Home
Archive
Newsletters
Video
Blogs
Discuss
About
Search
Donate
Advertise

Collateral Damage on the Mexican Border

By Joseph Nevins, New America Media. Posted August 4, 2006.


The body count keeps growing as the crackdown intensifies against people who were born 'on the wrong side' of a geographical boundary.

Share and save this post:

      

      

Share on Facebook       

AlterNet Social Networks:
follow us on twitter
find us on Facebook

In Special Coverage

Belief:
Is Blind Faith in God and the Bible a Modern Invention?
Devilstower

Corporate Accountability and WorkPlace:
What Can the Morass of the 1970s Tell Us About the Current Economic Crisis?
Alejandro Reuss

DrugReporter:
Why Are We Locking Up Traumatized Veterans for Their Addictions Instead of Offering Them Treatment?
Penny Coleman

Environment:
Why Max Baucus' 'No' Vote on the Climate Bill May Really Help Its Passage
Jeff Mcmahon

Food:
Soda Helps Make Americans Unhealthy and Fat -- Will Soda Tax Prevail Despite Pushback by Beverage Industry?
Christine Spolar, Joseph Eaton

Health and Wellness:
Does the House Bill's Public Option Kill Off the Senate's?
Booman

Immigration:
Recent Democratic Victories May Grease the Wheels for Immigration Reform in Congress
Marcelo Balive

Media and Technology:
Glenn Beck, Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh Stoking GOP Civil War
Eric Boehlert

Movie Mix:
The Yes Men: Pranksters Out to Fix the World
Mark Engler

Politics:
What Obama Is Up Against in His Own Branch of Government
Russ Baker

Reproductive Justice and Gender:
"Precious" Star Claims the Spotlight
Emily Wilson

Rights and Liberties:
Hard to Believe: 73 U.S. Kids Sentenced to Life Without Parole at 14 or Younger, and All Are Black
Liliana Segura

Sex and Relationships:
9 Silly Things People Say When They Hear You Don't Want Kids (And Ways to Counter Them)
Liz Langley

Take Action:
G-20 Meetings: Nothing Much Happened in the Suites, and There Was Too Much Punch in the Streets
Laura Flanders

Water:
Radioactive Wastewater in New York Raises More Concerns About Oil Drilling
Abrahm Lustgarten

World:
Afghanistan Is Worse Off Than Ever, Thanks to the Sham Army We're Propping Up
Chris Hedges

More stories by Joseph Nevins

Advertisement
Upcoming AlterNet stories on Digg

She was 11 years old and was wearing pink sneakers. She was unconscious when they found her in late July on the reservation of the Tohono O'odham Nation in southern Arizona's scorching desert. Doctors at the local hospital tried to revive her, but she died of cardiac arrest brought about by hyperthermia. Her body temperature was 106 degrees.

Her name was Olivia Luna Noguera. Accompanied by her 17-year-old sister, Marisol, she was trying to get to Atlanta, Georgia to reunite with her parents. Instead, she joined the almost 4,000 migrants who have perished while trying to beat the ever-intensifying enforcement web in the U.S.-Mexico borderlands since 1995.

Proponents of the massive border build-up that has taken place since the mid-1990s, and those who advocate more of the same, often contend that heavier policing and enforcement help to reduce deaths. They point to large numbers of rescues of migrants in distress by the Border Patrol. But it is the very presence of the Border Patrol and its policing apparatus that put migrants in harm's way. After all, they wouldn't have to trek through the desert if they could just walk through a port of entry in a safe, dignified and legal manner.

Backers of tougher enforcement ignore the fact that Fiscal Year 2005 was the borderland's deadliest year on record: 463 migrant fatalities. Like all such counts, this is a conservative estimate, as it is based on bodies that were actually found. And FY 2006, which ends Sept. 30, is close to the pace of last year's ignominious toll. As of July 27, according to the Border Patrol, there had been 331 deaths along the U.S. southern boundary.

But such facts mean little to those on Capitol Hill who are shaping policy and the pundits that legitimate the narrow set of federal legislative options being offered. House Resolution 4437, for example--the so-called Sensenbrenner bill--would require 10,000 additional Border Patrol agents over five years, and 700 miles of additional walls and fences.

Meanwhile, the "moderate" Senate bill, and one deemed acceptable by the Democratic establishment, calls for 370 additional miles of walls and fencing and 500 miles of vehicle barriers along the U.S.-Mexico boundary, in addition to 14,000 more Border Patrol agents over the next six years.

In a world of great instability and insecurity--especially for those on the global socio-economic margins--and intensifying ties that transcend international boundaries, there is no question that migrants will continue to try to cross the U.S.-Mexico border despite the risks. This is true regardless of the number of Border Patrol agents and the length and height of the proposed walls. As one man who was getting ready to try to cross into Arizona from Mexico told a reporter just two days before Olivia perished, "Our needs are greater than our fears."

Such needs most likely brought Olivia's parents to Atlanta, so they could provide for their children. And such needs undoubtedly drove them to try to reunite with their daughters--a basic "family value" lost in what passes for debate among those championing a further enforcement build-up on the border.

The tragedy of Olivia Luna Noguera is hardly unique. Such avoidable deaths increasingly occur in the border regions that both divide and bring together rich and poor, the safe and the insecure, the first and third worlds, the white and non-white. They are just one form of suffering and indignity that all too many people must endure simply because they were born on the wrong side of the boundaries that make up the unjust world order in which we live.

