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The Loose Cannon of 9/11

By Michael Slenske, SMITH Magazine. Posted August 21, 2006.


How a 23-year-old Army grunt-turned-film producer is undermining the 9/11 Commission Report with $8,000 and a laptop.
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The Loose Cannon of 9/11

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It took two governors, four congressmen, three former White House officials and two special counsels two years to compile. They reviewed over two and half million pages of classified and declassified documents, consulted 1,200 sources in 10 countries, and spent over $15 million of the taxpayers' money in the process. And on July 22, 2004, the 9/11 Commission issued its final report on the terror attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon. Is it possible that two twentysomethings from "a small hippie town that time forgot" could undermine that entire effort with $8,000 and a laptop?

Yes, if you ask ex-Army specialist Korey Rowe. The 23-year-old from Oneonta, New York returned home from two tours -- one to Afghanistan, the other to Iraq -- to help his best friends, Dylan Avery (director) and Jason Bermas (researcher), produce the sensational 80-minute, Web-based documentary "Loose Change," which seeks to establish the government's complicity in the terror attacks by addressing some very tough questions: Why wasn't Ground Zero treated like a crime scene? How did both towers "free-fall" to the ground "in 9.2 seconds" in just under two hours? And where are the black boxes from American Airlines Flight 11 and United Airlines Flight 175?

While the film is admittedly flawed and draws on some dubious new media sources, including Wikipedia, it's inarguably sparked a new interest in the "9/11 Truth movement." Since its April 2005 debut online, "Loose Change" (the first and second edition) has received over 10 million viewings, it was just featured in the August issue of Vanity Fair, and the final cut of the film is expected to debut at the Sundance Film Festival in January.

"I've got four movie studios [including Paramount and Miramax] beating down my door to make the final cut," says Rowe, who's now got offices from California to London to handle his growing company. Last week SMITH caught up with Rowe -- who's been labeled everything from a traitor to a CIA operative in the past year -- to see how he went from protecting the Iraqi-Syrian border against Muslim insurgents to a self-described "conspiracy theorist" poised to take Hollywood (and the country) by storm.

MICHAEL SLENSKE: Do you work for the CIA?

KOREY ROWE: No, I do not work for the CIA.

SLENSKE: Just wanted to get that out of the way. What made you want to join the military?

ROWE: The fact that I was doing nothing. I was 18; I wasn't ready to go to college yet. I knew that if I went to college I wouldn't have spent too much time in class, I would have spent my time partying. I wouldn't have gotten done what I needed to do. It would have been a waste of my parents' money. So I decided it would probably be best if I joined the military -- this was pre-Sept. 11 -- Bush was in office, there wasn't a whole lot going on, I didn't foresee a war happening, I just thought it would be a good way to get out of town, man-up a little, and then move on with the rest of my life. Before I knew it, I just joined.

SLENSKE: Did you want to go to war?

ROWE: At first I did. I wanted to retaliate for Sept. 11. The government told me it was Osama bin Laden, the government told me he was hiding in caves in Afghanistan, they told me he had killed a bunch of innocent Americans, so at first I wanted to go over there and defend just like everyone else. It was the hooah thing to do at the time.

SLENSKE: What were you doing in Afghanistan?

ROWE: My primary MOS (military occupational specialty) was 11 Bravo, which is infantry, frontline infantry. I was carrying a gun, humping a lot of weight on my back. That was what I did in Afghanistan full time. I was at the Kandahar airfield, Bagram, and Khost. But in Afghanistan I really didn't do much. I was there for six months, pulled a lot of guard; I went on, I think, three missions. Never got any enemy contact, never got fired on. I watched it on my perimeter, a couple hundred meters out while someone else was getting shot at, but I never really got any action.

SLENSKE: And in Iraq?

ROWE: In Iraq I rode in the back of a truck from the southern tip, through the desert into Al-Hillah, took the battle of Al-Hillah, which was pretty crazy. It looked like a Vietnam movie. Then we moved further north into Baghdad, where we were in Medical City. I was stationed in an emergency room door for about a month and a half just watching these bodies of children and their families come in. Then I moved north into Mosul, swung west into Sinjar, on the Syrian-Turkey border where we had to watch for insurgents coming across the border.

SLENSKE: How did that experience change you?

ROWE: I went from being some kid who had no idea about anything in the military--I didn't even know what the infantry was when I joined, I just told them I wanted to shoot stuff and blow stuff up -- to being a communications specialist for my commander. That was really when I started to see the bigger picture -- when I started working for higher commanders -- seeing how things ran.

SLENSKE: When was the first time you heard from Dylan Avery about what he was doing with "Loose Change" back in New York?

ROWE: After I got back from Afghanistan, he started to talk about the idea that 9/11 was an inside job, and started letting me know about some of the information he had come across. It was between returning from Afghanistan and redeploying for Iraq that my mind started to click on. I was like, "Wait a minute -- I was in Afghanistan three months ago, and now I'm going to be in Iraq in four months. I've got to invade another country; where is this going?"

Then -- and I hate to say this -- I saw "Fahrenheit 911," which to me is a terrible movie. But a lot of it made sense in the pretext and military build-up to Afghanistan before we were actually attacked. When I walked out of that movie I was like, "Wow, that messed with my head." Right before I deployed for Iraq, I had the inclination that something was seriously wrong. But then it didn't matter because at that point I had to go. My unit needed me. I was the company RTO (radio telephone operator); I was running communications. It didn't matter what my personal beliefs were. I just had to go over and shut my mouth for another year.

SLENSKE: So why this film?

ROWE: "Loose Change" happened by accident. The whole thing started out as a fictional screenplay about me and Dylan and another friend of ours finding out 9/11 was an inside job. It started out as a comedic action film with us being chased by the FBI and all that. But when Dylan started researching the screenplay, he found out the attacks really were an inside job, so we made it into a documentary. I see myself as a person who's a buffer between conspiracy theorist and military informant, so I thought my help on "Loose Change" would make it a better quality piece, something more mainstream people who aren't into conspiracies could really watch and take in.

I call it the gateway drug because it can take someone totally green to the information -- who believed Muslims carried out 9/11, that the World Trade Center was brought down because of jet fuel, and that the Pentagon was hit by a plane -- you put them in front of this movie, and 80 minutes later they are going to question it at least. Bottom line: They're going to question it. It makes people think. It made me think, so I wanted to make other people think.

SLENSKE: When you got back from Iraq did you know you wanted to go work on the film?

ROWE: No, I went back to work. I was training. That's what you do. When you're not deployed, you're in the rear either fixing your gear or using your gear. I was stationed in Fort Campbell, Ky., the whole four years besides the time I was overseas. When you're back from overseas you get a month off, you clean your gear, and then go fight again.

SLENSKE: Didn't you ever stop and think, "Wait, Dylan is just a kid"?

ROWE: Yeah, several times. I thought, I'm in the military, I know stuff. But Dylan was way more informed than me. Like I said, I'm getting the Army Times, I'm getting the AFN, and now it's out. It's reported that the government spent millions of dollars spinning false articles to newspapers across the world. So who's to say the Armed Forces Network and the Army Times aren't chockfull of bullshit?

SLENSKE: How prevalent is that mindset in the Army?

ROWE: That they know what's going on?

SLENSKE: Yeah?

ROWE: It's 98 percent. It's a fantasy world those people live in. I mean it's really something. I call them infected. They can't come back to civilian life. They're like, "You can't get out of the Army, you ain't gonna get no job, you ain't gonna do nothing. You gonna work at Burger King. What are you gonna do at Burger King? You still wear a uniform; you still get a haircut at Burger King. So why don't you just stay in the Army, join up, sign again, get $6,000." If you don't reenlist, they just make you sit in a chair. They made me sit in a chair for a week. Sit in that chair until you reenlist. I just sat there. "You want me to sit in this chair," I said, "I'll sit in this chair for a month, because in a month I'm out of here."

SLENSKE: When you came back, was there anything that really bothered you about the American public?

ROWE: Yeah, their ability to believe the B.S. they see on TV. They're so in tune with their television and CNN and Fox News and the New York Post. They watch the news and the news reporter, whoever it is, forms an opinion for them. Take the release of the Pentagon video. CNN had been bashing conspiracies all day because people kept writing in about conspiracy theories. They build it up for two hours, then they show the video, then Jamie McIntyre, who we actually use in our video says, "All right, there's the plane, you can see it. There's the vapor trail, and there's the explosion. They only shoot in half-second frames; it's the only shot of the Pentagon. We'll be right back to cover more of this. This is undisputed proof that a plane hit the Pentagon."

They go to commercial, and instead of coming back and going to Flight 77, they go to "American Idol." They just implant the idea, there's Jamie McIntyre saying he sees a 757 flying into the Pentagon, and then they switch to "American Idol." So then when someone says there's no plane that hit the Pentagon, someone else can say, "That's not true; I watched CNN this afternoon. Jamie McIntyre saw the plane; he showed me." People believe anything because it's on CNN.

SLENSKE: What do you think about the Popular Mechanics cover story about "Debunking 9/11 Myths"?

ROWE: That's a good article. It covers some good information, but it directly takes away from some of the facts. It states that NATO scrambled planes at one time that could've intercepted the planes but couldn't because they couldn't reach them in time. That's bullshit. That article reports they only would've had to have flown at 24 percent of their full-blower, and an F15 flies at 1,800 mph. You're telling me when the first plane was hijacked at 8:20 a.m. until 9:45, when the plane was flown into the Pentagon, you're telling me that not one F-15 could be scrambled and taken down one of those planes. Not to mention the ("Debunking 9/11 Myths") piece stands on the Nova theory (the "Pancake Theory") that one floor collapsed on another floor creating a succession of collapses where the towers fell.

If that's true, you have a 75-story office building untouched by fuel, fire, any debris whatsoever. You have a 30-story chunk above that, which is also untouched. You have the 78th to 82nd floor, which is on fire. Think about that. You have a 70-something story office building, untouched, unscathed by fuel. You're going to tell me that the steel supposedly weakened, fell on one floor, on top of another floor, on top of another floor, for 78 floors, reaching the ground floor, and fell in 9.2 seconds. 9.2 seconds is the exact rate of freefall for a building that tall, which is 1,368 feet tall.

If you take Galileo's Law of Falling Bodies and you calculate the distance by the time it takes to fall, it's 9.2 seconds. That means that all those floors fell without any resistance from any of those untouched floors below it. It's completely impossible. Not only do you have to do that, you just have to watch the collapse of the towers. You can see the bombs going off. It is so obvious. It's an umbrella theory. You blow up the top to conceal what's going on beneath it.

SLENSKE: The "Blair Witch Project" also looked real to people who were in on the documentary preceding it. It totally worked. The first time you watch it, it grabs you. But "Loose Change" isn't meant to be fictional. It's a watchable film, but what do you expect people to do with it?

ROWE: What I encourage people to do is go out and research it themselves. We don't ever come out and say that everything we say is 100 percent. We know there are errors in the documentary, and we've actually left them in there so that people discredit us and do the research for themselves -- the B52 (remarked to have flown into the Empire State Building), the use of Wikipedia, things like that. We left them in there so people will want to discredit us and go out and research the events yourself and come up with your own conclusions. That's our whole goal, to make Americans think. To wake up from the 16 amps of your television to watch something and get a passion in something again.

And that's what America has always been about. From the Vietnam protests … it's always been about a passion. And now we're trying to build that passion in people, to wake up, to stop watching television, to stop reading the crappy newspapers, and go online and find those declassified documents. Go find the scientists that aren't young filmmakers, but the ones after Steven E. Jones at BYU, who has steel from the World Trade Center and has conducted tests on the steel. And it's come to the point, over and over again, that what they (the 9-11 Commission) say can't be true. That it had to be brought down by controlled demolition. Our whole goal is to wake Americans up to do something about it.

