Home
Archive
Newsletters
Video
Blogs
Discuss
About
Search
Donate
Advertise

Israel Takes a Stupid Pill

By Larry C. Johnson, Booman Tribune. Posted July 17, 2006.


Unlike the Egyptian and Syrian armies in 1973, Hamas and Hezbollah will not easily fold and cannot be defeated in a seven-day war.
071706_story3
Israel Takes a Stupid Pill

Share and save this post:

      

      

Share on Facebook       

AlterNet Social Networks:
follow us on twitter
find us on Facebook

In Special Coverage

Belief:
What if People Actually Treated Religion as Just a Metaphor (Like Trekkies and Secular Jews)?
Greta Christina

Corporate Accountability and WorkPlace:
15 Signs American Society Is Coming Apart at the Seams
David DeGraw

DrugReporter:
When It’s Crunch Time at College, Students Turn to Adderall
Erik Hayden

Environment:
20 Weird, Crazy Ideas for Helping the Earth

Food:
The War on Soy: Why the 'Miracle Food' May Be a Health Risk and Environmental Nightmare
Tara Lohan

Health and Wellness:
Pharmaceutical Giant Paid $500,000 to Psychiatrist Who Used Chicago's Poor as Guinea Pigs
Christina Jewett and Sam Roe

Immigration:
Dobbs' Resignation Was Long Overdue
Janet Murguía

Media and Technology:
Is Right-Wing Media Hustler Trying to "Blackmail" Obama's Attorney General over ACORN Videos?
David Edwards, Muriel Kane

Movie Mix:
The Yes Men: Pranksters Out to Fix the World
Mark Engler

Politics:
New Right-Wing Craze: Using Bible Quote to Pray That Obama’s 'Days Be Few'
Amanda Terkel

Reproductive Justice and Gender:
Hey Guys, Don't Want Kids? A Vascetomy Is Probably the Way to Go
Anna Clark

Rights and Liberties:
Economic Crisis Is Getting Bloody -- Violent Deaths Are Now Following Evictions, Foreclosures and Job Losses
Nick Turse

Sex and Relationships:
How Abstinence-Only Programs Perpetuate Dangerous Stereotypes
Martha Kempner

Take Action:
G-20 Meetings: Nothing Much Happened in the Suites, and There Was Too Much Punch in the Streets
Laura Flanders

Water:
Poseidon's Financial Shell Game: Why Is a Private Desalination Plant Asking for Public Money?
Peter Gleick

World:
Army Sends Mom to Afghanistan, Infant to Protective Services
Dahr Jamail

More stories by Larry C. Johnson

Advertisement
Upcoming AlterNet stories on Digg

Apparently not content to let the US do a self-immolation act in the Middle East by itself, Israel decided to set itself on fire by invading Lebanon. Burn baby burn? Like George Bush, Israel's Prime Minister, Ehud Olmert, never served in a combat unit and launched military operations without thinking the matter through. In fact, Olmert reportedly never even served in the military. I raise this because there is one simple question Israel cannot answer about the current operations-what is their strategic military objective. Olmert has somehow persuaded the Israeli military to ignore strategy, think tactically, and in the process become really stupid. The events in the next several weeks will expose as myth the canard that you can secure a nation by killing terrorists. No you can't.

Killing "terrorists" has a place in policy but it is not a strategic military obective. It is a tactical objective and may serve political purposes, but achieves little in terms of securing Israel. Israel is attacking targets in Lebanon like a drunken sailor in a bar fight. Flailing about, causing significant damage, hitting innocent bystanders, and generally making a mess of things. This is not the Israeli military that pulled off the brilliant and daring raid at Entebbe.

What about Hamas and Hezbollah?

They are not terrorists. They carry out terrorist attacks, but they are not terrorists. They are something far more dangerous. They are a fully functioning political, social, religious, and military organizations that use terrorism tactics, but they are far more formidible than terrorist groups like Al Qaeda or the Basque Terrorist Organization. They do have the resources and the personnel to project force, sustain operations, and cannot be easily defeated. Unlike the Egyptian and Syrian armies in 1973, Hamas and Hezbollah will not easily fold and cannot be defeated in a seven day war. If that is the assumption among some Israeli military planners it is a crazy fantasy.

While most folks in the United States buy into the Hollywood storyline of poor little Israel fighting for its survival against big, bad Muslims, the reality unfolding on our TV screens shows something else. Exodus, starring Paul Newman, is ancient history. Hamas and Hezbollah attacked military targets; kidnapping soldiers on military patrols may be an act of war and a provocation, but it is not terrorism. (And yes, Hezbollah and Hamas have carried out terrorist attacks in the past against Israeli civilians. I'm not ignoring those acts, I condemn them, but we need to understand what the dynamics are right now.) Israel is not attacking the individuals who hit their soldiers. Israel is engaged in mass punishment.

How did Israel respond? They bombed civilian targets and civilian infrastructure and have killed many civilians. Let's see if I have this right.

The Arab "terrorists" attack military units, destroy at least one tank, and are therefore terrorists. Israel retaliates by launching aerial, naval, and artillery bombardments of civilian areas and they are engaging in self-defense. If we are unable to recognize the hypocrisy of this construct then we ourselves are so enveloped by propaganda and emotion that, like the Israelis, Hezbollah, and Hamas, we can't think rationally. We can only think in terms of tribalism and revenge.

Iran, meanwhile, is sitting in the catbird's seat. They have a well-trained and highly competent surrogate force in Hezbollah. Hezbollah's successful attack on Friday on an Israeli naval vessel is a reminder that Hezbollah is not a bunch of crazy kids carrying RPGs and wearing flip flops. I would be willing to wager that at least one Iranian military advisor was helping Hezbollah launch the missile that hit the Israeli ship. But Iran is doing more than simply engage in tit-for-tat. They are thinking strategically.

The events unfolding in Iraq and Lebanon are going Tehran's way. The United States is being portrayed in the world media as a government that tolerates and excuses attacks on civilian populations. The perception becomes the reality and the ability of the United States to rally support among the Russians, the Chinese, and even the French becomes more impaired. We need the international community to deal effectively with nuclear proliferation in North Korea and Iran. Now, we will be bogged down trying to defend Israel from an angry international community.     

In the past, the United States had enough credibility on both sides and kept enough of a distance during these blood fueds so that we could intervene and prevent the fighting from escalating into a gigantic war. It appears that there is no one in the Bush Administration who can step up and intervene to calm the situation. Hell, with John Bolton and Elliot Abrams leading the charge, we are Israel's enablers.

