Nice to see someone who thinks the same way I do, and I _went_ to a private school! (even if it was a fairly affordable and not a particularly well resourced school).

My aim is that if I ever have children, I will send them to a public school but save money as if I were sending them to a private school so my family can afford to go overseas for holidays so my kids (and I!) can learn more about the world and ourselves.

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This 76 yr old started (no kindergarten) in a 1 room all elementary grades country school in the great depression with no minorities. I salute your spunk and determination to give your kids a great school experience. My experience was heavily laced with numerous prejudices. Some progress has been made but there are still great problems in our education system. With active and aware people like you progress can still be made.

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They were a diverse bunch, and there was something great about going to meets and seeing them all together -- boys and girls, white, African-American, Asian and Latino -- cheering for each other, fooling around, and generally getting along

That's what I'd want for any kid.

My siblings when to private school, while I went through public school. I went to school in the ghetto, but I can honestly say I got a better more-rounded, more open-minded education free of a creepy religious agenda. Maybe there were a few more fights at my school, but now that I look back I realize how "liberal" my education was, and I wouldn't trade that for anything.

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My daughter is entering Kindergarten this year too. And, we're sending her public, and plan to be involved in the district (I've already started volunteering on certain district committees).

I'll admit that we were on that public vs private schooling fence, and it was close. The attraction of some private schools was smaller class size, foreign language and parental involvement.

In the end, we decided it was about being part of the community, and about her peers, and fortunately, we know a number of the kids in her class, and felt comfortable that she would have a positive experience, despite the limitations of the public system.

Still trying to figure out how to introduce foreign language to the early grades, instead of first being offered in grade 8.

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I have a relative who works for the public fool system, so I know how bad it really is. Your kid is going to come out innumerate and illiterate, but with loads of self esteem. God forbid we should hurt the little dears' self esteem by demanding that they actually learn the three Rs.

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Kindergarten is not going to make or break anyone's education. We can only hope, for the sake of Conniff's kids, that her feverish miasma of wishful thinking dies down enough to let in some of the local facts, whatever they are. She should look long and hard at the first grade teachers -- and beyond -- before she submits her kid to their hardened mercies.

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unless you are in a suburban school, be ready to homeschool or private school in middle school. elementary isn't so bad in the inner city, it is the older brainwashed ignorant (by choice and culture) ones who are...

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It seems like only yesterday; and this year my youngest is looking for colleges. I enjoyed this thoughtful, well articulated piece. It captures the thoguhts, concerns, hopes, aspirations, and ideals of so many young parents. My kids went to public schools, found their niche, and received great educations. While they have chosen to attend private colleges, one of their selection criteria was campus diversity. Given the state of the world, one of the goals of contemporary education should be learning tolerance and respect; what good is knowledge if we can't get along with other people?

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The public school system isn't bad (as some of the comments might suggest), its simply adequate. However, to the writer the quality of the education doesn't seem to matter either way. Instead she treats her daughter's first day as some sort of a social statement (experiment?). Good for her. Her privileged white child will go to school with poor blacks, and Hispanics. In the end though, her daughter will have a order of magnitude greater chance of finishing high school and going to university than the poorer kids she mingled with in Grade 1. Its a start I suppose.

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For every parent who decides as you did our public schools become more viable. I took my daughter out of public school in junior high, because I (not she) couldn't tolerate the chaos in the hallways, the raucous language, the physicality of all those hormones untempered by a genteel authority. She has never forgiven me, because as a middle class kid, she always felt "poor," detested the elitism and emphasis on designer clothes, and the loss of status she suffered at being a new kid whose parents were neither rich or famous. As the divide between rich and poor has grown wider and wider, we in the middle must work to re-establish public education as vital and substantive. The rich could care less, and the poor are usually preoccupied with trying to survive. Vouchers, charter schools, "choice" are distractions. No child left behind? Give me a break!

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I wish you and your family luck. After completing elementary in a public charter school - we are off to a very modest secular private school with high academic standards. The charter school, while providing smaller class sizes, was not able to remove itself from the necessity to teach either to the middle or at times to the least common denominator - not enough time, discipline, resources, or prepared children to do things differently. Our child, very bright, began to fall behind (not his class - but national standards) due to a growing lack of interest and boredom. Our local public schools - are similar. They are so vested in test results that they love to have the bright children because these children will do well with little instruction - thus leaving the teachers time to work with those who need it the most.
After these years, we determined that we could no longer sacrifice our child to the experiment of the charter school, nor return to the mediocre public school. It is very sad and not in necessarily in line with our values - but what parent is willing to sacrifice their child's education to make a statement supporting inferior public education? I find I am not that parent.

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I think the decision should be based on the quality of the education and the safety of your child. Where we live the quality of public schools is spotty. Some public schools are as good or better than private schools; however, it is very difficult to get your child into one of the better schools. Sometimes you have to know the principal. The public school in my daughter's district is underachieving;therefore, we are shelling out the money to send her to a private school. Again, I think a parent's number one concern should be getting his or her child the best possible education. Many of our public schools fall short of the mark. In addition to private school our daughter in in Kumon math and reading. This is an excellent supplemental program. In math the goal is to have children doing algebra by 5th grade. In the final analysis, for those of us who are not rich, a quality education is the best thing that we can give our children.

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I am a parent (In Canada) whose daughter has attended both public and private school. Grade K through 3 in public, 4 through 6 in private, now back to public.

It's heartbreaking at times in both types of institution. Bullying and bad teachers are everywhere. Favoritism and elitism rear their ugly heads at public and at private schools. Bad grades and good grades are simlarly hard to pin down.. is it an institutional issue or is your child struggling? You will find it difficult to tell no matter where you are in some cases.

The loss of 'childishness' in your child will tear you apart in grade one, and the sudden disinterest in happy-go-lucky fun will rip your heart out in grade 6.

Schools are very individual, and you have to work with them, keep your eye on them, and stay somewhat involved no matter what if you want the best for your kid.

:) good luck.

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Private, parochial or public. It doesn’t matter. What’s important is that kid’s have a home where adults, preferably parents, are interested in what they did at school each and every day.

