COMMENTS: 131
Gas Prices Aren't Cheap, They're Volatile
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What the hell is going on here? Just six weeks ago, gasoline prices at the pump were hovering at the $3 per gallon mark; today, they're inching down toward $2 -- and some analysts predict even lower numbers before the November elections. The sharp drop in gas prices has been good news for consumers, who now have more money in their pockets to spend on food and other necessities -- and for President Bush, who has witnessed a sudden lift in his approval ratings.
Is this the result of some hidden conspiracy between the White House and Big Oil to help the Republican cause in the elections, as some are already suggesting? How does a possible war with Iran fit into the gas-price equation? And what do falling gasoline prices tell us about "peak-oil" theory, which predicts that we have reached our energy limits on the planet?
Since gasoline prices began their sharp decline in mid-August, many pundits have attempted to account for the drop, but none have offered a completely convincing explanation, lending some plausibility to claims that the Bush administration and its long-term allies in the oil industry are manipulating prices behind the scenes. In my view, however, the most significant factor in the downturn in prices has simply been a sharp easing of the "fear factor" -- the worry that crude oil prices would rise to $100 or more a barrel due to spreading war in the Middle East, a Bush administration strike at Iranian nuclear facilities, and possible Katrina-scale hurricanes blowing through the Gulf of Mexico, severely damaging offshore oil rigs.
As the summer commenced and oil prices began a steep upward climb, many industry analysts were predicting a late summer or early fall clash between the United States and Iran (roughly coinciding with a predicted intense hurricane season). This led oil merchants and refiners to fill their storage facilities to capacity with $70-80 per barrel oil. They expected to have a considerable backlog to sell at a substantial profit if supplies from the Middle East were cut off and/or storms wracked the Gulf of Mexico.
Then came the war in Lebanon. At first, the fighting seemed to confirm such predictions, only increasing fears of a region-wide conflict, possibly involving Iran. The price of crude oil approached record heights. In the early days of the war, the Bush administration tacitly seconded Israeli actions in Lebanon, which, it was widely assumed, would lay the groundwork for a similar campaign against military targets in Iran. But Hezbollah's success in holding off the Israeli military combined with horrific television images of civilian casualties forced leaders in the United States and Europe to intercede and bring the fighting to a halt.
We may never know exactly what led the White House to shift course on Lebanon, but high oil prices -- and expectations of worse to come -- were surely a factor in administration calculations. When it became clear that the Israelis were facing far stiffer resistance than expected, and that the Iranians were capable of fomenting all manner of mischief (including, potentially, total havoc in the global oil market), wiser heads in the corporate wing of the Republican Party undoubtedly concluded that any further escalation or regionalization of the war would immediately push crude prices over $100 per barrel. Prices at the gas pump would then have been driven into the $4-5 per gallon range, virtually ensuring a Republican defeat in the mid-term elections. This was still early in the summer, of course, well before peak hurricane season; mix just one Katrina-strength storm in the Gulf of Mexico into this already unfolding nightmare scenario and the fate of the Republicans would have been sealed.
In any case, President Bush did allow Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice to work with the Europeans to stop the Lebanon fighting and has since refrained from any overt talk about a possible assault on Iran. Careful never explicitly to rule out the military option when it comes to Iran's nuclear enrichment facilities, since June he has nonetheless steadfastly insisted that diplomacy must be given a chance to work. Meanwhile, we have made it most of the way through this year's hurricane season without a single catastrophic storm hitting the U.S.
For all these reasons, immediate fears about a clash with Iran, a possible spreading of war to other oil regions in the Middle East, and Gulf of Mexico hurricanes have dissipated, and the price of crude has plummeted. On top of this, there appears to be a perceptible slowing of the world economy -- precipitated, in part, by the rising prices of raw materials -- leading to a drop in oil demand. The result? Retailers have abundant supplies of gasoline on hand and the laws of supply and demand dictate a decline in prices.
Finding Energy in Difficult Places
How long will this combination of factors prevail?
Best guess: The slowdown in global economic growth will continue for a time, further lowering prices at the pump. This is likely to help retailers in time for the Christmas shopping season, projected to be marginally better this year than last precisely because of those lower gas prices.
Once the election season is past, however, President Bush will have less incentive to muzzle his rhetoric on Iran and we may experience a sharp increase in Ahmadinejad-bashing. If no progress has been made by year's end on the diplomatic front, expect an acceleration of the preparations for war already underway in the Persian Gulf area (similar to the military buildup witnessed in late 2002 and early 2003 prior to the U.S. invasion of Iraq). This will naturally lead to an intensification of fears and a reversal of the downward spiral of gas prices, though from a level that, by then, may be well below $2 per gallon.
Now that we've come this far, does the recent drop in gasoline prices and the seemingly sudden abundance of petroleum reveal a flaw in the argument for this as a peak-oil moment? Peak-oil theory, which had been getting ever more attention until the price at the pump began to fall, contends that the amount of oil in the world is finite; that once we've used up about half of the original global supply, production will attain a maximum or "peak" level, after which daily output will fall, no matter how much more is spent on exploration and enhanced extraction technology.
Most industry analysts now agree that global oil output will eventually reach a peak level, but there is considerable debate as to exactly when that moment will arise. Recently, a growing number of specialists -- many joined under the banner of the Association for the Study of Peak Oil -- are claiming that we have already consumed approximately half the world's original inheritance of 2 trillion barrels of conventional (i.e., liquid) petroleum, and so are at, or very near, the peak-oil moment and can expect an imminent contraction in supplies.
In the fall of 2005, as if in confirmation of this assessment, the CEO of Chevron, David O'Reilly, blanketed U.S. newspapers and magazines with an advertisement stating, "One thing is clear: the era of easy oil is over... Demand is soaring like never before... At the same time, many of the world's oil and gas fields are maturing. And new energy discoveries are mainly occurring in places where resources are difficult to extract, physically, economically, and even politically. When growing demand meets tighter supplies, the result is more competition for the same resources."
But this is not, of course, what we are now seeing. Petroleum supplies are more abundant than they were six months ago. There have even been some promising discoveries of new oil and gas fields in the Gulf of Mexico, while -- modestly adding to global stockpiles -- several foreign fields and pipelines have come on line in the last few months, including the $4 billion Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan (BTC) pipeline from the Caspian Sea to Turkey's Mediterranean coast, which will bring new supplies to world markets. Does this indicate that peak-oil theory is headed for the dustbin of history or, at least, that the peak moment is still safely in our future?
As it happens, nothing in the current situation should lead us to conclude that peak-oil theory is wrong. Far from it. As suggested by Chevron's O'Reilly, remaining energy supplies on the planet are mainly to be found "in places where resources are difficult to extract, physically, economically, and even politically." This is exactly what we are seeing today.
