COMMENTS: 244
Did Israel Attack the U.N. 'Accidentally on Purpose'?
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It is reminiscent of the trouble his predecessor Boutros Boutros-Ghali got himself into last time the Israelis tried shock and awe on Lebanon back in 1996, when he failed to suppress a report that said pretty much the same thing about the IDF shelling of the U.N. post in Qana, which macerated some 106 Lebanese civilians to death.
It is worth remembering that of all U.N. secretaries-general, Annan has done the most to end Israel's isolation in the organization and maintained the closest relations with Israel's friends in the United States. In the end, however, he is also a secretary-general who sets great store by protecting U.N. staff, and so the palpable anger of his statement is entirely understandable.
"This coordinated artillery and aerial attack on a long-established and clearly marked U.N. post at Khiyam occurred despite personal assurances given to me by Prime Minister Ehud Olmert that U.N. positions would be spared Israeli fire. Furthermore, Gen. Alain Pellegrino, the U.N. force commander in southern Lebanon, had been in repeated contact with Israeli officers throughout the day on Tuesday, stressing the need to protect that particular U.N. position from attack."
So to accept it was yet another accident presupposes a level of incompetence or insubordination in the Israeli army that should result in some serious courts-martial but never does. That feeling was doubtless exacerbated when the IDF shelled the site and prevented a rescue operation.
So what could be the motive? It is clear that there are many in the IDF with a profound contempt for the United Nations and all it stands for, and who would not shed many tears at such an accident. It may also rankle that UNIFIL has, with the dearth of Western reporters in much of southern Lebanon, provided independent corroboration of many incidents of IDF attacks on civilians. One only has to think of the fate of the USS Liberty in 1967 for being in a position to observe what the IDF was up to when the Israelis bombed and shelled an American ship for over an hour, killing 34 American sailors and wounding 170 more.
And most sinisterly of all, there are many Israelis -- including the government only a few days ago, who do not want an international force between them and their targets in Lebanon, who would have no great scruples about bombing a U.N. compound "accidentally on purpose."
This time, the "collateral damage" is not just four dead U.N. personnel. The bombing scotches any realistic chance of a reinforced U.N. or multinational peacekeeping force -- which it is worth remembering that Israel itself opposed until a few days ago, and which the war party in Israel sees as a potential obstacle to its attempts to emulate Ariel Sharon's disastrous invasion in 1982. (See the Israeli peace group Gush Shalom's ad in Ha-Aretz at the end of the article.)
Already, while many countries have endorsed the general idea of putting foreign troops on the Lebanese side of the border, there has been a complete lack of specific volunteers -- for the understandable reasons that the attack on Khiyam now so forcibly demonstrates.
Third-world militaries like the Fijians and Ghanaians make lots of money out of providing peacekeepers for UNIFIL and seem to think weekly humiliation by the Israelis and Hezbollah is worth it. There are few serious military powers that would tolerate sending their troops for IDF target practice, let alone Hezbollah attacks. And who knows? If any were so bold as to put in contingents, they may well stand up to Israeli incursions as well.
Some Israel supporters are already arguing that the bombing could not have been deliberate because it was a public relations disaster for Israel. Excuse me, but only an American or Israeli commentator could say that. Manifestly, for the rest of the world, the whole Israeli campaign is a PR disaster, with massive majorities even in Blair's Britain regarding the Israeli attack as a massively disproportionate reaction, let alone how Israel's assault is turning Hezbollah into the toast of the Third World. There is some added piquancy that both the Lebanese and Iraqi prime ministers (until this week at least champions of the democratic "New Middle East") are condemning Israel's assault.
Condoleezza Rice's statement that it is "too early" for a ceasefire, when only 500 were dead and countless more dismembered, should go down with Madeleine Albright's since regretted statement that the death of hundreds of thousands of Iraqi children as a result of sanctions was "a price worth paying."
Since Annan is already going at the end of year, which puts him beyond reach of Bolton's veto, we can but hope that he will not be browbeaten by Rice, Bolton or Bush, but will use the sacrifice of the U.N. observers to shame the Security Council into demanding an immediate ceasefire.
And who knows, while he is still angry, he may wish to remind them that Israel was defying Resolution 242 for many decades before Resolution 1559, and that it has to be a crucial foundation for any peace settlement for the region.
1982 and 2006, side by side
THEN: The war was prepared well in advance.
THIS TIME: The same.
THEN: We went to war only to protect "the Peace of Galilee".
THIS TIME: We go to war to protect Haifa and Afula, too.
THEN: We waited for a provocation (the attempt on the life of Ambassador Argov).
THIS TIME: We waited for a provocation (the capture of two soldiers).
THEN: "We shall advance only 40 KM in order to eliminate the Katyushas."
THIS TIME: "We shall advance only a few kilometers in order to eliminate the rockets."
THEN: Sharon acted behind the back of the cabinet.
THIS TIME: Olmert-Peretz-Halutz act behind the back of the ministers.
THEN: We destroyed Lebanon.
THIS TIME: We are destroying Lebanon.
THEN: Only the PLO profited from the war. A few years later they returned to Palestine.
THIS TIME: Only Hezbollah will profit from the war. Their prestige in the Arab world increases every day.
THEN: We were stuck in the quagmire for 18 years.
THIS TIME: How long shall we be stuck?
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Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Jul 26, 2006 11:12 PM
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Nothing Good Can Come from This War
Is Beirut Burning?
By URI AVNERY
Tel Aviv.
(excerpt)
"Now it is not a secret anymore: this war has been planned for a long time. The military correspondents proudly reported this week that the army has been exercising for this war in all its details for several years. Only a month ago, there was a large war game to rehearse the entrance of land forces into South Lebanon - at a time when both the politicians and the generals were declaring that "we shall never again get into the Lebanon quagmire. We shall never again introduce land forces there." Now we are in the quagmire, and large land forces are operating in the area.
The other side, too, has been preparing this war for years. Not only did they build caches of thousands of missiles, but they have also prepared an elaborate system of Vietnam-style bunkers, tunnels and caves. Our soldiers are now encountering this system and paying a high price. As always, our army has treated "the Arabs" with disdain and discounted their military capabilities.
That is one of the problems of the military mentality. Talleyrand was not wrong when he said that "war is much too serious a thing to be left to military men." The mentality of the generals, resulting from their education and profession, is by nature force-oriented, simplistic, one-dimensional, not to say primitive. It is based on the belief that all problems can be solved by force, and if that does not work - then by more force.
That is well illustrated by the planning and execution of the current war. This was based on the assumption that if we cause terrible suffering to the population, they will rise up and demand the removal of Hizbullah. A minimal understanding of mass psychology would suggest the opposite. The killing of hundreds of Lebanese civilians, belonging to all the ethno-religious communities, the turning of the lives of the others into hell, and the destruction of the life-supporting infrastructure of Lebanese society will arouse a groundswell of fury and hatred - against Israel, and not against the heroes, as they see them, who sacrifice their lives in their defense"
So - it looks like Israel is doing the same idiotic things in Lebanon that the US did in Iraq - "shock and awe" didn't have the effect Rummy hoped for - yes, "mistakes were made". Mea culpa - and too bad about all them dead folks. Somehow, I don't think the Iraqis or the Lebanese are going to 'get over it' anytime soon. What do they call this? Blowback? Pissing into the wind? FUBAR?
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» RE: Why not listen to what an Israeli has to say?
Posted by: cold2touch
» RE: Why not listen to what an Israeli has to say?
Posted by: yellow
» Pitiful responses
Posted by: thoughtcriminal
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Posted by: lordzombie on Jul 27, 2006 1:22 AM
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JERUSALEM - Shrapnel from an Israeli artillery shell was extracted from a young Palestinian wounded in a deadly Gaza beachfront explosion earlier this month, an Israeli television report said Monday.
The privately-owned Channel 10 report cited medical sources whose findings contradicted Israel's official version of events that the explosion which killed eight Palestinian civilians was not caused by Israeli artillery.
The shrapnel was removed from a 12-year-old boy who was wounded on the beach on June 9 and then transported to a hospital in southern Israel for medical treatment, it said.
Governments lie, they have always lied, and they always will. whether jew or gentile.
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» RE: come on man, the whole "thats anti semitic!!" reaction is SOO 2003
Posted by: yellow
» RE: come on man, the whole "thats anti semitic!!" reaction is SOO 2003
Posted by: yellow
» RE: come on man, the whole "thats anti semitic!!" reaction is SOO 2003
Posted by: yellow
» RE: come on man, the whole "thats anti semitic!!" reaction is SOO 2003
Posted by: erknight@optusnet.com.au
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Posted by: Colin on Jul 27, 2006 1:23 AM
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Now, clearly there is no evidence that it was deliberate. But then, given the nature of military orders - i.e. me shouting at you to do something - and the fact that the levels of beurocracy are refreshingly small (ironic given it's the one industry where completing everything in triplicate would be beneficial for everyone), exactly what kind of proof do you think you will find?
Besides, if it's not deliberate then, given the details stated in my first paragraph, clearly they are far too incompetent to manage such dangerous munitions.
PS Your racist undertones honestly turned my stomach.
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Posted by: Sundaymonkey on Jul 27, 2006 1:29 AM
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For the record:
The IDF knew exactly where that UN bunker was. It's been there for years. It's on the maps.
The UN observers sheltering in it contacted the IDF 10 times to tell them that they were being shelled. 10 times the IDF responded that they were very sorry and it wouldn't happen again.
The Irish officer appointed as liason between the UN force and the IDF forces on the ground doing the shelling contacted the attackers 6 times to tell them that they were targetting unarmed observers.
The IDF stoped shelling the bunker with mortars, and instead sent a guided missile right through the bunker's viewport to kill everyone inside.
But there's not a shred of evidence that this was done deliberately.
Like I said. Remarkable.
Oh, and not to put too fine a point on it. The only people claiming that a Palestinian mine, rather than Israeli shelling, was responsible for the murder of that family on Gaza beach are the Israeli military and Government spokesmen. After initially apologising, they held a really, really quick 'investigation' and concluded, oh so very conveniently, that it was those evil Palestinians who did it.
Needless to say, everyone else who has gone to the trouble of actually visiting the site and investigating the damage has concluded that it wasn't a mine, it was a shell fired from an Israeli gunship, at civillians, which is a war-crime.
But please, don't let the facts mess with that spaced-out little head of yours. You were getting off on screaming "Jew Hater!!!!" into the faces of everyone who lacks your Pavlovian response to Israeli war-crimes. Knock yourself out, just don't make the mistake of thinking that there's anyone with eyes to see and ears with which to hear who can fail to understand exactly where you're coming from.
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» You were fast to prove me right!
Posted by: thinkprogress
» RE: You were fast to prove me right!
Posted by: Sanballot
» RE: What a lying sack of s**t you are
Posted by: yellow
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Posted by: Robinhio on Jul 27, 2006 1:55 AM
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http://billmon.org/archives/002568.html
If you let killers investigate themselves how often do you reckon they'll find themselves guilty ?
