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Pentagon Reduced to Recruiting Neo-Nazis

By David Holthouse, SPLC Intelligence Report. Posted July 8, 2006.


Ten years after a scandal over neo-Nazis in the armed forces, extremists are once again worming their way into a recruit-starved military.

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Before the U.S. military made Matt Buschbacher a Navy SEAL, he made himself a soldier of the Fourth Reich.

Before Forrest Fogarty attended Military Police counter-insurgency training school, he attended Nazi skinhead festivals as lead singer for the hate rock band Attack.

And before Army engineer Jon Fain joined the invasion of Iraq to fight the War on Terror, the neo-Nazi National Alliance member fantasized about fighting a war on Jews.

"Ever since my youth -- when I watched WWII footage and saw how well-disciplined and sharply dressed the German forces were -- I have wanted to be a soldier," Fain said in a Winter 2004 interview with the National Alliance magazine Resistance. "Joining the American military was as close as I could get."

Ten years after Pentagon leaders toughened policies on extremist activities by active duty personnel -- a move that came in the wake of the Oklahoma City bombing by decorated Gulf War combat veteran Timothy McVeigh and the murder of a black couple by members of a skinhead gang in the elite 82nd Airborne Division -- large numbers of neo-Nazis and skinhead extremists continue to infiltrate the ranks of the world's best-trained, best-equipped fighting force. Military recruiters and base commanders, under intense pressure from the war in Iraq to fill the ranks, often look the other way.

Neo-Nazis "stretch across all branches of service, they are linking up across the branches once they're inside, and they are hard-core," Department of Defense gang detective Scott Barfield said. "We've got Aryan Nations graffiti in Baghdad," he added. "That's a problem."

The armed forces are supposed to be a model of racial equality. American soldiers are supposed to be defenders of democracy. Neo-Nazis represent the opposite of these ideals. They dream of race war and revolution, and their motivations for enlisting are often quite different than serving their country.

"Join only for the training, and to better defend yourself, our people, and our culture," Fain said. "We must have people to open doors from the inside when the time comes."

Soldier shortage

In 1996, following a decade-long rash of cases where extremists in the military were caught diverting huge arsenals of stolen firearms and explosives to neo-Nazi and white supremacist organizations, conducting guerilla training for paramilitary racist militias, and murdering non-white civilians (see timeline), the Pentagon finally launched a massive investigation and crackdown. One general ordered all 19,000 soldiers at Fort Lewis, Wash., strip-searched for extremist tattoos.

But that was peacetime. Now, with the country at war in Iraq and Afghanistan, and the military under increasingly intense pressure to maintain enlistment numbers, weeding out extremists is less of a priority. "Recruiters are knowingly allowing neo-Nazis and white supremacists to join the armed forces, and commanders don't remove them from the military even after we positively identify them as extremists or gang members," said Department of Defense investigator Barfield.

"Last year, for the first time, they didn't make their recruiting goals. They don't want to start making a big deal again about neo-Nazis in the military, because then parents who are already worried about their kids signing up and dying in Iraq are going to be even more reluctant about their kids enlisting if they feel they'll be exposed to gangs and white supremacists."

Barfield, who is based at Fort Lewis, said he has identified and submitted evidence on 320 extremists there in the past year. "Only two have been discharged," he said. Barfield and other Department of Defense investigators said they recently uncovered an online network of 57 neo-Nazis who are active duty Army and Marines personnel spread across five military installations in five states -- Fort Lewis; Fort Bragg, N.C.; Fort Hood, Texas; Fort Stewart, Ga.; and Camp Pendleton, Calif. "They're communicating with each other about weapons, about recruiting, about keeping their identities secret, about organizing within the military," Barfield said. "Several of these individuals have since been deployed to combat missions in Iraq."

Every year, the Army's Criminal Investigation Division conducts a threat assessment of extremist and gang activity among army personnel. "Every year, they come back with 'minimal activity,' which is inaccurate," said Barfield. "It's not epidemic, but there's plenty of evidence we're talking numbers well into the thousands, just in the Army." Last July, the white supremacist website Stormfront hosted a discussion on "Joining the Military."

"There are others among you in the forces," wrote one neo-Nazi in the Army. "You are never alone."

Nazi SEAL

Not all military commanders fail to give known extremists the boot. "The response differs from command group to command group," Barfield said. "Most put up a front and say, 'Oh, this guy's in big trouble,' but actually do nothing unless he commits a felony. But some kick their ass out right away."

Barfield noted that commanders are far more likely to take immediate action if the soldier is stateside in a non-combat role, rather than fighting overseas. In one recent instance, Airman First Class Andrew Dornan, who was assigned to the firing party in the U.S. Air Force Honor Guard, was sentenced to nine months confinement and dishonorably discharged after he posted messages glorifying Adolf Hitler on his personal webpage and threatened to detonate a bomb on a military base.

But the military took no such action against former Navy SEAL Matt Buschbacher, who continued to fight in Iraq after the Southern Poverty Law Center had alerted officials to his active support of neo-Nazi groups.