You can teach kids by candlelight in a cave and they’ll soak it up, as long as there’s someone at home truly excited to hear what they're learning.

Poe

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Public schools exist to turn out a product. Like factory farming, factory schooling churns out a reasonable facsimile of the real thing. The Public school system in America was designed and instigated by rich progressives who wanted to make sure that workers "fit for the economy" were created as well as to create a uniform citizenry. Check out the Underground History of American Education by John Gatto. (Please don't check out the discussion forum on his website as it's been hijacked by paleolibertarian Jesus freaks). Or for a short and concise essay do a search for Gatto's The Seven Lesson School teacher.

I homeschool my son and would never subject him to the factory like aspects of compulsory government education.. The status quo support for welfare schooling among progressives is scary. Why is compulsory government education(call it what it is instead of the quaint "public school) so important? I'm in agreement with much of the progressive agenda but goverment schools are a joke.

Public school is child abuse.

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News story after news story on this site points out how the US government has been acting against its people, harrassing them, using them, extorting them. It spies, it humiliates, it steals, kills and destroys.

And it runs the schools. Do you honestly think a government-run school is going to tell the truth about the government?

I went to a private school and still was taught the ridiculous fiction the textbooks call American History.

History educationists are fond of the "those who don't study history are doomed to repeat it" mantra, but the version of history taught in schools today is not useful for avoiding the mistakes of past generations. Because of this, we sit ripe for totalitarian takeover, with only ourselves to blame.

And you still trust the government to not abuse the power it has through government schools. I would call that insanity.

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If parents can find a school that prepares their youngsters with rigorous academics, reflects their values, and is reasonably safe in the public sector, then great. The idea, however, that parents who opt to send their kids to private school are somehow not supporting their "community school" is complete and total bupkus. Everyone foots the bill for Big Education; parents that send their kids to private schools have simply chosen to pay for that education twice--once for their kids, and again for the child of someone else. Progressives are mostly pro-choice, right?

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Private schools are not all equal to each other and neither are public. They come in all different sizes and economic makeup, and what your child requires in elementary school is different from middle school which is different from high school--you cannot boil this down to just public vs. private.

I have four children, ages 7-16. We live in a rural/suburban area where the schools are okay, except for the rotting buildings, but the money is not there to support them. My kids all began in one Montessori school, then we switched to a better Montessori one. Private schools do not all have the same quality teachers or programs, just because the philosophy might be the same. Private is not better just because you pay for it.

One of my children does not function in Montessori but does very well in a traditionally-structured setting. He is now in a private school only because the public school building is mold-ridden (he went there for a year and loved it).

I have never had a problem with the "elite" types as many people, myself included, are on financial aid. Many are not. No one really cares. At least I don't and my children don't care either. I would not let any preconceived notions about that stopping you from looking at private.

My oldest is in our public high school and is thriving. He is an independent, self-motivated student with no special needs. I think the level of education is mediocre but the lifestyle and community involvement is terrific for him. One does not need to be in the public schools from day one to attain that. I have always kept my kids involved in town sports, scouts etc. That said, I won't put my next children in the high school here because they are not as motivated as my oldest, and I know this school does not have the resources to deal with certain, minor learning issues of theirs.

The drawbacks in general with public schools are that the administration is not accountable to the parents (many times neither are private, but they do want to keep their "customers"), larger high schools can be a nightmare with social problems not able to be dealt with and the adminstration not knowing your children well enough, and there are unfortunately some groups of kids in public schools that you don't want your kids to be around that you won't find in a private school (although they do have quite a few individuals who seem to get away with anything in private schools).

If I had to do it over, I would have chosen a small town to live in where the public schools had an excellent reputation, and taken my chances. I think you're on the right track to want the public schools to work, and think that you can make any problems go away merely by being involved. The money for private is certainly a huge consideration, too.

However, be prepared to abandon your commitment to public schools for your commitment to your child should it not work out. Same thing for private--don't put all your hopes into that being perfect either. This is why many people homeschool. Everything has a potential drawback so just be flexible.

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1) The adjustive or adaptive function. Schools are to establish fixed habits of reaction to authority. This, of course, precludes critical judgment completely. It also pretty much destroys the idea that useful or interesting material should be taught, because you can't test for reflexive obedience until you know whether you can make kids learn, and do, foolish and boring things.

2) The integrating function. This might well be called "the conformity function," because its intention is to make children as alike as possible. People who conform are predictable, and this is of great use to those who wish to harness and manipulate a large labor force.

3) The diagnostic and directive function. School is meant to determine each student's proper social role. This is done by logging evidence mathematically and anecdotally on cumulative records. As in "your permanent record." Yes, you do have one.

4) The differentiating function. Once their social role has been "diagnosed," children are to be sorted by role and trained only so far as their destination in the social machine merits - and not one step further. So much for making kids their personal best.

5) The selective function. This refers not to human choice at all but to Darwin's theory of natural selection as applied to what he called "the favored races." In short, the idea is to help things along by consciously attempting to improve the breeding stock. Schools are meant to tag the unfit - with poor grades, remedial placement, and other punishments - clearly enough that their peers will accept them as inferior and effectively bar them from the reproductive sweepstakes. That's what all those little humiliations from first grade onward were intended to do: wash the dirt down the drain.

6) The propaedeutic function. The societal system implied by these rules will require an elite group of caretakers. To that end, a small fraction of the kids will quietly be taught how to manage this continuing project, how to watch over and control a population deliberately dumbed down and declawed in order that government might proceed unchallenged and corporations might never want for obedient labor.

Try UNSCHOOLING or http://alternet.org/story/24548/

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After reading many of these comments - the discussion reminds me a bit like the debate over stay-at-home moms - or working moms. It is common for us to seek validation of our own choices by looking at the choices of others.
There is no one RIGHT answer for everyone. We all have our own situations and circumstances and hopefully we will find ways to respect others' choices - even when they are different than ours.