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Posted by: aurora2484 on Jul 27, 2006 2:00 AM
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This time, via the Internet, we are able to hear, see and feel the anguish of our brother and sister human beings, - to feel with them the incomprehensibility of such acts in the 21st century.
This time there is a sense of the entire levelling of cities and towns and those who dwell there, as being of no consequence to the machine-minds guiding the process along the inexorable route to the next stage of their "game".
www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/
10962352/iran_the_next_war
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Posted by: superdan on Jul 27, 2006 2:23 AM
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Short synopsis:
Israel was shooting at Hezbollah emplacements that were very close to the U.N. base. They tried to prove how accurate they were, and succeeded for 7 days. Then they screwed up.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/7/27/12626/3982
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» UN Backs off accusing Israel
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» Be Honest
Posted by: Vani
» RE: Be Honest
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Be Honest - YOU HACKED MY LINK
Posted by: Vani
» Vani is losing it...
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Be Honest - A real reply, not garbage
Posted by: Vani
» RE: Be Honest - A real reply, not garbage
Posted by: blitzmesser
» People in black Coats!!
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» Get out of the terrorists vs Good guys mindset, idiot.
Posted by: superdan
» RE: Get out of the terrorists vs Good guys mindset, idiot.
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Get out of the terrorists vs Good guys mindset, idiot.
Posted by: billfaster
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Posted by: thinkprogress on Jul 27, 2006 3:22 AM
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From today's NY SUN.
http://www.nysun.com/article/36860?page_no=1
A Canadian U.N. observer, one of four killed at a UNIFIL position near the southern Lebanese town of Khiyam on Tuesday, sent an e-mail to his former commander, a Canadian retired major-general, Lewis MacKenzie, in which he wrote that Hezbollah fighters were "all over" the U.N. position, Mr. MacKenzie said. Hezbollah troops, not the United Nations, were Israel's target, the deceased observer wrote.
Hess-von Kruedener wrote about heavy IDF artillery and aerial bombardment "within 2 meters of our position." The Israeli shooting, he added, "has not been deliberate targeting, but has rather been due to tactical necessity."
Mr. MacKenzie, who once commanded the U.N. troops in Bosnia, told the CBC. "What he was telling us was Hezbollah fighters were all over his position and the IDF were targeting them, and that's a favorite trick by people who don't have representation in the U.N. They use the U.N. as shields knowing that they cannot be punished for it."
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» RE: UPDATE - UN soldier from bombed post said Hezbollah fighters were "all over" the U.N. position
Posted by: IanA
» "You'll hit us, warned UN staff" - Chulov, Beirut
Posted by: aurora2484
» UN "soldier" sent those Emails several days ago.
Posted by: Vani
» RE: UPDATE - UN soldier's wife blames Israel (NOT Hezbollah) for his death
Posted by: cold2touch
» RE: UPDATE - UN soldier from bombed post said Hezbollah fighters were "all over" the U.N. position
Posted by: tellitasitis
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Posted by: aurora2484 on Jul 27, 2006 3:38 AM
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During a daylong debate, council members made numerous changes to a text put forward by China, which lost one of the four officers killed in the attack.
Their patience ran out when Washington demanded the deletion of language condemning "any deliberate attack against U.N. personnel."
Qatar, the council's sole Arab member, then said it needed time to consult with its government overnight, and the deliberations adjourned until Thursday morning. A policy statement needs the approval of all 15 council members.
China's U.N. ambassador, Wang Guangya, called for a strong statement of condemnation after an Israeli air attack destroyed the U.N. post in southern Lebanon on Tuesday, killing peacekeepers from Austria, Canada, China and Finland.
The attack prompted U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan to ask Israel to investigate what he termed the "apparently deliberate targeting" of the U.N. observer post.
Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert, while expressing "deep sorrow" over the deaths and agreeing to an investigation, voiced shock at the suggestion the attack was deliberate.
Wang acknowledged it was important to preserve council unity but said the council had to show its concern for the safety of U.N. peacekeepers.
Asked whether the U.S. position might affect China's attitude toward American efforts for a resolution on Iran's nuclear program, now under negotiation, Wang indicated there might be some spillover.
"I think that all members will reflect, on what lessons, if there are any, (can be) learned from this episode," Wang said.
China's initial draft called for an immediate end to the fighting in Lebanon and referred to the "apparently deliberate targeting" of the U.N. troops by Israel.
U.S. Ambassador John Bolton said there was no evidence the attack was deliberate, and Wang agreed to take out the two phrases at a very early stage.
Hours later, U.S. envoy Molly Phee said the United States wanted language deleted expressing the council's condemnation of "any deliberate attack against U.N. personnel."
Phee filled in for Bolton who was in Washington preparing for a Senate confirmation hearing on Thursday on his nomination as U.N. ambassador.
(Additional reporting by Evelyn Leopold)
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» RE: Attacking anyone, anywhere is ok. Condemning that, is not on. url/author
Posted by: aurora2484
» RE: Attacking anyone, anywhere is ok. Condemning that, is not on.
Posted by: HeroesAll
» RE: Attacking anyone, anywhere is ok. Condemning that, is not on.
Posted by: aurora2484
» The Right Rant!
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» YOU don't get it - KNOCK OFF the condescending, demeaning attitude
Posted by: russianblue1
» russianblue1 can spell, but knows little else!
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» Anyone else agree with Conservasaurus about my "sorry state"?
Posted by: russianblue1
» RE: Anyone else agree with Conservasaurus about my "sorry state"?
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» Not true
Posted by: russianblue1
» RE: Not true
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Anyone else agree with Conservasaurus about my "sorry state"?
Posted by: marklar
» RE: russianblue1 can spell, but knows little else!
Posted by: marklar
» RE: russianblue1 can spell, but knows little else!
Posted by: tellitasitis
» World Peace Efforts Must Not Be Derailed
Posted by: Vani
» RE: Attacking anyone, anywhere is ok. Condemning that, is not on.
Posted by: itchyvet
» and now, World 'backs Lebanon Offensive'
Posted by: aurora2484
» RE: and now, World 'backs Lebanon Offensive'
Posted by: marklar
» RE: and now, World 'backs Lebanon Offensive'
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: and now, World 'backs Lebanon Offensive'
Posted by: marklar
» RE: and now, World 'backs Lebanon Offensive'
Posted by: Conservasaurus
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Posted by: Far Sight on Jul 27, 2006 4:27 AM
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I criticise Uzbekistan for the torture and abuse it causes. Does this prove some racial bias on my part?
I criticise many countries for the pain and damage they cause. For disproportionate actions, for people killed needlessly and for people suffering who need not suffer. Israel is one of these countries - the fact that they have a large jewish population does not make them immune to such criticism or from people being angered and saddened by their actions.
By using the anti-semiticism charge you help no-one but the anti-semites. You rob the term of all meaning and give the REAL anti-semites a smoke screen to work behind. When a real bigoted, vile anmti-semite speaks up and we label him as what he is it means nothing - because you have destroyed the term anti-semite, you have abused and misused the term by flinging it around carelessly and rendered it useless in labelling those who truly spout hate.
I am sure the neo-nazis and their ilk thank you, but it would be short sighted of any Jew or Israeli to do so.
Far Sight
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» RE: Since when has a Jew hater ever needed proof?
Posted by: VannaLaRoche
» RE: Since when has a Jew hater ever needed proof?
Posted by: RisaQ
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Posted by: HeroesAll on Jul 27, 2006 4:30 AM
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This is just such tired, old, shabby propaganda. You're slipping, thinkprogress. They could have used you in World War II, either the British or the Germans. Both were fond of demonising the enemy using two-dimensional caricatures, in order to inflame hatred and stiffen resolve. Been going on for over a century, actually.
So please take your 19th century agit-prop somewhere where the folks are more likely to appreciate it. Although I can't imagine where that is. If you wish to join the adults here, then learn to discuss issues using skills such as reasoning and logic.
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Posted by: Arvy on Jul 27, 2006 4:50 AM
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SectionID=107&ItemID=10643
As usual link has been split to permit posting it.
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» Israel has long-standing reputation of doing this sorts of things
Posted by: Bobsays
» Ramblings
Posted by: Conservasaurus
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Posted by: numen on Jul 27, 2006 5:14 AM
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» RE: They shoot witnesses, don't they?
Posted by: Rolomax
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Posted by: marklar on Jul 27, 2006 5:26 AM
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America First! I am not an Israeli and I do not support my taxdollars going to fund Israel and its wars of Occupation and agression. I do not want Israeli agents in AIPAC spying on my country. I do not want U.S. politicians turning as blind eye to the crimes against humanity that our military commits in Iraq or that Israel commits in Lebanon or against the Palestinians. We are not Nazi Germany. Speak up!
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» RE: Isaeal is no friend to the U.S.A - I agree
Posted by: Vani
» RE: Isaeal is no friend to the U.S.A - I agree
Posted by: davewuxi
» RE: Isaeal is no friend to the U.S.A
Posted by: symcokid
» RE: Isaeal is no friend to the U.S.A
Posted by: marklar
» RE: Isaeal is no friend to the U.S.A.... RESPONSE
Posted by: phillyreikimaster
» RE: Isaeal is no friend to the U.S.A.... RESPONSE
Posted by: DoorsFan1313
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Posted by: solrev on Jul 27, 2006 5:34 AM
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» RE: Sit happens
Posted by: maestra
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Posted by: tashi on Jul 27, 2006 5:36 AM
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Zionists have been using the charge of antisemitism to supress any logical criticism of policies of the Apartheid colony of Israel in the main stream media...Fortunately the more these charges are thrown around the less credible they become!
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» RE: people use "jew Hater" when they have no credible footing to stand on
Posted by: marklar
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Posted by: wdzeller on Jul 27, 2006 6:06 AM
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First, back in the 1960's, the Progressives ( some used to call them Yankees, later communists!) decided that all Southern People specifically the whites were all racists, and needed to be told so. Hmmmm, I wonder why the South went from being a Democrat stronghold to one of nearly total Republican dominance? Howard Dean certainly couldn't figure it out, ever since he made his comment down South where he basically said," it ain't about God, guns and gays" and got booed by the crowd.
Then, in the early 1980's the Progressives decided that since the evangelical Christians were voicing their opposition of their tax dollars being used to fund the very abortions that they found abhorent, that they must be held up before all to see with the most virulent contempt, and smeared in the Progressive press with anecdotes such as, " Those people are really closeted sex fiends and child molesters!" Funny, ain't it? Before 1980, the voting demographics of the evangelical Christians were similar to the rest of the U.S. population; that is, no political party held a "lock" on their votes. Well that sure isn't true anymore, is it?
Now, turn to 2006 and the Progressives are spewing forth a very old sort of venom wrapped up in new garb against another of their constituency groups. That old venom is no less than anti-semitism, and the current group is no less than American Jews. All I can say boys is keep it up! When the Jews take their votes and their very lush campaign contributions over to the Republican Party, the Democrat Party will be totally fucked!
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» RE: Progressives are sooooooo smart!
Posted by: lively56
» RE: Progressives are sooooooo smart!
Posted by: wdzeller
» Giw us ut Anti Semitic?
