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Israel Takes a Stupid Pill

By Larry C. Johnson, Booman Tribune. Posted July 17, 2006.


Unlike the Egyptian and Syrian armies in 1973, Hamas and Hezbollah will not easily fold and cannot be defeated in a seven-day war.
071706_story3
A Lebanese man looks at buildings that were attacked by Israeli air strikes in the Hizbollah stronghold of southern Beirut July 16, 2006. (Reuters/Adnan Hajj)
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Apparently not content to let the US do a self-immolation act in the Middle East by itself, Israel decided to set itself on fire by invading Lebanon. Burn baby burn? Like George Bush, Israel's Prime Minister, Ehud Olmert, never served in a combat unit and launched military operations without thinking the matter through. In fact, Olmert reportedly never even served in the military. I raise this because there is one simple question Israel cannot answer about the current operations-what is their strategic military objective. Olmert has somehow persuaded the Israeli military to ignore strategy, think tactically, and in the process become really stupid. The events in the next several weeks will expose as myth the canard that you can secure a nation by killing terrorists. No you can't.

Killing "terrorists" has a place in policy but it is not a strategic military obective. It is a tactical objective and may serve political purposes, but achieves little in terms of securing Israel. Israel is attacking targets in Lebanon like a drunken sailor in a bar fight. Flailing about, causing significant damage, hitting innocent bystanders, and generally making a mess of things. This is not the Israeli military that pulled off the brilliant and daring raid at Entebbe.

What about Hamas and Hezbollah?

They are not terrorists. They carry out terrorist attacks, but they are not terrorists. They are something far more dangerous. They are a fully functioning political, social, religious, and military organizations that use terrorism tactics, but they are far more formidible than terrorist groups like Al Qaeda or the Basque Terrorist Organization. They do have the resources and the personnel to project force, sustain operations, and cannot be easily defeated. Unlike the Egyptian and Syrian armies in 1973, Hamas and Hezbollah will not easily fold and cannot be defeated in a seven day war. If that is the assumption among some Israeli military planners it is a crazy fantasy.

While most folks in the United States buy into the Hollywood storyline of poor little Israel fighting for its survival against big, bad Muslims, the reality unfolding on our TV screens shows something else. Exodus, starring Paul Newman, is ancient history. Hamas and Hezbollah attacked military targets; kidnapping soldiers on military patrols may be an act of war and a provocation, but it is not terrorism. (And yes, Hezbollah and Hamas have carried out terrorist attacks in the past against Israeli civilians. I'm not ignoring those acts, I condemn them, but we need to understand what the dynamics are right now.) Israel is not attacking the individuals who hit their soldiers. Israel is engaged in mass punishment.

How did Israel respond? They bombed civilian targets and civilian infrastructure and have killed many civilians. Let's see if I have this right.

The Arab "terrorists" attack military units, destroy at least one tank, and are therefore terrorists. Israel retaliates by launching aerial, naval, and artillery bombardments of civilian areas and they are engaging in self-defense. If we are unable to recognize the hypocrisy of this construct then we ourselves are so enveloped by propaganda and emotion that, like the Israelis, Hezbollah, and Hamas, we can't think rationally. We can only think in terms of tribalism and revenge.

Iran, meanwhile, is sitting in the catbird's seat. They have a well-trained and highly competent surrogate force in Hezbollah. Hezbollah's successful attack on Friday on an Israeli naval vessel is a reminder that Hezbollah is not a bunch of crazy kids carrying RPGs and wearing flip flops. I would be willing to wager that at least one Iranian military advisor was helping Hezbollah launch the missile that hit the Israeli ship. But Iran is doing more than simply engage in tit-for-tat. They are thinking strategically.

The events unfolding in Iraq and Lebanon are going Tehran's way. The United States is being portrayed in the world media as a government that tolerates and excuses attacks on civilian populations. The perception becomes the reality and the ability of the United States to rally support among the Russians, the Chinese, and even the French becomes more impaired. We need the international community to deal effectively with nuclear proliferation in North Korea and Iran. Now, we will be bogged down trying to defend Israel from an angry international community.     

In the past, the United States had enough credibility on both sides and kept enough of a distance during these blood fueds so that we could intervene and prevent the fighting from escalating into a gigantic war. It appears that there is no one in the Bush Administration who can step up and intervene to calm the situation. Hell, with John Bolton and Elliot Abrams leading the charge, we are Israel's enablers.

Former Senator Fred Thompson played a U.S. Navy Admiral in The Hunt for Red October. While speaking about escalating tensions as the United States and the Soviet Union chased a renegade submarine, he said: "This business will get out of control. It will get out of control and we'll be lucky to live through it."

