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Kids Kill In Violent Christian Videogame
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Evangelical videogame makers are praying that Eternal Forces will finally enable them to tap into the $25 billion global videogame market. They hope their "Christian" values-themed game will capture the same audience that has made bestsellers out of violent standards like Grand Theft Auto and Halo 2.
The Left Behind: Eternal Forces videogame is based upon the wildly profitable "Left Behind" series, written by Rev. Timothy LaHaye and Jerry Jenkins. The "Left Behind" books have sold roughly 65 million copies and are second only to the Bible in sales of Christian texts. The series revolves around an eccentric interpretation of the Bible that sets the Armageddon in Iraq and refers to Saddam Hussein as a servant of Satan. President Bush is a big fan of Rev. LaHaye's brand of dominionism. Prior to the 2000 election, Bush met with LaHaye and other Christian fundamentalist leaders to cultivate the support of the religious right.
Game point, spirit point
Eternal Forces is a real-time strategy videogame, meaning that a player manipulates an entire army simultaneously, as opposed to the common first-person shooter games in which a player controls only one character. In essence, the player becomes the commander of a virtual army, deciding when to unleash weapons from an arsenal of guns, tanks and helicopters. Of course, since this is an evangelical game, soldiers lose "spirit points" each time they kill an opponent, leaving them prey to the Antichrist's forces and in dire need of replenishment through prayer. To top it off, each time a soldier slays one of the Antichrist's soldiers (who are UN Peacekeepers, remember), he triumphantly cries, "Praise the Lord!"
Eternal Forces caught the media's attention in May, when it premiered at the Electronic Entertainment Expo. The Los Angeles Times reported that in order to foster buzz for the videogame, the game's co-creators, Troy Lyndon and Jeffrey Frichner, plan to issue a million advanced copies to churches nationwide. That announcement galvanized Jonathan Hutson of Talk To Action, a forum for discussing the religious right, into action. Hutson, who identifies himself as a Christian and a patriot, said by phone, "I'm offended by a game that allows children to rehearse mass killing in the name of Christ or the Antichrist."
In several lengthy blog posts, Hutson charged that Left Behind: Eternal Forces usurps the now iconic imagery of 9/11 because it is set in a post-apocalyptic New York. "Why are the ambulances patrolling the streets with '911' written on their roofs instead of a normal paramedic star or cross?" Hutson questioned. "It's outrageous to exploit September 11th to make a buck!" Hutson also alleged the game's "Praise the Lord!" battle cry is not far from the "God is great!" words of the World Trade Center terrorists. (Left Behind Games was formed in October 2001.)
Hutson's primary objection to Eternal Forces is Left Behind's proposed marketing campaign. The strategy of advanced distribution through mega-churches and pastoral networks has been employed in the past few years with resounding results. Both The Passion of the Christ and The Chronicles of Narnia were screened in churches throughout the country before theatrical release. A more notable example is The Purpose-Driven Life, the bestseller by evangelical pastor Rick Warren. Prior to publication in 2002, Warren distributed a million copies through his Purpose Driven Network of mega-churches with congregations in 162 countries worldwide. The book went on to sell over 22 million copies to become the all-time best-selling nonfiction hardback.
While Left Behind's decision to follow a proven business model isn't particularly surprising, Hutchinson discovered a startling level of collusion between Left Behind and Rick Warren.
Mark Carver, the executive director of Purpose Driven Ministries in every region except North America, turned out to be the business advisor to Left Behind Games. Hutson was incensed by this apparent conflict of interest, which he termed "endorsement by association." He challenged, "Where is the pastoral leadership while a bigoted videogame is being networked and marketed through mega-churches?" After two heated posts on Talk To Action that echoed across the blogosphere from the Huffington Post to BlondeSense to Andrew Sullivan's Daily Dish, Mark Carver resigned on June 5. A day later, Hutson received official word from Purpose Driven notifying him of Carver's resignation and declaring that Warren and Purpose Driven had no plans to endorse Left Behind: Eternal Forces.
Pop-culture sewage
Hutson isn't the only one outraged by Left Behind: Eternal Forces. When Jack Thompson, an attorney and crusader against videogame violence, learned that Tyndale Publishers permitted Left Behind Games to adapt the Left Behind series, he dissolved his relationship with the publishing company. In addition to the Left Behind books, Tyndale also publishes James Dobson and Thompson's own manifesto on the dangers of videogames, Out of Harm's Way.
Thompson said he hadn't read the "Left Behind" series, but says there is a difference between the books, which are targeted toward adults, and the book-based videogame for adolescents. "[Left Behind Games] is taking adult-themed violence and marketing directly to kids," Thompson said from his Miami office. "It's a perfect example of how we're exporting pop-culture sewage to the rest of the world."
Thompson cited brain scan studies by Harvard and Indiana University that he claimed illustrate a link between witnessing videogame violence and copycat crimes. "There's an inherent, emotion-driven impulse in juveniles," he said. "Every parent knows that what kids get in their heads has behavioral consequences." Thompson said Left Behind's decision to distribute a million advance copies of their videogame to mega-churches nationwide is "a dangerous, hypocritical, non-Christian thing to do, and an example of how pop culture is transforming the church."
Level of violence
Jonathan Hutson says he wasn't opposed to videogame violence per se. "The level of violence in this videogame is not at issue," he said. "Rather, it's the indoctrination in Christian supremacy because the game rehearses and instructs children in the mass killing of New Yorkers for the sake of Christ and that is an abomination." He also said he was appalled that in Eternal Forces, corpses are left on the streets. "It's outrageous that this game has a feature to allow cold corpses of New Yorkers to pile up on the streets. No one gives them a decent burial."
While Left Behind denied repeated requests for an interview, it did issue a formal statement. The company dismissed Hutson's remarks, insisting that he was unqualified to comment on the game because he hadn't played it. Left Behind did, however, verify that LaHaye's anti-government philosophy had found its way into the videogame. "The Antichrist's forces are on the warpath, actively hunting down and exterminating all resistance to his one-world government. This includes the good guys -- the Tribulation Force -- defending themselves against Satan."
Left Behind maintained that while there is violence in the game, it's not bloody or graphic, and it anticipates getting a Teen (T) rating from the Entertainment Software Ratings Board.
The question remains whether Left Behind can justify its videogame violence with the Bible. If a player's only penalty for killing New Yorkers is a loss in spiritual points, then violence actually goes less punished in Eternal Forces than in seemingly more violent competition like Grand Theft Auto, in which homicide results in being pursued and arrested by the police. And in Grand Theft Auto, bodies disappear shortly after being killed.
Evangelical Gamers fire back
Although Left Behind wasn't eager to discuss its videogame, other evangelical videogame developers regard Eternal Forces as the breakthrough they've been waiting for to bring Christian games into the mainstream. Ralph Bagley, the godfather of Christian gaming, runs Christian Game Developers Foundation. Until now, its titles Catechumen and Ominous Horizons have been the darlings of the Christian videogame industry, having sold about 80,000 and 70,000 copies, respectively. "We've fought the perception that if it's a Christian videogame," Bagley said, "then it has to be cheesy with sub-par graphics."
Bagley hopes Left Behind: Eternal Forces will prove that Christian videogames can be both high-quality tools to reach people through ministry and entertaining alternatives to current videogame hits. He is not alone. Greg Schumsky, CEO of Covenant Studios, knows there are not a lot of Christian games out there for older audiences. Following in the wake of Eternal Forces, Covenant plans to release a game next spring called Journey of the Time Pilots, which involves traveling through time to catch Nazis who have stolen religious artifacts for Hitler.
"I think this game is going to open the doors for other games to get into the mainstream market," Schumsky said of Eternal Forces. Like Schumsky, most Christian game developers covet the mainstream audience and feel the reason they haven't broken through is because videogame critics compare their games to more successful market standards like Grand Theft Auto. Christian game developers say the comparison is unfair because they believe their games are morally superior.
