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Immigration: The Tinderbox Issue

By Susy Buchanan, SPLC Intelligence Report. Posted August 22, 2006.


The immigration debate is searing hot in communities across America -- and it's threatening to tear one California town apart.

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A shrill voice, raised in song, pierced the angry chatter inside the Costa Mesa City Council chambers. All eyes turned to a dark-haired woman wearing a white scarf. Fist raised, eyes scrunched, she belted out a warbling but spirited version of "We Shall Overcome." Nearby stood Jim Gilchrist, co-founder of the anti-immigration Minuteman Project, and several of Gilchrist's followers. They quickly began sing-shouting "America the Beautiful," trying to drown out the civil rights-era protest spiritual.

This impromptu singing duel capped the pandemonium that erupted during a Jan. 3 Costa Mesa City Council meeting after a young Hispanic man who was testifying against Costa Mesa's ongoing anti-immigrant crackdown asked the crowd to stand in opposition to the mayor's policies. The mayor ordered his microphone shut off, and when he refused to leave the podium he was swarmed by police officers and strong-armed out the door.

If Costa Mesa Mayor Allan Mansoor and his supporters have their way, thousands of undocumented Hispanic immigrants will be similarly run out of Costa Mesa. Last December, the City Council narrowly passed a resolution pushed by Mansoor calling for the city's police officers to be trained and empowered to arrest illegal aliens for violating federal immigration law. Costa Mesa was the first city in the country to pass such a measure.

Additionally, Mansoor and his allies on the City Council, Gary Monahan and Eric Bever, have disbanded the city's human rights committee, shut down the city's day laborer center, and sliced funding for charities that serve Hispanics. There has also been talk of closing the Latino swap meet and even banning pick-up games of soccer from public parks.

More than 40% of Costa Mesa's 110,000 residents are Hispanic, many of them undocumented workers from Mexico. But while the leaders of some nearby cities have declared their communities "sanctuary cities," Mansoor's administration has taken the exact opposite stance with a hard-line campaign to roll up the welcome mat.

That campaign has transformed Costa Mesa into a closely watched and especially volatile tinderbox within the raging national debate over immigration. The success or failure of Mansoor's policies could set the tone for how other cities around the country deal with what is quickly emerging as one of the most divisive political issues in the United States. Outside activists from both sides of the debate have flocked to Costa Mesa and declared the city a critical battleground.

"Costa Mesa is at the epicenter of the immigration debate and a microcosm of what is taking place across the United States," says Humberto Caspa, a professor at the University of California, Long Beach. Of the mayor and his supporters, Caspa says, "Their objective is simple: to kick all the Latinos out."

'Mexican-hating county'

Costa Mesa, "The City of the Arts," is located on 17 square miles of bluffs just inland from the California coast, in the midst of Orange County, a staunchly conservative region with a long history of groundbreaking initiatives designed to drive out Hispanic immigrants. "Orange County is the most Mexican-hating county in the country," says Orange County Weekly syndicated columnist and investigative editor Gustavo Arellano.

The county is home to Minuteman Project co-founder Jim Gilchrist, whose "citizens border patrol" now has chapters nationwide, and to the California Coalition for Immigration Reform (CCIR), a major force behind 1994's Proposition 187, which sought to deprive undocumented immigrants of social services, health care, and public education. CCIR's official ballot argument described Proposition 187 as "the first giant stride in ultimately ending the ILLEGAL ALIEN invasion." The bulk of Proposition 187 was ruled unconstitutional by a federal judge years after it was passed by 59% of California voters, but it has nevertheless served as the model for similar measures in other states, notably Arizona's Proposition 200.

Costa Mesa's proposal to effectively transform its local police officers into immigration cops is based on a new policy developed by the Orange County Sheriff's Department, which has spent nearly two years working out an agreement with Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) for Orange County sheriff's deputies to investigate and make arrests for violations of federal immigration law (illegal entry into the United States is a federal misdemeanor). The Costa Mesa plan calls for 30 city officers, including gang investigators and detectives, to receive ICE training at an initial cost of around $200,000 to the city.

Elected officials in other communities around the country, large and small, have also recently taken measures to show they're tough on immigration. In Phoenix, Ariz., Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio formed a 250-member citizen volunteer border posse to patrol the desert for illegal immigrants. In Hamilton, Ohio, the local sheriff billed the government of Mexico $125,000 for law enforcement expenses, imprisoned undocumented immigrants, and put up billboards showing himself in front of a jail with the legend "Illegal Aliens Here."


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View:
Just gen on with it!
Posted by: TT2 on Aug 22, 2006 12:53 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Civil war 2 is already on the way! I say, lets just get the damn thing over and be done with!!!


