Home
Archive
Newsletters
Video
Blogs
Discuss
About
Search
Donate
Advertise

Nashville's New Nativism

By Bob Moser, The Nation. Posted August 25, 2006.


The country-music capital has rapidly morphed into a 'new Ellis Island.' And some of the neighbors aren't too happy about it.

Share and save this post:

      

      

Share on Facebook       

AlterNet Social Networks:
follow us on twitter
find us on Facebook

In Special Coverage

Belief:
Nobel Laureate Slams the Bible, Calls It "A Catalogue of Cruelties"
Mario de Queiroz

Corporate Accountability and WorkPlace:
As Foreclosure Nightmares Increase, Will More Homeowners Pay Off Their Bankers in Violence?
Scott Thill

DrugReporter:
Lies About Marijuana Drive People to a Much More Harmful Drug -- Booze
Steve Fox

Environment:
Why Max Baucus' 'No' Vote on the Climate Bill May Really Help Its Passage
Jeff Mcmahon

Food:
Despite Censorship By Beef Magnate, Michael Pollan Spreads Message About the Real Price of Cheap Food

Health and Wellness:
Do We Really Want to Enshrine Insurance Monopoly into Law? This and 5 Other Complaints About the Health Bill
John Nichols

Immigration:
NYC Marathon Raises Question of Who Is American Enough?
James E. Johnson, Jr.

Media and Technology:
How Biased Media Can Brainwash You
Melinda Burns

Movie Mix:
The Yes Men: Pranksters Out to Fix the World
Mark Engler

Politics:
4 Ways the Stupak Amendment Deprives Women of Access to Abortion
Jessica Arons

Reproductive Justice and Gender:
Fetus-Shaped Potatoes? Going Undercover Inside the Weird World of Right-Wing Abortion Foes
Ann Neumann

Rights and Liberties:
"My Kids Want to Hide Their Identity; They're Scared Someone Will Attack Us": U.S. Muslims Being Targeted
Jaisal Noor

Sex and Relationships:
Instant Sex: Has the Digital Age Destroyed Relationships or Made Them Better?
Vanessa Richmond

Take Action:
G-20 Meetings: Nothing Much Happened in the Suites, and There Was Too Much Punch in the Streets
Laura Flanders

Water:
Why Natural Gas Is Not a Clean Energy Panacea
Stan Cox

World:
With Unemployment at 40 Percent, Afghan Teens Enlist in Army, Police
Lal Aqa Sherin

More stories by Bob Moser

Advertisement
Upcoming AlterNet stories on Digg

Nashville -- "When I tell you that the area where I grew up now resembles Tijuana more than the U.S. -- well, hang on, you're about to see what I mean," says Theresa Harmon. Tennessee's most vociferous anti-immigration organizer has just picked me up, straight from work at a local construction firm, in her red 1986 Mercury Cougar -- a "kicker," she calls it fondly, apologizing for the lack of air-conditioning. "Bless your heart -- I'm used to the heat," she says, talking her usual mile a minute as she puffs a Misty long and noses into rush-hour traffic, headed for the South Nashville neighborhood where she grew up. "I mean, who would have ever thought Nashville would be an illegal alien magnet?" she says. "Nashville!"

In fact, the country-music capital has rapidly morphed into what one writer dubbed "a new Ellis Island," the unlikely symbol of America's biggest refugee and immigrant resettlement since the Industrial Revolution. For more than a decade now, most immigrants have been bypassing traditional urban destinations in favor of Middle American towns and cities where jobs are abundant and unemployment is scant. Music City has ranked first among U.S. cities since 1990 in immigration growth, and now has the largest community of Kurdish refugees in the United States. Like the rest of Tennessee, Nashville also ranks high as a destination for undocumented Hispanics -- and that's the part that rankles Harmon. "The Kurds are the nicest people you'd ever want to meet," she says. "A lot like the Hispanic folk we've had here for a long time."

Not the new ones. "Sadly, I've gotten to where I can look at a row of houses now and say, 'They're legal -- they're illegal.' Simply because the ones that are legal tend to have that pride of place. The illegals? They don't give a rat's hind end about fitting in or being a U.S. citizen. They're here because they want money, and that's it. They brought their chickens-in-the-yard culture over here with them. You see ten cars parked in the front yard, where you used to see flower beds."

Harmon has known some of those flower beds for decades. "My neighborhood is gone," she declares, steering down a winding hill through her old haunts. "I can't read the signs because I don't speak Spanish -- in my native country!" As we hang a right onto the heavily trafficked business artery of Murfreesboro Road, Harmon starts pointing out evidence right and left. "As you see, everything for blocks is either a check-cashing place, a PayDay Loan or something Mexican. I don't know what the deal is with that one," she says, aiming a burgundy fingernail at a DryCleanersUSA sign, festooned in Stars and Stripes, that has been hung upside down.

"I can tell you what was in every one of these buildings until about five years ago," she says. "Some of them have been here since I was a child. Right there was my dentist's office," she says, pointing to a Western Union sign. "Now if it's not for rent, it's got a Mexican sign on it."

Harmon's culture shock was part of what prompted her to co-found Tennesseans for Responsible Immigration Policies (TRIP), now the state's leading anti-immigration group, in 2001. But even if she sometimes sounds like a walking, talking cultural-backlash cliché, she doesn't exactly fit the mold. Harmon, who as a teenager cruised South Nashville with a big gold marijuana-leaf decal on the back of her Camaro ("it matched," she says), has always had a rebellious streak as wide as Tennessee. "Maybe I read too many mysteries as a child," she says. "I have to think out of the box."

She fell in love with activism in 1999 when she partnered with the ACLU in a successful challenge to a new uniform policy at two of her children's public schools. "I don't know about you, but I see kids going to school in uniforms, and I'm seeing little Nazis heiling Hitler."

Harmon sees the same mindless conformity taking hold in America. "We've let George W. Bush do more damage than Bill Clinton and every President before him could have even thought about doing. It's all about corporations. They run this country, and they run this world. That's not a world I want to live in. But everybody just behaves like sheep." Including those who've supported the war in Iraq. "How many kids did we have killed over there today for no good reason?" she asks. "Two? Ten? Twenty? Get. Them. Out. Of. There." It all fits together for Harmon: opposing Bush, opposing corporatism and opposing immigration. "This whole influx happened because big business wants cheap labor," she says. "Just like that war is making corporations a lot of money. And Bush is doing all he can to help them."

As the temperature over immigration keeps rising, Harmon says she worries about the level of frustration she's hearing, more and more, from other nativists in Tennessee and around the country. "The most popular formula is, 'soap box, ballot box, ammo box.' They'll X out the first two, like those options are gone and all you can do is arm yourself and get ready. I'm looking at that going, phew! It's going to get ugly."

Tennessee's toxic anti-immigrant mix

Welcome to Tennessee, white-hot nexus of the new American nativism. When Governor Phil Bredesen complained this summer that Tennesseans were being whipped into a "frenzy" over immigration, some took issue with the culprits he cited -- opportunistic Republican candidates -- but not a soul could challenge the accuracy of his description. From formerly homogenous factory towns in East Tennessee to the formerly biracial city of Memphis in the west, the topic of the day -- the debate of the day -- is how to handle Tennessee's transformation into a major "destination state" for immigrants.

The transformation commenced in the 1990s, when Tennessee's immigrant population shot up 278 percent. The backlash was muted until April 2001, when the state became the first to grant driver's licenses to undocumented immigrants. The legislative battle over licenses sparked immigrant-rights activism across the state. It also stoked fears among many natives that the already-brisk migration into Tennessee might just keep picking up steam. "If you make yourself a welcome wagon for immigrants, you'll get plenty," says Donna Locke, head of Tennesseans for Immigration Control and Reform. "That's certainly what Tennessee did."

The groundswell of anti-immigrant sentiment first started to crest five months after the driver's license bill was passed, says David Lubell, director of TIRRC (Tennessee Immigrant and Refugee Rights Coalition): "After September 11, that's when it all changed here. They started to talk about 'driver's licenses for terrorists.' Opinions really began to harden."

