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If America's So Great, Where's Our Health Care?

By Sarah Ruth van Gelder and Doug Pibel, YES! Magazine. Posted September 23, 2006.


The rest of the industrialized world gets universal health care. The U.S. gets limited access at a far higher cost. It's time for Americans to get the health care system they want, and the savings that go with it.
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If America's So Great, Where's Our Health Care?

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For Joel Segal, it was the day he was kicked out of George Washington Hospital, still on an IV after knee surgery, without insurance, and with $100,000 in medical debt. For Kiki Peppard, it was having to postpone needed surgery until she could find a job with insurance -- it took her two years. People all over the United States are waking up to the fact that our system of providing health care is a disaster.

An estimated 50 million Americans lack medical insurance, and a similar and rapidly growing number are underinsured. The uninsured are excluded from services, charged more for services, and die when medical care could save them -- an estimated 18,000 die each year because they lack medical coverage.

But it's not only the uninsured who suffer. Of the more than 1.5 million bankruptcies filed in the U.S. each year, about half are a result of medical bills; of those, three-quarters of filers had health insurance.

Businesses are suffering too. Insurance premiums increased 73 percent between 2000 and 2005, and per capita costs are expected to keep rising. The National Coalition on Health Care (NCHC) estimates that, without reform, national health care spending will double over the next 10 years. The NCHC is not some fringe advocacy group -- its co-chairs are Congressmen Robert D. Ray (R-IA) and Paul G. Rogers (D-FL), and it counts General Electric and Verizon among its members.

Employers who want to offer employee health care benefits can't compete with low-road employers who offer none. Nor can they compete with companies located in countries that offer national health insurance.

The shocking facts about health care in the United States are well known. There's little argument that the system is broken. What's not well known is that the dialogue about fixing the health care system is just as broken.

Among politicians and pundits, a universal, publicly funded system is off the table. But Americans in increasing numbers know what their leaders seem not to -- that the United States is the only industrialized nation where such stories as Joel's and Kiki's can happen.

And most Americans know why: the United States leaves the health of its citizens at the mercy of an expensive, patchwork system where some get great care while others get none at all.

The overwhelming majority -- 75 percent, according to an October 2005 Harris Poll -- want what people in other wealthy countries have: the peace of mind of universal health insurance.

A wild experiment?

Which makes the discussion all the stranger. The public debate around universal health care proceeds as if it were a wild, untested experiment -- as if the United States would be doing something never done before.

Yet universal health care is in place throughout the industrialized world. In most cases, doctors and hospitals operate as private businesses. But government pays the bills, which reduces paperwork costs to a fraction of the American level. It also cuts out expensive insurance corporations and HMO's, with their multimillion-dollar CEO compensation packages, and billions in profit. Small wonder "single payer" systems can cover their entire populations at half the per capita cost. In the United States, people without insurance may live with debilitating disease or pain, with conditions that prevent them from getting jobs or decent pay, putting many on a permanent poverty track. They have more difficulty managing chronic conditions -- only two in five have a regular doctor -- leading to poorer health and greater cost. The uninsured are far more likely to wait to seek treatment for acute problems until they become severe.

Even those who have insurance may not find out until it's too late that exclusions, deductibles, co-payments, and annual limits leave them bankrupt when a family member gets seriously ill.

In 2005, more than a quarter of insured Americans didn't fill prescriptions, skipped recommended treatment, or didn't see a doctor when sick, according to the Commonwealth Fund's 2005 Biennial Health Insurance Survey.

People stay in jobs they hate -- for the insurance. Small business owners are unable to offer insurance coverage for employees or themselves. Large businesses avoid setting up shops in the United States -- Toyota just chose to build a plant in Canada to escape the skyrocketing costs of U.S. health care.

All of this adds up to a less healthy society, more families suffering the double whammy of financial and health crises, and more people forced to go on disability. But the public dialogue proceeds as if little can be done beyond a bit of tinkering around the edges. More involvement by government would create an unwieldy bureaucracy, they say, and surely bankrupt us all. The evidence points to the opposite conclusion.


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Sarah van Gelder is Executive Editor of YES! Magazine. Doug Pibel is Managing Editor of YES!

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Posted by: rsaxto on Sep 23, 2006 12:28 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Our health care is up Cheney's ass and up the asses of all the CEOs who support him. The money wasted in our so-called health care plan is sitting in the bank accounts of the numerous economic criminals who bribe the politicians galore who suck on the tit of corruption galore. Only vote for politicians who favor single payer.

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» An explanation to Douglas Posted by: Lincoln fan
There.
Posted by: kittynboi on Sep 23, 2006 1:04 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Now, its a damn HEADLINE article. Maybe this will cause Rebel Pig to stop whining for a while.

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» RE: There. Posted by: MatthewSavage
Impossible for Serfs to pay bills
Posted by: agfusa on Sep 23, 2006 1:47 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Unfortunately, I am one of those Americans with a few thousand dollars in medical bills. It would certainly be possible to pay them off if I got a second job. However, every part-time job (we're talking sometimes $7/hour stocking jobs here) I have applied for has required a check of my credit report! However, my credit is bad because of all of my bills that I'm behind on. So, I can't get a second job because of bad credit and I can't improve my credit without getting a second job. Evidently, I'm a high risk for thievery because of my bad credit score, even though I've been in my current job for 13 years and I can pass a criminal background check and a drug test with no problem. Bankrupcy may be my only option, even though it's not the one I would prefer.

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» RE: Join the club Posted by: Gregor
The Party of Irrelevancy
Posted by: longlivecheney on Sep 23, 2006 1:56 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Its always great to see that socialism is alive and well still. You guys are still putting up a tough fight, and you deserve credit for it.

Even the Holy Grail of modern-day socialism, Sweden, is choosing to leave behind socialism. Here. Vindication.

The title says enough about the intellectual challenge Alternet and its point of view bring to the table. Todays liberals are almost completely irrelevant, and this proves it.

