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Israel's Wall of Horrors

By Chris Hedges, Truthdig. Posted August 1, 2006.


Israel's security wall has ripped a mortal gash in the lives of Palestinians living in its shadow.
080106_story
Israel's Barrier to Peace

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The rage and extremism of the Islamic militants in Lebanon and the occupied territories in the West Bank and Gaza appear incomprehensible to the outside world. The wanton murder, the raw anti-Semitism, the callous disregard for human life, including the lives of children and other innocents, permit those on the outside to thrust these militant fighters in another moral universe, to certify them as incomprehensible.

But this branding of these militants as something less than human, as something that reasonable people cannot hope to understand, is possible only because we have ignored and disregarded the decades of repression, the crushing weight of occupation, the abject humiliation and violence, unleashed on Lebanese and Palestinians by Israel because of our silence and indifference. It is the Israeli penchant for violence and occupation that slowly created and formed these frightening groups.

The failure by the outside world to react to the years of brutal repression, the refusal by the United States to intercede on behalf of the occupied Lebanese and Palestinians, gradually formed and galvanized the radicals who now occupy the stage with Israel, answering death for death, atrocity for atrocity.

Those inside these zones of occupation pleaded over the years for help. We refused to listen. And once they burst through these barriers, enraged, bloodied, bent on revenge, we recoiled in horror, unable to see our complicity. We asked them to be quiet, to be reasonable, to calm down, and when they did not, their blood heated by years of abuse and neglect, we condemned them to their fate.

The barrier built by Israel in the West Bank is one of the most tangible and important symbols of this long humiliation, this strangulation of the Palestinians by Israel. To understand the role of this barrier is to begin to understand the rage it has now unleashed. Understanding is not excusing, but until we grasp that these militants do not come from another moral universe, until we face our own complicity in their creation and the awful violence now underway in Lebanon and the occupied territories, we cannot begin to understand the gross injustices that fuel these militant movements. It was, after all, the $10 billion in loan guarantees by the United States that made this barrier possible.

Ending the loan guarantees, as long as they were used to build settlements and seize even more Palestinian land, would have done more to blunt the rage and violence of militants than all the iron fragmentation bombs Israel has dropped on the hapless civilians in Lebanon, the West Bank and Gaza.

But we react too late. We react to the manifestation of rage rather than the cause of rage. We are as morally compromised as those we condemn, as incomprehensible to them as they are to us. And until we become comprehensible to each other there will not be peace in the Middle East.

Massive, cold and alien

There is a 25-foot-high concrete wall in Mrs. Nuhayla Auynaf's front yard. The gray mass, punctuated by cylindrical guard towers with narrow window slits for Israeli soldiers, appears from her steps like the side of a docked ocean liner. It is massive, cold and alien. The dwarfed shrubs, bushes and stunted fruit trees seem to huddle before it in supplication. I struggle to make sense of it, the way I struggled to make sense of the smoldering rubble that was the World Trade Center a few hours after the planes hit.

We do not speak. Mrs. Auynaf lives with the wall. She is as drawn to it as she is repelled by it. It absorbs her. She goes out on her second-floor balcony every morning and looks at it. She implores it for answers, as if it is a Sphinx that will answer the riddle of her new existence. "My old life ended with the wall," she tells me.

The wall, built by Israel a year before, blocked her from the neighboring Israeli town of Kfar Saba where she used to shop. It cut her off from Israel. It made it hard to reach the rest of the West Bank. The lone Israeli checkpoint with its guard towers, floodlights, concrete barriers, dust, stench, crowds, special pass cards, intrusive searches, rude remarks by border police were more than she could bare. She tried to pass through once.

"I could not stand the humiliation," she says. "I turned back. I went home. Now I never leave."

The wall reduces her world to its ugly perimeter. Her five boys beg to go to the seaside. The wall makes this impossible. No one goes to the sea anymore. There are days when the checkpoint is sealed, days after suicide bombings or days when the Israeli soldiers shut it down abruptly without explanation. On those days she sometimes gathers up her children and walks the empty streets, wandering like prisoners in a circle. Other families do the same. It gives her a sense of movement. Families pass each other two, three, four times in an afternoon. All are thinking the same thoughts.

"The town would rent buses to go to the sea," she says. "We would go for the day. We would stand in the water. We would look at the rocks and the waves. This was before."

The house is pleasant. It was finished at the start of the uprising, when business was good and peace seemed possible. The floors are marble. The kitchen has a counter and white appliances. The sofa and chairs have muted blue and beige stripped fabric. We sit in the living room. A large window fan, set on the floor in front of the open door, provides a weak breeze. The door frame is filled with the expressionless gray face of the wall. It draws our eyes to it, the way a muted television screen distracts me during conversations. Sometimes we turn to look at it, as if it is a presence in the room, someone who should be offered sweet tea or a glass or water or asked to leave. We want it to speak to us.


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Chris Hedges is the former Middle East bureau chief for The New York Times and the author of "War Is a Force That Gives Us Meaning."

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58 years of Subjugation and Repression
Posted by: Abushite on Aug 1, 2006 3:36 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
At what point would it be reasonable for a grand father to snap ?
At what point would it be reasonable for a father to snap ?
At what point would it be reasonable for a grand mother to snap ?
At what point would it be reasonable for a mother to snap ?
At what would it be reasonable for their descendents to say enough is enough ?

When David took up his sling against Goliath, were his descendents those that defend themseves against the horrohs wrought by Israel.

Is there something in the psyche of Iraelis that is a result of the abuse and repression they received at the hands of the Germans. It is an accepted fact that a person abused as a child has the propensity for violence as an adult ? What other reason is there for Israel's continuing inhumanity ??????

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» RE: Conservasaurus's Jews Posted by: Plexius
» RE: Conservasaurus's Jews Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Conservasaurus's Jews Posted by: paschn
» RE:Bullys gotta punch Posted by: marklar
» RE: Bullys gotta punch Posted by: willymack
» RE: Bullys gotta punch Posted by: ignition
Required Reading For Every American
Posted by: Nez46 on Aug 1, 2006 4:04 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am so sick and tired of being complicit in the slaughter of innocents....

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» Canon fodder Posted by: pierrot
» RE: Canon fodder Posted by: yellow
» RE: Canon fodder Posted by: pierrot
stop messing up
Posted by: rsaxto on Aug 1, 2006 4:15 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If the Israelis would stop messing up the lives in Lebanon and the lives in Palestine and if the USA would stop helping them do it, "terrorism" would vanish in that area of the Middle East. The prime creators of terrorism are the Bushies and the Israelis.