Former Senator Fred Thompson played a U.S. Navy Admiral in The Hunt for Red October. While speaking about escalating tensions as the United States and the Soviet Union chased a renegade submarine, he said: "This business will get out of control. It will get out of control and we'll be lucky to live through it."

Those words are relevant today. Let's hope and pray they don't come to pass.

Digg!    Share on facebook   submit to reddit    Bookmark on Delicious   Stumble This  

Liked this story? Get top stories in your inbox each week from AlterNet! Sign up now »


Advertisement
Advertisement

 

Comments Turn comments off sitewide Give us feedback »
Comments closed.
The comments for this story have been closed. Thank you to everyone who participated.
View:
Great Article
Posted by: monkeyinchief on Jul 17, 2006 12:33 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's refreshing to see someone put the situation in a strategic perspective. What's bothered me from the begining is that Hezbollah knew exactly now Israel would react because of the similar situation in Gaza only a few days before. Hezbollah would have only made their provocation if they believed the Israeli response would work to their advantage.

» RE: Great Article Posted by: rwinbush
» Long Live Palestine Posted by: dancingcloud
» RE: Great Article Posted by: Wacre
» RE: Great Article Posted by: cadabra
It is a sad day when
Posted by: Joe Ox on Jul 17, 2006 12:50 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When a country is attacked and they must measure their response with an eye toward who they will alienate, how everyone around the world will feel, and how it may damage the battle of public relations.
As an individual, if my family member is murdered, I have no legal right to go and kill the killer. But, once discovered, the killer will be brought to justice by the police, either executed or imprisoned. In the case of battling Arab terrorists, who are the police? Who can Israel call to enforce the law here? Who would step in and see top it that crimes are punished? Imagine members of your family kept being killed, week after week, and you were just told to sit tight and not do anything. You call the police and they say you had better not react, you will irritate the killers and create generations more killers. At some point I think you might just start to shoot back, maybe even wrecklessly.

» RE: It is a sad day when Posted by: prod
» RE: It is a sad day when Posted by: brunowe
» RE: It is a sad day when Posted by: esactun
» RE: It is a sad day when sickosleaze Posted by: ladybug1@carrollsweb.com
» RE: You said Posted by: deo508
» RE: You said Posted by: codingguy
» RE: You said Posted by: deo508
» Stuck Posted by: russianblue1
» I believe, by your posts, you are Posted by: russianblue1
» RE: You said Posted by: amatullah
» RE: It is a sad day when Posted by: caitlin
» Hey Joe ... Posted by: cold2touch
» RE: It is a sad day when Posted by: Glennk1949
Re: Joe Ox
Posted by: kenhymes on Jul 17, 2006 1:21 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Joe, your analogy is full of holes. Israel is not a person, it's a country. Countries that are attacked in criminal ways (and let's remember that unlike the Palestinian suicide bombers, Hezbollah has recently largely attacked military targets), never get the right to bomb civilian areas indiscriminately. It's a war crime when the US does it, it's a war crime when Israel does it.

Anyway, why does the country with the largest military and best airforce in the region get to play the defenseless victim? Every country of any size can point to someone in the world who hates them and says threatening things about them, and Israel is far from alone in being attacked with illegal terror tactics (ask Pakistan and India and Colombia and many others how things are going). The Holocaust was one of the vast tragedies of the 20th Century (on a short list that should include the genocide of 3 million Vietnamese, the mass purges of Stalin and Mao, and the Armenian massacres - if I've missed something, make your own list), but it cannot be used forever as a justification for every stupid and evil thing successive Israeli administrations decide to do.

You know that the vast majority of victims have been Palestinians, not Israelis. Some suicidal jihadist blows themselves and a few other people in a market or cafe (a horrible evil thing, and there's no explaining it, not enough compassion in the world, for those whose family members are killed or maimed), and Israel's response, over and over again (like the US military in Iraq) is to bomb civilian areas and threaten and humiliate people who have nothing to do with the conflict. Thus increasing the base of indirect support for the extremists, rather than isolating them by treating a crime as a crime. You cannot ignore that there is racism and indifference to human suffering at work here. Collective punishment is both a moral and legal crime, and it is a tactical error of the worst kind.

It has never worked and it never will work. It's degrading the democracy, the civil discourse, and the humanity of both of our nations. Justifying this kind of disproportionate violence with "common sense" analogies about individual situations is of no help whatsoever, and masks the ethical and tactical issues in a fog of B.S.

» RE: Joe Ox Posted by: deo508
» RE: Joe Ox Posted by: andrewgirma
» RE: Joe Ox Posted by: deo508
» RE: e: Joe Ox Posted by: jbloggz
Monday morning armchair quarterbacks are a dime a dozen.
Posted by: Sojourner on Jul 17, 2006 2:59 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Lose the sympathetic history of Israel's enemies. We all know there are no saints in the near East.

If you can make the case that Israel only opts for violence and does not try diplomacy, I will listen. But you can never make such a case. The fact that diplomacy never works without an iron fist in the velvet glove is something we all know.

The glove is lovely. The fist is ugly. So what else is new?

» Spare me Posted by: russianblue1
» RE: Spare me Posted by: codingguy
Regarding those military targets
Posted by: Jasem on Jul 17, 2006 3:01 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
From what I have seen in the news, Hizbollah killed 8 Israeli civilians in a rocket attack. That is not a military target. Why does Hizbollah target civilians and don't you think it would be cleverer (if they had to hit anything) to just hit military targets? Then they wouldn't look like such a big bunch of assholes on the world scene. Or do they not even care what people think. And what do you think all this overreacting by the Israelis is about? What's their plan, really? Not the Ilad Shalit story please, some insight if anyone might humour me.
P.S. America sucks balls.

The events unfolding...in Lebanon are going Tehran's way
Posted by: Jasem on Jul 17, 2006 3:12 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How do you figure that?

Frackin' brilliant article!
Posted by: Ghoulman on Jul 17, 2006 3:32 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
especially this bit... The Arab "terrorists" attack military units, destroy at least one tank, and are therefore terrorists. Israel retaliates by launching aerial, naval, and artillery bombardments of civilian areas and they are engaging in self-defense. If we are unable to recognize the hypocrisy of this construct then we ourselves are so enveloped by propaganda and emotion that, like the Israelis, Hezbollah, and Hamas, we can't think rationally. We can only think in terms of tribalism and revenge.

