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Anti-Choice Legislators Have Gone Too Far

By Nancy Keenan, TomPaine.com. Posted June 21, 2006.


Let's be honest. Anti-choice legislators have gone too far -- and on June 6th, most Americans seemed to agree.

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Editor's Note: On March 6, 2006, South Dakota Governor Mike Rounds enacted a statewide abortion ban scheduled to take effect on July 1. In response, Planned Parenthood formed a powerful campaign, Stand Up South Dakota, to collect enough signatures to stop the ban's enforcement by adding it the state ballot in November. They succeeded in temporarily preventing the ban, but still need help to avert it from being passed in the fall.

If the recent June 6 primary is viewed as an early preview of this year's midterm elections, pro-choice Americans have much to celebrate. Not only was choice a positive issue in many of the races, but candidates throughout the country used their pro-choice values of freedom and privacy to cultivate a winning message.

Let's be honest. Anti-choice legislators have gone too far. South Dakota's governor signed a law criminalizing abortion. Louisiana's governor just signed a new ban on abortion. Ohio's legislature held a hearing to debate an abortion ban. And another 11 states have considered or are considering bills that would outlaw abortion in all or most circumstances. But we saw on June 6 that Americans are tired of these divisive attacks on a woman's right to choose.

Take Iowa for example. In Iowa's 1st Congressional District, NARAL Pro-Choice America-endorsed candidate Bruce Braley won a hotly contested primary by using his strong pro-choice message to put his anti-choice opponents on the defensive. In the weeks leading up to the primary, Braley even released a television ad quoting his opponent Rick Dickinson saying "he would do all he could to rescind Roe v. Wade and 'end abortion in this country as we know it.'"

 In Iowa's Democratic primary for governor, Secretary of State Chet Culver's strong stance on choice exposed his opponent Mike Blouin's attempts to dodge the issue.

 According to The New York Times, Chet Culver "made his support for abortion rights a central issue of the campaign, raising doubts about Mr. Blouin's stance."

"A woman's right to choose is under assault, and people in this state are absolutely worried," Culver said. "This has become a very important issue in this state and in the state races around the country."

Blouin--who had co-sponsored a constitutional amendment banning abortion as a member of Congress--tried to defuse his anti-choice record, but he failed to persuade either side.

"Now you have a pro-life pro-choicer," said  David Yepsen, the political columnist for The Des Moines Register. "I don't think either side is happy with him."

In Montana the pro-choice president of the state senate, Jon Tester, won a decisive victory in his party's primary to face embattled incumbent anti-choice Sen. Conrad Burns. In New Jersey, Sen. Robert Menendez's strong record in support of women's freedom and privacy will further strengthen his support from voters in the Garden State.

Why are pro-choice candidates winning? Because they are not only using these egregious bans on abortion to put their opponents on the defense, they are also introducing voters to their commonsense message of increasing access to birth control, including the "morning-after" pill, providing honest, age-appropriate sex education and better family-planning services for those without health insurance.

Meanwhile, anti-choice politicians in Congress and state legislatures are providing voters with multiple reasons to vote for an alternative this November.

Last month, anti-choice House leaders wouldn't even allow a vote on a common-ground amendment to ensure the "morning-after" pill is made available to military women overseas. Reps. Mike Michaud, D-Maine, and Tim Ryan, D-Ohio, both of whom oppose legal abortion, cosponsored the proposal.

And Senate anti-choice leaders are trying to pass legislation that would, among other things, nullify state laws that ensure insurance plans cover birth control in the same way they cover other prescription medication like Viagra. If Congress and the president enact this law, 25 states' laws that protect women's access to birth control could be overridden. Further, legislators in 18 states--Alabama, Georgia, Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York, Oklahoma, Rhode Island, South Dakota, Tennessee, Vermont, Washington, West Virginia, and Wisconsin--are considering or have considered measures that would allow pharmacies or pharmacists to refuse to fill women's prescriptions for birth control.

Worse yet, in the states with recently passed abortion bans, Louisiana and South Dakota, the same politicians who want to outlaw abortion have repeatedly voted against measures to expand access to emergency contraception.

Here's the dilemma for anti-choice politicians. Not only are they pushing extreme and divisive bans to criminalize abortion, but they're blocking commonsense measures that would prevent unintended pregnancies and reduce the need for abortion. Their actions have exposed their hypocrisy and hostility toward the fundamental values of freedom and privacy. In select races on June 6, voters answered them by electing strong pro-choice candidates.

We will continue to mobilize our network of nearly one million pro-choice activists in all 50 states to work toward similar results in races for Congress and the state legislatures this November.

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Nancy Keenan is president of NARAL Pro-Choice America.

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NARAL LIES
Posted by: resistance6 on Jun 21, 2006 1:57 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Anti Choice? What choice do these people offer the unborn babies?

If the babies did have a choice, do you think they would choose to give up their lives, to have their heads ripped off their bodies, their arms and legs twisted away?

Anybody ever seen pictures of these little ones after the abortionist gets through with them? The babies who thought they were safe and warm in their mothers' womb?

Anybody ever wonder why our nation is on the verge of extinction, why God has turned his back on us, why we are now ruled by criminals who are plotting to put in a permanent dictatorship, who have already managed to slip in a police state right under our noses?

Once the NeoCONs strike Iran, how long do you think it will take for Russia to drop a couple hundred nukes on our country?

But we will go down screaming for our right to abort, right to the last breath, won't we America?

Our only hope is God. But why would he listen to us when we are such barbarians to be murdering our own unborn?

Planned Parenthood, NARAL and other wicked people have insisted on your right to kill these babies all these years. Since 1973 every year we have had 1.5 million babies murdered. And NARAL's blood lust is not satiated.

What idiocy.

Click below for THE OTHER SIDE, the side the controlled media has never told. Maybe then you can tell AlterNet to keep NARAL and its filthy lies off the Alternetroster, along with NAMBLA and some other degenerate groups. If you were willing to look at the pictures of Iraqis killed, wounded and tortured which are featured in a recent Alternet article, check out these pictures of what we're doing to our own children right here in America .

