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Enough of the 9/11 Conspiracy Theories, Already

By Matthew Rothschild, The Progressive. Posted September 18, 2006.


We have enough proof that the Bush administration is a bunch of lying evildoers. We don't need to make it up.

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At almost every progressive gathering where there's a question and answer session, someone or other vehemently raises 9/11 and espouses a grand conspiracy theory. If you haven't had the pleasure of enduring these rants, please let me share.

Here's what the conspiracists believe:

  • 9/11 was an inside job.
  • Members of the Bush Administration ordered it, not Osama bin Laden.
  • Arab hijackers may not have done the deed.
  • On top of that, the Twin Towers fell not because of the impact of the airplanes and the ensuing fires but because the Bush Administration got agents to plant explosives at the base of those buildings.
  • Building 7, another high-rise at the World Trade Center that fell on 9/11, also came down by planted explosives.
  • The Pentagon was not hit by American Airlines Flight 77 but by a smaller plane or a missile.
  • And the Pennsylvania plane did not crash as a result of the revolt by the passengers but was brought down by the military.

I'm amazed at how many people give credence to these theories. Everyone's an engineer. People who never even took one college science course can now hold forth at great length on how the buildings at the World Trade Center could not possibly have collapsed in the way they did and why the Pentagon could not have been struck by that American Airlines jet.

Problem is, some of the best engineers in the country have studied these questions and come up with perfectly logical, scientific explanations for what happened.

The American Society of Civil Engineers and FEMA conducted an in-depth investigation of the World Trade Center. The team members included the director of the Structural Engineering Institute of the American Society of Civil Engineers, the senior fire investigator for the National Fire Protection Association, professors of fire safety, and leaders of some of the top building design and engineering firms, including Skidmore Owings & Merrill in Chicago, Skilling Ward Magnusson Barkshire in Seattle, and Greenhorne & O'Mara in Maryland.

It concluded that massive structural damage caused by the crashing of the aircrafts into the buildings, combined with the subsequent fires, "were sufficient to induce the collapse of both structures."

The National Institute of Standards and Technology did its own forty-three volume study of the Twin Towers. "Some 200 technical experts . . . reviewed tens of thousands of documents, interviewed more than 1,000 people, reviewed 7,000 segments of video footage and 7,000 photographs, analyzed 236 pieces of steel from the wreckage, [and] performed laboratory tests and sophisticated computer simulations," the institute says.

It also concluded that a combination of the crash and the subsequent fires brought the towers down: "In each tower, a different combination of impact damage and heat-weakened structural components contributed to the abrupt structural collapse."

Popular Mechanics, first in its March 2005 cover story and now in its expanded book, Debunking 9/11 Myths, after interviewing scores of other experts in the engineering field, takes apart the most popular contentions of the conspiracists. "In every case we examined, the key claims made by conspiracy theorists turned out to be mistaken, misinterpreted, or deliberately falsified," the book says.

I made a few calls myself, including to Gene Corley, who conducted the American Society of Civil Engineers/FEMA study, and to Mete Sozen, structural engineering professor at Purdue, who was one of the principal authors of "The Pentagon Building Performance Report" of January 2003, which was done under the auspices of the American Society of Civil Engineers and the Structural Engineering Institute. I also contacted engineering professors at MIT and other leading universities in the country, and none of them puts any stock in the 9/11 conspiracy theories. In fact, they view them as a huge waste of time. They are busy trying to figure out how to prevent buildings from falling in the future.

Of course, any conspiracy theorist worth his or her salt will claim that all these people are in on the plot. And that I am in on it, too.

Get over it.

The guru of the 9/11 conspiracy movement is David Ray Griffin, an emeritus professor not of engineering but of philosophy and theology at the Claremont School of Theology. First in The New Pearl Harbor and then in The 9/11 Commission Report: Omissions and Distortions and now in Christian Faith and the Truth Behind 9/11, Griffin has peddled his conspiracy theory.

He's not alone, of course. A myriad of websites devote themselves to this subject, and several films are circulating on it, including Loose Change. There's even a group called Scholars for 9/11 Truth, which insists "the World Trade Center was almost certainly brought down by controlled demolitions." Most prominent among these is Steven E. Jones, professor of physics and astronomy at Brigham Young University, whose primary field is not engineering but cold fusion, according to Debunking 9/11 Myths.


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Matthew Rothschild is the editor of The Progressive.

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True or Not
Posted by: marxalot on Sep 18, 2006 12:25 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Whether the various theories are true or not, they play into the administration's hands, making progressives look like a bunch of loones.

My conspiracy theory is that the right is fueling all of this noise to help discredit legitimate criticism of the administration's handling of the country post-911. Sounds like a Rove thing, doesn't it?

Further it is entirely possible that elements within the State Department knew of the plot and 'let it happen.' That would be believable to me. The 'Pearl Harbor' event that had been wished for by the neocon faction at State.

