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Fundamentalist Camp Trains God's Little Army

By Evan Derkacz, AlterNet. Posted September 28, 2006.


The directors of the new documentary 'Jesus Camp' discuss the good, the bad, and the disharmony in the evangelical community.
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God's Little Army

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They have billions in media holdings, the ear of the president, and the ability to make or break a Republican candidacy. To Becky Fischer, however, former manager of a custom sign business and current children's minister, evangelicals are in danger of losing the next generation. Unimpressed by the fact that 43 percent of America's 100 million evangelicals accepted Christ before the age of 13, Fischer set out to ensure that a new generation of Americans are instilled with a "Christian worldview." "If we wait until they are teens," she remarks, "we have waited too late!"

You've probably seen the ads on the internet of an all-American girl, eyes skyward, the spitting image of a beatific Medieval icon painting. Against the backdrop of the Samuel Alito hearings, "Jesus Camp" follows 11-year-old Tory and a pack of young campers at Kids On Fire Summer Camp, which is the basic training for "God's army." Fischer is Kids On Fire's drill sergeant, and her mission is to empower kids to heal "this ... sick old world." Fischer's zeal is infectious, her belief unshakable, and her will strong. It's not difficult to see why the filmmakers were delighted to find her.

The kids, some of whom are jarringly precocious ("Because I just wanted more of life," one says), are respectful and supportive of one another, attentive to their elders and as humorously oblivious about the secular world as most AlterNet readers are about the evangelical reality. A clip over the closing credits features a young girl who approaches a pair of elderly gentlemen in folding chairs to ask if they know where they're going when they die. After they confidently assert that they're going to heaven, the girl wanders away, uttering offhand to her companion that she thought they might be Muslims.

The age of the kids (some as young as 6 years old) combined with Fischer's bellicose language (she openly refers to their mission as "war"), will undoubtedly make some, as filmmaker Heidi Ewing says below, "pretty uncomfortable." In that sense, "Jesus Camp" doubles as a perfectly entertaining horror flick for secular progressives -- or anyone outside the evangelical community, for that matter. But to leave it at that would be wildly off the mark and just as parochial as the triumphalist evangelicals depicted.

I've argued in PEEK that, just as progressives urge fearful conservatives to probe the phenomenon of terrorism, so must secular progressives probe the activist evangelical mindset. On the other hand, it's natural for a nonevangelical to be utterly turned off by some of the politically charged elements of the film, most of which are aired without counterpoint.

My response to Jesus Camp is similar to the nagging feeling that followed Errol Morris' brilliant Fog of War. That film, you'll recall, was essentially a conversation with Vietnam-era Secretary of Defense Robert Strange McNamara. The 86-year-old McNamara comes off looking like a contrite old man, consumed by self-deception, peppered with startling statements like, "We were behaving as war criminals."

My desire for a ferocious counterargument and an overarching condemnation left me feeling nervous about whether the proper gravity had been afforded the subject. Likewise, although "Jesus Camp" includes a few clips from Air America's liberal Christian host, Mike Papantonio, the rhetoric of Becky Fischer, Ted Haggard and the rest of the film's cast of characters simply sits on screen; take it or leave it.

In the final tally, access has its price, and art should not be polemical. Filmmakers Heidi Ewing and Rachel Grady sought to make art and received access in exchange. That access ironically provides opponents with a great deal of insight into this political powerhouse, should they choose to approach it with courage and the desire to see the community's humanity. As they say below, "If people have a problem with what they're doing then they should take a page out of the playbook and start to get involved themselves." Amen.

In most cases, Ewing and Grady, who are close friends as well as co-directors, spoke as any couple would. Which is to say, over each other and finishing each other's sentences. When it was important to separate their responses, I did so (as in the case with their backgrounds). Otherwise, the answers can be seen as a coming from "the directors." -- Ed.

Derkacz: So what inspired you to make "Jesus Camp"? Why now?

Heidi and I were looking for a story about children and faith, and we were inspired by a child from our last film, the "Boys of Baraka," Devon, who was a Baptist preacher, a 12-year-old. He really provoked us to start thinking about where faith comes from: Why is one kid more devout than another? Where does that come from? How does that happen?


