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Could Bush Be Prosecuted for War Crimes?

By Jan Frel, AlterNet. Posted July 10, 2006.


A Nuremberg chief prosecutor says there is a case for trying Bush for the 'supreme crime against humanity, an illegal war of aggression against a sovereign nation.'
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The extent to which American exceptionalism is embedded in the national psyche is awesome to behold.

While the United States is a country like any other, its citizens no more special than any others on the planet, Americans still react with surprise at the suggestion that their country could be held responsible for something as heinous as a war crime.

From the massacre of more than 100,000 people in the Philippines to the first nuclear attack ever at Hiroshima to the unprovoked invasion of Baghdad, U.S.-sponsored violence doesn't feel as wrong and worthy of prosecution in internationally sanctioned criminal courts as the gory, bload-soaked atrocities of Congo, Darfur, Rwanda, and most certainly not the Nazis -- most certainly not. Howard Zinn recently described this as our "inability to think outside the boundaries of nationalism. We are penned in by the arrogant idea that this country is the center of the universe, exceptionally virtuous, admirable, superior."

Most Americans firmly believe there is nothing the United States or its political leadership could possibly do that could equate to the crimes of Hitler's Third Reich. The Nazis are our "gold standard of evil," as author John Dolan once put it.

But the truth is that we can, and we have -- most recently and significantly in Iraq. Perhaps no person on the planet is better equipped to identify and describe our crimes in Iraq than Benjamin Ferencz, a former chief prosecutor of the Nuremberg Trials who successfully convicted 22 Nazi officers for their work in orchestrating death squads that killed more than one million people in the famous Einsatzgruppen Case. Ferencz, now 87, has gone on to become a founding father of the basis behind international law regarding war crimes, and his essays and legal work drawing from the Nuremberg trials and later the commission that established the International Criminal Court remain a lasting influence in that realm.

Ferencz's biggest contribution to the war crimes field is his assertion that an unprovoked or "aggressive" war is the highest crime against mankind. It was the decision to invade Iraq in 2003 that made possible the horrors of Abu Ghraib, the destruction of Fallouja and Ramadi, the tens of thousands of Iraqi deaths, civilian massacres like Haditha, and on and on. Ferencz believes that a "prima facie case can be made that the United States is guilty of the supreme crime against humanity, that being an illegal war of aggression against a sovereign nation."

Interviewed from his home in New York, Ferencz laid out a simple summary of the case:

"The United Nations charter has a provision which was agreed to by the United States formulated by the United States in fact, after World War II. Its says that from now on, no nation can use armed force without the permission of the U.N. Security Council. They can use force in connection with self-defense, but a country can't use force in anticipation of self-defense. Regarding Iraq, the last Security Council resolution essentially said, 'Look, send the weapons inspectors out to Iraq, have them come back and tell us what they've found -- then we'll figure out what we're going to do. The U.S. was impatient, and decided to invade Iraq -- which was all pre-arranged of course. So, the United States went to war, in violation of the charter."

It's that simple. Ferencz called the invasion a "clear breach of law," and dismissed the Bush administration's legal defense that previous U.N. Security Council resolutions dating back to the first Gulf War justified an invasion in 2003. Ferencz notes that the first Bush president believed that the United States didn't have a U.N. mandate to go into Iraq and take out Saddam Hussein; that authorization was simply to eject Hussein from Kuwait. Ferencz asked, "So how do we get authorization more than a decade later to finish the job? The arguments made to defend this are not persuasive."

Writing for the United Kingdom's Guardian, shortly before the 2003 invasion, international law expert Mark Littman echoed Ferencz: "The threatened war against Iraq will be a breach of the United Nations Charter and hence of international law unless it is authorized by a new and unambiguous resolution of the Security Council. The Charter is clear. No such war is permitted unless it is in self-defense or authorized by the Security Council."

Challenges to the legality of this war can also be found at the ground level. First Lt. Ehren Watada, the first U.S. commissioned officer to refuse to serve in Iraq, cites the rules of the U.N. Charter as a principle reason for his dissent.

Ferencz isn't using the invasion of Iraq as a convenient prop to exercise his longstanding American hatred: he has a decades-old paper trail of calls for every suspect of war crimes to be brought to international justice. When the United States captured Saddam Hussein in December 2003, Ferencz wrote that Hussein's offenses included "the supreme international crime of aggression, to a wide variety of crimes against humanity, and a long list of atrocities condemned by both international and national laws."

Ferencz isn't the first to make the suggestion that the United States has committed state-sponsored war crimes against another nation -- not only have leading war critics made this argument, but so had legal experts in the British government before the 2003 invasion. In a short essay in 2005, Ferencz lays out the inner deliberations of British and American officials as the preparations for the war were made:

U.K. military leaders had been calling for clear assurances that the war was legal under international law. They were very mindful that the treaty creating a new International Criminal Court (ICC) in The Hague had entered into force on July 1, 2002, with full support of the British government. Gen. Sir Mike Jackson, chief of the defense staff, was quoted as saying "I spent a good deal of time recently in the Balkans making sure Milosevic was put behind bars. I have no intention of ending up in the next cell to him in The Hague."
Ferencz quotes the British deputy legal adviser to the Foreign Ministry who, in the lead-up to the invasion, quit abruptly and wrote in her resignation letter: "I regret that I cannot agree that it is lawful to use force against Iraq without a second Security Council resolution … [A]n unlawful use of force on such a scale amounts to the crime of aggression; nor can I agree with such action in circumstances that are so detrimental to the international order and the rule of law."

While the United Kingdom is a signatory of the ICC, and therefore under jurisdiction of that court, the United States is not, thanks to a Republican majority in Congress that has "attacks on America's sovereignty" and "manipulation by the United Nations" in its pantheon of knee-jerk neuroses. Ferencz concedes that even though Britain and its leadership could be prosecuted, the international legal climate isn't at a place where justice is blind enough to try it -- or as Ferencz put it, humanity isn't yet "civilized enough to prevent this type of illegal behavior." And Ferencz said that while he believes the United States is guilty of war crimes, "the international community is not sufficiently organized to prosecute such a case. … There is no court at the moment that is competent to try that crime."

As Ferencz said, the world is still a long way away from establishing norms that put all nations under the rule of law, but the battle to do so is a worthy one: "There's no such thing as a war without atrocities, but war-making is the biggest atrocity of all."

The suggestion that the Bush administration's conduct in the "war on terror" amounts to a string of war crimes and human rights abuses is gaining credence in even the most ossified establishment circles of Washington. Justice Anthony Kennedy's opinion in the recent Hamdan v. Rumsfeld ruling by the Supreme Court suggests that Bush's attempt to ignore the Geneva Conventions in his approved treatment of terror suspects may leave him open to prosecution for war crimes. As Sidney Blumenthal points out, the Court rejected Bush's attempt to ignore Common Article 3, which bans "cruel treatment and torture [and] outrages upon personal dignity, in particular humiliating and degrading treatment."

And since Congress enacted the Geneva Conventions, making them the law of the United States, any violations that Bush or any other American commits "are considered 'war crimes' punishable as federal offenses," as Justice Kennedy wrote.

George W. Bush in the dock facing a charge of war crimes? That's well beyond the scope of possibility … or is it?

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Jan Frel is an AlterNet staff writer.

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View:
Together with Cheney, Rumsfeld & Addington
Posted by: aurora2484 on Jul 10, 2006 12:41 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
George W. Bush in the dock facing a charge of war crimes? That's well beyond the scope of possibility … or is it?

Not while he's deemed a head of state I think?
'Heads of State and senior government officials are immune from prosecution, until, that is, they have left office. This process has become known as "the principle of universal jurisdiction". ' Stephen Green, Counterpunch:
"When War Criminals Retire"

But thereafter, it's all-systems-go.

He won't be alone, I think:
"Senior leadership in the military has long opposed Bush’s war-paradigm policies. From the start the Judges Advocate General vehemently resisted the abrogation of legal standards. Then Powell, the former chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, spoke for much of the military in his opposition. But they were ignored. Last year, the general counsel of the Navy, Alberto Mora, and Matthew Waxman, deputy assistant secretary of defense for detainee policy, strongly argued for adherence to Common Article 3. But Cheney, Rumsfeld and Addington suppressed them."
Sidney Blumenthal, Salon
"The Imperial Presidency Crushed"

(for direct ref links, see Jan's other article, on Lt Watada.)

» How soon we forget Posted by: derfb1
» RE: How soon we forget Posted by: derfb1
» How soon YOU forget Posted by: russianblue1
» RE: How soon YOU forget Posted by: dancingcloud
» RE: How soon YOU forget Posted by: billevans
» RE: How soon YOU forget Posted by: Pickles78
» Idiot troll Posted by: cold2touch
» RE: vitrolic words Posted by: Gregor
» RE: vitrolic words Posted by: rozrocks
» RE: How soon we forget Posted by: ethanay
» RE: How soon we forget Posted by: rozrocks
» RE: Willingly Duped Posted by: eyeman
» RE: How soon we forget Posted by: Overlord
» RE: How soon we forget Posted by: krose
» RE: How soon we forget Posted by: hippobutt
» Weapons & Rumsfeld Part 2 Posted by: CW4RETIRED
» Your question on Scott Ritter Posted by: CW4RETIRED
Seems unlikely...
Posted by: RoffleTheWaffle on Jul 10, 2006 12:33 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The article lays it out plainly. Nobody in the world has the brains or the balls to take America on, not even the Americans themselves. Either they don't see the problem, or they don't want to deal with it, for any one of a million reasons. In other words, as it stands now, justice simply won't be had and as in many cases these days simply shouldn't be expected.