SLENSKE: What do you say to people who'd say you're doing this to make a dollar?

ROWE: You should see my dilapidated house in upstate New York. I drive a Ford F-150 that has a tape player. We sell DVDs, we make money, but we just give the shit away because we don't want to be war profiteers. We're not about making money on the whole thing -- we're about getting information out. That's why we've turned down seven figures, more than once, from people looking to buy our film and put it in theaters -- because they don't care about it. They only see the moneymaking aspect of it.

We want to make sure it's handled correctly. That the movie gets out 100 percent accurate when it comes out in theaters, because it's obviously not now, and that it's projected in the right light so people aren't threatened by it. If we coordinate 500 theaters across the country to start playing it, it's going to start a wave. We're going to have a whole weekend of events on 9/11 just to raise awareness among New Yorkers so that we can try to get an independent investigation to look back into the facts that every news agency in the world has ignored. Americans are going to be pissed.

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Michael Slenske writes the "Back Home From Iraq" column for SMITH Magazine.

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View:
Got an hour free sometime?
Posted by: Aussie Kim on Aug 21, 2006 12:56 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Listen to the talk given by Dr David Ray Griffin on October 12 2005 (also labelled "August 9 2006")at
gunsandbutter.net .

I heard it played on the radio here in Melbourne a few weeks ago and was rivetted for 60 minutes.

I had always thought that even the White House could not have been evil (or clever) enough to have done 9/11 themselves, as per all those rumours, but now I'm definitely not so sure...

» RE: Got an hour free sometime? Posted by: mrcentrist
» what are you afraid of, tc? Posted by: aurora2484
» in the wake of 9/11 Posted by: aurora2484
I'll see it, but why leave in errors?
Posted by: zerogee on Aug 21, 2006 1:00 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'd like to see the movie, however, I am not liking the fact that they feel proud to leave in errors. Saying that the mistakes will cause the viewers to go out and do research for themselves is interesting, since he acknowledges earlier in his comments that he feels the American public will accept any info they are spoonfed by the media. So his movie is going to change that? He calls us sheep, then expects we will pick up on errors in the film and go out and conduct independant research. Can't have it both ways, can we?
Why can't they take the "errors" out? Lazy? Costs too much? Seems like there is another reason (oooh, now I'm a conspiracy theorist, too!) Their film is undermined by saying, "Look at all this evidence, but some of it is just made-up stuff, guess you'll have to decide what's real". Not a real strong argument for their theory or credibility.
But then, I guess we may never know what really happened that day anyway.

» I agree Posted by: WhuThe?!?
Michael Slenske
Posted by: YogiBear on Aug 21, 2006 1:24 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Gotta add that name to my list of "reporters" who feel that presenting more than one side to a story is worth their time. There are probably thousands of of non-government, no-Bush-loving, non conservative folks out there who can point-for-point disprove or at least cast doubt on the so called "facts" in Loose Change. Where the fuck are they in this story?

What a bunch of shit.

» Server overload? Posted by: YinRising
» RE: Server overload? Posted by: donmac
» RE: Michael Slenske Posted by: willymack
» Google Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: Michael Slenske Posted by: dingo
» Puff Posted by: YogiBear
Rebuttal
Posted by: YogiBear on Aug 21, 2006 1:27 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Some links that disprove or cast doubt on much of what this "documentary" has to offer:

http://www.lolloosechange.co.nr/

http://screwloosechange.blogspot.com/

http://screwloosechange.xbehome.com/

http://www.debunking911.com/

» RE: ebuttal Posted by: werewolf
» Afraid to look, eh? Posted by: YogiBear
» RE:Yogi, please look closer Posted by: Techubus
» RE:Let's recap Posted by: Techubus
» on the run but a Quick question Posted by: Conservasaurus
» Some better conspiracy theories Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Let's recap Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: Let's recap Posted by: Techubus
» Closer Look with clear eyes Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Afraid to look, eh? Posted by: billr
» RE: Afraid to look, eh? Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: ebuttal Posted by: ABetterFuture
» RE: ebuttal Posted by: Techubus
» It's interesting. Posted by: ABetterFuture
» RE: ebuttal Posted by: bornxeyed
» http://www.debunking911.com/ Posted by: WhatNow?
» RE: http://www.debunking911.com/ Posted by: elmertwittle
» RE: http://www.hijackingcatastrophe.org/ Posted by: AngryWhiteFemale
believable
Posted by: rsaxto on Aug 21, 2006 1:34 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Because we know we have an administration soaked with lies, deceit and secrecy the basic scenario here is believable. If we have enough people working to find the reality in the various stories about 9/11 then we will find the truth the administration desperately does not want us to find. And they are getting desperate because if the full truth comes out about 9/11 then they are toast in the impeachments that would follow from the real truths. Let the barbeque begin!

» RE: believable Posted by: indy675
Check it out
Posted by: Prismagirl3 on Aug 21, 2006 2:54 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
http://video.google.com/
videoplay?docid=7866929448192753501&hl=en
Here's a Link to it on Google Video, just paste it into your browser as one long line.
Just because they did not work with a multimillion dollar studio and did not recreate all the graphics so their as snazzy as the great ones on the news doesn't mean we have to discount the film. Watch it and take in what you want. The important thing is something fishy happened and we don't know who the fuck did it foreign or not.

» RE: Check it out Posted by: willymack
se Pentagon video & photos
Posted by: Carts on Aug 21, 2006 3:22 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
C'mon how long will it take???

Just check the Pentagon photos and video - no plane!

It was a missile!! no plane wreckage!

How long will it take before you Yanks realise it was a black op?

Bit late now Bush has started World War 3.

we can only hope the Tecumseh curse kicks in again.

With luck, Bush will shoot himself.

Then there will be dancing in the street!!

Scumbag criminals.

» It was a missile!! no plane wreckage! Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE:Sure Posted by: marklar
» RE: Sure Posted by: elmertwittle
» Exactly!!! WHERE is the plane!? Posted by: belldaere
» the strange 9.11 aircraft regos Posted by: aurora2484
» The Wookie was real! Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: The Wookie was real! Posted by: YogiBear
.300
Posted by: schnoggi on Aug 21, 2006 3:40 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
as Timothy Leary said, if a baseball player hits a third of the balls pitched his way he's considered a hero, so if a third of the stuff he writes is any good he's okay with those numbers. if even a TENTH of the questions raised here are valid, then we have a very very serious problem to face.

» Excellent point! Posted by: IntnsRed
Lisa at AngelsForTruth.com
Posted by: AngelsForTruth on Aug 21, 2006 4:08 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Over a period of about 2 years, I had seen allot of information about the 911 coverup. Some of it was hard to see as it "screamed at me" and felt scary. However, "Loose Change 911" really presented the information in a clear, easy to see and understand way.. it does not give all the answers.. but it does punch some BIG holes in the "official" story... and those holes are big enough to wake up most people to start their own research. It helped wake me up. I gave away over 400 copies of the movie.. and then created a website for newbies, that hopefully is to the web what LooseChange 911 is to movies. I believe Dylan, Korey and Jason are Earth Angels. Visit AngelsForTruth.com and see for yourself. I have Angel Ads and flyers on my site to help spread the word to your town about "Loose Change 911" and Angels For Truth.

Shock and awe!
Posted by: williameon on Aug 21, 2006 4:22 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Shock and awe

What did they whisper into Georgie Porgy’s ear at the Elementary school?
Mission Accomplished!!!
Only with full control and cooperation of the media could
they sell this HOAX.
Beware
The
Media
Telling
Lies!

most people want to be spoonfed
Posted by: orwellwasn'tdreaming on Aug 21, 2006 5:05 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The errors aren't going to make people thoughtful and serve as an incentive for them to investigate further; they simply make them say "This is bogus" and ignore the other salient points. I'm a skeptic, and have been skeptical about the entire 9/11 situation--however, the problems with the film created doubt in my mind about the premise (i.e., made me a skeptic). Leave the errors to Bushco, please.

» Case in point Posted by: YogiBear
He's right aobout the public and CNN
Posted by: marklar on Aug 21, 2006 5:08 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
America is fed lies and bullshit through cable tv news and print media. We are living through the image of a mirror. Our perception of reality is so distorted, we know it yet can undertsand it, so we go on with our daily lives as if in a dream.

Great work, Korey - dude, you've my support, whatever the truth
Posted by: Ullern on Aug 21, 2006 5:18 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I repeat: "Loose Change" is great work, if just for asking the questions.

There's so obviously more to 9-11 than meets the eye, that just stirring the official take is in itself useful.

Whatever the truth is, demanding more reason and sanity of the US gov't, and as a side-effect exposing the blatant way 9-11 has been exploited for other gains, cannot be anything but healthy.

Go, go, go!

All three buildings underwent completely different stresses
Posted by: owlbear1 on Aug 21, 2006 5:32 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
and amazingly reacted the same way in each case.

Nope
Posted by: hotar on Aug 21, 2006 5:34 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have no doubt that government ignorance and malfeasance played a big part in the events of 9/11. It has been public knowledge for years that the Bush Administration ignored warnings about terrorist plans to use airliners as weapons. It's also obvious that there have been cover-ups and less-than-honest declarations on the part of the Administration regarding details of these events.

However, there are is a very strong argument against the whole notion of a conspiracy: The simple fact that such a large-scale conspiracy could NEVER, in the face of our government's manifest incompetence, be kept a secret. SOMEONE would leak it to the press. No amount of "evidence" will ever convince me that the Bush Administration could manage to keep a conspiracy of these proportions hidden from the public. Anyone who thinks otherwise OBVIOUSLY has more faith in our government than is reasonable.

» RE: Nope Posted by: neojerk
» RE: Nope Posted by: rhinojos
» RE: Nope Posted by: willymack
» RE: Nope Posted by: RJW
» DUH Posted by: Fade
» RE: DUH Posted by: Maureen E. Mellom
» RE: Nope Posted by: bornxeyed
Bin Laden using his right hand when eating.
Posted by: asterix75 on Aug 21, 2006 6:01 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Its not Bin Laden because he is eating with his right, and he is lefthanded". Its basic knowledge that in the Muslim world you eat with your right hand and use your left hand for the washroom. After having spent time in Iraq and Afghanistan, they should have known this before making fools of themselves by pointing that out.

The Loose Cannon
Posted by: itchyvet on Aug 21, 2006 6:08 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Haven't seen the movie, but am impressed by these young guys efforts to get the sheeple to actually do some thinking of their own, IF such a phenomenum is still possible.

As to the doubters, let's face it people, WE WERE LIED TO BIGTIME with Vietnam, (and I'm a bloody Vet, so rest assured, I'm far more aquainted with the matter then many of the writers on here are) there's scores of South American countries that we WERE LIED TO BIG TIME as well, how can we even forget the lie in Iraq, again by the same Corporate sponsored Govts in America.
None of this is NEW, people, it's been going on since the illegal invasion of the Phillipines many years ago, and it's still rampant today.
If you bother to do some investigating on these issues, you will actually discover that many of these events were carried out in a clandestine manner and always under the auspices of doing good. Problem is, they never told you who they were doing the good for.
I read a huge article the other day regarding PEARL HARBOUR, and listen up folks, if you believe your Government would never consign thousands of your own citizens to the dust bin, I really very strongly suggest you do some research on PEARL HARBOUR, just type in Google and you'll get a host of stuff to follow up, sure it'll take a while to read thru much of it, but if you want the TRUTH, you'll look for it RIGHT ?
Sad to say, what you'll discover will make you see the light as you've never seen it before.
Don't waste to much time though, do it quickly, time is fast running out for these murderous SOB in the Whitehouse, and they WILL IMPLEMENT ANOTHER 9/11 BEFORE THE ELECTION, which will make the original pale in comparision, just to get you on side and scare you shitless to ever even think contrary to the Govt again.
Mark my words, and then the gloves will be off, and you'll all see the truth.
Have a nice day, enjoy it the fullest while it lasts.