Many will no doubt point their fingers at Olivia's mother and father, asking what type of parents would expose their 11-year-old daughter to a treacherous trek through the desert. But such blame is misplaced. Instead, we should be asking what type of people would compel the parents to make a risky choice by denying them and their children the right to be united and to work and reside where they can have access to resources needed for a life of well-being.

Digg!    Share on facebook   submit to reddit    Bookmark on Delicious   Stumble This  

Joseph Nevins is assistant professor of geography at Vassar College and the author of "Operation Gatekeeper: The Rise of the 'Illegal Alien' and the Making of the U.S.-Mexico Boundary" (Routledge, 2002).

Liked this story? Get top stories in your inbox each week from AlterNet! Sign up now »


Advertisement
Advertisement

 

Comments Turn comments off sitewide Give us feedback »
Comments closed.
The comments for this story have been closed. Thank you to everyone who participated.
View:
One-way border is no solution
Posted by: YogiBear on Aug 4, 2006 1:46 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Backers of tougher enforcement ignore the fact that Fiscal Year 2005 was the borderland's deadliest year on record: 463 migrant fatalities.

Well, when you put it that way, I guess Americans who are against illegal immigration are evil, sadistic monsters. All (what is it 80 percent?) of us.

Open borders would save some migrants lives, sure, but it would devestate our economy, ramp up unemplyment and crime, bankrupt our law enforcement, health and education agencies. Whatever the percentages are now of people trying to cross, once you make it easier to gain access, those figures will skyrocket. They'll come in droves from all over Central and South America and really, the world.

But I don't know, maybe it would work. Maybe we could make agreements with those countries that we'll accept their migrants if we can go to those countries and buy property and better ourselves. Because a one-way border is not at all fair.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Um, excuse me, but... Posted by: marklar
» RE: Um, excuse me, but... Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: One-way border is no solution Posted by: criticalpixie
» False charge of racism Posted by: YogiBear
American Citizens First
Posted by: coldeye on Aug 4, 2006 3:29 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
US workers displaced by globalization and technology change need our assistance more than Mexican peasants and workers, and other Central American job seekers.

We either have a regard and yes an awe for citizenship and its benefits and obligations, or we don't. Mexico doesn't have open borders. Few if any countries do. Why should the US in the absence of an EU like agreement with Latin America which would really devastate workers.

Mexico has to provide for its own people and stop trying to support its corrupt regime by exporting flesh and blood.

We do not need to persecute illegal aliens. But we have the right to shut down and imprison their employers, including big wigs like Verizon subcontractors who install Verizon's high speed fibreoptic cables(how many of those guys outside yoru house digging speak Spanish?) and WalMart, as well as teh garment industry and meat packers. We have too manyundemployed black youth who don't get a chance to have the unionized blue collar jobs that allowed legal immigrants and many urban blacks to escape poverty and establish stable families. These jobs are not being offered and refused to our citizen young people. That is a like Bush, McCain and Kennedy propagate so as to keep slave labor coming across the border. Both parties hope to recruit the newe slaves as voters and supporters who will be grateful to the padrone who let them in. Moreover, no public benefits, education,health or welfare should be extended to illegal immigrants or their kids. Even if some court decisions of a few years ago have to be relitigatied, let them, the time is ripe and judges put their greedy fingers to the wind like poliiticians do.

No pogroms or knocking down the doors of people's home but cut off the material support, jobs for our own citizens, particularly young citizens who are in a terrible choice of go to "college"-i.e., a mediocre community college that they are unprepared for anyway- or go to the street life. Let's get working class
Americans, young and old, back in the workplace. Then, and only then, let's see if there are jobs unfilled that legal immigrants can fill.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: American Citizens First Posted by: symcokid
unfree
Posted by: losingmyliberties on Aug 4, 2006 4:18 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Dont blame us, they are the one's brakeing the law. Blame their goverment and are so called goverment that is nolonger for us the people.
And most of all blame the business that hire them to increase profits .

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: unfree Posted by: rhinojos
Let them come and give them citizenship...
Posted by: marklar on Aug 4, 2006 4:44 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...then they will have the right to vote and we can get rid of a great deal of the elitist white man power structure in our political system.
Afterall, isn't that what the white elitist establishment is really afraid of?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Why would anyone WANT citizenship? Posted by: colinmeister
rabble
Posted by: rsaxto on Aug 4, 2006 4:51 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
People who build long tall spiky fences to keep out the rabble ain't nothin' but rabble themselves.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: rabble Posted by: custersbud
» RE: rabble -- hey, deep thinker! Posted by: Pat Kittle
» Rabble with a cause Posted by: YogiBear
Troy Maples
Posted by: Troymaples on Aug 4, 2006 5:44 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There are literally tens of millions of people in the world who want to come to America. If the professor gets his way all of those millions will get to come here. He may want to live in that kind of America, but I DO NOT.

The real culprits in this ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT mess are the American corporations who hire illegals for their cheap labor, and their lackeys in Washington who do the corporations bidding. They couldn't care less for the plight of illegals just as long as they get their CHEAP labor.

Remember, noone put a gun to the head of this child's parents and forced them to cross the border illegally and abandon their child.

