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Wives in Danger from Gun Toting Culture
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He was much larger than I am, and he had a beefy football-player build and short dark hair -- the bouncer type. He was going to get physical if I objected. He was ready to push as we walked quickly past the long row of tables covered with guns and ammo, past the woman collecting money for admission. Talk to him, I said to myself. Talk to him. I kept telling him I didn't work for the newspapers as he herded me to the exit.
"No pictures," he kept repeating.
"No pictures," he insisted one last time as he opened the heavy door and gently pushed me out. Then he closed the door and left me standing outside with my camera dangling from my hand.
A hand-lettered sign appeared outside the entrance: NO CAMERAS ALLOWED.
Thirty minutes earlier I had walked into the public fair-grounds to attend a local gun show in Moscow, Idaho. It was the mid 1990s, and I was taking photographs of abandoned lumber mills and deserted mines in the Pacific Northwest. I was shooting what I thought were the industrial ruins of the rural West. I had also taken pictures of men in gun stores eyeing a new rifle and men hunting during deer and elk season, the ordinary lives of rural Westerners. I wanted to add pictures of men and women at gun shows.
At that point, I wasn't writing about gun culture. I was only taking pictures of daily life in small rural Western towns.
My husband eventually found me outside. We talked about what had happened and decided to find out if it was legal to prevent me from taking photographs at a gun show held at a public fairground. We phoned around and received conflicting answers from city and county attorneys.
The phone system in the small town was working well that day. By the time we came back to the gun show to talk with the organizer, an unofficial compromise had been reached with the relevant public officials. I could come back the next morning with my camera and photograph before the public was admitted. I could photograph the exhibitors and their exhibits if I asked permission first and they agreed.
I was disappointed, of course. What I wanted to shoot was the feel of the gun show. How people held guns, bargained with sellers, traded, and shopped for guns. I wanted to inch closer to why guns were so important to rural Westerners. I wasn't certain what I would find.
I agreed to the conditions. Some pictures are better than none.
Before I left, I asked the organizer why they enforced rules against cameras. What was the problem? Was it a distrust of government? Did they think I worked for the ATF, the IRS, or the FBI? Was it anger against gun-control groups? Did they think I worked for Sarah Brady's handgun organization, or for Cease Fire, a Seattle-based gun violence prevention group? Maybe it was about hunting and animal rights? Or worse, I could be a PETA worker.
There was a long list of possible reasons for the no-camera policy.
The organizer looked at me hard when I asked the question. Why no cameras? He responded with one word: "Alimony." "What?" I asked. Had I heard right?
"Alimony?"
"Yes, alimony." He then explained that the men inside the gun show didn't want their pictures showing up in newspapers where their ex-wives might see them.
I asked him more questions, but he wasn't in a talking mood. It was about alimony, period. I'd have to leave it at that.
Maybe the organizer thought some ex-wife had hired me to track down her husband and prove that he was handing over for a new hunting rifle what should be her cash. Maybe the organizer actually thought that ex-wives scanned the local papers looking for photos of their former husbands to see if they could catch them spending what was legally theirs.
At later gun shows, I started to pay more attention. Were ex- wives and their demands a threat to some guys at the gun shows? I frequently saw books for sale at the shows such as The Predatory Female by Rev. Lawrence Shannon, whose field guide to dating includes a set of tactics to undermine the supposed Gestapo power of women who rule the divorce and child-custody judicial system. In a radio interview, Shannon said that "victims of the predatory female are strewn all over the nation, writing alimony checks, recovering from gunshot wounds, treating cat scratches, trying to see their children, paying attorney's fees, picking through the detritus of their lives, and struggling to recover from ruined years." The Predatory Female is a collection of warnings about women who prey on the feelings and bank ac- counts of unsuspecting men. Female predators have their eyes on one thing alone -- money. They marry and divorce to get alimony. They use emotions of love, trust, and care to undermine the sacred contract of marriage. They are the new scourges of secular life, hunting down unsuspecting men to get bucks and tear out their hearts.
Wives were threats. Girlfriends were threats. Women who talked too much were threats. And women who held public office and wouldn't shut up were the scourge of the land. I have also picked up bumper stickers at gun shows that said: I JUST GOT A GUN FOR MY WIFE. IT'S THE BEST TRADE I EVER MADE. Or, handouts detailing the "Top 10 Reasons Handguns Are Better than Women," ending with the number-one reason, "You can buy a silencer for a handgun." I had also seen some pretty vicious materials on Hillary Clinton and Janet Reno at local shows in the '90s. A new fear floated above some of the gun exhibits: judges, lawyers, and voters were giving women too much power, and the women were using that power to take guns away from their husbands, their boyfriends, and their constituents. A gun-grabber lurked in the heart of the liberated woman.
Maybe the no-camera rule was about alimony. In this latest male fantasy about the war between the sexes, I could have been hired by a female predator to shoot pictures at a gun show for a ruthless ex- or estranged wife. I was just part of a new generation of bottom-feeders out to get men, one of the vast army of women intent on misandry, a new word invented to capture this hatred of men by women.
At the law seminar in Reno during the 2002 National Rifle As sociation annual convention, I learned about other ways women can grab guns. The atmosphere in the hotel conference room exuded professionalism, with somber and rational panels on topics such as Constitutional and criminal law, nonprofit and tax-exempt information, product liability, and ethics. Sitting in the darkened room, listening to the intricacies of product liability defense, I thought about the contrast in tone between the pumped-up speeches in the other rooms at the hotel and the subdued discussions of the lawyers, policy analysts, and historians working for the NRA. In the midst of these carefully paced presentations, I first heard about the legal problems gun owners dealt with when faced with domestic-violence orders.
Under the terms of certain restraining orders, guns are prohibited. Domestic violence and divorce set in motion a range ofboth state and federal statutes and laws aimed at disarming violent or potentially violent intimate partners. Since the 1996 Lautenberg Amendment that followed passage of the Violence Against Women Act in 1994, it is a federal crime to possess a firearm while subject to a restraining order from an intimate partner or after a misdemeanor conviction of the crime of domestic violence.
No one at the law seminar lingered on why there was domestic violence in the United States, or how this violence affected men, women, and children, or what steps could be taken to reduce or prevent such violence. And for many of the attorneys present, it was strictly a legal issue about due process, federal statutes, and legal precedents.What happened in the living room or bedroom, likely sites of what crime analysts called simple assault, was off the political and rhetorical radar screens. At the law seminar I also heard no discussions on how to protect women from men in their own homes. No, the issue was only about how many individuals convicted of misdemeanors or strapped with restraining orders would lose the right to own firearms. The big issue was how to get them back. It was all about the guns.
I found out that the police were particularly vulnerable. There was mention of how the Minneapolis Police Department was practically disarmed because so many police had present or past restraining orders against them. There was a sense of relief that the courts and Congress might rule in favor of the cops and military personnel, exempting them from the gun regulation. No one talked about domestic violence, because violence in the home didn't have the emotional punch of a violent predator breaking into your home. Then the homeowner was a hero defending his property, not a villain beating up on his spouse. The vigilante gun owner could hang a sign in his window, announcing, "IS THERE LIFE AFTER DEATH? TRESPASS HERE AND FIND OUT. Or, WARNING!! TRESPASSERS WILL BE SHOT. SURVIvORS WILL BE SHOT AGAIN. But what kind of sign could the battered wife hang up?
In 2005, Ted Nugent, in his keynote address to the NRA annual meeting in Houston, could rant about plugging all the bad guys: "I want 'em dead." But what if the cop or the soldier or the store-owner was the bad guy? Cops were a touchy subject in gun-rights circles. Some police organizations wanted exceptions made for officers under restraining orders, which would make it more difficult for them to lose their firearms. There were complicated legal questions about restraining orders and previous misdemeanor convictions of domestic violence. Other cops wanted "law enforcement persons" held to a "higher standard, not a different standard." In 1997, Ronald E. Hampton, the executive director of the National Black Police Association, testified before the House Subcommittee on Crime. He spoke against exempting police officers. "At a time when the relationship between the community and the police is constantly deteriorating, we believe this effort by police unions and other associations is misguided and will result in the continued widening gulf between the community and the police." He went on to say in 1995, "forty percent of police questioned acknowledged using physical force with a partner in the past year."According to other testimony, police and military personnel were implicated in the crime of domestic violence at higher rates than were the general population. The Domestic Violence Offender Gun Ban provides no exemptions for these two groups.
One gun lobbyist I interviewed lowered his voice when he told me -- off the record -- that he had no sympathy for the cop who loses his gun to a restraining order. He had scolded one cop who called him up, telling him he wanted nothing to do with the cop's restraining-order complaint. But he wanted me to know that he felt women overreacted with restraining orders: women were abusing their new power in the courts, leaving men defenseless without their guns. Discussions of crime seemed always to come back to crimes by strangers who used or might use violent force. Once again, the armed assailant seemed to be the major threat -- indeed, the only threat. But there was that one nagging exception, the man who turned on his partner with rage.
In 1998, the National Institute for Justice reported that each year 1.5 million women were raped or physically assaulted by intimate partners. Many of these attacks occurred in the privacy of the home. Men were more likely to be attacked by strangers. In contrast, women were seven to fourteen times "more likely to report that an intimate partner beat them up, choked or tried to drown them, threatened them with a gun, or actually used a gun on them."
As a woman at gun shows, I am usually pitched specific guns to ward off the predator breaking into my house or stalking me. At a gun show in the state of Washington, I spent time talking with an arms manufacturer who specialized in variations of the AR-15, originally made by Colt. A semiautomatic rifle that has parts interchangeable with the M16, this rifle can accom- modate a number of different calibers and setups. It has been modified so that it cannot be interchangeable in its lower receiver group with M16 parts, making it difficult to give it full automatic capability.
The marketing specialist at the booth told me that the AR-15 could be adapted for home defense. I could put in a short barrel, less than 16" long -- what cops used in closed spaces to shoot the bad guys. The man at the booth warned me that he couldn't put the short barrel in the gun receiver because he would be breaking the law. No barrel under 16" can go into thegun frame. Instead, he held it about a half-inch from the gun frame and demonstrated how it would work. It was an impressive-looking weapon. Stocky and mean, a dull black. I wanted to ask him if he was serious. Did he really think I would buy a military weapon to defend my home? I always thought if you really had cause to worry about an intruder in your bedroom, and there was no way you could run, you'd yank the shotgun out from the closet and blast away. You wouldn't even have to aim. You wouldn't even have to use buckshot. The noise from rock salt would scare most people to death. But he looked calm and intent, and I wasn't about to get into a quarrel with him about his goods.
Only once do I remember a salesman trying to sell me a gun to shoot my husband or boyfriend if he turned abusive. His personal philosophy on life was that everyone should be armed and packing. If everyone in the world were armed, there would be no domestic violence; in fact, there would be no violence at all. The bad husbands would finally get what they deserved. And all the bad people in the world would be stopped -- killed or executed on the spot. He insisted that even everyone in a bar, the traditional hot spot for assault, should be packing heat. Forget about alcohol. The gun itself would stop the violence. So what if the guy packing was drunk out of his skull? The gun had this amazing magic to prevent violence. It was a talisman of peace. I had reached the logical end of the gun-rights argument. Stop crime: Arm everyone.
Yet something was desperately wrong with this picture, even though I knew that some women, fearing for their lives every day, have decided to arm themselves against their ex-loved ones. Overall, domestic violence took the glamour out of the crime scene that pro-gun activists loved to describe. Husbands and wives shooting it out in the living room didn't have the same appeal as the brave homeowner gunning down a crazed burglar. And what about all those ad campaigns to get me to buy guns? The magazine and book tales of masked young predators generated gun sales. How do you advertise buying guns when the criminal was an ex-husband, a boyfriend, or a guy you dated a couple of weeks ago?
At the law seminar, I sat thinking about how much the right to own a gun owed to the typical crime-scene scenario. Those millions of hours that Americans spent watching cop shows and vigilante heroes helped pump up the psychic investment in guns. Still, I was having a hard time understanding how teams of lawyers for the National Rifle Association and other gun groups were ready to defend men under restraining orders. Maybe I just wasn't listening right.
At one point a question came up about Attorney General John Ashcroft and his push in the Department of Justice to accept the Second Amendment as an individual right. We were told that the Emerson case would determine whether Ashcroft's position would hold. Over the next couple of years, everywhere I turned in the gun-rights world the Emerson case was heralded as a great Second Amendment victory. Second Amendment activists would hand me copies of the complete legal ruling in paperback form. I have read on dozens of Second Amendment websites praise for the wisdom of the federal judges who wrote a masterly defense of individual rights. It was the greatest news to hit the gun lobby in years.
It came down to this: in 1998, the wife of Timothy Joe Emerson filed for divorce and applied for a restraining order against her husband. At a hearing, Sacha Emerson alleged that her husband made a threat over the telephone. He threatened to kill her "friend." The restraining order was granted. Later, her husband was indicted for "possession of a firearm while being under a restraining order." But, in a Texas federal district court, this indictment was dismissed by Judge Sam R. Cummings. In a memorandum brimming with colonial history, the Second Amendment reared its righteous head. Judge Cummings argued that the federal actions to protect women against intimate-partner violence didn't hold up against the struggles of our revolutionary fathers to found a nation with arms. The estranged and threatening husband had a sacred and individual right to his guns. No "boilerplate state court divorce order can collaterally and automatically extinguish a law-abiding citizen's Second Amendment rights."
The government appealed to the federal Fifth Circuit Court, which upheld the indictment against the husband. The hus- band's attorneys argued that there were insufficient judicial findings that he was a "credible threat"; the Fifth Circuit Court disagreed. Two of the three judges accepted the argument that while the Second Amendment gave an individual a right to own a gun, it did not give an individual under a restraining order the right to own a gun.
Gun activists sometimes lament the fact that it was hard to find a "righteous gun case" that they can take all the way up to the Supreme Court and prove once and for all that the Constitution protects the right of the individual to keep and bear arms. A gun used to threaten and intimidate a spouse was hardly a gun worth Constitutional protection. A gun brandished to scare a burglar was one thing; a gun brandished to scare a wife was another.