In the state legislature immigration-rights groups still usually have the upper hand. This year, they fended off nineteen of twenty "reform" bills, losing only a minor skirmish. Having a Democratic majority in the state House, which generally sticks together on immigration issues, certainly helps -- as does the pro-immigration lobbying muscle of the state's Chambers of Commerce.

But on the campaign trail, especially this year, nativism rules. The big statewide race this year is to replace Bill Frist in the U.S. Senate, and it features three Republican contenders who've spent much of the primary season honing their Wyatt Earp imitations. One of them, former State Representative Ed Bryant, got so carried away in May that he lit out for the Arizona border to help the Minuteman Civil Defense Corps splice together a fence. Not to be outdone, shoo-in Democratic nominee Harold Ford Jr., the whiz-kid Congressman with a generally moderate voting record on immigration issues, hit the airwaves in June with a startling new ad. "Every day over 5,700 miles of border stands unsecured," Ford's voice intones solemnly. "Every day almost 2,000 people enter America illegally. Every day hundreds of employers look the other way, handing out jobs that keep illegals coming. And every day the rest of us pay the price."

While politicians legitimize nativist arguments, the flames of bigotry are fanned in Tennessee by a plethora of sources -- not only "mainstream" anti-immigration groups and websites like Harmon's and Locke's but ad hoc "concerned citizens" groups in small towns around the state. Fears of a Ku Klux Klan revival in East Tennessee have been stoked by large turnouts of Tennessee Klansmen at recent rallies of a newly invigorated KKK in nearby northern Alabama -- and by two hate crimes that put Tennessee immigrants on notice last year. In one case, a former Klansman named Daniel Shertz was arrested for plotting to blow up buses carrying Hispanic immigrants from Tennessee to Florida. In the other, a Mexican grocery store in Maryville was torn up by five young white supremacists who scrawled swastikas, "SS," and "WP," for white power, on the front of the store as their calling card.

"Tennessee has a uniquely toxified mix when it comes to immigration," says Devin Burghart of the Center for New Community, which monitors the nativist movement and works to counter its message. The toxins don't just come from campaign rhetoric, and anti-immigration and hate groups -- they also churn up through the media. In June the big Nashville daily, the Tennessean, rolled out the colorful story of Coopertown Mayor Danny Crosby, a modern-day Boss Hog who -- among a stunning array of other alleged offenses -- reportedly ordered his officers to target Hispanics for traffic tickets (whether or not they committed any violations). But the Crosby saga didn't stand a chance against the lurid tale of drunk-driving Mexican immigrant Gustavo Garcia Reyes, who after numerous previous convictions ran into and killed a white couple in Mount Juliet, the Nashville suburb where Theresa Harmon lives. For weeks his mug shot made regular appearances on front pages as the story flew around nativist websites nationwide and landed on Fox News. But nobody rode the story harder than Tennessee's most poisonous media personality.

Resisting a mythical reconquista

Late this April, in an old factory complex converted into swank suburban shopping digs in the Nashville suburb of Franklin, more than 1,000 Tennesseans came out to cheer their hero, 99.7-FM drive-home-time host Phil Valentine. The son of a former Democratic Congressman in North Carolina, Valentine is a leading voice -- and instigator -- of Tennessee's nativist backlash. "Wake up and smell the tacos," Valentine likes to say, flaunting his political incorrectness. His website recently featured a full-color image of the Statue of Liberty wearing a sombrero, with a huge black mustache pasted on, a jar of salsa instead of a flame and a bottle of Patron cradled in her lower hand. Liberty rests on a tottering foundation of Chicklets, Tostitos and a Taco Bell sign.

All in all, a lot like the "joke" that slipped out of Valentine's mouth at his rally in Franklin, where three Republican state legislators joined him on stage. Susan Tully, field director of FAIR (the Washington-based Federation for American Immigration Reform), was complaining about the Border Patrol's "catch and release" policy, saying that illegal immigrants were returned the first time they were caught, the second time, the third time ... all the way to seven times. And what, Tully asked rhetorically, do we do the eighth time? "Shoot 'em!" Valentine interjected. The surburbanites roared their approval.

Two months later, in his nondescript studio on Music Circle, I ask about his incendiary comment. "I just said that as an ice-breaker and as a joke," he says. "I am not a racist. I'm not advocating seriously that we shoot anybody. It's just the frustration level."

The frustration level among Tennessee nativists began to reach fever pitch this spring. On March 29 more than 10,000 Hispanic immigrants marched in the largest protest in Nashville history; there were smaller but impressive marches in several other towns and cities across the state. Then came the "Day Without Immigrants" boycott on May 1, when an estimated 10,000 Hispanics in Tennessee took part. Valentine organized a counterboycott with Theresa Harmon's group, TRIP, targeting businesses that shut down for the day. "I've talked to people who said that before the protests they were sitting on the sidelines," Valentine says, "but now they are incensed. They see that these people are carrying Mexican flags, they don't speak English -- they are in your face. People are more attuned to what the problem is."

Valentine's show dishes up a full menu of problems: immigrant diseases, "terrorist gangs" and, of course, illegal killers. "If these people were to get vetted like everybody else, we would get rid of the Gustavo Garcia Reyeses before they come over the border," he says. "That particular case has really put a face on the immigration debate like nothing else." That's partly because of Valentine's efforts. The murder in Mount Juliet gave him a perfect opportunity to alert his listeners to a purported wave of violent crime committed by illegal immigrants in Tennessee and nationwide. "I have heard that from thirteen to twenty-five people a day are being killed by illegal immigrants," he tells me. (He's a little sketchy on the source.)

But does Valentine believe the biggest nativist myth of all, that there's a reconquista afoot? "Oh, absolutely," he says. "Not with all of them, but with many of them. I think there's a plan to move Hispanics into the Southwest and vote it back to Mexico. I think there's a big plan to do that. They think that the territory was taken illegally from them in the Mexican-American War. That's where this reconquista thing comes from. They are nuts. This is the United States of America. We can't change that!"

Nor should we have to, Valentine says. "A lot of these people who are illegal want to come and plant their culture inside of ours," he says. "We're having to, now, speak Spanish, and try to understand them. We've never had to understand anybody."

Life at the center of the debate

Phil Valentine gets on Rick Casares's very last nerve. "I don't like to say this about anybody," Casares says, "but he's just a racist." Casares has been working only six months as outreach coordinator for TIRRC, the statewide immigration-rights group, and he knows he needs to be more politic when talking to reporters. But he feels this in his bones. "For me, it's personal," he says. "My parents were illegal immigrants from Mexico." His father, among other accomplishments, rose to become mayor pro tem in the predominantly white town of Rosemeade, California. Still, Casares says, it was ugly at times. But the discrimination he saw his parents face "pales to what immigrants face today in this climate of poisonous rhetoric."

Casares's job is to detoxify. He's heading a new Welcoming Tennessee Initiative, inspired by a successful effort in Iowa. "We're trying to highlight what we have in common, and get past the myths and stereotypes that diminish immigrants' worth," he says. The myth-busting message will be spread around the state by regional volunteers trained to address civil and community groups, churches, minority and business groups. Welcoming Tennessee has also launched a billboard campaign appealing directly to native Tennesseans' values. The first shows two grinning children and quotes the Book of Matthew: "I was a stranger, and you welcomed me." The second is a collage of images of immigrants throughout U.S. history; the message is, "Welcome the Immigrant You Once Were."

Casares knows that welcoming immigrants is not exactly at the top of most Tennesseans' agendas these days. "Last year we turned back gay marriage," he says. "This year we're turning back the brown horde."

"The facts just bounce off people," says Casares's TIRRC colleague Stephen Fotopulos. "The way people get their news now, there's no way to counter the image of a white, native-born Tennessee family killed by an illegal immigrant. It is so much harder to quantify, to get your mind around, all the benefits that would go away if these same people weren't here."