Buschbacher said he joined the neo-Nazi movement "for the same reason everyone joins: I was angry and looking for some answers. I wanted to belong to something that made me feel good about myself."

In 1998, when Buschbacher was still a teenager living in Terrace Park, Ohio, a wealthy, almost exclusively white suburb of Cincinnati, he was ordained as a reverend in the World Church of the Creator, a violent neo-Nazi organization. He rose fast. In 1999, he was the head of the hate group's Cincinnati chapter when Chicago member Benjamin Smith went on a three-day, two-state shooting spree that targeted Jews, Asians and blacks. Smith killed two people and wounded nine before committing suicide as police closed in.

Afterward, Buschbacher praised Smith as "a dedicated activist for our racial cause" in The Cincinnati Inquirer. "We have pride in our race, heritage, and culture, and we will do anything to prevent it from being destroyed," he said. "White man is the creator, the creator of civilizations."

In May 2000, Buschbacher attended Nordic Fest, an annual skinhead festival sponsored by the Imperial Klans of America in Kentucky, where he posed in front of a flaming swastika, seig heiling. He joined the Navy shortly afterward. Again, Buschbacher advanced quickly. In October 2001, he completed 26 weeks of SEAL training at the Naval Special Warfare Center in Coronado, Calif.

In August 2002, while an active duty SEAL but not yet stationed in Baghdad, Buschbacher attended the National Alliance's invitation-only "leadership conference" at the neo-Nazi group's West Virginia compound. The conference was held just weeks after the death of National Alliance founder William Pierce, author of The Turner Diaries, the fantasy novel about revolution and race war that inspired Oklahoma City bomber Timothy McVeigh. Pierce also wrote the seminal pamphlet, "What is the National Alliance?" It was in that tract that Pierce explained that a National Alliance member in the military "[u]ses his daily interactions with career personnel to select exceptional individuals who are receptive, and he then gives them the opportunity to serve their race while carrying out their military functions."

'Heroes among us'

Today, Matt Buschbacher denies recruiting Navy personnel into the Alliance. What's clear is that for years after becoming a SEAL, he violated military regulations without repercussions by staying active in the neo-Nazi movement.

Using the online pseudonym "Mattiasb88" [88 is neo-Nazi code for "Heil Hitler"] to hide his identity, Buschbacher designed and distributed National Alliance fliers, white power screen savers, and a photo montage of Pierce on the Internet via his website, racialpride.com, which displayed a logo of a burning swastika and this mission statement: "The purpose of this website is to provide white patriots with a large database of information for recruiting and self-improvement." Buschbacher also posted messages to the white supremacist website Stormfront and the website of Resistance Records, a hate rock music company owned by the National Alliance. In the fall of 2003, the National Alliance magazine Resistance even published a collage of "Scene Shots" that included a small photo of Buschbacher wearing a Turner Diaries T-shirt and giving a Nazi salute.

Buschbacher hasn't been the only neo-Nazi to fight in Iraq. Forrest Mackley Fogarty, a member of the Tampa, Fla., unit of the National Alliance, was deployed for 18 months during Operation Iraqi Freedom with his Army National Guard unit. "There are some dirty Arabs enjoying their 70 virgins because of my actions and that of my fire team," Fogarty boasted in the Winter 2005 issue of Resistance. (Fogarty was identified in the article only as "Forrest of Attack.")

Jon Fain, a neo-Nazi who currently lives on the National Alliance compound, was part of the original Iraq invasion force in 2003, as a U.S. Army engineer. Shawn Stuart, the Montana state leader of the National Socialist Movement, another neo-Nazi group, served two combat tours in Iraq as a U.S. Marine before he was discharged in 2005. Stuart, who is running for the state House of Representatives in Montana, told the Missoula News that he joined the NSM in 2004, while he was still a Marine, because he "came to believe the United States is fighting the war on Israel's behalf."

None of these men, it appears, were ever disciplined for neo-Nazi activities. All were honorably discharged.

James Douglas Ross Jr. was not so fortunate. Ross, a military intelligence officer stationed at Fort Bragg, was caught shipping disassembled AK-47s to the United States from Iraq in 2004, officials said. When investigators searched his off base housing, they found a weapons arsenal, thousands of rounds of ammunition, and hate group materials. Ross was forced to return from Iraq and given a bad conduct discharge. "But they let him keep the weapons [he kept in his house]," said Department of Defense investigator Barfield, adding that Ross has since relocated to Washington, where he's a leader of the Eastern Washington Skins, a neo-Nazi gang. "He kept his military connections, and he's still trying to recruit soldiers, so we're still dealing with him."

For his part, despite his sometimes brazen activities, Matt Buschbacher tried hard to avoid exposure as a neo-Nazi in the military. But his identity became clear after he posted a photo of himself in a "Mattiasb88" Yahoo profile in 2004, and then advertised his neo-Nazi E-mail address in a July 2004 posting to a currency trading forum. "I am in the military and currently in Iraq," he wrote there. "If anyone would like to purchase some Iraqi dinars I have access to as much as you would like." That September, Buschbacher was profiled in his hometown Terrace Park community newspaper, Village Views. The article, "Heroes Among Us," reported he was fighting terrorism with a SEAL unit based in downtown Baghdad.