Was Sacha Emerson just another gun-grabbing wife? In reading the opinion of the Fifth Circuit Court, I wondered, because most of the opinion was not about the restraining order at all. That question was settled in a concise statement by the judges. Why this case was the great hope of the gun-rights world rested on the fact that two of the three federal judges had used the opinion to expound for more than fifty pages about how the Second Amendment protected individual rights. It was a coup d'état. There were also fourteen amicus curiae, or "friends of the court," submitting briefs to argue for Timothy Joe Emerson, including one from the National Rifle Association.
And the arguments of the NRA's lawyers, or what is called their "2A" attorneys, and the two federal judges overlapped. I wasn't urprised. At meetings of the NRA, including their law seminar, I had repeatedly heard these legal opinions, especially arguments focused on what our founding fathers said or didn't say about the right to bear arms. I guess the two federal judges were hoping that the Supreme Court would jump on their position and finally give the gun-rights activists what they had been claimingin their brand of conservative politics for thirty years.
The final, sweet vindication by the highest court in the land seemed within reach. The prize was finally in sight. Who cared if some frightened wife in Texas was worried enough to get a re- straining order? She was probably overreacting. She didn't need protection; his gun did.
I wonder how Sacha Emerson reacted to this court drama. Her application for a restraining order set off a series of events that cranked up the gun-rights groups for years. They submitted briefs for her husband's position and even set up legal defense funds for his support. He was the man of the hour. He was the case that could go all the way.
Yet John Ashcroft never did win vindication through the Emerson case. The United States Supreme Court refused to hear any further appeals, a decision that depressed gun-rights activists for weeks. The legal teams of the National Rifle Association and other gun-rights groups would have to wait longer for their triumph in the Supreme Court.
© 2006 by Joan Burbick. This piece originally appears in Joan Burbick’s Gun Show Nation: Gun Culture and American Democracy (The New Press, October 17, 2006). Published with the permission of The New Press and available at good book stores everywhere.
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Comments are closed-
Posted by: rsaxto on Oct 17, 2006 12:55 AM
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» RE: never say never
Posted by: Rolomax
» Numbers are telling but common sense must rule the day!
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» If laws should control who gets guns
Posted by: Ellie1
» I take it you have never heard of Nazi Germany, huh?
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: I take it you have never heard of Nazi Germany, huh?
Posted by: aonghus36
» RE: I take it you have never heard of Nazi Germany, huh?
Posted by: wolfdaughter
» Excuse me ??? Another couple of NRA myths ...
Posted by: AdamSelene40
» Oh, really???? So the gov is lying about what happens if there is a red alert???
Posted by: Prophit
» I don't subscribe to the NRA so I have no idea what THEIR MYTHS ARE.
Posted by: Prophit
» That is just fine, you can own guns, I give a shit
Posted by: jwg
» That is a stupid comment, If I stab my significant other with a knife, I should go to friggen...
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: If laws should control who gets guns
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: If laws should control who gets guns
Posted by: Rolomax
» RE: If laws should control who gets guns
Posted by: Jack Burton
» RE: If laws should control who gets guns
Posted by: FilthyMcNasty
» RE: never
Posted by: harris
» RE: never
Posted by: techphile
» RE: never
Posted by: Jack Burton
» RE: never
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: never
Posted by: Jesse
» RE: never
Posted by: Jack Burton
» Pro-choice
Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: Pro-choice
Posted by: Jesse
» RE: Pro-choice
Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: Pro-choice
Posted by: Jack Burton
» RE: Pro-choice
Posted by: Jack Burton
» RE: never
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: never
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: never
Posted by: mick669
» Do you know any gun nuts by name?
Posted by: velvel of atlanta
» RE: Do you know any gun nuts by name?
Posted by: rsaxto
» RE: Do you know any gun nuts by name?
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Do you know any gun nuts by name?
Posted by: Jack Burton
» RE: Do you know any gun nuts by name?
Posted by: longlivecheney
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Posted by: LeftWright on Oct 17, 2006 1:43 AM
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No one needs semi-automatic weapons. These are not for hunting or legitimate self-protection.
Handguns can be kept in local armories incorporated into police stations. Handguns are much more likely to kill the owners or someone the owner knows and cares about. Handgun violence is an epidemic in American cities and must be stopped.
We must reject the absurd fallacy that gun control will lead to gun elimination.
Target shooting is noisy, but fun.
The truth shall set you free. Love is the only way forward.
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» RE: Support the Second Amendment
Posted by: Jack Burton
» So there! (with tongue stickin' out)
Posted by: texshelters
» RE: So there! (with tongue stickin' out)
Posted by: Jack Burton
» RE: Support the Second Amendment
Posted by: Artkansas
» RE: Support the Second Amendment
Posted by: harris
» LeftWright--you have a sweet disposition
Posted by: LDavistrueblue
» Dang tricky liberal
Posted by: texshelters
» RE: Dang tricky liberal
Posted by: Jack Burton
» RE: Dang tricky liberal
Posted by: Robba29
» RE: Dang tricky liberal
Posted by: Jack Burton
» RE: Dang tricky liberal
Posted by: Robba29
» RE: Dang tricky liberal
Posted by: Jack Burton
» RE: Dang tricky liberal: Ooo, name callin'. that's smart
Posted by: texshelters
» RE: Dang tricky liberal: Ooo, name callin'. that's smart
Posted by: Robba29
» RE: Dang tricky liberal: Ooo, name callin'. that's smart
Posted by: Jack Burton
» RE: Dang tricky liberal: Yes all liberals are anti-gunners, as we all know
Posted by: texshelters
» RE: Dang tricky liberal: Yes all liberals are anti-gunners, as we all know
Posted by: Robba29
» RE: Dang tricky liberal: Yes all liberals are anti-gunners, as we all know
Posted by: Jack Burton
» High Caliber
Posted by: YogiBear
» High Caliber-- LeftWright's argument is shakier than a french-kissed altarboy
Posted by: LDavistrueblue
» Support the Second Amendment
Posted by: YogiBear
» Guns in the Home and the Myth of Self-Defense OR when facts get in the way (part1)
Posted by: LeftWright
» ..when facts get in the way (part deux)
Posted by: LDavistrueblue
» I run, and I'm fast too (LOL)
Posted by: LeftWright
» Speaking of facts...
Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: Guns in the Home and the Myth of Self-Defense OR when facts get in the way (part1)
Posted by: Jack Burton
» RE: Support the Second Amendment
Posted by: FNU LNU
» RE: Support the Second Amendment
Posted by: FilthyMcNasty
» RE: Support the Second Amendment
Posted by: patriotswrath
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Posted by: mah_favorite_flavor_cherry_red on Oct 17, 2006 3:29 AM
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This is article is just another in an endless stream of overclass-friendly propaganda generated by the FakeLeft.
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» RE: this kind of male bashing drives males away from the Left. And it is calculated to do that...
Posted by: Paul D
» RE: this kind of male bashing drives males away from the Left. And it is calculated to do that...
Posted by: harris
» RE: this kind of male bashing drives males away from the Left. And it is calculated to do that...
Posted by: sln70
» Change the channel
Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: this kind of male bashing drives males away from the Left. And it is calculated to do that...
Posted by: harris
» Oh please . . .
Posted by: VisionQuest
» PLEASE EVERYONE IGNORE THE ISSUE OF DOMESTIC VIOLENCE
Posted by: texshelters
» RE: this kind of male bashing OH PLEASE> IT'S ABOUT WOMEN NOT MEN
Posted by: maribelle
» RE: this kind of male bashing OH PLEASE> IT'S ABOUT WOMEN NOT MEN
Posted by: Jack Burton
Comments are closed-
Posted by: maxpayne on Oct 17, 2006 3:35 AM
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Through years of right-wing radio brain washing, the R's convinced the NRA members that to protect the Constitution from evildoers, we might have to gloss over some of the pesky parts, the Bill of Rights (except for #2), balance of powers, etc. So these red staters are now primed and ready for a major "terrorist" attack to occur (backed by Iran this time), and are more than willing to see the Constitution suspended and the elections of '08 cancelled, with Bush declared de facto Caesar.
So instead of the NRA folks using their firepower to prevent a national coupe, they have been conned into supporting the coupe.
Brilliant!
Democrats will have no say in this seizing of power, since liberals don't own guns, 'cause they're yucky. It will be Limbaugh listeners and National Guardsmen on one side, and well-armed gang bangers and criminals on the other, with quivering tree huggin' hippies quaking in their Birkenstocks and wetting themselves in the middle.
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» Finally, a correct analysis of what will go down. Just check out Britian and Australia.
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Finally, a correct analysis of what will go down. Just check out Britian and Australia.
Posted by: polyquat50
» Violent crime in America is decreasing. Here read this.......
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: The Constitution especially the Bill of Rights except for the 2nd Amendment is already being BUR
Posted by: Gentlewoman
» I just said the same thing in a post below..... there are plenty of dems who own guns.
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: The Constitution especially the Bill of Rights except for the 2nd Amendment is already being BUR
Posted by: aonghus36
» RE: The Constitution especially the Bill of Rights except for the 2nd Amendment is already being BURNED!
Posted by: Jack Burton
» Nice handle
Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: Nice handle
Posted by: Jack Burton
» Oh, dear, which shall I choose? Go with the immature democrats or the nazi Repubs???
Posted by: Prophit
» so you trust the government to do what?
Posted by: velvel of atlanta
» RE: The Constitution especially the Bill of Rights except for the 2nd Amendment is already being BURNED!
Posted by: FilthyMcNasty
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Posted by: willie.horton on Oct 17, 2006 3:39 AM
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We also have a close friend -- a New Jersey attorney -- who is unjustly victimized by those laws. His ex-wife constantly makes trouble for him, even threatening to falsely accuse him of molesting her daughter (he has that one on tape). Like me, he isn't capable of harming a woman... but that hasn't stopped her from filing a series of complaints and restraining orders against him. His guns have spent so much time in police lockers that he jokes with the cops, asking him to take them to the target range once in a while.
Here in Delaware, concealed carry permits rewuire exensive training and background checks, and are only issued subject to the discretion of a panel of judges... unless the applicant is a woman with a restraining order against a man, in which case they are issued automatically. This makes sense. Giving an abuse victim the power to defend herself, instead of a cell phone to call 911, may save her life... and definitely acts as a deterrent to her abuser, since most wifebeaters are truly cowards who fear having .38-caliber holes punched in their oh-so-manly chests.
As for those who want to take all the guns away from everyone (apparently, they're up early): great idea. Let's hire enough cops to protect everyone in real time, so they won't need to defend themselves. We'll need to deputize, oh, half the population? Bush would love it...
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» RE: In favor of guns, and of the domestic violence laws
Posted by: tlCampbell
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Posted by: maxpayne on Oct 17, 2006 3:43 AM
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» So true indeed. Just look at the glaring DOUBLE STANDARDS in privacy rights between guns and p2p !
Posted by: SDres11
» RE: Moreover, ever notice how the entertainment industries & the gun lobbyists make strange bedfellows ?
Posted by: Jack Burton
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Posted by: JP2 on Oct 17, 2006 3:46 AM
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I think the relationship it's not the one of the male with the guns oppressing the female (as this article seems to imply) nor the one of the whites with the guns oppressing the blacks or the blacks with the guns oppressing the whites and so forth.
I think the relationship is between paranoia and guns. Paranoia reaches for the gun, and the gun, which is so powerful, creates more paranoia.
Ethics was invented by men who felt they themselves had too much power, and got scared of the too much power they had.
In the relationship between guns and paranoia ethics are usually absent, which is why the feeling of power gets so strong that it always turns into paranoia and never into ethics. Or something like that.
Still, while I always despised guns because I imagined them as tools to kill animals or to commit crimes against defenceless people or to fight unjust wars, I cannot forget that guns, and weapons in general, are necessary if you need to fight your armed oppressor.
Che Guevara had a gun, after all.
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» RE: Part of the little I understand of it
Posted by: Jack Burton
» RE: Part of the little I understand of it
Posted by: JP2
» RE: Part of the little I understand of it
Posted by: outsidea
» RE: Part of the little I understand of it
Posted by: JP2
» RE: Part of the little I understand of it
Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: Part of the little I understand of it
Posted by: JP2
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Posted by: Abushite on Oct 17, 2006 4:55 AM
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Do they understand that the guns are merely coming with militia to protect the constitution ? Don't they understand that this militia was called up in a time of emergency?
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» RE: School Children
Posted by: binkey
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Posted by: gellero on Oct 17, 2006 4:57 AM
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» RE: People who hate guns
Posted by: aonghus36
» RE: People who hate guns
Posted by: texshelters
» RE: People who hate guns
Posted by: Jack Burton
» RE: People who hate guns
Posted by: texshelters
» RE: People who hate guns
Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: People who hate guns
Posted by: Jack Burton
» RE: People who hate guns
Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: People who hate guns
Posted by: tlCampbell
» RE: People who hate guns
Posted by: Jack Burton
» RE: People who hate guns
Posted by: tlCampbell
» RE: People who hate guns
Posted by: Jack Burton
» RE: People who hate guns
Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: People who hate guns
Posted by: tlCampbell
Comments are closed-
Posted by: patagonianomore on Oct 17, 2006 5:16 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Back in 1999 or 2000, Stan Grossfeld, Associate Editor of the Boston Globe and Pulitzer Prize winning photographer did a special report on gun shows and the organizers of this one gun show, let him in and take pictures. It was one of the only times any gun show did such a thing. What's interesting was his wife was the Co-producer of the the Oscar-award winning documentary, Defending Our Lives, a documentary on the Framingham 8. The Framingham 8 were a group of 8 women from Massachusetts living in abusive relationships who murdered their husbands because their lives were at risk. It's a very moving short documentary and an excellent tool for educating anybody on the roots of domestic violence.
Interesting coincidence.
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» RE: An important link is empahsized
Posted by: YogiBear
» Oscar
Posted by: Donna_Darko
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Posted by: SDres11 on Oct 17, 2006 6:03 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Moreover, notice how the NRA and most of the gun lobbyists OPENLY and SILENTLY work with the commercial dwellers and the bought off politicians to restrict hunters at every angle while at the same time permitting environmental DESTRUCTION !
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» RE: Guns sure don't protect us South Dakota residents from elite business hostile takeovers !
Posted by: aonghus36
» RE: Guns sure don't protect us South Dakota residents from elite business hostile takeovers !
