For the truth about rightwing Republican evangelicals in general and born-again Bush specifically, visit the outstanding progressive website -- www.King-George.biz -- and read the blistering investigative article titled, "Shrub the Charlatan: the Devil Made Him Do It!"

You will also enjoy 70 Bushwhacking cartoons and other illustrations.

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That's the only way that I can think of to describe Gerald Schoenewolf's thesis. The literature of the history of slavery in America contradicts his contention.

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In our country we would not have had to write protest letters to organizations who’s only rational is to promote hate and bigotry. We would have simply written to the Canadian Human Rights Counsel. The CHRC would have investigated and if they found the situation to warrant a punitive action then they would have began it. The Goverment in our nation funds the fight for equality and justice, and that funding is bottomless. Such punitive actions would include felony prosecutions that would have shut down the website, condemned it’s Editorial staff and owners to large fines and jail time and if these people continued their activities more jail time. Everybody has a right in our country to express an opinion. They also have a responsibility for that opinion and it’s consequences. I strongly believe that is the true basis of Freedom of Speech. I also believe that our nation’s way of imposing consequences or allowing a day in court to prove one’s belief is the superior way to go. There would be no way that this sort of website would have any chance of survival in Canada and it’s proprietors would not be scampering about the nation immune to the standards of our nation’s morality. This organization would not have dared associate with the likes of this lunatic sociologist. Perhaps in America there are recourses for such people expressing their lunacy. If that is the case, it’s time to use them. The struggle for decency never ends and that struggle has to be fought in the most aggressive way. There must be some way to legally hammer these people back into their dark, poorly lit church basements, so let’s get onto it!

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If this guy was living in Canada he will be out of job because of is psychologist license revoke and he will be facing court for the racist comments and discrimination.

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Scratch an anti-gay bigot and underneath you'll often find a racist. The NARTH controversy is one more piece of evidence that racism and homophobia are inseparable issues.

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I guess this new statement on race and the civil right movement which, by the way, included more than just African Americans, puts into prospective the validity of their claims on curing Gays.

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This piece is the typical polarizing crap put out by today's commentators. For example, it's hard to argue that there weren't some benefits that accrued to the original slaves for having been extracted from their jungle existences. Further, I doubt that most of their descendants would rather be living their present lives here rather than living in, say, Darfur.

Methinks all the original author was saying is that there are usually more than two sides to a story, and that we ought to take a look at some of those other views. The world isn't a binary zone. We ought not place artificial constraints on thought.

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That must be some book!

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The article referenced by the writer gives evidence once more why we need to have a national time for the study of African History, African-American History, History of Slavery in America all important. The fact that in 2006, some people still believe that African was mostly jungle back then (and how does this, being a jungle, readily translate to a "savage" place and way to live?"), implying there was no system of government, no ecnomic system, no educational system, WITH BOOKS as well as an oral tradition, no medical system - wth a health care component, no religious traditions, no "higher sciences" (no we are not talking about mounting missiles up in space, aimed back at the inhabitants of earth), no culture or high civilization. I could go on, this is what we mean by racism, the absolute ignorance disguised as intellect, then project upon people and nations as a justification (slavery) for hideously immoral actions, based upon equally hideous beliefs and value systems, that then lead to judgments of current conditions divorced from their actions and lastly, the absolute in ability to feel remorse for what was done, to feel that to be remorseful is somehow, I can't even put forth a word, how do you not feel shame for what was done to Africans? I as an American feel shame for what was done to Native Americans, and I am an African American with little to no responsibility to what was done. My ancestors were slaves, powerless, (but not so powerless they did not rebel 7/24/365 against slavery, but were powerless in the halls of government where policy was being made). I would like to think if the revolution or Civil War that ended slavery had of occurred a few years earlier, we would have been a different nation with more diversity, more justice, no or very little racism and we would be the most powerful, peace loving country in the world. Because we would have defeated the forces of slavery and war, but it did not happen. Are we human enough now for it to happen still?

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The day the US government decides what is and what is not acceptable speech will be the last day of this great, if flawed, nation. Thanks for a bit of information that makes me proud (did I say that?) to be an American!