» RE: The Loose Cannon Posted by: goldenta
» Truth be told Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: Truth be told Posted by: billr
» RE: Truth be told Posted by: YogiBear
» go itchy vet!!! Posted by: chrisp.
Like gandhi said
Posted by: covalentbonded on Aug 21, 2006 6:43 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
First they ignore you. Media have been ignoring this since 9/12.

Then they ridicule you. Should be obvious

Then they fight you. This is the next step coming. When the disbelief and questions continue to mount there will have to be a "push-back".

Then they join you. In my more optimistic moments I believe this but when the pessimism kicks in, well let's not even go there.

» RE: Like gandhi said Posted by: YogiBear
Watch This Movie
Posted by: Gold9472 on Aug 21, 2006 7:05 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Excellent point!
Posted by: IntnsRed on Aug 21, 2006 7:13 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You make an astute point!

Many of the serious researchers into the events of 9/11 and the infamous month-long anthrax scare (remember, it was the anthrax scare that really "terrorized" the US) regularly point out that all their information may not be true.

I would guess that the Loose Change producers would also bluntly admit that.

» RE: xcellent point! Posted by: bornxeyed
» anthrax origin news item Posted by: aurora2484
A different approach
Posted by: heech on Aug 21, 2006 7:20 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Loose change has many highly dubious claims, as admitted in this review. Leaving errors in to encourage people to go look for themselves is about as unscientific as they come. It serves only to distract from real research into the crimes of 9/11 and to bolster this kid's fame. He claims people are suckers and then expects the suckers to do the work he's refusing to do.

Try this source, 911 Research, for a well reasoned argument in favor of a government conspiracy that makes a point of unravelling poor investigation and fact checking.

Here's a link to their rebuttal of Loose Change Sifting trough Loose Change which endevours to show the looseness of loose change's thinking on many points, not just factual ones.

And this one, that shows many of the things at the Pentagon that loose change ignores: The No Plane Construct

The purpose of the these rebuttals is to do precisely what Loose Change claims they would like us to do ... think about it, find it out for ourselves. But this site goes further, they challenge us to let go of poorly constructed, biased frames of reference and recognize them as undermining the real work that's being done by real scholars to debunk the government's story.

I don't buy this kid's sincerity. Too many contradictions: Michael Moore's film is an embarassment to him, even to admit he saw it is painful, but it made him think, but it was a bad film; he's not concerned about the embarassment he's unleashing to an unwitting public because it will "make them look for themselves"; he wants people to know the truth but decieves them into believing (unless we read this interview) that all of what is in the Loose Change film is worth a look, even the errors -- it is, but why not be truly courageous and drop the more dubious links or show how they are erroneous ... that would bolster his position and focus on the real work being done by serious investigators.

» RE: A different approach Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: A different approach Posted by: heech
» RE: A different approach Posted by: prairiedog
Remember this;
Posted by: ghoster on Aug 21, 2006 7:21 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the american population. Never, pretty amazing isn't it?

» RE: emember this; Posted by: Fade
RJW
Posted by: RJW on Aug 21, 2006 7:31 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Thank you Alternet, the floodgates are officially open.

» RE: Opened Floodgates Posted by: rwa
» RE: Opened Floodgates Posted by: willymack
BEWARE...
Posted by: JohnnyM on Aug 21, 2006 7:32 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...the Neocons and zionists are everywhere.

They're on this site, linking you to other videos that subtlely try to question the "conspiracy," they're talk-show hosts like jon stewart, who masterfully builds his credibility agreeing with some of the "conspiricies" or through some of his guests, but on critical points displays zionist attitudes (he is dangerous and should be off the air). They're obviously all over the news networks (eg cooper 360, the 'billionaire' who wanted to be a reporter(?)), et al. They're everywhere.

Like Rowe says, do your own research. Make your own conclusion.

Unfortunately, news (truth) has become something you need to find yourself, as reporters have sold out. CANCEL your cable/satellite! You cannot rely on any news agency, not even Alternet for the truth anymore. You must go to many sites to paint the picture. Always look for and argue with facts, not opinions. The facts in the 911 case are clear, and this movie points out most of them...

Good job guys.

» Jon Stewart, a neocon plant? Posted by: YogiBear
» My bad Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: BEWARE... Posted by: willymack
"No, I do not work for the CIA"
Posted by: Iconoclast421 on Aug 21, 2006 7:39 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am not satisfied with that answer. What about the NSA? Heh.

I do like the documentary and am glad that it brings 9/11 back to the forefront in people's minds and maybe gets them thinking critically. But the simple fact is that 9/11 justice isn't going to be had through controlled demolition or missing planes at the pentagon.

Yet if you ask anyone about 9/11 conspiracies you'll get, 9 times out of 10, something about controlled demolition or big planes not fitting into small holes. If mainstream opinion is kept revolving around these types of theories, it will all be pointless.

Most of us have seen the video of JFK's head getting knocked back by a bullet. That was proof that it wasn't a lone gunman, because the shot came from a clearly different location.

(Notice we still have people, including many right wing pundits, who can't make this mental connection--they just attack the conspiracy theorists in a juvenile manner.)

Anyway, the point is this proof changed nothing. Regardless of what happened at the wtc and the pentagon, it's not likely to change anything either. Possible yes but not likely. The most it could do is get a new investigation going. And that investigation is going to have to focus on a lot of material that has been glossed over in loose change in favor of the more incredible theories.

To be fair though, they do talk about more than just missiles at the pentagon in loose change. I do think the documentary had an overall positive effect so far, but if people do not investigate things for themselves then this film could end up having the intended "CIA disinfo effect". I don't think it's an accident that so many ask if they work for the CIA. But really, if they did, would they say so? lol

Nearly Empty Twin Towers
Posted by: freerain on Aug 21, 2006 7:51 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Not being from NY or know much about business, I was at first gasping, OMG!, all those people! Since the Towers are the tallest buildings, have room for 50,000 person occupancy EACH I just thought we had lost a city full of souls--

But then, the count came in at 3500 of which a third was service personell on the outside trying to get in to help.

What's wrong with this picture? I researched on the internet also. The Towers were White Elephants in NY City. They were not the High society place to do business, I guess. Their occupancy rate plumetted in the months preceding 911. Larry Silverstein purchased a 99 year lease from the NY Port Authority just months before this tragic event:

From City Journal

"Just seven weeks before the terrorist attacks, the authority reached a deal with Silverstein Properties and Westfield America, which agreed to lease the towers and other authority-owned facilities in the area for $3.2 billion (over 99 years), with $616 million paid up front.

Larry Silverstein would only have to pay the city $25 million yearly in an in-lieu-of-taxes agreement, about $75 million less than what the property taxes would actually be. In addition, the towers could continue to tap low-cost taxpayer-subsidized electricity from the New York Power Authority, saving Silverstein millions a year over what he would pay if he had to buy electricity from Con Ed at market rates. The Port Authority also agreed to use public funds to pay any property taxes in excess of $25 million that Silverstein might incur in the future if New York City ever succeeded in putting the trade center on the property-tax rolls."

So my question has been--Why weren't there MORE casualties? If the buildings had been fully occupied, why weren't they? Why did Silverstein take out "terrorism" insurance immediately upon signing the lease agreement? What did he know? How come so many didn't show up for work on 9/11--who told them to take the day off or work from home? hmmm....questions that have bothered me from 9/11/01

Good job, but there is more to this story. I've posted the video on my web site: Christian Morality

» RE: Nearly Empty Twin Towers Posted by: VinnieT
» People evacuated Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: People evacuated Posted by: Ratskii
his physics is wrong and so is he
Posted by: Jesse on Aug 21, 2006 8:04 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"...you have a 75-story office building untouched by fuel, fire, any debris whatsoever. You have a 30-story chunk above that, which is also untouched. You have the 78th to 82nd floor, which is on fire... You have a 70-something story office building, untouched, unscathed by fuel. You're going to tell me that the steel supposedly weakened, fell on one floor, on top of another floor, on top of another floor, for 78 floors, reaching the ground floor, and fell in 9.2 seconds. 9.2 seconds is the exact rate of freefall for a building that tall, which is 1,368 feet tall."

Um, no.

9.2 seconds of freefall gives 2,708 feet, but given that there is air resistance and such from the substance of the building itself, one would expect to fall the 1,368 feet he cites.

Here is the math:
distance = acceleration * (time in seconds) ^ 2

acceleration = 32 ft/s/s * (9.2 seconds)^2 = 2,708 feet

All this crap about how it is "impossible" for a building to fall that way are based on a lot of wishful thinking and frankly it drives me nuts.

We have an administration that lies. But to argue that somehow they got the entire EMT staff of three cities in on the conspiracy is just plain silly. And it makes assumptions about physics and engineering which sound intuitive to people who don't know about it but in fact are just plain wrong.

Let's take a look at the controlled demolition theory. First, you'd have to get someone to prep the building. "Hi, I'm just cutting a support beam here so the thing falls in a straight line! Don't mind me with all this cutting equipment!" Officer Barbrady would notice this kind of thing.

Next, people assume that a tall building will fall like a bowling pin. They can't--the structure of any building is not solid like a log. Buildings tend to collapse inward – this is why when you look at earthquake photos the houses aren’t all on their sides.

When you remove the supports from one level, the floor above comes crashing down. This is heavy. And the supports below weren’t designed for that, just like if I take a 2 ton weight and drop it on my apartment floor it will go right through even though the floor will support the weight if I gently lower it.

Next, there is the bit about a plane tipping the building over. Here is the math:

Mass of a 747 jumbo jet: 351,535 kg (352 metric tons)
Mass of the WTC tower : approximately 1 000 000 metric tons or about 1 000 000 000 kg

Speed of the plane: max is 940 km/h = about 261 m/s

Total momentum of the plane: 261 * 352,000 kg ~ 92,000,000 m*kg/s

Since the building isn’t moving, its momentum is zero. But the momentum of the plane is conserved. So the total momentum has to be

92 000 000 kg*m/s = (351,535 kg+ 1 000 000 000 kg) * velocity in m/s

velocity = 92 000 000 / 1 000 351 535 = 0.09 m/s

Even if we make generous assumptions about the mass of the plane and the building, any reasonable numbers give you a maximum figure of about 0.1 to 0.2 m/s. The wind moved the building more than that every day.

Saying that the Bush administration benefited from 9/11 and therefore orchestrated it is like saying FDR benefited politically from the Depression so he must have orchestrated an entire worldwide economic collapse.

When the towers went down, unlike a controlled demolition, thousands of tons of steel slammed into the adjacent buildings. (After all, the stuff didn’t disappear). Add a fire and you get a building collapse. The pile of debris covered an area that was really, really big relative to the original footprint of the buildings.

But all this is secondary—I am tired of trying to point out to people this kind of stuff.

» So much more sense Posted by: Krusty Geezer
» RE: So much more sense Posted by: YogiBear
» and your point is? Posted by: 50566
» Ad hom Posted by: YogiBear
Demand the Truth - Senior Govt. Officials
Posted by: AlanMiller on Aug 21, 2006 8:17 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Tragically, five years after 9/11, we still do not have a truthful account of the incident. Tom Kean and Lee Hamilton, co-chairmen of the 9/11 Commission admitted in their new book, just published this week, that they were repeatedly lied to by the Pentagon, NORAD, and the FAA. Kean went so far as to say this week, "We to this day don’t know why NORAD told us what they told us."

