COMMENTS: 203
Dead Dem Walking
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The night was Oct. 5, 2000. The night the Democrats lost the 2000 election. The night that every Democratic fault of the last 20 years -- timidity, naiveté, chumminess with power, lack of emotion and policy wonkishness -- was on full view. The night when Joe Lieberman betrayed his party and his country by choosing to protect his self-image as a gentlemanly politician, instead of warning America that the man sitting across the table was a dangerous and unprincipled man. The night when Dick Cheney and Joe Lieberman had their one and only prime-time debate for vice president of the United States.
Joe Lieberman knew. It was the only night that Americans were going to see, hear or learn about Dick Cheney. And while Dick Cheney had a long career in Washington -- 11 years in Congress, secretary of defense for the first President Bush and chief of staff for Gerald Ford -- to the man on the street he was a blank page.
Joe Lieberman knew. Anyone who was anyone in Washington knew. There was a long record of controversial votes, private sector decisions, and neocon policy papers from which Joe could have chosen. During the first Bush administration, Cheney and his neocon gang were even known as "the crazies" around the Beltway. We have now seen the results.
Joe Lieberman knew. It has always been the traditional role of the vice presidential candidate to wield the hatchet and keep the presidential candidate above the fray. It was Joe's job to go for the jugular -- especially in light of Dick Cheney's' cleverly constructed persona as the grandfatherly, unassumingly reasonable old man. Dick's low-key style concealed a ruthless, uncompromising, hard-edged conservative. It was absolutely essential to Gore, the campaign and viewers at home that Joe stand on his chair and shout to the rafters that Dick Cheney was a dangerous man.
But Joe was only thinking about Joe. And nothing is more important to Joe than to show the world what a reasonable, mature, thoughtful and gentlemanly politician he is.
Revisiting that night is to relive a left-of-center political nightmare. The press was in major sucker mode and celebrated the "civilized" proceedings. AP characterized the night as a "gentlemanly debate of campaign understudies." Jack Tapper at Salon.com said "two candidates show their younger bosses how to keep it clean." The San Francisco Chronicle called the debate a "civil and cerebral conversation." Translation -- total victory for the Bush campaign and not even a paper cut for Dick Cheney. Thanks, Joe.
It's not surprising that Joe Lieberman has been defended of late by David Brooks of the New York Times. In a recent column on the "liberal inquisition" of Joe Lieberman, David describes Joe as a "heterodox politician who distrusts ideological purity, who rebels against movement groupthink, who believes in bipartisanship both as a matter of principle and as a practical necessity."
But I have a different categorization for David and his pal Joe. They are not "heterodox" -- they are "rational elitists." A "rational elitist" revels in the gray area and the long view, sees both sides of virtually every issue, never gets angry enough to "blow his or her top," hates shouting and recognizes, as the mature and wise fellows they know they are, that compromise and slow change are the realities of the world. They are "elitists" because their acute self-knowledge, wise and thoughtful ways allow them to continually look down on those of us who just can't seem to control our anger and frustration at the injustice, greed and moral compromises we see around us.
Twenty million working poor? David says the economy is doing just fine, thank you. Wal-Mart? While I may fume every time I think of the five $20 billion Walton heirs walking past an employee with no health insurance, a "rational elitist" like David Brooks sees a booming business and marvels at all of the good products Wal-Mart sells. Forty million uninsured? Heck, in the Middle Ages no one had health insurance. So Joe Lieberman finds a way to cozy up to the big pharmaceutical companies.
Rational elitists are never poor, so they can take the long view because they have health insurance, good paying jobs and probably don't have many personal friends dying in Iraq. It is not their life that is being destroyed. Of course, compromise is necessary and things take time to change, but just as every conspiracy theorist sees the world through a prism of paranoia, the rational elitist is pathologically committed to the finding the middle ground, the bipartisan approach and the long view.
So Joe doesn't see the corruption of his Washington political bedfellows and institutions. When he looks around the Senate chamber he sees a roomful of reasonable men, making reasonable compromises in an imperfect world. It is no coincidence that one of the rare times Joe did actually get all "hot-and-bothered" was not over stem cell research, earmarks, campaign-finance reform or the minimum wage -- it was Bill Clinton's sexual escapades. It makes perfect sense really -- because Bill was giving Democratic politicians a less than holy image -- and self-image comes first and foremost to Joe. For Joe, being the gentleman trumps all.
So on that fateful night in October, when debate host Bernard Shaw asked about racial profiling, Joe could have used his time to talk about the Republican Party's long history of capitalizing on racism and Dick Cheney's horrendous Congressional record on race -- from his characterizing Nelson Mandela and the ANC as a terrorist organization to his vote against a holiday for Martin Luther King.
When Bernard Shaw asked about public education, Joe could have reminded the public Dick Cheney voted against creating the Department of Education and Head Start. When asked about the American working woman, Joe could have reminded viewers Dick voted against the Equal Rights Amendment, and when asked about the RU-486 drug, Joe could have reminded viewers Dick Cheney was so extreme on abortion he even opposed federal funding for abortions in the case of rape and incest! But not our Joe.
It went on and on. He let Dick off the hook on the environment by failing to mention Cheney opposed the refunding of the Clean Water Act. Joe's only comments about Halliburton was about Dick's salary, and nothing was said about Cheney's Congressional vote against legislation requiring birth defects caused by oil and chemical companies be placed in the public record. The "well" that Joe could have drawn from was very, very deep. The public heard none of it. At one point in the debate, our "rational elitist" recites a long list of Republicans he has worked with over the years, ending with the prophetic "If I go on much longer, I'm going to get in trouble with my own party".
Here is David Brooks recently on Joe Lieberman -- "Whether you agree with him or not, he is transparently the most kind-hearted and well-intentioned of men." Here is Joe Lieberman on Dick Cheney on Oct. 5, 2000 -- "I have great respect for Dick Cheney. I don't agree with a lot of things he said in this campaign, but I have great respect for him. He was a distinguished secretary of defense. And I don't have anything negative to say about him."
Rational elitists just don't get it. For those fawning words alone Joe, you just gotta go.
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Posted by: DataDoc on Jul 26, 2006 11:14 PM
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He not only voted for the war, he gave patriotic defenses of the war, telling us how important it is to bankrupt this country. Many democrats follow his lead now, and support the war, whatever the cost. Not only Republicans, but now some Democrats want to build a fence along the border with Mexico, pushing up the deficit. And Democrats can even swing around and support abortion restrictions now. Look at our great Democratic party, and how little they reflect the American worker that built the party. They're the lapdog of big business, and they can get away with it, because self-proclaimed leaders like Vice-Presidential nominee Lieberman encourage that behavior with Republican-lite speeches. And when it all comes crashing down (the national debt, I mean), then Lieberman's cronies will provide him with a golden parachute.
This guy is the leader of the neo-con-men Democrats, and when he goes, the party will feel a great weight lifted!
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» RE: Lieberman stinks - that's why Gore lost!
Posted by: adp3d
» Gore lost because of Gore
Posted by: jlohman
» Au Contraire the election was stolen
Posted by: jwg
» RE: Au Contraire the election was stolen
Posted by: willymack
» RE: Lieberman stinks - that's why Gore lost!
Posted by: madmac10
» RE: Lieberman stinks - that's why Gore lost!
Posted by: Jamboree
» Oh yeah, a party of Dennis Kucinich? whose idea was that? Karl Rove?
Posted by: coldeye
» RE: Oh yeah, a party of Dennis Kucinich? whose idea was that? Karl Rove?
Posted by: ReallyBearish
» RE: Oh yeah, a party of Dennis Kucinich? whose idea was that? Karl Rove?
Posted by: SpankyDaWheel
» RE: Oh yeah, a party of Dennis Kucinich? whose idea was that? Karl Rove?
Posted by: Kitty Lady Oregon
» RE: Oh yeah, a party of Dennis Kucinich? whose idea was that? Karl Rove?
Posted by: Basenjis
» RE: cldeye, the record of centrists isn't good
Posted by: Jesse
» RE: Lieberman stinks - that's why Gore lost!
Posted by: Thundergod
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Bobsays on Jul 26, 2006 11:59 PM
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He always comes across as a slime bag. The Democrats, if they have a hope in hell, need some credible candidates. Gore so far is the only one.
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» RE: Lieberman's strings pulled by Israeli puppet masters
Posted by: thinkprogress
» RE: Lieberman's strings pulled by Israeli puppet masters
Posted by: jimlup
» RE: Help! the Jews Made Me Do It!
Posted by: Bobsays
» RE: Help! the Jews Made Me Do It!
Posted by: coldeye
» Now you're making some sense
Posted by: WhuThe?!?
» RE: Lieberman's strings pulled by Israeli puppet masters
Posted by: Jamboree
» RE: Lieberman's strings pulled by Israeli puppet masters
Posted by: rwa
» RE: Lieberman's strings pulled by Israeli puppet masters
Posted by: WhuThe?!?
» Absolutely! Israeli's interests above USs'
Posted by: humanity101
» Let's call time on this minority's guilt game
Posted by: Bobsays
Comments are closed-
Posted by: rsaxto on Jul 27, 2006 3:40 AM
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» Have You Reported These Crimes, Mr. International Citizen?
Posted by: coldeye
» Well, hey, if everybody else is committing war crimes and
Posted by: WhuThe?!?
» RE: Well, hey, if everybody else is committing war crimes and
Posted by: Basenjis
» RE: Have You Reported These Crimes, Mr. International Citizen?
Posted by: Wacre
» Go Ahead, lump them all together
Posted by: Vani
» Just Who Are You Disagreeing With?
Posted by: coldeye
Comments are closed-
Posted by: coldeye on Jul 27, 2006 4:04 AM
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Joe's record on Iraq, for which Wall St rich guy Lamont is so upset, is no worse than Kerry or Hilary. I somehow missed the bolt of the left wing from the Democratic Party when Salutin, I'm a Vet Kerry "reported for duty" like a tin soldier in Boston in 04.
If you are for pro-public health and labor programs, and for an intelligent, practical approach to global climate change, you will support Joe Lieberman. If he does disagree with you, he will not call you a fascist or a Commie. I cannot explain this human failing of his to be respectful of all people and not to name call. Nevertheless, he deserves re-election.
If you are against all Demcrats, and are working to create a democratic socialist party, then I have more respect for you if you oppose Joe. But that is not what Ned Lamont, scion of the Corliss Lamont-Vanderbilt fortune is about.
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» Lieberman is not the right man for this job
Posted by: Bobsays
» Forget About Hilary
Posted by: Vani
» RE: Joe Lieberman is an Outstanding Public Servant
Posted by: shinseiji
» RE: Joe Lieberman is an Outstanding Public Servant
Posted by: valc
» RE: Joe Lieberman is an Outstanding Public Servant
Posted by: Jamboree
» RE: Joe Lieberman is an Outstanding Public Servant.........the kiss...
Posted by: picket
» Here here!