Of course, just because we can't expect justice doesn't mean that we shouldn't want it, or fight for it. Should anyone powerful enough, smart enough, and ballsy enough muster up the courage and the legal funding necessary to call the American government on it's shit, I'd reckon they'd be worth following and supporting. The case of a lifetime, decades of deliberation. The 'long war'. I could use some courthouse excitement, it's been a while since the days of O.J. Simpson and Monica Lewinsky. You know I'd be watching.

It's just too bad that anyone who would be willing to call the American government out would probably wind up at the bottom of a river within a week of issuing their challenge...

» don't be ridiculous Posted by: mokidugway
» RE: don't be ridiculous Posted by: aurora2484
» RE: don't be ridiculous Posted by: mokidugway
» RE: don't be ridiculous Posted by: sidewinder
» RE: don't be ridiculous Posted by: babs
» RE: don't be ridiculous Posted by: krose
» Living in the South Posted by: paulaH
» WHY BASH THE SOUTH? Posted by: beausoleil
» ON PESSIMISM Posted by: LMNOP
» RE: ON PESSIMISM Posted by: tiellis
» RE: Seems unlikely... Posted by: amacd
» RE: Seems unlikely... Posted by: AlienSlave
» RE: Seems unlikely... Posted by: douglashoyt
» RE: Seems unlikely... Posted by: lib3288
» Looks like I went and made someone mad. Posted by: RoffleTheWaffle
» RE: Seems unlikely... Posted by: Earthling
it's only a matter of time
Posted by: aurora2484 on Jul 10, 2006 1:00 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"the international community is not sufficiently organized to prosecute such a case. … There is no court at the moment that is competent to try that crime." (Ferencz)

It would be a mistake to underestimate the anger, the determination, and the requirement for justice, of a parent who's child's life has been destroyed (at Guantanamo) at the whim of conscienceless tyrants and fools.

When the boy w steps down, the men will be waiting for him.

» RE: it's only a matter of time Posted by: jonwilson
» RE: it's only a matter of time Posted by: cottontail
» RE: it's only a matter of time Posted by: aonghus36
» RE: Imagine the possibilities Posted by: enzolima
not for the "war" as such, but for specific violations
Posted by: aurora2484 on Jul 10, 2006 1:51 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
For "going to war" ... don't know .. too big to take on?

But for specific violations, yes.

Those pesky war crimes
Posted by: HeroesAll on Jul 10, 2006 2:20 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A couple of years ago I read Geoffrey Robertson's Crimes Against Humanity. An interesting read, although damn hard to get through, Robertson being an exceptionally gifted thinker, barrister, and human rights activist. I didn't agree with all of his points, but they made me think, and change some of my ideas.

One of the points that he made throughout the book was the difficulty of working towards a truly international system of justice. Logically, of course, there's no difference between a country and a state within a country, so if people support the idea of impartial law within a state, and also within a country composed of states, then logically they should also support justice within a world composed of countries.

And, just as federal laws tend to be more 'important' or less local, so international laws should be more 'important' or bigger or less local still. Hence the war crimes and crimes against humanity.

You'd also think that the country that portrays itself as being the bastion of fairness, justice, equality, and apple pie would be completely in favour of international law. After all, law is devised (in general) for the protection of the little guy against the big guys.

And therein lies the problem. America is undoubtedly the biggest guy, and doesn't want to be held to account by any pesky laws. So they make up all sorts of justifications about American exceptionalism to cover the fact that they don't want to be held to the same standards as the rest of the world. And the people believe it, because (a) they've been told all their lives that they're special, and (b) because their media are generally filtered and censored and twisted. So they're living in a bubble.

Robertson's point was that the international law system could come in fits and starts. But a recent book by Gwynne Dyer, called Future Tense, pointed out that if the US doesn't stop acting this way soon, international law will be dead in the water, and we'll go back to the days of highly-armed barbarism.

» RE: Those pesky war crimes Posted by: mokidugway
» RE: Those pesky war crimes Posted by: John Rice
» RE: Those pesky war crimes Posted by: mkeeling@jam.rr.com
» RE: Those pesky war crimes Posted by: HeroesAll
» RE: Those pesky war crimes Posted by: Pickles78
» RE: Those pesky war crimes Posted by: John Rice
In a Word:Yes
Posted by: NoPCZone on Jul 10, 2006 2:32 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
GWB, Cheney, Rumsfeld & Wolfowitz Are All Guilty. BTW- the Congress that has sat by doing nothing to stop this bunch owes Richard Nixon an apology.

» RE: In a Word:Yes Posted by: John Rice
» RE: Nixon Posted by: NoPCZone
» LOL Posted by: LMNOP
» RE: LOL Posted by: cyclone
» RE: In a Word:Yes Posted by: lively56
» RE: In a Word:Yes Posted by: gregb
» RE: In a Word:Yes Posted by: NoPCZone
» RE: In a Word:Yes Posted by: Pickles78
In a shorter word: NO
Posted by: jonwilson on Jul 10, 2006 2:42 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Could Bush Be Prosecuted for War Crimes?"

This remains a dream of liberals. But like most of their dreams such as cars that run on granola, social acceptance of body odor, do it yourself abortion kits and legalized pot, it will never come true.

Bush won't even be impeached if the dems take COngress. Pelosi has already said that if the dems. win they will not try to impeach.

But you guys can keep dreaming. After all it is so cute to see you all get so excited thinking Bush could be prosecuted for war crimes. It is like watching a child on Christmas Eve in anticipation of all the presents to come. Only difference is your present is never coming.

» That reaks of complicity. Posted by: WhatNow?
» RE: In a shorter word: NO Posted by: HeroesAll
» RE: In a shorter word: NO Posted by: Vietnam Vet
» RE: In a shorter word: NO Posted by: jonwilson
» You reveal yourself Posted by: russianblue1
» RE: In a shorter word: NO Posted by: sidewinder
» sidewinder Posted by: cyclone
» W thinks he has a line to God... Posted by: chief of okeefe
» RE: Hitler was a Christian too Posted by: enzolima
» RE: ps Posted by: enzolima
» Thanks, Jonwilson! Posted by: bassman
The USA and the ICC
Posted by: Wish on Jul 10, 2006 2:52 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As was stated, the ICC is situated in The Hague, The Netherlands. As part of their megalomania, a resolution was enacted by the USA, that would 'justify' an invasion of The Netherlands, in case any American was held in prison by/for the ICC. To subsequently free this person.
Because any American accused of war crimes could only be propaganda from america's enemies, of course. And would only be used against the USA. and whatever more reasoning.
That means that basically the USA declared war on my country, an sovereign nation, that has a State Lottery older than the USA...A long time ally of the USA.
So you see nothing is sacred.
Of course, my country's government was totally inadequate in the reacting to this highly aggressive move.

Shows that international community is indeed not 'ready' yet: they're threatened with the force of invasion...

» RE: The USA and the ICC Posted by: HeroesAll
» War is hell Posted by: Wish
» RE: The USA and the ICC Posted by: mokidugway
» The ICC's jurisdiction does not extend... Posted by: fool-on-the-hill
Who Need A Trial?
Posted by: ChristopherLL on Jul 10, 2006 3:04 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Bush administration will not be put on trial, although in time they might be judged in some venue, but it does not matter. Whatever strength, integrity and trust we may have had internationally has been irreversibly reduced and damaged. The countries that will become leaders in this world in the future, China, India and Russia, have taken note of our use of the military to dominate, punish and destroy whoever we deem an "enemy" and the corollary that we have no diplomatic leverage or expertise.

They know they cannot confront us militarily but do not have to. They will use economics to challenge and eventually surpass this country as leading world powers. We placed an enormous amount of money, man power and pschic energy into our military/industrial complex after WWII and it seems after the fall of the Berlin wall could not adapt to a new world. Our military will be meaningless within a short period of time, I believe, for the challenge now is to either use our engergies to live as an integrated international community and protect our environments or simply begin the slow process of becoming once again barbaric and possibly extinct.

» RE: Who Need A Trial?.....in a nutshell sickofsleaze Posted by: ladybug1@carrollsweb.com
» RE: Who Need A Trial? Posted by: cyclone
» RE: Who Need A Trial? Posted by: ChristopherLL
» RE: Who Need A Trial? Posted by: cyclone
» RE: Who Need A Trial? Posted by: davewuxi
» davewuxi Posted by: cyclone
He Should be IMPEACHED and JAILED
Posted by: thinkverybig on Jul 10, 2006 3:19 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I hope like hell this idiot is impeached and jailed for all of the things he's done wrong. This is by far the worst President in history and it's time we Americans wake up and make him liable for all of the misdeeds he has done. There are so many to list. We need to act now and get rid of this nut.