Dozens of highly respected senior U.S. and foreign government officials, senior intelligence officers, senior military officers, and industry experts have expressed their strenuous doubts about the veracity of the official 9/11 Commission report. 18 of them are listed below and on continued posts with links to their quotes .

For the sake of those who died on 9/11, their families, and the American people, please demand the truth.

Senior U.S. Government Officials

Morgan Reynolds, PhD – Chief Economist, U.S. Department of Labor under George W. Bush 2001-2003. Former Director of the Criminal Justice Center at the National Center for Policy Analysis. Professor Emeritus, Economics, Texas A&M University

o Video: “I first began to suspect that 9/11 was in inside job when the Bush-Cheney Administration invaded Iraq. … We can prove that the government’s story is false.” Click here to link
o Essay: "It is hard to exaggerate the importance of a scientific debate over the cause(s) of the collapse of the twin towers and building 7. If the official wisdom on the collapses is wrong, as I believe it is, then policy based on such erroneous engineering analysis is not likely prove to be sound." Click here to link

Paul Craig Roberts, PhD - “Father” of Reaganomics, Assistant Secretary of the U.S. Treasury under Ronald Reagan, Former Associate Editor of the Wall Street Journal, Currently Research Fellow at the Hoover Institution, Stanford University

o Essay: “We know that it is strictly impossible for any building, much less steel columned buildings, to “pancake” at free fall speed. Therefore, it is a non-controversial fact that the official explanation of the collapse of the WTC buildings is false.” Click here to link


Catherine Austin Fitts, Assistant Secretary of Housing under George H.W. Bush. Former Managing Director and Member of the Board of Directors of the Wall Street investment bank, Dillon, Read & Co.

o Essay: “The first category of people who benefited were those who are guilty and complicit in designing, implementing and financing the 9-11 operation. On such a sophisticated and successful covert operation, the people responsible would have had budgets and financing and would have organized the operation to maximize their political and financial benefits.” Click here to link
o Signatory: Petition requesting an immediate reinvestigation of 9/11 Click here to link


Philip J. Berg, Esquire, Former Deputy Attorney General, Pennsylvania

o Signatory: Petition requesting an immediate reinvestigation of 9/11 Click here to link
o Article: “The official story of what actually took place on 9-11 is a lie,” Click here to link

See "Demand the Truth - More Senior Govt. Officials" for more.

Jeff
Posted by: jpetty on Aug 21, 2006 8:17 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Thanks for the interview. I found out about the movie in a July VF article, and watched it on line. Most people do not have the time to do any additional research, but given the whole of the movie, a conspiracy within the highest levels of government is certainly possible. If you begin leaning this way, many other events come into question, such as the 2000 and 2004 elections, the activities of our allies, such as the UK and even some of the decisions made by Clinton. Conspiracies are scary within a society, because they erode the publics chosen beliefs and concept of self. No one wants to believe they’ve been duped, and we have seen people adamantly defend falsehoods because they do not want to look like a dumb ass. As Winston Churchill once said “during times of war the truth is the first casualty”. This movie will ultimately change nothing, as the march of the lemming goes on.

Loose Change Gets Every Single Claim Wrong.
Posted by: Gravy on Aug 21, 2006 8:18 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Not only is “Loose Change” not 100% accurate, it is 100% inaccurate. I’ve spent a lot of time analyzing each claim in the movie. I found 81 errors of fact, and 356 other errors. Every single material claim is wrong, and many of them are horribly, laughably wrong, as if not a single minute was spent on fact checking. I’ve written a 146-page critique of the video.
View it here online as HTML
http://www.ccdominoes.com/lc/LooseChangeGuide.html

Or download the 5 Mb .doc file here
http://tinyurl.com/epp82

Note: the critique will be updated to reflect recent changes to “Loose Change 2nd Edition.”

In addition, my compilation of interviews “Loose Change Creators Speak” is often shocking in the disrespect it reveals for the victims of 9/11. (Korey Rowe appears in it primarily in the long excerpts from the Air America Phoenix interview.) View it here. http://tinyurl.com/s8ouv

Conspiracy of Silence Post911
Posted by: DoctorAndy on Aug 21, 2006 8:21 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The most damaging conspiracy re:911 is the conspiracy of SILENCE by our elite and traditional media during the past FIVE years. One can surmise that these powers-that-be KNEW the truth by 2003 at least, but nary a scintilla of discussion by newspapers or the many radio and TV talk shows. Apparently our suffocating elite KNOW that even calling someone a conspiracy nut tends to raise the issue for discussion...which can't be tolerated.

Demand the Truth - More Senior Govt Officials
Posted by: AlanMiller on Aug 21, 2006 8:45 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
More Senior U.S. Government Officials

Edward L. Peck, Deputy Director of the White House Task Force on Terrorism under Ronald Reagan. U.S. Ambassador and Chief of Mission to Iraq (1977-80). 32-year veteran of the U.S Foreign Service.

o Signatory: Petition requesting an immediate reinvestigation of 9/11 Click here to link


Morton Goulder, Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for Intelligence and Warning 1973-77 (Nixon, Ford, and Carter) Founder of Sanders Associates

o Signatory: Petition requesting an immediate reinvestigation of 9/11 Click here to link


William Christison, Former National Intelligence Officer and Director of the CIA's Office of Regional and Political Analysis. 29-year CIA veteran

o Essay: “I now think there is persuasive evidence that the events of September did not unfold as the Bush administration and the 9/11 Commission would have us believe. … An airliner almost certainly did not hit The Pentagon. … The North and South Towers of the World Trade Center almost certainly did not collapse and fall to earth because hijacked aircraft hit them.” Click here to link


Col. Ronald D. Ray, USAF (ret) - Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense during the Reagan Administration and a highly decorated Vietnam veteran.

o Article: “The former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense under the Reagan Administration and a highly decorated Vietnam veteran and Colonel has gone on the record to voice his doubts about the official story of 9/11 - calling it ‘the dog that doesn't hunt.’ ‘I'm astounded that the conspiracy theory advanced by the administration could in fact be true and the evidence does not seem to suggest that's accurate,’ he said.” Please note the following link has been split up in order to be accepted by this website. http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/ ***BREAK*** july2006/010706doesnthunt.htm "


Ray McGovern, Former Chairman, National Intelligence Estimates (CIA), responsible for preparing the President’ Daily Brief (PDB) to Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush. 27-year CIA veteran

o Signatory: Petition requesting an immediate reinvestigation of 9/11 Click here to link
o Video: “I think at simplest terms, there’s a cover-up. The 9/11 report is a joke. The question is: What’s being covered up? Is it gross malfeasance, gross negligence, misfeasance? … Now there are a whole bunch of unanswered questions. And the reason they’re unanswered is because this administration will not answer the questions. … I just want to reassert, what Scott [Ritter, former Major in the U.S. Marines Corp, former Chief Weapons Inspector for the United Nations Special Commission in Iraq] said and this is the bottom line for me, just as Hitler in 1933 cynically exploited the burning of the parliament building, the Reichstag, this is exactly what our President did in exploiting 9/11. The cynical way in which he played on our trauma, used it to justify attacking, making a war of aggression on a country that he knew had nothing to do with 9/11. That suffices for me, I think Scott is exactly right, that’s certainly an impeachable offense." This video can be seen at Google video. Please note the following link has been split up in order to be accepted by this website. http://video.google.com/ ***BREAK*** videoplay?docid=1232419751782017310& ***BREAK*** q=%22ray+mcgovern%22&hl=en

See "Demand the Truth - Intelligence and Military Officers" for more

» Good work AlanMiller. Posted by: Mein Bush
» RE: Good work AlanMiller. Posted by: aurora2484
Cheney's Following Orders.
Posted by: saywhat on Aug 21, 2006 8:47 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It’s obvious the U.S. Government cooperated fully with the plot of 9/11. But were we the instigators? I doubt it. Cheney’s just following orders. We’ll probably never know who was really behind it. But lets get those traitors to the United States out of public office. And in Jail.

» RE: Cheney's role Posted by: aurora2484
» What's the difference? Posted by: williameon
Demand the Truth - Military and Intelligence Officers
Posted by: AlanMiller on Aug 21, 2006 8:50 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Col. Robert Bowman, PhD, USAF (ret) - Director of Advanced Space Programs Development “Star Wars Program” under Presidents Ford, Carter and Reagan. U.S. Air Force fighter pilot with over 100 combat missions. (PhD in Aeronautics and Nuclear Engineering, CalTech).

o Video: “A lot of these pieces of information, taken together, prove that the official story, the official conspiracy theory of 9/11 is a bunch of hogwash. It’s impossible. … There’s a second group of facts having to do with the cover up. … Who gained from 9/11? Who covered up crucial information about 9/11? And who put out the patently false stories about 9/11 in the first place? When you take those three things together, I think the case is pretty clear that it’s highly placed individuals in the administration with all roads passing through Dick Cheney. I think the very kindest thing that we can say about George W. Bush and all the people in the U.S. Government that have been involved in this massive cover-up, the very kindest thing we can say is that they were aware of impending attacks and let them happen. Now some people will say that’s much too kind, however even that is high treason and conspiracy and to commit murder.” Please note the following link has been broken in order to be accepted by this website. http://video.google.com/videoplay? ***BREAK*** docid=-6900065571556128674


Col. George Nelson USAF (ret) – Former U.S. Air Force aircraft crash investigation authority

o Essay: “The government alleges that four wide-body airliners crashed on the morning of September 11 2001, resulting in the deaths of more than 3,000 human beings, yet not one piece of hard aircraft evidence has been produced in an attempt to positively identify any of the four aircraft. ...

With all the evidence readily available at the Pentagon crash site, any unbiased rational investigator could only conclude that a Boeing 757 did not fly into the Pentagon as alleged.

Similarly, with all the evidence available at the Pennsylvania crash site, it was most doubtful that a passenger airliner caused the obvious hole in the ground and certainly not the Boeing 757 as alleged. ...

As painful and heartbreaking as was the loss of innocent lives and the lingering health problems of thousands more, a most troublesome and nightmarish probability remains that so many Americans appear to be involved in the most heinous conspiracy in our country's history. Click here to link


Melvin Goodman, Division Chief and Senior Analyst at the Office of Soviet Affairs, CIA,1966 to 1990. Senior Analyst at the Bureau of Intelligence and Research, State Department, 1974 to 1976.

o Testimony: “I want to talk about the [9/11] Commission itself, about the flawed process of the Commission and finally about the conflict of interest within the Commission that is extremely important to understand.” Please note the following link has been broken in order to be accepted by this website. http://reprehensor.gnn.tv/blogs/10410/ ***BREAK*** Mel_Goodman_July_22nd_2005_morning_remarks "> Link

See "Demand the Truth - Foreign Intelligence and Military Leaders" for more.

