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Six Immigration Lies, Dispelled

By Rinku Sen, TomPaine.com. Posted July 24, 2006.


Immigrants aren't animals or terrorists -- and they're not sucking the nation's economy dry.

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In the ongoing battle over immigration, conservative rhetoric continues to escalate. It's racist, and it gets results. This year, more than 30 states have passed 57 laws banning the undocumented from receiving social services or pledging National Guard troops to patrol the southern U.S. border. Earlier this week, House Republicans in Washington staged a hearing about "cracking down" on undocumented immigrants. Republicans have been told to move ahead but avoid pissing off Latinos - their lesson from Proposition 187 in California -- but a little decoding of the symbols, soundbites and economic arguments they use exposes their fear of a browner nation.

Here, then, are the six racist myths driving the immigration debate, dispelled.

Immigrants are not animals. Last week, Rep. Steve Katz, R.-Ariz., presented his proposal to Congress for a "super fence" along the border. "We could electrify it," he said, "not enough to kill somebody but enough to make them think twice. We do that with livestock all the time." If the problem eased, he suggested, we could open it up again and "let the livestock run through." Enough said.

Neither are they terrorists. In Colorado, a dramatic series of debates ended with the state legislature passing a law requiring adult applicants for public services to prove citizenship. Republicans complained about being beaten down in a "Friday night massacre" because the law didn't go far enough, according to State Rep. Debbie Stafford, R-Aurora. She wanted a ballot measure writing the ban into the state's constitution and also applying to people under 18.

"We're helping to create the next generation of terrorists," she told the Rocky Mountain News . There is no documented connection between immigration and terrorism. When making the flimsy argument that immigration threatens our national security, conservatives like to cite the example of the 9/11 hijackers. Yet, they forget that all 19 hijackers entered the country legally.

Tent cities at the border would be 21st-century concentration camps. Don Goldwater, Arizona's leading Republican gubernatorial candidate, wants to arrest border crossers, imprison them in tents and make them build that coveted super fence. All those National Guard troops sent to the southern border would be kept busy guarding the camps.

There's no invasion. In Idaho, Canyon County Commissioner Robert Vasquez, modeling himself after Tom Tancredo, accused his opponents in a Senate race of "collaborating with the unarmed enemy invading America."

His grandparents were Mexican immigrants, but he fears the consequences of letting in more of their kind, calling this a war: "Either we protect and defend Old Glory at every challenge, or we all learn Spanish and get used to the chicken and worm on the Mexican flag." (Vasquez has joined the National Advisory Committee of Protect Arizona Now, whose chair Virginia Abernethy describes herself as a "white separatist.") There's no evidence, however, that the Latino population will surpass whites any time soon. The Census Bureau projects that by the year 2030, whites will be 24.4 percent of the population; Latinos 20.1 percent. Even in 50 years, Latinos won't outnumber the white majority.
They speak English, just not "English only." Mayor Tom Macklin of Avon Park, Florida, pushed for a new law based on a Pennsylvania precedent that makes English the city's official language -- in addition to fining landlords and denying business licenses to those who accommodate the horde. The city will remove Spanish from all documents, signs and automated phone messages. In Bogota, New Jersey, Mayor Steve Lonegan, generally a free-market libertarian, is campaigning to force McDonald's to remove a Spanish-language billboard. Of course, he'll have to change the town's name too.

As an immigrant child, I can testify that all this is unnecessary. Although my parents allowed no English at home, I still get to experience the pleasure of white people complimenting my English. Funding for English as a Second Language classes would be far more helpful--and very likely less expensive - than prohibiting multilingualism.

They do not drain public coffers. Lamenting the strain the undocumented impose on our public services is a favorite straw man erected by nativist politicians. Yet, once again, the facts don't support the argument. Studies in state after state show that immigrants pay their fair share of taxes. Even the undocumented pay into Social Security through false numbers. According to a 2005 study by Physicians for a National Health Program, immigrants, including the undocumented, use fewer health care resources than native-born citizens. Immigrants accounted for 10.4 percent of the U.S. population, but only 7.9 percent of total health spending, and only 8 percent of government health spending. Their per capita expenditure is less than half that of non-immigrants. Thirty percent of immigrants used no healthcare at all in the course of a year.

These stereotypes generate real consequences. They drive the entire policy debate rightward, so that neither Republicans nor Democrats are willing to decouple immigration and national security. Even the Senate's "good" immigration bill includes an English-only provision that could prevent FEMA and other federal agencies from serving limited English speakers. At the local level, racism, coded or not, drives all immigrants underground and enables bigots. It won't take a genius landlord to decide that simply avoiding brown skin altogether beats paying $1,000 fine per person. A woman in Avon Park, the new English-only city, reported that a bartender refused to serve her sister who had a Puerto Rican drivers' license, saying, "I can't read that."

In another example, the Idaho Community Action Network reports that Robert Vasquez's polarizing language has created so much fear of roundups that immigrants hole up at home and send the kids to do the grocery shopping. Vehicles carrying day laborers there have been forced off the road by others. Refugees have woken up in the middle of the night to someone banging on their doors telling them to get out of the country, and the white supremacist group National Alliance set fires at the local university to "defend" the flag. Their flyers said: "Stop Immigration! Non- Whites are turning America into a Third World slum... They are messy, disruptive, noisy and multiply rapidly. Let's send them home now!" Lest we believe this is only about red states, note that a woman wrote in to The New York Times after seeing the same flyer on a window in the Upper East Side.

Racism is the wedge conservatives use to distract us from real questions that need answers. If they are so upset with people draining the public treasury, they should protest real drains like the $70 billion of corporate tax income lost in offshore tax havens annually.

Politicians and immigration foes are trying to manufacture a new culture war. But the majority of Americans don't want one and must speak up now to drown out the subtle racism dominating this debate.

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Rinku Sen is the publisher of ColorLines magazine and communications director of the Applied Research Center (ARC).

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View:
"Racist" charge typical when facts say otherwise
Posted by: pzo on Jul 23, 2006 10:09 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Wow, by the second word of the second sentence comes the classic fallback position of those confronted by irrefutable facts. then again in the next paragraph.

No, Mr. Sen, we are "illegalists." It matters not what the race is, it is the lack of legal residency and subsequent impacts on America that we are fed up with.

Certainly, some "anti-immigrant" - oh, wait, they are really NOT immigrants - are racists. But that is an ugly slur that you throw against millions of Americans who just want control of changes coming too fast for our culture to adjust to. Low wages, inability to communicate, and population pressures are just a few results of this massive influx.

It's not even a question of using services, or taxes paid, it starts with illegal entry, then illegal documents, then illegal work. Seen any high school kids or dropouts working at McDonalds lately? Over at the construction sites?