Those words are relevant today. Let's hope and pray they don't come to pass.

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Great Article
Posted by: monkeyinchief on Jul 17, 2006 12:33 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's refreshing to see someone put the situation in a strategic perspective. What's bothered me from the begining is that Hezbollah knew exactly now Israel would react because of the similar situation in Gaza only a few days before. Hezbollah would have only made their provocation if they believed the Israeli response would work to their advantage.

» RE: Great Article Posted by: rwinbush
» Long Live Palestine Posted by: dancingcloud
» RE: Great Article Posted by: Wacre
» RE: Great Article Posted by: cadabra
It is a sad day when
Posted by: Joe Ox on Jul 17, 2006 12:50 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When a country is attacked and they must measure their response with an eye toward who they will alienate, how everyone around the world will feel, and how it may damage the battle of public relations.
As an individual, if my family member is murdered, I have no legal right to go and kill the killer. But, once discovered, the killer will be brought to justice by the police, either executed or imprisoned. In the case of battling Arab terrorists, who are the police? Who can Israel call to enforce the law here? Who would step in and see top it that crimes are punished? Imagine members of your family kept being killed, week after week, and you were just told to sit tight and not do anything. You call the police and they say you had better not react, you will irritate the killers and create generations more killers. At some point I think you might just start to shoot back, maybe even wrecklessly.

» RE: It is a sad day when Posted by: prod
» RE: It is a sad day when Posted by: brunowe
» RE: It is a sad day when Posted by: esactun
» RE: It is a sad day when sickosleaze Posted by: ladybug1@carrollsweb.com
» RE: You said Posted by: deo508
» RE: You said Posted by: codingguy
» RE: You said Posted by: deo508
» Stuck Posted by: russianblue1
» I believe, by your posts, you are Posted by: russianblue1
» RE: You said Posted by: amatullah
» RE: It is a sad day when Posted by: caitlin
» Hey Joe ... Posted by: cold2touch
» RE: It is a sad day when Posted by: Glennk1949
Re: Joe Ox
Posted by: kenhymes on Jul 17, 2006 1:21 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Joe, your analogy is full of holes. Israel is not a person, it's a country. Countries that are attacked in criminal ways (and let's remember that unlike the Palestinian suicide bombers, Hezbollah has recently largely attacked military targets), never get the right to bomb civilian areas indiscriminately. It's a war crime when the US does it, it's a war crime when Israel does it.

Anyway, why does the country with the largest military and best airforce in the region get to play the defenseless victim? Every country of any size can point to someone in the world who hates them and says threatening things about them, and Israel is far from alone in being attacked with illegal terror tactics (ask Pakistan and India and Colombia and many others how things are going). The Holocaust was one of the vast tragedies of the 20th Century (on a short list that should include the genocide of 3 million Vietnamese, the mass purges of Stalin and Mao, and the Armenian massacres - if I've missed something, make your own list), but it cannot be used forever as a justification for every stupid and evil thing successive Israeli administrations decide to do.

You know that the vast majority of victims have been Palestinians, not Israelis. Some suicidal jihadist blows themselves and a few other people in a market or cafe (a horrible evil thing, and there's no explaining it, not enough compassion in the world, for those whose family members are killed or maimed), and Israel's response, over and over again (like the US military in Iraq) is to bomb civilian areas and threaten and humiliate people who have nothing to do with the conflict. Thus increasing the base of indirect support for the extremists, rather than isolating them by treating a crime as a crime. You cannot ignore that there is racism and indifference to human suffering at work here. Collective punishment is both a moral and legal crime, and it is a tactical error of the worst kind.

It has never worked and it never will work. It's degrading the democracy, the civil discourse, and the humanity of both of our nations. Justifying this kind of disproportionate violence with "common sense" analogies about individual situations is of no help whatsoever, and masks the ethical and tactical issues in a fog of B.S.

» RE: Joe Ox Posted by: deo508
» RE: Joe Ox Posted by: andrewgirma
» RE: Joe Ox Posted by: deo508
» RE: e: Joe Ox Posted by: jbloggz
Monday morning armchair quarterbacks are a dime a dozen.
Posted by: Sojourner on Jul 17, 2006 2:59 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Lose the sympathetic history of Israel's enemies. We all know there are no saints in the near East.

If you can make the case that Israel only opts for violence and does not try diplomacy, I will listen. But you can never make such a case. The fact that diplomacy never works without an iron fist in the velvet glove is something we all know.

The glove is lovely. The fist is ugly. So what else is new?