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Evan Derkacz is AlterNet's associate editor and writer of PEEK, the blog of blogs.

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What a bunch Idiots
Posted by: spacemarine83 on Sep 28, 2006 12:14 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Talk about morons, nevermind the child-abuse issues... instead look at the people who will be running our country someday. Jackbooted assholes who would be just as likely kill a person for personal, political and monitary gain. Oh wait, just like Bush... F-ing religion, we dont need it!

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» RE: What a bunch Idiots Posted by: otto
» Achtung, Baby Posted by: Philip Newton
» RE: Achtung, Baby Posted by: mike1997
» RE: Achtung, Baby Posted by: Philip Newton
» RE: Achtung, Baby Posted by: Bibs
» RE: Achtung, Baby Posted by: punkbuster
» Semantics and clarity Posted by: LMNOP
» RE: Achtung, Baby Posted by: kungfuma
» Re: we are outnumbered by the idiots Posted by: velvel of atlanta
» RE: What a bunch Idiots Posted by: mostacks
» RE: What a bunch Idiots Posted by: billfaster
» Creation and Evolution Posted by: dna
» RE: What a bunch Idiots Posted by: Bibs
» RE: What a bunch Idiots Posted by: spacemarine83
faith
Posted by: rsaxto on Sep 28, 2006 12:32 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think the whole idea of faith and its attached dogmas consists of an error of judgement in faithful people. We should be so attached to reality that we can do the right thing scientifically and morally without believing in dogmas most of which are false. In addition, using the word war in a religious context is a clear indicator that the particular faith using it is going down an immoral and destructive path which will harm humanity rather than helping us. All societies obscessed with war are creating their own doom.

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» RE: faith Posted by: Philip Newton
» RE: faith Posted by: mikewarren
homegrown fundamentalist
Posted by: ShoShenQ on Sep 28, 2006 1:39 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
way to go america !!

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home boy
Posted by: rock on Sep 28, 2006 2:24 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
religion is for heretics(sic) [I don't know how to spell]
get that?

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home boy
Posted by: rock on Sep 28, 2006 2:44 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
religion is for heretics(sic) [I don't know how to spell]
get that?
religion has to do with belief.
politics has to do with being polite.
Should we be polite or be beligerent?

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» RE: home boy Posted by: ConnecttheDots
» RE: home boy Posted by: 10wwjd29
home boy
Posted by: rock on Sep 28, 2006 2:50 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
religion is for heretics(sic) [I don't know how to spell]
get that?
religion has to do with belief.
politics has to do with being polite.
Should we be polite or be belligerent?

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» RE: home boy Posted by: Bibs
America's little Red Guards
Posted by: Moonray on Sep 28, 2006 4:01 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Those of us of a certain age remember the Red Guards, the fanatical youngsters who terrorized China on behalf of Mao Tse-tung.

Those of us even older remember the Hitler Youth that goose-stepped in support of the Nazis' conquest of Europe.

These little Jesus freaks are cut from the same cloth as their German and Chinese cousins -- as well as their radical Moslem cousins now burning U.S. flags around the world.

Unfortunately, Americans have elevated superstition, in the form of religion, to equality with reason in our culture and in our government. That error is the source of many of our problems at home and abroad.

As long as religion is treated as a valid belief system equally deserving of respect and legal legitmacy as logic and science, our society will continue its drift toward theocratic tyranny and political foolishness.

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» RE: America's little Red Guards Posted by: Benjaminsjw
» mao and stalin were atheists Posted by: gerdhansel
» Hitler & Mao Posted by: vangogh69
» RE: mao and stalin were atheists..sickofsleaze Posted by: ladybug1@carrollsweb.com
» RE: America's little Red Guards Posted by: billfaster
» RE: America's little Red Guards Posted by: Tiffany Twain
brainwashing
Posted by: SekhmetsatRa on Sep 28, 2006 4:41 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"if your brain is so dirty, why object to having it washed?"
A C Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

any time i see, hear or read "brainwashing", i think of that quote...

