COMMENTS: 103
The Right Wing Sets Its Sights on MoveOn
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MoveOn's ability to bundle small campaign contributions from tens of thousands of rank-and-file progressives and challenge candidates backed by the full weight of the American corporatocracy is causing Washington's traditional power brokers to lose some sleep. Last year -- a nonelection year -- MoveOn's PAC raised over $9 million from 125,000 donors who threw in less than 50 bucks each on average. It's expected to spend $25 million on candidates and independent ad buys in a full-press attack on the Republican Congress this cycle.
Since the 2004 election, the GOP and its allies have taken notice, and have tried, with very limited success, to Swiftboat the group into oblivion.
It began with a contest MoveOn held to find the best homemade campaign ad to use against President Bush. They got 1,500 submissions from their members -- too many to screen quickly -- and two of them compared Bush with Hitler. As soon as MoveOn organizers caught the ads, co-founder Wes Boyd said they "were in poor taste," that the organization "deeply regret[s] that they slipped through our screening process," and they were taken off the site.
But the right's water-carriers were off to the races. The ads were the subject of Drudge report "flashes" and Washington Times features. Fox News spent days on the story; host John Gibson asked what was becoming of America with "MoveOn.org and George Soros sponsoring these ads that compare Bush to Hitler?" Sean Hannity told a guest: "You guys on the left are going so far over the cliff," and Bill O'Reilly cited the ads as proof that the Democratic Party was "being held captive by the far, far left." The same voices were considerably less outraged when the Republican National Committee itself produced and distributed an ad -- called "despicable" by Slate's William Saletan -- that intercut scenes of Hitler's Germany with remarks by leading Democrats including John Kerry, Howard Dean and al Gore a few months later.
In the middle of 2005, with the Washington press corps awaiting the next installment of the "Plame-gate" soap opera, which was peaking at the time, Republicans stepped up the campaign against MoveOn; instead of attacking prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald or the Democratic Party leadership, the Republicans, in the words of a report in Rollcall ($$), "launched a full-scale attack" on the organization, "questioning the liberal group's patriotism and worldview."
At the time, few high-ranking GOP officials were commenting on the rumors of indictments swirling around the White House. But Ken Mehlman, National Republican Party chairman, responded to the mounting criticism of White House political advisor Karl Rove with this non sequitur: "It's disappointing," he said, "that once again, so many Democrat leaders are taking their political cues from the far-left, MoveOn wing of the party."
A month earlier, in a now infamous speech to the New York Conservative Party, Rove himself made waves when he opined that "Conservatives saw the savagery of 9/11 and the attacks, and prepared for war; liberals saw the savagery of the 9/11 attacks and wanted to prepare indictments, and offer therapy and understanding for our attackers." The statement got lots of media play and outraged Democrats and progressives, but the very next sentence got less attention: "In the wake of 9/11," Rove added, "liberals believed it was time to submit a petition ... [which] is precisely what Moveon.org did."
Painting an opponent as far out on the fringe and unworthy of trust is, of course, a favorite tactic of hacks everywhere. In a country with an abundance of "low information" voters and a media more focused on Nicole Ritchie's eating habits than any serious analysis of issues of public importance, participating in politics has largely become an emotive act -- all too many Americans vote for the pol with whom they'd like to have a beer, or the one they think better reflects their "values," however vaguely defined, or the one who looks better in that ubiquitous and saccharine family photo that every campaign trots out. The taller candidate has won 21 of the past 26 presidential elections.
In that context, defining who is and who is not within the narrow, sensible mainstream is a short-cut, a quick and easy way to appeal to people's values, and one at which the right has long excelled. In conservatives' well-disciplined messaging, there are no environmentalists or feminists or liberals -- just radical leftists and feminazis and eco-terrorists. A Freedom of Information Act request last year netted a Justice Department memo bemoaning the "radical militant librarians" who were opposing provisions of the Patriot Act.
MoveOn.org is an obvious target for right-wing causes. The group started in 1998 when a couple of Silicon Valley entrepreneurs who were sick of hearing about the Monica Lewinsky scandal circulated a petition calling on legislators to just move on. In the eight years since, it's become one of the largest political/civic organizations in the country.
It's a key piece of progressive infrastructure in a broader movement that's started to coalesce since 2000, and it represents an enormous threat to the faux centrist status quo that has become so deeply entrenched in American politics, and to the elites that have long benefited from it. MoveOn.org does things that only the right has been able to do for several decades. The organization provide tools that allow people to organize events in their communities, giving them the face-to-face political space that the left once found in union halls and town hall meetings but hasn't had in some time. For years, the right has been able to do that kind of personal organizing through conservative churches -- especially with the advent of "mega-churches" in the 1970s -- while more liberal "mainline" churches tended to keep out of politics.
They're also able to mobilize tens of thousands of members to respond rapidly to issues as they unfold -- to write a letter or make a phone call and get on their representative's nerves -- which was also long an ability of religious right groups and the NRA, largely unmatched on the left. They also train campaign volunteers, turn out their members to canvass or phonebank for progressive candidates, organize media campaigns and keep a large and diverse online community up to date with what's breaking in Washington. Even more
What makes MoveOn's organizing model so threatening to those safely ensconced inside the Washington Beltway is that MoveOn, unlike its counterparts on the right, is largely bottom up, driven by constantly polling their members about which issues to focus on and which campaigns to support. To a great degree, that makes it immune to the conventional wisdom about what is and isn't important (and what is and isn't possible). Democratic strategists can whisper to Washington Post columnists that opposing the war in Iraq is bad politics, and that becomes the conventional wisdom. But MoveOn has to move with its membership. It has active campaigns for clean voting, clean election financing and renewable energy, all issues that are important to progressives, but to which the Democratic Party itself pays maddeningly little real attention.
Of course, emails and petitions only go so far. The other piece of the organization is MoveOn.org Political Action, one of the largest PACS in the country and fast becoming one of the Democratic Party's most important sources of funds. The PAC is the real threat to the corporatocracy because it offers progressive candidates an alternative to dialing up the usual circle of big-fish donors, lobbyists and trade associations for campaign dollars.
That independent source of cash -- a source that represented the interests of millions of ordinary progressives rather than the submissive DLC Democrats on K Street -- is what prompted the Republican Swiftboating last year. It began shortly after they raised an eye-opening $800,000 for West Virginia Sen. Robert Byrd in just 48 hours. Tom Reynolds, chairman of the National Republican Congressional Committee, told RollCall that MoveOn "certainly [has] more money there than Howard Dean and the DNC." The campaign against MoveOn was an effort to frighten candidates away from accepting MoveOn's support.
MoveOn sent out an email urging its members to support Pennsylvania Senate candidate Bob Casey in his race against Rick Santorum. Casey raised $150,000 in just 24 hours, and the National Republican Senatorial Committee issued a press release calling Casey -- an abortion opponent who many progressives are holding their noses to support -- a member of the "ultra-liberal left." Fox News' host Bill O'Reilly said that people giving money to MoveOn's PAC might as well "give to the Nazi party." John Brabender, Santorum's media consultant, said that if Casey accepts MoveOn money, he "will have a lot of trouble in Pennsylvania, particularly in the middle part of the state. The group will be hung around Bobby Casey's neck." That hasn't been the case; an average of the five most recent polls in the Pennsylvania race shows Casey with a 12-point lead over Santorum.