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I grew up thinking that all private school kids were a bunch of snooty snobs. I couldn't imagine ever wanting to go to one. However, we recently moved to a new house in a more urban school district. From day one, my 13 year old son hated it. Probably because he was a new kid who started midterm, he was immediately ostracized. About every day, he was challenged to a fight. He would complain about how the teachers would spend half of the class time trying to manage unruly kids. Many teachers would just ignore problem behavior until it escalated so much they had to respond.
After about 2 months at his new school, he was attacked by four other kids while boarding the bus. It seems earlier that day he was being picked on and my son defended himself. The kid who he had problems with earlier that day rounded up some of his friends and they circled my son and beat him until finally my son was able to break away and get on his bus. The school police officer, by the way, was busy breaking up another fight at the other end of the parking lot.
When we went to talk to the school administration, they kind of had a "these things happen" attitude. They mentioned the fact that our son should be less "confrontational". I guess that's what they call defending yourself these days in public school.
We quickly pulled him out and got him into private school and it has made all of the difference. His grades and attitude have both improved. He was welcomed immediately at his new school and has made many friends. He went from class sizes of 30 to 35 kids to class sizes of 10 to 15 kids. Best of all, his teachers really seem to give a damn about the kids and their progress.
Ms. Coniff mentioned "the obsession with money and designer labels" that she assumes happens at all private schools. At my son's school, they wear uniforms. No child is made to feel bad because he can't afford fancy jeans or $200.00 Nikes. At his old public school, however, it was all about bling and designer labels. Believe me, it was alot cheaper buying the uniforms.
Is there less diversity? Racially, not by much. My son, however, no longer has to attend classes with the children of crackheads, drug dealers, convicted felons and parents that just don't give a damn about their kids. At his old school, less than 15% of graduates went on to get a bachelor's degree. At his new school, over 90% of graduates obtain one.
He is also learning important life lessons. Children who are habitual behavior problems at his private school are told they are no longer welcome. Like real life, he is seeing that there are consequences for this kind of behavior. At his old public school, they had to provide for these children at the expense of the other kids.
My wife and I are not rich. We started a weekend office cleaning business to pay for his schooling. My son comes along and helps us clean the offices. He told us he doesn't mind helping pay for his education. His exact words were, "I'd do anything to keep from being sent back to that dump."

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in his Communist Manifesto, guidebook and plan to SOCIALIZE the world, the 10 Planks were the blueprint to be applied to SOCIALIZE a nation.

1st Plank - Abolition of Private Property(do you really OWN anything land/house/car/business?
2nd Plank - an INCOME TAX... how on earth did the United States become the wealthiest and most productive country on earth before 1913 and the Income Tax installation on our republic?
5th Plank - a Central Bank......the Federal Reserve...a PRIVATE bank with LEGAL MONOPOLY.
6th Plank - Government CONTROL of Transportation and Communication.....FCC and Dept of Transportation

and the 10th Plank
Free public education for all.

GOVERNMENT CONTROL OF EDUCATION...seizing the kids through compulsory attendence laws, forcing ALL OF US TO PAY FOR OTHERS EDUCATION, and FORCING A SOCIALIST AND HUMANISTIC AGENDA with a specific intent...to create a mass of controlled and obedient and entertained ILLITERATE serfs unable to refer to the past and realize the present and warn about the future.....6 generations in America have been dumbed down by the State and its John Dewey heirs at the NEA to JUST THAT.....

and conservatives want to make GOVERNMENT education "better"??????????

the new cry for all..

SEPARATION OF SCHOOL AND STATE
PS so WHO won the Cold War?
or whose IDEAS won the Cold War?

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The problem I have with the public school system is the imbalance in the amount of money that goes for sports programs vs. education. Start by taking about 50% of the budget they spend each year on sports programs and use it for what it's intended for, and that is to educate our children. When my son graduated from highschool, they handed out very few academic scholarships, but man they were handing out sports scholarships like candy. That way they could pay teachers decent wages. One other example, one of my nieces just graduated with a BA in Social Work. She decided that she wanted to work in the school district where her children are attending. They offered her a starting pay of $20,000 a yr. That's absolutely incredible. I don't know forsure how much a highschool football coach makes, but I dare say 10 to 20 fold that amount. In my opinion that is the primary reason our public school systems are in the shape they're in.

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I (and my five siblings) all went to public school. We all also went to university, learned foreign languages, and most went on to graduate programs. A public school education doesn't guarantee that a child won't have the same academic chances that those with private educations have. I think, though, that ensuring academic progress takes some extra work on the part of both the parents and the student. My dad had his masters in education and all of us knew how to read before we went to kindergarten. He wasn't demanding about grades, but he did insist upon intelligence.

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My wife and I are the parents of eight children who attended public schools in an integrated communty we chose because of its excellent school system. As parents of children of color we felt it was very important for their identity development to have positive experiences in their school and community. It was exhausting for my wife and me as we participated in the many school open houses, parent teacher associations, sporting events, curriculum planning committees, etc. at all levels until our last child graduated from high school. As I look back it was particularly invigorating experience because the families involved reflected the entire community. We met wonderful parents; we worked together and sometimes discussed issues pointedly with each other. We learned from each other and found that we could compromise in order to come to a decision. We loved it and as it turns out so did our children. Now that they are adults making decisions for their own children they often remark on how pleased they were with their own educational experience. I don't think that a private school, even if we could have afforded it, would have given them the experience and tools to deal with the global, multicultural world which they and their children face. So my advice to Ruth as her child starts her school year is that you are about to venture on a journey which will enrich not only your child's life but your own.

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NY Times
July 15, 2006

Public Schools Perform Near Private Ones in Study

By DIANA JEAN SCHEMO
WASHINGTON, July 14 — The Education Department reported on Friday that children in public schools generally performed as well or better in reading and mathematics than comparable children in private schools. The exception was in eighth-grade reading, where the private school counterparts fared better.

The report, which compared fourth- and eighth-grade reading and math scores in 2003 from nearly 7,000 public schools and more than 530 private schools, also found that conservative Christian schools lagged significantly behind public schools on eighth-grade math.

The study, carrying the imprimatur of the National Center for
Education Statistics, part of the Education Department, was
contracted to the Educational Testing Service and delivered to the department last year.

It went through a lengthy peer review and includes an extended section of caveats about its limitations and calling such a comparison of public and private schools “of modest utility.”

Its release, on a summer Friday, was made with without a news conference or comment from Education Secretary Margaret Spellings.