For example, the much-heralded new discovery in the Gulf of Mexico, Chevron's Jack No. 2 Well, lies beneath five miles of water and rock some 175 miles south of New Orleans in an area where, in recent years, hurricanes Ivan, Katrina, and Rita have attained their maximum strength and inflicted their greatest damage on offshore oil facilities. It is naive to assume that, however promising Jack No. 2 may seem in oil-industry publicity releases, it will not be exposed to Category 5 hurricanes in the years ahead, especially as global warming heats the Gulf and generates ever more potent storms. Obviously, Chevron would not be investing billions of dollars in costly technology to develop such a precarious energy resource if there were better opportunities on land or closer to shore -- but so many of those easy-to-get-at places have now been exhausted, leaving the company little choice in the matter.
Or take the equally ballyhooed BTC pipeline, which shipped its first oil in July, with top U.S. officials in attendance. This conduit stretches 1,040 miles from Baku in Azerbaijan to the Turkish Mediterranean port of Ceyhan, passing no less than six active or potential war zones along the way: the Armenian enclave of Nagorno-Karabakh in Azerbaijan; Chechnya and Dagestan in Russia; the Muslim separatist enclaves of South Ossetia and Abkhazia in Georgia; and the Kurdish regions of Turkey. Is this where anyone in their right mind would build a pipeline? Not unless you were desperate for oil, and safer locations had already been used up.
In fact, virtually all of the other new fields being developed or considered by U.S. and foreign energy firms -- ANWR in Alaska, the jungles of Colombia, northern Siberia, Uganda, Chad, Sakhalin Island in Russia's Far East -- are located in areas that are hard to reach, environmentally sensitive, or just plain dangerous. Most of these fields will be developed, and they will yield additional supplies of oil, but the fact that we are being forced to rely on them suggests that the peak-oil moment has indeed arrived and that the general direction of the price of oil, despite period drops, will tend to be upwards as the cost of production in these out-of-the-way and dangerous places continues to climb.
Living on the Peak-Oil Plateau
Some peak-oil theorists have, however, done us all a disservice by suggesting, for rhetorical purposes, that the peak-oil moment isÂ… well, a sharp peak. They paint a picture of a simple, steep, upward production slope leading to a pinnacle, followed by a similarly neat and steep decline. Perhaps looking back from 500 years hence, this moment will have that appearance on global oil production charts. But for those of us living now, the "peak" is more likely to feel like a plateau -- lasting for perhaps a decade or more -- in which global oil production will experience occasional ups and downs without rising substantially (as predicted by those who dismiss peak-oil theory), nor falling precipitously (as predicted by its most ardent proponents).
During this interim period, particular events -- a hurricane, an outbreak of conflict in an oil region -- will temporarily tighten supplies, raising gasoline prices, while the opening of a new field or pipeline, or simply (as now) the alleviation of immediate fears and a temporary boost in supplies will lower prices. Eventually, of course, we will reach the plateau's end and the decline predicted by the theory will commence in earnest.
In the meantime, for better or worse, we live on that plateau today. If this year's hurricane season ends with no major storms, and we get through the next few months without a major blowup in the Middle East, we are likely to start 2007 with lower gasoline prices than we've seen in a while. This is not, however, evidence of a major trend. Because global oil supplies are never likely to be truly abundant again, it would only take one major storm or one major crisis in the Middle East to push crude prices back up near or over $80 a barrel. This is the world we now inhabit, and it will never get truly better until we develop an entirely new energy system based on petroleum alternatives and renewable fuels.
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Posted by: rsaxto on Sep 29, 2006 12:27 AM
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» RE: $2OO
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» Perhaps a better way would be to...
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» Who's the driver
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» RE: $2OO
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» RE: $2OO..sickofsleaze
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» RE: $2OO..sickofsleaze
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» RE: $2OO... do I hear $1000?
Posted by: MartianBachelor
» RE: $2OO... do I hear $1000?
Posted by: saphil@yahoo.com
» RE: $2OO... do I hear $1000?
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» Get Physical - save a tree!
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Posted by: Temporary on Sep 29, 2006 12:50 AM
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» So we bomb Iran's oil fields, then what?
Posted by: sausage
» RE: So we bomb Iran's oil fields, then what?sickofsleaze
Posted by: ladybug1@carrollsweb.com
» RE: So we bomb Iran's oil fields, then what?
Posted by: symcokid
» RE: So we bomb Iran's oil fields, then what?..sickofsleaze
Posted by: ladybug1@carrollsweb.com
» RE: No worry! sickofsleaze..so does..
Posted by: ladybug1@carrollsweb.com
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Posted by: edith on Sep 29, 2006 1:00 AM
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Since wars disrupt oil markets and make futures traders nervous, the longterm trend is high prices for sure. That as Klare seems to suggest is a recipe for energy volatilty along with the inevitable decline in total supply even if "peace" were to break out for a while. Unfortunately, the primary role of oil in the world economy makes peace more of a wish than a real prospect.
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Posted by: ShoShenQ on Sep 29, 2006 4:08 AM
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assemble it in your browser for ref:
http://www.platts.com/HOME/
News/8632705.xml?S=printer&sub=HOME&p=HOME/News
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» If We Burn Oil for 140 More Years Humans Will Have Gone the Way of the Dinosaur
Posted by: Douglas
» Humans Will Have Gone the Way of the Dinosaur - ouch!
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» If You Scratch Very Deeply Beneath The Surface Appearance You Will Find Oil And Lots of It
Posted by: Douglas
» 140 yrs, where did you get that figure?
Posted by: jpinder
» I Got the 140 Years Figure From the Post I was Replying To! Didn't You Read It?
Posted by: Douglas
» RE: what about the saudi ?
Posted by: chinasdad
» quotas based on reserves
Posted by: AdamG
» RE: what about the saudi ?
Posted by: JohnF
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Posted by: SDres11 on Sep 29, 2006 6:20 AM
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» RE: Yata Yata Yata ! Why not just SHUT THE FUCKER UP and FIGHT TO LEGALIZE INDUSTRIAL HEMP ?!?
Posted by: Ranger
» Re: what the history and importance of industrial hemp is.
Posted by: NDnative
» RE: Yata Yata Yata ! Why not just SHUT THE FUCKER UP and FIGHT TO LEGALIZE INDUSTRIAL HEMP ?!?
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: Yata Yata Yata ! Why not just SHUT THE FUCKER UP and FIGHT TO LEGALIZE INDUSTRIAL HEMP ?!?sickof
Posted by: ladybug1@carrollsweb.com
» RE: Yata Yata Yata ! Why not just SHUT THE FUCKER UP and FIGHT TO LEGALIZE INDUSTRIAL HEMP ?!?sickof
Posted by: SDres11
» RE: Yata Yata Yata ! Why not just SHUT THE FUCKER UP and FIGHT TO LEGALIZE INDUSTRIAL HEMP ?!?sickof
Posted by: ladybug1@carrollsweb.com
» Alternet just can't learn to either post articles fighting for hemp or SHUT THE FUCK UP !!!