» RE: That would be too kind. Posted by: enzolima
» RE: That would be too kind. Posted by: thinkverybig
Impeach him first, then bring him to trial with his cronies.
Posted by: kgs1947 on Jul 10, 2006 3:19 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There's a grassroots movement among city/county councils to draw up petitions for impeachment of this man. I hope it becomes a monumental movement that is successful. Bush is a psychopath.

» "Knocked" your point OUT!!!! Posted by: russianblue1
» RE: Institutionalize Bill Clinton sickofsleaze Posted by: ladybug1@carrollsweb.com
anarchists
Posted by: rsaxto on Jul 10, 2006 3:46 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Bushies are anarchists at heart for they have no use for any pesky laws that outlaw their war crimes. IMPEACH THE CRIMINAL BUSHIE ANARCHISTS!

» RE: anarchists sickofsleaze Posted by: ladybug1@carrollsweb.com
Bush Is A War Criminal
Posted by: custersbud on Jul 10, 2006 4:20 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I live for the day Bush and his acolytes are dragged before a tribunal to be held accountable for their crimes against humanity. Eventually, someone somewhere will grow the balls to do it.

Thanks to CNN for running Larry King's interview with Bush and the ever vacuous Laura ad nauseum. It really highlights what an absolute dolt he is.

sickofsleaze
Posted by: ladybug1@carrollsweb.com on Jul 10, 2006 4:30 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"If Tyranny and Opression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy"and "The means of defense against foriegn danger historically have become the instrument of tyranny at home" James Madison 4th President. From Capitol Hill Blue. Appropriate tho not the main subject under discussion today

won't happen
Posted by: mokidugway on Jul 10, 2006 5:09 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When you are in power, you get to make the rules that other people--in this case, nations--have to follow. You may use that power judiciously or recklessly, but either way you are above the law; discretion and compliance are optional.

Bush has seriously abused his power, and for that he must be impeached. That is the appropriate Constitutional remedy, and it is the right thing to do. This administration has raided the federal government like carpetbaggers, and they deserve a day of reckoning. Needless to say, impeachment would also be an important gesture of good will toward the international community.

But he will never be tried for war crimes in an international court of law.

» RE: won't happen Posted by: symcokid
» Don't be so sure Posted by: apost8
» RE: Don't be so sure Posted by: cottontail
» RE: won't happen Posted by: amazed again
that's why they will try to arrange for no transfer of power...
Posted by: perico on Jul 10, 2006 5:25 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
those who think that the american people will be allowed to elect anything but more of the same underestimate the current level of control the neocon wing of the republican party have over the outcome, and the lengths they will go to retain power. Anyway, Cheney knows he will be dead before he can be held to account. His health isn't that good... so he's trying to "shoot the moon" and as far as I can tell, has been pretty successful at it. What can derail the neocon train? Not congress, not the court, not the powerful corporations. I would say it would only be a rebellion by the military or an economic derailment orchestrated by a coalition of anti american nations. Neither would be pretty.

Thinking that the next election will bring a change of power and direction for this country is naive. Yeah, ya gotta vote, but these guys are playing for keeps and have become very good at this game. At some point they won't even need to create the illusion of free and fair elections. Hell, orchestrate another 911, maybe even a bigger event, declare marshall law, send the troops onto the streets and poof, it will finally become clear that the good ole constitution really is history.

Inhibited travel
Posted by: brunowe on Jul 10, 2006 6:33 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Although an actual trial is unlikely, Bush & Co. could find that their ability to travel outside of this country becomes sharply curtailed after they step down for fear of criminal charges being bought in foreign courts for their actions (think Pinochet).

I would point out, however, that unlike genocide and war crimes, the war of aggression crime charge hasn't been used since Nuremberg itself which makes we wonder about the international community's willingness to follow the Nuremberg precedent in this respect.

War Crimes are committed by the losers
Posted by: knocko on Jul 10, 2006 6:46 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If you have the evidence impeach him. It's a slippery slope to start charging leaders with "war crimes" . Nuremburg was not model of due process. and the Milosovic trial was a farce.

The idea that some wars are so good that crimes aren't committed during them is absurd. Most wars that last more than a couple of days include atrocities. Whether the individual soldier just freaked out, or the officers or the leaders gave a green light can be debated going back to Caesar's conquests.

Prevent war where possible. (I'm a big fan of bribes. Definitely would have been cheaper to pay Sadaam off). When not possible, maximum force-get it over with ASAP. Dont futz around with the jungle crap we did in Vietnam and the "convoys" that are sitting ducks in Iraq. Identify who supports the enemy-eliminate them, "innocents" and all. in the end that saves lives. It's howt the Romans dealt with enemies. For the vast majority of Roman citizens, there was 500 years of peace. No one said the Emperor was a "war criminal". It's a nonsensical Wilsonian concept.

PS: As for the Nazis, the Polish and other E. Europeans could have tried various Germans for murder, arson, theft etc. and probably would have executed more Nazis than the built from imagination "war crimes" tribunals.

» RE: hey, you are a special case Posted by: cold2touch
gramps
Posted by: gramps on Jul 10, 2006 6:45 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Congress violated article 1 section 8 of the United States Constitution when it authorized Bush to wage war. Only Congress has this right and Congress allowing any other branch of government to wage war is a violation of its oath of office.

The president is only allowed to use military force if we are attacked but since Pearl Harbor there has been only one attack on The United States and that was the Israeli attack on the American Navy vessel Liberty in international waters by Israel.

Shock and awe was no different than Hitler's attack on Poland or the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. It was an unprovoked assault on an unprepared population. This was not only an attack on The Nuremberg Court and The United Nations Charter, but was an attack on The Constitution of The United States.

» RE: Bravo gramps! Posted by: Ghoulman
» RE: Bravo gramps! sickofsleaze Posted by: ladybug1@carrollsweb.com
Nation of Laws?
Posted by: symcokid on Jul 10, 2006 6:46 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What exactly did the Hussein counterpart mean when he said, "we are a Nation of Laws", does anybody know? I don't imagine most people will remember before this illegal Iraq invasion that infamous one liner by Dubya, "we will put the oil in trust for the people of Iraq". I guess it ties in with his other diddie, "we will liberate the Iraqi people", which can only translate into, "what's our oil doing under Iraq's sand"? Or, we will free them of their oil, period!

We are a Nation of Laws alright and Free, free to circumvent any that we choose, even International Law. Laws and Rules of War only apply to other countries. We've gotten away with atrocities for so long, why would Americans react with amazed surprise at pre-emptive attacks or ignoring KYOTO consensus?

The ONLY way they will be prosecuted for war crimes...
Posted by: xbj on Jul 10, 2006 6:54 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The ONLY way they will be prosecuted for war crimes is the same way the first Nazis were prosecuted; by the rest of the world uniting against them, pounding their thousand-year Reich into rubble, and hauling the ones that survived out of the wreckage. Which in this case will be from underground bunkers far below the glowing black cinder that once was Amerika.

Which is exactly how this crew will be prosecuted, and when. I don't care HOW big and powerful the US of Amerika is, it cannot stand against the combined weapons and forces of the entire rest of the world, and that is what this country will be facing the second they nuke Iran due to the reprehensible and almost unbelievably fascist policies of this war profiteering and idiotically suicidal Adminstration and cabal.

As far as justice is concerned, no telling who will be able to cheat the sword by committing suicide first and who won't. The rest who survive will most assuredly be beheaded, including Scalia, on live television, to a roar that will be heard around the entire planet to the gates of Hell itself.

TROLL ALERT; IGNORE AND CONQUER
Posted by: sirossisofliver on Jul 10, 2006 7:00 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As you all may be aware, there has been an influx of Morlocks to our site, of late.

With every new Alternet Blog discussion, watch out for the following Neo-Con WingNut Infiltrators:

knocko
rightwing1
NC3
RWcowboy
Phenix
Supercrisp
zvirgil2
resistance6
conservasaurus
butthead
jonwilson

PLEASE refrain from responding to their agenda-driven, NeoCon Drivel in order to prevent them from high-jacking the threads.

IGNORING THESE ACEREBRAL IDIOTS ALLOWS US TO CARRY ON WITH OUR REASONED DISCUSSIONS.

» RE: TROLL ALERT; IGNORE AND CONQUER Posted by: RoffleTheWaffle
» RE: TROLL ALERT; IGNORE AND CONQUER Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: TROLL ALERT; IGNORE AND CONQUER Posted by: RoffleTheWaffle
» I made the list! NICE Posted by: jonwilson
» RE: TROLL ALERT; IGNORE AND CONQUER Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: TROLL ALERT; IGNORE AND CONQUER Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: TROLL ALERT; IGNORE AND CONQUER Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: TROLL ALERT; IGNORE AND CONQUER Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: TROLL ALERT; IGNORE AND CONQUER Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: A spincter says what? Posted by: enzolima
» Conservasaurus Posted by: cyclone
www.trolls.com
Posted by: cold2touch on Jul 10, 2006 8:08 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
is hiring bigtime.
As many are aware, the corporate media/neocon complex is freaked out by the growing power of blogosphere and are trying to smear and subjugate internet as a whole.
They fear that their hearts+minds ownership of American psyche is slipping and are resorting to all manners of swiftboating tactics to restore it.
Does it not seem strange that 20 trolls would hit a single progressive post like this one all at once?
When do I ever peruse reactionary e-zines? I pretty much know their content of mindless venom and cannot hope to learn anything new, so I just don't waste my time there.