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» RE: stop messing up Posted by: rinpochet
» RE: stop messing up Posted by: pierrot
in shock again
Posted by: siriuschange on Aug 1, 2006 5:01 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is really a horrendous story .I think that the Israeli Government , with American support , thinks it has the right , because of its power , to do anything it wants.It has completely lost its moral bearings , and that will break its spirit in the long run . The behavior of the soldiers is atrocious . Israelis and Israel are bringing shame to the Jewish people .

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» RE: in shock again sickofsleaze Posted by: ladybug1@carrollsweb.com
» RE: in shock again sickofsleaze Posted by: rinpochet
» RE: in shock again sickofsleaze Posted by: rinpochet
CONGRATULATION!
Posted by: pierrot on Aug 1, 2006 5:29 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Congratulation! It's just about the first time in 40 years that the truth about the conflict in the middle east can be read or herad in the US media!

All the present problems started with the completely illegal and provocative building of hundreds of civil settlement all over the occupied territories by the israeli government, thus strangulating by this UNILATERAL AGGRESSION millions of innocent Palestinians - which when they defend themselves, which is perfectly legal, are called 'terrorists'. These settlement violate countless UN resolutions (Saddam greets you Mr. Bush!), the Geneva Convention, the road map (the zionist brown shirts continue building settlements up to and at this very moment!), etc, etc, - but the US doesn't care and supports these mindboggling crime with bio of $ every year.

Understand why 9/11 was self inflicted. What would we do in the place of the Palestinians and their arab allies?

Does anyone have the mail address of Michel Moore (even he hasn't got the point so far... just to show to what extent the american people have been brainwashed by the media and the government and the zionist lobby).

So called 'terrorist' organizations like Fatah, Hamas, Hitzboullah, and even Al Quaida, didn't even exist for another 10 or 20 years after the israeli state terrorism started in full force in 67.

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No self-defense allowed!
Posted by: chomsky on Aug 1, 2006 5:35 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Let me get this straight...

When Israel retaliates against Palestinian terrorists who wantonly kill Israeli civilians, they are condemned for respondingly "disproportionately." But when Israel builds a barrier to prevent Palestinian terrorists from killing Israeli civilians in the first place, they are again condemned for having the gall to defend themselves.

Why don't you just say what you really mean - that the role of Israel and the Jews is to just sit there, with noses buried in volumes of Talmud, and wait for the peace-loving Palestinians to come and murder them? God forbid Jews should actually defend themselves!

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» RE: No self-defense allowed! Posted by: AmeriPole
» RE: No self-defense allowed! Posted by: rinpochet
» RE: No self-defense allowed! Posted by: pierrot
» RE: No self-defense allowed! Posted by: chomsky
» RE: No self-defense allowed! Posted by: pierrot
» RE: No self-defense allowed! Posted by: rinpochet
» RE: No self-defense allowed! Posted by: pierrot
» RE: No self-defense allowed! Posted by: pierrot
» Bedtime? Posted by: coldeye
» Party Memo Posted by: coldeye
» RE: No self-defense allowed! Posted by: particle
» RE: No self-defense allowed! Posted by: siriuschange
If you lived
Posted by: rinpochet on Aug 1, 2006 6:05 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
in an area targeted by suicide bombers coming across the border, there would be no argument against a wall to protect your people from this. You would certainly not be sympathizing with those who want to kill you. Or maybe you would! How masochistic are you?

It is possible in my lifetime, but highly doubtful that Alternet will post an article sympathetic to Israel.

The rich arab nations surrounding Israel could immediately lift up the lives of the Palestinians but to do so what make them less likely to feel the need to kill Israeli's so they continue to be used as a political pawn and we will continue to see articles from this site crying over the plight of Palestinians, of course never giving responsibility for their plight to their fellow arabs but to the tiny nation of Israel.

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» RE: If you lived Posted by: mokidugway
» RE: If you lived Posted by: rinpochet
» moral relativism, redux Posted by: mokidugway
» RE: If you lived Posted by: pierrot
» RE: If you lived Posted by: yellow
wonderland
Posted by: mokidugway on Aug 1, 2006 6:11 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What? Palestinian kids are getting accidently shot by bullets from the rifles of Israeli soldiers!

Well, that certainly sounds bad--if it is even true, and not just more anti-Israel propaganda--but you have to remember, these dirty little kids would just grow up living in poverty and decide to become suicide bombers, and there are so many of them anyhow, who'd even miss one? I mean, I hate to say it, but that's just reality.

Try to remember--they're not like us. They glorify killing! We just do it because we have to. It's a sad responsibility, but as long as one terrorist remains standing we have to kill every civilian around them. And I don't mind telling you that we kill people with real bombs, real weapons, not this jerryrigged ragtag terrorist bullshit. We can hit a target! Except, that is, when we kill UN observers or scores of helpless civilians. In those cases we are so blinded by the tears of righteous indignation that we miss. No, we don't miss! We are incapable of wrong-doing! What I meant to say is those ANNOYING Arabs like to run as fast as they can toward our bombs, just so they will die and make us look bad.

There's nothing these people won't do to make Israel look bad. Because Palestinians aren't content just to be untrustworthy, unaccomodating terrorists-in-waiting. They are also really bad sports. We build a nice wall--a really top-notch, quality piece of construction that will last for generations--and we don't even charge them a dime, and the complaining never ends.

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» Go ask Alice... Posted by: srqwolf
It is a Horror and it is APARTHEID!!!
Posted by: wawa on Aug 1, 2006 6:12 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The International Court of Justice had ruled The Wall is illegal:
where it does NOT follow the Green Line and must come down.

Anarchists Against the Wall, locals and Internationals NONVIOLENTLY ROSE UP in solidarity against the IDF in Budrus and The Wall was moved off their land and built on the Green Line!!!

If the wall were about security it would be inside the Green Line, NOT on Palestinian property!

The Wall is about grabbing land, water, dividing families, devastating the Palestinian economy, preventing farmers to access their property with the hope they will just leave. AKA: ethnic cleansing.

SOME MORE FACTS sent from Bethlehem, another OPEN AIR PRISON and published on WAWA Homepage Oct. 2005:

The direct effect of the wall is that 10% of the West Bank will be confiscated and Palestinians will be isolated from each other and from the world in prison-like zones.

• The current wall is at least 360 km long (3 times as long and twice as high as the Berlin Wall); once completed it will reach over 700 km, completely encircling and dividing the West Bank.