Posted by: Vani
» RE: Joe Lieberman is an Outstanding Public Servant
Posted by: brunowe
» RE: Joe Lieberman is an Outstanding Public Servant -- So??
Posted by: Jesse
» Jesse, Take A Hike
Posted by: coldeye
» RE: Jesse, Take A Hike
Posted by: Jesse
» RE: Do u work for Alternet w/the purpose to stir up dog doo?
Posted by: marklar
» Uh...Joe's record on Iraq is much, much worse than Kerry's
Posted by: WhuThe?!?
» Wrong!
Posted by: Thundergod
» Thank you
Posted by: Capybara
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Tom Degan on Jul 27, 2006 4:09 AM
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Our only hope is that his presence on the ticket will split the vote - the republican vote! Based on his past voting record, that is a very likely scenerio. He's pathetic.
Tom Degan
Goshen, NY
The Daily Rant
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» RE: LIEberman
Posted by: coldeye
» Leiberman is the test for us in this country!!!! He must not be reelected if we, the People, ...
Posted by: Pepper
» RE: Leiberman is the test for us in this country!!!! He must not be reelected if we, the People, .
Posted by: Jamboree
» Frying German citizens is OK but making a mistake on Iraq isn't?
Posted by: coldeye
» Coldeye - Deliberate misunderstanding?
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» Roosevelt a fascist?
Posted by: Swatopluk
» RE: oosevelt a fascist?
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» How dare you compare Iraq to Nazi Germany
Posted by: Vani
» RE: LIEberman
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: LIEberman
Posted by: xbj
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Uncle Tupelo on Jul 27, 2006 4:50 AM
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» RE: Don't worry about the R vote
Posted by: Thundergod
Comments are closed-
Posted by: marklar on Jul 27, 2006 5:14 AM
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» RE: Lieberman and Zell Miller: Repubtards posing as Democrats
Posted by: shinseiji
» I think its both........ they are acting the same, committing the same atrocities......
Posted by: Pepper
» RE: I think its both........ they are acting the same, committing the same atrocities......
Posted by: marklar
» RE: Lieberman and Zell Miller: Repubtards posing as Democrats
Posted by: shinseiji
» Lieberman and Miller had totally different voting records
Posted by: coldeye
» RE: An answer to you question
Posted by: marklar
» RE: Lieberman and Zell Miller: Repubtards posing as Democrats
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: Lieberman and Zell Miller: Repubtards posing as Democrats
Posted by: marklar
» RE: Lieberman and Zell Miller: Repubtards posing as Democrats
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» That is why I say now "VOTE OUT ALL INCUMBANTS REGARDLESS OF PARTY"!
Posted by: Pepper
» Well said! It is time to form a grassroot movement to counter AIPAC.
Posted by: humanity101
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Posted by: ArchiesBoy on Jul 27, 2006 5:34 AM
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Gore lost because Bill Clinton couldn't keep his pants zipped around Monica Lewinsky. And the stink of that galvanized the Republican Party and the Religous Right like a hive of killer bees. It was the perfect gift. Clinton GAVE them his OWN DEFEAT. (It takes an intelligent person to make a REALLY stupid mistake.) And the stink of it got all over Gore. He was forever associated with the Clinton Administration and that's why he lost. Joe didn't help anything, but he wasn't the reason Gore lost, it was Clinton's STUPID sexual activity. He disgraced himself, his family, the Presidency, the Democratic Party, the American People, and the United States. And I will NEVER forgive him for it. His sexual idiocy set the stage and buttered the skids for George W. Bush and his incipient dictatorship.
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» RE: Why Gore Lost
Posted by: domenico234
» RE: Why Gore Lost
Posted by: kmeyer
» RE: Why Gore Lost
Posted by: ElectronRunes
» RE: and the other reason Why Gore Lost
Posted by: Polly
» RE: Why Gore Lost, not because of Clinton
Posted by: rwa
» At least Clinton's sex was somewhat normal, thats more than I can say for the neocon.....
Posted by: Pepper
» Gore lost because Lieberman is jewish
Posted by: psychochurch
» RE: Gore lost because of the l-o-c-k-b-o-x
Posted by: coldeye
» LOL, well that explains why you didn't vote for him..... hahahaha
Posted by: Pepper
» How is that possible?
Posted by: chief of okeefe
» RE: Why Gore Lost
Posted by: Thundergod
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Posted by: 3reddogs on Jul 27, 2006 6:13 AM
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Posted by: Lincoln fan on Jul 27, 2006 6:19 AM
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The establishment allows the Democrats to be the "loyal opposition" and "the lesser of the evils", up to a point. But they're still on the leash. When the majority of voters realize that the Republicans are evil the Democrats will win. Then we'll get back a little of what the Republicans stole.
At every election the public is told to ask, "am I better off now than four (or eight) years ago?". This is the wrong question. A better question is, "Who runs the government: the voters or the corporatocracy?".
I believe that if we look at the results; the lack of affordable healthcare, the state of public education, the exportation of jobs, the fights to kill the unions and social security, etc., we will find that the corporate dollars trump our votes. Both political parties are controlled by big business.
The corporatocracy wasn't elected and we can't vote them out. The only effective strategy is to take control of the platforms of both parties. We could do this before the next election with a strong grassroots movement.
Join The Lincoln Inititive today. Make "government of the people, by the people, and for the people" a reality. Click on URGENT
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Posted by: xbj on Jul 27, 2006 6:36 AM
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Oops, sorry, that's Prime Minister.
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» RE: JOE LIEBERMAN FOR PRIUME MINISTER OF ISRAEL!!!
Posted by: para-dice
» RE: JOE LIEBERMAN FOR PRESIDENT OF ISRAEL
Posted by: rwa
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Posted by: i.R.i on Jul 27, 2006 6:41 AM
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» RE: I'll Take Joe and Trade You an Arlen
Posted by: ElectronRunes
» W's Decline?
Posted by: i.R.i
» RE: W's Decline?
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: I'll Take Joe and Trade You an Arlen
Posted by: veive
» RE: I'll Take Joe and Trade You an Arlen
Posted by: I.RIGHT.I
» RE: I'll Take Joe and Trade You an Arlen
Posted by: veive
» RE: IRI is a Troll. His posts make no sense. They are just vitriol bombs tossed out there to make
Posted by: doinaheckuvajob
» RE: I'll Take Joe and Trade You an Arlen
Posted by: Ian B.
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Posted by: i.R.i on Jul 27, 2006 7:05 AM
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» RE: Gore Lost, LOL
Posted by: jimb
» Gore won a majority of the votes-- that is not losing
Posted by: chief of okeefe
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Posted by: CTvoter on Jul 27, 2006 7:15 AM
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The best argument against Joe is that if he DOES run as an independent, it will be the Repubs that re-elect him. Joe does NOT represent the voters of CT. A vote against Joe is not necessarily a vote for Lamont, either.
A vote against Joe is merely a signal that the average voter is sick and tired of having two Repubs to choose from. Joe is only the canary in the coal mine, and if the rest of his cronies don't take heed, they will all be back working for large corporations, where they should be. But not on our payroll, and not handing the country over to Halliburton, AT&T, et al.
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» A vote against Joe is merely a signal that the average voter is sick and tired of having two Repubs
Posted by: Lincoln fan
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Posted by: dikaiosyne on Jul 27, 2006 7:30 AM
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» RE: easonable Joe
Posted by: lively56
» RE: reasonable Joe
Posted by: Ian B.
» RE: Why would we take advice from Right wing Trolls? Troll advice is as useful as Joe Lieerman's
Posted by: doinaheckuvajob
» NO the war in Iraq must end in defeat
Posted by: chief of okeefe
» RE: uneasonable Joe
Posted by: Thundergod
» Stop Republican Pedophilia! (was: RE: Reasonable Joe)
Posted by: wli
» Republicans Love Joe
Posted by: DataDoc
Comments are closed-
Posted by: VannaLaRoche on Jul 27, 2006 8:16 AM
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» RE: Israeli citizenship
Posted by: coldeye
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Posted by: Iconoclast421 on Jul 27, 2006 8:15 AM
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It's exactly the kind of insanity that occured right after 9/11. What did I miss? Did another round of anthrax letters go to democratic senators? Or is the Israeli lobby just that powerful?
It's easy for someone like Lamont to say they'd do what's right and not just what everyone else does to please Israel or the neocons. But had Lamont been in Lieberman's position, I bet he would have gone along just like Lieberman. That's the funny thing.
Of course, Lamont, like any sane person would admit that it was a mistake. But how can that be enough? What good does it do to admit you were wrong after all the damage is done. Especially when Israel is attempting to do exactly the same thing we did when we invaded Iraq. It's the same thing. And the damn congress acts the same way. They vote almost unanimously in favor of it. Despite Iraq.
So what now? Is it going to take 3 years and 200,000 dead Lebanese for these bastards to come around on Israel? Hell, we'll be into Iran by then. This is disgusting. What will it take to make people stop being so naive?
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» RE: It goes way beyond Joe
Posted by: rinpochet
» RE: It goes way beyond Joe
Posted by: ghoster
» US Jews Need to Take a Time Out From Israel
Posted by: coldeye
» RE: US Jews Need to Take a Time Out From Israel
Posted by: mythbuster
» Answer to your question: What will it take ...... VOTE OUT ALL INCUMBANTS REGARDLESS OF PARTY!
Posted by: Pepper
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Posted by: rwa on Jul 27, 2006 9:23 AM
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"And in the general hardening of outlook that set in . . . practices which had been long abandoned - imprisonment without trial, the use of war prisoners as slaves, public executions, torture to extract confessions . . . and the deportation of whole populations - not only became common again, but were tolerated and even defended by people who considered themselves enlightened and progressive."
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» RE: Lieberman for BIG BROTHER
Posted by: Thundergod
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Posted by: jimb on Jul 27, 2006 9:33 AM
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All you need to know about Joe is demonstrated by the extent to which Republicans (and Republicans claiming to be posting as Democrats) will go to defend and promote him. They want him bad.
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Posted by: psychochurch on Jul 27, 2006 9:45 AM
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Posted by: brunowe on Jul 27, 2006 9:58 AM
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» RE: asmussen has Lamont ahead
Posted by: mythbuster
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Posted by: scearfo on Jul 27, 2006 10:05 AM
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Posted by: ShrubtheWarcriminal on Jul 27, 2006 10:06 AM
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Someone needs to start a third party, a true progressive party. If one was founded I predict a mass exodus from the Deomocrapic party I now despise almost as much as the Repukes.
To the Democraps--I will not give one more dime to you until I am confident that election fraud is at a bare minimum. Until you can do so, all else you try to accomplish is moot and I refuse to waste my hard earned money on you like I did in the last two elections.
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» RE: Dems will keep loosing because they're idiots. Republicans control the zeros and ones.
Posted by: humanity101
» Kick the phoney repub out of the dem party...