Reg Weaver, president of the National Education Association, the union for millions of teachers, said the findings showed that public schools were “doing an outstanding job” and that if the results had been favorable to private schools, “there would have been press conferences and glowing statements about private schools.”

“The administration has been giving public schools a beating since the beginning” to advance his political agenda, Mr. Weaver said, of promoting charter schools and taxpayer-financed vouchers for private schools as alternatives to failing traditional public schools.

A spokesman for the Education Department, Chad Colby, offered no praise for public schools and said he did not expect the findings to influence policy. Mr. Colby emphasized the caveat, “An overall comparison of the two types of schools is of modest utility.”

“We’re not just for public schools or private schools,’’ he said. “We’re for good schools.”

The report mirrors and expands on similar findings this year by Christopher and Sarah Theule Lubienski, a husband-and-wife team at the University of Illinois who examined just math scores. The new study looked at reading scores, too.

The study, along with one of charter schools, was commissioned by the former head of the national Center for Education Statistics, Robert Lerner, an appointee of President Bush, at a time preliminary data suggested that charter schools, which are given public money but are run by private groups, fared no better at educating children than traditional public schools.

Proponents of charter schools had said the data did not take into account the predominance of children in their schools who had already had problems in neighborhood schools.

The two new studies put test scores in context by studying the children’s backgrounds and taking into account factors like race, ethnicity, income and parents’ educational backgrounds to make the comparisons more meaningful. The extended study of charter schools has not been released.

Findings favorable to private schools would likely have given a lift to administration efforts to offer children in ailing public schools the option of attending private schools.

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An Education Department official who insisted on anonymity because of the climate surrounding the report, said researchers were "extra cautious" in reviewing it and were aware of its “political sensitivity.”

The official said the warning against drawing unsupported conclusions was expanded somewhat as the report went through in the review.

The report cautions, for example, against concluding that children do better because of the type of school as opposed to unknown factors. It also warns of great variations of performance among private schools, making a blanket comparison of public and private schools “of modest utility.” And the scores on which its findings are based reflect only a snapshot of student performance at a point in time and say nothing about individual student progress in different settings.

Arnold Goldstein of the National Center for Education Statistics said that the review was meticulous, but that it was not unusual for the center.

Mr. Goldstein said there was no political pressure to alter the
findings.

Students in private schools typically score higher than those in public schools, a finding confirmed in the study. The report then dug deeper to compare students of like racial, economic and social backgrounds. When it did that, the private school advantage disappeared in all areas except eighth-grade reading.

The report separated private schools by type and found that among private school students, those in Lutheran schools performed best, while those in conservative Christian schools did worst.

In eighth-grade reading, children in conservative Christian schools scored no better than comparable children in public schools.

In eighth-grade math, children in Lutheran schools scored
significantly better than children in public schools, but those in conservative Christian schools fared worse.

Joseph McTighe, executive director of the Council for American Private Education, an umbrella organization that represents 80 percent of private elementary and secondary schools, said the statistical analysis had little to do with parents’ choices on educating their children.

"In the real world, private school kids outperform public school kids," Mr. McTighe said. "That’s the real world, and the way things actually are."

Two weeks ago, the American Federation of Teachers, on its Web log, predicted that the report would be released on a Friday, suggesting that the Bush administration saw it as "bad news to be buried at the bottom of the news cycle."

The deputy director for administration and policy at the Institute of Education Sciences, Sue Betka, said the report was not released so it would go unnoticed. Ms. Betka said her office typically gave senior officials two weeks’ notice before releasing reports. "The report was ready two weeks ago Friday,’’ she said, “and so today was the first day, according to longstanding practice, that it could come out."

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I think parents know best:

Summary of The 38th Annual Phi Delta Kappa/Gallup Poll of the Public's Attitudes Toward the Public Schools:
(see at: http://www.pdkintl.org/kappan/kpollpdf.htm)

* Very few Americans consider public schools to be failing. Only 14 percent of the public gave their community schools a grade of "D" or "F" and only 9 percent gave those grades to "the school your oldest child attends."

* The two "biggest problems the public schools of your community must deal with" are "Lack of financial support/funding/money" (24 percent) and "overcrowded schools" (13 percent).

* 70 percent agreed that the problems currently facing public schools in their community were "the effect of societal problems" rather than "the performance of the local schools."

* 77 percent agreed that the "achievement gap between white students and black and Hispanic students" is "mostly related to other factors" than to "the quality of schooling received."

* 78 percent of those asked to "assume" their child attended a failing school said they would rather "have additional efforts made in your child's present school" than transfer their children from that failing school.

* 73 percent of the public favors a requirement for students to take four years of mathematics in high school, including two years of algebra beginning as early as the eighth grade.

* 63 percent of parents with students in school thought that high schools should "offer students a wide variety of courses" rather than "concentrate on fewer basic courses such as English, mathematics history, and science."

* Only 12 percent of those familiar with NCLB had a "very
favorable" opinion of the act compared to nearly double (23 percent) who had a "very unfavorable" opinion.

* 68 percent of those polled who were familiar with NCLB felt it was either hurting or not helping their community schools.

* 82 percent of those familiar with NCLB said they were worried "A great deal" or "A fair amount" that emphasizing English and Math would "mean less emphasis on art, music, history, and other subjects."

* 72 percent of those familiar with NCLB opposed using "a single test" in "determining whether a public school is or is not in need of improvement."

* 80 percent favored measuring "a school's performance" by looking at "the improvement students in the school make during the year" instead of "the percentage of students passing the test."

* 79 percent opposed making Special Education students "meet thesame academic standards as all other students."

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I applaud people who can afford private school but opt for public school. They will monitor the school's performance and will fight against tax cuts that will jeopardize good performance. It is easier to choose private school and abandon the public schools to the mercy of tax-cutting politicians.
Bob Reichenbach
Director, The Lincoln Initiative.

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The founders of our country were not publicly educated. The men and women meant for the assembly lines and military were.

If you want your children to be critical thinkers, not "well educated," choose anything but public school. It is a socialist organization, a fat industry propped up by taxpayers and unaccountable for results. Do your research on this controversy. The history and focus of public schools in America is based on a Prussian model used to create obedient soldiers. If you insist on using public schools, at least start advocating for school vouchers to make them accountable.