Demand the Truth - Foreign Intelligence and Military Leaders
Posted by: AlanMiller on Aug 21, 2006 8:12 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Paul Hellyer – Former Minister of National Defense of Canada. Former Deputy Prime Minister. Former Member of House of Commons

o Audio: Regarding 9/11 “I think the inquiry has been very shallow, very superficial. I would like to see a much tougher, more in-depth inquiry. … I would like to see someone in a position of authority ask those questions and insist on getting answers, at least to why some of the things happened that seem to be, for an ordinary person, inexplicable. … We have to try and get the truth. … I hope that somebody has the courage and persistence to keep at it until we get it.” Click here to link


Andreas Von Bulow, PhD – Former National Minister of Defense of Germany. Former Minister of Technology. Former Member of Bundestag (Parliament)

o Video: “The official story is so inadequate and far-fetched that there must be another one. Click here to link
o Article/Interview: “The planning of the attacks was technically and organizationally a master achievement. To hijack four huge airplanes within a few minutes and within one hour, to drive them into their targets, with complicated flight maneuvers! This is unthinkable, without years-long support from secret apparatuses of the state and industry.” Click here to link


Michael Meacher – Former Under Secretary for Industry, Former Under Secretary for Health and Social Security, Minister for the Environment, and Member of the House of Commons (Parliament) (United Kingdom)

o Video: Regarding the 9/11 Commission Report “It was a 580-page avoidance of any serious explanation. … The official investigative report says the US has never been able to find the sources of financing for 9/11. And then they say this “That after all is a matter of no great importance.” I find that astonishing. It is a matter of absolutely central importance. So there was a very great deal of evidence. And it seems to me extraordinary that the United States with its stupendous military capabilities and the most technologically advanced country in the world completely and totally failed to follow up on these leads.” Click here to link


General Leonid Ivashov - Former Chief of Staff of the Russian armed forces on 9/11/2001, and Department Chief for General affairs in the Soviet Union's Ministry of Defense.

o Essay: Regarding 9/11 “Only secret services and their current chiefs – or those retired but still having influence inside the state organizations – have the ability to plan, organize and conduct an operation of such magnitude.” Click here to link


David Shayler - Former Counter-Terrorism Officer, MI5 (Britain)

o Video: “The available evidence indicates that people in key positions in the FBI, the State Department, the CIA and so on were not loyal to the Constitution; that they saw an opportunity in plans laid down by genuine Islamic terrorists to carry out an operation that would shock the world and would therefore justify U.S. adventurism in the middle East, particularly in Afghanistan and Iraq." Click here to link

See "Demand the Truth - Industry Experts" for more

Demand the Truth - Industry Experts
Posted by: AlanMiller on Aug 21, 2006 8:04 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Industry Experts

Kevin Ryan - Former Site Manager of the Environmental Health Laboratories at South Bend, a division of Underwriter Laboratories (UL), the company which certified the steel which went into the WTC buildings prior to and during their construction and inspected it after the WTC collapses in 2001.

o Letter to National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) 11/11/04: “I'm aware of UL's attempts to help [with the analysis of the Twin Towers collapse], including performing tests on models of the floor assemblies. But the results of these tests appear to indicate that the buildings should have easily withstood the thermal stress caused by pools of burning jet fuel. … I think we can all agree that even un-fireproofed steel will not melt until reaching red-hot temperatures of nearly 3000F. The results of your recently published metallurgical tests seem to clear things up, and support your team's August 2003 update as detailed by the Associated Press, in which you were ready to "rule out weak steel as a contributing factor in the collapse." … Your comments suggest that the steel was probably exposed to temperatures of only about 500F (250C), which is what one might expect from a thermodynamic analysis of the situation.

However the summary of the new NIST report seems to ignore your findings, as it suggests that these low temperatures caused exposed bits of the building’s steel core to "soften and buckle." Additionally this summary states that the perimeter columns softened, yet your findings make clear that "most perimeter panels (157 of 160) saw no temperature above 250C." To soften steel for the purposes of forging, normally temperatures need to be above 1100C. However, this new summary report suggests that much lower temperatures were be able to not only soften the steel in a matter of minutes, but lead to rapid structural collapse. This story just does not add up”. Click here to link

o Essay: 4/23/06 “The 9/11 Commission not only failed to help us understand what happened; it also omitted or distorted most of the facts. … The bottom line is that, after more than four years, it is still impossible for the government even to begin to explain the primary events that drive this War on Terrorism.” Click here to link

Rocky and Bullwinkle were not really animals
Posted by: marklar on Aug 21, 2006 9:05 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The were animated cartoon characters made to look like animal that talked English and had funny little escapades of good versu evil. No doubt a CIA plot to fight communism during the Cold Ware era.

Alternet makes a Charlatan into a Hero
Posted by: Alternuts on Aug 21, 2006 9:07 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The last miniscule shred of credibility Alternet possessed has just been flushed down the toilet. These "Loose Change" idiots are frauds - this is a fact that has been proven many times by credible journalists, bloggers, and other publications. Avery, Rowe and company have no qualms about lying to the faces of the families of the victims themselves and telling them their loved ones were murdered by the government. Shameless lying as a means to discredit ideological opponents - that's the common denominator. So it is fitting that this fool should be lionized by Alternet as both share the same Middle Eastern conspiracy theory mentality. Birds of a feather flock together I suppose.

» RE: PHYSICS 101 Posted by: DoctorAndy
» RE: PHYSICS 101 Posted by: nickptar
I Believe!
Posted by: Tink50 on Aug 21, 2006 10:22 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There are to many facts that were covered up about the 9/11 terrible event. In June there was a sympossium on this very subject. I was fortunate enough to see this sympossium on CSPAN about a month ago. http://www.americanscholarssymposium.org/
This was about investigations and findings about 9/11.
Before I watched this sympossium I had already learned many new facts about 9/11 other than the garbage fed to me by propaganda tv news stations.
Do you ever wonder why they quit showing the twin tower?
Or why the government made up the stories about heros bringing down a plane that was shot down to keep it from hitting the White House?
Or what happened to the emergency calls that came in about a few minutes before the planes crashed into the World Trade Centers about workers that were coming up from the basement burned from explosions?
All these things were on tv at one time or another and somehow disappeared through the last few years. With all of the events through this reign of terror of our government how can you not open your eyes and look and listen and then question why. This terror is happening still with our government and yes in our life time. This government has taken our rights away, made a rescue mission (katrina) into a nightmare and has stripped this country of its wealth. I DO BELIEVE OUR GOVERNMENT IS RESPONSIBLE FOR 9/11. Tink 50

Why the naivete?
Posted by: kenhymes on Aug 21, 2006 10:26 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why are people so naive about this stuff? There have been plenty of disclosures under the FOA about past plans to cause false terrorist events in the US, going back to the Vietnam era.

Why would it be unthinkable?

The technical arguments are over my head, and don't impress me all that much anyway. The real trail is in the massive heaps of convenient coincidences. Here's one, which I can only attest is my direct personal experience, call me a liar or a fraud all day long, I know where I was and what I heard: I personally heard the rumors (at an elementary school, oddly enough, in Charlottesville VA), during the days before the attack, that military personnel at the National Ground Intelligence Center were being warned by their colleagues with higher security clearances not to fly commercially on the 11th. Get what you just read?: BEFORE the attacks, people knew something was coming, that is undeniable. So... why? How? and who?

So please stop trying to shut people up. This was a huge betrayal, the details of which we may never know. But the official version is bullshit.

» RE: Why the naivete? Posted by: elmertwittle
Sylvan
Posted by: Booker on Aug 21, 2006 10:33 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why is Alternet promulgating this nonsense? Korey Rowe is laughing all the way to the bank. Supporting this craziness just plays into the hands of the necons. We don't need to lie or make stuff up to fight BushCo. This brain-dead crap just kills our credibility.

» RE: Sylvan Posted by: Krusty Geezer
» RE: Sylvan Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: Sylvan Posted by: willymack
» Wing dings on parade Posted by: marklar
» Ad hom, again Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: Ad hom, again Posted by: bahB
» And again Posted by: YogiBear
Another video: CIA in the drug business, more on 9/11
Posted by: writer33 on Aug 21, 2006 10:59 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid
=8797525979024486145&q

It is a presentation by a Mike Ruppert, a former LAPD investigator who charges, among other things, that the CIA is in the drug business. Why? To provide cashflow for an American economy on the verge of economic collapse. And documentation he gives leading to 9/11.

Copy and paste to your browser. Advisory: it is more than two hours long.

Hooray for AlterNet! Do more articles like this one!
Posted by: kellysgarden on Aug 21, 2006 11:36 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Now if we could only get AlterNet to do an article by David Ray Griffin, or Steven E. Jones!

Crossing the Rubicon . .
Posted by: FauxPorteno on Aug 21, 2006 12:09 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Anyone looking for a great read that is high in verifiable quotes and White House press releases and low on speculation and conspiracy theories needs to read "Crossing the Rubicon" by Michael Ruppert. Ruppert doesn't need conspiracy theories to debunk the official story - he uses White House F-ups, lies and blunders to catch this administration with its pants down on MANY occasions. Where most people should be looking but fail to investigate thoroughly are the timelines released by NORAD, The White House and the FAA. Three contradictory timelines and tons of firsthand accounts attest to the fact that Cheney and Rumsfeld were in the loop LONG before they would have us believe and are proof enought that Bushco, at the very least, allowed 9/11 to happen.

The war games being conducted that day are another sure tip off. How convenient that most jets were conducting war games that were more appropriate circa the Soviet era. The JCOS has still failed to name a person who was overseeing all the war games that day and NORAD will not explain why they have revised their timeline to such extremes that in some instances they tack on over one hour of "not being in the know" when in 2001 over 65 "intercepts" were successfully conducted with jets scrambled in usually 10 minutes or less. That day none of the jets were flying (as mentioned by Loose Change author) at more than half of their max. speed of 1800 mph and were deployed from bases that were so inappropriate as to be insulting to Americans - Americans who read or give a shit that is. Check this book out and let the timelines speak for themselves.

I just saw Loose Change
Posted by: cold2touch on Aug 21, 2006 12:26 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
and by and large, it checks out. There were a 1-2 instances where I wasn't quite sure what they were talking about but the fact is, it basically compiles what has been uncovered and debated by other witnesses and investigators.
But the most damning is not the tale of conspiracy so much as the few very pertinent questions raised that can under no circumstances be explained by official explanations.

For example: the hole(s) blown in Pentagon walls in no way account for the shape of a Boeing 757, the impact of wings and engines is completely missing, debris is likewise missing and couple of "pieces" are carted off by FAA staff with bare hands right there on CNN even though FAA claims that the heat of the jet fuel completely obliterated any traces of giant titanium Rolls-Royce engines (Titanium has melting point way higher than the maximum burning temperature of carbon based fuel of 1100 Centigrade). In fact, the grass in front of point of impact wasn't even scorched - again, no fishwives tale, see it on CNN. That is some impressive grass, top secret GMO stuff, too bad you can't smoke it.

Another example: the famous "'free" fall of the Twin Towers.
First off, they were the first steel buildings in history to collapse due to fire. Instances abound of such buildings subjected to sustained 3-alarm fires in Caracas/Venezuela, Madrid/Spain, Philadelphia/PA that raged for hours or even days, yet did not collapse.
Twin Towers collapsed inside an hour, allegedly due to fuel burning at 1100C, even though the high grade structural steel is designed to withstand several hours of higher temperatures without deforming.
And then the whole thing goes into a free fall, without any resistance at all due to construction that involved over 200 thousand tons of steel and 450 thousand cu. yards of concrete, 9.5 seconds.

To ignore such very basic facts and accuse the film makers of twisting facts and spouting bullshit is beyond belief - posters that say it are illiterate morons, without knowledge of Grade 10 physics.

And this is only scratching the surface of what comes out when viewed cumulatively.

9/11 was an inside job - how, why - I don't know, but I do know with 100% certainty that it ain't a band of Arab goatherders.

If you have nothing to hide...
Posted by: Gregor on Aug 21, 2006 12:27 PM   
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If the government had nothing to hide, why do they not come forth in openess and honesty and explain what the heck they are doing? I am not talking government secrets here, but they could just do a decent explanation, where everyone was, what they thought it was, etc. A little insight from them would balance the scales. This government is so wrapped up in secrecy, not one person can believe them.

