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Why I Don't Live In Israel

By Orit Weksler, AlterNet. Posted August 17, 2006.


If Israel is doomed to be a nation that lives by the sword, as is commonly proclaimed on the streets of Tel Aviv these days, then I opt out.

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This war is not different from the others. It's just the same. It reminds us of the wars that preceded it. I was born into the Yom Kippur War and lived through two other "official wars": the first Lebanon war, the first Gulf war. I remember as a kid: lists of soldiers killed in battle read on the radio after the hourly news; knowing the next name could be one of my friends' brothers or fathers. I remember as a teenager: sirens, gas masks, and fireworks shows of patriot missiles chasing Scuds in the sky. I remember as a mom: driving in the farthest possible lane from a city bus, just in case it was the one carrying the suicide bomber that day.

Wars are all the same and this one is no different. For Israelis, they all go back to "that" war. That war that turned my great-grandparents into smoke, that horrible, monstrous act of genocide that keeps creeping up on us.

Jews were not a party in World War II. They were victims -- they had no army and no choice. But Israel does have an army and a choice. Israel is choosing to endanger its citizens and soldiers, to ruin once again the lives of many civilians in Lebanon, in order to prove its strength and to keep "that" from happening again.

I think it's not only a mistake, it's a suicidal path. Nothing can ensure us "that" won't happen -- the gas chambers, the concentration camps, the ghettos. All that. Since it happened once it might happen again.

Some people justify Israel's actions by arguing that Jews need a place to go to when anti-Semitism breaks out somewhere in the world. But as Yeshayahu Leibowitz, the philosopher and outspoken public figure, once said: the most dangerous place for Jews in the world is the state of Israel.

What does Israel have to offer Jews who come to find shelter? Right now it's offering grief, fear and shame. If we're doomed to be a nation that lives by the sword, as is commonly proclaimed on the streets of Tel Aviv these days, then I opt out.

And I did. When my son was born five years ago in Tel Aviv, the nurse complimented his good health by saying: "He'll make a good soldier." That gave me the chills. The babies he shared the nursery with will, in 13 years, be fighting the third, or fourth or fifth Lebanon war. I will do anything in my power so that my son does not become one of them.

This is one of the reasons I don't live in Israel. In many ways I feel I'm in exile. I'm glued to the Internet and I cry for every civilian -- Lebanese and Israeli, who is killed, wounded or traumatized by this war. I also cry for the soldiers and their families. I believe they are making a huge mistake and I don't know how to make them stop.

Not that I agree with Sheik Nasrallah. In fact, he scares me. I think Israel should defend itself from Nasrallah and his kind. Israel should defend itself by joining all the people and governments of the Middle East who are concerned and threatened by fanatic Islam to figure out a way to disarm those guerilla warriors. Israel should join its neighboring countries to find a solution for the Palestinian refugees, it should take some responsibility for their situation and find a way to compensate them for their losses. And now it should also take responsibility for the damage done in Lebanon.

Some might say that I'm naïve. I'm not naïve -- I'm desperate. This might be our last chance to put down our guns. I think becoming a responsible participant in the Middle East is Israel's only chance of ever becoming a safe place for Jewish people. My children's friends in Israel fear the hourly news followed by the list of today's casualties, just like I did 25 years ago. This war is no different from the others. It isn't another war that will make Israel a safe place to live.

Digg!

Orit Weksler, a psychotherapist living in the East Bay, emigrated with her family from Israel to the United States in 2003.

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otto
Posted by: otto on Aug 17, 2006 5:07 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I thank Yahweh for Jewish people like Orit Weksler who oppose the official positions of Israel today. I "sense" a growing movement in the world today of many different groups - religious and non-religious - who reject violence as a means to solve the world's problems, and are reaching for higher,deeper and more meaningful solutions.

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» Thanks otto Posted by: jreinhart1
» RE: Thanks otto Posted by: mythbuster
don
Posted by: don450 on Aug 17, 2006 5:17 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am not Jewish but I have studied the writings of the great rabbis who developed rabbinical judaism after the fall of the second temple. Their stress on love and kindness in the treatment of other humans has always impressed me. I am, therefore, often suprised by the virulent violence and stress on revenge so often uttered by Israeli leaders. What happened to European Jews during the second World War was horrendous but it cannot serve as an excuse for injustice and violence against others. I'm sorry but when the State of Israel does that, it acts in the most unjewish way that I can imagine. I suggest that the leaders go back to Hillel and both Gamliels and relearn their heritage, just as Christians should rediscover the love and humility of Joshua ben Joseph, the man they call Jesus.

