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A Split In the Racist Right

By Heidi Beirich and Mark Potok, SPLC Intelligence Report. Posted August 16, 2006.


A rift has opened between those who see blacks, Hispanics and Muslims as the primary enemy, and those who blame Jews for every evil.
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For a gathering of people devoted to denouncing the inferiority of blacks and sounding the alarm about civilization-threatening Muslims, the biannual conferences thrown by the New Century Foundation, publisher of the racist newsletter American Renaissance, are decidedly genteel affairs. Men dress in suits and ties, women in formal business attire, and there are no uniformed skinheads or Klansmen to be seen. Large plasma television screens, Starbucks coffee spreads and fancy linens adorn the hotel meeting hall. Epithets have no place here.

Or at least they didn't. At the latest edition of the conferences that began in 1994, held this February at the Hyatt Dulles hotel, a nasty spat broke out that upset the gathering's decorum -- and may even shape the future of the radical right.

It began when David Duke, the former Klan leader and author of Jewish Supremacism, strode to a microphone after French author Guillaume Faye wrapped up a talk vilifying Muslims entitled "The Threat to the West." Duke thanked Faye for remarks that "touched my genes." But then he went one further.

"There is a power in the world that dominates our media, influences our government and that has led to the internal destruction of our will and spirit," Duke said, according to an undisputed account in The Forward newspaper.

"Tell us, tell us," someone in the back yelled.

"I'm not going to say it," Duke replied. Laughter began to fill the room, until a short, angry man leaped from his seat, walked up to Duke and began to curse.

"You fucking Nazi, you've disgraced this meeting!" he said.

And with that, Michael Hart, a Jewish astrophysicist and long-time attendee at American Renaissance conferences, headed for the door. As many as 50 people at the conference began to jeer and point at the rapidly disappearing Hart.

This extraordinary incident marked the beginning of an open rift between those on the radical right who see blacks, Hispanics and Muslims as the primary enemy, and those who say "the Jews" are ultimately behind every evil -- a split that has usually stayed just below the surface but now threatens a leading institution of American extremism. While in the past he has managed to bridge this divide mainly by ignoring it, American Renaissance founder Jared Taylor now must finally come to terms with the split. His dilemma boils down to this: Throw out the anti-Semites and try to build a larger movement with electoral possibilities like those increasingly seen in Britain and Germany; or openly join hands with the very energetic neo-Nazis, even though that means the loss of any remaining shred of respectability.

"These are the makings of a major schism," wrote Shawn Mercer, co-founder and moderator of American Renaissance's AR List, an E-mail group. "If American Renaissance ultimately fails as a result of this donnybrook at the convention, it will be a sad, possibly fatal turn of events for the future of whites."

Jews and the radical right

The traditional enemy of the American radical right, going back to the Civil War and even before, has been the black man. Given the numbers of voters who would be created by enfranchising former slaves -- and the historical fact that blacks outnumbered whites in many southern counties -- that is no surprise. But radical anger also has been directed throughout U.S. history at each new wave of foreign immigrants, and, in both the 19th century and the 20th, that included Jews.

European anti-Semitism made its way across the ocean as well, infecting Americans with ideas about secret Jewish plans for world domination and alleged ritual practices like the murder of Christian children. Increasingly, hatred of Jews filtered into groups like the Klan -- most famously, in 1915, when the group was reborn on the strength of the lynching of Jewish businessman Leo Frank of Atlanta. (Frank was falsely accused of the rape and murder of a 12-year-old girl.)

In the 1920s, auto tycoon Henry Ford published anti-Semitic treatises culminating in the book, The International Jew. In the following decade, Father Charles Coughlin, a radical Catholic, railed against Jews in radio broadcasts heard by millions. There followed a brief lull in anti-Semitism due to revelations about the Nazi genocide, but it wasn't long before Jew-hatred came roaring back.

This was partly due to the spread of Christian Identity, a radical theology that claims that Jews are biologically descended from Satan and are the chief enemy of the white man. This ideology, which increasingly crept into traditionally Christian groups like the Klan, helped to start the broad-based change that has occurred over the last half century or so -- the Nazification of the American radical right. Growing anti-Semitism also reflected the view of many segregationists that Jews were behind the black civil rights movement of the 1950s and 1960s. The bombings of several Southern synagogues by white supremacists underlined this conviction.

In recent decades, however, mainstream American society has rejected anti-Semitism, to the point where it is generally seen as more acceptable to voice ugly views of blacks than Jews. And this has not been lost on certain sectors of the radical right that have become increasingly interested in gaining real political power. Given recent developments in the United States -- especially large-scale Latin American immigration and the threat of radical Islamist terror -- these sectors have wondered if it wasn't better to direct their hate at people of color, rather than Jews who are seen by most Americans as white. Seeing the electoral success of neofascists in Germany and Britain who aim their wrath at dark-skinned immigrants and Muslims generally, many American radical leaders have sought to dispense with anti-Semitism.

Black attack

In 1990, Jared Taylor, a Yale graduate who had spent 17 years working in Japan, joined the active white supremacist scene with his launching of American Renaissance, a magazine focusing on the alleged links between race and intelligence and on eugenics, the discredited "science" of breeding better human beings. The magazine scrupulously avoided racist epithets, employed the language of academic journals, and sought to put a palatable face on hate (though that didn't stop Taylor from describing blacks as "deviant," dissipated" and "pathological," or later writing a booklet that claimed that blacks are far more "crime-prone" than whites).

At the same time, Taylor made it clear that he had no problem with Jews. At the group's very first conference, held in Atlanta in 1994, the dinner speaker was a rabbi named Mayer Schiller, and the meal was kosher. Taylor banned discussion of the so-called "Jewish question" from American Renaissance venues, and, by 1997, had kicked Holocaust deniers and neo-Nazis off his E-mail list. In recent years, a growing number of Jews have attended Taylor's conferences.

But Taylor, who operates in a world that is peopled with anti-Semites as well as black-bashing "white nationalists," also tried to have it both ways. Atlanta lawyer Sam Dickson, for instance, has been invited to speak at every one of Taylor's biannual conferences -- despite a long history of Holocaust denial that includes membership on the editorial board of The Barnes Review, a journal that specializes in that topic. Joe Sobran, a columnist fired from the National Review for his anti-Semitism and repeat author for the Holocaust-denying Journal of Historical Review, gave a speech on Jewish power at Taylor's 2004 conference. Don Black, the former Klan leader who runs the neo-Nazi Stormfront web forum, has attended many conferences and visited Taylor's home. Another attendee and old Taylor pal, Mark Weber, heads up the Holocaust-denying Institute for Historical Review.

Taylor, whose journal and conferences were fast becoming key institutions of the American radical right, tried to keep internal peace. But that was not to be.

In 2003, a remarkable E-mail debate between the late racist writer Sam Francis and neo-Nazi lawyer Victor Gerhard was made public by Gerhard. In it, Francis, widely regarded as the leading white nationalist intellectual in America, lambasted Gerhard, who had been an official of the neo-Nazi National Alliance, for his views of the Jews. He denounced what he saw as "a monomaniacal obsession with the omnipotent Jew" and instead discussed the threat of blacks and Hispanics. The E-mail exchange was widely circulated on the American radical right.

The same period saw several groups -- the Social Contract Press, the Charles Martel Society (publisher of The Occidental Quarterly), the Pioneer Fund, the Council of Conservative Citizens and the recently formed National Policy Institute -- focus in on the perceived ills of blacks, Hispanics and Muslims. Joining them was a new crop of racist intellectuals with no interest in the Jews.

Taylor, it seemed, could not stop the inevitable. The split between those who saw Jews as the primary enemy and the others was bubbling to the surface.

Battle of words

The biggest threat to Jared Taylor's balancing act has always been David Duke, the former leader of the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan who has also been a convinced neo-Nazi since his teens. Duke, who came close to winning a campaign for Louisiana governor in 1992, was for years a celebrity on the radical right. Still, Taylor has sought to discourage Duke from attending his American Renaissance conferences ever since Duke crashed the first one in 1994. But even in years when he didn't enter the hall, Duke was often found outside, talking to participants.

It wasn't just Duke, either. Over the years, more and more participants at Taylor's conferences were Duke allies -- most notably, Don Black and supporters of Black's Stormfront website, including Stormfront moderator Jamie Kelso.

This year, the Duke/Black/Kelso crew was larger than ever. In an interview with the Intelligence Report, Kelso said that he had organized a contingent of some 75 Stormfront supporters to come to the conference. And these supporters were the most enthusiastic members of the 300-strong audience, standing and applauding each speaker after receiving the signal to do so from Kelso. They were also not the only anti-Semites present. Others, not affiliated with Stormfront, included Kevin Alfred Strom of Virginia, leader of the neo-Nazi National Vanguard group; Hal Turner, a neo-Nazi radio host from New Jersey; and David Pringle of Alaska, the former membership coordinator of the neo-Nazi National Alliance.

As a result, the Duke-Hart clash, which occurred on the last day of the conference, rapidly assumed epic proportions, spinning out across the entire radical right. Just days later, Duke published an essay on the conference, expressing deep admiration for Taylor as a man with the courage to tell the truth on race. But he went on to say that non-white immigration and a host of other ills "all have been driven by Jewish extremists in their relentless search for supremacy." Hart, Duke added tartly, had risen "in an almost perfect Jewish caricature and started to scream at me."

