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The Trouble With Chick Lit

By Helaine Olen, AlterNet. Posted August 11, 2006.


All those pink books with purses and shoes on the cover are obscuring the publication of serious literature by women. At least, that's what the author of a new anti-chick lit anthology says.
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It's hard to believe it has been a decade since we first met scrappy singleton Bridget Jones. Her semicomic everywoman trials and travails launched the modern publishing phenom of "chick-lit," in which twenty- and thirty-something women with lovable flaws hunt successfully for both the perfect man and the ultimate pair of designer heels.

Yet of all the things that might mark the 10th anniversary of "Bridget Jones's Diary," an anthology titled "This is Not Chick Lit: Original Stories by America's Best Women Writers," edited by Elizabeth Merrick, might be the most unexpected gift of all.

"When 'Bridget Jones's Diary' came out in 1996, as a young woman writer, I was just elated," recalls Merrick, a New York author and writing instructor. "Then it just got harder and harder to find literary works by women."

The fictional empowerment of chick-lit heroines, it seems, comes with a real-life cost: less attention paid to serious women scribes. Merrick points out that as the Jonathans -- that's Jonathan Franzen, Jonathan Lethem, and Jonathan Safran Foer -- saw their careers take off for the literary stratosphere, many of their female contemporaries found their own work languishing, receiving less press and sales than their male counterparts.

All, that is, except for chick-lit writers. By 2004, Publishers Weekly was estimating more than 200 chick-lit tales were being published annually, even as women remained dismally unrepresented in literary magazines and op-ed pages.

Merrick, 33, is not the first to wonder about the effect of chick lit on women's writing. Over the past few years, novelists Francine Prose, Beryl Bainbridge and Doris Lessing have all attempted to take on the lack of respect they feel is accorded to serious writing by women. But Merrick and her inflammatory title touched a nerve in the collective conscious the others had not.

When Random House last year announced the forthcoming publication of "This Is Not Chick Lit," with contributions from such A-list writers as Jennifer Egan and Aimee Bender, the roar of outrage from the literary blogosphere was immediate. "We've got the country's (self-proclaimed) best women writers turning up their noses at their fellow women authors' more commercial efforts," wrote one of the most famous chick-lit authors of them all, Jennifer Weiner, whose works include the novels "Good in Bed" and "In Her Shoes."

This was, in some ways, a followup to a post Weiner had made on the popular lit blog Beatrice.com earlier in the year when she wrote, "The best chick-lit books deal with race and class, gender wars and workplace dynamics, not just shoes and shopping." As for more literary works, she noted their depressing insistence on exploring "death (often sudden), regret and disappointment (always permanent)."

Soon plans were announced for a competing anthology, "This Is Chick Lit," edited by Lauren Baratz-Logsted. "Where do these women get off naming themselves 'America's Best Women Writers?," she wrote on Beatrice.com. "The reason chick lit sells in such great abundance is that it provides readers with a reliable form of entertainment. Is there something wrong with this?"

Many say no, seeing positive qualities in the genre. "Women have professional opportunities they didn't have in earlier generations, but now women have to find a lasting personal relationship while running a corporation. The old demands on women have not disappeared," notes Suzanne Ferriss, an English professor and co-editor of the nonfiction anthology "Chick Lit: The New Woman's Fiction." "A lot of people say chick lit is escapist froth. We think they are wrong. It is trying to engage with real women's lives."

It is indeed true that many women -- myself included -- can viscerally identify with the problems chick-lit heroines face. I will never again sign up to deliver snacks to my son's school without thinking ruefully of Allison Pearson's "I Don't Know How She Does It," in which would-be mistress of the universe Kate Reddy finds herself smashing in store-bought mince pies in the middle of the night to make them look homemade. Nonetheless, the cry that chick lit deals with real women's concerns in a relatable way while literary fiction spins off into greater degrees of irrelevance is somewhat disingenuous.