They did it again in the recent Connecticut primary; as the neoconservative Joe Lieberman watched almost $1.2 million flow in from business PACs, MoveOn.org raised a quarter million dollars for challenger Ned Lamont, and 2,000 of its Connecticut members volunteered for the campaign. After Lamont's win, both the far right and the big-business wing of the Democratic Party again lashed out. DLC Fellow and former Bush official Marshall Wittman whined: "The only jihad many in the left wing in the party are interested in is the one against the party's former vice presidential standard bearer," and Dick Cheney warned that Lieberman's defeat would give "the Al Qaeda types" exactly what they wanted.
But Lamont came back from a 20-point deficit in the spring to win the race. In general, the swiftboating of MoveOn has been a miserable failure. The professional media aren't buying the "radical" label because the organization has so many members, and because of the group's support for centrist Democrats (in addition to Casey, MoveOn PAC has endorsed Florida Sen. Bill Nelson, one of the most conservative Democrats in the Senate). Senate Minority Whip Dick Durbin, D-Ill., told RollCall that the motivation for the campaign against MoveOn was transparent: "They are trying to discredit and smear MoveOn because it's so successful," he said.
For their part, MoveOn's organizers seem too busy to worry about the smears. I asked Tom Matzzie, the group's Washington director, what he thought and he said, "It doesn't worry me. When they attack us, it means they're off their game plan." What's more, said Matzzie, when Republicans say MoveOn is some radical group trying to destroy America, "they sound like paranoid nuts while we're talking about issues facing the country."
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Posted by: rsaxto on Oct 2, 2006 1:03 AM
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» Any relation to Great Scott?
Posted by: diof09
» RE: Any relation to Great Scott?
Posted by: HughEScott
» RE: If you love America, join MoveOn
Posted by: paschn
» My answer to "PASCHN." Or is it "PSYCHO?"
Posted by: HughEScott
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Posted by: edith on Oct 2, 2006 5:18 AM
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» Why do you think MoveOn is "effective"?
Posted by: boboh7
» RE: Why do you think MoveOn is "effective"?
Posted by: edith
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Posted by: CounterCorp on Oct 2, 2006 5:23 AM
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Yet neither MorOn.org nor AlterNot are willing to call on their supporters/readers to abandon the Democratic Party, or at least those within the party who continue to enable the fascist policies of the a substantial segment of both parties.
Yes, MorOn.org and AlterNot both backed Lamont against Lieberman, but neither will say anything against Feinstein, who's pretty much a carbon copy of Lieberman (down to the annoying drone, the moralistic streak, and the tendency to back Republican initiatives that their party claims to oppose).
Nor will they consistently criticize Gore/Kerry (soon to be joined by Hillary) or the DLC for losing the last three elections (soon to be four), or call on their supporters/readers to actively withhold their votes from leading Democrats -- such as Bob Casey -- whose chief (and usually only) "virtue" is that the big "D" after their names.
Why should anyone vote for Democrats who don't actually represent their views? Just because their opponent is a Republican? How do you think those Republicans got their jobs in the first place, and have held on to them since? By going up against Democrats who were just a hair less conservative than they are. Why would any conservative vote for someone like that, and why should any liberal have to "hold their nose" and do so?
When will MorOn.org and AlterNot realize that their failed strategy of returning to the Democratic Party over and over again like battered spouses doesn't increase their chance of electoral success, or move the party toward policies that they claim to support? It just maintains the DLC and centrist consultants in position of power, where they in turn maintain their ongoing policy of subservience to the Republican Party.
It certainly doesn't alter the party's policies or strategies, and the few "new" faces -- Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi, and self-justifying clowns such as Rahm Emmanuel -- are a sick joke that would be funny if they weren't such pathetic, mealy-mouthed, polling-watching hacks.
If I read one more article in the mainstream press about what a tough, uncompromising, and militant liberal Nancy Pelosi is, I'm going to wet my pants. She couldn't lead a troop of girl scouts through a lawn sprinkler without dithering about it for months.
Harry Reid is Joe Biden with more hair (and about as interesting), and has been MIA for most of the last year; Rahm Emmanuel is a member of the pro-corporate Clinton cabal that knows it can count on the support of pro-Democrat groups such as MorOn.org and AlterNot without actually saying, much less voting for or even proposing anything one iota more liberal than the party's pollmonkeys tell them is absolutely necessary to "hold onto their base".
They don't care what you want, or what is actually important or necessary, they just want to win by making the fewest amount of actual changes, and -- failing that -- to continue to live off your money while doing nothing from one election to the next. Moron.org and AlterNot are little more than boosters for a Democratic Party Full-Employment Act.
This gang couldn't talk, think, vote, or act straight if their lives depended on it, but they know they don't have to, because groups such as MorOn.org and AlterNot will continue to support them no matter what they do (or don't do). Thus, their statements, votes, and policies (when they propose any at all), they are largely indistinguishable from the centrist Republicans such as as John McCain, Jim Jeffords, and Chuck Hegel ...
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» RE: MorOn.org is AlterNot with money
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: MorOn.org is AlterNot with money (Seriously?)
Posted by: Artaraxl
» RE: MorOn.org is AlterNot with money (Seriously?)
Posted by: oregoncharles
» RE: MorOn.org is AlterNot with money (Seriously?)
Posted by: CounterCorp
» RE: MorOn.org is AlterNot with money
Posted by: xi_people
» RE: MorOn.org is AlterNot with money
Posted by: oregoncharles
» RE: MorOn.org is AlterNot with money
Posted by: xi_people
» RE: MorOn.org is AlterNot with money
Posted by: oregoncharles
» Translation: "Don't give them money because they're effective"
Posted by: thoughtcriminal
» Anti-War Candidates Listed at whatreallyhappened.com
Posted by: rwa
» The Republican war profiteers don't want you to vote - so you agree with them?
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» RE: California Democratic Senator Diane Feinstein Is Married To A War Profiteer
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» RE: The Republican war profiteers don't want you to vote - so you agree with them?
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» Kucinich is worthless as long as he remains in the Democratic Party
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» And Your Alternative Is...?
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» RE: And Your Alternative Is...?
Posted by: CounterCorp
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Posted by: Lincoln fan on Oct 2, 2006 5:51 AM
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First. I think that it's not necessary to have an organization and second, I think it's not necessary to raise money. And in fact I think that it's fundamentally wrong for an organization to collect money to try to buy an election.
Move On is trying to beat the system. I think we should try to change the system.
Move On has three million members, the labor unions have seventenn million members, third parties have several million members, the AARP has thirty million, the NAACP has I don't know how many more millions of members, and there are millions more not happy with the system who don't belong to any organization. The main thing that these often disparate groups agree on is that they don't like the system. If they want to change the system that many people in a true grassroots movement could do it. And they could do it in a matter of days.
The question boils down to this. Do we Americans want a republic or do we want a system that's run by special interest groups? Do we want our own special interest group to be able to buy political favor? In short do we want our government to be decided by money or by votes.
If you want to change the system join The Lincoln Initiative.
Bob Reichenbach.
Director, The Lincoln Initiative
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» RE: Do you want to beat the system or change the system?
Posted by: Roberta_RansleyMatteau
» RE: Do you want to beat the system or change the system?
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: Do you want to beat the system or change the system? (Yay! Look at me!)
Posted by: Artaraxl
» RE: Do you want to beat the system or change the system? (Yay! Look at me!)