I’m a successful product of public school—a National Merit Finalist, graduated summa cum laude, and I will be homeschooling so that my kids will not have to spend years as I did (and you, too, I bet) overcoming the propaganda, social distortion, and mediocrity.

The Public School Nightmare: Why fix a system designed to destroy individual thought? by John Taylor Gatto [Two time New York State “Teacher of the Year”]
I want you to consider the frightening possibility that we are spending far too much money on schooling, not too little. I want you to consider that we have too many people employed in interfering with the way children grow up -- and that all this money and all these people, all the time we take out of children’s lives and away from their homes and families and neighborhoods and private explorations -- gets in the way of education. … And yet last year in St. Louis, I heard a vice-president of IBM tell an audience of people assembled to redesign the process of teacher certification that in his opinion this country became computer-literate by self-teaching, not through any action of schools. (read more at http://www.halexandria.org/dward036.htm

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I don't have a problem with private schools until they become funded by government, i.e. my tax dollars, via vouchers. First of all, we need more unity and less segregation by class or religion. Second, I think this approach is as short-sighted as a program would be for vouchers to travel by limousine, instead of investing in a sane energy program and promoting public transportation.
I received an excellent education in public schools, but my Indian classmate, the son of migrant workers, did not. This was not the fault of the curriculum, but the fault of close-minded teachers. Had the community addressed the issue, it could have been corrected. Had all the offended children been withdrawn, the school system would have learned nothing.
I checked back, and my old grammar school happily provides a good education to ALL its children.

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i agree that community support for public schools is imperative for the continuation of free education, HOWever, if the public school you send your kid to has metal detectors and requires clear/see through backpacks then i reccomend the other option. a couple years ago i was a mentor/slash tutor at a jr. high school in south east washington, D.C. and there's no way i would ever send my children to that school. In fact, if there were no viable private school options in that area i would probably move to another town.

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Without a doubt, there are some who have posted on here, because they have an interest in making money from private schools. Millions are being spent hiring lobbyists to make a case for private schools. Lobbyists aren't only those who go to capitol hill with money in hand. Lobbyists are those who are hired to influence people on blogs and at places like the Kiwanas Club.

The Bushite/profitmakers have focused on public schools for years and will do everything they can to hand them to their wealthy friends.

Our public school children were doing so good on the tests, they changed them last year and it was hard to even understand the grade they received. The teachers assured us our children are doing just as well...the grades are what has changed.

The Bushites destroy programs by stealth and by sneakiness. They "fixed" Medicare which had a large surplus in part A or D. Now it is teetering on bankruptcy. The same with Social Security, they are passing out checks like they are candy from Social Security. We all contribute extra to Social Security , so the boomers won't be a burden. The Bushites are spending that surplus as fast as we put it in and all the while saying the bonds that back that money they owe us are worthless. You get the picture.

They want to make money off of everything, but they don't want to pay the wages it takes to buy the privatized products. The Bushites do not want a government except for space programs, some research and for the Military. They love the free research that is given to the drug companies and they love the money we pay for space research and travel, then they profit off of what is created from it. Like satellite TV. They also want to have businesses for Space Travel down the road, while we pay for the costs until it becomes safe. They hate taxes and love profits.

The "no tax" crowd are short sighted. I don't mind paying taxes for public schools. My parents went for 8 years. I went for 12 years, my children went for 13 years and my grandchildren will go for 13 years. After I die my descendents will go and someone will pay taxes for them to go to public school. It is a way of pooling a little money yearly so we all get a good education. When we educate all the children, we make the country a better safer place.

$20,000 is the starting pay in our area for teachers. They gradually make $50,000 the last account I had.

There are about 5% of the students that will be very bright and 5% that are almost not teachable and the rest are somewhere in between. Some children cannot retain what they learn.

I did have one problem at public schools. I had a high school daughter that was bullied by one girl. I called the school and it didn't stop. They said they would have to see it happen and the girl knew better than to do it in front of them. I called the parents and it got worse. My sister's daughter, who is tall and athletic got wind of it and went to where the girl worked. She made it clear that if she bothered my daughter again, she would have to deal with her. That stopped it. Had I to do it over, I would have insisted that they listen to witnesses. They have a bully policy in all schools, now, since the bullied started shooting.

We should fight for our public schools. Before we had public schools, only the well to do received much of an education. Now, vouchers are paying for private schools, but after awhile, the taxes will be cut when more and more go to private schools. That is what the goal is, less taxes and more profits.

I have heard they are putting in private schools in the Katrina area and not rebuilding public school. We the taxpayers are paying for them to go with "vouchers". I don't know what is happening to those who don't have a school.

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Right you are. I don't teach. At least not children. My regular job does require me to give a lecture to co-workers once in a while. I was just trying to be facetious. My mother, however, recently retired after 30+ years as an elementary school teacher. When my niece expressed an interest in studying education at college, my mother told her so many horror stories about being a teacher in this day and age that she is now pursuing a nursing degree.

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I have taught in the public schools. They are a mess.

1. Children must learn to read. Unless there is some medical problem...all children must learn to read well. They need to read aloud-each day-every day. And they must learn to LOVE reading. That happens by being exposed to teachers who LOVE books. Very rare these days...sorry to say. Many poor children have never owned a book. Some rich kids too!

2. No sports. This is not the purpose of schools.
What a waste of time and money.

3. Music and Art and Creative Writing and Drama are IMPORTANT. This is the main talent and passion of many people. We are not all scientists and technicians or sports stars. Get rid of the sports and supply the schools with art supplies and musical tools.

4. Tests and Grades mean NOTHING. Especially for children. Get rid of them.

5. School uniforms...jeans and tee shirts. The rattier the better. Nothing else.

6. Simple healthy foods in the lunchroom only. Peanut Butter sandwhiches and salads and juice. That is all.
And the government pays for it all...no poor kids feeling bad about free lunches.

And serve a simple breakfast too...fruit and muffins and juice.
Poor kids often go without breakfast. That alone would make a huge difference. Note to the unpoor-Being hungry makes you cranky.