Posted by: Thundergod
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Posted by: WhuThe?!? on Jul 27, 2006 10:53 AM
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» Bill and Hill are smearing Vick's Salve on the leg to be amputated.
Posted by: CovertRage
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Posted by: marklar on Jul 27, 2006 11:15 AM
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joes not just a loser (the Israel lobby forced Gore to choose Joe)
Good satire.
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Posted by: galen on Jul 27, 2006 11:54 AM
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Joe Lieberman has become old, has mutated and cancerous. His organism, the Democratic Party, is badly infected, and its largest metastasis, the DLC is now in charge. The DLC is a very clever mutation, as most cancerous tumors are, and it prolifically produces quantities of little metastases, which may for all the world look like normal cells. (Bill, Hillary and Obama are all currently suspected deviant cells!) Unless, and until, that is, one observes what they do as they invade and take root in other vital organs of the organism. I fear the prognosis is grim, for the entire organism is corrupted and rotten.
Yes, Joe has stayed, literally, too long at the party. The chemotherapy required to extinguish him and the other metastases will likely destroy the entire organism. And if the chemo does not kill the body, it may euthanize itself out of its own intense pain, knowing that it is steadilly wasting away from within, and can no longer compete as a functional organism. Regardless, left to its own devices, it will die a slow, miserable death.
It is natural selection, gradual maybe, but certain. Nature, like politics, has a way of eliminating the dysfunctional. Ultimately, the strong, healthy and adaptable will survive.
Life is abundant, prolific, and progressive. New and better organisms spring forth all the time. I'm hoping to become a functional, healthy cell within one such emerging organism.
Sleep with the fishes, Joe, into eternity with the body you unwittingly helped destroy!
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» RE: Joe is waiting for his buddy Saddam Hussein.
Posted by: humanity101
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Posted by: larry278 on Jul 27, 2006 12:11 PM
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» RE: epoop/Democrap
Posted by: Thundergod
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Posted by: hotlipsin61 on Jul 27, 2006 12:46 PM
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We blew it when Al Gore chose this dummkopf Joseph Lieberman to be his running mate, and we've seen what a disastrous choice that was for the Donkey party.
I remember watching that debate and Lieberman blew his chances to expose Cheney for what kind of predator he is.
Since then the Donkeys have been in a full-scale retreat from the American political scene who have offered feeble resistance to the Elephants.
Lieberman blindly supprted the "war" ON Iraq and he hasn't made much noise on the political map. (But those in Connecticut surely keep tabs on what he's doing.) That could have cost him his career. Unfortuantely he still has his seat.
We surely deserve better leaders who won't sell themselves out or who are under the influence of something else (money, various incentives, etc.)
But it's mainly our fault when we elect people to office who may not be of high mind. But we get what we deserve if we don't present a challenge to these elected officials. Philosophy doesn't count in American politics.
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» RE: Noam Chomsky for president 2008!
Posted by: humanity101
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Posted by: CovertRage on Jul 27, 2006 1:03 PM
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Joe shouldn't run. He should just walk while those K Street jobs as, er, uh, consultants, yes, consultants are still lucretively available.
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» Kissed by the chimp
Posted by: WhuThe?!?
» RE: Joe needs to retire.
Posted by: Thundergod
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Posted by: Ian B. on Jul 27, 2006 1:45 PM
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Posted by: jeffrey7 on Jul 27, 2006 1:52 PM
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We are ,once again, being assailed by the best con artists in the business,dressed up as your public servant. They are not,never have been or will soon be. The window dressing is in full swing. Most,if not all, of them are so far removed from the People,they could'nt walk down the street at night and not feel scared. They have good reason to be.People hate Hypocrites,Liars,Thieves,and Butchers. That 'is' what we have now. Don't say we don't. Their actions scream louder than all the sound bites they can buy. No incumbant deserves to be returned to office. If we fail to do so,we are the same as these scum that call themselves 'Leaders'.
Their rap has always been the same,'To have Freedom,we need Strong Security.' This is the biggest Lie that was even told!! To have strong security your need Great Freedom.
Freedom is Security. The Govt and everyone of their elected ones are your enemy. They,are controlled,by the Rich. They are the Enemy of Earth. Now who is it you want to vote for?
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Posted by: sofla100 on Jul 27, 2006 2:40 PM
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Posted by: jones666 on Jul 27, 2006 3:09 PM
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Just take the money and do what your told or you will feel the force of Israeli political blowback.
Joe represents the wealthy elitists that make up the democratic party statis quo. Making waves only when the risk is minimal. We wouldn't want to upset any of our friends at the club.
Joe would never go after a scumbag like cheney(who's right wing voting record in congress placed him squarely to the fight of Attila the
Hun) because he is a political pussy. Descriptives like"intelligent and gentlemanly" prove that. Fear of neo-con blowback and all(image is everything).
Statis quo dem. party leaders are the reason I refuse to vote for incumbents like Joe ever again.
I support Sen. Boxer in my home state of ca. but will not vote for Feinstein
as she like Joe represents the weathy corporate elitists who have sold out the working class.
Is Feingold the only potential 08 candidate with any integrity?
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» Joe Lieberman is a Real Senator and Everyone who matters knows it.
Posted by: coldeye
» RE: jones666
Posted by: marklar
» RE: Noam Chomsky for President '08!
Posted by: humanity101
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Posted by: doinaheckuvajob on Jul 27, 2006 3:16 PM
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Oh, and your kind is from the party of morals, manners, and values? Ok, troll, show us your stuff. Bet you can't do it.
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Posted by: mythbuster on Jul 27, 2006 3:30 PM
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Posted by: monkeywrench on Jul 27, 2006 3:32 PM
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This chuminess, this mutual back scratching at the expense of doing the People's work – what we send these clowns to Washington to do – is a serious disease that afflicts what is laughingly called our "leadership" today. And boy, is it contageous. I suggest that in the next election (assuming it might not be rigged...), with our votes we make it fatal.
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» There's No business like Show Business
Posted by: coldeye
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Posted by: Buzz on Jul 27, 2006 5:16 PM
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conservative.
That said, I am not convinced that progressives should
make unseating him one of our top priorities.
My short term goal in the context of current,
hyper-conservative U.S. politics, is to get the
Democrats in control of one or both houses of Congress.
Say that we defeat Lieberman. We have traded a Dem
for a Dem, in terms of the Senate’s 100 seats. I
know, Lieberman is conservative, and he does not
always vote the way that we would like. But he does
vote with the party rather often. I'd rather
spend the money and energy aimed at Lierman's
defeat on a REPUBLICAN senator and put a DEMOCRAT in her/his place. If the Dems get 51 seats, even if one is Lieberman, they gain control of all Senate
committee chairs, the Majority Leader post, etc. A lot of power that is now held by the Republicans.
I can understand why people detest Lieberman, but this is
electoral politics where it is best to think strategically, even
if that is not viscerally satisfying.
Some say that kicking Lieberman out will
send a message about who is welcome in the party.
I am unconvinced that that is going to help us. Shooing
some conservative Dems into the Republican fold and, probably, making the party smaller is not really helpful, strategically. Do I like them? No. Would I like them to vote for a Dem instead of a Republican? Yes.
Let me get to a long-term goal – enacting
progressive public policy in this damnably
conservative country. We’ve moved so far to
the right in the last 30 years that the country is
almost unrecognizeable. It is a source
of great anger and, at times, near despair.
A large part of the reason for that
movement to the right is a vast social and political
movement begun in the late 1960's by
disaffected conservatives who felt then much like we
feel now (see Jean Hardisty's book "Mobilizing Resentment").
This social movement was very successful and became
the New Right. As their political power grew they made a
strategic decision to take over the Republican Party,
from the state level up. The Christian Coalition was
active in that project. They could have made the decision to create a conservative third party, but it made more sense to take over the Republicans than to try the nearly impossible task (in the U.S.) of building a viable third party. This electoral stragegy was assisted by non-party conservative organizing projects (think tanks, news outlets, interest groups).
It will take a similar social movement from
our side to begin to move the country back
toward the left. The only issues that I can see
that could drive a movement of that size are
economic justice issues (poverty, the incredible
disparity in wealth, the shrinking middle class, etc.)
with social justice issues blended in. That movement
could take over & rejuvenate the Democratic Party
as part of its electoral strategy, but it would need to aim
for broader cultural change,as did the New Right (who
copied the tactics of Saul Alinsky & the New Deal Coalition).
In the short term shoving conservative Dems
out of the party, while viscerally satisfying, might
not be our best strategic choice. We do not have
the electoral and political power to get our way to any
degree without their help right now. That is just the cold,
unhappy reality. The path to a different reality is the one
I mentioned above.
Use your own best judgement. Peace.
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» Lieberman DOES NOT vote with our party when it counts!!!!
Posted by: psychochurch
» RE: Replacing Lieberman is the right and best strategy for reforming the Dems and replacing Rethug
Posted by: doinaheckuvajob
» RE: Ambivalent
Posted by: doinaheckuvajob
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Posted by: common intelligence on Jul 27, 2006 6:39 PM
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As I feel there are few Democratic representatives worth their spit.
But watching the evolution of reprentatives wain and meander around and get distrated from a relentless focus they should be maintaining on making Bush and his administration accountable for piracy of the nation, by pillaging and plundering Iraq under false pretenses and Shangahiing young men and women by deception to supporting their emipire building and murdering hundreds of thousands innocent people in the name of false patriotism can not be swept away.
But for Barbara Boxer to try to justify Lieberman as she does in the following letter shows very distracted judgement and personal favortude over being a representative of her constituency. This makes me conclude that we as an aware and intellegent populace that know and demand real democracy are ignored as fascism over whelms the voice of the people.
Oh, one more note before your read the letter following. I beleive, "you can't protect the hen house while keeping the fox amungst the chickens!"
The only thing the Democracts should be doing is running the lying deceivers out of government. They are not helping anyone but themselves. Same as Joe,and God help us Hillary and for holy sake B Clinton. But as you should already be able to see Bill is in cahoots with Herbert Walker, as Joe is supporting George. They are all in bed with each other. And now Boxer is choosing personal frienship over her job to do the will of the people.
The only possible Democratic leaders whom could start to repair or country would be Senator Biden, or Senator Russ Feingold. Even Al Gore. At least he realizes the truth of our dire deleima instead of ignores it. But I guess most americans are in denial and, "an't handle the truth!"
Feingold was the only one with the clearity of necessity to see Bush has to be stopped (exception of a few others like John Conyers. Whom has a suit against Bushin Federal Court in Michigan, along with 11 Senior Democratic Members of Congress.
But exception to that the whole of democrates are seemingly self-defeating except for behind the curtain they are all of the same cloth. Nancey Pelocy had a great opportunity to supprt Feingolds motion for action to censure Bush,but only one senator showed up. I can only guess as head of the party she feels a better stratigy is the lett the Republicans bury them selves by the November election then lay into the bastards. But I doubt it.