Lets settle this the good old way!

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what's the issue here?
Posted by: Blugrazz on Aug 22, 2006 2:11 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
While I am sympathetic to mexicans(and you can forget about "hispanics", 90% of illegals crossing are mexican) I can't sit around and apologize and say "oh, sorry your country is so #$@^tty, just come on over to ours". The truth of the situation is that it costs as much, if not more, to take care of them, educate them, chase them, as the jobs they take and perform benefit the economy. This country has gotten way too sensitive to being labeled "racist" or "insensitive". The illegals don't respect anything about this country except it's lifestyle, and would rather abandon ship than stick it out and make a stand in their own land. Why should I accept that? Why should I honor that? Come on...

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» RE: what's the issue here? Posted by: drmeow
» RE: what's the issue here? Posted by: drmiller
» RE: what's the issue here? Posted by: Old Skeptic
» RE: what's the issue here? Posted by: blitzmesser
» RE: what's the issue here? Posted by: drmiller
Being "Pro-Immigration" is NOT a LeftWing View!!
Posted by: rebel_pig on Aug 22, 2006 2:52 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
the article says: Mansoor recently defended his decision to dismantle Costa Mesa's human rights commission in a letter to The Orange County Register: "When the government-funded committee was in existence the only beliefs it allowed were extreme-left views. ... People who said they believe illegal immigration was wrong were labeled 'racist.'"

This is an excellent example of how the overclass has been able to politically confuse this country with its control of media propaganda. Being pro-immigration is the OPPOSITE of being Left; instead it is RIGHT. The rich and powerful have ALWAYS wanted more immigration, and the working class has ALWAYS wanted less. The fact that the overclass has been able to confuse Right and Left speaks to their control of the media and propaganda success.

Mass immigration LOWERS wages by increasing supply of labor faster than demand for labor increases. THat is how the rich make money. THat is how CAPITAL makes profit. Capital and Labor are always on opposing sides. ALWAYS.

Capital wants more immgiration. Labor wants less. THe Rightwing is the side of Capital. The Leftwing is the side of Labor. That is how it really is.

The article says LEFTWING is the side that wants more immigration. WRONG! That is the RIGHTWING that wants more immigration.
Every time an immigrant comes to america and applies for a job, that adds one person to the pool of people competing for that job. As the number of applicants for a job goes up, the supply goes up. That means that the price will go down. THat is the law of supply and demand.

This article is written by a nonprofit foundation, which is funded by the upper class for the most part. Investigate it by clinking on the link by the author's name. The upper class funds these nonprofits. And they therefore tend to enforce the interests of their funders, the upper class. The upper class has most of the money in America. THe lower class has the labor. THese two sides are always opposed. Just like a buyer and a seller are always opposed. Someone wins and someone loses. THe overclass propaganda on immigration and Leftwing vs Rightwing helps the overclass win on immigration.

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Sniff test
Posted by: JPHickey on Aug 22, 2006 4:13 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This article is a biased opinion piece. How do I know? Well, because illegal immigrants are transmutted into mere immigrants. If I were a legal immigrant, I woudln't want to be clumped together with illegal immigrants.

Opinioins masquarading as news reports are emerging throughout the media. Even attempting to report opjectively has apparently become an unknown science.

Once the legal/illegal spin gets rolling, in my opinion, it immediately fails the sniff test! And it doesn't take this one long to meltdown into mental mire!

By the way, a recent article in the Arizona Republic, Mexico’s rich build dynasties, http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/0816grupos.html describes how many of the world's largest miltibillion dollar fortunes are now possed and generated by Mexicans. Isn't it wonderful how the trends in Mexico are being paralleled in the U.S.? The super-rich continue to consolidate the wealth while the working class and poor sink further into desparation. We can thank, in part, "leaders" like Calderon and Dubya for all-too-effective policies of contempt for "the masses" while glossing the whole matter with a patina of "democracy". What a crock!

P.S. It the Mexican billionaires use the U.S. as a dumping ground for their unwanted populations, I wonder what the U.S. elites have in mind for us when as we sink to a similar level of despartion? I imagine it ain't going to be a pretty picture! Take a gander at the NYT article "Rural Oregon feels the pinch" http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/20/us/20poverty.html?
_r=1&th&emc=th&oref=slogin

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» RE: Sniff test Posted by: TT2
» RE: Sniff test Posted by: harris
» Legal - schmegal Posted by: colinmeister
» RE: Legal - schmegal Posted by: JPHickey
drew
Posted by: drew on Aug 22, 2006 4:14 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I was interested in the note that other communities have pursued a more humanitarian, sanctuary response to the immagration hysteria. Those who promote conflict and expressions of animosity naturally draw attention and make for more dramatic coverage and outrage, but we could gain from exploring more peaceful and balanced approaches. Consider providing coverage of one of those communities and giving some publicity to productive alternatives.