7. If the kid acts up...they get sent to the school social worker. As it is now...the teacher is told to ignore bad behavior. Children acting 'bad' is often a cry for help.

8. My children went to a private pre-school, with horse back riding, a swimming pool with lessons, computers....every day.

Public schools should have some of these things...class pets, swimming lessons at the local public pool, at least ONE computer in each classroom.
This is not much to ask of THE RICHEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD.

9. Movies. There are many excellent movies for children.
Poor kids don't get to see many. And 'Christian Parents' should not be allowed to pick these movies either.
Their kids can go to the school library if they don't want to watch them...(which should hardly be considered a punishment).

10. Children must learn to write. Forget spelling. Forget grammar. Can they state what they think and defend why?
But I am afraid this is the last thing our current government wants our children to learn.

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I'm not sure if this has been commented on yet, but there seems to be a running theme of "putting my kid in private school saved him from those brutish, nasty common people" (you know, the children of crack addicts, drug dealers, poor people and so forth.)

Yes, in some cases the private school in your area may suit your childs needs better, in some cases public school might. It's not public or private, it's individual schools. The debate over quality simply can't be framed as public vs private.

For all those who think that private schooling will save them from the "less desirable" elements of society, and have offered their personal tales of woe, allow me to present mine.

I attended a variety of private schools from my first day in the 1st grade, through my bachelors degree. I found them to be a dumping ground for all the problem children that have been kicked or pulled out of public school. The only difference is, they were usually troubled children of well to do parents instead of troubled children of poor parents.

I resent the education I received because with smaller schools and smaller class sizes come less options. Fewer class options, fewer activities, fewer specialized teachers. I did not need one-on-one attention and rarely did it benefit me. In fact, i've found that the constant stream of morons diluting my small classes caused the teachers to teach to the lowest common denomenator because they were often in the majority.

I reiterate, some private schools offer quality education and high standards, some do not. Same deal for public school.

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Well, I've read all the comments, and I have to say, I sent my son to public school because I felt it was the right thing to do. As long as he was in elementary school, it pretty much worked out (because he went to a middle-class primarily white school). But by the eighth grade I was asking him if he would like to go to private school (he wouldn't...), because although he went to the same physical junior high and high school I did (my husband went to this high school also), which even when I graduated was less than 50% white, although it was one of the top 10 public high schools in the country at the time (and almost everyone graduated too, out of a class of 1300), academically and socially these schools are now politically correct, with students who have no idea how to behave in a classroom, and a significant number (close to half, I hear) do not graduate, even thought there are only half as many students.

There are good teachers and bad teachers in every school. There are teachers who can control their classrooms so that a few students do not deny an education to all the others, and there are a lot who can't. I am well-educated, I know a lot, I've worked in the schools, and I have to say that I would never in a million years consider home-schooling. I don't have some of the knowledge teachers have (if you watch a really good teacher in action for a full day, or a week, you'll be in awe), and the children I have run into who were being home-schooled were not exactly impressive, and the activities their parents arranged for them (science activities at the local regional parks, for example) just didn't even come close to what my son did in school in addition to these outside activities, which in conversation with these parents, were the primary science education these kids were getting.

Everybody has to make their own choice, but I suggest to people moving to my town to make sure they can afford to send their kids to private school, because after a while, they will probably want to. I support tracking (talk about politically incorrect!) but in my high school, only English classes were tracked, and I strongly support vocational education for those kids who don't really want to go college (voc ed is a real no-no in our town...). Keep all your options open, and hope that the schools you look at have all the options too.

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All the best to you! Choosing a school is a full-time task. I went to public schools and I had plenty of nice experiences, but it's your money, and if you want to send her to a private school, make sure you can afford it.

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Well if the schools in this ladies article are good then sending here kids there is good.

However tons of us were not that fortunate. I was supposed to go to the worst middle school and high school in LA. The lady was lucky enough to send her kid to the local school but sending a kid here to the local school is almost a sentence to failure.

I went to public school from kindergarten until high school. I went to an innercity elementary school and it was pretty good because the parents were involved.

I went to a GATE/magnet middle school though. It was the best public middle school in all of LA. However had I gone to my local middle school I would have been miserable.

I went to one of the top schools in the country for high school. I am a poor Mexican-American female who lives in South Central Los Angeles raised by a single mother. She is on disability btw. I go to my school on financial aid.

Diversity depends on the individual schools. There is a lot of diversity at my school. I go to school with many middle class white kids, kids from South Korea, (my local public high school is 60% hispanic, 40% black. No white kids and a dozen asians It is a 4000 student school btw)

The lady in this article is lucky that she could send her kid to a diverse middle school. There are many people who will never have that opportunity.

The fact that I never went to school with a single white kid until I was in 9th grade private school tells you something about the state of public school.

Public school has options if you search for them. All my friends from LA attend Magnet schools that are far away from their homes but they are getting good education.

You can afford private school btw if I can. All the top private schools have amazing financial aid. If my mom makes $6000 a year on disability and still send me to one of the top private schools in the country I think you can probably send your kid to private school if you want.

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There is a place for both public and private schools- each offers a very distinct educational opportunity and the needs of specific children should be taken into account when deciding which is the best option at the time.

I myself attended both a private and a public grammar school- both were dredful experiences for different reasons. High school was public- loved it. College and graduate schools were both private- loved them.

When we chose schools for our children (adopted) we considered what setting would be best for them. We live in a working class- middle class community that is ethnic but almost exclusively Caucasian. In either school system there was no racial diversity; this was achieved by by sending them to summer camp where some of the children were physically handicapped, some from economically poor families. while a rich racial and cultural mix (also with counsellors coming from various countres.) was available. Kids all loved it (not just ours.)

We opted for a private grammar school for them. Coming from a public school, the older child was unable to write entering the third grade, while the younger child was unable to speak coherently (made no sense). They also came with serious behavior problems as well as emotional difficulties. We selected the private school because the classes were small (approximately 10 or less students in a grade), they recived personal attention to help them catch up to their classmates, academic standard were high (students tested much higher than in the public school on standardized tests), they could be on sports teams, while all the teachers knew each of the students, so order was maintained. Our children tried the patients of all their teachers, but while they were not too cooperative, they managed to absorb much so that at graduation, they were achieving on the 3rd year high school level, and were diagnosed (yes, they were tested by psycholigists) as gifted and highly creative.