It's especially hard when people are yelling at you because you're standing up for "illegals." Like Casares, Fotopulos is a military veteran who says his training from hazardous-duty zones now serves him well. "I'm still surprised at the things people will say," he says, reading from a recent e-mail message: "'You are a lying, deceitful, rotten traitor and an enemy to every American for betraying your country.... If you like illegal aliens so much, why don't you go south of the border, live there and stay there? And take all the other turd-lovers and criminal illegal alien lawbreaking filth with you. You belong with the other inferior, substandard scum. You're not good enough to be an American.'"

While there's no doubt 2006 has already been a tumultuous year in Tennessee, Fotopulos says he's "not pessimistic at all. I'm constantly amazed at how we'll go out to a rally where people have these Phil Valentine talking points and are as certain as they can be. We start talking about it, and we usually end up at a reasonable place where we see that we really do want the same things. It's bad to have a system that doesn't work. It is. And there are people here who have very real cultural concerns, who see the life they've known being submerged. We can talk about that. But what truly changes people is human contact. In fifteen years everybody here will know Hispanics personally, and it just won't be so much of an issue."

In the meantime, Fotopulos sees the bright side. "What I really value about being in Tennessee right now," he says, "is that this is Middle America, and there's no winning this immigration debate without understanding what people here think."

Dancing around the real issues

It's easy to chalk up the nativist frenzy in Tennessee entirely to the usual suspects: gut-level racism, bigotry, ignorance, NIMBYism, right-wing radio hosts. But what's eating Tennesseans, and hundreds of thousands of other Middle American nativists, is also something deeper, subtler -- and likely to outlast the current debates over immigration policy. "This is not just about immigrants and immigration," says Devin Burghart. "It's something much greater -- the nexus of race, national identity, who we are and who we want to be."

You can hear it in Theresa Harmon's worries about corporate fascism. You can hear it from Tennessee's other leading anti-immigration activist, Donna Locke, whose quality-of-life concerns are larger than NIMBYism. Locke, who says, "I consider myself a liberal," once agitated for "all the usual late '60s and early '70s causes." The issue that stuck with her into adulthood was overpopulation and what it means for the human environment. "I've always felt that America could set an example for the rest of the world by dealing sensibly with population growth," she says. "The more crowded it gets, the cheaper life becomes, and the easier it becomes to exploit people. Individuality dies, and with it dies a lot of what makes us ethical and moral human beings. I think it will be a disaster for the whole world if America loses that. And we are losing it. You can see it happening in Tennessee."

You can hear those broader anxieties, in very different terms, from Carol Swain. A black conservative who studies white nationalism and teaches at Vanderbilt University, Swain believes that by "not thinking deeply about our immigration policies, we have created the conditions for long-term racial unrest." As the day when white Americans constitute a minority of the population grows nearer, Swain predicts, "white people will increasingly see themselves as under attack. And it makes sense. If I were white, I would be feeling a lot of fear and uncertainty. I'd want to talk about it openly, too. But you can't talk about it. That's a big reason the lure of white nationalism is strong right now. As we dance around the real issues, ordinary people will find answers where they can."

When I ask Swain why she is an immigration restrictionist herself, she ponders a while, then puts a new spin on the deep-seated frustrations that simmer beneath the surface of the new nativism. "I'd feel better about it if I believed in this country," she says. "When I see how poor black and white people are treated -- and have been treated -- I can't hold out any hope that millions of working-poor Hispanic people are going to receive better treatment. Things are not fluid in America. The system is not fair. Immigrants will learn that after a while. The American Dream promises a lot, but delivers very little."

"Now, you be careful," the director of Tennessee's Minuteman Civil Defense Corps is telling me over the phone. "Don't drive too fast. Take your time. Be safe."

The front lines of the movement

I'm headed toward Jim Carter's home and shooting range, twenty minutes south of Nashville in the booming suburb of Murfreesboro. Telltale signs of breakneck development whoosh by on either side of the highway: long swaths of denuded earth, ragged mounds of orangy dirt, Hispanic workers climbing and hammering. Carter lives out beyond the new subdivisions, on ten woody acres ringed by an electronic security fence.

He waves me through the front gate and points me, aircraft carrier-style, to a spot on the front lawn where my rental car can sit in the shade. After introducing one of his Minuteman "coordinators," a hulking young carpenter named Ryan Kerr, Carter leads us into the comfy house he built, "foundation up," after retiring from his job painting commercial aircraft. As we sit down on his glassed-in back porch, Carter fetches me a cold bottle of water. I'm beginning to wonder what such a gentle soul is doing leading a Minuteman group. Until a few minutes later, when Carter leans forward, gazes laserlike through his yellow shooting lenses and declares: "We have some people already who are like kindling. We have to be the spark. We're gonna get the fire roaring. People are gonna have a bonfire."

Carter, a Vietnam vet with a white beard and rosy complexion, started sparking his Minuteman chapter in February. He now has "over eighty" volunteers signed up. It's hard work, though. "I probably get thirty, forty e-mails each and every day with people wanting information," says Carter. "My wife complains because sometimes I have to work from 6 o'clock in the morning until I can't see anymore, have to turn the headlights on the lawn mower."

Why does he do it? When I ask the question, Carter turns to Kerr -- as if to say, there's your reason. Until recently, Kerr ran his own framing business. He says he did well until he refused to join his peers in hiring illegal immigrants and slashing wages. "By trying to be legit, I was losing twelve to fifteen hundred a house as I was framing. I had fifteen people working for me, three crews. By being stubborn, I ran my business into the dirt. If I'd hired illegal immigrants, I'd be living high on the hog right now."

Carter says that much of the Minuteman membership, so far, consists of white folks -- and two black men -- who've had similar struggles. Now they're hatching plans to confront local construction firms that have "gone brown." "We'll pick our places, inform the owners of our intentions, and then we'll start marching on them," Kerr says. "To me, it's a no-brainer. If we show up with eighty or ninety people and the Daily News Journal, we're probably going to stop this. Within a month, we'll get rid of all of them. They're going to know the heat is coming."

The other goal, Carter says, is to recruit enough members "to have a small group on the border, fifty-two weeks out of the year." He and Kerr both plan to be part of the MCDC's next Border Watch month, in October. Carter will surely not lack for ammunition. At the immigrant-rights march in Nashville this spring, when he was accompanied by about twenty-five other counterprotesters, "I had five guns on me. I had over 150 extra rounds of ammo just in case. I didn't know what was going to happen, or who was going to be there."

Kerr is resigning his membership on the county's Republican Party executive committee now that he's a Minuteman leader. "What I'm doing now is going to upset a lot of people who put me forth" in the GOP, he says. "I've been a contractor here for twelve years. I know these people. And they know me, and know that I'm a 250-pound state wrestler. They have that in the back of their heads. My goal is to have twenty contractors up in my face. If I don't have twenty, I'm not making enough noise."

"The only time we will become violent is in self-defense," Carter interjects.

"Yeah, well, they're going to come after me. There's going to be some upset people who are affected by this. My thing is, you make the first move and there's witnesses, and we'll take care of it from there." A five-beat pause. "But let's hope it won't come to that. Calm. Positive attitude. Restraint." Kerr says it like a mantra he's trying to learn -- so much so that it makes us all laugh. Until Carter speaks up.

"If it gets too violent, I still got six acres out on Walter Hill," he says, referring to a plot of land he owns in the country. "I'll take my tent out there, take my long guns with me, put up my tent and stay out there."

"If they come to shoot you, they'll have to hit me first."

"Well, if they shoot through you they'll hit me, 'cause I'll be right there with you."

Digg!    Share on facebook   submit to reddit    Bookmark on Delicious   Stumble This  

Bob Moser is a contributing writer at The Nation, and is the editorial director of The Nation Institute's Investigative Fund.