» Spare me Posted by: russianblue1
» RE: Spare me Posted by: codingguy
Regarding those military targets
Posted by: Jasem on Jul 17, 2006 3:01 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
From what I have seen in the news, Hizbollah killed 8 Israeli civilians in a rocket attack. That is not a military target. Why does Hizbollah target civilians and don't you think it would be cleverer (if they had to hit anything) to just hit military targets? Then they wouldn't look like such a big bunch of assholes on the world scene. Or do they not even care what people think. And what do you think all this overreacting by the Israelis is about? What's their plan, really? Not the Ilad Shalit story please, some insight if anyone might humour me.
P.S. America sucks balls.

The events unfolding...in Lebanon are going Tehran's way
Posted by: Jasem on Jul 17, 2006 3:12 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How do you figure that?

Frackin' brilliant article!
Posted by: Ghoulman on Jul 17, 2006 3:32 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
especially this bit... The Arab "terrorists" attack military units, destroy at least one tank, and are therefore terrorists. Israel retaliates by launching aerial, naval, and artillery bombardments of civilian areas and they are engaging in self-defense. If we are unable to recognize the hypocrisy of this construct then we ourselves are so enveloped by propaganda and emotion that, like the Israelis, Hezbollah, and Hamas, we can't think rationally. We can only think in terms of tribalism and revenge.

Though I could do without the Tom Clancy reference. Blech! :p

» selective thinking Posted by: AdamBaum
» RE: selective thinking Posted by: Ghoulman
» RE: selective thinking Posted by: codingguy
» RE: selective thinking Posted by: deo508
» RE: selective thinking Posted by: Ghoulman
» RE: selective thinking Posted by: IanA
» RE: selective thinking Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: selective thinking Posted by: Shehova
» RE: selective thinking Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: selective thinking Posted by: Ghoulman
» RE: selective thinking Posted by: IanA
» RE: selective thinking Posted by: Ghoulman
» RE: selective thinking Posted by: codingguy
» RE: selective thinking Posted by: deo508
Millions of unemployed men and women ready to die in jihad? Right?
Posted by: Sojourner on Jul 17, 2006 3:47 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Does anyone deny that Isreal's enemies are eager to die in battle? Does anyone deny that dying in battle brings no special 'spiritual' reward to Jews?

Stop treating the near East as if it were a kids' fight, where Tommy says that Johnny hit him first, but Johnny says that Tommy hit him first. We all know that when either one gets hit, they will hit back.

Where does the 'god's eye' perspective about who is right and who is wrong come from? When did any of the participants in the war ask for outsiders' opinions, because they would listen to that?

I learned long ago to stay out of other people's wars. Anyone who doesn't sucks the Stupid Pill big time.

» I deny Posted by: LeonDion
I think America is taking the stupid pill given by Dr. Izrael
Posted by: deo508 on Jul 17, 2006 5:31 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is a pretty interesting article. But if the Izrael Lobby didn't have such a firm grip on the throats of U.S. politicians then we would not be having thbis discussion, and probalby ot the wars we are in.
America is taking the stupid pill. We, our politicians, have put the interests of a foreign nation ahead of our own.

» Spare us your Posted by: russianblue1
Look on the Bright Side.
Posted by: douglashoyt on Jul 17, 2006 6:41 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In a trillion years, no one in this universe will get a damn.

» RE: Look on the Bright Side. Posted by: Pickles78
» RE: Look on the Bright Side. Posted by: symcokid
» RE: Look on the Bright Side. Posted by: jbloggz
» RE: Look on the Bright Side. Posted by: cold2touch
Let's have a fair fight.
Posted by: humanity101 on Jul 17, 2006 7:06 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Let Russia, China, and Iran supply Hamas and Hezbolla with sophisticated weapons the way the U.S. supplied the Taliban with stinger missiles to shoot down Soviet planes. The world needs another super power to balance things out. Imagine if Hamas and Hezbolla have fighter jets, tanks, warships, cruise missils etc... I would assume they would be more accurate in taking down the Israeli's goverment buildings, the homes of their ministers etc... and at least appear to avoid civilian targets. At this point, I would assume the militants would acquire personal vehicles, body armors etc... to protect themselves and not blowing themselves up in order to kill their enemies. When you are being occupied, oppressed and humiliated daily, anything goes. When the situation gets desperate, humanity, ethics, morality etc... goes out the window. Of course any act of destruction of human lives must be condemned, but throwing more fuel into the fire would not make it stop. You can make a bigger fire, but in the end, you get burned too. Those Isrealis who support their military's destruction of the Lebannese deserve no sympathy. They deserve it. Let them kill each other. Until someone learns the lesson, history will keep repeating itself.

