Home
Archive
Columnists
Video
Blogs
Discuss
About
Search
Donate
Advertise
Advertisement
Advertisement
Advertisement
Advertisement
Register to Vote: Rock the Vote, powered by Working Assets Wireless
Advertisement
  • AlterNetYour turn

Support AlterNet
Do you value the information you're getting from AlterNet? Please show your support with a tax-deductible donation.


Feedback
Tell us how we're doing.

The Loose Cannon of 9/11

By Michael Slenske, SMITH Magazine. Posted August 21, 2006.


How a 23-year-old Army grunt-turned-film producer is undermining the 9/11 Commission Report with $8,000 and a laptop.
082106story1

Share and save this post:
Digg iconDelicious iconReddit iconFark iconYahoo! iconNewsvine! iconFacebook iconNewsTrust icon

Also in Top Stories

Sleeping Around Craigslist
Anna Reed, Lily Penza, East Bay Express

Bush's Secret Army of Snoops and Snitches
Matthew Rothschild, The Progressive

Michael Pollan on What's Wrong with Environmentalism
Kate Cheney Davidson, Yale Environment 360

A Peak Oil Prophet Imagines Life in America After Wal-Mart
Michelle Nijhuis, Grist.org

Sci-Fi Heroes Take on the System
Roya Rastegar, ColorLines

Billionaires Are Gouging Your Grandparents
Brave New Films, Brave New Films

Online Activists Keep the Pressure on Obama
Ari Melber, TheNation.com

More stories by Michael Slenske

Get AlterNet in
your mailbox!

 
Advertisement

It took two governors, four congressmen, three former White House officials and two special counsels two years to compile. They reviewed over two and half million pages of classified and declassified documents, consulted 1,200 sources in 10 countries, and spent over $15 million of the taxpayers' money in the process. And on July 22, 2004, the 9/11 Commission issued its final report on the terror attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon. Is it possible that two twentysomethings from "a small hippie town that time forgot" could undermine that entire effort with $8,000 and a laptop?

Yes, if you ask ex-Army specialist Korey Rowe. The 23-year-old from Oneonta, New York returned home from two tours -- one to Afghanistan, the other to Iraq -- to help his best friends, Dylan Avery (director) and Jason Bermas (researcher), produce the sensational 80-minute, Web-based documentary "Loose Change," which seeks to establish the government's complicity in the terror attacks by addressing some very tough questions: Why wasn't Ground Zero treated like a crime scene? How did both towers "free-fall" to the ground "in 9.2 seconds" in just under two hours? And where are the black boxes from American Airlines Flight 11 and United Airlines Flight 175?

While the film is admittedly flawed and draws on some dubious new media sources, including Wikipedia, it's inarguably sparked a new interest in the "9/11 Truth movement." Since its April 2005 debut online, "Loose Change" (the first and second edition) has received over 10 million viewings, it was just featured in the August issue of Vanity Fair, and the final cut of the film is expected to debut at the Sundance Film Festival in January.

"I've got four movie studios [including Paramount and Miramax] beating down my door to make the final cut," says Rowe, who's now got offices from California to London to handle his growing company. Last week SMITH caught up with Rowe -- who's been labeled everything from a traitor to a CIA operative in the past year -- to see how he went from protecting the Iraqi-Syrian border against Muslim insurgents to a self-described "conspiracy theorist" poised to take Hollywood (and the country) by storm.

MICHAEL SLENSKE: Do you work for the CIA?

KOREY ROWE: No, I do not work for the CIA.

SLENSKE: Just wanted to get that out of the way. What made you want to join the military?

ROWE: The fact that I was doing nothing. I was 18; I wasn't ready to go to college yet. I knew that if I went to college I wouldn't have spent too much time in class, I would have spent my time partying. I wouldn't have gotten done what I needed to do. It would have been a waste of my parents' money. So I decided it would probably be best if I joined the military -- this was pre-Sept. 11 -- Bush was in office, there wasn't a whole lot going on, I didn't foresee a war happening, I just thought it would be a good way to get out of town, man-up a little, and then move on with the rest of my life. Before I knew it, I just joined.