Liked this story? Get top stories in your inbox each week from AlterNet! Sign up now »


Advertisement
Advertisement

 

Comments Turn comments off sitewide Give us feedback »
Comments closed.
The comments for this story have been closed. Thank you to everyone who participated.
View:
Oh boy!
Posted by: TT2 on Aug 25, 2006 12:23 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Here we go AGAIN!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Oh boy! Posted by: stoneinthestream
» Ha, Ha-very funny link Posted by: psychochurch
» RE: Ha, Ha-very funny link Posted by: libmom
» RE: Ha, Ha-very funny link Posted by: psychochurch
When will folks...
Posted by: Asses of Evil on Aug 25, 2006 1:46 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
recognize that blaming folks for coming over the border is targeting them for something they (people who blame Mexicans) would do, if they wanted to make a living. Having done plenty of construction and hard labor, I know these folks are not just pissing away their money. Anyway, if you're really upset about illegal immigration, question businesses that out of one side of their mouth decry illegal immigration and out of the other are happy to make the extra few $$ an hour off American workers. But don't blame Mexicans who are just trying to pull their families up.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Look one step further Posted by: Artkansas
» RE: Look one step further Posted by: Asses of Evil
And your point is?
Posted by: oneyedjack on Aug 25, 2006 3:44 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Okay,
And the point of this trash piece is?

Frank

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: And your point is? Posted by: wildflower3915
» RE: And your point is? Posted by: Gary74
» RE: And your point is? Posted by: wildflower3915
» RE: And your point is? Posted by: Gary74
I'm sorry, but I still don't get it.
Posted by: Steve Adair on Aug 25, 2006 4:24 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I still don't understand why it's a good thing for millions and millions of immigrants to come to the United States illegally. Why not make it legal for anyone from anywhere to come here to live whenever they please? Is that the way it should be? Should there ever be any restrictions of any kind? What the hell is going on here?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» That'd Be Just Great! Posted by: sirossisofliver
» RE: That'd Be Just Great! Posted by: JohnnyM
» At one time, there were NO restrictions Posted by: chief of okeefe
Interesting Item
Posted by: anothername on Aug 25, 2006 5:27 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In just the few posts above, emotions are obvious. The item centers on one group and that group's reaction to recent immigration issues. This is information that can be used to help sort out the entire immigration process and policy.

The item also pops in a few interesting items, such as the driver's license bill and how America has changed as it tries to control illegal immigration. For the first half of my life (I'm around the half-century mark now), I heard and experienced the opinion that the U.S. was wonderful, in part, because there was free and generally unimpeded movement of people and goods between the fifty states. That no longer holds true, yet I encounter Americans who stay in their one state who believe immigrants, legal or not, are the only people who must provide considerable proof of their birth and of their present lives. Sorry, folks, everyone in America, from Daughters of the American Revolution to the new born child, are now being restricted in their movements, in their job seeking, and in their housing decisions by the U.S. immigration policy.

Change happens and groups rise and fall from favor and power. I accept that. What I insist on, however, is that the type of country we have while I remain somewhat in the majority, produces a legacy that will give me a free and hassle-free life as I age and slip into the minority. What we have in the immigration policies of the past two decades is a society that sows distrust, fear, and suspicion first.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Interesting Item Posted by: toomuchlike
» RE: Interesting Item Posted by: anothername
» RE: Interesting Item Posted by: TT2
A Bad Cultural Change due to Mexicans
Posted by: gellero on Aug 25, 2006 6:05 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Ther are up to an estimated TWENTY MILLION illegal -mostly Mexican- aliens in the country. Who pays for their social services? Education of their numerous offspring? Public services? And what about the cultural paradigm shift? They are not being assimilated like our grandparents. Check out www.vdare.com to read some fist hand accounts. Anybody here ever study history? How did Latin dissapear from Italy?? Think about it. Sorry folks, you can cry about the 'poor suffering' illegals. I have no sympathy. If you want to see how an immigration takeover brought a corrupt, third world style government to a city, read about the city government of Miami. I live here and see it every day. Wait until the whiners give the illegals citizenship, and they vote themselves the Treasury (aka 'social services'). Guess who'll pay?? And the strange part is that the so called progressives (aka 'democrats') seem not only to accept, but encourage the status quo. You all don't think these illegals have depressed the working man's wages? dream on

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

MORE RULING CLASS PROPAGANDA: see the techniques used in this pro-immigration article!!
Posted by: rebel_pig on Aug 25, 2006 6:25 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
THe PseudoLeft propaganda organs disseminate the ruling class message through various techniques. Let's see if we can detect some of these rhetorical techniques used in this article by the The Nation magazine, which is perhaps the leading PseudoLeft media outlet in print.
Here are some quotes from the article:

says Theresa Harmon. Tennessee's most vociferous anti-immigration organizer



"Vociferous", a word often used to describe a wild animal. Get the picture about people who are against mass immigration?

Let's see some more:


Tennessee's toxic anti-immigrant mix


Get the picture?


Welcome to Tennessee, white-hot nexus of the new American nativism.

Nativism is a word that ruling class propagandists have already spent a lot of time demonizing, so therefore just by using the word, this article is able to negatively characterize the anti-immigration grassroots movement.


It also stoked fears among many natives


Get the picture? We are "fearful".


In the state legislature immigration-rights groups still usually have the upper hand.


Gee, I wonder why that is? The majority is against it, but the ruling class is for it? Maybe it has something to do with profit?


Having a Democratic majority in the state House, which generally sticks together on immigration issues, certainly helps -- as does the pro-immigration lobbying muscle of the state's Chambers of Commerce. But on the campaign trail, especially this year, nativism rules.


So the state chamber of commerce is aligned with the Democrats? But when the politicians have to go out and talk to the people, "nativism rules"? Meaning that they have to pretend like they will do as the people want, which is to be against mass immigration. This is the truth, but notice that in this large article, it is confined to just a few sentences. Ruling class propaganda, to be good, HAS TO tell SOME truth. But to accomplish their ruling class neoliberal, business-oriented goals, they bury the truth under a mound of rhetorical techniques that are used to mold public opinion, and most importantly, to shape the idea of what leftism and liberalism really is in the minds of FUTURE leftist activists.



"Every day over 5,700 miles of border stands unsecured," Ford's voice intones solemnly.



"Intones solemnly" is a MOCKING phrase, which lets the reader know that this person--who is speaking against mass immgration-- is not to be taken seriously.

More BELOW:

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» His point still stands. Posted by: YogiBear
Keep It Simple
Posted by: ChristopherLL on Aug 25, 2006 6:45 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Jobs Americans have refused to do for the past forty years:

Work in the Fields
Clean rooms for someone els
Clean offices for someone else
Do dishes for someone else
Do laundry for someone else
Cut lawns and general yardwork for someoneles
Most any kind of manaul labor

Jobs that Americans demand are performed:

See above

Americans who hire the cheapest labor they can find to do the jobs Americans demand to be done but refuse to do: Most

Where is the supply for cheapest labor: Next door

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Keep It Simple Posted by: TT2
Immigration really brings out the ugly Americans
Posted by: supercrisp on Aug 25, 2006 7:55 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
At least of brown folks. Lot’s of people are happy to take these peoples’ cheap labor. I’d like to see laws about hiring enforced--laws we already have on the books--before we do anything else. People should not have to compete with businesses hiring illegal immigrants. Reduced demand means reduced immigration.

I get sick of the racism. Just because somebody is different, brown, Spanish-speaking, whatever, doesn’t mean they’re out to eat your babies--despite what the bigotted Barney Fife crew say. Please turn a deaf ear to those people; they just like to stir up trouble because they are mindless, cowardly fools with persecution complexes.

I grew up in the 70s in West Tennessee, and I heard the same kind of sh*t about blacks living there, that they were out to take my country, rape my mother, chew through my paycheck and so on.

Sometimes I long for something like the UK’s Nationalist Party so we could get all our little Nazi crackers in one place for a good solid tromping at the polls.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Look to the root CAUSES of the immigrant influx! The U.S. Congress for one!
Posted by: fool-on-the-hill on Aug 25, 2006 8:12 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
NAFTA and IIRAIRA, laws passed a decade or more ago by our (?) elected representatives, GUARANTEED the current "immigration crisis"!

Since the passage of NAFTA (which took effect on 1/1/1994), over half a million small businesses in Mexico have failed. Formerly "middle class" Mexicans now have no means of getting ahead in their own country. So they do EXACTLY what our own ancesters did: they come to the U.S.