What Alternet and its likes need is the IGNORE BUTTON, so that the poster dispappears from the user's view until removed from ignore list.
This is what yahoo trading boards have due of heavy troll infestation designed to choke traffic and spook traders into moves of mass panic exploited by hedge funds.

Until that time, exercise your own control, don't bother reading posts by known trolls and getting needlessly riled and don't answer, they get paid by response

short but no troll
Posted by: larry278 on Jul 10, 2006 8:08 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
At the risk of being called a troll, G W Bush, his minders. sychophants, operatives, et al aka Bushies are guilty of many instances of treason. The USA has a death penalty. As far as I know none of the International Tribunals which would try the Bushies for their many war crimes & other crimes against humanity can exact the death penaly on any person such a tribunal would find guilty. The Bushies truly merit the death penalty. The USA has 1 federal prison which has a facility for execution in Ft Wayne, IN & many states have facilities in their prisons for executions & experience in executing criminals. Treason trials in the USA for the Bushies is a better answer than International Tribunals.
If the Bushies persist in their pattern of treason they will destroy the USA but unite the rest of the world in disgust. One could say that the Bushies excessive reliance upon the existance upon the USA's vast store of nuclear weapons & weapons systems to deliver a nuclear punch to cow other nations into tacitly allowing the USA to commit war crimes is another incident of treason.

» RE: short but no troll Posted by: cold2touch
» RE: the world in disgust Posted by: Ghoulman
Sorry, FIGHT THE TROLLS. 1000% With the truth.
Posted by: xbj on Jul 10, 2006 8:15 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have to disagree, the VERY thing the Rove boileroom boys want is for their posts to stand unchallenged, as if they were the truth, posted by real people, and that there was some sort of consensus going on with like-minded people on the net. NOTHING could be further from the truth.

No, we have to fight them with the truth, with links if we've got 'em, because they can't fight the truth, folks.

Which is why they've started these "capitulate by attrition" posts. Or "Ignore us so our posts will stand as unchallengeable."

NO. Not this time. Crawl back under your rocks, the way you will come December 1st when "your employment will no longer be required."

Because we were here before you came, and will be here long after you've gone.

» RE: only one thing works... Posted by: Ghoulman
» RE: they get paid... Posted by: Ghoulman
» RE: they get paid... Posted by: xbj
» WOW..these related posts are scary Posted by: Conservasaurus
NY Times tried will be for treason
Posted by: Conservasaurus on Jul 10, 2006 8:35 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
before Bush will be tried for war crimes..

I any case, thre UN is a joke and the world knows it.. totally ineffective and corrupt. No argument there.

While this site would love for us to equate the Nazi's with the Bush administration that is so far fetched it really isn't worth commenting on. If thats the case then the US and England and France were just as guilty in WW2 as the Germans and Japanese.

The problem here is that statements are taken out of context for the purpose of this article and are taken out of the context of the current political situation.. (America under terrorists attack.. Iraq supporting terrorists and any country that harbors and allows training facilities of terrorist is a legitimite target). Terrorism is against all humanity and it's the right of nations to defend themselves. THe UN as proven incapable of doing so.

So President Bush is acting in the best interest of the US and is charged with that responsibility as President. It would be a crime if he didnt try to protect us from an attack!

God Bless America and support our troops!

» RE: what a twit you are! Posted by: Ghoulman
» RE: what a twit you are! Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: what a twit you STILL are! Posted by: Ghoulman
» It's also a crime Posted by: russianblue1
» RE: NY Times tried will be for treason Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: NY Times tried will be for treason Posted by: Conservasaurus
» xbj biting attack!! stay tuned!!!!! Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: NY Times tried will be for treason Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: NY Times tried will be for treason Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: NY Times tried will be for treason Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: NY Times tried will be for treason Posted by: progressiveview
» I dunno Whadya think? Posted by: knocko
» RE: I dunno Whadya think? Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: I dunno Whadya think? Posted by: Ghoulman
» The wolves are gathering Posted by: knocko
» RE: GOD DAMN CONSERVATIVES Posted by: enzolima
» RE: GOD DAMN CONSERVATIVES Posted by: Conservasaurus
isolated America
Posted by: Ghoulman on Jul 10, 2006 8:41 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
War Crimes Trial? There are worse punishments for political folly and murder.

Under the leadership of the "conservatives" since Reagan, continuing where Nixon left off, it's interesting to note that the USA has, weirdly, unsigned missile treaties, human rights laws, ignored international laws, and has attacked the UN repeatedly.

The result is, as we have seen lately, American influence has shrunk to nothing. Note how India, China, Russia, hell, the entire world has told the USA (Condi Rice specifically) they will ignore US power. A power leaking fast.

The USA stands alone, and has attacked anyone who might suggest the USA is acting unilaterally. That would be the rest of the world. The irony is US myopia tells Americans that the rest of the world doesn't matter... well, guess again.

The USA is already considered quite the joke. International business is leaving the US, business don't bother to trade, the US$ is soon to loose it's status, dept in the trillions, and a Cold War economy... the US is less and less of any importance to the world. The only reason the USA is even mentioned in the news is to report the latest atrocities.

Long War? Buy a clue America, it's already a short war, and the USA has already lost.

George W. Bush and Dick Cheney know they are safe from any prosecution... but there are worse punishments, like the decline of the American Empire in a single generation.

» RE: isolated America sickofsleaze Posted by: ladybug1@carrollsweb.com
» RE: isolated America sickofsleaze sickofsleaze Posted by: ladybug1@carrollsweb.com
» RE: The world HATES America. Posted by: Ghoulman
» knocko Posted by: cyclone
sickofsleaze
Posted by: ladybug1@carrollsweb.com on Jul 10, 2006 9:16 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Before the echoes of the NYC building collapse died away the White House spin machine was denying it was a terrorist attack. Do the terrorist do as the Indians of old did and send smoke signals saying "Duck quick, terrorists at work?

All powers come to an end
Posted by: Maryanne on Jul 10, 2006 9:24 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"The Counter Reformation loosely coincided with the incompetant, disasterous reign of Jojn II (of Poland). This was a period of warfare with invasions from the east that conquered easten Poland, invasions from Sweden, with ultimate loss of additional lands. Plague, war, mass murders...reduced the population...Three fourths of the inhabitants were gone, manfacturing and industrial enterprizes stopped, cost of the wars resullted in the greatest inflation known in Poland. Since these wars were carried on in the spirit of religious struggle, consequences included the end of religious toleration...

A bried respite came with the election of John Sobieski in 1674. He was a national hero who in his successful fight against the Ottoman Turks stopped the spread of Islam throughout Europe. While he offered hope to the beleagered Poles that he could restore their days of glory, he proved to be more significant in the history of Europe than of benefit to Poland...

18th century Poland was rapidly spinning our of control while Russia and Prussia were emerging... and Poland was becoming a pawn in the aggressive power struggles of these rising nations...

Poland's leadership under arrogant but importunate kings had added to its problems... Concurrently Poland embarked on an ill advised war against Sweden...further weakening Poland.

The Seym (Parliament) was completely ineffective on those rare occassions that it met, unable to function... Literacy ...fell to its lowest point in their history...

Religious quarrels and further turmoil resulted...the dissidents petitioned Catherine of Russia to guarantee their rights...Catherine acted...the weakened Seym was forced to accept her authority... (Others) rose against Catherine's interference...Prussia, Austria and Russia cooperated in the beginnng of the dismemberment of Poland....

Reacting with shock the Poles immediately set about real reforms...(including) a codified contitution , not only the first in Europe ...modled after that of the United States...Catherine saw (this) as a threat to ther autocratic rule...invaded...completely eliminating any vestige of Poland as a nation....

Empires rise and empires fall. Like its predecessors, Poland has its day in the sun. It shone like a beacon throughout Eastern Europe, and its influence was felt throughout the continent. It had a commitment to education;... its ordinary citizens were literate when much of Europe was not. It was characterized by its passion for liberty; religious freedom was availbale to all. It had a system of codified laws, of courts, of local self government, not known elsewhere; when kingdoms were the order of the day, it had a republican form of government... and in the 18th century it was the only country in the world, second to that of the US, to have a written constitution
Continued

War crimes in Somalia
Posted by: jbloggz on Jul 10, 2006 9:29 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
During the Clinton era the marines were sent into this poor country. They very soon left, after their bodies were dragged through the streets behind a truck. But it didn't stop there, the war lords began to be financed heavily by the US in order to keep out the Islamic group from taking power.

Just lately this group has managed to kick out the war lords and of course in doing so have instilled their own laws. This at least has given the country some form of stability. But this is definately not what the USA wants. They don't care who gets killed as long as it's none of theirs. They got burned before and will not let that happen again. Now the war lords are fighting back heavily financed by the USA. Once again this this country faces more murder, attrocities. The fact that the US is supporting the war lords, is blandly reported by the western media and no one, but no one is complaining. Why?
Because Somalia is seen as a basket case.