I say: "Initiate the nuclear option", when the republicans threaten with it. Shut the congress down and bring the country to a stop. Play hard ball and stay on focus. Don't let the republicans bait and switch. It's the only way to bring balance back to democracy. But thena agin how can we insist all other countries embrace Democracy when we can't?
Anyway,
Here is her letter to me: Read the following Part 2
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» RE: Boxers response PART 2
Posted by: common intelligence
» RE: Boxers response PART 2: Joe is in the club, yadaa yadaa, the other guy is whozits? And Joe and I
Posted by: doinaheckuvajob
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Posted by: sofla100 on Jul 27, 2006 7:36 PM
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Posted by: ShrubtheWarcriminal on Jul 27, 2006 8:16 PM
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Liberman represents all that is bad about the Democrapic party. He is a closet Repuke and should leave immediately...maybe join the Jewish army and help kill innocent Arabs.
Someone needs to start a third party, a true progressive party. If one was founded I predict a mass exodus from the Deomocrapic party I now despise almost as much as the Repukes.
To the Democraps--I will not give one more dime to you until I am confident that election fraud is at a bare minimum. Until you can do so, all else you try to accomplish is moot and I refuse to waste my hard earned money on you like I did in the last two elections.
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Posted by: pjrsullivan on Jul 27, 2006 10:03 PM
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I would like to add to that sentiment by saying: "Old Sailors don't die, they just smell that way."
And in the same vein: "Old Politicians don't die; They just rot away. So Joe and the rest of your political mobster cohorts, just keep rotting away.
Here is an ad that yoiu may consider using in your campaign:
Hi I'm Joe Lieberman and I'd like you to vote for me: And remember, "You vote for me, and I'll Rot for you."
.
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Posted by: doinaheckuvajob on Jul 27, 2006 10:43 PM
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What topics bring out the Rethug trolls en masse? Interestingly, defending their buddy and reliable vote in the Senate Joementum. And they're full of "freindly" (fire) advice to give us. Whenever the trolls are advising us, our BS detectors ought to be spinning maximum on the dial. Oh, they want to help us so much. If we lose Loserman, we'll be too liberal for America. That doesn't even pass the laugh test. It's Connecticutt's decision. They are the Decider here. And they have plenty of reasons to replace this guy who has sold his state and country out to the pharmaceutical, insurance and defense industries and screwed the ordinary citizen.
The Trolls are sure frantic to tell us not to replace the top Neocon advocate in the Dems. Gee, I wonder why. Well, there's no one, not even Hillary or Ben Nelson, who is as palsy walsy with W. Bush, or as comfortable with PNAC as orthodox Lieberman.
We are not going to have 2 Neocon parties, period. As it stands now, even the majority of Republican voters are starting to be concerned about their principles (small govt., tough but effective foreign policy, low taxes, etc.) being sold out to a cabal of Neoidiots and Neotyrants.
We are going to purge the Neocon Lieberman. Ok, Trolls, go back to your Neocon bunkers and keep fighting WWIII from your little Lazyboy chairs and fire away with your keyboards. You're unable to win this one. But I'm sure your little appendages will get quite a workout defending the Neoflag from the Constitution and Talking Points from any kind of sense in the thing inside your heads called a brain.
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Posted by: wli on Jul 28, 2006 1:19 AM
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Grim Trigger is a trigger strategy in game theory for a repeated game, such as an iterated prisoner's dilemma. Initially, a player using Grim Trigger will cooperate, but as soon as the opponent defects (thus satisfying the trigger condition), the player using Grim Trigger will defect for the remainder of the iterated game. Since a single defect by the opponent triggers defection forever, Grim Trigger is the most strictly unforgiving of strategies in an iterated game.
In particular, the grim trigger strategy is used to penalize the triggering behavior so sternly as to make it not worthwhile to risk triggering it. Working under the assumption that elections aren't rigged (which is a rather large assumption), announcing "grim triggers" and carrying them out is meaningful.
For instance, a sufficiently large bloc of voters implementing a grim trigger about some issue would forever after defect from the Democratic or Republican parties (possibly from both via third parties or write-in votes), possibly announcing their intentions. Voting against a candidate in a primary is another possible grim trigger strategy.
Personally, I have doubts about candidate-by-candidate strategies. It appears to me that the Democrats take turns betraying their constituents, though I've yet to get properly formatted voting records to analyze voting patterns with. In my opinion, grim triggers must be whole-party affairs to be effective. For instance, a grim trigger announcement regarding CAFTA, the Alito cloture vote, and similar would've had to have been directed at the Democratic party as a whole, so a clear message that if the party as a whole doesn't achieve the result it should, mass defection to e.g. independents or third parties will occur.
In this context, namely ignoring electoral fraud and assuming party coordination of contituent-betraying votes, I have serious doubts that replacing Lieberman will have the desired effect. The odds are that the same sort of vote coordination used to average enough votes to slam through the agenda will occur. It would take a large-scale defection to motivate any change in voting patterns.
Another way to think of it is as being similar to single-issue voting, except involving multiple issues. Here if any issue "goes the wrong way," the candidate or party voting the wrong way gets defected from in perpetuity.
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» RE: grim triggers and iterated games
Posted by: doinaheckuvajob
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Posted by: Buzz on Jul 28, 2006 6:19 AM
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» RE: Ummm...
Posted by: Buzz
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Posted by: mad/as/hell on Jul 28, 2006 10:06 AM
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Let's go to Katz's Deli on the lower eastside and I'll buy you a ham and cheese on kosher rye, with a glass of milk.
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Posted by: jende on Jul 29, 2006 11:53 AM
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Posted by: nbrown on Jul 30, 2006 10:12 AM
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This is an example of the failure of electoral politics.
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» RE: Lieberman just like his fellow Democrats
Posted by: doinaheckuvajob
» RE: The failure of denouncing electoral politics and replace it with pointless whining and pie in
Posted by: doinaheckuvajob
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Posted by: doinaheckuvajob on Jul 31, 2006 1:10 AM
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and support for Bush's Dubai ports deal linked text, his consideration of support for Republican plans to destroy Social Security, his support for permananent US bases in Iraq & Neocon plans to remake the entire Middle East:
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» RE: Sorry for the double post. Please read the next one. This one was posted too soon in error.
Posted by: doinaheckuvajob
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Posted by: doinaheckuvajob on Jul 31, 2006 1:23 AM
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and support for Bush's Dubai ports deal: linked text, his consideration of support for Republican plans to destroy Social Security, his support for permananent US bases in Iraq & Neocon plans to remake the entire Middle East, and his continual pursuit of a permanent Senate seat at all costs: linked text including considering running as a Republican: linked text and here are some of Lieberman's greatest hits collection of things he has said or done counter to Dem values: linked text
No, Joe Neocon Lieberman is not like any other Democrats.
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» RE: nbrown's link to back up his claims is to some extremist blogger. Not exactly a good source,
Posted by: doinaheckuvajob
» RE: In fact, nbrown's link is to his own Blog. Some source. My dog told me that Lieberman eats pizza
Posted by: doinaheckuvajob
» RE: Lieberman is not like other Dems: Lieberman's support for keeping Terri Schiavo on feeding tubes
Posted by: doinaheckuvajob
» RE: Here's the correct link to Joementum's support for the Dubai ports deal.
Posted by: doinaheckuvajob
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Posted by: drappleby on Jul 31, 2006 3:09 AM
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Posted by: doinaheckuvajob on Jul 31, 2006 3:14 AM
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The 'conservative rich folks give more money to charity' argument is absurd. For one thing, many charity contributions are really tax shelters. For another, many are given to religious organizations with political agendas masquerading as phony charities.
Take your charity argument and shove it back into the hell from where you came from, troll.
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» RE: And where are the links to the 'facts' you claim troll? From the Weekly World News? The Onion?
Posted by: doinaheckuvajob
» RE: And where are the links to the 'facts' you claim troll? From the Weekly World News? The Onion?
Posted by: drappleby
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Posted by: drappleby on Jul 31, 2006 3:52 AM
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» RE: I don't respond to fake questions by Trolls
Posted by: doinaheckuvajob
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Posted by: doinaheckuvajob on Jul 31, 2006 3:55 AM
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The lineage of people. As if the entire US Senate wasn't descended from millionaires. Trashing Lamont won't work. JFK, FDR were trashed for being from rich families. And I bet elsewhere you post about the virtues of the rich and Ayn Rand, but here you bash them when they're liberals because you know that liberals are uncomfortable about rich politicians. Clever, but it won't work. We're on to your filthy, swift boating, nasty, down and dirty, disgusting tactics.
Why do you get some toilet paper and clean up your mouth with it, troll?
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» RE: The above post was in answer to drabbleby's post titled » RE: And where are the links to the
Posted by: doinaheckuvajob
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Posted by: drappleby on Jul 31, 2006 4:07 AM
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Posted by: drappleby on Jul 31, 2006 4:24 AM
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» RE: Is drabbleby a richboy? Is he the offspring of robberbaron Karl Rove? Is his partly inherited
Posted by: doinaheckuvajob
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Posted by: doinaheckuvajob on Jul 31, 2006 5:02 AM
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He will repeatedly assert the superiority of Rethug politicians because he claims they give more to charity out of the goodness of their sweet hearts. He is now trashing Lamont in hopes that he will cause less votes for Lamont as Lamont is a threat to the Neocon enabler Lieberman.
This troll's 'facts' are worthless, his points are pointless.
Earlier he said we should give to charities and give a list of charities. When I asked for a list of charities, he switched back the subject to Lamont bashing. Pure trolling tactic.
This troll is not interested in serious, thoughtful dialog. He's interested in a fake dialog to make his points. Point being that Lamont is a horrible rich man whose lineage and personal character are to be questioned. He doesn't address Lamont's politicial positions and proposals nor Lieberman's because he strives to sow personal distaste and hatred through character assassination. Pure Neocon trolling.
There are very few people who run for the Senate who don't have a lot of money, because it's very expensive to run. The problem is the system, not that candidates are rich, but that the system makes it hard for a non-wealthy individual to run and win. We all know that. That's an issue for discussion.
But notice the topic here in the article is Lieberman and his woes, but this Troll has diverted it to character assassinations on Lamont.
Lieberman's record for ordinary people is abysmal and hard to defend, his record of votes for the millionaires, corporations, lobbyists, DC insiders, Neocons, and rich donors is overwhelming. That's the real issue with money in politics. Because this Troll can't discuss Joe's votes nor Lamont's positions, he resorts to character assassinations on Lamont.
I don't respond to Trolls who bait me with their nonsense, and I apologize not to Trolls but to alternet readers if I went over the line in attacking the Troll with my previous comments, but I get really fed up with their behaviors.
It's time we boot out the Liebermans, who are supported by a dirty tricks political industry ruled by Rove --slimy push polls, phony attacks, all kinds of crazy stuff has happened in this race that Lieberman's campaign has engaged in, including arresting people with tickets to his events with the wrong tshirt (Bush tactics) and Trolls who character assassinate his opponent and give us 'friendly' (fire) advice on who we should vote for.