Posted by: NDnative
» RE: Yata Yata Yata ! Why not just SHUT THE FUCKER UP and FIGHT TO LEGALIZE INDUSTRIAL HEMP ?!?
Posted by: hot_rad_man
» RE: Stop kissing the DEA's ass and learn why hemp is not like the other bad drugs
Posted by: meetmeineleusis
» RE: Yata Yata Yata ! Why not just SHUT THE FUCKER UP and FIGHT TO LEGALIZE INDUSTRIAL HEMP ?!?
Posted by: meetmeineleusis
» RE: Yata Yata Yata ! Why not just SHUT THE FUCKER UP and FIGHT TO LEGALIZE INDUSTRIAL HEMP ?!?
Posted by: maxpayne
» RE: Yata Yata Yata ! Why not just SHUT THE FUCKER UP and FIGHT TO LEGALIZE INDUSTRIAL HEMP ?!?
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: Yata Yata Yata ! Why not just SHUT THE FUCKER UP and FIGHT TO LEGALIZE INDUSTRIAL HEMP ?!?
Posted by: AdamG
» Actually, since hemp can replace petroleum all the way, it is a cure all.
Posted by: maxpayne
» RE: Actually, since hemp can replace petroleum all the way, it is a cure all.
Posted by: techphile
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Posted by: Trazom on Sep 29, 2006 6:36 AM
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Just what if peak oil were a myth? What if we had enough oil to last the human race for thousands of years? The above article discusses a few deep oil wells that have been known to spontaneusly refill on their own, as if they were fed by larger fields deep inside the earth. The science behind this, based on 50 years of research by the Russians, is of course if largely ignored by Big Oil. They have demonstrated that petroleum can only be made at tremendous temperatures and pressures deep within the earth's surfce, so deep it would be in the upper layers of the mantle (~100km). This would make oil not even a fossil fuel. What do you think that would do to the price of oil, knowing that there was virtually a limitless supply of it at our disposal? Big Oil may have pulled the Big One over all of us, perhaps.
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» RE: Peak Oil a fabrication?
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» RE: Peak Oil a fabrication?
Posted by: edith
» RE: Peak Oil a fabrication?
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» We won't last a thousand years
Posted by: Heath
» RE: We won't last a thousand years
Posted by: Trazom
» RE: Peak Oil a fabrication?
Posted by: Iconoclast421
» RE: Peak Oil a fabrication?
Posted by: harris
» RE: Peak Oil a fabrication?
Posted by: harris
» RE: Peak Oil a fabrication?
Posted by: Trazom
» RE: Peak Oil a fabrication?
Posted by: techphile
» RE: Peak Oil a fabrication?
Posted by: Trazom
» RE: Peak Oil a fabrication?
Posted by: harris
» RE: Peak Oil a fabrication?
Posted by: Trazom
» RE: Peak Oil a fabrication?
Posted by: harris
» RE: Peak Oil a fabrication?
Posted by: tedbohne
» RE: Peak Oil a fabrication?
Posted by: yellow
» RE: Peak Oil a fabrication?
Posted by: harris
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Posted by: greyw on Sep 29, 2006 7:42 AM
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Looks very suspicious!
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» RE: Correlation between oil exec testifying in Congress and Price
Posted by: edith
» RE: Correlation between oil exec testifying in Congress and Price..sickofsleaze
Posted by: ladybug1@carrollsweb.com
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Posted by: monkeywrench on Sep 29, 2006 7:46 AM
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What is cited in the article as reasons for the drop in oil prices does not compute with how quickly prices are falling. For the "free market" (which in actuality does not exist) to be causing the rapid drop in oil prices, we would have to be entering a depression; something that has not happened – yet.
It stretches the imagination that the author would not suspect that an administration with intimate ties to the oil industry, one that has been the most secretive, deliberately manipulative and dishonest in history, would not influence the price of oil for political gain. Media articles such as this, feigning innocence, are one reason why Bush and his fellow criminals have not been removed from office.
Sorry Mr. Klare; you will never convince me that we are not being gamed once again –– and the proof will be when gas prices go back up right after the mid-term elections. Count on it.
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» you will never convince me that we are not being gamed once again
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: Who are you trying to kid, Mr. Klare?!..sickofsleaze
Posted by: ladybug1@carrollsweb.com
» I was reading an article last week about this
Posted by: WhatNow?
» RE: Who are you trying to kid, Mr. Klare?!
Posted by: yellow
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Posted by: AdamG on Sep 29, 2006 8:25 AM
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How is humanity going to cope when it loses nitrogen-based fertilizer? When synthetic nitrogen fertilizer is no longer feasible, food protein yields will be a fourth of what they are now. Sure, there will be leeway if we don't waste so much food, process the hell out of it, and feed it to livestock, etc. but there is no avoiding the consequence of less food and more people. It's called starvation.
Even if there was lots of oil, enough to burn for centuries longer, our evironment would burn, and possibly in response to the warming, go into an ice age. Then we'll all be living in an inferno for a short ime until we run to huddle in a cave to wait out the ice age. Sounds fun.
People and governments are squandering precious time. If we don't start addressing these issues soon, paying over $100 to fill the Hummer will be the least of our worries.
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» "How is humanity going to cope when it loses nitrogen-based fertilizer?"
Posted by: WhatNow?
» there's a natural limit to natural nitrogen
Posted by: AdamG
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Posted by: Guy on Sep 29, 2006 8:35 AM
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Guy
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» RE: Coincidence?..sickofsleaze...No
Posted by: ladybug1@carrollsweb.com
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Posted by: NDnative on Sep 29, 2006 8:43 AM
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Ok, of course everybody is aware of the oil crisis further caused by America doing one war for oil after another. But hey, Mr. TAXachussetts CLARE, instead of only whining and moaning about volatile gas prices, why not learn something new and use your goddamn intelligence to put translate that knowledge into a better article relating volatile gas prices and the need to legalize INDUSTRIAL HEMP !
And here's the site for all of you wondering why some of us are potty mouths:
http://www.hempcar.org/petvshemp.shtml
It's bad enough that Ted Kennedy fought to stop efforts to get wind energy going because he too was in bed with the "cheap" gas special interests !
Now when the fuck will Alternet start posting articles supporting the legalization of hemp? I'd like this site but they seem to be stuck in the framed trap ! All their talk about global warming is nothing but BIG GOVERNMENT BULLSHIT talk without discussing the need to legalize hemp and get the US the fuck off its dependence on foreign oil !!!