The fact is the people who are dying and being slaughtered killers are financed by the same kind of war criminals that attacked Iraq. In the same way the US government has nothing to say about Burma and other such countries. It is as much a crime to turn a blind eye to what is going on there as it is to perpetuate the deeds.

This evil is beyond words and it is happening now infront of our very eyes!

» RE: War crimes in Somalia Posted by: Ghoulman
» Poor Somalia Posted by: coldeye
» RE: Poor Somalia, well said. Posted by: Ghoulman
» RE: War crimes in Somalia Posted by: enzolima
Continued
Posted by: Maryanne on Jul 10, 2006 9:39 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"But as empires rise, all empires fall and Poland was no exception. However its' fall was more disasterous in that it did not just lose influence or break into individual nations, it disappeared completely as a political entitity. Partly this was due to being surrounded by hostile countries that nibbled at its borders, who then swallowed up whole territories. These aggessive countries, in pursuit of their own wars, swept over Poland, leaving devestation behind.

However, it was the Poles themselves, who brought the final disaster upon themselves. Fear of losing their independence, freedom and power led to the middle and upper classes electing foreign kings whom they believed they could control. However, many of these kings often had little concern for the well being of Poland and as often used it for their own purposes. Even more significant was the greed and self interest of the Polish upper class whose abuse of the veto power so weakened the ...government that other countries rushed in to gather up the spoils. They blinded themselves to the consequences of their actions until it was too late, and , seeking scapegoats, became intollerant of differences in religion and culture. Their final awakening to the cost of their actions and their desperate attempts at reform came too late. By then Poland was no more. And was not to exist for another century and a half.

The Diaspora was to begin.

There is a lesson to be learned here about the fragility of the Republic form of govenment , and its need for nurturing and protection. There is a further lesson about fear and freed, selfishneess , self interst and power, and a callous disregard tor actions, as well as the flutility of agressive wars."

From "The Making of An American Family"

Many similarities in the US of the 21st Century.

Forget War crimes, let's start with treason
Posted by: Reader11722 on Jul 10, 2006 9:48 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
President Bush violates the 1st Amendment by herding peaceful protestors into cages and pressuring Amazon to drop novels like "America Deceived" by E.A. Blayre III. He violates the 4th Amendment by tapping phones without probable cause. He violates the entire Constitution by engaging in 2 illegal wars based on a false-flag operation known as 9/11.
Support indy media.
Final link (before GWB demands Google Books remove it):
http://www.iuniverse.com/bookstore/
book_detail.asp?&isbn=0-595-38523-0

Justice delayed is Justice denied
Posted by: mom'z the word on Jul 10, 2006 10:54 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I hope we do not have to wait 50 years before Bush and his wachos are brought to justice. Waiting provides an invitation to continue wrongdoing. I say why wait? The longer we wait the more people will die, more suffering. It also sends a message to all wanna be tyrants and dictators that Justice is so slow and cumbersome as to not be a deterrent at all. If every wanna be realizes that it will be decades before they get caught what is to prevent them from genocide and crimes against humanity right now. Nothing stops criminals faster than getting caught. Justice delayed is Justice denied. Do it now.

If the UN security Council wants to set an example of how it treats war crimes and criminals now is the time to piss or get off the pot. Everyone is waiting and watching to see if America gets away with murder. We will see if the UN is politically corrupt and is influenced by Americas money and power. If the UN is above all that then what an excellent opportunity to show how justice is unaffected by money or power and only concerned with the moral equivalent to the difference between right and wrong.

Is America, Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice, and the Wolf pack above the law? Who does the UN answer to? The proof is in the pudding means start the damn process and lets see who is at fault and responsible. If the idea is to bring wrongdoers to justice and therefore stop the killing and death then what the hell is the UN waiting for? Bush and Bush alone sent the order to invade Iraq. We have proof of this on tape. America was an eye witness to the declaration. Dead soldiers tell no lies. Is the UN Afraid of what America and its political power can do? Now is the time to see what this world is coming to.

The final solution
Posted by: solrev on Jul 10, 2006 10:59 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I guess I must be one of your trolls because it seems to me that while your comments may be true about Bush they are also irrelevant. Spying on the American people means nothing to the average American. “I do not do anything illegal so let them spy”, that is unfortunately how most Americans think. “Wars and rumors of wars”, is Gods will every body knows that. Nothing is going to happen to Bush because he or they can win and be the heroes anytime they want (spin to win). The refusal of the dems to make a positive preemptive strike against the reps is disgusting. Rallying the dem base with Bush bashing even if justified will accomplish nothing. I can not wait to see the comments on this web site at this time next year after the spin to win campaign is successful. Until the dems start running on a democratic manifesto in place of trying to get elected change is unlikely. We are the puppets and there is very little that we can do until they are ready to leave a bankrupt America. The sooner the better.

Yes. Bush could be prosecuted for war crimes under international criminal law!
Posted by: fool-on-the-hill on Jul 10, 2006 11:00 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The International Criminal Court (ICC) was instituted primarily for the purpose of holding LEADERS accountable for crimes against humanity initiated by those leaders. The ICC's jurisdiction does not extend to crimes commited before the ICC's inception (prior to July 1, 2002); nor does it extend to any crimes where another Court already has jurisdiction to prosecute the crimes in question. Unfortunately, although the Nuremburg Tribunal prosecuted "agressive war" as a war crime, that is not among the crimes punishable by the ICC. (The U.S. was instrumental in that omission, which says a lot right there doesn't it?).

HOWEVER, atrocities CONCOMITANT with agressive war (e.g., rape, torture, deliberate destruction of infrastructure needed to sustain life (like water, power, etc.), murder of civilians, etc., ARE crimes within the jurisdiction of the ICC.

The U.S. has an extensive system of well established courts that SHOULD be adequate for all foreseeable circumstances. Atrocities committed by U.S. soldiers fall within the jurisdiction of Courts Martial; "high crimes and misdemeanors" committed by U.S. Presidents or other elected officials are punishable by impeachment in the Senate, etc. Consequently, NO AMERICAN, much less an American President, should need to worry about ending up in the dock at the ICC.

Well, the U.S. military (bless 'em!) seems willing to fire up the courts martial system where the evidence demands it. The stories about the Haditha massacre, and the apalling gang-rape-murder of a 15-yr-old, followed by the slaughter of her family (!), were too much to ignor. The perpetrators of those acts are being held accountable (we hope)---perhaps because these hideous crimes have greatly increased the danger to ALL our troops. So, the MILITARY judicial system is stepping up to its responsibilities.

HOWEVER, the @#$%* Repugnican SENATE wouldn't impeach BUSH & Company, IF THE B*STARDS HAD RAPED THAT IRAQI TEENAGER, OR SHOT THAT IRAQI TODDLER, THEMSELVES!!! The Democrats are not likely to do it either!

AND, where the existing Court having jurisdiction is either unable, OR UNWILLING, to exercise its jurisdiction to prosecute crimes against humanity, THE ICC DOES HAVE JURISDICTION!

Make no mistake, THAT is the real reason GWB placed the undermining of the ICC at the top of his things-to-do list when he managed to steal the presidency the 1st time! It was never about protecting "American servicement" [sic] from "politically motivated" prosecution. IT WAS (AND IS) ALL ABOUT PROTECTING HIMSELF AND HIS CRONIES FROM HAVING TO ANSWER FOR THEIR DELIBERATE AND CALCULATED WAR CRIMES! Neither was it Bush-the-1st that GWB was worried about; any "crimes" of a previous administration were prior to the ratification date of the ICC (that's why the ICC can't prosecute Sadam, either).

No, our boy "W" needed to trash the ICC because of crimes HE, HIMSELF, was planning!

So, the good news is that THE LEGAL SYSTEM EXISTS to hold these monsters accountable. The bad news is that "we the people" have to muster the political will to see to it that it is done.

Could Michael Jackson be prosecuted....
Posted by: Asses of Evil on Jul 10, 2006 11:15 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
for eccentricity?

Prosecution and enforcement may prove difficult, but..
Posted by: Pooty T on Jul 10, 2006 11:34 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
For what it's worth, the administration was indicted in March 04 by an INTERNATIONAL CRIMINAL TRIBUNAL FOR AFGHANISTAN, TOKYO.

Tokyo War Crimes Indictment Against George W. Bush

Bush IS guilty...
Posted by: tap17x on Jul 10, 2006 12:01 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...because he started a war, killing thousands with no end in sight, for PERSONAL reasons, in other words, he just felt like it. However neurotic, stupid, and crazy he obviously is, his crime is unforgivable. Because It is the same type (although not of the same magnitude) as the Nazis, he should be tried and hanged like they were. He is a mass murderer, more dangerous than Saddam ever was. Hanging or life in prison with no parole would be the final refutation of his destructive pathological narcissism.