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» RE: brainwashing Posted by: aislinnluv
» RE: brainwashing Posted by: SekhmetsatRa
» RE: brainwashing Posted by: aislinnluv
» RE: brainwashing Posted by: SekhmetsatRa
» RE: brainwashing Posted by: aislinnluv
» RE: brainwashing Posted by: Trazom
» RE: brainwashing Posted by: SekhmetsatRa
beware
Posted by: aislinnluv on Sep 28, 2006 4:51 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
make no mistake - these are dangerous people. children are very vulnerable to indoctrination by unscrupulous elders, whether their parents or others to whom their parents entrust them. for children to be so politicized as to rejoice at the resignation of Sandra Day O'Connor is alarming. children should be allowed a period of innocence, a time when they can look around and discover the world without the stresses that will become a part of their daily lives as adults. these children are being robbed of that, forced to assume anxieties about the fate of a world that cannot be enhanced by this regimentation and thought-policing. what happens if a child speaks out in opposition to some of these extreme tenets? do they all unanimously accept everything they are told or is there a child that asks questions? what happens then? i fear for these children and i fear for the country and the world if this type of brainwashing is allowed to continue.

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» RE: beware Posted by: markusmark
» RE: beware Posted by: aislinnluv
» RE: beware Posted by: Sparks56
Fundamentalists thrive on fear and
Posted by: wawa on Sep 28, 2006 5:20 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It has been said that evolution is being held up by fundamentalism and the surge of fundamentalism throughout all faith paths sends shivers through cynical atheists and mystics alike. The bumper sticker actually did get it right: "We are spiritual beings having a human experience."

According to the 1987 classic, "The Different Drum: Community Making and Peace", Dr. Scott Peck defines the spiritual life as fluid and that one may pass back and forth repeatedly through any of the four-probably more-stages of the soul.

Stage one upon this journey -that begins from within-is essentially our infancy in the spiritual life. Like a wild child, a person in this stage reflects the inner chaotic and anti-social, unregenerate soul that is interested only in its own self-satisfaction and ego, much like the stereotypical spoiled child. Stage one people may claim to love others, but their behavior reflects they love their own pleasure, money, power, prestige, and security above any other. For stage one people, it really is all about them.

The good news is that the vast majority of humanity responds to that inner tug which is God, for lack of a better word. Katherine of Sienna wrote that within us all is the divine diamond. But life and all our baggage dulls the flame of our divine brilliance. Stage two souls seek to "let their light shine" and will live virtuous lives and do many good works. They also can be judgmental of others, self-righteous, rigid of thought, cold of heart, legalistic concrete literal thinkers and may even be guilty of a lukewarm faith. They want to do right and they even may desire to love and please God, but have not yet fully opened up to the Inner Light, as Joan of Ark did when she challenged church and state and persisted that she had intuited God within even as she was fried.

Stage two souls have not yet been set fully free and prefer the security of a higher human authority than themselves for guidance. They submit to institutions, scripture, dogma, ritual, ministers, or gurus. This is the most appropriate stage for older children and most adults who live busy lives just trying to keep bread on the table and a dry roof above.

The difference between a stage one and stage two soul, is that a one wouldn't even notice a neighbor in need, while the two has awoken to the fact that we are to be our neighbor's keepers and they will respond to a friend-and like the good Samaritan, even to a total stranger in need.

Most theologians would agree that the opposite of faith is not disbelief: the opposite of faith is fear.


Stage three souls have not just fearlessly awoken, they have evolved! This evolution has led them to the realization...

-Excerpted from "Mystics in the Marketplace"
http://www.opednews.com/author/author1112.html

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scary
Posted by: aislinnluv on Sep 28, 2006 6:00 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
i just saw the woman who runs this camp on good morning america (for the second day in a row). believe me, folks, this woman is frightening! she inveighs against disney as being filled with witches... (ok, have any of us grown into monsters watching disney films or reading grimm?) she castigates the harry potter books as worshipping a warlock, the "enemy of god" (so far as i know, the main characters of the books are pretty decent characters, and the bad guys, though also witches, are identifiable, separable, and in opposition to the good witches). harking back to the salem trials and other famous witch hunts, it is obvious when people are stigmatized by labels solely because they aren't hewing to the same party line as the labellers. the twisted thinking this woman exhibits is the same kind of thinking that could bring about another kristallnacht.

