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Bush's Fight with Congress over Torture Defines Our Character

By Jeremy Brecher and Brendan L. Smith, TheNation.com. Posted September 16, 2006.


The standoff between the Senate and the Bush Administration over military tribunals, torture and war crimes will determine the kind of country America wishes to be.
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In a significant rebuff to President Bush and his security-driven strategy for Republican victory in November, the Senate Armed Services Committee on Thursday rejected the President's military detainee bill and passed a radically different alternative. At stake in this standoff between the President and the Senate are legal and moral issues central to the Constitution and the character of the American people: the right to a fair trial, the use of torture, the accountability of high government officials for war crimes. It also tests the powers of Congress and the Supreme Court to rein in an errant executive.

In the run-up to the midterm elections, the Bush Administration seeks to position Republicans as tough in pursuing the "war on terror," and to present Democrats as soft. By revealing recently that the government had been holding captives in secret jails and aims to try them at Guantánamo Bay, Bush and his advisers signaled that they are clearly hoping for an upswell of public support for Republicans who are "tough on terror."

But it was Republicans on the Senate Armed Services Committee, not Democrats, who led the battle this week against the President's proposal: John Warner, Lindsey Graham and John McCain were joined in the 15-to-9 committee vote by Susan Collins of Maine.

The President's proposal seeks to roll back two important decisions rendered by the Supreme Court on the legal rights and treatment of terror suspects: Hamdan v. Rumsfeld and Rasul v. Bush. It would establish tribunals at Guantánamo that would deny the most basic legal protections required by the Geneva Conventions, allow the use of hearsay evidence and evidence obtained by coercion, and allow defendants to be convicted on the basis of evidence they had never seen.

It also guts much of the War Crimes Act, which makes it a federal crime for an American to commit "grave violations" of the Geneva Conventions. While the Administration claims it is concerned about protecting CIA interrogators, its bill would also protect mercenaries and top government officials from prosecution. And it would apply retroactively to September 11, 2001.

The Senate Armed Services Committee bill, in contrast, aims to establish Guantánamo tribunals in accordance with the standards set out in the Supreme Court's Hamdan decision. And it would leave much more of the War Crimes Act intact. Nonetheless, the Warner bill has some significant flaws.

According to an analysis by Georgetown Law School professor and former Clinton official Marty Lederman, posted on his Balkinization blog, the Warner bill would reverse the Supreme Court's Rasul v. Bush decision by eliminating the power of the federal courts to hear the habeas corpus claims of any noncitizen detained overseas or any individual who has been determined by the United States to have been properly detained as an enemy combatant "other than in very circumscribed appeals from decisions of the Civilian Status Review Commissions or military tribunals."

This provision would foreclose hundreds of Guantánamo detainee claims currently pending before the courts. J. Wells Dixon of the Center for Constitutional Rights told The Nation: "For more than 200 years our nation has adhered to the fundamental principle that our government is one of laws, not men. The Administration and Warner bills threaten that tradition by stripping the federal courts of jurisdiction to hear pending habeas cases brought by Guantánamo detainees. If enacted, these bills would authorize the life-long detention of more than 450 men who have been imprisoned in Guantánamo for nearly five years without ever having been charged with an offense or receiving a fair hearing. This is unconscionable. Every person detained by our nation must receive a fair hearing -- one that does not rely on secret evidence or evidence obtained by torture or coercion -- because fairness and due process are what America stands for. We would demand nothing less for members of our military if they were captured abroad by our enemies. Congress should reject any provision that abandons habeas corpus."

The Warner bill would also amend the War Crimes Act to provide effective legal cover for many of the CIA's "alternative" techniques -- including use of hypothermia, sleep deprivation and threats of violence against detainees and their families.

In short, while some kind of trial for some alleged enemy combatants may well be appropriate, the Warner/McCain/Graham bill should not be seen as an acceptable alternative to the Bush bill. Basic human rights should not be abridged on the back of an envelope without hearings or debate.

Passage of the President's bill seems assured in the House of Representatives. Despite the objection of some Democrats, the House Armed Services Committee majority -- including twenty of its twenty-eight Democrats -- voted September 13 to send a bill incorporating the President's plans to the full House.