I've never seen an analysis of how they impact America's poor, but consider this: If we have 12 million illegals here and they live four to a dwelling, that is 3 million more housing units, or two city's worth, of urban sprawl, energy consumption, etc. Since virtually all illegals are at the lower income levels, that means that poor Americans are competing for the very same housing stock.

If we start arresting a few CEO's and blond housewives, the jobs would dry up. No jobbee, no workee, no problem.

pzo

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» It's them meegrants fault! Posted by: texshelters
» RE: It's Tex Shelters! Posted by: texshelters
The immigration lies of the immigration advocates
Posted by: Bobsays on Jul 24, 2006 12:19 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Nice try, but the list is a mix of straw men (nobody really thinks immigrants are 'animals'), and misinformation (the true costs of migration).

Any person who enters a country uses resources. When that person needs housing and social services, there is a cost to the public purse. What we have witnessed during the 1990s is a marked change in immigration. Where it once was organised and led to integration, it is now disorganised and leads to ghettos.

I will give you an example based on evidence. The UK is currently experiencing the highest rates of immigration in the country's history. And here is the results. The most successful group to arrive in the past few years (the Poles) have integrated very well and most are working. They have been a boon to the economy. Immigrants who arrived five and ten years ago, however, are now a serious social problem, with high unemployment rates, living in ghettos and spawning the terrorism that led to the deaths of so many.

It is clear that immigration works well where the community coming in shares the values of the host community. It fails where the community coming in behaves like it is an invasion, and either isolates itself from the mainstream, or tries to be hostile to the mainstream (demanding sharia law, etc.). The Mexican community would do better if it obeyed the law, refrained from criminal activity, stopped making calls for the US to be a Spanish speaking nation, and respected the country's history and laws, rather than saying the US is imperialistic (ignoring that Spain was imperialistic as well).

Do this, and we wouldn't be having this debate in the first place.

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» What was that again? Posted by: HeroesAll
spanish language signs/ads
Posted by: browngoddess on Jul 24, 2006 12:21 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The fact that the Spanish language is being targeted by anti-immigrant activists wanting to take down bilingual signs, etc. confirms what we've known all along, which is that the immigration debate is not about "legal vs. illegal" immigration, but rather, is about race. Immigration debates in U.S. history have been historically tied to debates about race, and the current one is no different. Not all undocumented immigrants speak Spanish, yet only Spanish-language services are being targeted. Let's see them try to stop Polish-language services in Chicago meant for the city's large Polish population (many of whom are undocumented) that has blonde hair and blue eyes.

On a side note: I wonder if these same Republicans would agree to stop Spanish-language Army commercials meant to recruit Latino youth into the military.

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» RE: spanish language signs/ads Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: spanish language signs/ads Posted by: freeda'all
» RE: spanish language signs/ads Posted by: Econotarian
Wow, stir that ant's nest with a stick...
Posted by: HeroesAll on Jul 24, 2006 1:52 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I can't comment on the situation in the US. But I can comment on Australia.

Australia, like the US, is a nation built on immigration. The white immigrants came over and displaced the locals, then set themselves up as 'real' Australians. Okay, that's old news.

Australia has also absorbed wave after wave of immigrants from elsewhere: first the Chinese, to the goldfields (where they were treated as subhuman); then the Italians and Greeks, and others around the world wars; more recently Vietnamese fleeing the complete destruction of their country, and the last few years Sudanese, Afghanis and Iraqis fleeing the complete destruction of theirs. There's a bit of a common thread there.

What happens is pretty much the same: they're decried to start with, then in ten or twenty years time they're 'solid citizens', while the newest influx is abused. It seems to be human nature, alas. Perhaps I'm not human, because I don't see the need to do that.

Unfortunately for the bigots, it was shown that these immigrants (legal or otherwise) actually improved the economy: in economic terms they provided a net benefit. Quite possibly, without the continuous influx of 'new blood', the Australian economy would have become moribund.

There are a lot of reasons for why their impact is positive, but it seems there's very few reasons why they choose to flee their countries and come here. We (as in We The West, or Australia as a tagalong of the US) have made their lives so difficult, with our wars and our economic games and our poisonous industries, that they're desperately trying to stay afloat the best they can. Can anyone blame them for that?

So to those who want to reduce 'illegal immigration', here's my suggestion: stop your government from trashing their country and they'll likely stay where they are. Get the US government to stop pissing in other peoples' houses. Persuade the Bushies to cancel CAFTA or NAFTA or whatever it was, because those immigrants aren't doing it to spite you or to take your stuff, they're doing it out of desperation.

So stop being afraid of them, and stop punishing them because they've already been punished by your government, and start taking action to change the causes, not the symptoms.

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» I'll make it simple... Posted by: HeroesAll
» RE: I'll make it simple... Posted by: rinpochet
» RE: I'll make it simple... Posted by: HeroesAll
» One big difference Posted by: pzo
One truth about immigrants. Stated.
Posted by: tuff_bird on Jul 24, 2006 3:24 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Illegal immigrants take American jobs while many Americans are unemployed.

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» RE: One truth about immigrants. Stated. Posted by: Third_Eye_Open
» RE: One truth about immigrants. Stated. Posted by: paintthestreets
Overseas, American Embassies Milk the Poor
Posted by: fredo1012 on Jul 24, 2006 3:54 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm going off on a little tangent, and even then I'm not going to belabor the point. Around the world US embassies charge $100 to $110 (USD) non-refundable fees for visa applications, an amount needed to feed a family of 4 for months in most of these countries. Most of the time only 1% applicants get visas. In Nigeria, for example, THOUSANDS APPLY FOR US VISAS EACH WEEK; most of them with valied reasons and documentation to visit or relocate to the US. But most are denied and must forfeit their hard earned income to the US Embassy. That's 100s of 1000s of US Dollars milked from the poor. "We are a rich nation helping the poor, hey?" Just do the math and have the moral courage to tell me so... Please call your Congress men and women to address this extortion of the world's poor.

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» Second most corrupt Posted by: Joshua Holland
Language skills??
Posted by: numen on Jul 24, 2006 4:57 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Despite showing great pride at being complimented on speaking good English, Sen still can't comprehend the difference between the terms "immigrant" and "illegal alien" throughout the entire essay.

Sen gets an "F" on the English exam.

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» Amen! Posted by: pzo
Racist bad word...
Posted by: blackinjun on Jul 24, 2006 5:32 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm speaking truthfully without prejudice. I'm talking from experience, not from some ideological guilt ridden perspective or one who needs to hire a "cheap" gardener. I was an Vietnam Vet mess cook, therefore, I sought jobs in restaurants and hotels throughout my life. A few years back I went to L.A. to live near my son and sought employment in several restaurants/hotels. I couldn't get a job because the Mexicans wouldn't allow it. They put a lock on the jobs. They would have one "legal" Mexican running the show and when they could, he'd hire illegals at very low wages.