The article is correct though, this stuff should not be on anyone's front burner right now.

» RE: True or Not Posted by: mazel
» RE: True or Not Posted by: marxalot
» marxalot, I agree Posted by: kellysgarden
» RE: marxalot, I agree Posted by: rsaxto
» Here we go again... Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Here we go again... Posted by: Techubus
» RE: Here we go again... Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Here we go again... Posted by: conquerormarr
» RE: Here we go again... Posted by: Conservasaurus
» who w/the same name is related?? Posted by: Corps_8_my_baby
» I love being "right"! Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: I love being "right"! Posted by: Techubus
» I agree Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: True or Not Posted by: VisionQuest
» RE: True or Not Posted by: harris
» RE: True or Not Posted by: brunowe
» Here comes the GOP..AGAIN! Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Here comes the GOP..AGAIN! Posted by: ShoShenQ
» RE: Here comes the GOP..AGAIN! Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: True or Not Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: True or Not Posted by: WILDSTARCHILD
» RE: True or Not Posted by: outsidea
» RE: True or Not Posted by: WILDSTARCHILD
» RE: True or Not Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: True or Not Posted by: bodo
» RE: True or Not Posted by: conquerormarr
» "look like a bunch of loonies" Posted by: thoughtcriminal
Report from Implosion World
Posted by: dancerkc on Sep 18, 2006 12:48 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
For a nice report released 8 August 2006 by Brent Blanchard (on ImplosionWorld.com) titled "A Critical Analysis of the Collapse of WTC Towers 1, 2, & 7 From an Explosives and Conventional Demolition Industry Viewpoint" get the report (as a PDF) directly from
Report (PDF).
The site links are: Implosion World Site
and Page with Link to PDF report

It states the Blanchard is director of field operation at Protec Documentation Services Inc (www.protecservices.com) and says that "Protec is one of the world's most knowledgeable independent authorities on explosive demolition..."

The report gives very good arguments and observations cutting down conspiracy theorists and deserves to be read. It displays the engineering knowledge from the field and good common sense arguments.

I am sorry to say that where I have seen postings to this article elsewhere those postings show the dominance of those who failed at science, math and logic. Between the Bush admin's faith-based crap and all the imagination-fueled conspiracies I worry about the new mini-dark ages of the mind.

» RE: He may be a good photographer... Posted by: dancingcloud
Pearl Harbor and office politics
Posted by: dancerkc on Sep 18, 2006 1:03 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The comparisons with Pearl Harbor are only good in so far as they both have poorly researched and highly imagined conspiracy theories. In the case of Pearl more damage was caused by office politics in terms of power struggle between the real code breakers (i.e. Joe Rochefort) in the Hawaiian office and the power grab by the Redman brothers in Washington. They almost cost us victory at Midway (except for the command in Hawaii going around orders from Washington) and were responsible for the public court case against the Chicago newspaper in mid-1942 which caused the Japanese to change the miliary part of the JN-25, effectively all but blinding us at the start of the Guadalcanal operation in August.

That cost us heavily. The court case was about the release (un-intended) of secure information about code breaking), something noticed but dismissed by the Japanese until the case found its way to court on the insistence of the Redmans.

This is detailed in "I Was There" by Edwin T. Layton, in charge of the code operations in Hawaii with Rochefort. Rochefort was later removed from code breaking work by the angry Redmans who wanted the credit for themselves. Rochefort didn't care who got the credit, but maybe he should have. He might have remained in operation as our most effective cryptologists and one of the inventors of our signal intelligence operations.

Basic moral: it is the internal, who's-in'charge political struggles which either do more damage to us than the enemy or allow the enemy to inflict serious damage on us. Draw your comparisons.

More like the Reichstag fire
Posted by: dancerkc on Sep 18, 2006 1:09 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Rather than a Pearl comparison the 9/11 tragedy might be better compared with the Reichstag Fire which allowed the Nazis all manner of excuses for wiping out all resemblance of a legitimate government and put themselves in power, then totally changing the conditions within Germany. One change after another, one set of law changes after another and so forth were fueld by the "crisis" shown by the Reichstag fire.

The difference in the two events would be that the Nazis fired the Reichstag themselves while the neocons merely took advantage of 9/11's occurence.

» RE: More like the Reichstag fire Posted by: conquerormarr
» Nazi lineage begets Nazis Posted by: harpy
» The language is the issue. Posted by: bullwhip7
Give this guy a contract!
Posted by: DoctorAndy on Sep 18, 2006 1:26 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Mr. Rothschild (a NON-engineer?) has composed the most magnificent example of scientific disinformation that I have seen to date on 911 and should be hired by the Bush gang, if he hasn't been already. Give him the Karl Rove Pig Cosmetics Award!