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Note This
Posted by: NoPCZone on Sep 16, 2006 4:58 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The 3 GOP senators spearheading this are all veterans. One- was a POW in the Vietnam War and one is still a reserve JAG Officer. All of the senior JAG officers in the military oppose Bush's plan. Gen. Vessey a former enlisted man who rose to the Chair of the Joint Chiefs while serving in WWII, Korea & Vietnam- opposes it. Gen Colin Powell, former Chairman of the Joint Chiefs and former Secretary of State also opposes it.

On the other side are a bunch of Chickenhawks who have never served in war or peace.

What does that tell you?

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» RE: Note This Posted by: ALANHESTER
» RE: Note This Posted by: ALANHESTER
Bill of Rights
Posted by: Jeanne on Sep 16, 2006 5:46 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The core of the matter is that the Bush administration is trying to canonize the elimination of civil rights. By denying these prisoners the same rights that are guaranteed American citizens in the Bill of Rights, the US denies the very principles for which they allege our troops are fighting to bring to the rest of the world. By trying to re-define torture according to W's standards (as opposed to those agreed upon by the rest of the world), W will be legitimizing the activities (tortures) that have already been committed at Gitmo, and the other "black" sites heretofore denied to exist. Yes, it is vital for W to have the wording changed; lacking that makes him and his underlings war criminals subject to prosecution.

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Using Torture to Crush Dissent
Posted by: sofla100 on Sep 16, 2006 9:07 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
GW's insistence on torture "being ok" does go beyond just the extraction of information from "terrorists." GW is sending a message that he is "above the law," and that he can do what he wants, whenever, however and to whomever he wants. This places him with such luminaries as Josef Stalin, who could order the disappearance and murder of whomever he choose. Bottom line, it will just be a matter of time before torture is applied to political opponents. As GW already said, "you are either with me or you are against me." Congree by not backing Bush may very well be protecting their own skin. As for those who oppose the Iraq war and GW's policies, by definition they are now all subversives, and subject to whatever interrogation is necessary to determine their "true motives." And you thought Stalin or Mao could never happen in America. Think again my friends.

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BUSH and AMERICANS MAY DEFINE *YOUR* CHARACTER, BUT NEITHER REPRESENTS ME
Posted by: ssegallmd on Sep 16, 2006 10:51 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Sorry, but I have a higher standard for myself than that which apparently is good enough for the neocons and the American people.

"Republican support for a law that countenances torture, prisoner abuse and repudiation of the Constitution, the Supreme Court and the Geneva Conventions could provide an important issue for Democratic Congressional candidates."

What kind of horror show are we living through when we have to read something as absurd as this?

So, now supporting torture but spitting at the Constitution, Supreme Court and the Geneva Convention could provide the brain-dead eunuch Democratic Party with an issue. Durrrr!!! Ya think!

The question is whether the brain-dead Stepford citizenry would even notice. Remember, these are the pet rocks that the Republicans seriously expect to convince that they are tough on terror just by saying so against all evidence - and probably will!! Durrr!!! A population with the analytical ability of an advanced Alzheimer's victim led by "people" with the morals of a nest of vipers. I wonder how that will turn out.

I think that we already know enough about the character of each to guess how that will go especially when you throw in the lap bitch Faux media and the Republicans' and Diebold's respect for fair elections.

How dare you put my name on that embarrassing package!!.

Vote with your feet. Emigrate to a healthier culture and stop holding your head down in shame. This isn't your fault - you knew better. These loser lemmings, the American sheople, dumber than cowpies, called you un-American and cowardly for trying to prevent them from making an obvious blunder. Now they want you to provide sons for their folly and pay for it too after forbidding you to even protest.

I'll be goddamned if I'm going to be denied a seat at the table but then be expected to help clean up the dishes and pay for the meal. Homey don't play dat.

And Homey don't let people who call him vile names and make angry and threatening faces at him claim to be his people. Nor am I interested in making their lives better even if I could, and I can't. I have no allegiance to that which has shown none to me - the neocons in government and the bleating cow pies all around us [Is that you I hear lumbering slowly by, Conservadorkus?].

If you think that you can freshen up that cesspool with a spray can of Lysol and your good intentions, go for it. Maybe everything will magically heal up. Maybe all of that optimism will pay off. Maybe the people will reach up their collective constipated ass and pull out some wisdom and some character at the last minute and avert disaster.More likely, they'll probably get their elbows caught in their colons.