CLICK HERE FOR THE REAL TRUTH ABOUT ABORTION. NARAL LIES.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» uh oh Posted by: LMNOP
» RE: uh oh Posted by: resistance6
» RE: uh oh Posted by: doctorsquared
» RE: uh oh Posted by: LMNOP
» RE: NARAL LIES Posted by: fork
» AD HOC MORALITY Posted by: LMNOP
» RE: AD HOC MORALITY Posted by: resistance6
» RE: AD HOC MORALITY Posted by: peacefulaim
» RE: NARAL LIES Posted by: PickleBarrel
» RE: NARAL LIES Posted by: celticsweetgrass
» RE: NARAL LIES Posted by: resistance6
» RE: NARAL LIES Posted by: PickleBarrel
» RE: NARAL LIES Posted by: LPB
» RE: NARAL LIES Posted by: celticsweetgrass
» thank you. Posted by: omidele
» Caritas Posted by: feller
» * SIGH * Posted by: sanitysojourner
» RE: * SIGH * Posted by: resistance6
» RE: * SIGH * Posted by: sanitysojourner
» RE: * SIGH * Posted by: resistance6
» Double Sigh Posted by: Aim
» RE: * SIGH * Posted by: sanitysojourner
» RE: * SIGH * Posted by: resistance6
» RE: * SIGH * and * SIGH * again Posted by: sanitysojourner
» RE: * SIGH * and * SIGH * again Posted by: resistance6
» RE: * SIGH * and * SIGH * again Posted by: sanitysojourner
» RE: * SIGH * Posted by: Shehova
» don't like the father? Posted by: omidele
» RE: * SIGH * Posted by: LPB
» RE: * SIGH * Posted by: resistance6
» RE: NARAL LIES Posted by: Vyking
» RE: NARAL LIES Posted by: resistance6
» RE: NARAL LIES Posted by: PickleBarrel
» RE: ...Did we miss our dosage today? Posted by: PickleBarrel
» Oops! :)=) Posted by: writeval
» RE: NARAL LIES Posted by: MatthewSavage
» RE: NARAL LIES Posted by: resistance6
» RE: NARAL LIES Posted by: babs
» This is just a joke right? Posted by: peritonlogon
» RE: NARAL LIES Posted by: LPB
» RE: NARAL LIES Posted by: owleyes
» RE: NARAL LIES Posted by: brbjdl
» RE: NARAL LIES Posted by: peacefulaim
» Bush-NARAL similarities Posted by: vespasian01
» RE: Bush-NARAL similarities Posted by: resistance6
» Religious Banter Posted by: errandchild
» RE: NARAL LIES Posted by: Aussie Kim
OYG
Posted by: deman on Jun 21, 2006 3:23 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
OYG !!!
if our only hope is your imaginairy friend or god, then its true, we are all doomed

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: OYG Posted by: resistance6
» RE:"the wrath of God?" Posted by: weiwuwei
» RE: OYG Posted by: PickleBarrel
» RE: OYG Posted by: babs
» RE: OYG Posted by: LPB
» Tolerance is the Ticket Posted by: feller
mike532
Posted by: mike532 on Jun 21, 2006 3:30 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
there is no such thing as an UNBORN BABY they are a fetus and not alive . life begines at birth not before

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: "Sanctity of Life" Argument Posted by: resistance6
» RE: mike532 Posted by: feller
» AD HOC EMPATHY Posted by: LMNOP
» RE: AD HOC EMPATHY Posted by: WyrdSister
» RE: AD HOC EMPATHY Posted by: resistance6
What would Jesus bomb?
Posted by: Louisa on Jun 21, 2006 3:52 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Save it, you Christian pyscho!

When a woman fights for the right to choose, she fights for the simple right to remain autonomous. A man cannot become preganant and is never faced with this choice. A small parasitic zygote will never grow into a small potential human being inside a man - only women have been "blessed" with this "gift."

It may not be her first choice, it may not even be what she might do in other circumstances, but a woman has the right to choose. She's always had this right - believe it or not. In the field strangling her own unwanted children or trying to early abort it with parsley wrapped in gauze. If it were your body you would likewise demand such control. All we want now are safe and legal alternatives. So thanks for the last 30+ years!

No one is going to tell me what to do with my body. I support legal abortion, but don't deceive yourself that it is the only avenue of protest available to women.

I am sorry to inform you members of the radical Christian right, but women are in charge. We do your laundry, cook your food and serve you dinner.

Do not fuck with us.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Or we won't fuck with you Posted by: paulaH
» RE: Or we won't fuck with you Posted by: resistance6
» RE: Or we won't fuck with you Posted by: deeannef
» RE: Or we won't fuck with you Posted by: resistance6
» Typical Posted by: LMNOP
» RE: Typical Posted by: resistance6
» Christianity is. . . Posted by: peacefulaim
» RE: Or we won't fuck with you Posted by: WyrdSister
» Godwin's Law Posted by: repo
» RE: Godwin's Law Posted by: resistance6
» RE: Godwin's Law Posted by: LPB
» RE: Godwin's Law Posted by: paulaH
» resistance6 is bait Posted by: babs
» RE: resistance6 is bait Posted by: paulaH
» RE: What would Jesus bomb? Posted by: feller
» GO, LOUISA!!! :-) Posted by: Aim
anti-abortionists
Posted by: Fang-Face Dreamweaver on Jun 21, 2006 4:06 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The anti-abortion rights movement is not about morality or "life", it's all about control of those over whom you have no legal authority. At bottom, it's all about enslaving women. If you accord to yourself authority over someone else's life, then you necessarily reduce that person to the status of chattel; property.

It's also a tad paradoxical coming as it does from a crowd that will scream about "the law" as if the law is something holy and invariable. What they turn a blind eye to is the fact that legalized abortion is the law of the land; ever since Roe v. Wade.

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» RE: anti-abortionists Posted by: resistance6
» RE: anti-abortionists Posted by: Fang-Face Dreamweaver
» RE: anti-abortionists Posted by: Shehova
» RE: anti-abortionists Posted by: Fang-Face Dreamweaver
» RE: anti-abortionists Posted by: paulaH
» Civil Rights for-Slime Goo Posted by: AdamSelene40
» RE: Civil Rights for-Slime Goo Posted by: resistance6
» RE: Civil Rights for-Slime Goo Posted by: PickleBarrel
» RE: Civil Rights for-Slime Goo Posted by: resistance6
Pro-life?
Posted by: Annarisse on Jun 21, 2006 4:18 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If these legislators were really pro-life, they'd be championing universal medical care, paid parental leaves, higher minimum wages, and other ideas designed to help the children of the poor grow into healthy adults. It's immoral to let them be conceived and then kill them - okay, go ahead and believe that, but then put your money where your mouth is and help desperate women with the realities of raising an unplanned child. Only when you do this will you have any moral credibility.

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» RE: Pro-life? Posted by: resistance6
» RE: Pro-life? Posted by: babs
» RE: Pro-life? RES-6 AND I... Posted by: resistance6
» They cannot be taught Posted by: LMNOP
» RE: They cannot be taught Posted by: resistance6
» RE: Pro-life? Posted by: paulaH
» RE: Pro-life? Posted by: Aussie Kim
» Put Up or Posted by: feller
» RE: Pro-life? Posted by: AvalonSeeker
» RE: Pro-life? Posted by: resistance6
» RE: Pro-life? Posted by: smithbr
» RE: Pro-life? Posted by: Aussie Kim
Is the pendulum finally turning?
Posted by: ladyoracle on Jun 21, 2006 4:20 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I live in Louisiana and have been feeling extremely pessimistic about women's rights lately (largely thanks to our "democrat" and "woman" governor, because I expect attacks on women's health rights from the right, but not the left).

This article gives me solid reasons to be hopeful that America actually won't tolerate this extremism. I am glad that candidates are pushing the issue that so-called pro-life politicians are anti-preventive measures like birth control and sex education. I also hope they will criticize the extents of the bans, since in Louisiana, there is no clause for rape or incest!! I recently read an article about an 8-yr old girl who was raped and became pregnant in a South American country, and there was a huge legal battle over whether she should be allowed to have an abortion, which she eventually obtained; that case could also happen in Louisiana if our politicians get thier way.