All that b.s. that you are writing about is just that, b.s. to promote your position and although you are correct, (except for health care and education) it's not the problem. Ask the thousands of blacks AMERICAN high school grads who can't find traditional jobs because the Mexicans, illegal and other wise have taken them. Ask the unemployed black men and women who have families to support and have now turned to other things out of frustration. (The legal Mexicans use their connections with illegals to shut out American workers) Ask where are the unions to protect AMERICAN workers/wages? Ask why do my tax dollars pay for head start for illegal Mexican worker's children or SSI. (I don't care if it's two dollars or two million, let them find it in Mexico. Look how they treat their own indigenous population and "immigrants from central america, like shit, so why should we be so kind?)

Liberal and progressive whites can go too far at times with this "we are the world." Look at our country first, we are in deep shit with gangs, drugs, murder, while you are worried about making illegal immigrants legal. America has a history of not caring for it's black, ex slave population and you liberals and progressives are not breaking ranks. This is one reason why you are such hypocrites hiding behind some pseudo intellectual superiority mask.

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» RE: acist bad word... Posted by: SekhmetsatRa
» Couple of very good points Posted by: HeroesAll
» RE: racist bad word... Posted by: paintthestreets
» RE: acist bad word... Posted by: babs
» RE: acist bad word... Posted by: blackinjun
» RE: acist bad word... Posted by: davidt
» RE: acist bad word... Posted by: blackinjun
Employers are the reason for illegal immigration
Posted by: deo508 on Jul 24, 2006 5:37 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I worked for a large corporation selling construction equipment in South Florida throughout the nineties. I visited commercial construction sites, sugar and citrus mills all around Lake Okeechobee (yes, the harvest of shame is still thriving) and all kinds of contracting businesses from large Mechanical Contractors to small one-drunk operations (as we refer to fledgling mom&pop contractors who make enough to employ several illegals.)
I witnessed illegal immingrants in every industry, on every job site, working in every circumstance you can imagine. Some employers valued their illegal workers like the large and successful mechanical contractors who apprenticed and employed union laborers, and gave skilled training to select illegals and paid liveable wages to all. But a large majority used Illigal immigrants and used them poorly. Low wages, no benefits, no time off, no breaks, I've heard every story you can imagine. Some contractors I would simply not sell to because the stuff I sold was very expensive, required many hours of training, and people could get hurt easily without proper training or supervision. I've seen illegals get injured before my very eyes. One guy, a GUAT as they referred to him, got his leg shredded badly from a machine, caused by human error, while in an ushored (unsupported) ditch filled with water leaked in overnight form the underground aquifer near the Miami River. The boss and owner, Willard, said this exactly," Get him out of there and give him his check, He's done. Find someone to replace him."
I could go on with tons more.
My expereince proved to me that employers are to blame for illegal immigration. Period. any construction site in the south, mid-west, and west, and increasingly in the northeast, will have a MAJORITY of illegal laborers who not only do unskilled labor but who perform skilled labor in positons that once required licsencing and union memmbership.
You can not blame people for wanting to come here to work. They are only trying to make a living. It's our politicians and employers from big corporations like Tyson Foods who import Illegal immigrants in their company trucks, and Wal-Mart who lock them up at night while they clean their stores, who are to blame.
American business has lost it's way and is highly unethical and highly immoral when comes to the workforce on not only illegal immigrant but Americans as well. And many of them claim that they are Christians. My ass they are.
We need leaders who care about human beings before golden parachutes and profits. Period.

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An exercise in futility
Posted by: Lizmv on Jul 24, 2006 5:49 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Immigration is really such a non-issue, however is is certainly a great wedge that the right will use to divert attention from reality. Presenting the facts is like talking to a brick wall.

Locally, in the Northeast, we don't have many Mexican immigrants. We do have a large population of Brazilian immigrants. As an affordable housing advocate, I have come to know many and the challenges they face. I am routinely told of landlords who charge $700 to $800 a month for a bed in a house, with 15 to 20 people filling the house. I know of employers who hire Brazilians then refuse to pay them and refuse to pay for medical care if someone is injured on the job. These employers do not purchase the manditory workmens comp insurance. This is a resort area. Without the Brazilians (and Jamacians, Costa Ricans, etc.) most of the nessessary labor that keeps our tourist industry running smoothly would not get done. They are not taking jobs away from Americans. I don't know of a single high school kid who isn't able to get a summer job.

The majority of immigrants want nothing more than to contribute to the community. They would have prefered to remain in their homelands but are here so they can feed their families. Many young men come alone, after their entire extended families have scraped together the money to get them here. What they are able to earn at even the lowest paid jobs, feed whole families back home. Most work 2 and 3 jobs and work 18 hour days. They have build a strong community here that supports each other and they contribute a great deal to the local economy and community. As for that myth of free medical care? They sure don't get it here! Every Monday at the local hospital, there is a line of Brazilians waiting to make their small payments on what they owe. My friend who works in the billing office tells me that the only people who don't pay their bills are the Americans.

The current wave of immigrants are people, no different than my Irish great-grand parents who fled Ireland. People looking to survive and raise their children out of poverty.

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» Very good post Posted by: HeroesAll
» RE: An exercise in futility Posted by: rinpochet
» Did you ever hear this? Posted by: ghoster
» RE: Did you ever hear this? Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: An exercise in futility Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: An exercise in futility Posted by: blackinjun
» RE: An exercise in futility Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: An exercise in futility Posted by: blackinjun
» RE: An exercise in futility Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: An exercise in futility Posted by: Longdream
» RE: An exercise in futility Posted by: blackinjun
» RE: An exercise in futility Posted by: blackinjun
» Dangerous Posting Posted by: texshelters
Correction
Posted by: bjoens on Jul 24, 2006 6:15 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Mostly a good piece on current immigration issues. However, starting off the piece with an error does not help the cause. The quote about using an electric fence on the U.S.-Mexico border can be attributed to Rep. Steve King (R-Iowa). I live in Iowa and read about his comments in last week's Des Moines Register. There is no Steve Katz listed as a member of the current House of Representatives.

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notfree
Posted by: losingmyliberties on Jul 24, 2006 7:41 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm so sick of the race card, the lack of pigment in are skin makes us lighter so where all lumped togther and called white by the true raceist. To me race does not matter, it personality that maters. When you come to this country illegally , you deserve nothing. That's the federal goverment the biggest promouters of raceism, they dont want unity. You broke the law when entered the country , and if the goverment dont enforce it, then I should not have to be enslaved by there laws . Liberty and justice for all what a joke!!!!!!