Posted by: mizkaye
» Small arms vs. tanks
Posted by: YogiBear
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Posted by: Julia Cat on Oct 17, 2006 6:11 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: terrific article
Posted by: questionthemark1
» RE: terrific article
Posted by: Cathyblj
» RE: terrific article
Posted by: questionthemark1
» Domestic violence
Posted by: BlueTigress
» RE: terrific article
Posted by: jessicajessica
» RE: terrific article
Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: terrific article
Posted by: maribelle
» In their place
Posted by: YogiBear
Comments are closed-
Posted by: AdamSelene40 on Oct 17, 2006 6:25 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
My suspicion is that none of it: guns, race, uppish women is really matters to the NRA. These are simply issues that will persuade poorer men with grievances to support richer men with agendas.
It's sure not about protecting my 'right' to own or use firearms. The NRA is spectacularly ineffective at that. Oh, from time to time they use their ENORMOUS political clout to quash a particularly stupid "ugly gun law" ... but when it comes to drafting legislation that would both secure access to guns, and protect society from the more predictable misuse of guns -- the NRA is MIA.
What MIGHT work is the sort of scheme that makes AUTOMOBILE technology available to the broad masses: an elaborate regulatory bureacracy supported by fees and taxes paid by motorists. If the NRA had been a supporter of 'car rights,' a few rich guys would still be driving expensive cars on private motorways and the rest of us would be riding donkeys and bicycles. Instead, there is a working social contract between pedestrians and motorists; because vehicles and drivers are registered, regulated, insured, and kept track of ... pretty much anyone who wants a vehicle can have a vehicle.
Nor oes the NRA promote technological innovation for non-milititary firearms. In fact: the NRA was instrumental in 'persuading' the industry NOT to persue the "one man gun" technology. This idea was to build a gun that could be programmed to fire only in the hand of it's owner. This would be a handgun that could be left loaded in the bedside table, without fear the kids, (or the burgler) would be able to shoot with it.
Part of the problem is that there isn't a problem: local authorities have been enacting gun control laws since the 1820s; by and large these laws have been sensible and practical; citizens have had access to the guns they wanted and needed; the authorities have had tools by which to manage those people who shouldn't be trusted with guns ... and to make a long story short: with more than 300 million firearms in circulation suprisingly few of them are used for crime, domestic abuse, or suicide.
Yet the NRA is a powerful lobbying organization ... but for what exactly remains a bit of a mystery.
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» RE: NRA -- It's the POLITICS, stupid!
Posted by: faultroy
» RE: NRA -- It's the POLITICS, stupid!
Posted by: outsidea
» RE: NRA -- It's the POLITICS, stupid!
Posted by: FilthyMcNasty
» RE: NRA -- It's the POLITICS, stupid!
Posted by: Jack Burton
» RE: NRA -- It's the POLITICS, stupid!
Posted by: YogiBear
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Steve Adair on Oct 17, 2006 6:26 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Which leaves me to wonder
Posted by: catnapping
» RE: Which leaves me to wonder
Posted by: aonghus36
» RE: There's one thing I'm sure of...
Posted by: texshelters
» RE: There's one thing I'm sure of...
Posted by: Jack Burton
» Give them an inch...
Posted by: YogiBear
Comments are closed-
Posted by: ABetterFuture on Oct 17, 2006 6:34 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Wouldn't that help society! Wouldn't we form a modern utopia without all those ridiculous, stupid camo-wearing duck slaughterers.
Woo-hoot! They're either with us or against us! Get me onboard! Where do I sign up?
Not. You folks out there in citizen-control mode are doing your so-called liberal ideals a disservice. Go join your idealological compatriots and picket an abortion clinic or something.
On second thought, I invite you to consider just leaving honest people alone.
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» RE: xactly! How can our Righteous Government ever trust an armed citizenry?
Posted by: Ulfhethner
» On the contrary, gun control has a role!
Posted by: ABetterFuture
» RE: xactly! How can our Righteous Government ever trust an armed citizenry?
Posted by: YogiBear
» An armed citizenry CANNOT be trusted ...
Posted by: AdamSelene40
» Methinks that by the time you trust the Congresscritters and the Grand Poobah...
Posted by: ABetterFuture
» Control does not mean disarmament
Posted by: TennMom
» Gun ownership is not a "conservative" value. It is a decidedly liberal one.
Posted by: ABetterFuture
» RE: Gun ownership is not a "conservative" value. It is a decidedly liberal one.
Posted by: TennMom
» Hmmm...2: STILL Gun ownership is not a "conservative" value. It is a decidedly liberal one.
Posted by: ABetterFuture
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Persephone8 on Oct 17, 2006 6:57 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am a believer in The Constitution The Bill of Rights and our inalienable rights.
The saying that "guns don't kill people. People kill people"
may have a deeper resonance.
This article, while complex, well researched and fascinating
feels like the writer is mixing metaphors.
I am not neccessarily FOR the NRA, and I do not believe in hunting. I do believe that historically, when societies were
disarmed, people lost their rights to properties, civil liberties
and freedom.
The saddest part of all is that people do not need guns to committ domestic violence.When a person is pathologicaly violent- and the intent is to harm or kill - an iron crobar,
broken bottle, knife or hand is as effective as a gun.
If this article is really about domestic violence, then it really isn't just about guns, or who own them.
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» RE: Guns, Violence and Rights
Posted by: Hairog
» RE: Guns, Violence and Rights
Posted by: Jack Burton
» RE: Guns, Violence and Rights, what can you expect?
Posted by: symcokid
Comments are closed-
Posted by: pcushniesr on Oct 17, 2006 7:00 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The truth is that manliness is not rooted in the crotch and respect does not come from the barrel of a gun.
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» OH, GIVE ME A BREAK. A mans passion for guns is rooted in his cultural background.
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: OH, GIVE ME A BREAK. A mans passion for guns is rooted in his cultural background.
Posted by: vangogh69
» RE: Penis Size Syndrome
Posted by: Jack Burton
» RE: Penis Size Syndrome
Posted by: aonghus36
» Thank you, its nice to hear someone else say that.
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Penis Size Syndrome
Posted by: TravisABQ
» my study indicates
Posted by: LDavistrueblue
» RE: Penis Size Syndrome
Posted by: scott@alter
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Posted by: pcushniesr on Oct 17, 2006 7:05 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
Posted by: pcushniesr
Comments are closed-
Posted by: hncarp00 on Oct 17, 2006 7:09 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» It's not about hunting.
Posted by: catnapping
» RE: It's not about hunting.
Posted by: Cathyblj
» RE: It's not about hunting.
Posted by: catnapping
» There are already guns at every corner by the powerfuls minions, its just us they want....
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Does the Right to Arms Include Nuclear Weapons?
Posted by: albrechtkrausse
» RE: Does the Right to Arms Include Nuclear Weapons?
Posted by: Jack Burton
» RE: Does the Right to Arms Include Nuclear Weapons?
Posted by: Robba29
» RE: Does the Right to Arms Include Nuclear Weapons?
Posted by: Jack Burton
» Yup
Posted by: edith
» Automatic response
Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: Does the Right to Arms Include Nuclear Weapons?
Posted by: scott@alter
Comments are closed-
Posted by: catnapping on Oct 17, 2006 7:10 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
My husband and I owned several...several weapons...and never in his life did he EVER touch me in a violent manner...or even threaten to.
Consider this folks - it's small arms that are helping Iraq's Freedom Fighters hold off US invaders/rapists.
The second amendment is one of our Bill of Rights. These were additions to the Constitution made to HOLD OFF TYRANNY. If you think Bush has Nazified our country NOW...just think how bad off we'd be if he and his henchmen didn't have to worry about us Patriots out here with our unregistered rifles, pistols, and revolvers?
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» Thank you, thank you, thank you!!!! REad Lori Price on CLG and what they are recommending....
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Oh good lord!
Posted by: thehousedog
» RE: Oh good lord!
Posted by: Ellie1
» Oh, please, I wouldn't want you to hurt your head by "thinking".
Posted by: Prophit
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Ulfhethner on Oct 17, 2006 7:12 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Don't confuse the two.
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» The NRA considers Feds "jackbooted thugs."
Posted by: catnapping
» So do I!!!!
Posted by: Prophit
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Arvy on Oct 17, 2006 7:21 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
1) In the USA, how many crimes are prevented by American citizens using their guns (whether crimes against themselves or others) every year?
2) Did Jesus use weapons or encourage their use? If not, then:
3) Should people who put their faith in guns come clean and admit they are not christians, even if they'd like to be.
Thanks.
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» RE: From Britain
Posted by: Ulfhethner
» I take it your not a Christian??? Jesus said there are times when you must trade in your....
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: From Britain
Posted by: Arvy
» In fact, violent crime in Britian went up after your full gun control was implemented.
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: In fact, violent crime in Britian went up after your full gun control was implemented.
Posted by: Arvy
» Aaah, projecting, a nice habit for control freaks.
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: From Britain
Posted by: Jack Burton
» RE: From Britain
Posted by: Colin
» RE: From Britain
Posted by: Arvy
» RE: From Britain
Posted by: Ulfhethner
» RE: From Britain
Posted by: Arvy
» Aaaah, but the difference is the powered elite did that exporting, not the average Brit....
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Aaaah, but the difference is the powered elite did that exporting, not the average Brit....
Posted by: Arvy
» Ahahahaha, every chance I get........ you can keep your royalty and all their perversion!!!!
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Ahahahaha, every chance I get........ you can keep your royalty and all their perversion!!!!
Posted by: Arvy
» Still avoiding answering about that BBC Article that shows Brits crime stats rose 35% after gun....
Posted by: Prophit
» What about the Blair witch?
Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: From Britain
Posted by: Ulfhethner
» RE: From Britain
Posted by: Steve Adair
» RE: From Britain
Posted by: Jack Burton
» RE: From Britain
Posted by: aonghus36
» RE: From Britain
Posted by: Jack Burton
» RE: From Britain
Posted by: binkey
» RE: From Britain
Posted by: Arvy
» Speaking of Britain
Posted by: YogiBear
» Hahahaa, boy I am getting in some good laughs. Thanks, YogiBear!!!
Posted by: Prophit
» People can't see the future
Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: From Britain
Posted by: scott@alter
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Ellie1 on Oct 17, 2006 7:31 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» We are suggesting you get your head out of your butt and listen up.....
Posted by: Prophit
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Prophit on Oct 17, 2006 7:38 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
One day, I got so tired of it, that I finally decided I didn't care anymore what happened to me and I was no longer AFRAID. Because of that I had the courage to tell him AS HE RAISED HIS FIST TO BEAT ME AGAIN, that he should wait a second before he hit me because there was something he should know before he hit me. Here is what I told him as he stood with his fist raised..... (this is a direct quote as I will never forget the power I found that day)
"If you hit me again, you better kill me, because if you don't when you go to sleep, I will kill you. Now, go ahead!" Something in my voice made him stop and think...... he held his hand up there for over 30 seconds and put it down and walked away. For a solid year after that he never hit me again. I finally divorced him. He used to chase me with a knife and throw various heavy glass items at me, break bottles and use the broken edge to threaten me at my throat. So I know the story.
I told my second husband, the same thing when he asked me to marry him, and he said he would never lay a hand on me and for 15 years he never did. So "power" is from within, and weapons by an abuser can be anything, guns have nothing to do with it, instead its what is the underlying cause of the actual abuse that matters and everyone wants to gloss it over with the gun issue which is irrelevant. I resent this author for her portrayal in showing she knows nothing about the dynamics of abusive relationships and she trivializes it with this gun issue.
I wish people would learn more before speaking about any of it.
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» RE: Having been in an abusive marriage for 5 years, I can speak to the issue above.
Posted by: vangogh69
» Thanks for that, it was hard to do, but I felt it had to be done.
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Having been in an abusive marriage for 5 years, I can speak to the issue above.
Posted by: techphile
» RE: Having been in an abusive marriage for 5 years
Posted by: Sushi
» RE: Having been in an abusive marriage for 5 years, I can speak to the issue above.
Posted by: meetmeineleusis
» RE: Having been in an abusive marriage for 5 years, I can speak to the issue above.
Posted by: scott@alter
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Robba29 on Oct 17, 2006 7:41 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
On a personal level, I used to hunt, still own two shotguns. I do believe there is a place for people owning guns--for hunting (you really want to kill someone--still effective, just not as efficient, oh, well). But there is NEVER any reason to own semi-automatic or automatic assault weapons. It is inexcusable. Background checks and waiting periods should be mandatory!
Ya know, this book could be called Guns and the God Complex--because I think that is the driving pyche: "I have no real power (economic, social, political), but this gun sure makes me feel like I do!"
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» I love it when people who do not own or approve of guns tell those that do what their ....
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: I love it when people who do not own or approve of guns tell those that do what their ....
Posted by: Robba29
» Aaaah, a sociologist, that explains it....... a non science! Well, then you must own the truth.
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Aaaah, a sociologist, that explains it....... a non science! Well, then you must own the truth.
Posted by: Robba29
» Here is your crime statistics in a nation with the most draconian guns control laws in the world.
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Aaaah, a sociologist, that explains it....... a non science! Well, then you must own the truth.
Posted by: vangogh69
» You hit the nail on the head.
Posted by: Cathyblj
» RE: Aaaah, a sociologist, that explains it....... a non science! Well, then you must own the truth.
Posted by: aonghus36
» RE: ight on!
Posted by: Jack Burton
» RE: ight on!
Posted by: Robba29
» RE: ight on!
Posted by: Jack Burton
» RE: ight on!
Posted by: Ktflake
» RE: ight on!
Posted by: Jack Burton
» RE: ight on!
Posted by: Robba29
» RE: ight on! (Part One)
Posted by: Jack Burton
» RE: ight on! (Part Two)
Posted by: Jack Burton
» RE: ight on! (Part Three)
Posted by: Jack Burton
» RE: ight on! (Part Three)
Posted by: Robba29
» RE: ight on! (Part Three)
Posted by: Jack Burton
» I quit reading at "Ruby Ridge"
Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: I quit reading at "Ruby Ridge"
Posted by: Robba29
» RE: I quit reading at "Ruby Ridge"
Posted by: TravisABQ
Comments are closed-
Posted by: faultroy on Oct 17, 2006 9:12 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This article implies that there is a relationship between the gun culture, and domestic violence. Nothing could be further from the truth. And, as proof, please note that the author in the above excerpt gives no statistical information to support this thesis.
As a matter of fact, all of the information is anecdotal.