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» RE: The Party of Irrelevancy Posted by: Benjaminsjw
» RE: The Party of Irrelevancy Posted by: ProgressiveManiac
» ooh - paperwork - how scary Posted by: graylegend
» RE: Please, find me even one American Posted by: longlivecheney
» RE: Please, find me even one American Posted by: ProgressiveManiac
» You're half right. Posted by: Lincoln fan
» Socialism vs. Free Enterprise Posted by: cny39316
» RE: The Party of Irrelevancy Posted by: Linda50
» RE: The Party of Irrelevancy Posted by: graylegend
» RE: The Party of Irrelevancy Posted by: Jas1317
» RE: The Party of Irrelevancy Posted by: mjabele
» RE: The Party of Irrelevancy Posted by: Linda50
» "Empathy to the Have-Nots" Posted by: writeval
» RE: The Party of Irrelevancy Posted by: longlivecheney
» RE: The Party of Irrelevancy Posted by: Linda50
» RE: The Party of Irrelevancy Posted by: longlivecheney
» RE: The Party of Irrelevancy Posted by: aebartle
» Irrelevant? Not to me. Posted by: Vic
» RE: Irrelevant? Not to me. Posted by: graylegend
» RE: Irrelevant? Not to me. Posted by: longlivecheney
» RE: Irrelevant? Not to me. Posted by: kalabasa
» RE: The Party of Irrelevancy Posted by: badkitty68
» RE: TheTwo Parties of Irrelevancy Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: The Party of Irrelevancy Posted by: longlivecheney
» RE: The Party of Irrelevancy Posted by: badkitty68
» RE: The Party of Irrelevancy Posted by: badkitty68
» RE: The Party of Irrelevancy Posted by: mjabele
» RE: The Party of Irrelevancy Posted by: longlivecheney
» RE: The Party of Irrelevancy Posted by: mjabele
» RE: The Party of Irrelevancy Posted by: sofla100
» RE: The Party of Irrelevancy Posted by: longlivecheney
» RE: The Party of Irrelevancy Posted by: Schnieder
» Long live socialism Posted by: danielgeery
» RE: Long live socialism Posted by: longlivecheney
» RE: Long live socialism Posted by: HeroesAll
» RE: YOUR USELESS and VALUELESS LIFE Posted by: famouspipeliner
» RE: The Party of Irrelevancy Posted by: NickWarner
» RE: The Party of Irrelevancy Posted by: kalabasa
GE and Verizon - Save Us!
Posted by: Lincoln fan on Sep 23, 2006 3:36 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The overwhelming majority -- 75 percent, according to an October 2005 Harris Poll -- want what people in other wealthy countries have: the peace of mind of universal health insurance

When 75% of the people in a democracy want universal health care and don't get it, do you wonder why?
When one reason that we might get health care is because it'll save some industries money, doesn't that seem odd?
Does it make you think that our government might be run by and for the corporate establishment? Hmmm. Could it be?

Bob Reichenbach,
Director, The Lincoln Initiative

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» RE: GE and Verizon - Save Us! Posted by: Lincoln fan
Embracing ignorance as public policy
Posted by: Moonray on Sep 23, 2006 3:47 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As evidenced by the dickcheney admirer above, our stupid "free-enterprise" approach to health care and other public needs is a product of the good ol' boy mentality that prevails in our two main political parties.

Increasingly, our society reflects the ignorance, intolerance and self-obsession of the politically active white middle class rather than our society as a whole. Oddly, thanks to expert media skills by Republicans (Fox News, etc.) our most oppressed and exploited people often vote against their own interests!

They do so because, like the dickcheney lover above, they swallow the myths and distortions pumped out by conservative politicians and media. It's sad, but I don't see the situation improving any time soon. America will continue to decline, both as a society and a superpower. Europe and China will simply leave us behind to wallow in our conservative trough.

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A form of genocide for the poor?
Posted by: justaperson on Sep 23, 2006 3:54 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hey who really cares if there are uninsured people here at home? Who cares if they are going bankrupt from medical bills or dying for lack of care? Most of the people who are uninsured or underinsured are poor, not dirt poor mind you, but the working poor. Who needs them anyway? Businesses can get workers from other countries cheaper. Most of these people are rabble rousers anyway. All decent Americans have good joibs that give them ample coverage. These people are whiners and our country would be btter off without them. All they want is a handout from Washington. Some are probably illegals anyway. I say let the damn wretched things die. The fewer minorities we have the better anyway.

P.S. I'M ONLY KIDDING FOLKS . IF YOU THINK THIS WAY YOU ARE NOT A PATRIOT AMERICAN. CHANCES ARE YOU'RE A REPUBLICAN OR AN IGNORANT REDNECK.

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Born in another country.
Posted by: heid on Sep 23, 2006 4:37 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I was born in another country, and though I lived virtually my entire life in the U.S. (well over 50 years) and was born with U.S. citizenship, I count my blessings for being born elsewhere. I got sick in the U.S. - an iatrogenic illness with horrific pain, no treatment of any sort. I held good insurance and was financially well off (not rich, but in good shape). But after being unable to work and getting nothing from the country I'd worked in and voted in (liberally, I must add) my entire life, I realized that there was no choice but to take advantage of my foreign birth.

In spite of good insurance and many thousands of dollars, I was nearly wiped out. The health system wanted nothing to do with me. After all, they'd caused my illness and refused to even do research on it. My insurance cost me a huge amount every month and paid for only a portion of my hospital and doctor costs, and none of my medication costs, which amounted to $1,000-2,000 per month.

I count my blessings at being able to say that I no longer live in the United States.

But for one of me, there are thousands of others who do not have the insurance I did, who do not have the financial resources I had (though mine are now gone as a result of the illness), and who do not have the out that I did. My heart goes out to them.

So, I continue to keep in touch with what's going on and help fight this battle. It is pure greed, greed untouched by any hint of humanity, that allows this situation to continue in the United States. At this point, I think that nothing short of revolution is going to change things.

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» RE: Ya Posted by: Gregor
More than just an insurance crisis
Posted by: ilsewdm on Sep 23, 2006 5:38 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Not only do many Americans lack insurance coverage, we are also lied to about what makes us ill (or what would keep us healthy). I strongly recommend reading T. Colin Campbell's book "The China Study". Start by reading the readers' comments on Amazon.com.
I have excellent insurance as I am a retired civil servant. I had cancer 4 years ago, but have not even paid my $100 deductibe so far this year. Just got one $82.50 blood test to make sure my liver is doing alright. Prevention is the key to good health.

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Common Cause
Posted by: constantreader on Sep 23, 2006 5:57 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Single-payer healthcare would make our nation more economically competative in two ways: first, we, too, can offer other countries a base in a major market without high insurance costs (I've heard others comment that we lose many foreign plants to Canada for that reason); second, there are many middle-aged professionals with lots of knowledge and experience and a yen to open their own companies stuck working for someone else for the health insuance. These people could open a whole new avenue of jobs and markets if they could escape.

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» RE: Common Cause Posted by: constantreader
» RE: Common Cause Posted by: constantreader
I know a woman....
Posted by: ellie on Sep 23, 2006 6:04 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
who became ill from side effects of medication prescribed after life saving surgery
she lost her job due to diagnosis of a new, fatal if not treated disease from the medication

her employer offered her COBRA, but the premimum was more then all of her savings or othere assets combined so she was not able to pay for the coverage

her life became a patchwork of charity donations for meds to stay alive and unpaid ER bills

no one would hire her because of bad credit from medical bills including 'would you like fries with that ma'm?'

she was able to start a small business from home fron the help of friends but barely was able to pay for food and rent, but it was better then nothing

she had a college degree that had provided her with a decent but plain life before the surgery and medical insurance. she did not go for cars, homes, stuff but lived simply debt free.

the best offer she had from insurers as an individual was with the pre-existing condition clause, she would pay her premimum for 12 months and have to be treatment and symptom free during that time for coverage to kick in, at the end of 12 months. she will never be symptom free again in her life

she applied for SSI disability and was found to be able to work "...in a non public setting without customer or other employee contact that requires no physical activity such as walking or verbal communication such as telephone contact with customers" she appealed 3 times and lost

she had no children under 18 so she didn't qualify for medicaid

she had a relapse, from no fault of her own and wound up in the ER again, and discharged

the cops found her dead at home, a rented room in another person's home 5 hours later

this is america! and this is no joke or urban legend, but a woman I knew personally!