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» RE: drew -- Sanctuary for this??? Posted by: Pat Kittle
Mesa
Posted by: rsaxto on Aug 22, 2006 4:31 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Costa Mesa is so poorly run by fanatics that we should evacuate the entire city and use a bunch of bulldozers to push all of its homes over the edges of their silly bluffs and charge admission so we could cheer every home's crashing fall to the bottom.

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» RE: Mesa Posted by: TT2
Loe Dobbs is the Imperial Grand Wazoogaboogaboo of the Ku Klux Klan
Posted by: marklar on Aug 22, 2006 4:48 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
After Lou Dobbs frothing at the mouth for months at 6pm on CNN over brown invaders breathing valauable U.S. oxygen it's no wonder white people are freaking out over the inventors of their enchaladas and Moo Goo Gai Pan. The white spaces in the USA belong to real Americans and those brown and red and yellow runts have taken all of the jobs, lowered the wages, sucked up social security, hogged hospital space and raised helath care cost and clogged up schools with foreign languages and force indonctrination of Spanish onto real American (white) children.
What's a racist to do?
For all of his cries against aliens taking over America I have never heard Dobbs ever complain about the Israelis high powered Lobby and their undue influence on our government. He's never siad a word about AIPAC and the $10,000,000,000.00 yearly welfare check we give to Israel in the form of cash, loan forgivenss and loans plus more i military supplies.
Yeah, I'd say Dobbs has his priorities straight. He claims that the biggest problem facing the U.S today is an undocumented worker earning money to feed his/her family. Not the billions of dollars that goes to Israel each year, or the billions spent on war, or the hypocracy of his own racist flames of indignation at an issue of human rights. Our God knows we are a Christian nation and it's better for illegal aliens if we show some tough love to those Mexicans and let either them starve or pull themselves up by their haurachi straps. Just do it somewhere else. God Damn Racist America.

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LOU DOBBS FOR PRESIDENT!
Posted by: krose on Aug 22, 2006 6:49 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I LIKE HIM JUST FINE, & AT LEAST WE MIGHT SAVE OUR MIDDLE CLASS!

AS IT STANDS NOW, IT IS JUST ABOUT GONE!

I KNOW NO ONE OUT THERE AT THIS TIME, WHO UNDERSTANDS THE ISSUES AS WELL AS HE!

SO I WOULD VOTE FOR HIM TO SAVE MY COUNTRY, & ITS MIDDLE CLASS, IN A "HEARTBEAT!"

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» RE: LOU DOBBS FOR PRESIDENT! Posted by: Lincoln fan
immigration
Posted by: colleenmarie1@comcast.net on Aug 22, 2006 7:11 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I want all illegals to go back to their respective countries - Mexican, Middle Eastern, European, South American. Don't care where they came from - if they're in the US illegally - send them back. From what I have observed, the "new" immigrant does not respect the culture, heritage, history, or traditions of the United States. I do not expect them to give up their culture but I do expect them to at least make an attempt to assimilate. Learning English would be a good start.

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» RE: immigration Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: immigration Posted by: colinmeister
» RE: immigration Posted by: colinmeister
» RE: immigration Posted by: AmeriPole
» RE: immigration Posted by: cmaciain
» RE: immigration Posted by: browngoddess
» RE: immigration Posted by: Logic's Edge
» RE: immigration Posted by: krose
This is NOT a racial issue
Posted by: playitsam on Aug 22, 2006 7:34 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Many Hispanics view any anti-illegal immigration laws as being blatantly racist. Sorry, that just doesn't wash no matter what the writer thinks. Yes, I'm sure some people just don't like anyone with brown skin. However the majority of people just want illegal immigration to end. This is NOT a conservative or a liberal issue. Illegal immigration is a serious hardship for health care, education and law enforcement. In addition, illegals are taking the jobs of the working poor who are American citizens and legal immigrants. New Orleans is a good example. Construction and hotel work is being given to illegals at the expense of locals. This is unacceptable.