Neither Schumsky nor Bagley seem too worried about violence in videogames.
"'Revelations' is pretty darn violent to begin with," Schumsky said, "so how do you candycoat that?" In the past, however, Bagley has spoken out against violence in games like Grand Theft Auto and Narc. When I asked Bagley whether he would mind gamers playing as the Antichrist, he replied, "As long as Christ wins out in the end, I'm open as long as it doesn't go overboard, though the last thing I would want to see is people getting on there just to kill."
Bagley said there was a distinction between running street gangs in videogames and commanding the anti-Tribulation force in Left Behind. He thinks this violence can be portrayed in a "tasteful manner," if done within the storyline. Unlike Jack Thompson, Bagley doesn't believe that videogame violence invariably leads to enhanced aggression in game players. "I think maybe 99.9% of kids playing Grand Theft Auto and other games probably won't be affected. I pray the rest won't be affected by the violence."
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Posted by: nbrown on Jul 21, 2006 1:27 AM
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And here of course, it's the relationship between Christianity and totalitarianism. (Let's be honest: mass killings? Show me a liberty government that does this.)
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» RE: eminds me of an Onion article
Posted by: amy analog
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Posted by: kgs1947 on Jul 21, 2006 3:58 AM
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Wow! We are certainly sliding down the shute of moral ignorance...saluting all the way to the Emperor who has no clothes.
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» Sick as Ever!
Posted by: amalsbury
» RE: Sick as Ever! - Think again, and again and again...
Posted by: Vani
» RE: Sick as Ever!
Posted by: amy analog
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Posted by: Moonray on Jul 21, 2006 4:07 AM
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A good example: Hitler's Nazis, many of whom wore belt buckles emblazoned with "God Is With Us", "God Is On Our Side" and similar sentiments. Often overlooked is the fact that Hitler and other Nazi leaders were obsessed with Christian mysticism.
And now we also have extremist Muslims running amok.
Humanity could be entering its final years on this planet, mainly because we haven't learned to put religion behind us and function as rational beings.
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Posted by: marxalot on Jul 21, 2006 4:18 AM
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The Left Behind series is also available in a condensed young-adults version. It would be a major business blunder to leave the youth market unplundered I suppose. This game sounds exceedingly sicko though. Hope Christ can forgive us.
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» RE: LB for Young Adults
Posted by: jcutler9
» RE: LB for Young Adults
Posted by: Bab5nutz
» RE: LB for Young Adults
Posted by: usernamexyz
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Posted by: Tom Degan on Jul 21, 2006 4:24 AM
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Here's the line that Dubya conveniantly omitted:
And in despair I bowed my head
"There is no peace on earth", I said
For hate is strong
And mocks the song
Of Peace on earth, good will toward men....
Merry Christmas, everybody!
Pray for peace
Tom Degan
Goshen, NY
Tom Degan's Daily Rant
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» I was just thinkin'....
Posted by: Tom Degan
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Posted by: paulaH on Jul 21, 2006 4:38 AM
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This is just one more example of Christian hypocracy in the extreme. THOU SHALT NOT KILL!!!!....Unless, of course, you yell "Jesus" first. Then it's okay. Killing in the name of Jesus is fine. So, if Bundy had said, "The Lord is good," before murdering his victims and said, "I'm killing you in the name of Jesus," then his crimes would not have been crimes at all, but mere expressions of his love for his Lord Jesus Christ.
Great game, Mr and Mrs moral Christian. Very moral game. Kill, kill, kill, but only if you say you do it in Jesus' name. Let the bodies pile up...as long as they are what you consider your evil enemy. Face it, in the viewpoint of the other army, your christian army are the godless, evil ones.
Unless they rigged the game for the Antichrist army to always lose, a lot of those kids are going to be playing the Antichrist army and defeat the Christian army. These kids are damned good at these games. So is the game rigged? If so, what kind of game is that? What does that teach? Your religion is so flawed that the only way you can win a battle is to cheat? Do you think that is what will happen if the battle actually falls on your doorstep in reality? Will the Antichrist group lose because you've rigged the game?
Also, what does it say about a religion that has to go with the attitude of "if you can't beat them, join them"? Does this not show that religion does not have the Truth behind them? After all, if it's the Truth, it will stand on its own and many people will just be drawn to it. People aren't drawn to Christianity. They're shoved into it, either by being taken for brainwashing as children or by being scared into it as adults.
I could go on and on. I would like to end my tirade with this thought, though. Christians, this just proves our theory that the One True God of which the Christians speak is called money.
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» RE: Violence is okay as long as it's Christian violence
Posted by: Kym525
» Not actually rigged but...
Posted by: Swatopluk
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Posted by: Lizmv on Jul 21, 2006 4:42 AM
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Just read this list, then take a good look around you!
The signs and symptoms of psychosis include:
* loss of touch with reality
* delusions, or false beliefs
* illusions, or mistaken beliefs
* seeing, hearing, or perceiving things that are not there
* disorganized speech
* excitement
* confusion
* depression
* agitated and inattentive behavior
* Lack of awareness of mental change
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Posted by: yoursfaithfully on Jul 21, 2006 5:16 AM
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These fundamentalist Christian views are consistent: their god is the only god; their faith has enemies; violence against those enemies is sanctioned by god. Many Americans feel that way.
Some Christians can argue that these guys aren't *real* Christians because Jesus turned the other cheek, but do we really need a theological debate in this country about what makes a *real* Christian? I realize that this is the way some progressive movements are turning, but I am not sure it is the right way to go.
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» RE: Not surprising, but the video game isn't the problem
Posted by: HeroesAll
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Posted by: wawa on Jul 21, 2006 5:53 AM
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No Christian ever served in the army until Emperor Constantine realized that to unite his empire he should unite the church, which up until then was a diverse group with MANY different understandings of who Christ was and what he was about. St. Augustine was the first to corrupt the gospel when penned the "Just War Theory"
One topic in my soon to be published novel is explaining the cult of Christian Zionism. Last June Mordecahi Vanunu [the ex-con and Whistleblower of Israel's WMD Program]
and I walked up the Mount of Olives discussing the cults influence and that conversation -distilled through the fictional character Jack, became the following:
“When I was in rehab, I got hold of a very bad book. It was called Left Behind. What got left behind was the gospel of peace and love. These books are bad theology and poor literature. Did you know that in America there are Christians who actually want Armageddon? They believe they will escape the nuclear holocaust because they are now the new chosen ones. They think they will be raptured; they think they will be lifted out of the world. They believe a theology of escapism and they ignore that Christ promised that ‘The peacemakers shall be called the children of God’ and that Jesus is the Prince of Peace.”
Vanunu replied, “The time has come for the United States to see the truth of Zionism. It began as a secular nationalist movement, not a religious one. Then some Christians believed that when Israel became a nation, it was the beginning of the second coming. They are deluded if they believe peace will come through atomic weapons. Atomic weapons are holocaust weapons. Christians should be the first people against them. The Christians in America should be helping the Christians here. America needs to wake up to this fallacy that Jesus will come back by nuclear war. America needs to wake up to the fact that the Palestinian Christians here have no human rights. Aren’t Christians supposed to be concerned about other Christians? Aren’t Christians supposed to be concerned about all the poor and oppressed?”
Jack had become agitated. “It is non-negotiable: all of that stuff Jesus said about doing for the least and the oppressed. It is non-negotiable for Christians; we must forgive our enemies, and we must love those who hate us. Whatever we do or do not do, we do it unto God. Every time I went through a checkpoint, saw the wall, or heard a story of oppression, I wondered how God can stand this situation. I can’t.”