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» RE:email Michael Moore Posted by: Gregor
» RE: I know a woman.... Posted by: Linda50
» You could be me Posted by: Lizmv
Been there done that
Posted by: peppercorn on Sep 23, 2006 6:03 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I've worked 40 yrs in the health care industry, the last 7 of which I did not have access to it. I haven't had insurance now for 12 yrs. I now face thyroid cancer and no way to treat it other than bankrupting my 84 y/o mother. I choose to die. Oh, wait a minute. That's not a choice. I just don't have any others available. Gee, I used to wonder why so many poor people made such poor choices. Now I get it.

The whole downward spiral started in 1973 with DRG's implemented by Medicare. Since I was so young and politically naive at the time, I didn't get what was happening at the time. Besides it didn't affect the way I lived. I was young and healthy then. (DRG is diagnosis related groups) The politicians under advice from the bureaucrats decided how much they would pay for ea diagnosis, never mind that the elderly usually have more than one thing wrong that gets knocked for a loop when something else went wrong. It didn't take long before the insurance cos followed suit, Blue Cross being the first to jump on the band wagon.

DRGs led to "managed care" and HMOs. Now we have suits practicing medicine w/o a license, dictating to real drs who they can treat and w/ what!

I have a cousin who has lived in Canada for decades now. She too has had to move home to care for aging parents. She can't wait to get back "home" to get good health care again. You'll never hear that from corporate media in this country. According to national media, we have it better than anyone else in the world. BS!

Does anyone remember how afraid politicians were to go after the tobacco industry? Just think of all those tobacco farmers who would lose their livelyhood, all those cig factory workers who would lose their jobs. The impact on the economy would just be to great. Where are we now?

Look at all the hurricane victims. The insurance cos are covering their profits nitpicking about wind v water damage. Insurance and the administration of it is what's keeping health care costs too damned high for everyone.

You want to reform health care in this country? Try going nekked for a while. Don't buy insurance. Cancel all your policies. File banckruptcy when you suffer catastrophic health care costs. Revolt! We poor folks can't. We're just . . . .

Born to die.

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» This is really sick. Posted by: medstudgeek
» RE: This is really sick. Posted by: mjabele
» RE: This is really sick. Posted by: peppercorn
» RE: This is really sick. Posted by: Colton
Health Care and Quality of Life in US
Posted by: Dianka on Sep 23, 2006 6:14 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
One should note, too, that since the repeal of welfare, the US now has the WORST levels of poverty out of all industrialized nations. This does, indeed, reflect the values of our government.
The quality of life has dramatically declined in the US over the past decade, to levels well below that of other industrialized nations.
Just a reminder: As a result of shredding our social safety net, from welfare to affordable health care to affordable housing, the US is in direct violation of the UN's Universal Declaration of Human Rights---that international document that we celebrated a few years ago but that, in fact, the US refused to ratify.

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» Its called FASCISM! Posted by: Cathyc
» RE:2: Its called FASCISM! Posted by: Cathyc
I know a guy...
Posted by: suegei on Sep 23, 2006 6:17 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
who worked in the constuction industry, self-employed. he used to complain about his hemorrhoids. finally he presented himself at a local ER for help, and was told he had rectal cancer. he is waiting for the end in a rented house (without paying rent, thanks to the compassion of the property owner.) I understand his sister is caring for him. he is over 6' tall and now weighs less than 100 pounds.

they tell us the secret of surviving cancer is 'early detection'. no one tells us how the 'working poor' can afford the medical care that make early detection possible.

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I WOULD LIKE TO DRAW YOUR ATTENTION TO THE YES MAGAZINE WEBSITE
Posted by: rebel_pig on Sep 23, 2006 6:32 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Well, now this is perhaps the THIRD universal healthcare story I have seen at the top of the Alternet site. The third story in an ENTIRE YEAR. And not one story on progressive taxation.

Why do I care? Because I would like to live in a leftist nation. Leftism is a political culture that bases its operation on the axiom that the nation is the property of the working people, and that therefore those people should come first. That doesn't necessarily mean socialism, but whatevermix of capitalism and socialism works best.

In order to make America more leftist, you need to change its culture. Its present culture is one that was forged in the mean pit of indentured and chattel slavery of the 17th century. THe fruit don't fall too far from the tree, and our present meanspirited culture is one that was born of the exploitation of European indentured slaves and african indentured and chattel slaves in the mid atlantic colonies during the 1600s and 1700s.

In order to get America to where Sweden, France, et al., now are, we need to show the bulk of America what Leftism really is, and what its benefits are. Progressive taxation and universal healthcare are the basis of leftism and those ideas are what will start America on its journey left. The "lifestyle leftism" (aka FakeLeftism) that you posters here at Alternet hold so dear is not something that can change America. It is something that is a twisted product of the nonprofits that the rich set up and fund. Your lifestyle leftism, your fakeLeftism, is something that was evolved over decades by elite money so that the bulk of America, the whites that now mainly vote for the GOP, would be alienated from populist economics Leftism, aka TrueLeftism. TrueLeftism starts with universal healthcare and progressive taxation. You fakeLefties point to the antiwar, progressive attitudes of Sweden, et al., and you ask why white American GOP voters cannot be more like them. Well, you can't get there until you set the stage with universal healthcare and progressive taxation. Growing a Leftist culture is not something that you can FORCE onto people. That is what you all are trying to do with fakeleftism. But you have to GROW it. Growing a culture takes time and effort, and money. And the fertilizer is trueleftist populist economics that start with universal healthcare and progressive taxation.

That is why everyday on sites like Alternet, there should be multiple stories on universal healthcare and progressive taxation. But I see maybe a five stories a year out of more than 1000 stories at the top of Alternet. 5 out of more than 1000. Do the math.

Now I would like to turn your attention to the magazine that originally wrote the story that constitutes this article at the top. As quoted from that website, Yes magazine is published by Positive Futures Network, "an independent, nonprofit organization supporting people’s active engagement in creating a just, sustainable, and compassionate world."

This nonprofit organization was almost certainly bootstrapped by a grant from another nonprofit that was ultimately funded by the rich or by corporations. You want to know how I know that? I can tell by looking that photos at the top of that website I like to above. Look at those photos again at top of the Yes magazine website. What sort of people are depicted there? I see mostly women and racial minorities. And every other fakeLeft website funded by nonprofits is the same. This is one of the ways how the ruling class alienates whites and white males from economics Leftism. The articles on the sites are QUITE economic Leftism. Lots of stuff about universal healthcare, and there are also articles on lifestyle leftism.
CONTINUED BELOW

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» Beat them down with Diebold tools Posted by: eddie torres
Nursing is at a crisis along with the health care system
Posted by: Ed of Dayton on Sep 23, 2006 7:37 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
My girlfriend is an RN and she tells me over and over how here in Dayton, Ohio the nursing shortage hasn't hit us yet, but the overall treatment of health is crappy. She gets overworked having to look over four or five patients while doing paperwork and expected to meet every patient. Some nights she can reach every patient with the basics; there are some where she cannot and it is a struggle to even get the paperwork together. The hospital she works in boast of being a leader, but truthfully it is a glorified hotel where the stay is either a day and out or more. And let's not even get started with the ER situation.