First, it is not as though literary fiction doesn't -- at least some of the time -- trawl the same terrain as chick lit, though Weiner is not wrong when she says the stories tend to not end as happily. But perhaps more important, the formula of chick lit itself -- with its comedic farce and fantasy solutions to real-life problems -- ultimately undercuts its claim to social relevance. Super-consumer Becky of Sophie Kinsella's "Shopaholic" series never files for bankruptcy protection. Kate Reddy quits her job and moves to the country with her family only to find -- lo and behold -- a small toy factory in need of saving. Deus ex machina and coincidence reign in the world of modern gal fiction.


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Helaine Olen has written for the New York Times, the Washington Post, Salon and other publications. She is an associate editor at LiteraryMama.com.

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As a librarian...
Posted by: Aussie Kim on Aug 11, 2006 12:47 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...I have to say that crap literature has probably been around since paper and ink were invented.

If Chick-lit is so bad, then we should also jettison 99% of all women's magazines (because they tell lies and help to wreck the lives of the gulllible) and then after that, where would we stop? Most media lies. Most advertising is dodgy in some way. etc.

On a dodgy-ness scale, I don't think chick-lit is something to get too worried about - there are bigger problems in the world and at least people are reading SOMETHING!

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» RE: As a librarian... Posted by: lianne
» If librarians... Posted by: anniedine
It kind of bugs me
Posted by: kit79 on Aug 11, 2006 1:59 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
that we have to have our own section of literature. It's like the "Black cinema" at the video store. I just don't like feeling seperate.

I've never read "chick lit". My dad actually reads more of it than i do. He loves romance novels too, and he also loves war movies. I've only read one romance novel in my life and that was because it had a medeival woman tying up a man and raping him to get preggers, which I found to be an interesting premise and bondage is always fun reading material.

Chick lit's ok, I guess, as long as every single women author isn't expected to keep to that genre. Seperatism not being my thing. I like the history and fantasy genres bestest. Actually, I tend to prefer male authors, because there tends to be less focus on romance and emotion, two things which can make me uncomfortable.

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» RE: It kind of bugs me Posted by: vicki2001lynn
» RE: It kind of bugs me Posted by: medstudgeek
» RE: It kind of bugs me Posted by: kit79
the overclass loves to bring gender issues into politics
Posted by: rebel_pig on Aug 11, 2006 2:59 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
they try to put the women on the fake-left and that pushes men away to the Right.

Divide and rule. Makes it easier for the ruling class to control us. I see that Alternet as usual is doing its part to politicize gender issues. The ruling class gives money to foundations that support alternet.

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» No, actually, jackass... Posted by: JoshuaLudd
no longer a chick and have written literature
Posted by: wawa on Aug 11, 2006 6:15 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Before 9/11, I did not give too much thought for another beyond my rural community. I was apolitical, thought the world had already gone mad and there was nothing much anyone could do or say to change it. I lived a simple contended life in the rural South and have always been grateful to be an American.


But after 9/11 I got really restless and began asking a lot of politically incorrect questions. I wanted to understand why a small group of people hated Americans so much, that they would do something as evil as targeting and cold bloodedly murdering innocent people.

I also did NOT react with fear from the events of 9/11.
I saw the opportunity it presented the USA to lead the International community in the fight against militants in the spirit of sister and brotherhood,
for 5 years ago the majority of the world wept with US.

The events of 9/11 led me to travel to Israel Palestine three times and to join the interfaith Olive Trees Foundation for Peace.

Two days ago my historical fiction, memoir and spiritual journey:
"Keep Hope Alive" was published.

"Keep Hope Alive" entwines the memoirs of Khaled Diab, a 1948 Palestinian Muslim refugee from the Upper Galilee, who made his way to the USA and realized the American dream.

After a career in the Defense Industry during the Cold War with Top Secret Clearance and at the age of 78, the events of 9/11 impell him and a few thoughtful American Jews, Christians and Muslims to found the Olive Trees Foundation for Peace, dedicated to replanting the trees the separation wall has destroyed in Israel and Palestine.


"Keep Hope Alive" begins with a group of friends around Khaled's olive wood kitchen table in Buffalo, New York the morning after Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. was assassinated.

Some of the topics of conversation include the origins of the Israeli Palestinian conflict, the treasures of the Nag Hamadi library and the stages of the soul.