Though I could do without the Tom Clancy reference. Blech! :p

» selective thinking Posted by: AdamBaum
» RE: selective thinking Posted by: Ghoulman
» RE: selective thinking Posted by: codingguy
» RE: selective thinking Posted by: deo508
» RE: selective thinking Posted by: Ghoulman
» RE: selective thinking Posted by: IanA
» RE: selective thinking Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: selective thinking Posted by: Shehova
» RE: selective thinking Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: selective thinking Posted by: Ghoulman
» RE: selective thinking Posted by: IanA
» RE: selective thinking Posted by: Ghoulman
» RE: selective thinking Posted by: codingguy
» RE: selective thinking Posted by: deo508
Millions of unemployed men and women ready to die in jihad? Right?
Posted by: Sojourner on Jul 17, 2006 3:47 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Does anyone deny that Isreal's enemies are eager to die in battle? Does anyone deny that dying in battle brings no special 'spiritual' reward to Jews?

Stop treating the near East as if it were a kids' fight, where Tommy says that Johnny hit him first, but Johnny says that Tommy hit him first. We all know that when either one gets hit, they will hit back.

Where does the 'god's eye' perspective about who is right and who is wrong come from? When did any of the participants in the war ask for outsiders' opinions, because they would listen to that?

I learned long ago to stay out of other people's wars. Anyone who doesn't sucks the Stupid Pill big time.

» I deny Posted by: LeonDion
I think America is taking the stupid pill given by Dr. Izrael
Posted by: deo508 on Jul 17, 2006 5:31 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is a pretty interesting article. But if the Izrael Lobby didn't have such a firm grip on the throats of U.S. politicians then we would not be having thbis discussion, and probalby ot the wars we are in.
America is taking the stupid pill. We, our politicians, have put the interests of a foreign nation ahead of our own.

» Spare us your Posted by: russianblue1
Look on the Bright Side.
Posted by: douglashoyt on Jul 17, 2006 6:41 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In a trillion years, no one in this universe will get a damn.

» RE: Look on the Bright Side. Posted by: Pickles78
» RE: Look on the Bright Side. Posted by: symcokid
» RE: Look on the Bright Side. Posted by: jbloggz
» RE: Look on the Bright Side. Posted by: cold2touch
Let's have a fair fight.
Posted by: humanity101 on Jul 17, 2006 7:06 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Let Russia, China, and Iran supply Hamas and Hezbolla with sophisticated weapons the way the U.S. supplied the Taliban with stinger missiles to shoot down Soviet planes. The world needs another super power to balance things out. Imagine if Hamas and Hezbolla have fighter jets, tanks, warships, cruise missils etc... I would assume they would be more accurate in taking down the Israeli's goverment buildings, the homes of their ministers etc... and at least appear to avoid civilian targets. At this point, I would assume the militants would acquire personal vehicles, body armors etc... to protect themselves and not blowing themselves up in order to kill their enemies. When you are being occupied, oppressed and humiliated daily, anything goes. When the situation gets desperate, humanity, ethics, morality etc... goes out the window. Of course any act of destruction of human lives must be condemned, but throwing more fuel into the fire would not make it stop. You can make a bigger fire, but in the end, you get burned too. Those Isrealis who support their military's destruction of the Lebannese deserve no sympathy. They deserve it. Let them kill each other. Until someone learns the lesson, history will keep repeating itself.

» RE: Let's have a fair fight. Posted by: symcokid
Typical Alternet droppings
Posted by: zelosfsu81 on Jul 17, 2006 8:44 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Has anybody ever questioned why ALTERNET begins blogs with articles from only one point of view? This method is anti-democratic, anti american, and anti-progressive(even though i'm sure theythink they are). Sad excuse for left wing politics. Shame on ALTERNET. The articles are ALL diatribes and do not represent any thing close to true journalism.
ALL these alternet bloggers feed of alternets hatred and then attack dissent by name calling. FOX watcher or likudniks or bushies, or IDF blah blah blah. The scariest thing to me is that the Left has now become a training ground for the regrowth and perpetuation of antisemitism. How bizarre is this being that the Jews have always headed progressive liberal leaning movements. This development is similar to the history of the NAACP. Jews begin organize and champion the NAACP and then are turned on when israel comes into the picture. Antisemitism is alive and strong and seems to find its way into the most peculiar of places. VIVA alternet, viva ANTISEMITISM - Death to the dissenting voice!! Death to Israel death to America!!! Death to the world!!!

» RE: Typical Alternet droppings Posted by: codingguy
» attention CODINGGUY Posted by: zelosfsu81
» RE: attention CODINGGUY Posted by: codingguy
» Assuming, of course, Posted by: russianblue1
» RE: Typical Alternet droppings Posted by: zelosfsu81
» RE: Typical Alternet droppings Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Typical Alternet droppings Posted by: Glennk1949
» Learn to follow a thread Posted by: Disputo
» RE: Learn to follow a thread Posted by: codingguy
» RE: Typical Alternet droppings Posted by: Robert Stevens
» RE: Typical Alternet droppings Posted by: FedererFan
What does 'terrorism' mean, anyhow?
Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Jul 17, 2006 10:19 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I suppose now would be a good time to rehash the last few thousand years of MidEast history and solve all the problems of the past - for example, the founding of Israel is a mixed story, involving a few fascist elements as well as a Marcus Garvey-style "Return to Africa" type movement - but that's the confused history of the 20th century. You can't change the past, but you can work towards a livable future.

Oddly enough, right before this latest warfare broke out, Hamas had drafted a proposal to recognize the state of Israel - apparently something various people on all sides didn't want to see happen. Bush and his 'hands-off' approach, Sharon's deliberately provoking an intifada by his antics on Islamic holy sites, endless intrique, lies and propaganda efforts - and here we are, ready for more slaughter. Maybe if all that Afghani opium is air-dropped in small packets over the region, people will stop fighting for a while - that's my peace proposal.

For now, let's just try and define what is meant by 'terrorism' - a tricky proposition. Violent attacks on civilian populations to achieve a political end - that's a pretty good definition, right? That's what Tel Aviv cafe suicide bombers are hoping for, in their twisted states, isn't it? However, this definition means that many Western countries are deeply involved in terrorist activity. If the bombs are delivered by plane instead of by hand, does that suddenly mean it isn't terrorism? Collective punishment is therefore terrorism - attacking a civilian population for political purposes. Why isn't that a good definition of what terrorism is? Only because it means that the 'good guys', in Disneyland parlance, are terrorists just like the 'bad guys' are, and the corporate media lives on a steady diet of Disneyland morality plays - what does oil have to do with war?