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» resistance6 Posted by: Lizmv
» RE: resistance6 Posted by: resistance6
» RE: resistance6 Posted by: Lizmv
» RE: resistance6 Posted by: resistance6
» RE: resistance6 Posted by: paulaH
» resistance6 Posted by: Aim
» RE: SERMON ON THE MOUNT??? Posted by: SamFox
» RE: Is the pendulum finally turning? Posted by: AvalonSeeker
» RE: Is the pendulum finally turning? Posted by: PickleBarrel
The Bible and Abortion
Posted by: Ratskii on Jun 21, 2006 5:22 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Let me quote Exodus 21.22-25: When men strive together, and hurt a woman with child, so that there is a miscarrage, and yet no harm follows, the one who hurt her shall be fined, according as the woman's husband shall lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine. If any other harm follows, then you shall give life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.

Here is a clear statement from the Old Testament that an an artificially induced abortion is considered the equivalent of a misdemenor, but other harm done to the woman through said violence is treated as a capital crime if the woman loses her life and a felony (i.e. subject to eye for an eye mosaic code) if she is otherwise harmed.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it Bible thumpers

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» RE: The Bible and Abortion Posted by: resistance6
» RE: The Bible and Abortion Posted by: Ellie1
» RE: The Bible and Abortion Posted by: resistance6
» Illuminati claptrap Posted by: babs
» RE: The Bible and Abortion Posted by: paulaH
» RE: The Bible and Abortion Posted by: Ratskii
» RE: The Bible and Abortion Posted by: HereticChick
» RE: The Bible and Abortion Posted by: brasilaron
» RE: The Bible and Abortion Posted by: Aussie Kim
the same as it always been....
Posted by: weiwuwei on Jun 21, 2006 6:46 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
as someone already said, as been said many times, but the "pro-lifers" just cannot see... the whole issue of preventing access to contraception, sex education, private choice regarding abortion all things of reproductive freedom is and has always been nothing more than the impulse to control, dominate and keep enslaved. Just insane.

i also remember hearing that in chinese philosophy, they understand a truth we have not seen; that the feminine energy/principle/consciuosness cannot be subdued by force, no matter what is done. it is more subtle than the male energy/principle and will always find a way, like flowing water that will always find it's way around any obstacle in it's path. no matter how long it takes, the feminine will not be subdued, ever, by force. But somehow, "maleness" just cannot accept that, so this farce goes on and on.

and that so many "pro-lifers" are so callous towards govt help to the poor children already here is such hypocrisy, what can you say?

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» RE: the same as it always been.... Posted by: resistance6
» RE: the same as it always been.... Posted by: resistance6
This guy is hilarious!
Posted by: Vyking on Jun 21, 2006 7:56 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There are few things that produce more unintentional humor than the histrionics, melodrama and chest thumping of religious kooks playing King Lear on the heath. It's like movies that are just so bad they're good. I also loved resistance6's completely unintentional comic touches like the link to the Army of God (now there's a hot bed of mental health!), "RU286", the paranoid reference to the nonexistant Illuminati, and the pathetic invent-a-fact that "half of all couples are infertile." Hee!

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» RE: This guy is hilarious! Posted by: resistance6
Abortion is not forbidden by God
Posted by: Fang-Face Dreamweaver on Jun 21, 2006 8:35 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When a religious group takes a position on a political issue, it typically does so by claiming divine inspiration. Not only does this inhibit debate, but it replaces rational discourse and the rules of evidence by obscurantism and willfulness. Citing "God's will" in a discussion is meant to silence, not convince, an opponent.
--Aram Vartanian, Democracy, Religion, and the Englightment, 1991, reprinted in Civil Liberties: Opposing Viewpoints, pg 139

The basic premise of the anti-choice movement is that God himself has prohibited abortion, the "proof" of which is to be found in the scriptures. However, the entire history of biblical exegiesis shows that almost any personal or collective conviction can find support in divine revelation; not only are the contents of the Bible heterogeneous and inconsistent but they are often couched in vague, ambiguous, or figurative language. Thus, the Bible always obliges a true believer by miraculously saying whatever he or she wants it to say -- even if nothing resembling one's belief can be discovered verbatim in the Old or New Testaments [...].
--Aram Vartanian, Democracy, Religion, and the Englightment, 1991, reprinted in Civil Liberties: Opposing Viewpoints, pg 139

Kindly keep in mind that the Commandment "Thou shalt not commit murder" is applied only against those who do not kow tow to christo-fanaticism. Christo-fanatics have murdered large numbers of people down through the ages. Many of them were christian women; some of the victims were as young as seven years old.

Christo-fanatics have demonstrated time and again that they do not care for those who are already living, only for those who are unborn.

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» Fang Face Dreamweaver Posted by: resistance6
» RE: Fang Face Dreamweaver Posted by: Fang-Face Dreamweaver
» I'm not a christian Posted by: harris
» RE: I'm not a christian Posted by: Fang-Face Dreamweaver
Its great to expose pro-lifers as the thugs they are!
Posted by: outsidea on Jun 21, 2006 8:42 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is a great article for two reasons. One it gives many of us who support a woman's right to choose a morale boost in the face of the right wing Christians malevolent and very successful assault on that right. Two, it gives those of us who are not familiar with the hypocrisy, malevolence, and misogyny that characterizes the vast majority of "Pro-Life" activists a chance to see it in action...(thank you resistance6) and wake up to the danger these kooks pose to us all.

Joseph

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» Fornicating FEMALES? Posted by: Aim
On Being Hilarious, fertility rates and RU486
Posted by: resistance6 on Jun 21, 2006 9:02 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Viking -- You're right. Infertility rates are 25 percent. All the soy which is put in the food (raises estrogen levels) may have something to do with the reduced fertility. Also STDs and environmental factors.

And it's RU486 not 286, so why don't you crucify me on that?

The point is there's an awful lot of couples, millions of them, who are desperate to have children and can't, and are having to resort to test tubes and surrogates.

Thomas Cowan, MD, is a physician in private practice in San Francisco, California, a board member of the Weston A. Price Foundation, and a regular contributor to our "Ask the Doctor" column. This article was excerpted from his book The Fourfold Path to Healing, now available from NewTrends Publishing, http://www.newtrendspublishing.com/. Visit Dr. Cowan's website at http://www.fourfoldhealing.com.

EXCERPT: "Other issues affecting the health of the American male have yet to receive the same national attention. For example, the average sperm count of today's adult male is about 50 percent lower than it was 50 years ago. Infertility rates among American couples now approach 25 percent, a heartbreaking situation that can be partially explained by lower sperm counts and decreased viability of the sperm. These changes parallel the findings seen in other mammalian species, including lowered fertility rates, decreased sperm counts and anatomical changes in the male reproductive organs.