Before the passage of IIRAIRA ("Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act") in 1996, Mexicans routinely came across the border to harvest crops, etc., AND THEN WENT HOME TO THEIR FAMILIES IN MEXICO. Now, an "illegal" incurs a 3-yr "bar" for staying long enough to complete a harvest (6+ mos), IF S/HE LEAVES. Let me repeat that: illegal immigrants are now PUNISHED FOR LEAVING. If the person stays as long as a year, the bar against returning legally is TEN YEARS --- again, only triggered BY LEAVING.

The results are entirely predictable. NOW, folks are hiking in from Mexico with their whole families AND STAYING. Another predictable result: the crime syndicate along the Mexican border is now the most brutal (and wealthy) in the world. The Russian Mafia are choir boys by comparison.

All of this was created by your own government. Ranting against the immigrants is like blaming New Orleanians for Katrina!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Wow!
Posted by: Ulfhethner on Aug 25, 2006 8:31 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If I have anything that may be perceived as anti-immigrant, even if my argument may be well thought out , I am a racist from the get-go. If I am white, then I am "Homogenous" (as per Moser himself), no matter if my ancestory is of German, Irish, Italian or French (all different by the way). I am guilty by association of mass-murder, colonization, imperialism, globalization, slavery, deforestation, McDonald's, Disneyland, global pollution, Coca-Cola, and what else? Oh boy...

No wonder there are "white supremist" groups with people like Moser telling those of European heritage they are basically imbued with the "original sin" of their skin color and ethnicity (Yes, we have ethnicity despite the denial of our being "of color"). According to Moser's ilk, any Euro-descendant who happens to question the soft totalitarianism of this political correctness, is demonized racist. Wow, thanks for trading the spirit of individual thought for mass-think, Moser. This sounds similar to the chicken-hawk muppet in the White House and his cronies who attempt to squelch any opinions that run counter to their own, even their own generals!

Do you really believe this kind of divisive diatribe will aid in solving the many complex difficulties of our age? I doubt it, and I think it only further alienates the supposed "majority" who are essentially needed for any meaningful dialog to take place.

What a sad divisive article. Sadder still is that most people seem to swallow its presumptions wholesale, and without questioning its foundations.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Wow! Posted by: Ulfhethner
» RE: Wow! Posted by: YogiBear
gathaiga
Posted by: gathaiga on Aug 25, 2006 8:31 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You will never be able to simplify to a level that is understandable to the knuckledraggers. Karma can be the shits.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: gathaiga Posted by: Ulfhethner
the author has obviously never BEEN to a small rural community
Posted by: zooeyhall on Aug 25, 2006 9:10 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Small towns in the midwest "where jobs are plentiful and unemployment is scant" ?!?!!!

The author has certainly never been in my small town in Nebraska, because the truth is the exact opposite!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

There goes the neighborhood. . .
Posted by: monkeywrench on Aug 25, 2006 9:18 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Ten cars parked in the front yard? Sounds like Theresa has been through my neighborhood – except next door in mine, we have 12 cars clogging the streets, two broken-down low-rider crap boxes in their driveway sitting on 8 flat tires, a derelict, rotted-out boat parked in the street, and often a cement mixer in the front yard next door as well. Oh, yeah, and their backyard is WORSE, including old beer bottles, rotting party leftovers, and stinking garbage cans that are usually overflowing, giving us a problem with flies that rivals a swarm of locusts. There are 10 people living in the 3-bedroom house, and two semi gang-banger, rastafarian punks living in the garage (they stay up until all hours blabbing – they don't work – so now we have to sleep with our windows closed – in summer.) And...AND...to add to our joy, we were awakened not long ago by a standoff with the police next door, whereby one of my new neighbor's punk kids was being arrested for assault with a deadly weapon for shooting at someone in the street in front of my house a 2 o'clock in the morning!

I'm not exaggerating or making up any of this – I wish I was.

After 25 years living with good, responsible neighbors of all nationalities who took pride in their homes, this is what I end up with: an invasion from Tonga that has turned a nice house into a crash pad of squalor, and has, or will if I can ever afford to sell and move, cost me thousands – IF I can get anyone to agree to live next to these cretins.

Do we have an immigration problem in the U.S.? From where I find myself right now, DAMN RIGHT WE DO!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: There goes the neighborhood. . . Posted by: monkeywrench
Let's Deal With The Real Issue
Posted by: caranolan on Aug 25, 2006 9:54 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
For every "illegal immigrant" that is not white and doesn't maintain their home, I'm sure we can find a white US citizen whose house & yard looks like trash. Having a crappy neighbor who doesn't take pride in their home has absolutely NOTHING to do with their race or their legal status.

Do we need to secure our borders? YES! Do we need to control immigration? YES! Do we have to turn into racist, prejudice, a**holes to do it? NO!

The roots of the problem are the corporations and consumers who demand cheap labor and cheap products. The point isn't that Americans won't do the jobs illegal immigrants are willing to do, the point is we want to be paid a living wage! Go after the businesses that are hiring the illegal immigrants and paying sub-standard wages, I bet we'll get better results than trying to terrorize illegal immigrants.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

$400 million retirement pckgs, $26 million/yr salaries
Posted by: owlbear1 on Aug 25, 2006 10:13 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
pay raise after pay raise after pay raise. None of that of course is driving the race to slave labor. Nope, its Illegals coming over the border to steal sub-minimum wage jobs.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

So "reconquista" is a myth, eh?? Read on...
Posted by: Pat Kittle on Aug 25, 2006 10:14 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's cute the way Mexicans play dumb when the subject of "reconquista" comes up.

The author of this article call it "mythical."

Well, here's a reality check for anyone who doubts the reality of "reconquista":

Copy & paste & Google: "Interesting Material Found on the Internet"

(The URL is too long to be accepted here, so I can't provide the direct link, but if you do that simple copy & paste, you'll see how "mythical" reconquista is.)

This is the most dishonest article I've ever seen on the AlterNet, which is a very useful website when it's not lying about immigration.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Sad article
Posted by: Gravitas on Aug 25, 2006 10:51 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think this is very sad that we keep repeating the mistakes over and over again, like bigotry and hatred. On the other hand, I agree with Professor Swain that we need dialogue. People are afraid to talk about issues directly and that may push people into xenophobic groups if they feel they are the only option. For instance, I live in an apartment complex with newcomers from all over the world. I try very hard to accept their cultures. I think diversity is the spice of life and each culture has something to add to our society. I especially appreciate "Latino" cultures. Being very community oriented, I find newcomers from Mexico very friendly and always willing to help a person in need. I think we really have something to learn from this culture. However, sometimes my neighbors' lifestyles do clash with mine. Ironically, the biggest clash of all comes from Eastern European folk where half my own ancestors came from in the 1800s. I feel like all the giving and bending is on my part. Sometimes I don't feel like it is even 1% in the other direction. I think people should keep their cultures and not automatically assume the American way of doing things is better. But that does not mean I don't like the way I do things. I don't think they would be selling out their heritage to realize their American neighbors do to things differently and in the interest of compromise, sometimes THEY need to make adjustments too. Not just we are here, now YOU do all the changing. It should be give and take on both sides. But when I talk about this to some of my "liberal" friends I get accused of being a hypocrite. I think we need lots of dialogue on both sides. I think it is great Tennessee has a program to try and diminish stereotypes against newcomers. But how about some programs for newcomers to understand how their new neighbors to things as well. They don't have to assimilate it they don't want to, only have enough understanding of U.S. culture to be able to understand the sensibilities of others.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

The Anti-Immigration Movement is WHERE IT IS AT for true Leftists
Posted by: rebel_pig on Aug 25, 2006 12:55 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The anti immigration movement has great potential for being a catalyst for a resurgence of leftism because at its core are some ideas that have not been in front of Americans for a long time. For example, the idea that the nation should be run for the benefit and according to the desires of the working class people. And this immigration debate has the potential for exposing to most Americans the truth about how the media is on the side of the rich and how it operates to mold public opinion and shapes mores. Also, it has the potential to expose how our American left is not a true left, not one that is about helping the workers and protecting them from the power of the upper class, but one that is about shifting the focus of leftism from a broad based populist base to one that is focused on narrow interest groups.
If you are against the powers that be, then fight against immigration, because the powers that be are arraying their forces against the anti-immgiration movement. Don't let them shape you or program you with their elite-centered mores. Remember this--labor and capital will forever be in conflict, and the TV, radio, newspapers, and nonprofit foundations are tools of capital, so wherever those entities push, push back. Whatever THEY focus on is in THEIR benefit. So ignore it. Whatever they IGNORE, that is likely to be in YOUR benefit, so focus on that.