Like an emotionally disturbed individual, Israel's response has been completely overblown and it's not encouraging to see a country that has a hefty stockpile of nuclear weapons acting in a unilateral and poorly considered manner - they must have learned that tactic from watching the US invasion of Iraq - and what can we say about it now? Israel will just claim that they are taking pre-emptive action to protect themselves, as Bush did. That Yale party boy never learned that actions have consequences - I think it's his parent's fault.

» I'm with you Posted by: russianblue1
Second guessing
Posted by: raccon on Jul 17, 2006 10:45 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Another great second guess of Israel's strategies and tactics. But that is all it is--total speculation. Time will show how effective this strategy is in forcing Lebanon to take control of its own territory. Israel is sending a clear message to Lebanon that they must continue the task of taking control of their own country away from Syria, Iran and their surrogates. The goal is simple. Israel will not allow attacks on their soil by anyone. I would really hesitate to second guess their strategy. They have had over 50 years of fighting for survival to perfect it. And by the way, Syrian tanks where in the city of Dan in Galilee in 73 shortly after the beginning of their surprise attack and I heard it from the locals that it was touch and go that the IDF was able to push them back up the Golan. I know some guys with burns on their backs from that war that might disagree with your assessment about how easy the Syrians and Egyptians were defeated. Nobody folded. It was bitter, terrible fighting that cost many lives on both sides. The seven day war was in 67.

» RE: Second guessing Posted by: Overlord
Second guessing again
Posted by: raccon on Jul 17, 2006 11:12 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And it wasn't a seven day war--it lasted six days (in 67).

Left needs to become consistent humanists and humanitarians
Posted by: Bobsays on Jul 18, 2006 2:58 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think what holds the left back is this: it can't help the tempation to fall in for some good old fashioned anti-imperialist rhetoric (like some sad sack who can't help doing some internet gambling). Just because islamic fascists use anti-imperialist rhetoric, it doesn't make them progressive or even anywhere close to the continium of progress for human civilisation.

The progressive position is to support the integrity of national borders, to oppose any entity that uses violence to violate this, to fight hard for international institutions with teeth and integrity (not the corruption festival that is the UN), to always oppose terrorists who kill innocent civilians (rather than publish reams of excuses for that behaviour).

There are many on the left who are consistent on this issue: the unsung heros and heroines out there who are doing good work around the world. But always we hear from the hot heads, the hypocrites, the veiled war mongers.

As for the state of Israel, the progressive position is to support its right to exist. It is also the progressive position to support any initiative that gives Palestinians the dignity and the right to a homeland. When attacked, Israel has a right to defend itself. Israel does not have the right to go beyond that, as it has done on many occassions (and maybe doing now).

lit'l bush
Posted by: rsaxto on Jul 18, 2006 4:18 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Olmert is like lit'l Bush: good at killing civilians and destroying infrastructure but poor at winning war and peace. With criminal saps like these running USA/Israel our decline and fall as powerful nations is assured. USA/Israel need to learn how to make peace in the world so we can all fight our common enemy: environmental decimation.

» RE: lit'l bush Posted by: AlienSlave
Israel/Harvard Magazine
Posted by: fg on Jul 18, 2006 4:52 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
http://www.harvardmagazine.com/on-line/070662.html

Israel is not dumb, the majority of the Arabs are
Posted by: farhada on Jul 18, 2006 5:13 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is hardly the truth.

Arabs, from Saudi Arabia to Morocco have the power, and money to put an end to this illegal behavior.

stop the flow of oil, for a week. stop dealing with any company that has a branch in Israel, take out their money from the banks and companies who deal with Israel and you will see things will change.

Instead, they send some stupid kids who believe in going to heaven to kill innocent people and give more power to the Israeli cause to destroy them again and again in the name of self defense.

Israel is doing what it is best, it is destroying the infrastructure of the country so it will take them years to get back on their feet. They are destroying bridges, factories, roads, airports, gas stations and even blocks of civilian houses, not because they have anything to do with Hamas or Hezbollah, but to make the people of Lebanon to suffer and realize who is the master and should be treated as one.

The disgusting act of crime committed by the 2 side is no questioned by the most, and people just blame the one or the other for what is happening here.

The main problem is that the majority of us are indifferent to the suffering of the people in Palestine, who are the victims of a brutal colonial power and corrupt leadership. With no where to go, they go to extremes and for that we punish them more.

As long as we do not change our behavior, those people will suffer more and we will see more blood on our TV screens, but, hei, who cares, we can always change the channel.

/Farhad Abdolian

Yep, no saints, and so?
Posted by: kenhymes on Jul 18, 2006 6:02 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Sojourner, not sure who you were replying to. But I will say that I agree there are no saints in this war. That has no bearing on the question of war crimes against civilians. The United States and Israel have encouraged the blurring of distinctions between violent crimes and acts of war. And this has been coupled with a blurring of distinctions between legitimate self-defense and collective punishment. Whether we're talking about American soldiers (who have obviously been put in a horrible situation) killing Iraqi families in response to IED attacks those families had no part in, or Israeli planes bombing civilian neighborhoods and destroying infrastructure essential to basic human needs - it's a war crime.

You say there is no case to be made that Israel uses only violence and never tries diplomacy. I didn't see anyone but the most partisan pro-Arabs or raving anti-Semites making that case. You raise this red herring because YOU KNOW there is no case to be made that excuses the war crimes of the United States and Israel against civilian populations.

If it were anyone but those you consider your friends committing these acts, you would call them what they are. Basically you are saying that might makes right, and that there is no hope for international law, or for the effective implementation of the Geneva Accords. That, in turn, means that we are all at risk, civilians and soldiers, of inhumane and illegal treatment or death. Be careful what you wish for. International relations and power balances change, and the shoe may well be on the other foot someday. It may be your children or grandchildren you are condemning to a world of lawless violence.

One more time: THE US AND ISRAEL DO NOT HAVE SPECIAL RIGHTS TO BE ABOVE THE LAW AND ABOVE MORALITY. It is not a defense of suicide bombers to expect better of our own governments. And the history of these sort of conflicts clearly showa that escalation and disproportionate response are not only immoral and illegal... more importantly perhaps from your point of view, they never work. Those who engage in these responses end up wasting lives, money, and credibility, only to eventually come to the bargaining table with those they swore they would never negotiate with. THAT is how this will end, it's just a matter of when.

