence over the behavior of people who would be doing such things anyway, and cite the decline in the death rate in the later part of the El Salvador operation. (Which ignores the fact that, since it was successful, in the sense of suppressing threats to the US-approved government, there was less killing to do in the later parts).
Now, you may not find that convincing, but it seems to be the standard outlook within the Pentagon. Future projection of American power to defend various US/Western interests - political, business, or whatever - are liable to use the military for some time, regardless of which political party sets the big-picture policy objectives, because that's the kind of power America has. The use of the military will probably move away from the use of large-scale Army operations like the one in Iraq, regardless of which party wins the next few election cycles (maybe more gradually, maybe less, depending on just what happens). Which means more embedding of Green Berets and Marines within the forces of death-squad operating governments in areas of strategic interest to the US.
Baghdad is also a snapshot of the future of war because it's in an urban setting, and because the "two-side" model with clear rules of warfare is breaking down and being replaced by a multi-side conflict between groups identified by factional, ethnic, language, religious, and cultural identity. Because it illustrates the blurring of the line between civil policing and warfare as civil disorder gets bigger and warfare gets more "unconventionalized". We've seen other precursors in Chechnya, Mogadishu, etc.
And as much as the current US policy may exacerbate the problem, these trends are mainly driven by: growing poverty due to resource depletion, environmental degradation and overpopulation; rapid urbanization of the third world; a large state-backed arms industry; the continuing effects of the loss of a political frame for conflict such as provided by the Cold War.
All indications are we can expect to see more of the same in one or more of Nigeria, Sudan, Pakistan, and possibly others in coming years and decades. Possibly others if the Iraq model is applied to, say, Iran or Syria.
So my question is: regardless of who wins the US election (let's say it's the Democrats, and they miraculously become susceptible to demands to rein in the military-industrial complex... what, then, is the big story about what we do instead? The Big Idea for making the Earth secure and livable for its occupants? My guess is it won't be based on purely national policy or national interests. What, then?
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» RE: "Salvador Option"
Posted by: daw13
» Confirmation that military intelligence is a logical contradicton
Posted by: thoughtcriminal
» trivia
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: trivia
Posted by: Monitor523
» An idea
Posted by: daw13
» RE: An idea
Posted by: Monitor523
» Reality or Delusion Option
Posted by: Hal
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Posted by: symcokid on Oct 23, 2006 7:40 AM
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Posted by: edith on Oct 23, 2006 9:12 AM
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So it's Nigeria, Indoneisia, and Venezuela next?
Oh no. It's time to get out the old Vietnam walking boots.
Shut it down.
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» RE: this energy policy must end
Posted by: mdruss42
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Posted by: Burtonger on Oct 23, 2006 10:38 AM
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The NEW WORLD ORDER of business is winning, so far profits are way up for the new NAZIs.
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» By "American People" I assume you mean "33% of the American People"
Posted by: SteveB
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Posted by: willymack on Oct 23, 2006 11:55 AM
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» RE: Government death squads
Posted by: mdruss42
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Posted by: harinama on Oct 23, 2006 11:59 AM
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Get the Iraqi constitution rewritten to allow US corporate takeover.
Build the 1/2 dozen military bases as a staging ground for the rest of the middle east.
Install a puppet govt to do the bidding of the neocon fascists.
Finish the underground pipeline from Kuwait to steal much of Iraq's oil.
So..maybe they didnt get EVERYTHING they wanted by now, but they are close. The neocons have been supporting death squads all over the world since the early 70's in countries such as: Chile(Pinochet),Argentina, Columbia,Phillipines, Pakistan,Guatamala, El Salvador, Uzbekistan, Yugoslavia, Spain(Franco), Indonesia, Iran(Shah).etc AND IRAQ(under Sadaam and after).
It's amazing..the rest of the world knows what they are doing and their goals, namely control of the financial markets and resources of lesser developed countries. This new 21st century imperialism is the same as old, just coached in different terms.