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» AGREE 10,000%, aislinluv Posted by: Michiganman
These people are for real
Posted by: Dale Dressler on Sep 28, 2006 6:01 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In Will Campbell's book, Brother a Dragonfly, he tells of his time marching with Martin Luther King and fighting for civil rights. At the end of the book he sits on the front porch with the leader of the KKK and talks with him to learn about his journey and to try to understand him. Campbell wonders, as an individual, when did he do the most good.

These people are real and they are not going away. Rather than berate thier views and call them names as many of of the posters have done, maybe we should try learn about thier jorney and try to understand them. The filmeakers have given us a wonderful opoortunity to do just that.

I would also recomend another great documentary to try to understand conservative Christians. Its called Hell House. (The conservative Christian alternative to Haunted Houses) Take particular notice toward the end when some foul mothed "liberal" youths try to bait one of the organizers of Hell House. I know who I would like to spend a day with rocking on his front porch and have a civilized conversation.

I also worry that reactionary liberals might also lump the rest of us "Camp" people into the same group as the folks you see in Jesus Camp. I am the director of a United Church of Christ Camp in Indiana. I can tell you that we erected a peace pole this summer and - along with thousands of other camps this past summer used the Natioinal Council of Churches curriculum, "Peace Talks". We are doing good work for the future of our planet. These people are for real and if we don't stop making war with them with nasty words and rather try to understand them and influence our children in a more civilized manner we are indeed in trouble.

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» so are my concerns Posted by: aislinnluv
I wonder where this is going (Part I)
Posted by: LMNOP on Sep 28, 2006 6:11 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"They have billions in media holdings, the ear of the president, and the ability to make or break a Republican candidacy. "

Yet, to hear them tell it, they are an oppressed, persecuted minority that just wants every else to stop trying to obliterate God from their lives.

"If we wait until they are teens," she remarks, "we have waited too late!"

This is *so* Hitler youth.

""Jesus Camp" doubles as a perfectly entertaining horror flick for secular progressives "

Yeah, Dawn of the Dead. "More brains!"

"just as progressives urge fearful conservatives to probe the phenomenon of terrorism, so must secular progressives probe the activist evangelical mindset."

Muslim terrorists and politicized conservative evangelicals: what's the difference? Let's see: both fundamentalist zealots (check), both on a holy crusade (check), both have training and indoctrination camps (check), both think that they are fighting for God (check), both unwilling to listen to anyone outside of their group and intolerant of other views (check). [Other Christians need not be offended - this is not a criticism of your faith, but of a conservative political movement in its name.]

"they don't consider themselves political at all. So they take issue with the concept that they're politically active, although we maintain that what they consider a moral life -- you know, doing "God's will" -- appears political to a lot of people."

This is a major crock of horse excrement. Doing God's will appears political? Not if what you mean by doing God's will is living a private life decently.

But if you include rewriting the school curricula, diverting tax dollars to evangelistic projects, enacting biblical laws and standards regarding abortion and profanity, directing domestic cloning policy and world reproductive policy according to biblical standards, posting religious doctrine in courtrooms and schools, stuffing the Congress and courts with conservative Christian activists. If you include any of that, well, then "just doing God's" will is pretty friggin' political.

"what they consider a moral life -- you know, doing "God's will" -- appears political to a lot of people. [They believe t]hat the Constitution is based on the Ten Commandments"

What better evidence that these people have completely surrendered their ability to think and have substituted the judgment of their propagandists that they are not political or that the Constitution has anything to do with the Ten Commandments? There is ZERO overlap between those documents.

One tells individuals what to do (honor parents, observe the Sabbath) and not do (steal, kill, envy, worship false idols). The other tells what the purpose of a government is and how that government will be organized - nothing about right and wrong or do and don't.

But it suits their reverie that it be so, and so it is declared and so it is absorbed, uncritically.

"they believe that their vote counts and that they can make changes, and they're going to do that until further notice"

But they're not political. They don't have a political agenda. How uninsightful is that? ("Yes, more brains.")