SLENSKE: Did you want to go to war?

ROWE: At first I did. I wanted to retaliate for Sept. 11. The government told me it was Osama bin Laden, the government told me he was hiding in caves in Afghanistan, they told me he had killed a bunch of innocent Americans, so at first I wanted to go over there and defend just like everyone else. It was the hooah thing to do at the time.

SLENSKE: What were you doing in Afghanistan?

ROWE: My primary MOS (military occupational specialty) was 11 Bravo, which is infantry, frontline infantry. I was carrying a gun, humping a lot of weight on my back. That was what I did in Afghanistan full time. I was at the Kandahar airfield, Bagram, and Khost. But in Afghanistan I really didn't do much. I was there for six months, pulled a lot of guard; I went on, I think, three missions. Never got any enemy contact, never got fired on. I watched it on my perimeter, a couple hundred meters out while someone else was getting shot at, but I never really got any action.

SLENSKE: And in Iraq?

ROWE: In Iraq I rode in the back of a truck from the southern tip, through the desert into Al-Hillah, took the battle of Al-Hillah, which was pretty crazy. It looked like a Vietnam movie. Then we moved further north into Baghdad, where we were in Medical City. I was stationed in an emergency room door for about a month and a half just watching these bodies of children and their families come in. Then I moved north into Mosul, swung west into Sinjar, on the Syrian-Turkey border where we had to watch for insurgents coming across the border.

SLENSKE: How did that experience change you?

ROWE: I went from being some kid who had no idea about anything in the military--I didn't even know what the infantry was when I joined, I just told them I wanted to shoot stuff and blow stuff up -- to being a communications specialist for my commander. That was really when I started to see the bigger picture -- when I started working for higher commanders -- seeing how things ran.

SLENSKE: When was the first time you heard from Dylan Avery about what he was doing with "Loose Change" back in New York?

ROWE: After I got back from Afghanistan, he started to talk about the idea that 9/11 was an inside job, and started letting me know about some of the information he had come across. It was between returning from Afghanistan and redeploying for Iraq that my mind started to click on. I was like, "Wait a minute -- I was in Afghanistan three months ago, and now I'm going to be in Iraq in four months. I've got to invade another country; where is this going?"


Digg!

Michael Slenske writes the "Back Home From Iraq" column for SMITH Magazine.

Liked this story? Get top stories in your inbox each week from AlterNet! Sign up now »


Advertisement

 

Comments Turn comments off sitewide Give us feedback »
Comments closed.
The comments for this story have been closed. Thank you to everyone who participated.
View:
Got an hour free sometime?
Posted by: Aussie Kim on Aug 21, 2006 12:56 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Listen to the talk given by Dr David Ray Griffin on October 12 2005 (also labelled "August 9 2006")at
gunsandbutter.net .

I heard it played on the radio here in Melbourne a few weeks ago and was rivetted for 60 minutes.

I had always thought that even the White House could not have been evil (or clever) enough to have done 9/11 themselves, as per all those rumours, but now I'm definitely not so sure...

» RE: Got an hour free sometime? Posted by: mrcentrist
» what are you afraid of, tc? Posted by: aurora2484
» in the wake of 9/11 Posted by: aurora2484
I'll see it, but why leave in errors?
Posted by: zerogee on Aug 21, 2006 1:00 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'd like to see the movie, however, I am not liking the fact that they feel proud to leave in errors. Saying that the mistakes will cause the viewers to go out and do research for themselves is interesting, since he acknowledges earlier in his comments that he feels the American public will accept any info they are spoonfed by the media. So his movie is going to change that? He calls us sheep, then expects we will pick up on errors in the film and go out and conduct independant research. Can't have it both ways, can we?
Why can't they take the "errors" out? Lazy? Costs too much? Seems like there is another reason (oooh, now I'm a conspiracy theorist, too!) Their film is undermined by saying, "Look at all this evidence, but some of it is just made-up stuff, guess you'll have to decide what's real". Not a real strong argument for their theory or credibility.
But then, I guess we may never know what really happened that day anyway.