"Keep Hope Alive" explores these topics in detail and also recounts my first of three journey's into Israel and Palestine.

That first journey, my thoughts and experiences are told through the fictional characters of Riad, Jack Hunt, Dr. Jake and Terese Hunter. These four characters also represent four ways to intuit God: mystery/mystical, the physical, through nature and through creativity.

100% of my royalties for "Keep Hope Alive" will go to the non-profit 501 3-C Olive Trees Foundation for Peace which is now connected to the YWCA in Bethlehem and the YMCA in Jerusalem's KEEP HOPE ALIVE OLIVE TREE CAMPAIGN. http://www.ej-ymca.org/site/

We are providing trees and irrigation suppplies to Gaza this Hannuka, Christmas, Eid season.

To receive a FREE signed pre-release copy of "Keep Hope Alive" for a 100% tax deductible donation, see ordering details Aug. 3, 2006 WAWA blog


"Be the change you want to see in the world."-Gandhi

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Here's a sorry truth :
Posted by: AdamSelene40 on Aug 11, 2006 6:41 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There's a reason the author of the Harry Potter books is "J.K. Rowling" It's the same reason the author of Frankenstein is "M. Shelly." An unknown author with a manuscript has a better chance of selling it, and a better chance of the publisher promoting it, if she takes her gender out of the picture.

"Male" is the default setting. "Woman" is the deviation.

Of course, when the manuscript has gender ... The Color Purple comes to mind ... the problem is right out there: women and men reach out to buy MEN's stories ... but WOMEN's stories present a matrix of complex "who I am and what I read" issues into the purchasing decision.

In a highly competative setting ... and 'serious literature is SO highly competative' ... the difference between a Champion and a Loser is very very small in absolute terms. A publisher's "Reader" doesn't have to be a self-hating bitch or a male chavanist pig to decide that this identifiably gyno-centric manuscript is not worth passing on to an Editor ... he/she simply has to like it a little LESS than the next-best manuscript in the pile.

"Chick Lit" is the successor to 'Bodice Ripper Romance'. It's disposable genre literature like Science Fiction or Suspense Novels. The problem, I think, is that too many reviewers treat slightly-better-than mediocre work in this genre as MORE than the work deserves ... so 'women's themes,' female authors, and 'woman's point of view' show up in the NY Time Book Review represented by better than average hacks selling almost-interesting books.

That DOES stack the deck against the Mary Shelly's and the Jane Austons of the 21st Century ...

If James Joyce were a woman, and if his Dubliners were female characters ... would anyone have read his Ulysses ?

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» RE: Here's a sorry truth : Posted by: juergen
» RE: Here's a sorry truth : Posted by: Phenix
» RE: Here's a sorry truth : Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: Here's a sorry truth : Posted by: FauxPorteno
» Always found it curious... Posted by: ABetterFuture
» RE: Always found it curious... Posted by: hhartman
» oops. Posted by: ABetterFuture
» RE: oops. Posted by: hhartman
Okay, educate me ....
Posted by: LPB on Aug 11, 2006 7:03 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I can see from some of the comments that 'serious' literature can be informative and help the reader to explore issues and maybe reach a deeper understanding, but what other reasons do proponents of literary works as opposed to commercial fiction have for their contempt for commercial fiction? I am an avid reader. Books are my favorite form of entertainment. I particularly love romance novels -- historical, modern, and paranormal romance, with a suspensful romance thrown in sometimes here and there. I occasionally read other types of commercial fiction, usually science thrillers like Jurassic Park. The romance novels I read are fun and entertaining. I always feel good at the end of the story, sort of an emotional high. The 'deeper' literature I have read in the past often left me feeling depressed and sad, sometimes for days after I finished the book. For years I have asked myself why these types of books were so much more highly valued by the literary community than books that make people feel happy? Why does a descriptive passage have to be three pages long? Why do most of the main characters have to be so dry and dreary? In high school, I was in advanced classes and read some of the classic great literature of the ages, and while I made myself get into the stories, I always wondered why books that took so much work to enjoy were the ones that were being valued. Maybe if we had fun reading in our high school classes instead of all of the slow-moving, ponderous classics that are promoted, with a few exceptions here and there, (I loved Ray Bradbury and George Orwell) reading would be more popular. I'd love to hear a truly convincing reason for me to consider giving up some of the fun reading I do that makes me feel happy in exchange for a slow-moving novel that I can only read 30 or 40 pages of at a time which will leave me feeling sad at the end. Just as an afterthough I might mention that I do, of course, enjoy some political reading and I like to get my AlterNet 'fix' every day.