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» character assassination
Posted by: drappleby
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Posted by: drappleby on Jul 31, 2006 7:07 AM
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» RE: This troll is a huge liar. He has been here before, posting, saying Repub politicians are better
Posted by: doinaheckuvajob
» RE: This Troll can't tell a snark attack from a personal attack
Posted by: doinaheckuvajob
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Posted by: doinaheckuvajob on Jul 31, 2006 1:45 PM
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newguy...Bush puts burden on the poor and middle class
[Report this comment]
Posted by: drappleby on Jul 9, 2006 5:07 PM
newsguy, you state that.."Bush conservatives lower taxes on the rich.....putting more of a burden on the poor and middle class.." Is that really true? What IS the burden on the poor and middle class? using 2003 IRS data the top 1 % pay 34% of the taxes. the top 5 % pay 54 %. The top 10 % pay 65 % and the top 50 % pay 96.54 % of the taxes. The bottom 50 % (the poor and middle class) pay a WHOPPING 3 % of the taxes, down from 3.5 %. On the other hand who USES the tax money? Do you think the poor pay the $11,000 per child for school in Bridgeport Connecticut? Do the poor pay for their medicaid, food stamps, welfare, aid to dependent children, section 8 housing? etc etc?? Do the drug dealers, rapists and murderers in prison pay the $24,000 to incarcerate them and keep them off the streets? No, the rich, most of whom worked for their money, (very few inherited it like Sen Kennedy or Rockefeller or married it (twice) like Kerry). These people, the hated, despised rich people......pay for virtually everything in this country. Many of them trained for many years and work very hard...60 to 80 to even 100 hours a week. Maybe that's why some of them are rich. Maybe once in a while the people with their hands out for everything could show a little appreciation, cause "poor" in America is nothing like poor in the rest of the world. regards, I await the courtesy of your reply.
Interesting, how this Troll who claims in today's postings to be a friend of the poor and charity in the USA, in this posting defends the rich and craps on the poor. This troll has a long record of postings here. If somebody has a lot of time ont their hands, they can find them and verify it. The rest of you with decent memories of comments at alternet will remember his posts easily. They are always pro-Republican (except when he's called on it as he is today, so in typical Troll tactic he pretends to be an independant thinker, a nonpartisan. That's BS.), always pro-rich except for rich Democrats are the antiChrist in this Troll's postings. This troll also always makes arguments defending Republican fiscal policies and criticizing the personal finances of Democrats.
He is not nonpartisan nor objective nor looking for reasonable debate. He is trying to score points for his side, sow doubts among us about our Dem leaders. And now today he lies bigtime.
This is 100% Troll behavior. Go back to the Neocon hell you came from, Troll.
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Posted by: drappleby on Jul 31, 2006 2:05 PM
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» RE: Troll, you have lost the debate. You and your trolling are the issue.
Posted by: doinaheckuvajob
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Posted by: drappleby on Jul 31, 2006 2:16 PM
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» RE: Anyone can google this guy's postings here. I have provided an example already. Anyone with a
Posted by: doinaheckuvajob
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Posted by: DataDoc on Jul 26, 2006 11:14 PM
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He not only voted for the war, he gave patriotic defenses of the war, telling us how important it is to bankrupt this country. Many democrats follow his lead now, and support the war, whatever the cost. Not only Republicans, but now some Democrats want to build a fence along the border with Mexico, pushing up the deficit. And Democrats can even swing around and support abortion restrictions now. Look at our great Democratic party, and how little they reflect the American worker that built the party. They're the lapdog of big business, and they can get away with it, because self-proclaimed leaders like Vice-Presidential nominee Lieberman encourage that behavior with Republican-lite speeches. And when it all comes crashing down (the national debt, I mean), then Lieberman's cronies will provide him with a golden parachute.
This guy is the leader of the neo-con-men Democrats, and when he goes, the party will feel a great weight lifted!
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» RE: Lieberman stinks - that's why Gore lost!
Posted by: adp3d
» Gore lost because of Gore
Posted by: jlohman
» Au Contraire the election was stolen
Posted by: jwg
» RE: Au Contraire the election was stolen
Posted by: willymack
» RE: Lieberman stinks - that's why Gore lost!
Posted by: madmac10
» RE: Lieberman stinks - that's why Gore lost!
Posted by: Jamboree
» Oh yeah, a party of Dennis Kucinich? whose idea was that? Karl Rove?
Posted by: coldeye
» RE: Oh yeah, a party of Dennis Kucinich? whose idea was that? Karl Rove?
Posted by: ReallyBearish
» RE: Oh yeah, a party of Dennis Kucinich? whose idea was that? Karl Rove?
Posted by: SpankyDaWheel
» RE: Oh yeah, a party of Dennis Kucinich? whose idea was that? Karl Rove?
Posted by: Kitty Lady Oregon
» RE: Oh yeah, a party of Dennis Kucinich? whose idea was that? Karl Rove?
Posted by: Basenjis
» RE: cldeye, the record of centrists isn't good
Posted by: Jesse
» RE: Lieberman stinks - that's why Gore lost!
Posted by: Thundergod
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Posted by: Bobsays on Jul 26, 2006 11:59 PM
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He always comes across as a slime bag. The Democrats, if they have a hope in hell, need some credible candidates. Gore so far is the only one.
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» RE: Lieberman's strings pulled by Israeli puppet masters
Posted by: thinkprogress
» RE: Lieberman's strings pulled by Israeli puppet masters
Posted by: jimlup
» RE: Help! the Jews Made Me Do It!
Posted by: Bobsays
» RE: Help! the Jews Made Me Do It!
Posted by: coldeye
» Now you're making some sense
Posted by: WhuThe?!?
» RE: Lieberman's strings pulled by Israeli puppet masters
Posted by: Jamboree
» RE: Lieberman's strings pulled by Israeli puppet masters
Posted by: rwa
» RE: Lieberman's strings pulled by Israeli puppet masters
Posted by: WhuThe?!?
» Absolutely! Israeli's interests above USs'
Posted by: humanity101
» Let's call time on this minority's guilt game
Posted by: Bobsays
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Posted by: rsaxto on Jul 27, 2006 3:40 AM
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» Have You Reported These Crimes, Mr. International Citizen?
Posted by: coldeye
» Well, hey, if everybody else is committing war crimes and
Posted by: WhuThe?!?
» RE: Well, hey, if everybody else is committing war crimes and
Posted by: Basenjis
» RE: Have You Reported These Crimes, Mr. International Citizen?
Posted by: Wacre
» Go Ahead, lump them all together
Posted by: Vani
» Just Who Are You Disagreeing With?
Posted by: coldeye
Comments are closed-
Posted by: coldeye on Jul 27, 2006 4:04 AM
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Joe's record on Iraq, for which Wall St rich guy Lamont is so upset, is no worse than Kerry or Hilary. I somehow missed the bolt of the left wing from the Democratic Party when Salutin, I'm a Vet Kerry "reported for duty" like a tin soldier in Boston in 04.
If you are for pro-public health and labor programs, and for an intelligent, practical approach to global climate change, you will support Joe Lieberman. If he does disagree with you, he will not call you a fascist or a Commie. I cannot explain this human failing of his to be respectful of all people and not to name call. Nevertheless, he deserves re-election.
If you are against all Demcrats, and are working to create a democratic socialist party, then I have more respect for you if you oppose Joe. But that is not what Ned Lamont, scion of the Corliss Lamont-Vanderbilt fortune is about.
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» Lieberman is not the right man for this job
Posted by: Bobsays
» Forget About Hilary
Posted by: Vani
» RE: Joe Lieberman is an Outstanding Public Servant
Posted by: shinseiji
» RE: Joe Lieberman is an Outstanding Public Servant
Posted by: valc
» RE: Joe Lieberman is an Outstanding Public Servant
Posted by: Jamboree
» RE: Joe Lieberman is an Outstanding Public Servant.........the kiss...
Posted by: picket
» Here here!
Posted by: Vani
» RE: Joe Lieberman is an Outstanding Public Servant
Posted by: brunowe
» RE: Joe Lieberman is an Outstanding Public Servant -- So??
Posted by: Jesse
» Jesse, Take A Hike
Posted by: coldeye
» RE: Jesse, Take A Hike
Posted by: Jesse
» RE: Do u work for Alternet w/the purpose to stir up dog doo?
Posted by: marklar
» Uh...Joe's record on Iraq is much, much worse than Kerry's
Posted by: WhuThe?!?
» Wrong!
Posted by: Thundergod
» Thank you
Posted by: Capybara
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Posted by: Tom Degan on Jul 27, 2006 4:09 AM
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Our only hope is that his presence on the ticket will split the vote - the republican vote! Based on his past voting record, that is a very likely scenerio. He's pathetic.
Tom Degan
Goshen, NY
The Daily Rant
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» RE: LIEberman
Posted by: coldeye
» Leiberman is the test for us in this country!!!! He must not be reelected if we, the People, ...
Posted by: Pepper
» RE: Leiberman is the test for us in this country!!!! He must not be reelected if we, the People, .
Posted by: Jamboree
» Frying German citizens is OK but making a mistake on Iraq isn't?
Posted by: coldeye
» Coldeye - Deliberate misunderstanding?
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» Roosevelt a fascist?
Posted by: Swatopluk
» RE: oosevelt a fascist?
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» How dare you compare Iraq to Nazi Germany
Posted by: Vani
» RE: LIEberman
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: LIEberman
Posted by: xbj
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Uncle Tupelo on Jul 27, 2006 4:50 AM
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» RE: Don't worry about the R vote
Posted by: Thundergod
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Posted by: marklar on Jul 27, 2006 5:14 AM
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» RE: Lieberman and Zell Miller: Repubtards posing as Democrats
Posted by: shinseiji
» I think its both........ they are acting the same, committing the same atrocities......
Posted by: Pepper
» RE: I think its both........ they are acting the same, committing the same atrocities......
Posted by: marklar
» RE: Lieberman and Zell Miller: Repubtards posing as Democrats
Posted by: shinseiji
» Lieberman and Miller had totally different voting records
Posted by: coldeye
» RE: An answer to you question
Posted by: marklar
» RE: Lieberman and Zell Miller: Repubtards posing as Democrats
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: Lieberman and Zell Miller: Repubtards posing as Democrats
Posted by: marklar
» RE: Lieberman and Zell Miller: Repubtards posing as Democrats
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» That is why I say now "VOTE OUT ALL INCUMBANTS REGARDLESS OF PARTY"!
Posted by: Pepper
» Well said! It is time to form a grassroot movement to counter AIPAC.