The real solution, professor, is bring about real reform in Mexico so the Mexican people can make a decent living. Mexico is not a third world country. It has plenty of resources to take care of its people, but the oligarcy there won't share it with the them. So idiots, like you, want to blame America and our laws rather than work to correct the real problem. GET A LIFE !

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Troy Maples Posted by: Evoman
» RE: Troy Maples Posted by: ezilla
they won't take HIS job
Posted by: zooeyhall on Aug 4, 2006 7:27 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A college geography professor like Mr. Nivens can afford to get on his high moral horse and scold the rest of us for not being as "enlightened" as he is on the subject of illegals. After all, as a college professor he doesn't have to worry about HIS job being taken away by some illegal willing to work for 1/4 the pay.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» and also... Posted by: zooeyhall
» RE: and also... Posted by: Ouelle
POLICE CATCH BURGLARS ON WRONG SIDE OF WOODEN DOORS, CATCH PEDOPHILES ON WRONG SIDE OF KIDS PANTS
Posted by: rebel_pig on Aug 4, 2006 8:28 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
AINT IT A TRAGEDY.

I SAY CATCH THE THIEVES, THE PEDOS, AND THE ILLEGAL ALIENS AND PUT 'EM ALL IN JAIL

WE AMERICANS BUILT THIS COUNTRY AND WHATEVER OPPORTUNITY IS THERE IS THERE ONLY FOR US, NOT FOR FORIEGNERS.

THE RICH UPPER CLASS HAS ALWAYS WANTED MORE IMMIGRATION. LOOKS LIKE WE NOW KNOW WHAT SIDE ALTERNET IS ON.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» You Americans... Posted by: MatthewSavage
» RE: You Americans... Posted by: babs
» RE: You Americans... Posted by: MatthewSavage
I wonder...
Posted by: ClintEastwood on Aug 4, 2006 8:31 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I wonder how Joseph Nevins would like to continue as assistant professor of geography at Vassar College, while earning only 25% of his current salary?

Perhaps Joseph wouldn't mind it if New America Media decided to cut his payments for his articles in half?

I mean, there are a ton of illegal immigrants who would be happy to fill his shoes for a fraction of the cost. Or, those jobs could be outsourced, as well. There is something called the Internet, after all.

He could find a new job, in the service industry. He would only have to wait his turn in line with millions of illegal immigrants.

Of course, the cost of living will only continue to increase, so he may consider three of these jobs of the new American economy? Just a thought.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

What about the COLLATERAL DAMAGE to American wages? Oh, OK, that helps the RICH PEOPLE
Posted by: rebel_pig on Aug 4, 2006 9:02 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
and we know that both the dems and GOP and the left (fake Left?) and the Right are all about helping out the rich. So who cares about the collateral damage to American wages?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

THEY AREN'T U.S. CITIZENS, FOR GOD'S SAKE; physical-economic control of borders fundamental
Posted by: ScottGregory on Aug 4, 2006 9:42 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The title line says it. STOP THE WHINNING FOR THE MEXICANS...they aren't U.S. citizens. They have NO RIGHT to be in the United States of America unless they are lawfully (our laws, not Mex laws) allowed to enter. Physical and economic control of borders is fundamental to any nation's sovereignty. I would like to see a mandatory 1 year sentence in federal prisons for any directors, owners, managers, executives, etc. of any employer who is found to be employing illegal immigrants.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» They are, however, human. Posted by: MatthewSavage
Parents ARE To blame
Posted by: Fade on Aug 4, 2006 9:57 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am sorry- But the Parents of the 11 year old ARE To blame. If their country is in such bad shape, they should work together to improve it = fight to make it a better place. They shouldnt' send their daughter through the desert instead. Our immigration laws made be screwed up- I understand that. But the issue of these people dying as they CROSS A DESERT is something that they realize the risk of as they begin. Should we place water fountains every 3 miles for people who are Illegally entering the country?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Parents ARE To blame Posted by: rhinojos
» Parents ARE NOT to blame Posted by: ezilla
» RE: Open the Vatican's borders!! Posted by: Pat Kittle
A Better Path
Posted by: glorybe on Aug 4, 2006 10:37 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We do need to take military means to secure our borders to prevent weapons, terrorists, and narcotics from slithering across the border. That really has nothing to do with immigrant workers other than the fact that catching them is a by product of having a secure border. However if we allow illegals to enter we are in effect not only inviting Mexicans but the whole of Central and South America to slither across as well. Obviously that must not happen.
The cure for that is to install really severe penalties on anyone who hires an illegal. The loss of a home or a business for the first instance of hiring an illegal would suffice to cause every illegal in the US to rapidly scurry back to Mexico. Applying for work in advance so that police have opportunity to deeply examine every applicant before they work the first hour would do the trick. We also need to insist upon people carrying a really good national ID card at all times so that sweeping up areas for illegals becomes easier and more efficient. Once caught and exported any second offence should be fast tracked to an execution. These easy measures will completely end illegal immigration into the US.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: A Better Path Posted by: babs
» RE: A Better Path Posted by: rhinojos
Sheeesh
Posted by: freeda'all on Aug 4, 2006 2:00 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"After all, they wouldn't have to trek through the desert if they could just walk through a port of entry in a safe, dignified and legal manner."