Corey Is laughing All the Way to the Bank
Posted by: davidt on Aug 21, 2006 12:39 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If he is how come you can see the film for FREE on http://www.seeloosechange.com.

I did.

Well, let me have it, I am waiting.

David T. Gray
Claremont, NH

Why the anti Michael Moore stuff?
Posted by: babs on Aug 21, 2006 1:03 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm astounded at all the Americans on this forum that insist on insulting Michael Moore.

If more yanks had listened to the lone voice that was warning about Bushco, even before the 2000 coup, America wouldn't be in the giant mess they are now. Moore is a genuine patriot (despite what W says) - and one of the only people with enough courage to question the government right from the beginning.

Now you're all on the bandwagon (finally!) and yet you discount the one American who gave the rest of the world hope and proved that he wasn't a Survivor/Fox clone that would eat any crap that they were fed by the "free" press. Or were most of you too young or stupid to remember five or six years ago?

and to quote the man himself "Shame on you".

» RE: Why the anti Michael Moore stuff? Posted by: dangerouslysane
» RE: I quite agree Posted by: cold2touch
More on LAPD investigator Mike Ruppert, who has left the USA
Posted by: writer33 on Aug 21, 2006 1:14 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/
ww3/081606_burning_bridge.shtml

Meant to post this with my earlier post on former LAPD drug investigator Mike Ruppert, on the more than 2-hour video from Portland State University. This browser site is Ruppert's goodbye to the US for his own safety. He left the US on Aug. 18, according to his message here. He makes some deeply-troubling observations about our government as a result of his offices being ransacked and computers mostly destroyed.

Similar to the Moon landing disbelief
Posted by: Astro on Aug 21, 2006 1:27 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm an astronomer. I'm often asked if I really believe men landed on the Moon. I cite a number of reasons why I believe it happened. One is, "If they faked it, why did they fake it SIX times? Wouldn't one have been enough?" That's how I feel about this blowing up the WTC thing. Why blow both of them?
Wouldn't one have suited the conspirators' purposes?

I also say to doubters that if the Moon landings were fake, they'd have needed to "deep-six" thousand to keep it quiet.
IMHO, the same would have been necessary for the WTC
event had it been faked. Who are the thousands who
were deep-sixed to hush-up the WTC event?

Think about it!

Astro

» Slightly tangential, but... Posted by: doctorsquared
» RE: Slightly tangential, but... Posted by: bornxeyed
Award Winnng
Posted by: mfelger12 on Aug 21, 2006 2:01 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
GREAT expose' ... should be winner at ALL film festivals!
mrf

V for Vendetta...with just a few changes.
Posted by: gonzoskismet on Aug 21, 2006 2:47 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Remember, remember
the 11th of September,
the treasonous plot
that day.
And how the powerful few
stood silent but knew
that our nation they
would betray.

Remember, America, that the Constitution does not protect you from evil. Remember that fear is as much an enemy as terror and that you can be infected with it like the flu. Remember that 'Power corrupts' and that you can loose your fragile birthright in the blink of an eye if you let the fearmongers back you into a corner. Remember that George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, etc. have not lost a drop of blood, a family member or a nights sleep for the fallen in this 'War on Terra.' Remember the 11th of September, America. But, in the words of FDR, Remember it as a 'Day of Infamy' when your own government turned against you to accomplish the mission of the PNAC.

I can believe radical things, but this...?
Posted by: CCCP_Kai on Aug 21, 2006 3:14 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Are you telling me that our government had the audacity and no problem killing 3,000 of it's own people yet would let a video like this slip out without just killing those three?

The fact that they are alive disproves the whole thing.

Good hearts and effort but
Posted by: fifthworld on Aug 21, 2006 3:55 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I would have liked a different approach for to engage the skeptics, deniers, and plain apathetics. Focusing on even ONE detail, with scientific data and evidence and conclusions, as there is now much out there, would have been a less whirwind presentation. This is why I like information from, say, the scholars for 9/11 truth, Stephen Jones et al. Or Ruppert's "legal" case overall in his book Crossing the Rubicon. A little over-done at times but excellent overall.

Nonetheless, truth will out - and I'm not talking Kennedy-decades. We're in a different time -- great, pugnacious secrecy, but also a stirring in (or despite??) the popular attention.

an down we go
Posted by: john henry on Aug 21, 2006 4:56 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
now you can not take a country over that is yours to comand you must make the people take the flag down an put new one up now you create adeal so all of the people will spy on all an you can find all th guns if they know all of places you go an all the friends you have so what you say an what you do that is the way you are the young ones are to open to all

About time!
Posted by: boadicca on Aug 21, 2006 6:06 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Finally, the truth is being discussed! When I first saw the 18 foot hole in the Pentagon, with no debris, and was told that a 124 foot wide plane, 46 feet high, had disappeared into that hole, and "vaporized" but that the bodies were identified by their DNA and fingerprints (ON WHAT) I smelled a big, fat RAT. And when I heard that WTC7 had collapsed in the same manner as WTC1 and 2 . . . and had NOT BEEN HIT BY A PLANE, that really stank. The evidence kept on piling up, and nobody was looking at it - the public were too busy watching missing white women in Aruba, reality TV, spectator sports and other (un)important events. Thank you, Alternet, for bringing this out. The Mirror UK has an interesting article debunking the Flight 93 myth.

» RE: About time! Posted by: elmertwittle
Don't you dipshits know a PR campaign when you see one?
Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Aug 21, 2006 6:13 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Excerpted from the top secret "A Handbook for the Public Relations Expert":

"How to discredit an opponent and divert an investigation:

Smear! Smear! Smear! You must portray your opponent as a wild-eyed lunatic; a perverse individual with unsavory sexual habits - anything goes. These tactics have worked time and time again (Read George Orwell's Burmese Days for a 'worked example' of this tactic.)

It is harder, however, to discredit a platform or an idea that cannot be directly tied to a particular individual. In this case, you must do your utmost to discredit the idea by presenting it as something other than what it is; for example, if 9-11 investigators claim that Bush had foreknowledge of 9/11, portray them as also claiming that Bush secretly planted bombs in the WTC and fired missles at the Pentagon."


Considering that most Americans have swallowed a lifetime of propaganda and are likely to spew it back up with just a little encouragement, (in the secret hope of being praised for their 'knowledge'), maybe the comments on this thread are understandable. It's the fault of the educational process, no doubt. A whole country full of gullible Disney-fied citizens - in other words, an advertiser's wet dream.

The other possibility is that >80% of the comments are an example of 'product placement' by paid propaganda experts. I can't wait to see if I get any responses - am I a CIA agent? A conspiracy theorist? A wild-eyed-lunatic? A sex pervert with an unhealthy interest in barnyard animals (don't look in the mirror, now!)? (I'm sure you can do better than that last one).

This topic does have rich comedic possibilities however - yes, the time has come for 9/11 comedy (they made all those stupid movies, didn't they?). For example:

"This is all academic, anyway. Look what 9/11 did for oil and gold prices - the rally is still on. Quit your whining, everyone - if you didn't take advantage of that once-in-a-lifetime economic opportunity, it's your own damn fault. But take heart, dear commodities traders - similar opportunities may arise soon."

Pardon the Daily Show ripoff - but I do like their new Middle Eastern Correspondent.

» RE: markets Posted by: rwa
We need to focus on what's visible
Posted by: prlbrlolme on Aug 21, 2006 6:35 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There’s a TIPPING POINT in public awareness that has to be reached before a serious investigation will ever be launched into exposing the entire truth of the events of 9/11. In order to reach that tipping point I’m convinced it’s IMPERATIVE that we focus on the ONE THING we have that can’t be kept from view. That one thing is featured in “Loose Change” and the 25 or more DVDs about 9/11 (even the ones that rubber stamp the “official version” and ignore the skeptic’s views). That one thing is the myriad video and photo evidence of the actual collapse of all three of the WTC buildings. Every thing else, at this point, is essentially arguing a mountain of “whys”, why-nots”, negatives and probabilities. They’re all of the greatest importance and need to be addressed, but first we MUST get the point across that those buildings were destroyed by controlled demolition because we can POINT to the way all the concrete floors and building structure explodes upward and outward from the initiating point of impact. We can POINT to the squib puffs. We can POINT to the free-fall speed of collapse. After closely examining all the slow motion video and stills of those collapses, anyone whose intellect is not frozen in denial and willful ignorance can’t help but see that the destruction of those buildings was engineered and prepared long in advance. At that point those who couldn’t see it wouldn’t believe it if the perpetrators confessed to the whole operation on “Larry King Live”. The video and still photos are POSITIVES that are in our hands and can’t be hidden from view. We need to FOCUS on what we can POINT to. We need to convince enough critical thinkers in order to get past the tipping point.

TOP 10 RESPONSES, WHEN ACCUSED OF BEING...
Posted by: Roverton on Aug 21, 2006 6:48 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
... a Conspiracy Theorist.

1."Some people don't like complicated things. Maybe it's just not your gift."

2. "History books are jammed with conspiracies. But WE live in today's mess. I understand why you're scared, but some of us are trying anyway."

3. "How brave of you to go along with what the TV is saying!"

4. "You're a savant at predicting the past."

5. "You must be a COMPLACENCY KOOK!"

6. "What have you been SO RIGHT about that you can tell me I'm wrong about anything?"

7. "Ignorance is now officially, no longer bliss."

8. "Why don't you care more about this? What's wrong with you?"

9. "If you were a CSI cop, they'd have to fire you. You don't really look at evidence."

10. "Just because you don't know something, doesn't mean it's not true."

ELEVEN
Posted by: Roverton on Aug 21, 2006 6:59 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
11. "You have to PAY OFF someone to Not-See the facts as they are presenting themselves."

Coincidence
Posted by: IggyD on Aug 21, 2006 7:02 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Is it coincidence that the White house 2001, especially summer: US officials were warned of imminent major attack by terrorists, by Britain, Egypt, France, Germany, Israel, Italy, Jordan, Morocco, Afghanistan, Argentina, and Russia. Specifically named were on the FBI’s hijacker list of 19: Nawaf Alhazmi, Khalid Almihdhar, Marwan Alshehhi, Mohamed Atta and nothing happened?

Is it a coincidence that 15 of the 19 hijackers got visas, when the documents were not completed correctly and should have been rejected?

Is it a coincidence that all the hijackers smuggled box cutters on each flight that day without 1 being detected?

Is it a coincidence that the FAA failed in Procedure and Protocol that day?

Is it a coincidence that NORAD failed to track and shoot down even 1 plane that day?

Is it a coincidence that the Fighter Jets failed to use Maximum speed to intercept that day?

Is it a coincidence that the Patriot Missile System failed to shoot down Flight 77 that day?

Is it a coincidence that all of military command and control failed that day?

Is it coincidence that the CIA failed to discover this conspiracy?

Is it coincidence that the FBI failed to discover this conspiracy?

Is it coincidence that the Secret Service failed to move the President to safety when they knew the Country was under attack?

Is it coincidence that at every level of the Federal Government Procedure and Protocol failed that day?

Is it coincidence that not one person that broke procedure and protocol has been held accountable?

Is it coincidence that both of the Twin Towers fell that day? (When a steel and concrete structure has never fallen in the history of steel buildings.)

Is it a coincidence that WTC #7 fell 5 hours later that day even though it was not struck by a plane and had only 2 fires?

Is it coincidence that all 3 buildings broke Newton’s laws of motion while falling that day?

Is it coincidence that all 3 building broke the law of gravity and fell at near free fall speed in a vacuum?

Is it a coincidence that molten steel was found in the sub-basement 6 weeks later as if cutter charges with Thermite were used?