That set off an often testy back-and-forth between the two sides.

From London, Nick Griffin, a conference speaker who also heads the whites-only British National Party, denounced those who see behind every evil some kind of "world-Jewish conspiracy." Griffin's BNP, which harshly attacks Muslims and other British minorities, made major electoral gains this May -- a success that Griffin thinks would be undermined by neo-Nazi attacks on Jews. In his essay, Griffin suggested that Jews are a natural ally in the battle against Islam.

Black, on the other hand, threatened to pull his anti-Semitic supporters out of Taylor's conferences. "I guess that would solve the overcrowding problem," Black wrote. "Not only would he cut loose the ... Stormfronters, but, should he apply such an ideological filter [barring anti-Semites], about 90% of his other attendees."

Lawrence Auster, a former American Renaissance speaker who also is a Christian convert with Jewish ancestry, chimed in on his own blog, describing Duke as "a major Jew-hater and an attention hog" and asking Taylor how he could be so "naïve as to allow Duke to attend at all." Another poster to Auster's site added, "It is imperative that neo-Nazis be asked to leave AR. ... European-Americans need to be assured they can affirm themselves and still be decent human beings."

In the end, nearly every "intellectual" on the white nationalist scene was pulled into the debate. So hot was the months-long exchange, in fact, that more than half a dozen major racist thinkers agreed to speak to be interviewed for this article.

Rejecting the Nazis

Virtually all those who denounced anti-Semitism and "Nazis" had no such compunctions when it came to people of color, particularly blacks. Herschel Elias, for instance, said that as a Jewish substitute teacher in public schools near Philadelphia, "I'm very disappointed with black people. Black kids are the worst kids." But he added that he now saw the conference as a "Nazi front."

Another Jew, retired University of Illinois political science professor Robert Weissberg, was a long-time supporter of American Renaissance who spoke at two conferences. In 2000, he argued that Jews and blacks despise one another, but that Jews are even more afraid of white nationalists and so had tended to support policies that empower minorities. Weissberg told the Report that he considered Taylor a friend and had been to his house "on several occasions." But he went on to say that Duke was a "tax evader" (Duke recently served time in federal prison for mail fraud and tax violations) and "provocateur," and that his Stormfront allies were "losers." He said that both Duke and the Stormfronters should be "disinvited" by Taylor.

The list goes on. In separate interviews, numerous "academic racists" complained of the neo-Nazi element at the conference:


  • Michael Levin, a Jewish philosophy professor at the City University of New York who has spoken four times at American Renaissance conferences, said that there was "anti-Semitism among members of AR" and that this was part of the reason he did not attend the 2006 edition. (However, Levin still plugs his black-bashing book, Why Race Matters, in ads in American Renaissance.)

  • Paul Gottfried, a humanities professor with Jewish ancestry at Elizabethtown (Penn.) College, spoke to the conference in 1998 and has published in American Renaissance. But he said he is dismayed at the current situation. "I cannot imagine any advantage to anyone to have these people there," he said.

  • William Regnery, the extreme-right publisher who also founded and financially backs the Charles Martel Society and the National Policy Institute, dismissed Duke's anti-Semitism, saying simply, "We don't sanction it."

  • Gordon Baum, the St. Louis-based CEO of the racist Council of Conservative Citizens, has Taylor on his editorial board and fights to preserve the "racial integrity" of white people. But, he said, the CCC welcomes Jews. And, adding that the CCC has no interest in "skinheads," Baum rapped Duke for believing that "race isn't even important, all that is important is the Jewish issue."

  • Baum's new editor for the CCC's publication, Citizens Informer, seconded his boss' opinions. "Attacking people with Jewish lines of descent is complete nonsense," Joel LeFevre told the Report, adding that he was "very put off by Mr. Duke's behavior" at the conference. Separately, LeFevre wrote on the AR List that Duke and his "puerile loser" followers should be banned. "Duke has his own conference where he can rant about the Jews all he wants," he said.

  • Jared Taylor, also said, "European Jews are certainly welcome" at American Renaissance conferences. "I don't think that Jews are the enemy in the way that some people do." As a matter of fact, Taylor came out against Nazism as early as 1983, in his book, Shadows of the Rising Sun: A Critical View of the 'Japanese Miracle', where Germany was praised for outlawing national socialism. In addition, Jews write regularly in American Renaissance and have spoken at every one of its conferences.



At the crossroads

Two months after the conference, on April 14, Jared Taylor went public. Responding to a letter from a group of supporters including several Jews, he posted a statement to his website that seemed to take clear sides. Under the title, "Jews and American Renaissance," Taylor said that Jews "have a valuable role" to play, and told those who didn't agree that they had the choice of "staying home" or of keeping their anti-Semitism private. He wrote that American Renaissance's role is to rescue white civilization, not dig up a "Jewish conspiracy." And Taylor explicitly rebuked Duke, saying his "disgraceful behavior" would not be tolerated in the future.

Within 48 hours, Taylor's statement had generated 168 responses. Two days later, there were more than 300. The reaction from anti-Semites was harsh, with many claiming that their erstwhile ally was actually in the pay of "the Jews."

Cal Rogers, an American Renaissance staffer who headed up an E-mail list of Taylor critics, quit the group, saying he was "diametrically opposed" to Taylor's views. Jess David Peterson wrote in to say that Taylor's writings had been removed from Peterson's Nationalist Party USA website. On Stormfront, Elena Haskins, a hate website proprietress, scoffed at those "who require their friend the rabbi to pat them on their heads and tushies." Ron Doggett, a Duke factotum, suggested Taylor was unfortunately sending America's anti-Semites packing. Don Black called Taylor's statement "disastrous." Another neo-Nazi said it was "a devastating miscalculation."

At the same time, Taylor was being lobbied by Jews and others who argued that the only way forward for American Renaissance was to drop those with neo-Nazi leanings entirely. Members of this group included many of the brighter minds -- or better educated ones, anyway -- that have come into the white nationalist world in recent years, and their relative prestige would be hard for Taylor to give up.

It's not clear how the situation will wind up. Taylor has now publicly rejected anti-Semitic views, but he hasn't banned anti-Semites from his conferences.

What is certain is that it will be painful for Taylor to definitively eject the anti-Semites -- Duke, Black and their neo-Nazi allies are among the most committed and serious workers in the American radical right, people who have arguably done far more for "the movement" than all the racist professors who travel to American Renaissance conferences put together. But he seems to be personally uninterested in conspiracy theories about the Jews, and in any case sees clearly that anti-Semitism will likely destroy any faint hope that American Renaissance has to gain mainstream respectability. Taylor could try to pursue a middle road - espousing, for instance, the anti-Semitic teachings of Kevin MacDonald, which avoid neo-Nazi language in favor of the academic veneer of "evolutionary biology." Or he could break with the neo-Nazis and their allies, even though Taylor is connected to many of them through dense ties of friendship and organizational alliances.

The outcome may be critical to the future of the American radical right. American Renaissance has become increasingly important over the years, bringing a measure of intellectualism and seriousness to the typically thug-dominated world of white supremacy. Today, it may be the closest thing the extreme right has to a real think tank. Whether or not it survives, and in what form, genuinely matters.

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radical right and the Jews
Posted by: yellow on Aug 16, 2006 1:49 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A split in the far right produced a "respectable" tendency that is "merely" racist though not anti-semitic welcoming Jews as fellow whites. There are naive Jews who think there can be a robust white supremecist fascism in the US which will not ultimately turn agianst them given that the traditions of racism in the US are so much greater than those of anti-semitism. What they fail to see is that the emerging split in the US fascist movement is proof of the inevitability of anti-semitism in ALL fascism. In the US it is merely delayed. Writers like Kevin McDonald, who view Jews as "biologically" driven to undermine all "host" societies as a survival strategy by strongly promoting tolerance thereby weakening societies strongest white elements, are sure to gain much credence among the respectable right like the Regnery/Human Events crowd. Rarely has there been a fascist tendency in history which sustained its respect for the Jews without soon succumbing to the temptation to see them as a rival force and strike out violently against them.

Many European ethnic groups that trace their American roots back to the long 1878-1924 immigration wave, comprise an insecure middle class in great danger of disappearance in our age of globalization. Groups whose contributions to the upbuilding of US society are now precarious and vulnerable. The forces of corporate globalization are making locally controlled economies and national capitalism obsolete and endangered. Frustrated and insecure, these groups find it easy to scapegoat the most vulnerable sectors of society.

As usual, reason doesn't undercut the emotional appeal of fascism. The fact that the ten to twelve million illegals are part of a two-tier job structure that doesn't make US citizens vulnerable to job competition or that Mexican immigrants are only 18% of all immigrants doesn't blunt the credibility of white supremecists. Fear is still the most powerful political idea yet. Ethnic identity is still quite powerful. This is a little understood holdover from the era of early industrial capitalism and the historically recent formation of nation-states as the organizational principle of capitalism. Capitalism's national phase (1790-1973) saw the upbuilding of national tariffs, the growth of industry and modern urban social classes, urbanization, the collapse of the old rural aristocracy (as in England's repeal of the Corn Laws in the 1840s), and the emergence of modern taxation for the building of infrastructure like railroads and ports, the growth of the liberal state, and the rapid growth of national economies. This stage of national capitalism build the modern middle classes, labor parties, and the social and political infrastructure that working and middle classes once relied upon.