Two years later, Matt Buschbacher is back from Iraq -- also with an honorable discharge, despite the fact that the Southern Poverty Law Center informed the military of his background while he was still on active duty. He lives in Denver, Colo., and teaches classes on how to pick up women. "I have no connection with any neo-Nazi anything any more," Buschbacher said. Photographed holding a red rose, he was recently splashed across the cover of a weekly newsmagazine in Denver promoting his new book, Date the Women of Your Dreams. The cover story made no mention of his neo-Nazi past.

Training for race war

According to a 1998 study commissioned by the Department of Defense, "Young civilian extremists are encouraged by adult leaders to enlist in the military to gain access to weapons, training, and other military personnel."

The reasons are obvious: Soldiers are trained to be proficient with weapons, combat tactics, and explosives, to train others in their use, and to operate in a highly disciplined culture that is focused on the organized violence of war. This is why military extremists present an elevated threat to public safety, and why extremists groups both recruit active duty personnel -- especially those with access to classified information or sophisticated weaponry -- and influence their members to join the armed forces.

"The threats posed by extremism to the military are simultaneously blatant and subtle," the Defense Department study said. "On the one hand, high-profile terrorist acts and hate crimes committed by active and former military personnel can have seriously detrimental effects on the civil-military relationship as well as on the morale and security of military personnel. On the other hand, even the non-violent activities of military personnel with extremist tendencies (e.g., possessing literature and/or artifacts from the extremist 'movement'; dabbling in extremism through computerized telecommunications activities; proselytizing extremist ideologies, etc.) can have deleterious consequences for the good order, discipline, readiness, and cohesion of military units."

Special Forces soldiers who double as extremist operatives present a special danger, since they have commando skills gained at huge taxpayer expense -- often including urban warfare, long-range reconnaissance, and combat demolitions.

"Hate groups send their guys into the U.S. military because the U.S. military has the best weapons and training," said T.J. Leyden, a former racist skinhead and Marine who recruited inside the Marine Corps for the Hammerskins, a nationwide skinhead gang. He later renounced the neo-Nazi movement and now conducts anti-extremism training seminars on military bases.

"Right now, any white supremacist in Iraq is getting live fire, guerilla warfare experience," Leyden said. "But any white supremacist in Iraq who's a Green Beret or a Navy SEAL or Marine Recon, he's doing covert stuff that's far above and beyond convoy protection and roadblocks. And if he comes back and decides at some point down the road that it's race war time, all that training and combat experience he's received could easily turn around and bite this country in the ass."

Department of Defense investigator Barfield confirmed that threat assessment. "Today's white supremacists in the military become tomorrow's domestic terrorists once they're out," he said. "There needs to be a tighter focus on intercepting the next Timothy McVeigh before he becomes the next Timothy McVeigh."

'White soldier's burden'

In April 1995, the same month Timothy McVeigh detonated a 7,000-pound truck bomb outside a federal building in Oklahoma City, killing 168 people, the National Alliance erected a billboard on the main road leading into Fort Bragg, an Army base in Fayetteville, N.C. The billboard's message read, "Enough! Let's Start Taking Back America," and listed the neo-Nazi group's toll-free number.

The billboard was the work of Robert Hunt, a National Alliance recruiter and active duty member of the Army's elite 82nd Airborne Division, which is based at Fort Bragg. By late 1995, a large neo-Nazi skinhead gang had formed within the 82nd Airborne. Members saluted a Nazi flag in their barracks, distributed National Alliance literature on base, and held drunken barracks parties where they blasted "Third Reich," a rockabilly white power anthem by the band Rahowa (short for "Racial Holy War") with lyrics about killing blacks and Jews.

In December 1995, two members of the 82nd Airborne skinhead gang gunned down a black couple in a random, racially motivated double murder that shocked the nation and sparked a major investigation of extremism in the military as well as congressional hearings. The killers were eventually sentenced to life in prison, and 19 other members of the 82nd Airborne were dishonorably discharged for neo-Nazi gang activities.

"The fallout from the skinhead killings was immediate," racist skinhead Steve Smith recalled in his 2005 essay, "The White Soldier's Burden." Smith was in the Army from 1991 to 1996 and was stationed at Fort Bragg at the time of the murders. "White soldiers at Fort Bragg were inspected to see if they had any 'racist' tattoos. The Army also held mandatory classes on 'extremist' organizations."

Before the Fort Bragg slayings, military regulations on extremist activity by active duty soldiers were ambiguous. There were no specific regulations on extremism at all until 1986, when it came to light that active duty soldiers were providing guerilla training and stolen military weapons to a paramilitary Ku Klux Klan faction led by a former Green Beret. The Southern Poverty Law Center then urged Secretary of Defense Casper Weinberger to "prohibit active-duty members of the armed services from holding membership in groups like the Klan or from taking part in their activities." Weinberger responded by issuing this directive: "Military personnel must reject participation in white supremacy, neo-Nazi and other such groups which espouse or attempt to create overt discrimination. Active participation, including public demonstrations, recruiting and training members, and organizing or leading such organizations is utterly incompatible with military service."