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» RE: notfree Posted by: paintthestreets
» RE: notfree Posted by: harris
» Can illegals be racist? Posted by: fenix
tortilla
Posted by: Cayliffe on Jul 24, 2006 8:18 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Many people have been tricked into believing this to be a critical issue. It is a Republican talking point designed to take your attention away from other more important national issues.
America is less than 8% of the world's population but consumes more than 45% of the world's natural resources. In order to support this bloated and unbalanced economic platform, immigrants serve in situ so that our fat, lazy, white, x-box playing children don't have to go out to pick lettuce, clean restaurant tables, change our hotel linens or wipe the asses of our institutionalized aging parents.
There is no immigration crisis. Immigrants, in general, or rather, Mexicans, because that is what we are talking about here, have an astonishing work ethic, tremendous respect for the United States, a deeply vested interest in the common good and are historically absorbed after the first generation.
It is very, very difficult to work without papers at any meaningful level above the lowest paying jobs. Undocumented immigrants are not trying to sell you insurance, sell you a house, operate on your kidneys or do your taxes. This economy needs immigrants to do the jobs Americans refuse to do. It is an idiotic argument that shows a huge disconnect in how Americans receive the goods and services they have come to depend on, and the source of labor that supplies it, i.e. iceberg lettuce for 80 cents a head or dinner in a nice restaurant for less than $100.
The Social Security Administration has accrued billions of dollars of collected payments from undocumented workers over the years, knowing full well that they will never have to pay this money out. Do you think they do not know this?
The reason this 'block the border' argument is "racist" is beacuse there has been virtually no effort to secure our border with Canada, the 9-11 terrorists entered this country legally and most Americans continue to refuse to absorb immigrants who do not look or sound like themselves.

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» RE: tortilla Posted by: blackinjun
» RE: tortilla Posted by: SekhmetsatRa
» RE: tortilla Posted by: karma_ran_over_dogma
» BS and more BS Posted by: fenix
» RE: tortilla Posted by: Gma1
re: racism: if the shoe fits....
Posted by: halophoenix on Jul 24, 2006 9:53 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
you can't hide it.

Sorry, the author is spot on. Try to deny it as much as you like, but this is one shoe that fits too well to not wear.

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» Right..... Posted by: pzo
Reconquista baby!
Posted by: Iconoclast421 on Jul 24, 2006 12:03 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I sincerely hope all the immigrants, legal and illegal alike, won't come to be blamed for the inevitable implosion of the US economy. No, we have done that to ourselves. If you ask me, the average illegal immigrant who can't construct a grammatically correct english sentence is a step above a lot of americans. Especially the "lets bomb all the I-rabs.... turn em into a parkin lot" idiot redneck trueblood 'merkins that rush out to vote against same sex marriage at any cost. The rediculous arguments, the nonsense, so many completely clueless people supporting a bunch of triggerhappy zionists and neocons who just want to screw us over behind our backs. No, the illegals can't get much worse than that. But I fear they will be blamed for something they did not do.

Our country can handle immigrants. But not if we keep shipping jobs overseas and letting the elite wealthy loot every bit of wealth that we've amassed in this great nation. The rich cannot be allowed to own everything, because it's too easy for them to leave when the going gets rough. And what happens to our country when the rich leave us all hanging here with not a damn dime? Just remember this: jobs are what create long term wealth. And not one immigrant has caused any of the tens of millions of jobs we had to go overseas. You can't say the same for any of the guys in the board rooms.

The only real problem I have with illegal immigration is this idea some of them have... this idea which happens to be sponsored by the mexican version of right wing hate media extremists (picture a spanish speaking Coulter or Limbaugh)... this idea they call La Reconquista. Ever heard of The Plan of San Diego? The people who buy into that nonsense are the mexican equivalent of the typical uninformed uneducated mississippi bush-loving god fearing "lets blow up all the a-rabs and mexicans and those daggone can-ay-diens too." It's important to note that these purely racist thoughts are only ideas... or memes. They are what need to be destroyed, not the people who carry them. As soon as everyone realizes that, we might begin to figure out how to live together in peace.

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» RE: econquista baby! Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: econquista baby! Posted by: ishkabibble
» RE: econquista baby! Posted by: Joshua Holland
» Jeez ... Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: econquista baby! Posted by: ishkabibble
» RE: econquista baby! Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: econquista baby! Posted by: ishkabibble
» RE: econquista baby! Posted by: Joshua Holland
A Modern Day Witchunt?
Posted by: Gravitas on Jul 24, 2006 12:41 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We have heard the term "witchhunt" so often we have become immune to it. From the sociological perspective, a witchhunt is part of a greater phenomena known as a deviance scare. This happens when societies start to fall apart, or change happens too rapidly and norms break down. Society rallies around persecution of the "deviants" to provide itself with temporary unity; the "other" unites the rest. The European witchhunts were said to be in part a result of rapid change that was going on in that period. As the Roman Empire crumbled, the persecution of Christians intensified. Prohibition and McCarthism also took place in decades of change. Right now we have phemomenal change. Both in terms of new technology we have not worked our rules for, and our institutions breaking down. Like the complete loss of credibility of the Catholic Church. We too seem to be engaging in witchhunts. The hysteria over obesity may be part of this phemonema and so may these extreme reactions we have to immigrants. The problem is society can only recognize deviance scares in retrospect, after we have adjusted to the changes and are no longer in immediate danger of social dissolution. Only then can we realize how irrational our fears are, and how innocent people have been demonized for nothing. Not to say there are never valid issues that get exagerated, certainly during McCarthism it was reasonable to be cautious of Communists in an era of cold war. But the fear was taken to levels of hysteria. We may not want open borders, some labor leaders think that too many workers tip the balance in favor of employers. But again, our fears are being taken to levels of hysteria and human beings are treated with cruelity they don't deserve. If we have to rally around something, why not make CO2 the enemy? Maybe we could have a historical first and use the momentium from our hysteria to save the planet.

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It's not right to lie about supposed lying
Posted by: YogiBear on Jul 24, 2006 1:15 PM   
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Studies in state after state show that immigrants pay their fair share of taxes.

Actually, a UNC study proved that for the state of North carolina at least, which has 400,000 illegals, the cost to the state of allowing citizens to remain illegal is higher than the taxes paid. This cost includes education and health care.

"Hispanics, legal and illegal, cost state taxpayers $817 million in 2004, with education and health care being the biggest expenses. Meanwhile, Hispanics generated $756 million in tax revenue. According to the report, that averages out to a cost to the state budget of $102 per Hispanic resident."

http://www.newsobserver.com/1155/story/411982.html

Of course, the newspaper points out that much of the low wages paid to illegals is passed along to the consumer. What is also passed along is wage depression for leggal workers.