» RE: Let's have a fair fight. Posted by: symcokid
Typical Alternet droppings
Posted by: zelosfsu81 on Jul 17, 2006 8:44 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Has anybody ever questioned why ALTERNET begins blogs with articles from only one point of view? This method is anti-democratic, anti american, and anti-progressive(even though i'm sure theythink they are). Sad excuse for left wing politics. Shame on ALTERNET. The articles are ALL diatribes and do not represent any thing close to true journalism.
ALL these alternet bloggers feed of alternets hatred and then attack dissent by name calling. FOX watcher or likudniks or bushies, or IDF blah blah blah. The scariest thing to me is that the Left has now become a training ground for the regrowth and perpetuation of antisemitism. How bizarre is this being that the Jews have always headed progressive liberal leaning movements. This development is similar to the history of the NAACP. Jews begin organize and champion the NAACP and then are turned on when israel comes into the picture. Antisemitism is alive and strong and seems to find its way into the most peculiar of places. VIVA alternet, viva ANTISEMITISM - Death to the dissenting voice!! Death to Israel death to America!!! Death to the world!!!

» RE: Typical Alternet droppings Posted by: codingguy
» attention CODINGGUY Posted by: zelosfsu81
» RE: attention CODINGGUY Posted by: codingguy
» Assuming, of course, Posted by: russianblue1
» RE: Typical Alternet droppings Posted by: zelosfsu81
» RE: Typical Alternet droppings Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Typical Alternet droppings Posted by: Glennk1949
» Learn to follow a thread Posted by: Disputo
» RE: Learn to follow a thread Posted by: codingguy
» RE: Typical Alternet droppings Posted by: Robert Stevens
» RE: Typical Alternet droppings Posted by: FedererFan
What does 'terrorism' mean, anyhow?
Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Jul 17, 2006 10:19 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I suppose now would be a good time to rehash the last few thousand years of MidEast history and solve all the problems of the past - for example, the founding of Israel is a mixed story, involving a few fascist elements as well as a Marcus Garvey-style "Return to Africa" type movement - but that's the confused history of the 20th century. You can't change the past, but you can work towards a livable future.

Oddly enough, right before this latest warfare broke out, Hamas had drafted a proposal to recognize the state of Israel - apparently something various people on all sides didn't want to see happen. Bush and his 'hands-off' approach, Sharon's deliberately provoking an intifada by his antics on Islamic holy sites, endless intrique, lies and propaganda efforts - and here we are, ready for more slaughter. Maybe if all that Afghani opium is air-dropped in small packets over the region, people will stop fighting for a while - that's my peace proposal.

For now, let's just try and define what is meant by 'terrorism' - a tricky proposition. Violent attacks on civilian populations to achieve a political end - that's a pretty good definition, right? That's what Tel Aviv cafe suicide bombers are hoping for, in their twisted states, isn't it? However, this definition means that many Western countries are deeply involved in terrorist activity. If the bombs are delivered by plane instead of by hand, does that suddenly mean it isn't terrorism? Collective punishment is therefore terrorism - attacking a civilian population for political purposes. Why isn't that a good definition of what terrorism is? Only because it means that the 'good guys', in Disneyland parlance, are terrorists just like the 'bad guys' are, and the corporate media lives on a steady diet of Disneyland morality plays - what does oil have to do with war?

Like an emotionally disturbed individual, Israel's response has been completely overblown and it's not encouraging to see a country that has a hefty stockpile of nuclear weapons acting in a unilateral and poorly considered manner - they must have learned that tactic from watching the US invasion of Iraq - and what can we say about it now? Israel will just claim that they are taking pre-emptive action to protect themselves, as Bush did. That Yale party boy never learned that actions have consequences - I think it's his parent's fault.

» I'm with you Posted by: russianblue1
Second guessing
Posted by: raccon on Jul 17, 2006 10:45 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Another great second guess of Israel's strategies and tactics. But that is all it is--total speculation. Time will show how effective this strategy is in forcing Lebanon to take control of its own territory. Israel is sending a clear message to Lebanon that they must continue the task of taking control of their own country away from Syria, Iran and their surrogates. The goal is simple. Israel will not allow attacks on their soil by anyone. I would really hesitate to second guess their strategy. They have had over 50 years of fighting for survival to perfect it. And by the way, Syrian tanks where in the city of Dan in Galilee in 73 shortly after the beginning of their surprise attack and I heard it from the locals that it was touch and go that the IDF was able to push them back up the Golan. I know some guys with burns on their backs from that war that might disagree with your assessment about how easy the Syrians and Egyptians were defeated. Nobody folded. It was bitter, terrible fighting that cost many lives on both sides. The seven day war was in 67.