Posted by: Vani
» The score or so of 'Jews' I know
Posted by: owlbear1
» RE: Time for Pro-Israeli Americans to put up or shut up
Posted by: marklar
» RE: Progressives are sooooooo smart!
Posted by: yellow
Comments are closed-
Posted by: russianblue1 on Jul 27, 2006 6:07 AM
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Damn, you need to get a girlfriend, boyfriend, inflatable doll, or WHATEVER gets you off to keep you occupied at midnight instead of pounding out facsist, neocon remarks on your computer keyboard. I, for one, (and I'm sure the rest of the posters on Alternet) would appreciate it if you could release some of that tension that comes (no pun intended!) screaming out of your EVERY comment. I got an idea! Give Frankenfurter a call - he'll help you "relieve your sexual tensions". ;)
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Posted by: Arvy on Jul 27, 2006 6:13 AM
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"This week I had the pleasure to appear on American radio, on the Laura Ingraham show, pitted against David Horowitz, a “Semite supremacist” who most recently made his name under the banner of Campus Watch, leading McCarthyite witch-hunts against American professors who have the impertinence to suggest that maybe, just maybe, Arabs have minds and feelings like the rest of us.
It was a revealing experience, at least for a British journalist rarely exposed to the depths of ignorance and prejudice in the United States on Middle East matters -- well, apart from the regular whackos who fill my email in-tray. But five minutes of listening to Horowitz speak, and the sympathy with which his arguments were greeted by Laura (“The Professors -- your book’s a great read, David”), left me a lot more frightened about the world’s future."
Full article by Jonathan Cook at:
http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?
SectionID=107&ItemID=10643
As usual link has been split to permit posting it.
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» RE: 5 Israeli Myths
Posted by: marklar
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Posted by: russianblue1 on Jul 27, 2006 6:19 AM
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Russianblue1: Some of the sites listed below have reporting on them that is older than the June 13th date in the CNN story you cite. Also, the CNN story you cite, in the second paragraph, states "However, in Gaza, the group Human Rights Watch said the evidence it has been able to gather suggests that a 155 mm artillery shell, like the type used by the Israeli military, was responsible." As investigations move forward, you must take the new evidence and adjust your opinion.
usatoday.com/news/world/2006-06-14-gaza-blast_x.htm
thinkprogress response: You can take the word of the terrorist animals who strap bombs to their children and believe you get 72 virgins for killing Jews if you would like.
But is is pretty amazing they 'knew' it was an israeli shell seconds after it occured. Must be the power of Allah.
Personally, I thought it was pretty funny he labels USA Today a "terrorist animal"!!!
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» HRW links to back that
Posted by: brunowe
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Posted by: aurora2484 on Jul 27, 2006 6:24 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The vehicles were "clearly marked by the medical emblem and flashing lights that were visible at a great distance."
www.antiwar.com/glantz/?articleid=9410
www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/
0,21985,19918297-5005961,00.html
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» RE: Ambulances targeted (and other relief efforts)
Posted by: i.R.i
» Huffington Post TROLL
Posted by: russianblue1
» RE: Huffington Post TROLL
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» Thank you for responding with civility
Posted by: russianblue1
» RE: Thank you for responding with civility
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Huffington Post TROLL
Posted by: marklar
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Thorrific on Jul 27, 2006 6:36 AM
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Ignorant people need to google "King David Hotel" , "Lavon Affair" , and "USS Liberty".
Those sure are some incredible (meaning : not credible) allies that the USA and Britian have in Zionist Israel!!!!
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» Stormfront Troll
Posted by: i.R.i
» NeoCon Troll
Posted by: russianblue1
» russianblue1 tries for TROLL status!
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» I'll ignore this
Posted by: russianblue1
» RE: Stormfront Troll
Posted by: Thorrific
» RE: Stormfront Troll
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» that is a really lame attempt to deny reality
Posted by: Thorrific
» RE: that is a really lame attempt to deny reality
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: that is a really lame attempt to deny reality
Posted by: Thorrific
» RE: that is a really lame attempt to deny reality
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: that is a really lame attempt to deny reality
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: that is a really lame attempt to deny reality
Posted by: Thorrific
» RE: that is a really lame attempt to deny reality
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: that is a really lame attempt to deny reality
Posted by: Thorrific
» RE: that is a really lame attempt to deny reality
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: that is a really lame attempt to deny reality
Posted by: Thorrific
» RE: that is a really lame attempt to deny reality
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: that is a really lame attempt to deny reality
Posted by: Thorrific
» RE: that is a really lame attempt to deny reality
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» manufacturing anti-semites
Posted by: cold2touch
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Posted by: srqwolf on Jul 27, 2006 7:00 AM
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I am as guilty as anyone here of falling prey to the tempation to whack them verbally. But, they cannot be reasoned with, are impervious to argument, tone-deaf to either moral suation or ridicule. They just want to provoke someone into an angry response that they will then hold up as evidence of anti-Semitism. I say - let them stew in their own lubricant.
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» RE: A Master Baiter
Posted by: Sundaymonkey
» RE: A Master Baiter
Posted by: marklar
» "Please don't feed the trolls"
Posted by: Crazy H
» RE: Precisely my point
Posted by: cold2touch
Comments are closed-
Posted by: xbj on Jul 27, 2006 7:08 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Whether or not someone, in all good conscience, can accept the fascist unilateral genocidal actions of "their" government, and all the utter bullshit and lies those governments spew and millions they spend to by the mass media to convince people of those lies and bullshit that war is necessary and killing is OK "because the other side started it first."
BOTH governments of the US and Israel are fascist: BOTH governments of the US and Israel start and fight moneyminting wars of conquest for their economies and economic windfall for the elite; BOTH governments of the US and Israel attack their own people to mobilize the population for their endless wars against an enemy that can never be won, "terrorism", because each attack creates more enemy EXPONENTIALLY. It's not about ending terrorism and forging peace; it's about RAPING MONEY FROM TAXPAYERS in an ENDLESS SCAM.
Both governments of the US and Israel are not democratically elected governments, but are run by military/offense contracting cabals that merely revolve puppet leaders with the real power being concentrated in secondary and tertiary offices, that control the vote through HACKED VOTING TALLIES.
The US and Israel ARE the Nazi Germany and Italy of today, only with a differnet target, and more power and firepower than those countries could ever have dreamed of in their wildest, sickest imaginations. And with a more horrific goal than merely taking over the world: TO NEVER WIN THEIR WARS, BUT NOT LOSE THEM EITHER; JUST HAVE THE GRAVY TRAIN of DEATH AND DESTRUCTION OF INNOCENT PEOPLE GO ON INDEFINITELY.
And no, the Israeli people are no more responsible for the fascist actions of their governments than are the American people... anyone believing the 90% polls supporting Israel's current action has got mush for brains, because their polls are even more rigged than US polls.
So let's stop infighting amongst ourselves. The enemy is not Hamas, or Hezbollah, nor "the vast Jewish conspiracy", nor THE INNNOCENT MEN, WOMEN, AND CHILDREN OF LEBANON.
The enemy is our own governments; let us NEVER FORGET THIS AND STAND TOGETHER AGAINST THEM.
How do we do this without impossible-to-win revolution?
Not terrorism of our own. Terrorism plays right into the enemy's hands, allowing their endless crusade to go on forever.
No, by taking a page from Ghandi. BY LAYING DOWN ALL OUR ARMS, EVERY LAST ONE OF US, AND REFUSING TO KILL.
EVER.
If we do not do this, mark my words; these bastards WILL END THE WORLD, and far sooner than anyone thinks POSSIBLE.
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» RE: nough infighting already!
Posted by: lively56
» Plowshares into Swords
Posted by: i.R.i
» RE: Plowshares into Swords
Posted by: IanA
» Funny
Posted by: russianblue1
» RE: Plowshares into Swords
Posted by: xbj
» RE: Plowshares into Swords
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Plowshares into Swords
Posted by: cold2touch
» RE: Plowshares into Swords
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Plowshares into Swords
Posted by: xbj
» RE: nough infighting already!
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: nough infighting already!
Posted by: xbj
» RE: nough infighting already!
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: nough infighting already!
Posted by: marklar
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Posted by: bogglesthemind on Jul 27, 2006 8:28 AM
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» RE: Since when has a Jew hater ever needed proof?
Posted by: gazooks
» RE: Since when has a Jew hater ever needed proof?
Posted by: Sundaymonkey
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Posted by: darby1936 on Jul 27, 2006 8:54 AM
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» RE: darby19366
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: The War Tapes - a movie playing now, see it
Posted by: marklar
» I think that is the whole point of the conflict.
Posted by: Pepper
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Posted by: Joe Ox on Jul 27, 2006 9:40 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Sadly, due to their over arching "never shoot anyone for any reason, including a Rwandan literally in mid machete mayhem covered in the blood of children" (the preceding in actual verbage from the Rwanda mandate) they didn't even know they were involved.
The UN has declared the battle a victory, because even though suffering a 100% casualty rate, the UN troops did not stray from their orders one iota, proving to the world that no matter what, they are duty bound and honorable above all else.
In other news, Kofi Annan (known by UN subordinates as "Coffee On Him"...meant of course in a clear jest about his name and fully rejecting any racial interpretations-this is documentably true lest you berate me for inventing it)
has declared that the UN will respond to the horrific act by the Israelis with proportionate force. He said "Doggon it, we are going to, going to, ohhh, we are gonna get really mad and I may even say so at a press conference". Later after a cooling off period suggested by the benevolent leaders of Myanmar and Cambodia, the Secretary General decided that response was disproportionate to the act perpetrated and he remained calm and quiet.
Kofi has recalled several middle managers from Africa, one suffering minor injuries after being pryed off a child with a crowbar.
It gets worse....
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Posted by: Disputo on Jul 27, 2006 11:27 AM
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» RE: Stop the hate mongers
Posted by: Sundaymonkey
» RE: Stop the hate mongers
Posted by: aurora2484
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Posted by: Thorrific on Jul 27, 2006 11:34 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
2. I am not a Stormfront nazi or a white supremacist. However, your squealings of "anti-semite" or "nazi" do not bother me at all. I am not an "anti-semite" (an abuse of the real definition of semite, since arabs are semites too), and apolagists for Israel are damaging their own position by calling everyone who criticizes their behaviour a Nazi or an "anti-semite". If they keep it up, they will make "anti-semite" a respectable term. That said, I am not a "philo-semite" either. Israelis and Jews are just humans like everyone else, and most of the time humans are just plain assholes.
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Posted by: srqwolf on Jul 27, 2006 11:46 AM
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» this is what WE ALL have become - monstrous, barbaric
Posted by: aurora2484
» RE: this is what WE ALL have become - monstrous, barbaric
Posted by: aurora2484
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Posted by: Vani on Jul 27, 2006 11:52 AM
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» RE: Since when has a Jew hater ever needed proof? To ThinkProgress
Posted by: Sundaymonkey
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Posted by: Sundaymonkey on Jul 27, 2006 11:59 AM
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And the sick thing is, the more they misuse it to try and stiffle debate, the weaker it becomes. Calling someone an "anti-semite" should actually mean something. In the mouths of these jokers, it just becomes another groundless slur that can be brushed off with an angry snarl.