• 295,000 to 400,000 Palestinians will be isolated from the West Bank because their homes will fall between the Wall and the Green Line.

• Rural populations will be walled off from primary urban centers where essential services are available, such as hospitals, schools, markets and places of worship.

• The wall has two forms: cement and/or a fenced road. The cement wall ranges between 6-9 meters in height. The fenced roads range from 40-100 meters wide. Sniper towers, trenches, trace roads, patrol roads, gates, footprint detection fields, sensors, and cameras support both forms.

• A system of "special permits" for Palestinians will be set up by Israel to allow for passage through the check points at the wall. Israel will have total control on the movement of the inhabitants and will seek their total “obedience” in order to get permits.

• Seven villages (approximately 19,000 Palestinians) lie between the Green Line and Bethlehem will be completely isolated. These villages are the main vegetables and meat providers to the Bethlehem governorate.

• As of Oct. 2005, The United Nations was already feeding over 1,100 families in the Bethlehem area through direct food aid. This number is likely to increase if subsistence farming declines due to restricted access to farmlands.

• The route of the wall will insure that all settlements’ clusters fall on the Israeli side together with most of the Palestinian agriculture land and underground water.

• About twelve to fifteen Palestinian residential buildings at the entrance of Bethlehem are under threat of evacuation or demolition, in addition to the Armenian Church property and an Islamic cemetery.

• After the completion of the wall, we expect percentage of migration to get higher to endanger the historical existence of the Christian community in Bethlehem. As of this publication, more than 200 Palestinian Christian families have migrated to other countries.

Public service message from an American Eye Witness from the other side of the wall, reporting ALL for the
.org
WeAreWideAwake

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History and Understanding
Posted by: liret on Aug 1, 2006 6:18 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In yesterday's speech to justify current bombings in Lebanon, Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert asserted "we're not prepared to give up our right to live perfectly ordinary lives".

This right was taken away from Palestinians 89 years ago, when the Balfour declaration opened the way for one of the most cynical and effective landgrabs in modern history. With a deeply sophisticated balance of intimidation, moral claims, legal bullying, topographic re-engineering, and cultural obliteration, the Israeli project, born of centuries of Jewish persecution in Europe, took root with a declared policy of "putting facts on the ground".
This was accomplished with the blessing of a West whose interests it overall served, and whose assumption it was that the displaced Palestinian populations would eventually be given a footnote in the history books as a sad but necessary casualty of a noble history on the march.

Mr. Hedges’s article is eloquent, but it could and should have been written three years ago, ten years ago, thirty years ago, fifty-eight years ago, and especially seventy five years ago, when the facts on the ground could still be undone.

Now, it is too late. When you treat people like animals, it should hardly be surprising that some of them will eventually start behaving like animals.

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There is no shock for me
Posted by: symcokid on Aug 1, 2006 6:40 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
because what is happening today in Palestine is precisely the way this "Great Turtle Island" was stolen from the Native Indians. There was no help for the Indigenous People either and most of the World is aware of their plight today!!!

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» RE: There is no shock for me Posted by: zoomorph
» The Guilt Trip is Over Posted by: coldeye
» RE: The Guilt Trip is Over Posted by: coldeye
» What the fuck is fuching? Posted by: ignition
Things will never be the same again
Posted by: shyguy709 on Aug 1, 2006 6:40 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The ionic bond between the US and Israel is the unseen human atomic bomb. Can u see the brotherhood between 'Jews and Christians', the wedding between the US/Isreal, a bitter pill lto swallow.

I do not want to mention the role of Jews in some big conglomerates especially in the US...

Enough of blood has flown under the bridge, so many people have blood in their hands...

Leaders should not indulge on a witch hunt based on irrational motivations.

let us not forget what John Mackinder(1861-1947) said, " he who rules East Europe commands the heartland; who rules teh heartland commands the World Island; who rules the World Island commands the world."

The only enemy to life are human beings, because presently we talk of globalization and yet we are globalizing our own mistakes and sweeping ourselves into an orgy of mass extinction

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» OK.. I'll play.. Posted by: Conservasaurus
» Sneaky, Aren't They? Posted by: coldeye
» RE: Sneaky, Aren't They? Posted by: Conservasaurus
Ireland or South Africa?
Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Aug 1, 2006 7:06 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
While the Palestinian situation is often compared to the Irish one with the IRA, though, as many have pointed out, Britain never bombed southern Ireland in response to IRA attacks, as the Israeli army is doing. The British never rounded up the Irish in ghettos (not in the recent past, anyway) either, nor practiced collective punishment of the entire Irish people (perhaps the story was different in 1850).

However, the situation in the Lebanon-Israel-Palestine area is looking much more like the apartheid state of South Africa. Remember how much Reagan loved the 'old traditions' of South Africa? The 'black homelands' are similar to the 'Arab ghettos' of Israel, and the prison walls, insulting and racist behavior from the soldiers - we've seen all this before.

I'm starting to think that the movement to get all universities to stop investing in South Africa, and to ban contracts with companies that operated there is a good model -well, given the behavior of the Israeli government, the deliberate collective punishment of civilian populations in particular, I think that such a movement to divest from investments in Israel would be a good idea. The Israeli army needs to realize that it's behavior is doing far more to harm what remains of the international Israeli reputation ten anything else; this latest incursion into Israeli has damaged the local economy; the constant stream of US weaponry is the only reason the army can keep this up - and it will just result in more misery for everyone in the region, Israeli citizens included.

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» RE: Ireland or South Africa? Posted by: Conservasaurus
Israel is the model
Posted by: rwa on Aug 1, 2006 8:04 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
For all those who think that Israel is run by the most despicable, racist and repressive regime in the world here is some very bad news indeed.

Not only are the Israeli state and its ruthless methods here to stay they could also be, very frighteningly, a prototype of our collective global future.

Watching the unbelievable destruction wrought by the Israelis in Gaza and Lebanon a simple question very high on many minds must be ' How in hell does this artificially concocted child of European guilt and American ambition get away with all this again and again and again?’

The answer is that instead of being a strange historical aberration Israel may well be a model state that global elites want to establish to control the world in the days to come.

A world where the ruling classes live off the stolen resources and labour of those they contemptuously deem 'lesser human beings’ in a system of institutionalized apartheid.

A world where the forces of the militarized State can routinely shoot anybody, even entire populations and call them 'terrorists’ with complete impunity.

A world where the process of nation building automatically involves smashing the sovereignty of every other nation reducing their people to a faceless, nameless, helpless mass.