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» RE: don Posted by: redstarwraith
Jewish Courage and honor
Posted by: indy675 on Aug 17, 2006 5:45 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I don't think I can possibly express, right now, how I feel, when I hear Jews of good faith disagree openly with the Israeli government. The same is true for Jews who know better than trust fundamentalists of any stripe.

It is the same feeling I get when I hear moderate Muslims and sane Christians seeking the truth and reaching out to each other.

If we say it is God that is tearing us all apart, we are liars. If we admit the truth; that it is more likely the usual Cardinal Sins that are responsible, we, as the human race--God's children, may stand a chance of survival, and more: PEACE

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what the deal is
Posted by: psyopswatcher on Aug 17, 2006 6:18 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Orit, my son will be a junior in college in a few weeks. I know perfectly where you're coming from. During his freshman year there were some Israeli boys in his dorm who go home every summer. They were teaching him Hebrew. At least one (that I know of) is a reservist. I wonder if he'll be back this fall.

Anyhow, after following this latest war, I can't help to suspect that the Israeli motives involving national security don't also involve the announcement of a 4-pipeline deal along the Syrian and Lebanese coasts. Fishing grounds that may be disputed during construction? Maritime rights that need to be settled before construction can begin?

I've posted these articles elsewhere and haven't heard much response or rebuttal.

How about the 4-pipelines being planned for the eastern Med from Turkey to Israel? Have you heard of that sweet deal? Wouldn't have anything to do with Israel wanting to secure the coast? Or saber rattling with Syria, by any chance?

Jerusalem Post:
Israel and Turkey plan energy pipeline

Global Research:
The War on Lebanon and the Battle for Oil

Is this war like all the others? It looks to me like Phase 2 (3?) of the Afghanistan/Iraq debacle.

Either way, with electricity involved, I can't help but think someone's going to get Enronned over that deal. And water is certainly a very hot commodity for sale. While most of Lebanon's coastal waters, fishing grounds have already been destroyed this past month.

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» RE: what the deal is Posted by: stonehinge
» RE: what the deal is Posted by: bullwhip7
Israel needs to exist
Posted by: rinpochet on Aug 17, 2006 7:05 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Some people justify Israel's actions by arguing that Jews need a place to go to when anti-Semitism breaks out somewhere in the world. But as Yeshayahu Leibowitz, the philosopher and outspoken public figure, once said: the most dangerous place for Jews in the world is the state of Israel."

It needn't be called Israel. By any name any place that consists mostly of Jews will always be the most dangerous place for Jews because of the hatred of Jews throughout the world. And that was the point of that statement.

So Hezbollah as the arm of Iran kills 8 Israeli soldiers and kidnaps 2. Israel responds with a lot but not all of the power it has (which is what is done in war) and again, they are the bad guys and terrorists are the victims.

This by Bob Godwin:
Israel is surrounded by enemies, both literally, in the form of her bloodthirsty Arab neighbors, but ideologically as well. Many on the left are openly questioning Israel's right to exist, deeming it an "historical mistake" (Richard Cohen) or the source of all Muslim grievances--as if Muslims wouldn't simply be at each others' throats if Israel were obliterated, or as if Israel has anything to do with Muslim violence in the Philippines, Darfur, Malaysia, Canada, India, Singapore, et al."

And where is the outcry by Muslims against the Darfur genocide? Exacty! There is none.

Radical Islam is the enemy of not just Israel but America and the West. Their dream is the return of the caliphate; destroy as many infidels and take us back to the 5th century. Israel is the good guy in this picture and you identify and sympathize with radical Islam at your own peril. They certainly have shown they have no concern over the lives of Jews or Americans.