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» RE: This is NOT a racial issue Posted by: browngoddess
What Lou Dobbs doesn't say.
Posted by: Lauren on Aug 22, 2006 7:52 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Please keep in mind Mexicans are for the most part Indians or Native Americans. That's the interesting fact Lou always dances around. He and the white shareholders he represents don't want to accept the liabilities the United States owes towards these people. Have you ever read any treaties? It is a huge chunk of federal law, lots of agreements have been broken. Lots of desendants fled to the four winds. California is for the most part hip to that. New York city newsfolk, on the other hand, are pretty much clueless about that. They are in denial, or well their owners are. It is financially expedient.

What would happen to the political landscape of the globe if the native people of America culturally reunited? That is the big fear of the white supremists. They are a very dominate race. You can see the traces of that all around the world, especially in India with the caste system and in America with slavery and the treatment of Indians. This story is so interesting because it describes beautifully the bubble the supremist people live in, the wall.

The problem they dont want anyone to examine closely is who really is the illegal, the trespasser? Native inhabitants returning to ancestrial homeland or agressive invaders fiercely defending their siezed properties?

They better take that dirt clod throwing kid seriously. As Hezbollah is demonstrating, kids like that can be turned into armies, all you need is money and leadership. Do they really want that to happen? Is it really worth it?

What exactly is being defended Lou, when you talk about a way of life that is under attack? Who's way of life was attacked with the settling of America?

Mexican culture is an interesting mix of Native American and European. United States American is a different mix of Native American and European. I think it is very exciting for these two different cultures to get to know each other. It is like we are all on a big first date in a way.

And there is Lou Dobbs, sitting off at another table carping and making snide remarks. You know it is going to totally ruin the date, but will it ruin our relationship? Or, are we all going to be great friends laughing about this someday? (The brilliance of native culture, it will take a while but it will show through.) I'm not betting on Lou's Dobbs success.

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» RE: What Lou Dobbs doesn't say. Posted by: SekhmetsatRa
» RE: What Lou Dobbs doesn't say. Posted by: montana freeman
Illegal Immigration Helps America
Posted by: SubBass49 on Aug 22, 2006 7:56 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As much as some people want to deny it, illegal immigration actually helps Americans. Before you all jump down my throat, hear me out.

1. What keeps produce prices low?

If illegal immigration ends, farmers will need to pay at least minimum wage to all their workers. Do you think they'll swallow the difference, or pass it on to consumers, directly hurting the lower & middle class? Think about it.

2. Do you know how federal school funding works?

If illegal immigrants and their children were rounded up tomorrow and deported, do you have any idea how much funding would be lost by low-income urban schools due to an enormous drop in student enrollment? Do you really want the already under-funded urban poor to recieve EVEN LESS education funding? Here's a hint...it would lead to higher class sizes, higher drop-out rates, more crime, more incarceration....which all is MORE EXPENSIVE THAN JUST KEEPING ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS HERE IN THE FIRST PLACE.

So yeah...we can discuss this till we turn blue in the face, but until those issues are addressed none of this will make a drop of sense to me or anyone else who actually thought about the issue past a knee-jerk reaction to the buzz words of "invasion," "hordes," "illegals," and "amnesty."

PS - when did amnesty become a bad word? Just curious.

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Take a look at the UK for some answers
Posted by: Bobsays on Aug 22, 2006 8:18 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Brits have been operating an open door, no border controls policy for the past seven years. The result? Wages and conditions have dropped, public services are overloaded to breaking point, and the tension on the streets has shot up.

It is an excellent case study in the problems thrown up by uncontrolled migration. While many posters on Alternet hold the view that workers displaced by migrants are just lazy people, it fails to get to grips with some obvious trends.

We need to ask why our societies over time create a population that is lazy and unwilling to work. We also need to ask if it is entirely the solution to introduce on mass huge waves of 'hard working' migrants to discipline this population. We need to ask if this policy is working (and I judge from peoples complaints about 'lazy' blacks, and white trash), that it does not.

We need to get our poor back in the workforce, we need to get them trained, we need to get their communities to be positive places. We do not need to flood those areas with low-wage workers, with the intention of just further marginalising these people. Our crime stats show what happens.

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Overpopulation
Posted by: prairiedog on Aug 22, 2006 8:54 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
is the problem underlying all this controversy. IT can't be solved until THAT problem is addressed. Any ideas on how to do that? I'll bet any answer you give will be labeled "racist", "nazi", "inhumane", etc. Realistically, disease, war, and famine will probably solve the problem for us. It won't be pretty.

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» RE: Overpopulation Posted by: Bobsays
» RE: Overpopulation Posted by: TT2
» RE: Overpopulation Posted by: TT2
Strike the match
Posted by: fafnir on Aug 22, 2006 8:58 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Not only should the illegals be run out of Costa Mesa, they should be run out of the country. Furthermore, the illegal employers who hire them and the illegal landlords who shelter them should be punished severely.