Sorry I'm an angry disaffected voter hating both sellout parties!
P.S.: In North Dakota, even conservatives joined the liberals to make legal the cultivation of hemp and Governor John Hoeven signed the bill into law with strong approval. Alternet should either bring in articles supporting the need to legalize hemp or SHUT THE FUCK UP !!!
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» RE: HEY ALTERNET and the TAXACHUSSETTS whiner, here's a solution !!!
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: HEY ALTERNET and the TAXACHUSSETTS whiner, here's a solution !!!
Posted by: maxpayne
» RE: HEY ALTERNET and the TAXACHUSSETTS whiner, here's a solution !!!
Posted by: yellow
» Agree 10,000% NDnative
Posted by: Michiganman
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Posted by: rwa on Sep 29, 2006 9:11 AM
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"The U.S. Govt’s
Secret Colorado
Oil Discovery
Hidden 1,000 feet beneath the surface of the Rocky Mountains lies the largest untapped oil reserve in the world — more than 2 TRILLION barrels. On August 8, 2005 President Bush mandated its extraction. Three companies have been chosen to lead the way. Test drilling has already begun:-
Five months ago, the U.S. Energy Department announced the results of a land survey.It was conducted to determine the official amount of oil a thousand feet deep in the Rocky Mountains.
They reported this stunning news:
We have more oil inside our borders, than all the other proven reserves on earth.
Here are the official estimates:
8-times as much oil as Saudi Arabia
18-times as much oil as Iraq
21-times as much oil as Kuwait
22-times as much oil as Iran
500-times as much oil as Yemen
And it’s all right here in the Western United States.
James Bartis, lead researcher with the study says, “We’ve got more oil in this very compact area than the entire Middle East.”
More than 2 TRILLION barrels. Untapped. “That’s more than all the proven oil reserves of crude oil in the world today,” reports The Denver Post.
When asked about America’s least-publicized oil supply, Utah Senator Orrin Hatch said “The amounts of oil are staggering. Who would have guessed that in just Colorado and Utah, there is more recoverable oil than in the Middle East?”
Here’s the kicker The U.S. government already owns the land. It’s been right there under our noses the whole time.
In fact, the government’s appointed a small group of companies to begin the drilling.
Test drilling has already begun.
And the profit forecasts are ridiculous. According to the RAND Corporation (a public-policy think tank for the government), this small region can produce:
Three million barrels of oil per day… That translates into more than $20 BILLION a year.
These are the conservative estimates. The U.S. Energy Dept. estimates an eventual output of 10 million barrels of oil per day. "
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» RE: This Author is a Hoaxster...sickofsleaze
Posted by: ladybug1@carrollsweb.com
» RE: CO oil shale
Posted by: MartianBachelor
» RE: This Author is a Hoaxster
Posted by: aebartle
» RE: This Author is a Hoaxster
Posted by: rwa
» RE: This Author is a Hoaxster
Posted by: HeroesAll
» Tar sands and oil shale are very poor fuel sources for a number of reasons
Posted by: Ike Solem
» But what's the energy cost and the CO2 emissions?
Posted by: Ike Solem
» RE: This Author is a Hoaxster
Posted by: rwa
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Posted by: hot_rad_man on Sep 29, 2006 9:28 AM
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» RE: The Devil Bush Controls Gas Prices!
Posted by: symcokid
» Don't forget Valero!
Posted by: AdamG
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Posted by: Ike Solem on Sep 29, 2006 9:37 AM
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By HEATHER TIMMONS and CARTER DOUGHERTY
Published: September 25, 200
"Other market watchers noted that prices for oil for future delivery, which some economists use for their planning purposes, have not fallen as much as spot prices, and that most futures contracts continue to hover around $66 a barrel.
“The story is still very much the same for the futures market,” said Eoin O’Callaghan, an oil analyst with BNP Paribas. “That points to more expensive oil in the coming months.”
There are two oil markets - the spot and futures market, which is also how many other commodities are sold. What is interesting here is that the futures contracts are generally thought to be cheaper than spot prices - for example, a farmer will often prefer a guaranteed future sale at a lower price to a higher price on the 'right now' spot market.
If futures stay high while the spot market decreases, you are really looking at a very temporary phenomenon; thus one can expect gasoline prices to rise sometime in November.
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» Lot of words signify nothing!
Posted by: hot_rad_man
» Futures and spots revisited
Posted by: Ike Solem
» RE: New York Times Sept 25 story
Posted by: Sparks56
» RE: New York Times Sept 25 story
Posted by: Ike Solem
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Posted by: sofla100 on Sep 29, 2006 10:21 AM
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» RE: Just Republicans Trying to Hold Off November Slaughter sickofsleaze
Posted by: ladybug1@carrollsweb.com
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Posted by: BlueTigress on Sep 29, 2006 11:24 AM
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He thinks it's because there are enough Bush fans there to make the state a Repug shoo-in.
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» RE: Not down everywhere
Posted by: Trazom
» RE: Not down everywhere
Posted by: MartianBachelor
» RE: Not down everywhere
Posted by: Trazom
» RE: Not down everywhere...sickofsleaze
Posted by: ladybug1@carrollsweb.com
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Posted by: StuartH on Sep 29, 2006 11:42 AM
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Tar and Shale in Canada and elsewhere do contain some possible oil reserves, but the price of extraction is currently horrendous, both economically and environmentally.
The author is right. We have a few decades during which the appearance of things won't change much - although if China and India develop a lot more Los Angeles style traffic jams, there will be demand pressure on the price worldwide just from that.
We are at least twenty five years behind where we should be with the development of alternatives to petroleum. One can date this to the time when Ronald Reagan, after taking office, ripped out the solar collectors that Jimmy Carter had installed on the White House roof.
Bush especially, seems to be an activist for the oil industry. It seems obvious that we have gone to war and conquered a country in the Middle East in order to maintain control over the oil under it. For two decades Federal policy has been used to suppress the development of alternatives.
The essence of proper Federal policy would be to create all the various kinds of incentives possible to empower individuals and communities to pursue entreprenuerial innovation on their own terms. The alternative is to give subsidies to the largest corporations who act only when they see a large scale profit center. The larger the corporation and the economy of scale, the less likely individuals and communities can participate, and that solutions will be found.
Somehow, the logjam has to break loose. Our present oil industry-dictated policies are setting us up for a difficult time in the not too distant future. They will suck us dry and leave us to survive in a disadvantaged situation. They don't care.
We need representatives in Congress who are on our side.
Don't vote for anyone with oil money among contributors.