» I agree Posted by: WhuThe?!?
Michael Slenske
Posted by: YogiBear on Aug 21, 2006 1:24 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Gotta add that name to my list of "reporters" who feel that presenting more than one side to a story is worth their time. There are probably thousands of of non-government, no-Bush-loving, non conservative folks out there who can point-for-point disprove or at least cast doubt on the so called "facts" in Loose Change. Where the fuck are they in this story?

What a bunch of shit.

» Server overload? Posted by: YinRising
» RE: Server overload? Posted by: donmac
» RE: Michael Slenske Posted by: willymack
» Google Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: Michael Slenske Posted by: dingo
» Puff Posted by: YogiBear
Rebuttal
Posted by: YogiBear on Aug 21, 2006 1:27 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Some links that disprove or cast doubt on much of what this "documentary" has to offer:

http://www.lolloosechange.co.nr/

http://screwloosechange.blogspot.com/

http://screwloosechange.xbehome.com/

http://www.debunking911.com/

» RE: ebuttal Posted by: werewolf
» Afraid to look, eh? Posted by: YogiBear
» RE:Yogi, please look closer Posted by: Techubus
» RE:Let's recap Posted by: Techubus
» on the run but a Quick question Posted by: Conservasaurus
» Some better conspiracy theories Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Let's recap Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: Let's recap Posted by: Techubus
» Closer Look with clear eyes Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Afraid to look, eh? Posted by: billr
» RE: Afraid to look, eh? Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: ebuttal Posted by: ABetterFuture
» RE: ebuttal Posted by: Techubus
» It's interesting. Posted by: ABetterFuture
» RE: ebuttal Posted by: bornxeyed
» http://www.debunking911.com/ Posted by: WhatNow?
» RE: http://www.debunking911.com/ Posted by: elmertwittle
» RE: http://www.hijackingcatastrophe.org/ Posted by: AngryWhiteFemale
believable
Posted by: rsaxto on Aug 21, 2006 1:34 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Because we know we have an administration soaked with lies, deceit and secrecy the basic scenario here is believable. If we have enough people working to find the reality in the various stories about 9/11 then we will find the truth the administration desperately does not want us to find. And they are getting desperate because if the full truth comes out about 9/11 then they are toast in the impeachments that would follow from the real truths. Let the barbeque begin!

» RE: believable Posted by: indy675
Check it out
Posted by: Prismagirl3 on Aug 21, 2006 2:54 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
http://video.google.com/
videoplay?docid=7866929448192753501&hl=en
Here's a Link to it on Google Video, just paste it into your browser as one long line.
Just because they did not work with a multimillion dollar studio and did not recreate all the graphics so their as snazzy as the great ones on the news doesn't mean we have to discount the film. Watch it and take in what you want. The important thing is something fishy happened and we don't know who the fuck did it foreign or not.

» RE: Check it out Posted by: willymack
se Pentagon video & photos
Posted by: Carts on Aug 21, 2006 3:22 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
C'mon how long will it take???

Just check the Pentagon photos and video - no plane!

It was a missile!! no plane wreckage!

How long will it take before you Yanks realise it was a black op?

Bit late now Bush has started World War 3.

we can only hope the Tecumseh curse kicks in again.

With luck, Bush will shoot himself.

Then there will be dancing in the street!!

Scumbag criminals.

» It was a missile!! no plane wreckage! Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE:Sure Posted by: marklar
» RE: Sure Posted by: elmertwittle
» Exactly!!! WHERE is the plane!? Posted by: belldaere
» the strange 9.11 aircraft regos Posted by: aurora2484
» The Wookie was real! Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: The Wookie was real! Posted by: YogiBear
.300
Posted by: schnoggi on Aug 21, 2006 3:40 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
as Timothy Leary said, if a baseball player hits a third of the balls pitched his way he's considered a hero, so if a third of the stuff he writes is any good he's okay with those numbers. if even a TENTH of the questions raised here are valid, then we have a very very serious problem to face.