The question of why Israel’s brazen crimes against humanity have been tolerated by the so called 'international community’ is not new at all, being one asked from the very day this nation was violently forged six decades ago. The legacy of Zionist terrorism, the numerous pogroms against the Palestinians, the systematic usurpation of their land, the routine bombing of civilians, the murder of peace activists--- any other fledgling nation even contemplating crimes on this scale would have been ostracized out of existence by now.











Israel today has become the template of a terrible global future. Here is where the accumulated burdens of the past, stoked to the right temperatures in the crucible of the present, are shaping the contours of a world yet to come.

Already, the aggressive Israeli 'whatever the cost’ pursuit of self-interest - unfettered by any principles of civilized behaviour and contemptuous of all international law- has become the role model for governments in many other parts of the world. Every indicator points to this sad trend. The way the leaders of the world have openly acquiesced in the Israeli assault on the Palestinians and Lebanese in recent days is testimony to the fact that elites everywhere find this violence a useful exercise, not just in the context of the Middle-East itself but on their own home turf too.

Just take your eyes off for a minute from Israel and look around the globe and you can see what I mean. Look at the mini-Israels that governments everywhere are operating within their own national boundaries against the poor, the ethnic minorities, the historically marginalized or any population that can be enslaved at low cost. For the votaries of the hard state and the preservers of privilege everywhere Israel is the pioneering trendsetter in newer and more brazen ways of exercising illegitimate power.

That is why even as many governments condemn Israel in public, they are also slyly figuring out how best to incorporate elements of similar repression within the apparatus of their own states.

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» Exactly true. Posted by: jreinhart1
» RE: Israel is the model Posted by: zoomorph
» RE: Israel is the model Posted by: marklar
Zionism is a concept, not a faith.
Posted by: jreinhart1 on Aug 1, 2006 8:06 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
To understand Zionism, there are many books about it's creation (1890), it's creators of the World Zionist Congress, where they came from (not Hebrew or Semite), their involvement in WW I at the request of British Christian Zionist Balfour in 1918, the Irgun and Stern terrorist organisations that lead to the creation of Israel (Ze'ev Jabotinsky, David Ben-Gurion, et. al.), and the long term goal of the annialation of arabs to create greater Israel

On that day, God made a covenant with Abram, saying: "To your descendants I have given this land, from the river of Egypt as far as the great river the Euphrates. The land of the Kenites, Kenizites, Kadmonites; the Chitties, Perizites, Refaim; the Emorites, Canaanites, Gigashites and Yevusites." - Genesis 15:18-21.

The Zionists knew of the slaughter of Jews in German occupied Europe but did nothing as they were waiting for the opportunity to create a nation based upon their own concepts of extreme right wing fascism under the guise of helping the very people that were tortured by the Nazis and ignored by the western world. The US and other western nations knew what was going on in Germany and did NOTHING, just as the Zionists saw it as an opportunity, rather than help.

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» RE: Zionism is a concept, not a faith. Posted by: concerned Canadian
» RE: Zionism is a concept, not a faith. Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Zionism is a concept, not a faith. Posted by: Conservasaurus
» BUSHS GRANDFATHER THE NAZI Posted by: ignition
» antisemitism Posted by: AdamBaum
» RE: antisemitism Posted by: pierrot
» Fight Bigotry of Both Sides Posted by: coldeye
a 'seam line' indeed - oh yes
Posted by: concerned Canadian on Aug 1, 2006 8:11 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I was teaching English in a Saudi private school - Jeddah of all places, during 911 and saw firsthand the blatant propaganda directed at Jews for what? For being Jews.
And now this wall goes up and people are ghettoized for what? For being Palestinians, for being non-Jews. But Jews should know better - after all they have built museums to ensure that atrocities and unjust acts against HUMANITY must not be forgotten in order that such acts be ended through human discourse, and should it come to war then men would fight men. Jews should know about the use of cleansing words like calling such a wall a 'seam line'. Oh yes, a seam line indeed. And 'arbeit macht frei' as well? It seems that the propaganda artists of this group have learned well from their own past and are now using it to cleanse their present action. Great lessons from the past - let's isolate them, let's ultimately ostracize them, a wall that builds what in effect becomes a camp. Have Israeli power groups not had enough of ghettoes, camps, linguistic word play to cleanse evil actions? And walls? Oh yes, there was this little matter of the Berlin Wall. So again, a lesson from the past. If this is all that Israeli intelligence has to offer, well then keep right on goosestepping into a dark future.

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justgreenleaf
Posted by: justgreenleaf on Aug 1, 2006 8:46 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If only Chris Hedges actually knew something about history, he might write a credible article. Apparently he doesn't.
While the Israelis are not blame free in the current conflicts, can't anybody remember that those territories were "occupied" for very, very good reasons.
Terrorist attacks and suicide bombings against Israel were goin on LONG BEFORE Israel invaded and occupied any of the Arab lands--Lebanon, West Bank, Gaza, you name it.
Historical conflicts between nations go on for a long time, and are always messy and painful. Israel is not doing anything wrong, nor anything different from what every other modern nation has done at some time in their history.
For those of you care to think about it, consider this. When Colombus arrived in the New World, there were an estimated 20 million native Americans inhabiting the US continent. In the year 1900, there were approximately 2 million left. The Indian nations were destroyed by good old freedom loving Americans who wanted the land and the resources--no questions asked.
No modern nation-state was ever founded without a lot of blood shed in the fight to see who got the land. Everything that is happening in the Middle East, between Israel and her Arab neighbors, is EXACTLY according to historical precedent.
And if anything, Israel is a model of restraint in regard to her enemies.

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» RE: justgreenleaf Posted by: concerned Canadian
» RE: justgreenleaf Posted by: rhinojos
» RE: It's the other way round Posted by: pierrot
Israel has a right to offend itself
Posted by: marklar on Aug 1, 2006 9:51 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
By building an apartheid society for Palestinians to enjoy.
By invading Lebanon, a country with a democratic society far more advanced than its own in every way except militarily.
By bombing civilians in shelters, using white phosphoprous, cluster bombs, microwave weapons, all supplied of course by the U.S. taxpayer free of charge.
By emulating its premier abuser who was Nazi Germany, of course.

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» Merry Christmas Posted by: coldeye
» RE: Merry Christmas Posted by: pierrot
Where is the United Nations in all of this? Crimes against humanity?
Posted by: eastcoker on Aug 1, 2006 10:04 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why is this allowed to go on? Is Israel not accountable to international laws? These are horrible atrocities against humanity. Why is Israel being allowed to build this wall? Where is Kofi Annan?
Is Israel accountable to anybody?