» RE: Second guessing Posted by: Overlord
Second guessing again
Posted by: raccon on Jul 17, 2006 11:12 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And it wasn't a seven day war--it lasted six days (in 67).

Left needs to become consistent humanists and humanitarians
Posted by: Bobsays on Jul 18, 2006 2:58 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think what holds the left back is this: it can't help the tempation to fall in for some good old fashioned anti-imperialist rhetoric (like some sad sack who can't help doing some internet gambling). Just because islamic fascists use anti-imperialist rhetoric, it doesn't make them progressive or even anywhere close to the continium of progress for human civilisation.

The progressive position is to support the integrity of national borders, to oppose any entity that uses violence to violate this, to fight hard for international institutions with teeth and integrity (not the corruption festival that is the UN), to always oppose terrorists who kill innocent civilians (rather than publish reams of excuses for that behaviour).

There are many on the left who are consistent on this issue: the unsung heros and heroines out there who are doing good work around the world. But always we hear from the hot heads, the hypocrites, the veiled war mongers.

As for the state of Israel, the progressive position is to support its right to exist. It is also the progressive position to support any initiative that gives Palestinians the dignity and the right to a homeland. When attacked, Israel has a right to defend itself. Israel does not have the right to go beyond that, as it has done on many occassions (and maybe doing now).

lit'l bush
Posted by: rsaxto on Jul 18, 2006 4:18 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Olmert is like lit'l Bush: good at killing civilians and destroying infrastructure but poor at winning war and peace. With criminal saps like these running USA/Israel our decline and fall as powerful nations is assured. USA/Israel need to learn how to make peace in the world so we can all fight our common enemy: environmental decimation.

» RE: lit'l bush Posted by: AlienSlave
Israel/Harvard Magazine
Posted by: fg on Jul 18, 2006 4:52 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
http://www.harvardmagazine.com/on-line/070662.html

Israel is not dumb, the majority of the Arabs are
Posted by: farhada on Jul 18, 2006 5:13 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is hardly the truth.

Arabs, from Saudi Arabia to Morocco have the power, and money to put an end to this illegal behavior.

stop the flow of oil, for a week. stop dealing with any company that has a branch in Israel, take out their money from the banks and companies who deal with Israel and you will see things will change.

Instead, they send some stupid kids who believe in going to heaven to kill innocent people and give more power to the Israeli cause to destroy them again and again in the name of self defense.

Israel is doing what it is best, it is destroying the infrastructure of the country so it will take them years to get back on their feet. They are destroying bridges, factories, roads, airports, gas stations and even blocks of civilian houses, not because they have anything to do with Hamas or Hezbollah, but to make the people of Lebanon to suffer and realize who is the master and should be treated as one.

The disgusting act of crime committed by the 2 side is no questioned by the most, and people just blame the one or the other for what is happening here.

The main problem is that the majority of us are indifferent to the suffering of the people in Palestine, who are the victims of a brutal colonial power and corrupt leadership. With no where to go, they go to extremes and for that we punish them more.

As long as we do not change our behavior, those people will suffer more and we will see more blood on our TV screens, but, hei, who cares, we can always change the channel.

/Farhad Abdolian

Yep, no saints, and so?
Posted by: kenhymes on Jul 18, 2006 6:02 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Sojourner, not sure who you were replying to. But I will say that I agree there are no saints in this war. That has no bearing on the question of war crimes against civilians. The United States and Israel have encouraged the blurring of distinctions between violent crimes and acts of war. And this has been coupled with a blurring of distinctions between legitimate self-defense and collective punishment. Whether we're talking about American soldiers (who have obviously been put in a horrible situation) killing Iraqi families in response to IED attacks those families had no part in, or Israeli planes bombing civilian neighborhoods and destroying infrastructure essential to basic human needs - it's a war crime.

You say there is no case to be made that Israel uses only violence and never tries diplomacy. I didn't see anyone but the most partisan pro-Arabs or raving anti-Semites making that case. You raise this red herring because YOU KNOW there is no case to be made that excuses the war crimes of the United States and Israel against civilian populations.

If it were anyone but those you consider your friends committing these acts, you would call them what they are. Basically you are saying that might makes right, and that there is no hope for international law, or for the effective implementation of the Geneva Accords. That, in turn, means that we are all at risk, civilians and soldiers, of inhumane and illegal treatment or death. Be careful what you wish for. International relations and power balances change, and the shoe may well be on the other foot someday. It may be your children or grandchildren you are condemning to a world of lawless violence.