Posted by: humanity101
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Posted by: ArchiesBoy on Jul 27, 2006 5:34 AM
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Gore lost because Bill Clinton couldn't keep his pants zipped around Monica Lewinsky. And the stink of that galvanized the Republican Party and the Religous Right like a hive of killer bees. It was the perfect gift. Clinton GAVE them his OWN DEFEAT. (It takes an intelligent person to make a REALLY stupid mistake.) And the stink of it got all over Gore. He was forever associated with the Clinton Administration and that's why he lost. Joe didn't help anything, but he wasn't the reason Gore lost, it was Clinton's STUPID sexual activity. He disgraced himself, his family, the Presidency, the Democratic Party, the American People, and the United States. And I will NEVER forgive him for it. His sexual idiocy set the stage and buttered the skids for George W. Bush and his incipient dictatorship.
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» RE: Why Gore Lost
Posted by: domenico234
» RE: Why Gore Lost
Posted by: kmeyer
» RE: Why Gore Lost
Posted by: ElectronRunes
» RE: and the other reason Why Gore Lost
Posted by: Polly
» RE: Why Gore Lost, not because of Clinton
Posted by: rwa
» At least Clinton's sex was somewhat normal, thats more than I can say for the neocon.....
Posted by: Pepper
» Gore lost because Lieberman is jewish
Posted by: psychochurch
» RE: Gore lost because of the l-o-c-k-b-o-x
Posted by: coldeye
» LOL, well that explains why you didn't vote for him..... hahahaha
Posted by: Pepper
» How is that possible?
Posted by: chief of okeefe
» RE: Why Gore Lost
Posted by: Thundergod
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Posted by: 3reddogs on Jul 27, 2006 6:13 AM
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Posted by: Lincoln fan on Jul 27, 2006 6:19 AM
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The establishment allows the Democrats to be the "loyal opposition" and "the lesser of the evils", up to a point. But they're still on the leash. When the majority of voters realize that the Republicans are evil the Democrats will win. Then we'll get back a little of what the Republicans stole.
At every election the public is told to ask, "am I better off now than four (or eight) years ago?". This is the wrong question. A better question is, "Who runs the government: the voters or the corporatocracy?".
I believe that if we look at the results; the lack of affordable healthcare, the state of public education, the exportation of jobs, the fights to kill the unions and social security, etc., we will find that the corporate dollars trump our votes. Both political parties are controlled by big business.
The corporatocracy wasn't elected and we can't vote them out. The only effective strategy is to take control of the platforms of both parties. We could do this before the next election with a strong grassroots movement.
Join The Lincoln Inititive today. Make "government of the people, by the people, and for the people" a reality. Click on URGENT
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Posted by: xbj on Jul 27, 2006 6:36 AM
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Oops, sorry, that's Prime Minister.
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» RE: JOE LIEBERMAN FOR PRIUME MINISTER OF ISRAEL!!!
Posted by: para-dice
» RE: JOE LIEBERMAN FOR PRESIDENT OF ISRAEL
Posted by: rwa
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Posted by: i.R.i on Jul 27, 2006 6:41 AM
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» RE: I'll Take Joe and Trade You an Arlen
Posted by: ElectronRunes
» W's Decline?
Posted by: i.R.i
» RE: W's Decline?
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: I'll Take Joe and Trade You an Arlen
Posted by: veive
» RE: I'll Take Joe and Trade You an Arlen
Posted by: I.RIGHT.I
» RE: I'll Take Joe and Trade You an Arlen
Posted by: veive
» RE: IRI is a Troll. His posts make no sense. They are just vitriol bombs tossed out there to make
Posted by: doinaheckuvajob
» RE: I'll Take Joe and Trade You an Arlen
Posted by: Ian B.
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Posted by: i.R.i on Jul 27, 2006 7:05 AM
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» RE: Gore Lost, LOL
Posted by: jimb
» Gore won a majority of the votes-- that is not losing
Posted by: chief of okeefe
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Posted by: CTvoter on Jul 27, 2006 7:15 AM
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The best argument against Joe is that if he DOES run as an independent, it will be the Repubs that re-elect him. Joe does NOT represent the voters of CT. A vote against Joe is not necessarily a vote for Lamont, either.
A vote against Joe is merely a signal that the average voter is sick and tired of having two Repubs to choose from. Joe is only the canary in the coal mine, and if the rest of his cronies don't take heed, they will all be back working for large corporations, where they should be. But not on our payroll, and not handing the country over to Halliburton, AT&T, et al.
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» A vote against Joe is merely a signal that the average voter is sick and tired of having two Repubs
Posted by: Lincoln fan
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Posted by: dikaiosyne on Jul 27, 2006 7:30 AM
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» RE: easonable Joe
Posted by: lively56
» RE: reasonable Joe
Posted by: Ian B.
» RE: Why would we take advice from Right wing Trolls? Troll advice is as useful as Joe Lieerman's
Posted by: doinaheckuvajob
» NO the war in Iraq must end in defeat
Posted by: chief of okeefe
» RE: uneasonable Joe
Posted by: Thundergod
» Stop Republican Pedophilia! (was: RE: Reasonable Joe)
Posted by: wli
» Republicans Love Joe
Posted by: DataDoc
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Posted by: VannaLaRoche on Jul 27, 2006 8:16 AM
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» RE: Israeli citizenship
Posted by: coldeye
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Posted by: Iconoclast421 on Jul 27, 2006 8:15 AM
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It's exactly the kind of insanity that occured right after 9/11. What did I miss? Did another round of anthrax letters go to democratic senators? Or is the Israeli lobby just that powerful?
It's easy for someone like Lamont to say they'd do what's right and not just what everyone else does to please Israel or the neocons. But had Lamont been in Lieberman's position, I bet he would have gone along just like Lieberman. That's the funny thing.
Of course, Lamont, like any sane person would admit that it was a mistake. But how can that be enough? What good does it do to admit you were wrong after all the damage is done. Especially when Israel is attempting to do exactly the same thing we did when we invaded Iraq. It's the same thing. And the damn congress acts the same way. They vote almost unanimously in favor of it. Despite Iraq.
So what now? Is it going to take 3 years and 200,000 dead Lebanese for these bastards to come around on Israel? Hell, we'll be into Iran by then. This is disgusting. What will it take to make people stop being so naive?
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» RE: It goes way beyond Joe
Posted by: rinpochet
» RE: It goes way beyond Joe
Posted by: ghoster
» US Jews Need to Take a Time Out From Israel
Posted by: coldeye
» RE: US Jews Need to Take a Time Out From Israel
Posted by: mythbuster
» Answer to your question: What will it take ...... VOTE OUT ALL INCUMBANTS REGARDLESS OF PARTY!
Posted by: Pepper
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Posted by: rwa on Jul 27, 2006 9:23 AM
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"And in the general hardening of outlook that set in . . . practices which had been long abandoned - imprisonment without trial, the use of war prisoners as slaves, public executions, torture to extract confessions . . . and the deportation of whole populations - not only became common again, but were tolerated and even defended by people who considered themselves enlightened and progressive."
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» RE: Lieberman for BIG BROTHER
Posted by: Thundergod
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Posted by: jimb on Jul 27, 2006 9:33 AM
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All you need to know about Joe is demonstrated by the extent to which Republicans (and Republicans claiming to be posting as Democrats) will go to defend and promote him. They want him bad.
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Posted by: psychochurch on Jul 27, 2006 9:45 AM
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Posted by: brunowe on Jul 27, 2006 9:58 AM
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» RE: asmussen has Lamont ahead
Posted by: mythbuster
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Posted by: scearfo on Jul 27, 2006 10:05 AM
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Posted by: ShrubtheWarcriminal on Jul 27, 2006 10:06 AM
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Someone needs to start a third party, a true progressive party. If one was founded I predict a mass exodus from the Deomocrapic party I now despise almost as much as the Repukes.
To the Democraps--I will not give one more dime to you until I am confident that election fraud is at a bare minimum. Until you can do so, all else you try to accomplish is moot and I refuse to waste my hard earned money on you like I did in the last two elections.
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» RE: Dems will keep loosing because they're idiots. Republicans control the zeros and ones.
Posted by: humanity101
» Kick the phoney repub out of the dem party...
Posted by: Thundergod
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Posted by: WhuThe?!? on Jul 27, 2006 10:53 AM
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» Bill and Hill are smearing Vick's Salve on the leg to be amputated.
Posted by: CovertRage
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Posted by: marklar on Jul 27, 2006 11:15 AM
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joes not just a loser (the Israel lobby forced Gore to choose Joe)
Good satire.
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Posted by: galen on Jul 27, 2006 11:54 AM
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Joe Lieberman has become old, has mutated and cancerous. His organism, the Democratic Party, is badly infected, and its largest metastasis, the DLC is now in charge. The DLC is a very clever mutation, as most cancerous tumors are, and it prolifically produces quantities of little metastases, which may for all the world look like normal cells. (Bill, Hillary and Obama are all currently suspected deviant cells!) Unless, and until, that is, one observes what they do as they invade and take root in other vital organs of the organism. I fear the prognosis is grim, for the entire organism is corrupted and rotten.
Yes, Joe has stayed, literally, too long at the party. The chemotherapy required to extinguish him and the other metastases will likely destroy the entire organism. And if the chemo does not kill the body, it may euthanize itself out of its own intense pain, knowing that it is steadilly wasting away from within, and can no longer compete as a functional organism. Regardless, left to its own devices, it will die a slow, miserable death.
It is natural selection, gradual maybe, but certain. Nature, like politics, has a way of eliminating the dysfunctional. Ultimately, the strong, healthy and adaptable will survive.
Life is abundant, prolific, and progressive. New and better organisms spring forth all the time. I'm hoping to become a functional, healthy cell within one such emerging organism.
Sleep with the fishes, Joe, into eternity with the body you unwittingly helped destroy!
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» RE: Joe is waiting for his buddy Saddam Hussein.
Posted by: humanity101
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Posted by: larry278 on Jul 27, 2006 12:11 PM
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» RE: epoop/Democrap
Posted by: Thundergod
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Posted by: hotlipsin61 on Jul 27, 2006 12:46 PM
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We blew it when Al Gore chose this dummkopf Joseph Lieberman to be his running mate, and we've seen what a disastrous choice that was for the Donkey party.
I remember watching that debate and Lieberman blew his chances to expose Cheney for what kind of predator he is.
Since then the Donkeys have been in a full-scale retreat from the American political scene who have offered feeble resistance to the Elephants.
Lieberman blindly supprted the "war" ON Iraq and he hasn't made much noise on the political map. (But those in Connecticut surely keep tabs on what he's doing.) That could have cost him his career. Unfortuantely he still has his seat.
We surely deserve better leaders who won't sell themselves out or who are under the influence of something else (money, various incentives, etc.)
But it's mainly our fault when we elect people to office who may not be of high mind. But we get what we deserve if we don't present a challenge to these elected officials. Philosophy doesn't count in American politics.
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» RE: Noam Chomsky for president 2008!
Posted by: humanity101
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Posted by: CovertRage on Jul 27, 2006 1:03 PM
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Joe shouldn't run. He should just walk while those K Street jobs as, er, uh, consultants, yes, consultants are still lucretively available.
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» Kissed by the chimp
Posted by: WhuThe?!?