Posted by: Lincoln fan
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Posted by: Plexius on Oct 2, 2006 6:16 AM
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I said, "I give my charity money to MoveOn."
She asked, "What's that?"
Before I could answer, the guy in the business suit behind me butted in with, "It's Communists!"
I was tempted to say, "And your wife is a pig!" because I figured he'd take a swing at me and I could legitimately put a Repug in the hospital. But I held my temper. The legal system here is dominated by Repugs from the cops in the street to the judges. Liberals get short shrift when it comes to justice and equality. But I think this example shows you who dominates Florida politics--semi-literate, rednecks who suck up Regressive propaganda like a pig sucking slop.
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» Often its because they are A. liars or B. wholly ignorant of anything outside of "communists"
Posted by: JoshuaLudd
» RE: My MoveOn Incident
Posted by: davidbdr
» Bush & Republicans Sovietize America While Calling Liberals Communists
Posted by: Douglas
» Ask them where their shoes are made
Posted by: eddie torres
» RE: My MoveOn Incident
Posted by: albrechtkrausse
» RE: My MoveOn Incident
Posted by: Plexius
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Posted by: VZEQICVA on Oct 2, 2006 6:28 AM
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Posted by: wcscheurer on Oct 2, 2006 7:56 AM
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You are one of my journalist young stars. This is the most disappointing piece I have ever seen you write.
Yes, their toolset is awesome, and their impact is great. Yes, they try to pull their party toward the left.
But, you fail to recognize MoveOn for the party shill that it is. Give me PDA instead any day. At least, they are honest about it.
You write: "MoveOn’s ability to bundle small campaign contributions from tens of thousands of rank-and-file progressives and challenge candidates backed by the full weight of the American corporatocracy ..."
What about when they bait-and-switch to lull progressives into inadvertently supporting "candidates backed by the full weight of the American corporatocracy" just because these candidates are Democrats and MoveOn is a willing participant in the "take back the House" campaign?
Which are the 30 contested races that they are working on? Why don't they put this information front and center for everyone to see? Is it because they will support any Democrat in a close race, no matter how bad? Even Democrats who vote for the Iraq war, military courts, and warrantless surveillance?
You write: "What makes MoveOn's organizing model so threatening to those safely ensconced inside the Washington Beltway is that MoveOn, unlike its counterparts on the right, is largely bottom up, driven by constantly polling their members about which issues to focus on and which campaigns to support."
Really!? Their engine for this purpose is a silly diversion. Try wading through 60,000 entries to cast your vote. Why did they sit out the Iraq war for nearly two years, when most of their membership surge initially came from this issue? (See Norm Solomon's excellent pieces taking them to task on this on other points.)
Try getting in contact with their leadership (as a regular person, not as a journalist). MoveOn is a tightly controlled, inaccessible hierarchy that masquerades as a grassroots organization. Don't get me wrong. I participate in their events, when they present me with an issue I support.
But, recognize that they are a willing tool of the Democratic Party. VotersForPeace is a case in point. MoveOn leadership refuses to put this issue to its "membership" (which is really more of a giant mailing list in a strictly one-way flow of ideas). Why? Because the Iraq war busts wide open their Democratic fallacy that refuses to recognize the fact that nearly all of the party leadership are spineless "hawks" who capitulate to continued militarism in our society.
I sincerely hope you revisit this piece, dig in deeper, and show the other side too.
Respectfully,
Bill Scheurer
The PeaceMajority Report
www.PeaceMajority.org
Bill Scheurer for Congress
www.BringOurTroopsHome.com
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» Nonsense! Would Gore have invaded Iraq? No!
Posted by: thoughtcriminal
» RE: Nonsense! Would Gore have invaded Iraq? Obviously Yes
Posted by: rwa
» Well, Bill Clinton's going to name you as a Troll, so take that!
Posted by: edith
» Would 9/11 have happened if Gore was in office?
Posted by: thoughtcriminal
» RE: Well, Bill Clinton's going to name you as a Troll, so take that!
Posted by: yellow
» Fact Check Fact Check/DeTroll Please
Posted by: edith
» RE: Nonsense! Would Gore have invaded Iraq? No!
Posted by: oregoncharles
» Candidate Gore Didn't Want To Send 7 Year Old Elian Gonzalez to Live With His Father
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» RE: U.S. Congressional Candidate
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» RE: U.S. Congressional Candidate
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» RE: U.S. Congressional Candidate
Posted by: HeroesAll
» MoveOn has its flaws but...
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» RE: U.S. Congressional Candidate
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» RE: U.S. Congressional Candidate
Posted by: leighsure
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Posted by: aonghus36 on Oct 2, 2006 8:13 AM
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and Clinton were President, they were rarely refered to by their opponents as President Carter or President Clinton. The reason is that names, words and titles have a subtle power to effect the mentalities of people. It is the power of suggestion. The more Bush is referred to as "President Bush", the more his position as "Leader of the Free World" is strengthened. The more Carter and Clinton were referred to as "Mr.", the less presidential they were thought of. Let's start calling Dubya
in articles as "Mr. Bush", and give the conservatives a dose of their own medicine. This is a more powerful medicine than some might think, but it is a building medicine. It doesn't take effect overnight.
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» RE: Let's Stop Calling 'Dubya' President Bush.
Posted by: oregoncharles
» RE: Let's Stop Calling 'Dubya' President Bush.
Posted by: 1984NOW!!!
» RE: Let's Stop Calling 'Dubya' President Bush.
Posted by: davidbdr
» RE: Let's Stop Calling 'Dubya' President Bush.
Posted by: aonghus36
» RE: Let's Stop Calling 'Dubya' President Bush.
Posted by: redtango
» RE: Let's Stop Calling 'Dubya' President Bush.
Posted by: GK
» RE: Let's Stop Calling 'Dubya' President Bush.
Posted by: Snott
» RE: Let's Stop Calling 'Dubya' President Bush.
Posted by: aonghus36
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Posted by: rwa on Oct 2, 2006 8:25 AM
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As someone who spends a lot of time on the official web sites of our U.S. Senators, I can tell you without hesitation that if one of them casts a vote they are proud of, a press release will be up faster than George Felix Allen can spit out a racial slur.
Today, the 12 Democrats who checked their consciences at the Senate cloakroom and voted in favor of the Bush Administration's torture bill, have almost nothing to say about their votes. In case you haven't seen the roster of who voted with Republicans on this, here they are:
Thomas Carper (D-DE)
Tim Johnson (D-SD)
Mary Landrieu (D-LA)
Frank Lautenberg (D-NJ)
Joe Lieberman (D-CT)
Robert Menendez (D-NJ)
Bill Nelson (D-FL)
Ben Nelson (D-NE)
Mark Pryor (D-AR)
Jay Rockefeller (D-WV)
Ken Salazar (D-CO)
Debbie Stabenow (D-MI)
Of these, only four have issued press releases commenting on their vote and, amazingly, those who are talking spend most of the time sounding apologetic for a vote they obviously know they should not have cast.
"I think there are some unknown constitutional issues and it may take a review by the Supreme Court before we really know whether this approach has towed the line in terms of protecting the civil-liberties of American citizens or whether it has gone over the line," said Tim Johnson (D-SD), in a brief statement that can only leave us wondering why the hell he voted for it then.