Give it a few posts and they'll be claiming that 'The Left' deliberately de-legitimised the term by complaining about it so much.
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Posted by: hotlipsin61 on Jul 27, 2006 12:10 PM
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Israel has understimated Hezbollah, whose weaponry was purchased from Russia, France, England and the United States. And we all know where Israel's arms came from. (Hint: NOT from Wal-Mart.)
The world is powerless to stop this macabre.
As the old saying goes-"an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind."
No one is willing to send peacekeeping troops into no-man's land to act as target practice between the two factions. The USA surely won't , because of what happened in 1982. We're tied down in Iraq.
So who will stop the fighting? We might as well sit on the sidelines until both Lebanon and Israel all kill each other. I hope this will not occur.
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» RE: Powerless - must be.
Posted by: symcokid
» RE: Powerless They Were NOt
Posted by: Vani
» RE: Powerless
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» Arabs in France
Posted by: Vani
» RE: Arabs in France
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Arabs in France
Posted by: blitzmesser
» RE: Arabs in France
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Powerless
Posted by: babs
» BABS - Powerless
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» wow.
Posted by: harris
» RE: wow.
Posted by: Conservasaurus
Comments are closed-
Posted by: thinkprogress on Jul 27, 2006 1:13 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is a war crime to use human shields.
Read for yourselves:
http://www.nysun.com/article/36860?page_no=1
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» Using human shields nothing new for animals.
Posted by: thinkprogress
» RE: Using human shields nothing new for animals.
Posted by: babs
» RE: Facts bite Jew haters in the butt - Hezbollah was using UN soldiers at post as human shields!
Posted by: beachy
» RE: Facts bite Jew haters in the butt - Hezbollah was using UN soldiers at post as human shields!
Posted by: Vani
» RE: Facts bite Jew haters in the butt - Hezbollah was using UN soldiers at post as human shields!
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» Ignorance is Contagious
Posted by: Vani
» Ignorance is Contagious cont
Posted by: Vani
» RE: Ignorance is Contagious Post 2
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Ignorance is Contagious Post 2
Posted by: blitzmesser
» RE: Ignorance is Contagious Post 2
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Ignorance is Contagious - Post 1
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» US Response
Posted by: russianblue1
» News that supports my above contention
Posted by: russianblue1
» RE: US Response
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» Vani, some are animals
Posted by: Joe Ox
» RE: Vani, some are animals
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» Conserv.
Posted by: Joe Ox
» RE: Conserv.
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Conserv.
Posted by: blitzmesser
» RE: Conserv.
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» not an urban legend.
Posted by: Joe Ox
» RE: Vani, some are animals
Posted by: babs
» RE: Vani, some are animals
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» May I recommend a great movie
Posted by: russianblue1
Comments are closed-
Posted by: jeffrey7 on Jul 27, 2006 2:04 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yes they killed the UN boys on purpose. Yes they want to burn the Earth, Yes their Greed makes them feel superior
and that's why they do it.
Just take joy in the fact that more of their wart coverd,wrinkle encrusted asses die on their gold covered toilets everyday,then we could make bullets for.
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Posted by: sofla100 on Jul 27, 2006 2:27 PM
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Posted by: Basenjis on Jul 27, 2006 3:32 PM
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Posted by: Againstthewindwalking on Jul 27, 2006 5:18 PM
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It seems that Isreali military personel have this odd condition that makes them think that rocket propeled ordinance has no detrimental effect on human life! Obviously if it does, they feel their heartfelt ignorance of the effect of their own munitions should excuse them from any and all culpability.
By the way, "think progress", "can't-serve-asaurus", and what ever other "trolls de jour" are lurking around out there today, I'm not a "Jew hater" and I refuse to be baited into your little hate-fest!
I only speak when I have something to say! And I just said it!
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» RE: Isreal just admitted that UN post was targeted deliberatly!
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Isreal just admitted that UN post was targeted deliberatly!
Posted by: cold2touch
» RE: Isreal just admitted that UN post was targeted deliberatly!
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Isreal just admitted that UN post was targeted deliberatly!
Posted by: harris
» RE: Isreal just admitted that UN post was targeted deliberatly!
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Isreal just admitted that UN post was targeted deliberatly!
Posted by: blitzmesser
» RE: Isreal just admitted that UN post was targeted deliberatly!
Posted by: Conservasaurus
Comments are closed-
Posted by: thinkprogress on Jul 27, 2006 5:23 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
My post was respectful and followed the Alternet guidelines which I agreed to when I created my account.
It is just a matter of time before they cancel my account.
What is funny is that Alternet has a story on the frontpage about how some protesters were kicked out of a hannity event. Alternet rips them for not allowing free speech.
Well, talk about hypocrisy! LOL!!!
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» RE: Alternet Censors!!! My post was removed and it did not break the AlterNet Guidelines!!
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Alternet Censors!!! My post was removed and it did not break the AlterNet Guidelines!!
Posted by: blitzmesser
» RE: Alternet Censors!!! My post was removed and it did not break the AlterNet Guidelines!!
Posted by: thinkprogress
» RE: Alternet Censors!!! My post was removed and it did not break the AlterNet Guidelines!!
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Alternet Censors!!! My post was removed and it did not break the AlterNet Guidelines!!
Posted by: 1984NOW!!!
» RE: Alternet Censors!!! My post was removed and it did not break the AlterNet Guidelines!!
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Alternet Censors!!! My post was removed and it did not break the AlterNet Guidelines!!
Posted by: cold2touch
» RE: Alternet Censors!!! My post was removed and it did not break the AlterNet Guidelines!!
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» .NOT anti-conservative - mine removed also
Posted by: aurora2484
» RE: Alternet Censors!!! My post was removed and it did not break the AlterNet Guidelines!!
Posted by: harris
» Liberal definition of speech they don't agree with = "trash and vomit"
Posted by: thinkprogress
» RE: Alternet Censors!!! My post was removed and it did not break the AlterNet Guidelines!!
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» It's a moderated discussion forum, not censorship ...
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» Moderated discussion forum
Posted by: Joe Ox
» RE: Moderated discussion forum
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Moderated discussion forum
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Moderated discussion forum
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Moderated discussion forum
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» High Minded Debate
Posted by: Joe Ox
» RE: High Minded Debate
Posted by: Joshua Holland
Comments are closed-
Posted by: jimmiemacj on Jul 27, 2006 7:56 PM
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jmc
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Posted by: Vani on Jul 28, 2006 5:02 AM
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This is not the time for picayune bickering. This is a question of protecting the mechanisms that we have put into place to maintain and encourage World Peace. Arabs and Jews are only two peoples on a planet bustling with ethnic diversity. All ethnicities deserve a fair chance to reach their full potential. China alone has reported 2400 ethnic groups. Can we afford to focus on any one group to the detriment of another?
The Earth is 4 billion years old. Human beings are only 100 millions old. We have many, many years ahead of us together before our time together is finished. Peaceable coexistence is our only hope. We can not let the Arabs-Jew or Middle Eastern conflict undermine peacekeeping and peace-building structures that can, will and does benefit billions of human beings worldwide. Civilized people can't afford to be dominated by war and violence. We have to do everything we can to further World Peace. For the moment, the UN is our best bet. It is the only arena that by definition encourages cooperation between nations. If UN Peacekeeper and Truce Observers, who risk their lives so that all of us can attain peace, are not protected, then the entire World Peace effort is placed in jeopardy. The murder of the 4 UN employees is a heinous act which must, must, must be condemned, no matter which country is humiliated in doing so. World peace takes precedence over nationalistic chauvinism.
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» Vani, Diversity is Worthy
Posted by: Joe Ox
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Posted by: robflam on Jul 28, 2006 6:13 AM
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Posted by: sofla100 on Jul 28, 2006 8:10 AM
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Posted by: sofla100 on Jul 28, 2006 8:15 AM
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» RE: US and Israel - better PR
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: US and Israel - better PR
Posted by: sofla100
» Beheadings justified????
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Beheadings justified????
Posted by: sofla100
» RE: US and Israel - better PR
Posted by: Conservasaurus
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Reader11722 on Jul 28, 2006 12:47 PM
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Final link (before Google Books caes to gov't pressure):
America Deceived - Book
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Posted by: srqwolf on Jul 28, 2006 4:26 PM
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Posted by: sofla100 on Jul 28, 2006 7:59 PM
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Israeli soldiers are being used the same way. Fed on lies, myths of some kind of super soldier, ruined when the reality of being a baby killer hits home. How sad.
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Posted by: TKO on Jul 29, 2006 7:15 PM
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"Meanwhile, a top Israeli general said for the first time that the military had deliberately -- but accidentally -- hit a United Nations outpost Tuesday. The attack killed four unarmed peacekeepers.
Brig. Gen. Shuki Shahar, the deputy chief of the military's Northern Command, said soldiers in the field had accidentally called in the coordinates of the U.N. base and that the airstrike had been approved up the chain of command.
U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan had suggested Tuesday that the military had targeted the outpost deliberately. Israeli leaders rejected that allegation, but Shahar's initial findings indicate that the military did strike the base deliberately, even if it wasn't an intentional attempt to kill peacekeepers."
Israel deliberately but accidentally hit UN post, approved up chain of command
“no commander would deliberately target UN or civilians” according to Israeli Foreign minister
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Posted by: theBike on Jul 31, 2006 10:13 AM
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would waste a bomb on a UN post when the enemy was a stone's throw away. What's the point? Answer - there is no point and it's obviouly the last thing Israeli forces wanted to happen. The implied claim that Israel somehow gained something is shown to be patently absurd by the results of the action. I predict that logic will not prevent the anti-Semites from deducing some hidden purpose, no matter how silly it may seem. Guys flying at 600 knots on the deck always hit their targets. Sure they do.
Second question - why did Kofi Anon make loud complaints? Was it to cover up the failure of the UN to remove its non-combat observer personnel from an obviously confused battleground? The blame for any UN casualties lies squarely on the head of the "leader" who so obviously failed to protect his workers. Kofi can be considered as both a fool and a
murderer. He should have been dressed down both by the US and Britain, the only countries that don't seem to be frightened by the threats of the Arab terrorists. THe UN's leader has once again shown his true colors by criticizing Isreal for responding to a terrorist rocket attack. Sixteen days of rockets falling on Israeli soil and Kofi doesn't open his mouth. Kofi needs to be impeached and then perhaps jailed for past criminal acts. Kofi and ethics or morals is an oxymoron. He is a puppet of the Arab terrorist groups, with whom he strongly identifies.
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Posted by: attila on Jul 31, 2006 10:33 AM
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Aid to Israel, unlike quarterly aid distributed to other nations, goes in one lump to their General Fund, where they collect the interest. From there, it is increasingly used to update the world’s perhaps fourth strongest military, quell Palestinian unrest, establish or fortify segregated settlements, and build walls and private Israeli roads. To many world citizens, this use of American tax dollars is seen in its kindest terms as “segregation.”