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» I want it. Posted by: eastcoker
» Smiley Face Replies Posted by: coldeye
» It's not about oil Posted by: eastcoker
Complicated yet Simple issue
Posted by: JohnnyM on Aug 1, 2006 10:06 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
To say this is a very complicated political issue is an understatement. Too many players, too much history, and too much inbred hatred, on both sides. But, as with any issue, it comes down to people.

PEOPLE ARE PEOPLE
I am NOT anti-semetic (why they get a special word I'll never understand~!), I am not a racist towards any people; If you are kind, loving towards your fellow-humans, and not trying to take as much as you can from others, whether a white-collar (white-house) criminal or blue, then chances are we'd get along. But if you're greedy, a zionist trying to conquer the world, a member of a secret society of any kind, are caught up in materialism, etc then we would not get along. In fact, I'd like to rid the world of people like you! I am sure you'd say the same of us "tree-huggers." The problem in the world today is that the only people willing to run countries, fight through all the BS, are the criminal-minded - This is why all politicians are hated - they are criminals-at-heart...Even the democrats...So the Israeli government, the Hezbollah leaders, the white house, et al - they all have a criminal mind. Pathological. The only way the world can be saved is if we, the loving people, are willing to fight for it, ON OUR TERMS.

The fact that the Jews, who make up most of Israel, think they're a chosen people, gives them an arrogance that annoys us so-called pagans (Listen, no GOD would have a chosen people if ALL people are created in HIS image!!! If all men are created equal! - This is the fundamental flaw in the entire religious doctrines of Jews & Christians..it doesn't make sense). Clearly the entire Bible was written by Jews for Jews...After being born-again at 25 and spending 5 years studying the Bible (almost becoming a priest), I could not get over this flaw. So I have been re-reborn with a BIG GOD, the God of all Gods who loves all of us, even the terrorists, insurgents, democrats and EVEN the neo-cons! The Christian/Jewish God seems to pick and choose whom He loves, which isn't very God-like.

I know there are loving people on all sides of the current crisis, and I pray for them. Jews, Christians, Muslims. It is them who don't deserve this fight. For anyone on the hatred side of this issue, I couldn't give a shit. God can. I can't.

The so-called promised land, the one that the jewish God promised to His chosen people, the one that they currently occupy - Do you think a God would promise such a land but offer it's occupants no rest? No peace? It's one thing after another. Is this what your heaven will be like too? Sounds good on paper but in reality it's hell!! Or is this all contrived by the evil people in the world, who are on all sides, to keep us loving people afraid? Well, I am not afraid.

If want us to believe that you, the Jews, Muslims, etc, are truly believers in a GOD of Love, which both of your Gods are, then you must cease this hatred, cease the fire, and cease the radical beliefs. No God is radical. No doctrine from God could be radical. Stop misinterpreting what you read for your own benefit, and stop listening to the evil one's who do.

SO BE IT.

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» RE: Complicated yet Simple issue Posted by: AlienSlave
» GODS CHOOSEN PEOPLE? Posted by: ignition
Arab dictatorships: are they worse than Israeli-style democracy?
Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Aug 1, 2006 10:26 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Well... yes! That seems pretty obvious (in the absence of war and occupation, that is). So we'll also have to divest ourselves of all Saudi investment and academic contracts, etc. We'll have two parallel but disconnected student movements on campuses for economic divestment from Israel and Saudi Arabia. That should make for some good video footage for the networks.

This has the proverbial snowflake's chance in hell of success, but it is an interesting notion. It would mean shutting down or severely altering what looks like the world's largest financial conduit of oil and arms money, on top of disrupting the petrodollar recycling system.

By the by, Sun Tzu said "The people of Yin hate the people of Wu, and the people of Wu despise the people of Yin. Throw them in the same boat and they will work together like the left and right hands". His concern here was more about keeping an army together, but it's applicable to this problem.

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Did Mel Gibson write this?
Posted by: owlsliveintrees on Aug 1, 2006 10:38 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Only a true jew hating sicko would use words like "mortal"and "gash"in describing the ECONOMIC effects of a wall MEANT TO DETER SUICIDE BOMBERS. The fact that Chris Hedges used to work for the Times makes me sick to my stomach. Mortal and gash describe the wounds created when ball bearings fly into the torsos of babies, not what happens when a guy can't keep up the salary to maintain his 200,000 dollar house. You'd figure if you hated jews you'd try and keep it on the DL, rather than pander to Palestinian fetishists on Alternet. I wanna barf. I don't believe in hell, but if it does exist, there's a special place in hell for those who equate economic struggles with the deaths of innocents.

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» RE: Did Mel Gibson write this? Posted by: stevepasek
» RE: Did Mel Gibson write this? Posted by: owlsliveintrees
» RE: Did Mel Gibson write this? Posted by: stevepasek
» WORSE FOR KARL MARK Posted by: ignition
» There ARE Palestininan Israelis Posted by: stevepasek
» RE: There ARE Palestininan Israelis Posted by: owlsliveintrees
I guess Israel never does anything right...
Posted by: Spambolaya on Aug 1, 2006 11:02 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I guess I failed to hear any outcry when Hezbollah kidnapped Israeli soldiers and fired a missile on Haifa. And even as Israel was withdrawing from Gaza and the West Bank, suicide bombings continued. And just look at the outcry about building a wall--a wall for cryin' out loud--to keep out terrorists from an area where suicide bombings are common and the people elected Hamas, a terrorist organization, as their government.

How about this: Hezbollah gives back the kidnapped Israelis, (which had they done in the first place things would have been different), and then everyone stops the war, and the Hamas Palestinian government recognizes Israel's right to exist, and the suicide bombings stop, and the governments of Palestine and Israel discuss the borders?

And would someone please tell me what they think Israel SHOULD do to stop the suicide bombings and kidnappings and for the Arabs to recognize their right to exist? Please don't tell me that they should withdraw from the occupied territories, because obviously withdrawing doesn't help. Or is Israel NOT entitled to exist? Because that sure is what it sounds like all you people who protest your lack of anti-Semitism are saying.

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The Wall
Posted by: hotlipsin61 on Aug 1, 2006 12:01 PM   
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I am reminded of images from Pink Floyd's "The Wall" after reading this long piece. Someone should tear down that ugly slab of concrete.
What has Israel accomplished? Has that barrier kept the Palestinians out or walled Israel in?
One wall came down in Deutschland and another goes up in the Middle East. What a shame. With this wall lives were disrupted and the psychological damage is practically complete. This is Israel's wall of shame.
Perhaps we'll see Israelis wail at this wall in the future.