The only real avenue is to GET THE FUCK OUT. Vietnam could never be won by as an occupying force, and never will Iraq (and soon to be Iran). We are only helping radical islamic leaders to get more recruits and gain more political standing(evidenced by the rise of Hamas and Hezbollah) by staying. Not only are we lessening the violence by staying, we are actually increasing it every day.
But maybe...just maybe The neoconfuckups want thsi. They want to create a new 21st century enemy to divert the attentions of the US populace away from their imperialist fascist agenda by creating an illusive(hence the lack of capture of the cia operative bin laden) enemy that grows to the size of the old soviet threat.
We are just pawns in this game. What do we do with criminals who subjugate our voting process, destroy our contitution and the rights it proposes to our citizens, and proceeds with illegal wars, killing innocent foreign civilians (at nearly 700k at this point) in our name?
This is treasonous activity that goes to the very core of our society. If we do not root out these demogogs, our country will be a shadow of it's former self with massive internal strife with the bane and hatred of the rest of the world on us for decades to come. Thus, the only way to deal with this is to arrest our illicit leaders(who gained power via a bloodless coup), and put them up for charges of warcrimes. While i do not generally believe in the death penalty because it preys on the poor and uneducated, i am for it in this case.
Get the troops completely out.
Trash the "recreated" Iraqi constitution,
Undo ALL of Bremer's 100 orders,
Remove the present puppet governement, and allow Iraqis to really vote in the parliament that they want with proportional representation, WITHOUT SPLITTING UP THE COUNTRY).
Give $50billion to independent iraq and worldwide agencies to put towards rebuilding the country HIRING IRAQIS TO DO IT.
Create a fund to compensate them for the next 20 years. It has to hurt, so put the figure at, say $500billion. It wont cover all of the pain and suffering we've caused, but it will allow them to rebuild their infrastructure, take control of their resources and build new lives in the ashes.
Allow a new coalition of Middle-East peace keepers to come in and work with the Iraqi forces to begin to quell the violence.
AMERICANS NEED TO FEEL THE PAIN OF THE IGNORANCE AND IDIOCY OF OUR CALLOUS AND IMPERIALIST CULTURE.
These are the paths to peace in Iraq. Sovereinty,Security, Stability, Freedom, Independence.
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» RE: devil really does wear prada
Posted by: mdruss42
» RE: devil really does wear prada
Posted by: symcokid
» Iraqis way ahead of you
Posted by: SteveB
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Posted by: harinama on Oct 23, 2006 4:00 PM
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In building a govt in Iraq it is imperative that all parties feel included in the process. Thus it will be necessary to bring together the different factions, especially those that are actively battling US forces presently, to state their desires for a future Iraq.
All to often the US acts as a hegemonic sanctimonious piece of shit, and doesnt respect the cultural and ideological views of other countries and their citizens. It is very possible that a stable Iraq may take a completely different approach than the corporatist fascist pseudo representative democracy that is being forced down their throat.
Iraq, at one time, was a shining star in the region with the most progressive culture, stable government, highest literacy, lowest infant mortality, highest regard for women, etc. The list goes on and on. The US installed and propped up Sadaam in the 80's to go against Iran. Sadaam acted like your typical mafia boss, namely forcing everyone to cowtow and getting pay backs. However, he did understand that you can't shake the boat (or the store owner up so to speak), or you cant milk the country for money. Thus, while he subjugated the people to his will, the basic infrastructure was still in place from Iraq's heyday.
What really has destroyed Iraq, was the first 2 months of the occupacy in which Bremer et all dismantled the military, the entire police force, rewrote the constitution, and implemented the evil 100 orders. Iraq now has become a UW corporatist enterprise, and WOW guess what? The Iraqi people are smart enough to see it and are rebelling. They are not approaching a civil war, THEY ARE IN A FREEDOM WAR, mostly against western control and subjugation.