The following is Excerpted From
"Is this creep-show catastrophe biblical?"
by Elizabeth Palmberg
"In other words, the main problem with the Left Behind movies and books is not the biblical literalism they incorrectly lay claim to over and over. The real problem is that Left Behind is a big old plateload of neo-con neo-gnosticism designed to almost completely ignore some of the most clearly stated points of Revelation (and the gospels), in the pursuit of a particular, arguably idolatrous, present-day political mythology....But the Left Behind films are not about discerning the actual signs of the times; they’re about a extreme right-wing political script shaped over the last few decades...."
continues on July 21, 2006 WAWA blog
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Posted by: Reader11722 on Jul 21, 2006 6:26 AM
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Final link (before Google Books drops the title due to pressure):
http://www.iuniverse.com/bookstore
/book_detail.asp?&isbn=0-595-38523-0
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» America deceived
Posted by: BlueTigress
» RE: America deceived
Posted by: Vani
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Posted by: Riverside on Jul 21, 2006 7:16 AM
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Good Christians, good Islamic Muslims, good Jews, good other faiths who practice peace and compassion toward everyone are in grave peril. We will be overrun by these crazed warriors that have absolutely nothing to do with Armageddon, or Jesus, or God, or Allah. It is a rush for power that uses hacked religion as the theory and terror and warfare as the methodology for conquest and control.
From a religious standpoint the leaders of the real faiths need to step forward and declare these fake religious armies as heretics and a real threat to true religion. Politicallly, we the people need to make it clear we will not elect religious fanatics or tolerate one more soldier in one more war of theocratic opportunism.
Finally we must seriously ask ourselves, "how many nutcases does it take to destroy the world?" WE are not just talking about elections we are talking about saving humankind. Can we do it? Will we do it?
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» RE: Scared In Pennsylvania
Posted by: VannaLaRoche
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Posted by: mishtick on Jul 21, 2006 7:28 AM
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Posted by: jimhurt on Jul 21, 2006 7:52 AM
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Posted by: brunowe on Jul 21, 2006 8:42 AM
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» Thank You
Posted by: Joe Ox
» RE: NO Thank You
Posted by: texshelters
» Oh, it's just a video game - BS!!!!!
Posted by: Vani
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Posted by: Kym525 on Jul 21, 2006 8:45 AM
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Oh wait, I think I get it now. As long as you're killing 'non-Christians' (even CGI ones) in the name of God, that's okay. This is a game with a 'profound moral message'.
And I've got a bridge in Brooklyn I'm selling for dirt cheap.
Are any of us all that surprised that these sick people are planning to whore this crap out in megachurches and that they're going to market this game to kids?
Hey my fellow liberal/left Christians and even moderate evangelicals...what are we going to Do about this? It's time to clean the thieves out of the temple.
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» All you can do
Posted by: owleyes
» RE: All you can do
Posted by: Kym525
» RE: Gotta Love the Hypocrisy
Posted by: MatthewSavage
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Posted by: owleyes on Jul 21, 2006 9:08 AM
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Posted by: Raider on Jul 21, 2006 9:13 AM
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Posted by: ABetterFuture on Jul 21, 2006 9:19 AM
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Problem solved.
For the record (and as a casual computer gamer), there are plenty of video games that prominently feature killing, with characters such as Vampires (Bloodlines: TM), Middle Easterners (BF2), Asians (Mortal Kombat), Barbarians (Every adventure game ever made), Ghetto Pimps and Thieves (Grand Theft Auto), Scientists (Half-Life)...
etc...
etc...
There are games where you play god, steer civilizations, make war, trade, conquer galaxies...
If you don't like video games, then I suggest you go back to the boob tube and check out You Next American Idol. :) If it makes you sleep any better knowing what other people are or aren't doing in their free time, "religious themed" video games have historically all been flops. Young adults and middle-aged men (yup, those two groups are the target demographic) just aren't interested.
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» RE: Who cares?
Posted by: YogiBear
» Tough one...let's see...
Posted by: ABetterFuture
» RE: Who cares?
Posted by: Kym525
» Hypocrisy...
Posted by: ABetterFuture
» RE: Hypocrisy...
Posted by: Kym525
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Posted by: daniel1982 on Jul 21, 2006 9:25 AM
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» Did Ja Ever Notice
Posted by: Artkansas
» RE: Did Ja Ever Notice
Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: Did Ja Ever Notice
Posted by: daniel1982
» RE: Did Ja Ever Notice
Posted by: Artkansas
» RE: so what?
Posted by: Raider
» Well Said Raider
Posted by: Vani
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Posted by: The Southpaw on Jul 21, 2006 9:27 AM
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Finally, games are becoming more and more story-intensive. Enemies are fought for more than just "they're the bad guys". Anyone who has played Halo or Warcraft III or Prey knows exactly what I'm talking about. It's a mark of a good title that it can suck the player into a deep, multilayered and compelling story, and the Left Behind series doesn't exactly have that. You have the kill the enemy just because they are not you, a poor motivation considering the vivid plots in other RTSs.
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» RE: 10-to-1 this isn't going to work out
Posted by: MatthewSavage
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Posted by: Roverton on Jul 21, 2006 9:35 AM
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Monsters are being bred by this.
Right and Wrong are being erased from these childern's minds.
Digital Hitler Youths. Brown Shirts on line.
Christians, address this cancer within your own house or go down along with the rest of humanity, having served Christianity's WORST enemy of all time.
The original foe has gotten into the Church.
Only a coward would refuse to admit that now.
It's Satanic.
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Posted by: MatthewSavage on Jul 21, 2006 10:06 AM
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Many people also interpret this precept to include the mind; that is, don't expose yourself to violence and negative feelings that you don't have to (which is not to say don't turn away from violence and oppression when you can do something about it, but don't take delight in hunting or games of war). By that logic, this game would be poison. It is willful, freely chosen violence against pretend-people. To even spend time thinking about committing violence is activating the wrong parts of the mind.
Thik Nhat Han (sorry... can't remember how to spell his name) talks about everybody having the seeds of both good and evil in the mind, and as for which will grow best, well... which one are you going to water most? The seeds of evil and violence are grown by violent thoughts. This videogame certianly will aid in those violent thoughts.
Why the talk of Buddhism? Well, if you actually read abuot what Jesus said and did, it's pretty close to Buddhism. I do go to a Christian church and call myself Christian, but I'm just a few temple visits shy of calling myself Buddhist, too. And they both share a doctrine of non-violence.
The whole premise of this game seems to be based on a willful mis-interpretation and extrapolation from a few texts within the Bible that has nothing to do with Christ or his teachings.
All of that aside, is this a good game? That's what will determine if children will play it. The supposedly Christian theme of the game may get it sales (parents of teens may buy it for them), but kids won't play it unless they enjoy it, and they won't enjoy it unless it's a fun game to play. I somehow doubt that it is.
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Posted by: vibral on Jul 21, 2006 10:44 AM
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I grew up playing Grand Theft, and James Bond, and Doom, and all other manner of games... the "poison" is a also a dose/window into many people's chosen or unchosen reality, and especially many children of the world. Not that I'm promoting this game as any kind of documentary experience-- but I think that if people believe that children are going to be imprinted as murderers and rapists by one game, then you are people who have no respect or optimism for the future and I have no idea how you can wake up and even try.
Note that Tipper Gore and Hillary Clinton are some of the most outspoken video game critics-- not Christians. And frankly, I think it's all part of a symbiotic spin machine-- where Hillary and "Grand Theft" both get extra press for being seemingly controversial, but truly just distracting us yet again from other issues much more important for children.
Don't get me wrong-- as a New Yorker for six years (and yes I was 20 blocks away when the planes hit), and one who greatly fears threatening christians, threatening muslims, and threatening governments-- this game scares the shit out of me. But I'm so sick and tired of liberals making arguments in support of "reasonable" censorship-- and I think the fact that this topic invigorates us to the "action" of "blogging" shows that we too are merely respondents (as opposed to initiators) in the paradigm of a Violent Culture.