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News flash: You shouldn't say black people are lucky that our ancestors were slaves, otherwise we wouldn't be here. You never say Irish decendants were lucky that a potato famine killed tons of people and sent them to American shores. We never say Jews were lucky that Hitler started killing them. We never say Russians were lucky Stalin got work camp crazy and sent millions to their graves and looking for other places, such as America, to escape to. We never say the English were lucky for being given the choice between debtors prison and American colonies. We never say Asians were lucky that Pol Pot came into power or that there was a war in Vietnam or communists in China. We never say any of those things. Why? BECAUSE THEY WEREN'T LUCKY! IT SUCKED! IT STILL SUCKS! Fact is, most people's families migrated to this country because life sucked somewhere else. Yet we don't try telling them that the they are lucky that horrific events happened in their countries else their grandparents never would have boated over. It's not okay. It's never okay when something bad happens, and it's a slap to the face when we people say, "Hey, you should be happy that others suffered horribly and reaped no benefit so that four hundred years down the line you could sip gallons of expensive coffee at the cafes that sprout up every ten feet." No, I'm not glad, and saying I'm better off in America today than I would be in Africa today leaves out that, if slavery hadn't happened, something else would have. With all the people lost during the slave trade, maybe, if they had stayed and invented and did all the things people who are not devasted do, maybe the reverse would be true. I don't know. No one knows. All I know is, the whole "better off" statement stops any true dialogue from happening, and it justifies not doing anything to help people out. It's not just used here, it's used against every major issue. When we ask for universal health insurance, we're told we're better off without insurance than that stuff they have in Canada where they have to wait. When we ask for wage increases, we're told low wage was better than not having a job because "that's what will happen if we make any increases, small businesses will fire everyone." Every time we raise an arguement, we're shot down with "better off." I'm sick of it and we need to stand up and ask, "How do you know that we're better off? Are you psychic, or did God send you a personal e-mail?"

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The lack of tolerance on the part of the religious right is an affront to the very principles that Jesus taught. When will this hypocrisy finally be obvious to them? The "intellectual" environment of NARTH also appears to be "savage." Perhaps these crackpots should be abducted and forced into slavery so that they too will be better off.

Progressive Oregonian Jefferson Smith recently called the movement for equal rights regardless of sexual orientation "the civil rights movement of our generation." Maybe the current struggle for same-sex marriage and other basic human rights is not comparable in scale to the civil rights movement of the 1960's, but perhaps it would be if sexual preference were as obvious as one's skin color.

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The comment by Gerald Schoenewolf indicates very limited understanding of the complexities of history, in general, and the African experience, in particular. The defence of his comments as creating a balanced discourse is similar to arguing that the Jewish Holocaust demonstrates some positive value in dispersing Jews to Europe and North America, where for the first time, they have had full citizenship rights and have played fundamental roles in some of the greatest achievements of these societies. The cultural achievements of those countries of Europe that Hitler tried to purge of Jews as well as the achievements of their Jewish citizens is even clearer to history than those of pre-slavery Africa. Yet the Jews were hounded out of this culture which produced Freud, Marx and Einstein to their present places in the New World and other parts of Europe. The Jewish Holocaust, within this style of thought, could be seen as representing a unintended blessing to humanity because not only did it lead to the Jewish exodus from which the US gains so much today, it gave impetus to the founding of the current Jewish homeland in Palestine. So, this line of though would argue that we should appreciate Hitler's unintended gift to the Jewish people and to the world through his murder of six million Jews, the disruptions of massive communities and of countless families, the psychological dislocation of many who did not die but suffered the horrors of the death camps. The world has still not recovered from that experience and it is at the root of the Jewish-Palestinian crisis, is closely related to post World War Two Middle East crises, to the emergence of Islamic Fundamentalist and Israeli terrorism.

Less well understood is the disruption created in the African states and communities through slavery. Slavery would have made difficult the stability required for social development in all its forms and decimated the concentration of citizens in the prime of their lives who represent the central person power to lead such development. The physical and psychological dislocation continued into the terrible experience of crossing the Middle Passage in the massive numbers of those who died in those horrific conditions where they were dehumanised. It persisted in the distortions represented by forced dislocation to another land to work as beasts of burden for generations. Even after emancipation, they were not regarded as fully human, they were not seen as sharing the humanity of their former enslavers so they were segregated and downtrodden, a reality that is the central reason for the existence of the combative force represented by the civil rights movement which the original writer and his supporters denigrate. The African-American communities and the locations settled by freed slaves, such as Sierra Leone, have still not recovered fully from this physical and psychological trauma.

Colonialism rewrote the character of African communities in terms dictated by the Caucasian overlords, and set in motion a process of global marginalisation of Africa that continues today. It is reinforced through structural management of the global economy as well as the direct and indirect connivance of African collaborators.

Within the line of thought represented by Schoenewolf and those who are argue that he is making a balanced argument, therefore, the Jewish Holocaust and African slavery are not so much an expression of the utmost barbarism but an acceleration or even a catalyst for positive social developments.