Though sternly worded, many commanders interpreted that order to mean that while active participation in extremist groups was prohibited, so-called "passive support," such as distributing propaganda, listening to hate rock, displaying flags or symbols, and "mere membership," were still allowed. After the Fort Bragg slayings, however, the Department of Defense toughened military policy somewhat to read, "Engaging in activities in relation to [extremist] organizations, or in furtherance of the objectives of such organizations that are viewed by command to be detrimental to the good order of the unit is incompatible with Military Service, and is, therefore, prohibited."

Then-Defense Secretary William Perry used even stronger language to describe the intent of the updated regulation. "Department of Defense policy leaves no room for racist and extremist activities in the military," Perry stated. "We must -- and we shall -- make every effort to erase bigotry, racism, and extremism from the military. Extremist activity compromises fairness, good order, and discipline. The armed forces, which defend the nation and its values, must exemplify those values beyond question."

Lowering standards

Neo-Nazis have no respect for the values of a free democracy or the shining example of equal opportunity its military is meant to be. When Jon Fain, the Army engineer, was interviewed in 2004 for a Resistance article titled, "On the Front Lines for the Jews," he advised neo-Nazis considering a military career to "[n]ever allow yourself to be brainwashed into the 'everybody's green' lie." In the Stormfront discussion on joining the military, neo-Nazi "Ulfur Engil" wrote that he was stationed with the Army in Europe and offered this guidance: "Nothing will change what you are. If you join, you are still the same enlightened white man (or woman) you always have been."

Hundreds of neo-Nazis online identify themselves as active duty soldiers. "When you are in, after you finish basic training, your discretion is very important," Ulfur Engil wrote in a recent Internet posting. "If you are someone who wears boots and braces keep a second pair that's neutral looking (black). Remove any obvious pins from your jacket (runes by themselves are okay, though. They don't take issue with them, providing there is no obvious [racist] arrangement. The USO in Keflavik, Iceland, actually sold runes!) Do NOT use any Internet connection offered by the base or do ANYTHING on a military server. NOTHING. Get an Internet connection that is private and off-base, invest in EvidenceEliminator, and set up an email account with Hushmail and/or Ziplip."

Extremists in the military are tricky to unmask. "They're a lot smarter about it than street gang members," said Barfield. "They don't brag and boast like gang bangers." The best way to reduce the number of extremists in the armed forces is to prevent them from entering the military in the first place. "But now we're lowering our recruiting standards. We're accepting lesser quality soldiers," Barfield said. In a move to boost enlistment, the military is allowing more and more recruits with criminal records to sign up. A recent Chicago Sun-Times article revealed the percentage of recruits granted "moral waivers" for past misdemeanors had more than doubled since 2001. The military also revised its rules on inductee tattoos earlier this year to allow all tattoos except those on the front of the face. Both changes in the rules made it easier for extremists to join. And while military regulations prohibit (PDF) all gang-related or white supremacist tattoos, many recruiters are ignoring such tattoos, or even literally covering them up. "I had one case where a recruiter and his wife took a guy to their house and covered up his tattoos with make-up so he could pass his [physical examination]," Barfield said.

Military regulations also call for any superior officer who spots a soldier with a neo-Nazi or white supremacist tattoo to refer the soldier to a commander, who then is supposed to demand the soldier have the tattoo removed. If the soldier refuses, he's supposed to be kicked out.

"But there's a loophole," Barfield said. "If they never refer them, they can't refuse, so they just never refer them, and they stay in."

"If you have any kind of tattoo prior to going in, they will require you to write out a statement as to what it is, and what it means to you," advised a neo-Nazi in the Stormfront military forum. "If it's something obvious like a swazi [swastika], then they will probably say, 'No go.' But, something more obscure, like a Schwarze Sonne [a "black sun," another Nazi symbol] or a Celtic cross would probably be okay, so long as no phraseology accompanies it."

"The average Joe recruiter can spot the most obvious tattoos," said Leyden, who trains the military in identifying hate group members. "But the vast majority of them don't know what 'White Power' in German looks like, they don't know what 88 in Roman numerals means, and now, they may not even care, because they're under this extreme pressure to fill the void, and who are they filling the void with? Therein lies the danger."

'Switchblades and smeared blood'

The large tattoo on the right arm of Air Force airman Robert Lee West depicts a menacing wizard with a scythe. His recruiter probably saw no problem there, but the photo of himself West has up on his EveryonesSpace web page should wave a red flag. In it, West, with his head shaved, is standing in front of a swastika and Iron Eagle banner, holding twin AR-15 assault rifles. West, 23, who's stationed at Warner Robins Air Force Base in Georgia, lists his general interests as "switchblades and smeared blood."