» Excellent point! Posted by: IntnsRed
Lisa at AngelsForTruth.com
Posted by: AngelsForTruth on Aug 21, 2006 4:08 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Over a period of about 2 years, I had seen allot of information about the 911 coverup. Some of it was hard to see as it "screamed at me" and felt scary. However, "Loose Change 911" really presented the information in a clear, easy to see and understand way.. it does not give all the answers.. but it does punch some BIG holes in the "official" story... and those holes are big enough to wake up most people to start their own research. It helped wake me up. I gave away over 400 copies of the movie.. and then created a website for newbies, that hopefully is to the web what LooseChange 911 is to movies. I believe Dylan, Korey and Jason are Earth Angels. Visit AngelsForTruth.com and see for yourself. I have Angel Ads and flyers on my site to help spread the word to your town about "Loose Change 911" and Angels For Truth.

Shock and awe!
Posted by: williameon on Aug 21, 2006 4:22 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Shock and awe

What did they whisper into Georgie Porgy’s ear at the Elementary school?
Mission Accomplished!!!
Only with full control and cooperation of the media could
they sell this HOAX.
Beware
The
Media
Telling
Lies!

most people want to be spoonfed
Posted by: orwellwasn'tdreaming on Aug 21, 2006 5:05 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The errors aren't going to make people thoughtful and serve as an incentive for them to investigate further; they simply make them say "This is bogus" and ignore the other salient points. I'm a skeptic, and have been skeptical about the entire 9/11 situation--however, the problems with the film created doubt in my mind about the premise (i.e., made me a skeptic). Leave the errors to Bushco, please.

» Case in point Posted by: YogiBear
He's right aobout the public and CNN
Posted by: marklar on Aug 21, 2006 5:08 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
America is fed lies and bullshit through cable tv news and print media. We are living through the image of a mirror. Our perception of reality is so distorted, we know it yet can undertsand it, so we go on with our daily lives as if in a dream.

Great work, Korey - dude, you've my support, whatever the truth
Posted by: Ullern on Aug 21, 2006 5:18 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I repeat: "Loose Change" is great work, if just for asking the questions.

There's so obviously more to 9-11 than meets the eye, that just stirring the official take is in itself useful.

Whatever the truth is, demanding more reason and sanity of the US gov't, and as a side-effect exposing the blatant way 9-11 has been exploited for other gains, cannot be anything but healthy.

Go, go, go!

All three buildings underwent completely different stresses
Posted by: owlbear1 on Aug 21, 2006 5:32 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
and amazingly reacted the same way in each case.

Nope
Posted by: hotar on Aug 21, 2006 5:34 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have no doubt that government ignorance and malfeasance played a big part in the events of 9/11. It has been public knowledge for years that the Bush Administration ignored warnings about terrorist plans to use airliners as weapons. It's also obvious that there have been cover-ups and less-than-honest declarations on the part of the Administration regarding details of these events.

However, there are is a very strong argument against the whole notion of a conspiracy: The simple fact that such a large-scale conspiracy could NEVER, in the face of our government's manifest incompetence, be kept a secret. SOMEONE would leak it to the press. No amount of "evidence" will ever convince me that the Bush Administration could manage to keep a conspiracy of these proportions hidden from the public. Anyone who thinks otherwise OBVIOUSLY has more faith in our government than is reasonable.

» RE: Nope Posted by: neojerk
» RE: Nope Posted by: rhinojos
» RE: Nope Posted by: willymack
» RE: Nope Posted by: RJW
» DUH Posted by: Fade
» RE: DUH Posted by: Maureen E. Mellom
» RE: Nope Posted by: bornxeyed
Bin Laden using his right hand when eating.
Posted by: asterix75 on Aug 21, 2006 6:01 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Its not Bin Laden because he is eating with his right, and he is lefthanded". Its basic knowledge that in the Muslim world you eat with your right hand and use your left hand for the washroom. After having spent time in Iraq and Afghanistan, they should have known this before making fools of themselves by pointing that out.

The Loose Cannon
Posted by: itchyvet on Aug 21, 2006 6:08 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Haven't seen the movie, but am impressed by these young guys efforts to get the sheeple to actually do some thinking of their own, IF such a phenomenum is still possible.