» RE: Give this guy a contract! Posted by: ljsullivan1166@earthlink.net
» RE: Give this guy a contract! Posted by: starvinmarvy
most likely
Posted by: rsaxto on Sep 18, 2006 1:49 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If everything in this piece is true then the most likely explanation is that elements of the Bushies suppressed a response which could have prevented the success of at least part of the 9/11 events. That is enough for impeachment in addition to the numerous other illegal Bushie actions. The massive Bushie secrecy around 9/11 validates this conclusion. If all of the Bushie secrets were revealed then impeachment would become a certainty because they did so much that is criminal.

» Saxto, an additional comment Posted by: kellysgarden
Let's stop asking questions....
Posted by: bornxeyed on Sep 18, 2006 2:00 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
and just accept what the government has to say about the most improbable event of all time.

During an administration based solely on lies we are simply to believe what it has to say about the precipitating event of every action this government has taken.

Stop asking questions. We are to call this progressive?

Look at Alternet's nifty new sponsors.

Capital One!

Who's wallet are you in, Alternet?

Bellsouth?

I remember a cynical twist on an old sing-songy Bell System company ad:
"We're all 'inspected', New York Telephone"

Unanswered Questions
Posted by: beskeptic2024 on Sep 18, 2006 2:37 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Interesting article, however, it failed to mention a link I have always found curious about 9/11. Why did the ISI director order the wiring of hundreds of thousands of dollars to the 9/11 hijackers leading up to the attack? Why was he or Pakistan never punished? This story has been reported in the WSJ and the Asia Times and while not demonstrating complicity in the planning by the Bush administration, this evidence demonstrates that they knowingly used 9/11 to attack not our enemies behind the attacks, but rather a nation innocent of wrongdoing on that day.

Also, it is perhaps the most unprogressive thing that I can imagine to say that the people should not ask questions and accept the official version of events. It is that type of belief that would have allowed the CIA's decades of coups and assassination attempts to remain hidden, that would have allowed Watergate to go unpunished, and the list goes on. And furthermore, there is nothing kooky or crazy about demanding the full, detailed facts of everything about that day from our government.

I wonder if the writer of this article and those that instantly shut their eyes and ears when confronted with questions, reasonable unanswered questions about 9/11, are just afraid of what road they might be led down if they start to dig too deep. For those that believe that our leaders would never dream of doing such a thing, one only need to look at Operation Northwoods, in which all of the top military men in the nation signed off on a proposal to stage fake terror attacks as pretext for a war with Cuba. At that time, we thankfully had an executive unwilling to go that far to achieve its ends, but that is not to say that under a different set of leaders at a different time, such a plan would be scrapped for moral reasons if it was believed to justify the ends.

A link to the ISI story
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Front_Page/FD08Aa01.html

Think for yourselves.

» RE: Unanswered Questions Posted by: helenwheels
» RE: Unanswered Questions Posted by: WILDSTARCHILD
» RE: Unanswered Questions Posted by: beskeptic2024
Paul Feldman, London
Posted by: Paul, London on Sep 18, 2006 3:39 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The conspiracy theory approach gives the state much too much credibility. If everything is just one big conspiracy, then the state is not only all-powerful but, more importantly, in total control of events and outcomes and can never be defeated. Nothing could be further from the truth. Just look at Iraq, the aftermath of Katrina and now Afghanistan. The state is in a right state - not at all the master of events.

» RE: Paul Feldman, London Posted by: Lauren
Bush Science - Part I
Posted by: dainin on Sep 18, 2006 3:39 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The seven steps of NIST’s collapse initiation sequence that are common to both towers, clarified and summarized as fairly as possible, are as follows.

1. A number of columns were severed by aircraft impact
2. Loads were redistributed to the remaining columns
3. Fireproofing was “widely dislodged”
4. Columns and floor assemblies were softened by high temperatures
5. Softened floor assemblies began to sag
6. Sagging floors pulled the exterior columns inward, causing columns to buckle
7. Instability spread around the exterior of the building

The first two steps of this sequence are not surprising, although there are assumptions on NIST’s part. At step one, we can take their word for it that approximately 15% of the columns were severed in each building by aircraft impact. Note that this is quite low compared to original design claims reported in the mid-sixties by the Engineering News-Record that suggested the towers could lose more than 25% of their columns without having any problems. As for the second step, NIST says the loads actually decreased on some columns and increased slightly for others. Again, no problem here considering similar design claims that the exterior columns could withstand 2000% increases in live load.

With step three we quickly get to the core of NIST’s collapse initiation argument. Their report states that “The WTC towers likely would not have collapsed under the combined effects of aircraft impact damage and the extensive, multi-floor fires if the thermal insulation had not been widely dislodged or had been only minimally dislodged by aircraft impact.” Considering that NIST so clearly depends on extensive fireproofing loss, you would think they would have spent a great deal of their time and money investigating this effect and communicating the details.