» So, sue me. Posted by: Sojourner
Excellent article, however....... do you really think Israel is THAT stupid?
Posted by: Pepper on Jul 18, 2006 6:02 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Do you see the pattern here between what we have done in Iraq and what Israel is doing??? Do you see where this is leading??? Remember, Bush wanted to take on Syria earlier with the murder of the Lebanon leader, then he wanted to take on Iran with three different warnings and dates. He couldn't do it because we were enmeshed in Iraq and it wasn't going well at all.

Now we are seeing coordinated propoganda with both Syria and Iran as the targets and it was almost immediately upon the attacks in Lebanon. Notice also, Homelandsecurity web site now says there is a Hezbollah terrorist cell (Al Qaeda is replaced as the bad guy) in the United States and it happens to have appeared on the net just at the same time as they are being attacked by Israel.

No, this is no mistake or some powerful emotional out of control act on their part. This has a deeper plan and its going to be interesting to see how it unfolds.

» Oceana... Emanuel Goldstein? Posted by: SufiLizard
This will NEVER end until.
Posted by: xbj on Jul 18, 2006 6:34 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This will NEVER END until we take all the money we're throwing away on useless unwinnable war, BUY BACK the entire state, land, and infrastructure of Israel from the current inhabitants that would wish to sell out AT FULL MARKET VALUE, EVACUATE ISRAEL, and give the land back to the Palenstinians, and LEAVE THE MIDEAST, PERMANENTLY.

At the same time, copying Brazil and ENDING OUR DEPENDENCE ON MIDEAST OIL, PERMANENTLY.

And to those who say it's impossible; that we have nowhere enough money to begin to do this, I say this:

It will cost FAR LESS than "endless" unwinnable war OF 40-50 years WE WILL ABSOLUTELY NEVER WIN. INCLUDING the MASSIVE PR Campaign that would be necessary to convince Israelis that emigrating to America, Canada, and Europe is in their vital best interests.

The War Against Terror, which increases the enemy with each innocent "collateral" death EXPONENTIALLY, can not be won UNTIL ALL OF ISLAM IS DESTROYED, because they will fight Amerika and Israel, to the last man, woman, and child.

Therefore, The only way to WIN the War on Terror is GENOCIDE. This is UNACCEPTABLE; Genocide is NOT AN AMERICAN VALUE. The American People will wake up far before this is accomplished and PUT A STOP TO IT.

The only way to STOP IT, NOW, is to BUY BACK, AND THEN EVACUATE ISRAEL, AND THEN GIVE IT BACK TO THE PALESTINIANS, GRATIS.

Evacuate Israel to the countries anti-semitic assholes like FDR and Harry Truman refused to let them come to in the first place, foisting them off instead on Palestine.

Here's the real problem: Israel and Offense Contractors OWN OUR GOVERNMENT. THAT'S THE PROBLEM. When a Congressmen appropriates money to Israel and Offense Contractors, they KNOW THAT MONEY is coming back DIRECTLY to them in the form of political contributions and cushy jobs after their "service."

Outlaw ALL POLITICAL CONTRIBUTIONS FROM ORGANIZATIONS, CORPORATIONS, and FOREIGN GOVERNMENTS, and limit personal political contriubtions to $1000, and you've SOLVED THAT PROBLEM. Including solving the sticky problem of the mainstream media being the whores of Political Parties because of advertising revenue.

And to anyone that says this will never work; that the terrorists are animals, want us all dead "for our freedoms" and would attack Jews wherever they went, I say to you publicly:

Your are either a moron, or woefully misguided and duped, or a Goddamned liar making money off all of this.

People are the same everywhere. They want autonomy over the land their grandfathers lived on; they want control of their own natural resources; and they want a peaceful world for themselves and their children.

This CANNOT EVER HAPPEN AS LONG AS the nation of Israel stays in Palestine.

Give the Palestinians their homeland BACK; get the heck OUT OF THE MIDEAST FOREVER, and all REAL Islamic terrorism would die.

You would then only have to worry about military/corporate complex-sponsored terrorism to ignite wars of profit, and false flag self-attacks to enrage the populace. But without a convenient "endless" enemy, this would be much more difficult for them to pull off.

Deal with the main trigger for Armageddon in the world today (the existence of Israel in Palestine instead of Zion REALLY EXISTING throughout the world in the collective nation of people of Jewish faith IN ALL NATIONS) and you make it that much harder for the military-corporate complex to start wars.

First things first.

http://auctionforpeace.org

And don't give ME any CREDIT whatsoever for this idea OR plan; this is 100% Jesus Christ's, by His own words, teaching, and life and death example.

» I love your quote Posted by: codingguy
» RE: I love your quote Posted by: xbj
» RE: I love your quote Posted by: xbj
» PEOPLE ARE THE SAME EVERYWHERE Posted by: LeonDion
» RE: Class issue Posted by: LeonDion
Stupid? Smart!
Posted by: Taurus on Jul 18, 2006 6:43 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What pap. You think there are no sub rosa contacts between Israel and its moderate neighbors about all this? You think Saudi Arabia, the UAE, Bahrain, Egypt and Jordan are not rooting for Israel like mad to push the Islamo-fascists out of the south of Lebanon and weaken their capacity for any kind of action?

I love how we on the left can be counted on for a whole range of Israel-bashing positions. Israel and Syria pulled out of Lebanon. Hizbullah has not, depsite UN resolutions, but then those resolutions only get mentioned by the Left when they're aimed at Israel.

And as somebody already mentioned, it was The Six Day War, not seven days. I can't take an article seriously when the author muffs a basic fact like that.