Clearly, environmental changes that have accelerated during the past 40 to 50 years affect the reproductive health of males of different species. Exogenous estrogens in our environment undoubtedly contribute to the feminization of males in many mammalian species, as well as the lowered sperm counts of the American male."

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Rape
Posted by: PickleBarrel on Jun 21, 2006 9:03 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Actually, I'm avidly waiting for the Religious defense of rape as preventing the murder of children by preventing women from bleeding their unborn children into the toilet!!

I believe this is the next step for such fanaticism :)

Someone will do it, I think.

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» unfortunately... Posted by: brasilaron
Always the idiot!
Posted by: RosieRivetor on Jun 21, 2006 10:32 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Resistance6, do you just sit at your computer and get off on being such a TOOL? Your hate is beyond understanding. Shut up and crawl back under your rock. Unless you have a uterus - you opinion just doesn't matter on this. EVER!

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» RE: Always the idiot! Posted by: MatthewSavage
» Et Vous, Savage? Posted by: Aim
Birth Control in the water
Posted by: Shallow_Vain on Jun 21, 2006 10:36 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
End of discussion..
UNLESS of course your religion forbids that as well...
In which case.. Like most third world countries with a Caste system a large labor class will develope.. YEA! Slave labor!
It's AMAZING to me that while the right wants to stop abortion and end most forms of birth control.. They also want to cut back on ALL forms of social Welfare, including education.

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Thoughtful
Posted by: morj78 on Jun 21, 2006 10:43 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Re: NARAL LIES

I looked at those photos -- they are of full term babies!! They are not embryos! Also, I find it very interesting that the very people who are "Pro-Life". are also Pro Capitol Punishment. What kind of mental gymnastics does it take to hold those two positions side-by-side?


Whether or not I am Pro Life and/or Pro Choice, I will defend to the death ANY woman's ;right to make any and ALL decisions about her own body!

I have the sneaky feeling that if Jesus walked in and told these rabid people who scream their vitriol at women in terrible emotional pain at Planned Parenthood Clinics, which do OTHER things beside abortions by the way, they would shoot him down!

The fact that these fanatics routinely break several Commandments every time they perpetrate violence or vitriol upon the above, not to mention the funerals of gay or lesbian people leads me to the conclusion that these so-called "Christians" aren't.

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FED UP TO THE TEETH!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by: pianojo on Jun 21, 2006 11:17 AM   
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Pro-Life? What a joke of a misnomer. These people are NOT pro-life. They are ANTI-CHOICE. They have the gall to think that they have the right to tell me what I can and cannot do with my own body.

Where do they get off thinking like this? And what makes it doubly sad is that there are WOMEN supporting this crap. It's bad enough when MEN support it, but WOMEN? I can only assume they have been brainwashed.

I have HAD IT with anti-choice people parading as caring human beings who care more about fetuses than they do about women. These creatures who pretend to care about fetuses don't give a good god-damn once the fetus is born. If they did, we wouldn't have 20% of children in this country living in poverty and going to bed hungry every night.

This is NOT about caring for fetuses. These creatures do NOT care about fetuses. All they care about is CONTROLLING WOMEN. That is their bottom line.

If there is a god, my fondest wish is that these anti-choice disciples descend to the depths along with their miserable excuse for a religion!!!!!!!!!

And now let me close with a curse on anti-choice people: May you have a mansion with 100 rooms and may every room have 100 beds and may malaria fever toss you from bed to bed!

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Pro-Life? Ha!!!
Posted by: NonnyO on Jun 21, 2006 12:29 PM   
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resistance6 said: "But as human beings we don't kill babies, our own babies or other people's babies. Barbarians and Satanists may do that, but civilized human beings don't. Christians certainly don't."

Yes, Christians most certainly DO kill babies... after they are born... by bombing the hell out of the homes they inhabit with their siblings and their fathers and their mothers, some of whom are pregnant with unborn children (like the woman in labor killed by the US military on the way to the hospital in labor and about to give birth). Ask anyone in Iraq or Afghanistan how they feel when US bombs or bullets start flying....

Oh, wait... you won't get an answer from dead people you good Christians have killed, now will you...?

If you lack a uterus because you were not born with one, you don't get to dictate what is or is not in any woman's uterus unless it's in your own body, and then you can control what is or is not in your own uterus. Period. All the rest of the blather is useless debate unless it affects your own body.

If all rapists and child molesters were castrated, women would not have to worry about getting pregnant as a result of rape. (Yes, I know rape is about power and control, but if rapists and child molesters were castrated at least their sperm would not have a chance of fathering an unwanted child and potentially passing on those violent tendencies, just in case it's genetic.)

If there had been no abortion laws passed in the 19th century, perhaps my grandmother who died after carrying a dead and decomposing corpse inside of her for three months after pre-eclampsia had killed her fetus (and she knew it was dead, so did the doctor, and the entire family) would have lived to raise the five children who survived her. The doctor did not do a C-section until she went into labor, and she died 24 hours later. I do genealogy research, I have a copy of her death certificate and of the male fetus "of six months gestation but carried to term." Her death amounted to extreme cruelty, drawn out with both physical and emotional pain over a dead fetus for three months on top of everything else.

I'd say put your money where your mouth is and adopt a child born as a result of rape and put up for adoption... but you'd make a terrible control-freak parent, and I'd not wish that on a helpless baby....

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» RE: Pro-Life? Ha!!! Posted by: Dean Cascio
NO PUBLIC EDUCATION AND PICTURES
Posted by: SamFox on Jun 21, 2006 1:05 PM   
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of aborted children are available from pro-'choice' groups. They only want us to hear about the idiot women who used to use a coathanger for 'birth control' or 'back alley' horror stories. They fight ecucating the people fang & claw because a big money INDUSTRY is at stake. Why is 'choice' used instead of 'abortion'? Easier sell & one way they bias poll questions. Most pro-choice liberals are anti-choice when it comes to firearms, abortion education, school vouchers, closing the borders (as they hope for more Lib votes)...they lie when they claim choice...they only want us to have THEIR choices available.

Res.6 is right on!

Some years ago Life Magizine (?) had an issue W/pics. that showed the stages of a developing child. You'll NEVER find this info at NARAL or other pro-KILL THE KID sites. I still have the pics some where. If I had a scanner I would post them. I'll find them and get back w/the date and issue #. Maybe these pics. are available somewhere online. Pediatric medical books should have pics. also.

If only the Libs would give the un-born the same rights they want to give homosexual perversion, ILLEGAL ALIENS and Pres. 'Shrubs' new world order cronies (who want to put the USA into a union like the EU after erasing our borders and using the Constitution for TP).

Who is the theif Jesus said in John 10:10 comes to STEAL, KILL and DESTROY? Abortion STEALS the life un-born children by KILLING THEM AND DESTROYING THEIR DEVELOPING BODIES!!! Then make face cream from their tiny bodies or throw them in the trash! This is the work of their master satan.

Christ said woe to them who would offend children, His little ones! It would be better for them to have a millstone tied to their necks and be cast into the sea!! Tearing developing children limb from limb and throwing them in the trash is a BIG OFFENSE!!!