But no, one had to be very patient and focused to find what evidence NIST provided for this crucial claim. Their test for fireproofing loss, never inserted in the draft reports, involved shooting a total of fifteen rounds from a shotgun at non-representative samples in a plywood box. Flat steel plates were used instead of column samples, and no floor deck samples were tested at all. In the end, they slid the results into a 12 page appendix to the final report.

Unfortunately, it’s not hard to see that these tests actually disproved their findings. One reason is that there is no evidence that a Boeing 767 could transform into any number of shotgun blasts. Nearly 100,000 blasts would be needed based on NIST’s own damage estimates, and these would have to be directed in a very symmetrical fashion to strip the columns and floors from all sides. However, it is much more likely that the aircraft debris was a distribution of sizes from very large chunks to a few smaller ones, and that it was directed asymmetrically. Also, there is no indication that fireproofing was stripped from beneath the aluminum cladding on the exterior columns, but in subsequent steps of their story, NIST depends on this.

To put NIST’s pivotal claim to rest, there was simply no energy available to cause fireproofing loss. Previous calculations by engineers at MIT had shown that all the kinetic energy from the aircraft was consumed in breaking columns, crushing the floors and destroying the aircraft itself. But NIST’s tests indicate that 1 MJ of energy was needed per square meter of surface area to shear the fireproofing off. For the areas in question, more than 6,000 square meters of column, floor deck and floor joist surface, the extra energy needed would be several times more than the entire amount of kinetic energy available to begin with.

We could stop there, and realize that NIST’s story is not plausible. But to emphasize just how implausible it is, let’s go on to step four (next message).

Bush Science - Part II
Posted by: dainin on Sep 18, 2006 3:40 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
On to step four, where high temperatures softened the columns and floors. NIST did tests for this as well. The first test, that examined paint deformation on steel samples chosen specifically from the fire zones, showed that less than 2% of the samples had seen temperatures above 250 C. Another test gave the one-sided result that no samples saw temperatures above 600 C. The obvious problem here is that steel does not soften or lose significant strength at the low temperatures indicated, yet NIST’s story depends on the softening or weakening of vast quantities of steel in both core and exterior columns, floor decks and floor joists. The less obvious problem is that structural steel components are chosen for use in buildings based in part on fire resistance tests. According to Underwriters Laboratories’ (UL’s) Chief Executive Officer, tests on steel components for the WTC buildings were performed by UL nearly forty years ago, and the results verified conformance to the New York City code requirements for multiple hours of fire resistance at much higher temperatures.

An important thing to realize here is the duration of the WTC fires. Many have noted that these fires were not very intense, because the black smoke indicated Oxygen starved fires that would have produced relatively little heat. But according to NIST, the fires in the failure zones did not last very long either. NIST points to the east wall of WTC 2 as the failure zone, and say that the fires reached this area within 10 to 20 minutes of aircraft impact. NIST goes on to say that it took 50 to 60 minutes for the fires to migrate around the core of the building in WTC 1. These official estimates indicate that the fires in the failure zones of the towers lasted for only about 45 minutes in each case, much less than the 3 or 4 hours of fire resistance required by the NYC code.

How about step five? As part of NIST’s investigation, Underwriters Laboratories performed additional tests to establish the fire resistance of models of the WTC floor assemblies. The results were that the floor assembly models not only didn’t collapse, invalidating the long-standing “Pancake Theory”, but the floors barely sagged – only about 3 inches, despite the use of double the known floor load and two hours of fire exposure (i.e. over twice the duration of fires known to have existed in the failure zones). NIST then added this 3 inch sag to their computer model, and by way of an unknown transformation, it suddenly became 42 inches of extreme sagging.

At this point it is difficult to continue, but since our own futures depend on this story, we must. Step six says that sagging floors pulled exterior columns inward. To support this, NIST plugged at least nine different scenarios into their computer, with just one of these showing inward bowing in their virtual reality. To do this, they had to take a computer mock-up of a nine story high by nine column wide wall section, remove it from it’s web of support by “disconnection”, strip off ALL the fireproofing, expose this section to twice the known fire time yet again (90 minutes), and then apply some unspecified, utterly miraculous inward pull. Without a doubt, one rarely finds more shameful and obvious examples of the distortion of science.

How about NIST’s last collapse initiation step (seven)? They don’t say much here except that “instability spread” around the entire building. Since the buildings came down uniformly into their own footprints, and did so in approximately 10 seconds, there was precious little time for instability spread. If we give them half a second to accomplish this, the instability would have had to move at nearly twice the speed of sound. That is, of course, not realistic.

After providing a clearly false collapse initiation sequence, NIST says “global collapse ensued”.

Nice prediction.