Senator Ken Salazar (D-CO) expresses a whole bunch of concerns as well and yet voted to make Bush Torturer-in-Chief anyway.
“The bill I voted for today was the best bill we could reasonably expect in this highly charged political environment," said Salazar. "Due to the many controversial and far-reaching implications of this bill, I believe it would be appropriate to force Congressional review of this bill in five years. I have concerns with this bill, but on balance it meets my personal view of what America needs to get the job done.”
But some things never change, and here was the biggest DINO (Democrat in name only) in the Senate, Nebraska's Ben Nelson crowing about what a wonderful vote he cast and making this strange statement: “This compromise goes a long way in protecting the principles of the Geneva Conventions and establishes a standard of treatment that the world will follow.”
Yeah, I'm sure most other countries are gathering right now to rewrite their laws to follow our sterling example.
Finally, we have Joe Lieberman, who has a press release announcing his vote and setting the bar awfully low for what it takes for him to follow George W. Bush.
“I voted for this bill because I believe it is better than the Administration's original proposal to respond to the Supreme Court's Hamdan decision," said Lieberman. "I would have much preferred the bill we reported out of the Senate Armed Services Committee, and I supported amendments to this bill because they addressed concerns I had. I regret that they were rejected by the Senate.”
But Joe clearly did not regret it enough to vote the right way on the torture bill.
There's currently a big argument going on in the Progressive community on the tension between calling Democrats on stances that are so antithetical to what being a Democrat is supposed to mean and making Republicans positively gleeful by bashing our own side six weeks before a crucial election.
That's a tough call to make. But it seems reasonable to question why, on a vote that is such a bellwether on where American democracy stands in 2006, these 12 Senators cast deciding votes that they were unsure about or that, deep down, they flat-out knew were wrong.
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» RE: The Enabling Party & The Next Step
Posted by: NoPCZone
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Posted by: Ellie1 on Oct 2, 2006 8:25 AM
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» RE: Bush has finally inspired me/ DONATE, DONATE, DONATE
Posted by: 1984NOW!!!
» RE: Bush has finally inspired me
Posted by: launcher
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Posted by: LuisaO on Oct 2, 2006 9:32 AM
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If you want real change, fund groups creating change!
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» RE: Day of Massive Resistance Against Bush Regime Oct. 5, 2006
Posted by: genetix03
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Posted by: kryptx on Oct 2, 2006 10:11 AM
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Your entry here states that MoveOn.org raised over $9 million from 125,000 who donated an average of less than $50. But if 125,000 people donated $9 million, simple arithmetic tells us the average donation is $72. Did you mean something other than what I understood you to mean?
$72 still isn't a huge average donation; I'm just trying to understand your story (since it's rather contrary to my understanding of MoveOn) and my first step is making sure the pieces fit.
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» RE: Confused -- Explain?
Posted by: HeroesAll
» RE: Confused -- Mean vs Median?
Posted by: launcher
» RE: Confused -- Mean vs Median?
Posted by: kryptx
» RE: Confused -- Mean vs Median?
Posted by: Joshua Holland
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Posted by: mba1957 on Oct 2, 2006 10:17 AM
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But now, perhaps we should be asking this question of the leadership of the party in control of both the executive branch and the legislative branch. The similarities between the draconian teachings of the Pope and the proposed legislation threatened by Congressional leadership and sanctioned by the executive are striking. For example, just prior to the 2004 election, the Vatican issued guidelines for Roman Catholic politicians that underlined the church's opposition to abortion, euthanasia, stem-cell research, and same-sex marriage and told Catholics not to promote laws that favor those practices. Lo and behold, many of the laws proposed since this papal edict reflect the Vatican's wishes.
In addition, Congressman Mark Foley who resigned several days ago from Congress, had been put in charge of a committee that protected exploited children after leadership knew of his proclivities with teenage boys. It is much like the Catholic hierarchy placing abusive priests in other parishes after problems arose in their former parishes. And recently, almost as an emphasis to George W. Bush's recent speeches in front of "friendly", hand-picked audiences where he mentions "Islamo-fascists" almost as much as the word "freedom", the Pope slams Islam. The Pope and the President are choreographed - they walk as one, in lock-step. This is a chilling prospect.
We should be outraged as Americans. We need to speak up and out. The Vatican should stay out of American politics. For the purposes of disclosure, I was baptized and confirmed in the Catholic church and am not anti-Catholic, I am merely honoring and respecting the Constitution above all else.
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» RE: The Vatican or the Constitution - you choose
Posted by: aonghus36
» RE: The Vatican or the Constitution - you choose: I'm with you!
Posted by: SamFox
» RE: The Vatican or the Constitution - you choose: I'm with you!
Posted by: albrechtkrausse
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Posted by: oregoncharles on Oct 2, 2006 10:29 AM
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Beware their self-promotion: I'm one of those "members", because I'm on their list, but I wouldn't dream of giving them money. I get their stuff so I can keep track: and once in a long while, they come up with something worth supporting.
However, I agree that it's a great model. We need a similar setup that really is progressive, and doesn't care what party a good candidate is from.
We could call it "Real Majority", because polls show consistent majorities for liberal ideas like single-payer health care that Democrats refuse to work for. (With all those votes to be had, why would that be? Could it be the $?)
There is only one national progressive party, and it's the Greens. If they "can't win", it's because YOU don't vote for them, or work for them.
And yes, they need all the help they can get.
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» RE: Moveon Progressive?
Posted by: reason
Comments are closed-
Posted by: xi_people on Oct 2, 2006 11:06 AM
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If you look carefully at the DLC/DNC failures since 2000, it becomes very obvious that they aren't really trying to win. Both Gore and Kerry made big noises about "fighting for uncounted votes" then folded up like cheap tents. Both actually received more votes and won their respective elections. If they were serious about winning, why didn't they vigorously contest the obviously corrupt voting process?
That the DLC/DNC should distance themselves from the horrific policies of the current mis-administration is a given. Please don't suggest that they aren't smart enough to see and understand that. But that isn't their real purpose.
Acting as an actual opposition party is NOT part of the DLC/DNC platform. Their purpose is to fool people - many of them posting to this board - into believing that they're an opposition party, while continuing to support the current hawkish policies. Thus, those who want to engage in endless wars have complete control over both parties. They can't lose.
The bottom line: it doesn't matter which party "wins". Its all pretty much the same. Until the entire system gets up-ended, nothing will change.
I wish that more liberals realized that organizations like MoveOn and the DNC/DLC do not represent their interests - nor does the democratic party.
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» RE: Does MoveOn represent liberal interests? GOOD POST by xi_people!
Posted by: SamFox
» MoveOn, DNC and DLC Are Primarily AIPAC Likkudniks Who Represent Israel's Interests
Posted by: Douglas
» RE: MoveOn, DNC and DLC Are Primarily AIPAC Likkudniks Who Represent Israel's Interests
Posted by: yellow
» Did GIYUS Recruit You To Troll and Respond to Criticism of Israel and/or AIPAC?
Posted by: Douglas
» RE: MoveOn, DNC and DLC Are Primarily AIPAC Likkudniks Who Represent Israel's Interests
Posted by: edith
» RE: Does MoveOn represent liberal interests?