The reason being that there is no statistical relevance to her assertion.
Also, the author's statement that no pictures were allowed because men were concerned that their wives would be able to identify them for alimony purposes is laughable and
ridiculous!!!
It would be illegal for the courts to even draw any conclusions since they would be hopelessly prejudicing themselves and it would never be accepted by the opposing attorney--he or she would ask the presiding judge to recuse himself or risk being sanctioned upon either appeal or a complaint to the judiciary grievance committee!!
As matter of fact, there are approximately 30 University peer reviewed studies substantiating the charges that women are just as violence prone in domestic violence situations as men.
Given this fact, I am wondering what is the point of this book or the thesis that the author is trying to support?
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» RE: A Very Incompetent Excerpt
Posted by: Robba29
» Wheres your link to those stats, Mr. Social Engineer???
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Wheres your link to those stats, Mr. Social Engineer???
Posted by: Robba29
» Hahaha, the GOVERNMENT SAID SO! Oh, my, I am laughing too hard to....
Posted by: Prophit
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Posted by: albrechtkrausse on Oct 17, 2006 9:17 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Excellent.... I couldn't and haven't said it better. Thanks
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: The problem
Posted by: Ulfhethner
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Soco on Oct 17, 2006 9:19 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The far left can't get it out of their collective heads that not all gun owners are xenophobic, drunken rednecks that abuse their wives. Unstable people kill people. They could do it with a steel pipe. Would you ban steal pipes? Do children that drown in swimming pools mean we should ban swimming pools?
Let's focus these well intentioned but stupid efforts on the greatest priority first. The indiscriminate bombing of people, especially by the US and Israel. Let's take the guns away from the governments of the world, who incidentally make far greater use of guns, warships, bombs and land mines than your ordinary citizen. The Amish have guns, should we take them away from them? Governments are far better at killing than their citizens. Would you disarm them? You would start an ineffective advocacy group to make people "aware" of their suffering, solicit donations from the victims and end up buying executive office furniture with the donations and claim "operating expenses."
People collect guns, beanie babies and baseball cards. True not every needs an automatic rifle, but most don't own them. This is simply being blown out of proportion.
So, America has a population of 300 million now. An extremely small percentage of people commit violent crimes. Out of this number you can most certainly expect something to happen.
What about Switzerland? For starters, this neutral country arms citizens. They don't have the culture of violence we do.
Leave rednecks alone. We are mostly Irish, Scottish, Germans and African-Americans, we built this country and get shit on by the type of rhetoric espoused by feel-good liberal ideology, which is usually nothing but talk. The world is an ugly place and the poor white and black trash bear the brunt of inequality. Lets' tackle education, health care and bringing American Industry back. Foreign labor is bad enough, they don't get paid shit but it's because people are losing jobs here. Desperate people do commit desperate acts. Why don't the true ideals of liberals stay on track with equality and public welfare rather than guns. Solve these issues and guns used for committing violent crimes will drop like failing of a cliff. You'll get far greater results from prevention of these contributing social ills than treating the symptom, gun control.
Why don't you focus on the jackasses who ran Tyco, Enron, Arther Andersen, WorldCom. These are the greatest crooks on the planet. WHITE COLLAR CRIME!
The real problem is both liberals and conservative can't meet in the middle but expect people to follow these stupid ass arguments because they loathe moderates and each carry around the "holier than thou attitude." It's either guns at any cost or no guns at all.
Gun use for self-defense should not be a crime, guns used to commit crimes are and should simply be enforced. This country is harder on drug users than violent criminals, who can kill with anything, in addition to a gun.
Out of all the personal firearms in the US, only a small percentage use them for crimes or violence. Your goody-goody liberal ideology, in the minority, wants guns banned, and if this is in fact a democracy, it's what the majority wants, not the minority.
From one neophyte liberal to another STFU. This is one issue I can't stand within the Liberal mindset.
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» RE: Another reason the far left sucks
Posted by: Cathyblj
» RE: Another reason the far left sucks
Posted by: Jack Burton
» I know, its amazing the stereotypes these people have about who owns guns. I am shocked.
Posted by: Prophit
Comments are closed-
Posted by: vangogh69 on Oct 17, 2006 9:53 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Another thing...I think our society reaches for guns because one, its a simple solution to a complex set of problems (crime, violence, abuse, etc.), and two, because the effects of a gun have been divorced from the image of a gun. People don't (or maybe they do and are so psychopathic) realize the full effects of a bullet firing through a barrel and shreading skin, muscle, veins, and bones. People are not, en masse, exposed to the effects of a bullet traumatizing flesh, ripping apart the body and reducing it to a mound of unrecognizable pulp, which is why I think people are so gun-crazy. It's out of sight, out of mind, just like the shit we flush down our toilets or the trash we set out to be taken to a landfill: we neither contemplate it's end, nor the process by which its taken there. Similarly, if more people spent time in a landfill or saw, up close, a blown apart human body (with brains blown on a wall or some such scene), they'd be less likely to joyously reach for a gun.
My two cents.
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» Do you own a gun??? What expertise do you have to make that statement??? How do you know??
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Gun ownership and trash
Posted by: YogiBear
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Sushi on Oct 17, 2006 10:36 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Guns cause crime like words cause lies.
An angry husband can kill his wife (or ex) with a rock or his bare hands. Banning guns will only make us vulnerable to an out-of-control government gestapo. Remember, the Nazi's grabbed power incrementally, making each case for keeping citizens "safe" by giving up their rights one by one. (Our government is probably keeping our rights in a lock-box like they did our social security...which is now in corporate pockets) One of the first things the gestapo did was to disarm the people so they couldn't fight against getting rounded up and shipped off in box cars. This article is bullshit, probably designed to round up dissenters. See you in the gulags folks!
P.S. I will never vote for a Republican again for as long as I live. (Which might not be too long...)
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» RE: Guns cause crime...
Posted by: techphile
» RE: Guns cause crime...
Posted by: edith
» RE: Guns cause crime...
Posted by: Topaz
» RE: Guns cause crime...
Posted by: Sushi
» RE: Guns cause crime...
Posted by: Topaz
» RE:Correction...
Posted by: Sushi
» Down with the "major" parties
Posted by: edith
» RE: Guns cause crime...
Posted by: FNU LNU
Comments are closed-
Posted by: yellow on Oct 17, 2006 11:32 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Ahhh...to be civilized and educated!!
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» RE: It's The Demographic, Stupid!!
Posted by: Ulfhethner
» RE: It's The Demographic, Stupid!!
Posted by: yellow
» RE: It's The Demographic, Stupid!!
Posted by: Ulfhethner
» RE: It's The Demographic, Stupid!!
Posted by: Ulfhethner
» RE: It's The Demographic, Stupid!!
Posted by: yellow
» RE: It's The Demographic, Stupid!!
Posted by: Ulfhethner
» RE: It's The Demographic, Stupid!!
Posted by: lucille
» RE: It's The Demographic, Stupid!!
Posted by: yellow
Comments are closed-
Posted by: edith on Oct 17, 2006 11:59 AM
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» That time is here
Posted by: VisionQuest
» Having been a victim of abuse, I can tell you there isn't time to go to a judge when.....
Posted by: Prophit
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Posted by: TooDamnCool on Oct 17, 2006 12:01 PM
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» RE: Freud said it best
Posted by: Io
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Posted by: Topaz on Oct 17, 2006 12:41 PM
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Remember people, the right for us to possess guns is absolutely essential. Not just for personal protection, but believe it or not, our country's protection. Would you invade a country where not only the police and military have weapons, but the citizens too? You'd surely think twice about that. Sure, take away our guns. Only then will we know if there really are terrorists out there because they'll be attacking in droves if they knew we can't defend ourselves anymore. Stop blaming the guns and start blaming the nutbag who uses it. Guns don't kill people. People kill people. Guns don't have legs.
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» Hey, I like the idea about the sign in the yard. Once they see how they feel, they will.....
Posted by: Prophit
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Posted by: LDavistrueblue on Oct 17, 2006 12:50 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If you want to protect yourself in a violent world, learn to shoot. Practice. Protect yourself and your kids and for Christsake, stop whining.
here's a good place to find accurate info:
pinkpistols.org/faq.html
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» Yes, and Diane Feinstein purchased a semi-auto for her son and her body guards......
Posted by: Prophit
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Posted by: darkgrrrl on Oct 17, 2006 2:01 PM
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The right to ownership of a particular type of object is paramount; the right to ownership of one's own body in increasingly restricted.
Some people believe that abortion is murder. Reproduction is only one capacity of a woman's body; her body is first and foremost the vessel of her own life. The only capacity of a gun is to inflict physical harm or death, or to threaten same.
Yet people want less control of guns and more control of women.
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» RE: What does it say about us
Posted by: Ulfhethner
» RE: What does it say about us
Posted by: Io
» RE: What does it say about us
Posted by: Sushi
» That is rediculous, I am a woman and a gun owner and I have control of my body!!
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: That is rediculous, I am a woman and a gun owner and I have control of my body!!
Posted by: darkgrrrl
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Posted by: sofla100 on Oct 17, 2006 2:29 PM
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» RE: The REAL problem
Posted by: Jack Burton
» In other words, erase the rights of blacks to protect yours.
Posted by: JoshuaLudd
» Truth and consequences
Posted by: YogiBear
» True, it is not solely caused by poverty, but poverty does set up the situation...
Posted by: JoshuaLudd
» That's a big part of it...
Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: The REAL problem
Posted by: edith
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Posted by: yoursfaithfully on Oct 17, 2006 3:09 PM
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This changes my opinion on Alternet.
However, I read a very chilling letter to the New York Times recently. I went something like "Gun control can't work because there are already too many guns in this country. All we can do is sit back and watch school shooting after school shooting. There is no solution."
I tend to agree. There are so many guns in this country that almost nothing can be done to curb their use and mis-use. Yet I do think we need to try, and we need to convince Americans that guns WILL NOT PROTECT THEM FROM THE GOVERNMENT.
The right to keep a standing militia to keep the government in check was given up when the first battleship was invented. The technology required to effectively combat the United States military has not been made public since the first World War. If Uncle Sam wants every piece of property in Montana, he won't even need to use his massive array of stealth bombers, tanks, and bunker busting bombs. He'll just cut off petroleum, and watch them starve to death. Shotguns and rifles can't possibly protect you from the most powerful army in world history.
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» It's not Power to the People...
Posted by: Aussie Kim
» How many battleships does it take to pacify the Iraqi people?
Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: How many battleships does it take to pacify the Iraqi people?
Posted by: yoursfaithfully
» RE: How many battleships does it take to pacify the Iraqi people?
Posted by: YogiBear
» I'd rather you try to tell that to the Iraqi people who were invaded by a foreign power.
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: I'd rather you try to tell that to the Iraqi people who were invaded by a foreign power.
Posted by: yoursfaithfully
» Who said they kill civilians??? What are you talking about? I am talking about all the ......
Posted by: Prophit
Comments are closed-
Posted by: JoshuaLudd on Oct 17, 2006 3:19 PM
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Habeus Corpus is, today, GONE.
There is still time for change through the system, and I don't believe any violent revolution is, or should be on the imminent horizon... but I feel a whole lot safer knowing that there is an armed populace.
As for domestic violence... well, sad to say... do you prefer your victims stabbed, beaten to death, poisoned, or shot? That is really the only question. The problem isn't the guns... the problem is the people using the guns.
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» RE: Anyone...
Posted by: Robba29
» RE: Anyone...
Posted by: Ulfhethner
» RE: Anyone...
Posted by: Jack Burton
» Don't like it? Then buy a gun. Get your liberal friends to buy guns.
Posted by: JoshuaLudd
» Go for it, buy a gun
Posted by: TravisABQ
» I'm a "liberal". I own a gun, and I know how to use it better than most.
Posted by: JoshuaLudd
» Hah, me too! There are alot more of us out there than people realize, so you can....`
Posted by: Prophit
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Posted by: medstudgeek on Oct 17, 2006 3:53 PM
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» RE: Why CAN'T the woman buy a gun?
Posted by: Sushi
» I WANT EVERYONE HERE WHO HAS NEVER SHOT A GUN TO GO TO A SHOOTING RANGE!
Posted by: JoshuaLudd
» Ask them to do it several times, maybe even for a year so they really get to know them.
Posted by: Prophit
» I wish I could understand how folks who have never shot a gun feel... but I was raised with them.
Posted by: JoshuaLudd
» I know, my husband was a life long gun owner and a Democrat. He also was raised with thim.
Posted by: Prophit
» Guns do seem to be a big part of rural culture
Posted by: medstudgeek
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Posted by: sofla100 on Oct 17, 2006 5:58 PM
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» If they are floating all around, how come I have not seen any?
Posted by: chief of okeefe
» RE:I wish I could find some floating around! I could use a few more!!!
Posted by: Againstthewindwalking
» And where in the world did you ever see that????
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: And where in the world did you ever see that????
Posted by: YogiBear
» Wrong, go read the damn article and find out what it is.
Posted by: Prophit
» Chill out dude
Posted by: YogiBear
Comments are closed-
Posted by: chief of okeefe on Oct 17, 2006 7:25 PM
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Drop the damn gun grabbing stupidity! Gore lost his own home state because of the gun issue alone. This is why that rich-man's fascist Bush is in power!
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» Dean was pro-gun
Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: Dean was pro-gun
Posted by: Jack Burton
» RE: Dean was pro-gun
Posted by: YogiBear
Comments are closed-
Posted by: deborama on Oct 17, 2006 8:26 PM
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Guns cause a lot of problems even if they're not fired.
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» Run stupid!
Posted by: LtL
» RE: un stupid!
Posted by: popsicle67
» RE: un stupid!
Posted by: LtL
» RE: un stupid!
Posted by: Aussie Kim
» Friefighters, too
Posted by: YogiBear
» Another good point, when Bush implements his dictatorship he will be calling on those same....
Posted by: Prophit
» You speaking to me?
Posted by: YogiBear
Comments are closed-
Posted by: popsicle67 on Oct 17, 2006 10:48 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
( a far cry from our marriage ) but I am still unable to regain my right to own a gun. It actually would not be any big deal save for the fact that my father had two antique hunting rifles
and one model 94 Winchester that I really wanted to have for for displaying(one was over a hundred years old) and I could not find any way to keep them legally. I know you might have trouble thinking of guns as a decoration but they were neat to look at and all the old westerns were full of cowboys carrying the model 94 Winchester and I grew up on them so it was never about needing protection or wanting revenge but every question I was asked was about how I felt about my divorce and ex-wife and that was completely irrelevant. So now the guns are somebody else's and I still have my giant red W for wifebeater blazed on my forehead. Shouldn't society have to forgive me if my ex- wife has? How long does society get to spit on me?