In his "About Me" section, he writes: "I train most days for marksmanship, combat, demolition, politics, economics, religion, military tactics, oratory, and propaganda. I will give my life for a cause greater than my own. My mind and spirit shall ensure life for my people, and death for yours. I shall fight until I have achieved victory. Just remember when you speak to me that I don't play by ZOG [Zionist Occupation Government] rules and I will not hesitate to sever your subclavian artery."

Special Agent Will Manuel of Air Force's Office of Special Investigations at Warner Robins said he's "well aware" of West's neo-Nazi identity. "We've seen all his pictures, we've read his website, and we know what's he doing." Yet despite the toughened policy declared by the Pentagon a decade ago, Manuel says, "We're not going to go after him just based on what he says he believes, or on him making a lot of claims. There has to be an overt act first. He has to actually organize or recruit or commit a crime. But even his pictures and writings raise concerns, obviously, because we know that where you have one [neo-Nazi], there's usually another, and what he claims to represent totally goes against the core values of the military."

Ten years after the military crackdown on extremism, it's clear that there are still a great many Robert Lee Wests in the U.S. armed forces. And that should worry all Americans. In 1996, the Ft. Bragg murders sparked Congressional hearings on extremism in the military. Then-Air Force Secretary Sheila E. Windall said in her testimony, "We have an absolute obligation, and the American people have an absolute right to expect, that military members will use their expertise and the lethal tools of their trade to protect them and never to harm them."

But some in the military appear to have lost sight of that obligation in the fog of war. "The regulations could use some fine tuning, but they're already on the books," Barfield said. "They're just not being enforced. My fear is that it's going to take another Fort Bragg before that changes."

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See more stories tagged with: pentagon, recruitment, nazi

Anthony Griggs, Joseph Roy Sr., and Laurie Wood contributed to this report.

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Left Lies Again
Posted by: knocko on Jul 8, 2006 12:51 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Obviously the armed forces do not recruit aryan brothrhood or nazi groups. The left is desparate. It will do anything to prevent the victory of Western civilization over muslim savages.

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» RE: Left Lies Again Posted by: akwash79
» RE: Left Lies Again Posted by: bg41
» Troll Dribbles Again Posted by: particle
» RE: Left Lies Again Posted by: rexvisigothis
» Knocko Lies Again Posted by: Knowmad
» RE: Left Lies Again Posted by: droscify
» RE: Left Lies Again Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Left Lies Again Posted by: bg41
» RE: Left Lies Again Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Left Lies Again Posted by: bg41
» RE: Left Lies Again Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Left Lies Again Posted by: Pickles78
» RE: Left Lies Again Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: Left Lies Again Posted by: Pickles78
» At Least the LEFT debates Posted by: CatDad
» RE: At Least the LEFT debates Posted by: Conservasaurus
» Censorship on Alternet? Posted by: CatDad
» RE: Censorship on Alternet? Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Left Lies Again Posted by: mystic13
» Hold That Thought Posted by: knocko
» RE: Left Lies Again Posted by: Vietnam Vet
» RE: Left Lies Again Posted by: Ski
» RE: Left Lies Again Posted by: aussidawg
» Knocko Socko Robot. Posted by: aussidawg
» Addendum... Posted by: aussidawg
Goodbye apolitical military, hello right-wing death squads
Posted by: wli on Jul 8, 2006 4:25 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Rest assured Republicans thoroughly approve of this development. Also, take one look at William G. Boykin and just try to tell me this doesn't go all the way to the top with a straight face.

The right wing has been doing this for a very long time, and they own the military, which is why so many recruiters and commanders look the other way. So if you think for a second the military won't jump at the chance to gun down "godless communists" like us en masse, you're very, very sadly mistaken. For that matter, you should have long-since noticed the red squads running amok and COINTELPRO machinations out the wazoo. Why spy on "dirty hippies" as if they were security threats? Because the neo-Nazis want to go after them, that's why. Also, much the same thing has been going on with the police.

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» VOTING??!! Posted by: gltirebiter
» Tell that to Bush. Posted by: JoshuaLudd
» OK. I have. Posted by: knocko
» Knockin' on Knocko's door Posted by: famouspipeliner
» It Ain't Me Babe Posted by: knocko
When you've met one fascist, you've met them all. Who needs enemies with friends like those?
Posted by: Sojourner on Jul 8, 2006 6:46 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Most frightening is that the road forward will be even more difficult than it is at present. Taking pride in something that you cannot do anything about, because it's just the way you were born, is for weaklings. Yes, that means that violence in the name of skin color is evidence of weakness.

It is absolutely essential that the military be held accountable. Soldiering is a difficult job when done well. Otherwise it's just an excuse for sadism.

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» Eisenhower - A Republican Posted by: Lincoln fan
White power
Posted by: butthead on Jul 8, 2006 8:46 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
WHITE POWER!