As for me, I haven't seen my doctor in five years or so simply because I can't even afford the benefits. The cost of healthcare is off the chain and what kills me more than anything else is if you don't have the money you are screwed. My girlfriend had a burn on her chest during a barbacue and had to go in for some emergency help. I found out last night it cost her $7,000 for all the treatment--ER visit and tools plus the overnight stay in the burn unit (she's much better by the way). Thank God she's a nurse and can pay for "some" of it. The cost is out of control.

We keep conversing over and over about moving our family to Canada for the healthcare (among other things) because we've simply don't think our leaders in either federal or state positions don't have our best interest in mind. I love this country, we all do, but it breaks my heart to know we have to be "positioned" to get any type of healthcare. I'm in my early 40s and even trying to get basic check up like colon and prostate care along with other issues is off the table because I can't afford a doctor who could give me a basic check up.

Ed
Dayton, Ohio

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Healthcare as a business.
Posted by: Jersey Devil on Sep 23, 2006 8:32 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The problem with healthcare goes beyond the insurance companies financially feasting on our desire to be healthy. Let's face it, the less insurance companies pay out in claims the fatter their profits which should explain the constant upward trending in profits with fewer people having coverage. Then there are the not for profit healthcare providers that keep patient fees high to enjoy inflated high dollar executive rich bureaucracies. Here in New Jersey the average Hospital CEO makes well over $1,000,000 annually. Meanwhile hands-on care providers make less than people making hamburgers at McDonalds. The real money in healthcare goes to the top executives. The plan of spend increasingly more on US healthcare and receive less and less will not work forever. When the bird flu finally makes it to the USA, the death toll will be in the millions due to the current healthcare system's inability to deal with disaster. The first to go will come from the 45 million men, women, and children without health insurance. So much for compassionate conservatisim and the Republican Torture Party.

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75% is not enough
Posted by: CJC on Sep 23, 2006 8:43 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The fact that 75% of Americans think our health insurance system is broken doesn't seem to be enough yet. We need a majority enraged enough to get active and engaged.

I assume 'graylegend' has good health insurance and good health. Nothing wakes people up better than having a health insurance disaster in their face - some disaster of their own or of someone they love and care about.

A few years ago my husband and I were in Paris. Just before we left the US he had a small cyst on his back removed. It wasn't healing right and we were concerned. On the advice of American friends living in France we went to a pharmacy near our hotel. The pharmacist looked at my husband's lesion, pronounced it "pas jolie" (not pretty) and advised us to go to a little hospital in the next block. We walked in at my husband explained his problem at the reception desk. They sent us upstairs to a clinic. He explained his problem again, they asked for 20 euros, less than $25, and told him to sit and wait. In less than 45 minutes a doctor examined him and prescribed an antiobiotic and soaking treatments. This is what single payer health can get you.

Where in the US can you get such fast service - even from your own MD? The whole process took not 2 hours start to finish.
Paul Krugman addressed much of this in his column in the NYTimes yesterday, Sept 22.
http://select.nytimes.com/2006/09/22/opinion/22krugman.html

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» RE: 75% is not enough Posted by: graylegend
» Not brilliant Posted by: mjabele
» Why not brilliant? Posted by: graylegend
» RE: Why not brilliant? Posted by: mjabele
» RE: Why not brilliant? Posted by: mjabele
» Advantages of centralization Posted by: medstudgeek
» RE: Why not brilliant? Posted by: Colton
» RE: Why not brilliant? Posted by: kalabasa
» RE: 75% is not enough Posted by: Colton
» RE: 75% is not enough Posted by: Colton
» RE: 75% is not enough Posted by: kalabasa
USA IS AN UNHEALTHY STATE!!!
Posted by: Cathyc on Sep 23, 2006 9:16 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
America is a totally unhealthy SICK country. Thats why MOST Americans believe in the myth that they can't live without health insurance. "Gotta have two boring jobs just to pay for my health insurance" How dumb is that!

The American health-insurance business is nothing but a racket, but the vast majority of Americans can't see that because they're sooooo stupid!

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Show our crooked system for what it is.
Posted by: monkeywrench on Sep 23, 2006 9:21 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is time to kick anybody out of elected office who refuses to back universal healthcare. It is time to embarrass them publicly with ads that tell the truth about who these legislators (and our president and VICE president) are beholding to in the private healthcare sector.

It is as simple as that. Nothing will change as long as these self-serving politicians are paid off by healthcare corporations while the public is kept in the dark about just how badly it has been betrayed by its "leaders."

A little television and radio advertising can go a long way – and can be the electronic equivalent of being pilloried in the public square. It's time to give our legislators' what they deserve, and make their failures and criminality a very visible public record.

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» Embarrass sociopaths??? Posted by: Cathyc
» re: Posted by: CatDad
The single most important domestic issue of our time
Posted by: mac macgillicuddy on Sep 23, 2006 9:39 AM   
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The war and disastrous foreign policy remain critical issues, and I suppose immigration has some importance, as do certain other issues in current social and political debates -- but this one must be viewed as the single most important issue of the upcoming election.

Keep asking your local candidates -- not just where they stand on the issue, but HOW they are going to act to change the status quo when they get elected. Any candidate who doesn't have a plan is out of touch. I dare say, he or she should also be out of the race.

And, I'll add, that responses like the one I got from my Senator, Joe Lieberman, about how he supported health care portability or some other slothfully evolutionary change, which only addresses people who already HAVE a way to pay, are not plans. We need disruptive change to the system on a macro level. Ask the question of every candidate. This is not necessarily a national issue; it's a state and a local issue, as well. In a civilized, advanced society, it is not a political but a moral issue.

Incidentally, I am self employed and can afford insurance, but I still don't have it because I have a "pre-existing condition"--I take blood pressue medicine! That's all it took for the corporate insurers to decide I am too big of a risk. Another example of why the current system of how medical costs are addressed and paid is broken. We can't expect corporations who have to answer to stock holders to take on the unmitigated risk of agreeing to pay for people who are sure to need it. Why should they? The system needs to be completely rethought and revamped by people capable of thinking differently.

So ask, demand answers, and challenge any lazy thought that isn't a new approach. Remember, this is the single most important domestic issue of our time.

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If Socialized Medical Care is So Bad, Why Does Everyone Have It?
Posted by: sofla100 on Sep 23, 2006 10:27 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Look, I have seen the articles about Sweden and some of the Western European countries that are heavily socialized. Perhaps they want to modify some things, but NONE of them wants to repeal socialized medical care. At the most, they ALL want the state to provide protections to the worker. Let's be honest now, America is EXACTLY the opposite. We have little or no worker protections, no socialized medical care, virtually no welfare. And, all of our state spending goes to the military and national secruity establishments. Saying the Europeans are not satisifed with socialism therefore is saying somebody with a Lamborgini believes they could get by with a BMW. In America, all we have now are broken down Fords.

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No Matter The Problem:We Are The Blame
Posted by: D-of-G on Sep 23, 2006 10:33 AM   
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In the American body politic, we like to think of ourselves as being part of a great political system, which is true. However, a political system is only as great as the body politic itself. For in a democracy, the fundamental element that makes it work for everyone is that we all aspire to benefit ourselves, but not at the expense of the "general welfare" of the people. This understated code of conduct is relevant whether it's between individuals, corporations, the government and any other micro-cultures. In other words, what is good for one, in terms of basic necessities and prosperity, is good for all, thus good for the state- e.g. a good education, an opportunity to a beneficial vocation and a good health care system etc.