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» The US Needs to Drop It's Support Posted by: decembrist
» RE: The US Needs to Drop It's Support Posted by: meetmeineleusis
» Israel needs to open its eyes Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: Israel needs to open its eyes Posted by: meetmeineleusis
» RE: Israel needs to open its eyes Posted by: meetmeineleusis
» RE: Israel needs to open its eyes Posted by: meetmeineleusis
» RE: Israel needs to open its eyes Posted by: drmflorida
» RE: Israel needs to open its eyes Posted by: Benjaminsjw
» RE: Israel needs to open its eyes Posted by: Bree in Idaho
» RE: Israel needs to exist Posted by: meetmeineleusis
» RE: Israel needs to exist Posted by: drcyflowers
» RE: Israel needs to exist Posted by: jew90
» RE: Israel needs to exist Posted by: bornxeyed
Thoughts on a Summer Night
Posted by: Fionnsboy on Aug 17, 2006 7:27 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What a great, meaningful piece-- as our most pieces when people speak from the heart, and from our common humanity.
Like so many other people of this planet, I have been sorely grieved over the latest war, as I continue to grieve over the continued occupation and escalating violence in Iraq; and the Bush Aministration seems utterly impervious to whatever happens. One wonders how bad it has to get before some change comes--
But we the people cannot wait for that change, and must make the change ourselves.
I just came in from sitting on my back porch steps. It's a very long flight of steps, and I have pots of things growing on the steps: Heavenly Blue and Grandpa Ott Morning Glories; Lantana; Flowering Tobacco; Petunias; and some spring pansies that have become leggy and gangling, which I should really replace-- but they were so cheery in the spring that I haven't the heart somehow-- I will cut them back, fertilize them, and hope for good things in the fall.
Overhanging the back steps is a large and very ancient Mulberry tree. Although the front of this old house borders a four-lane state highway, where the roar hardly ever seems to stop, the back of the house features an old barn and, behind that, four acres of woods that somehow escaped development. Wild turkeys, raccoons, fisher cats, woodcuts, chipmunks, and all kinds fo birds live there.
For the past few weeks, the crickets have been going wild, sounding the night's depth, taking the pulse of the night. There are lots of stars out tonight; I came in and got my binoculars, and watched them for a while, my dog keeping me company one step behind me, utterly content to just be.
The night was so beautiful. It's easy to forget with all the nastiness in the world today, how utterly beautiful and miraculous life can be, and the things of this life.
We've tried war, and oppression, and injustice, and revenge, and racism; greed and corporatism, mistrust and hatred. They're not working. I wish I could put into words what I felt in my heart, with cricket sound spilling all round me, and the stars shining above. I had the feeling that if everyone could feel this way, we might turn away from our self-destruction, and the destruction of others, and the planet. It's so easy to burnout when working for peace and justice, and to feel powerless; but we have to remember what we're working for, and what could be. What if we tried-- just for a change-- making this earth-- for all its people-- a paradise?
Anyway-- just sending these thoughts out into the night, and thanks for listening.

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» Thank you, ten thousand times Posted by: HeroesAll
correct
Posted by: rsaxto on Aug 18, 2006 1:05 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Weksler is correct: safety and security lies in ending and preventing wars not in starting/magnifying them. Guns and bombs do not make peace, they only make wars more horrible and more frequent.

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» RE: correct Posted by: techphile
A voice of reason
Posted by: marklar on Aug 18, 2006 4:23 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's finally good to hear from someone who has reason and common sense rather than bloodlust and fear to offer. I feel encouraged that somehow, there is more to hope for peace than just wishing for it. If only this article could appear on the front page of the New York Times. My heart goes out to this man and his family. I hope one day that Israel and Palestine are two countries where people with such sound hearts and minds can live in peace.

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Israel Ain't for pansies
Posted by: owlsliveintrees on Aug 18, 2006 5:13 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You have to be a badass to live in Israel. This guy isn't. Although seeing how crazy the world is now, what's to say this guy's kid won't be wearing an american uniform in 13 years?

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» RE: Israel Ain't for pansies Posted by: HeroesAll
» RE: Israel Ain't for pansies Posted by: bullwhip7
» RE: Israel Ain't for pansies Posted by: owleyes
Can you be that stupid
Posted by: robflam on Aug 18, 2006 5:40 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There is way too much anti-Semitism in the world for Israel to act any other. The only reason a Jew can feel safe in the United States is that are way too many other minority groups to run interference. I was born here a have no reason to leave, but Israel is my insurance policy.