Is it a coincidence that the rubble was taken away to Asia and destroyed before an investigation?

Is it a coincidence that an investigation was not initiated until 411 days after and did not convene until 434 days after that day?

Is it a coincidence that in closed meeting before being released, the Official Keen Commission Report was approved by the White House?

Is it a coincidence that none of the firefighters were allowed to testify at the commission about the multiple explosions they witnessed?

On and On and On…

To me all these things are statistically impossible in the real world. Unless guided by an outside force.

Anyway, I am very disappointed with many of my fellow Countrymen and the Democrats that have put their political party ahead of the Victims of 911, their Country and The Constitution.

President Bush and his administration belong in jail for TREASON!

» PR monkey alert! Posted by: thoughtcriminal
» RE: Coincidence Posted by: gonzoskismet
RE "I can't believe this"
Posted by: Roverton on Aug 21, 2006 7:04 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You're saying you're not capable of believing this, not that it isn't true.

Get better at it. Our future is on the line.

It's about time Alternet
Posted by: colek on Aug 21, 2006 7:14 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Glad to see you worthless invertebrates have grown enough of a spine to finally crawl out from under your rocks to start posturing regardless of the disclaimer. You have a long way to go however to regain real credibility with those of us smart enough to get our information from sources besides the regular spoonfeeders.

More from the propaganda experts...
Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Aug 21, 2006 7:43 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Excerpted from the military psyops version of the top secret "Handbook for the Public Relations Expert":

"How to lie successfully:

In general, a lie is most believable when hidden amongst the truth. When attempting to smear or discredit an individual or an idea, always attempt to associate yourself as closely as possible with the target. For example, "John Doe is a good friend of mine, and I've long respected his opinions, BUT... he is a lying no-good etc. etc.". Similarly, if there is a great deal of evidence that points towards the criminal culpability of your client, don't try and deny that evidence. Instead, include additional 'evidence' that can easily be demonstrated to be false and use that 'fake evidence' to discredit the original evidence.

This may seem like a complicated strategy, but trust us - we've seen it work time and again. Recall when Nixon said that "I am not a crook"? Everyone then had that association in their heads: Nixon and crook. That's why we tell Bush to say "I strongly disagree" when he is accused of being a cold-hearted murderous amoral lying shit, rather than denying the allegations. NEVER deny anything - that's a very important rule in this business."

Again, the point is that there is a PR campaign in existence (I'd guess Rendon Group, myself, but maybe they've got admirers and cohorts) that seeks to undermine any notion of presidential foreknowledge of 9/11 from reaching the surface of the American 'Jungian Mass Consciousness' (a phrase borrowed from the brilliant Nazi propaganda experts who were taken to the US via 'Operation Paperclip' post WWII); the evidence and the signs are all there, if you care to look.

Come on, you slimy little PR trolls - deny it!

You aren't in any quandry about how to respond, are you?

Maybe it's time to call the boss and see what he says.

Here's what I've known...
Posted by: jugdish88 on Aug 21, 2006 9:55 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
since 9/11.

1. Flight 93 was blown up.

Either by a bomb or shot down, there is no way a plane disintegrates that fast when hitting the ground. And in that many pieces. I have been traveling over the big pond at least once a year for 27 years to see my family and I have tuned in to many a plane crash coverage to see what happened. The only prior crash site that looks even similar to what happened in Somerset, PA is the Lockerbie bombing. I happened to be in England at the time, and since there was a raging guerilla war with the IRA going on, any sign of terrorism was highly investigated. I remember seeing the debris on the ground and trying to figure out what all the parts were (I was a huge plane nut back in the day). The only other crash that has given me a problem is flight 93.

2. A plane did not hit the Pentagon.

It makes ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE to even believe one did. The day after and every day since, I have scoured the pics from that crash and have never seen one engine, one wing , one tail, or one piece of fuselage. There is also no way that a plane with the great wingspan of a modern passenger liner would be able to crash into the building and not affect the areas outside of the fuselage. The only way it could have crashed into the pentagon would be to leave a HUGE thin horizontal oval...and the ground would have been SHREDDED.

3. Something strange happened at the WTC.

I don't know exactly what, and from the other posts it seems as though everyone is getting caught up in the numbers. Screw the numbers, and just look at it. It doesn't "seem" right. I know people will attack this for saying that "seeming" is some how eveidence but most people, not just Americans, have a hard time experiencing anything for themselves anymore and want to take an experts opinion before believeing anything. This undermines our existance as human beings. Just think about it. Does it make sense that the tower that was hit second would come down first? Does it make sense that the tower that was hit on the side, not in square, would still come STRAIGHT down? Does it make sense that people with very little flying skill would be able to smack their plane not once but twice directly on target with the precision of a Blue Angel (I am not saying tha the Blue Angels did it).

I have read a few comments that also need to be thought out. People have said, "if someone knew about it, why wouldn't they come out?". Well who is going to believe them, and there have been people coming out. "What about the papers in other nations (specifically the UK)? Why haven't they asked these questions?". Actually they do, and articles about these ideas have been floating around them for years. "These guys are just trying to make a buck". If that were true, the only way to get to see the film would be in three easy installments of $9.99 payable by check, money order or major credit card. You can pay for it, but almost everyone I know who has seen it (the number is probably reaching 50) have seen it for free.

I am asking, as the filmakers are, to just think about 9/11. Try and feel it and see if something isn't right. Don't bog yourself down trying to find answers for every question (there are WAY to many) and just think to yourself "Does this make sense?". I did that on Sep. 11th and most days since and the answer has always been no.

» RE: Here's what I've known... Posted by: YogiBear
Pushing peoples' buttons
Posted by: NowYogi on Aug 21, 2006 10:29 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Thank you Alternet for posting this interview. You sure have pushed alot of peoples' buttons, judging from the number of passionate comments. That is very helpful in getting to the Truth behind 911. As for me, there are simply too many unanswered questions for me to believe the official 'story'.

» RE: Pushing peoples' buttons Posted by: bullwhip7
911 @ the VAMPIRE CON STATE
Posted by: Hal on Aug 21, 2006 11:13 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Due to its very existence, a clear and present DC to MSM 911cover-up is far more than just obstruction of justice (a serious crime in and of itself). 911 cover-up is naked proof America has been betrayed out of constitutional rule of law and its democratic republic.

Thus, it takes no brain trust to see a 911 cover-up for public national policy. A wholly cooked 911 event is directly responsible for phony “war on terror” death and blood money devastation on the planetary scale. Public policy that bears every stamp of being conducted for private greed to the tune of a trillion dollar tab (minimum overall) with added incentive for control of Big Oil fields from Eurasia thru Mid East theatres. A double corporate cartel Mafia windfall.

But this is nothing new…Significant wars have always been fought over public wealth for private power.

And oligarchs that have enforced war have done so by controlling the purse strings and therefore a puppet DC-MSM puppet show. Fascist oligarchs have done this by manipulating the creation of money out of thin air thru private frauds like the “Federal Reserve” Corporation that was never “federal” and minus any “reserves” but a shakedown trap. A scam that guarantees rule by a de facto parasite ruling class. To put it another way: a cartel vampire class.

For the entire token government out of Washington to “get away” with one 911 hoax for as long as it has would require well-organized institutional support. That means a shill enabled base ranging from one gamed DC-MSM poodle complex on to compromised state houses. But not all players are equal. In Intel-speak most state to MSM corporate apparatchiks had to be well pressured and rewarded to blindly toe the line thru “compartmentalization”. All the same, carrots and sticks only delayed the inevitable. Now that there is virtually no plausible deniability or cover to be had, the Kool-Aid cum Vichy water is far more difficult to sell. Thus keeping a lid on the sting becomes more difficult even for well-greased MSM talking point flacks.

A notorious 911 cover-up comes with global ramifications. 911 faux“war on terror” thru Iraq War Inc. complete with Orwellian trimmings is already a loaded nightmare for the nation. One that’s apparently just beginning with Israel and its Iran War Inc. looming. However, a blown snake oil crime this large would mean no less than constitutional crisis. It bodes an American upheaval as grave as national denial crashed wide open.

Again, the fallout of 911 cover-up goes to the core of America as an alleged democratic republic at home and abroad. Issues at stake are no less sweeping.

http://www.wealth4freedom.com/creature.htm
http://www.wealth4freedom.com/creature_Chapter_10.htm
http://www.mises.org/content/mnr.asp
http://www.lewrockwell.com/rothbard/rothbard66.html

http://www.freedomtofascism.com

“THE RULING CLASS HAS THE SCHOOLS AND PRESS UNDER ITS THUMB. THIS ENABLES IT TO SWAY THE EMOTIONS OF THE MASSES.”
DOCTOR ALBERT EINSTEIN (Nobel Laureate and refugee from Nazi fascism. 1879-1955)

"THE REAL TRUTH OF THE MATTER IS, AS YOU AND I KNOW, THAT A FINANCIAL ELEMENT IN THE LARGER CENTERS HAS OWNED THE GOVERNMENT EVER SINCE THE DAYS OF ANDREW JACKSON.”
PRESIDENT FRANKLIN D. ROOSEVELT (describing oligarch rule in a letter to handler “Colonel” Edward M. House, confidence man for the cartel and founder of the Council on Foreign Relations. House also handled President Wilson and the creation of a private “Federal Reserve” Corporation and its IRS in 1913. FDR speaks of monopolists at cartel centers of New York & London that own the U.S. Government. November 21st, l933)

August 31st 1939! History repeats itself. WWIII begins.
Posted by: HeadsUp on Aug 22, 2006 5:45 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Late evening on Thursday, 31 August 1939 the audience was listening to Gleiwitz, a radio-station on the Germano-Polish frontier but just inside Germany. Suddenly the musical programme broke and excited German voices announced that the town of Gleiwitz had been invaded by Polish irregular formations marching towards the emitting station. Then the station "went dead". When received again, Polish was being spoken. An inflammatory statement was broadcast urging Polish minority in Silesia to take up arms against Adolf Hitler. Radio Cologne gave out that German police was repelling the attackers at Gleiwitz. The BBC also broadcast a statement, which read:


There have been reports of an attack on a radio station in Gleiwitz, which is just across the Polish border in Silesia. The German News Agency reports that the attack came at about 8.00pm this evening when the Poles forced their way into the studio and began broadcasting a statement in Polish. Within quarter of an hour, says reports, the Poles were overpowered by German police, who opened fire on them. Several of the Poles were reported killed, but the numbers are not yet known. [1]


This was the excuse Hitler needed to invade Poland on the next day, 1 September 1939. The incident, which triggered the Second World War could have remained obscure, had it not surfaced during the proceedings of the International Military Tribunal in Nuremberg in 1945. A written affidavit was then taken from SS-Sturmbannfьhrer Naujocks, which indicated that the attack on the Gleiwitz radio-station was staged by the Gestapo and SD, and was one of numerous "border incidents" fabricated for the purpose of furnishing Hitler with such excuses, and creating an atmosphere of distrust and suspicion as to Poland's intentions.

Lambs in the wind!
Posted by: williameon on Aug 22, 2006 6:21 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Listen to all the tiny
Sheeple
Bla Bla Blaing
In the wind.
Being
Led to slaughter
First
Fattened!
Frightened!
Then
Washed
in
Holy Water
Promised resurrection
At the end.
Lambs in the wind.
Being
Hung out to dry
Lambs in the wind.
as
The Wolves
Dick the Heartless
and
Georgie Porgy.
Dress
in
Fools clothing.The Sheeple sing
Lambs in the wind.

Their bombs rain down.
Two Towers fell to the ground
With it your humanity
God
&
Country.
The oil Barons that took control.
In 64
A long time ago
Stampeding the Sheeple again.
The Cowboy drove the herd
Over every cliff
In sight.
Still they didn't take flight.
True Blue Baffons
Till the end.