You can't polish a turd, you know. And if you don't want to live or raise your kids under the stench of that turd, you have to leave its vicinity, not to try to rub the fetor off of it. You just end up covered in dookie yourself for your efforts, and you'll be inhaling second hand Republican reek and stench with every breath.

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Ashamed
Posted by: 4Reality on Sep 17, 2006 12:31 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Republican support for a law that countenances torture, prisoner abuse and repudiation of the Constitution, the Supreme Court and the Geneva Conventions could provide an important issue for Democratic Congressional candidates."

It seems surreal that we have a president and vice president doing everything in their power to allow torture and prisoner abuse; violations of our Constitution, the rule of law, and of the Geneva Conventions; and basically to disgrace our nation. Whenever I think it can't get any worse with these idiots, they sink even further. Why are ANY Democrats voting for this crap? I agree with the religious groups, whoever they are--no matter which party, they need to be voted out of office.

Black Hearts

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war criminals
Posted by: rsaxto on Sep 17, 2006 1:48 AM   
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The Bushies are whole-hog war criminals and the McCain group + many Democrats are half-assed war criminals. Democrats who want to win in November need to back a time table for complete withdrawal from Iraq as most folks who vote are sick and tired of half-assed war criminals and whole-hog war criminals. We need to end all war before we can have real peace and prosperity.

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Bush Is Covering His Own Ass
Posted by: R.I.P. on Sep 17, 2006 6:00 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"It also guts much of the War Crimes Act, which makes it a federal crime for an American to commit "grave violations" of the Geneva Conventions. While the Administration claims it is concerned about protecting CIA interrogators, its bill would also protect mercenaries and top government officials from prosecution. And it would apply retroactively to September 11, 2001."
This chickenshit admisistration is persuing a course of action to avoid later prosecution for themselves. The bill will would make TOP GOVERNMENT OFFICALS unaccountable and unpunishable for the HORRORS they have commited.
When you have a president who tells the American PEOPLE that he does not understand what "outrages upon human dignity" actually means.... Lord help humanity.... all of humanity folks.... our country is part of humanity! George Bush and Company are attempting to prepare for a future that will investigate this mob with the real and true facts and the laws that were created to protect humanity from monstrs like George Bush: which have to date been ignored in the name of "National Security". These people are war criminals right now - and they damn well know it. This is all so obvious I can not fathom why so many people just don't get it.

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Stand up put aside your shame
Posted by: snoringbear on Sep 17, 2006 7:21 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You know that when the GOP says that this goes too far something is really wrong! This regime has trampled the rights of everyone except the wealthy, regardless of race, creed, or color. We all know that,but what I want to know is why we are allowing it! If you truly believe that this kind of crap can't happen to you, you are mistaken. They are discussing using experimental weapons on American citizens who desent.[see cnn.com sept 12,2006]. If they are considering this kind of stuff what makes you think that they would not use these laws on their own citizenry they probably allready are! Be a patriot and stand up to the war criminals and other assorted scum bags! This is not the America that I GREW UP IN how about all of you. Vote out the vermin and vote in people who care about the constitution,bill of rights,rule of law,geneva conventions and those of us who are not wealthy. The time for change is now, now we decide our future and that of our children. Do what is right even if it scares the hell out of you! Send a message to those in power that they work for us and us only! DESENT. Put aside your shame and stand up for yourselves and those who cannot stand up for themselves! Do what is right protect your family, friends,environment,your country,your world from the warmongering criminal scum running our nation. Realize all the good we could have done with the money we currently send on the war in Iraq [9 billion a month].If you do nothing they win,if you do something they will lose. Good luck and GOD help us all.

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fear and hope
Posted by: scott balogh on Sep 17, 2006 8:29 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It seems every week or so something comes up from or about the white house that simply astounds me and gives me both hope and fear. It is happening again. Somehow I believe this current horror story will be burried by yet another one and we will continue down the road toward being dominatated by a tyranical ruling gang of vicious criminals. I foresee martial law here in the usa. There will be covert acts of violence (terrorism) against fellow citizens. Guerilla warfare will be part of our daily lives. Some of us will disappear. There will be public executions. I believe we are beyond the point of reversal simply because the military is in the hands of the businesses that profit from war and they will not relinquish their power. Most US citizens either do not recognize this trend or are too afraid to do anything about it because they have too much to lose. Most of us in this USA are comfortable now. Doing anything beside casting a vote takes too much energy and will probably be for naught so we will sit and wait. When the "darkness" falls we will have to fight, litterally, or be lost.