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» RE: Can you be that stupid Posted by: meetmeineleusis
» RE: Can you be that stupid Posted by: Iconoclast421
» RE: Can you be that stupid Posted by: brunowe
» RE: Can you be that stupid Posted by: Doubtom
Can you be that stupid
Posted by: robflam on Aug 18, 2006 5:40 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There is way too much anti-Semitism in the world for Israel to act any other. The only reason a Jew can feel safe in the United States is that are way too many other minority groups to run interference. I was born here a have no reason to leave, but Israel is my insurance policy.

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» RE: Can you be that stupid Posted by: meetmeineleusis
» RE: Can you be that stupid Posted by: robflam
» RE: Can you be that stupid Posted by: digitalspy
Utopia
Posted by: meetmeineleusis on Aug 18, 2006 6:14 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The capacity to turn earth into another eden is there, the only thing preventing it is human nature :)

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» RE: Utopia Posted by: meetmeineleusis
» RE: Utopia Posted by: jamoze
» RE: Utopia Posted by: meetmeineleusis
» RE: Utopia Posted by: EzraRodriguez
why israel?
Posted by: vicki2001lynn on Aug 18, 2006 7:42 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why are there so many Israel-bashing articles/comments on alternet? when the states that sponsored the terrorists that struck the US on 9/11 weren't Jewish, but ISLAMIC. HELLO!!! Islam is the enemy, not Judaism.

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» RE: why israel? Posted by: brunowe
» RE: why israel? Posted by: meetmeineleusis
» RE: why israel? Posted by: bullwhip7
» RE: why israel? Posted by: meetmeineleusis
» RE: why israel? HELLO Posted by: Fade
» RE: why israel? HELLO Posted by: stonehinge
» RE: why israel? Posted by: jareilly
» RE: why israel? Posted by: Maryanne
» RE: why israel? Posted by: drcyflowers
» RE: why israel? Posted by: 50566
» HELLO! Posted by: decembrist
agreed that that sword is not the answer...
Posted by: vicki2001lynn on Aug 18, 2006 7:45 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
.... forced sterilization is the answer. The sterilization of the Islamic militants that is. Every captured muslim terrorist, member of Hezbollah, or "freedom fighter" - whatever you want to call them - should be sterilized before being returned to the Arab population.

Everyone knows how machista the arabs are. Take away the manhood of these terrorists, they will lose status in their communities, and most importantly, they won't be able to breed more young terrorists to cause problems for OUR OWN grandchildren.

Catch and release. As in catch the terrorist, anesthetize and sterilize him, and release him back to his people as an - er - changed man... hahahahahaha

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» Correction to previous statement Posted by: digitalspy
Modern Israel is an Apartheid State
Posted by: NoPCZone on Aug 18, 2006 8:29 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Both the Palestinian & Jewish people have legit claims to the region but you could not tell that by the way things have gone down over the years.

For whatever historical reasons the end state that modern Israel is in is untenable for any reasonable person. It is a religious version of old South Africa. It will not stand.

Not a wish, threat or promise-- just an observation. History teaches us many things and those who ignore it learn some very harsh lessons.

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Have some perspective
Posted by: truthinator on Aug 18, 2006 9:14 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I know very few people that support the Israeli government's treatment of this latest inicdent. Not that the kidnapping and killing of Israelis is viewed as acceptable either; to the contrary, it is just as despicable, but not any more so. The point is that people don't do these sorts of things out of pure malice and spite. They have reasons. Deep-seated motivations reaching back through generations of strife and conflict. Neither side is "evil," and it no longer matters who started it. People are being killed because of it just the same.

Live and let live. I know it is a simplified comment about an impossibly complex situation, but it doesn't make it less true. I don't agree with my family, friends, or strangers on every single subject; but I speak with them, always trying to maintain an open heart and an open mind, and try to come to a compromise. If that doesn't work, we agree to disagree and we move on. What we don't do is throw a fit or punch each other when we disagree. Most of us grew out of that when we were children. So, why is it ok for our governments to do it? Why do some of us cheer them when we would chastise our children for acting the same way?