To those Christians who consider religion a personal choice and not something to impose on the community at large, these people are trouble just as to we American liberals, the present government is big trouble. They're big trouble because they don't represent our viewpoints and they make us look bad to outsiders (non-Christians and non-Americans) who don't make distinctions between what we in the minority believe and what is done in our name against our wills by the empowered elites.

CONT.

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» AGREE 10,000% ssegallmd Posted by: Michiganman
Constitution based on Ten Commandments?
Posted by: Trazom on Sep 28, 2006 6:18 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Well, there's an inherent problem here, which is that there is a massive number of Americans who do believe that the founding fathers intended to found a much more Christian state. That the Constitution is based on the Ten Commandments. There are a lot of people who will tell you that, who believe that to be true.

Can someone please tell me where in the US Constitution there is a reference to anything contained in the Ten Commandments? I am really at a loss at that statement.

I saw a bumper sticker the other day and if I were to ever buy one this would be it:

"Rational thought is my religion".

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The Kids are Alright
Posted by: YogiBear on Sep 28, 2006 6:19 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm not as worried about the kids as others are. You know, the bigger the setup, the harder they'll fall.

That's because doing everything God's way puts an enormous pressure on individuals to be good, when we're all just fumbling our way through life. Those of us who aren't Christian soldiers make mistakes, admit them and are on our way. But in God's camp, no one can make mistakes of faith, because if they do, their community will set upon them like a pack of wolves.

I thought the hypocrisy of the excessively faithful was pretty accurately portrayed in the a dark comedy "Saved." So, for most of these kids, they'll leave the camp with their spirits in the air and somewhere down the line, life will bring it back down for them. Kids aren't stupid -- if there's anything less than truthful being taught at that camp, they'll figure it out.

Sure, some of them will go one to spout theology and take the world by storm, but most are just doing what their parents think is right and probably will end up bigger sinners than their schoolmates. Like those kids who sign abstinence pledges; the "failure" rate is higher than kids who don't sign. Maybe because they're more honest with their parents, maybe because they're more honest with themselves.

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» RE: The Kids are Alright Posted by: Domokun
» RE: The Kids are Alright Posted by: Techubus
» RE: The Kids are Alright Posted by: yellow
» RE: The Kids are Alright Posted by: vangogh69
» RE: The Kids are Alright Posted by: yellow
» RE: The Kids are Alright Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: The Kids are Alright Posted by: toddaa
» RE: The Kids are Alright Posted by: yellow
The bible in part is a book of war
Posted by: jpinder on Sep 28, 2006 6:22 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There are alsmost 1000 references of violence in the babble, so it is for me a book of war and revenge, no surprise there really.

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/cruelty/long.html

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Yes, this is abuse - brain washing/mind control.
Posted by: symcokid on Sep 28, 2006 6:39 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Bringing out a cutout silouhette of the "Anti Christ", George W. Bush, so as to solicit praise and adoration is sick and abuse. This is a captive young impressionable Jesus Camp audience, tying it in with War and Onward Christian Soldier religious dogma is abhorrent and scary!

Diane Sawyer of Good Morning America did two segments on this Evangelical propaganda.

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First Hand Experience!!!
Posted by: lively56 on Sep 28, 2006 6:40 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I can tell everyone from first hand experience what brainwashing can do to a young mind. I was raised Amish, and I can tell you that the fear of hell was instilled in me at an early age. I can still remember a statement my father made to one of my older Bro's, as if he said it today. That was about 40 years ago. My Bro. wanted to go out in the world and explore what was out there. My dad told him that he would rather bury him 6 feet under in the front yard then see him go out in the world. I was 13 years old at the time. I thought to myself then, what an aweful statement that was. It took me another 6 years to get up enough courage to rid myself of that type of tyranny. Let me tell you, all the nice things you here about the Amish are a bunch of bunk. There is so much abuse and rape of the young children, it boggles the mind. But somehow they have so much power over law enforcement, that they just look the other way.