As to the doubters, let's face it people, WE WERE LIED TO BIGTIME with Vietnam, (and I'm a bloody Vet, so rest assured, I'm far more aquainted with the matter then many of the writers on here are) there's scores of South American countries that we WERE LIED TO BIG TIME as well, how can we even forget the lie in Iraq, again by the same Corporate sponsored Govts in America.
None of this is NEW, people, it's been going on since the illegal invasion of the Phillipines many years ago, and it's still rampant today.
If you bother to do some investigating on these issues, you will actually discover that many of these events were carried out in a clandestine manner and always under the auspices of doing good. Problem is, they never told you who they were doing the good for.
I read a huge article the other day regarding PEARL HARBOUR, and listen up folks, if you believe your Government would never consign thousands of your own citizens to the dust bin, I really very strongly suggest you do some research on PEARL HARBOUR, just type in Google and you'll get a host of stuff to follow up, sure it'll take a while to read thru much of it, but if you want the TRUTH, you'll look for it RIGHT ?
Sad to say, what you'll discover will make you see the light as you've never seen it before.
Don't waste to much time though, do it quickly, time is fast running out for these murderous SOB in the Whitehouse, and they WILL IMPLEMENT ANOTHER 9/11 BEFORE THE ELECTION, which will make the original pale in comparision, just to get you on side and scare you shitless to ever even think contrary to the Govt again.
Mark my words, and then the gloves will be off, and you'll all see the truth.
Have a nice day, enjoy it the fullest while it lasts.

» RE: The Loose Cannon Posted by: goldenta
» Truth be told Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: Truth be told Posted by: billr
» RE: Truth be told Posted by: YogiBear
» go itchy vet!!! Posted by: chrisp.
Like gandhi said
Posted by: covalentbonded on Aug 21, 2006 6:43 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
First they ignore you. Media have been ignoring this since 9/12.

Then they ridicule you. Should be obvious

Then they fight you. This is the next step coming. When the disbelief and questions continue to mount there will have to be a "push-back".

Then they join you. In my more optimistic moments I believe this but when the pessimism kicks in, well let's not even go there.

» RE: Like gandhi said Posted by: YogiBear
Watch This Movie
Posted by: Gold9472 on Aug 21, 2006 7:05 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Excellent point!
Posted by: IntnsRed on Aug 21, 2006 7:13 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You make an astute point!

Many of the serious researchers into the events of 9/11 and the infamous month-long anthrax scare (remember, it was the anthrax scare that really "terrorized" the US) regularly point out that all their information may not be true.

I would guess that the Loose Change producers would also bluntly admit that.

» RE: xcellent point! Posted by: bornxeyed
» anthrax origin news item Posted by: aurora2484
A different approach
Posted by: heech on Aug 21, 2006 7:20 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Loose change has many highly dubious claims, as admitted in this review. Leaving errors in to encourage people to go look for themselves is about as unscientific as they come. It serves only to distract from real research into the crimes of 9/11 and to bolster this kid's fame. He claims people are suckers and then expects the suckers to do the work he's refusing to do.

Try this source, 911 Research, for a well reasoned argument in favor of a government conspiracy that makes a point of unravelling poor investigation and fact checking.

Here's a link to their rebuttal of Loose Change Sifting trough Loose Change which endevours to show the looseness of loose change's thinking on many points, not just factual ones.

And this one, that shows many of the things at the Pentagon that loose change ignores: The No Plane Construct

The purpose of the these rebuttals is to do precisely what Loose Change claims they would like us to do ... think about it, find it out for ourselves. But this site goes further, they challenge us to let go of poorly constructed, biased frames of reference and recognize them as undermining the real work that's being done by real scholars to debunk the government's story.

I don't buy this kid's sincerity. Too many contradictions: Michael Moore's film is an embarassment to him, even to admit he saw it is painful, but it made him think, but it was a bad film; he's not concerned about the embarassment he's unleashing to an unwitting public because it will "make them look for themselves"; he wants people to know the truth but decieves them into believing (unless we read this interview) that all of what is in the Loose Change film is worth a look, even the errors -- it is, but why not be truly courageous and drop the more dubious links or show how they are erroneous ... that would bolster his position and focus on the real work being done by serious investigators.