» RE: Joe needs to retire.
Posted by: Thundergod
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Posted by: Ian B. on Jul 27, 2006 1:45 PM
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Posted by: jeffrey7 on Jul 27, 2006 1:52 PM
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We are ,once again, being assailed by the best con artists in the business,dressed up as your public servant. They are not,never have been or will soon be. The window dressing is in full swing. Most,if not all, of them are so far removed from the People,they could'nt walk down the street at night and not feel scared. They have good reason to be.People hate Hypocrites,Liars,Thieves,and Butchers. That 'is' what we have now. Don't say we don't. Their actions scream louder than all the sound bites they can buy. No incumbant deserves to be returned to office. If we fail to do so,we are the same as these scum that call themselves 'Leaders'.
Their rap has always been the same,'To have Freedom,we need Strong Security.' This is the biggest Lie that was even told!! To have strong security your need Great Freedom.
Freedom is Security. The Govt and everyone of their elected ones are your enemy. They,are controlled,by the Rich. They are the Enemy of Earth. Now who is it you want to vote for?
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Posted by: sofla100 on Jul 27, 2006 2:40 PM
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Posted by: jones666 on Jul 27, 2006 3:09 PM
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Just take the money and do what your told or you will feel the force of Israeli political blowback.
Joe represents the wealthy elitists that make up the democratic party statis quo. Making waves only when the risk is minimal. We wouldn't want to upset any of our friends at the club.
Joe would never go after a scumbag like cheney(who's right wing voting record in congress placed him squarely to the fight of Attila the
Hun) because he is a political pussy. Descriptives like"intelligent and gentlemanly" prove that. Fear of neo-con blowback and all(image is everything).
Statis quo dem. party leaders are the reason I refuse to vote for incumbents like Joe ever again.
I support Sen. Boxer in my home state of ca. but will not vote for Feinstein
as she like Joe represents the weathy corporate elitists who have sold out the working class.
Is Feingold the only potential 08 candidate with any integrity?
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» Joe Lieberman is a Real Senator and Everyone who matters knows it.
Posted by: coldeye
» RE: jones666
Posted by: marklar
» RE: Noam Chomsky for President '08!
Posted by: humanity101
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Posted by: doinaheckuvajob on Jul 27, 2006 3:16 PM
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Oh, and your kind is from the party of morals, manners, and values? Ok, troll, show us your stuff. Bet you can't do it.
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Posted by: mythbuster on Jul 27, 2006 3:30 PM
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Posted by: monkeywrench on Jul 27, 2006 3:32 PM
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This chuminess, this mutual back scratching at the expense of doing the People's work – what we send these clowns to Washington to do – is a serious disease that afflicts what is laughingly called our "leadership" today. And boy, is it contageous. I suggest that in the next election (assuming it might not be rigged...), with our votes we make it fatal.
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» There's No business like Show Business
Posted by: coldeye
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Posted by: Buzz on Jul 27, 2006 5:16 PM
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conservative.
That said, I am not convinced that progressives should
make unseating him one of our top priorities.
My short term goal in the context of current,
hyper-conservative U.S. politics, is to get the
Democrats in control of one or both houses of Congress.
Say that we defeat Lieberman. We have traded a Dem
for a Dem, in terms of the Senate’s 100 seats. I
know, Lieberman is conservative, and he does not
always vote the way that we would like. But he does
vote with the party rather often. I'd rather
spend the money and energy aimed at Lierman's
defeat on a REPUBLICAN senator and put a DEMOCRAT in her/his place. If the Dems get 51 seats, even if one is Lieberman, they gain control of all Senate
committee chairs, the Majority Leader post, etc. A lot of power that is now held by the Republicans.
I can understand why people detest Lieberman, but this is
electoral politics where it is best to think strategically, even
if that is not viscerally satisfying.
Some say that kicking Lieberman out will
send a message about who is welcome in the party.
I am unconvinced that that is going to help us. Shooing
some conservative Dems into the Republican fold and, probably, making the party smaller is not really helpful, strategically. Do I like them? No. Would I like them to vote for a Dem instead of a Republican? Yes.
Let me get to a long-term goal – enacting
progressive public policy in this damnably
conservative country. We’ve moved so far to
the right in the last 30 years that the country is
almost unrecognizeable. It is a source
of great anger and, at times, near despair.
A large part of the reason for that
movement to the right is a vast social and political
movement begun in the late 1960's by
disaffected conservatives who felt then much like we
feel now (see Jean Hardisty's book "Mobilizing Resentment").
This social movement was very successful and became
the New Right. As their political power grew they made a
strategic decision to take over the Republican Party,
from the state level up. The Christian Coalition was
active in that project. They could have made the decision to create a conservative third party, but it made more sense to take over the Republicans than to try the nearly impossible task (in the U.S.) of building a viable third party. This electoral stragegy was assisted by non-party conservative organizing projects (think tanks, news outlets, interest groups).
It will take a similar social movement from
our side to begin to move the country back
toward the left. The only issues that I can see
that could drive a movement of that size are
economic justice issues (poverty, the incredible
disparity in wealth, the shrinking middle class, etc.)
with social justice issues blended in. That movement
could take over & rejuvenate the Democratic Party
as part of its electoral strategy, but it would need to aim
for broader cultural change,as did the New Right (who
copied the tactics of Saul Alinsky & the New Deal Coalition).
In the short term shoving conservative Dems
out of the party, while viscerally satisfying, might
not be our best strategic choice. We do not have
the electoral and political power to get our way to any
degree without their help right now. That is just the cold,
unhappy reality. The path to a different reality is the one
I mentioned above.
Use your own best judgement. Peace.
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» Lieberman DOES NOT vote with our party when it counts!!!!
Posted by: psychochurch
» RE: Replacing Lieberman is the right and best strategy for reforming the Dems and replacing Rethug
Posted by: doinaheckuvajob
» RE: Ambivalent
Posted by: doinaheckuvajob
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Posted by: common intelligence on Jul 27, 2006 6:39 PM
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As I feel there are few Democratic representatives worth their spit.
But watching the evolution of reprentatives wain and meander around and get distrated from a relentless focus they should be maintaining on making Bush and his administration accountable for piracy of the nation, by pillaging and plundering Iraq under false pretenses and Shangahiing young men and women by deception to supporting their emipire building and murdering hundreds of thousands innocent people in the name of false patriotism can not be swept away.
But for Barbara Boxer to try to justify Lieberman as she does in the following letter shows very distracted judgement and personal favortude over being a representative of her constituency. This makes me conclude that we as an aware and intellegent populace that know and demand real democracy are ignored as fascism over whelms the voice of the people.
Oh, one more note before your read the letter following. I beleive, "you can't protect the hen house while keeping the fox amungst the chickens!"
The only thing the Democracts should be doing is running the lying deceivers out of government. They are not helping anyone but themselves. Same as Joe,and God help us Hillary and for holy sake B Clinton. But as you should already be able to see Bill is in cahoots with Herbert Walker, as Joe is supporting George. They are all in bed with each other. And now Boxer is choosing personal frienship over her job to do the will of the people.
The only possible Democratic leaders whom could start to repair or country would be Senator Biden, or Senator Russ Feingold. Even Al Gore. At least he realizes the truth of our dire deleima instead of ignores it. But I guess most americans are in denial and, "an't handle the truth!"
Feingold was the only one with the clearity of necessity to see Bush has to be stopped (exception of a few others like John Conyers. Whom has a suit against Bushin Federal Court in Michigan, along with 11 Senior Democratic Members of Congress.
But exception to that the whole of democrates are seemingly self-defeating except for behind the curtain they are all of the same cloth. Nancey Pelocy had a great opportunity to supprt Feingolds motion for action to censure Bush,but only one senator showed up. I can only guess as head of the party she feels a better stratigy is the lett the Republicans bury them selves by the November election then lay into the bastards. But I doubt it.
I say: "Initiate the nuclear option", when the republicans threaten with it. Shut the congress down and bring the country to a stop. Play hard ball and stay on focus. Don't let the republicans bait and switch. It's the only way to bring balance back to democracy. But thena agin how can we insist all other countries embrace Democracy when we can't?
Anyway,
Here is her letter to me: Read the following Part 2
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» RE: Boxers response PART 2
Posted by: common intelligence
» RE: Boxers response PART 2: Joe is in the club, yadaa yadaa, the other guy is whozits? And Joe and I
Posted by: doinaheckuvajob
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Posted by: sofla100 on Jul 27, 2006 7:36 PM
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Posted by: ShrubtheWarcriminal on Jul 27, 2006 8:16 PM
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Liberman represents all that is bad about the Democrapic party. He is a closet Repuke and should leave immediately...maybe join the Jewish army and help kill innocent Arabs.
Someone needs to start a third party, a true progressive party. If one was founded I predict a mass exodus from the Deomocrapic party I now despise almost as much as the Repukes.
To the Democraps--I will not give one more dime to you until I am confident that election fraud is at a bare minimum. Until you can do so, all else you try to accomplish is moot and I refuse to waste my hard earned money on you like I did in the last two elections.
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Posted by: pjrsullivan on Jul 27, 2006 10:03 PM
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I would like to add to that sentiment by saying: "Old Sailors don't die, they just smell that way."
And in the same vein: "Old Politicians don't die; They just rot away. So Joe and the rest of your political mobster cohorts, just keep rotting away.
Here is an ad that yoiu may consider using in your campaign:
Hi I'm Joe Lieberman and I'd like you to vote for me: And remember, "You vote for me, and I'll Rot for you."
.
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Posted by: doinaheckuvajob on Jul 27, 2006 10:43 PM
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What topics bring out the Rethug trolls en masse? Interestingly, defending their buddy and reliable vote in the Senate Joementum. And they're full of "freindly" (fire) advice to give us. Whenever the trolls are advising us, our BS detectors ought to be spinning maximum on the dial. Oh, they want to help us so much. If we lose Loserman, we'll be too liberal for America. That doesn't even pass the laugh test. It's Connecticutt's decision. They are the Decider here. And they have plenty of reasons to replace this guy who has sold his state and country out to the pharmaceutical, insurance and defense industries and screwed the ordinary citizen.
The Trolls are sure frantic to tell us not to replace the top Neocon advocate in the Dems. Gee, I wonder why. Well, there's no one, not even Hillary or Ben Nelson, who is as palsy walsy with W. Bush, or as comfortable with PNAC as orthodox Lieberman.
We are not going to have 2 Neocon parties, period. As it stands now, even the majority of Republican voters are starting to be concerned about their principles (small govt., tough but effective foreign policy, low taxes, etc.) being sold out to a cabal of Neoidiots and Neotyrants.
We are going to purge the Neocon Lieberman. Ok, Trolls, go back to your Neocon bunkers and keep fighting WWIII from your little Lazyboy chairs and fire away with your keyboards. You're unable to win this one. But I'm sure your little appendages will get quite a workout defending the Neoflag from the Constitution and Talking Points from any kind of sense in the thing inside your heads called a brain.