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» RE: White power Posted by: famouspipeliner
» RE: White power Posted by: Sojourner
» RE: White power Posted by: MJ Fields
» RE: White power Posted by: aussidawg
» RE: White power Posted by: Knowmad
» RE: White power (encore) Posted by: Knowmad
» RE: White power Posted by: adp3d
» RE: White power Posted by: Ratskii
A novel you might find interesting
Posted by: HeroesAll on Jul 9, 2006 3:39 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I know everyone's always citing The Handmaid's Tale, and yes, that's a magnificent book and all, and Margaret Atwood is a superb writer.

But there's a fine writer called Sheri S Tepper who's written a bunch of sci-fi novels that make some salient points (if you read enough of them you'll see a strong pattern). The one that mostly deals with white supremacist hate society is called Raising The Stones, and it's damn fine. I recommend reading it, and then maybe some of her others. Not as great a writer as Atwood, but definitely passionate, imaginative, and rivetting.

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Persecuted for their beliefs?
Posted by: YogiBear on Jul 9, 2006 7:55 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I find these guys as distastful as anyone else, but do I hear folks correctly in wanting to persecute them for their beleifs? If we exclude many of these men from joining the military, do we also refuse former gang members? What about people affiliated with anti-global trade organizations, or anti-war organizations under suspicion by the government.

I think we ought to only exlude people based on the content of their observable character and by their words and actions as soldiers. Certainly, while the military might be a place hatemongers see as a way to get training to act out their psychotics, might others not also see it as a way to get out of a bad place and into a better one? Don't we laud ex-Crips for pursuing a better life through the military? Might not some, or even many, of these men end up the better for their experience?

Perhaps not, but I cringe at seeing the left call for mass typing based on people's beliefs and social activities.

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» Tookie Wookey, Would He? Posted by: knocko
» Big Brother works both ways Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: Big Brother works both ways Posted by: HeroesAll
yeah so what--- they also let in christians
Posted by: Juven on Jul 9, 2006 7:56 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This stinks of the same mentality that prevents revisionism from getting a fair shake... i thought that in the US you were free to believe what you wanted--- The christians and thier little black book have cause more death and destruction than Nazis ever did and yet no one seems to remember that--- remmeber the conquest of Mexico? largest genocide in history--- remember the inquistion? So if someones political beliefs dont match up we need to forbid them from existing or what? I guess that would be the christian way...

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» good point Posted by: Jnutter
» Nazis were christians Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: Nazis were christians Posted by: Juven
"Pentagon recruiting white supremacists"
Posted by: owleyes on Jul 9, 2006 9:29 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This article was somewhat interesting. I kept looking for the part where the Pentagon was reduced to recruiting white supremacists, as advertised by the title of the article. I never found it.

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Latino Kings are Politically Correct Soldiers?
Posted by: knocko on Jul 9, 2006 9:34 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There are a lot more Latino thugs and gang members in the military including in Iraq than so-called Nazis.

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» RE: Knockup the Brave Posted by: Knowmad
» RE: Knocko the Nazi Posted by: Ghoulman
» Proof? Numbers? Posted by: JoshuaLudd
Not Funny.
Posted by: Jnutter on Jul 9, 2006 1:15 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Fascism isn't funny. Let's forget about pointing fingers at figures from the past... because just about everyone has a little dirt on their faces when it comes to dealing with fascists pre-WWII. The friggin KKK was once allowed to march in plain sight 40,000 strong down pennsylvania avenue for cripes' sake.

What is important is to remember just how insanely dangerous these fascists are and to remember that as far as they are concerned the fight never ended. Recruiting them into the military and giving them free training? That's not funny. That's suicidally stupid.

The US military must be in really really really bad shape. I fear for us all.

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» RE: Not Funny. Posted by: hiryuu75
» RE: Not Funny. Posted by: peridot
MArginalize!
Posted by: kittynboi on Jul 9, 2006 3:01 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I've long been an advocate for marginalizing right wing racists and neo nazis and criminalizing their beliefs.

but few people seem to like that idea.

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» RE: MArginalize! Posted by: Juven
» RE: MArginalize! Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: MArginalize! Posted by: knocko
Neonazis inthe military
Posted by: steve_daly on Jul 9, 2006 4:54 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And Boykin selecting for dominionist Christians as he runs the Special Forces traininig camp, NSA monitoring domestic e mails and phone calls, and Repub.s keep ahold of congress in November. We all tumble down the worm hole together with the neo cons. Sooner or later they will come for me and for each of us. And I'll be playing "Twilight Zone" by Golden Earing:

"...Now I'm stepping into the twilight zone,
This is a madhouse feels like being alone.
My feet can't stand through by the moon and stars,
Where am I to go now that I've gone to far?
You will come to know when the bullet hits the bone."

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ON-GOING TROLL ALERT; IGNORE AND CONQUER
Posted by: sirossisofliver on Jul 9, 2006 9:15 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As you all may be aware, there has been an influx of Morlocks to our site, of late.

With every new Alternet Blog discussion, watch out for the following Neo-Con WingNut Infiltrators:

knocko
rightwing1
NC3
RWcowboy
Phenix
Suoercrisp
zvirgil2
resistance6
conservasaurus

PLEASE refrain from responding to thier agenda-driven, NeoCon Drivel in order to prevent them from high-jacking the threads.