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» RE: The Wall Posted by: owlsliveintrees
» German Jews in Israel. Posted by: ignition
The root of most evil in the world...
Posted by: ShrubtheWarcriminal on Aug 1, 2006 12:12 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is just more evidence for the fact that the root of most evil in the world is…ORGANIZED RELIGION! Where on this earth are there atheists behaving as badly as the so called “religious?”

Hitler was a Catholic, etc. etc. and the beat goes on...

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More horrors
Posted by: Reader11722 on Aug 1, 2006 12:50 PM   
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Israel's attack on the USS Liberty and of course, the Lavon Affair. Let's not let the US off the hook. The US gov't passed the Patriot Act, detained protestors, tortures prisoners, bans books like "America Deceived", steals private lands, illegally wire-taps phones, and starts 2 wars based on lies and a false-flag attack known as 9/11.
Last link (before Google Books caves to pressure):
America Deceived - Book

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» RE: More horrors Posted by: ignition
It is like a death in the family.
Posted by: Sojourner on Aug 1, 2006 1:14 PM   
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The Palestinian situation has gotten worse ever since I first heard, as a child in 1948, of the open warfare. All I have heard since are the same old arguments by both sides, repeated as almost a mantra. Yes, it has been terrible, enough to make you hate everyone. Both sides have lost much, maybe too much. Maybe not.

The wall now changes the subject. Only time will tell whether there occurs some improvement. There's little satisfaction in a situation where the only possible virtue is that it can't get any worse. The wall may mean this is as bad as it will ever get.

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hISTORY REARS IT'S UGLY HEAD
Posted by: chanceny on Aug 1, 2006 2:28 PM   
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It seems that 'god', whatever that concept conjures up to you, whatever religious denomination you happen to have been born into, is always at the root of all violence, every atrocity, all ethnic cleansings, holocausts and wars. Noone seems to have learned FROM history although humans have more tools to get information and pass it along. The 'empire' vision that inspires the wet dreams of the neo-conartists is driving America's bloodthirsy foreign interventions . We have greatly succeeded at spreading hatred worldover by our callous and bigoted treatment of the entire Muslim populace. This corrupt cabal now representing America is not interested in differentiating sectarian alliances and legitimate claims that have historically formed the basis of the mindset of Muslim populations whose ancestors have occupied these lands for thousands of years. Their complete arrogant ignorance translates itself on the world stage accordingly, portraying us as the incarnation of the crusaders of old. We are heading toward doom by creating more vindictive enemies, bent on our destruction. Israel perpetrates crimes on Palestinians that they themselves were humiliated by at the hands of hate-fueled Nazis. They build walls and succeed at only sealing themselves behind them, shutting out the very precious meaning of life by denying liberty to themselves and to those other 'semites' they occupy at gunpoint. Here, the finally out-of-the-closet racists are now the occupiers of our country. They are free to call for building our very own wall, to secure our 'homeland' from yet another scapegoated brown skinned enemy, our most unfortunate Latino neighbors, who, at one time, actually themselves, occupied much of our America. All the world's digusting history, all the carnage, failed empires, armies of various gods that turned humans into monsters, is now repeating it's ugly cycle by the hands of Americans and Israelis. 'Never again', the buzz words for Jews to galvenize them to be ever vigilant and strong, means nothing if those words meant never again for only US only. Here we try to define our enemies as barbarians and treat them as such with our complete disregard for the 'collateral damage' we inflict. Now, we have become the true barbarians, defending torture and playing god by deciding who is 'with us or against us' in the holy war we wage by decree of madmen with weapons of mass destruction never before so lethal or readily deployable. I am destroyed on a personal level, being a Jew by birth, because I never could have imagined that Israel would degrade itself by committing acts of such inhumanity. I am equally distraught at the behaviour of my country, the ceding of power to a cabal of fraudelently religious zealots, fundamentalist agents of greed and corruption, amoral assholes bent only on serving themselves. History, if this period of time will ever be recorded in this nuclear age helmed by the worst among us, will tell our story and it will, yet again, be a tale of extreme caution, meant to teach future generations NOT TO REPEAT!

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» Paragraphs Please Posted by: coldeye
» I'm with coldeye Posted by: HeroesAll
This Week in God
Posted by: babs on Aug 1, 2006 3:11 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Did anyone see the item on Jon Stewart last night? About children and religious indoctrination. I was particularly nauseated by the item on Israeli children writing cute personal messages on bombs that were bound for Lebanon. One child wrote "To Lebanon, from Daniele". She should have added a little smiley face, or maybe she did.

The other two items concerned ultra violent Christian video games in America, and the propaganda exercises of Arab children. The Israeli item was the worst however.

Human civilization is finished - Bush thinks that he'll survive the final Holocaust - he's wrong. Nobody will survive it and the rats and cockroaches will inherit this lovely garden that we do not deserve. The earth will survive and recover - it always does, but the cancer that was humanity will be forever wiped out. And we have brought it upon ourselves and our children.

Live each day like it was your last (this is not rhetoric, I wish it was.) because it may well be the truth. The world is in flames - America wants to take pressure off its Iraq debacle, so it now has Israel doing its dirty work in Lebanon, hoping to draw Iran and Syria into the firestorm and bring about Armageddon.

Do these rapture mongers not realize that they are going to kill us all? That they too and their loved ones will die either quickly at ground zero or slowly and painfully from radiation sickness? And their "saviour" will be nowhere to be found.

A nuclear weapon will be used this time, I'm quite sure of it. It will probably be dropped directly on Tel Aviv. Do not discount the powerful alliance that has formed between North Korea, China, Iran, Syria and many others (while Bush was sleeping) - countries with nuclear capabilities. Countries that rightly do not trust America now, if any of them ever did.

The world will watch, horrified, as the deadly retaliation ramps up and every major city on the planet becomes a smoking, radioactive hole. People that aren't infected with radiation will die from thirst, starvation, exposure, and worse as utilities die, the internet dies, world banking is destroyed, the oceans are poisoned and guarded borders become puny artificial lines erased by mutual destruction.

America no longer holds the trump card. Sure, it can destroy the world several times over with it's arsenal of planet busting weapons, but it won't have the opportunity to send up more than a few birds before its strategic positions are hit with equal force from nations that are fed up with the infantile cowboy stance of the murderer-in-chief. Bush has ignored the world at America's peril - and he and the rest of the planet will pay for his betrayal with blood and misery.