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» RE: A view from the darkside
Posted by: yoursfaithfully
» No scum bag
Posted by: LtL
» RE: No scum bag
Posted by: scott@alter
Comments are closed-
Posted by: TravisABQ on Oct 18, 2006 3:42 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Consider this.
At least 40% of American households have at least one gun.
The U.S. has an estimated 228 million firearms legally owned by Americans.
A fraction of a percent is used in violent crime.
I just want to ask all you folks who have been indoctrinated all your life by the media and Hollywood to fear guns and HATE your fellow Americans, just how do you propose to eliminate firearms from America. Never mind the legal issues of repealing the second amendment of the constitution, and passing legislation to make possession, and transfer of firearms a crime.
How do you think you can make 40% of your fellow Americans into criminals, and enforce a gun prohibition? HOW?
Do you want the government to prosecute a war on guns? I remind you that will not be a war on “bad scary guns”, that will be a war waged upon your fellow Americans.
All the police and Federal agents can only make a slight dent in the supply of dangerous drugs entering or manufactured in this country. Firearms are a durable good which can be functional for decades, or even more than a century. Making a gun is so simple that illiterate tribesmen in Pakistan or the Philippines can make a gun with scrap metal and hand tools. America is filled with basement tinkerers, and engineers who have access to modern steel, and power tools. It is not like refining plutonium.
Guns are HERE, in abundance. Wishful thinking will not make them disappear, and I hope you are rational enough to realize that instigating a “gun war” would be a bad idea.
Domestic violence is an awful thing. One can hardly avoid the news stories of a woman who is attacked, raped, or killed whether by a stranger or by a violent ex-boyfriend or ex-husband. In most cases the attacker does not even use a gun. Brutal, violent men often prefer a knife, or a club, or a piece of rope. In most cases, it is just a matter of brute strength, and a 110 pound woman has little chance of winning a fight against a 200 pound man.
Unless she has a gun.
There are violent criminals out there; they have no interest in having a “fair fight”. They mean to HURT, and they mean to win. There are EVIL people out there, and to them, you are just FOOD, oblivious and just waiting to be eaten.
You have probably been indoctrinated to think that “violence never settles anything” or you can “talk your way out of trouble” or some such drivel. Have you ever been in a real life-or-death situation? Have you ever been harmed by an ex-lover or victimized by street crime? Are you so convinced that it can’t possibly happen? Do you want a restrictive law to prohibit you from obtaining or using a gun to save your own life, or the life of your child?
You have the RIGHT to defend yourself. You have the RIGHT to lawfully obtain the best tool for self defense.
I have faith in my fellow Americans, I have faith in YOU, and I think that YOUR life is of immeasurably higher value than a rapist who would kill you.
But the politicians with their bodyguards, the elitist reporters for anti-gun newspapers would rather have criminals succeed in raping women, or murdering elderly people, than allow law abiding citizens the best tools to preserve innocent life.
Do you ever wonder why that is?
Do some study, and think for yourself.
http://www.guncite.com/
http://www.gunfacts.info/
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» RE: Defend yourself
Posted by: yoursfaithfully
» RE: Defend yourself
Posted by: TravisABQ
» RE: Defend yourself
Posted by: scott@alter
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Againstthewindwalking on Oct 18, 2006 12:22 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is beyond idiotic!! What? Everybody wants to defend the First Ammendmant, but ignore the Second? What a crock of shit!!!
Where I live the closest cop is twenty minutes away! My firearms, (all of them!) are twenty inches away from my bed! Why? I"M NOT A FUCKING VICTIM!!!
It's a far better thing to be tried by twelve, than carried by six! And when they come to take ME off to "Camp Halliburton", I'll have something more than stale platitudes and an acoustic guitar to face them with!
If you DON"T have a gun of some sort, then you're not paying attention!!
As far as all the gun-haters out there go; You share 25% of the same genes as an eggplant!! Get over yourselves! If you don't want a gun? Fine! Be a victim!! But don't expect me and my family to!! All because your afraid to face life's challenges as a warrior, and expect the "Boys in Blue" to keep your asses in one piece!
Quit your damned whining! Stand without fear, and YOU WIN!!!
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» RE: nough already!!!!
Posted by: FNU LNU
» The NRA has been coopted. Forget them. Join the GOA!
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: nough already!!!!
Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: nough already!!!!
Posted by: Aussie Kim
» Woooo! Somebody is hot and angry..... Sooo the question is "What are YOU afraid of from...
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: You live in Austraia, and you call the USA a shithole???
Posted by: Againstthewindwalking
» RE: nough already!!!!
Posted by: Soco
Comments are closed-
Posted by: elisabeth on Oct 18, 2006 1:00 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Man, already charged with domestic violence against this woman, shoots her in the back with a rifle in front of her 8 year old child.
Utah is notorious for advocating "gun rights."
linked text
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» And...?
Posted by: Ulfhethner
» RE: And...?
Posted by: Ulfhethner
» RE: And...?
Posted by: morticia
» RE: And...?
Posted by: Ulfhethner
» Elderly couple saved by gun yesterday...
Posted by: Jack Burton
» RE: Utah man shoots girlfriend/mother of 2 in back today
Posted by: Jack Burton
» Exactly!!! If he had decided to kill her he was going to do it regardless of what he used.
Posted by: Prophit
» Ever heard of moderation?
Posted by: elisabeth
» RE: ver heard of moderation?
Posted by: Jack Burton
Comments are closed-
Posted by: zooeyhall on Oct 18, 2006 1:44 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
These young men are bombarded by images of affluence in the media. But the reality is they are faced with no hope and no prospects. Rural America is becoming the United States version of the Gaza Strip.
If only progressives would champion the ECONOMIC causes of the middle-class, they could make some headway. Instead, I have too often seen the Progressive movement (including sites like Alternet) hijacked by what I call the "Lexus Liberals". Thus, we get tomes expounding on gender issues, ethnic identity, organic food, global warming, pro-illegal immigrant articles, etc.
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» Check out the book Crunchy Cons
Posted by: JoshuaLudd
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Posted by: sofla100 on Oct 18, 2006 2:32 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Your pants are down.
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» RE: You need to research the raw numbers
Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: You need to research the raw numbers
Posted by: Ulfhethner
» Duh, they only have a population of 50 million and we have 300 million, Duh, YOUR pants are down.
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Duh - learn to count
Posted by: Aussie Kim
» RE: Duh - note to self - learn HTML
Posted by: Aussie Kim
» Do the math
Posted by: elisabeth
Comments are closed-
Posted by: BurtonLT on Oct 19, 2006 2:55 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As for Lautenberg Amendment, this is as unconstitutional a piece of legislation as you can get. It deprives people of a basic right, that to bear arms, because of a bunch of paranoid feminists and their manginas in Congress.
How about mass acts of civil disobedience in which gun owners refuse to turn in their firearms? What would femi-nazis do about that? Talk about their vaginas?
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Posted by: BurtonLT on Oct 19, 2006 2:55 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As for Lautenberg Amendment, this is as unconstitutional a piece of legislation as you can get. It deprives people of a basic right, that to bear arms, because of a bunch of paranoid feminists and their manginas in Congress.
How about mass acts of civil disobedience in which gun owners refuse to turn in their firearms? What would femi-nazis do about that? Talk about their vaginas?
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Posted by: liberalgunowner on Oct 19, 2006 6:38 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
:)
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» RE: Baloney
Posted by: longlivecheney
» RE: Baloney
Posted by: liberalgunowner
» RE: Baloney
Posted by: Logic's Edge
Comments are closed-
Posted by: scott@alter on Oct 20, 2006 3:18 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Comments are closed-
Posted by: ReallyBearish on Oct 21, 2006 2:19 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hitler didn't have to take the guns away from the SA. He murdered the leadership ("The Night of the Long Knives), and put the rest in the Army.
Now knuckle draggers, don't parade out those phony quotes if you can't verify that they're real.
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» RE: 2nd Amendment knuckle draggers
Posted by: FNU LNU
» RE: 2nd Amendment knuckle draggers
Posted by: YogiBear
Comments are closed-
Posted by: DirtyDave on Dec 6, 2006 7:17 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yet somehow seem to think they get to pick and chose what Constitutional Rights we get to have.
Just how can some self righteous TWIT decide what rights are in my best interests to have?
Get a clue people were causing bodily harm to one another long before guns ,the thinking outlawing them is the cure just shows ignorance.
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Posted by: Smart Woman on Dec 8, 2006 3:26 AM
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» Change the System Part 2
Posted by: Smart Woman
Comments are closed-
Posted by: rsaxto on Oct 17, 2006 12:55 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: never say never
Posted by: Rolomax
» Numbers are telling but common sense must rule the day!
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» If laws should control who gets guns
Posted by: Ellie1
» I take it you have never heard of Nazi Germany, huh?
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: I take it you have never heard of Nazi Germany, huh?
Posted by: aonghus36
» RE: I take it you have never heard of Nazi Germany, huh?
Posted by: wolfdaughter
» Excuse me ??? Another couple of NRA myths ...
Posted by: AdamSelene40
» Oh, really???? So the gov is lying about what happens if there is a red alert???
Posted by: Prophit
» I don't subscribe to the NRA so I have no idea what THEIR MYTHS ARE.
Posted by: Prophit
» That is just fine, you can own guns, I give a shit
Posted by: jwg
» That is a stupid comment, If I stab my significant other with a knife, I should go to friggen...
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: If laws should control who gets guns
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: If laws should control who gets guns
Posted by: Rolomax
» RE: If laws should control who gets guns
Posted by: Jack Burton
» RE: If laws should control who gets guns
Posted by: FilthyMcNasty
» RE: never
Posted by: harris
» RE: never
Posted by: techphile
» RE: never
Posted by: Jack Burton
» RE: never
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: never
Posted by: Jesse
» RE: never
Posted by: Jack Burton
» Pro-choice
Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: Pro-choice
Posted by: Jesse
» RE: Pro-choice
Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: Pro-choice
Posted by: Jack Burton
» RE: Pro-choice
Posted by: Jack Burton
» RE: never
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: never
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: never
Posted by: mick669
» Do you know any gun nuts by name?
Posted by: velvel of atlanta
» RE: Do you know any gun nuts by name?
Posted by: rsaxto
» RE: Do you know any gun nuts by name?
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Do you know any gun nuts by name?
Posted by: Jack Burton
» RE: Do you know any gun nuts by name?
Posted by: longlivecheney
Comments are closed-
Posted by: LeftWright on Oct 17, 2006 1:43 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
No one needs semi-automatic weapons. These are not for hunting or legitimate self-protection.
Handguns can be kept in local armories incorporated into police stations. Handguns are much more likely to kill the owners or someone the owner knows and cares about. Handgun violence is an epidemic in American cities and must be stopped.
We must reject the absurd fallacy that gun control will lead to gun elimination.
Target shooting is noisy, but fun.
The truth shall set you free. Love is the only way forward.
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» RE: Support the Second Amendment
Posted by: Jack Burton
» So there! (with tongue stickin' out)
Posted by: texshelters
» RE: So there! (with tongue stickin' out)
Posted by: Jack Burton
» RE: Support the Second Amendment
Posted by: Artkansas
» RE: Support the Second Amendment
Posted by: harris
» LeftWright--you have a sweet disposition
Posted by: LDavistrueblue
» Dang tricky liberal
Posted by: texshelters
» RE: Dang tricky liberal
Posted by: Jack Burton
» RE: Dang tricky liberal
Posted by: Robba29
» RE: Dang tricky liberal
Posted by: Jack Burton
» RE: Dang tricky liberal
Posted by: Robba29
» RE: Dang tricky liberal
Posted by: Jack Burton
» RE: Dang tricky liberal: Ooo, name callin'. that's smart
Posted by: texshelters
» RE: Dang tricky liberal: Ooo, name callin'. that's smart
Posted by: Robba29
» RE: Dang tricky liberal: Ooo, name callin'. that's smart
Posted by: Jack Burton
» RE: Dang tricky liberal: Yes all liberals are anti-gunners, as we all know
Posted by: texshelters
» RE: Dang tricky liberal: Yes all liberals are anti-gunners, as we all know
Posted by: Robba29
» RE: Dang tricky liberal: Yes all liberals are anti-gunners, as we all know
Posted by: Jack Burton
» High Caliber
Posted by: YogiBear
» High Caliber-- LeftWright's argument is shakier than a french-kissed altarboy
Posted by: LDavistrueblue
» Support the Second Amendment
Posted by: YogiBear
» Guns in the Home and the Myth of Self-Defense OR when facts get in the way (part1)
Posted by: LeftWright
» ..when facts get in the way (part deux)
Posted by: LDavistrueblue
» I run, and I'm fast too (LOL)
Posted by: LeftWright
» Speaking of facts...
Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: Guns in the Home and the Myth of Self-Defense OR when facts get in the way (part1)
Posted by: Jack Burton
» RE: Support the Second Amendment
Posted by: FNU LNU
» RE: Support the Second Amendment
Posted by: FilthyMcNasty
» RE: Support the Second Amendment
Posted by: patriotswrath
Comments are closed-
Posted by: mah_favorite_flavor_cherry_red on Oct 17, 2006 3:29 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is article is just another in an endless stream of overclass-friendly propaganda generated by the FakeLeft.
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» RE: this kind of male bashing drives males away from the Left. And it is calculated to do that...
Posted by: Paul D
» RE: this kind of male bashing drives males away from the Left. And it is calculated to do that...
Posted by: harris
» RE: this kind of male bashing drives males away from the Left. And it is calculated to do that...
Posted by: sln70
» Change the channel
Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: this kind of male bashing drives males away from the Left. And it is calculated to do that...
Posted by: harris
» Oh please . . .