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Posted by: Iconoclast421 on Sep 29, 2006 1:37 PM
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» RE: waterboarding
Posted by: Gakl
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Posted by: rwa on Sep 29, 2006 1:52 PM
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Analysis by the US Department of Energy (DoE) - seen by Newsnight - shows that at $50 a barrel Venezuela - not Saudi Arabia - will have the biggest oil reserves in Opec.
Venezuela has vast deposits of extra-heavy oil in the Orinoco. Traditionally these have not been counted because at $20 a barrel they were too expensive to exploit - but at $50 a barrel melting them into liquid petroleum becomes extremely profitable.
The DoE report shows that at today's prices Venezuela's oil reserves are bigger than those of the entire Middle East - including Saudi Arabia, the Gulf states, Iran and Iraq.
In the future Venezuela won't have any more oil - but that's in the 22nd Century
Hugo Chavez
The US agency also identifies Canada as another future oil superpower.
Venezuela's deposits alone could extend the oil age for another 100 years.
The DoE estimates that the Venezuelan government controls 1.3 trillion barrels of oil - more than the entire declared oil reserves of the rest of the planet.
Mr Chavez told Newsnight that "Venezuela has the largest oil reserves in the world. In the future Venezuela won't have any more oil - but that's in the 22nd Century."
He will ask the Opec meeting in June to formally accept that Venezuela's reserves are now bigger than Saudi Arabia's.
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Posted by: Sparks56 on Sep 29, 2006 2:07 PM
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Gas prices are down because of the election!!!!!
Major oil companies and the governments they are in bed with, especially the Saudis, have a vested interest in maintaining the Republican majority in the US Congress. They feel they can go a long way toward that end by lowering prices. They see the temporary loss in profits as a worthwhile investment in future higher demand and much higher prices/profits.
That is why the price of gas is down.
For the moment.
For the election.
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» RE: It's An Election!!
Posted by: cinattra
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Posted by: vangogh69 on Sep 29, 2006 2:26 PM
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Am I a dreamer? Yes. Is another reality possible? I believe it is.
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Posted by: sofla100 on Sep 29, 2006 4:49 PM
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» RE: Americans Really Pay More for Gas Then Europe
Posted by: HeroesAll
» RE: Americans Really Pay More for Gas Then Europe
Posted by: AdamG
» RE: Americans Really Pay More for Gas Then Europe
Posted by: Sparks56
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Posted by: Ike Solem on Sep 29, 2006 6:43 PM
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However, hydrogen fuel cells may play important roles in balancing electrical loads. If you run everything on solar and wind, you have a serious problem - you might want power when the wind isn't blowing and the sun isn't shining. A 'renewable energy grid' would have to have mechanisms built in for storing energy - and hydrogen fuel cells combined solar/wind powered water electrolyzers may be the best tools for that purpose.
We do have the technology - we can rebuild the grid better than it was before.
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» RE: Hydrogen is like electricity - it has to be generated
Posted by: cinattra
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Posted by: Sparks56 on Sep 29, 2006 6:53 PM
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Please, its time for you to go off to bed.
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Posted by: Sparks56 on Sep 29, 2006 6:54 PM
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Posted by: ecotopian on Sep 29, 2006 9:52 PM
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Posted by: gerdhansel on Sep 30, 2006 2:25 PM
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These incompetents couldn't punch their way out of a wet paper bag if they were wearing brass knuckles.
But the oil barons are certainly capable of temporarily lowering gas prices to protect their friends.
I recall a television interview a few years back when Prince Bandar of Saudi Arabia admitted that the Saudi Royal family had in fact done exactly that to help incumbents like Jimmy Carter and Ronald Reagan get reelected. (Didn't help Carter much. No Democratic President has successfully commanded a complex, large-scale military operation successfully since LBJ).
The Saudi royal family prize stability above all things in their most important market, namely the USA. They don't want a Democratic party-controlled House of Representatives issuing subpoenas and holding hearings and generally rocking the boat for their friends in the White House.
So the Saudis are willing to open the oil spigots for the three months leading up to pivoltal elections, as long as they can jack prices back up before Thanksgiving and gouge New Englanders for home heating oil costs.
It's a kind of international quid-pro-quo. The Saudis will never admit it, but as long as American troops are pinned down in Iraq, Shia Iranians will have a hard time invading Sunni Saudi Arabia and seizing control of the oild fields there.
As long as Iraq remains unstable, their oil stays in the ground and the Saudis can charge whatever the hell they want for their oil.
And now that the Bush Administration has appeased wealthy Saudi bad boy Osama bin Laden by moving America's permanent bases from Saudi soil to Iraq, the Saudis and their frieinds in the Carlyle Group are once again shiny, happy campers.
Like we used to say during the Vietnam years, "War is good business, invest your sons." Only now we're investing our daughters too.
Business booms while the dream that was America goes to hell in a handbasket.
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Posted by: maxpayne on Sep 30, 2006 8:56 PM
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At least now you can't say that Arnold supports alternative renewables anymore !
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» Lets Fix Prices!
Posted by: TWilliams
» RE: Lets Fix Prices!
Posted by: harris
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Posted by: rsaxto on Sep 29, 2006 12:27 AM
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» RE: $2OO
Posted by: edith
» Perhaps a better way would be to...
Posted by: Colin
» RE: Perhaps a better way would be to...
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: Perhaps a better way would be to...
Posted by: meetmeineleusis
» Who's the driver
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Perhaps a better way would be to...
Posted by: marxalot
» RE: $2OO
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: $2OO..sickofsleaze
Posted by: ladybug1@carrollsweb.com
» RE: $2OO..sickofsleaze
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: $2OO... do I hear $1000?
Posted by: MartianBachelor
» RE: $2OO... do I hear $1000?
Posted by: saphil@yahoo.com
» RE: $2OO... do I hear $1000?
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» Get Physical - save a tree!
Posted by: Conservasaurus
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Posted by: Temporary on Sep 29, 2006 12:50 AM
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» So we bomb Iran's oil fields, then what?
Posted by: sausage
» RE: So we bomb Iran's oil fields, then what?sickofsleaze
Posted by: ladybug1@carrollsweb.com
» RE: So we bomb Iran's oil fields, then what?
Posted by: symcokid
» RE: So we bomb Iran's oil fields, then what?..sickofsleaze
Posted by: ladybug1@carrollsweb.com
» RE: No worry! sickofsleaze..so does..
Posted by: ladybug1@carrollsweb.com
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Posted by: edith on Sep 29, 2006 1:00 AM
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Since wars disrupt oil markets and make futures traders nervous, the longterm trend is high prices for sure. That as Klare seems to suggest is a recipe for energy volatilty along with the inevitable decline in total supply even if "peace" were to break out for a while. Unfortunately, the primary role of oil in the world economy makes peace more of a wish than a real prospect.