IGNORING THESE ACEREBRAL IDIOTS ALLOWS US TO CARRY ON WITH OUR REASONED DISCUSSIONS.

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» Support Troll Rights! Posted by: knocko
» Troll Patrol Posted by: particle
» RE: Troll Patrol Posted by: YogiBear
» Uber Troll Posted by: knocko
» What would HG Wells say? Posted by: Burton
Are they really nazis? Or maybe just defending our race
Posted by: Bobsays on Jul 10, 2006 1:47 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If they were black, you would have written an article about how great black power in the armed forces was. These guys are there, in the the multiculural society we live in, to defend white people. See them more like the NAACP than Hitler's praetorian guard.

These are menacing times we live in. We can't look to government for defence because government doesn't see itself as a provider of security, but instead an arbitrator of disputes and a provider of benefits to various competing groups. Since the state has abrogated its duty to provide security, favouring community placating, then individual communities must take the security issue into their own hands.

We can only imagine what horrible things that would happen if islamic fundamentalists actually prevailed in a western country (and there are countries where they have a chance).

This isn't disturbing but more an awakening of race consciousness akin to what we have seen in the past with black, native american and Jewish people. It is healthy and just ike with those groups, people will become more proud of what things they can bring to the multicultural dinner table/Darwinian struggle.

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» My race is human too. Posted by: Jnutter
» Yes, they really are nazis. Posted by: particle
They should ask ex-KKK recruiter Democrat Sen. Roberty Byrd for help.
Posted by: jonwilson on Jul 10, 2006 2:09 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If they want to recruit racists, they should ask Democrat Senator Roberty Byrd for help. By his own admission he used to be a recruited for the KKK. He was so good they made him a Grand Kleagle.

The ex-Klansman allegedly ended his ties with the group in 1943. He may have stopped paying dues, but he continued to pay homage to the KKK. Republicans in West Virginia discovered a letter Sen. Byrd had written to the Imperial Wizard of the KKK three years after he says he abandoned the group. He wrote: "The Klan is needed today as never before and I am anxious to see its rebirth here in West Virginia" and "in every state in the Union."

The ex-Klansman vowed never to fight "with a Negro by my side. Rather I should die a thousand times, and see Old Glory trampled in the dirt never to rise again, than to see this beloved land of ours become degraded by race mongrels, a throwback to the blackest specimen from the wilds."

Nothing like the thrill of gathering 'round a midnight bonfire, roasting s'mores, tying nooses, and promoting white supremacy with a bunch of your hooded friends.

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» Great Point Posted by: YogiBear
just what we need
Posted by: rsaxto on Jul 10, 2006 4:37 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Isn't it just what we need to burnish the USA image as mass murderers - Nazis as USA soldiers? Since the Bushies have no shame, this is the last nail that can be driven into their political coffins.

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» RE: just what we need Posted by: peridot
where are the jews
Posted by: tjspan on Jul 10, 2006 5:04 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Some 6,000,000 jews live in this Gentile nation and they, as members of aipac & neoconservative leaders, zionists and mainstream media contributors, planned and directed the destruction waged by American Gentiles in the Middle East.

Why aren't their enlistments, casualties and deaths commensurate with their numbers? Why don't they respond to their nation's call for military service? Where are the Jews?

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» RE: where are the jews Posted by: YogiBear
» oh, pur-leeze Posted by: HeroesAll
US Nazis NAMED, Court appearances LISTED, incl. Chief Justice Roberts
Posted by: Meremark on Jul 10, 2006 7:29 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
--

The United States NAZIs of Present Dunce, and before, of Geo. Hitler Worker Bush administrations, are real Nazis with no allegiance to the laws of the U.S., and they appear in court charged with crimes from time to time.

Must read the Special Report of intelligence information supplied to Madsen, dated July 7/8,
at daily Wayne Madsen Report.


For example, July 24 is a court date coming up with NAZIs works and activities in the court docket, per Madsen.

He also cites INsider-Magazine for reports.

The NAZIs of Hitler's 1930s and murdering of Jews is not today's topics and activity.

U.S. NAZIs are of G.H.W.Bush's followers, including his brain-damaged son, and racist supremacist friends and associates.

Read today's on-going legal actions and we each can get going on our own.

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I can't think of anything MORE appropriate for this military and government
Posted by: xbj on Jul 10, 2006 7:30 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Let's face facts, the Adminstration is Nazi, the legislative branch is comprised of One Party elected by Diebold and ES&S and a fake "opposition" party quaking in their boots and serving at the whim of the ruling war party, and the judicial branch has been overwhelmingly compromised.

And, despite all the B.S. propoganda to the contrary, it is, after all, the job of our military troops to learn to be psychopath and sociopath robot killers, insofar as any military superior declares any other human to be "the enemy."

So I can't think of anything more appropriate and right than for our military to recruit young men who are already psychopath and sociopath Nazis. All they have to do then is turn them into speed freaks (if they aren't already) and turn them loose. There isn't a single military recruiter who won't tell a kid how to beat the drug test, and the kids don't have to cook up their own meth anymore; the government hands it out like vitamins. Hell, they probably put it in the FOOD.