» Doggone it, Cyclone,,, Posted by: John Rice
Such Trial will not Happen. This is Day Dreaming
Posted by: eyeman on Jul 10, 2006 2:06 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There were war crimes. But this kind of thing is like day dreaming because

1. The US is too powerful for any other country to conduct a trial.
2. The Right wing is too strong to allow this. People elected this government twice, in 00 and in 04.
3. They hold absolute power in all three branches of government. And the Media.
4. There was an international coalition (however weak) Terrorism hurt many other countries too.
5. The US try torture soldiers (however low rank only) involved (They get a slap on the wrist).
So who is going to conduct this trial ?

timan
Posted by: tinman on Jul 10, 2006 3:06 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
He's been looking a little worried lately must be a reason for that.

Get it straight
Posted by: liberazi on Jul 10, 2006 3:17 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The US makes the rules. We don't have to follow them.

At the end of WWII, there were no laws on the books by which we could prosecute the Nazis. So we invented "war crimes" and "crimes against humanity" after the end of WWII so we could have a law by which we could legally kill the Nazis.

These concepts of crimes against humanity eventually led us to the modern concepts of human rights, civil rights, etc.

But if we are now going to have our laws used against our own leaders, well then, to hell with civil rights, human rights, war crimes and crimes against humanity. We make the rules, and we can change them or delete them anytime it fits our cause. Because you see, we are above the law. We are Americans.

We make the laws so we can kill other people within the law, but those same laws can never be used against us. If they could be used against us, that would be like equal justice under the law, and everyone knows that would be totally un-American. Why that's just crazy talk.

THE SOURCE OF CORRUPTION IN ALL FORMS IS CLASS DESPOTISM
Posted by: Perfectclue on Jul 10, 2006 4:16 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
THE ORIGINAL INTENT OF THE ENLIGHTENMENT, REASON AND SOCIAL UNIVERSAL MOVEMENTS, THEIR HEIRS, MARXIST, SOCIALIST, DEMOCRATIC MOVEMENTS, CREATED SOCIAL THEORY, AND MECHANISMS, OR MEANS THROUGH THE NATION STATE TO PROMOTE SOCIAL GROWTH, SOCIAL JUSTICE, WHOSE PRINCIPLE WAS INCLUSION, UNIVERSAL STANDARDS, NOT EXCLUSION, CLASS STANDARDS.

AND WHO DO YOU THINK PROPAGANDIZED THE AMERIKAN PUBLIC INTO THE PRINCIPLE OF AMERIKAN "EXCEPTIONALISM"??, CLASS NATIONALISM, THE CLASS IDEOLOGY, OF CORPORATE MEDIA THUGS, WHO ARE PART OF THE CORRUPTED SERVILE MIDDLE LAYERS PROMOTING CLASS STANDARDS, CRIMINALITY!!!!---PERFECT CLUE

www.911insidejob.net
Posted by: Bushguiltyof911 on Jul 10, 2006 5:49 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Of course, Bush and many of the people in his administration are guilty of war crimes, treason and mass murder.Please go to my web site indicated above where I have hundreds of articles and streaming videos showing the lies and deceptions of the 9/11 Commission and all of the treasonous crimes of the Bush administration.

Joe, Webmaster
www.bushguiltyof911.com
www.911insidejob.net

» RE: www.911insidejob.net Posted by: prod
Choked at the USA
Posted by: Melvin on Jul 10, 2006 6:00 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
GW Bush will never be prosecuted. The Neocons may be a bunch of A'Holes but are not stupid.
With the changes to the legal system & extra, tax break, monies in their pockets NO ONE will be able to pursue them.
Bush is not the first nor the last US executive, in my opinion,
that will travel overseas with a team of international lawyers!!

Trolls and other vermin
Posted by: srqwolf on Jul 10, 2006 9:20 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think as long as you want to maintain a completely open forum, you have got only two choices: 1. You can keep things as they are, and revel in the confusion of it all, or 2. Everyone must maintain some sort of puritanical discipline and never respond the provocations of a churlish troll.

Since the latter scenario is unlikely to unfold, one is left with the question of whether to maintain an open forum. As unappealing as this choice might sound to progressives - and other species of civilized life - it can be managed.

When I was a graduate student, we had a similar problem on the listserv for the teaching assistants' union. A gaggle of neolib / neocon twits from the business college, who clearly did not have enough serious academic work to keep themselves busy, were constantly hijacking discussions, starting off topic flames, launching personal attacks, and generally causing all round unpleasantness.

The solution we found was to have two different fora - one for union business and topical discussion conducted by academic standards of civil discourse (this was at university), and another that was open. In the first forum, you could be banned after two warnings - even for off topic posting. In the second, you would basically have had to use obscenity or engage in criminal behaviour to be banned.

Surprisingly, this worked quite well; but we did have a group of volunteers that was willing to monitor discussions. I'm not sure Alternet has the time or resources to devote to this sort of scheme, but they might want to consider it if the troll infestation gets to be much worse.

» RE: Trolls and other vermin Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Trolls and other vermin Posted by: enzolima
» AlterNet rocks! Posted by: aurora2484
» RE: AlterNet rocks! Posted by: srqwolf
» RE: AlterNet rocks! Posted by: aurora2484
» RE: AlterNet rocks! Posted by: srqwolf
» The Format Helps ... Posted by: AdamSelene40
» RE: The Format Helps ... Posted by: aurora2484
» RE: The Format Helps ... Posted by: srqwolf
Argument with my husband
Posted by: paulaH on Jul 10, 2006 9:44 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
My hubby and I had a tiff this evening that touched on some of this. Basically, he said that Iran is now being led by a crazy man who will not hesitate to use a nuclear bomb. I agreed. Where we disagreed was that I said if I were like him and had the US threatening me and after seeing what the US did to my neighbor, I, too, would use the bomb.

My husband thought this was terrible. He said, "He's crazy and he has the nuclear bomb at his disposal. He's liable to just send it our way whether we attack or not."

My reply? "You mean he will basically do the same thing to us as we did to Iraq? He's crazy, yes, but so are our leaders. Bush and company are even crazier because if they truly believe Iran has nuclear capabilities and are still rattling their sabres at the country, they must know the crazy in charge over there will use those nukes on us. So who's crazier? We have crazies in charge over here and crazies in charge over there. Do you really believe our crazies are responsible enough to keep from using our nuclear weapons at any given time? Hell, our crazies are so irresponsible they say no one else should be able to have the technology and at the same time call for OUR scientists to hone OUR nuclear technology and come up with bigger and badder weapons. And you really think these nuts are less likely to push that button than the Iranian nuts? Not likely."

Now, my husband is not a Bush supporter and usually we see eye to eye on this. I find he tends to spout this stuff when he's been watching too much CNN.

He did call me unamerican. I contend that if standing up for what is right is unAmerican, I am in good company. In not allowing Bush and company free rein, I stand with the likes of George Washington, Benjamin Franklin, and Thomas Jefferson. If they were alive today, I think they would be the first ones to lead the charge(es) against the Bush regime.

» RE: Argument with my husband Posted by: Joshua Holland
BUSH ON TRIAL?
Posted by: VZEQICVA on Jul 11, 2006 7:02 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Mr Bush is protected by a system that is too complex and defies definition. He is covered at every angle and can't be touched. Congress & the Senate are paralyzed. His best allies are the American people who can't take time from their busy lives to find out what's going on in the first place. Anyone who can lie a country into a war without consequences is free to do what he pleases. We can change this. We have it in writing but I don't see it happening.Too bad. Thanks, ANNA

Hitler was responsible, so is Bush
Posted by: enzolima on Jul 11, 2006 9:05 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
He's the commander in chief, he the decider, he WILL be held accountable either by a jury of his peers or int eh history books, same as Hitler.

BUSH, ROVE, & PROPAGANDA
Posted by: krose on Jul 11, 2006 12:59 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
BUSH & ROVE HAVE ALWAYS PAID FOR PROPAGANDA, & THE INTERNET IS NO EXCEPTION! There has been a major increase in "TROLL" presence on Progressive Sites in recent months. They could only control the press to a certain degree, and for a limited amount of time. Everyone saw what happened to the New York Times last week. The administration has finally lost control of that media outlet, even that one which had enabled the entry into their "beautiful little" war of "choice!" So now they have stepped up their attempts to control the internet. There have always been RIGHT-WING TROLLS, but now we have "ARMYS OF TROLLS" on our sites with which to contend. These PAID- EMPLOYEE PROPAGANDISTS attempt to DISTRACT & DIVERT, even if they cannot change "hearts & minds (which of course they could never do with us!) They have made themselves a complete NUISANCE on the 'Huffington Post," as well.
OUR GOAL: TO IGNORE THEM! BY DOING THAT, THEY CANNOT DO THEIR JOB, & WE WIN! THIS IS IMPERATIVE! WE CANNOT ANSWER THEM AT ALL. JUST PRETEND THAT THEY DO NOT EXIST! ACTUALLY THEY DO NOT EXIST. THEY ARE NOT WHO THEY PRETEND TO BE. THEY ARE MERE BALD-FACED LIARS, SOCIOPATHIC PERSONALITIES, & CON-MEN!

New Whack a Troll Strategy
Posted by: AdamSelene40 on Jul 11, 2006 2:55 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The game of Whack A Troll is scored by the ratio of posting to response. A successful troll racks up many LONG thoughtful replies in return for each quick and dirty Troll dropping.