With globalization we have a new division of labor which makes national society highly exclusive while it concentrates formerly good paying jobs in low wage regions of the world. Global capitalism becomes financialized as the small inclusive parts of all national societies merge globally as one and is known as what Walter Wriston has called the Bankable Sector. This is about 15% of the world population and is concentrated in the capital rich first world countries. We see how this works all the time as people lose pensions, healthcare benefits, and other perks for which they are expected to contribute to the private financial system. Those who cannot, like the bottom third of all workers, are cut loose to drift about. No more redistribution of income from the rich to the poor. This is what is behind the attacks on social security! Globalization is concentrating the assets and wealth of late monopoly capitalism to the exclusion of most people.

Herbert Marcuse once opined that the liberal state was pregnant with a fascist one. The midwife is capitalist crisis. This bit of Frankfurt School wisdom is still true today!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Brilliant coment!We should talk. Posted by: citizenjoe
» RE: radical right and the Jews Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: unbridled capitalism Posted by: Lauren
» RE: unbridled capitalism Posted by: yellow
» RE: radical right and the Jews Posted by: willymack
» RE: Einstein Posted by: Lincoln fan
» UNBRIDLED CAPITALISM Posted by: LMNOP
» hmmm... Posted by: medstudgeek
» RE: hmmm...sickofsleaze Posted by: ladybug1@carrollsweb.com
» RE: hmmm...sickofsleaze Posted by: WhuThe?!?
» In addition Posted by: WhuThe?!?
» Goldhagen's 'Executioners' Posted by: srqwolf
» RE: radical right and the Jews Posted by: redstarwraith
» RE: radical right and the Jews Posted by: nonwhiteperson
» RE: radical right and the Jews Posted by: albrechtkrausse
» RE: radical right and the Jews Posted by: albrechtkrausse
Bigotry is bigotry
Posted by: Samantha Vimes on Aug 16, 2006 4:14 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I hope that the fighting inside this group might get some of the members to open up their eyes and see the hate. I'd bet most of the membership is sexist and homophobic, and probably regionalist and classist. You can't expect to pal around with racists and not end up on the receiving end of their hate for one thing or another.

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» RE: Bigotry is bigotry sickofsleaze Posted by: ladybug1@carrollsweb.com
» RE: Bigotry is bigotry Posted by: owleyes
» RE: Bigotry is bigotry Posted by: specom
Ahh, The Republican Party, where would hatred be without them?
Posted by: marklar on Aug 16, 2006 4:29 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This article is revealing and resourceful and right on all fronts. Right-wing Jews never hold back their contempt and hatred of Muslims on the cable news shows and apparently have no problem joining hands with Republican cross burners in hating blacks and browns. It must be nice for them to be able to openly hate people, or to get to wear the figurative white robe with pointy hat and Nazi jackboots, and to join in singing anti-Cumbaya songs with the multitude of Republican hate groups and not fear the ovens of Nazi past.
Lest they ever forget, "never again" is motto and slogan for their played out Holocaust Industry. But apparently now it means never again to us but to hell the rest of the worlds victims of hatred and racist violence. Lebanon redux anyone?
Well let's see, in 1532 the Portuguese govonors of what is today called Brazil expelled all Jews from that nether region of the New World in historys first example of anti-Jewery in the New World. It's a part of history worth remembering because as Republican hate groups flourish in America and become our defacto conscience of one of our two political parties they will eventually have to find new groups to hate and Jews, unfortunately, are an easy target along with Gays and Liberals.
It's not a stretch to imgine a day when men like George W. Bush, and Senator "Macaca" Allen wake up to realize that the entire United States of America, like in California today, will be a place of mixed breeds where the white race is a shrinking minority. Time is a coming when non-whites will have a lot more political clout than they do today - and it can't come soon enough IMHO - and many many Jews are going to regret having alligned themselves with the most powerful Hate group of all, the Republican Party. Hatred is violence and Liberal Jews better wake up and speak out about OCCPATION and gain more control over their future.

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A view from Britian.
Posted by: cordas on Aug 16, 2006 5:04 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I was rather alarmed to read in this article about the rise of Hate politics in the UK, and just want to clarfiy a couple of things....

1) The hate groups here are currently focusing their hatred on imigrants of all colours (including white) and not on any specific group beyond the fact that they are imigrants.

2) The BNP (British National Party) has even wlecomed British Asians and Indians into their party with even a few black people joining up.

3) It is the failure of our main political parties to deal with the problems of imigration and Europe that have caused this problem as "normal" voters feel they have nowhere else to turn.

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» Right you are, mate Posted by: citizenjoe
it is
Posted by: rsaxto on Aug 16, 2006 6:00 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If anyone is biologically decended from satan in America it isn't Lieberman or any other Jew: it is Dick Cheney.

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» RE: it is sickofsleaze Posted by: ladybug1@carrollsweb.com
» RE: it is Posted by: WhuThe?!?
» RE: it is Posted by: willymack
Wouldn't it be nice.... sickofsleaze
Posted by: ladybug1@carrollsweb.com on Aug 16, 2006 6:02 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If both sides of hate would spew their venom at each other instead of their original targets?

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Perhaps the ProIsraeli Lobby will become the target of the American Left, oddly enough
Posted by: russellcole38 on Aug 16, 2006 6:08 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
These are interesting transformations taking place among the far right of American politics. I would like to introduce another topic of interest that might further complicate the new field of political relations. The American Left - not the plutocrats service as elected Democratic Officials, but the grass-roots and the academy are beginning to wake up to the realities of the conflict in the Middle East, and the true nature of the Zionist discourse, which obfuscates the protracted ethnic cleansing and state-sponsored terrorism perpetrated against the Palestinians. For this reason, I would suspect an emerging conflict between the vested interests of the ProIsraeli Lobby and forces on the Left in American politics.

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I Think It's Perfectly Horrid.....
Posted by: sirossisofliver on Aug 16, 2006 7:11 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
that a racist hate group won't allow racist Jews in their club!!! I's perfectly Mad!

By God, I'm sending my lapel pin back to them, and cancelling my membership!

Sir Ossis

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» yes, perfectly perfectly mad! Posted by: Michelle
Eric for Peace
Posted by: bjerko on Aug 16, 2006 7:29 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"I believe with all my heart that the monks who burned themselves did not aim at the death of the oppressors but only at a change in their policy. Their enemies are not man. They are intolerance, fanaticism, dictatorship, cupidity, hatred and discrimination which lie within the heart of man."

~Thich Nhat Hahn "In Search of the Enemy of Man" (addressed to (the Rev.) Martin Luther King) 1965

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Nazi Self-Defeat
Posted by: thedavid on Aug 16, 2006 7:49 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Who's heard of Judah Benjamin? European-descended Jews are white, Jewish social progress has been furthered more often by allying with other white groups (usually the more powerful ones of their time and place), and many of America's worst and most effective anti-"nonwhite" racists have been Jews (however one defines "Jew", "of Jewish descent" and/or "practicing Judaism"). By splitting the racist right in this way and by trying to deprive their broader movement of Jewish members the neo-Nazis are further marginalizing themselves and lessening racism's impact. I think it's perfect for the anti-racists: if this fissure didn't exist we'd do well to invent it.

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» No, Jews have a history of leftism Posted by: medstudgeek
Both parties are for creating a Secret Security State.
Posted by: jreinhart1 on Aug 16, 2006 7:50 AM   
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I see little difference between the Democrats and Republicans in issues of war, moving money into the military industrial complex, slaughtering the bill of rights and turning this nation into a secret security state filled with surveillance at all level. Since they vote the same on these areas, the remaining topics are no longer relevant. It's a fascist plutocracy, regardless which group is in power although Democrats would be closer to Benito Mussolini and Republicans are lock step into their leadership (Fuhrers).

The people of this country are ready for authoritarian rule. It's now just an argument of what kind of authoritarian style each prefers. The world has been America's sandbox for almost a century now but we are not playing well with others to the point of loosing all of our friends and hardening our enemies. Countries of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization and the remainder of the middle east and southeast asia just plain hate us with only exceptions being Australia, Japan and New Zealand. The US has meddled in the affairs of Central and South America for so long and so harshly to the point where the great majority of people of the region don't really care if we live or die.

Two books explain why we are hated for what we have done in the past very well. Stephen Kinzer's "Overthrow" and John Perkins' "Confessions of an Economic Hit Man". Additionally, the Carter doctrine and Zbigniew Brzezinski's "The Grand Chessboard" are almost identical to the ideology of the neo-conservatives and PNAC.

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Respectabilty?
Posted by: american on Aug 16, 2006 7:57 AM   
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Que pasa? Is this a test? How in the world is it somehow "respectable" to have Jewish academics in these, as you say, "far right" groups and not respectable, for instance, not to have them? Apparently, the "respectablity" stems from whither there are Jews in the organization or not, not whether, Jews or no, there is a certain line of reasoning in the groups philosophising per se - whoever the presiding racial/religious groups may be. I can't believe you based the "respectablity" of the "academics" of these groups not on what is said, per se, but who is saying it, however wrong it may be.