Unfortunately, liberty, as practiced by so many within this nation means "do whatever you want to do." And for some, it means "do what you want, for your own self interest, no matter the harm, as long as it's "legal." This is why we need a million laws and a million lawyers to "orchestrate" them, in order to protect ourselves...from each other! So we can speak, in glowing terms, about the superiority of our political system and how "free" we are, but we are not free from the Law of "cause and effect."

For "WE THE PEOPLE" are the cause. The government and the corporations are a reflection of how WE think. If we want to change the status quo, all we have to do is change our thinking. That means educating ourselves beyond our diplomas. It means to stop seeing our interest, and the interest of others, in a biased and disconnected way. That means to stop having this "love affair" with politicians who merely package slogans, sympathetic to our prejudices and fears, in order to have us, unknowingly, vote against our own welfare.

It's really simple. "We are the government!" But our representatives won't get it together, because WE WON'T GET IT TOGETHER! We are the United States of America. But we won't ever reach our full potential and benefit until we become the United "STATE" of America!

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Who has the best health care plan in the World?
Posted by: mom'z the word on Sep 23, 2006 11:02 AM   
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Members of Congress the President of the United States. They want for nothing. They have health, dental, optic, the whole ball of wax. Who pays for that? Are they covered if they have pre-existing conditions? Yes of course they are. Are they ever refused access or treatment for any reason? No, of course they aren't. I want that plan. If they have it then it must already exist. Premuims don't seem to be a problem. Access to the best care America has to offer is available to them no questions asked. That sounds like the best plan to me. I don't hear any Congress people or the President complaining about their coverage or rising premuim cost or care facility. So, whatever plan they have, it is good enough for me. Sign me up. How do I get on the plan? I suggest that Congress sign seal and deliver their health care plan, the one they have, to the America people before the upcoming election. I know this seems rather sudden but I am sure if they want to keep their jobs it will happen. I have decided that this is what I am going to base my vote on. It is simply for me. No bill, no signature, no vote. And the wording does not have to be 100 pages long. All it has to say is Congress's health care plan is now available to every citizen in the United States. Funding? Easy who pays for Congress's health care?

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Opinion of America has drastically changed
Posted by: mjm3iii on Sep 23, 2006 12:36 PM   
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Ever since 9/11 when Americans mistakenly believed that the bush would keep them safe from terrorism I said to myself "what the hell is wrong with these idiots?"

Bush is no leader! Where people came up with that false impression I'll never firgure out! Too many Amricans are wimps!!! Scared shitless from a little terrorism!!! They've let bin laden accomplish what bin laden wanted and that is to disrupt the American way of life! Did he do that??? What do YOU believe? Then we have a complete looser running??? the country!

The problem as I see it is not bush. The true problem is Americans. All Americans have to stand up and say enough is enough! This is what we demand from our leaders. America is supposed to lead the world instead of lagging behind like we have for probably 30 years or so.

Politicians were HIRED by us and OWE the public who gave them their jobs, Is that happening??? NO!!! It is not. What can we do about it? Fire the worthless sons of bitches!

I don't see that happening any time soon or ever! Amercans are too complacent! They don't know what's good for them! Look around you and look at yourself. How many skinny people do you see? If any not many!

I was in a car accident 15 years ago this september 12th. I suffered a severe brain injury and was in the hospital for a year recovering. I was fed from a tube for a few months and got very skinny too skinny. Then the tube was taken out and I was placed in a rehab hospital and started eating on my own. What happened? I got fat!

Because of my brain injury my intellect level was probably around 5, 6 yrs of age when I was released and my thinking ability was extremely limited. My cognitive abilities were almost non existent.

After some time had passed I realized I was fat and I didn't like it. I looked at all the fad diets tried a few and came to the conclusion that they didn't work! I found out what makes you fat. Lack of exercise and breads, pasta, refined grains, lack of fiber! Not fat in your foods. But breads simple carbohydrates make you fat.

Limit the amount of breads in your diet. Limit your sugar intake. Start eating complex carbs like whole wheat breads with 3 grams of fiber per slice. You won't find many brands of breads that have 3 grams of fiber! Most have only 1 maybe 2 grams of fiber. I put fiber powder in my juice every morning, day, afternoon.

I lost all that weight I had gained and have made an amazing recovery from my brain injury. Re educated myself listen and learn!!!

You have to start reading the ingredients contained in the food you eat!!! NO trans fats!!! Poison!!! Trans fats are poison to your body!!! Partially hydrogenated fats are trans fats too so beware. American marketers are liars! They'll tell you anything to sell their product! Another problem in America is all the fucking liars in our society and they are MANY!!!

I heard a wopper in the news recently that America is a religious nation. What??? Religious nation??? Open up any paper in the country read the news then tell me that. Religious nation my ass!!!

Jesus despised religion. Did you know that? Live by the golden rule which is treat other people like YOU like to be treated. And help people! Help your neighbor do what ever! Help a stranger do anything!!!

That's what being a christian is ALL about. Being selfless helping your neighbor, a friend, a stranger! Not going to church every sunday! It's HOW you TREAT other people that counts!!!

Bush claims to be a Christian. All I see is that son of a bitch doing is killing people! Hmm, doesn't seem very christian to me! Know why??? Because the bush is a LIAR!!!

Revelations from the bible tells us that many will claim to be a christian...but few are!

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FACE IT AMERICANS ARE SLAVES TO CORRUPT SYSTEM
Posted by: Burtonger on Sep 23, 2006 12:43 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The so called elected officials do what is best for business associates thru lobbyists bribery and until TOTAL CORRUPTION is taken care of americans are screwed in every oriface.
SOON the world will boycott and sanction america for being a rogue nation of war criminals and U.S. economy will crumble then it will be too late to actually do shit for this insanely corrupt empire....KARMA KARMA KARMA

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Beat them down with Diebold tools
Posted by: eddie torres on Sep 23, 2006 1:33 PM   
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I was about to post something along the lines of "How Many Times Does A Healthcare Reform Article Appear After November Of An Election Year?" when I read rebel_pig and Lincoln fan comments. You guys win.

In addition, whose votes are regularly lost / wasted / purged / uncounted in an election, Bubba's or racial minorities?

Rev them up with sites like Yes! and parties like the Democrats, beat them down with tools like Diebold.

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Americans Are Serfs at Heart
Posted by: rae2012 on Sep 23, 2006 4:22 PM   
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I live in California where our state legislature just APPROVED a plan to provide single-payer universal coverage for all residents. In this state, 24% of us are fully uninsured, and we have one of the lowest rates of employer-paid insurance in the nation. So now, Schwarnegger announces he will VETO it. At many local events pu on to show grass-roots support we are LUCKY over a dozen of folks bother to show up - and press are virtually invisible.

In May, many, many millions of immigrants in dozens of cities took off from work, risked police action or deportation to protest the Draconian anti-immigrant bills in Congress. In Mexico City, Venezuela, Ukraine, Czech Repulica, Georgia etc. millions of citizens camped in city streets until dubious coups or elections got overturned.