Posted by: LucyFur
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Posted by: sertelt on Oct 2, 2006 12:25 PM
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» RE: give me a break
Posted by: aonghus36
» RE: give me a break
Posted by: Joshua Holland
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Posted by: WhatNow? on Oct 2, 2006 4:08 PM
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I despised clinton because he was nothing more than a god damned conservative to me. bush has now shown how much better a god damn conservative is than a fucking nazi. I will continue to support the Libertarian party even though I lean towards socialism's economic principles.
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» RE: GOP and Vichy Democrats alike
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: GOP and Vichy Democrats alike
Posted by: oregoncharles
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Piltdownman on Oct 3, 2006 6:04 AM
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The problem for groups like MO, is that they can, if they aren't careful, become nothing more than this; shorthand spin fodder. It tends to undermine their mission and it makes many candidates back away from them, for fear the connection will be used against them.
Piltdownman
Piltdown Man
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Posted by: LucyFur on Oct 3, 2006 2:29 PM
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Gore would have voted in favor of the occupation, like MoveOn's John Kerry did. Both of these "most liberal Democrats" supported the sanctions against the people of Iraq, resulting in hundreds of thousands of deaths. But would Gore have initiated it?
Moot question. That's the job for today's Repubs. The Dems' job is to make sure that people think they are an opposition but just powerless. They pretend to be "spineless," "afraid of their own shawdows," "timid," poor things (makes them seem harmless, doesn't it?)
The wishy-washy left bloggers (and you can find plenty of them on AlterNet) can't bring themselves to face the fact that the two main parties of the most powerful, dangerous, aggressive Empire the world has ever known are trading back and forth, playing good cop, bad cop at the expense of the world's people and the environment they inhabit. And the left has been going along too, convincing themselves that the Dems just need to be braver. Hey folks, don't fool yourselves, they have the cojones. Look what they've done in your name? It takes balls to slap your constituents in the face year after year. So stop saying they're weak! Did it occur to you that they might just be going along because they believe in it?
Kerry knew there were no WMDs, yet he supported the war for years until he put his political finger to the wind (The Pledge!). And did you know that top weapons inspector, Scott Ritter, begged him to vote against the invasion. Ritter gave Kerry an impressive stack of documents supporting the inspectors' position that Iraq had no WMDs and was not even close to being a military threat to the US, yet Kerry mouthed the lies, just like Bush did, and said Iraq had the weapons. Bush and Kerry have the same bosses, haven't you figured this out yet?
What did MoveOn's candidate Kerry do with this information from Ritter? He blocked Scott Ritter from taking it to Congress in the form of testimony. Again: A top weapons inspector begged MoveOn's candidate, John Kerry, to reasses his pro-war position and MoveOn's favorite candidate refused and the rest is history, bloody history.
So much for MoveOn.org. It's more than clear, they are a tool of the sold out Democratic Party. What they should have done is refused to support Kerry, period. They had the power to do this! With MoveOn's help, we could have forced the country in an entirely different direction. WE could have had a real movement. Instead, we are back where we started. Hillary Clinton will be our "choice" in 08.
What we need in this country is real resistance against entrenched power. MoveOn has demonstrated that they are not up to the job.
another interesting tidbit about Gore. I wanted to get to the bottom of his anti- global warming crusade. Could it be that pro-NAFTA, pro-big media, Al Gore has turned over a new leaf? Although he says he's not advocating nuclear energy, he certainly has been a cheerleader for it in the past. Do the research. Could he be a wolf in sheep's clothing? Maybe, maybe not. But I at least urge you to look into it rather than be led by MoveOn. This is serious.
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Posted by: bobweiss on Oct 3, 2006 9:51 PM
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Yet, when I check http://www.opensecrets.org/527s/
I see that moveon.org has received $2.6Million from George Soros. Peter Lewis of Progressive Insurance gave $2.5M. Hollywood's Stephen Bing gave $.97M, Herbert Sandler gave $2.5M.
More than half of their receipts came from 6 people.
What is really bizarre is the Soros money. His chief source of wealth is his Quantum Fund. This hedge fund is registered in the Netherland Antilles, a tax haven.
It is impossible to reconcile this representation of moveon.org as grassroot funding when a huge chunk of your budget comes from donations that were washed abroad tax free.
A more compelling case could be made that profits made from speculating on foreign currency are keeping moveon.org from sinking.
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» RE: soros funded is not grassroots
Posted by: PJH67
» I think I smell something
Posted by: edith
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Posted by: EmilyD on Oct 4, 2006 12:59 PM
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Posted by: rsaxto on Oct 2, 2006 1:03 AM
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» Any relation to Great Scott?
Posted by: diof09
» RE: Any relation to Great Scott?
Posted by: HughEScott
» RE: If you love America, join MoveOn
Posted by: paschn
» My answer to "PASCHN." Or is it "PSYCHO?"
Posted by: HughEScott
Comments are closed-
Posted by: edith on Oct 2, 2006 5:18 AM
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» Why do you think MoveOn is "effective"?
Posted by: boboh7
» RE: Why do you think MoveOn is "effective"?
Posted by: edith
Comments are closed-
Posted by: CounterCorp on Oct 2, 2006 5:23 AM
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Yet neither MorOn.org nor AlterNot are willing to call on their supporters/readers to abandon the Democratic Party, or at least those within the party who continue to enable the fascist policies of the a substantial segment of both parties.
Yes, MorOn.org and AlterNot both backed Lamont against Lieberman, but neither will say anything against Feinstein, who's pretty much a carbon copy of Lieberman (down to the annoying drone, the moralistic streak, and the tendency to back Republican initiatives that their party claims to oppose).
Nor will they consistently criticize Gore/Kerry (soon to be joined by Hillary) or the DLC for losing the last three elections (soon to be four), or call on their supporters/readers to actively withhold their votes from leading Democrats -- such as Bob Casey -- whose chief (and usually only) "virtue" is that the big "D" after their names.
Why should anyone vote for Democrats who don't actually represent their views? Just because their opponent is a Republican? How do you think those Republicans got their jobs in the first place, and have held on to them since? By going up against Democrats who were just a hair less conservative than they are. Why would any conservative vote for someone like that, and why should any liberal have to "hold their nose" and do so?
When will MorOn.org and AlterNot realize that their failed strategy of returning to the Democratic Party over and over again like battered spouses doesn't increase their chance of electoral success, or move the party toward policies that they claim to support? It just maintains the DLC and centrist consultants in position of power, where they in turn maintain their ongoing policy of subservience to the Republican Party.
It certainly doesn't alter the party's policies or strategies, and the few "new" faces -- Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi, and self-justifying clowns such as Rahm Emmanuel -- are a sick joke that would be funny if they weren't such pathetic, mealy-mouthed, polling-watching hacks.
If I read one more article in the mainstream press about what a tough, uncompromising, and militant liberal Nancy Pelosi is, I'm going to wet my pants. She couldn't lead a troop of girl scouts through a lawn sprinkler without dithering about it for months.
Harry Reid is Joe Biden with more hair (and about as interesting), and has been MIA for most of the last year; Rahm Emmanuel is a member of the pro-corporate Clinton cabal that knows it can count on the support of pro-Democrat groups such as MorOn.org and AlterNot without actually saying, much less voting for or even proposing anything one iota more liberal than the party's pollmonkeys tell them is absolutely necessary to "hold onto their base".
They don't care what you want, or what is actually important or necessary, they just want to win by making the fewest amount of actual changes, and -- failing that -- to continue to live off your money while doing nothing from one election to the next. Moron.org and AlterNot are little more than boosters for a Democratic Party Full-Employment Act.