Posted by: VisionQuest
» PLEASE EVERYONE IGNORE THE ISSUE OF DOMESTIC VIOLENCE
Posted by: texshelters
» RE: this kind of male bashing OH PLEASE> IT'S ABOUT WOMEN NOT MEN
Posted by: maribelle
» RE: this kind of male bashing OH PLEASE> IT'S ABOUT WOMEN NOT MEN
Posted by: Jack Burton
Comments are closed-
Posted by: maxpayne on Oct 17, 2006 3:35 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Through years of right-wing radio brain washing, the R's convinced the NRA members that to protect the Constitution from evildoers, we might have to gloss over some of the pesky parts, the Bill of Rights (except for #2), balance of powers, etc. So these red staters are now primed and ready for a major "terrorist" attack to occur (backed by Iran this time), and are more than willing to see the Constitution suspended and the elections of '08 cancelled, with Bush declared de facto Caesar.
So instead of the NRA folks using their firepower to prevent a national coupe, they have been conned into supporting the coupe.
Brilliant!
Democrats will have no say in this seizing of power, since liberals don't own guns, 'cause they're yucky. It will be Limbaugh listeners and National Guardsmen on one side, and well-armed gang bangers and criminals on the other, with quivering tree huggin' hippies quaking in their Birkenstocks and wetting themselves in the middle.
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» Finally, a correct analysis of what will go down. Just check out Britian and Australia.
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Finally, a correct analysis of what will go down. Just check out Britian and Australia.
Posted by: polyquat50
» Violent crime in America is decreasing. Here read this.......
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: The Constitution especially the Bill of Rights except for the 2nd Amendment is already being BUR
Posted by: Gentlewoman
» I just said the same thing in a post below..... there are plenty of dems who own guns.
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: The Constitution especially the Bill of Rights except for the 2nd Amendment is already being BUR
Posted by: aonghus36
» RE: The Constitution especially the Bill of Rights except for the 2nd Amendment is already being BURNED!
Posted by: Jack Burton
» Nice handle
Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: Nice handle
Posted by: Jack Burton
» Oh, dear, which shall I choose? Go with the immature democrats or the nazi Repubs???
Posted by: Prophit
» so you trust the government to do what?
Posted by: velvel of atlanta
» RE: The Constitution especially the Bill of Rights except for the 2nd Amendment is already being BURNED!
Posted by: FilthyMcNasty
Comments are closed-
Posted by: willie.horton on Oct 17, 2006 3:39 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We also have a close friend -- a New Jersey attorney -- who is unjustly victimized by those laws. His ex-wife constantly makes trouble for him, even threatening to falsely accuse him of molesting her daughter (he has that one on tape). Like me, he isn't capable of harming a woman... but that hasn't stopped her from filing a series of complaints and restraining orders against him. His guns have spent so much time in police lockers that he jokes with the cops, asking him to take them to the target range once in a while.
Here in Delaware, concealed carry permits rewuire exensive training and background checks, and are only issued subject to the discretion of a panel of judges... unless the applicant is a woman with a restraining order against a man, in which case they are issued automatically. This makes sense. Giving an abuse victim the power to defend herself, instead of a cell phone to call 911, may save her life... and definitely acts as a deterrent to her abuser, since most wifebeaters are truly cowards who fear having .38-caliber holes punched in their oh-so-manly chests.
As for those who want to take all the guns away from everyone (apparently, they're up early): great idea. Let's hire enough cops to protect everyone in real time, so they won't need to defend themselves. We'll need to deputize, oh, half the population? Bush would love it...
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» RE: In favor of guns, and of the domestic violence laws
Posted by: tlCampbell
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Posted by: maxpayne on Oct 17, 2006 3:43 AM
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» So true indeed. Just look at the glaring DOUBLE STANDARDS in privacy rights between guns and p2p !
Posted by: SDres11
» RE: Moreover, ever notice how the entertainment industries & the gun lobbyists make strange bedfellows ?
Posted by: Jack Burton
Comments are closed-
Posted by: JP2 on Oct 17, 2006 3:46 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think the relationship it's not the one of the male with the guns oppressing the female (as this article seems to imply) nor the one of the whites with the guns oppressing the blacks or the blacks with the guns oppressing the whites and so forth.
I think the relationship is between paranoia and guns. Paranoia reaches for the gun, and the gun, which is so powerful, creates more paranoia.
Ethics was invented by men who felt they themselves had too much power, and got scared of the too much power they had.
In the relationship between guns and paranoia ethics are usually absent, which is why the feeling of power gets so strong that it always turns into paranoia and never into ethics. Or something like that.
Still, while I always despised guns because I imagined them as tools to kill animals or to commit crimes against defenceless people or to fight unjust wars, I cannot forget that guns, and weapons in general, are necessary if you need to fight your armed oppressor.
Che Guevara had a gun, after all.
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» RE: Part of the little I understand of it
Posted by: Jack Burton
» RE: Part of the little I understand of it
Posted by: JP2
» RE: Part of the little I understand of it
Posted by: outsidea
» RE: Part of the little I understand of it
Posted by: JP2
» RE: Part of the little I understand of it
Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: Part of the little I understand of it
Posted by: JP2
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Abushite on Oct 17, 2006 4:55 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Do they understand that the guns are merely coming with militia to protect the constitution ? Don't they understand that this militia was called up in a time of emergency?
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» RE: School Children
Posted by: binkey
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Posted by: gellero on Oct 17, 2006 4:57 AM
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» RE: People who hate guns
Posted by: aonghus36
» RE: People who hate guns
Posted by: texshelters
» RE: People who hate guns
Posted by: Jack Burton
» RE: People who hate guns
Posted by: texshelters
» RE: People who hate guns
Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: People who hate guns
Posted by: Jack Burton
» RE: People who hate guns
Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: People who hate guns
Posted by: tlCampbell
» RE: People who hate guns
Posted by: Jack Burton
» RE: People who hate guns
Posted by: tlCampbell
» RE: People who hate guns
Posted by: Jack Burton
» RE: People who hate guns
Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: People who hate guns
Posted by: tlCampbell
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Posted by: patagonianomore on Oct 17, 2006 5:16 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Back in 1999 or 2000, Stan Grossfeld, Associate Editor of the Boston Globe and Pulitzer Prize winning photographer did a special report on gun shows and the organizers of this one gun show, let him in and take pictures. It was one of the only times any gun show did such a thing. What's interesting was his wife was the Co-producer of the the Oscar-award winning documentary, Defending Our Lives, a documentary on the Framingham 8. The Framingham 8 were a group of 8 women from Massachusetts living in abusive relationships who murdered their husbands because their lives were at risk. It's a very moving short documentary and an excellent tool for educating anybody on the roots of domestic violence.
Interesting coincidence.
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» RE: An important link is empahsized
Posted by: YogiBear
» Oscar
Posted by: Donna_Darko
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Posted by: SDres11 on Oct 17, 2006 6:03 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Moreover, notice how the NRA and most of the gun lobbyists OPENLY and SILENTLY work with the commercial dwellers and the bought off politicians to restrict hunters at every angle while at the same time permitting environmental DESTRUCTION !
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» RE: Guns sure don't protect us South Dakota residents from elite business hostile takeovers !
Posted by: aonghus36
» RE: Guns sure don't protect us South Dakota residents from elite business hostile takeovers !
Posted by: mizkaye
» Small arms vs. tanks
Posted by: YogiBear
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Posted by: Julia Cat on Oct 17, 2006 6:11 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: terrific article
Posted by: questionthemark1
» RE: terrific article
Posted by: Cathyblj
» RE: terrific article
Posted by: questionthemark1
» Domestic violence
Posted by: BlueTigress
» RE: terrific article
Posted by: jessicajessica
» RE: terrific article
Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: terrific article
Posted by: maribelle
» In their place
Posted by: YogiBear
Comments are closed-
Posted by: AdamSelene40 on Oct 17, 2006 6:25 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
My suspicion is that none of it: guns, race, uppish women is really matters to the NRA. These are simply issues that will persuade poorer men with grievances to support richer men with agendas.
It's sure not about protecting my 'right' to own or use firearms. The NRA is spectacularly ineffective at that. Oh, from time to time they use their ENORMOUS political clout to quash a particularly stupid "ugly gun law" ... but when it comes to drafting legislation that would both secure access to guns, and protect society from the more predictable misuse of guns -- the NRA is MIA.
What MIGHT work is the sort of scheme that makes AUTOMOBILE technology available to the broad masses: an elaborate regulatory bureacracy supported by fees and taxes paid by motorists. If the NRA had been a supporter of 'car rights,' a few rich guys would still be driving expensive cars on private motorways and the rest of us would be riding donkeys and bicycles. Instead, there is a working social contract between pedestrians and motorists; because vehicles and drivers are registered, regulated, insured, and kept track of ... pretty much anyone who wants a vehicle can have a vehicle.
Nor oes the NRA promote technological innovation for non-milititary firearms. In fact: the NRA was instrumental in 'persuading' the industry NOT to persue the "one man gun" technology. This idea was to build a gun that could be programmed to fire only in the hand of it's owner. This would be a handgun that could be left loaded in the bedside table, without fear the kids, (or the burgler) would be able to shoot with it.
Part of the problem is that there isn't a problem: local authorities have been enacting gun control laws since the 1820s; by and large these laws have been sensible and practical; citizens have had access to the guns they wanted and needed; the authorities have had tools by which to manage those people who shouldn't be trusted with guns ... and to make a long story short: with more than 300 million firearms in circulation suprisingly few of them are used for crime, domestic abuse, or suicide.
Yet the NRA is a powerful lobbying organization ... but for what exactly remains a bit of a mystery.
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» RE: NRA -- It's the POLITICS, stupid!
Posted by: faultroy
» RE: NRA -- It's the POLITICS, stupid!
Posted by: outsidea
» RE: NRA -- It's the POLITICS, stupid!
Posted by: FilthyMcNasty
» RE: NRA -- It's the POLITICS, stupid!
Posted by: Jack Burton
» RE: NRA -- It's the POLITICS, stupid!
Posted by: YogiBear
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Steve Adair on Oct 17, 2006 6:26 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Which leaves me to wonder
Posted by: catnapping
» RE: Which leaves me to wonder
Posted by: aonghus36
» RE: There's one thing I'm sure of...
Posted by: texshelters
» RE: There's one thing I'm sure of...
Posted by: Jack Burton
» Give them an inch...
Posted by: YogiBear
Comments are closed-
Posted by: ABetterFuture on Oct 17, 2006 6:34 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Wouldn't that help society! Wouldn't we form a modern utopia without all those ridiculous, stupid camo-wearing duck slaughterers.
Woo-hoot! They're either with us or against us! Get me onboard! Where do I sign up?
Not. You folks out there in citizen-control mode are doing your so-called liberal ideals a disservice. Go join your idealological compatriots and picket an abortion clinic or something.
On second thought, I invite you to consider just leaving honest people alone.
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» RE: xactly! How can our Righteous Government ever trust an armed citizenry?
Posted by: Ulfhethner
» On the contrary, gun control has a role!
Posted by: ABetterFuture
» RE: xactly! How can our Righteous Government ever trust an armed citizenry?
Posted by: YogiBear
» An armed citizenry CANNOT be trusted ...
Posted by: AdamSelene40
» Methinks that by the time you trust the Congresscritters and the Grand Poobah...
Posted by: ABetterFuture
» Control does not mean disarmament
Posted by: TennMom
» Gun ownership is not a "conservative" value. It is a decidedly liberal one.
Posted by: ABetterFuture
» RE: Gun ownership is not a "conservative" value. It is a decidedly liberal one.
Posted by: TennMom
» Hmmm...2: STILL Gun ownership is not a "conservative" value. It is a decidedly liberal one.
Posted by: ABetterFuture
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Persephone8 on Oct 17, 2006 6:57 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am a believer in The Constitution The Bill of Rights and our inalienable rights.
The saying that "guns don't kill people. People kill people"
may have a deeper resonance.
This article, while complex, well researched and fascinating
feels like the writer is mixing metaphors.
I am not neccessarily FOR the NRA, and I do not believe in hunting. I do believe that historically, when societies were
disarmed, people lost their rights to properties, civil liberties
and freedom.
The saddest part of all is that people do not need guns to committ domestic violence.When a person is pathologicaly violent- and the intent is to harm or kill - an iron crobar,
broken bottle, knife or hand is as effective as a gun.
If this article is really about domestic violence, then it really isn't just about guns, or who own them.
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» RE: Guns, Violence and Rights
Posted by: Hairog
» RE: Guns, Violence and Rights
Posted by: Jack Burton
» RE: Guns, Violence and Rights, what can you expect?
Posted by: symcokid
Comments are closed-
Posted by: pcushniesr on Oct 17, 2006 7:00 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The truth is that manliness is not rooted in the crotch and respect does not come from the barrel of a gun.
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» OH, GIVE ME A BREAK. A mans passion for guns is rooted in his cultural background.
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: OH, GIVE ME A BREAK. A mans passion for guns is rooted in his cultural background.
Posted by: vangogh69
» RE: Penis Size Syndrome
Posted by: Jack Burton
» RE: Penis Size Syndrome
Posted by: aonghus36
» Thank you, its nice to hear someone else say that.
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Penis Size Syndrome
Posted by: TravisABQ
» my study indicates
Posted by: LDavistrueblue
» RE: Penis Size Syndrome
Posted by: scott@alter
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Posted by: pcushniesr on Oct 17, 2006 7:05 AM
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» HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
Posted by: pcushniesr
Comments are closed-
Posted by: hncarp00 on Oct 17, 2006 7:09 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» It's not about hunting.
Posted by: catnapping
» RE: It's not about hunting.
Posted by: Cathyblj
» RE: It's not about hunting.
Posted by: catnapping
» There are already guns at every corner by the powerfuls minions, its just us they want....
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Does the Right to Arms Include Nuclear Weapons?
Posted by: albrechtkrausse
» RE: Does the Right to Arms Include Nuclear Weapons?
Posted by: Jack Burton
» RE: Does the Right to Arms Include Nuclear Weapons?
Posted by: Robba29
» RE: Does the Right to Arms Include Nuclear Weapons?
Posted by: Jack Burton
» Yup
Posted by: edith
» Automatic response
Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: Does the Right to Arms Include Nuclear Weapons?
Posted by: scott@alter
Comments are closed-
Posted by: catnapping on Oct 17, 2006 7:10 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
My husband and I owned several...several weapons...and never in his life did he EVER touch me in a violent manner...or even threaten to.
Consider this folks - it's small arms that are helping Iraq's Freedom Fighters hold off US invaders/rapists.