THEY CAN walk through a port of entry in a safe, dignified & legal manner. It takes paperwork and time though and following the rules like everone else does. The problem seems to be that they don't want to do this.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

ILLEGAL
Posted by: ezilla on Aug 4, 2006 2:26 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
One of the things I find interesting about the "illegal immigrant" debate, is the constant emphasis on the ILLEGAL part. As if illegal action alone justifies hate.

How many of you smoke pot? Thats ILLEGAL. i propse that all pot smokers are thrown out of the country!

My point is, there are plenty of "illegal" actions that do not harm you. There are plenty of "legal" actions that are destroying everything you love.

The citizens of Seattle have just made it official... they want the cops to persue real crimes, crimes that affect your life and my life, and leave prosecuting the 45 year old woman who smokes a little pot on the weekends until they've got nothing better to do. Why don't we feel the same way about topics like this? Illegal immigrants are not the ones harming our society. They contribute just like all the "real" Americans, only with highly curtailed rights.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: ILLEGAL: PS TO ezella, Posted by: SamFox
» RE: ILLEGAL: PS TO ezella, Posted by: ezilla
Have Compassion
Posted by: sofla100 on Aug 4, 2006 5:44 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have before been on both sides of this issue, however, after careful consideration, I don't think we can omit the fact that "illegal immigrants" are human beings. They have children, families, dreams and hopes like all the rest of us. They don't seem to be coming here either to break laws or to steal, just to earn some money for their families so they can survive. They cannot help it that their country is a wreck, oftentimes, it's a wreck because of the US anyway. US policies, we all know, are bent on exploiting third world countries for cheap labor and creating a tiny pro US elite in these countries while the rest of the population is screwed. This is the USA way, and what is called free trade is nothing more than a race to the bottom of everything working people have fought for. Well if trade can be "free," why cannot people be free? Why cannot they vote with their feet. And if we get past the antiquated nation state idea, perhaps more than a few of us wouln't mind picking up and moving to Canada the way things are going here. As for those who want national ID cards and such, you sound like GW Bush material.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Have Compassion Posted by: popsicle67
I love America - the food is wonderful
Posted by: marklar on Aug 4, 2006 6:45 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Today, during the intermission of a baseball doubleheader, I needed to eat something. So I found the first place serving food. It was a Brazillian bakery. I bought a sandwich that was grilled and pressed Virginia Baked Ham and Swiss Cheese on French Bread and they called it a Cuban Sandwich. Damn Immigrants indeed!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

If there is no reciprocity
Posted by: popsicle67 on Aug 4, 2006 8:28 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
then screw mexico. If the Mexican government wants us to let there people come freelythrough the border then we should be allowed the same privilege. Instead Mexico is only interested in letting rich Americans live in mexico while driving their own poor to the US.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

HERE WE GO AGAIN ABOUT THE
Posted by: SamFox on Aug 4, 2006 9:01 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
borders. Here we go again blaming the US for the deaths of those who are basicily burglers. They are (heres the left out key word again) ILLEGALLY breaking into our country. It's the parants fault, not mine, for their daughter's death. She'd still be alive if they went in THE FRONT DOOR! & It's our CS Gov. fault for not enforcing existing law.

As I said on another thread to revsomeone: If you are so FOR amnisty & open borders, invite 4-5 families of illegals into your home. Let them live in YOUR yard & house. Let them drive YOUR car. YOU give them welfare from YOUR OWN pocket. Save the middle man tax collector & take them to the bank & give them YOUR cash! All the rev could do is spitter spatter all over himself. He made no coherant reply to my challange. It gut check time! Do you REALLY beleive your own words? Then back them up with some real action.

Illegal imagrantion supporters should form a co-op so YOU can build them houses & give them YOUR jobs. Put yer $$ where your mouth is or zip dem lips! Tell Gov. to stop taking tax dollers to support the illegals because YOUR co-op is going to support them YOUR SELVES. That'll be the day.

Try doing in Mexico what you say it's OK for them to do here.
Heard this before? It's a felony to be illegal in Mexico! So why are you not pestering Mexico w/all your BS excuses to get them to open up their borders? Whtcha fraid of? Are you a big ole hippacrite or what?

Wanna solve this? Just do as Mexico does about their illegals. Mandatory 2 years for starters.

I SUPPORT SHERIFF JOE OF MARICOPA COUNTY IN ARIZ.!!! YOU GO, SHERIIF JOE!!!!

Yes to Yogi & coldeye too!

SamFox

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Mmmm.. Enchiladas... Posted by: ezilla
It would be quite instructive
Posted by: commonsensewithstanding on Aug 4, 2006 9:42 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
if the proponents of an open border or more lenient immigration politics would be willing to live one year in a native environment in Mexico, working in a normal job. After having experienced first-hand what will become of the US within a very short time, no doubt all of them would be in favour of high electrified walls afterwards.

I did, and I am not a desk-top socialist as obviously is the author of this article. But that is the problem in the USA: people who despite lack of information and substance related knowledge think that they nevertheless should press their opinion onto others.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

IT WOULD ALSO BE VERY INSTRUCTIVE TO
Posted by: SamFox on Aug 4, 2006 10:07 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
go to NewsWithViews.com & alipac.usa. Also World Net Daily & NumbersUSA.
At NWV check out Frosty Wooldridge & Devvy Kidd among others. Unless you are agenda driven, looking for ONLY what backs up pro-ILLEGAL immigration, that is. I think most of the pro-amnisty people are just that. Don't forget NumbersUSA also.