This conflict is very likely to get even worse before it gets better, and it's up to each and everyone of us to push for getting out and reparations. The Iraqi's in the end will have to decide the kind of society they want to create post Sadaam and post US. We'll have to get out with our tail between our legs and leave all of our imperialist aspirations in the dumpster.
Again, lets just hope that someday we can act as a civilized member of the world community instead of what we are now. BUT IT'S A LONG ROAD AND WE HAVE TO START NOW!
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Posted by: sofla100 on Oct 23, 2006 6:52 PM
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Posted by: grim ripper on Oct 23, 2006 10:26 PM
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If you can watch freedom to fascism without jumping out of your chair.... then please, DO tell how you do it
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Posted by: werewolf on Oct 23, 2006 11:53 PM
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» RE: Sadaam is a Criminal Regardless of Whether His Successor is Bad Too
Posted by: werewolf
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Posted by: opeluboy on Oct 24, 2006 5:52 PM
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Posted by: Captainmagic on Oct 25, 2006 5:28 PM
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Rumsfeld doing a great job!!!!!!..JESUS!!!!...THEY are completely lost in their own spin...and just curious....what happens in Eighteen months...whats on the calendar in eighteen months time prey tell......and why eighteen months....why not this time next year.....Mmmmmm Iran maybe...Mmmmmm..puzzle?
Captain OUT
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Posted by: gellero on Oct 23, 2006 12:30 AM
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What do we do to make the situation better?? Please don't ruminate on the past or cast blame........what do we do now? Will a change in our administration make any difference? Why?
And please, no anti Bushie/Rummy posts. We've heard all the rants already. I want to see if there are and Brainiacs out there with some real foreign policy ideas.
Oh....and Mr. Hemp poster.......the solution is not to just sit down in a drum circle and do a doob together. Might work for us, but not them...........
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» Let's play a game ...
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Let's play a game ... I'll try
Posted by: thoughtcriminal
» RE: Let's play a game ... #9
Posted by: ScottP
» RE: The essence of the Iraq Problem
Posted by: symcokid
» RE: The essence of the Iraq Problem a La Generalissima MDruss
Posted by: mdruss42
» RE: The essence of the Iraq Problem a La Generalissima MDruss
Posted by: symcokid
» RE: The essence of the Iraq Problem a La Generalissima MDruss
Posted by: yellow
» Beware of Those Who Speak in Bold
Posted by: opeluboy
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Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Oct 23, 2006 12:31 AM
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"Journalist killed after investigating US-backed death squads in Iraq
By James Cogan 1 July 2005"
"....Over the past month, Salihee had been gathering evidence that US-backed Iraqi forces have been carrying out extra-judicial killings of alleged members and supporters of the anti-occupation resistance. His investigation followed a feature in the New York Times magazine in May, detailing how the US military had modeled the Iraqi interior ministry police commandos, known as the Wolf Brigade, on the death squads unleashed in the 1980s to crush the left-wing insurgency in El Salvador.
The Wolf Brigade was recruited by US operatives and the US-installed interim government headed by Iyad Allawi during 2004. A majority of its officers and personnel served in Saddam Hussein’s special forces and Republican Guard—veterans of killings, torture and repression. The unit has been used against the resistance in rebellious cities such as Mosul and Samarra, and, over the past six weeks, has played a prominent role in the massive crackdown ordered by the Iraqi government in Baghdad codenamed “Operation Lightning”.
Better yet, read the letter Rep. Dennis Kucinich sent to Donald H. Rumsfeld on May 04, 2006:
http://www.kucinich.us/ floor_speeches/iq_rumsfeld_letter4may.php
"...Mr. Secretary, at a news conference on January 11, 2005, you publicly stated that the idea of a Salvador option was "nonsense." Yet mounting evidence suggests that the U.S. has in fact funded and trained Iraqi assassination and kidnapping teams and these teams are now operating with horrific success across Iraq."
Didn't get much coverage on FOX-CNN-MSNBC-ABC-CBS, did it?