Since Liberals generally insist on sharing their unique personal insights and observations on everything -- the Troll almost always wins.

The Bloggers' strategy, therefore should be to do no more than 'cover the spread' -- that is, try to tip the ratio between their posts and Troll posts.

The key to this is "Don't Pile On" ... each Troll post merits (at most) a single post of equal or lesser length.

Of course, "Troll Alerts" have their place as well. *I'm* not volunteering for the job of posting them ... but it's inevitable that screen names will emerge whose judgment is trustworthy.

If, as we are told, Trolls are piece-workers, let's try to make the work less remunerative.

» RE: New Whack a Troll Strategy Posted by: Conservasaurus
A Nuremberg Case Stronger tha n the Iraq Case
Posted by: PGC on Jul 11, 2006 4:22 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The stronger case is that of what Bush is doing to thousands of people with those microwave or scalar EM (?) weapons being takgeted at the minds and lives of these victims. Its the sort of stuff they wanted go after Mengele for. But Mengele escaped to Brazil/ Argentina. What is Buhs' and those folk's escape? Read below. Beware you are also guilty. Figure out how. Read.

What is the analogy between the situation in North Korea and the situation in the USA and the other Western Democracies? Can any one see the analogy?

In North Korea, the political class ( intelligentsia if you will) cannot debate or mention their country’s nuclear weapon/ missile program its leader/leadership has chosen to embark upon while its population starves.

In the USA and the other Western Democracies , their political class cannot or refuses , or thinks it cannot mention much less openly debate, the many hi-tech
Microwave/scalar electromagnetics black-ops programs the USA Government and other governments of these Western democracies have embarked upon.

Programs in violation of individual rights. In violation of constitutions. Programs with no legal due process of law. Programs that no lawmaker would ever even think of introducing a bill to do legally because they know before hand just how wrong and immoral these programs are, and for which they could never find open support, except for maybe among skin-heads, Nazis and the like.

And these Western political classes are just like the North Koreans. Silent and in step. Outwardly in step and maybe inwardly, who knows. Closed to a similar group-think. They both refuse to discuss/confront their respective governments as each of these governments embarks on its own different form of madness.

It is no doubt that the political class in North Korea lives in fear. If the political class in the USA and the Western democracies also live in fear, they only have to organize themselves en mass to throw this yoke off. The longer they wait the harder it will become as those wielding the yoke become more entrenched, their systems of control more pervasive , more top heavy and more reinforced.
The growing evil will only make the rot deeper, and the rot of your souls deeper, the longer you wait

For the North Koreans it is probably too late for them to remove their yoke without external assistance. For us , it is not yet too late.

The North Korea situation also illustrates how serious and committed the USA yoke wielders are. These same microwave/ scalar EM weapons can surely take out a missile especially in the launch phase since the weapons are mainly satellite based, I suspect. Yet, the US Government/Bush Administration are willing to spend billions of dollars on a missile based anti-missile system just to be able to keep those microwave/scalar EM weapons classified and thus their nefarious black ops programs against their own populations , and others, classified, using these as tools of enslavement for their grip on power.

This is how committed they are to their enslavement program. Billions for a useless camouflage just to ensure those weapons for their enslavement programs.
YOU MUST ORGANIZE TO ACT NOW!

Can you help me find the author of a quote
Posted by: decoman on Jul 11, 2006 4:25 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is my first time writing to a blog forum so please be gentle. I am trying to find the author of a particular quote that had a profound affect on me. I lost the clipping from the newspaper that ran it.

It is as follows,"The Democratic agenda taken to its ultimate extreme is Socialism. The Republican agenda taken to its ultimate extreme is Naziism."

I'd appreciate any help that you can give.

» decoman Posted by: decoman
The UN is irrelevant
Posted by: killtheun on Jul 11, 2006 6:59 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Sounds to me like like just a bunch of more reasons to abandon this vile, evil, corrupt, & anti-american entity. Kill the UN!

America the Cynical
Posted by: Polenium on Jul 11, 2006 7:44 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
One of the most disturbing things about the Bush administration is its seemingly magical ability to nuetralize restraint and avoid consequences.

The opposition party has morhphed into the lapdog party, happily following Bush even when he is hell bent on committing war crimes.

The Justice department is run by the Bush's family council because the US Senate overwhelmingly supported Bush's nepotism and disrespected the balance of powers.

The FBI and the CIA have been nuetered by Bush cronyism. Even independent council, Patrick Fitzgerald seems to have withdrawn any effort to prosecute those who illegally authorized rolling up Valerie Plame's WMD network.

People have begun to believe the administration's assertions that they can do whatever they want, no matter how insane or bloody their actions are, and never pay a price for their catastrophic crimes.

Instead of forecasting more unrestrained lawlessness, we should be demanding to know why none of our institutions and agencies are functional.
We should be moving toward dissolving a government that not only is a burden to its people, but has become a global threat.

When America is viewed as the number one obstacle to world peace, its a huge mistake to ignore our responsibilities as citizens.
It is self defeating to ignore the ability of ordinary citizens to organize themselves and create change.

resetnow.blogspot.com

I hope like HELL he can
Posted by: thinkverybig on Jul 11, 2006 9:02 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I sure hope that this nut can be prosecuted for WAR CRIMES and CRIMES against HUMANITY.

What law: "We don't need no stinking law."
Posted by: pjrsullivan on Jul 12, 2006 1:00 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The current regime views force as the "True Law," and intends to continue to run the death squads full throttle until all of the opposition is dead.

A fact pointed out already is that to bring a war criminal in for trial, the war criminal must first be defeated. This has indeed already happened, unbeknown-st to the mass of the human race.

Our nuclear war criminal leadership in April of 1947 made the decision to destroy the mass of the human race with the use of nuclear weapons. This is when the intervention into our world by certain "Unknown Higher level powers," began.

This intervention according to Derek Dempster, a member of British Intelligence, constitutes a state of war between our High contracting parties, and powers that are from some other world.

According to Dempster: "Flying Saucers have turned from surveillance to aggressive action.....And any such action constitutes a state of Interplanetary war.... It is a war without precedence, without land armies and minus the conventional bombs and rockets used to destroy cities. Such a war, so phantasmal, could well exist under a tight censorship and no one save a few military heads would know of it as fact or its scope. Pilots scrambled to intercept UFOs might also be ignorant of this fact even though they were participating perilously in defense action, while innocently in the conspiracy.
Derek Dempster former member of British intelligence quoted in Flying Saucer Review 1955.

This is why the fact of the existence of these Higher level powers remains classified "Above Top Secret" until today.

These higher level powers have repeatedly blocked the launch of nuclear weapons upon the human race, and as such, have physically defeated our nuclear war criminal elite.

Bush is but a front man for our enemy nuclear war criminal elite. At the moment that humanity awakens to what they have done to us, they will all fall in front of properly constituted war crimes tribunals.

If we examine the concept of force as being the "True Law," then the actions of the "Higher level powers" could be construed to be of a superior nature than our nuclear elites. The "ET" have defeated attempts to exterminate us. Our simple brutal human nuclear war criminal elitists have indeed been defeated. They have been physically defeated by "ET," and as such are now suitable for war crimes prosecution.

.

So, What's Your Point?
Posted by: Lefty Fukwitz on Jul 12, 2006 2:37 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"We are penned in by the arrogant idea that this country is the center of the universe, exceptionally virtuous, admirable, superior."

Compared to everyone else we are the center of the universe, exceptionally virtuous and admirably superior. If there's another contender for that title please let them step up and make their case, otherwise...STFU.

» RE: So, What's Your Point? Posted by: rozrocks
List of who is complicit
Posted by: nbrown on Jul 12, 2006 9:36 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Those complicit can be found in this list of Iraq war votes.

War Crimes
Posted by: Tom Degan on Jul 13, 2006 2:11 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It shouldn't be a question of "Could Bush be prosecuted for war crimes". He must and HE WILL be prosecuted for war crimes.

This is the worst criminal ever to sleep in the White House. This is the most corrupt administration in American history. Think about it....Do you remember the Nixon gang? Choirboys compared to these hideous bastards and bitches (Hi, Condi!)

When this is all over, alot of people, including George W. Bush and Dick Cheney will be rotting in federal prison. I live for that thought.

Pray for peace.

Tom Degan
Goshen, NY
Tom Degan's Daily Rant

» RE: War Crimes Posted by: ccbite
» RE: War Crimes Posted by: Pickles78
War Crimes
Posted by: Tom Degan on Jul 13, 2006 2:11 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It shouldn't be a question of "Could Bush be prosecuted for war crimes". He must and HE WILL be prosecuted for war crimes.

This is the worst criminal ever to sleep in the White House. This is the most corrupt administration in American history. Think about it....Do you remember the Nixon gang? Choirboys compared to these hideous bastards and bitches (Hi, Condi!)

When this is all over, alot of people, including George W. Bush and Dick Cheney will be rotting in federal prison. I live for that thought.

Pray for peace.

Tom Degan
Goshen, NY
Tom Degan's Daily Rant

This is why insurrection may be the only answer
Posted by: truthteller on Jul 13, 2006 11:24 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If Tricky Dick was allowed to rehab his reputation and become an "Elder Statesman" by the end of his life, and the same for the totally amoral Henry Kissinger, then what makes you think that a more just fate awaits Dubya after the Presidency?