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» RE: Okay, educate me .... Posted by: Samantha Vimes
» RE: Okay, educate me .... Posted by: ABetterFuture
» RE: Okay, educate me .... Posted by: Phenix
Yeah, it's definitely Cryofan
Posted by: peritonlogon on Aug 11, 2006 9:22 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Too bad he/she(?) had to get a new name. Cryo is really the comic relief of Alternet. To atribute Alternet and an article on Women's Lit and Chick Lit to the overclasses attempt to divide and conquor takes some pretty imaginative reasoning. If the world is a magic eye picture, Cryofan can see the sailboat, howerver Cryo would still see the magic sailboat even if the world was just the world.

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» RE: Yeah, it's definitely Cryofan Posted by: medstudgeek
» I am not Cryofan Posted by: rebel_pig
» RE: I am not Cryofan...clearly. Posted by: ABetterFuture
Another Librarian speaking...
Posted by: Callibrarian on Aug 11, 2006 9:23 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And I do have a problem with chick lit. I still try to convince people to put the DVD down and read anything. But the more I read and take note, the more I worry about how readers internalize the messages that prevail in this genre. Like has anyone noticed how often black females---when they actually get written into a book---are likely to be killed off or get a horrible disease? I'm talking about books in general---Nora Roberts, Linda Howard, that kind of thing, and boom, we're dead. In one of the series I love, (MaryJanice Davidson) the sole black character now has cancer. I'm like what the @$%&! Or if a character has an abortion they always die or become infertile? 43% of women in this country will have one, yet 99% of these women in literature end up dead by the final chapter. Yet if a woman up and gets pregnant by a stranger and keeps her kid, the rich guy she got knocked up by will bless her with his loving devotion. No knows how to use a condom, if they're actually using them, and, unlike Grey's Anatomy and Sex and the City, no one gets STDs. Then there are all these books where the woman quits her job on the spot. Do these writers want us to be unemployed? These writers claim to be feminist. They claim to be culturally aware, but in most cases they are selling us copycat fiction based on three novels that worked in the 1990s because they were new and different and then they wonder why we're not buying.

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» Female fantasies Posted by: medstudgeek
» RE: Female fantasies Posted by: molotov
» RE: Another Librarian speaking... Posted by: Aussie Kim
There are only two kinds of writing.
Posted by: fool-on-the-hill on Aug 11, 2006 9:36 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Good writing (i.e., something that an intelligent reader would find worth while) and bad writing (good for lining bird cages).

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That's exactly right.
Posted by: morticia on Aug 11, 2006 10:11 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You're in a rarified atmosphere of truth when you read great writing. You've poked your head up through the literary layers, at the bottom of which lie "men's fiction" and "women's fiction." Those dumb gender classifications, and the further you get from them, are a good indicator of the amount of truth you're likely to get from a writer. Great writing knows no gender. Mary McCarthy, Flannery O'Connor, Dawn Powell, Carson McCullers, Hortense Callisher, Colette, Simone de Beauvoir et al were women, but to call them "women writers" or to say that their work was "for women" would be like saying Bach's music was written for men. For those who wonder what makes great writing great--consider this: with great writers, you read them again and again, because you want to experience the greatness of their writing again. You don't listen to a great piece of music just once, and then say, "I heard that, I don't need to hear it again." It's exactly the same with great writing. And no, great writing does not provide "esacape," because it deals with hard truths, giving you the unexpurgated real deal about our existence on earth. The only "escape" it provides is on the level where you are exulting in the greatness of the writing. And again: great writing knows no gender.