And here in the fat US? We don't give a flying f*ck enough to even show up.

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Hiding from Corporate America
Posted by: lynnejane on Sep 23, 2006 5:45 PM   
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When my Cobra kicked in after I was fired, I had the luxury of being able to pay for it with an inheritance I had recently received. When my Cobra period was over, I was stuck, but for whatever reason or fate, I received a medical insurance card in the mail. I kept it but I puzzled over what it meant and was afraid to use it.

A trip to the pharmacy for a cheap perscription (I'd payed the MD personally) proved to be enlightening...I was covered! Whaaa? I called my MD's office and they checked into it. I was, surely enough, covered.

My friends and others now say that when the error is found, I'll have to pay through the nose. That will be the time I, too, go on the lecture circuit for the single payer system.

It is humbling every time I require medical services, knowing I'd like to share it with people who are less fortunate. On your behalf I'm, "STICKIN' TO THE MAN."

"Real" health insurance may come into effect in about a month, if I am hired on at the temp job I have now. My Cobra was up two years ago.

Recently, in a discussion on the subject, my new boss said, "I don't know whose idea it was to make employers pay for health insurance in the first place. It should have been federal all along. AMEN.

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It Ain't Nirvana!
Posted by: keefus55 on Sep 23, 2006 6:45 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It would appear that many folks here have joined the "love fest" for socialized medicine. And while so-called "universal health care" does have many positive aspects, my family's personal experiences with such a "universal" system (in Canada) have shown that it is FAR from the "nirvana" people south of the border sometimes make it out to be.

First of all, the "free" Canadian Health System only covers basic health care. While it does cover routine doctor visits and so-called "emergency" care visits to a hospital or clinic, the number of doctors available in the system is strictly controlled. So, finding (or keeping) a family doctor is sometimes all but impossible. And, by law, there are no "private" doctors or clinics in Canada (except in Quebec…. Plus, of course, for Members of Parliament)! And, if you are hospitalized for any length of time, having just government medical coverage means you'll share a ward with several other people.

Most Americans might also be shocked to learn that prescription drugs are NOT covered in Canadian's government-provided health care benefit! Yes, prescription drugs do cost a bit less in the drugstores in Canada than in the United States. But, in order to get prescription drug coverage (and other such "extras" like a semi-private room in a hospital), most Canadians still must purchase expensive health insurance to "top up" their basic government coverage.

Also, since Canada's universal medical system is funded largely from provincial and federal sales taxes, if you happen to be out of the country for more than 180 days at a stretch, you are assumed to not be contributing your fair share and are then subject to being dropped from the health system rolls when you return.

What's more, your Canadian health coverage is only good while you are in Canada. If you travel south of the border (or overseas) and need medical assistance while you are out of the Country, you must either purchase extremely expensive one-time "travel insurance" to cover these potential medical costs before you leave, or risk paying for that care (usually at the "non-insurance" (full) rate if it's obtained in the USA) from out of your own pocket.

And while the general quality of medical care in Canada is excellent, GETTING IT in a timely fashion is something else again. In some provinces, the waiting time for a routine MRI can stretch upwards of six to eight months. My brother-in-law recently endured nearly a year of excruciating pain while waiting for major back surgery. And our grandson recently had to endure almost four months of intense pain caused by complications from waiting for a hernia operation. In the interim, he couldn't work

Likewise, waiting times for non-life-threatening surgical procedures can be even longer. Almost a year ago, a good friend of mine in Canada met with his family doctor simply to set up an input appointment with an orthopedic surgeon for knee replacement surgery. That was in November 2005. At that time, the first available input appointment with an orthopedic surgeon was for April…in 2007. My friend is still waiting.

Fortunately, my family and I are covered by US medical insurance in the USA. However, my doctor there reports that fully one quarter of his patients are now Canadians coming across the border…and paying cash…. to get their medical care from him. That fact, alone, speaks volumes!

Now, granted, millions of people in the United States still don't have health insurance. But, if you are truly ill and in need of urgent care, you won't be turned away from a hospital emergency room in the USA simply because you can't pay.

Unfortunately in Canada, even some people WITH supplementary health insurance are, quite literally, DYING while waiting for THEIR "free" health care.

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» Which senator do you work for? Posted by: planet doomed
» RE: Which senator do you work for? Posted by: planet doomed
» Reality bites Posted by: planet doomed
» RE: It Ain't Nirvana! Posted by: NickWarner
» RE: It Ain't Nirvana! Posted by: keefus55
an today high cost
Posted by: john henry on Sep 23, 2006 7:41 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
now 20 years or so ago the insrance companys an the gov. did a study about this it came that a national plan was good but it would not work until we the people got our sack full an we push for a national plan for everbody oh all the money would go into one account an everbody would pay in basic on your income or a small per cents look who make money from the sick by build new building or take over other companys

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I don't think I can take it anymore
Posted by: planet doomed on Sep 23, 2006 9:28 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's either leave this godforsaken country or kill myself. No matter who is in charge, congress is just a whore for the highest corporate bidder. They don't even care that six years later the Diebold voting scam still hasn't been fixed. Fraud-free voting is a pillar of a true democracy, without that, democracy is just a word - kind of like the Constitution is "just a goddamn piece of paper".

I just can't cope any longer with the erosion of privacy, the dismantling of the Constitution, the willful disregard for climate change, with recession guarenteed due to lack of planning over the coming oil depletion, those damn fundamentalists shoving their morality down my throat, and yes, unaffordable health care.

This country is fucking doomed, and I want out.

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The Problem Is Systemic, Not Just Political
Posted by: NoPCZone on Sep 23, 2006 9:38 PM   
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Take it from someone who has worked in healthcare for 20 years as a licensed professional-- the problems are many and the system is horribly broken. The cracks in the system are really crevasses, much larger and deeper than they appear on the surface.

Nothing short of an overwhelming mandate from the people is going to bring about substantive change because there is simply too much money tied up in it. 1/7th of the entire US economy is dependent upon healthcare. With so many vested interests and that much money up for grabs, any half-hearted attempt will just make things worse.

I hate to sound cynical, but the truth is that most of the big money is not in those delivering care or for the equipment and facilities required. There is an immense layer of mark ups by equipment, drug and services suppliers that contributes mightily to your bill. The administrative overhead in even not-for-profit hospitals has ballooned and the salaries earned by such people has followed. I know of a small non-profit (under 100 beds) in a poor area where the CEO was paid well over $200,000/year- more than a Federal Executive Cabinet Member, Senator or US Representative.

I can assure you that doctors are the only ones involved in direct patient contact that get anything approaching big money. The vast majority of people delivering your testing, care and treatment are paid well below peer professions requiring similar education, credentialling, continuing education, etc.

Because of that, the turnover rate among professionals below the M.D./D.O. level is very high. A couple of years back a study showed that the average R.N. worked 6 years in Nursing before leaving for other jobs or positions not involving patient care or contact. What that leaves you with is sub-optimal care in the hospital and good people leaving the field.

It's highly discouraging to see a new Drug Rep with a B.S. in business that couldn't pass your undergrad prereqs make 3-4X what you earn after having gone to the same University 40 hours a week year round while the Drug Rep was carrying 16 hours a semester. They are not the only overhead robbing the taxpayers and the poor, just one of many.