» RE: Stupid? Smart! Posted by: codingguy
Middle East Bloody Theatre
Posted by: shyguy709 on Jul 18, 2006 6:44 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is a well written article...the world is watching the silly composure of supposed strategic output of the Isrealis and the Lebanesse. Both sides are not that stupid, they are brothers of the same arms and sisters at odds. lol

It was rather queer to me, sitting infront of my TV screen day and night, with the news making me to believe that the conflict in the middle East is because of captured soldiers. Oh, now we are trading soldiers for innocent civilians...it is Olmert's self defence strategy. Hezbollah and Hamas know that Israel is America's Bride. Since the Bush administration has proven unfit to handle issues in the Middle East, Israel can do it...
when are we going to know the truth and stop sabotaging the word "Terrorist"

Right to exist?
Posted by: hapibeli on Jul 18, 2006 6:54 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
My God says this is my land. He, she, it gave it to me whenever. What kind of crap is that!? So if someone comes to me and says that 2,000 years ago, give or take a few centuries, their book about their god said they could take my land. I'm supposed to just sit back and praise them for following their so called faith? Huh? What? Oh, that's right. There is also a whole lotta something in a few countries nearby that some much bigger and more pwerful folks think they need or want and they need a junkyard dog in my neighborhood to protect their access to that same whole lotta something. I'll just betcha that if we Americans begin to move away from petroleum to alternative fuel sources, Israel is going to lose their sponsor. We'll no longer need that junkyard dog and their "Right to Exist" will be seen as the sham that it is. Jews are as good and/or as bad a group of human beings as any other group, but what the Israelis do in the Middle East is ugly and disgusting. More to the point, they exacerbate tensions among another fanatically religious bunch who then cause trouble elsewhwere around the globe. Israel will not last unless they cease their abuses, and possibly not even then. I give them another 100 years at the outside, but probably much less.

» RE: right to exist? Posted by: symcokid
» RE: right to exist? Posted by: symcokid
» RE: right to exist? Posted by: codingguy
» RE: right to exist? Posted by: symcokid
» RE: right to exist? Posted by: codingguy
Let's start with logic 101
Posted by: SufiLizard on Jul 18, 2006 7:31 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
First let's start with a little basic logic: Condemning Israel's tactics is not the same as endorsing Hezbolah or Hamas or any of Israel's enemies. Condemning Israel's tactics, is NOT anti-semitism.

Since Israel is supposed to be our friend and close ally, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect more from them than we expect from the radical groups who seek their destruction.

And the bottom line is that Israel's attacks on civilian population and infrastructure is just as much an act of terrorism as a suicide bomber.

And it's not only wrong from a moral standpoint, it is creating a Hydra. For every terrorist you kill -- taking out innocent civilians in the process, you end up with several more people fueled with hatred and desperate for revenge. The cycle of violence is endless -- the only possible end would be complete genocide and I would hope NO ONE would condone that.

The other possible solution is to treat terrorist bombings as crimes and respond with very measured and dignified response. That's not to say not respond at all, but do it in such a way that you actually win over people's hearts and minds. You won't win over the hearts and minds of the entrenched terrorists, but you'll win over the hearts and minds of the next generation of terrorists before they can be poisoned with hatred.

Sure, it won't end the violence immediately, but then again neither does responding with more violence and at least this tactic has a light at the end of the tunnel that isn't accompanied by a mushroom cloud.

And for the record, if the U.S. had a more dignified and reasonable response to 9/11 we would have a much more peaceful world by now. Not perfect, mind you, but better than what we have now.

» RE: Let's start with logic 101 Posted by: codingguy
» RE: Let's start with logic 101 Posted by: kenhymes
» RE: Let's start with logic 101 Posted by: codingguy
» Methinks you doth protest too much Posted by: russianblue1
» You are right, SufiLizard,... Posted by: fool-on-the-hill
Monsters
Posted by: bigart on Jul 18, 2006 7:42 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Humanity is a bunch of bloody monsters. We're forever killing one another and glorifying that slaughter. Israel wants peace? Let them pull out of the occupied terittories , help the Palestinians build a viable nation and then work with Palestine and the other Muslim nations in makings good life for everyone in the area. Muslims want a good life? Let Israel know they will accept her and work with her to build Palestine and then the whole Mid-East. Let this paradygm stand for the enbtire world. Lets stop killing one another and worek together to build a good life for all.

» RE: Monsters Posted by: mrcentrist
» RE: Monsters Posted by: babs
» RE: Monsters Posted by: mrcentrist
Once again, why Iran needs nukes
Posted by: sofla100 on Jul 18, 2006 7:43 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Israel will only backdown when Iran gets it's nuclear deterrent.
Then they will understand. As it is now, they are militarily so powerful, thanks to the USA, they cannot be reasoned with. In a way, the USA is the same way. An overblown military, that needs its stupid wars to justify its existence. We need to stop the bloodshed, stop dominating and subjagating people. As for GWB, everyone knows his "exporting democracy," is really just exporting Halliburton and Cononco-Phillips.

» 1st Amendment, applied globally Posted by: cold2touch
Lefties: Stop try to argue with Zionists
Posted by: shinseiji on Jul 18, 2006 7:55 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I see all the "leftwing" or "liberal" zionists have crawled out of the woodwork.

Look folks, Zionism is a fanatical radical right wing ideology, an ideology suited for a racist apartheid state, worse than South Africa ever was.

But even worse for the possibility of any debate, here in the US it is an ideology espoused by some people who otherwise think of themselves as "liberals" or even "leftists". In this case, you are attempting to cary out a discussion with people lost in a deep state of confusion, people the DO NOT KNOW WHO THEY ARE OR WHAT THEY ARE BECOMING: Radical rightists, perhaps America's future fascists. Recall that Richard Perle and other "neocons" were once "Trotskysts", so too was Benito Mussolini once a Socialist. Many Nazis too also thought of themselves as some kind of "socialist", until the Night of the Long Knives at least.

Hence we suddenly see "leftists" writing about the "need" for Israel to use an "iron fist", rantings about "terrorism", etc. that would make Irving Kristol or the editors of the Wall Street Journal proud. That is where such "leftists" belong.

So don't bother with "left" Zionists - they'll just go bezerk and will start hissing and call you an "antisemite" and other absurdities. They're nuts.

Instead, discuss this issue with Americans sincerely appalled, not only by Israels actions, but even more so by the US's unique role as Israel's exclusive enabler, and point to the terrible example of the US invasion and occupation of Iraq as illustrating the profound dangers of the "Zionization" of the United States as the royal road to an American fascism.

» Well said, but Posted by: russianblue1
» RE: Well said, but Posted by: codingguy
» Nobody Posted by: russianblue1
Israel is protecting their "right" to kidnap
Posted by: bqtrain on Jul 18, 2006 8:01 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Few readers of a British newspaper would have noticed the story. In the Observer of 25 June, it merited a mere paragraph hidden in the “World in brief” section, revealing that the previous day a team of Israeli commandos had entered the Gaza Strip to “detain” two Palestinians Israel claims are members of Hamas.

The significance of the mission was alluded to in a final phrase describing this as “the first arrest raid in the territory since Israel pulled out of the area a year ago”. More precisely, it was the first time the Israeli army had re-entered the Gaza Strip, directly violating Palestinian control of the territory, since it supposedly left in August last year.