Each ended up in a public high school. Not much supervision. Increased behavior problems handled by sending them to detention where they met others with behavior problems, and chose these as friends. End of all effort on their part. Both dropped out of school at age 16...the story does not get better after this.

Adolescence also entered into this, but when they became numbers in a larger school, they found that, unlike grammar school, they were able to get away with whatever they did, and considered this a success. Larger schools with larger classes are not usually geared to dealing with children with certain specialized needs. At least ours had acquired a solid foundation in their private grammar school to build on when maturity set in.

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My husband and I have nine children and in 1979 we made the decision to send our first child to public school even though we had attended parochial schools. This year my youngest is a senior in high school. Not only were they all entirely schooled within the public education system, the schools they attended are in an urban public school district.

Sure, there is junk going on but there are also people trying to remedy the problems. Along the way I have found a wonderful community of like-minded parents who have not been afraid to fight for our public school district despite the powerful opposition of political factions and private school interests.

Everyone knows (or at least they should know) that good schools take committed parents. I envision an experiment in which the lowest achieving children in a particular urban public school switch places with children from an elite private school. I postulate that in the elite school the urban children will fare more poorly than they did in their original school and the elite children will do as well. Plus the elite children would gain in experience in diversity - something lacking in many private and parochial schools.

I have been extremely pleased how well my children have succeeded. They are very definitely citizens of a global community and I consider this to be a result of their experiences within the public school system. In addition, I have found caring and supportive teachers who have to struggle mightily against the negative rhetoric directed towards public schools (as demonstrated in some of the comments in this column) as well as the financially punative practices placed by politicians who have no idea what is really happening in the schools.

Basically, if one is committed to helping improve the education of children of poverty, then do what Ruth Conniff and I have done. Get down and dirty in the public schools. Send your child and fix it from within but you'll find some things are working quite well. You will also find others just like youself and you will see the injustices done by outsiders who seem intent to destroy public education under the guise of helping children escape failing schools.

Five of my children have graduated from college (one is an urban school teacher), three are currently going to college. Putting that one attended an urban public school in one's college application essay certainly distingishes a prospect from the others in cookie-cutter prep schools.

None use drugs, none smoke. Five are married. They all do interesting work. I am happy with the people they have all become.

My words to Ruth and others like her - stick it out, you and your child both as well as public education will end up richer for the experience.

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I have no idea what the cost is of a private school, but the vouchers are money from the public schools to the private schools. That weakens the public schools and takes away money needed for good public schools.

We have excellent schools as far as class size and equipment, because I live in an affluent county with lots of business headquarters.

It seems like every year they come up with something new to make school hard. Last year recess wasn't allowed. Finally at the end of the year, the state passed a law that children should have a certain amount of recess, outdoor time, and exercise.

The way they handle free lunches here is it all kept in the computer, they never ask if someone pays or it is free. I think some teachers like to do that to poor children. Those who pay for lunch and get behind, get a computer generated printout.

This year they are not opening the school doors until 9 a.m. You can't take the kids there until 8:45. That is hard for parents who work. Most need to be at work before then.

Children have so much going on in their life and so many things compete with their school work and reading. At home, there are TV, video games, computing, bicycling and friends next door. Then there are sports for every season.

A lot of things like school books are being privatized, where before they had a place that printed up the books containing contents according to the best minds and teachers.

Even I am finding day to day chores boring because there are so many interesting blogs!

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That literacy in the United States peaked in the school year of 1930-1931 and been declining ever since. In the first year of the Depression the overall literacy rate was 96%. Interestingly, the literacy rate of Northern-educated Blacks was 81% while the literacy rate of Southern-educated whites was 80%. So much for the swine and "rationalists" who claim that black people are unable to learn more than white people.

Fast forward to today and the literacy rate overall is only 75% and rapidly declining. I am a public school teacher with 15 years of experience in places ranging from the darkest areas of Appalachia, to Catholic parochial schools, currently to a high school of 1700 students that is supposedly one of the top ten high schools in my state, and I can tell you right now that literacy is in rapid decline. I challenge anyone to pick up a "9th grade" text book and lay it beside the "Blue Ship" McGuffey readers that were once used and you will quickly find that the modern textbook is only written on about a 3.5 grade reading level.

The facts are, pardon my language now, that standardized state tests are pure bullshit in that every year they "dumb-down" the standards to make it appear that the students are learning at the same level as students in years past. They are not! The only standardized test that truly measures and compares today's students to those way in the past is the ASVAB test whose standards were set way back before World War I. This test could be used to evaluate American students free-of-charge, but then one must realize that under the current circumstances this will never occur as the testing corporations, state boards of education, and the state legislatures are all in cooperation with one another that everyone gets what they want (good testing results, good poll numbers, and a hell of a lot of money!). My own state emphasizes what is know as "Outcome-Based Education", where basically they tell us to teach the testing techniques to the students. Many of us do otherwise when the Administrators are not looking, otherwise the students would get even less of an education than what they are receiving already. Interestingly, Soviet Russia used a form of Outcome-based Education from 1917 to 1931, which was eliminated after they became determined to stamp out the illiteracy that had become institutionalized as a result.

I myself am one of the last Accelerated and A.P. Physics Teachers in an area having a town of about 54,000 people, with 5 local high schools. I am now seeing bright students who are illiterate. They somehow can do the mathematics and basic reasoning, but cannot read the problems. I still can teach them how to do the physics, despite the reading problems. The numbers of bright students that I see each year have been declining over the last 6 years or so; within a few years I will not have enough to teach these classes that are so vital in the preparation of future scientists and engineers.

I also teach the Gen-Ed Classes (we call them "college-prep" classes, even though they really don't prepare a student for college). It is here that I observe vast numbers of students who are functionally illiterate, and I see these numbers increasing each year. I believe that when the schools abandoned a phonics-based method for the "whole word" method that these problems began. In the last 15 years our elementary students have been taught in "pods" or groups where the bright ones do the work, while the slower ones never really learn how to do it, yet they receive a grade reflecting achievement. This development has determined even worse reading results, while teaching students how to cheat.