But then again, everyone knows that the entire UNC system and the Raleigh News and Observer are just racist.

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Six immigration lies dispelled
Posted by: willymack on Jul 24, 2006 1:48 PM   
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I don't care about any of the above. The truth is that our country already has far too many people as it is. Just look at the legions of the poor people with no medical insurance, dead-end jobs or no jobs, our inadequate and worsening public schools, rampant crime-both on city streets and in government, and a never-ending war against imaginary foes. What's needed is a complete moratorium on immigration from ANYWHERE until such time as


everyone here gets a fair shake and the fools in government are replaced by truly qualified, compassionate, and fair-minded people. Our "frontier" disappeared a long time ago; the wild west of vast empty spaces has gone the way of Hopalong Cassidy. The addition of more people to ANY place only makes things worse-not better.

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» RE: Six immigration lies dispelled Posted by: Econotarian
ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION IS SOLVED EASILY BY ADOPTING
Posted by: SamFox on Jul 24, 2006 2:33 PM   
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Mexico's stance on illegal immigration. Funny how the propaganda machine forgets ILLEGAL and says undocumented.

Mexico says it is a felony to be illegal and you get two MANDITORY years in prison there. Somebody tell Arny S. that naturilized Mexican citizans CANNOT HOLD OFIICE there.
They have troops & high tech survailance on THEIR side of the border.

I would like to see all the pro-ILLEGAL immagration and amnisty supporters PUT UP OR SHUT UP!!!

Invite 15 or 20 illegals to move onto YOUR property. Let them camp in YOUR yard and house. YOU give them access to your kitchen, laundry room, TV, autos--any thing they want YOU SUPPLY!!! Bet you can't invite just one!!!

This article that we are posting about is a BIG FAT DECEPTIVE LIE! Check out

NewsWithViews.com Read Frosty Wooldridge's writings. Also Devvy Kidd and others. Read "Illegals Open Fire..." at alipac.us.

If you can reply without generelizing and name calling fine. Otherwise don't bother. I grew up with Mexican people all my life. Never had a problem except with the Pachuko gangs when I was a kid in Tucson. They showed up to challenge other kids to a rumble, but only when they outnumbered us. I had a fine Mexican gal as my first lover. Some of BEST friends are Mexican & Original Americans. So don't call me racist. It only makes you agenda pushers look more stupid than you already are. And that is a difficult task.

Many LEGALLY naturilised Mexicans are against ILLEGAL immigration. Ceasar Chavaz, the union orginizer, was against ILLEGAL immigration. He said what should be obvious (unless one is determined to PUSH AN AGENDA in spite of real facts) that too many workers drive down wages. That was some years ago!

Our Gov. allows US law to be ignored, their oath of office to be broken because the invasion undermies US sovreingty. Bush & others are trying to force the New World Order on the US this way as they want to force the USA into a union (like the EU). Next step, force US into a One World Goverment. I vote NO, NO , NOOOO! on that!!!

Selling out the ports is only the tip of the treason iceberg they are trying to sink the USA on.

SamFox

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Horrible Article
Posted by: TWilliams on Jul 24, 2006 3:25 PM   
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This article resolved noting.

I am tired of pro-illegal immigrant supporters and their empty arguments. What part of illegal do they not understand?

When people refuse to acknowledge the laws of a given country that country will eventually fall apart - just like America is.

La Raza! "For my race everything for others nothing."

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» RE: Horrible Article Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Horrible Article Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: Horrible Article Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Horrible Article Posted by: numen
» RE: Horrible Article Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Horrible Article Posted by: Ratskii
» Semantics Posted by: YogiBear
It's the meegrants fault!
Posted by: texshelters on Jul 24, 2006 4:27 PM   
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I love you guys. Little guys fightin little guys while us rich folk make millions arming the border, selling security fences and supplyin personel for the border war.

Keep fightin y'all while the billionaires take all yur money. Blame the meegrants and accuse each other of being racist while makin facts up that support yur opinion like "meegrants are takin our jobs" (while we send em overseas), "meegrants cost us money" (while we get multimillion dollar loopholes in the tax code written for us Billionaires), and "meegrants use up our resources" (although they build many of our buildings and clean our houses and pay taxes). Live in fear and hate each other; we get richer while you do it.

We'd hate it if you actually looked at the unfair tax code and stealin us rich are doin with the he'p of our Congress.

For God and country, repeat this montra before you sleep every night: "it's the immigrants fault, it's the immigrants fault, it's the immigrants fault..."

God bless the hate and long live poverty!

Love,
Tex Shelters, Billionaire

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IMMIGRATION (Part 1)
Posted by: Joseph Wythe on Jul 24, 2006 4:31 PM   
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Re: SIX IMMIGRATION LIES, DISPELLED
By Rinku Sen, TomPaine.com. Posted July 24, 2006.

Following is PART 1 of a column that I recently wrote.

IMMIGRATION
by Joseph Henry Wythe

The current tempest over the immigration issue is another dreary re-enactment of previous storms, and while somewhat more dramatic than those that have gone before, this one will likewise get accomplish nothing and fade into history. Why?

Everyone in this country, and many others beyond our borders, has a personal interest in some facet of the immigration problem, and the politicians, bless them, are fearful of losing favor by acting against the interests of any particular block of voters. Consumers want cheap agricultural products. Farmers want cheap labor. The fearful want secure borders. Taxpayers want relief from paying for services to an underclass. The immigrants want jobs, and after they stay awhile, they want better jobs and eventually citizenship. Our labor force is being squeezed by the export of jobs, but will not move to do the menial work of agriculture for low pay. Foreign governments want to get rid of excess population, and we are concerned that this country is being over-run by immigration and too many citizen babies.

In trying to craft an immigration bill that will please everyone, our politicos manage to please no one. The problem is that almost everyone in this country refuses to concern himself with the cause of the problem and to deal with it.

The roots of the problem go deep into our history, probably even earlier than the Stone Age. The urge to gain wealth and power by the use of labor unwillingly provided by the less privileged has shaped history right up to the present. In the Eighteenth Century, the wealthy colonists in America felt the oppression of the even wealthier government of King George the Third and staged a successful revolution. In forming their new government, those former colonists wrote a Constitution which barred all except the landed gentry from participating in the affairs of state. Negroes were hardly considered persons, and it took a terrible Civil War to get rid of chattel slavery.


Part 2 follows.

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IMMIGRATION (Part 2)
Posted by: Joseph Wythe on Jul 24, 2006 4:29 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Re: SIX IMMIGRATION LIES, DISPELLED
By Rinku Sen, TomPaine.com. Posted July 24, 2006.

Following is PART 2 of a column that I recently wrote.