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» RE: espectabilty? Posted by: owleyes
» RE: espectabilty? Posted by: techphile
D Julian
Posted by: D. Julian Terry on Aug 16, 2006 8:14 AM   
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As one who considers himself part of the American left, I am strongly opposed to anti-semitism. I also have criticized the Israeli government's policies regarding their occupation and war in Lebanon. I am also aware that many folks view any opposition to Israeli government policies as anti-semitism. As with our own government, opposition to its policies is not the same as anti-americanism. As Mark Twain once said, "
Patriotism is supporting your country all of the time and supporting your government when it deserves it".

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» RE: D Julian Posted by: dangerouslysane
» RE: D Julian Posted by: yellow
Fascism Originates at the Top
Posted by: shangrilalad on Aug 16, 2006 8:14 AM   
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COUNTERPUNCH
Chris Floyd
It's Bigger Than the Neo-Cons

"It is the American elite-- pursuing, as always, the enhancement of its own power and privilege, heedless of the consent of the governed or the genuine interests of the American people (or the Palestinian people or the Israeli people or the Lebanese people or the Iraqi people)--that bedevils us. The emergence of the cretinous neo-conservative cult is just a symptom of a deeper moral corruption coursing through the dominant institutions and structures of American society. The body politic is rotting from the head."

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» RE: Fascism Originates at the Top Posted by: dangerouslysane
Purpose of article???
Posted by: alternetleslie on Aug 16, 2006 8:20 AM   
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What is the purpose of this article???

To stir up more hatred?
To acknowledge and approve of hate groups?
To uncover dangers?
To give haters more free advertising?
To laugh at the stupidity of hate?
To educate people about the unfairness of generalities and myths? -- if its this one, then it definitely failed.
How to talk to a bigot? failed again.
To spread old ugly untruths about Jews? Success here!
To spread old ugly untruths about Blacks? Success here!
To discuss the fear, insecurity, ignorance, feelings of inferiority and inadequacy of haters and how making them feel better about themselves in a more positive way may end the hatred. Gads, how awful it must feel to have to rely on only the color of your skin to feel good about yourself. Pathetic. Nope, this article doesn't do that either.

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Maybe...
Posted by: Ktflake on Aug 16, 2006 8:26 AM   
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we'll get lucky and both groups will go to war with each other, thereby saving us the trouble! That would be nice. Racism is racism--a racist Jew is still a racist. They all deserve each other.

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» RE: Maybe... Posted by: Artkansas
» RE: Maybe... Posted by: Ktflake
» RE: Maybe... Posted by: Kym525
» RE: Maybe... Posted by: Ktflake
gk
Posted by: grkjr on Aug 16, 2006 8:29 AM   
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I as dismayed that such an article could find its way into AlterNet, but i must admit iam not clear that what is appropriate for a progressive publication is perhaps not the concern of AlterNet.. the last paragraph giving such an organization of minority haters any legitimacy is unfortunate..

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» Hope this helps Posted by: marklar
» Buchanan not a libertarian Posted by: medstudgeek
» RE: gk Posted by: WhuThe?!?
» RE: gk Posted by: techphile
This Proves Beyond a Shadow of a Doubt
Posted by: Kym525 on Aug 16, 2006 8:44 AM   
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That racism is purely illogical and anyone who is a racist is an idiot.

Let me get this straight...it's perfectly *acceptable* to hate blacks and latinos, but for some reason hating on Jews is a no-no? So basically we've got two groups of racists who can't agree just to hate everyone who isn't white? No wonder we laugh at bigots...they're stupid! We should laugh at them even more and make them realize just how moronic they truly are. Then we should pray for them because as bad as they are, they need to be shown what true love is, and it's not to be found in racist ideology.

And a word of warning to those Jews who engage in bashing other races - your time will come, and those same people you think are your allies, will quickly revert to what they truly are in their hearts.

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» RE: "Lie down with dogs..." Posted by: dangerouslysane
I only hate racists, i like everyone else
Posted by: sugamretniw on Aug 16, 2006 9:17 AM   
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That's it, I only hate one race and that race is anyone who is a racist. It makes sense if you can hate someone based on where they're from geographically, or the color of their skin, or their religion then i'll just hate people based on their ideology.

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Many types of Jews!
Posted by: albrechtkrausse on Aug 16, 2006 9:33 AM   
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A distinction can be made between zionists and Jews. However one needs to be careful because sometimes 'zionist' is just a code word to be 'anti-jew'. More importantly there are differences between the several types of Jews. The Jews themselves make these distinctions between different types of Jews and it is frequently a big issue in all Israeli elections. So I could see the right-wing racist types using these distinctions in their debates. I also could see some Jew who could single out other Jews, of a different type, to be inferior. Of course there are many racist Jews (especially against the arabs but also against the 'goyim') so I could see some Jews getting involved with far-right hate groups. It seems weird but its possible. Remember that all races, religions, and nationalities have kooks and crazy people so it wouldn't surprise me to find racist blacks, anti-jew jews, black-apologist whites, anti-feminist women etc.

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» RE: Many types of Jews! Posted by: techphile
» RE: Many types of Jews! Posted by: albrechtkrausse
David Duke -- a Spent Force
Posted by: AdamSelene40 on Aug 16, 2006 9:45 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Chistian Identity movement faithful are like sun dried condoms. You don't like to see them, you sure don't want to explain them to your kids -- but they've done all they're going to do in this world.

They're not going to 'split' the Ford/Lindburgh Republicans off from the Nixon/Reagan gang. If anything they'll help the old-line bigots stay IN the Big Tent by offering them a sideshow freak exhibit of their own and the regular Party Clowns won't have to apologize for them in the Big Top.

I'm a lot more concerned about the "Anti-Zionist, NOT anti-Semitic" carrying on we see on 'our side.'

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» RE: David Duke -- a Spent Force Posted by: dangerouslysane
» RE: David Duke -- a Spent Force Posted by: cmaukonen
» RE: David Duke -- a Spent Force Posted by: dangerouslysane
» RE: David Duke -- a Spent Force Posted by: techphile
» RE: SHAME ON YOU! Posted by: pierrot
» RE: David Duke -- a Spent Force Posted by: techphile
» RE: homeland Posted by: dangerouslysane
» "Pretty well" Posted by: AdamSelene40
» RE: "Pretty well" Posted by: techphile
» RE: homeland Posted by: techphile
I chose sickofsleaze
Posted by: ladybug1@carrollsweb.com on Aug 16, 2006 9:51 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
as a moniker because I am just that, sick of the sleaze that permeates our society today from the highest levels of goverments and firmly on the left side of the aisle. No, I type sickofsleaze manually each time I post, as a self taught computer user I am not aware of all the tricks of the trade. any opinions I express are entirely my own and done to exercise my freedom of speech while I am still free to do so because each day it seems I read of another instance of its curtailing.

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Profound Stupidity
Posted by: Pirate1 on Aug 16, 2006 10:33 AM   
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For anyone in this day and age with what we have learned about the journey of our distant ancestors out of Africa and eventually around the world, slowly evolving as they did, different complexions and statures as was biologically determined in response to the new environments encountered to still see people with darker or lighter skin color as "other" is just stupid. These are people who when presented a garden of healthy vegetables, choose to continue eating the same worm ridden carrion of their willfully ignorant forebears regardless of all evidence of the wrongness of so doing, and all in the name of some toxic, mega-church encouraged belief system or tradition.

Duke and his ilk world wide are idiots and those who agree with them are idiots also. No better arguement need be made for scientific education.

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White supremicists are making themselves modern
Posted by: Bobsays on Aug 16, 2006 10:40 AM   
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I wouldn't get too smug about the white supremicist movement and philosophy. While many in that movement right now are bumbling fools, it won't be long before clever elements emerge. Let me explain.

As society becomes more and more diverse, a knowing alliegence with your race group will become more important. This will expand on the already well entrenched trends of whites clustering together in schools, neighbourhoods and social organisations that they feel comfortable with.

White supremicists will start to use new technologies to encourage this trend. They will become very sophisticated at pin pointing neighbourhoods with high crime, and with high non-white populations. They will then direct through marketing companies whites to other areas.

In the political realm, they will use more and more coded language like 'selection', 'excellence', 'choice', etc. to direct whites to majority white areas.

I would be alert to this, because there are many people who will not get with the programme in the ever-more diverse society. They will use every means available to work, play and live with other whites. A great example of this in motion is today's South Africa. While official racism has disappeared, whites are very sophisticated at moving around to always stay in majority white areas. It can be funny to watch, as neighbourhoods flip at a furious pace.

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» Too Late Posted by: VisionQuest
» RE: Too Late Posted by: MrWebster
Here's a secret...
Posted by: axandrade on Aug 16, 2006 10:57 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Jesus was a Jew!!!

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» RE: Here's a secret... Posted by: Fade
» RE: Here's a secret... Posted by: zoomorph
» RE: Here's a secret... Posted by: techphile
Darn all that hating getting confusing
Posted by: Fade on Aug 16, 2006 11:13 AM   
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Okay so Jew Hating Supremacists who hate blacks cant get along with the Jew Supremacists who hate blacks. Darn, all that hating must get confusing.

I have faith that they will put aside their differences, if only temporarily, in order to promote more Christian and Jewish hate of Muslims in the name of terror.

THEN, they can pick up on the whole "Are Jews really Satans children? vs. Are Goyim really here to serve the Jews?"

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NeoCon, NeoNazi, NeoZionist
Posted by: Fade on Aug 16, 2006 11:17 AM   
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You say tomato...