I haven't read all the posts yet. Have they started with racist name calling? Won't be long. Since they have no defensable positon, they must resort to name calling, mis-labeling (immigration instead of illegal immigration-migrants instead of illegal migrants...) blame shifting, trolling for sympathy & other base forms of clouding & reconstructing the issue. None of them say anything about the dangers of MS-13. The diseases (hepititis, leprasy, TB...), the new crime wave from illegals, the rapes, hit & runs, the shoot out at the workplace... On of their biggest tactics is to just ignore the facts. The same tactic of deception went on when Nikita was slamming his shoe in the 50s.

SamFox

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Here's the solution
Posted by: Burton on Aug 4, 2006 11:59 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
She was 11 years old and was wearing pink sneakers. She was unconscious when they found her in late July on the reservation of the Tohono O'odham Nation in southern Arizona's scorching desert. Doctors at the local hospital tried to revive her, but she died of cardiac arrest brought about by hyperthermia. Her body temperature was 106 degrees.

Why don't the pro-immigrant people simply buy airplane tickets for undocumented immigrants? You can then get them a tourist visa, mail them the ticket, and they will come here first class with no risk of dying in the desert.

Once they are here, you can have them overstay their visas. Then you can give them sanctuary.

Let's see you put your money where your mouth is.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» query Posted by: YogiBear
» perfect Posted by: ezilla
No Evidence Illegals are a Problem
Posted by: sofla100 on Aug 5, 2006 9:42 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The "evidence" that illegal immigrants are harming the USA simply is not there. Most of it is all ancedotal. The reality is that illegals take many jobs US workers won't take. The fact that they work for peanuts however is not good, but it speaks to our failed immigration policy. As for the "billions" who would come here if the border was open, that is highly suspect. Probably a lot of people would come from Mexico and poorer countries, yes, but very few would come from the wealthier countries. The net result of immigration however is good for the USA and good for the economy. Some of the areas where jobs are plentiful do not require much training or expertise anyway. As for Super ID Cards, Death Squad Vigillantees on the Borders, military radars, all of this is craziness that won't work anyway.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Reminds me of the photojournalist standing over the truck driver who had his brains beat out...
Posted by: Sojourner on Aug 5, 2006 1:10 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...during the Rodney King riots in LA. All he was interested in was selling his footage.

The writer of this piece justifies sending a child into the desert on the excuse that she "had to do it."

If I had to earn my living writing such maudlin crap, I rather go 'sparing' on the street corner. Makes me sick.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Pathetic
Posted by: sofla100 on Aug 5, 2006 9:12 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The fact is, a draconian approach to US immigration is not going to work anyway. You already have stupid laws, like here in Florida where Cubans always get asylum and others get shipped back, and the fact that so many countries are so poor is due to US policy anyway in many cases. The US is also not a social welfare state by any means. Health care is not available for millions and higher education is mostly for the rich. You can argue all you want over table scraps, why what if some poor schmuck gets a little more than some other poor schmuck? What, is US birth suppose to be the big deciding factor? Pretty pathetic. And because of free trade, you already have a zillion low paying jobs here anyway, all the good manufacturing jobs left long time ago.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Let's get this straight, damn it!
Posted by: esr on Aug 5, 2006 10:05 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Once again, children, THE FUCKEN LAND WAS STOLEN FROM MEXICO. Why are most people in the United Snakes of Amerikkka so stupid. For some reason most of you are starting to understand the plight of Palestinians, and so do I. Most reasonable people can see the evil of Zionism, and so do I, and plainly see that Jews have become the new Nazis in the Middle East and that Jews hold on to the phony argument that the land is theirs and they developed it, blah, blah...
But when it comes to Mexicans, you seem to think they're illegals here, IN THEIR OWN LAND, exactly as Jews consider Arabs to be terrorists for trying to reclaim THEIR OWN LAND.
The fact is, you stupid Europeans, YOU ARE HERE ILLEGALLY and the passage of time doesn't change that fact. GET IT?
You can debate this issue with this shit about they're using up our resources, they should go through the normal immigration process, blah, blah, blah...but none of that shit makes any difference, just like all the arguments that demented Jews make about why they have to defend THEIR COUNTRY. GET IT? How can some smart people be so stupid?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Let's get this straight, damn it! Posted by: commonsensewithstanding
Then get it straight dammit!!
Posted by: freeda'all on Aug 6, 2006 10:44 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Mexico" didn't exist until the Spanish (the other white folks) came and set the boundaries, imposed their European language and culture on it and fought and lost wars with other Europeans over it!! That's the facts Jack.

Aztlan is a myth. Period. Just like leprechauns & pots of gold at the end of the rainbow. Aztlan as a myth didn't extend into the country now known as the USA. It stopped at some unnamed lake somewhere in 'Mexico' as Mexico now exists. To extend the 'borders' of aztlan to the borders of old Mexico of several hundred years ago is a conflation of two unrelated events, one historic & one mythic, for the purpose of creating a third myth and an excuse for your pathetic rage.