The race-baiting angle of this article is a red-herring that obfuscates the federal government's negligence in not enforcing the nation's immigration laws. Local communities have had to take up the slack to do the job that the feds don't want to do. In New Jersey, for instance, identification requirement changes for driver licenses have convinced many Irish illegals to self-deport back to their home country.

If big business and their do-gooder, open border pals on the Left don't want the law enforced against illegals, their employers, and their landlords then why enforce the laws on those who commit other crimes?

Taking this absurd reasoning by the open border lobby to its necessary conclusion means that the nation should tear down its borders and open the jail and prison doors.
 
The lack of strong, consistent enforcement is crux of the illegal alien problem. If employers and landlords are aggressively prosecuted, illegals would have little reason to cross the border when no one will hire or shelter them. Additionally, without a job or a place to stay, many illegals will self-deport over time.

In other words, we’ve must turn off the job magnet attracting illegals to come here in the first place.

So, congrats to Costa Mesa, Hazelton, Pa, and other cities across the nation for standing up to do the right thing for their communities.

And to the illegals across the country: Step.

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» RE: Strike the match Posted by: TT2
» RE: Strike the match Posted by: TT2
» RE: Strike the match Posted by: fafnir
» RE: Strike the match Posted by: montana freeman
NAFTA and Immigration
Posted by: Oryoki on Aug 22, 2006 9:00 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I recall reading that the flow of undocumented workers increased dramatical as a result of NAFTA. Mexican and U.S Agrabiz put a lot of small farm operations out of business. There was a great loss of local jobs.

Perhaps we should look at a larger picture. No one wants to leave their family and community for the unknown without good cause. Did we (US policy) create this 'good cause'?.

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» RE: NAFTA and Immigration Posted by: rhinojos
» Open borders Posted by: YogiBear
» Ross Perot was right Posted by: marklar
» RE: NAFTA and Immigration Posted by: YogiBear
One other example of how illegal immigration is a problem.
Posted by: Sojourner on Aug 22, 2006 9:14 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Gangs prosper in my community because illegals are reluctant to report crimes committed in their neighborhoods. If they report crimes, they may draw attention to themselves and get deported.

Consequently, such neighborhoods are breeding grounds for gangs.

It seems to me an issue of either grandfathering in to citizenship those already here or a massive INS operation to deport. Maybe there are other choices, but the police as immigration authorities is spitting in the wind.

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Why can't they?
Posted by: cmaciain on Aug 22, 2006 12:52 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I've asked this question before to people and still can't get an answer. Why can't they(illegal immigrants) legalize themselves? I haven't found anyone who can answer that question. Why can't the immigrants apply legally? I think immigration is great--the ILLEGAL part is what I have problems with. I would love to immigrate; in fact, I've recieved information on how to do so. I certainly can't simply cross the border and set up house. So why can't undocumented workers apply to immigrate? I'm trying to understand. One friend mentioned it was expensive. I understand that. I saw the price of a visa for myself and winced. But I would have to pay it if I immigrate. What other reasons prevent them from becoming legal?

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» It's not as easy as you think Posted by: colinmeister
» More personal experiences. Posted by: colinmeister
» And expensive... Posted by: Sojourner
A legal immigrant's point of view
Posted by: tashi on Aug 22, 2006 1:31 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I came to US to study engineering. Graduated from an elite school in Boston. Found a job in the high-tech sector, and have since been working and living in Boston area as a naturalized citizen.
The couple who clean my house are from Dominican Republic. The guys who maintain my yards are from Mexico. I hired a Brazilian to fix the roof, and the guy who did the patio work was a recent Italian immigrant.
All of these guys did/do an exceptional job. And I have been very satisfied with each of them. They work very hard, and don't have any attitude problems. I also know that some of these guys came to US illegally. And eventually got a legal status either through amnesty or through marriage.
I work in high-tech sector where a very high percentage of innovation is done by immigrants. Without immigrants (legal and illegal) this country would come to a stand still.
Americans have become complacent. They would rather watch hours of mind-numbing reality tv show, then actually do any real work. No wonder most of them are obese!
Check out any of the Graduate programs in Science and Technology and you will find an incredible number of immigrants/foreign Professors and students. In the same schools, in evenings hard-working immigrants come and clean up.
As I said before, this country will come to a dead stop without us immigrants!