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» Interesting Posted by: Philip Newton
» "Not Encouraged" Posted by: AdamSelene40
» RE: Interesting Posted by: lively56
» RE: Interesting Posted by: Philip Newton
» RE: Interesting Posted by: Plexius
» RE: Interesting Posted by: sloopy312
» RE: Interesting Posted by: Plexius
Christianity is a mental illness
Posted by: rhinojos on Sep 28, 2006 6:46 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What else can you say about people that adhere to teachings of a "bible" that is based on borrowed fairy tales form various cultures throughout the ages and re-packaged as something called Christianity? Very delusional!

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» RE: Christianity is a mental illness Posted by: Philip Newton
» RE: Christianity is a mental illness Posted by: Philip Newton
Holy Rollers
Posted by: ccluelessfl60 on Sep 28, 2006 6:58 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Holy Rollers is what we called them years ago when they had store front churches and they are still holy rollers.

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Laurence
Posted by: peaceyogi on Sep 28, 2006 7:34 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
From Book: HOW TO KNOW GOD
Page 173
CHAPTER III
POWERS (Read #40)
40. By controlling the nerve-currents that govern the lungs and the upper part of the body, the yogi can walk on water and swamps, or on thorns and similar objects, and he can die at will.

41. By controlling the force which governs the prana, he can surround himself with a blaze of light.

This is the force which regulates the various functions of the vital energy (prana). One of the brother-disciples of Sri Ramakrishna actually had this power; and it is recorded that he once used it to light the path for Ramakrishna on a dark night. However, Ramakrishna later found it necessary to take the power away from him because it was making him dangerously egotistic.



42. By making samyama on the relation between the ear and the ether, one obtains supernatural powers of hearing.

43. By making samyama on the relation between the body and the ether, or by acquiring through meditation the lightness of cotton fiber, the yogi can fly through the air.

44. By making samyama on the thought-waves of the mind when it is separated from the body-the state known as the Great Disincarnation-all coverings can be removed from the light of knowledge.

Like aphorism 39, this refers to the yoga power of withdrawing the mind from one's own body in order to make it pass into the body of another. In this state of withdrawal, the "Great Disincarnation," the mental coverings composed of rajas and tamas dwindle away and the light of sattwa is revealed.

45. By making samyama on the gross and subtle forms of the elements, on their essential characteristics and the inherence of the gunas in them, and on the experiences they provide for the individual, one gains mastery of the elements.

46. Hence one gains the power of becoming as tiny as an atom and all similar powers; also perfection of the body, which is no longer subject to the obstructions of the elements.

Not only can the yogi become as tiny as an atom but as huge as a mountain, as heavy as lead, or as light as air. And the elements cease to obstruct him. He can pass through rock. He can hold his hand in the fire, unburned. He can walk through water, unwetted. He can stand firm against a hurricane.

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» WOW pass some of that..... Posted by: Michiganman
An Open & Questioning Mind
Posted by: NoPCZone on Sep 28, 2006 7:37 AM   
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The best thing any parent can give their kid is an open and questioning mind that does not accept things just because someone tells them to but because there is a real and compelling body of evidence. The blind acceptance of dogma, anyone's dogma, is not in the interest of any person or society as a whole.

Extremism and radicalism are fueled by blind acceptance of their version of the truth. They oppose and fear and open and informed mind as it will undermine their fear and lies.

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The christian Madrassas
Posted by: rixter on Sep 28, 2006 7:44 AM   
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Something I didn't see mentioned in the previews I've seen of the film "Jesus Camp" and that I doubt is fully explored in the documentary is the intense pressure that was put on these 'willing' children before they appeared on film looking so comfortable with their plight. As a young boy I was once sent to what was then (60's) referred to as a christian 'retreat'. It was actually a 4 day intense brainwashing attempt, culminating nightly in massed meetings in an assembly hall where small children were threatened with hell's torments and exhorted to grovel before the cults altar in 'surrender to god' and to 'accept Jesus as your saviour'. The mental and emotional pressure cooker atmosphere was intense and I now realize very much purposely crafted. Hysterical children were crying all around me and trudging towards the stage to obey the speaker, with what later degree of commitment I do not know. I do know now as a middle-aged adult that my strength of will in resisting those imprecations and indoctrinations was in part my own 'personal saviour' and I have never forgotten the experience. How much worse the conditions under which these children live? I had a few days of it, these children of fundamentalists experience it daily from earliest memory and can only escape at adulthood if at all. If they seem to wear their chains of indoctrination lightly, remember they have often carried them from earliest memory.