For example, the media pushes Pat Buchanan as the voice of the anti immigration movement. But Pat is all about culture, not economics, and he is likely to POLARIZE the working classes, and push many workers AWAY from anti-immigration. Also, although I voted for pat for president twice, he is a trojan horse for the upper class. He ruined the Reform Party. Do not support him.

In your anti immigrant activism,focus on the economic and environnmental aspects of mass immigration. And use words, images, history and ideas to fight this battle.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Too much is rarely a good thing
Posted by: veive on Aug 25, 2006 1:17 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It has to do with limits. There was a TV special many years ago called the "Way out men." Part of the program covered an experiment in which some mice were introduced into a confined space. Initially there was plenty of room and all the mice got along together. Over time, more and more mice were gradually introduced. When a "critical mass" of the critters was reached all manner of hell busted loose.

That experiment was indicative of what America's on its way to experiencing. Every society has its limits and a tsunami of immigrants will see our limits reached that much faster. We humans would like to think we're better than mice when it comes to this kind of stuff, but that's mere illusion. Too much pressure inevitably leads to explosions no matter who or what is in the mix.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Reconquista - direct quotes from Mexicans -- still doubt their intent?? [Part I]
Posted by: Pat Kittle on Aug 25, 2006 1:59 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So "reconquista" is just a "myth," is it??

"Reconquista" if you don't already know, is an attitude most Mexicans (here & in Mexico) have toward "taking over" the US. We got a glimpse of their arrogance last spring when millions of these illegals (and their enablers, like the author above) marched through our streets in obnoxious demonstrations with their endless demands and threats.

When they realized how that behavior backfired, overnight they traded their Mexican flags for US flags, thinking we'd be so easily fooled. So lately, the reconquistas are making nice, pretending reconquista itself is just a paranoid fantasy on the part of racist Americans.

In case you think reconquista is a joke, here's a sampling of their quotes:


..."We are pioneers. We might as well be in covered wagons because 10 years from now, this state is brown,'' said Rep. William Delgado (D-Chicago). "We all want the same thing: hot dogs, apple pie and Chevrolet. Teach us the wonderful values that you, that community that might have been 80 percent Irish at one time, have."
-- Chicago Sun-Times - April 27, 2003

". . . we have to fight for our race, we have to find the leaders who represent us."
-- George P. Bush (son of Florida Governor Jeb Bush and his Mexican-born wife Columba, and nephew of the President speaking to a gathering of Hispanics)

"There's a growing feeling 'Why should we pay for all these senior citizens' if the majority of them are white and all they were willing to pay for was prisons?"
-- Rodolfo Acuna (professor of Chicano studies at Cal State Northridge)

"Oh, I know there's some voices who want to wall us off from Mexico"...."...it's so important for us to tear down barriers and walls that might separate Mexico from the U.S."
-- George W. Bush before Hispanic Chamber of Commerce, Albuquerque, NM, 8/15/01

"We have an aging white America.They are not making babies. They are dying. The explosion is in our population... I love it. They are shitting in their pants with fear. I love it."
..."We have got to eliminate the gringo, and what I mean by that is if the worst comes to the worst, we have got to kill him."
-- Professor Jose Angel Gutierrez, University of Texas.

"Remember 187 (proposition to deny taxpayer funds for services to non citizens) was the last gasp of white America in California."
-- Art Torres, Chairman of the California Democratic Party

"In recent years a new International System has been developing, oriented toward the establishment of norms and principles of universal jurisdiction, above national sovereignty, in the areas of what is called the New Agenda...we have to confront ..... what I dare to call the Anglo-Saxon prejudice against the establishment of supra-national organizations."
-- Vicente Fox, to Club XXI, Hotel Eurobuilding, Madrid, Spain 5/16/02

"I have proudly affirmed that the Mexican nation extends beyond the territory enclosed by its borders and that Mexican migrants are an important - a very important - part of this."
-- Former Mexican President Ernesto Zedillo, Chicago on July 23, 1997.

"The American Southwest seems to be slowly returning to the jurisdiction of Mexico without firing a single shot."
-- Excelsior - The national newspaper of Mexico

"We are politicizing every single one of these new citizens that are becoming citizens of this country.I gotta tell you that a lot of people are saying, 'I'm going to go out there and vote because I want to pay them back.'"
-- Gloria Molina, Los Angeles County Supervisor

[Continued in Part II]

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Reconquista - direct quotes from Mexicans -- still doubt their intent?? [Part II]
Posted by: Pat Kittle on Aug 25, 2006 2:02 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[Continued from Part I]:


"California is going to be a Hispanic state, and anyone who doesn't like it should leave. They should go back to Europe."
-- Mario Obledo, co-founder and President of MALDEF, 1968 to 1973; President of the League of United Latin American Citizens 1983-85, California State Secretary of Health, Education and Welfare 1975-82, awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom by Bill Clinton Obledo announced that he would burn the CCIR's "illegal immigration" billboard on 6/27/98, it was subsequently taken down.

"We are practicing La Reconquista in California."
-- Jose Pescador Osuna, Mexican Consul General

"We need to avoid a white backlash by using codes understood by Latinos...non-Latinos aren't watching, they aren't raising questions"
-- Fernando Guerra, professor, Loyola Marymount

On Hispanics becoming the nation's largest minority: "This will be a call to arms," said Dallas lawyer Adelfa Callejo, a longtime advocate and member of the League of United Latin American Citizens. "We must now insist that we be heard. We will not tolerate being ignored anymore."
-- Hector Flores, national president of LULAC, said the latest census report will mean little if it's not backed up by action.

"Republica del Norte," the Republic of the North, which would include the present U.S. states of California, Arizona, New Mexico, Texas, plus southern Colorado, along with several current Mexican states, is "an inevitability." The new "Hispanic homeland" should be brought into being "by any means necessary."
-- Charles Truxillo, professor, University of New Mexico

". . . you are like the generals who command armies! We're in a state of war!"
-- Armando Navarro, professor, University of California.

"They're afraid we're going to take over the governmental institutions and other institutions. They're right. We will take them over. . We are here to stay."
-- Richard Alatorre, Los Angeles City Council

MEChA, < http://gladstone.uoregon.edu/~mecha/plan.html >

"Go back to Boston! Go back to Plymouth Rock, Pilgrims! Get out! We are the future. You are old and tired. Go on. We have beaten you. Leave like beaten rats. You old white people. It is your duty to die. .. Through love of having children, we are going to take over."
-- Augustin Cebeda, Brown Berets.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

¿Reconquista?
Posted by: Mex on Aug 25, 2006 2:50 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is sooooo funny!!

Immigrants with an ilegal status are coming because they need to work to feed their families back home. They are not thinking about the "reconquista" of the lost territory.

By the way, I am Mexican and I live in the USA (legally), and I travel to México very often. And I never, never, heard about a plot to reconquest California, Texas, New Mexico, et al.