Not to mention you are murdering your future Social Security base, the least of the ramiifications.

Man, somebody needs to repent! Oh I know, now I'm one of God's bullies! But as I don't want to kill or tear YOU limb from limb, who's the REAL bully???

SamFox

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» RE: NO PUBLIC EDUCATION AND PICTURES Posted by: celticsweetgrass
Dulcimom
Posted by: morj78 on Jun 21, 2006 1:18 PM   
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I looked at those photos -- they are of full term babies. They are not embryos! I find it very interesting that the very people who are rabidly "Pro-Life" are most often Pro Capitol Punishment. What kind of mental gymnastics does it take to hold both of those opinions side by side?

Whether or not I am Pro Life or Pro Choice, I will defend to the death ANY person's, man or woman, to make any and all decisions about his/her own body. That is what free will is all about.

I have the sneaky feeling that if Jesus walked in and confronted the people who scream and rant their vitriol at those terrified women walking into a Planned Parenthood or other Women's Clinic (which perform other services, by the way), he would be shot down!

The fact that these fanatics routinely break several Commandments every time they perpetrate violence or vitriol upon the above, not to mention gays & lesbians, leads me to conclusion that these so-called "Christians" aren't.

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It's all about control
Posted by: LPB on Jun 21, 2006 4:03 PM   
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Even in the Bible, God gave mankind free will, to choose for themselves whether to obey or not to obey, or to choose whether to believe or not believe. Do people have to live with the consequences of their choices? Yes. Every choice we make has some consequence, and at some point in time we have to deal with those. But if God didn't intend for us to have a choice about our faith, why didn't he just create a bunch of beings who would automatically believe and automatically obey? He obviously has the ability, yet he chose not to. If God himself gave us the capability to doubt, question, and choose for ourselves, why is it okay for one group of people to try to take that ability, or that right, away from everyone who makes a different choice than they have? I respect the right of conservative Christians to have their own beliefs and to follow them, unless and until their beliefs lead them to try to stop me from living according to what I believe is right. If the choices I make are wrong and I wind up in Hell someday, that's not the problem of all of the people who told me my choices were wrong, it's my problem. My choices won't send anyone to Hell, except for me, so please don't try to make my choices for me.

I believe in God, I believe that Jesus Christ was a real person, I believe in love, but I don't see any reason why I should go around demanding that everyone else give up their beliefs and go along with mine. I don't believe Jesus advocated that and I don't believe God does either.

Also, several people have made the very valid point that if an embryo is a child at the instant of conception and that its life should be preserved no matter what, then what about the eggs that are 'aborted' each month during the menstrual cycle? Isn't this potential life that, if the first assertion is correct, should be preserved no matter what? Someone please explain the distinction between these two forms of potential life for me, and please give me a logical response here, not just some emotional declaration that I'm going to hell or that I worship Satan or that I'm the reason we're all doomed or anything like that. Even Jesus was able to give logical and reasonable responses to those who questioned him, so please don't use my request for logic and reason as an excuse to brand me as an anti-Christian.

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» RE: It's all about control Posted by: WyrdSister
Development of a Human and pictures of full term aborted babies
Posted by: resistance6 on Jun 21, 2006 4:11 PM   
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I don't know what you mean by "full term" babies, but the medical definition is 40 weeks.

The babies in the pictures on the website are from 12 weeks to 30 weeks.

Babies are, however, aborted right up to term (40 weeks). The abortionist named Tiller out in Kansas is notorious for doing these late abortions. He incinterates the bodies and you can smell them burning, just like at Auschwitz. There is absolutely no legal restriction to aborting babies at any stage of development as long as the abortionist deems the woman's mental or physical health to be at risk. (see Doe v Bolton to define mental health, which includes poverty, not married, "distressful life and circumstances," etc.)

A baby at 12 weeks is fully formed.

A baby at 10 weeks is recognizably a human baby.

A baby at 6 weeks has brain waves.

A baby at 4 weeks has a heart beat.

Most women don't realize they are pregnant untll the baby is 10 to 12 weeks of age.

RU486 will cause a baby to abort, even a late term baby. This is the infamous abortion pill, and it is NOT safe for the mother, and certainly not safe for the baby.

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» abortion during birth-- Posted by: vespasian01
» RE: abortion during birth-- Posted by: resistance6
What a pack of outright lies and false witness
Posted by: Fang-Face Dreamweaver on Jun 21, 2006 5:03 PM   
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The abortionist named Tiller [...] incinterates the bodies and you can smell them burning, just like at Auschwitz.

How would you know? Have you been to the Kansas and Auschwitz sites yourself (when Auschwitz was in operation, of course) to be able to compare the odors at both places? Or are you simply making this up? Do you have any hard and verifiable numbers such as how many he is burning per hour as determined by business records? Can you tell us how it is that an "abortionist" is also running a crematoria, which should be done by a funeral home?

If you are simply making this up, then you have violated the Eighth Commandment and borne false witness against your neighbour. Repent and beg forgiveness or burn in Hell.

By your own rules, of course, not mine.

RU486 will cause a baby to abort, even a late term baby.

You know, there's this amusing little thing called an Interwebby that allows you to perform all kinds of research so you can get your facts right before making an ass of yourself. According to the information on Mifeprex at the RxList.com web site, RU486 is indicated only up to the 49th day of pregnancy. You have been caught out in a bald-faced lie.

Babies are, however, aborted right up to term (40 weeks).

Then call your local prosecutor and tell him that someone is performing abortions in violation of Roe v. Wade:

With respect to the State's important and legitimate interest in the health of the mother, the "compelling" point, in the light of present medical knowledge, is at approximately the end of the first trimester. This is so because of the now-established medical fact, referred to above at 149, that until the end of the first trimester mortality in abortion may be less than mortality in normal childbirth. It follows that, from and after this point, a State may regulate the abortion procedure to the extent that the regulation reasonably relates to the preservation and protection of maternal health. Examples of permissible state regulation in this area are requirements as to the qualifications of the person who is to perform the abortion; as to the licensure of that person; as to the facility in which the procedure is to be performed, that is, whether it must be a hospital or may be a clinic or some other place of less-than-hospital status; as to the licensing of the facility; and the like.

This means, on the other hand, that, for the period of pregnancy prior to this "compelling" point, the attending physician, in consultation with his patient, is free to determine, without regulation by the State, that, in his medical judgment, the patient's pregnancy should be terminated. If that decision is reached, the judgment may be effectuated by an abortion free of interference by the State.

With respect to the State's important and legitimate interest in potential life, the "compelling" point is at viability. This is so because the fetus then presumably has the capability of meaningful life outside the mother's womb. State regulation protective of fetal life after viability thus has both logical and biological justifications. If the State is interested in protecting fetal life after viability, it may go so far as to proscribe abortion [410 U.S. 113, 164] during that period, except when it is necessary to preserve the life or health of the mother.


You are clearly not a credible witness.