This way of contextualising such shallow thinking indicates the frightening repercussions of such ideas.
Its also not truethat Africa before slavery was a savage place. Historians have demonstrated that pre-slavery and pre-colonial Africans have developed all the fundamental structures of civilisation, and had their own state structures. See the UNESCO History of Africa.

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I love all the claims of "science" they throw out, they say it in their defense almost every other sentence. Usually when "science" is used like that a lot nothing at all scientific is going on.
They just want to run other people's lives be it gays or blacks whoever. That's always a dangerous game. I'm sure if you dig deep enough into the members of this organization there are some Nazi sympathizers as well.

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Okay how are you supposed to "cure" someone who is gay? I cant really understand the concept because if someone is gay, then shouldnt they be able to be recognized as a human being and part of society and not someone suffering from an illness?? I cannot see why all you homophobes (of course, not pointing fingers at anyone in particular) have to get rid of these people (who are probably not much different from you, might i add) just for being different! In the Constitution it says that EVERYONE has their natural freedom to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. If these people can't pursue happiness, then that is a violation of their natural rights. And when did this suddenly become a racial problem? I really cant understand that part either. Oh, and with the slavery thing, thats just crazy right there...

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Sorry but this is... (with all due respect to whoever might be offended) ...retarded.

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Wow, I'm so offended by this puss bastard PIG that I can't even write about his moronic comments. There are, to be brief, too many African corpses at the bottom of the Atlantic Ocean to ever see anything funny or beneficial about the slave trade. Additionally, the plight of African Americans (and by extension, South Americans/Afro-South Americans) is so spirit-smashing that one has a hard time seeing how it was beneficial. And whew, we sure as shit can say (with Rwandans as witnesses, thank you Mother Belgium) that Africa is suffering today from Europe "discovering" it. Oh, that bit about the civil rights movement, well...it's one of the few moments in this country's history that all people of this earth can look at and be inspired by! Every movement since then owes its existence to it.

As someone said, maybe the Holocaust should be viewed as having been a good thing, for now jewish zionists can bomb up the middle east, displace thousands, make their own camps/ghettos, and have an unbalanced relationship with the United States. After all, they did get Palestine (er, Isreal)!

This guy is disgusting and should wallow in a pit of shit and vomit...even that might be too good for him.

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Wow, I'm so offended by this puss bastard PIG that I can't even write about his moronic comments. There are, to be brief, too many African corpses at the bottom of the Atlantic Ocean to ever see anything funny or beneficial about the slave trade. Additionally, the plight of African Americans (and by extension, South Americans/Afro-South Americans) is so spirit-smashing that one has a hard time seeing how it was beneficial. And whew, we sure as shit can say (with Rwandans as witnesses, thank you Mother Belgium) that Africa is suffering today from Europe "discovering" it. Oh, that bit about the civil rights movement, well...it's one of the few moments in this country's history that all people of this earth can look at and be inspired by! Every movement since then owes its existence to it.

As someone said, maybe the Holocaust should be viewed as having been a good thing, for now jewish zionists can bomb up the middle east, displace thousands, make their own camps/ghettos, and have an unbalanced relationship with the United States. After all, they did get Palestine (er, Isreal)!

This guy is disgusting and should wallow in a pit of shit and vomit...even that might be too good for him.

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Dr. Schoenwolf seems to be one of those Americans who, to borrow from Beneatha Younger, base their image of pre-contemporary Africa on Tarzan movies. According to what I have read, medieval Africa consisted of many kingdoms with a sophisticated artistic and political culture, and the king of at least one of them sent messages to his European counterparts protesting the Transatlantic slave trade as robbing his country of its best young people. Hardly evidence of "savagery"!

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And Africa is not all "jungle". It is mostly savannah with a number of deserts.

And furthermore, all human life has been found to have started in Africa. Does that mean that we should all of us be deprived of rights and be in slavery? Who would be master in that case?

This article bespeaks of total ignorance of geography, science, anthropology and history- not to speak of humanity.

It is well that Alternet offers this to us so that we can know and can be forwarned about the nonsense coming from the totally uninformed and ignorant.

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Sheeze! This guy is seriously pathetic. It has been proven that Africa supported a number of very high level civilizations so he is getting his history of Africa from The Phantom and Tarzan comic books. His suggestion that liberals have not achieved symbolic and complex intellectual development is childish playground name calling, hardly anything that would be appropriate for a respected PhD in his field or any field. If he attempted to publish those contentions in any respectable, peer reviewed journal, his thesis would be rejected and his credentials would be seriously questioned. Can there be accredited universities that would actually grant a PhD to an individual who demonstrates such seriously unscholarly rationalizations and defiencies in his own education?