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An American's Point of View
Posted by: VisionQuest on Aug 22, 2006 2:03 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I find it fascinating that the same people who will accuse anyone who opposes illegal immigration of racism are so comfortable promoting nasty, belittling stereotypes of Americans: they are fat and lazy, have "attitudes," are "complacent," only wish to watch mind-numbing television, and their country would come to a dead stop without hard-working immigrants, presumably because their fat- and tv-addled brains are incapable of the kind of innovation that only immigrants can provide them. It is a wonder that such people managed to somehow build a country that many people want to immigrate to.

I also find it fascinating that the same people protesting for "solidarity" seem to have no sense of solidarity with American workers, and simply accept their bosses viewpoint that American workers are "lazy" and have "attitudes" when they reject poorly paid employment, complain about dangerous working conditions, or seek to organize on their jobs.

For me, it is this disturbing conservatism and consistent identification with the interests of capital that I find most unfortunate about the current wave of immigration--and acknowledgment of this conservatism is what we find absent from the mainstream left analysis of the immigration issue. So little insight into what has really made American workers so angry.

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» RE: An American's Point of View Posted by: Camin Harner
» RE: An American's Point of View Posted by: VisionQuest
» RE: An American's Point of View Posted by: Camin Harner
Legal immigration YES, illegal NO
Posted by: hapibeli on Aug 22, 2006 4:44 PM   
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Once again, I have to repeat; if we the people force our legislators and law enforcement, and most of all, the courts, to make hiring undocumented workers a VERY expensive proposition, illegal immigration will dry up! If the jobs aren't here, those suffering under their own governments won't come here. There is no need for us to act as a safety valve for countries that won't traet there populace well. If our legislators are forced to take away the tax breaks given to corporations who send jobs oofshore, if the corporations are persuaded to hire Americans , if farm workers, waitpersons, laborers, retail workers, domestics, are paid family living wages, if we have single payer health care, car insurance "at the pump", and if our retirement systems are not sucked dry by greedy corporatists and corrupt government, we will have all the well paid labor we need to complete the tasks necessary in running our society. We MUST stop this anti-democratic, corporate owned government from continuing to abuse our constitution, our environment, our way of life, and the lives and environments of people here in America and prople elsewhere around the globe.
Vote Democratic, far from perfect, but soooo much better than what is in control today.

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Illegal Immigration is a HIGHLY regressive tax...
Posted by: jiminator on Aug 22, 2006 5:56 PM   
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Those who benefit from illegal immigration tend to be rich or upper-middle-class types who either own a business that depends on the labour of illegal aliens, or use them as domestic servants. These people almost invariably live in neighborhoods that are far too expensive for immigrants to live in, so the rich benefit from their labor without paying many of the social costs associated with illegal immigration.

The working class and the lower-middle-class, by contrast, benefit relatively little from illegal labor (since they do not own businesses or make use of maids or gardeners), while they must pay higher property and sales taxes to defray the costs associated with illegals: over-crowded schools, hospitals, jails, and court dockets.

When will liberals step back from political correctness long enough to address the class war that is being waged here? The rich are the only ones benefitting from this state of affairs. Ordinary, working-class Americans are being victimized.

Is it really 'racism' to fear for one's own standard of living? Or for the stability and viability of the country? If this were so, then we would be forced to conclude that racism had indeed gone mainstream! But I don't think that's the case here--at least not yet. But if nothing is done about this issue fast, I fear it won't be long before some enterprising young demagogue comes along and tries to turn this increasingly dreadful state of affairs to his own benefit. This place could well end up becoming a very big Bosnia-Herzegovina. That would be a real shame, so let's hope it's not too late to do something about this problem...

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County Has the Right to Enforce Laws
Posted by: 1rufus1 on Aug 23, 2006 3:39 AM   
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Any city, county, or state has the right to enforce any or all laws as it sees fit. Why don't the illegal immigrants in that county file a civil rights violation suit to keep them from being thrown out or deported? Because, duh, they are breaking the law. If you don't want law enforcement to enforce laws, don't make it against the law to come across the border at your own desire. If you let one group get away with breaking the law, then let everyone do as they wish.

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The wretched refuse
Posted by: sarahk on Aug 23, 2006 6:16 AM   
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Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!

-inscription on the Statue of Liberty

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» RE: The wretched refuse Posted by: YogiBear
there is NO immigrant problem;
Posted by: Doubtom on Aug 23, 2006 9:15 AM   
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we suffer from a propaganda assault perpetrated by the Illegal immigrants who in reality are illegal entrants. They are not immigrants!