One more time: THE US AND ISRAEL DO NOT HAVE SPECIAL RIGHTS TO BE ABOVE THE LAW AND ABOVE MORALITY. It is not a defense of suicide bombers to expect better of our own governments. And the history of these sort of conflicts clearly showa that escalation and disproportionate response are not only immoral and illegal... more importantly perhaps from your point of view, they never work. Those who engage in these responses end up wasting lives, money, and credibility, only to eventually come to the bargaining table with those they swore they would never negotiate with. THAT is how this will end, it's just a matter of when.

» So, sue me. Posted by: Sojourner
Excellent article, however....... do you really think Israel is THAT stupid?
Posted by: Pepper on Jul 18, 2006 6:02 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Do you see the pattern here between what we have done in Iraq and what Israel is doing??? Do you see where this is leading??? Remember, Bush wanted to take on Syria earlier with the murder of the Lebanon leader, then he wanted to take on Iran with three different warnings and dates. He couldn't do it because we were enmeshed in Iraq and it wasn't going well at all.

Now we are seeing coordinated propoganda with both Syria and Iran as the targets and it was almost immediately upon the attacks in Lebanon. Notice also, Homelandsecurity web site now says there is a Hezbollah terrorist cell (Al Qaeda is replaced as the bad guy) in the United States and it happens to have appeared on the net just at the same time as they are being attacked by Israel.

No, this is no mistake or some powerful emotional out of control act on their part. This has a deeper plan and its going to be interesting to see how it unfolds.

» Oceana... Emanuel Goldstein? Posted by: SufiLizard
This will NEVER end until.
Posted by: xbj on Jul 18, 2006 6:34 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This will NEVER END until we take all the money we're throwing away on useless unwinnable war, BUY BACK the entire state, land, and infrastructure of Israel from the current inhabitants that would wish to sell out AT FULL MARKET VALUE, EVACUATE ISRAEL, and give the land back to the Palenstinians, and LEAVE THE MIDEAST, PERMANENTLY.

At the same time, copying Brazil and ENDING OUR DEPENDENCE ON MIDEAST OIL, PERMANENTLY.

And to those who say it's impossible; that we have nowhere enough money to begin to do this, I say this:

It will cost FAR LESS than "endless" unwinnable war OF 40-50 years WE WILL ABSOLUTELY NEVER WIN. INCLUDING the MASSIVE PR Campaign that would be necessary to convince Israelis that emigrating to America, Canada, and Europe is in their vital best interests.

The War Against Terror, which increases the enemy with each innocent "collateral" death EXPONENTIALLY, can not be won UNTIL ALL OF ISLAM IS DESTROYED, because they will fight Amerika and Israel, to the last man, woman, and child.

Therefore, The only way to WIN the War on Terror is GENOCIDE. This is UNACCEPTABLE; Genocide is NOT AN AMERICAN VALUE. The American People will wake up far before this is accomplished and PUT A STOP TO IT.

The only way to STOP IT, NOW, is to BUY BACK, AND THEN EVACUATE ISRAEL, AND THEN GIVE IT BACK TO THE PALESTINIANS, GRATIS.

Evacuate Israel to the countries anti-semitic assholes like FDR and Harry Truman refused to let them come to in the first place, foisting them off instead on Palestine.

Here's the real problem: Israel and Offense Contractors OWN OUR GOVERNMENT. THAT'S THE PROBLEM. When a Congressmen appropriates money to Israel and Offense Contractors, they KNOW THAT MONEY is coming back DIRECTLY to them in the form of political contributions and cushy jobs after their "service."

Outlaw ALL POLITICAL CONTRIBUTIONS FROM ORGANIZATIONS, CORPORATIONS, and FOREIGN GOVERNMENTS, and limit personal political contriubtions to $1000, and you've SOLVED THAT PROBLEM. Including solving the sticky problem of the mainstream media being the whores of Political Parties because of advertising revenue.

And to anyone that says this will never work; that the terrorists are animals, want us all dead "for our freedoms" and would attack Jews wherever they went, I say to you publicly:

Your are either a moron, or woefully misguided and duped, or a Goddamned liar making money off all of this.

People are the same everywhere. They want autonomy over the land their grandfathers lived on; they want control of their own natural resources; and they want a peaceful world for themselves and their children.

This CANNOT EVER HAPPEN AS LONG AS the nation of Israel stays in Palestine.

Give the Palestinians their homeland BACK; get the heck OUT OF THE MIDEAST FOREVER, and all REAL Islamic terrorism would die.

You would then only have to worry about military/corporate complex-sponsored terrorism to ignite wars of profit, and false flag self-attacks to enrage the populace. But without a convenient "endless" enemy, this would be much more difficult for them to pull off.

Deal with the main trigger for Armageddon in the world today (the existence of Israel in Palestine instead of Zion REALLY EXISTING throughout the world in the collective nation of people of Jewish faith IN ALL NATIONS) and you make it that much harder for the military-corporate complex to start wars.