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As an African who now lives in America, if I ever saw this guy face to face, I would probably punch him in the nose.






....but I guess that would be savage of me wouldn't it?

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This guy should be forced to become "ex-straight" and then sold into a life of slavery.

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To apply individual psychology to social psychology is magic, not science, it's scientism - a vastly over-represented phenomenon in our popular press. Dressing prejudice in the white coat does not science make.

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The misinformation and deceptive arguments coming out of NARTH, especially the claims that being gay is a choice or that it can be "cured," have been denounced by gay activists for a long time as nothing more than pseudo-science. Now that similar misinformation is being promoted by NARTH along racial lines, perhaps people of other communities will lend a more sympathetic ear to what gays have been saying.

At the very least, it's reason enough for African-Americans and gays to understand the need to guard each other's backs against a common enemy.

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The speaker would only go to jail if he actively promoted hate crimes. He would probably lose his licence to practise, but that would be at the discretion of his professional association. Just talking hate isn't enough to get one jailed in Canada, anymore than in the States. All you American free-speechers can get off your moral high horses now.

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Shoenewolf's opinions are without merit. They do not deserve to be validated at all. That is what I think, anyway. Alternet seems, on the contrary, to want him to become famous.

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This is just another attempt at historical revisionism. People like Schoenewolf only "get it" in so far as they can mold the facts to fit there viewpoints . The ludicrousness of it is that during the era of the slave trade, Schoenewolf can talk all he wants about conditions in Africa, but the Europeans themselves were involved in savage wars and just barely out of the Inquisition. To then justify slavery on the so-called basis of "rescuing" Africans, presumably from themselves, has to be the "bottom barrel" of hypocrisy. To also claim this argument as some kind of "intellectual brilliance" is just compounding the injury. Schoenewolf is seemingly of the same ilk who believes the holocaust was fiction and that man never walked on the moon (ie, it was "staged" by the government). The fact that he is allied with some group that claims gays could "choose" to be different, or some other ridiculous nonsense, speaks volumes for his claims.

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Occurs to me that this guy has also managed to very clearly and effectively discredited nearly the entire extreme right wing as bigots, haters, ignorant and uneducated pretenders who try to clad their vileness in pseudo science and false religion. If he had stuck to one subject, yes, he might have managed a debate about homosexuality, pretending that they had only the best intentions in doing so. But by tying his own position at an organization dedicated to "curing" homosexuality to racism and other bigotry, he has conclusively proved that the core of the entire far right movement has no basis in science or any good will at all, but simply is a based on hatred. He should have stuck to a single subject and thus concealed the pretense that their movement is nothing more deliberate indulgence in unadulterated evil.

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I am going to take a stab in the dark about this stuff for which I may be well criticized. I am going to guess this crap is just more evidence of excessive neoconfederate influence (the other neocons) in our comtemporary political culture. From 1865 to 1964, the deep south was buried politically as a result of a brutal military defeat in a civil war which took about 3% of the total number of American lives at the time. It was by Lincoln's own admission a bloody and ugly business and produced long lasting bitterness in the South.

Then came the 1964 US national election and everything began to change. In true dialectical fashion, what seemed like the beginning of a new demise of the right-wing white South with civil rights also presented a new political beginning which would manifest more boldly a decade and a half later. The Republican Party began to take over the South from the Southern Democrats. As Walter Cronkite said, "Overnight, the Party of Lincoln became the Party of Jim Crow!" The south began to realign politically and with the collapse of the northern industrial rust belt and the rise of the sunbelt the south was ready to take over by 1980! Their adage could well have been "if ya can't beat 'em, join 'em!" Indeed, by gradually attempting to take over the US political system and then wage a culture war for the heart of the US value system they will have won the old Civil War at this rate. Of course, not all southerners are reactionary theocrats and not all northerners progressive liberals. However, they are concentrated respectively south and north and the general thrust of what is going on today is very possibly a north/south culture war with small groups of opponents on each side of the Mason-Dixon Line. The drivel expressed by this racist anti-gay bigot is standard Southern fare. Opposition to it concentrated North. The deep South wants to extend its cultural/political sphere over the whole of US civil society. The socio-economic orientation of the Bush Regime and its political connections are southern and specifically Texan. Globalization has led back again to regionalism and localism in the pursuit of global economic and political hegemony and power. A Gramscian style struggle for counter-hegemony in a "war of position" in both the north and south to reorient US thinking and attitudes is needed to stop the impending fascist horrors that await us if people like these bigots get their way.