» Very well stated! Posted by: citizenjoe
» RE: Bush Science - Part II Posted by: tiellis
» RE: Bush Science - Part II Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Bush Science - Part II Posted by: jag585
If the official 9/11 story is true
Posted by: hankgeorge on Sep 18, 2006 3:41 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...why did Bush put Kenneth Zelikow, a close ally, in charge of the commission's key position: "sifting and winnowing" what was aired and what was suppressed? Why did they ignore all evidence that did not fit their theory. Why did they habitually alter the "official" 9/11 timeline, as Senator Mark Dayton demanded to know when he appeared before the Commission? Are his demands answered or covered in the Commission's report? Why was the statement of FAA's Norman Mineta, who was in the command center with Cheney, not covered in the final report? This is the one where Cheney was being asked by the soldier at his side if "the orders still stand" as the "757" closed in on the Pentagon. Which orders, Mr. Vice President? Why didn't the Pentagon's superb air defense system shoot down this vulnerable target? When challenged to debate their findings, why did the experts decline? They gave the shabby, intellectually-impoverished explanation that they did not want to give credibility to the "conspiracy theorists." I wonder if they did not want to lose in full view of the press?

Sorry, fellas, there is just too much that does not add up here.

And if there EVER was a controlled demolition, it was WTC-7. Watch the film, for heaven's sake. I don't think anyone can see this and come back with a straight face denying that it was "pulled" (the REAL meaning of "pulled" is implode, by the way).

Too many unanswered questions. Too much selective reporting of only that which buttresses the official story. This brief essay does nothing whatsoever to "debunk" the view that 9/11 was other than as portrayed. And the new "book" debunking the conspiracy theories...have you seen this book? I have. It is absurd, when put side by side with Griffin's work, etc. It is a hastily constructed unscientific piece of drivel that does nothing to debunk the challenges to 9/11.

Want an eye-popping experience? Read David Hopsicker's TERRORLAND: THE 9/11 COVERUP IN FLORIDA. See what you have not been told about Mohamed Atta and his buddies. This from interviews with people who were there, including his ex-girlfriend. The unexplored issues raised in this one book are mindboggling. Hopsicker, by the way, is a professional investigative reporter. Then read CROSSING THE RUBICON by Michael Ruppert. Oddly, all the sound research and superb documentation comes in books that challenge the official story.

Clearly, some people are getting scared if they have to grind out junk food like that new unscientific "pamphlet" with the gung-ko preface by John McCain.

It should be interesting to see what happens when LOOSE CHANGE is released at Sundance and then in 500 theatres nationwide. Maybe the public will finally have a chance to see 9/11 from a different perspective. That would be refreshing to say the least.

I do not think either assessment of 9/11 is proven. I think we need an unbiased investigation where all the evidence is presented, questioned, debated, studied further...until we get as close to the truth as humans can. Is this unreasonable, considering the magnitude of the implications? I think not. And a burgeoning number of Americans are thinking likewise, aren't they? Read the polls, gents...

Another white wash artical by Mathew. again???
Posted by: Obviousllynotbuyingit on Sep 18, 2006 3:46 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Ohh boy Mathew you really have some credit there now ,
I seam to see a lot of your right leaning articals lately, Its Just imbarrassing to watch you do this too your self, first of all 9/11 was most definatlly a work in progress weather bush had anything too do with it or not, I will say this , Fact is bush does have a neiphew that has a contract securing the trade centers And its not just by chance that a unschedualled Maintenance operation Had been preformed one week before 9/11, for a period of one full day the electronic survelience camera feeds were shut down, this is fact, or Mabe would like to say its just clerical era that it was recorded as unschedualled?, Plenty of time in 12hrs too go into cargo elevators which also have access to the main support structur, and lace thermite rope charges around the collums needed to create such a spectacular demolition, one as i have been yold by many mnay carreer Demo experts a work of art?. and this Maintenance period i talk of also has EYE witness's say they saw Vans unloading crates or boxes into the cargo elevator Just one week before 9/11. but owner's ? deny having any security Maintance done, They will not deny they do Regular maintance, but unschedualed , owner stated he can't recall, Bacause the files were destroyed in the colaps, Funny thing is every schedualled maintance file was redy'd and availible to the insurance co at there request , so This is real fishy too me and should stand grounds for quistion, why was there a UNschedualled SECURUTY maintanace that was NOT recorded can be verified and EYE witnessed by workers, not too mention The fact that Bushes neiphew has the contract to do the Security maintance At the Trade centers????, OK lets move On, In less than one Hour Planes created a fire so hot it totalled Trade centers Large POOL of molted steal were melted fast enought to just Pancake the Trade centers straight down, {no titernot even a toter}.
This happened With Jet feul? as most seen over 75% of that Jet feul was destroyed on Impact, That ids visiable you see it exploid on impact every on watched it, It phlumes were carefully measured < so with 75% of the feul Wasted on impact your telling me the remaining 25% melted the Steal and droped the Trade centers In One HOUR , and were Is the steal if it just weaked it enought to create a pancake effect, do you realixe JUST how MUCH steal that is In the structur of Those buildings, No freack"N way this jet feul even 100% of it would Have reached Tempuratures High enought in ONE HOUR too drop the Building right in there track, Ok think dummies>
now lets really ask a tough one, Were is the Bodies of Passengers, I mean A perfectlly preserved Passport survived the inpact at the trade center, This is first count By Buch Co cheney Co , there evidence terrorist were involed I mean come on they turned right around and Put this prestine Terrorist Passport on TV show the Face of terror, If the Bodies of every on on theat Plane were Vaporized How convient the Passport survided and Hey the found that suckrer In record TIMe, One day iyt took Bush to recover that Passport from the debre that took Months to sift threw trying to find bodies????????????, well Yes bodies wer found , BUt not the ones on the Plane??????, and or any other Passports of anyone on planes and or luggage??, Building 7 Silverstein say Just Pull it, ash a demo team ewhat that means , I mean a regular joe Like Silver would Likely Mean to say . If in fact he was reffering to get the Fire fighters out of the builing, { get those Guys out??????}ohh well The building Fell fast< i Mean really fact, Faster than just dropping a rock of the Building at the same time, I could DEBUNK you at every turn if your a fool enought to try and Ignore the Facts ,enought to not be totally suspecious, why After inquirys of A 9/11 research team was requested By the Families, Bush refused desperatlly 2 times To form a 9/11 comission ,