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Posted by: wli on Jul 28, 2006 1:19 AM
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Grim Trigger is a trigger strategy in game theory for a repeated game, such as an iterated prisoner's dilemma. Initially, a player using Grim Trigger will cooperate, but as soon as the opponent defects (thus satisfying the trigger condition), the player using Grim Trigger will defect for the remainder of the iterated game. Since a single defect by the opponent triggers defection forever, Grim Trigger is the most strictly unforgiving of strategies in an iterated game.
In particular, the grim trigger strategy is used to penalize the triggering behavior so sternly as to make it not worthwhile to risk triggering it. Working under the assumption that elections aren't rigged (which is a rather large assumption), announcing "grim triggers" and carrying them out is meaningful.
For instance, a sufficiently large bloc of voters implementing a grim trigger about some issue would forever after defect from the Democratic or Republican parties (possibly from both via third parties or write-in votes), possibly announcing their intentions. Voting against a candidate in a primary is another possible grim trigger strategy.
Personally, I have doubts about candidate-by-candidate strategies. It appears to me that the Democrats take turns betraying their constituents, though I've yet to get properly formatted voting records to analyze voting patterns with. In my opinion, grim triggers must be whole-party affairs to be effective. For instance, a grim trigger announcement regarding CAFTA, the Alito cloture vote, and similar would've had to have been directed at the Democratic party as a whole, so a clear message that if the party as a whole doesn't achieve the result it should, mass defection to e.g. independents or third parties will occur.
In this context, namely ignoring electoral fraud and assuming party coordination of contituent-betraying votes, I have serious doubts that replacing Lieberman will have the desired effect. The odds are that the same sort of vote coordination used to average enough votes to slam through the agenda will occur. It would take a large-scale defection to motivate any change in voting patterns.
Another way to think of it is as being similar to single-issue voting, except involving multiple issues. Here if any issue "goes the wrong way," the candidate or party voting the wrong way gets defected from in perpetuity.
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» RE: grim triggers and iterated games
Posted by: doinaheckuvajob
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Posted by: Buzz on Jul 28, 2006 6:19 AM
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» RE: Ummm...
Posted by: Buzz
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Posted by: mad/as/hell on Jul 28, 2006 10:06 AM
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Let's go to Katz's Deli on the lower eastside and I'll buy you a ham and cheese on kosher rye, with a glass of milk.
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Posted by: jende on Jul 29, 2006 11:53 AM
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Posted by: nbrown on Jul 30, 2006 10:12 AM
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This is an example of the failure of electoral politics.
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» RE: Lieberman just like his fellow Democrats
Posted by: doinaheckuvajob
» RE: The failure of denouncing electoral politics and replace it with pointless whining and pie in
Posted by: doinaheckuvajob
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Posted by: doinaheckuvajob on Jul 31, 2006 1:10 AM
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and support for Bush's Dubai ports deal linked text, his consideration of support for Republican plans to destroy Social Security, his support for permananent US bases in Iraq & Neocon plans to remake the entire Middle East:
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» RE: Sorry for the double post. Please read the next one. This one was posted too soon in error.
Posted by: doinaheckuvajob
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Posted by: doinaheckuvajob on Jul 31, 2006 1:23 AM
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and support for Bush's Dubai ports deal: linked text, his consideration of support for Republican plans to destroy Social Security, his support for permananent US bases in Iraq & Neocon plans to remake the entire Middle East, and his continual pursuit of a permanent Senate seat at all costs: linked text including considering running as a Republican: linked text and here are some of Lieberman's greatest hits collection of things he has said or done counter to Dem values: linked text
No, Joe Neocon Lieberman is not like any other Democrats.
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» RE: nbrown's link to back up his claims is to some extremist blogger. Not exactly a good source,
Posted by: doinaheckuvajob
» RE: In fact, nbrown's link is to his own Blog. Some source. My dog told me that Lieberman eats pizza
Posted by: doinaheckuvajob
» RE: Lieberman is not like other Dems: Lieberman's support for keeping Terri Schiavo on feeding tubes
Posted by: doinaheckuvajob
» RE: Here's the correct link to Joementum's support for the Dubai ports deal.
Posted by: doinaheckuvajob
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Posted by: drappleby on Jul 31, 2006 3:09 AM
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Posted by: doinaheckuvajob on Jul 31, 2006 3:14 AM
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The 'conservative rich folks give more money to charity' argument is absurd. For one thing, many charity contributions are really tax shelters. For another, many are given to religious organizations with political agendas masquerading as phony charities.
Take your charity argument and shove it back into the hell from where you came from, troll.
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» RE: And where are the links to the 'facts' you claim troll? From the Weekly World News? The Onion?
Posted by: doinaheckuvajob
» RE: And where are the links to the 'facts' you claim troll? From the Weekly World News? The Onion?
Posted by: drappleby
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Posted by: drappleby on Jul 31, 2006 3:52 AM
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» RE: I don't respond to fake questions by Trolls
Posted by: doinaheckuvajob
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Posted by: doinaheckuvajob on Jul 31, 2006 3:55 AM
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The lineage of people. As if the entire US Senate wasn't descended from millionaires. Trashing Lamont won't work. JFK, FDR were trashed for being from rich families. And I bet elsewhere you post about the virtues of the rich and Ayn Rand, but here you bash them when they're liberals because you know that liberals are uncomfortable about rich politicians. Clever, but it won't work. We're on to your filthy, swift boating, nasty, down and dirty, disgusting tactics.
Why do you get some toilet paper and clean up your mouth with it, troll?
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» RE: The above post was in answer to drabbleby's post titled » RE: And where are the links to the
Posted by: doinaheckuvajob
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Posted by: drappleby on Jul 31, 2006 4:07 AM
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Posted by: drappleby on Jul 31, 2006 4:24 AM
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» RE: Is drabbleby a richboy? Is he the offspring of robberbaron Karl Rove? Is his partly inherited
Posted by: doinaheckuvajob
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Posted by: doinaheckuvajob on Jul 31, 2006 5:02 AM
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He will repeatedly assert the superiority of Rethug politicians because he claims they give more to charity out of the goodness of their sweet hearts. He is now trashing Lamont in hopes that he will cause less votes for Lamont as Lamont is a threat to the Neocon enabler Lieberman.
This troll's 'facts' are worthless, his points are pointless.
Earlier he said we should give to charities and give a list of charities. When I asked for a list of charities, he switched back the subject to Lamont bashing. Pure trolling tactic.
This troll is not interested in serious, thoughtful dialog. He's interested in a fake dialog to make his points. Point being that Lamont is a horrible rich man whose lineage and personal character are to be questioned. He doesn't address Lamont's politicial positions and proposals nor Lieberman's because he strives to sow personal distaste and hatred through character assassination. Pure Neocon trolling.
There are very few people who run for the Senate who don't have a lot of money, because it's very expensive to run. The problem is the system, not that candidates are rich, but that the system makes it hard for a non-wealthy individual to run and win. We all know that. That's an issue for discussion.
But notice the topic here in the article is Lieberman and his woes, but this Troll has diverted it to character assassinations on Lamont.
Lieberman's record for ordinary people is abysmal and hard to defend, his record of votes for the millionaires, corporations, lobbyists, DC insiders, Neocons, and rich donors is overwhelming. That's the real issue with money in politics. Because this Troll can't discuss Joe's votes nor Lamont's positions, he resorts to character assassinations on Lamont.
I don't respond to Trolls who bait me with their nonsense, and I apologize not to Trolls but to alternet readers if I went over the line in attacking the Troll with my previous comments, but I get really fed up with their behaviors.
It's time we boot out the Liebermans, who are supported by a dirty tricks political industry ruled by Rove --slimy push polls, phony attacks, all kinds of crazy stuff has happened in this race that Lieberman's campaign has engaged in, including arresting people with tickets to his events with the wrong tshirt (Bush tactics) and Trolls who character assassinate his opponent and give us 'friendly' (fire) advice on who we should vote for.
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» character assassination
Posted by: drappleby
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Posted by: drappleby on Jul 31, 2006 7:07 AM
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» RE: This troll is a huge liar. He has been here before, posting, saying Repub politicians are better
Posted by: doinaheckuvajob
» RE: This Troll can't tell a snark attack from a personal attack
Posted by: doinaheckuvajob
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Posted by: doinaheckuvajob on Jul 31, 2006 1:45 PM
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newguy...Bush puts burden on the poor and middle class
[Report this comment]
Posted by: drappleby on Jul 9, 2006 5:07 PM
newsguy, you state that.."Bush conservatives lower taxes on the rich.....putting more of a burden on the poor and middle class.." Is that really true? What IS the burden on the poor and middle class? using 2003 IRS data the top 1 % pay 34% of the taxes. the top 5 % pay 54 %. The top 10 % pay 65 % and the top 50 % pay 96.54 % of the taxes. The bottom 50 % (the poor and middle class) pay a WHOPPING 3 % of the taxes, down from 3.5 %. On the other hand who USES the tax money? Do you think the poor pay the $11,000 per child for school in Bridgeport Connecticut? Do the poor pay for their medicaid, food stamps, welfare, aid to dependent children, section 8 housing? etc etc?? Do the drug dealers, rapists and murderers in prison pay the $24,000 to incarcerate them and keep them off the streets? No, the rich, most of whom worked for their money, (very few inherited it like Sen Kennedy or Rockefeller or married it (twice) like Kerry). These people, the hated, despised rich people......pay for virtually everything in this country. Many of them trained for many years and work very hard...60 to 80 to even 100 hours a week. Maybe that's why some of them are rich. Maybe once in a while the people with their hands out for everything could show a little appreciation, cause "poor" in America is nothing like poor in the rest of the world. regards, I await the courtesy of your reply.
Interesting, how this Troll who claims in today's postings to be a friend of the poor and charity in the USA, in this posting defends the rich and craps on the poor. This troll has a long record of postings here. If somebody has a lot of time ont their hands, they can find them and verify it. The rest of you with decent memories of comments at alternet will remember his posts easily. They are always pro-Republican (except when he's called on it as he is today, so in typical Troll tactic he pretends to be an independant thinker, a nonpartisan. That's BS.), always pro-rich except for rich Democrats are the antiChrist in this Troll's postings. This troll also always makes arguments defending Republican fiscal policies and criticizing the personal finances of Democrats.
He is not nonpartisan nor objective nor looking for reasonable debate. He is trying to score points for his side, sow doubts among us about our Dem leaders. And now today he lies bigtime.
This is 100% Troll behavior. Go back to the Neocon hell you came from, Troll.
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Posted by: drappleby on Jul 31, 2006 2:05 PM
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» RE: Troll, you have lost the debate. You and your trolling are the issue.
Posted by: doinaheckuvajob
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Posted by: drappleby on Jul 31, 2006 2:16 PM
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» RE: Anyone can google this guy's postings here. I have provided an example already. Anyone with a
Posted by: doinaheckuvajob
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