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first of all, more than a third of the Africans brought to America DIED ON THE WAY THERE.

let me repeat that:

1/3 DIED ON THE WAY THERE.

no matter how "jungle" you view Africa as, that's better than dead.

second: you are ware that a. not all of Africa is jungle, b. there have been, you know, cities in Africa since, umm, well since there have been cities, and c. there has been science, culture, art, government, i.e. civilization in Africa since, oh yeah, since there has been any of things things anywhere.

third: in cities like Newark the life expectancy for a Black male is about the same as a man in Bangladesh and other "3rd World" nations (the "3rd World is in quotes because who gets to decide which is first anyway?). so your "so much better" doesn't apply to all Black folks in America.

and finally: all Black people in America, all People of Colour, in fact all people, have been and continue to be damaged by the legacy of slavery. whether White folks want to believe it or not racism (their own, not some reverse crap) is painful and harmful to them. an example would be someone looking at a vicious history and being able to say, "not so bad." to me that is delusion and suppressed pain.

i stopped looking at this site for a bit because i am always amazed that we even have to debate these kinds of things IN THE FRICKIN' LEFT.

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make him an ex-straight and sell him into slavery. damn funny.

and not all of us here are liberals.

some of us would call ourselves revolutionaries.

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omg this bigot would never ever be allowed to express such claims here in Canada, that is not without facing a judge and a commision, sorry forgot the name.

We value free speech just as much as our southern neighbors, but careers have been broken for much less in here. In fact, if you say it, you gotta prove it, and if you don't, you gotta pay for it.

Dearly.

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First of all, the whole gay and racial debates are nothing more than wagging the dog. Diverting your attention to anything other than the real issues that need to be dealt with. I think we have more pressing issues that we should be up in arms about. Like say, an illegal war, a criminal administration, the death of our Constitution. Our freedom is being killed off and you're worried about people you'll never know and things that won't make your life any different than it is now. Besides, as far as racism goes, no side is better than the other. Each side of the issue is as guilty as the other. The pot calling the kettle black. One race will always think the other is racist against them, and vice versa. It will never end. Someone will always come along and take a dump in the punch bowl. Why worry about something that will never change? Seems like a waste of time to me. Besides, everyone has the right to express themselves, even in a hateful fashion as long as they don't physically harm others. Can't argue with the First Amendment. If you don't like what someone says, don't listen to them. It's the same as people who bitch about TV or radio. Turn the damn thing off if you don't like it!

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If you take "savage" to mean people whose culture is based on strong tribal bonds, and who live by hunting (and fighting) rather than farming and trade, then it's too bad the slave-trade-era Africans WEREN'T all "savages".

The Africans who were valued as slaves were gentle farmers and artisans, mostly from West Africa. The more fierce tribes of the Savannah were avoided.

"Savages" make very bad slaves! It was the ferocity of the North American Indian tribes that kept them from suffering the fate of their South American cousins, who were enslaved by the Spaniards. Nobody sane would try to put a captured Comanche in charge of their nursery, not if they liked their kids!

(The above comment is NOT an insult to the Comanches; it is a compliment. They worked hard to be the most feared tribe on the plains, and they took pride in it. My distant relatives among the Comanche confirm this.)

Getting back to Africa, note tht the f**king slavers never came to the lands of the Zulu or the Masai --- at least, they never came twice!

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There's one way to deal with a statement like that: Dismiss it as someone who had to justify his research grant money to come up with a thesis. Africans are better off as slaves? Really?
We're ALL slaves (to something or someone) in different forms.

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I venture to guess that the slaves would have been better off had we left them where they were, just as Iraq would have been better off if we left them alone and women in other countries would be better off if we stopped telling them how to free themselves from oppression and just support them in doing so.

This guy is almost funny, except he evidently believes this shit, which just makes him sick, sad and not worthy of a minute of my time.

I prefer to live happily oblivious, not knowing there are people like that out there.

Sadly, with the internet I now know way more than I want to know.

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it's an opinion. no matter what opinion you have SOMEONE isn't going to like it. i'm not saying he's right and i'm not saying that people shouldn't be upset about it. no one should be jailed for their opinion. if you ACT on your opinion then yes. for every action there is a reaction. someone somewhere is going to react to almost any opinion if that person feels it's offencive. voice your opinion but expect someone to have an issue. if you don't like the reaction then keep your mouth shut.

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