OPage two
Posted by: Obviousllynotbuyingit on Sep 18, 2006 3:49 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
and this as public record made intell The 9/11 commision Agreed no sworne testomonies were too be heard in the 9/11 inquires from the 9/11 commision, and Only of the Commision was formed for prevention reason and were not on a mission ?/

I QUOTE BUSH { too Not finger piont or Blame anyone for the events of 9/11} But to find out ways too prevent such an attack in the future, Referr to bush speaches for the Transcript. And It was 6 months of desperate fighting with staff and The families of the 9/11 truth movement that Bush they even slippied up and recorded that Litttle telle telle tale For use as fichy as it would be . And if you think sworn testamonies in a comittie formed to reveiw Nationakl. securuity issues is a nation securuity rick , Like Bush thinks or want you to beleive your a fool,., ads a oppointed comitty by Bush for just sucjh review they become trusted members of such sensitive Material and Testomonies,

Its a national security issue becaUSE Bush and Co would be in Danger of treasonious act of agression apon on siol against Our on people, and Well a lot of planes carfull executive orders would be needed { DONE THaT??, http://www.fas.org/sgp/bush/index.html a enormus abundace of Information would need classified top secrect, done that, record filing of eny administration , fact is More that all Presidents combined in History, Over 500 a year, Most presidents only classified 150 documents in there hole carrier Bush Executive Order on Classified National Security Information, to amend executive order 12958, signed March 25, 2003 (Edited Version reflecting changes made to EO 12958.) http://www.fas.org/sgp/bush/eoamend.html, Fill free if possible to go too the site and Referance Dates. IT is Importain because no/ Issue of concering Date merits These executive orders not Even 9/11 or Iraqs invasion date congressional over site Was also removed by Bush as a executive order , RUBBER stamped By very neo con in congress and A few Democrates too>...http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/2001/10/wh100901.html PLEASE notew that was suspecuslly One month after 9/11 press briefing, October 9, 2001 and we were not even in afganistan, yet, Also 9/11 event is Not a issue FBI has concerning BIn Laden, No check your self the FBI has no relation to BIN on there Most wanted site for the Attacks of 9/11 as a matter of Fact no one does no foreign or demostic , at least not in conection to 9/11 why , THER IS NO PROFF

Zionist Israelis were the architects of 9-11
Posted by: mat38 on Sep 18, 2006 4:26 AM   
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Why were so many Israeli men whe were found here in the U.S. after 9-11, who were in this country illegally, suspected of collaboration with the attacks and detained, questioned and then sent back to Israel without any explanation?
It's a fact that in New Jersey several Israeli men were witnessed dancing in the streets full of joy and celebration during the WTC attacks. They were on top of their white moving van and a woman who saw them thought that they were Arabs who seemed too damn happy that the towers were under attack and they were taking pictures, cheering and high-fiving each other. When a cop resonded to her call the men were detained and held for several months then mysteriously let go.
Why was Benyamon Netanyahu warned, along with other Zionists, not to go out in New York and to stay away from the WTC that morning?
There are way too mnay unanswered questions about Israels role in getting America caught up in it's ongoing war against Arab people.

The conspiracy is not a theory if it is based on fact.
Posted by: terradea on Sep 18, 2006 4:30 AM   
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I just keep remembering the radio interview I heard with the "knowledgeable" author of the Popular Mechanics anti-conspiracy theory article in which he said that the DNA tests proved who the hijackers were. When the interviewer asked him how the investigators obtained the original samples of DNA from the hijackers in order to compare, he had no answer. When the interviewer asked him more specifics about he DNA tests, he had no answer. When the interviewer asked him why the government was refusing to let the public see videos of the attacks, he had no answer.