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Chillin'
Posted by: famouspipeliner on Sep 24, 2006 12:29 AM   
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Man, I love it when Americans start talking about universal health care.

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And we don't also blame Sen Clinton, Sen Kennedy, Sen Frist?
Posted by: velvel of atlanta on Sep 24, 2006 8:09 AM   
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Sherrill's book was entitled "Military justice is to justice as military music is to music." He was right. Sen Clinton: why should your medical care be better than mine when I am paying for your medical care?

My title for this would be "government medicine is to medicine as government economy is to economy." They have proven themselves congentially incapable of providing services for which an education is necessary. And not just here---but in Canada where there are waiting lists for services, in Britain where there is the same...and in Danny Glover's beloved Castronian Cuba where they wash and reuse i.v. tubes (because their genius government would rather have sixteen types of police and spend money there instead of on the people.)

Let's be serious about this: if the members of Congress had a scintilla of integrity they would have said years ago when the issue became "newsworthy" that the citizens of the US (and I know that will start a related argument) are entitled to at least the same protection they are. But face it: they do not.

43's song and dance is that his actions are never poll-driven. Poppycock!!!

Maybe if the insurance company execs had their feet held to the fire in legitimate Congressional hearings (and not the usual back-slapping games) honest numbers would be forced out and we might have a better idea what the various schemes would cost.

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If America'sSo Great Where's Our Health Care?
Posted by: jstadler on Sep 24, 2006 9:35 AM   
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I’m going to tell you why health care costs so much. I am a Social Worker in a major NY hospital. I explore and access insurance benefits for people who have needs at discharge (equipment, supplies, home nursing, etc). I deal with these companies every day.

First you need a little history. About 10-15 years ago there was an uproar about the high cost of health care. It was determined that this was due to unnecessary medical care ordered by spendthrift doctors and the unnecessary use of medical services by spendthrift patients. That is, it was believed that everyone had a buffet mentality –$8.95 for all you can eat so you eat all you can whether or not you are hungry because you (or your employer) paid for it anyway.

Doctors made really good livings in those days and could have an office with a minimum of staff. Just about any bill they sent in to the insurance company was paid. insurance companies were angry because Doctors made :too much money."

So, a transfer of the health care money was arranged from the doctor’s pockets to the insurance company’s pockets. That's how managed health care was born.

And here's how they do it: They pay case managers to find reasons to reject claims. They have mobius ring automated voice systems so that you (or your doctor) will give up in frustration and decide you don’t need what it was thought you needed. They actually pay bonuses to their case managers for denying benefits or getting rid of benefits requests. They pay doctors a fraction of the cost of the care and make it so difficult for the doctor to collect and pay them so long after the rendering of the service that any doctor who can will ditch insurance all together and make his/her practice entirely self-pay. They also consistently shave and whittle away whatever benefits they were providing the year before. For example, several insurance companies will no longer provide benefits for disposables (anything thrown away after use). Disposables include things like colostomy bags. Now a colostomy is not like a wound that will eventually heal, so the need for the bags (and other accompanying disposables that make the bag stay in place, etc.) will not end. A colostomy is usually a procedure that causes a condition that will remain for anywhere from a year to as long as the person lives.

The insurance companies themselves also spend an incredible amount of wasted money – not, as you might have guessed by now on “unnecessary” tests, procedures or care, but on salaries for personnel. Here’s an example of that: several insurance companies hire companies to oversee various aspects of the business of monitoring medical care. They have a company or office whose staff monitors on a daily basis the patient’s hospital stay. Then they have another company or office whose only job is to discuss a person’s eligibility and determine what benefits he/she has and what vendor you can use through the insurance policy. Then a third company or office to provide the authorization to use that benefit. That's anywhere from 2-4 people to do what is easily a one-person job. Outrageous!!!

American health care also doesn’t like anything preventive, prophylactic or chronic - especially chronic. It works on the basic insurance principles which are based on the laws of chance. That is, insurance bets that you won’t use it or won't need it. And by the laws of chance, that usually works out. It’s when the odds work out against the insurance company(that is, you get sick and use the insurance), that things get hairy for them and they bring out their full arsenal of delay and deny.

In a nutshell, American health care is only for the already are and always going to be healthy who don’t use it.

Sincerely,
Judith Stadler

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If America is so great....
Posted by: JoshuaLudd on Sep 24, 2006 10:34 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
.. where is our health care?
.. where are our job benefits?
.. where are our living wages?
.. where are our low crime rates?
.. where are our livable neighborhoods?
.. where is our free-time?
.. where are our good schools?
... where are our inexpensive but high quality universities?
.. where is our job security?
.. where are our pensions?


Where is a country that is so goddamned great????

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» RE: If America is so great.... Posted by: symcokid
Health care Euro style
Posted by: jbloggz on Sep 24, 2006 1:48 PM   
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For years I worked as an expat across the world. All the time I kept on paying my UK National Insurance. It did not cost me much and I paid without much thought. I had a family GP in the UK and rarely visited him because I was mainly working abroad. I finally retired and went to live in a former East European country. Now I get my UK state pension paid into my bank (how lucky I was to have kept up those NI payments all those years). Better still I now get free medical attention including a GP and any costs are covered by the UK system. A year ago I broke my ankle severely. Had to pay for the operation and after care. Put in a claim to the UK and yes they paid me back in full.

My American friend is also lucky he had a good job and retired and gets his necessary drugs virtually free. I feel sorry that the need for money has overtaken the need for human care in the US. I watch TV shows here and they're full of surgeons all busy making big money, becoming stars! But then they're plastic surgeons doing very necessary breast implants and nose jobs. Small wonder those who live outside of the US think that the country is stark raving mad!

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» RE: Health care Euro style Posted by: Linda50
» RE: Health care Euro style Posted by: jbloggz
thegreenhornet
Posted by: atruedemocrat on Sep 24, 2006 2:20 PM   
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Re where is our health care: The obvious answer is in the hands of the health care insurers, big pharma, the AMA; etc and our compassionate conservative president and our House of reprehensables and our childlike Senate. All of the above and our alternate Congressional body, that vast array of corporate lobbyests, which controls the day to day and year to year deliberations of our government.

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And where is the health care workers' health care?
Posted by: logansafi on Sep 24, 2006 7:55 PM   
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What most Americans hardly seem to realize, is that many, many, many care givers can't get health care insurance! First, many change jobs frequently and it might take over a year to connect into the most minimal insurance offered. Second, many are paid such bad salaries that the cost is unaffordable when the insurance finally does get offered. One might add also that as health care work is highly stressful, it is only when one gets sick and can't work ...OOPS! there goes the insurance. No time to see the doctor when working, and no coverage when not working and sick!

I am so disgusted by Right Wing idiotlogues who think that other countries' systems are not functional, while they think theirs is just great. Talk about total ignorance! Fact is, our system is absolute uncaring chaos, and even with medical insurance one has to think often that it might be better to have no access to doctors in the US at all. Our medical institutions are an actual danger to life, run as they now are by corporations.