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Bushies' Outrages Amount to Treason
Posted by: dyspeptic on Sep 17, 2006 11:13 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
These guys all take an oath to uphold and defend the constitution. Their violations of this around human and civil rights, on what seems like a DAILY basis, could fill pages. Using their offices for personal benefit and the benefit of the financial enterprises they really represent is equally treasonous. That this guy claims to speak for Jesus, into the bargain, is the sureal icing on the cake.

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Doesn't define my character
Posted by: owleyes on Sep 17, 2006 2:46 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I didn't ask for any of this. I exercised what power I had in 2004 when I voted for John Kerry. It wasn't enough. I'm probably still not over it. Now our government spies on people, tortures people, kills people. It's horrible, but I am in no way responsible. Because the US government does not rule with my consent, its decision whether to be more barbaric or less barbaric at any given moment has no bearing on my character, nor on anyone else's who did not vote for George Bush and has no influence in government. That is why I find the title of this article sensationalistic and somewhat offensive.

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This IS your war, Mr. President!
Posted by: keefus55 on Sep 17, 2006 3:50 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
President Bush, in his recent news conference in the Rose Garden defending his proposal to "reinterpret" article 3 of the Geneva Conventions as part of his "war on terror" was ripe with contradictions.

For example, during the question and answer period with reporters, Mr. Bush animatedly asserted, "We didn't start this war"!

Mr. President, I respectfully and categorically disagree! That's because it was you, Mr. President (along with your PNAC handlers) who radically changed our nation's military approach from a predominantly defensive posture into one of initiating wars of "pre-emption"…that is, wars designed to invade, overthrow and then indefinitely occupy the sovereign territory of other nations.

This is a major, fundamental shift in our nation's long-held approach in our dealings with other countries. Unfortunately, this radical shift in our doctrine has done nothing but inflame an already intense hatred within the Islamic world toward the United States and our allies in the Middle East (such as our continued, unquestioning support for the Government of Israel).

I firmly believe that if the tables were turned and it was OUR nation's women and children who were now being bombed, raped, indefinitely incarcerated and/or killed by a foreign occupying super-power like the United States, WE would now be the ones attempting to retaliate in whatever way we could to end such ruthless occupation. Unfortunately, a growing majority of the citizens of Iraq and Afghanistan now view us not as liberators…but as conquerors and occupiers..

So, it that sense, you are correct, Mr. President…9/11 wasn't the start of this war. But, it was your and your PNAC crony's imperialistic desires for world domination that have since turned what was simply a simmering hatred of our support of the Government of Israel's obsessive expansionist policies in the region into an all out guerilla war…a war that currently has no end in sight despite your repeated pleas for us to "stay the course." You and your fake "wars of liberation" have simply fomented yet more hatred for the United States among the citizens of the Islamic world and, in the process, you have handed the terrorists the most absolutely fantastic recruiting tool they could ever hope to receive.

What's more, rather than admitting that it is your Administration's imperialistic policies that are at the root of this madness, you've now sent your FBI, CIA, NSA and Homeland Security goon squads to tap your citizen's phones without a warrant, strip search us at airports, sift through our electronic and other mail at will, monitor our Internet conversations and then throw those of us whom you (or your Homeland Security "thought police") somehow deem are "against you" into a military jail in a faraway land without due process (let alone any hope of a fair trial!) all in the name of "protecting" the rest of us from an enemy that you, yourself, helped create.

Sadly, rather than making us feel safer, all you have really done is to turn our once proud and free nation into an armed camp…a country that is now ever-more-ruthlessly controlled by your own 21st Century version of George Orwell's "Big Brother".

No, Mr. President, there is absolutely no doubt about it. It was YOU who escalated this war and it is YOU who have now brought the scourge of terrorism down upon all our heads.

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If we really cared, we'd sack 90% of them
Posted by: Bic Pentameter on Sep 17, 2006 4:35 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
But we won't. We all know that our own senators and reps have to get themselves fitted into the game before our districts and/or states realize much benefit.