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» RE: That's exactly right. Posted by: frustrated
» RE: That's exactly right. Posted by: molotov
» Literary Elitism!! Posted by: Ktflake
» RE: Literary Elitism!! Posted by: morticia
Hard truths
Posted by: LPB on Aug 11, 2006 10:32 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think the poster immediately above where I think this post will be put it very concisely when she (I'm assuming, because of the name ) said that great writing deals with hard truths. The fact is, I don't read to deal with hard truths. I see hard truth around me every day. I read it in the newspapers and magazines, I hear about it on the news, I watch as much of it as I can face on TV documentaries. Maybe I'm branding myself as weak and cowardly here, but I have to confess that when I read for pleasure, the last thing I want is hard truth. I do occasionally read nonfiction, mostly about spiritual exploration or politics. When I do, I often find myself having to fight despair because it reaffirms my perception of all of the ways in which our society differs from the way I would like it to be and reaffirms my feeling of not being able to make any very effective changes. The hard truth I always come back to is that the only way I can make the world a better place is to try to take responsibility for my own actions and to be a positive influence in my immediate sphere of influence. Reading happy, fun literature allows me to keep up my spirits and my positive attitude so that I can try to do what I can.

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» RE: Hard truths Posted by: morticia
» not all truths are depressing Posted by: jajohnson2
» RE: Hard truths Posted by: mviscid
» RE: Food for thought Posted by: LPB
What do you expect?
Posted by: JoshuaLudd on Aug 11, 2006 11:11 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What do you really expect when you simplify people to consumers looking for a fairytale mate????

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Chick Lit......Sigh
Posted by: playitsam on Aug 11, 2006 12:18 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Some of the top writers are women and the serious writers are given as much press as that which is given to men. The fact is that a lot of people read for escapism as well as education. I'm in the middle of a book called "Oracle Bones." It's an interesting nonfiction narrative about China. When I'm done, I'll dip into something fun - perhaps a good murder mystery. Lighten up, people!

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» Is there dude lit? Posted by: lamar
» RE: Is there dude lit? Posted by: morticia
» RE: Is there dude lit? Posted by: constantreader
» RE: I read O'Brian and Forester Posted by: medstudgeek
» RE: Is there dude lit? Posted by: constantreader
» RE: Is there dude lit? Posted by: ConnecttheDots
» Naaah.... Posted by: medstudgeek
» RE: Chick Lit......Sigh Posted by: ConnecttheDots
» RE: Chick Lit......Sigh Posted by: Kym525
» RE: Chick Lit......Sigh Posted by: ConnecttheDots
"Chick-Lit" only Speaks to SOME Women
Posted by: Kym525 on Aug 11, 2006 1:12 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
One *huge* reason I DESPISE Chick-Lit is that most of it is written by white women for supposedly *The Rest of Us*. As if women of colour, or lesbian women or rural women ever can relate to finding the perfect pair of Manolo Blahniks or some guy with an endless cash supply.

This is not to say that a bit of escapist fiction is bad (I'm a big sci-fi/fantasy/romance reader myself), but the difference between what I read compared to 'chick-lit' is that sci-fi/fantasy tends to showcase kick-butt female characters who don't wait around for some man to rescue them or make them happy. They're not concerned about if the glass shoe fits - they simply don a sword and go out to find the dragon and slay it. In the case of romance books, not only are there more take-charge females, but also a greater diversity of race and body types, which somehow chick-lit has ALWAYS excluded, especially from many of the smaller press publishers.

I've also found that white female characters in these books are so weak and shallow that it's just too hard to relate. They're overly concerned over their weight (which is usually fine) and that sends the complete wrong message to women in general. Bridget Jones made me want to slap her, she was so whiny and self-absorbed (and she's supposed to be like a Jane Austen-type? Not hardly).

I don't think 'chick-lit' needs to die or anything. I just think it needs to slowly phase out, until there's maybe one or two titles on the shelves, rather than an entire slew. Better yet, chick-lit needs a serious injection of diversity.