These illegal entrants, are engaging in criminal activity with the excuse that they are merely seeking better jobs. Not jobs but BETTER jobs. How this excuses illegal activity is beyond my comprehension. Moreover how this seeking of better jobs should automatically qualify anyone for extra assistance from the host country is also hard to grasp. On top of all this, seemingly, is their need for sympathy from the host country. Now why they're unable to garner sympathy from their native country seems not to occupy much of their thoughts.
Mexico, from which most of these unfortunates derive, is getting a free ride in not addressing the reasons why a large percentage of its population is crashing the borders of another sovereign nation. Instead it is demanding, through many organizations and activities, that these foreign citizens be granted all the priviledges of the citizens of the nation they have invaded. Invasion is not too strong a term when you consider that we're speaking of millions of these illegal entrants. Invasion is an act off war, especially when it is sanctioned by the invading government.
All this leaves untouched the reasons behind this wholesale criminal activity, and much could be written about NAFTA, CAFTA and similar government machinations which negatively impact the poorest segment of these nations, but does any of this justify criminal activity? Shouldn't Mexican citizens be addressing their problems to their own government? Why is Vincente Fox more concerned with how his citizens are treated in the USA than in his own nation?

Isn't someone getting a "free ride" while we're left to wonder what is wrong with our "immigration system" which heretofor has been a model for the world?
There is NO immigration problem! Stop the Propaganda!

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"IMMIGRATION". HERE WE GO AGAIN. Not much has
Posted by: SamFox on Aug 23, 2006 1:07 PM   
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changed on the posts. I already sounded off on the other AlterNet 'immigration' lead story.

Illegal is again pretty much ignored as a pre-fix for immigration by pro-illegal posters. Sympahty is again sought for illegal immigrants.

I would again ask: Why not do as Mexico does? They call illegals there felons & give them two yr. prison terms. They have military & high tech on their side of the line. If US catorgizing illegal imm. as a Fed. misdomeanor is racist, Mexico's catargory of FELON makes them what? Genicidal? It at least makes Mexico more racist than us if we define pro-illegal poster's definition of racism both ways. Mexican laws are more strictly enforced & they put their illegals in prison. Mexican Gov. would never tolorate the marches ect. like we have, where those who have no citizan rights demand them. Do that in Mexico & any survivors would be jailed.

Again I invite pro-illegal & amnisty supporters to put THEIR money where their mouth is. Invite 20-30 illegals into your home. Let them take over your house & yard. Give them your credit cards, bank accounts & car. After all, your property lines are just arbitrary borders defining your residence on the block of your community. If you want the rest of the country open to illegals, show true support for your pro illegal verbage by erasing YOUR property lines. If it is good enough for the rest of the US make it good enough for you, pro-illegal & amnisty supporter. Marrying one won't count till you have their bros, sisters, aunts, uncles & their friends living with you also. Other wise you may continue with two tongued hippacrite written on your forhead.

For a good picture of problems caused by illigal immigration go to NewWithViews.com. Read Frosty Wooldridge & others there. Frosty documents the diseases some of them bring. At ImmigrationsHumanCost.org you can get crime wave stats. NumbersUSA & ALIPAC also have documented stats & info.

Devvy Kidd & others at NWVs document the sellout of the USA to the New World Order. Illegal immigration is only one of the tools of Cap. Hill's treasonous Benidict Iscarriot Club. Open borders undermine the sovreingty of any nation. Ask old Rome. Selling out the USA has been going on for decades. Dems are just as culpable as Repubs. as both are now NWO shills. The UN is another (check out CODEX). The bottom line is to force the USA into the North American Union w/Ameros for currancy. Nest stop- One World Gov.

Before calling me racist, see my reply to that false charge at the other AlterNet site.

SamFox

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Bad for the environment
Posted by: albrechtkrausse on Aug 23, 2006 1:37 PM   
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Everyone focuses on the crime, poverty, healthcare costs, etc for the illegal workers. Yes, that is all true, however it is, somewhat, offset by the cheap labour and tax profits (from sales taxes since the illegals won't pay income tax.) The bigger problem is the vast environmental damage the illegals cause to our country and to Mexico. They have literally ruined pristine desert environments by causing erosion, leaving human waste on open ground, cutting fences allowing livestock to wander and ruin land, and leaving mountains of trash unrecycled along their route. Once in the US they tend to live in many people per house against all housing codes. This leads to more trash, fire safety issues, plumbing backups, illegal disposals of human excrement, and more congestion for our cities. They also, by providing cheap labour, are promoting the urban sprawl that is killing America since they build all the track housing and cheaply made and shoddy houses spreading across our environment like a wildfire. Stop the killing of the environment. Build a fence and keep the illegals out!