Using America’s history to end generations of Israel Palestine bloodshed
The spiraling of worldwide terror emanates from Holy Land hatreds. America’s history offers the graceful answer.
The CIVIL RIGHTS ACT OF 1964 (CRA) empowered the United States to:
• Prevent discrimination in federally assisted programs.”
It didn’t end discrimination. It needed to rely on another tool.
The BROWN V. BOARD OF EDUCATION CASE OF 1954 (BBE) legislated:
• "Separate educational facilities are inherently unequal."
While these acts were taking hold in the 1950s & 60s, we grew a literate middle class that schooled and played together to eradicate the too prevalent diseases of narrow mindedness, bigotry, and racial violence.
How can America help end generations of Israeli Palestinian bloodshed, growing fundamentalist antipathy, spiraling terror, and make the world safer and smarter?
In Palestine, there is one university, in Israel 8. In 2001 about 50,000 Palestinian students could not get to school, at least 3 schools were occupied by Israeli soldiers and turned into military camps; over 2,000 students were injured and 137 killed on their way to or from school; many schools had no or few textbooks. The Director of Libraries for Peace says not one library functions in Palestine. In 2006, the situation has not improved.
The world needs an administration that attaches our nation’s healthy history to our economic exchanges with Israel and Palestine.
Image how much safer the next generation would be hearing these words from an American President:
“Kids who school, play, and grow together don’t throw stones or bombs at each other. Kids who hang out together erase dangerous ignorances and hatreds. Instead, they build their nation’s vitality, economy, and character.
“Today we call on Israel and Palestine to pick dozens of parcels of land or existing school sites that straddle the walls and roads now separating Israelis and Palestinians. Then, you must establish an organizing committee with chairs for Israelis, Palestinians, world educators, American Peace Corps, and NGO leaders. Have that committee draw up plans for turning these chosen sites into state of the art, fully integrated schools, recreational facilities, and a university.
“These schools and recreational sites will be designed and staffed to be among the world’s best. Their students will be supported by a 20 year escrowed scholarship account established to help underwrite the future education of graduates of these schools.
“America’s 2005 Israel aid budget will be restructured, based on the hard lessons we learned from civil wars, lynchings, burnings, and violence...
“Next year 10% of our Israel aid, or roughly $300 million, will be escrowed to this policy alone. We know education and integration works. We have learned warring and segregating doesn’t.
“Move quickly on implementing this cost effective and safety enhancing program, since we anticipate proposing further such foreign aid budget shifts in the future.”
“Golda Meier once said, ‘The fighting will stop when both sides decide they love their children more than they love death.’ ..
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Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Jul 26, 2006 11:12 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Nothing Good Can Come from This War
Is Beirut Burning?
By URI AVNERY
Tel Aviv.
(excerpt)
"Now it is not a secret anymore: this war has been planned for a long time. The military correspondents proudly reported this week that the army has been exercising for this war in all its details for several years. Only a month ago, there was a large war game to rehearse the entrance of land forces into South Lebanon - at a time when both the politicians and the generals were declaring that "we shall never again get into the Lebanon quagmire. We shall never again introduce land forces there." Now we are in the quagmire, and large land forces are operating in the area.
The other side, too, has been preparing this war for years. Not only did they build caches of thousands of missiles, but they have also prepared an elaborate system of Vietnam-style bunkers, tunnels and caves. Our soldiers are now encountering this system and paying a high price. As always, our army has treated "the Arabs" with disdain and discounted their military capabilities.
That is one of the problems of the military mentality. Talleyrand was not wrong when he said that "war is much too serious a thing to be left to military men." The mentality of the generals, resulting from their education and profession, is by nature force-oriented, simplistic, one-dimensional, not to say primitive. It is based on the belief that all problems can be solved by force, and if that does not work - then by more force.
That is well illustrated by the planning and execution of the current war. This was based on the assumption that if we cause terrible suffering to the population, they will rise up and demand the removal of Hizbullah. A minimal understanding of mass psychology would suggest the opposite. The killing of hundreds of Lebanese civilians, belonging to all the ethno-religious communities, the turning of the lives of the others into hell, and the destruction of the life-supporting infrastructure of Lebanese society will arouse a groundswell of fury and hatred - against Israel, and not against the heroes, as they see them, who sacrifice their lives in their defense"
So - it looks like Israel is doing the same idiotic things in Lebanon that the US did in Iraq - "shock and awe" didn't have the effect Rummy hoped for - yes, "mistakes were made". Mea culpa - and too bad about all them dead folks. Somehow, I don't think the Iraqis or the Lebanese are going to 'get over it' anytime soon. What do they call this? Blowback? Pissing into the wind? FUBAR?
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» RE: Why not listen to what an Israeli has to say?
Posted by: cold2touch
» RE: Why not listen to what an Israeli has to say?
Posted by: yellow
» Pitiful responses
Posted by: thoughtcriminal
Comments are closed-
Posted by: lordzombie on Jul 27, 2006 1:22 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
JERUSALEM - Shrapnel from an Israeli artillery shell was extracted from a young Palestinian wounded in a deadly Gaza beachfront explosion earlier this month, an Israeli television report said Monday.
The privately-owned Channel 10 report cited medical sources whose findings contradicted Israel's official version of events that the explosion which killed eight Palestinian civilians was not caused by Israeli artillery.
The shrapnel was removed from a 12-year-old boy who was wounded on the beach on June 9 and then transported to a hospital in southern Israel for medical treatment, it said.
Governments lie, they have always lied, and they always will. whether jew or gentile.
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» RE: come on man, the whole "thats anti semitic!!" reaction is SOO 2003
Posted by: yellow
» RE: come on man, the whole "thats anti semitic!!" reaction is SOO 2003
Posted by: yellow
» RE: come on man, the whole "thats anti semitic!!" reaction is SOO 2003
Posted by: yellow
» RE: come on man, the whole "thats anti semitic!!" reaction is SOO 2003
Posted by: erknight@optusnet.com.au
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Colin on Jul 27, 2006 1:23 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Now, clearly there is no evidence that it was deliberate. But then, given the nature of military orders - i.e. me shouting at you to do something - and the fact that the levels of beurocracy are refreshingly small (ironic given it's the one industry where completing everything in triplicate would be beneficial for everyone), exactly what kind of proof do you think you will find?
Besides, if it's not deliberate then, given the details stated in my first paragraph, clearly they are far too incompetent to manage such dangerous munitions.
PS Your racist undertones honestly turned my stomach.
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Posted by: Sundaymonkey on Jul 27, 2006 1:29 AM
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For the record:
The IDF knew exactly where that UN bunker was. It's been there for years. It's on the maps.
The UN observers sheltering in it contacted the IDF 10 times to tell them that they were being shelled. 10 times the IDF responded that they were very sorry and it wouldn't happen again.
The Irish officer appointed as liason between the UN force and the IDF forces on the ground doing the shelling contacted the attackers 6 times to tell them that they were targetting unarmed observers.
The IDF stoped shelling the bunker with mortars, and instead sent a guided missile right through the bunker's viewport to kill everyone inside.
But there's not a shred of evidence that this was done deliberately.
Like I said. Remarkable.
Oh, and not to put too fine a point on it. The only people claiming that a Palestinian mine, rather than Israeli shelling, was responsible for the murder of that family on Gaza beach are the Israeli military and Government spokesmen. After initially apologising, they held a really, really quick 'investigation' and concluded, oh so very conveniently, that it was those evil Palestinians who did it.
Needless to say, everyone else who has gone to the trouble of actually visiting the site and investigating the damage has concluded that it wasn't a mine, it was a shell fired from an Israeli gunship, at civillians, which is a war-crime.
But please, don't let the facts mess with that spaced-out little head of yours. You were getting off on screaming "Jew Hater!!!!" into the faces of everyone who lacks your Pavlovian response to Israeli war-crimes. Knock yourself out, just don't make the mistake of thinking that there's anyone with eyes to see and ears with which to hear who can fail to understand exactly where you're coming from.
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» You were fast to prove me right!
Posted by: thinkprogress
» RE: You were fast to prove me right!
Posted by: Sanballot
» RE: What a lying sack of s**t you are
Posted by: yellow
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Robinhio on Jul 27, 2006 1:55 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
http://billmon.org/archives/002568.html
If you let killers investigate themselves how often do you reckon they'll find themselves guilty ?
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Posted by: aurora2484 on Jul 27, 2006 2:00 AM
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This time, via the Internet, we are able to hear, see and feel the anguish of our brother and sister human beings, - to feel with them the incomprehensibility of such acts in the 21st century.
This time there is a sense of the entire levelling of cities and towns and those who dwell there, as being of no consequence to the machine-minds guiding the process along the inexorable route to the next stage of their "game".
www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/
10962352/iran_the_next_war
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Posted by: superdan on Jul 27, 2006 2:23 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Short synopsis:
Israel was shooting at Hezbollah emplacements that were very close to the U.N. base. They tried to prove how accurate they were, and succeeded for 7 days. Then they screwed up.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/7/27/12626/3982
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» UN Backs off accusing Israel
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» Be Honest
Posted by: Vani
» RE: Be Honest
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Be Honest - YOU HACKED MY LINK
Posted by: Vani
» Vani is losing it...
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Be Honest - A real reply, not garbage
Posted by: Vani
» RE: Be Honest - A real reply, not garbage
Posted by: blitzmesser
» People in black Coats!!
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» Get out of the terrorists vs Good guys mindset, idiot.
Posted by: superdan
» RE: Get out of the terrorists vs Good guys mindset, idiot.
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Get out of the terrorists vs Good guys mindset, idiot.
Posted by: billfaster
Comments are closed-
Posted by: thinkprogress on Jul 27, 2006 3:22 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
From today's NY SUN.
http://www.nysun.com/article/36860?page_no=1
A Canadian U.N. observer, one of four killed at a UNIFIL position near the southern Lebanese town of Khiyam on Tuesday, sent an e-mail to his former commander, a Canadian retired major-general, Lewis MacKenzie, in which he wrote that Hezbollah fighters were "all over" the U.N. position, Mr. MacKenzie said. Hezbollah troops, not the United Nations, were Israel's target, the deceased observer wrote.
Hess-von Kruedener wrote about heavy IDF artillery and aerial bombardment "within 2 meters of our position." The Israeli shooting, he added, "has not been deliberate targeting, but has rather been due to tactical necessity."
Mr. MacKenzie, who once commanded the U.N. troops in Bosnia, told the CBC. "What he was telling us was Hezbollah fighters were all over his position and the IDF were targeting them, and that's a favorite trick by people who don't have representation in the U.N. They use the U.N. as shields knowing that they cannot be punished for it."
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» RE: UPDATE - UN soldier from bombed post said Hezbollah fighters were "all over" the U.N. position
Posted by: IanA
» "You'll hit us, warned UN staff" - Chulov, Beirut
Posted by: aurora2484
» UN "soldier" sent those Emails several days ago.