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The Perfect Solution to Racism
Posted by: Kym525 on Aug 16, 2006 3:17 PM   
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I think that every man and woman of color - be they black, latino, middle eastern, asian, whatever - should marry and procreate with as many white people as possible. That way, we get rid of these outdated notions of white superiority. Talk about a nice 'brown' planet...

Let's be honest here. We all know that one of the bases for racism in this country is the white man's irrational fear of the 'big black penis'. Most white men spend a ridiculous amount of time being petrified of a white woman finding a black man (or any other race of men) physically attractive (and most white women are the same way). Get past all the rhetoric about how blacks and other minorities are supposedly 'destroying' white America, and what you'll actually find is this fear of being rendered obsolete.

And racist Jews...they should be doubly ashamed of themselves.

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» No Whites Allowed Posted by: Ouelle
Sephardic Jews/Adam and Eve
Posted by: drmeow on Aug 16, 2006 3:22 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Let's see - racist American Jews hate "people of color." This includes, presumably, anyone with dark/non-white skin (does it include light skinned Asians?). There are generally considered to be two groups of Jews, European (Ashkenazic) Jews and the Mediterranean/African (Sephardim and Mizrachim) Jews (generally referred to as Sephardic Jews). Many Sephardic Jews are "people of color" - African and Arab. Does this mean racist Jews hate all non-Ashkenaizic Jews as well as the Blacks, Mexicans, Indians (the list goes on). Also, those who converted to Judiasm not withstanding, aren't all Jews descended from a single tribe of ... North Africa/Arab Jews? Does that mean racist Jews hate their own ancestors?

If the first humans were Adam and Eve and all other humans are descended from those two, aren't all races from the same source?

The irrationality of racism boggles my mind!

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» RE: Sephardic Jews/Adam and Eve Posted by: albrechtkrausse
To many black folks who will read this article it will be no suprise
Posted by: techphile on Aug 16, 2006 4:20 PM   
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That some jewish people hate us is nothing new, its' funny though to hear of right wing jewish folks breaking bread and embracing racists and at the same time asking the white supremacists to include them. I can see it now, some of them will gleefully tak part in a ;ynching or two and then ask the person the victim as well as their fellow lynchers to never forget the holocaust.

At times that I have been approached by white folks and a few jewish people too who have wanted to talk to me about black anti semitism I first tell them ethiopians and arabs are semites too, and ask if they are more interested in hatred of jewish people. Then I point out that for most of us jews are just a white ethnic group. And they might as well ask us why we hate latvians.

Most jews just like all other white people will believe that they are superior to black, brown, or yellow people so this is not suprising at all.

If most muslims were white they would also not be despised so much and as a former muslim I have lost track of the many times when people would assume that the problems in the middle east affected muslims in Kano, Mombassa, Conakry or India.

For many african & african american muslims we know that the arabs look down on us and just like the jews in the white supremacist movement have discovered hatred of the other is still alive and well.

JUst confirms for me what I always suspected that white folks will always band together when pocos (people of colour) are around,

Lastlt as long as there are black or latino people in the US there will never be enough support for things like universal health care, better k-university education, or any type of socialism.

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» yellow! stop that! ^ ^ Posted by: Michelle
» RE: yellow! stop that! ^ ^ Posted by: yellow
» RE: yellow! stop that! ^ ^ Posted by: Michelle
» PS RE: yellow! stop that! ^ ^ Posted by: Michelle
» And also Posted by: Michelle
» and, about the content? Posted by: Michelle
» RE: and, about the content? Posted by: yellow
I could not bear to finish reading this article.
Posted by: Sojourner on Aug 16, 2006 4:59 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If I read one more article about true believer freaks on what is supposed to be a progressive BBS, I shall find a better way to waste my time.

I know there's a breed of journalist that gets off by doing muck raking. But frankly, I don't give a damn about David Duke and his ilk.

My suspicion is that progressives are so vacant, when it comes to national policies, that we'd rather wallow with the pigs of the far right. It's so much fun and so easy to pin the tail on their donkeys.

But we don't need to refute their hogwash, and we certainly don't need to slober along with them. Americans can see it for the slop that it is.

We need solutions, or even proposals for solutions, to issues of jobs, disarmament, and muzzling politicians who cannot tell the difference between a threat and a treat.

We need education not exposes. Yes, the Nazis are nasty. I can testify to that from personal experience. Yes, the anti-Semites are slobs. Yes, the fascist right is a big pain in the butt. But what does that have to do with progressive policies?

Oh, you don't know? Then why are you writing for a progressive BBS? Go find yourself a tabloid somewhere.

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Make Bubba the enemy, not the Rich. And never mention progressive taxes & universal healthcare
Posted by: rebel_pig on Aug 16, 2006 5:15 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
that is JUST the Fake-Left ticket, Old Son!
Divide and Rule, same as it ever was. As long as the Fake Left propagandists can gin up hatred against white lower middle class Bubbas, the white lower middle class will always be pushed away from Leftism. And that way the Millionaires and Billionaires will never have to worry about progressive taxation and universal healthcare turning America into Europe.

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» Troll time! (NT) Posted by: brunowe
» RE: Troll time! (NT) Posted by: yellow
Gee, this wasn't biased...
Posted by: uoykcuf on Aug 16, 2006 7:01 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You sensationalize White "racism" and ignore what's really going on.
Most schools in White nations...the nations where the White population is in decline and the Non White population is on the rise...they preach that White people are the root of all of their problems.

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» RE: Gee, this wasn't biased... Posted by: techphile
» RE: Gee, this wasn't biased... Posted by: techphile
Gee, this wasn't biased...pt2
Posted by: uoykcuf on Aug 16, 2006 7:02 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They're inundated with tens of thousands of television & movie images whites hosing down poor black protesters in Alabama; British "oppression" of India; The Spanish conquest of the Americas; the residual effects of slavery; the "destruction" of the American Indian way-of-life; the Holocaust©; Public Service Announcements about how America is a beacon of light to the tired, poor & brown...and how they've all been so oppressed and picked on...from the cradle to the grave.

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Gee, this wasn't biased...pt3
Posted by: uoykcuf on Aug 16, 2006 7:03 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Here's the end result of this:

linked text

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» You are psychotic Posted by: Ktflake
» RE: You are psychotic Posted by: Ouelle
Let work as a team to leave the ancient world behind us
Posted by: rdyrchrdsn on Aug 16, 2006 7:38 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In the perfect world, there would be no Judaism and its branches, Christianity and its branches, Islam and its branches, Buddhism and its branches, Hindu, Zoroastrianism, Communism, Satanism, money worshippers, idol worshippers, oil worshippers, and God/G-d worshippers.

We should remember that merely 35,000 years ago, there were once some remnants of tool-making Neanderthals presented to exist on the planet. A large part of Earth was not mapped by these primitive creatures because they didn't know how to draw precisely, despite that they were almost as smart as civilization-making/game-making humans (Homo sapiens). Elections, which are used to maintain civilizations, were not in existence. Early humans' living standard was very simple. They merely hunted animals, gathered food, and occasionally competed for mating like other every animal of any specie around the world. They dwelled in the caves, natural shelters, and even open fields. Man-made shelters weren't as common as today.

It took one million year for the 2-legged humans' population to reach 1 billion. But suddenly it jumped up to 6 billion from 1 billion within 200 years, from 1800 to 2000. Huge empty areas and deforestation were needed for planting and grazing to keep the population fed. Current technology and religions can't support this astonishing number. To solve the problem without requiring to depopulate thru violence, competition, deception, and dishonesty; innovation, life style changing, and honesty are recommended. Sentimental competition to preserve a tribe, belief, etc should be removed.

Humans should get out of the funded violence, which is based on destroying both humans and environment, to be more actively involved in exploring space, sea, and terrain, discovering organic and inorganic matters, making games that is independent of killing (e.g. video games, 3D holographic games, sports), curing human diseases, creating energy free of oil, and others. Demilitarization is must. Jetfighters, missiles, ships, guns and other weapons aren't doing anything to protect and politically benefit a single country but damage and alternate humans and Earth. At least, only the basic force is needed to control the flow of immigration incited by the globalizing corruption.

Certainly, statues, pyramids, and temples are objective and concrete but they are derived from subjective concepts. Because ancient people took subjectiveness more seriously than modern people and the kings and religious leaders still had enough money to buy it, Greece's Hellenic civilization failed to last forever as Plato's philosophy was more popular and compatible with kings, religious leaders and tribal leaders than Aristotle's, although both men were not perfect. Money, currency, and gold were the factors why they were preventing Hellenic technology from expanding. Limitation was reached. Through the elites (kings, leaders, etc.), the ancient money and economy had symbiotical connection with mysticism, propaganda, and tradition. Had enough economical strength to keep the scientific discoveries and Aristotle's works buried for many centuries. A few good men and women lost their lives for debunking the flat-world mysticism.

By now, it is an individual's duty to prevent himself from being trapped in the propagandistic matrix. Internet is the only tool to help humans to figure out and unite the difference together through discussion, theory-making, questions, etc. Technology, scientific discoveries, new energies, and honesty are gradually replacing religions, oil, exploitation, deception, dishonesty, and money on the day-to-day basis, not year-to-year or decade-to-decade or century-to-century or even millennium-to-millennium. Human's paths concerning on selfishness and unselfishness are hardly matter, as the politics of those negative and positive factors will be blurred by technology.