You want a better life then get off your ass and go home and make it and stop demanding that we provide it for you!!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Get It: Borders are Arbitrary!
Posted by: sofla100 on Aug 6, 2006 2:30 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
An earlier poster talking about Mexico had a very good point. So called countries are political divisions and in many ways very arbitrary. Land is seized, ceded and moves back and forth across history. And here is my suggestion, if you think you are so "American" and don't want anyone else here, why don't you go talk with the Indians then, they were here long before any of us "US Citizens." See if they really want you here - oh, is it ok then that the land was stolen from them to began with?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Culture of violence
Posted by: albrechtkrausse on Aug 6, 2006 4:43 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Mexico has a strong current of violence and machismo culture. Looks at their entertainment: blood sports such as bullfighting, cock fighting, and dog fighting. All legal and very popular. They have zones of prostitution (even if its technically illegal you'll have no problem finding La Zona Rosa in almost all Mexican towns. They have that huge problem with killing women (many a serial killers, maybe drug fiends, maybe cult group. No one knows because the police don't wish to investigate.) Their television is very sexiest (note that all the hosts are males -usually fat but all the women are young and nubile.) They are fascinated with midgets (in wrestling primarily.) The country has lots of issues.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Culture of violence Posted by: dsomebody
If we slow or stop enforcment, then what?
Posted by: YogiBear on Aug 6, 2006 7:02 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
it is the very presence of the Border Patrol and its policing apparatus that put migrants in harm's way.

My main issue with articles like this is they fail to offer a reasoned alternative to enforcing border issues. If people are dying to avoid running across a patrol, then yes, I have to agree, that ios wrong. But why does that make the policing itself wrong? Using this type of argument, I could say that, since the US sometimes imprisones people who have been wrongfully convicted, we ought to do away with prison time altogether.

Does Nevins want to stop enforcing the border? He thinks that more enforcement will lead to more deaths. But obviously, if deaths are up, then some enforcement will lead to some deaths regardless. So, finish your thought Nevis -- what is your solution? Stop enforcment altogether? I have no idea, because he -- and others who appear to be against enforcment -- fail propose any solutions.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Let them live in your back yard..
Posted by: osisbs on Aug 7, 2006 5:56 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Anti-immigration forces need to purchase properties next to influential policy-makers and rent them to a dozen illegals. That's all it will take. Save the television ads. Save the attorneys. Save the cash. Just turn the house next to your senator into "safe house" and the rest is history.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

javier
Posted by: Javier on Aug 7, 2006 8:24 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I would like to directly respond to this : But such blame is misplaced. Instead, we should be asking what type of people would compel the parents to make a risky choice by denying them and their children the right to be united and to work and reside where they can have access to resources needed for a life of well-being.
I agree fully what kind of people are these mexicans...oppressing their own kind and forcing them to flee their homeland. We liberated Iraq from a corrupt government, if people like the person responsible for the mindset in this article would like we can take over mexico and liberate them as well. I mean really blaming our government because a person is too stupid to have regard for their own life and the life of their kids. by the way what is someone too poor to feed themselves having kids for? Maybe the people of mexico would also benefit from an education. Again blame the mexican government and the mexican people responsible for building that government, don't blame us for wanting to keep cancerous parasites out of our great country. What ignorance, I notice the authors plan at reformation is just to let them all accross, he says they should have access to a legal means...uh they already have legal ways to enter, they are just so uneducated and disrespectful that they don't even bother to apply. It is good that the little girl died maybe those particular mexican parents will stop and think..can i afford kids ? Oh wait America is there to pay for my kids and let me leech off of them. I only hope that during the funeral processions the parents were exposed as illegals and shipped back to what ever cesspool or rock that those roaches crawled out from under.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: javier Posted by: ezilla
» Get Over It Posted by: freeda'all
Europeans get stupider all the time
Posted by: esr on Aug 8, 2006 6:46 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Most of the postings from you white fools only confirms what I said above, that is, WHY ARE WHITE PEOPLE SO FUCKEN STUPID? Did you understand what I said, THE FUCKEN LAND WAS STOLEN! That nullifies any and all other arguments. You idiots need to take a debating class or something. You idiots mouth off about Mexicans having too many children, fact is , you fuckers can't even have kids if you wanted them, you have to have your bitches artificially inseminated, and the sperm probably came from a Mexican! Ever hear of Mexicans needing artificial insemination?
That's not just here, it's happening in Europe too. Whites are on the decline. Nature is finally fed up with your racist, callous asses. There are very few white people I have met that have a heart. Most of you are fucken cruel fucken assholes. You have no soul. Mexicans have a passion that you'll never know. White people, especially men, can't even shed tears because of their hard stone heart. That's why so many of you end up in Alcoholics Anonymous because of your sinister frigidity. You go there and ask your phony god to save you from your troubles. Well the first thing you have to do to save your wicked asses is to let go of your twisted need for power and control. I can go on about the reason Mexicans have to come here to be humiliated and humbled by your white shit. To have to take care of your bratty-assed kids, because of the dumping of your federally subsidized crops into Mexico so that the poor Mexican farmers fail to compete with your crap you dump there. But you don't want to hear that. Your too dumb to be objective about the plight of people of color throughout the world. The arguments you make are always the same anywhere you steal land. The assholes who invaded South Africa said the same fucken shit you idiots make, about that being their country centuries after they stole it. What a fucken laugh. The passage of time does not make stolen land yours. It's still stolen. They were ousted and you will be too. Right always wins in the end. You're scared that our numbers will one day be greater than yours and you're afraid that we may treat your asses the way you've treated ours, that's what the real issue is. But don't worry, we are not like you, we have too much warmth to do what you have done.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Razists should be flagged Posted by: touche
» Get A Clue... Posted by: freeda'all
Disagree
Posted by: VisionQuest on Aug 8, 2006 11:42 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"How do you propose someone that has no work, no way to sustain their family, little hope of ever improving their station in life idealistically 'work together to improve it - fight to make it a better place!'."