This gang couldn't talk, think, vote, or act straight if their lives depended on it, but they know they don't have to, because groups such as MorOn.org and AlterNot will continue to support them no matter what they do (or don't do). Thus, their statements, votes, and policies (when they propose any at all), they are largely indistinguishable from the centrist Republicans such as as John McCain, Jim Jeffords, and Chuck Hegel ...
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» RE: MorOn.org is AlterNot with money
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: MorOn.org is AlterNot with money (Seriously?)
Posted by: Artaraxl
» RE: MorOn.org is AlterNot with money (Seriously?)
Posted by: oregoncharles
» RE: MorOn.org is AlterNot with money (Seriously?)
Posted by: CounterCorp
» RE: MorOn.org is AlterNot with money
Posted by: xi_people
» RE: MorOn.org is AlterNot with money
Posted by: oregoncharles
» RE: MorOn.org is AlterNot with money
Posted by: xi_people
» RE: MorOn.org is AlterNot with money
Posted by: oregoncharles
» Translation: "Don't give them money because they're effective"
Posted by: thoughtcriminal
» Anti-War Candidates Listed at whatreallyhappened.com
Posted by: rwa
» The Republican war profiteers don't want you to vote - so you agree with them?
Posted by: thoughtcriminal
» RE: California Democratic Senator Diane Feinstein Is Married To A War Profiteer
Posted by: cold2touch
» RE: The Republican war profiteers don't want you to vote - so you agree with them?
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» Kucinich is worthless as long as he remains in the Democratic Party
Posted by: CounterCorp
» And Your Alternative Is...?
Posted by: Sparks56
» RE: And Your Alternative Is...?
Posted by: CounterCorp
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Lincoln fan on Oct 2, 2006 5:51 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
First. I think that it's not necessary to have an organization and second, I think it's not necessary to raise money. And in fact I think that it's fundamentally wrong for an organization to collect money to try to buy an election.
Move On is trying to beat the system. I think we should try to change the system.
Move On has three million members, the labor unions have seventenn million members, third parties have several million members, the AARP has thirty million, the NAACP has I don't know how many more millions of members, and there are millions more not happy with the system who don't belong to any organization. The main thing that these often disparate groups agree on is that they don't like the system. If they want to change the system that many people in a true grassroots movement could do it. And they could do it in a matter of days.
The question boils down to this. Do we Americans want a republic or do we want a system that's run by special interest groups? Do we want our own special interest group to be able to buy political favor? In short do we want our government to be decided by money or by votes.
If you want to change the system join The Lincoln Initiative.
Bob Reichenbach.
Director, The Lincoln Initiative
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» RE: Do you want to beat the system or change the system?
Posted by: Roberta_RansleyMatteau
» RE: Do you want to beat the system or change the system?
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: Do you want to beat the system or change the system? (Yay! Look at me!)
Posted by: Artaraxl
» RE: Do you want to beat the system or change the system? (Yay! Look at me!)
Posted by: Lincoln fan
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Plexius on Oct 2, 2006 6:16 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I said, "I give my charity money to MoveOn."
She asked, "What's that?"
Before I could answer, the guy in the business suit behind me butted in with, "It's Communists!"
I was tempted to say, "And your wife is a pig!" because I figured he'd take a swing at me and I could legitimately put a Repug in the hospital. But I held my temper. The legal system here is dominated by Repugs from the cops in the street to the judges. Liberals get short shrift when it comes to justice and equality. But I think this example shows you who dominates Florida politics--semi-literate, rednecks who suck up Regressive propaganda like a pig sucking slop.
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» Often its because they are A. liars or B. wholly ignorant of anything outside of "communists"
Posted by: JoshuaLudd
» RE: My MoveOn Incident
Posted by: davidbdr
» Bush & Republicans Sovietize America While Calling Liberals Communists
Posted by: Douglas
» Ask them where their shoes are made
Posted by: eddie torres
» RE: My MoveOn Incident
Posted by: albrechtkrausse
» RE: My MoveOn Incident
Posted by: Plexius
Comments are closed-
Posted by: VZEQICVA on Oct 2, 2006 6:28 AM
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Posted by: wcscheurer on Oct 2, 2006 7:56 AM
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You are one of my journalist young stars. This is the most disappointing piece I have ever seen you write.
Yes, their toolset is awesome, and their impact is great. Yes, they try to pull their party toward the left.
But, you fail to recognize MoveOn for the party shill that it is. Give me PDA instead any day. At least, they are honest about it.
You write: "MoveOn’s ability to bundle small campaign contributions from tens of thousands of rank-and-file progressives and challenge candidates backed by the full weight of the American corporatocracy ..."
What about when they bait-and-switch to lull progressives into inadvertently supporting "candidates backed by the full weight of the American corporatocracy" just because these candidates are Democrats and MoveOn is a willing participant in the "take back the House" campaign?
Which are the 30 contested races that they are working on? Why don't they put this information front and center for everyone to see? Is it because they will support any Democrat in a close race, no matter how bad? Even Democrats who vote for the Iraq war, military courts, and warrantless surveillance?
You write: "What makes MoveOn's organizing model so threatening to those safely ensconced inside the Washington Beltway is that MoveOn, unlike its counterparts on the right, is largely bottom up, driven by constantly polling their members about which issues to focus on and which campaigns to support."
Really!? Their engine for this purpose is a silly diversion. Try wading through 60,000 entries to cast your vote. Why did they sit out the Iraq war for nearly two years, when most of their membership surge initially came from this issue? (See Norm Solomon's excellent pieces taking them to task on this on other points.)
Try getting in contact with their leadership (as a regular person, not as a journalist). MoveOn is a tightly controlled, inaccessible hierarchy that masquerades as a grassroots organization. Don't get me wrong. I participate in their events, when they present me with an issue I support.
But, recognize that they are a willing tool of the Democratic Party. VotersForPeace is a case in point. MoveOn leadership refuses to put this issue to its "membership" (which is really more of a giant mailing list in a strictly one-way flow of ideas). Why? Because the Iraq war busts wide open their Democratic fallacy that refuses to recognize the fact that nearly all of the party leadership are spineless "hawks" who capitulate to continued militarism in our society.
I sincerely hope you revisit this piece, dig in deeper, and show the other side too.
Respectfully,
Bill Scheurer
The PeaceMajority Report
www.PeaceMajority.org
Bill Scheurer for Congress
www.BringOurTroopsHome.com
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» Nonsense! Would Gore have invaded Iraq? No!
Posted by: thoughtcriminal
» RE: Nonsense! Would Gore have invaded Iraq? Obviously Yes
Posted by: rwa
» Well, Bill Clinton's going to name you as a Troll, so take that!
Posted by: edith
» Would 9/11 have happened if Gore was in office?
Posted by: thoughtcriminal
» RE: Well, Bill Clinton's going to name you as a Troll, so take that!
Posted by: yellow
» Fact Check Fact Check/DeTroll Please
Posted by: edith
» RE: Nonsense! Would Gore have invaded Iraq? No!
Posted by: oregoncharles
» Candidate Gore Didn't Want To Send 7 Year Old Elian Gonzalez to Live With His Father
Posted by: Douglas
» RE: U.S. Congressional Candidate
Posted by: oregoncharles
» RE: U.S. Congressional Candidate
Posted by: wcscheurer
» RE: U.S. Congressional Candidate
Posted by: HeroesAll
» MoveOn has its flaws but...