While one may wonder what the goal of these death squads is, other than terrifying the population into abject submission, it seems that a central goal is to divide Sunnis from Shias by the use of death threats delivered to various homes. The fact that Sunni and Shia religious clerics have been calling for reconciliation only helps affirm that this plan is being carried out on the orders of Rumsfeld's Pentagon - and remember that what Rumsfeld says has nothing to do with what Rumsfeld does.
Now would be a good time to call your reps and tell them what you think of the imminent bombing of Iran (and of the Rumsfeld-Negroponte-Steele death squads).
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Posted by: edith on Oct 23, 2006 12:54 AM
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What a mess.
Put reconstruction funds in escorw for a postwar authority to use and get out now!
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» RE: chaos
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: chaos
Posted by: Benjaminsjw
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Posted by: LeftWright on Oct 23, 2006 1:04 AM
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He set them up, got them started and moved on.
He's now our Director of National Intelligence.
Lucky us.
Knock knock
Who's there?
Blackwater........
Sleep well, America, you're in good hands now.
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» US Mercenary Groups + Insurgent Mujahideen = Death Squads
Posted by: jreinhart1
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Posted by: rsaxto on Oct 23, 2006 2:31 AM
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Posted by: JP2 on Oct 23, 2006 3:51 AM
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And about Iraq, someone here asked for suggestions to get out of the situation instead of rants. Shit, what suggestions do you expect?
OK, Do you want to know why the situation created by the US government right now is worse than Hitler's in Poland or France? Because at the time England and America and the Soviet Union where there to oppose their good intentions to the evil ones.
Now there are no nations or alliances in the world to oppose the big bully.
Our only hope is a big waking-up of the American people, and --following-- of the western people in general (the opposite just wouldn't work) : and I don't mean by voting some phony alternative in rigged elections: I mean by marching in the streets and actively opposing this government, even risking their lives and future.
Tien-an-men style, people, no less.
Sorry for those Americans who are reading this and feeling uncomfortable, but guys, this burden is on you now. Face your responsibilities. Turn off your TV screens and do something unpredictable for once.
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» RE: The Big brother CIA blog-screening program won't like the following comment
Posted by: kackermann
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Posted by: lively56 on Oct 23, 2006 4:22 AM
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» You can view it here right now.
Posted by: ItsTime
» I just watched it
Posted by: grim ripper
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Posted by: Monitor523 on Oct 23, 2006 6:00 AM
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The "Salvador Option" was brought up because the conventional thinking within the Pentagon and CIA is that the operations in El Salvador were a success, and the various tortures, rapes, brutal murders etc. carried out by local forces trained by the CIA and special forces were not part of the policy, but an "unfortunate" side effect due to providing the technical training and tools to people who don't have the same ethical stance as the US military. They think of it as a "lesser evil", and as a way of getting influence over the behavior of people who would be doing such things anyway, and cite the decline in the death rate in the later part of the El Salvador operation. (Which ignores the fact that, since it was successful, in the sense of suppressing threats to the US-approved government, there was less killing to do in the later parts).
Now, you may not find that convincing, but it seems to be the standard outlook within the Pentagon. Future projection of American power to defend various US/Western interests - political, business, or whatever - are liable to use the military for some time, regardless of which political party sets the big-picture policy objectives, because that's the kind of power America has. The use of the military will probably move away from the use of large-scale Army operations like the one in Iraq, regardless of which party wins the next few election cycles (maybe more gradually, maybe less, depending on just what happens). Which means more embedding of Green Berets and Marines within the forces of death-squad operating governments in areas of strategic interest to the US.
Baghdad is also a snapshot of the future of war because it's in an urban setting, and because the "two-side" model with clear rules of warfare is breaking down and being replaced by a multi-side conflict between groups identified by factional, ethnic, language, religious, and cultural identity. Because it illustrates the blurring of the line between civil policing and warfare as civil disorder gets bigger and warfare gets more "unconventionalized". We've seen other precursors in Chechnya, Mogadishu, etc.