Make no mistake, there is -no- difference between the Muslim, Christian and Jewish radical fundamentalists except in the details of their dogma. All are addicted to and dependent on their cults, all are quite certain they carry the One True Word in their book, and every last one believes sincerely that they are gods chosen messengers and therefore not responsible for the harm they do and the violence they support, -all- crave the power only a state theocracy can wield to enforce their belief system on others and to oppress non-believers. And every last one of them do all they can to raise their children in an atmosphere where their chosen dogmas are the only beliefs known, seen, discussed, understood, or accepted. Intolerance of ideas outside their dogma is the one universal truth every last one of these cults share. And contrary to what you will often hear, most of that intolerance is directed inwards towards their own families and peers, with constant examination and interrogation of belief and behavior, and quick criticism and punishment for 'sins' against the 'sacred' belief system. Organized religion and corporate plutocracy are the two most violent, oppressive and thoroughly evil forces threatening human society today. May God, if he is watching, give us the grace to save ourselves from them both.
www.RixterTech.com

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» RE: The christian Madrassas Posted by: symcokid
» RE: The christian Madrassas Posted by: freerain
» RE: The christian Madrassas Posted by: rixter
» RE: The christian Madrassas Posted by: DaBear
PALOOKA
Posted by: PALOOKA on Sep 28, 2006 7:50 AM   
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THE WAR IN THE HEAVENS

Ewing and Grady: He really provoked us to start thinking about where faith comes from: Why is one kid more devout than another? Where does that come from? How does that happen?

Did Ewig and Grady come even close to answering this question for themselves? For us? I doubt it. In fact, somewhere along the line they totally lost track of their intended goal.

We can call it religion, good or bad. We can call it pedegogy. And it is a form of that for sure. We can call it positive or negative child development, depending one's view. We can call it child abuse. We can call it brainwashing. And so on. And we would not necessarily be wrong. And, in some cases, we would likely be right. But we would NOT be referring to the causal affect. The causal affect is IMPRINTS... genetic pre-disposition woven into the dna fabric just as significant and just as influencial as the strands that determine hair color or dominant handedness or vulnerability to certain diseases or pre-disposition to addiction, etc, etc, etc.

To put it another way, squirrils pick up nuts because they are squirrils! Alcoholics drink because they are alcoholics. But are the nuts causal? Is alcohol causal?

Now, I'm certain some, and perhaps many, will consider this a huge stretch. BUT, what is going on here is a REFLECTION of pre-existing pre-dispositions. And I'll take it even further, it is a reflection of the un-resolved WAR IN THE HEAVENS. Thats right, the so-called war between good and evil which was a battle of points of view. Of differentiated interpretations. Of differentiated images. Of realities. Played out in an electro-magnetic event of what, at the time, were the energies of the universe.

Its energy. Ever play with magnets? Those are incredible forces. Which is what we all are. Energy. In some primative form we were all part of that un-resolved war in the heavens. Un-resolved because it is still playing out today. Its just that the form has changed. But its the same war. Thats why we are in Iraq. Thats what the so-called war on terror is really all about. And the underlying forces are just as incredible as ever.

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» RE: PALOOKA Posted by: Benjaminsjw
» RE: PALOOKA Posted by: aislinnluv
» Way too much time..... Posted by: Michiganman
100 million evangelicals?
Posted by: dstauff on Sep 28, 2006 7:54 AM   
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I'm not quite sure where the author came up with this number. The 2001 US census data lists out of 207 million adults, 159 million christians of which 50 million are catholic and 33 million baptist. In fact catholics represent the single largest christian denomination in the U.S., only 1 million identified themselves as "evangelical". While I don't disagree with the main points of the piece, I think such hyperbole is unnecessary.

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And the dead will walk the Earth...
Posted by: Roverton on Sep 28, 2006 8:19 AM   
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All fundamentalists use their own children as weapons.

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