Is this the best we can do?
Be Victimized again?
Stop the War!
Stop the BU_! SH__!
Stop the Neo-Nazis!

That's our whole goal, to make Americans think
Posted by: rkewen on Aug 22, 2006 6:32 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Good Luck with that!

They tried to block access to eyewitness accounts in court....
Posted by: AngryWhiteFemale on Aug 22, 2006 9:25 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
....for 4 years. Do not forget that in October 2001, the NY Times requested access to all eyewitness depositions taken by investigators. The City denied it and the Times took them to court and sued under FOIA. The government kept attempting to block release of the information through appeals until the NY Court of Appeals finally ordered it released in 2005. What bothers me is that the Times was not requesting interrogation transcripts of suspects - simply of people on the ground, firefighters and EMT's and police who witnessed the collapse. If the government had nothing to hide, why in the world would they try so hard to block it? These are from witnesses who lived, so they cannot hide behind the excuse of upsetting the families. You can find transcripts of all 503 witnesses here:

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/html/nyregion/
20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC/
met_WTC_histories_full_01.html

Plenty of them say that they heard bangs and pops and saw flashes of light around the inside of the building similar to what occurs during a controlled demolition. Some had previous training in controlled demolitions.

either part of the problem or part of the solution
Posted by: concerned Canadian on Aug 22, 2006 9:32 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Fact is that yes, Loose Change makes its point - that the official line simply is a crock! So it shows the problem. The rest is up to Americans who have been educated in the system their taxes have paid for, who have studied logic in the system their taxes have paid for, who have studied history and on and on in the same system their taxes have paid for. I don't know how people can go to sleep at nights, sleep peacefully or look with honesty into their children's or grandchildren's faces if they don't make themselves part of the solution to this terrible 911 truth search and find the truth and then march against the perps. Check out 911 truth movement for action on 911 this year to be part of the solution.

Loose Change is a PR campaign product - (Public Relations)
Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Aug 22, 2006 1:47 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Excerpted from the top secret "Handbook for the Propaganda Expert" by J. Goebbels, edited by Karl Rove:

"The essence of successful propaganda is to take a complex topic, reduce it to the point where a small child can understand the argument, and then repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat."

The propaganda line: bombs in the WTC, missles hit the Pentagon, flights vanished, the CIA is all-powerful, be afraid!

The goal : to distract the public and to make sure that any notions of 9/11 being preventable are are seen by the general public as work of 'wild-eyed conspiracy theorists who also believe that it was a missile that hit the Pentagon".

Bush's little speeches in the wake of 9/11 in response to any questions about 9/11 always included this tagline: "We aren't going to address any outrageous conspiracy theories about 9/11". Thus, a discussion about the Aug 06 Presidential Daily Briefing ('Bin Ladin Determined to Attack Inside the US, delivered by the CIA directly to the President) or about John Ashcroft's decision to stop using commercial flights in the summer of 2000 was replaced by a discussion of the CIA planting bombs in the WTC, of US military missles hitting the Pentagon, and of unaccounted-for flights - issues that are easily debunked.

It's called transference, and Rummy, that Promising Young Man, is a master of this technique. He never answers the question a reporter asks; he prefers to invent his own question and answer that. Ask him about his role in the Iraqi torture scandal and he replies "My Goodness! I will say this: our President is seeking democracy in the Middle East, and that will make our country safer." How are those Tamiflu contracts treating you, Rummy Boy? "My Goodness! blah, blah, blah."

How did this 23-yr old wunkerkind come up with all that complex high-res CG for this "Loose Change" film? Must be a genius of some kind.

Avery and Rowe were right
Posted by: Reader11722 on Aug 22, 2006 2:37 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
9/11 was an inside job so the US gov't can clamp down on rights by stealing private lands, detaining anyone who speaks out against the gov't, banning books like "America Deceived" from Amazon (and Wikipedia who admitted a conspiracy), conducting illegal wire-taps and starting 2 illegal wars based on lies and a false-flag operation known as 9/11. Avery and Rowe are the start of a new generation of reporters who actually hold gov't accountable.
Last link (before Google Books caves to the gestapo and drops the title):
America Deceived - Book

» RE: Good God Man Posted by: Techubus
Government Investigation Commissions Can't Escape Pollitics
Posted by: tanstaafl28 on Aug 22, 2006 4:16 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm far from believing 9/11 was an "inside job," but I am convinced that we will never know the whole truth about what happened that day. Government commissions are known for generating lots of paperwork and having televised hearings, but they don't seem to answer all the questions that require answering. At some point, politics always gets in the way.

The dam of denial is bulging to burst --> August 31
Posted by: Meremark on Aug 22, 2006 4:38 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
-
Nine-Eleven Op's false flag Legend (n.e.o. con) is about to burst wide open. Today on MediaChannel dot ORG it is featured, and they are as ostrich head-down as Alternet on the subject.

Some new YouTube at MediaChannel compounds the Loose Change breakout video critical mass, here:
YouTube.com/watch?v=0yBgzNeqZE0

Hey AlterNet, look, Nine Eleven Op was entirely the work of the Cheney Gang, gophers at the direction of the King of the New World Order, Geo. Hitler Worker Buns hisse'f.

Get used to it, AlterNet, our government mass murdered thousands of New Yorkers. So that we wouldn't stop them from invading the oil patch. Do you, AlterNet, think if you be vewy vewy quiet, it's going to all go away and your infamy of looking aside and silence -- See no, Hear no, Speak no truth -- is going to stand you in good stead? You are toast when you protect Bush murders. Taking names NOW for Nuremberg, the Sequel. What did you do in the Truth War, daddy-o? Who you hangin' with ...

See: FromTheWilderness dot COM, for the book "Crossing the Rubicon: The Decline of the American Empire at the End of the Age of Oil" Explains How but mainly WHY the Cheney Gang did it.

See: ModernHistoryProject dot ORG for archived books.

George Bush: The Unauthorized Biography by Webster Tarpley & Anton Chaitkin (39 parts)
The history of the Harriman-Walker-Bush clan during the 20th century This group paid Hitler's bail in 1925, or he'd never have gotten out.

Secrets of the Federal Reserve by Eustace Mullins (18 parts)
The history, organization and controlling interests behind the Federal Reserve -- What started it all in 1907-1910. Therefore the solution: Make new money. Forget the US $. It's over. Get used to it.

See: WayneMadsenReport dot COM for daily killshots on the monster *Abolish the *C*I*A* easy: Congress zero out the budget line item - ) poof (.
Especially see WMR archives in August a year ago, '05, pre-Katrina. And, esp., Special Report in archive Sept.20-22, '05.

The lid is about to blow off the N.E.O. con.

There were NO fanatic Arab hijackers on the planes -- they didn't even buy tickets. Same same as recent London liquid loading hoax, false flag. Get USED to it -- you been lied to big time and you fell for it. Many gave their life for NOTHING.

Stand up, fight back, or your turn's coming...

researching 9/11 can be hazardous..
Posted by: aurora2484 on Aug 22, 2006 8:22 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Attacks on those researching events of 9/11 '01 take various forms.

Brigham-Young University's Prof Steven Jones has been seriously misquoted by World Net Daily's Jon Moseley, who said, "When asked if violent revolution was necessary, this scientist declared – in front of national TV cameras – that there is no peaceful way to achieve the group's goals. In the context of the question, professor Jones was calling for the violent overthrow of the government."

Prof Jones made no such statement, and his actual words can be checked on the particular C-SPAN broadcast. However the misrepresentation has had "very serious" implications for his standing at the university.
---

In a separate incident this week, AFP journalist Chris Bollyn was " harassed, beaten, and shocked with a Tazer-like gun in my front yard before my wife and children, and then abused for 6 hours by the ADL-trained local police” - His own description on the website of the Republic Broadcast Network, where he is a talk show host.

He continues, “I have every reason to believe it is because of my journalistic investigation into 9/11. I have been threatened before in my career as a journalist, but this is the first time I have been intentionally beaten and abused—by the cops…. I intend to seek asylum in Norway or Switzerland. I can read the writing on the wall.”
-- From Kurt Nimmo, August 17 '06, "Cops arrest AFP Journalist Christopher Bollyn"; Full story at americanfreepress

What about Wikipedia?
Posted by: YogiBear on Aug 23, 2006 4:36 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Wikipeda is used as one of the sources for Loose Change. But do people who believe in controlled demolition respect Wikipedia? Probably not. The encyclopediac website rejects the notion of controlled demolition, based on analyses of the majority of engineers and scientists in the country. If you truly are a skeptic, one would think you'd at least be willing to look what they have to say:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
Collapse_of_the_World_Trade_Center

privileged: man/wife, confessor/priest, client/attorney, client/investment broker - 911 put options
Posted by: kogwonton on Aug 23, 2006 3:33 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Because of Sept. 11, this government has blatantly declared the right to spy/eavesdrop on, seize property from, enter homes of, and detain American citizens indefinitely, without warrants or the filing of formal charges – all in the name of ‘National Security’ and the ‘Global War on Terror’.

We are denied public examination of evidence in the case of crimes such as the Sept. 11 attacks because, we're told, releasing the videotapes of the jet crashing into the Pentagon would comprimise intelligence personel and put their lives in danger.

We are told that the citizens’ needs for security outweigh their right to privacy and security against warrantless search and/or seizure. We have to give up our freedoms to fight those that hate our freedoms.

A.B.Brown is a private investment firm, and one which was implicated in the insider trading on AA and UA (and other stocks affected by 911) stocks in the two weeks before 911 - reported to be 1200% higher than at any other time. The head of this organization till late 1999 later went on to become the Executive Director of the CIA (#3 man) when GWB 'took' office.

By law, private investment firms can make unlimited anonymous transactions. Why doesn't the need for security outweigh the need for privacy or due process in this instance? The matter of 911 can be cleared up in a hurry if the courts would simply demand the information regarding WHO PLACED PUT OPTIONS ON AA and UA airlines (and their insurers) in the weeks before 911? This is surely evidence of foreknowledge of the attacks (which Moussaoui was convicted of, and for which there appears to be sufficient evidence within the 911 report to also indict Dick Cheney).

If we were consistent in our beliefs about the need for security outweighing our rights to privacy and due process, then we should confiscate all the paperwork from A.B.Brown and ship their board of directors to Guantanimo for the unforeseeable future.

I know that in the U.S. corporations have all the rights, but none of the responsibilities, of American citizens. They cannot be jailed, executed, and they can change their name to escape debt. They can be citizens of many different nations simultaneously, yet subject to none of their laws thanks to 'free trade'. It appears that they also get more respect for their privacy than the average American citizen, even when it is known that they are withholding evidence which would finger the perpetrators of the most heinous crime ever committed against civilians in the United States.

We could get to the bottom of this very easily if corporations privacy were as sacred as that of American citizens. It used to be that there were only three sacred (and privileged) relationships in the U.S.A. - that between husband and wife, client and attorney, and confessor/priest. Now we have another 'sacred' relationship which outweighs the security of the nation, and the safety of the American people - the relationship between client and broker. No wonder the mafia has gone legit.

More Belligerent Nationalists trying to create a national divide
Posted by: bullwhip7 on Aug 24, 2006 12:03 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hey, if, indeed as you say the film is seriously flawed and has dubious sources, why even post this article?

I guess this is a really obvious example of how Alternet has deteriorated to the level of The Star, Twiggy and Area 51. I can hear it now "Just publish anything that's controversial - we'll get a bunch of readers and make a killing on the advertising!!"

Yeah, too bad. Sad actually.

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