And little George holds a photo op with the final 10 American Idols. Did he read "My Pet Goat" to them too? Nero had nothing on this guy. Bush doesn't care how history judges him, cause after him, there will be no history, nobody left to write it. No one government has done so much to bring about the end as this US administration has, with its bestest, newest sidekick, Israel. I am starting to believe that this is their final goal - the final solution, if I may. The hubris is horrifying.

Maybe the earth needs a clean start. Maybe Nature is tired of being our whore and wants us gone too. Maybe we'll oblige her. It is not outside the realm of possibility now that the odds of worldwide destruction are going up every minute.

Tom Degan urges us to pray for peace. This time we need to pray for survival - peace is no longer an option.

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The Palestinian "Warsaw Ghetto"
Posted by: sofla100 on Aug 1, 2006 3:27 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Wall we are told is to "deter suicide bombers." But, will it deter Isareli missles fired for "targeted assasination?" Will it deter bulldozers sent for demolition of the homes of "suspected" terrorists or those who symphatize with the Palestinian cause? While on one side of the wall, a few Israeli's live in air conditioned homes while on the other side, it's squalor and horror. The "other side of the wall" is the Palestine equivalent of the Warsaw Ghetto. A few Palestinians can ocassionally sneak out, others are subject to the Isareli plan and ultimate program for the Palestinians. What is the Program Israeli? Will it be slow death for the Palestinian people or will it come quickly?

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So much ignorance, so much hatred
Posted by: HeroesAll on Aug 1, 2006 3:37 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A few points:

- Palestinians, like Lebanese, are not uniformly Muslim. There are many Christians in both countries.

- There are terrorists on both sides of the conflict. Both sides kill innocents, sometimes in retaliation for what they see as terrorist atrocities. This is another stone in the mountain of evidence that violence doesn't fix anything.

- The knowledge of the history of the region is woeful. Some of you should actually read about what has happened in the formation Israel and during the 'peace process'. Read something from an unbiased source, because there's propaganda on both sides. Because of our own nations' preferences, we get mostly the Israeli propaganda, but that's not to say that Palestinian propaganda doesn't exist.

- Many people don't understand the facts of the ground, not on the ground. Look at some maps to get an idea of what all these land and wall issues really mean. There's a series of maps at Palestine Maps which go into the history. I especially recommend these: Palestine under the British mandate 1923 - 1948, UN partition plan-UN resolution 181/Rhodes armistice line, Oslo II 1995, The Gaza strip, year 2000, The West Bank and Gaza Strip 2000, Final status map presented by Israel, Taba January 2001, and The wall in the West Bank and Jerusalem. If you can't be bothered looking at the actual situation, then you have no right to pretend you know anything.

- Judaism is a religion, Zionism is a political movement. Get this through your heads, please. Anyone who wails about anti-semitism when Zionists are being discussed deserves a good slap. And if you overuse the word, it will cease to have any meaning.

- Similarly, the Israeli government is the government of a country, and hence may be criticised without shrieks of outrage. Please, get over this.

- Before the formation of Israel, the Jews in the region were Sephardic (spelling?). The Jews who migrated there from Europe, Russia, and elsewhere, are Ashkenazi. The terms mean basically Palestinian (local Middle Eastern) Jews and European Jews, who spring from some Europeans converted some hundreds of years ago. The Sephardic Jews are also treated as second-class citizens in Israel, although not quite as badly as the Arabs.

- Israel supporters justify their violence on the grounds of defending against Palestinian attacks, Palestinian supporters justify their violence on the grounds of retaliating for Israeli attacks and trying to draw the world's attention to their situation. It's a vicious circle, and violence won't work.

- For those who think that all the denial of sovereignty is directed against the Israelis, here's some quotes from a few Israeli leaders about Palestine. Read them.

- Yes, the other Arab countries in the region have used the Palestinian problem to distract their own citizens' attention from their own governmental problems. This is unfair, but it's not the fault of the Palestinians. And all people should be concerned about resolving this issue, not just those who live in the area.

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» RE: So much ignorance, so much hatred Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: So much ignorance, so much hatred Posted by: Conservasaurus
Globalization and the Palestinians
Posted by: yellow on Aug 1, 2006 5:02 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Reading the blog by Chris Hedges confirmed what I have thought about the role of the wall in the ongoing Israeli Occupation of Palestine for a long time. Last year I published an article in which I referred to the wall as part of an enclosure movement, 17th Century English style, against the viability of rural and small town Palestinian life. This only makes real sense if one can think of the Oslo Peace Process as tantamount to a global stage of Israeli Capitalism. Report after report has detailed the extent to which Palestinian farming, small manufactures in shops of less than 10 employees, small retail businesses, and some professional and technical workers has all become unviable due to the obstruction of the wall which has separated workers from access to land, markets, jobs, suppliers, clients, and business associates. The independant Palestinian economy, which was based on very small producers, is being rapidly eroded as people like farmers, workers, and business people (like the auto parts salesman in the blog) are put out of business and proletarianized ie. force to work for others as they lose their assets and economic independance.

This is how Israel plans to make of the Palestinian Bantustans a dependant manufacturing base which will employ impoverished Palestinians in various manufacturing sectors in plants built with World Bank donor money and owned or leased by foreign capital. The products, consumer electronics, assembled garments, pharmacuticals, and processed food and beverages will be sold on the Israeli market as well as markets in Europe and the US under the terms enjoyed by Israel through existing bilateral trade agreements with Israeli value added included!

In 1998, PIEFZA (the Palestinian Industrial Estate Free Zone Administration) came about with World Bank and Saudi funding. They fund the building of industrial estates for factories who have a productive advantage through the efficiencies of clustering. Foreign businesses establish manufacturing with incentives offered by PIEFZA including low wages paid in the OPT and export the goods competitively in foreign markets. Those who can no longer survive economically will leave Palestine. A small working class will remain in the territories with small ancilliary class to provide services and the PA will become the mew corrupt political class that will get rich buying into these businesses, selling liscenses and permits, and administering the Bantustans for Israel and global investers as a labor reserve. They will cooperate with the US/Israeli Axis because they are now part of the Transnational Bourgeouisie with a political interest in the arrangement. The Palestinian issue is now a class issue. This whole arrangement could be undone by political obstruction of trade with Israel/Palestine over human rights and sovereignty issues. This is why there is a rush to resolve the final status aggreements within the context of the wall in Israel's favor. This is also why Hamas is seen as the threat that it is seem as by both the Israelis and their PA functionaries.