No, I fear that he and the rest of his cabal will go on to futher milk the public on corporate boards and in other ways unless there is finally a People's revolt against this bunch. How much abuse are the American people going to put up with before they say "ENOUGH!". I'm afraid they will put up with it until it is too late; until the cabal has acheived total control and totally quashes dissent. This is why those who truly care about the rights and dignity of all peoples need to seriously consider preparing for armed rebellion and insurrection when we find that we cannot win a fair election, because we will not be permitted to have them anymore.

You'll know when you see things like Ken Blackwell pulling off a "miraculous" win in Ohio, even though he is many points behind his opponent. Look for the signs. The average person is not going to believe the truth of this theft of democracy, because they believe that a representative government is a settled issue in this country. They think that the Founder's warnings about eternal vigilance to protect democracy is quaint history. Those of us who realize the truth must prepare to exercise our Second Amendment rights before it is too late!

Good related article
Posted by: srqwolf on Jul 13, 2006 4:13 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Troll Headquarters Alert
Posted by: doinaheckuvajob on Jul 14, 2006 2:03 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The most chilling comment on this entire posting was:


Italics War Crimes Trials? Treason Trials for Lefties More Likely.
Posted by: knocko on Jul 10, 2006 7:01 AM [Report this comment]
The problem these frustrated children have is that they lack the patience under the American system to wait four years for the opportunity to change leaders. Ironically, the last President was hardly a flaming liberal, and reveled in his cuts(good for him) in wasteful social programs. And he launched an unprovoked war against Serbia, bombed Iraq, and advocated the same kind of take out Saddaam action based on perceived WMD as Bush.

Fact: the USA will never again have a real "liberal" or social democrat President or Congress.

The question for the future will be whether we have moderate conservatives like McCain or a more authoriatarian promilitary regime devoted to border security and national defense against Islamist invasion and cultural degredation.

If we have a depression, I'll bet on the authoritarian regime. Well, the lefties wont be able to complain about that govt, or anything else. they will be repairing oil pipelines in ANWAR!


Alternet.org needs to start thinking about what to do about this site being overrun by trolls. It won't be long before almost all the comments are nothing but troll comments.

» Call in Tolkien Posted by: Burton
Mice voting
Posted by: Burton on Jul 14, 2006 10:20 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is just another chapter in the 3000 year old futile game of the Mice voting to bell the Cat. Exactly how would Bush be arrested and brought to trial?

I'm not losing any sleep over this one.

Rock and Roll, lets do it!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by: Pepper on Jul 15, 2006 11:25 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Ooops, no one is filing charges???? Not even in the world community??? Guess not, huh? We deserve what ever we get. He is able to do what he is doing because we let him. If we made half the stink about Iraq invasion as we made about illegal immigration, he might be impeached right now.

Don't point the finger at anyone else, we are the culprits and I sadly fear we will pay in the end for this. It won't be pretty either. Just ask the residents of Dresden, all 500,000 civilians that died, unarmed in the bombing daily of that city.

That is what happens when you scare the world to death. Its also what happens when you let the bankers control the world rather than the peoples elected representatives.

Uh Oh! A Good Conservative Argument!!!
Posted by: vibral on Jul 15, 2006 12:15 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Note to all intelligent and fact-armed lefty and righty bloggers::

Near the end of the "Along with Cheney, Rumsfield, and Addington" thread, there's some pretty damn solid fact-based conservative arguments posted by CW4RETIRED. No left-heads have yet given any equally fact-based responses, and I think it's a shame. I've posted there, but didn't want it to be missed (since it's a day old)-- please stop by and argue out... I need to see more facts to support my liberal views, especially b/c CW4's points are so compelling.

POPE JOHN PAUL II SUSPECTED GEORGE W. BUSH
Posted by: SALLY EVANS on Jul 15, 2006 12:36 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
According to investigative reporter who reported from a Catholic newspaper, Pope John Paul II said that he believed that George W. Bush had foreknowledge of the 911 attacks.. The Pope also warned Bush NOT to invade Iraq. But Bush ignored the Pope and Donald Rumsfeld who was friends with Saddam Hussein snickered as he rained down on innocent Iraqls his "SHOCK AND AWE" CLUSTER BOMBS. We are no longer a proud country but too many ignorant dominated by a LYING IDIOT!

Ironic. Ain't it
Posted by: Gazza126 on Jul 15, 2006 10:55 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is a sad comment on the state of America's so-called democracy that Bill Clinton was almost impeached for having a relatively innocuous tryst with a White House intern, while a government that lied its way into an illegal, preemptive war stands unchallenged.

America, where are your priorities?

» RE: Ironic. Ain't it Posted by: tinman
» RE: Ironic. Ain't it Posted by: CW4RETIRED
What do they know that we don't?
Posted by: shangrilalad on Jul 16, 2006 9:12 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If Republicans are concerned about losing power in the coming election, they sure don’t show it. They’ve got the pedal to the metal, and their bulldozer policy of crushing all dissent and Bush’s efforts to increase his power are roaring along the road to authoritarianism with frightening determination. If they are truly worried about voters cleaning house, one would think Republicans would back-off a bit.

Since that isn’t happening, one might conclude that they know something we don’t.

The mug shots were admittedly titillating
Posted by: owleyes on Jul 16, 2006 9:36 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So now Bush just has to be indicted. It doesn't matter what nobodies like us think, and the opinions of a few legal scholars, however eminent, doesn't turn the tide. If the case against him were really so solid, he probably would have been indicted or at least investigated by now.

Toy poodle wearing a spiked pit-bull collar.
Posted by: shangrilalad on Jul 16, 2006 1:21 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Bush demonstrates the dangers of giving power to a weakling. He is mentally, morally and spiritually weak and placing him in position of unlimited power has created a Frankenstein monster devoid of rationality or conscience. Personally weak and dimly aware of it, he is full of bravado, mistaking designated power for personal power. Bush flouts the mantle of presidential power like a toy poodle wearing a spiked pit-bull collar. He is ridiculous.

FDR was physically weak, but a powerful man and leader.

It’s a tragedy so many Americans don’t know the difference.

Bush can and should be prosecuted
Posted by: Len Hart on Jul 16, 2006 1:55 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The case against George W. Bush is at least as well documented as the case against Hermann Goering at the first Nuremberg trial prosecuted by US Supreme Court Justice Robert Jackson. Bush himself order US troops into Iraq, a nation that had not invaded or, in any substantial or military way, threatened the United States. The Nuremberg Principles recognize an "imminent threat" as justification for war. Iraq was NOT —emphatically NOT —an imminent. Clearly, Bush had hoped that find WMD would let him off the hook. No WMD's means Bush is not off the hook. The numerous Downing Street memos, meanwhile, are more damning than was the memo Robert Jackson cited to link Hermann Goering to the Final Solution.

The invasion itself is, therefore, a war of aggression under Nuremberg. Moreover, Bush will bear personal responsibility for having consented and/or ordered a campaign of torture, illegal detainment and other violations of Geneva. Refer to the Hamdan case. Additionally, see: An Emerging Pattern of U.S. War Crimes and Atrocities in Iraq Suggests a Heinous Policy

The legal case against Bush is almost overwhelming. There is no lack of evidence. The biggest obstacle facing a prosecutor is distilling it all down into a case that is at once comprehensible and damning. Another factor: it is not the case or lack of one that will determine whether or not Bush will stand trial for capital crimes; it is, rather, the political will to do so.

Finally, if Bush is guilty of any one of the Nuremberg Principles involving death to the "victim", then Bush is also prosecutable in US courts for violation of US Codes 18 > § 2441. This makes the death of any victim of a war crime a capital crime. There is abundant evidence that the Bush administration had planned to commit war crimes and, clearly, the case can be made with admissable evidence that Bush participated in the planning. One rightly suspects Bush's motives. Even before the U.S. invasion of Iraq, before the attack on Afghanistan, Tom DeLay sponsored legislation that exempted U.S. soldiers from war crimes prosecution at the International Tribunal at the Hague. Did anyone in Congress stop to ask why? Were we planning to commit crimes for which we sought exemption from prosecution? Wasn't it clear to any thinking person what Bush was up to? Are we not the good guys? [Amendment to H.R. 1646, The Foreign Relations Authorization Act of 2001]

The Bush administration has indulged various circumlocutions to avoid war crimes trials. Bush's chief apologist, Alberto Gonzales was tasked to research various rationales to make legal —ex post facto —acts that are prohibited by Nuremberg. This record speaks to the issue of intent. ...more than 3,000 suspected terrorists have been arrested in many countries. Many others have met a different fate. Let's put it this way -- they are no longer a problem to the United States and our friends and allies.-George W. Bush, State of the Union Address, January 2003This statement must be soberly examined; note that Bush refers to 3,000 suspects. Yet —he smirks that "...they have met a different fate." He boasts that "...they are no longer a problem to the United States...".The MSM has failed to cover the staggering scope of the charges that may ultimately be leveled against the person of George W. Bush.

Bush is in serious, serious trouble.

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