Now, about this nativism problem. It is ridiculous the position of some people when they meet, or live, among people with another culture or ethnicity. But politicians..?? Well, maybe I should not be surprised.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: ¿Reconquista? Posted by: MatthewSavage
Shit, I bury my head in shame!
Posted by: real liberal on Aug 25, 2006 3:42 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I did not see that was the previous posters' user name. I am sorry Pat, sincerely I am. I still disagree with your stance on the issue absolutely, but I apologize for misdirecting the debate.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Bad news for the nativists
Posted by: chief of okeefe on Aug 25, 2006 5:09 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The mexicans are mostly descended from Native Peoples ("Indians") of central america. The white folks are descendants of European invaders. Morally, the descendants of the victims of colonial rape and theft have a greater claim to the americas than the descendants of the invaders. That is why I, as a descendant of the invaders, am so glad that the mexicans have never asked me to leave. Their graciousness puts the white "nativists", who are living on stolen land, and have no moral right to complain, to shame.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Bad news for the nativists Posted by: donaldrilea
I love it!
Posted by: doctorsquared on Aug 25, 2006 5:35 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Imagine their indignation, as those rednecks are squirming in their britches about this. But don't worry, peak oil will result in the catastrophic failure of our civilization long before it will be an issue whether Spanish is the state language of CA or AZ.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Pathetic
Posted by: Pirate1 on Aug 25, 2006 7:17 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Peak oil is the least of our problems. People 30 years from now are going to be struggling to adjust to a radically different climate in this part of the world. But I digress...
Humans evolved for the vast majority of their history as a species as a MIGRATORY organism. We were always on the move, following the herds, the seasons, each other. Every so often tho, some would get the idea that they could stay in one place and alter the local environment to support them being stationary. They could "control" an area then... decide who came in. Funny how almost every one of those ancient attempts at what we today call civilization are marked by ruins and often an accompanying degraded environment. Anyway, those collapses were fairly local. What we face in the decades ahead is global and unprecedented. We never learn... when we encounter people who live in balance with nature and have done so for eons, we describe them as primitives or savages and send in the missionaries and time keepers to make them like us. If any survive it will be those who migrate. I admire the Mexicans... how many of those who decry their presence would begin to know HOW to walk all the way from Mexico or Central America to seek what they need to support their families, let alone be willing to do it? Too many of us have allowed ourselves to become fat assed pontificators, parroting what we heard some idiot ranting about on some government sanctioned radio talk show.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» umm...but.... Posted by: Kelly
Blaming the Wrong People
Posted by: sofla100 on Aug 25, 2006 8:40 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The big reason why Mexico is mirred in poverty is directly linked to American policy. NAFTA's goal was to create a ready source of cheap, impoverished labor for US corporations to exploit. The goal being to increase the bottom line of the ruling corporate elite. The richest country in the world runs itself by exploiting an impoverished country like Mexico. Then we wonder when they all want to get out??? As for the working class, the corporate rulers and their puppet politicians devised "free trade" so the entire USA manufacturing sector vaporized into factories in China and India. The working class is left fighting for scraps at the table - $6 an hour at Wal-Marts. And then they are afraid some pathetic and starved illegals will take this away from them. Your pointing at the wrong people, the enemy is the top 5% that owns 75% of Americas assets and money.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Check My Logic
Posted by: Narco-NYC on Aug 26, 2006 12:38 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Please, help me figure this out.
Many of those responding have said that the influx of illegals into the US is the result of NAFTA and that Americans are wrong to oppose the migration of workers into our country. So, if drawn-out the argument might look like this:

NAFTA was wrong, the effects of NAFTA were wrong, therefore illegal immigration is wrong. (False - according to the respondents, they believe NAFTA was wrong but illegals are right).

NAFTA was right, the resulting flow of illegals is right, therefore illegal immigration is right. (False, according to them, they assert that NAFTA was wrong).

Thank you, for any helping me out of my confusion.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Check My Logic Posted by: Lauren
» I agree ^ ^ Posted by: Michelle
Cursing the Sickness Doesn't Work
Posted by: sofla100 on Aug 26, 2006 2:31 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When someone is sick, they take a pill from the doctor or put on a bandage. Illegal immigration is an unfortunate by-product of US policies. It's not something really desirable, but, like being sick, it happens when the "body" is not well. If you have created the problem, you cannot argue when the effect is not what was desired. The problem then becomes that the US really should take responsibility for the illegals if it was involved in creating them. The solution on the right - dogs, machine guns to mow them down, landmines on the border, wacko mercs patrolling the border, isn't the answer. Is this how the right wants to treat little children and mothers? Bottom line, if US policies made sense, Mexico would not be nearly so poor, and illegals would not see the benefit of coming here. Take something as simple as foreign aid. The war in Iraq will cost taxpayers over $1 trillion dollars for nothing. Can you imagine if we had helped Mexico build its infrastructure with 1/10th of that amount. We wouldn't have the problem of illegal immigration now.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Mexico has an open border with us.
Posted by: Lauren on Aug 27, 2006 6:53 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have heard Americans cant buy property in Mexico. That is false, we can. Perhaps our snow birds will start flying to cheap retirement communities and the flow will reverse across the border.


Update on my Border's Bookstores campaign.

Borders still stubornly discriminates solely against Native American religions by segregating only them OUT of the religion section. I say stuborn because I have brought this discriminating behavior to their attention repeatedly without any positive response. To the contrary, last time I called the store to ask if I was still being discriminated against, the clerk laughed at me derisively while he informed me there was no change in their policy. Tisk, tisk.

Their stock value fell recently based on the news of reduced sales. Do you think their blatent anti-Native American religious discrimination (and my random complaining about it) is having an effect on sales? Who knows.

Stay tuned for more details.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Another perspective
Posted by: Elmowilcox on Aug 27, 2006 10:37 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
While searching for some kind of perspective as to exactly why it's not okay for millions of people to illegally immigrate from one place to another, specifically in our own situation(as this is where everyone else wants to be), I got a new perspective on the issue from my American born Nigerian girlfriend. As she sees it, how can one immigrated race of people claim they have a right to be here just because they are attached geographically by land. As she put it..."I"ve got family in Nigeria that has been wait-listed to migrate here for about 5 years, some of them longer than that." In fact, it took her father who came here long ago about 4 years to gain entry to the states. And that really put another spin on the topic to me, South Americans feel that it's okay for them to just come on over because it takes nothing more than a car-ride or a nasty little hike through the desert to get here. There are people in much worse situations in even more worse countries around the globe that are literally dying to be here, but they have to wait to go through the proper channels to do so. Many don't make it.
So I ask my Hispanic friends, is this right? You could make the argument that the massive influx of illegal immigration is partially responsible for the backlog of green cards and visas couldn't you? Is it right for these people to receive a free pass simply because they are attached geographically?
In regards to policy causing the problem, our policies effect countries around the world too, not just Mexico who, by the way, is far better off than say Nigeria or the Congo, how about many of the Eastern European nations that are actually destroyed from years of warring? The argument that they(our southern neighbors) are poor and desolate loses some credibility(that it is an effective argument, not whether it's true) when you take that into consideration.
Either way, both sides on this debate do what everyone always does and neglects to note the inadequacies of their arguments, often writing off seriously genuine concerns as nonsensical or unimportant/nonexistent. On the white people side of this one there is racism, which none of them want to admit, but a large portion of those who are worried about illegal immigration just simply don't like foreigners. On the brown people side of this there is the issue of respect and quality of life that they import right along with the poverty. They come from the slums, and tend to bring that with them here, often turning neighborhoods into mirror images of their hometowns. (Hello Pasadena, TX, I'm looking at you.) I have witnessed, much as the lady in the article, entire neighborhoods that have gone to crap because the occupants have no respect or dignity for their newfound homesteads.
How would Mexicans in Mexico feel if there were 10 million Americans there not speaking a lick of Spanish and taking up jobs that could otherwise go to natives of the country and screaming they have an arbitrary right to be there?
But now I'm just ranting, I just wanted to throw another line of reason into the mix as I've not seen the issue of what other prospective immigrants overseas may think about a Mexican's supposedly inherent "right" to be in America. I would say that ideally yes, we should be able to go where we please, BUT, we are a world of nations with rules and borders, and no, you don't have a right to be here anymore than I have a right to be in Russia or China.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Just one observation to add-
Posted by: axolotl_helix on Aug 27, 2006 11:04 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The politically correct left wing groupmind's framing of any opposition to illegal immigration as racism is equivalent to the politically correct right wing groupmind's framing of any opposition to Israel's behavior as anti-Semitism.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

What if all white people simply disappeared?
Posted by: Pat Kittle on Aug 27, 2006 12:48 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A couple days ago I quoted a long list of Mexican leaders (from a president to Brown Berets) who clearly were gloating (even obscenely gloating!) about how their overbreeding is going to "take over" the US (and polls reveal most Mexicans do believe this).