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Jews who attend these conferences are playing Uncle Tom roles
Posted by: pitty on Aug 16, 2006 8:32 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Flame me if you will but this is BS. You as a Jew can attend these type of conferences and say AMEN and Hallelujah with all the racist crap but get indignant when someone suggest Jews should be viewed in the same light? LMAO!

Some nerve arseholes. You get what you deserve from these cretins. And Im suppose to have sympathy for you when you play both sides and then they the cretins want to play Hansel & Gretel with your asses?

Save it, Im not an anti-semite just stating the real. Blacks have had it tougher because of the things said in this article. A large group of people and sometimes --most times in American history these people are the majority. Blacks cant hide being black unless they are a passant blanc meaning they are so fair complected they can pass for white which has happened throughout history.

The truth is both sides are so insidious jews willing to use white supremicists for their own ends and white supremes willing to use jews for their own end.

History shows this sh^t does not work. God bless the blacks and the native americans---you are gonna need it with these guys in cahoots. I mean native americans are so unhappy they are drinking themselves to death and blacks are trying to survive. By in large jews and whites have most of the capital in this country. I guess they want it all.

Can anyone else live in peace with these guys around? Greedy slimey bastards. Not speaking about all jews...

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I think there is a secret that science is unraveling
Posted by: pitty on Aug 16, 2006 8:46 PM   
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That all people come from African Ancestry and the breaking of the continents, climate and breeding gives us our different looks. Forever and a day all the world has been taught the following by white people: caucazoid, negroid and mongaloid...remember that sh!t? And how the black man was INHERENTLY inferior to the white and the mongoloid was a slant-eyed commie monkey.

Oh those were the days. The truth is we are different hues of black and we have made a man so hated because of the color of his skin something he cannot control. I think this is the major push for Christian teachings in school to make people skeptical of scientific DNA analysis. They dont want to admit they were wrong!

My 2 cents!

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on "American Renaissance"
Posted by: Jack Shultz on Aug 16, 2006 9:30 PM   
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It was interesting how the jewish racist could maintain the logic of racism while trying to denounce the logic of anti-semitism, which is nothing more than a variation of racist logic. Unfortunatedly, they are too dense to see it.

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» RE: on "American Renaissance" Posted by: techphile
» RE: on "American Renaissance" Posted by: Jean Fischer
Let them....
Posted by: Asses of Evil on Aug 16, 2006 9:35 PM   
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eat themselves....just like the Repubs seem to be doing to some extent. Good riddance to bad rubbish, as my Grandma used to say. If there's one thing intolerant people can't stand, it's intolerant people who are intolerant of different things. Yeesh.

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Descendants of Shem
Posted by: karyse on Aug 17, 2006 4:13 AM   
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"Semitic" -- descendants of Shem. This includes arabs. So a Jew, oddly enough, CAN indeed be an anti-semite -- nevermind that it's the kind of insanity that causes death and destruction across the globe. Somehow the term "anti-semite" came to mean solely and only anti-jew. This country is fully anti-semite as well as full of hatred for jews.

Some years ago, "science" had determined that there were some twenty-six races in the world. Today, I believe the number has been paired down to six (polynesian, caucasian, asian, negroid, indian, aborigine). Tommorrow, I hope, it will be one -- human.

Geo-political boundaries, fictional lines drawn on pieces of paper that have no reality -- not even to show the demarcation of true nations -- are the greatest bullshit to ever inhabit our collective ideologies (well, except for money).

Dig deeper than the surface. Practice critical theory.

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Racism
Posted by: Vani on Aug 17, 2006 6:00 AM   
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Most contributing comments have referred to the concerns about rising anti-Semitism. Can we also look at the horrors of racism? It has been with us a long time, and it won’t be going away anytime too soon. Racism is brutal, cruel, pervasive and unrelenting. Yet until yesterday (today, tomorrow), a black person who complained about racist abuse was denounced as "playing the race card. You're not paranoid if your enemy really does have it in for you.

As for those who think that Europe is better. I live in Europe and I can attest to the fact that racism is just a bad here as in America. The only difference is that interracial marriage between white women and men of color (Black, Brown, Asian, Arab) occurs far more frequently here. In America, Black men can be killed for associating with white women intimately. Here in Europe, interracial marriage is pretty common. But there are just as many hate crimes in Europe. In Europe, Arabs and Blacks are segregated in non-viable living communities just as they are in America. In Europe, whites will NEVER hire blacks or Arabs, unless it is as garbage cleaner or a maintenance man. Of course, there are some exceptions but one black employee for every thousand black person is not fair employment practice, OK? The harshness of white European racism is shocking. In America, employment discrimination does occur. But a Black person has a better chance of finding a job in America than in Europe. A major negative factor in America is the lack of hope, dreaming and expectations of American Blacks America. This occurs where racial discrimination has existed so long, that Blacks have given up trying to insert themselves into the American economy and society. Increasingly in America, Arabs are also being excluded from the American job market. Asians are able to find employment both in American and Europe, although there is some concern about fairness and respectful treatment in Europe. Europeans do not have the same concept of Latinos that Americans do. They are more sophisticated abut racial issues concerning LA since they realize that some Latinos are white, some are of indigenous descent and that some are mulatto or Black.

Minorities are almost invisible in Europe. I am referring to Blacks, Asians and Arabs although we all know that these terms are inadequate to describe what is really going on here. People of color are not depicted on television in Europe. People openly ridicule them in a way that only the most hideously racist American would ever accept. It’s not uncommon to see a white man painted yellow with prosthetic teeth pretending that he is a Chinese or to see pictures of deformed looking Black people with huge red or pink lips in books for children. Blacks are barely able to survive in Europe. They face limited access to employment, so revenue is crippled. Additionally, it is nearly impossible for a Black or an Arab person to rent an apartment alone. He must rent with or via a white person. Blacks face a process of Africanization – even if he is the descendants of slaves who have lived in a European nation for many generations, he is treated as though he is a foreigner just arrived from Africa or some third world nation. There is also an Islamization of all Arabs. That is to say that all Arabs are considered Islamic, even though many are not. They are all considered to have just arrived in Europe although that is also not true. The list of stereotype and misunderstanding is extremely long when you consider the length of time that Arab people have been in Europe.
contnued in next post

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European Racism
Posted by: Vani on Aug 17, 2006 6:28 AM   
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Continued
Sorry to go on so long...don't read on if you disagree with the length. People need to know that racism is nearing universality. It is not just an American phenomenon.

In Europe, racism impacts Black women harshly. European society is highly stratified, with Black women landing at the very bottom. Whereas Black and Arab men may succeed in inserting themselves into European society, Black and Arab women are completely ostracized by white Europe. Black women encounter total hostility and mistrust from whites, particularly the women. They are subject to frequent stops and searches by the police if alone. Consequently, they do not travel alone very often. They live secluded lives, cut off from European society.

A number of myths and stereotypes circulate about Black women, which would be considered ridiculous by American standards. They are depicted as voodoo madams, witch doctors, mammies... Their public image is also highly sexualized. They are often accosted for sexual purposes and offered demeaning sex-related careers.

Employment ghettos for people of color include child care, domestic work, and sexual work for women and building maintenance, street cleaners for Black and Arab men. It is assumed that they can not speak the language, are ignorant are poor, etc. There is NO European-African counterpart to the African-American. Europeans are quite racist and can not accept that a non-white has participated in the development of their nations. This is despite knowing that such notable figures as Alexandre Dumas and Beethoven were of African descent. And racism is seriously on the rise, as many of you know who read about the Black men who were recently killed in the streets of Russia and the virulent radio programs broadcast in Poland.

It looks like all of the occident is imploding with racial hate. What’s a person of color to do?

White racism is baaaack and it’s here to stay. Many whites claim to not be racist but do nothing about the the rise of White Hate & unfair way in which goods, services, power, privilege and rights are distributed. Marx hoped that race would become irrelevant, but that has not been the case; Under our skin – we are all brothers and sisters. Yet Whites witness the exclusion of their black brethren and refuse to do anything to help. They prefer to profit from the privileges incurred as white citizens in a white supremacist society.

Many Whites are afraid for their jobs and the future of their world. Yet the occidental nations are rapidly destroying the world by depleting all natural resources, polluting and destroying what is left of the earth’s health and wellbeing. A quick analysis of world politics indicates that the occident is destroying the earth and crushing the majority of the earth’s inhabitants. 2.8 Bil people live on $2/day. Africa is wasting away under the crippling debts that the west has imposed on it. Latin America is on chaos with the very wealthy watching as children die in the streets, stolen organs are sold to the highest bidders and the poor dies from hunger and poverty. Asia is dominated by China’s powerfully emergent presence. But, if the West had had its way, China would be suffering from the same misery as Africa is today. The West has fabricated war after war with the sole goal of filling the pockets of its ultra wealthy. Every dream for democracy has been quashed by ruthless imperialism and fascism. Racist whites do not want to share anything with people of color, not even a crumb. They are proving that they are willing to kill in order to keep power out of the hands of the majority of the humans who walk the earth. If you believe that the answer to this question is to unite together for minority health & happiness & in order to protect and defend yourself against white hate - please email me at inava@free.fr.