Maybe if we had some devil's advocate in the fray it could come to more of a head. Imagine some candidate crowing about making the US the kind of society we really want, where we can kill anyone we don't like in the name of peace and prosperity, and conveniently lable as terrorists anyone who speaks out.

If that's where we're headed, why not wave that banner? Such a candidate might manage to collect quite a few votes, but might also spotlight the hypocracy of our current trends.

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Field of dreams
Posted by: talkville on Sep 18, 2006 2:26 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The smog of Rhetoric seems to be thicker and thicker as days go by. The prodigal child of Mother England and her Grand Empire strains to emulate and restore that grand, Civilized image: quaint. Transformed by swipes and splashes of 'creativity', 'imagination' and 'robust' vitality, the Soldier becomes the Warrior, the Country becomes the Homeland, torture becomes 'unclear'. National means Global; wherever one lives, the space and the time are ours. "We" own, "you" rent, "you" exist, "we" live. I can't see for the smog, so I'll enter deeper and deeper into this 'clear' glade of solipsism.

Humpty Dumpty paid words when they did extra work; he has lots and lots of money. Definitions and Enclosures have more in common with each other, it seems. Looks like these Humpty Dumpties of ours have taken on a genuinely Uber-man project: enclose the OED, unit by unit, until the entire Field is fenced, guarded and secure and the Harvest surplus is collected.

The rest of us shut up. Or perhaps we shut down. It's all the same to Humpty Dumpty, or rather his magically resurrected corpse dressed in his spiffy new suit on that magically resurrected wall - above the smog in that rarefied, spectral world of the Idea.

Our language is tortured and terrorized enough; I think I'll shut up.

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The War goes on and on and on
Posted by: mistery509 on Sep 20, 2006 1:45 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Once upon a time, long, long ago there was a beautiful kingdom called Dream Land.
It had many lakes, rivers, forests and many wild birds and animals. The king and queen
of Dream Land had 2 sons, Gorgy and Jenky. The sons had many friends and they
were named Rummy, Chenny, Worly and a pretty girl called Ricey.
The sons grew up and were happy to live in the land of Dream Land. One day Gorgy
came up to his father, the king, and asked his father if he could be king. His father
being a kindly soul agreed to make Gorgy, King of Dream Land. Now Gorgy was
a very selfish, greedy young man and his friends and his brother were also very
selfish, unkind people. They were bored and wanted to do bad things and decided to invade
a country. All of Gorgy’s friends loved cabbages and since Cabbage Land had tons
and tons of cabbages, that country was attacked and taken over.

Gorgy and his friends were very happy because now they could have cabbage rolls,
cabbage soup, and all kinds of cabbage food. But something did go wrong. The
people of Cabbage Land were very angry that their cabbages were taken away and they
picked up their pitch forks, baseball bats and brown missile rocks and fought back
and War was declared.

Soon Dream Land became a desolate land. The trees were broken down, the lakes
dried up and all the fishes in the lakes died and the animals ran away to other lands.
The war continued on for many, many years until all the cabbages were destroyed
and all the people starved. Dream Land was no more. Now it had to be called
Nightmare Land. Gorgy and his friends did not know what to do. Their land was
destroyed. If you listen very carefully, you can hear the fighting still going on and on
and on and on.

The moral of this story, boys and girls, is this:

IF YOU SWING A TIGER BY THE TAIL, YOU CAN NOT LET GO

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BUSH should stop trying to use freedom or democracy
Posted by: Burtonger on Sep 21, 2006 4:48 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The PRESIDENT OF THE U.S.A. is legally an international war criminal,traitor, LIAR, thief, killer of innocent women,children,civilians and too many other things to mention. BUSH stands for the opposite of freedom and democracy so it's ridiculous when he tries to use these concepts ,especially with his limited vocabulary or stunted view of the world....KARMA is coming eventually and he cannot change that universal law no matter who he threatens with his style of freedom& democracy. YEAH YEAH YEAH christian King George ,what a bad joke on the world ,just like a terminal disease spreading throughout the land. IMPEACH-PROSECUTE-EXECUTE in the name of AMERICA for a free world without BUSHCO

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Bush says he tortured a guy and found out about explosives in the WTC
Posted by: diggins on Sep 21, 2006 9:37 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]