Posted by: Vani
» RE: UPDATE - UN soldier's wife blames Israel (NOT Hezbollah) for his death
Posted by: cold2touch
» RE: UPDATE - UN soldier from bombed post said Hezbollah fighters were "all over" the U.N. position
Posted by: tellitasitis
Comments are closed-
Posted by: aurora2484 on Jul 27, 2006 3:38 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
During a daylong debate, council members made numerous changes to a text put forward by China, which lost one of the four officers killed in the attack.
Their patience ran out when Washington demanded the deletion of language condemning "any deliberate attack against U.N. personnel."
Qatar, the council's sole Arab member, then said it needed time to consult with its government overnight, and the deliberations adjourned until Thursday morning. A policy statement needs the approval of all 15 council members.
China's U.N. ambassador, Wang Guangya, called for a strong statement of condemnation after an Israeli air attack destroyed the U.N. post in southern Lebanon on Tuesday, killing peacekeepers from Austria, Canada, China and Finland.
The attack prompted U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan to ask Israel to investigate what he termed the "apparently deliberate targeting" of the U.N. observer post.
Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert, while expressing "deep sorrow" over the deaths and agreeing to an investigation, voiced shock at the suggestion the attack was deliberate.
Wang acknowledged it was important to preserve council unity but said the council had to show its concern for the safety of U.N. peacekeepers.
Asked whether the U.S. position might affect China's attitude toward American efforts for a resolution on Iran's nuclear program, now under negotiation, Wang indicated there might be some spillover.
"I think that all members will reflect, on what lessons, if there are any, (can be) learned from this episode," Wang said.
China's initial draft called for an immediate end to the fighting in Lebanon and referred to the "apparently deliberate targeting" of the U.N. troops by Israel.
U.S. Ambassador John Bolton said there was no evidence the attack was deliberate, and Wang agreed to take out the two phrases at a very early stage.
Hours later, U.S. envoy Molly Phee said the United States wanted language deleted expressing the council's condemnation of "any deliberate attack against U.N. personnel."
Phee filled in for Bolton who was in Washington preparing for a Senate confirmation hearing on Thursday on his nomination as U.N. ambassador.
(Additional reporting by Evelyn Leopold)
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» RE: Attacking anyone, anywhere is ok. Condemning that, is not on. url/author
Posted by: aurora2484
» RE: Attacking anyone, anywhere is ok. Condemning that, is not on.
Posted by: HeroesAll
» RE: Attacking anyone, anywhere is ok. Condemning that, is not on.
Posted by: aurora2484
» The Right Rant!
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» YOU don't get it - KNOCK OFF the condescending, demeaning attitude
Posted by: russianblue1
» russianblue1 can spell, but knows little else!
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» Anyone else agree with Conservasaurus about my "sorry state"?
Posted by: russianblue1
» RE: Anyone else agree with Conservasaurus about my "sorry state"?
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» Not true
Posted by: russianblue1
» RE: Not true
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Anyone else agree with Conservasaurus about my "sorry state"?
Posted by: marklar
» RE: russianblue1 can spell, but knows little else!
Posted by: marklar
» RE: russianblue1 can spell, but knows little else!
Posted by: tellitasitis
» World Peace Efforts Must Not Be Derailed
Posted by: Vani
» RE: Attacking anyone, anywhere is ok. Condemning that, is not on.
Posted by: itchyvet
» and now, World 'backs Lebanon Offensive'
Posted by: aurora2484
» RE: and now, World 'backs Lebanon Offensive'
Posted by: marklar
» RE: and now, World 'backs Lebanon Offensive'
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: and now, World 'backs Lebanon Offensive'
Posted by: marklar
» RE: and now, World 'backs Lebanon Offensive'
Posted by: Conservasaurus
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Far Sight on Jul 27, 2006 4:27 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I criticise Uzbekistan for the torture and abuse it causes. Does this prove some racial bias on my part?
I criticise many countries for the pain and damage they cause. For disproportionate actions, for people killed needlessly and for people suffering who need not suffer. Israel is one of these countries - the fact that they have a large jewish population does not make them immune to such criticism or from people being angered and saddened by their actions.
By using the anti-semiticism charge you help no-one but the anti-semites. You rob the term of all meaning and give the REAL anti-semites a smoke screen to work behind. When a real bigoted, vile anmti-semite speaks up and we label him as what he is it means nothing - because you have destroyed the term anti-semite, you have abused and misused the term by flinging it around carelessly and rendered it useless in labelling those who truly spout hate.
I am sure the neo-nazis and their ilk thank you, but it would be short sighted of any Jew or Israeli to do so.
Far Sight
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» RE: Since when has a Jew hater ever needed proof?
Posted by: VannaLaRoche
» RE: Since when has a Jew hater ever needed proof?
Posted by: RisaQ
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Posted by: HeroesAll on Jul 27, 2006 4:30 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is just such tired, old, shabby propaganda. You're slipping, thinkprogress. They could have used you in World War II, either the British or the Germans. Both were fond of demonising the enemy using two-dimensional caricatures, in order to inflame hatred and stiffen resolve. Been going on for over a century, actually.
So please take your 19th century agit-prop somewhere where the folks are more likely to appreciate it. Although I can't imagine where that is. If you wish to join the adults here, then learn to discuss issues using skills such as reasoning and logic.
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Posted by: Arvy on Jul 27, 2006 4:50 AM
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SectionID=107&ItemID=10643
As usual link has been split to permit posting it.
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» Israel has long-standing reputation of doing this sorts of things
Posted by: Bobsays
» Ramblings
Posted by: Conservasaurus
Comments are closed-
Posted by: numen on Jul 27, 2006 5:14 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: They shoot witnesses, don't they?
Posted by: Rolomax
Comments are closed-
Posted by: marklar on Jul 27, 2006 5:26 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
America First! I am not an Israeli and I do not support my taxdollars going to fund Israel and its wars of Occupation and agression. I do not want Israeli agents in AIPAC spying on my country. I do not want U.S. politicians turning as blind eye to the crimes against humanity that our military commits in Iraq or that Israel commits in Lebanon or against the Palestinians. We are not Nazi Germany. Speak up!
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» RE: Isaeal is no friend to the U.S.A - I agree
Posted by: Vani
» RE: Isaeal is no friend to the U.S.A - I agree
Posted by: davewuxi
» RE: Isaeal is no friend to the U.S.A
Posted by: symcokid
» RE: Isaeal is no friend to the U.S.A
Posted by: marklar
» RE: Isaeal is no friend to the U.S.A.... RESPONSE
Posted by: phillyreikimaster
» RE: Isaeal is no friend to the U.S.A.... RESPONSE
Posted by: DoorsFan1313
Comments are closed-
Posted by: solrev on Jul 27, 2006 5:34 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Sit happens
Posted by: maestra
Comments are closed-
Posted by: tashi on Jul 27, 2006 5:36 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Zionists have been using the charge of antisemitism to supress any logical criticism of policies of the Apartheid colony of Israel in the main stream media...Fortunately the more these charges are thrown around the less credible they become!
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» RE: people use "jew Hater" when they have no credible footing to stand on
Posted by: marklar
Comments are closed-
Posted by: wdzeller on Jul 27, 2006 6:06 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
First, back in the 1960's, the Progressives ( some used to call them Yankees, later communists!) decided that all Southern People specifically the whites were all racists, and needed to be told so. Hmmmm, I wonder why the South went from being a Democrat stronghold to one of nearly total Republican dominance? Howard Dean certainly couldn't figure it out, ever since he made his comment down South where he basically said," it ain't about God, guns and gays" and got booed by the crowd.
Then, in the early 1980's the Progressives decided that since the evangelical Christians were voicing their opposition of their tax dollars being used to fund the very abortions that they found abhorent, that they must be held up before all to see with the most virulent contempt, and smeared in the Progressive press with anecdotes such as, " Those people are really closeted sex fiends and child molesters!" Funny, ain't it? Before 1980, the voting demographics of the evangelical Christians were similar to the rest of the U.S. population; that is, no political party held a "lock" on their votes. Well that sure isn't true anymore, is it?
Now, turn to 2006 and the Progressives are spewing forth a very old sort of venom wrapped up in new garb against another of their constituency groups. That old venom is no less than anti-semitism, and the current group is no less than American Jews. All I can say boys is keep it up! When the Jews take their votes and their very lush campaign contributions over to the Republican Party, the Democrat Party will be totally fucked!
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» RE: Progressives are sooooooo smart!
Posted by: lively56
» RE: Progressives are sooooooo smart!
Posted by: wdzeller
» Giw us ut Anti Semitic?
Posted by: Vani
» The score or so of 'Jews' I know
Posted by: owlbear1
» RE: Time for Pro-Israeli Americans to put up or shut up
Posted by: marklar
» RE: Progressives are sooooooo smart!
Posted by: yellow
Comments are closed-
Posted by: russianblue1 on Jul 27, 2006 6:07 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Damn, you need to get a girlfriend, boyfriend, inflatable doll, or WHATEVER gets you off to keep you occupied at midnight instead of pounding out facsist, neocon remarks on your computer keyboard. I, for one, (and I'm sure the rest of the posters on Alternet) would appreciate it if you could release some of that tension that comes (no pun intended!) screaming out of your EVERY comment. I got an idea! Give Frankenfurter a call - he'll help you "relieve your sexual tensions". ;)
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Posted by: Arvy on Jul 27, 2006 6:13 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"This week I had the pleasure to appear on American radio, on the Laura Ingraham show, pitted against David Horowitz, a “Semite supremacist” who most recently made his name under the banner of Campus Watch, leading McCarthyite witch-hunts against American professors who have the impertinence to suggest that maybe, just maybe, Arabs have minds and feelings like the rest of us.
It was a revealing experience, at least for a British journalist rarely exposed to the depths of ignorance and prejudice in the United States on Middle East matters -- well, apart from the regular whackos who fill my email in-tray. But five minutes of listening to Horowitz speak, and the sympathy with which his arguments were greeted by Laura (“The Professors -- your book’s a great read, David”), left me a lot more frightened about the world’s future."
Full article by Jonathan Cook at:
http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?
SectionID=107&ItemID=10643
As usual link has been split to permit posting it.
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» RE: 5 Israeli Myths
Posted by: marklar
Comments are closed-
Posted by: russianblue1 on Jul 27, 2006 6:19 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Russianblue1: Some of the sites listed below have reporting on them that is older than the June 13th date in the CNN story you cite. Also, the CNN story you cite, in the second paragraph, states "However, in Gaza, the group Human Rights Watch said the evidence it has been able to gather suggests that a 155 mm artillery shell, like the type used by the Israeli military, was responsible." As investigations move forward, you must take the new evidence and adjust your opinion.
usatoday.com/news/world/2006-06-14-gaza-blast_x.htm
thinkprogress response: You can take the word of the terrorist animals who strap bombs to their children and believe you get 72 virgins for killing Jews if you would like.
But is is pretty amazing they 'knew' it was an israeli shell seconds after it occured. Must be the power of Allah.
Personally, I thought it was pretty funny he labels USA Today a "terrorist animal"!!!