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» P.S. Posted by: morticia
» Correction: Posted by: morticia
Literary Elitism!! Reposted--needs to be on its own.
Posted by: Ktflake on Aug 11, 2006 2:33 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
O.K., while I get the argument that Chick Lit. isn't the most intellectually challenging reading material, I have a problem with people definining what is 'literary'. I am currently working on my Ph.D in American Lit. and engage in this discussion often. One of the problems with saying 'great writing is X' is that YOU represent the powers that have always defined with 'literary' is whether or not you know it. YOU have not just randomly decided what 'great' literature is. It's what you were told since you were little, it's what you were told in high school because you probably read mostly books by men. For as long as I can remember, it's what I've been told. 'Literary' has always been defined as male and as a literature that deals with 'man on earth' and national issues. This reminds me of two thinkers who have been considered 'great' who essentially defined what 'literary' means. T.S. Eliot and Ezra Pound decided in the early 1900s who was a 'literary' writer (of course they decided they were the most literary of all) and moreso, what genre was literary--only poetry--they themselves would spend decades perfecting one single poem. From here on, American literary culture and history has been shaped by these ideas. I did my Undergrad. degree at UC Davis a few years ago and recently went back and looked at my syllabus for various literature classes I took. In a 20th century American Lit. course, we read only one female writer--Willa Cather. The other 19 authors we read were men. And this was UC Davis, a relatively liberal, California university. What I'm trying to say is that if we really think about it and study it, American literary culture has already been defined and continues to be defined as a predominately White, male enterprise. Because of this, women writers and minority writers who make gender and culture/race/class an issue in their writing are not considered as great and are not given as much clout. I don't think this has to do with Chick. Lit. taking over or obscuring others' views of women's writing, but rather our entire culture is shaped around considering white, men's writing as the norm and everything else as marginal. For this reason, I am choosing to write my dissertation on women writers and to explore the issues of gender they bring up because after all, they are never really considered.

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» true Posted by: Blue Heron
More thoughts on the interview.
Posted by: MatthewSavage on Aug 11, 2006 2:44 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's interesting to me that we, as a culture, seem to imagine the mythical prince come to sweep the Cinderella type away from her wretched life, or the lottery to be won, or some other of the endless permutations.

People seem to feel rather powerless to change their own lives these days. I admit, when I was not that much younger, I was dreaming of lottery winnings. Now I just work hard to get what I want, which is not so much as to require millions of dollars now.

From what was said in the interview, this Deus Ex is a common theme in chick lit, and other lit in general. Think Harry Potter if it had been all sweetness and light once he became a wizard, or his imitators.

A kind of sad way of thinking; sitting around waiting for a miracle instead of going out and making one on your own (excluding Harry Potter because it shows that miracle to be not all it was made out to be). Reminds me of that Leonard Cohen song, "Waiting for the Miracle."

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Again, I offer my definition of "literary,"
Posted by: morticia on Aug 11, 2006 2:51 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
....and no, it's not because anyone "told" me what's good. I say a useful indicator of whether or not writing is "great" is when you go back and read it again and again. Like listening to a fine favorite piece of music more than once, from rock to jazz to classical and so forth. I reread Flannery O'Connor about once a year. I know the "plots" of her stories by heart, but I read her work (and Mary McCarthy's, and Edmund Wilson's, and Colette's, and Paul Bowles', and Dawn Powell's, and Isak Dinesen's, and Ralph Ellison's, and Zora Neal Hurston's, etc., etc,) in order to experience the greatness of their artistry one more time. Beyond that, defining what's "great" writing is a little like defining what's "pornography." As the Justice said, "I know it when I see it."

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» Uh... Posted by: morticia
Chick lit
Posted by: sidewinder on Aug 11, 2006 4:08 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Who the hell cares. alternet is supposed to entertain me and this is not entertaining.

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Zane Grey wrote romance novels
Posted by: astockton on Aug 12, 2006 5:36 AM   
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This might come as a surprise to anyone who has never read a Zane Grey novel, but his he-man cowboy heroes always ended up falling in love--with women, not horses.

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Seems familiar
Posted by: MJK on Aug 12, 2006 6:21 AM   
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This kvetching by the vanguard of women's lit fic sounds eerily to familiar to me, a black woman.

It sounds like bigotry, pure and simple, not far removed from what Rush Limbaugh and Anne Coulter types spout about black people in general.