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Bad Nomenclature - Pro-Life & Pro-Choice
Posted by: aouie01 on Jun 21, 2006 5:18 PM   
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The terminology should be AUATTOFFAH & PUATTOFFAH ((just a joke) Anti or Pro Unrestricted Access To Termination Of Fetuses For Attached Humans)".
If communication and dialog is highly valued (as opposed to propaganda, political / cultural / religious / ideological bias, etc.) then both Pro-Life / Anti-Life or Pro-Choice / Anti-Choice are bad nomenclatures (whether or not you consider them misnomers). Almost everyone is mostly Pro-Choice and Pro-Life with reference to most issues and not with reference to some issues.
(Though improvements over choice / life) The terms Pro or Anti Abortion Rights are not good either. "Rights" is bad when there is no agreement on the "Rights". Some interpret "Rights" as entitlements that society (or government, dictator, etc.) grants to (or recognizes in) certain entities, while others think of "Rights" as something that entities are entitled to by any good moral / ethical outlook / analysis. "Fetal Rights (to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness)" presupposes that Fetuses have "Rights" (which the opposing sides do not agree on). Not too many people comfortable with considering themselves "Pro-Abortion Rights" would be comfortable considering themselves "Anti-Fetal Rights".
The difference in opinion are as to whether people should have a right to terminate the life of one's attached fetus and if so under what circumstances. Most people on opposing sides of the issue probably lack the will, inclination and ability to advance the communication much further even if they could agree on labels. But as far as possible people should try not to propagate the bad nomenclatures that are not conducive to advancing communication and dialog.
Sincerely,
Aouie

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Roe V. Wade will NEVER be overturned
Posted by: CatDad on Jun 21, 2006 10:32 PM   
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Roe V. Wade will NEVER be overturned. The GOP will never give up its goose that lays the golden eggs. Roe V. Wade is the best thing that has happened to the GOP. America’s plutocratic elite must be laughing their collective asses off on the con-job they’ve pulled on this issue....duping “values voters’ in the south and midwest to blatantly vote against their own economic self interest and vote instead for “culture of life” con-artists.

Like Tony Soprano’s underlings....Bush’s men on the Supreme Court are “made” men...they serve the interest of those who put them there...not “We the People.” They’ve almost certainly been told to never overturn this decision and they can be counted on for not doing this...instead...the “culture of life” con-artists in Congress will continue doing what they’ve doing for 20 years....giving their duped “culture of life” constituents a bone once every four or five years....i.e. banning abortion in military hospitals...banning partial-birth abortion....trying to limit abortion in South Dakota....WHILE...maintaing widespread legal abortion.

Neocon/Right Wing economic policies feed the abortion machine....If I owned a company which profited off of selling medical devices for abortions I’d be jumping for joy everytime the Repugs win. As a progressive, pro-choice American...I refuse to be distracted/dragged down into this debate....I do not believe that we are in an imminent danger of having back-alley abortions anytime soon. I refuse to be dragged into the trap of the Right’s endless “culture wars” to distract from economic and peace issues.

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» CatDad is mostly right Posted by: resistance6
To SamFox
Posted by: paulaH on Jun 22, 2006 4:05 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What's a Higher Power? There are many. saten's army is full of them

And you're one of his generals.

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Poetic Justice to the Abortion Survivors
Posted by: resistance6 on Jun 22, 2006 5:41 AM   
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Someone mentioned that we have killed off our Social Security base. How true!

You think this puny "base" is going to be willing to support all those baby boomers who will have their hands out for their Social Security in a year or two?

I'm one of them, and I've always known I would never see a penny of the Social Security that was confiscated from me by the government. A quarter of my salary for many years was taken, against my will, for Social Security. I needed the money then, not now. I actually am not interested in looking forward to a check each month from a government agency anyway. The government can keep it. They stole it from me in the first place, and I'm not asking for it ever.

But the point is -- America has brought up a generation, almost two generations, on the Death Culture worldview. These are people who have been taught by the government schools and their parents and by their church and by the American Nazi culture that abortion is a good solution to problems, that the world is overpopulated and anything that eliminates humans is a good thing, that euthanasia is a civil right and also a good thing, and we are all a bunch of animals on the food chain engaging in survival of the fittest.

So guess what? Now the Boomers who want to live had best avoid hospitals and lay low. Doctors, nurses are only too glad to help people along on the road to death if they think somebody is too poor, too sick for their liking. Medical records are now the possession of the federal government and go into the central databanks. How long before these records are sorted through for the "unfit?"

I predict the day is coming when society will declare war on the elderly in the same way it has so done to the preborn babies. The abortion survivors -- those children who were born in spite of a "woman's right to choose" -- will now be waging war on the old folks who treated their lives with less value than some alligator in Florida.


Actually, every single person who was born after 1973 is a survivor of abortion.

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» Baloney. Posted by: Mutternich
» RE: Baloney. Posted by: resistance6
» RE: Baloney. Posted by: Mutternich
» On Payroll Withholding for Bennies Posted by: resistance6
What is wrong with you people?
Posted by: nwellington on Jun 22, 2006 6:02 AM   
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I am not an American, nor do I live there. And thank *god* for that! So much for being a 'free' nation. I just hope that Europe never ends up as fundamentalist as you lot seem to be. WAKE UP AMERICANS and realise that you are loosing your freedom. Perhaps you should rename yourselves 'The Land of The Opressed?'

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» RE: What is wrong with you people? Posted by: madelinefan
» RE: What is wrong with you people? Posted by: resistance6
Adoption is not the panacea promised
Posted by: adoptee12 on Jun 22, 2006 6:45 AM   
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Based on my personal experience and in no way speaking for anyone else, I would like to add to this discuss that adoption is not the panacea the pro-lifers claim it is. For my natural mother there were NO good "solutions." However, had she chosen abortion, I would surely never have experienced the suffering I have endured during my existence on this earth.

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my maker?
Posted by: ladyoracle on Jun 22, 2006 10:49 AM   
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oh, i've already met my maker, and we're cool

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Who's Choice?
Posted by: ClassicLib on Jun 22, 2006 12:04 PM   
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I am for Choice... School Choice, oh wait you libs don't like that kind of choice. Choice is only good if you use it to kill babies. So I am for Choice, I choose not to wear my seat belt. Oh, wait, you made that illegal so that's not really a choice anymore. Ok, fair enough, I choose (should I die soon) to have my organs sold to the higest bidder on the open market! What? I can't make that choice? Ok, I choose to fund my own retirement and "opt out" of social security. After all I am smart enough to handle my own retirement. Crap. Blocked again. Well, I work for myself so I would like to not pay unemployment insurance because I am my own employer. Damn...

What choices should I get to make again?

Oh, I get it. I get to make the choices you want me to make, if I don't make those choices correctly, you make them for me.

You gotta love the nannycrats.