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» RE: Bad for the environment Posted by: montana freeman
» RE: Bad for the environment Posted by: montana freeman
» RE: Bad for the environment Posted by: Doubtom
» RE: Bad for the environment Posted by: Pat Kittle
» RE: Bad for the environment Posted by: albrechtkrausse
IMMIGRATION IS NOT THE ANSWER
Posted by: Arrington on Aug 26, 2006 9:20 AM   
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The following is from my blog, www.bloglines.com/blog/Arrrington

IMMIGRATION IS NOT THE ANSWER

Liberalizing our immigration laws would be harmful to the U. S., to the immigrants themselves, and, in the longer run, harmful to Mexico also.

First of all, a continuation or acceleration of Mexican immigration would drive US wages down to the point where the immigrants would find themselves as poor as ever, just poor in a colder and less familiar world. It would also overwhelm any hope the US has of maintaining, let alone improving, its already low standard of public education. The same would be true of our health care and other social service systems. In the longer run, noone would benefit. All this is already the direction we are heading unless we stem the flow of illegal immigration.

And what does all this immigration do for Mexico itself? It enables the country to continue to avoid dealing effectively with the reason its citizens want to leave, namely the fact that its economic and political life is dysfunctional. It is dysfunctional chiefly because of corruption, a corruption that continues because very few Mexicans believe that it can ever be different.

There are things we could do that would help Mexico. First of all, we could stop wasting billions and billions of dollars on our totally ineffective “War Against Drugs.” There is no evidence that drug use is less because drugs are illegal; their illegality just serves to make their production and marketing very profitable. It also creates a whole narcocriminal class throughout Latin America, a class whose financial power makes it impossible for those countries to fight corruption in general. We should have a much less expensive war against drugs that focuses solely on education and treatment. Of course, legal, taxed drugs would not be profitable enough to support a large criminal class of producers and pushers, and that would help reduce crime and lower the outrageously high U. S. prison population as well as helping Mexico and other countries. And ending the current “War Against Drugs” would free up money for some really helpful economic aid to Mexico and other Latin countries.

We could also help the whole world by ceasing to spend billions upon billions of dollars on military adventures all over the world, adventures designed to enable us to meddle in the political and economic affairs of other countries. We have been doing this for decades and it has not been good for us or anyone else. Apart from providing humanitarian and economic aid, we should leave others to run their own affairs. The best way to promote democracy is to be a shining example; unfortunately, we are becoming less democratic at present. We need to turn that around. In short, we need to remove the beam from our own eye.

Finally, all the people of this planet need to start realizing that with the end of cheap fossil fuel upon us, we need to focus on developing technologies and lifestyles that will be sustainable without cheap fossil fuels. Economic globalization will greatly diminish as the fuel to to move goods becomes very expensive. We will all need to learn to be content to stay home more and develop more local self sufficiency. We need to take the longer view. And we need to realize that the heart of the real answer to the underlying problem is controlling population growth, in fact, even achieving slow population decline.

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YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY CORRECT!
Posted by: krose on Aug 26, 2006 7:11 PM   
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THE ONLY CONTRIBUTION THAT "IMMIGRANTS MADE" to the "high tech" sector, is the LOW SALARY FACTOR! My son, a quality "high tech" professional, with years of experience to his credit, and a wonderful education, was forced to take a job in Japan, because of all the "immigrants" (both legal and illegal) coming in hoards to take the high tech jobs in his own country at greatly reduced salaries. Soon, it will be happening to the so-called "immigrants," too, because these corporations will not be satisfied with the lower salaries they are now paying. They will seek lower, and lower, and lower salaries, if they are allowed to get away with what they are getting away with! This is lunacy, and it is the way of Bush and his REPUKES! ALL OF YOU WHO SUPPORT HIM AND THEM, WILL GET YOUR JUST REWARDS, AND YOU DESERVE WHATEVER YOU GET!

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Costa Mesa's Rear View Mirror
Posted by: hotlipsin61 on Aug 28, 2006 12:41 PM   
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Costa Mesa is like a driver who constantly looks at life from a rear-view mirror: Each time the driver looks up, the view is different: a montage of scenes, events which the driver cannot contemplate in its neighborhoods. And now the driver took a wrong turn somewhere, is lost, the signs are in another language, and there's no one to turn to for help.
The driver is afraid to get out and see that all isn't as bad it may seem, despite the presence of foreigners in their midst. Not everyone is out to disrupt the quality of life in CM.
Costa Mesa is a beautiful city, orderly, graffiti-free, looks much like most of Orange County's cities, but it's acting a little xenophobic.
It's almost "A Day Without A Mexican" is being played live on CM's streets.
Well, CM, it's no different in Los Angeles. CM has to get used to the view. The mirror doesn't lie.

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