Kidnapped by Israel

Millions of peoples lives are being affected so Israel can protect their "right" to cross other nation's borders and kidnap people at their own will. It's pretty amazing how indoctrinated we are when we have the greatest protections of speech in the history of the world and our press portrays this conflict as a benevolent nation making difficult decisions about whether to use force or diplomacy in the face of irrational sociopaths who only want to bring about death. A 10 year old could do a more rational analysis of this situation than what is done in our press.

Darfur
Posted by: ungerbn on Jul 18, 2006 9:48 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I appreciated the article. I am glad that there is widespread disdain for the new Israeli incursions into Lebanon.

I don't mean to be off topic, but why hasnt' the existing and continuous genocide in Darfur been addressed with the same vim and vigor as this current debacle in Lebanon?

Although I know that the mainstream media is basically owned by right-wing, pro-Israeli media magnates, I just can't understand why pressing issues are not profiled with at least of semblance of balance for humanitarian priorities.

By the way, I am not indicting Israel's right to protect itself when it is legitimately attacked.

» RE: Darfur Posted by: rg
» RE: Darfur Posted by: babs
» RE: Darfur Posted by: cold2touch
» RE: Darfur Posted by: FedUp
and what would you have the Israeli government do?
Posted by: velvel of atlanta on Jul 18, 2006 10:28 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
what is there that you think the israeli government has not done short of withdrawing to pre-'67 lines which even with almost forty year old weaponry exposed everyone to missiles and artillery? perhaps if you went there and put your feet on the ground your would have an understanding of the conditions there. i have and i sort of understand it.
but nothing is impossible for the man who does not have to do anything, eh?

To Hell with Anti-Semitism!
Posted by: rkewen on Jul 18, 2006 10:37 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In the comments above, as always, as soon as anyone criticizes Israeli policy the charges of anti-semitism start to fly. As a Canadian I wonder how many Canadian children can be killed by American supplied Israeli bombers before I can express my dismay without being anti-Semitic and anti-American.

As the original article points out, THIS situation began with a Hezbollah attack on a MILITARY target, an act of war, perhaps, but not an act of terrorism. The line score alone illustrates who is the terrorist here.
Israel - killed 200-300 mostly civilians
Hezbollah - killed about 25, about half soldiers

Israel needs to learn to get along with its neighbors, and the people whose land it steals or eventually there will be a hole in the ground where Israel used to be. What if Iran has a nuke, as the neo-cons would like us to believe, or gets one from their friends in (pick one, China, North Korea, Pakistan, Russia or an X Russian republic) and happens to drop it on Israel's nuclear arsenal thus getting a multiplier effect? It might make the Ruby open pit Copper mine look like a gopher hole.

» AMEN!! Posted by: russianblue1
» RE: To Hell with Anti-Semitism! Posted by: velvel of atlanta
» RE: To Hell with Anti-Semitism! Posted by: codingguy
TROLL ALERT
Posted by: russianblue1 on Jul 18, 2006 11:16 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
'

A "Cycle" of Nonsense Part I
Posted by: Liger on Jul 18, 2006 11:19 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
by Thomas Sowell (July 18, 2006)

Now that Israel has responded to rocket attacks and the abduction of its soldiers by terrorists by making military strikes into areas controlled by those terrorists, much of our media are deploring another "cycle of violence" in the Middle East.

For reasons unknown, some people seem to regard verbal equivalence as moral equivalence -- and the latter as some kind of badge of broadmindedness, if not intellectual superiority.

Therefore, when Palestinian terrorists ("militants" in politically correct Newspeak) attack Israel and then Israel responds with military force, that is just another "cycle of violence" in the Middle East to some people.

The "cycle" notion suggests that each side is just responding to what the other side does. But just what had Israel done to set off these latest terrorist acts? It voluntarily pulled out of Gaza, after evacuating its own settlers, and left the land to the Palestinian authorities.

Terrorists then used the newly acquired land to launch rockets into Israel and then seized an Israeli soldier. Other terrorists in Lebanon followed suit. The great mantra of the past, "trading land for peace," is now thoroughly discredited, or should be.

But facts mean nothing to people who are determined to find equivalence, whether today in the Middle East or yesterday in the Cold War.

Since all things are the same, except for the differences, and different except for the similarities, nothing is easier than to create verbal parallels and moral equivalence, though some people seem to pride themselves on their ability to do such verbal tricks.

Centuries ago, Thomas Hobbes said that words are wise men's counters but that they are the money of fools.

Regardless of fashionable rhetoric, there is no Middle East "peace process" any more than trading "land for peace" has been a viable option. Nor is a Palestinian "homeland" a key to peace.

During all the years when Arab countries controlled the land now proposed for a Palestinian homeland, there was no talk about any such homeland. Only after Israel took control of that territory as a result of the 1967 war was it suddenly sacred as a Palestinian homeland.

There is no concession that will bring lasting peace to the Middle East because the terrorists and their supporters are not going to be satisfied by concessions. The only thing that will satisfy them is the destruction of Israel.

Pending that, they will inflict as much destruction and bloodshed on the Israelis as they can get away with at any given time. This brutal reality is not going to vanish through verbal sleight of hand.

The terrorists have spoken in words and in deeds, including suicide bombers. They have what Churchill once described in the Nazis as "currents of hatred so intense as to sear the souls of those who swim upon them."

We saw that on 9/11 -- or should have seen it. But many, especially among the intelligentsia, are determined not to see it.

Of all the Western democracies, only two have no choice but to depend on their own military forces for their survival -- the United States and Israel. The rest have for more than half a century had the luxury of depending on American military forces in general and the American nuclear deterrent in particular.

People who have long been sheltered from mortal dangers can indulge themselves in the belief that there are no mortal dangers. Nuclear weapons in the hands of Iran or North Korea -- and, through them, in the hands of hate-filled terrorists -- may be all that will finally wake up such people. But that may be tragically too late.

» Conveniently forgotten Posted by: russianblue1
» RE: Conveniently forgotten Posted by: codingguy
» RE: NOBODY Posted by: Liger
» Sorry Posted by: russianblue1
A "Cycle" of Nonsense Part II
Posted by: Liger on Jul 18, 2006 11:20 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
by Thomas Sowell (July 18, 2006)

Those who keep calling for an end to the "cycle of violence" are what make such violence more likely. "World opinion" in general and the United Nations in particular can always be counted on to counsel "restraint" in response to attacks and "negotiations" in response to lethal threats.