First things first.

http://auctionforpeace.org

And don't give ME any CREDIT whatsoever for this idea OR plan; this is 100% Jesus Christ's, by His own words, teaching, and life and death example.

» I love your quote Posted by: codingguy
» RE: I love your quote Posted by: xbj
» RE: I love your quote Posted by: xbj
» PEOPLE ARE THE SAME EVERYWHERE Posted by: LeonDion
» RE: Class issue Posted by: LeonDion
Stupid? Smart!
Posted by: Taurus on Jul 18, 2006 6:43 AM   
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What pap. You think there are no sub rosa contacts between Israel and its moderate neighbors about all this? You think Saudi Arabia, the UAE, Bahrain, Egypt and Jordan are not rooting for Israel like mad to push the Islamo-fascists out of the south of Lebanon and weaken their capacity for any kind of action?

I love how we on the left can be counted on for a whole range of Israel-bashing positions. Israel and Syria pulled out of Lebanon. Hizbullah has not, depsite UN resolutions, but then those resolutions only get mentioned by the Left when they're aimed at Israel.

And as somebody already mentioned, it was The Six Day War, not seven days. I can't take an article seriously when the author muffs a basic fact like that.

» RE: Stupid? Smart! Posted by: codingguy
Middle East Bloody Theatre
Posted by: shyguy709 on Jul 18, 2006 6:44 AM   
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This is a well written article...the world is watching the silly composure of supposed strategic output of the Isrealis and the Lebanesse. Both sides are not that stupid, they are brothers of the same arms and sisters at odds. lol

It was rather queer to me, sitting infront of my TV screen day and night, with the news making me to believe that the conflict in the middle East is because of captured soldiers. Oh, now we are trading soldiers for innocent civilians...it is Olmert's self defence strategy. Hezbollah and Hamas know that Israel is America's Bride. Since the Bush administration has proven unfit to handle issues in the Middle East, Israel can do it...
when are we going to know the truth and stop sabotaging the word "Terrorist"

Right to exist?
Posted by: hapibeli on Jul 18, 2006 6:54 AM   
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My God says this is my land. He, she, it gave it to me whenever. What kind of crap is that!? So if someone comes to me and says that 2,000 years ago, give or take a few centuries, their book about their god said they could take my land. I'm supposed to just sit back and praise them for following their so called faith? Huh? What? Oh, that's right. There is also a whole lotta something in a few countries nearby that some much bigger and more pwerful folks think they need or want and they need a junkyard dog in my neighborhood to protect their access to that same whole lotta something. I'll just betcha that if we Americans begin to move away from petroleum to alternative fuel sources, Israel is going to lose their sponsor. We'll no longer need that junkyard dog and their "Right to Exist" will be seen as the sham that it is. Jews are as good and/or as bad a group of human beings as any other group, but what the Israelis do in the Middle East is ugly and disgusting. More to the point, they exacerbate tensions among another fanatically religious bunch who then cause trouble elsewhwere around the globe. Israel will not last unless they cease their abuses, and possibly not even then. I give them another 100 years at the outside, but probably much less.

» RE: right to exist? Posted by: symcokid
» RE: right to exist? Posted by: symcokid
» RE: right to exist? Posted by: codingguy
» RE: right to exist? Posted by: symcokid
» RE: right to exist? Posted by: codingguy
Let's start with logic 101
Posted by: SufiLizard on Jul 18, 2006 7:31 AM   
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First let's start with a little basic logic: Condemning Israel's tactics is not the same as endorsing Hezbolah or Hamas or any of Israel's enemies. Condemning Israel's tactics, is NOT anti-semitism.

Since Israel is supposed to be our friend and close ally, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect more from them than we expect from the radical groups who seek their destruction.

And the bottom line is that Israel's attacks on civilian population and infrastructure is just as much an act of terrorism as a suicide bomber.

And it's not only wrong from a moral standpoint, it is creating a Hydra. For every terrorist you kill -- taking out innocent civilians in the process, you end up with several more people fueled with hatred and desperate for revenge. The cycle of violence is endless -- the only possible end would be complete genocide and I would hope NO ONE would condone that.

The other possible solution is to treat terrorist bombings as crimes and respond with very measured and dignified response. That's not to say not respond at all, but do it in such a way that you actually win over people's hearts and minds. You won't win over the hearts and minds of the entrenched terrorists, but you'll win over the hearts and minds of the next generation of terrorists before they can be poisoned with hatred.

Sure, it won't end the violence immediately, but then again neither does responding with more violence and at least this tactic has a light at the end of the tunnel that isn't accompanied by a mushroom cloud.