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Posted by: ShoShenQ on Sep 29, 2006 4:08 AM
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assemble it in your browser for ref:
http://www.platts.com/HOME/
News/8632705.xml?S=printer&sub=HOME&p=HOME/News
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» If We Burn Oil for 140 More Years Humans Will Have Gone the Way of the Dinosaur
Posted by: Douglas
» Humans Will Have Gone the Way of the Dinosaur - ouch!
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» If You Scratch Very Deeply Beneath The Surface Appearance You Will Find Oil And Lots of It
Posted by: Douglas
» 140 yrs, where did you get that figure?
Posted by: jpinder
» I Got the 140 Years Figure From the Post I was Replying To! Didn't You Read It?
Posted by: Douglas
» RE: what about the saudi ?
Posted by: chinasdad
» quotas based on reserves
Posted by: AdamG
» RE: what about the saudi ?
Posted by: JohnF
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Posted by: SDres11 on Sep 29, 2006 6:20 AM
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» RE: Yata Yata Yata ! Why not just SHUT THE FUCKER UP and FIGHT TO LEGALIZE INDUSTRIAL HEMP ?!?
Posted by: Ranger
» Re: what the history and importance of industrial hemp is.
Posted by: NDnative
» RE: Yata Yata Yata ! Why not just SHUT THE FUCKER UP and FIGHT TO LEGALIZE INDUSTRIAL HEMP ?!?
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: Yata Yata Yata ! Why not just SHUT THE FUCKER UP and FIGHT TO LEGALIZE INDUSTRIAL HEMP ?!?sickof
Posted by: ladybug1@carrollsweb.com
» RE: Yata Yata Yata ! Why not just SHUT THE FUCKER UP and FIGHT TO LEGALIZE INDUSTRIAL HEMP ?!?sickof
Posted by: SDres11
» RE: Yata Yata Yata ! Why not just SHUT THE FUCKER UP and FIGHT TO LEGALIZE INDUSTRIAL HEMP ?!?sickof
Posted by: ladybug1@carrollsweb.com
» Alternet just can't learn to either post articles fighting for hemp or SHUT THE FUCK UP !!!
Posted by: NDnative
» RE: Yata Yata Yata ! Why not just SHUT THE FUCKER UP and FIGHT TO LEGALIZE INDUSTRIAL HEMP ?!?
Posted by: hot_rad_man
» RE: Stop kissing the DEA's ass and learn why hemp is not like the other bad drugs
Posted by: meetmeineleusis
» RE: Yata Yata Yata ! Why not just SHUT THE FUCKER UP and FIGHT TO LEGALIZE INDUSTRIAL HEMP ?!?
Posted by: meetmeineleusis
» RE: Yata Yata Yata ! Why not just SHUT THE FUCKER UP and FIGHT TO LEGALIZE INDUSTRIAL HEMP ?!?
Posted by: maxpayne
» RE: Yata Yata Yata ! Why not just SHUT THE FUCKER UP and FIGHT TO LEGALIZE INDUSTRIAL HEMP ?!?
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: Yata Yata Yata ! Why not just SHUT THE FUCKER UP and FIGHT TO LEGALIZE INDUSTRIAL HEMP ?!?
Posted by: AdamG
» Actually, since hemp can replace petroleum all the way, it is a cure all.
Posted by: maxpayne
» RE: Actually, since hemp can replace petroleum all the way, it is a cure all.
Posted by: techphile
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Posted by: Trazom on Sep 29, 2006 6:36 AM
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Just what if peak oil were a myth? What if we had enough oil to last the human race for thousands of years? The above article discusses a few deep oil wells that have been known to spontaneusly refill on their own, as if they were fed by larger fields deep inside the earth. The science behind this, based on 50 years of research by the Russians, is of course if largely ignored by Big Oil. They have demonstrated that petroleum can only be made at tremendous temperatures and pressures deep within the earth's surfce, so deep it would be in the upper layers of the mantle (~100km). This would make oil not even a fossil fuel. What do you think that would do to the price of oil, knowing that there was virtually a limitless supply of it at our disposal? Big Oil may have pulled the Big One over all of us, perhaps.
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» RE: Peak Oil a fabrication?
Posted by: symcokid
» RE: Peak Oil a fabrication?
Posted by: edith
» RE: Peak Oil a fabrication?
Posted by: Trazom
» We won't last a thousand years
Posted by: Heath
» RE: We won't last a thousand years
Posted by: Trazom
» RE: Peak Oil a fabrication?
Posted by: Iconoclast421
» RE: Peak Oil a fabrication?
Posted by: harris
» RE: Peak Oil a fabrication?
Posted by: harris
» RE: Peak Oil a fabrication?
Posted by: Trazom
» RE: Peak Oil a fabrication?
Posted by: techphile
» RE: Peak Oil a fabrication?
Posted by: Trazom
» RE: Peak Oil a fabrication?
Posted by: harris
» RE: Peak Oil a fabrication?
Posted by: Trazom
» RE: Peak Oil a fabrication?
Posted by: harris
» RE: Peak Oil a fabrication?
Posted by: tedbohne
» RE: Peak Oil a fabrication?
Posted by: yellow
» RE: Peak Oil a fabrication?
Posted by: harris
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Posted by: greyw on Sep 29, 2006 7:42 AM
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Looks very suspicious!
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» RE: Correlation between oil exec testifying in Congress and Price
Posted by: edith
» RE: Correlation between oil exec testifying in Congress and Price..sickofsleaze
Posted by: ladybug1@carrollsweb.com
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Posted by: monkeywrench on Sep 29, 2006 7:46 AM
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What is cited in the article as reasons for the drop in oil prices does not compute with how quickly prices are falling. For the "free market" (which in actuality does not exist) to be causing the rapid drop in oil prices, we would have to be entering a depression; something that has not happened – yet.
It stretches the imagination that the author would not suspect that an administration with intimate ties to the oil industry, one that has been the most secretive, deliberately manipulative and dishonest in history, would not influence the price of oil for political gain. Media articles such as this, feigning innocence, are one reason why Bush and his fellow criminals have not been removed from office.
Sorry Mr. Klare; you will never convince me that we are not being gamed once again –– and the proof will be when gas prices go back up right after the mid-term elections. Count on it.
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» you will never convince me that we are not being gamed once again
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: Who are you trying to kid, Mr. Klare?!..sickofsleaze
Posted by: ladybug1@carrollsweb.com
» I was reading an article last week about this
Posted by: WhatNow?
» RE: Who are you trying to kid, Mr. Klare?!
Posted by: yellow
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Posted by: AdamG on Sep 29, 2006 8:25 AM
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How is humanity going to cope when it loses nitrogen-based fertilizer? When synthetic nitrogen fertilizer is no longer feasible, food protein yields will be a fourth of what they are now. Sure, there will be leeway if we don't waste so much food, process the hell out of it, and feed it to livestock, etc. but there is no avoiding the consequence of less food and more people. It's called starvation.