And as much as the current US policy may exacerbate the problem, these trends are mainly driven by: growing poverty due to resource depletion, environmental degradation and overpopulation; rapid urbanization of the third world; a large state-backed arms industry; the continuing effects of the loss of a political frame for conflict such as provided by the Cold War.
All indications are we can expect to see more of the same in one or more of Nigeria, Sudan, Pakistan, and possibly others in coming years and decades. Possibly others if the Iraq model is applied to, say, Iran or Syria.
So my question is: regardless of who wins the US election (let's say it's the Democrats, and they miraculously become susceptible to demands to rein in the military-industrial complex... what, then, is the big story about what we do instead? The Big Idea for making the Earth secure and livable for its occupants? My guess is it won't be based on purely national policy or national interests. What, then?
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» RE: "Salvador Option"
Posted by: daw13
» Confirmation that military intelligence is a logical contradicton
Posted by: thoughtcriminal
» trivia
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: trivia
Posted by: Monitor523
» An idea
Posted by: daw13
» RE: An idea
Posted by: Monitor523
» Reality or Delusion Option
Posted by: Hal
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Posted by: symcokid on Oct 23, 2006 7:40 AM
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Posted by: edith on Oct 23, 2006 9:12 AM
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So it's Nigeria, Indoneisia, and Venezuela next?
Oh no. It's time to get out the old Vietnam walking boots.
Shut it down.
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» RE: this energy policy must end
Posted by: mdruss42
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Posted by: Burtonger on Oct 23, 2006 10:38 AM
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The NEW WORLD ORDER of business is winning, so far profits are way up for the new NAZIs.
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» By "American People" I assume you mean "33% of the American People"
Posted by: SteveB
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Posted by: willymack on Oct 23, 2006 11:55 AM
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» RE: Government death squads
Posted by: mdruss42
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Posted by: harinama on Oct 23, 2006 11:59 AM
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Get the Iraqi constitution rewritten to allow US corporate takeover.
Build the 1/2 dozen military bases as a staging ground for the rest of the middle east.
Install a puppet govt to do the bidding of the neocon fascists.
Finish the underground pipeline from Kuwait to steal much of Iraq's oil.
So..maybe they didnt get EVERYTHING they wanted by now, but they are close. The neocons have been supporting death squads all over the world since the early 70's in countries such as: Chile(Pinochet),Argentina, Columbia,Phillipines, Pakistan,Guatamala, El Salvador, Uzbekistan, Yugoslavia, Spain(Franco), Indonesia, Iran(Shah).etc AND IRAQ(under Sadaam and after).
It's amazing..the rest of the world knows what they are doing and their goals, namely control of the financial markets and resources of lesser developed countries. This new 21st century imperialism is the same as old, just coached in different terms.
The only real avenue is to GET THE FUCK OUT. Vietnam could never be won by as an occupying force, and never will Iraq (and soon to be Iran). We are only helping radical islamic leaders to get more recruits and gain more political standing(evidenced by the rise of Hamas and Hezbollah) by staying. Not only are we lessening the violence by staying, we are actually increasing it every day.
But maybe...just maybe The neoconfuckups want thsi. They want to create a new 21st century enemy to divert the attentions of the US populace away from their imperialist fascist agenda by creating an illusive(hence the lack of capture of the cia operative bin laden) enemy that grows to the size of the old soviet threat.
We are just pawns in this game. What do we do with criminals who subjugate our voting process, destroy our contitution and the rights it proposes to our citizens, and proceeds with illegal wars, killing innocent foreign civilians (at nearly 700k at this point) in our name?
This is treasonous activity that goes to the very core of our society. If we do not root out these demogogs, our country will be a shadow of it's former self with massive internal strife with the bane and hatred of the rest of the world on us for decades to come. Thus, the only way to deal with this is to arrest our illicit leaders(who gained power via a bloodless coup), and put them up for charges of warcrimes. While i do not generally believe in the death penalty because it preys on the poor and uneducated, i am for it in this case.