I'm sorry, but every grassroots revolution in the history of mankind has been carried out by people with "no work, no way to sustain their family, little hope of ever improving their station in life idealistically." It was this desperation that motivated them to organize and struggle to destroy the systems that were exploiting and oppressing them--just as Mexicans are doing now, in Mexico. The idea that oppressive conditions in one country are best resolved by immigration to another country is short-sighted and inadequate in a global economy.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Disagree Posted by: freeda'all
You would give to those who take from us
Posted by: touche on Aug 9, 2006 6:21 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Everybody who talks about how illegals are "people too" and need a basic standard of living - basically this type of thinking leads to the idea that there is a global government, that wealth should be distributed evenly among all people in the world, so that everyone gets a decent standard of living. The problem with this reasoning is that people continue to have more than two-children families, i.e. population growth on a planet with limited resources. Also, the poorest people tend to be the ones who have the most children. All you would accomplish with this Communist way of thinking, would be to reverse the demographics of the rich and the poor.

In other words, there are those who think that despite our strained budget and resources, the U.S. has unlimited supplies of welfare and jobs to hand out to everybody, and we should do so until we are reduced to the same level of prosperity as a third-world African country.

Here's an interesting movie about illegal immigration: "The Line in the Sand."

http://www.yggdrasilfilms.com/TheLineInTheSand.wmv

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Javier is back with facts
Posted by: Javier on Aug 9, 2006 7:58 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is true this land was stolen but it was made into the best country in the world. mexicans never did that in mexcio that is why so many would rather run here like cowards than face their own gov't.

• In Los Angeles, 95 percent of all outstanding warrants for homicide (which total 1,200 to 1,500) target illegal aliens. Up to two-thirds of all fugitive felony warrants (17,000) are for illegal aliens.

• A confidential California Department of Justice study reported in 1995 that 60 percent of the 20,000-strong 18th Street Gang in southern California is illegal; police officers say the proportion is actually much greater. The bloody gang collaborates with the Mexican Mafia, the dominant force in California prisons, on complex drug-distribution schemes, extortion, and drive-by assassinations, and commits an assault or robbery every day in L.A. County. The gang has grown dramatically over the last two decades by recruiting recently arrived youngsters, most of them illegal, from Central America and Mexico.

• The leadership of the Columbia Lil’ Cycos gang, which uses murder and racketeering to control the drug market around L.A.’s MacArthur Park, was about 60 percent illegal in 2002, says former assistant U.S. attorney Luis Li. Francisco Martinez

Good luck finding any reference to such facts in official crime analysis. The LAPD and the L.A. city attorney recently requested an injunction against drug trafficking in Hollywood, targeting the 18th Street Gang and the “non–gang members” who sell drugs in Hollywood for the gang. Those non–gang members are virtually all illegal Mexicans, smuggled into the country by a ring organized by 18th Street bigs. The Mexicans pay off their transportation debts to the gang by selling drugs; many soon realize how lucrative that line of work is and stay in the business

it is much worse than people realize

the cops can't report them as illegals to be sent back because they dont want a gang war on their hands

the U.S gov't wont send them back because of marches like the one that just happened, and political figures want the hispanic vote. the U.S hispanic community will get mad that we are sending back such a large number of illegals and protest, even though they are known criminals. (at least 12,000 for gang crime in L.A. alone, countless others for various violent offenses)

the mexican gov't has paid off churches and civil liberties organizations within the united states to help improve mexico's image to mexican americans so that they can influence change in laws wtihin the U.S and cause civil disrest in our steets and communities (like these recent protests)

the mexican gov't has also taken time out on spanish radio and television stations urging hispanics to protest our gov't against sending them back. (they dont want to deal with so many additional criminals in their country, they would rather them be here) can you believe that a foreign county is urging people within the U.S to take action against it's gov't about how officials handle criminals? can you believe that the same foreign gov't is also convincing hispanics in the united states that sending back criminals who are illegal aliens is ethnic discrimation? it is propaganda, it is like arab t.v but in spanish. who ever obeys other countries propaganda is guilty of treason

if there was ever a U.S conflict with mexico, would people who march under other countires banners and hang mexican flags in their rooms choose to fight for the united states? you remember the U.S right? (thats the country where they wanted to become citizens and call home)

and finally, does the U.S really need any more ghettos? statistics show that the poor and uneducated are more likely to become involved with gangs, drugs and crime. we have quite enough of that here already.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Javier is back with facts Posted by: freeda'all
another thing
Posted by: Javier on Aug 9, 2006 9:32 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
oh and another thing if mexicans have so much more heart and soul and are always so much more compasionate, then why are there more mexicans killing mexcians then there are whites killing whites. yup that is some passion that i will never know. seems like mexicans cant have a wedding, family reunion, or back yard bbq with out one killing another one over some minor thing, like what cousin slept with whose boyfriend and who is going to be the babies daddy. i notice mexicans dont seem to mind selling drugs to eachothers kids either. in fact i wonder how much passion it takes a mexican who smuggles other mexicans across to abandon those people to die as soon as he sees the cops. i think the answer was on the news the other night when the smuggler escaped and the van full of mexicans he was smuggling died at the rest stop he left them at. (i wonder if he managed to shed a tear?) crime on the mexican border states is higher than crime on the canadian bordered states. is that a coincidence? some states border countries full of "cruel" people who manage a succesful gov't and co-exist peacefully some other states border a nation of people who have a "passion" about killing one another and built a flimsy corrupt gov't that certainly envies one full of people smart enough not to screw it up.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

hearts of stone
Posted by: Javier on Aug 10, 2006 7:39 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
i had to post again in response to the person who was flapping his mouth about how much soul and passion mexicans have and how whites have hearts of stone. here is an article.