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» Sad Posted by: benzene
» RE: Sad Posted by: techphile
» RE: Ethnocentrism vs. Racism Posted by: benzene
Judaism does not support racism
Posted by: alecoriat on Aug 17, 2006 8:07 AM   
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I'm jewish, but i think that the article was too partial. instead of opposing the organization as whole, a racist organization which has been working for years, it only talked about antisemitism in it, not just about their hatred to latins, african-american, homosexuals, and other minorities. the jews who are in that organization should be ashamed of themselves, because by identifying with the white supremacist group, even if they declare that thay are not antisemitic, they're identifying with the same murderers that killed 6 million of my people, included close family of mine, 60 years ago. Jews will never be white, and we all should try to set an example of tolerance, instead of entering this racist organizations

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» hmmm Posted by: Michelle
What about looking at the racist left?
Posted by: sharonJ on Aug 17, 2006 9:21 AM   
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Now that you've finished examining the racist right, what about taking a look at the racist left?--as evinced by the disgusting posts by large numbers of morons who believe the world is run by Jews.

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What a long strange trip this has been
Posted by: jwg on Aug 17, 2006 10:06 AM   
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out of Africa, people banding together to seek power over others that all live on this Blue Marble. Luddites all, ignoring the evidence of DNA, brother man against brother man.

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RE: The jewish issue
Posted by: yellow on Aug 17, 2006 6:35 PM   
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I often go to fascist websites to check them out. They lie. They're main appeal is toward white trash that delude themselves into thinking they're educated. These people are pathetic!

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» RE: The jewish issue Posted by: Ouelle
Split in Racist Right
Posted by: kbiteye on Aug 18, 2006 8:33 AM   
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Some excellent background information on the thinking of the religious/political right is a little book I found entitled "The Negro A Beast" by Charles Carroll (1900). The book contains the "formula" for racist thinking, ideas, beliefs and behaviors or the perhaps the “formula” for fascism and fascist thinking.

What is really interesting about the book is that it the writer responds to those of that day who were critical of his writings and the beliefs espoused therein. The book is absolutely revolting -- hard to read -- and extremely racist -- which makes it a perfect read (smile). (by the way, for all you who think the religious right is not as bad as it seems: atheism to Mr. Carroll meant any one who believed that Blacks (Native Americans too) had a "soul")


Now its relevancy? Those who disagreed with him, did so as a matter of a weird kind of principle -- it's not that blacks or Negroes are not human, it's just that they are of a lower species.

His detractors response was, It's not that blacks don't have a soul, it's just that their soul was (you fill in the blank) and therefore the Negro was not as intelligent, had not created a single civilization, etc. you know the story. (I’ll go one further, the Negro never existed, it was a projection from a sick mind, forced upon the real lives of Black people, oppressed, marginalized and dehumanized by those who shared and/or benefited from the social order constructed by that sick mind. National Insanity – plain and simple.)

Which brings me to another point -- the book mentions "intelligent design" all those years ago (first published in the 1800's). Also evolution vs. creationism -- evolution might show blacks, whites, native Americans, all of us are of one family human.

While creationism (read the book The Negro A Beast) clearly allows you to determine who God created first, second, third, etc. on those numbered days and therefore who God created to be master and who God created to be slaves. By the way the title of the book reads

The Negro A Beast, Created With Articulate Speech and Hands So That He May Serve His Master The White Man

This is the formula - the initial thought -- all the other bunk and death came after -- sort of like 9-11 and Saddam -- so let's attack Iraq --- later --- yeah its a lie -- but heck it serves our purpose -- create a new "middle east", blah, blah, blah, oil, oil, oil, blah, blah, blah. OR like blacks and lynching/slavery/holocaust , or Jews/holocaust, or Native American/HOLOCAUST, only history knows who or what other HOLOCAUST have occurred or will occur in the future.

wow! This is America folks and until we confront this -- there will be no peace on earth, no goodwill toward men/women/children.

So I guess I'm saying, history is always important. We can't understand the religious/political right as some separate phenomenon among others in America. It is the back bone of America.

The civil rights, anti-lynching, abolitionist, anti-American war on Vietnam, workers rights, women's/feminist, new age (or spiritual questioning) MOVEMENTS among others were an aberration (???) and until we secure real freedom and democracy in this Country, they will remain aberrations or movements and not the norm. It is normal to be anti-racist, not ant-Semitic, anti-war, anti-capitalism/greed, anti-imperialist, not homophobic, not misogynist, I mean we could go on, but you get, NOT FASCIST: which would include anti-racist, etc.

Now my point is that fascism is a part of the American culture, American Business practice, American Capitalism it’s just plain American --for those of us who have victimized by it and that includes all Americans. Just observe the religious/political right, left and center.

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» RE: Split in Racist Right Posted by: techphile
» RE: Split in Racist Right Posted by: kbiteye
Frankness Part 1
Posted by: mamusa on Aug 18, 2006 10:05 AM   
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Let us be frank with ourselves and each other. The root of bigotry is fear, insecurity and ignorance. Let us not confuse racism and bigotry. Racism is institutional and requires the power and capability to impose one's views and opinions on another. Thus, in the middle east; even though a Palestinian may hate and loathe an Isaeli, he (the Palestinian) does not have the machinations to bulldoze Israeli settlements or drop bombs on Israeli homes. In a similar manner, in the US, even though a black person may loathe a white man, he does not have the capability to 'racially profile' a white driver as does a white police department.
Given that understanding, one must seek the source of this insecurity -- and it lies in self doubt and the concept of scarcity. It is this same concept that drives white people (or for that matter affluent peoples of all races -- black, white, asian, etc) to strive to deprive others (the poor and less fortunate) from gaining access to opportunities for advancement. The reality is that most white men are ill-equipped to compete on a fair basis and standing with their asian, latino or black counterparts. In the corporate world (of which I have been a senior member for some time), a black man (I can only speak for black men, as I am a black man) has to be 10 times as good as a white man to hold the same position. In corporate america, a white man can do a half ass job and still succeed and thrive, whereas a black man can do a job twice as good and get cut down. Additionally, in corporate america, when white men see a black man who is dedicated, hard working and committed, they do everything possible to discredit such a man and try to bring him down. I speak from personal experience. What is very interesting is that white women will willfully acknowledge the accomplishments of other races, but white men are very reluctant to do so.
The broo-hah over affirmative action is essentially focused on this matter. The emergence of the KKK was rooted in the success of the freed slaves -- these former 3/5ths humans, once freed, went buck-wild -- starting businesses, and prospering.. this shocked the sh** out of the white men (How could a barbarian savage be so succesful?) -- and out of this shock arose a deep fear, which led to the formation of the KKK -- not so much as a hate group, but as a fear-mongering group. Affirmative action permitted black people to attend the Harvards, Yales, Princetons, etc -- where these black people succeeded wildly, outperforming their white counterparts. Furthermore, it must be stressed that the greatest beneficiaries of affirmative action were and continue to be white women-- who have essentially (through their success) reduced the relevancy of white men. It is from this vantage point that it becomes evident the essence of white (male) racism -- essentially, the preservation of priviledge. Were it not for such priviledge, how else would George Bush have been president? The only reason he got into Yale was because his father was an alum; the only reason he owned (and failed) at a baseball team, and later an oil company, was because of his father's connections. The only reason he got the presidency was because of his father's buddies.
Does this mean that all white men are incompetent? Most absolutely not. Does it mean that all white people are racist? Again, to that I say NO!! Are all Jewish (Israelis) Arab haters? Once again, the answer is NO!

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» RE: Frankness Part 1 Posted by: kbiteye
Frankness Part 2
Posted by: mamusa on Aug 18, 2006 10:08 AM   
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You can then turn to the issue of black people. I was born dirt poor, as were my 4 sisters. All of my sisters have graduate degrees and are succesful in their own right. Both my parents have PH.Ds; I have the HIGHEST possible IQ (as determined by standardized tests)..so right there, I and my family debunk each and every myth propgated by the racist whites. Yet, I was also a star athlete in high school and college, and continue to be a start amateur athlete. Why can I rise from abject poverty and many other blacks can not? Why can Kwesi Mfume rise from a thug background, to become a US Congressman (and potential senator), and other blacks can not? Why can Barak Obama rise from Immigrant parents (his father) to become the sole black US senator and other blacks can not? The answer is perception. Even though I grew up as a 'young thug', running with some of the most violent elements of society, I always knew I could be something greater -- I always knew I could be the president of the US if I so chose, I could be a billionaire if I so chose. Malcolm X -- once a thug, died a revered statesman. What makes the difference?

The answer is perception ... poverty is a nightmare -- for many who never faced it, they can not understand. A white man can never fully understand what it is to be black... just like I (a man) could never understand what it is to be a woman. Thus, crafting 'white solutions' to 'black ailments' will not solve the issue. Most of accepted academic research (whether medical, psychological, sociological, etc) is premised on white subjects. Hence, a lot of it may not be applicable to black conditions. Trying to mow a lawn with a pair of scissors only leads to frustration.

Thus there are a lot of well meaning white people who try and resolve the 'black condition', but forget to humble themselves and 'learn' of the black condition prior to deploying solutions. Out of this arrogance (or ignorance), their proposed solutions fail, and they come back and say 'we tried to help them, but they can not be helped'; they then get upset and turn their back on the 'black condition'. If you want to truly help someone, you have to do it for selfless reasons..not to make yourself feel good, but to truly make a change. To do that, you must take 'me' out of the equation, and focus fully on the intended recepient of your help.