Despite all that, a Mexican ("Mex") who's lived in Mexican culture on both sides of the border denies ever hearing anything about any of this! How dumb do these reconquistas think we are??

Someone else wants us to believe the idea of human overpopulation is merely "racist nonsense." In his/her words: "...this whole "overbreeding" nonesense [sic]. Easy to say it's not racist when it's not applied to you..."

Well, I DID "apply" it to myself, as it turns out -- I work in conservation. Long ago it was obvious to me the world has plenty enough humans, so I decided not to breed.

Nevertheless, I don't want our species to go extinct (even though we're making a whole lot of other species go extinct), so I'm glad other people are breeding.

Unfortunately, reconquistas (and their obsequious white apologists) seem incapable of making a distinction between "breeding" and "overbreeding," though it should be obvious ~30,000,000 other species would doubtlessly prefer a much smaller human population.

Whites, browns, blacks, rich, poor, you name it, we're ALL wiping out other species at the fastest rate in 65,000,000 years. Human ecological impact is now so overwhelming that even if all white people disappeared and the richest 10% of the remaining human population disappeared, we'd STILL be in the worst mass extinction in 65,000,000 years!

Yes, the way humans treat each other needs to be fixed.

The way humans treat non-humans also needs to be fixed. And that includes reversing our overbreeding. Mexican lust for conquest is nothing less than ecological imperialism, and "progressives" ought to find enough integrity admit that and deal with it.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» "shadow projection" Posted by: Michelle
» you lack basic concepts Posted by: Michelle
» and Posted by: Michelle
Lots of poor in America. Why import more?
Posted by: albrechtkrausse on Aug 27, 2006 3:39 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Having recently driven a long trip across America I can tell you that there are plenty of poor people in the USA that could be criticised by the elites: poor white trash, disenfranchised black people in the south, miserable conditions in Applachia, inner-city derelicts and drug-fiends, and duded-up fake-cowboys in Nashville. Now, some, maybe most, of those people I saw weren't responsible for their plight, being born into those conditions and becoming comfortable in squalor but do you need to add some more poor people into this equation? Should US citizens be concerned with strengtening the middle-class and lifting up the poor instead of importing more 'human capital' to exploit. Especially, 'human capital' that won't learn a common language, values, and carrys over so much machismo, racism, and violence from their culture (bullfights, dog fights, cockfights, prostitution, drug dealing, Catholic exploitation, class system, vicious ruling elites, non-democratic, etc.)

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Immigration - a divisive red herring
Posted by: kogwonton on Aug 27, 2006 4:46 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think most people would have no problem with immigrants, or even guests from other nations if there weren't the phenomena of diving incomes, zero job security, outsourcing, and now the 'Global War on Terror'. There are bigots in the United States, to be sure, but the war on immigration is a deceptive move. We must be careful not to be manipulated by people who see a profit in pitting poor people against poor people. People need to wake up.

Some issues are righteous. Organized crime exploits Americans and illegal immigrants by supplying them as work forces for manufacturers within the US who wish to remain stateside, yet reap the benefits of ‘outsourcing’ at the same time. Organized crime and big business have a common interest, and are both acting in concert to the detriment of our national security – namely our economic security as a people.

Finally, we’ve had this ‘Global War on Terror’ practically shoved down our throats. We’ve seen all manner of nonsensical arguments about immigration, but what legitimate security issues are there to discuss in the face of a ‘Global War on Terror’? Can we seriously discuss the security of the United States, and the destruction of civil liberties thanks to legislation such as the USA Patriot Act, or warrant-less wiretapping (and indefinite detention of citizens and non-citizens alike) while ignoring a border that makes Swiss cheese look solid?

I have nothing against Mexicans or Canadians, although I do feel that Mexican immigrants probably should have done their marching and protesting in Mexico City rather than the streets of the U.S.A. If they had done so they might not have had to come here in the first place.

I do have something against this bogus ‘war on terror’. The United States Constitution is gasping for her last breath thanks to corporate criminals who profit from war as well as the exploitation of labor. The ‘cold war’ is again being waged against organized labor both at home and abroad. American national security has nothing in place to guard against a coup from within, and the American people have seen their real wages drop thanks to ‘free trade’ corporatism while they’ve seen no ‘security’ whether physical or economic. If we are going to be force fed the ‘War on Terror’ and be forced to hand over our Constitutional Rights I think Americans have a right to demand that our borders be 100% secure.

It is a shame that the poor are again being pitted against each other, and the uneducated (and why are they uneducated?) are venting their anger against each other rather than where that anger should be directed. We can keep handing over the remains of our constitutional rights to corporatists, building prisons at the expense of schools, or we can organize and rebuild the power of democracy (and national economic sovereignty) by rebuilding our labor unions and schools.

Fascism is a pathology, not just a form of government. Fascism is identifiable, first and foremost, as the hatred for organized labor, civil rights, and taxation spent for the benefit of the taxed. We cannot afford a multi-tiered legal system in this country as we once had before the civil war. We fought that civil war to keep people from owning people, and to ensure that all citizens enjoyed equal rights and equal protection of law. We now have an interesting situation in which more than 90% of appeals to the 14th amendment (guaranteeing protection of freed slaves from discrimination) in the Supreme Court of the United States have been on behalf of corporations. Corporations are both ‘people’ and ‘property’ under U.S. law, and it is a crime to own a ‘person’ in this nation.

Don’t be fooled. Working Americans and Mexicans have more in common with each other than they do with those that are pilfering the public trust and treasury at this moment.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

"the flames of bigotry are fanned in Tennessee by a plethora of sources --"
Posted by: Gary74 on Aug 29, 2006 12:03 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Like this article.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Nothing Is Constant Except Change
Posted by: hotlipsin61 on Aug 29, 2006 1:09 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm not here to defend the views in this post, but what is going on in Tennessee and throughout the nation's interior is that your cities and neighborhoods are changing. Your cities and towns are being replaced by Hispanics and other immigrants who are filling a void from the young and educated/skilled workers who left for the East or West coasts. Outside the big cities in places like Ohio, Kentucky, North Carolina, Iowa, Alabama, Nebraska and Arkansas people will see a ethnic shift; small towns will not last if they can't replace the young and skilled future workforce of a city.
Many Hispanics are farmers, others aren't; many Midwesterners and Southerners still earn a living in agriculture, and sensing where the jobs and are, they will move next to a meat-packing plant or work in the fields. Stories abound about youths leaving dot towns like Broken Bow, Nebraska because of the lack of jobs-or boredom- to move to Los Angeles or Philadelphia, somewhere where they can recreate themselves.
If anyone has spent time in southern California, drive along U.S. 101 in Ventura County or I-5 north past Santa Clarita and up through the heart of the San Joaquin Valley and see what your state will look like five years from now. Those two highways take you through agricultural cities and towns. Most of the workers/residents are Hispanics.
Fresh with cash and a renewed self-esteem, they'll need a place to spend their money, and Nashville has some appeal to them.
I am from New York, and we've had a head start on the immigration "issue." There's a push-pull effect on American society when something moves in one direction another force will move in the opposite direction. Immigration is no different. As those who can move away, someone will take that person's place. And let's face it: Slaughtering livestock and fowl is tough, mental work and not everyone's cut out to do it. Most slaughterhouses and large-scale farms are located on the outskirts of town-far away from the Starbucks and Blackberry set.
Without these immigrants, New Orleans will still lie in floodwaters, crops won't get picked and homes won't be built. Your immigrants at work. You used to have that kind of job. But you work in an office now. You're dabbling in real estate. Maybe or maybe not. You can't send them back. They'll keep coming, the skilled and the undocumented.
Nothing is constant except change. That's the way of the world.

.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

  • AlterNetYour turn

Support AlterNet
Do you value the information you're getting from AlterNet? Please show your support with a tax-deductible donation.


Feedback
Tell us how we're doing.

Advertisement
Advertisement