The second amendment is one of our Bill of Rights. These were additions to the Constitution made to HOLD OFF TYRANNY. If you think Bush has Nazified our country NOW...just think how bad off we'd be if he and his henchmen didn't have to worry about us Patriots out here with our unregistered rifles, pistols, and revolvers?
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» Thank you, thank you, thank you!!!! REad Lori Price on CLG and what they are recommending....
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Oh good lord!
Posted by: thehousedog
» RE: Oh good lord!
Posted by: Ellie1
» Oh, please, I wouldn't want you to hurt your head by "thinking".
Posted by: Prophit
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Ulfhethner on Oct 17, 2006 7:12 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Don't confuse the two.
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» The NRA considers Feds "jackbooted thugs."
Posted by: catnapping
» So do I!!!!
Posted by: Prophit
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Arvy on Oct 17, 2006 7:21 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
1) In the USA, how many crimes are prevented by American citizens using their guns (whether crimes against themselves or others) every year?
2) Did Jesus use weapons or encourage their use? If not, then:
3) Should people who put their faith in guns come clean and admit they are not christians, even if they'd like to be.
Thanks.
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» RE: From Britain
Posted by: Ulfhethner
» I take it your not a Christian??? Jesus said there are times when you must trade in your....
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: From Britain
Posted by: Arvy
» In fact, violent crime in Britian went up after your full gun control was implemented.
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: In fact, violent crime in Britian went up after your full gun control was implemented.
Posted by: Arvy
» Aaah, projecting, a nice habit for control freaks.
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: From Britain
Posted by: Jack Burton
» RE: From Britain
Posted by: Colin
» RE: From Britain
Posted by: Arvy
» RE: From Britain
Posted by: Ulfhethner
» RE: From Britain
Posted by: Arvy
» Aaaah, but the difference is the powered elite did that exporting, not the average Brit....
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Aaaah, but the difference is the powered elite did that exporting, not the average Brit....
Posted by: Arvy
» Ahahahaha, every chance I get........ you can keep your royalty and all their perversion!!!!
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Ahahahaha, every chance I get........ you can keep your royalty and all their perversion!!!!
Posted by: Arvy
» Still avoiding answering about that BBC Article that shows Brits crime stats rose 35% after gun....
Posted by: Prophit
» What about the Blair witch?
Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: From Britain
Posted by: Ulfhethner
» RE: From Britain
Posted by: Steve Adair
» RE: From Britain
Posted by: Jack Burton
» RE: From Britain
Posted by: aonghus36
» RE: From Britain
Posted by: Jack Burton
» RE: From Britain
Posted by: binkey
» RE: From Britain
Posted by: Arvy
» Speaking of Britain
Posted by: YogiBear
» Hahahaa, boy I am getting in some good laughs. Thanks, YogiBear!!!
Posted by: Prophit
» People can't see the future
Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: From Britain
Posted by: scott@alter
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Ellie1 on Oct 17, 2006 7:31 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» We are suggesting you get your head out of your butt and listen up.....
Posted by: Prophit
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Prophit on Oct 17, 2006 7:38 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
One day, I got so tired of it, that I finally decided I didn't care anymore what happened to me and I was no longer AFRAID. Because of that I had the courage to tell him AS HE RAISED HIS FIST TO BEAT ME AGAIN, that he should wait a second before he hit me because there was something he should know before he hit me. Here is what I told him as he stood with his fist raised..... (this is a direct quote as I will never forget the power I found that day)
"If you hit me again, you better kill me, because if you don't when you go to sleep, I will kill you. Now, go ahead!" Something in my voice made him stop and think...... he held his hand up there for over 30 seconds and put it down and walked away. For a solid year after that he never hit me again. I finally divorced him. He used to chase me with a knife and throw various heavy glass items at me, break bottles and use the broken edge to threaten me at my throat. So I know the story.
I told my second husband, the same thing when he asked me to marry him, and he said he would never lay a hand on me and for 15 years he never did. So "power" is from within, and weapons by an abuser can be anything, guns have nothing to do with it, instead its what is the underlying cause of the actual abuse that matters and everyone wants to gloss it over with the gun issue which is irrelevant. I resent this author for her portrayal in showing she knows nothing about the dynamics of abusive relationships and she trivializes it with this gun issue.
I wish people would learn more before speaking about any of it.
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» RE: Having been in an abusive marriage for 5 years, I can speak to the issue above.
Posted by: vangogh69
» Thanks for that, it was hard to do, but I felt it had to be done.
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Having been in an abusive marriage for 5 years, I can speak to the issue above.
Posted by: techphile
» RE: Having been in an abusive marriage for 5 years
Posted by: Sushi
» RE: Having been in an abusive marriage for 5 years, I can speak to the issue above.
Posted by: meetmeineleusis
» RE: Having been in an abusive marriage for 5 years, I can speak to the issue above.
Posted by: scott@alter
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Robba29 on Oct 17, 2006 7:41 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
On a personal level, I used to hunt, still own two shotguns. I do believe there is a place for people owning guns--for hunting (you really want to kill someone--still effective, just not as efficient, oh, well). But there is NEVER any reason to own semi-automatic or automatic assault weapons. It is inexcusable. Background checks and waiting periods should be mandatory!
Ya know, this book could be called Guns and the God Complex--because I think that is the driving pyche: "I have no real power (economic, social, political), but this gun sure makes me feel like I do!"
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» I love it when people who do not own or approve of guns tell those that do what their ....
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: I love it when people who do not own or approve of guns tell those that do what their ....
Posted by: Robba29
» Aaaah, a sociologist, that explains it....... a non science! Well, then you must own the truth.
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Aaaah, a sociologist, that explains it....... a non science! Well, then you must own the truth.
Posted by: Robba29
» Here is your crime statistics in a nation with the most draconian guns control laws in the world.
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Aaaah, a sociologist, that explains it....... a non science! Well, then you must own the truth.
Posted by: vangogh69
» You hit the nail on the head.
Posted by: Cathyblj
» RE: Aaaah, a sociologist, that explains it....... a non science! Well, then you must own the truth.
Posted by: aonghus36
» RE: ight on!
Posted by: Jack Burton
» RE: ight on!
Posted by: Robba29
» RE: ight on!
Posted by: Jack Burton
» RE: ight on!
Posted by: Ktflake
» RE: ight on!
Posted by: Jack Burton
» RE: ight on!
Posted by: Robba29
» RE: ight on! (Part One)
Posted by: Jack Burton
» RE: ight on! (Part Two)
Posted by: Jack Burton
» RE: ight on! (Part Three)
Posted by: Jack Burton
» RE: ight on! (Part Three)
Posted by: Robba29
» RE: ight on! (Part Three)
Posted by: Jack Burton
» I quit reading at "Ruby Ridge"
Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: I quit reading at "Ruby Ridge"
Posted by: Robba29
» RE: I quit reading at "Ruby Ridge"
Posted by: TravisABQ
Comments are closed-
Posted by: faultroy on Oct 17, 2006 9:12 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This article implies that there is a relationship between the gun culture, and domestic violence. Nothing could be further from the truth. And, as proof, please note that the author in the above excerpt gives no statistical information to support this thesis.
As a matter of fact, all of the information is anecdotal.
The reason being that there is no statistical relevance to her assertion.
Also, the author's statement that no pictures were allowed because men were concerned that their wives would be able to identify them for alimony purposes is laughable and
ridiculous!!!
It would be illegal for the courts to even draw any conclusions since they would be hopelessly prejudicing themselves and it would never be accepted by the opposing attorney--he or she would ask the presiding judge to recuse himself or risk being sanctioned upon either appeal or a complaint to the judiciary grievance committee!!
As matter of fact, there are approximately 30 University peer reviewed studies substantiating the charges that women are just as violence prone in domestic violence situations as men.
Given this fact, I am wondering what is the point of this book or the thesis that the author is trying to support?
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» RE: A Very Incompetent Excerpt
Posted by: Robba29
» Wheres your link to those stats, Mr. Social Engineer???
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Wheres your link to those stats, Mr. Social Engineer???
Posted by: Robba29
» Hahaha, the GOVERNMENT SAID SO! Oh, my, I am laughing too hard to....
Posted by: Prophit
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Posted by: albrechtkrausse on Oct 17, 2006 9:17 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Excellent.... I couldn't and haven't said it better. Thanks
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: The problem
Posted by: Ulfhethner
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Soco on Oct 17, 2006 9:19 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The far left can't get it out of their collective heads that not all gun owners are xenophobic, drunken rednecks that abuse their wives. Unstable people kill people. They could do it with a steel pipe. Would you ban steal pipes? Do children that drown in swimming pools mean we should ban swimming pools?
Let's focus these well intentioned but stupid efforts on the greatest priority first. The indiscriminate bombing of people, especially by the US and Israel. Let's take the guns away from the governments of the world, who incidentally make far greater use of guns, warships, bombs and land mines than your ordinary citizen. The Amish have guns, should we take them away from them? Governments are far better at killing than their citizens. Would you disarm them? You would start an ineffective advocacy group to make people "aware" of their suffering, solicit donations from the victims and end up buying executive office furniture with the donations and claim "operating expenses."
People collect guns, beanie babies and baseball cards. True not every needs an automatic rifle, but most don't own them. This is simply being blown out of proportion.
So, America has a population of 300 million now. An extremely small percentage of people commit violent crimes. Out of this number you can most certainly expect something to happen.
What about Switzerland? For starters, this neutral country arms citizens. They don't have the culture of violence we do.
Leave rednecks alone. We are mostly Irish, Scottish, Germans and African-Americans, we built this country and get shit on by the type of rhetoric espoused by feel-good liberal ideology, which is usually nothing but talk. The world is an ugly place and the poor white and black trash bear the brunt of inequality. Lets' tackle education, health care and bringing American Industry back. Foreign labor is bad enough, they don't get paid shit but it's because people are losing jobs here. Desperate people do commit desperate acts. Why don't the true ideals of liberals stay on track with equality and public welfare rather than guns. Solve these issues and guns used for committing violent crimes will drop like failing of a cliff. You'll get far greater results from prevention of these contributing social ills than treating the symptom, gun control.
Why don't you focus on the jackasses who ran Tyco, Enron, Arther Andersen, WorldCom. These are the greatest crooks on the planet. WHITE COLLAR CRIME!
The real problem is both liberals and conservative can't meet in the middle but expect people to follow these stupid ass arguments because they loathe moderates and each carry around the "holier than thou attitude." It's either guns at any cost or no guns at all.
Gun use for self-defense should not be a crime, guns used to commit crimes are and should simply be enforced. This country is harder on drug users than violent criminals, who can kill with anything, in addition to a gun.
Out of all the personal firearms in the US, only a small percentage use them for crimes or violence. Your goody-goody liberal ideology, in the minority, wants guns banned, and if this is in fact a democracy, it's what the majority wants, not the minority.
From one neophyte liberal to another STFU. This is one issue I can't stand within the Liberal mindset.
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» RE: Another reason the far left sucks
Posted by: Cathyblj
» RE: Another reason the far left sucks
Posted by: Jack Burton
» I know, its amazing the stereotypes these people have about who owns guns. I am shocked.
Posted by: Prophit
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Posted by: vangogh69 on Oct 17, 2006 9:53 AM
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Another thing...I think our society reaches for guns because one, its a simple solution to a complex set of problems (crime, violence, abuse, etc.), and two, because the effects of a gun have been divorced from the image of a gun. People don't (or maybe they do and are so psychopathic) realize the full effects of a bullet firing through a barrel and shreading skin, muscle, veins, and bones. People are not, en masse, exposed to the effects of a bullet traumatizing flesh, ripping apart the body and reducing it to a mound of unrecognizable pulp, which is why I think people are so gun-crazy. It's out of sight, out of mind, just like the shit we flush down our toilets or the trash we set out to be taken to a landfill: we neither contemplate it's end, nor the process by which its taken there. Similarly, if more people spent time in a landfill or saw, up close, a blown apart human body (with brains blown on a wall or some such scene), they'd be less likely to joyously reach for a gun.
My two cents.
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» Do you own a gun??? What expertise do you have to make that statement??? How do you know??
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Gun ownership and trash
Posted by: YogiBear
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Sushi on Oct 17, 2006 10:36 AM
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Guns cause crime like words cause lies.
An angry husband can kill his wife (or ex) with a rock or his bare hands. Banning guns will only make us vulnerable to an out-of-control government gestapo. Remember, the Nazi's grabbed power incrementally, making each case for keeping citizens "safe" by giving up their rights one by one. (Our government is probably keeping our rights in a lock-box like they did our social security...which is now in corporate pockets) One of the first things the gestapo did was to disarm the people so they couldn't fight against getting rounded up and shipped off in box cars. This article is bullshit, probably designed to round up dissenters. See you in the gulags folks!
P.S. I will never vote for a Republican again for as long as I live. (Which might not be too long...)
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» RE: Guns cause crime...
Posted by: techphile
» RE: Guns cause crime...
Posted by: edith
» RE: Guns cause crime...
Posted by: Topaz
» RE: Guns cause crime...
Posted by: Sushi
» RE: Guns cause crime...
Posted by: Topaz
» RE:Correction...
Posted by: Sushi
» Down with the "major" parties
Posted by: edith
» RE: Guns cause crime...
Posted by: FNU LNU
Comments are closed-
Posted by: yellow on Oct 17, 2006 11:32 AM
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Ahhh...to be civilized and educated!!
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» RE: It's The Demographic, Stupid!!
Posted by: Ulfhethner
» RE: It's The Demographic, Stupid!!
Posted by: yellow
» RE: It's The Demographic, Stupid!!
Posted by: Ulfhethner
» RE: It's The Demographic, Stupid!!
Posted by: Ulfhethner
» RE: It's The Demographic, Stupid!!
Posted by: yellow
» RE: It's The Demographic, Stupid!!
Posted by: Ulfhethner
» RE: It's The Demographic, Stupid!!
Posted by: lucille
» RE: It's The Demographic, Stupid!!
Posted by: yellow
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Posted by: edith on Oct 17, 2006 11:59 AM
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» That time is here
Posted by: VisionQuest
» Having been a victim of abuse, I can tell you there isn't time to go to a judge when.....