Lastly, let me address capitalism. I am a 100% avowed capitalist. The problem with socialism is that it breeds a sense of entitlement, a sense of laziness (which i feel has been one of the detractions of the black community and pulled us back). Compare the success and condition of black people prior to 'integration' and post integration. Prior, we had our own businesses, doctors, lawyers, schools, etc ...now, we look to and expect the 'white man' to save us. The same with socialism.... True, the government must provide a support structure (such as seed money for entrepreneural ventures, commercial and other infrastructure, etc). I also agree that everyone hits a rough spot, and the government could and should be there to provide a helping hand every now and then. The biggest role of government should be as equalizer -- essentially, ensuring that every child, no matter their race, ethnicity, wealth status, handicap, sex, etc -- is provided an equal foundation upon which to build. If this was the focus of government (and not providing corporate welfare, or sponsorship of its 'foreign' allies), then capitalism would flourish and this country would succeed. What true capitalism is, is survival of the fittest, true unbridled competition. That is not the capitalism practiced in this country -- for if it were, Cheney would not have rigged the power markets for the utilities; bush would not have rigged the oil markets for the energy companies, and so forth. Were there true capitalism, then microsoft would have never succeeded (for apple, ibm, etc had much better products).

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» RE: Frankness Part 2 Posted by: kbiteye
Frankness Part 3
Posted by: mamusa on Aug 18, 2006 10:08 AM   
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In true capitalism, the best product (based on real features and benefits) wins the day. But then again, in true capitalism, the white man loses his priviledged status and has to compete with brown, black, yellow, etc.



IN closing, let me state one thing. Arabs despise and hate black people -- just speak to any black man who has lived in the middle east; speak to the black Sudanese in Darfur. Asians also hate and despise black people -- look at some of the Japanese cartoons and how they depict black people. Jews hate and despise black people. And recently, a rift has began to develop between Latino and Blacks -- which to me makes no sense. Black people in essence, are the most despised people on the planet. This is not so much our doing, but the way we are depicted in the media and in 'white' historical accounts. Few people realize or acknowledge that Egypt was a black civilization -- which was actually a colony of Ethiopia (which at the time was known as the Meriotic Sudan). The Egyptians (pharoahs and all) were black people who looked like modern day Ethiopians. The Greeks came to gain their advanced knowledge from the temples of Egypt (the founders of white philosophy were actually schooled by black people). The initial inhabitants of Northern Africa and the middle east were black people. Within Africa (at the time when White people on the European continent were living as Barbarians), you has great kingdoms and civilizations in Western Africa (Mali, Songhey); Southern Africa (Zimbabwe, South Africa) and throughout Africa. These civilizations were engaged in trade with the Chinese, the Indians, and even the Natives of South America (artificats that attest to this have been found at archeological digs). Yet this profound 'black history' is hidden from view. The greatness and accomplishments of black people form the distant and near past (witness Charles Drew -- without whom blodd transfusions would be impossible; or the traffic light invented by a black man; Washington DC designed by a black man; the refrigeration car designed by a black man; the first open heart surgery performed by a black man, and so forth) have been shrouded in darkness and replaced by ignorance -- by depictions of black as helpless slaves freed by 'god-fearing white men' (they don't tell of the multiltudes of slave revolts, or the many slave masters who were slaughtered by their rebelling slaves). Televsions portrays black people as imbeciles, and we (black people) add to this stupidity with our misguided actions.



True knowledge will liberate us all, release of fear will open forth doors of unimaginable opportunities. But don't sit there and wait for some government or scholar or someone else to make that change -- it all starts with one person -- yourself!!

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» RE: Frankness Part 3 Posted by: kbiteye
» RE: Frankness Part 3 Posted by: spittybanned
Been saying this for years about Conservative Jews
Posted by: neosoul on Aug 18, 2006 6:58 PM   
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I have said this for many years when Jewish Americans reject the language of right- wing Jews like these men and women have said about Afro- Americans in the last 25 years, Then I will condemn the NOI, and any black person who has said words of ill will towards Jewish folks. quess what I got called for my trouble.

Anti semite
Black Racist ( can someone explain what's a black racist )
Almost got suspended from my school (art school in the late 80's)


for merely saying that intellectual Jews and 'entertainers" like Howard Stern, Don Imus, and Jackie Mason were bigots and Disney pays them millions to spew anti- black rheotric but heaven forbid a Black Person returns intellectual fire like.

The Jews in Israel is just as bad as the Nazi Party when it comes to ethnically cleansing the Palestinians - Newsoul 2004

Right -Wing Jewish Intellectual and Moderate Jewish intelectualls have said some of the most vile racist things about Afro- Americans but they are usually the first, when someone Black criticizes them and try to get every black leader and entertainer to condemn their statements of threaten to ruin their organizations. Usually lead by the same Jewish Americans who make Anti- Black statements.

JUST BECAUSE YOUR JEW ASSES MARCHED WITH BLACK FOLKS 40 YEARS AGO (WHEN IT SUITED YOUR AGENDA) DOES NOT GIVE YOU A BLACK PASS !!!!

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» the "you're angry" card Posted by: Michelle
» RE: the "you're angry" card Posted by: yellow
Walmart Racism Update!
Posted by: albrechtkrausse on Aug 18, 2006 9:21 PM   
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from a recent news post:
Andrew Young, the American civil rights leader who was hired by Wal- Mart Stores to improve its public image, has resigned from that post after telling an African-American newspaper that Jewish, Arab and Korean shop owners had "ripped off" urban communities for years, "selling us stale bread, and bad meat and wilted vegetables."

In the interview, published Thursday in The Los Angeles Sentinel, a weekly, Young said Wal-Mart should displace mom-and-pop stores in urban neighborhoods.

"You see those are the people who have been overcharging us," he said of the owners of the small stores, "and they sold out and moved to Florida. I think they've ripped off our communities enough. First it was Jews, then it was Koreans and now it's Arabs."

Young, 74, a former mayor of Atlanta and a former U.S. representative at the United Nations, apologized for the comments and retracted them in an interview late Thursday. Less than an hour later, he resigned as chairman of Working Families for Wal-Mart, a group created and financed by the company to trumpet its accomplishments.

"It's against everything I ever thought in my life," Young said. "It never should have been said. I was speaking in the context of Atlanta, and that does not work in New York or Los Angeles

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You can't repeal the laws of nature
Posted by: ISlamIslam on Aug 19, 2006 8:02 PM   
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I can't believe the stupidity and wishful thinking of posters to this website. They remind me of little children covering their ears with their hands while screaming, "I can't hear you!"

Things are what they are. None of us invented the world, and we'd be better off trying to understand it without a lot of wishful thinking of how it "should be." As has been said...we may not be interested in the truth, but the truth is greatly interested in us. Why is it so utterly "horrible" that people of one ethnicity or race might prefer their own kind to another? Why is any talk of white people wanting to preserve the white race so disparaged by the Left? Nevertheless, we tradtionalist conservatives on the Right do not judge people by their color, their ethnicity, their appearance, or even their intelligence...we judge them by whether they are good citizens or not. And while the definition of a "good citizen" is somewhat subjective around the edges, most rational people, in America at least, would agree on the fundamentals. Thus, we traditionalist conservatives do not hate blacks or Hispanics because they are black or Hispanic but do hate what we perceive as dysfunctional behaviors and bad citizenry exhibited by a disproportionate number of blacks and Hispanics. And we don't want to see Muslims enter the West in numbers any greater than those practicing witchcraft because we view the world without rose-colored liberal glasses and recognize the incompatibility of the tenets of Islam with liberal Western democracy.

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It's those Damn Jews again!
Posted by: thumber77 on Aug 20, 2006 10:55 PM   
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I am a Jewish American Male and have been proudly progressive, a man of the left all my life, BUT when I read the comments on Alter Net, I really don't like the company I've been keeping. So many times, the jew-haters crawl out of the woodwork and blame whatever problem we're discussion on Me. One of the posters to this thread says how she's proudly cheering on Hezbolah and several posters to the Mel Gibson article cheered on fascist Mel because he was telling 'the truth about Jews.' Can you really think you're a person of the left and support Hezbollah's enslavement of women and Mel Gibson's vision that there is no room in America for non-believers.
Over half of the resolutions passed in the history of the UN Security Council attack Israel - does any rational person believe Israel is responsible for more than half of what's wrong in the world? If Israel does the right thing and shuts down the West Bank settlements, how will that solve the problems of the Tibetans overrun by China, the victims of wars in Congo, Rwanda, Sierra Leone etc., the Coptic Christians whose churches are being burned in Egypt, the Arab youth discriminated against in France, and the long list goes on.
I was proud that the majority of Jewish members of Congress voted against Bush's war in Iraq - the war that Bush supposedly undertook because of his debt to his Jewish puppetmasters, but how does that fit into the fairy tale world view of the 'progressive' Jew haters?
Back in the 70s, there was a 24 hour nazi hotline in Virginia. One day, my friends and I called and told the 'vigilant guard' that we had heard their recorded message about the International Jewish Conspiracy and had one question. He thought he had a believer and told me to go ahead, and I told him I was Jewish and I'd never been contacted by the Conspiracy, and maybe he could tell me how to get in touch. The nazi didn't get the joke then, and I think way too many of the people who post on AlterNet wouldn't get it now.

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