Even if there was lots of oil, enough to burn for centuries longer, our evironment would burn, and possibly in response to the warming, go into an ice age. Then we'll all be living in an inferno for a short ime until we run to huddle in a cave to wait out the ice age. Sounds fun.
People and governments are squandering precious time. If we don't start addressing these issues soon, paying over $100 to fill the Hummer will be the least of our worries.
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» "How is humanity going to cope when it loses nitrogen-based fertilizer?"
Posted by: WhatNow?
» there's a natural limit to natural nitrogen
Posted by: AdamG
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Posted by: Guy on Sep 29, 2006 8:35 AM
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Guy
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» RE: Coincidence?..sickofsleaze...No
Posted by: ladybug1@carrollsweb.com
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Posted by: NDnative on Sep 29, 2006 8:43 AM
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Ok, of course everybody is aware of the oil crisis further caused by America doing one war for oil after another. But hey, Mr. TAXachussetts CLARE, instead of only whining and moaning about volatile gas prices, why not learn something new and use your goddamn intelligence to put translate that knowledge into a better article relating volatile gas prices and the need to legalize INDUSTRIAL HEMP !
And here's the site for all of you wondering why some of us are potty mouths:
http://www.hempcar.org/petvshemp.shtml
It's bad enough that Ted Kennedy fought to stop efforts to get wind energy going because he too was in bed with the "cheap" gas special interests !
Now when the fuck will Alternet start posting articles supporting the legalization of hemp? I'd like this site but they seem to be stuck in the framed trap ! All their talk about global warming is nothing but BIG GOVERNMENT BULLSHIT talk without discussing the need to legalize hemp and get the US the fuck off its dependence on foreign oil !!!
Sorry I'm an angry disaffected voter hating both sellout parties!
P.S.: In North Dakota, even conservatives joined the liberals to make legal the cultivation of hemp and Governor John Hoeven signed the bill into law with strong approval. Alternet should either bring in articles supporting the need to legalize hemp or SHUT THE FUCK UP !!!
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» RE: HEY ALTERNET and the TAXACHUSSETTS whiner, here's a solution !!!
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: HEY ALTERNET and the TAXACHUSSETTS whiner, here's a solution !!!
Posted by: maxpayne
» RE: HEY ALTERNET and the TAXACHUSSETTS whiner, here's a solution !!!
Posted by: yellow
» Agree 10,000% NDnative
Posted by: Michiganman
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Posted by: rwa on Sep 29, 2006 9:11 AM
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"The U.S. Govt’s
Secret Colorado
Oil Discovery
Hidden 1,000 feet beneath the surface of the Rocky Mountains lies the largest untapped oil reserve in the world — more than 2 TRILLION barrels. On August 8, 2005 President Bush mandated its extraction. Three companies have been chosen to lead the way. Test drilling has already begun:-
Five months ago, the U.S. Energy Department announced the results of a land survey.It was conducted to determine the official amount of oil a thousand feet deep in the Rocky Mountains.
They reported this stunning news:
We have more oil inside our borders, than all the other proven reserves on earth.
Here are the official estimates:
8-times as much oil as Saudi Arabia
18-times as much oil as Iraq
21-times as much oil as Kuwait
22-times as much oil as Iran
500-times as much oil as Yemen
And it’s all right here in the Western United States.
James Bartis, lead researcher with the study says, “We’ve got more oil in this very compact area than the entire Middle East.”
More than 2 TRILLION barrels. Untapped. “That’s more than all the proven oil reserves of crude oil in the world today,” reports The Denver Post.
When asked about America’s least-publicized oil supply, Utah Senator Orrin Hatch said “The amounts of oil are staggering. Who would have guessed that in just Colorado and Utah, there is more recoverable oil than in the Middle East?”
Here’s the kicker The U.S. government already owns the land. It’s been right there under our noses the whole time.
In fact, the government’s appointed a small group of companies to begin the drilling.
Test drilling has already begun.
And the profit forecasts are ridiculous. According to the RAND Corporation (a public-policy think tank for the government), this small region can produce:
Three million barrels of oil per day… That translates into more than $20 BILLION a year.
These are the conservative estimates. The U.S. Energy Dept. estimates an eventual output of 10 million barrels of oil per day. "
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» RE: This Author is a Hoaxster...sickofsleaze
Posted by: ladybug1@carrollsweb.com
» RE: CO oil shale
Posted by: MartianBachelor
» RE: This Author is a Hoaxster
Posted by: aebartle
» RE: This Author is a Hoaxster
Posted by: rwa
» RE: This Author is a Hoaxster
Posted by: HeroesAll
» Tar sands and oil shale are very poor fuel sources for a number of reasons
Posted by: Ike Solem
» But what's the energy cost and the CO2 emissions?
Posted by: Ike Solem
» RE: This Author is a Hoaxster
Posted by: rwa
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Posted by: hot_rad_man on Sep 29, 2006 9:28 AM
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» RE: The Devil Bush Controls Gas Prices!
Posted by: symcokid
» Don't forget Valero!
Posted by: AdamG
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Posted by: Ike Solem on Sep 29, 2006 9:37 AM
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By HEATHER TIMMONS and CARTER DOUGHERTY
Published: September 25, 200
"Other market watchers noted that prices for oil for future delivery, which some economists use for their planning purposes, have not fallen as much as spot prices, and that most futures contracts continue to hover around $66 a barrel.
“The story is still very much the same for the futures market,” said Eoin O’Callaghan, an oil analyst with BNP Paribas. “That points to more expensive oil in the coming months.”
There are two oil markets - the spot and futures market, which is also how many other commodities are sold. What is interesting here is that the futures contracts are generally thought to be cheaper than spot prices - for example, a farmer will often prefer a guaranteed future sale at a lower price to a higher price on the 'right now' spot market.
If futures stay high while the spot market decreases, you are really looking at a very temporary phenomenon; thus one can expect gasoline prices to rise sometime in November.
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» Lot of words signify nothing!
Posted by: hot_rad_man
» Futures and spots revisited
Posted by: Ike Solem
» RE: New York Times Sept 25 story
Posted by: Sparks56
» RE: New York Times Sept 25 story
Posted by: Ike Solem
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Posted by: sofla100 on Sep 29, 2006 10:21 AM
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» RE: Just Republicans Trying to Hold Off November Slaughter sickofsleaze
Posted by: ladybug1@carrollsweb.com
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Posted by: BlueTigress on Sep 29, 2006 11:24 AM
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He thinks it's because there are enough Bush fans there to make the state a Repug shoo-in.