Get the troops completely out.
Trash the "recreated" Iraqi constitution,
Undo ALL of Bremer's 100 orders,
Remove the present puppet governement, and allow Iraqis to really vote in the parliament that they want with proportional representation, WITHOUT SPLITTING UP THE COUNTRY).
Give $50billion to independent iraq and worldwide agencies to put towards rebuilding the country HIRING IRAQIS TO DO IT.
Create a fund to compensate them for the next 20 years. It has to hurt, so put the figure at, say $500billion. It wont cover all of the pain and suffering we've caused, but it will allow them to rebuild their infrastructure, take control of their resources and build new lives in the ashes.
Allow a new coalition of Middle-East peace keepers to come in and work with the Iraqi forces to begin to quell the violence.
AMERICANS NEED TO FEEL THE PAIN OF THE IGNORANCE AND IDIOCY OF OUR CALLOUS AND IMPERIALIST CULTURE.
These are the paths to peace in Iraq. Sovereinty,Security, Stability, Freedom, Independence.
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» RE: devil really does wear prada
Posted by: mdruss42
» RE: devil really does wear prada
Posted by: symcokid
» Iraqis way ahead of you
Posted by: SteveB
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Posted by: harinama on Oct 23, 2006 4:00 PM
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In building a govt in Iraq it is imperative that all parties feel included in the process. Thus it will be necessary to bring together the different factions, especially those that are actively battling US forces presently, to state their desires for a future Iraq.
All to often the US acts as a hegemonic sanctimonious piece of shit, and doesnt respect the cultural and ideological views of other countries and their citizens. It is very possible that a stable Iraq may take a completely different approach than the corporatist fascist pseudo representative democracy that is being forced down their throat.
Iraq, at one time, was a shining star in the region with the most progressive culture, stable government, highest literacy, lowest infant mortality, highest regard for women, etc. The list goes on and on. The US installed and propped up Sadaam in the 80's to go against Iran. Sadaam acted like your typical mafia boss, namely forcing everyone to cowtow and getting pay backs. However, he did understand that you can't shake the boat (or the store owner up so to speak), or you cant milk the country for money. Thus, while he subjugated the people to his will, the basic infrastructure was still in place from Iraq's heyday.
What really has destroyed Iraq, was the first 2 months of the occupacy in which Bremer et all dismantled the military, the entire police force, rewrote the constitution, and implemented the evil 100 orders. Iraq now has become a UW corporatist enterprise, and WOW guess what? The Iraqi people are smart enough to see it and are rebelling. They are not approaching a civil war, THEY ARE IN A FREEDOM WAR, mostly against western control and subjugation.
This conflict is very likely to get even worse before it gets better, and it's up to each and everyone of us to push for getting out and reparations. The Iraqi's in the end will have to decide the kind of society they want to create post Sadaam and post US. We'll have to get out with our tail between our legs and leave all of our imperialist aspirations in the dumpster.
Again, lets just hope that someday we can act as a civilized member of the world community instead of what we are now. BUT IT'S A LONG ROAD AND WE HAVE TO START NOW!
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Posted by: sofla100 on Oct 23, 2006 6:52 PM
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Posted by: grim ripper on Oct 23, 2006 10:26 PM
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If you can watch freedom to fascism without jumping out of your chair.... then please, DO tell how you do it
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Posted by: werewolf on Oct 23, 2006 11:53 PM
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» RE: Sadaam is a Criminal Regardless of Whether His Successor is Bad Too
Posted by: werewolf
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Posted by: opeluboy on Oct 24, 2006 5:52 PM
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Posted by: Captainmagic on Oct 25, 2006 5:28 PM
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Rumsfeld doing a great job!!!!!!..JESUS!!!!...THEY are completely lost in their own spin...and just curious....what happens in Eighteen months...whats on the calendar in eighteen months time prey tell......and why eighteen months....why not this time next year.....Mmmmmm Iran maybe...Mmmmmm..puzzle?
Captain OUT
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