Any ideas for a Peace Initiative that doesn't involve being anti-?
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» RE: Let's Give Kids Some Credit
Posted by: vibral
» RE: Let's Give Kids Some Credit
Posted by: LauraK
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Posted by: hrhodes on Jul 21, 2006 10:48 AM
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Posted by: Raider on Jul 21, 2006 11:03 AM
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Posted by: headhunter on Jul 21, 2006 11:28 AM
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» RE: I laughed
Posted by: MatthewSavage
» The best quote on the game-to-real-life conversion...
Posted by: ABetterFuture
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Posted by: Ahimsa on Jul 21, 2006 11:31 AM
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How to criticize an ideology embraced by mindboggling amounts of people?
The seeds of these ideas are found in the Bible and other holy books. However, I cannot blame all christians, jews or bible followers.
I talk to friends about this, sometimes only to find myself being cast as the radical nut that is against anything religious, which I am not.
How to articulate a rhetoric based on humanism, non-violence and respect that is convincing to the "holy"?
In this times of innumerable messages and soundbytes, how to say something that has the strength of truth?
I suppose sane christians, jews and muslims (and please, hindus and buddhists, and...) need to come together more strongly....and soon! And form a front with humanistic agnostics towards the common goal of peace.
Any ideas? Geez, I feel utopian today...
Ahimsa Paramo Dharma
(No-Harm is the supreme duty)
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» RE: As a non-christian
Posted by: MatthewSavage
» RE: As a non-christian
Posted by: Ahimsa
» RE: As a non-christian
Posted by: mysanal
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Posted by: davidbdr on Jul 21, 2006 12:06 PM
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A game can't be designed to be successful. It doesn't work that way. If the little, brain-warped soldiers for Jesus want to play the game--let 'em. It won't be the first act of hypocrisy we've seen from the "Christian" Right Wing-Nuts. All I know is the Jesus I've read about in the New Testament and other sources would be appalled at how much hate and violence is waged in his name. Ever wonder who the wolves in sheep's clothing really are? That has never been hard to figure out.
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Posted by: deo508 on Jul 21, 2006 1:54 PM
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We need to be prepared for rapture - and for the shhh, say it softly, JEW, who may decide at the last moment not to accdept Jesus as his/her lord saviour. KILL for Jesus - Yay says our supreme leaders - the ones collecting millions of dollars of bloodlust. Ah, amen brother. Lets have a kill & prayer party tonight.
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Posted by: xbj on Jul 21, 2006 3:03 PM
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Hope the makers and designers spend Eternity living it for real, over and over. Not my idea; Rod Serling's.
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Posted by: just john on Jul 21, 2006 3:25 PM
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Anyway, THAT's why the number's on ambulances, as it is today.
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» RE: e: "911"
Posted by: nootau
» RE: e: "911 is NOT on top and not on sides in real life"
Posted by: nootau
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Posted by: supercrisp on Jul 21, 2006 3:59 PM
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Posted by: TerryS on Jul 21, 2006 7:47 PM
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Alternet is shinning a spotlight on this
horrible game.
That said, it really bothers me that the
attitude toward video games among
progressives seems to be:
Christians killing non-Christians - Bad, Bad, Bad !!
Thief killing cop, ho or bystander - whatever (it's not real!)
It's always fun to make fun of Christian
hypocrisy, but "why beholdest thou the mote that
is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the
beam that is in thine own eye?"
* * * *
And for those of you who believe in science:
"Violent video games can increase aggressive
behavior in children and adolescents, both in
the short- and long-term, according to an
empirical review of the last 20 years of research.
These findings are presented at the 113th Annual
Convention of the American Psychological Association
in Washington, DC."
http://www.apa.org/releases/violentvideoC05.html
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Posted by: paulaH on Jul 22, 2006 6:11 PM
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Posted by: Thorrific on Jul 23, 2006 1:07 PM
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Red Heifer, war profiteering, war contractors, Third Temple, Second Coming, Pentagon, Al-Aqsa Mosque, Jesus, animal sacrifice, Moses, Bible, Armageddon, Apocalypse, HILARIOUS!!!
Not safe for work, may offend whimpys.
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Posted by: goodgames on Jul 23, 2006 4:17 PM
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1. Yes, I hope that a Christian game, or Christian-themed game comes out that does well in the mainstream market. Why? Simple. We make Christian games (well, we have one for now, and are a year old). The problem is it is only sold in the Christian market, i.e. Bible book stores, etc. As a Christian (and it doesn't matter what "religion" of Christianity one is, though I prefer to be considered part of the Christian faith, and I'm Catholic), we're supposed to witness or make people aware of Christ, his teachings, peace, and so on. Christ did not hang out with the Pharisees and Rabbi's, He hung out with people who needed Him most: tax collectors, hookers..people who needed to know that God was their friend and loved them. Christ taught peace and love. Simple as that. Okay, so back to the subject of the game Left Behind, and what we (Covenant Studios) are doing. Currently, funding for Christian games is tough to get. We produce what we can with what little budgets we have. Then we come out with the games, and non-Christian reviewers say "The graphics aren't as good as Warcraft, the sound isn't as good as Doom..." etc. Investors see that and don't want to help, though we do have people working for us who are some of the most talented in the game and film industry. But we're limited in how much we can do when our budget is $60,000, versus $600,000 or $6 million. That's a basic fact.
So, how do we get reviewers to say nice things? Come out with a game that is AAA, appeals to a vast audience (we want to get EVERYONE to play our games), contains some sort of Christian theme without being preachy, but is a integral part of the story and game play (since that is our goal), have great game play and characters people can identify with, and make it for consoles.
That takes a lot of money.
We're hoping Journey of The Time Pilots will be that game. But if LB breaks down the "Christian games aren't that great" wall, then investors won't be so shy to invest in even better games. I don't like LB or the idea of the game, being able to kill anyone (Christians alike) who is not an evangelical, or Jews, or characters who want to be saved (which Christ did..). Why can't players be given the chance to save npc's?
Our goal is to make games that are extremely engaging, fun, and as non-violent as possible (because we're Christians). JOTTP is a WWII Time-Travel Epic, with lots of action, mystery, aerial dog fights, puzzle solving using biblical scripture, vehicles to drive, and NO killing. Period.
I think it will do very well personally, and a lot pf people, whether Christian or not, will want to play it, without having to resort to all the tricks of other RPG's, MMO's, RTS's, and so on.
Personally, I'm not too thrilled by LB. If it does well, then that helps us to get out a game I feel will be way better, on a lot of levels. I don't think killing is necessary, nor being able to choose between being on the side of God or the Devil (okay, Star Wars is an exception, with good and evil, because it's fictional fun, and shooting clone troopers is like someone mentioned earlier how aliens and Nazis make good targets), is necessary to get people to buy and play a game.
I wish our game came out first and was the one to break down the mainstream market walls.
But for now it's not. But who knows. Maybe LB will flop (one Sony exec seems to think it will). I hope it doesn't cause a backlash against all other Christian games. That would truly suck. And maybe, our game will be the one to make a really good difference.
Greg
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» RE: What I really think of Left Behind...
Posted by: Thorrific
» RE: What I really think of Left Behind...
Posted by: sarah1
» RE: What I really think of Left Behind...
Posted by: ChorusOfOne
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Posted by: sarah1 on Jul 24, 2006 11:42 AM
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» RE1: fundamentalist Christian
Posted by: Bilal Zaiter
» RE2: fundamentalist Christian
Posted by: Bilal Zaiter
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Posted by: timbrown on Jul 24, 2006 3:05 PM
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The first thing that saddens me is that someone representing the name of Christ would come out with a product like this.