I know what you're trying to do, Rothschild. Your trying to say that the crazies (BUSH & Co.) will win with the "divide and conquor" method. But don't expect the rest of us to swallow the government BS. I don't believe what the "experts" have to say because I know that "experts" can be created, bought, or threatened.

» Crazy Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: Crazy Posted by: WILDSTARCHILD
CAPITAL ONE BANK GIVES ALTERNET MONEY???
Posted by: terradea on Sep 18, 2006 4:34 AM   
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That explains this article. Bye bye, Alternet. I only subscribe to blogs without corporate ties. Alternet...bought and sold.

» Typical conspiracy-mongering Posted by: brunowe
9/11 WAS an inside job
Posted by: moontime on Sep 18, 2006 4:38 AM   
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9/11 WAS an inside job, and hearing that it wasn't from somebody from the Rothschild family doesn't exactly change my mind.

» RE: 9/11 WAS an inside job Posted by: seltzer
» RE: 9/11 WAS an inside job Posted by: harris
» RE: 9/11 WAS an inside job Posted by: Prophit
» RE: 9/11 WAS an inside job Posted by: monsieurbill
» RE: 9/11 WAS an inside job Posted by: Corps_8_my_baby
» RE: 9/11 WAS an inside job Posted by: brunowe
Unanswered questions spawn conspiracy theories
Posted by: Democritus on Sep 18, 2006 4:52 AM   
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Whenever there are unanswered questions, a conspiracy theory is not far behind. When JFK was shot, the Warren Commission's report didn't explain everything--for instance why Kennedy's head snapped back if he had been shot from the rear. That prompted the "two gunmen" theory and the claim that Lyndon Johnson engineered the murder to cover up missing funds, or that the Cuban communists did it as revenge for the Bay of Pigs invasion. Unanswered questions concerning why the World Trade Towers fell as they did prompt similar theories about how our devious government wanted an excuse to invade the Middle East. But the test for believing any conspiracy theory is simple: weigh the evidence in favor of the theory's being true against the evidence that falsifies it. In the the attack on the Trade Towers, there is so much falsifying evidence--especially concerning the unlikelihood that such a hugh conspiracy could be kept secret--that it overwhelms any evidence in favor of the theory. What all conspiracy theorists forget is that the proper way to test any hypothesis is to look for the falsifying evidence. Simply looking for bits of positive evidence to support a view one already has is just a way to reinforce one's prejudices. There is ample evidence that the attack on the Trade Towers could have been avoided, had the FBI, CIA, and the NSA shared the information they had on the perpetrators. This is clearly outlined in Lawrence Wright's book, The Looming Tower. It is enough of an indictment of our present administration that through incompetence, bureaucratic bungling, and "ass covering," the various arms of our government did not act to protect us. The secrecy of the White House in resisting a full and open debate on the events leading up to 9/11 is more likely the result, not of its being an "inside job," but of its being the consequence of bone-headed ignorance and incompetence in the highest reaches of our government.

Finally, flight 93...
Posted by: leftylawyer on Sep 18, 2006 5:00 AM   
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"But we know from cell phone conversations that passengers on board that plane planned on confronting the hijackers. "

I do not believe for 1 second that cell phones would work as alleged on flight 93.

» RE: Finally, flight 93... Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: Finally, flight 93... Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Finally, flight 93... Posted by: WILDSTARCHILD
» RE: Finally, flight 93... Posted by: brunowe
» RE: Finally, flight 93... Posted by: Conservasaurus
More BS!
Posted by: WhatNow? on Sep 18, 2006 5:13 AM   
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I read about half the article. I could not read anymore of this garbage.

The south tower was damaged more than the north tower? From the footage you have to wonder whether the south tower's core was even touched and most of the fuel was ejected outside of the building.

From all the cooked up evidence for the Iraq war, you do not believe the bush administration did ignore all evidence 9/11 might happen?

"Here's what the conspiracists believe:"

Is that section of this story anymore suspect than the government's explanation?

"we're supposed to believe that this incompetent Administration, which brought you Katrina, was somehow able to execute this grand conspiracy?"

Katrina's greatest devastation was caused by neglect and a lack of funds for the levees. 9/11 succeeded because of what? government neglect?

I believe the bush administration knew it was going to happen via intelligence they had. Being the greedy and cold hearted opportunists they are, I think they let it happen. 9/11 was the day the 2000 coup turned bloody. It served their interests immensely.

Were there explosives planted in the building? Hell if I know. Controlled demolition is as much plausible as the pancake theory. The collapses do seem awful neat and tidy.

Here is an article that expresses what I have felt for five years.
Two Axioms of 9/11
Mr. Manuel Valenzuela is an excellent writer. This article would make an excellent speech.

As for rothschild, I do not believe I will waste any time reading any thing he writes again.