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» HRW links to back that
Posted by: brunowe
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Posted by: aurora2484 on Jul 27, 2006 6:24 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The vehicles were "clearly marked by the medical emblem and flashing lights that were visible at a great distance."
www.antiwar.com/glantz/?articleid=9410
www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/
0,21985,19918297-5005961,00.html
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» RE: Ambulances targeted (and other relief efforts)
Posted by: i.R.i
» Huffington Post TROLL
Posted by: russianblue1
» RE: Huffington Post TROLL
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» Thank you for responding with civility
Posted by: russianblue1
» RE: Thank you for responding with civility
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Huffington Post TROLL
Posted by: marklar
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Thorrific on Jul 27, 2006 6:36 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Ignorant people need to google "King David Hotel" , "Lavon Affair" , and "USS Liberty".
Those sure are some incredible (meaning : not credible) allies that the USA and Britian have in Zionist Israel!!!!
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» Stormfront Troll
Posted by: i.R.i
» NeoCon Troll
Posted by: russianblue1
» russianblue1 tries for TROLL status!
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» I'll ignore this
Posted by: russianblue1
» RE: Stormfront Troll
Posted by: Thorrific
» RE: Stormfront Troll
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» that is a really lame attempt to deny reality
Posted by: Thorrific
» RE: that is a really lame attempt to deny reality
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: that is a really lame attempt to deny reality
Posted by: Thorrific
» RE: that is a really lame attempt to deny reality
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: that is a really lame attempt to deny reality
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: that is a really lame attempt to deny reality
Posted by: Thorrific
» RE: that is a really lame attempt to deny reality
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: that is a really lame attempt to deny reality
Posted by: Thorrific
» RE: that is a really lame attempt to deny reality
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: that is a really lame attempt to deny reality
Posted by: Thorrific
» RE: that is a really lame attempt to deny reality
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: that is a really lame attempt to deny reality
Posted by: Thorrific
» RE: that is a really lame attempt to deny reality
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» manufacturing anti-semites
Posted by: cold2touch
Comments are closed-
Posted by: srqwolf on Jul 27, 2006 7:00 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am as guilty as anyone here of falling prey to the tempation to whack them verbally. But, they cannot be reasoned with, are impervious to argument, tone-deaf to either moral suation or ridicule. They just want to provoke someone into an angry response that they will then hold up as evidence of anti-Semitism. I say - let them stew in their own lubricant.
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» RE: A Master Baiter
Posted by: Sundaymonkey
» RE: A Master Baiter
Posted by: marklar
» "Please don't feed the trolls"
Posted by: Crazy H
» RE: Precisely my point
Posted by: cold2touch
Comments are closed-
Posted by: xbj on Jul 27, 2006 7:08 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Whether or not someone, in all good conscience, can accept the fascist unilateral genocidal actions of "their" government, and all the utter bullshit and lies those governments spew and millions they spend to by the mass media to convince people of those lies and bullshit that war is necessary and killing is OK "because the other side started it first."
BOTH governments of the US and Israel are fascist: BOTH governments of the US and Israel start and fight moneyminting wars of conquest for their economies and economic windfall for the elite; BOTH governments of the US and Israel attack their own people to mobilize the population for their endless wars against an enemy that can never be won, "terrorism", because each attack creates more enemy EXPONENTIALLY. It's not about ending terrorism and forging peace; it's about RAPING MONEY FROM TAXPAYERS in an ENDLESS SCAM.
Both governments of the US and Israel are not democratically elected governments, but are run by military/offense contracting cabals that merely revolve puppet leaders with the real power being concentrated in secondary and tertiary offices, that control the vote through HACKED VOTING TALLIES.
The US and Israel ARE the Nazi Germany and Italy of today, only with a differnet target, and more power and firepower than those countries could ever have dreamed of in their wildest, sickest imaginations. And with a more horrific goal than merely taking over the world: TO NEVER WIN THEIR WARS, BUT NOT LOSE THEM EITHER; JUST HAVE THE GRAVY TRAIN of DEATH AND DESTRUCTION OF INNOCENT PEOPLE GO ON INDEFINITELY.
And no, the Israeli people are no more responsible for the fascist actions of their governments than are the American people... anyone believing the 90% polls supporting Israel's current action has got mush for brains, because their polls are even more rigged than US polls.
So let's stop infighting amongst ourselves. The enemy is not Hamas, or Hezbollah, nor "the vast Jewish conspiracy", nor THE INNNOCENT MEN, WOMEN, AND CHILDREN OF LEBANON.
The enemy is our own governments; let us NEVER FORGET THIS AND STAND TOGETHER AGAINST THEM.
How do we do this without impossible-to-win revolution?
Not terrorism of our own. Terrorism plays right into the enemy's hands, allowing their endless crusade to go on forever.
No, by taking a page from Ghandi. BY LAYING DOWN ALL OUR ARMS, EVERY LAST ONE OF US, AND REFUSING TO KILL.
EVER.
If we do not do this, mark my words; these bastards WILL END THE WORLD, and far sooner than anyone thinks POSSIBLE.
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» RE: nough infighting already!
Posted by: lively56
» Plowshares into Swords
Posted by: i.R.i
» RE: Plowshares into Swords
Posted by: IanA
» Funny
Posted by: russianblue1
» RE: Plowshares into Swords
Posted by: xbj
» RE: Plowshares into Swords
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Plowshares into Swords
Posted by: cold2touch
» RE: Plowshares into Swords
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Plowshares into Swords
Posted by: xbj
» RE: nough infighting already!
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: nough infighting already!
Posted by: xbj
» RE: nough infighting already!
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: nough infighting already!
Posted by: marklar
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Posted by: bogglesthemind on Jul 27, 2006 8:28 AM
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» RE: Since when has a Jew hater ever needed proof?
Posted by: gazooks
» RE: Since when has a Jew hater ever needed proof?
Posted by: Sundaymonkey
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Posted by: darby1936 on Jul 27, 2006 8:54 AM
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» RE: darby19366
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: The War Tapes - a movie playing now, see it
Posted by: marklar
» I think that is the whole point of the conflict.
Posted by: Pepper
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Posted by: Joe Ox on Jul 27, 2006 9:40 AM
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Sadly, due to their over arching "never shoot anyone for any reason, including a Rwandan literally in mid machete mayhem covered in the blood of children" (the preceding in actual verbage from the Rwanda mandate) they didn't even know they were involved.
The UN has declared the battle a victory, because even though suffering a 100% casualty rate, the UN troops did not stray from their orders one iota, proving to the world that no matter what, they are duty bound and honorable above all else.
In other news, Kofi Annan (known by UN subordinates as "Coffee On Him"...meant of course in a clear jest about his name and fully rejecting any racial interpretations-this is documentably true lest you berate me for inventing it)
has declared that the UN will respond to the horrific act by the Israelis with proportionate force. He said "Doggon it, we are going to, going to, ohhh, we are gonna get really mad and I may even say so at a press conference". Later after a cooling off period suggested by the benevolent leaders of Myanmar and Cambodia, the Secretary General decided that response was disproportionate to the act perpetrated and he remained calm and quiet.
Kofi has recalled several middle managers from Africa, one suffering minor injuries after being pryed off a child with a crowbar.
It gets worse....
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Posted by: Disputo on Jul 27, 2006 11:27 AM
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» RE: Stop the hate mongers
Posted by: Sundaymonkey
» RE: Stop the hate mongers
Posted by: aurora2484
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Posted by: Thorrific on Jul 27, 2006 11:34 AM
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2. I am not a Stormfront nazi or a white supremacist. However, your squealings of "anti-semite" or "nazi" do not bother me at all. I am not an "anti-semite" (an abuse of the real definition of semite, since arabs are semites too), and apolagists for Israel are damaging their own position by calling everyone who criticizes their behaviour a Nazi or an "anti-semite". If they keep it up, they will make "anti-semite" a respectable term. That said, I am not a "philo-semite" either. Israelis and Jews are just humans like everyone else, and most of the time humans are just plain assholes.
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Posted by: srqwolf on Jul 27, 2006 11:46 AM
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» this is what WE ALL have become - monstrous, barbaric
Posted by: aurora2484
» RE: this is what WE ALL have become - monstrous, barbaric
Posted by: aurora2484
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Posted by: Vani on Jul 27, 2006 11:52 AM
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» RE: Since when has a Jew hater ever needed proof? To ThinkProgress
Posted by: Sundaymonkey
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Posted by: Sundaymonkey on Jul 27, 2006 11:59 AM
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And the sick thing is, the more they misuse it to try and stiffle debate, the weaker it becomes. Calling someone an "anti-semite" should actually mean something. In the mouths of these jokers, it just becomes another groundless slur that can be brushed off with an angry snarl.
Give it a few posts and they'll be claiming that 'The Left' deliberately de-legitimised the term by complaining about it so much.
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Posted by: hotlipsin61 on Jul 27, 2006 12:10 PM
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Israel has understimated Hezbollah, whose weaponry was purchased from Russia, France, England and the United States. And we all know where Israel's arms came from. (Hint: NOT from Wal-Mart.)
The world is powerless to stop this macabre.
As the old saying goes-"an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind."
No one is willing to send peacekeeping troops into no-man's land to act as target practice between the two factions. The USA surely won't , because of what happened in 1982. We're tied down in Iraq.
So who will stop the fighting? We might as well sit on the sidelines until both Lebanon and Israel all kill each other. I hope this will not occur.
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» RE: Powerless - must be.
Posted by: symcokid
» RE: Powerless They Were NOt
Posted by: Vani
» RE: Powerless
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» Arabs in France
Posted by: Vani
» RE: Arabs in France
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Arabs in France
Posted by: blitzmesser
» RE: Arabs in France
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Powerless
Posted by: babs
» BABS - Powerless
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» wow.
Posted by: harris
» RE: wow.
Posted by: Conservasaurus
Comments are closed-
Posted by: thinkprogress on Jul 27, 2006 1:13 PM
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It is a war crime to use human shields.
Read for yourselves:
http://www.nysun.com/article/36860?page_no=1
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» Using human shields nothing new for animals.
Posted by: thinkprogress
» RE: Using human shields nothing new for animals.
Posted by: babs
» RE: Facts bite Jew haters in the butt - Hezbollah was using UN soldiers at post as human shields!
Posted by: beachy
» RE: Facts bite Jew haters in the butt - Hezbollah was using UN soldiers at post as human shields!
Posted by: Vani
» RE: Facts bite Jew haters in the butt - Hezbollah was using UN soldiers at post as human shields!
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» Ignorance is Contagious
Posted by: Vani
» Ignorance is Contagious cont
Posted by: Vani
» RE: Ignorance is Contagious Post 2
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Ignorance is Contagious Post 2
Posted by: blitzmesser
» RE: Ignorance is Contagious Post 2
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Ignorance is Contagious - Post 1
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» US Response
Posted by: russianblue1
» News that supports my above contention
Posted by: russianblue1
» RE: US Response
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» Vani, some are animals
Posted by: Joe Ox
» RE: Vani, some are animals
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» Conserv.
Posted by: Joe Ox
» RE: Conserv.