Are these guys real Christians? I don't know. I DO know that not everyone who claims to be a Christian is one. Jesus Himself told us this in Matthew 7 when He said "Many will say to me Lord, Lord..." but he will cast them out of His presence because they weren't true converts.
The second thing that is tragic about this is that it teaches a false theology and of course a false application. As a conservative, Bible believing Christian, the idea of killing those who 'won't convert' is about as far from biblicism as one can get. We give the message and if its not received, we leave it with them and pray that a seed was planted and will oneday grow.
Did God tell the Hebrews to take the land from the Caananites and direct them to kill them? Yes. But God had already given them that land and the Caananites They were a people who refused to give up their false worship and God had passed judgement on them. But this kind of stuff has no basis in scripture. And those of us who know the Lord know this.
As this world spins down and the time of the end draws ever nearer, this will be on the increase. It will be junk like this that will contribute to an increasing stereotyping of biblical Christianity.
Is real Christianity being portrayed accurately? Of course not. But to many that doesn't matter. The only thing that matters to alot of people is that it shows them what they want to see. But this isn't the Christianity born of God's Spirit. And this really saddens me. In a day where it's politically correct to bash the Christian faith, the enemy of the human soul has provided a straw man to mislead those who choose to not see. And in accepting that lie, they refuse to see the truth.
What better way to lead people to hell than to get them chasing rabbits?
10 out of 10 people die. Do you consider yourself to be a good person?
http://www.needgod.com
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» RE: This saddens me...
Posted by: Bilal Zaiter
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Posted by: Thorrific on Jul 24, 2006 7:28 PM
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That's crazy talk too. If you believe that racist genocide nonsense, and if you actually think that you have just put forth a factual, rational, and rational argument, then what you believe is just as insane as that "Left Behind" crap.
Quit whining and wake up to reality. What you believe just isn't true.
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Posted by: sarah1 on Jul 24, 2006 7:59 PM
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Posted by: blogmommy on Jul 25, 2006 4:49 AM
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Posted by: autocraticforcefeed on Jul 26, 2006 8:32 AM
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Actually, there's a whole division of the Left Behind empire that translates the books as "Left Behind- For Kids." I used to work the customer service desk and Barnes and Noble and meet a lot of psychotic, bigoted parents who would be forcing their kids to read that instead of Harry Potter. I guess mass extermination is better than harnessing magical powers to enact great good.
P.S.- I might be kind of nuts, but as hateful and horrible as the game sounds, I feel like it might be kind of fun to play. I'm completely against the Hilary Clinton bullshit censorship wing of the democratic party. Violence is a cultural phenomenom (and btw, it's almost exclusively a male past-time). It's not caused by a single video game and restricting freedom of expression is not going to prevent anything, though it cause a lot of already disenfranchised teens to be turned off to politics. We need to create a society that reacts to violence- the real violence, not just simulated violence- with disdain and distrust (by, say calling for a cease-fire in Lebanon- or punishing U.N. member nations that participate in war crimes of said war crimes).
Besides, violent video games do their part by creating an alternative to a much more serious, much more violent, and much more culturally dangerous activity that is rarely discussed or criticized, but has a much more damaging effect on the youths who participate in it- Hunting. Why criticize someone for shooting cops who can shoot back at you in GTA when one of our most cherished sports (beloved by both 2004 presidential candidates) involves the hopeless slaughter of defenseless animals? Why harp on the fact that social outcasts who torture small animals grow up to be serial killers without also considering who socially celebrated youngsters kill animals with their dads and grow up to be military brats who engage in all manner of atrocities?
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» RE: Left Behind is for Kids
Posted by: TerryS
» RE: Left Behind is for Kids
Posted by: mysanal
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Posted by: dallooccio on Jul 28, 2006 7:39 PM
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violent video games are bad enough. but this 'The Left Behind: Eternal Forces' hits an all time dangerous low. what have we become?
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Posted by: dallooccio on Jul 28, 2006 7:53 PM
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it's just like Gandhi said-"I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ."
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Posted by: alifiz on Aug 11, 2006 2:12 PM
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And anyway, no one knows for sure about religion in any case. How do we know that what we believe is the truth? Is the truth for us the same as the truth for another?
I just love how people can be "open-minded" until they encounter someone who is strong in their beliefs, which differ from their own. Those people are fanatics.
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Posted by: mulac28 on Aug 30, 2006 8:49 PM
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Posted by: umo on Dec 18, 2006 4:11 AM
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Posted by: umo on Dec 21, 2006 9:58 AM
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Posted by: pollar on Jan 29, 2007 12:15 PM
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Posted by: nbrown on Jul 21, 2006 1:27 AM
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And here of course, it's the relationship between Christianity and totalitarianism. (Let's be honest: mass killings? Show me a liberty government that does this.)
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» RE: eminds me of an Onion article
Posted by: amy analog
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Posted by: kgs1947 on Jul 21, 2006 3:58 AM
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Wow! We are certainly sliding down the shute of moral ignorance...saluting all the way to the Emperor who has no clothes.
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» Sick as Ever!
Posted by: amalsbury
» RE: Sick as Ever! - Think again, and again and again...
Posted by: Vani
» RE: Sick as Ever!
Posted by: amy analog
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Posted by: Moonray on Jul 21, 2006 4:07 AM
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A good example: Hitler's Nazis, many of whom wore belt buckles emblazoned with "God Is With Us", "God Is On Our Side" and similar sentiments. Often overlooked is the fact that Hitler and other Nazi leaders were obsessed with Christian mysticism.
And now we also have extremist Muslims running amok.
Humanity could be entering its final years on this planet, mainly because we haven't learned to put religion behind us and function as rational beings.
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Posted by: marxalot on Jul 21, 2006 4:18 AM
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The Left Behind series is also available in a condensed young-adults version. It would be a major business blunder to leave the youth market unplundered I suppose. This game sounds exceedingly sicko though. Hope Christ can forgive us.
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» RE: LB for Young Adults
Posted by: jcutler9
» RE: LB for Young Adults
Posted by: Bab5nutz
» RE: LB for Young Adults
Posted by: usernamexyz
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Posted by: Tom Degan on Jul 21, 2006 4:24 AM
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Here's the line that Dubya conveniantly omitted:
And in despair I bowed my head
"There is no peace on earth", I said
For hate is strong
And mocks the song
Of Peace on earth, good will toward men....
Merry Christmas, everybody!
Pray for peace
Tom Degan
Goshen, NY
Tom Degan's Daily Rant
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» I was just thinkin'....
Posted by: Tom Degan
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Posted by: paulaH on Jul 21, 2006 4:38 AM
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This is just one more example of Christian hypocracy in the extreme. THOU SHALT NOT KILL!!!!....Unless, of course, you yell "Jesus" first. Then it's okay. Killing in the name of Jesus is fine. So, if Bundy had said, "The Lord is good," before murdering his victims and said, "I'm killing you in the name of Jesus," then his crimes would not have been crimes at all, but mere expressions of his love for his Lord Jesus Christ.
Great game, Mr and Mrs moral Christian. Very moral game. Kill, kill, kill, but only if you say you do it in Jesus' name. Let the bodies pile up...as long as they are what you consider your evil enemy. Face it, in the viewpoint of the other army, your christian army are the godless, evil ones.
Unless they rigged the game for the Antichrist army to always lose, a lot of those kids are going to be playing the Antichrist army and defeat the Christian army. These kids are damned good at these games. So is the game rigged? If so, what kind of game is that? What does that teach? Your religion is so flawed that the only way you can win a battle is to cheat? Do you think that is what will happen if the battle actually falls on your doorstep in reality? Will the Antichrist group lose because you've rigged the game?
Also, what does it say about a religion that has to go with the attitude of "if you can't beat them, join them"? Does this not show that religion does not have the Truth behind them? After all, if it's the Truth, it will stand on its own and many people will just be drawn to it. People aren't drawn to Christianity. They're shoved into it, either by being taken for brainwashing as children or by being scared into it as adults.