IMMIGRATION
by Joseph Henry Wythe

However, economic slavery continued, not only for the blacks but also for the vast multitude of workers who provided the manpower (and woman power and child labor) for the great industrial revolution. The lowest class of these workers was the newly arrived immigrants - the Chinese, the Irish, the Poles, the Oklahoma dustbowl refugees, and many other groups right up to the influx of Latinos that are now our primary concern. The derogatory names given to these various minorities indicate the contempt held for those less fortunate.

Meanwhile, the already wealthy and powerful have been quite creative in gaining ever more wealth and power.
The robber barons of the Nineteenth Century were pikers compared to what we have here today. Corporations are considered "persons" but are given privileges vastly greater than any individual. We now have the best government that money can buy, all three branches. Will this government do anything to upset the status quo?
Silly question. But I digress.

If we are at all serious about resolving the immigration problem, we must inquire, "why do those people want to come to the United States?" If they lived comfortably in their homelands, would they not wish to remain there? Why are conditions there so unbearable that those peasants reluctantly leave their homes and loved ones behind to get work elsewhere and send the money home, or to bring their families with them?

Have we ever considered that the cheap bananas and other produce that we enjoy were harvested in Latin America by cheap labor on the vast plantations of American corporations? Do we approve of our government propping up corrupt dictators or overthrowing popularly elected governments dedicated to returning the corporate lands to the peasants who once owned them? If such lands were put into production of crops that are so desperately needed by the peasants, how would we react to paying higher prices for food grown closer to home? Would we be willing to pay for food harvested by American workers attracted by fair wages? And if all workers were paid decent wages for their efforts, would the overall economy benefit to the extent that we would all be ahead in spite of the increased food prices?

If we really lived according to the moral teachings of Jesus, immigration would no longer be a problem for us.

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» RE: IMMIGRATION (Part 2) Posted by: blackinjun
The race card, again?
Posted by: mcgaw on Jul 24, 2006 4:58 PM   
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Why is that we law-abiding citizens are "racist" just because we don't want to keep picking up the slack for the illegals in our communities? The key word is ILLEGAL. What is so challenging about that word to understand? I invite you to Avon Park, Florida, where I have lived for many years in the city limits. Read the proposed ordinance. Come sit in our local ER and watch the influx of illegals using the hospital as a clinic and not paying a cent. Walk down the block from where I live, and witness what a mess becomes of an R-1 zoned community with four families living it (plural). Listen to the grove owners and dairy farmers talk about the value of every human. Then, ask them why they pay such a pittance and no benefits and exploit for such a cheap labor force and watch them stammer. Call my local county sheriff's office and get the crime statistics and see the high percentage of crime from the migrant population.

It's easy to have all kinds of opinions, when you don't personally experience this day to day. So, come on down for an extended visit and I'll show you exactly what our problems are. And you can determine for yourself how much of a "racist" I am. I'm truly sorry that Mexico (Mexicans are the main country from where our local illegal aliens come, that's a fact, but other communities may differ) sucks so badly that poor people are fleeing that country in droves. But Avon Park isn't suited to carry the huge burden these illegals bring about. How about the agriculturists paying them more so that they can afford to pay their bills? contribute to the schools where they pay their bills? pay their doctors? If I approached anybody reading this post and asked for a free anything that you may all sell, would I automatically get it? I doubt it.

When you have a bunch of illegals willing to work for next to nothing because they're learned the system, the prices are driven down and no employer will hire a legal citizen. Read the Avon Park ordinance. It's tough, but it's fair. It punished the employers, who are already breaking federal laws by giving jobs to people who are here ILLEGALLY. It doesn't say nobody can speak anything but English in Avon Park! Read the ordinance! Yo hablo espaƱol porque soy medio salvadoreƱa. Mi mama nacio y fue criada en El Salvador y yo tengo dos pasaportes. But I don't expect city services to be in other languages, either!

It's very easy for all of us to opine from afar. But rarely do many people with strong opinions truly live the experience. I spoke to a very idealistic young man from the Tampa Tribune today, here in Avon Park to cover the council meeting on the ordinance, and he felt comfortable in his knowledge of the area, having been to this city twice. TWICE. Pathetic.

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"Distract"? But who's doing the distracting?
Posted by: karma_ran_over_dogma on Jul 24, 2006 5:16 PM   
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As someone posted above, a lot of straw men here to be knocked down, plus the usual canard that any concern about illegal immigration = racism. But at the end we see the curious new mantra that this issue is the right's attempt to "distract" us from our proper pursuits. Really? On this one the right is quite unorganized! Bush is happy with the status quo in order to keep wages low & big business pals happy. I'm as big a Bush-basher as anyone, but he doesn't seem racist personally; he speaks Spanish almost as badly as he speaks English & has a Mexican sister-in-law; he wants the future "big tent" to include socially conservative Latinos who will oppose abortion, gay rights etc. Tancredo & company can be called many things (racist? sure, some of them) but are they really using this as a "wedge" to "distract" US? Are they even that bright, & are we paranoid enough to think that? We have plenty of legitimate concerns re: immigration but this supposed "distraction" isn't one of them.

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It all depends
Posted by: JPHickey on Jul 24, 2006 7:51 PM   
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Here in Sedona, illegal immigration is not an issue for most. Why should it be since the cost of living is so high here that even teachers and other professionals cannot afford to live here. Illegal aliens are just a lark. Cheap labor mostly unseen and unheard. And illegal aliens are granted more TLC from the Catholic Church and the few actual needy citizens could use a little help.

Legal workers in this area are so browbeaten allready that they won't dare saying anything that might offend the overlords (aka employers). In this area workers have few rights and can be dismissed at the will of the employer.

It works like a feudal system!

What gets me is that when a citizen applies for a job, much verifiable background information is required, but somehow or other, illegal, illiterate aliens have a way of showing up sooner or later doing these same "demanding" jobs. I wonder what kind of character references they have? Or is it that they work harder for less?

At the food bank, poverty stricken senior citizens now stand in line behind illegal aliens. Anyone needing help in this area will end up standing at the end of a line of illegal aliens most of whom don't speak English. Yet, somehow or other they manage to always have the "right" paperwork.

I would like to suggest that the author really should read the Arizona Republic regularly. I am always saving articles I find there. The latest was on the coyotes, drugs, murder, and various and sundry other crimes. Other articles cover Hispanic citizens's objections to illegal immigration. Less often the threat of chronic communicable diseases such as TB, hepetitus, AIDS, and who knows what.

Hiring illegal aliens as housekeepers is risky busienss, indeed!

As far as the "wedge" aspect is concerned, as far as I'm concerned, that's a moot point. In Arizona at least, this has reached the crisis level. This is not seen as a good thing except by those who are cashing in on it. You know who they are.