Posted by: launcher
» RE: U.S. Congressional Candidate
Posted by: Snott
» RE: U.S. Congressional Candidate
Posted by: leighsure
Comments are closed-
Posted by: aonghus36 on Oct 2, 2006 8:13 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
and Clinton were President, they were rarely refered to by their opponents as President Carter or President Clinton. The reason is that names, words and titles have a subtle power to effect the mentalities of people. It is the power of suggestion. The more Bush is referred to as "President Bush", the more his position as "Leader of the Free World" is strengthened. The more Carter and Clinton were referred to as "Mr.", the less presidential they were thought of. Let's start calling Dubya
in articles as "Mr. Bush", and give the conservatives a dose of their own medicine. This is a more powerful medicine than some might think, but it is a building medicine. It doesn't take effect overnight.
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» RE: Let's Stop Calling 'Dubya' President Bush.
Posted by: oregoncharles
» RE: Let's Stop Calling 'Dubya' President Bush.
Posted by: 1984NOW!!!
» RE: Let's Stop Calling 'Dubya' President Bush.
Posted by: davidbdr
» RE: Let's Stop Calling 'Dubya' President Bush.
Posted by: aonghus36
» RE: Let's Stop Calling 'Dubya' President Bush.
Posted by: redtango
» RE: Let's Stop Calling 'Dubya' President Bush.
Posted by: GK
» RE: Let's Stop Calling 'Dubya' President Bush.
Posted by: Snott
» RE: Let's Stop Calling 'Dubya' President Bush.
Posted by: aonghus36
Comments are closed-
Posted by: rwa on Oct 2, 2006 8:25 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As someone who spends a lot of time on the official web sites of our U.S. Senators, I can tell you without hesitation that if one of them casts a vote they are proud of, a press release will be up faster than George Felix Allen can spit out a racial slur.
Today, the 12 Democrats who checked their consciences at the Senate cloakroom and voted in favor of the Bush Administration's torture bill, have almost nothing to say about their votes. In case you haven't seen the roster of who voted with Republicans on this, here they are:
Thomas Carper (D-DE)
Tim Johnson (D-SD)
Mary Landrieu (D-LA)
Frank Lautenberg (D-NJ)
Joe Lieberman (D-CT)
Robert Menendez (D-NJ)
Bill Nelson (D-FL)
Ben Nelson (D-NE)
Mark Pryor (D-AR)
Jay Rockefeller (D-WV)
Ken Salazar (D-CO)
Debbie Stabenow (D-MI)
Of these, only four have issued press releases commenting on their vote and, amazingly, those who are talking spend most of the time sounding apologetic for a vote they obviously know they should not have cast.
"I think there are some unknown constitutional issues and it may take a review by the Supreme Court before we really know whether this approach has towed the line in terms of protecting the civil-liberties of American citizens or whether it has gone over the line," said Tim Johnson (D-SD), in a brief statement that can only leave us wondering why the hell he voted for it then.
Senator Ken Salazar (D-CO) expresses a whole bunch of concerns as well and yet voted to make Bush Torturer-in-Chief anyway.
“The bill I voted for today was the best bill we could reasonably expect in this highly charged political environment," said Salazar. "Due to the many controversial and far-reaching implications of this bill, I believe it would be appropriate to force Congressional review of this bill in five years. I have concerns with this bill, but on balance it meets my personal view of what America needs to get the job done.”
But some things never change, and here was the biggest DINO (Democrat in name only) in the Senate, Nebraska's Ben Nelson crowing about what a wonderful vote he cast and making this strange statement: “This compromise goes a long way in protecting the principles of the Geneva Conventions and establishes a standard of treatment that the world will follow.”
Yeah, I'm sure most other countries are gathering right now to rewrite their laws to follow our sterling example.
Finally, we have Joe Lieberman, who has a press release announcing his vote and setting the bar awfully low for what it takes for him to follow George W. Bush.
“I voted for this bill because I believe it is better than the Administration's original proposal to respond to the Supreme Court's Hamdan decision," said Lieberman. "I would have much preferred the bill we reported out of the Senate Armed Services Committee, and I supported amendments to this bill because they addressed concerns I had. I regret that they were rejected by the Senate.”
But Joe clearly did not regret it enough to vote the right way on the torture bill.
There's currently a big argument going on in the Progressive community on the tension between calling Democrats on stances that are so antithetical to what being a Democrat is supposed to mean and making Republicans positively gleeful by bashing our own side six weeks before a crucial election.
That's a tough call to make. But it seems reasonable to question why, on a vote that is such a bellwether on where American democracy stands in 2006, these 12 Senators cast deciding votes that they were unsure about or that, deep down, they flat-out knew were wrong.
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» RE: The Enabling Party & The Next Step
Posted by: NoPCZone
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Posted by: Ellie1 on Oct 2, 2006 8:25 AM
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» RE: Bush has finally inspired me/ DONATE, DONATE, DONATE
Posted by: 1984NOW!!!
» RE: Bush has finally inspired me
Posted by: launcher
Comments are closed-
Posted by: LuisaO on Oct 2, 2006 9:32 AM
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If you want real change, fund groups creating change!
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» RE: Day of Massive Resistance Against Bush Regime Oct. 5, 2006
Posted by: genetix03
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Posted by: kryptx on Oct 2, 2006 10:11 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Your entry here states that MoveOn.org raised over $9 million from 125,000 who donated an average of less than $50. But if 125,000 people donated $9 million, simple arithmetic tells us the average donation is $72. Did you mean something other than what I understood you to mean?
$72 still isn't a huge average donation; I'm just trying to understand your story (since it's rather contrary to my understanding of MoveOn) and my first step is making sure the pieces fit.
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» RE: Confused -- Explain?
Posted by: HeroesAll
» RE: Confused -- Mean vs Median?
Posted by: launcher
» RE: Confused -- Mean vs Median?
Posted by: kryptx
» RE: Confused -- Mean vs Median?
Posted by: Joshua Holland
Comments are closed-
Posted by: mba1957 on Oct 2, 2006 10:17 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
But now, perhaps we should be asking this question of the leadership of the party in control of both the executive branch and the legislative branch. The similarities between the draconian teachings of the Pope and the proposed legislation threatened by Congressional leadership and sanctioned by the executive are striking. For example, just prior to the 2004 election, the Vatican issued guidelines for Roman Catholic politicians that underlined the church's opposition to abortion, euthanasia, stem-cell research, and same-sex marriage and told Catholics not to promote laws that favor those practices. Lo and behold, many of the laws proposed since this papal edict reflect the Vatican's wishes.
In addition, Congressman Mark Foley who resigned several days ago from Congress, had been put in charge of a committee that protected exploited children after leadership knew of his proclivities with teenage boys. It is much like the Catholic hierarchy placing abusive priests in other parishes after problems arose in their former parishes. And recently, almost as an emphasis to George W. Bush's recent speeches in front of "friendly", hand-picked audiences where he mentions "Islamo-fascists" almost as much as the word "freedom", the Pope slams Islam. The Pope and the President are choreographed - they walk as one, in lock-step. This is a chilling prospect.
We should be outraged as Americans. We need to speak up and out. The Vatican should stay out of American politics. For the purposes of disclosure, I was baptized and confirmed in the Catholic church and am not anti-Catholic, I am merely honoring and respecting the Constitution above all else.