Genre writers including chick-lit are not inherently inferior. Literary writers are not as intellectually and morally superior as they believe. They're simply stroking themselves off.

I can't approve of bigotry of any sort. I'm wondering why so many are choosing to associate with what I'd easily define as literary bigots.

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» RE: Seems familiar Posted by: screwsan
» RE: Seems familiar Posted by: MJK
» RE: Seems familiar Posted by: MJK
Would you be offended at being called a chick?
Posted by: JoshuaLudd on Aug 12, 2006 8:21 AM   
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Then why would you ever buy into Chick Lit?

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Judging Chik Lit is Silly
Posted by: Outspokengrandmother on Aug 12, 2006 12:22 PM   
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I've always said that practicing reading is great...it doesn't matter what someone reads as long as you read and the more they read the better they get at it. People go through phases in their interests and if "Chick Lit" is a phase - the next phase could be governance or economics if the reader has enough reading skills. Judging "Chick Lit" is just snobism and not very bright snobism at that.

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» RE: Judging Chik Lit is Silly Posted by: screwsan
Shakespear was popular fiction, so was Chales Dickens
Posted by: sisterbluerose on Aug 13, 2006 3:54 AM   
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More than once I've had Lord of the Flies pointed out to me as the kind of book the schools have kids read that could have stopped a reader from reading. This by people that read several books a year. Serious fiction is a crock. All of it is boring and depressing. I never buy serious fiction, women's or men's.
When a writer of Halequin's black women's fiction get's popular she is asked to write for the white women's titles. The white horoine is allowed to have a black best friend, although the heroine isn't allowed to set her up with her brother. Which is funny, because happens a lot in real life these days.
I had a black woman complain to me she couldn't find a black man to date because they were all dating white women. I told her she should be exactly as loyal to them as they were to her and date and marry a white guy. She said that she wanted her kids to be black, and I said with her skin there was no problem. Told her the culture was the same, men everywhere leave the women to raise the kids in the women's culture.
Anyway, I read thousands of books a year, Baens, mysterys, and a lot of romance chick lit, because you can get it used. Also because my husband buys the intrigues and bombshells and passes them on to me after he is done.
The average person reads zero books a year, probably because of the "literature" given to them to read in school.
After I taught my kids to read, I bought them what they wanted to read. They both started out with comic books. Aftter a short period of books for 10-12 year olds though I still buy them the Harry Potters. They are grown. Anyway they started stealing my hard science fiction and my fantasy from me. I had to replace them.
The teachers kept asking me why I didn't have my children read biogrophy. I got to asking them if they thought there was less fiction in biography and autobiography than science fiction and fantasy. I also asked them what was the last book they had read. Usually they hadn't read one that last year. I might have currently been reading chick lit, but I had read something hard within the month.

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» Nope, sorry.... Posted by: morticia
» RE: Nope, sorry.... Posted by: MJK
» RE: Nope, sorry.... Posted by: morticia
» Uh, no... Posted by: anniedine
What is 'Literary'?
Posted by: Orpheline on Aug 13, 2006 8:42 AM   
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The difference between 'literary' and 'non-literary' (my definition) is whether the author's primary purpose is to entertain or explore. Genre fiction is primarily entertainment and features plot-driven stories with very little change in the characters. Chick lit is a good example: at the end of the book, we see the protagonist achieve her goals; we don't see much of a change in who she is. It's brain candy, which can be a vey good thing.

Fiction in any genre is 'literary' if steps beyond the plot to show how the characters change. Their reactions and interactions help us to see how they become who they are at the end of the story. This can help us develop a deeper understanding of how we might react in similar circumstances; it reveals us to ourselves.

The concern so many 'literary' authors and readers have is that the popularity of brain candy on the shelves means less room for the other stuff. Sure, there's an element of "What about me?" in that concern. But the revealing stuff is important. If it gets squeezed out of the bookstores, if all we have left are retreads of Helen Fielding or Sara Paretsky, we lose a tool for self-understanding. Our world narrows.