I could go on and on. I would like to end my tirade with this thought, though. Christians, this just proves our theory that the One True God of which the Christians speak is called money.
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» RE: Violence is okay as long as it's Christian violence
Posted by: Kym525
» Not actually rigged but...
Posted by: Swatopluk
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Posted by: Lizmv on Jul 21, 2006 4:42 AM
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Just read this list, then take a good look around you!
The signs and symptoms of psychosis include:
* loss of touch with reality
* delusions, or false beliefs
* illusions, or mistaken beliefs
* seeing, hearing, or perceiving things that are not there
* disorganized speech
* excitement
* confusion
* depression
* agitated and inattentive behavior
* Lack of awareness of mental change
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Posted by: yoursfaithfully on Jul 21, 2006 5:16 AM
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These fundamentalist Christian views are consistent: their god is the only god; their faith has enemies; violence against those enemies is sanctioned by god. Many Americans feel that way.
Some Christians can argue that these guys aren't *real* Christians because Jesus turned the other cheek, but do we really need a theological debate in this country about what makes a *real* Christian? I realize that this is the way some progressive movements are turning, but I am not sure it is the right way to go.
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» RE: Not surprising, but the video game isn't the problem
Posted by: HeroesAll
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Posted by: wawa on Jul 21, 2006 5:53 AM
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No Christian ever served in the army until Emperor Constantine realized that to unite his empire he should unite the church, which up until then was a diverse group with MANY different understandings of who Christ was and what he was about. St. Augustine was the first to corrupt the gospel when penned the "Just War Theory"
One topic in my soon to be published novel is explaining the cult of Christian Zionism. Last June Mordecahi Vanunu [the ex-con and Whistleblower of Israel's WMD Program]
and I walked up the Mount of Olives discussing the cults influence and that conversation -distilled through the fictional character Jack, became the following:
“When I was in rehab, I got hold of a very bad book. It was called Left Behind. What got left behind was the gospel of peace and love. These books are bad theology and poor literature. Did you know that in America there are Christians who actually want Armageddon? They believe they will escape the nuclear holocaust because they are now the new chosen ones. They think they will be raptured; they think they will be lifted out of the world. They believe a theology of escapism and they ignore that Christ promised that ‘The peacemakers shall be called the children of God’ and that Jesus is the Prince of Peace.”
Vanunu replied, “The time has come for the United States to see the truth of Zionism. It began as a secular nationalist movement, not a religious one. Then some Christians believed that when Israel became a nation, it was the beginning of the second coming. They are deluded if they believe peace will come through atomic weapons. Atomic weapons are holocaust weapons. Christians should be the first people against them. The Christians in America should be helping the Christians here. America needs to wake up to this fallacy that Jesus will come back by nuclear war. America needs to wake up to the fact that the Palestinian Christians here have no human rights. Aren’t Christians supposed to be concerned about other Christians? Aren’t Christians supposed to be concerned about all the poor and oppressed?”
Jack had become agitated. “It is non-negotiable: all of that stuff Jesus said about doing for the least and the oppressed. It is non-negotiable for Christians; we must forgive our enemies, and we must love those who hate us. Whatever we do or do not do, we do it unto God. Every time I went through a checkpoint, saw the wall, or heard a story of oppression, I wondered how God can stand this situation. I can’t.”
The following is Excerpted From
"Is this creep-show catastrophe biblical?"
by Elizabeth Palmberg
"In other words, the main problem with the Left Behind movies and books is not the biblical literalism they incorrectly lay claim to over and over. The real problem is that Left Behind is a big old plateload of neo-con neo-gnosticism designed to almost completely ignore some of the most clearly stated points of Revelation (and the gospels), in the pursuit of a particular, arguably idolatrous, present-day political mythology....But the Left Behind films are not about discerning the actual signs of the times; they’re about a extreme right-wing political script shaped over the last few decades...."
continues on July 21, 2006 WAWA blog
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Posted by: Reader11722 on Jul 21, 2006 6:26 AM
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Final link (before Google Books drops the title due to pressure):
http://www.iuniverse.com/bookstore
/book_detail.asp?&isbn=0-595-38523-0
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» America deceived
Posted by: BlueTigress
» RE: America deceived
Posted by: Vani
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Posted by: Riverside on Jul 21, 2006 7:16 AM
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Good Christians, good Islamic Muslims, good Jews, good other faiths who practice peace and compassion toward everyone are in grave peril. We will be overrun by these crazed warriors that have absolutely nothing to do with Armageddon, or Jesus, or God, or Allah. It is a rush for power that uses hacked religion as the theory and terror and warfare as the methodology for conquest and control.
From a religious standpoint the leaders of the real faiths need to step forward and declare these fake religious armies as heretics and a real threat to true religion. Politicallly, we the people need to make it clear we will not elect religious fanatics or tolerate one more soldier in one more war of theocratic opportunism.
Finally we must seriously ask ourselves, "how many nutcases does it take to destroy the world?" WE are not just talking about elections we are talking about saving humankind. Can we do it? Will we do it?
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» RE: Scared In Pennsylvania
Posted by: VannaLaRoche
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Posted by: mishtick on Jul 21, 2006 7:28 AM
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Posted by: jimhurt on Jul 21, 2006 7:52 AM
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Posted by: brunowe on Jul 21, 2006 8:42 AM
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» Thank You
Posted by: Joe Ox
» RE: NO Thank You
Posted by: texshelters
» Oh, it's just a video game - BS!!!!!
Posted by: Vani
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Posted by: Kym525 on Jul 21, 2006 8:45 AM
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Oh wait, I think I get it now. As long as you're killing 'non-Christians' (even CGI ones) in the name of God, that's okay. This is a game with a 'profound moral message'.
And I've got a bridge in Brooklyn I'm selling for dirt cheap.
Are any of us all that surprised that these sick people are planning to whore this crap out in megachurches and that they're going to market this game to kids?
Hey my fellow liberal/left Christians and even moderate evangelicals...what are we going to Do about this? It's time to clean the thieves out of the temple.
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» All you can do
Posted by: owleyes
» RE: All you can do
Posted by: Kym525
» RE: Gotta Love the Hypocrisy
Posted by: MatthewSavage
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Posted by: owleyes on Jul 21, 2006 9:08 AM
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Posted by: Raider on Jul 21, 2006 9:13 AM
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Posted by: ABetterFuture on Jul 21, 2006 9:19 AM
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Problem solved.
For the record (and as a casual computer gamer), there are plenty of video games that prominently feature killing, with characters such as Vampires (Bloodlines: TM), Middle Easterners (BF2), Asians (Mortal Kombat), Barbarians (Every adventure game ever made), Ghetto Pimps and Thieves (Grand Theft Auto), Scientists (Half-Life)...
etc...
etc...
There are games where you play god, steer civilizations, make war, trade, conquer galaxies...
If you don't like video games, then I suggest you go back to the boob tube and check out You Next American Idol. :) If it makes you sleep any better knowing what other people are or aren't doing in their free time, "religious themed" video games have historically all been flops. Young adults and middle-aged men (yup, those two groups are the target demographic) just aren't interested.
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» RE: Who cares?
Posted by: YogiBear
» Tough one...let's see...
Posted by: ABetterFuture
» RE: Who cares?
Posted by: Kym525
» Hypocrisy...
Posted by: ABetterFuture
» RE: Hypocrisy...
Posted by: Kym525
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Posted by: daniel1982 on Jul 21, 2006 9:25 AM
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» Did Ja Ever Notice
Posted by: Artkansas
» RE: Did Ja Ever Notice
Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: Did Ja Ever Notice
Posted by: daniel1982
» RE: Did Ja Ever Notice
Posted by: Artkansas
» RE: so what?