What that means is that those who start trouble will have a lower price to pay than if those they attacked were free to go all out in their counter-attack. Lowering the price to be paid by aggressors virtually guarantees more aggression.

Is this the best Alternet can do?
Posted by: ethanay on Jul 18, 2006 11:31 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You would think Alternet would be able to recruit someone with a better understanding of the conflict to analyze it...as it stands, this article looks more like it belongs on an amateur blog, in both tone and content.

Articles set the tone for the ensuing discussion on the message board. When the article quality is lacking, the discussion easily degenerates into nonproductive squabbling and bickering, because there wasn't a decent starting point in the first place.

» RE: whaaaa??? Posted by: Ghoulman
This is not Israel this is all Bush's tricks
Posted by: ng1944 on Jul 18, 2006 11:39 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Israel wouldnot dare to fart without US o.k.
They are doing Bush bidding.
This is all the same tricks, war, war, war.
So You can pump up war histeria, patriotism, terrorism and
grab more power. Just look at his smile.
And pay attention, they hardly talking about Lebanon
any more, but Iran and Siria, Iran and Siria, that what is it all about. Bomb them, bomb them, on and on.
In world war II, nazis were exterminating whole
willages and towns if one soldier was killed in this area.
So, Israel is in good company

At least no one here is claiming relief via the Democratic leadership
Posted by: cthelyt on Jul 18, 2006 1:04 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Look at it and weep. Both houses of Congress might as well be the Knesset. One would think Israel was planning rocket attacks on wayward senators and representatives if they got out of line and criticized just a little. And these are the people upon whom we are supposed to rely to lead us to a better place?

Someone above commented that it will be "interesting" to see what happens in what may be the beginning of WWIII, and I agree. It will be interesting as a NYer with a ringside seat to see what gets demolished next here with people inside it. Will they be atomised first, or will they burn alive? Yes, it will be interesting to see. I may be among them. Interesting indeed. As for making the world a better place, this thread speaks far more eloquently than I can to the practical impossibility of that goal.

Years ago Bill Clinton prematurely proclaimed the end of the era of big government (he was correct if he meant only that the era of _benevolent_ big government was over). Big government in all its oppression and repression is not only with us but also bigger and more menacing than ever. Independent thought is dying; idealism may already be dead, unless it is the kind of idealism that breeds death and misery. And it is a cold comfort amid a hellish heat wave to know that when the last human dies amid fires of his own creation, he will be fighting with his own kind rather than fighting with him to put the fires out. Higher intelligence and higher life forms indeed. No wonder the universe is so free of them.

RE: Israel's "Smoke and Mirrors"
Posted by: Chase_80 on Jul 18, 2006 2:17 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Israel and America share one interest, which is what sets Israel apart from every other country in the Middle East: democracy.

And yes, Israel does have interests...not having their civilians live year-round fearing rockets and suicide bombers are probably up near the top of the list.

if you want to know the score, some numbers, facts, links
Posted by: cold2touch on Jul 18, 2006 1:21 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This was compiled in Feb/06 and covers events since Sep/00:
Israel--------Palestine
123----------702 # of children killed
1,065--------3,729 # killed
7,464-------29,229 # injured
65---------------0 # UN resolutions against
0--------------4,170 # homes demolished
0--------------8,279 # of prisoners held by the other
15,139,178--232,290 $/day received from US

Clearly, it is out of date since Hamas and Hezbollah apparently have 3 Israeli prisoners between them (of course, the other #s did not diminish either).
Do your own math people, what are the ratios?

Do we need to talk of other aspects, such as the recently re-enacted Absentee Property Laws (originally signed into effect by David Ben Gurion in 1948), where land, property and bank accounts were taken by Israel if the Arab owner was absent for one day or longer - but often the Palestinian need not be absent.

Or how about Planning Laws and their Judicial practices: National Planning and Building Law (1965) Creates a system of discriminatory zoning that freezes existing Arab villages while providing for the expansion of Jewish settlements. The law also re-classifies a large number of Arab villages as "non-residential" creating the "unrecognized villages." These villages do not receive basic municipal services such as water and electricity; all buildings are threatened with demolition orders.

Judicial Practice: Equal Protection Cases The Israeli courts - guided by the Supreme Court - have consistently decided that discrimination between Arabs and Jews is legitimate based on the founding principles of Israel as a state for the Jewish people; "nationality" is considered a legitimate basis for discrimination.

For wider discussion of these and other issues, go here and here

What would happen to Israel if we didn't give them any more money?
Posted by: mom'z the word on Jul 18, 2006 1:35 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Money Money Money. The world evolves around money. Who ever has the most money wins. We give Israel lotza and lotza money. I know there is someone out there who is expert at finding out just how much money we give Israel. Maybe they could get back to us on that subject.

At any rate what is Israel doing with the money we are giving them? Right now they are using it to make war on their neighbors. I think if we take away the money they will not be able to fund a war. It is not fair to anyone else that Israel has a sugar daddy and therefore does not have to talk about making peace and not war.

I can not begin to understand the complexities that are going on here. All I know is we have set a very bad example and Israel is following in our footsteps. We invaded Iraq for no apparent reason and now Israel I guess feels they can do the same. The only problem is it was wrong when we did it and it is still wrong. Somehow I do not think this is about right and wrong. I think it is more about might and no one seems to give a damn about right. I say stop funding terrorism, aggressive behavior, any killing and death and all the very very bad things that happen when you have enough money, support to buy weapons and killing machines. If money makes war possible then stopping the money will make war impossible. Peace doesn't cost anything and it sure is a lot more liviable. Lets fund only peace efforts and boycott wars of any kind.

You'll never see this appear on Fox News
Posted by: hotlipsin61 on Jul 18, 2006 3:58 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
No one knows what Israel is trying to accomplish here. Why level a whole country to rescue one or perhps two kidnapped soldiers?
I understand eight soldiers were killed by people from another country and someone is guilty. Israel should digest that defeating Hezbollah can't be done in a week, or two, or three. Israel has shot itself in the butt on this latest "terrorist" battle.
This was truthful reporting. You'll never see a story like this on Fox News.

bil
Posted by: Bil on Jan 3, 2007 8:42 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
  • AlterNetYour turn

Support AlterNet
Do you value the information you're getting from AlterNet? Please show your support with a tax-deductible donation.


Feedback
Tell us how we're doing.

Advertisement
Advertisement