Note: Calderon supporters in this country are also well educated and very vocal in supporting illegal immigration because Mexico's advantaged class benefits from it. If you find yourself in a debate with a Mexican spokesperson insist on finding out whether they support Calderon or Obrador. It is a great litmus test.

We have reached critical mass, and I, for one have left the Democratic Party because of it is controlled by illegal immigration apologists. This whole big mess sucks and I'd like to see busiensses who employ them fined enough to hurt, like at least $10,000, asap!

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Some random thoughts
Posted by: Ratskii on Jul 24, 2006 9:35 PM   
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I grew up in Arizona and had a wide variety of experiences with the Latino population -- from very bad to very good. I particularly remember one summer I tried to work the melon harvest. I clearly wasn't prepared for the constant bending over in the 100 degree plus weather and the braceros on team recognized it instantly. They gave me water, salt pills and helped me keep up. I'll never forget their kindness.

I still hold out a little hope that ALMO will somehow overturn the recent election in Mexico. I was very interested in how many of the individuals on the right, who are very angry over illegal immigration, were rabidly against his candidacy. He was the one politician who had actually pledged to do something about illegal immigration -- stop it at the source by bringing the poor into the economy there.

The conservatives and others who wish to reduce (I doubt anyone will ever end it completely) illegal immigration do have a point -- something needs to be done. They are just looking at the wrong solutions. There is no way that we are going to deport eleven to twelve million people. The cost to our economy would be enormous. The cost to our civil liberties (to track them all down and detain them) would be unacceptable.

How about we start trending the right direction. 1) elect representatives and senators in the coming election who aren't supportive of GWB. 2) suggest that they amend NAFTA and CAFTA so that they are not harming the Mexican and Central American economies. 3) Put pressure on congress people to work on programs to help those displaced by the influx of illegal immigrants--especially veterans. 4) Place an extra tax American based corporations that don't pay their foreign workers a fair wage. 5) Invest more money in our neighbor to the South, in a way that will help to create good paying jobs.

I'm sure other people can think of other things. isoslationism isn't feasable, but like the oath doctors take, we must first think in terms of doing no harm. We could easily fund some of my suggestions by pulling out of Iraq and taxing the very wealthy at the rate the middle class is taxed.

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» RE: Some random thoughts Posted by: YogiBear
» HEY BOO BOO Posted by: YogiBear
Definitely a drain on public coffers
Posted by: tjohnson on Jul 25, 2006 8:12 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Granted illegal immigrants are not the only ones who use public funds, but when it costs me $15,000 to deliver a baby after the insurance pays out, and I pay $700 per month for that insurance, and the Mexican immigrant down the street pays $250 because she has no insurance, there is a HUGE problem there.

Yes, they pay taxes, but since they don't make much they don't pay much. It certainly doesn't cover the difference between what they pay in and what they use.

And, when 85 new, non-english speaking kindergarteners show up on the first day of school, unregistered, and the school has to try and hire 3 new teachers unexpectedly, don't tell me that's not a drain on public funds.

And, those children will qualify for free lunch, free pre and after school care, free clothing, etc. Don't tell me there is not a drain on public funds.

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» just agreeing with you Posted by: planet doomed
Civil Dis?
Posted by: Burton on Jul 25, 2006 2:11 PM   
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The question that I see many Americans ask is this: If immigrants can break the law, why should the citizenry obey the law?

This is a good question, by the way, and I am interested in the pro-immigrant position on this.

For example, would you have no problem if I brought an un-licensed firearm to school? Is it OK because this is an "undocumented" gun?

Is it OK for me to refuse to pay income taxes on under-the-counter earnings as this is "undocumented" income.

If I am a business owner, can I hire cheap immigrant labor without checking their residency (as required by law) as these are "undocumented" workers?

This is a real question and I am interested in real answers. If we are pushing the right of some people to break the law, and of course there is always a case for civil disobedience, what is to stop everyone else from breaking the law?

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» RE: Civil Dis? Posted by: Joshua Holland
This article is highly misleading.
Posted by: bwd on Jul 28, 2006 7:06 AM   
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The numbers he states are misleading.

According to a 2005 study by Physicians for a National Health Program, immigrants, including the undocumented, use fewer health care resources than native-born citizens.

I don't have a problem with legal immigrants, obviously. I have a problem with illegal ones. Why not concentrate the statistics on the illegal immigrants? Because if you do that, you'll find that each illegal immigrant costs the tax payers more than their economic output is worth. That is from the state of California. When education, health, and other government services are combined, illegal immigration is a huge scam; it is a government subsidy for corporations. It is costing Americans a lot of money.

That's why articles like this are so misleading (on purpose). They start out with the premise that illegal immigation isn't harmful, and then they back that up with statistics on both legal and illegal immigration. Stick to the stats on illegal immigration instead of diluting the statistics with legal immigrants too, who actually do contribute more to American than they take from it.

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Immigration
Posted by: adri on Jul 28, 2006 3:59 PM   
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Sir,

I have to comment on your article about immigration, but first I would like to ask you is.. Where are you living at now?
You made two comments in your article :

1) Undocumented workers "Pay into the Social Securty threw false numbers.

My response: I live in Somerton Arizona, and yes they purchase false social security numbers and work under them. Sometimes people"rent" their social security numbers.
But does that make it right? What about the thousand that do not? What about the ones who work and get payed in cash?

2) Illegals "Use fewer Health care reources than the Navtive born citizens."
Again Where are you living? In Somerton Arizona about half of the population Is on Government health services and are undocumented. Mostly all illegals come across the border to have their babies here and leave. But cross the border once a month to collect their WIC and Food stamps, cash assistant. They come over to Our country, why should I learn to speak Spanish? If they want to live and reside here than they should learn our ways. Like on Fourth of July Do Not Burn My Flag!!!! I don't mind if they come Legal and work to give their children a better life. Maybe about 1/4 of the people come to work and to make a better life . But most come running from there own countries because they killed or rapped or broke a law. And they come here and continue to break the law. But if they are arrested it's always"racial" not everything is racial, I'm tired that... that's an easy way out. I get so frustrated when I call an automated service and It's always "Press 1 for spanish, Press 2 for english." I'm in the USA why should I press 1 or 2? When you go to Mexico you do not have a choice, you either speak spanish or you learn quick. We cater to them, and to everyone else. Except to our own. This is only my Opinion, I am just tired of seeing some illegals take advantage of our system and some US citizens also. You should with all due respect come down to Somerton and Yuma Arizona and see in person how many illegals would much rather get $700.00 in foodstamps for "Free" than to work for it. I apologize to anyone who reads this and gets upset or offended. But this is just the way I feel. If I'm wrong then I pray that God help me with this.. And if I'm right.. God help the United States Of America.