Posted by: Prophit
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Posted by: TooDamnCool on Oct 17, 2006 12:01 PM
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» RE: Freud said it best
Posted by: Io
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Posted by: Topaz on Oct 17, 2006 12:41 PM
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Remember people, the right for us to possess guns is absolutely essential. Not just for personal protection, but believe it or not, our country's protection. Would you invade a country where not only the police and military have weapons, but the citizens too? You'd surely think twice about that. Sure, take away our guns. Only then will we know if there really are terrorists out there because they'll be attacking in droves if they knew we can't defend ourselves anymore. Stop blaming the guns and start blaming the nutbag who uses it. Guns don't kill people. People kill people. Guns don't have legs.
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» Hey, I like the idea about the sign in the yard. Once they see how they feel, they will.....
Posted by: Prophit
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Posted by: LDavistrueblue on Oct 17, 2006 12:50 PM
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If you want to protect yourself in a violent world, learn to shoot. Practice. Protect yourself and your kids and for Christsake, stop whining.
here's a good place to find accurate info:
pinkpistols.org/faq.html
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» Yes, and Diane Feinstein purchased a semi-auto for her son and her body guards......
Posted by: Prophit
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Posted by: darkgrrrl on Oct 17, 2006 2:01 PM
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The right to ownership of a particular type of object is paramount; the right to ownership of one's own body in increasingly restricted.
Some people believe that abortion is murder. Reproduction is only one capacity of a woman's body; her body is first and foremost the vessel of her own life. The only capacity of a gun is to inflict physical harm or death, or to threaten same.
Yet people want less control of guns and more control of women.
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» RE: What does it say about us
Posted by: Ulfhethner
» RE: What does it say about us
Posted by: Io
» RE: What does it say about us
Posted by: Sushi
» That is rediculous, I am a woman and a gun owner and I have control of my body!!
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: That is rediculous, I am a woman and a gun owner and I have control of my body!!
Posted by: darkgrrrl
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Posted by: sofla100 on Oct 17, 2006 2:29 PM
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» RE: The REAL problem
Posted by: Jack Burton
» In other words, erase the rights of blacks to protect yours.
Posted by: JoshuaLudd
» Truth and consequences
Posted by: YogiBear
» True, it is not solely caused by poverty, but poverty does set up the situation...
Posted by: JoshuaLudd
» That's a big part of it...
Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: The REAL problem
Posted by: edith
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Posted by: yoursfaithfully on Oct 17, 2006 3:09 PM
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This changes my opinion on Alternet.
However, I read a very chilling letter to the New York Times recently. I went something like "Gun control can't work because there are already too many guns in this country. All we can do is sit back and watch school shooting after school shooting. There is no solution."
I tend to agree. There are so many guns in this country that almost nothing can be done to curb their use and mis-use. Yet I do think we need to try, and we need to convince Americans that guns WILL NOT PROTECT THEM FROM THE GOVERNMENT.
The right to keep a standing militia to keep the government in check was given up when the first battleship was invented. The technology required to effectively combat the United States military has not been made public since the first World War. If Uncle Sam wants every piece of property in Montana, he won't even need to use his massive array of stealth bombers, tanks, and bunker busting bombs. He'll just cut off petroleum, and watch them starve to death. Shotguns and rifles can't possibly protect you from the most powerful army in world history.
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» It's not Power to the People...
Posted by: Aussie Kim
» How many battleships does it take to pacify the Iraqi people?
Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: How many battleships does it take to pacify the Iraqi people?
Posted by: yoursfaithfully
» RE: How many battleships does it take to pacify the Iraqi people?
Posted by: YogiBear
» I'd rather you try to tell that to the Iraqi people who were invaded by a foreign power.
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: I'd rather you try to tell that to the Iraqi people who were invaded by a foreign power.
Posted by: yoursfaithfully
» Who said they kill civilians??? What are you talking about? I am talking about all the ......
Posted by: Prophit
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Posted by: JoshuaLudd on Oct 17, 2006 3:19 PM
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Habeus Corpus is, today, GONE.
There is still time for change through the system, and I don't believe any violent revolution is, or should be on the imminent horizon... but I feel a whole lot safer knowing that there is an armed populace.
As for domestic violence... well, sad to say... do you prefer your victims stabbed, beaten to death, poisoned, or shot? That is really the only question. The problem isn't the guns... the problem is the people using the guns.
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» RE: Anyone...
Posted by: Robba29
» RE: Anyone...
Posted by: Ulfhethner
» RE: Anyone...
Posted by: Jack Burton
» Don't like it? Then buy a gun. Get your liberal friends to buy guns.
Posted by: JoshuaLudd
» Go for it, buy a gun
Posted by: TravisABQ
» I'm a "liberal". I own a gun, and I know how to use it better than most.
Posted by: JoshuaLudd
» Hah, me too! There are alot more of us out there than people realize, so you can....`
Posted by: Prophit
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Posted by: medstudgeek on Oct 17, 2006 3:53 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Why CAN'T the woman buy a gun?
Posted by: Sushi
» I WANT EVERYONE HERE WHO HAS NEVER SHOT A GUN TO GO TO A SHOOTING RANGE!
Posted by: JoshuaLudd
» Ask them to do it several times, maybe even for a year so they really get to know them.
Posted by: Prophit
» I wish I could understand how folks who have never shot a gun feel... but I was raised with them.
Posted by: JoshuaLudd
» I know, my husband was a life long gun owner and a Democrat. He also was raised with thim.
Posted by: Prophit
» Guns do seem to be a big part of rural culture
Posted by: medstudgeek
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Posted by: sofla100 on Oct 17, 2006 5:58 PM
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» If they are floating all around, how come I have not seen any?
Posted by: chief of okeefe
» RE:I wish I could find some floating around! I could use a few more!!!
Posted by: Againstthewindwalking
» And where in the world did you ever see that????
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: And where in the world did you ever see that????
Posted by: YogiBear
» Wrong, go read the damn article and find out what it is.
Posted by: Prophit
» Chill out dude
Posted by: YogiBear
Comments are closed-
Posted by: chief of okeefe on Oct 17, 2006 7:25 PM
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Drop the damn gun grabbing stupidity! Gore lost his own home state because of the gun issue alone. This is why that rich-man's fascist Bush is in power!
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» Dean was pro-gun
Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: Dean was pro-gun
Posted by: Jack Burton
» RE: Dean was pro-gun
Posted by: YogiBear
Comments are closed-
Posted by: deborama on Oct 17, 2006 8:26 PM
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Guns cause a lot of problems even if they're not fired.
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» Run stupid!
Posted by: LtL
» RE: un stupid!
Posted by: popsicle67
» RE: un stupid!
Posted by: LtL
» RE: un stupid!
Posted by: Aussie Kim
» Friefighters, too
Posted by: YogiBear
» Another good point, when Bush implements his dictatorship he will be calling on those same....
Posted by: Prophit
» You speaking to me?
Posted by: YogiBear
Comments are closed-
Posted by: popsicle67 on Oct 17, 2006 10:48 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
( a far cry from our marriage ) but I am still unable to regain my right to own a gun. It actually would not be any big deal save for the fact that my father had two antique hunting rifles
and one model 94 Winchester that I really wanted to have for for displaying(one was over a hundred years old) and I could not find any way to keep them legally. I know you might have trouble thinking of guns as a decoration but they were neat to look at and all the old westerns were full of cowboys carrying the model 94 Winchester and I grew up on them so it was never about needing protection or wanting revenge but every question I was asked was about how I felt about my divorce and ex-wife and that was completely irrelevant. So now the guns are somebody else's and I still have my giant red W for wifebeater blazed on my forehead. Shouldn't society have to forgive me if my ex- wife has? How long does society get to spit on me?
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» RE: A view from the darkside
Posted by: yoursfaithfully
» No scum bag
Posted by: LtL
» RE: No scum bag
Posted by: scott@alter
Comments are closed-
Posted by: TravisABQ on Oct 18, 2006 3:42 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Consider this.
At least 40% of American households have at least one gun.
The U.S. has an estimated 228 million firearms legally owned by Americans.
A fraction of a percent is used in violent crime.
I just want to ask all you folks who have been indoctrinated all your life by the media and Hollywood to fear guns and HATE your fellow Americans, just how do you propose to eliminate firearms from America. Never mind the legal issues of repealing the second amendment of the constitution, and passing legislation to make possession, and transfer of firearms a crime.
How do you think you can make 40% of your fellow Americans into criminals, and enforce a gun prohibition? HOW?
Do you want the government to prosecute a war on guns? I remind you that will not be a war on “bad scary guns”, that will be a war waged upon your fellow Americans.
All the police and Federal agents can only make a slight dent in the supply of dangerous drugs entering or manufactured in this country. Firearms are a durable good which can be functional for decades, or even more than a century. Making a gun is so simple that illiterate tribesmen in Pakistan or the Philippines can make a gun with scrap metal and hand tools. America is filled with basement tinkerers, and engineers who have access to modern steel, and power tools. It is not like refining plutonium.
Guns are HERE, in abundance. Wishful thinking will not make them disappear, and I hope you are rational enough to realize that instigating a “gun war” would be a bad idea.
Domestic violence is an awful thing. One can hardly avoid the news stories of a woman who is attacked, raped, or killed whether by a stranger or by a violent ex-boyfriend or ex-husband. In most cases the attacker does not even use a gun. Brutal, violent men often prefer a knife, or a club, or a piece of rope. In most cases, it is just a matter of brute strength, and a 110 pound woman has little chance of winning a fight against a 200 pound man.
Unless she has a gun.
There are violent criminals out there; they have no interest in having a “fair fight”. They mean to HURT, and they mean to win. There are EVIL people out there, and to them, you are just FOOD, oblivious and just waiting to be eaten.
You have probably been indoctrinated to think that “violence never settles anything” or you can “talk your way out of trouble” or some such drivel. Have you ever been in a real life-or-death situation? Have you ever been harmed by an ex-lover or victimized by street crime? Are you so convinced that it can’t possibly happen? Do you want a restrictive law to prohibit you from obtaining or using a gun to save your own life, or the life of your child?
You have the RIGHT to defend yourself. You have the RIGHT to lawfully obtain the best tool for self defense.
I have faith in my fellow Americans, I have faith in YOU, and I think that YOUR life is of immeasurably higher value than a rapist who would kill you.
But the politicians with their bodyguards, the elitist reporters for anti-gun newspapers would rather have criminals succeed in raping women, or murdering elderly people, than allow law abiding citizens the best tools to preserve innocent life.
Do you ever wonder why that is?
Do some study, and think for yourself.
http://www.guncite.com/
http://www.gunfacts.info/
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» RE: Defend yourself
Posted by: yoursfaithfully
» RE: Defend yourself
Posted by: TravisABQ
» RE: Defend yourself
Posted by: scott@alter
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Posted by: Againstthewindwalking on Oct 18, 2006 12:22 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is beyond idiotic!! What? Everybody wants to defend the First Ammendmant, but ignore the Second? What a crock of shit!!!
Where I live the closest cop is twenty minutes away! My firearms, (all of them!) are twenty inches away from my bed! Why? I"M NOT A FUCKING VICTIM!!!
It's a far better thing to be tried by twelve, than carried by six! And when they come to take ME off to "Camp Halliburton", I'll have something more than stale platitudes and an acoustic guitar to face them with!
If you DON"T have a gun of some sort, then you're not paying attention!!
As far as all the gun-haters out there go; You share 25% of the same genes as an eggplant!! Get over yourselves! If you don't want a gun? Fine! Be a victim!! But don't expect me and my family to!! All because your afraid to face life's challenges as a warrior, and expect the "Boys in Blue" to keep your asses in one piece!
Quit your damned whining! Stand without fear, and YOU WIN!!!
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» RE: nough already!!!!
Posted by: FNU LNU
» The NRA has been coopted. Forget them. Join the GOA!
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: nough already!!!!
Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: nough already!!!!
Posted by: Aussie Kim
» Woooo! Somebody is hot and angry..... Sooo the question is "What are YOU afraid of from...
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: You live in Austraia, and you call the USA a shithole???
Posted by: Againstthewindwalking
» RE: nough already!!!!
Posted by: Soco
Comments are closed-
Posted by: elisabeth on Oct 18, 2006 1:00 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Man, already charged with domestic violence against this woman, shoots her in the back with a rifle in front of her 8 year old child.
Utah is notorious for advocating "gun rights."
linked text
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» And...?
Posted by: Ulfhethner
» RE: And...?
Posted by: Ulfhethner
» RE: And...?
Posted by: morticia
» RE: And...?
Posted by: Ulfhethner
» Elderly couple saved by gun yesterday...
Posted by: Jack Burton
» RE: Utah man shoots girlfriend/mother of 2 in back today
Posted by: Jack Burton
» Exactly!!! If he had decided to kill her he was going to do it regardless of what he used.
Posted by: Prophit
» Ever heard of moderation?
Posted by: elisabeth
» RE: ver heard of moderation?
Posted by: Jack Burton
Comments are closed-
Posted by: zooeyhall on Oct 18, 2006 1:44 PM
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These young men are bombarded by images of affluence in the media. But the reality is they are faced with no hope and no prospects. Rural America is becoming the United States version of the Gaza Strip.
If only progressives would champion the ECONOMIC causes of the middle-class, they could make some headway. Instead, I have too often seen the Progressive movement (including sites like Alternet) hijacked by what I call the "Lexus Liberals". Thus, we get tomes expounding on gender issues, ethnic identity, organic food, global warming, pro-illegal immigrant articles, etc.
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» Check out the book Crunchy Cons
Posted by: JoshuaLudd
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Posted by: sofla100 on Oct 18, 2006 2:32 PM
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Your pants are down.
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» RE: You need to research the raw numbers
Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: You need to research the raw numbers
Posted by: Ulfhethner
» Duh, they only have a population of 50 million and we have 300 million, Duh, YOUR pants are down.
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Duh - learn to count
Posted by: Aussie Kim
» RE: Duh - note to self - learn HTML
Posted by: Aussie Kim
» Do the math
Posted by: elisabeth
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Posted by: BurtonLT on Oct 19, 2006 2:55 PM
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As for Lautenberg Amendment, this is as unconstitutional a piece of legislation as you can get. It deprives people of a basic right, that to bear arms, because of a bunch of paranoid feminists and their manginas in Congress.
How about mass acts of civil disobedience in which gun owners refuse to turn in their firearms? What would femi-nazis do about that? Talk about their vaginas?
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Comme