The bottom line is this: who other than psychotics or sociopaths will want to kill someone else if everyone has what they need and no one is trying to take it from them or tell them how to live? Let's address the root of the problem. If we let cultures develop in their own way based on their own ideals and we don't constantly try and fit them to some sort of arbitrary "ideal" mold; if we ensure that everyone, not just "our" people, have the resources that they need to live comfortably; then we eliminate the friction that starts all of these fires. That's security.

The difficult part is stopping the argument long enough to listen; it's dropping the grudge and seeing the other side as your brothers and sisters; it's having enough humility to consider that your view isn't right for everyone, and may not even be right for you.

Whether you view the Israelis as victims or you view the various Arab factions as victims or either side as terrorists, you are simply showing a lack of objectivity. Everybody wants the same thing basically: they just want to live free and in peace. Not someone else's version of free, but their own version. I don't think that's too much to ask.

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» RE: Have some perspective Posted by: Maryanne
» RE: Have some perspective Posted by: bullwhip7
Asymetrical Consequences
Posted by: harlan8 on Aug 18, 2006 11:45 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As an American I cannot comment fully on this article, as it would he hypocritical of me. I could have chosen to live in Israel. But the responses on here seem uninformed.

By looking at the bombing of Lebanon as unprovoked, you miss the basic problem-- that the Arab world is not interested in a 2-state solution, only the dissolution of Israel. The consequences on either side is not symetrical. If Israel overshoots, like they might have this past month, a few hundred people are killed (not justafiable for sure). If the Arabs overshoot and breach the Israeli army, total destruction of Israel and Israelis would ensue.

Has Israel done grevious things toward the Palestinians, for sure. But if there was a way towards peace, the majority of Israelis would grab it quickly. If Israel makes one mistake, its all over for them. The population would be treated like the Jewish gravestones in East Jerusalem in the 1950's or Joseph and Rachel's Tombs a few years ago.

I believe most rational people believe a 2-state solution is the best solution for peace in Palestine and Israel. I agree that the current leaders of Israel are not as commited to a 2-state solution as they should be. However, at times over the past 20 years, there have been Israeli leaders that were definitely committed to the 2-state solution. NEVER, in 60 years has there been a viable leader of Arabs or Palestinians who were committed to a 2-state solution.

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» RE: Asymetrical Consequences Posted by: Bree in Idaho
» RE: Asymetrical Consequences Posted by: stevefoagardner
» RE: Asymetrical Consequences Posted by: bullwhip7
» RE: Asymetrical Consequences Posted by: bullwhip7
Nassralah
Posted by: rwa on Aug 18, 2006 1:33 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Goodbye to the Unipolar World"
The Nasrallah Interview
By CounterPunch News Service


From an interview conducted shortly before the ceasefire by reporters from the Turkish Labor Party daily, Evrensel.

Q. What is the current state of your relations with the Socialist movement?

Hasan Nasrallah: The socialist movement, which has been away from international struggle for a considerable time, at last has begun to offer moral support for us once again. The most concrete example of this has been Hugo Chavez, the President of Venezuela. What most of the Muslim states could not do has been done by Chavez, by the withdrawal of Venezuela's ambassador to Israel. He furthermore communicated to us his support for our resistance. This has been an immense source of moral strength for us.

Q. It is possible to see the posters of Che, Chavez and Ahmadinejad side by side in the streets of Beirut. Are these the signs of a new polarization?

Hasan Nasrallah: We salute the leaders and the peoples of Latin America. They have resisted the American bandits heroically and have been a source of moral strength for us. They are guiding the way for the oppressed peoples. Go and wonder around our streets..! You will witness how our people have embraced Chavez and Ernesto Che Guevara. Nearly in every house, you will come across posters of Che or Chavez.

What we are saying to our socialist friends who want fight together with us for fraternity and freedom is: Do not come at all if you are going to say "Religion is an opiate". We do not agree with this analysis. Here is the biggest proof of this in our streets with the pictures of Chavez, Che, Sadr and Khamenei together. These leaders are saluting our people in unison. So long as we respect your beliefs, and you respect ours, there is no imperialist power we cannot defeat!