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» RE: Who's Choice? Posted by: paulaH
The Idiocy Is Unbelievable!
Posted by: edmenken on Jun 22, 2006 3:15 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Reading some of the comments posted here reinforces my belief that the country is awash in ignorance and psychopathology! Two simple points should be made clear; (1) To deny a woman the right to choose whether she wants to bear children is, in effect, forcing her to become a procreation factory for the state...or someone's church, and (2) All those who hold their bibles aloft, loudly proclaiming that their religious beliefs should be imposed upon all the rest of us as a matter of law, clearly do not understand that the Unites States is, and was always intended by the founders to be, a secular nation...despite the lies that some psychopaths, masquerading as religious and/or political leaders, tell about American history and the intentions of the founders.

Those who continually try to twist the meaning of the "Establishment Clause" of the First Amendment (freedom of religion), should read Article VI of the Constitution, which unequivocally states that, "NO RELIGIOUS TEST SHALL EVER BE REQUIRED AS A QUALIFICATION TO ANY OFFICE OR PUBLIC TRUST UNDER THE UNITED STATES." The founders left no doubt as to their intentions, and anyone who bothers to read Jefferson (author of the Declaration of Independence), and Madison (author of the Constitution) must acknowledge (unless they're patently insane) that the laws of the land would be based upon common law, and not "biblical law."

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brotherdave
Posted by: brotherdave on Jun 22, 2006 6:50 PM   
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Why is it that pro "lifers" seem to worship a punishing and unforgiving God? I thought it was blasphemous to assert that we know the mind of our Creator.

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» RE: brotherdave Posted by: resistance6
Oh, honey, if your mother only knew
Posted by: thinkingsooner on Jun 22, 2006 11:05 PM   
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Your mother did what she thought was best. Just as I and uncounted other women have done over the centuries. If she only knew what you have been going through I am certain she would fight all the hell fires to help you. Having given a child up for adoption AND having had an abortion, I am certain beyond the shadow of a doubt that surrendering a child for adoption is the worst thing any woman can ever live through. The loss of a few cells can never compare to the loss of a living, breathing baby that no one could ever have described to you. Never! -- Find your Mom, there are ways to do it. Find some peace for yourself.

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» DEAR ADOPTEE 12 Posted by: thinkingsooner
NARAL LIES?
Posted by: simplefear on Jun 23, 2006 5:03 PM   
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Listen, I work with "unwanted" babies everyday and the abuse heaped on them is horrendous. Every time you shut the door of a Planned Parenthood clinic you shut the door on free or low cost birth control. South Dakota was NOT even taking into consideration rape or incest. My body is NOT somebody else's vessel, it is MINE. Our Earth is heading to extinction because there are TOO MANY PEOPLE ON IT, not because abortion is legal. Pro Lifers, I find, tend to be male, or women past their birthing years, middle class or above who have never been raped or impregnated and left. They have never been left with a choice to make that can tear their hearts out. They are overzealous in their beliefs and actually think it is okay to call women entering clinics names--or go as far as doing bodily harm or property damage. Don't want an abortion--don't have one. Hope you or your child or wife is never raped or has her life in danger where this horrible choice has to be made. But please, STOP judging those who have been there--you have no right.

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A NEW VIEW PERHAPS
Posted by: listeningloud on Jun 24, 2006 2:36 AM   
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I just read the Naral Lies comments about lots of dead babies and how God may have abandon us because we abort fetuses. Yes these babies (if that's what they are at 7 to 9 weeks) most common time to abort in a fetus' life, are dead. No doubt. If one values life no matter what, no matter how valuable then this argument stands. But often those who rally for us to save the millions of dead fetuses (I will not call them babies) are also supporting a president who sends thousands of young men and women off to war. And one could argue those sent were sent on lies. So their argument quickly breaks down. Think if you had to chose (yes this is a stupid comparison but made to make a point) would you spend your effort and time fighting for the life of a 18 year old or 22 year old with a small family or the life of a fetus? I am guessing we all know the answer to this one. So yes anti-choice folks, it's true, we are killing fetuses. But know this is not where it stops---the blood on the hands of this country is flowing like an ocean; 10s of 1,000s of lives of viable Iraqis, our troops, those who die at the hands of our draconian politics and have for years. Yes the unborn fetuses can be counted amongst the millions who have died becusse of US policies. But they are not the only ones. So if you must lament, know you should include a world of people in your lamentations. If you are to comment on behalf of God and your knowing he has left us, then do so for all the lives we have killed.

But let's be clear if you are to pray to God to save lives you may need to look at how you vote and what you do with your life that contrubutes to the blood? It's not just the pro-choice that contribute to your angst. Did you vote for Bush---do you realize how many lives have been lost at the hands of his policies? Do you know what we are doing as a country about Darfur, or what we did about the Balkans. Do you drive a gas guzzler and are you aware of the blood let for you to do this? Do you know how many died in South America or Timoor based on our policies? Please people, understand if you are going to cry at the loss of lives and condemn us for our abortion policies perhaps you should also understand what other lives we are not saving. So perhaps we should understand that almost no one is immune to directly or indirectly supporting blood letting. Not the God fearing, conservatives who cry over the fetuses aborted and not the liberals. Perhaps we should start with saving those more viable and fully alive like the families in Iraq to make an argument for why God has left us--if he/she has?

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» RE: A NEW VIEW PERHAPS -- NOT Posted by: resistance6
here are 2 IMPORTANT links to read
Posted by: ellie on Jun 24, 2006 6:20 AM   
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http://www.indiancountrytoday.com/content.cfm?id=1096412970

http://www.indiancountrytoday.com/content.cfm?id=1096413086

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ON THE BIG LIE OF TOO MANY PEOPLE
Posted by: resistance6 on Jun 24, 2006 11:29 AM   
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This is Al Gore fairy tales. Al Gore is a liar, spokesman for the Death Culture. Our earth is plenty big for all the people and lots more. And we have unlimited oil and many other resources besides. The hydrogen powered car keeps getting invented and then either the inventor is murdered or bought off -- one of the two. It's all about money, dummy.

There's room for the entire population to fit comfortably in Texas.

Lets say we give all 6 billion people on the planet 1,000 square feet each, did you realize that they all would fit very easily into the state of Texas (with over 1,300 billion square feet left over!).

Sounds amazing doesn't it? Don't believe me? I will PROVE it!

Texas has 262,015 square miles of land
Which equals 7,304,558,976,000 square feet (262,015 x 27,878,400*) in Texas
Each person gets 1,000 square feet of land
The world population is currently almost 6 billion people (as of 1999)
6 billion x 1,000 square feet per person equals 6,000,000,000,000 square feet needed
Square feet in Texas

Square feet needed for 6 billion people 7,304,558,976,000
(subtract)
6,000,000,000,000
Left over space PROVING the above: 1,304,558,976,000 square feet

For information on the Georgia Guidestones CLICK HERE. Find out how the international gangster criminals [who own the money and have horned their way into ownership of all 50 of our United States along with the Federal Government, including the Supreme Court and 90 percent of Congress -- also the rest of the world, more or less] --

Anyway learn how these monsters want to reduce the world population to 500,000,000. Yes, that's MILLION.

For those who still insist that the planet is overcrowded and in need of depopulating of the humans -- I vote that all those who think the world is overpopulated, that they be the ones to volunteer to jump off a cliff and relieve the congestion!