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Conserv.
Posted by: blitzmesser
» RE: Conserv.
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» not an urban legend.
Posted by: Joe Ox
» RE: Vani, some are animals
Posted by: babs
» RE: Vani, some are animals
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» May I recommend a great movie
Posted by: russianblue1
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Posted by: jeffrey7 on Jul 27, 2006 2:04 PM
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Yes they killed the UN boys on purpose. Yes they want to burn the Earth, Yes their Greed makes them feel superior
and that's why they do it.
Just take joy in the fact that more of their wart coverd,wrinkle encrusted asses die on their gold covered toilets everyday,then we could make bullets for.
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Posted by: sofla100 on Jul 27, 2006 2:27 PM
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Posted by: Basenjis on Jul 27, 2006 3:32 PM
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Posted by: Againstthewindwalking on Jul 27, 2006 5:18 PM
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It seems that Isreali military personel have this odd condition that makes them think that rocket propeled ordinance has no detrimental effect on human life! Obviously if it does, they feel their heartfelt ignorance of the effect of their own munitions should excuse them from any and all culpability.
By the way, "think progress", "can't-serve-asaurus", and what ever other "trolls de jour" are lurking around out there today, I'm not a "Jew hater" and I refuse to be baited into your little hate-fest!
I only speak when I have something to say! And I just said it!
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» RE: Isreal just admitted that UN post was targeted deliberatly!
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Isreal just admitted that UN post was targeted deliberatly!
Posted by: cold2touch
» RE: Isreal just admitted that UN post was targeted deliberatly!
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Isreal just admitted that UN post was targeted deliberatly!
Posted by: harris
» RE: Isreal just admitted that UN post was targeted deliberatly!
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Isreal just admitted that UN post was targeted deliberatly!
Posted by: blitzmesser
» RE: Isreal just admitted that UN post was targeted deliberatly!
Posted by: Conservasaurus
Comments are closed-
Posted by: thinkprogress on Jul 27, 2006 5:23 PM
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My post was respectful and followed the Alternet guidelines which I agreed to when I created my account.
It is just a matter of time before they cancel my account.
What is funny is that Alternet has a story on the frontpage about how some protesters were kicked out of a hannity event. Alternet rips them for not allowing free speech.
Well, talk about hypocrisy! LOL!!!
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» RE: Alternet Censors!!! My post was removed and it did not break the AlterNet Guidelines!!
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Alternet Censors!!! My post was removed and it did not break the AlterNet Guidelines!!
Posted by: blitzmesser
» RE: Alternet Censors!!! My post was removed and it did not break the AlterNet Guidelines!!
Posted by: thinkprogress
» RE: Alternet Censors!!! My post was removed and it did not break the AlterNet Guidelines!!
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Alternet Censors!!! My post was removed and it did not break the AlterNet Guidelines!!
Posted by: 1984NOW!!!
» RE: Alternet Censors!!! My post was removed and it did not break the AlterNet Guidelines!!
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Alternet Censors!!! My post was removed and it did not break the AlterNet Guidelines!!
Posted by: cold2touch
» RE: Alternet Censors!!! My post was removed and it did not break the AlterNet Guidelines!!
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» .NOT anti-conservative - mine removed also
Posted by: aurora2484
» RE: Alternet Censors!!! My post was removed and it did not break the AlterNet Guidelines!!
Posted by: harris
» Liberal definition of speech they don't agree with = "trash and vomit"
Posted by: thinkprogress
» RE: Alternet Censors!!! My post was removed and it did not break the AlterNet Guidelines!!
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» It's a moderated discussion forum, not censorship ...
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» Moderated discussion forum
Posted by: Joe Ox
» RE: Moderated discussion forum
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Moderated discussion forum
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Moderated discussion forum
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Moderated discussion forum
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» High Minded Debate
Posted by: Joe Ox
» RE: High Minded Debate
Posted by: Joshua Holland
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Posted by: jimmiemacj on Jul 27, 2006 7:56 PM
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jmc
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Posted by: Vani on Jul 28, 2006 5:02 AM
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This is not the time for picayune bickering. This is a question of protecting the mechanisms that we have put into place to maintain and encourage World Peace. Arabs and Jews are only two peoples on a planet bustling with ethnic diversity. All ethnicities deserve a fair chance to reach their full potential. China alone has reported 2400 ethnic groups. Can we afford to focus on any one group to the detriment of another?
The Earth is 4 billion years old. Human beings are only 100 millions old. We have many, many years ahead of us together before our time together is finished. Peaceable coexistence is our only hope. We can not let the Arabs-Jew or Middle Eastern conflict undermine peacekeeping and peace-building structures that can, will and does benefit billions of human beings worldwide. Civilized people can't afford to be dominated by war and violence. We have to do everything we can to further World Peace. For the moment, the UN is our best bet. It is the only arena that by definition encourages cooperation between nations. If UN Peacekeeper and Truce Observers, who risk their lives so that all of us can attain peace, are not protected, then the entire World Peace effort is placed in jeopardy. The murder of the 4 UN employees is a heinous act which must, must, must be condemned, no matter which country is humiliated in doing so. World peace takes precedence over nationalistic chauvinism.
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» Vani, Diversity is Worthy
Posted by: Joe Ox
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Posted by: robflam on Jul 28, 2006 6:13 AM
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Posted by: sofla100 on Jul 28, 2006 8:10 AM
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Posted by: sofla100 on Jul 28, 2006 8:15 AM
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» RE: US and Israel - better PR
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: US and Israel - better PR
Posted by: sofla100
» Beheadings justified????
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Beheadings justified????
Posted by: sofla100
» RE: US and Israel - better PR
Posted by: Conservasaurus
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Posted by: Reader11722 on Jul 28, 2006 12:47 PM
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Final link (before Google Books caes to gov't pressure):
America Deceived - Book
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Posted by: srqwolf on Jul 28, 2006 4:26 PM
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Posted by: sofla100 on Jul 28, 2006 7:59 PM
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Israeli soldiers are being used the same way. Fed on lies, myths of some kind of super soldier, ruined when the reality of being a baby killer hits home. How sad.
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Posted by: TKO on Jul 29, 2006 7:15 PM
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"Meanwhile, a top Israeli general said for the first time that the military had deliberately -- but accidentally -- hit a United Nations outpost Tuesday. The attack killed four unarmed peacekeepers.
Brig. Gen. Shuki Shahar, the deputy chief of the military's Northern Command, said soldiers in the field had accidentally called in the coordinates of the U.N. base and that the airstrike had been approved up the chain of command.
U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan had suggested Tuesday that the military had targeted the outpost deliberately. Israeli leaders rejected that allegation, but Shahar's initial findings indicate that the military did strike the base deliberately, even if it wasn't an intentional attempt to kill peacekeepers."
Israel deliberately but accidentally hit UN post, approved up chain of command
“no commander would deliberately target UN or civilians” according to Israeli Foreign minister
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Posted by: theBike on Jul 31, 2006 10:13 AM
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would waste a bomb on a UN post when the enemy was a stone's throw away. What's the point? Answer - there is no point and it's obviouly the last thing Israeli forces wanted to happen. The implied claim that Israel somehow gained something is shown to be patently absurd by the results of the action. I predict that logic will not prevent the anti-Semites from deducing some hidden purpose, no matter how silly it may seem. Guys flying at 600 knots on the deck always hit their targets. Sure they do.
Second question - why did Kofi Anon make loud complaints? Was it to cover up the failure of the UN to remove its non-combat observer personnel from an obviously confused battleground? The blame for any UN casualties lies squarely on the head of the "leader" who so obviously failed to protect his workers. Kofi can be considered as both a fool and a
murderer. He should have been dressed down both by the US and Britain, the only countries that don't seem to be frightened by the threats of the Arab terrorists. THe UN's leader has once again shown his true colors by criticizing Isreal for responding to a terrorist rocket attack. Sixteen days of rockets falling on Israeli soil and Kofi doesn't open his mouth. Kofi needs to be impeached and then perhaps jailed for past criminal acts. Kofi and ethics or morals is an oxymoron. He is a puppet of the Arab terrorist groups, with whom he strongly identifies.
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Posted by: attila on Jul 31, 2006 10:33 AM
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Aid to Israel, unlike quarterly aid distributed to other nations, goes in one lump to their General Fund, where they collect the interest. From there, it is increasingly used to update the world’s perhaps fourth strongest military, quell Palestinian unrest, establish or fortify segregated settlements, and build walls and private Israeli roads. To many world citizens, this use of American tax dollars is seen in its kindest terms as “segregation.”
Using America’s history to end generations of Israel Palestine bloodshed
The spiraling of worldwide terror emanates from Holy Land hatreds. America’s history offers the graceful answer.
The CIVIL RIGHTS ACT OF 1964 (CRA) empowered the United States to:
• Prevent discrimination in federally assisted programs.”
It didn’t end discrimination. It needed to rely on another tool.
The BROWN V. BOARD OF EDUCATION CASE OF 1954 (BBE) legislated:
• "Separate educational facilities are inherently unequal."
While these acts were taking hold in the 1950s & 60s, we grew a literate middle class that schooled and played together to eradicate the too prevalent diseases of narrow mindedness, bigotry, and racial violence.
How can America help end generations of Israeli Palestinian bloodshed, growing fundamentalist antipathy, spiraling terror, and make the world safer and smarter?
In Palestine, there is one university, in Israel 8. In 2001 about 50,000 Palestinian students could not get to school, at least 3 schools were occupied by Israeli soldiers and turned into military camps; over 2,000 students were injured and 137 killed on their way to or from school; many schools had no or few textbooks. The Director of Libraries for Peace says not one library functions in Palestine. In 2006, the situation has not improved.
The world needs an administration that attaches our nation’s healthy history to our economic exchanges with Israel and Palestine.
Image how much safer the next generation would be hearing these words from an American President:
“Kids who school, play, and grow together don’t throw stones or bombs at each other. Kids who hang out together erase dangerous ignorances and hatreds. Instead, they build their nation’s vitality, economy, and character.
“Today we call on Israel and Palestine to pick dozens of parcels of land or existing school sites that straddle the walls and roads now separating Israelis and Palestinians. Then, you must establish an organizing committee with chairs for Israelis, Palestinians, world educators, American Peace Corps, and NGO leaders. Have that committee draw up plans for turning these chosen sites into state of the art, fully integrated schools, recreational facilities, and a university.
“These schools and recreational sites will be designed and staffed to be among the world’s best. Their students will be supported by a 20 year escrowed scholarship account established to help underwrite the future education of graduates of these schools.
“America’s 2005 Israel aid budget will be restructured, based on the hard lessons we learned from civil wars, lynchings, burnings, and violence...
“Next year 10% of our Israel aid, or roughly $300 million, will be escrowed to this policy alone. We know education and integration works. We have learned warring and segregating doesn’t.
“Move quickly on implementing this cost effective and safety enhancing program, since we anticipate proposing further such foreign aid budget shifts in the future.”
“Golda Meier once said, ‘The fighting will stop when both sides decide they love their children more than they love death.’ ..
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