BEEN THERE, DONE THAT Pt I
Posted by: LMNOP on Sep 18, 2006 5:20 AM   
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We've seen this same article more or less last June here on Alternet when it was entitled 9/11: Wild Conspiracies and Rational Concerns

The readers responses are worth reviewing as they are similar to these. And, as with this article, the readers seem more informed and compelling than the author's.

Also, I find dainin's anaylsis a few posts above this one more compelling that the author's. And anybody who uses the level of condendescention that this author does with regard to the allegations because they imply a conspiracy - beginning with the title. "Enough of the 9/11 Conspiracy Theories, Already",

I don’t trust anyone who uses the term conspiracy theory to discredit a hypothesis and its source.

These were my posts then. Nothing has changed:

----

What's all the fuss about? You know all that you need to know alraedy.

So what whether Bush et al. were actually behind 9-11? What matters is that we know for an iron clad fact (all argument s of "you don't know what blah blah blah" aside - yes, I do know!) that they would have if they had thought of it and that they thought that they could pull it off.

Furthermore, who that hasn't drunk the Kool-Aid would doubt for a nanosecond that these sociopaths wouldn't do it in the future? That's all that matters. You want people that consider such tactics abhorrent and immoral, not just merely too hard for them.

I never need to know for certain just how complicit these villains were. I know how depraved they are, and that says everything that I or you need to know. Is there anybody who doubts that knowing how it turned out that the Bush-babies would have lifted a finger to prevent it?

Do you think that if they had the opportunity to push it along that they would not because it was immoral? Or that if Wolfowitz or some other neocom golem came to Cheney and Rumsfield with blueprints for a 9-11 all worked out in detail that they would bristle at the thought or report such people to the authorities?

[Conspiracies happen everywhere and all of the time. Any idea arrived at by two or more people speaking privately is a conspiracy. In the benign sense, a surprise birthday party is a conspiracy.]

Conspiracy theory? Who would make the suggestion that conservatives would meet behind closed doors and make secret plans? That's what a conspiracy is. Does that kind of thing ever happen, or do you suppose that the party of transparency has all of its meetings in public forums?

What kind of imbecile would doubt that there are 500 conspiracies being considered or implemented [in America] TODAY [or that most of them come from people who call themselves Republicans]? Don't be ashamed or afraid of a conspiracy hypothesis. Be ashamed if you don't consider it a possibility. Embarrassing you for even suggesting it is a powerful proactive technique.

--------and--------

So, the author implies that because he cannot PROVE from a distance that the administration was complicit in 911, that to think otherwise is "rank conspiracy theory, unsupported by any serious evidence". What constitutes serious evidence. The posters above have made compelling cases that bear further investigation by somebody with the power of subpoena and the will and ability to evaluate this matter, something which anybody familiar with this administration knows hasn't been done yet. Isn't that more evidence of complicity?

Couldn't I say the same thing about global warming? It's unproved, so it's rank speculation. Isn't that the right's usual comment?

(CONT.)

» RE: BEEN THERE, DONE THAT Pt I Posted by: DoctorAndy
Maybe we do "need" to "make it up"
Posted by: tkwilson on Sep 18, 2006 5:19 AM   
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We are deeply involved not only in a real literal ground war here, but also an information and psychological war, at home and world wide.
Just as the neo-con political operatives who "progressives" see themselves in opposition too, clearly twist, distort and withold the facts (or is that a conspiracy too, Mr. Rothschild?), maybe the rest of us have a need to wage an information war of our own.
At times it would seem it's the only thing we can actually do, lacking other means of force.

So, if we find ourselves needing to cultivate an atmosphere of distrust and anger at the government by employing questions about 9/11, what's it too ya, Mr. Rothschild?

Actually, the neo liberal left/ progressives have missed the boat quite often up til 9/11 and the oil war.
They let Waco, Ruby Ridge and OK City go by with nary a peep since they didn't like the politics of the alleged bad guys involved (personally, any Attorney General responsible for BBQ'ing 84 men, women and children is a bad guy in my book; as is a sniper who blows a nursing mothers face off).

What I do know is that both the Twin Towers and the Murrah building were crime scenes and I think the manner in which they were investigated is open to question.
How an investigation is conducted (or not) will tell you loads about the motivations of the investigators. You don't need a conspiracy to let "what you're looking for" blind you to "what is".
The official, enforced, line on most of the governments actions is still a crock of disingenous shit. That's the issue , Mr. Rothschild.
We may not know exactly what we're being lied to about; but we know we're being lied to, and we're sick of it.

» Not too far out Posted by: fifthworld
Two Axioms of 9/11
Posted by: WhatNow? on Sep 18, 2006 5:22 AM   
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Two Axioms of 9/11

My apologies. I made a mistake on the link I previously posted.

9/11 just a toxic mix of incompetence and bad foreign policy
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