And for the record, if the U.S. had a more dignified and reasonable response to 9/11 we would have a much more peaceful world by now. Not perfect, mind you, but better than what we have now.

» RE: Let's start with logic 101 Posted by: codingguy
» RE: Let's start with logic 101 Posted by: kenhymes
» RE: Let's start with logic 101 Posted by: codingguy
» Methinks you doth protest too much Posted by: russianblue1
» You are right, SufiLizard,... Posted by: fool-on-the-hill
Monsters
Posted by: bigart on Jul 18, 2006 7:42 AM   
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Humanity is a bunch of bloody monsters. We're forever killing one another and glorifying that slaughter. Israel wants peace? Let them pull out of the occupied terittories , help the Palestinians build a viable nation and then work with Palestine and the other Muslim nations in makings good life for everyone in the area. Muslims want a good life? Let Israel know they will accept her and work with her to build Palestine and then the whole Mid-East. Let this paradygm stand for the enbtire world. Lets stop killing one another and worek together to build a good life for all.

» RE: Monsters Posted by: mrcentrist
» RE: Monsters Posted by: babs
» RE: Monsters Posted by: mrcentrist
Once again, why Iran needs nukes
Posted by: sofla100 on Jul 18, 2006 7:43 AM   
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Israel will only backdown when Iran gets it's nuclear deterrent.
Then they will understand. As it is now, they are militarily so powerful, thanks to the USA, they cannot be reasoned with. In a way, the USA is the same way. An overblown military, that needs its stupid wars to justify its existence. We need to stop the bloodshed, stop dominating and subjagating people. As for GWB, everyone knows his "exporting democracy," is really just exporting Halliburton and Cononco-Phillips.

» 1st Amendment, applied globally Posted by: cold2touch
Lefties: Stop try to argue with Zionists
Posted by: shinseiji on Jul 18, 2006 7:55 AM   
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I see all the "leftwing" or "liberal" zionists have crawled out of the woodwork.

Look folks, Zionism is a fanatical radical right wing ideology, an ideology suited for a racist apartheid state, worse than South Africa ever was.

But even worse for the possibility of any debate, here in the US it is an ideology espoused by some people who otherwise think of themselves as "liberals" or even "leftists". In this case, you are attempting to cary out a discussion with people lost in a deep state of confusion, people the DO NOT KNOW WHO THEY ARE OR WHAT THEY ARE BECOMING: Radical rightists, perhaps America's future fascists. Recall that Richard Perle and other "neocons" were once "Trotskysts", so too was Benito Mussolini once a Socialist. Many Nazis too also thought of themselves as some kind of "socialist", until the Night of the Long Knives at least.

Hence we suddenly see "leftists" writing about the "need" for Israel to use an "iron fist", rantings about "terrorism", etc. that would make Irving Kristol or the editors of the Wall Street Journal proud. That is where such "leftists" belong.

So don't bother with "left" Zionists - they'll just go bezerk and will start hissing and call you an "antisemite" and other absurdities. They're nuts.

Instead, discuss this issue with Americans sincerely appalled, not only by Israels actions, but even more so by the US's unique role as Israel's exclusive enabler, and point to the terrible example of the US invasion and occupation of Iraq as illustrating the profound dangers of the "Zionization" of the United States as the royal road to an American fascism.

» Well said, but Posted by: russianblue1
» RE: Well said, but Posted by: codingguy
» Nobody Posted by: russianblue1
Israel is protecting their "right" to kidnap
Posted by: bqtrain on Jul 18, 2006 8:01 AM   
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Few readers of a British newspaper would have noticed the story. In the Observer of 25 June, it merited a mere paragraph hidden in the “World in brief” section, revealing that the previous day a team of Israeli commandos had entered the Gaza Strip to “detain” two Palestinians Israel claims are members of Hamas.

The significance of the mission was alluded to in a final phrase describing this as “the first arrest raid in the territory since Israel pulled out of the area a year ago”. More precisely, it was the first time the Israeli army had re-entered the Gaza Strip, directly violating Palestinian control of the territory, since it supposedly left in August last year.


Kidnapped by Israel

Millions of peoples lives are being affected so Israel can protect their "right" to cross other nation's borders and kidnap people at their own will. It's pretty amazing how indoctrinated we are when we have the greatest protections of speech in the history of the world and our press portrays this conflict as a benevolent nation making difficult decisions about whether to use force or diplomacy in the face of irrational sociopaths who only want to bring about death. A 10 year old could do a more rational analysis of this situation than what is done in our press.

Darfur
Posted by: ungerbn on Jul 18, 2006 9:48 AM   
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I apprecia