Q. Returning to threats in the region, western governments are intensifying their pressure on Damascus and Tehran, for which they are proposing a "change of regime." Some sources are of the view that the attack on Lebanon will be directed on Syria. According to your point of view, is a regional war possible?

Hasan Nasrallah: The centers of imperialist power want to make collaborators of our region as a whole. They expect us to kneel before them. Syria, Iran and Hezbollah are opposing this. The provocation concerning the former Lebanese Prime Minister Rafik Hariri and the efforts to secure the withdrawal of the Syrian army from Lebanon and -- going even further -- their wish to attack callously on to Tehran and Damascus are all due to this reason.


Q. There are claims that Hezbollah is being directed by Tehran. What are your views on this issue?

Hasan Nasrallah: This is a great lie. We are an independent Lebanese organization. We do not take orders from anyone. But this does not mean that we are not going to form alliances. We are on the side of Iran and Syria. They are our brothers. We are going to oppose any attack directed at Tehran and Damascus to the last drop of our blood just as we do in Lebanon. We uphold global resistance against global imperial terrorism.

Q. Is there any other additional point you want to make?

Hasan Nasrallah: Peace cannot be unilateral. So long as there is imperialism in the world, a permanent peace is impossible. This war will not come to an end as long as there are occupations in Iraq, Afghanistan and Palestine.

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» can you provide a link? Posted by: truthinator
» RE: can you provide a link?Yes Posted by: truthinator
The underlying problem here...
Posted by: Bree in Idaho on Aug 18, 2006 2:49 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...is that it is not in the Israeli government's best interest to seek a peaceful resolution to the conflict. In the Israeli people's best interest, but how often do government's really worry about that? If Israel can continue radicalizing the Palestinians and their neighbors through excessive unjustified use of force, then they can continue to claim that they have "no partner for peace". If they have no partner, they can continue building the Wall, effectively stealing Palestinian land; maintain full military control over water and other resources; and essentially keep the Palestinians as a handily available worker's class for Israeli industry. They get all the land they want and (and this is the key) they don't have to give any land up in return.

Now, don't get me wrong. I'm Jewish. I support Israel's right to exist and will defend it with my own life if I have to. However, I do not believe for a moment that Israel's actual existence is threatened (4th largest nuclear military in the world courtesy of YOUR taxes). And I strongly disagree with the actions of the Israeli government in refusing to seriously seek peace with the Palestinians. I also have a strong dislike of those in the Israeli government who cynically manipulate the fears, beliefs and lives of their citizens for the sake of their own territorial and political gain.

Incidentally, it is worth pointing out (for those who like to hammer on the fact that Hamas won't recognize Israel) that Israel has never recognized a Palestinian state nor the right of a Palestinian state to exist. I have heard with my own ears a religious settler tell me that "This land is ours (all of it). We will push out all we can push and kill the rest."

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Jesus said to turn the other cheek for a reason
Posted by: chief of okeefe on Aug 18, 2006 2:54 PM   
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He did not mean that it would always work.

But he understood that you can strike a powerful blow, a moral blow, that way. It worked for Ghandi, Mandela, and for ML King, where it had previously failed for more violent rebels.

If you really want peace, then take some risks to prove it. Remember that the same war-hawks in Israel who said that you "cannot talk to the Arabs" opposed the 1977 peace deal with Egypt. Similar American war-hawks said that if the US did not "win" in Vietnam, then the whole world would fall "like dominoes" to the communists. Now the vietnamese make our walkmans and our blue-jeans!! In BOTH cases, who was right and who was wrong? The war-hawks or the "peaceniks"???

The war-hawks have alot of guns, but they have nothing else. We can allow them to continue to foment hate or we can stop listening to their hysterical fear-mongering.

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And here I was under the impression
Posted by: digitalspy on Aug 18, 2006 5:22 PM   
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that the genesis of the problem Germany had with the jews was that the jews actually decared war on Germany in 1933. Or, doesn't that count?