» RE: A different approach Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: A different approach Posted by: heech
» RE: A different approach Posted by: prairiedog
Remember this;
Posted by: ghoster on Aug 21, 2006 7:21 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the american population. Never, pretty amazing isn't it?

» RE: emember this; Posted by: Fade
RJW
Posted by: RJW on Aug 21, 2006 7:31 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Thank you Alternet, the floodgates are officially open.

» RE: Opened Floodgates Posted by: rwa
» RE: Opened Floodgates Posted by: willymack
BEWARE...
Posted by: JohnnyM on Aug 21, 2006 7:32 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...the Neocons and zionists are everywhere.

They're on this site, linking you to other videos that subtlely try to question the "conspiracy," they're talk-show hosts like jon stewart, who masterfully builds his credibility agreeing with some of the "conspiricies" or through some of his guests, but on critical points displays zionist attitudes (he is dangerous and should be off the air). They're obviously all over the news networks (eg cooper 360, the 'billionaire' who wanted to be a reporter(?)), et al. They're everywhere.

Like Rowe says, do your own research. Make your own conclusion.

Unfortunately, news (truth) has become something you need to find yourself, as reporters have sold out. CANCEL your cable/satellite! You cannot rely on any news agency, not even Alternet for the truth anymore. You must go to many sites to paint the picture. Always look for and argue with facts, not opinions. The facts in the 911 case are clear, and this movie points out most of them...

Good job guys.

» Jon Stewart, a neocon plant? Posted by: YogiBear
» My bad Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: BEWARE... Posted by: willymack
"No, I do not work for the CIA"
Posted by: Iconoclast421 on Aug 21, 2006 7:39 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am not satisfied with that answer. What about the NSA? Heh.

I do like the documentary and am glad that it brings 9/11 back to the forefront in people's minds and maybe gets them thinking critically. But the simple fact is that 9/11 justice isn't going to be had through controlled demolition or missing planes at the pentagon.

Yet if you ask anyone about 9/11 conspiracies you'll get, 9 times out of 10, something about controlled demolition or big planes not fitting into small holes. If mainstream opinion is kept revolving around these types of theories, it will all be pointless.

Most of us have seen the video of JFK's head getting knocked back by a bullet. That was proof that it wasn't a lone gunman, because the shot came from a clearly different location.

(Notice we still have people, including many right wing pundits, who can't make this mental connection--they just attack the conspiracy theorists in a juvenile manner.)

Anyway, the point is this proof changed nothing. Regardless of what happened at the wtc and the pentagon, it's not likely to change anything either. Possible yes but not likely. The most it could do is get a new investigation going. And that investigation is going to have to focus on a lot of material that has been glossed over in loose change in favor of the more incredible theories.

To be fair though, they do talk about more than just missiles at the pentagon in loose change. I do think the documentary had an overall positive effect so far, but if people do not investigate things for themselves then this film could end up having the intended "CIA disinfo effect". I don't think it's an accident that so many ask if they work for the CIA. But really, if they did, would they say so? lol

Nearly Empty Twin Towers
Posted by: freerain on Aug 21, 2006 7:51 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Not being from NY or know much about business, I was at first gasping, OMG!, all those people! Since the Towers are the tallest buildings, have room for 50,000 person occupancy EACH I just thought we had lost a city full of souls--

But then, the count came in at 3500 of which a third was service personell on the outside trying to get in to help.

What's wrong with this picture? I researched on the internet also. The Towers were White Elephants in NY City. They were not the High society place to do business, I guess. Their occupancy rate plumetted in the months preceding 911. Larry Silverstein purchased a 99 year lease from the NY Port Authority just months before this tragic event:

From City Journal

"Just seven weeks before the terrorist attacks, the authority reached a deal with Silverstein Properties and Westfield America, which agreed to lease the towers and other authority-owned facilities in the area for $3.2 billion (over 99 years), with $616 million paid up front.