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» RE: Not down everywhere
Posted by: Trazom
» RE: Not down everywhere
Posted by: MartianBachelor
» RE: Not down everywhere
Posted by: Trazom
» RE: Not down everywhere...sickofsleaze
Posted by: ladybug1@carrollsweb.com
Comments are closed-
Posted by: StuartH on Sep 29, 2006 11:42 AM
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Tar and Shale in Canada and elsewhere do contain some possible oil reserves, but the price of extraction is currently horrendous, both economically and environmentally.
The author is right. We have a few decades during which the appearance of things won't change much - although if China and India develop a lot more Los Angeles style traffic jams, there will be demand pressure on the price worldwide just from that.
We are at least twenty five years behind where we should be with the development of alternatives to petroleum. One can date this to the time when Ronald Reagan, after taking office, ripped out the solar collectors that Jimmy Carter had installed on the White House roof.
Bush especially, seems to be an activist for the oil industry. It seems obvious that we have gone to war and conquered a country in the Middle East in order to maintain control over the oil under it. For two decades Federal policy has been used to suppress the development of alternatives.
The essence of proper Federal policy would be to create all the various kinds of incentives possible to empower individuals and communities to pursue entreprenuerial innovation on their own terms. The alternative is to give subsidies to the largest corporations who act only when they see a large scale profit center. The larger the corporation and the economy of scale, the less likely individuals and communities can participate, and that solutions will be found.
Somehow, the logjam has to break loose. Our present oil industry-dictated policies are setting us up for a difficult time in the not too distant future. They will suck us dry and leave us to survive in a disadvantaged situation. They don't care.
We need representatives in Congress who are on our side.
Don't vote for anyone with oil money among contributors.
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Posted by: Iconoclast421 on Sep 29, 2006 1:37 PM
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» RE: waterboarding
Posted by: Gakl
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Posted by: rwa on Sep 29, 2006 1:52 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Analysis by the US Department of Energy (DoE) - seen by Newsnight - shows that at $50 a barrel Venezuela - not Saudi Arabia - will have the biggest oil reserves in Opec.
Venezuela has vast deposits of extra-heavy oil in the Orinoco. Traditionally these have not been counted because at $20 a barrel they were too expensive to exploit - but at $50 a barrel melting them into liquid petroleum becomes extremely profitable.
The DoE report shows that at today's prices Venezuela's oil reserves are bigger than those of the entire Middle East - including Saudi Arabia, the Gulf states, Iran and Iraq.
In the future Venezuela won't have any more oil - but that's in the 22nd Century
Hugo Chavez
The US agency also identifies Canada as another future oil superpower.
Venezuela's deposits alone could extend the oil age for another 100 years.
The DoE estimates that the Venezuelan government controls 1.3 trillion barrels of oil - more than the entire declared oil reserves of the rest of the planet.
Mr Chavez told Newsnight that "Venezuela has the largest oil reserves in the world. In the future Venezuela won't have any more oil - but that's in the 22nd Century."
He will ask the Opec meeting in June to formally accept that Venezuela's reserves are now bigger than Saudi Arabia's.
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Posted by: Sparks56 on Sep 29, 2006 2:07 PM
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Gas prices are down because of the election!!!!!
Major oil companies and the governments they are in bed with, especially the Saudis, have a vested interest in maintaining the Republican majority in the US Congress. They feel they can go a long way toward that end by lowering prices. They see the temporary loss in profits as a worthwhile investment in future higher demand and much higher prices/profits.
That is why the price of gas is down.
For the moment.
For the election.
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» RE: It's An Election!!
Posted by: cinattra
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Posted by: vangogh69 on Sep 29, 2006 2:26 PM
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Am I a dreamer? Yes. Is another reality possible? I believe it is.
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Posted by: sofla100 on Sep 29, 2006 4:49 PM
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» RE: Americans Really Pay More for Gas Then Europe
Posted by: HeroesAll
» RE: Americans Really Pay More for Gas Then Europe
Posted by: AdamG
» RE: Americans Really Pay More for Gas Then Europe
Posted by: Sparks56
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Posted by: Ike Solem on Sep 29, 2006 6:43 PM
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However, hydrogen fuel cells may play important roles in balancing electrical loads. If you run everything on solar and wind, you have a serious problem - you might want power when the wind isn't blowing and the sun isn't shining. A 'renewable energy grid' would have to have mechanisms built in for storing energy - and hydrogen fuel cells combined solar/wind powered water electrolyzers may be the best tools for that purpose.
We do have the technology - we can rebuild the grid better than it was before.
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» RE: Hydrogen is like electricity - it has to be generated
Posted by: cinattra
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Posted by: Sparks56 on Sep 29, 2006 6:53 PM
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Please, its time for you to go off to bed.
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Posted by: Sparks56 on Sep 29, 2006 6:54 PM
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Posted by: ecotopian on Sep 29, 2006 9:52 PM
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Posted by: gerdhansel on Sep 30, 2006 2:25 PM
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These incompetents couldn't punch their way out of a wet paper bag if they were wearing brass knuckles.
But the oil barons are certainly capable of temporarily lowering gas prices to protect their friends.
I recall a television interview a few years back when Prince Bandar of Saudi Arabia admitted that the Saudi Royal family had in fact done exactly that to help incumbents like Jimmy Carter and Ronald Reagan get reelected. (Didn't help Carter much. No Democratic President has successfully commanded a complex, large-scale military operation successfully since LBJ).
The Saudi royal family prize stability above all things in their most important market, namely the USA. They don't want a Democratic party-controlled House of Representatives issuing subpoenas and holding hearings and generally rocking the boat for their friends in the White House.
So the Saudis are willing to open the oil spigots for the three months leading up to pivoltal elections, as long as they can jack prices back up before Thanksgiving and gouge New Englanders for home heating oil costs.
It's a kind of international quid-pro-quo. The Saudis will never admit it, but as long as American troops are pinned down in Iraq, Shia Iranians will have a hard time invading Sunni Saudi Arabia and seizing control of the oild fields there.
As long as Iraq remains unstable, their oil stays in the ground and the Saudis can charge whatever the hell they want for their oil.
And now that the Bush Administration has appeased wealthy Saudi bad boy Osama bin Laden by moving America's permanent bases from Saudi soil to Iraq, the Saudis and their frieinds in the Carlyle Group are once again shiny, happy campers.
Like we used to say during the Vietnam years, "War is good business, invest your sons." Only now we're investing our daughters too.
Business booms while the dream that was America goes to hell in a handbasket.
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Posted by: maxpayne on Sep 30, 2006 8:56 PM
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At least now you can't say that Arnold supports alternative renewables anymore !
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» Lets Fix Prices!
Posted by: TWilliams
» RE: Lets Fix Prices!
Posted by: harris
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