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» Nope. Only facts count. Posted by: truthinator
"Terrorists" is a relative term. To an oppressed and scared Palestinian, an Israeli soldier is a ter
Posted by: humanity101 on Aug 18, 2006 9:00 PM   
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terrorist. When the Iraelis killed innocent civilians, they are terrorists. People are naive to slap this label around. The US has been terrorists when they orchestrated a coup that killed other countries' leaders or supported Saddam during the Iran/Iraq war and Bin Laden during the Afghan-Soviet war. Look at this recent one, Israel killed more civilians than Hezbolla did. Terrorism is a tactic used by all violent groups or states at one time or another. I found it amusing that people called the capture of Israeli soldiers a "terrorist" attack. It becomes a joke. It may be an act of war of some sort, but a "terrorist" attack? People misuse the term more and more and thus, demean it. When people use the term "terrorist", they intend to invoke fear because when people are scared, they tend to agree with you. Just by calling something "terrorists" doesn't make it so. Or calling the war in Iraq the war on terror or Al Quada doesn't make it so. Just by labeling something doesn't make it so. Some of us are not stupid. The propaganda doesn't work any more. I encourage smart people to call it for what it is and expose the lies and deception. Look at this Chuck Roberts guy on CNN! He called Ned Lamont an "al quiada" candidate but he insisted "some say". Well, no one said but himself. Imagine if there is no google. Those people lie and expect to get away with it. Well, not any more. We are not dumb and we hold them accountable for their deception.

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State of Isreal is historically and religiously wrong
Posted by: albrechtkrausse on Aug 18, 2006 9:14 PM   
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Modern zionism is the source of the problem. The British government, in there ever vigilant quest to divide and conquer, set this "state" up to help keep control over vital assets in the Middle East. Yes, it is said, that the Brits were forced to give Balfour due to zionist terrorism and an assesment of the situation vis-a-vis the Ottomans, etc but really its was a tried and true method of the Brits to divede populations into tribal, ethnic, and religous conflict (see Africa, Afghan, India/Pakistan/Bangladesh). True Jews, even to this day, deny that the secular State of Isreal should exist because its not based on scripture and is a false creation of modern realpolitik.

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Dulcimom
Posted by: morj78 on Aug 19, 2006 1:35 AM   
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I cannot help but feel that the inhabitants of this planet have not progressed very far from the caves from whence we came.

Bravo for the voice of sanity, reason and peace! As Elie Weisel commented on a recent Oprah Show, "We said 'Never again' after WWII, but there have been more attempted genocides since. Look at Bosnia, Rwanda and Darfur to name just a few..."

Again, those caves aren't very in the 'distant' past, are they?

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Just Why Are They Lobbing Bombs at you Israel???
Posted by: sofla100 on Aug 19, 2006 5:54 AM   
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Israel is making the choice how it wants to live as a country. The reason it gets bashed so much is because of bad behavior. You simply cannot confiscate people's lands, as in the West Bank, then complain and cry anti-semitism when they lob some bombs back at you. You simply cannot kidnap and imprison thousands of Arabs, without trial and charges, and then claim anti-semitism when they lob some bombs back at you. You simply cannot acquire massive firepower and war making capacity thru lobbying and influence peddling of the major world power, the USA, then use that capacity to wage war. Then again, cry anti-semitism when they lob a few bombs back at you. And you cannot construct a wall, with thousands of people behind it living in squalor, while your people take all the best land and natural resources, then again, cry anti-semitism when they lob a few bombs back at you. Now, do the supporters of Israel get it yet???

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Hezbollah Member on Arms, Rebuilding and Israel
Posted by: harlan8 on Aug 19, 2006 7:41 AM   
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http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5658941
Nawar Sahili is a member of Hezbollah who also sits on the Lebanese Parliament. He shares his views on the U.N. resolution that calls for disarmament of his organization in the south of the country, the potential source of funds for rebuilding after the war, and Israel's right to exist.

Listen starting around 3:30, he just cant say that Israel has a right to exist. All he can say that is curretnly exists.

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The Militarists Have Captured Israel
Posted by: sofla100 on Aug 19, 2006 8:14 AM   
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The Arab hatred of Israel is a direct result of Israel's right-wing, neocon government and its continued reliance on military solutions. For 20 years, Israel has relied on the military instead of good faith negotiations. Furthermore, Israel's economy is heavily dependent on the military and quite possibly without US support, Israel would collapse economically. This is not anti-semitism, it is political reality. Now, modern day Israel is the garrison state, the military is everywhere. Wh