Larry Silverstein would only have to pay the city $25 million yearly in an in-lieu-of-taxes agreement, about $75 million less than what the property taxes would actually be. In addition, the towers could continue to tap low-cost taxpayer-subsidized electricity from the New York Power Authority, saving Silverstein millions a year over what he would pay if he had to buy electricity from Con Ed at market rates. The Port Authority also agreed to use public funds to pay any property taxes in excess of $25 million that Silverstein might incur in the future if New York City ever succeeded in putting the trade center on the property-tax rolls."

So my question has been--Why weren't there MORE casualties? If the buildings had been fully occupied, why weren't they? Why did Silverstein take out "terrorism" insurance immediately upon signing the lease agreement? What did he know? How come so many didn't show up for work on 9/11--who told them to take the day off or work from home? hmmm....questions that have bothered me from 9/11/01

Good job, but there is more to this story. I've posted the video on my web site: Christian Morality

» RE: Nearly Empty Twin Towers Posted by: VinnieT
» People evacuated Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: People evacuated Posted by: Ratskii
his physics is wrong and so is he
Posted by: Jesse on Aug 21, 2006 8:04 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"...you have a 75-story office building untouched by fuel, fire, any debris whatsoever. You have a 30-story chunk above that, which is also untouched. You have the 78th to 82nd floor, which is on fire... You have a 70-something story office building, untouched, unscathed by fuel. You're going to tell me that the steel supposedly weakened, fell on one floor, on top of another floor, on top of another floor, for 78 floors, reaching the ground floor, and fell in 9.2 seconds. 9.2 seconds is the exact rate of freefall for a building that tall, which is 1,368 feet tall."

Um, no.

9.2 seconds of freefall gives 2,708 feet, but given that there is air resistance and such from the substance of the building itself, one would expect to fall the 1,368 feet he cites.

Here is the math:
distance = acceleration * (time in seconds) ^ 2

acceleration = 32 ft/s/s * (9.2 seconds)^2 = 2,708 feet

All this crap about how it is "impossible" for a building to fall that way are based on a lot of wishful thinking and frankly it drives me nuts.

We have an administration that lies. But to argue that somehow they got the entire EMT staff of three cities in on the conspiracy is just plain silly. And it makes assumptions about physics and engineering which sound intuitive to people who don't know about it but in fact are just plain wrong.

Let's take a look at the controlled demolition theory. First, you'd have to get someone to prep the building. "Hi, I'm just cutting a support beam here so the thing falls in a straight line! Don't mind me with all this cutting equipment!" Officer Barbrady would notice this kind of thing.

Next, people assume that a tall building will fall like a bowling pin. They can't--the structure of any building is not solid like a log. Buildings tend to collapse inward – this is why when you look at earthquake photos the houses aren’t all on their sides.

When you remove the supports from one level, the floor above comes crashing down. This is heavy. And the supports below weren’t designed for that, just like if I take a 2 ton weight and drop it on my apartment floor it will go right through even though the floor will support the weight if I gently lower it.

Next, there is the bit about a plane tipping the building over. Here is the math:

Mass of a 747 jumbo jet: 351,535 kg (352 metric tons)
Mass of the WTC tower : approximately 1 000 000 metric tons or about 1 000 000 000 kg

Speed of the plane: max is 940 km/h = about 261 m/s

Total momentum of the plane: 261 * 352,000 kg ~ 92,000,000 m*kg/s

Since the building isn’t moving, its momentum is zero. But the momentum of the plane is conserved. So the total momentum has to be

92 000 000 kg*m/s = (351,535 kg+ 1 000 000 000 kg) * velocity in m/s

velocity = 92 000 000 / 1 000 351 535 = 0.09 m/s

Even if we make generous assumptions about the mass of the plane and the building, any reasonable numbers give you a maximum figure of about 0.1 to 0.2 m/s. The wind moved the building more than that every day.

Saying that the Bush administration benefited from 9/11 and therefore orchestrated it is like saying FDR benefited politically from the Depression so he must have orchestrated an entire worldwide economic collapse.

When the towers went down,