I believe that if this plague of illiteracy is not dealt with soon, then within 20 years our public schools will not be able to function. Call it the Collapse of a Modern Imperial Rome, or whatever you desire, but it is indeed coming.

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Some Public Schools are very good, but the norm is not very good & in decline. This is especially true of urban districts and a large number of suburban districts.

The bottom line: you should check out the school and get involved regardless of what kind of school it is. A clean and safe school can be an academic dog and a run down one can have a stellar track record. Appearances can be very deceptive.

Public education is a great concept but is a bust for millions of American families. Many private schools are clean and safe, but lacking in academic quality. Sadly, many send their kids to a private school to isolate them from working class and poor kids. They are not doing their kids a favor because eventually they will have to work and live in the real world that exists beyond gated communities and private schools full of 'people like us'.

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Students are as good as their peers. And their family values. Way less than 50% of urban blacks have a solid family structure. And mexican illegals don't have a family tradition of stressing academic excellence. Goes for white trash too. The notion that 'diversity' is more beneficial than homogeniety is moronic. Surround your kid with kids from the best and brightest families and you will usually end up better than surrounding them with 'diversity'. If you feel your kids need that exposure, take a Sunday drive to the 'wrong side of town'.

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My daughter and her two sons live with us, so I am more into what the grandson does in school than most grandparents. We are middle class, but he is in the rich group in school. I am talking those who have maids, theaters and bowling alleys.

Thinking back, my daughters each had good, decent friends. They were always in the group that made the best grades and had the most going for them. Every once in awhile they would do something honery, but never drugs.

It does seem all students gravitate toward the most popular ones in school and want to dress, wear their hair like them and even act like them. They do that until you get down to the ones that can't even begin to be like them and they form another group.

My husband moved from a larger school, where he wasn't one of the "it" crowd, to a small country school. There he was one of the "it" crowd, because he was excellent at sports and fun to be around. Sometimes, like they say, it is better to be a big frog of a little pond, that a little frog of a big pond.

I believe everyone should have the individual freedom to decide if they want their children to go to private or public school.

However, I do not think anyone should take money from public schools to send their children to private school. Vouchers do that. That will weaken the public schools. Vouchers to go to another public school would probably work, if there are big problems.

Maybe we need a state or county team that can go to schools and work with students that are having trouble adjusting or learning in school. Get to the root of the problem instead of pulling our educational system out by the roots.

The Bushites would gradually take us back to where only the rich have school rather than pay taxes. They will have private schools, so they can profit from them. As soon as the public schools get uprooted, then private schools will be as unaffordable as college for most.

Private schools will hide problems rather than lose a profitable child. On a financial show, one of them said we can even charge them for riding the bus to school. Imagine all the little extra costs they will add on to the cost of going to school.

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Robba29,

you are the same person who wrote this comment, no?

Corrupt United Nations? Dude, you trust the US military more????? Wait, you said you were from Appalachia--that explains it.

Come on, chill out and keep it professional.

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It's odd that supporters of our public school system go to such great lengths to tout the government-run monopoly while demonizing the idea of individual choice when it comes to education. If the public system isn't failing, and, as some of you contend, it's actually better than the private system, why are you so afraid to compete with private schools? It would seem like a perfect experiment to prove to us conservatives just how much better the government is at educating our children.

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Well at my Public let me say PUBLIC school i was on the first day and i have four bottom lip piercings and thy had not een half inch spikes on themnot even close to one inch spikes and i had gotten them done so recentley that if i took them out they would get infected when i put them back in, or they would close up leaving me with a waste of 120 dollars. So i was sitting in the "Student Support office" And a man walks in and tells me i have to love them or go home, I said "What? on the first day you ahve to be kidding? No other alternatives i mean I didnt know and who would?" He told me " Well im sorry but thats not my porblem, If you were to get punched your mouth woul be very messed up." I told him "It is my choice to have these in and if i get hurt from them thats my fault and what my choices are arnt yours or the counties." He then walks out odf the room coming back in and hands me a pair of pliers and tells me to take the spikes off and bend the rings shut or go home. So he tells me that i could get hurt from my lip rings but then he turns around and give me a on choice decision to bend my newley pierced lip with a unsterilized pliers. Why would you do that to some one? Why would the county do that, it was mine and your, i mean they are kinda of putting a form of cencorship on me, I mean after all it is just a lip ring and i am just a kid so waht does my opoinon matter but its serious to me as far as this progresses every year what will we have left we will all be in private school wether we like it or not. This is not right making kids be who the "county" wants them to be not them selfs. We cannot even wear colored shoe laces. We werent supposed to hve band shirts or long hair all of which i have. To most parents eyes and teachers i seem likea dilinquint but if i was why would i spend 20 minutes writing a persuasive parahgraph to persuade people, (of which i learned in school). My point is i wanna be me not like every oen else, not like the "county" wants me. I want to speak what i want and think freeley and say what i want on my views on every thing and not have to worries about getting in truoble and my last way of expressing my self are my looks and tyhere taking tat too i just wont stand fro it but the opoinon of on 15 year old sophmore will not change the view of a single parent, County member, or school administrator or Principle.

Help me out and let me know you agree if not tell me why. THank you all fro spending your time on this like i have

Truly
David nathan Bowman,

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Get this straight folks. The 'problem' isn't the school or the teachers. It's the type of students that are there and their background. You can't force any kid to study. And if they don'r have the kind of family support that makes them study, there's nothing a teacher can really do. It doesn't matter what income group or class the kids come from. they either want to rise above what they come from, or they don't. Libraries are free and available to all. And many do rise above their environment. And what does Pres Bush have to do with this at all. The most populous urban school systems are controlled by democratic political machines. It doesn't take more money to make things better, that should seem obvious to all but the dim-witted. My county of 350,000 has total mandated bussing and complete 'diversity' and racial integration. All the correct 'solutions' ad nauseum. But the kids from the lower classes still are at the bottom. And don't blame the teachers, money, or whatever for that. They're not responsible for a kids upbringing. And neither is the rest of society.

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