Posted by: Raider
» Well Said Raider
Posted by: Vani
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Posted by: The Southpaw on Jul 21, 2006 9:27 AM
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Finally, games are becoming more and more story-intensive. Enemies are fought for more than just "they're the bad guys". Anyone who has played Halo or Warcraft III or Prey knows exactly what I'm talking about. It's a mark of a good title that it can suck the player into a deep, multilayered and compelling story, and the Left Behind series doesn't exactly have that. You have the kill the enemy just because they are not you, a poor motivation considering the vivid plots in other RTSs.
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» RE: 10-to-1 this isn't going to work out
Posted by: MatthewSavage
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Posted by: Roverton on Jul 21, 2006 9:35 AM
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Monsters are being bred by this.
Right and Wrong are being erased from these childern's minds.
Digital Hitler Youths. Brown Shirts on line.
Christians, address this cancer within your own house or go down along with the rest of humanity, having served Christianity's WORST enemy of all time.
The original foe has gotten into the Church.
Only a coward would refuse to admit that now.
It's Satanic.
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Posted by: MatthewSavage on Jul 21, 2006 10:06 AM
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Many people also interpret this precept to include the mind; that is, don't expose yourself to violence and negative feelings that you don't have to (which is not to say don't turn away from violence and oppression when you can do something about it, but don't take delight in hunting or games of war). By that logic, this game would be poison. It is willful, freely chosen violence against pretend-people. To even spend time thinking about committing violence is activating the wrong parts of the mind.
Thik Nhat Han (sorry... can't remember how to spell his name) talks about everybody having the seeds of both good and evil in the mind, and as for which will grow best, well... which one are you going to water most? The seeds of evil and violence are grown by violent thoughts. This videogame certianly will aid in those violent thoughts.
Why the talk of Buddhism? Well, if you actually read abuot what Jesus said and did, it's pretty close to Buddhism. I do go to a Christian church and call myself Christian, but I'm just a few temple visits shy of calling myself Buddhist, too. And they both share a doctrine of non-violence.
The whole premise of this game seems to be based on a willful mis-interpretation and extrapolation from a few texts within the Bible that has nothing to do with Christ or his teachings.
All of that aside, is this a good game? That's what will determine if children will play it. The supposedly Christian theme of the game may get it sales (parents of teens may buy it for them), but kids won't play it unless they enjoy it, and they won't enjoy it unless it's a fun game to play. I somehow doubt that it is.
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Posted by: vibral on Jul 21, 2006 10:44 AM
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I grew up playing Grand Theft, and James Bond, and Doom, and all other manner of games... the "poison" is a also a dose/window into many people's chosen or unchosen reality, and especially many children of the world. Not that I'm promoting this game as any kind of documentary experience-- but I think that if people believe that children are going to be imprinted as murderers and rapists by one game, then you are people who have no respect or optimism for the future and I have no idea how you can wake up and even try.
Note that Tipper Gore and Hillary Clinton are some of the most outspoken video game critics-- not Christians. And frankly, I think it's all part of a symbiotic spin machine-- where Hillary and "Grand Theft" both get extra press for being seemingly controversial, but truly just distracting us yet again from other issues much more important for children.
Don't get me wrong-- as a New Yorker for six years (and yes I was 20 blocks away when the planes hit), and one who greatly fears threatening christians, threatening muslims, and threatening governments-- this game scares the shit out of me. But I'm so sick and tired of liberals making arguments in support of "reasonable" censorship-- and I think the fact that this topic invigorates us to the "action" of "blogging" shows that we too are merely respondents (as opposed to initiators) in the paradigm of a Violent Culture.
Any ideas for a Peace Initiative that doesn't involve being anti-?
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» RE: Let's Give Kids Some Credit
Posted by: vibral
» RE: Let's Give Kids Some Credit
Posted by: LauraK
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Posted by: hrhodes on Jul 21, 2006 10:48 AM
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Posted by: Raider on Jul 21, 2006 11:03 AM
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Posted by: headhunter on Jul 21, 2006 11:28 AM
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» RE: I laughed
Posted by: MatthewSavage
» The best quote on the game-to-real-life conversion...
Posted by: ABetterFuture
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Posted by: Ahimsa on Jul 21, 2006 11:31 AM
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How to criticize an ideology embraced by mindboggling amounts of people?
The seeds of these ideas are found in the Bible and other holy books. However, I cannot blame all christians, jews or bible followers.
I talk to friends about this, sometimes only to find myself being cast as the radical nut that is against anything religious, which I am not.
How to articulate a rhetoric based on humanism, non-violence and respect that is convincing to the "holy"?
In this times of innumerable messages and soundbytes, how to say something that has the strength of truth?
I suppose sane christians, jews and muslims (and please, hindus and buddhists, and...) need to come together more strongly....and soon! And form a front with humanistic agnostics towards the common goal of peace.
Any ideas? Geez, I feel utopian today...
Ahimsa Paramo Dharma
(No-Harm is the supreme duty)
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» RE: As a non-christian
Posted by: MatthewSavage
» RE: As a non-christian
Posted by: Ahimsa
» RE: As a non-christian
Posted by: mysanal
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Posted by: davidbdr on Jul 21, 2006 12:06 PM
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A game can't be designed to be successful. It doesn't work that way. If the little, brain-warped soldiers for Jesus want to play the game--let 'em. It won't be the first act of hypocrisy we've seen from the "Christian" Right Wing-Nuts. All I know is the Jesus I've read about in the New Testament and other sources would be appalled at how much hate and violence is waged in his name. Ever wonder who the wolves in sheep's clothing really are? That has never been hard to figure out.
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Posted by: deo508 on Jul 21, 2006 1:54 PM
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We need to be prepared for rapture - and for the shhh, say it softly, JEW, who may decide at the last moment not to accdept Jesus as his/her lord saviour. KILL for Jesus - Yay says our supreme leaders - the ones collecting millions of dollars of bloodlust. Ah, amen brother. Lets have a kill & prayer party tonight.
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Posted by: xbj on Jul 21, 2006 3:03 PM
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Hope the makers and designers spend Eternity living it for real, over and over. Not my idea; Rod Serling's.
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Posted by: just john on Jul 21, 2006 3:25 PM
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Anyway, THAT's why the number's on ambulances, as it is today.
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» RE: e: "911"
Posted by: nootau
» RE: e: "911 is NOT on top and not on sides in real life"
Posted by: nootau
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Posted by: supercrisp on Jul 21, 2006 3:59 PM
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Posted by: TerryS on Jul 21, 2006 7:47 PM
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Alternet is shinning a spotlight on this
horrible game.
That said, it really bothers me that the
attitude toward video games among
progressives seems to be:
Christians killing non-Christians - Bad, Bad, Bad !!
Thief killing cop, ho or bystander - whatever (it's not real!)
It's always fun to make fun of Christian
hypocrisy, but "why beholdest thou the mote that
is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the
beam that is in thine own eye?"
* * * *
And for those of you who believe in science:
"Violent video games can increase aggressive
behavior in children and adolescents, both in
the short- and long-term, according to an
empirical review of the last 20 years of research.
These findings are presented at the 113th Annual
Convention of the American Psychological Association
in Washington, DC."
http://www.apa.org/releases/violentvideoC05.html
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Posted by: paulaH on Jul 22, 2006 6:11 PM
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Posted by: Thorrific on Jul 23, 2006 1:07 PM
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Red Heifer, war profiteering, war contractors, Third Temple, Second Coming, Pentagon, Al-Aqsa Mosque, Jesus, animal sacrifice, Moses, Bible, Armageddon, Apocalypse, HILARIOUS!!!
Not safe for work, may offend whimpys.