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Israel's wall of horrors
Posted by: sidewinder on Aug 1, 2006 6:26 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
By writing this article the author, despite his background, reveals his ignorance of the situation. Of course, the term, "New York Times", itself, is revealing.

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» NY Times back to Yellow Press Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: NY Times back to Yellow Press Posted by: Conservasaurus
Until the last sentence
Posted by: fibrowitch on Aug 1, 2006 6:38 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I read this article with growing pain about how horrid this occupation has been for both groups of people. The stories from people touched by the violence, and trying to prevent more. At least I was until I got to the end of the article.
When the farmer began to tell his horror story of how the Israelis threatened him and his wife, and how he suggested they had raped his wife. That is when I read this sentence.

"This happened on Aug. 3," he begins again. "I have not been allowed to cross since. They slam the gate shut in my face. My crop is dying." The tears roll down his cheeks. They too are serpent's teeth"

I went to double check my calendar, today is August 1st. The article was posted today, August first. This could be explained via several reasons, either this article is at least eleven months old, the Palestinians use a calendar that is at least a week ahead of ours, the man has no idea what day of the week it is.

There are other possibilities, the author really meant to say July 3rd, and neither he or his editor noticed the glaring error. Or this story is untrue. Which leads me to question the remaining stories in the article, and the article itself. How true, how honest could this article be, with this glairing error.

I also know that I find myself questioning Chris Hedges.

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» RE: Until the last sentence Posted by: yellow
Israel Has Activists/Diplomats Tracking Chatrooms and Websites
Posted by: Crimsonwolf23 on Aug 1, 2006 7:43 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Israel’s Government Foreign Ministry has ordered trainee diplomats to track
websites and chatrooms so that networks of US and European groups with
hundreds of thousands of Jewish activists can place supportive messages.

In the past week nearly 5,000 members of the World Union of Jewish Students
(WUJS) have downloaded special “megaphone” software that alerts them to
anti-Israeli chatrooms or internet polls to enable them to post contrary
viewpoints. A student team in Jerusalem combs the web in a host of different
languages to flag the sites so that those who have signed up can influence
an opinion survey or the course of a debate.

Read all about it:
"Israel backed by army of cyber-soldiers" www.timesonline.co.uk

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Thank you Chris. You gave us hope to feel like human beings again.
Posted by: humanity101 on Aug 1, 2006 9:44 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is very important to hear this voice of conscience that has been lost in America. Every tax dollar I've paid contributes to this oppression and humiliation of the Palestinians. That makes me feel so sick in my stomach. It is a hopeless situation and there is nothing a conscientious American can do. We can only weep inside watching them suffer at the hands of the ruthless Israelis. This article gives us some hope by reminding us we can be good human beings again.

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I am losing my patience very rapidly
Posted by: ILECTURECPAS on Aug 2, 2006 9:13 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The following is a copy of an email that I just received. I think that it explains it all.

=====================================
Hello friends,

Here's what you should do if you get into a conversation in which one of those pretentious idiots who think that Israel's response to the terror attacks is too strong, and that we shouldn't react so strongly as revenge:



1. Ask him if a military response is acceptable.

2. When he says "No", ask "Why not?"

3. Wait until he says something like "...because it will result in the death of more innocent people, which is a terrible thing...and bring more violence and escalate the current situation..."

4. When he's halfway through what he has to say, punch him in the face.

5. When he tries to hit you back, get his attention and explain to him that by doing so he'll be making a huge mistake, and that hitting back is against everything he believes in, because it will bring more violence and escalate the current situation.

6. Wait until he agrees to this argument, and agrees not to react in violence.

7. Punch him again, only stronger this time.

8. Repeat steps 5 through 7 until he understands that sometimes you need to hit back.

Please pass this on to all your friends in foreign countries, maybe this will help them understand things better!

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Am I Alone In Thinking...
Posted by: BAKslider on Aug 2, 2006 9:25 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This may sound anti-semitic. After all, I have little ground to stand on - I'm only Jewish on my mother's side :)

Could it be that the core issue in Israel is not political but theological? Am I the only person in the world who doesn't believe that the God Of The Universe gave Israel to the Jews? Am I the only person who views virgin births, verbose burning bushes and the other foundations of Judeo/Christian theology as a bunch of bull?

I have no problems with folks gullible enough to believe in virgin births, talking donkeys and bushes and all the other imaginary crap in the Bible. The problem I have is when they use this faith system as a reason for killing and dominating the world. In a nutshell I don't have anything against the Jewish faith - its Zionism that gets my craw.

The typical argument for supporting Israel with billions in aid and weaponry every year is that they are the only stable democracy in the Middle East. Current events challenge that theory.

If indeed the Jews are God's chosen, why can't God protect and support them? Why do we have to use my agnostic tax dollars to uphold this thorn in the side of Middle Eastern peace?

It may be PC to be polite to people of faith but I expect, nay, demand reciprocation. And I ain't getting any.

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» Mel, aren't you in Rehab? Posted by: coldeye
» There you go again! Posted by: ignition
The new Nazis
Posted by: Jersey Devil on Aug 3, 2006 5:07 PM   
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Well the Zionists certainly learned a lot during WW2 and now they are doing to the Palestinians what Hitler did to them. The old testament has many stories of God's punishment of the Jews when they forsook their God as they are doing now by stealing, murdering, and torturing their Semite brothers. God inflicted his wrath on the Jews in the past and will punish them again. Abraham must be spinning in his tomb.

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» RE: The new Nazis--absurd Posted by: Burton
» RE: The new Nazis Posted by: coldeye
Mrs. Nuhayla Auynaf neighbors
Posted by: Burton on Aug 5, 2006 12:27 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If Mrs. Nuhayla Auynaf and her neighbors want to get rid of the wall, then let them stop their terrorism. It's that simple. The Palestinian people have elected to use terrorism as a weapon and now they are paying the price for it.

They could engage in civil disobedience, or non-violent resistance, or even legitimate guerrilla warfare (against military targets). But you have to ask if Mrs. Nuhayla Auynaf supports the murder of people like Leon Klinghoefer, the American tourist who was murdered by the Palestinian people on the Achille Lauro back in 1985.

http://www.specialoperations.com/
Images_Folder/library2/achille.html

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» Dust off the placards Posted by: coldeye
» RE: Dust off the placards Posted by: pierrot
» RE: Dust off the placards Posted by: pierrot