Just this week, the bodies of four more women were found half buried in the desert on the outskirts of Ciudad Juarez, Mexico. The grim discovery brings to nearly 100 the number of young women who have been murdered in a grisly series of sexual homicides haunting this ramshackle border town.

February marks the tenth year the serial murders have dragged on. Mexican authorities, unable to catch the killers, are roundly accused of being inept, corrupt and even complicit in the killings. Meanwhile, as NPR’s John Burnett reports, Juarez has become -- for women -- a city of fear.

The problem has grown beyond the serial murders. In the past decade, more than 300 women have been killed in Juarez. Every type of homicide against women is common in the city, especially domestic and drug-related killings.

Finding yet another body in the vast expanse of scrub brush outside the city is becoming a common occurrence. "Sometimes the corpses are not complete because the animals disperse the bones," says Ramon Anaya, a former water department employee who volunteers with a group that searches for skeletons in the desert. "It depends on how long they've been in the desert."

Since 1993, the corpses of 90 to 100 women -- no one has an exact count -- have turned up in the desert, in vacant lots and drainage ditches. All were raped, some mutilated.

Just as troubling, hundreds of girls have disappeared from the streets of Juarez, a city of 1.5 million people. Many of the victims were chillingly similar: young, slim, dark complexion, shoulder-length hair, and poor daughters of the working class.

They were girls like Alejandra Andrade. The 17-year-old was kidnapped on Valentine's Day, 2001, and six days later her nude body was found wrapped in a blanket and dumped in an empty lot in front of the plastics plant where she worked. She had been choked, savagely beaten in the face, and parts of her breasts had been removed.

"What did she go through during those six days? I can only imagine," says the victim's mother, Norma Andrade de Garcia. "Only a person sick in the head could do this to young girls. The terror they cause in their victims... no one can describe."

Part of the problem, Burnett says, is the city itself -- an environment well suited to random violence.

"Juarez is headquarters to a major drug cartel, with its attendant violence and lawlessness. For every one woman killed in Juarez, four men die violently," Burnett says.

Another problem is the region's machismo culture. "Despite the fact that most of the victims... were schoolgirls or workers, there's a persistent belief around town that the targeted women somehow invited the attacks," Burnett says.

"Nowadays, it's a common joke when two men see a provocatively dressed woman, for one to elbow the other and say, 'She better watch out or she'll end up in desert.'"

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Specious Arguments
Posted by: fermatsenigma on Aug 10, 2006 10:39 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
America was stolen. Stupid argument, all land was stolen by the current occupants, unless of course you're a proto-hominid still living where you came out of the trees. Read a little history folks.

The only important fact is the current law of the land. Illegal immigration is illegal whether you like it or not.

America was built by immigrants. Yeah it was, but the last time I looked America was built, we don't need anymore help in that regard.

Illegal immigrants have rights too. Yeah they do, the right to be deported back to their own country.

The Mexican government is responsible for providing for the welfare of its citizens, not the US. The fact that it has proven itself incompetent in doing so is no concern or responsibility of ours. If the citizens of Mexico (or any other country) can't support a family then they shouldn't have one. It's just common sense. Can't afford it = Can't have it. Simple math, even for a country that still has citizens that stone so-called witches.

Open borders will turn the US into the same kind of third world dump that Mexico has become. Just cross over to Nuevo Laredo and see what awaits. The drug gangs are in charge, the police and army can't maintain order or the safety of the citizens. Police and Army aren't paid a living wage so graft and corruption are widespread. Ask about the mordida.

Solutions? I think the first step should imposing a one million dollar fine for EACH illegal immigrant a company or individual hires. Said fine should be not be dismissed by bankruptcy or even death. Let the IRS thugs collect it.

Yes we need a guest worker program. But not one that bankrupts our services. No guest worker should be allowed to receive any free social services and any conviction means instant and permanent deportation. Mexico (or any other interested country) should be forced to put up a cash bond (cash because Mexico has a record of not paying it's debt, check it yourself and see how much has been forgiven by the US to date) for each guest worker, gauranteeing their return to Mexico and payment for any medical treatment or other necessary social services. Every unused dollar would be returned when the guest worker returns home. No children born to guest workers would be automatic citizens.

Overstaying a visa or worker permit needs to be a felony, minimum two year jail term and permanent deportation.

Illegal immigration needs to be a felony so state and local police can arrest and deport illegals.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

  • AlterNetYour turn

Support AlterNet
Do you value the information you're getting from AlterNet? Please show your support with a tax-deductible donation.


Feedback
Tell us how we're doing.

Advertisement
Advertisement