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Ex Chick Lit Editor, Current Lit Lit Writer
Posted by: screwsan on Aug 14, 2006 11:25 AM   
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I've been a (published) short story writer for years. I used to work as an editing cog in the publishing machine to pay the bills and the place I ended up working (at the time, I needed a job and couldn't be picky) was at an imprint of a huge publisher that did (and still does) a lot of chick lit.

I've been following the chick lit argument for as long as its been around, and I feel well-qualified as both a former purveyor of chick lit (other peoples') and literary writing (my own) to speak on this issue.

I have to say that chick lit authors can make all the claims they want about their novels exploring the female condition (be it white, black, latina, whatever), but they do so from a very limited, upper middle class, American (or Westernist)POV. Moreover, chick lit is simply not intellectually or linguistically rigorous. The writing in chick lit is just not as good as the writing in an acclaimed piece of literature. You compare Jennifer Weiner and Zadie Smith and tell me that Weiner's work doesn't look like drivel next to anything by Smith.

That's one question I never see addressed by the shrill chick lit authors who claim that not supporting chick lit is the same thing as being a misogynist. They make all kinds of claims about chick lit being the expressive voice of the American and European woman, but they can never actually refute the argument that chick lit is simply inferior writing.

For all you defensive "chicks" crying snobbery--wake up and answer the clue phone. Only in America can one be called a snob for requiring their reading to be intellectually stimulating. Only in America could one woman call another "anti-feminist" and then insist that dumbed-down, formulaic, escapist novels are good for women.

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» That's why.... Posted by: morticia
» RE: That's why.... Posted by: screwsan
» RE: That's why.... Posted by: morticia
» RE: That's why.... Posted by: MJK
» RE: That's why.... Posted by: Kym525
» RE: That's why.... Posted by: morticia
Why does "literature" matter anyway?
Posted by: anniedine on Aug 16, 2006 5:11 PM   
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Some commenters here seem to be trying every which way to defend the writing and reading of fluffy entertainment (one person even accused the "not chic lit" crowd of being "bigoted," another wants to conflate Shakespeare with her choice of modern "popular" literature).

They seem to be saying, "by god, I can consume anything I want and those publishers better keep providing it and nobody better question it!!" These folks then want to convince everyone else that it's perfectly normal and ok to avidly consume a steady stream of unchallenging fluff. Yes, and it's "ok" to eat a bag of oreos for dinner.

You can do whatever you want (eat oreos to obesity; read fluff to mindlessness), but don't tell me that reading fluff is just as emotionally, mentally, socially, culturally, and philosophically nourishing as true literature. I, and many others, know the difference between light reading and the kind of thing that challenges us to understand more and to be better than we are.

Why is "The God of Small Things" considered literature and "Bridget Jones Diary" is not? nope, it's not bigotry, not elitism, not snobbishness. It's simply because the former sheds light on the biggest issues humans face and has the chance of helping us rise above our natural tendencies toward myopia, bigotry, indifference, violence, and selfishness; the latter encourages us to focus on the trivial.

In the case of Arundhati Roy's book - and all writing considered "literature" - it is the writing itself (not just the subject matter) that encourages those changes in our understanding and perhaps, in our behavior.

It's quite simple really: if you fill up on oreos, you aren't going to sit down to a healthy meal. If you train yourself to only like oreos, you're not going to learn to like apples, beans, and fish. If you spend your energy convincing yourself (and trying to convince others) that reading fluff and eating oreos is good for you, I bet you won't have much reason to go read and eat the good stuff.

And on our society will go into more and more obesity in body and mind.

A nation filled with people incapable of understanding that what the regular media and neocon government feed us is often outright lies, clever manipulations, or inconsequential drivel is probably a direct result of the national habit of reading crap that makes us feel good in the moment (and thus not having any better critical reading and thinking skills as a result).

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That's why I say.....
Posted by: morticia on Aug 16, 2006 10:01 PM   
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....if you read really good books, you're giving yourself a Liberal Arts education.

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Typo trepidation
Posted by: MJK on Sep 5, 2006 7:17 AM   
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pompous. I do know how to spell. I'm rushing. I'm leery of typos in front of lit fic genre bigots who are determined to label me stupid and inferior because I choose to read for entertainment also.

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