Plus, the corporate world has cannibalized previously working public health programs that now no longer effectively exist in our country. Who can't but cry when they compare Kennedy's physical fitness programs at public schools, with the 15-30 minutes recesses that our 'education president' sees as perfectly normal today? No wonder diabetes and asthma are epidemic amongst our children. They have little recess, junk food in the schools, few parks, and cars menacing them everywhere. Public health, Dubya? What's that?????? Cheney does all right without it...

I just moved away from the Mexican border. That worries me. Many of us that lived in that region could only access care by buying it in pesos! Isn't that a sick situation? Don't think that I am making this up either. Just ask some Spanish speaking folk down Dixie how it really is. Infectious disease is spreading everywhere all resistant to antibiotics, and it costs a jillion to access the docs and get the prescriptions. It would be better if we were livestock of some sort.

The American doctors run and directed by the corporate world are more impediment to care, than access to it. That's what our 'system' is like really. As an RN I am sick of smiling and pretending that it is all going to be OK, when it is about to totally collapse. Never has so much money bought so little real care! Even the docs are becoming appalled.

As Americans our choice has become; no care, the worst care, worse care, and bad care. Oh, and a McDonalds restaurant in a pediatric hospital was where one would have to take a kid in the South Texas city I moved from. Even if they had cancer, lol bitterly. Clowns running cancer treatment though their product causes colon cancer. So much for medical science since kids don't need vegetables, just a 'McDonald's House'! Buy a hamburger and take it up to the floor! Believe me, you are paying for this charade of 'care' much more than you might imagine. And to call all this a 'system' is just absolutely absurd.

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American is so great...
Posted by: Aussie Kim on Sep 24, 2006 9:57 PM   
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...they can spend trillions on a war and, thus, let people die on both sides - in the US AND overseas!

Brilliant!

Heaven forbid the war money should be spent, instead, on health care thus letting people LIVE on both sides...

----

And please - is it really, REALLY true that people who have debts can't get (extra) jobs to help pay their debts off? What is that? Institutionalised "kick a man when he's down" syndrome? Why not just shoot these people and put them out of their misery, instead of letting them live in debt and poverty and misery?

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» RE: American is so great... Posted by: Aussie Kim
deliver the respect, please
Posted by: graylegend on Sep 25, 2006 6:45 AM   
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(1) yes, it sucks. It sucks because of government over-involvement, not under-involvement.
(2) the provision of insurance and other benefits through one's employer is an artifact of the tax code that should be eliminated. Far better to purchase health insurance privately, the way people do auto, house, and life insurance. Furthermore, health insurance should provide coverage for catastrophic events, not routine doctor's visits, which should be paid out-of-pocket. The AMA should stop refusing to accredit medical schools in order to limit the supply of doctors artificially - there is plenty of demand for doctors, and the supply of them should be increased. This will ease a lot of the pricing pressure. I am not opposed to offering highly subsidized or even free health care to the very poor and their children; I believe this is akin to food stamps, i.e., providing a basic human need to those who can't provide for themselves. Done properly, they will ride on the back of a truly private system for their medical necessities (just as they have access to most of the same food the rest of us do at the grocery store). I do not believe in providing free medical care to the well-to-do elderly. Of course they will consume extremely expensive services in their final months of life - someone else is paying, so why not! When people are detached from the payment process, their incentives change radically. I don't blame them; I just don't think that the rest of us should have to foot the bill. I believe that as the years pass we will come to hear more about euthanasia scandals in countries with so-called free health care - such as in the Netherlands where terminally ill babies have been euthanized sub rosa. In a system where health care is rationed for the good of the group, the individual consuming more than his fair share will have to be sacrificed. This is not the brave new world I want to live in.

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» My answer to Burton Posted by: mjabele
» RE: My answer to Burton Posted by: Burton
» RE: My answer to Burton Posted by: mjabele
This issue makes me sick.
Posted by: antiapathy on Sep 25, 2006 6:54 AM   
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Literally. And it is so F-ing easy to fix. Just don't vote for candidates who are against a single-payer national system. There are candidates out there. Vote for them. Stop being so timid and whiny and defeatist, and vote for the candidates who will deliver what you want.

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Clueless Medical Racket
Posted by: NoPCZone on Sep 25, 2006 9:10 AM   
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WHat do you get when you combine for-profit hospitals, aggressive insurance companies, poor record-keeping and a large uninsured population. Read this article in the LA Times (free sub required).

linked text + Here it is

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I think it's a bigger problem than just healthcare
Posted by: Ayla87 on Sep 25, 2006 11:57 AM   
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I don't think universal health care is going to do anything. Not with the way our society is now. We're an unhealthy population in general, not just because of our lack of health care but because of our ignorance to the choices we make for ourselves and our children. There are people out there who can't afford the care they need, then there are others who don't understand the instructions they've been given by doctors or prescription bottles. Then there are more who neglect themselves by consuming tons of pure shit that's killing them and choosing unhealthy lifestyles. (How many people really look at the nutritional information on the food they buy?)

I'm not saying that we shouldn't focus on universal health care. It's probably the only government involvement I will ever support. But, shouldn't we be just as (if not more) focused on rooting out other problems with our health as well?

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Best in the world
Posted by: Jeanne on Sep 26, 2006 9:53 PM   
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But, you know, if anyone asks, "we've got the best healthcare in the world." It's that same tired platitude that gets spouted over and over again. Whatever it is, we (USA) are the "best in the world." If only it were true.

The rest of the civilized world has universal health care. It is obviously the right way to go. There is no better negotiating block than Everyone. And, while we are told health care costs are so high because we (Americans) demand the best, it really is about profits to shareholders.

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» RE: Best in the world Posted by: logansafi
Universal coverage at least for minors
Posted by: cinattra on Sep 27, 2006 10:45 PM   
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You guys are definitely swaying me more and more towards a more socialist-lite type health care system. The anecdotes are working and I'd bet there is plenty of data to back up the anecdotes.

If we offer children universal public education and yes I know that is a topic for another day then at the very least the U.S. should offer health/medical coverage for minors and those in college (working towards a degree).

I apologize for looking at this epidemic as an investment issue but it truly is. When students are not in school learning or even if they are at school sick they cannot learn. I have heard of stories where some parents have not taken their children to the doctor because they do not have any type of health insurance unless you call the ER a form of health insurance.

I don't believe in an all or nothing system because as an American I like to have at least a couple of options. Some type of two-tiered system sounds like an option to tinker with.

Comprehensive care for minors, preventative care for adults with anything beyond that requiring a premium and deductible. Not sure how prescription drugs would fit into all of this.

Whatever the solution is it will probably mean the destruction of the current cost/finance structure of how medicine is provided.

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Here's the solution...
Posted by: Burton on Sep 28, 2006 6:35 PM   
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...why don't YOU provide the health care. That's right. Why don't you simply buy a health policy for someone you know who does not have health care. Because that is what nationalized health care would come to, those who can now afford health care being forced to pay for those who do not. Only by doing it voluntarilly, we cut out the costs of a health care bureaucracy.

Another solution: support free clinics. Send them money or volunteer your time.

Another solution: why don't you go to medical school and then provide medical services for minimum wage?

Just once, I would like to see progressives put their money where their mouths are.

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» Answer back to Burton Posted by: mjabele