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» RE: The Vatican or the Constitution - you choose
Posted by: aonghus36
» RE: The Vatican or the Constitution - you choose: I'm with you!
Posted by: SamFox
» RE: The Vatican or the Constitution - you choose: I'm with you!
Posted by: albrechtkrausse
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Posted by: oregoncharles on Oct 2, 2006 10:29 AM
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Beware their self-promotion: I'm one of those "members", because I'm on their list, but I wouldn't dream of giving them money. I get their stuff so I can keep track: and once in a long while, they come up with something worth supporting.
However, I agree that it's a great model. We need a similar setup that really is progressive, and doesn't care what party a good candidate is from.
We could call it "Real Majority", because polls show consistent majorities for liberal ideas like single-payer health care that Democrats refuse to work for. (With all those votes to be had, why would that be? Could it be the $?)
There is only one national progressive party, and it's the Greens. If they "can't win", it's because YOU don't vote for them, or work for them.
And yes, they need all the help they can get.
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» RE: Moveon Progressive?
Posted by: reason
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Posted by: xi_people on Oct 2, 2006 11:06 AM
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If you look carefully at the DLC/DNC failures since 2000, it becomes very obvious that they aren't really trying to win. Both Gore and Kerry made big noises about "fighting for uncounted votes" then folded up like cheap tents. Both actually received more votes and won their respective elections. If they were serious about winning, why didn't they vigorously contest the obviously corrupt voting process?
That the DLC/DNC should distance themselves from the horrific policies of the current mis-administration is a given. Please don't suggest that they aren't smart enough to see and understand that. But that isn't their real purpose.
Acting as an actual opposition party is NOT part of the DLC/DNC platform. Their purpose is to fool people - many of them posting to this board - into believing that they're an opposition party, while continuing to support the current hawkish policies. Thus, those who want to engage in endless wars have complete control over both parties. They can't lose.
The bottom line: it doesn't matter which party "wins". Its all pretty much the same. Until the entire system gets up-ended, nothing will change.
I wish that more liberals realized that organizations like MoveOn and the DNC/DLC do not represent their interests - nor does the democratic party.
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» RE: Does MoveOn represent liberal interests? GOOD POST by xi_people!
Posted by: SamFox
» MoveOn, DNC and DLC Are Primarily AIPAC Likkudniks Who Represent Israel's Interests
Posted by: Douglas
» RE: MoveOn, DNC and DLC Are Primarily AIPAC Likkudniks Who Represent Israel's Interests
Posted by: yellow
» Did GIYUS Recruit You To Troll and Respond to Criticism of Israel and/or AIPAC?
Posted by: Douglas
» RE: MoveOn, DNC and DLC Are Primarily AIPAC Likkudniks Who Represent Israel's Interests
Posted by: edith
» RE: Does MoveOn represent liberal interests?
Posted by: LucyFur
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Posted by: sertelt on Oct 2, 2006 12:25 PM
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» RE: give me a break
Posted by: aonghus36
» RE: give me a break
Posted by: Joshua Holland
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Posted by: WhatNow? on Oct 2, 2006 4:08 PM
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I despised clinton because he was nothing more than a god damned conservative to me. bush has now shown how much better a god damn conservative is than a fucking nazi. I will continue to support the Libertarian party even though I lean towards socialism's economic principles.
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» RE: GOP and Vichy Democrats alike
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: GOP and Vichy Democrats alike
Posted by: oregoncharles
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Posted by: Piltdownman on Oct 3, 2006 6:04 AM
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The problem for groups like MO, is that they can, if they aren't careful, become nothing more than this; shorthand spin fodder. It tends to undermine their mission and it makes many candidates back away from them, for fear the connection will be used against them.
Piltdownman
Piltdown Man
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Posted by: LucyFur on Oct 3, 2006 2:29 PM
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Gore would have voted in favor of the occupation, like MoveOn's John Kerry did. Both of these "most liberal Democrats" supported the sanctions against the people of Iraq, resulting in hundreds of thousands of deaths. But would Gore have initiated it?
Moot question. That's the job for today's Repubs. The Dems' job is to make sure that people think they are an opposition but just powerless. They pretend to be "spineless," "afraid of their own shawdows," "timid," poor things (makes them seem harmless, doesn't it?)
The wishy-washy left bloggers (and you can find plenty of them on AlterNet) can't bring themselves to face the fact that the two main parties of the most powerful, dangerous, aggressive Empire the world has ever known are trading back and forth, playing good cop, bad cop at the expense of the world's people and the environment they inhabit. And the left has been going along too, convincing themselves that the Dems just need to be braver. Hey folks, don't fool yourselves, they have the cojones. Look what they've done in your name? It takes balls to slap your constituents in the face year after year. So stop saying they're weak! Did it occur to you that they might just be going along because they believe in it?
Kerry knew there were no WMDs, yet he supported the war for years until he put his political finger to the wind (The Pledge!). And did you know that top weapons inspector, Scott Ritter, begged him to vote against the invasion. Ritter gave Kerry an impressive stack of documents supporting the inspectors' position that Iraq had no WMDs and was not even close to being a military threat to the US, yet Kerry mouthed the lies, just like Bush did, and said Iraq had the weapons. Bush and Kerry have the same bosses, haven't you figured this out yet?
What did MoveOn's candidate Kerry do with this information from Ritter? He blocked Scott Ritter from taking it to Congress in the form of testimony. Again: A top weapons inspector begged MoveOn's candidate, John Kerry, to reasses his pro-war position and MoveOn's favorite candidate refused and the rest is history, bloody history.
So much for MoveOn.org. It's more than clear, they are a tool of the sold out Democratic Party. What they should have done is refused to support Kerry, period. They had the power to do this! With MoveOn's help, we could have forced the country in an entirely different direction. WE could have had a real movement. Instead, we are back where we started. Hillary Clinton will be our "choice" in 08.
What we need in this country is real resistance against entrenched power. MoveOn has demonstrated that they are not up to the job.
another interesting tidbit about Gore. I wanted to get to the bottom of his anti- global warming crusade. Could it be that pro-NAFTA, pro-big media, Al Gore has turned over a new leaf? Although he says he's not advocating nuclear energy, he certainly has been a cheerleader for it in the past. Do the research. Could he be a wolf in sheep's clothing? Maybe, maybe not. But I at least urge you to look into it rather than be led by MoveOn. This is serious.
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Posted by: bobweiss on Oct 3, 2006 9:51 PM
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Yet, when I check http://www.opensecrets.org/527s/
I see that moveon.org has received $2.6Million from George Soros. Peter Lewis of Progressive Insurance gave $2.5M. Hollywood's Stephen Bing gave $.97M, Herbert Sandler gave $2.5M.
More than half of their receipts came from 6 people.
What is really bizarre is the Soros money. His chief source of wealth is his Quantum Fund. This hedge fund is registered in the Netherland Antilles, a tax haven.
It is impossible to reconcile this representation of moveon.org as grassroot funding when a huge chunk of your budget comes from donations that were washed abroad tax free.
A more compelling case could be made that profits made from speculating on foreign currency are keeping moveon.org from sinking.
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» RE: soros funded is not grassroots
Posted by: PJH67
» I think I smell something
Posted by: edith
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Posted by: EmilyD on Oct 4, 2006 12:59 PM
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