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Posted by: goodgames on Jul 23, 2006 4:17 PM
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1. Yes, I hope that a Christian game, or Christian-themed game comes out that does well in the mainstream market. Why? Simple. We make Christian games (well, we have one for now, and are a year old). The problem is it is only sold in the Christian market, i.e. Bible book stores, etc. As a Christian (and it doesn't matter what "religion" of Christianity one is, though I prefer to be considered part of the Christian faith, and I'm Catholic), we're supposed to witness or make people aware of Christ, his teachings, peace, and so on. Christ did not hang out with the Pharisees and Rabbi's, He hung out with people who needed Him most: tax collectors, hookers..people who needed to know that God was their friend and loved them. Christ taught peace and love. Simple as that. Okay, so back to the subject of the game Left Behind, and what we (Covenant Studios) are doing. Currently, funding for Christian games is tough to get. We produce what we can with what little budgets we have. Then we come out with the games, and non-Christian reviewers say "The graphics aren't as good as Warcraft, the sound isn't as good as Doom..." etc. Investors see that and don't want to help, though we do have people working for us who are some of the most talented in the game and film industry. But we're limited in how much we can do when our budget is $60,000, versus $600,000 or $6 million. That's a basic fact.
So, how do we get reviewers to say nice things? Come out with a game that is AAA, appeals to a vast audience (we want to get EVERYONE to play our games), contains some sort of Christian theme without being preachy, but is a integral part of the story and game play (since that is our goal), have great game play and characters people can identify with, and make it for consoles.
That takes a lot of money.
We're hoping Journey of The Time Pilots will be that game. But if LB breaks down the "Christian games aren't that great" wall, then investors won't be so shy to invest in even better games. I don't like LB or the idea of the game, being able to kill anyone (Christians alike) who is not an evangelical, or Jews, or characters who want to be saved (which Christ did..). Why can't players be given the chance to save npc's?
Our goal is to make games that are extremely engaging, fun, and as non-violent as possible (because we're Christians). JOTTP is a WWII Time-Travel Epic, with lots of action, mystery, aerial dog fights, puzzle solving using biblical scripture, vehicles to drive, and NO killing. Period.
I think it will do very well personally, and a lot pf people, whether Christian or not, will want to play it, without having to resort to all the tricks of other RPG's, MMO's, RTS's, and so on.
Personally, I'm not too thrilled by LB. If it does well, then that helps us to get out a game I feel will be way better, on a lot of levels. I don't think killing is necessary, nor being able to choose between being on the side of God or the Devil (okay, Star Wars is an exception, with good and evil, because it's fictional fun, and shooting clone troopers is like someone mentioned earlier how aliens and Nazis make good targets), is necessary to get people to buy and play a game.
I wish our game came out first and was the one to break down the mainstream market walls.
But for now it's not. But who knows. Maybe LB will flop (one Sony exec seems to think it will). I hope it doesn't cause a backlash against all other Christian games. That would truly suck. And maybe, our game will be the one to make a really good difference.
Greg
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» RE: What I really think of Left Behind...
Posted by: Thorrific
» RE: What I really think of Left Behind...
Posted by: sarah1
» RE: What I really think of Left Behind...
Posted by: ChorusOfOne
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Posted by: sarah1 on Jul 24, 2006 11:42 AM
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» RE1: fundamentalist Christian
Posted by: Bilal Zaiter
» RE2: fundamentalist Christian
Posted by: Bilal Zaiter
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Posted by: timbrown on Jul 24, 2006 3:05 PM
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The first thing that saddens me is that someone representing the name of Christ would come out with a product like this.
Are these guys real Christians? I don't know. I DO know that not everyone who claims to be a Christian is one. Jesus Himself told us this in Matthew 7 when He said "Many will say to me Lord, Lord..." but he will cast them out of His presence because they weren't true converts.
The second thing that is tragic about this is that it teaches a false theology and of course a false application. As a conservative, Bible believing Christian, the idea of killing those who 'won't convert' is about as far from biblicism as one can get. We give the message and if its not received, we leave it with them and pray that a seed was planted and will oneday grow.
Did God tell the Hebrews to take the land from the Caananites and direct them to kill them? Yes. But God had already given them that land and the Caananites They were a people who refused to give up their false worship and God had passed judgement on them. But this kind of stuff has no basis in scripture. And those of us who know the Lord know this.
As this world spins down and the time of the end draws ever nearer, this will be on the increase. It will be junk like this that will contribute to an increasing stereotyping of biblical Christianity.
Is real Christianity being portrayed accurately? Of course not. But to many that doesn't matter. The only thing that matters to alot of people is that it shows them what they want to see. But this isn't the Christianity born of God's Spirit. And this really saddens me. In a day where it's politically correct to bash the Christian faith, the enemy of the human soul has provided a straw man to mislead those who choose to not see. And in accepting that lie, they refuse to see the truth.
What better way to lead people to hell than to get them chasing rabbits?
10 out of 10 people die. Do you consider yourself to be a good person?
http://www.needgod.com
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» RE: This saddens me...
Posted by: Bilal Zaiter
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Posted by: Thorrific on Jul 24, 2006 7:28 PM
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That's crazy talk too. If you believe that racist genocide nonsense, and if you actually think that you have just put forth a factual, rational, and rational argument, then what you believe is just as insane as that "Left Behind" crap.
Quit whining and wake up to reality. What you believe just isn't true.
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Posted by: sarah1 on Jul 24, 2006 7:59 PM
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Posted by: blogmommy on Jul 25, 2006 4:49 AM
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Posted by: autocraticforcefeed on Jul 26, 2006 8:32 AM
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Actually, there's a whole division of the Left Behind empire that translates the books as "Left Behind- For Kids." I used to work the customer service desk and Barnes and Noble and meet a lot of psychotic, bigoted parents who would be forcing their kids to read that instead of Harry Potter. I guess mass extermination is better than harnessing magical powers to enact great good.
P.S.- I might be kind of nuts, but as hateful and horrible as the game sounds, I feel like it might be kind of fun to play. I'm completely against the Hilary Clinton bullshit censorship wing of the democratic party. Violence is a cultural phenomenom (and btw, it's almost exclusively a male past-time). It's not caused by a single video game and restricting freedom of expression is not going to prevent anything, though it cause a lot of already disenfranchised teens to be turned off to politics. We need to create a society that reacts to violence- the real violence, not just simulated violence- with disdain and distrust (by, say calling for a cease-fire in Lebanon- or punishing U.N. member nations that participate in war crimes of said war crimes).
Besides, violent video games do their part by creating an alternative to a much more serious, much more violent, and much more culturally dangerous activity that is rarely discussed or criticized, but has a much more damaging effect on the youths who participate in it- Hunting. Why criticize someone for shooting cops who can shoot back at you in GTA when one of our most cherished sports (beloved by both 2004 presidential candidates) involves the hopeless slaughter of defenseless animals? Why harp on the fact that social outcasts who torture small animals grow up to be serial killers without also considering who socially celebrated youngsters kill animals with their dads and grow up to be military brats who engage in all manner of atrocities?
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» RE: Left Behind is for Kids
Posted by: TerryS
» RE: Left Behind is for Kids
Posted by: mysanal
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Posted by: dallooccio on Jul 28, 2006 7:39 PM
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violent video games are bad enough. but this 'The Left Behind: Eternal Forces' hits an all time dangerous low. what have we become?
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Posted by: dallooccio on Jul 28, 2006 7:53 PM
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it's just like Gandhi said-"I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ."
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Posted by: alifiz on Aug 11, 2006 2:12 PM
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And anyway, no one knows for sure about religion in any case. How do we know that what we believe is the truth? Is the truth for us the same as the truth for another?
I just love how people can be "open-minded" until they encounter someone who is strong in their beliefs, which differ from their own. Those people are fanatics.
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Posted by: mulac28 on Aug 30, 2006 8:49 PM
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Posted by: umo on Dec 18, 2006 4:11 AM
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Posted by: umo on Dec 21, 2006 9:58 AM
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