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It's about the rule of law
Posted by: poelmanc on Jul 28, 2006 5:15 PM   
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Arguing about whether "illegal immigrants" help or hurt the economy is a fallacious argument to begin with. Unless you're making the argument that illegal immigrants somehow help the economy more than if they were legal immigrants, then economic arguments are a silly way to defend illegal immigration.

The way this country makes crossing the border without a visa illegal, yet then turns a blind eye to those who violate it, is absurd. If the U.S. really wants another 12 million immigrants, we should pass a law to increase legal immigration quotas and then have them apply like everyone else, so we can select immigrants properly based on their applications as we've done for hundreds of years. The current system selects for migration by those who have shown only one thing: a willingness to completely disregard the laws of this country by crossing the border illegally, working illegally, and often using forged documents to obtain jobs and governmnent services. Yet we're told by the pro-illegals that these criminal aliens will become model citizens? These criminal aliens have demonstrated their contempt for U.S. law by coming here in the first place.

And those who holler "racism" as an excuse for defending law-breakers are being patently absurd. Living in New Mexico I have plenty of Hispanic friends whose American ancestry goes back generations further than mine, as well as friends who recently migrated from Mexico - legally - by getting an H1B work permit and then applying for permanent residency. These are the kinds of people that I want coming to this country, not those who break the law to come here and then continue to break the law daily by working here, using forged documents and stolen security numbers, and lying about their status on a regular basis.

If we really want to solve this problem, we need to do four things:

1) Use the right term -- "criminal alien" -- to describe these people who flout the law on a daily basis by crossing the border illegally, working here illegally, using forged documents, using stolen social security numbers, lying on government documents, and so forth, rather than absurd euphemisms such as "undocumented workers" that make it sound as if they just forgot to sign some piece of paper at the border.

2) Levy enormous fines on anyone who hires these criminal aliens

3) Ensure that state and local police also round up and detain criminal aliens, not just the border patrol

4) Increase quotas for legal immigration, whether via the standard H1B process or through a special "guest worker" program that's only available to those who have not previously violated U.S. immigration laws, to make up for the 12 million criminals that we'll expell from the country during this process.

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» RE: It's about the rule of law Posted by: symcokid
» RE: It's about the rule of law Posted by: LizAnglelo
UncleWhitey
Posted by: UncleWhitey on Jul 29, 2006 9:03 AM   
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Ever notice that when things don't go the way minorities want they always try that racist bit? Typical.

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» RE: UncleWhitey Posted by: blackinjun
» RE: UncleWhitey Posted by: symcokid
» RE: UncleWhitey Posted by: blackinjun
» RE: UncleWhitey Posted by: adri
This is the second article today that is crappy journalism
Posted by: planet doomed on Jul 31, 2006 12:47 AM   
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First I read that Baby Bling article, which would have been more appropiate in The National Enquirer, and now this. Is it just me now noticing, or have you guys always been this bad?

I think some source citations are in order for this one. I'm tired right now and don't feel like doing your job for you, but this article remind me more of truthiness than truth.

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Illegal Immigration Suppresses Wages
Posted by: unlawflcombatnt on Jul 31, 2006 9:41 PM   
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The biggest problem created by uncontrolled illegal immigration is wage suppression. According to economics professor George Borjas, immigration reduces the average annual earnings of U.S.-born men by an estimated $1,700, or roughly 4%. (See ABC News Story "Immigration Has Mixed Effects" at Immigration

The direct link to Dr. Borjas original article is at:
Borjas

If that reduction is applied to the roughly 143 million employed Americans, that reduces aggregate annual worker income by $243 billion, or $0.243 trillion. That's roughly 2% of our $12 trillion GDP. That's a loss in consumer spending of $243 billion (less taxes). Given that our entire GDP growth in 2005 was $384 billion, this is a significant amount. Considering that consumer spending is approximately 70% of GDP, that makes the "growth" in consumer spending around $269 billion.

Again, the loss of that $243 billion is no small amount. And it is also $243 billion less money that could have been taxed, costing the Federal government anywhere between $36-61 billion per year. (Increasing the taxable income of a single taxpayer making $42,500/year by $1700 increases Federal income tax by $425. Increasing taxable income of a married taxpayer filing making $42,500/year by $1700 increases Federal income tax by $255. Multiplying these numbers by 143 million amounts to $61 billion and $36 billion, respectively. Thus the income tax revenue lost is somewhere in between.)

Right-wingers will argue that this wage suppression is offset by business profits, and that these profits fuel investment. But investment capital is OVER-abundant at present. Increasing this excess even further will not result in more capital investment. It will result in higher CEO salaries, further overinvestment in the stock market, and further investment in foreign production facilities, the latter of which puts even further downward pressure on American wages.

Furthermore, business profits don't fuel consumer spending. And consumer spending is the engine that drives our economy, not investment. Without consumer spending, there are no returns on investment. And if no returns are anticipated on investment, no investment takes place.

The immigration-fueled reduction in wages does NOT help our economy. It hurts it. It reduces aggregate consumer income and the consumer spending it finances. The reduction in consumer spending reduces consumer production demand, further reducing demand for the labor to provide that production. The reduction in labor demand drives down employment and wages. The resultant labor demand reduction further reduces aggregate consumer income and further reduces consumer purchasing power.

As consumer buying power declines, so do investment opportunities, since those opportunities are created by consumer demand for production. Thus the increased profits resulting from reduction in labor costs create even more excess capital, while reducing investment opportunities still further.

Does anyone really think that wage suppression is "good" for the economy? Doesn't someone have to purchase the goods produced for business to profit? Won't reducing consumer income also reduce consumer goods purchasing? Won't a decline in consumer goods purchasing reduce business revenues and reduce potential profits? Once again, is immigration-fueled reduction in worker/consumer income really "good" for the economy?

EconomicPopulistCommentary

EconomicPatriotForum

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THIS ARTICLE IS ONE BIG LIE. PROOF? HERE IT IS...
Posted by: SamFox on Aug 9, 2006 6:22 PM   
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Go to immigrationsHumanCost.org Under their banner there are some very intersting catagories concerning problems illegal immigrants are causing.

Read "Highland Park Trial Paints A Portrait Of Hate..." at latimes.com.

Also at NewsWithViews.com read Frosty Wooldridge's articles. Also Devvy Kidd's.

Then there is NumbersUSA & alipac.us.

I don't expect many who support illegal immigration & amnisty will bother, but here's your chanch to see where enforcement of immigration law proponants are coming from!


SamFox

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Breaking the Law
Posted by: adri on Aug 9, 2006 6:57 PM   
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Does anybody know what would happen if one of us broke and Immigration law in Mexico? We punish our own criminals why should it be any different with the illegals?

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