Saves a ton of time in boot camp. And they already have the haircuts.

And the Stars and Stripes makes a far bigger and badder swastica than Hitler could ever have dreamed of, because there's just a little extra kick in something that started out so very long ago and so very pure, being corrupted so perfectly and permanently.

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Some comments on neo-Nazis...
Posted by: sugamretniw on Jul 10, 2006 7:53 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hmmm, I guess I have a few comments and maybe someone who's a skinhead could educate me. Now let me go ahead and give my disclaimer, I am a 29-year old Black man. I grew up in Queens NY and graduated with a degree in Comp
Science from a University on the East Coast.

First question, if you're a young white guy who wants to "fight for your race" why become a skinhead? Why not just go to college and become a banker or something. I think that would be much more constructive for you and your people than becoming out of control animals who salivate at the fantasy of a race war. I guess i've never understood why in order to be proud of yourself and your people you need to denigrate others? I'm proud to be Black and when I think of why i'm proud it has nothing whatsoever to do with any other group. However with skinheads and the like, you all seem to define your strength as a function of other races' perceived weaknesses. It's like you define your strength in terms of anti-social behavior. To me, for Hitler, a caucasian, to try to muder other caucasian people who happen to be Jewish is kinda crazy but you guys think he was on the right path?

As far as comparing skinheads to "black power" I guess you'd have to be very specific as to your comparisons. To me, I see the entire US millitary as "white power", they just don't seem to be for poor, uneducated white's power. They definitely seem to defend the wealthier caucasians so there that is. I guess the only analogy to me of a "black power" organization being compared to a skinhead-type org is if it took place somewhere in Africa. Like, if in Nigeria somewhere there was a violent black organization that felt that they had to "defend" the black population against the non-blacks living in the country...lol.

There's not going to be a race war. Who in their right mind wishes to run around hurting other people? Why would I want to do that? I have a good job that pays me a bunch of money. I use some of this money to help pay for my relatives' fees in college and the rest I save. Honestly the last time I got mad enough to cause someone physical harm was this past weekend when I couldn't figure out whether or not to get the 60" 720p television or the 1080i because of some weird thing with my xbox360....lol. Besides, whom would a "race war" benefit? Not me. I doubt my boss who happens to be a Caucasian wants one either. Why would he want me and my fellow engineers dead, many of which happen to be Indian? Yeah, I can really see my mom and dad running around with uzis. As a matter of fact my mom re-married and married a white guy but she seems to like him so I doubt she'll shoot him. A race war, lol, you guys crack me up.

It's interesting because I think what has happened is that many neo-nazi types feel marginalized but not really from other races but from their own. Your own people have left you behind, without a way to compete in the new "global" economy. I think that the sub-conscious rationale on the part of the neo-nazi is that if they do this violent dirty-work their own people will see them in a favorable light and bring them back into the fold. So I guess maybe Hitler had actually figured out the nazi conundrum far earlier and tried to solve it by eliminating the better-off Caucasians. I don't know, it all seems kinda crazy to me. Either way, you guys, you neo-nazi types need to get this whole pathological thingy figured out because your issues are affecting the rest of us. Anyway, that's just what I think but I could be wrong, it's happened before. Either way just don't shoot me, not until I get this whole 1080i thing figured out....lol.

M.Winter

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» great post... Posted by: gltirebiter
Good article...
Posted by: adp3d on Jul 10, 2006 10:09 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...hmm... I find it interesting that these guys have to mix themselves with "unclean races" that make up a large percentage of the military and actually have to depend on them to stay alive. Another thing - the very people the soldiers are fighting as well as fighting to protect refer to American soldiers as "Jews"...

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Rules and Regulations
Posted by: sgtcallaway on Jul 11, 2006 8:51 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I hold here a copy of the enlistment criteria manual for the military. see AR 670-1, Chapter 1, para 1-8e, page 5 .... gee that seems like a disqualifier to me!! maybe people should understand that even though some apples turn bad, it doesnt make the tree worthless. ohh and lets not forget a true american hero who traveled to the afgan to seek out the man with plan to become a terrorist. maybe we shouldnt worry about a soldiers personal life as long as they do their job without any type of "alternate" agenda. but none the less neo nazism in the military is wrong, but at least they are not afraid to shoot for their battle buddy.

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Feminist solution
Posted by: Burton on Jul 14, 2006 1:37 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Here's a solution to the Pentagon's recruiting shortfalls:

Recruit feminists.

That's right, recruit feminists into special units which will fight against the Taliban. I am sure that feminists will love to put their money were their mouths are by taking up arms to fight against the anti-woman Taliban. And as well, these feminist combat units would counter-balance the Afghan warlords.

And since anything a man can do a woman can do better, feminist combat units could finally defeat the Taliban insurgency which has frustrated the Pentagon for so long.

So let's see feminists, including the ones on this website, march on down to their recruiting stations and demand to be sent into combat in Afghanistan.

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