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» you can pitch your tent in the swamp Posted by: nor cal surfer
» It's not just about space Posted by: Fang-Face Dreamweaver
Women are the only culprits
Posted by: paulaH on Jun 24, 2006 11:40 PM   
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SamFox said: Un-born children have commited no crime. Most are born of fornication, their mother's crime against God and themselves.

Oh, yes. those fornicating mothers fornicated alone and got pregnant ALL BY THEMSELVES! Yeppers, only women fornicate and perpetuate the crime against God and themselves. Of course, God is the one who invented fornication but that's besides the point! The women must be masturbating themselves pregnant because according to SamFox, only women are the fornicating criminals.

I think you need a course in the birds and the bees. It takes a sperm to fertilize an egg. A woman can't perpetuate this supposed "crime against God" without a man who is also perpetuating this "crime against God."

I found it interesting--not to mention amusing--how bent out of shape SamFox and resistance6 became when I mentioned that if I had to choose between celibacy or getting pregnant again, I would choose celibacy. They reacted like it was some capital crime for me to choose not to have sex! So I guess women are here only for the sexual enjoyment of men and to pop out babies. Get a life, boys. With your attitudes, though, I doubt if that life will involve much sex...

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» RE: Women are the only culprits Posted by: resistance6
» RE: Women are the only culprits Posted by: resistance6
» Humor in Ignorance Posted by: errandchild
» RE: Humor in Ignorance Posted by: resistance6
» RE: Humor in Ignorance Posted by: errandchild
» RE: Women are the only culprits Posted by: Fang-Face Dreamweaver
» RE: Women are the only culprits Posted by: resistance6
» RE: Women are the only culprits Posted by: Fang-Face Dreamweaver
Thanks resistance6
Posted by: paulaH on Jun 25, 2006 7:37 AM   
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You have made me laugh a number of times. Thanks. I needed that.

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Christo-Nazi sex control
Posted by: Fang-Face Dreamweaver on Jun 25, 2006 1:21 PM   
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During the 20th century, the control of women's reproductive lives marked the most despicable regimes. Among the first things the Nazis did upon seizing power in 1933 was to outlaw abortion. Family planning centers were closed, access to contraception made increasingly difficult and abortion criminalized. By 1943 the Nazis made abortion a capital offense. Stalin, too, outlawed abortion in 1936, and both dictators clearly saw control of women's reproduction as a part of the larger apparatus of state control.
--Steven Conn, In Struggle For Women's Freedom, Which Side is US On?, 23 Jun 2006

States that are repressive enough to control women's contraceptive options are just as likely to control other aspects of childbearing. The Romanian despot Nicolae Ceausescu made contraception illegal in 1966 for any woman who had fewer than five children. Not satisfied with that, 20 years later, in 1986, he created a monitoring system for all pregnant women, and miscarriages became subject to a criminal investigation. These acts forced women to have children whether they wanted to or not, and 200,000 of those children wound up in those infamous orphanages.
--Steven Conn, In Struggle For Women's Freedom, Which Side is US On?, 23 Jun 2006

So as Ohio and Louisiana rush to join South Dakota in attempting to criminalize abortion, we should ask: Which side are we on? Are we among those societies who permit women the full measure of their freedom or with those who control women's bodies in the service of a larger state agenda?

Remember that for many, abortion and contraception are no different. What they really want is to control the reproductive choices we all make in accordance with their particular ideas.
--Steven Conn, In Struggle For Women's Freedom, Which Side is US On?, 23 Jun 2006

The lesson of the 20th century is clear, at least to the rest of the world. Free societies allow their citizens to make their own reproductive decisions; repressive ones restrict them. Which side are we on when this administration votes with countries like Iran and Saudi Arabia to block funding for family planning initiatives in the United Nations?
--Steven Conn, In Struggle For Women's Freedom, Which Side is US On?, 23 Jun 2006

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Hitler was Pro-Abort
Posted by: resistance6 on Jun 25, 2006 6:50 PM   
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Hitler and Abortion

When the Nazis came to power in 1933 one of the first acts Hitler did was to legalize abortion. By 1935 Germany with 65 million people was the place where over 500,000 abortions were being performed each year. Although Hitler and his government encourged Aryan women to produce a lot of children, he left the matter of abortion and all its facets in the hands of a decidely pro- abortion medical establishment. Even in the midst of Nazi propaganda aimed at increasing the Aryan population, scores of Aryan women still chose to abort their unborn children. The medical publication Deutsches Aerzleblatt reported the abortions in Germany each year reached a half-million.

Further, a Nazi decree of October 19, 1941 established abortion on demand as the official policy of Poland. Hitler, however, expressed dissatisfaction with this policy. Abortion, he believed, should NOT be limited to Poland. He therefore ordered that abortion be expanded to all populations under the control of the "Ministry of the Occupied Territories of the East."

On July 22, 1942, the Fuhrer exhibited a highly positive attitude towards abortion as an indispensable method of dealing with the non-German populations in countries under Nazi control. "In view of the large families of the native populations," he asserted, "it could only suit us if girls and women there had as many abortions as possible." Hitler also personally announced that he "would personally shoot" any "such idiot" who "tried to put into practice such an order (forbidding abortion) in the occupied Eastern territories.

Despite contemporary attempts to characterize Hitler as opposed to abortion, the historical evidence clearly and overwhelmingly supports only one possible conclusion: Hitler and his regime were adamantly pro-abortion. To depict Hitler as anti-abortion is a ludicrous as calling him anti-genocide or pro- Jewish. Both Hitler and his government had little regard for human life perceived as subpar, whether born or preborn.

"Questions

1. If Hitler was opposed to abortion, why didn't he demand that Germany's strong law protective of human life before birth (enacted in 1871) be ratained?

2. If Hitler was opposed to abortion, why did he leave the matter of abortion in the hands of the most vociferous pro-abortion physicians and medical organizations in Germany?

3. If Hitler was opposed to abortion, why did he permit the establishment of guidelines and procedures for legal abortion in close conformity to those developed by the Berlin Chamber of Physicians, a prominent advocate of permisssive abortion under the guise of health?

4. If the Nazi government had such restrictive laws on abortion, why were there at least half-a-million abortions performed annually in Germany?

5. If Hitler was opposed to abortion, why did he say that 'in view of the large families of native population it could only suit us if girls and women there had as many abortions as possible'?

6. If Hitler was opposed to abortion, why did he order that abortion on demand be instituted as the prevailing policy for all countries under Nazi domination?

7. If Hitler was opposed to abortion, why did he threaten to shoot anyone who attempted to forbid abortions in Nazi occupied areas?

8. If the Nazi government was opposed to abortion, why did it issue an endless series of decrees legalizing the destruction of the unborn throughout the Eastern territories?" At risk of stating the obvious, some (perhaps, many) of the aborted were JEWS.

Source: Precious-Life Ministries

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Wantedness
Posted by: resistance6 on Jun 25, 2006 7:18 PM   
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"Wantedness" and Social Justice
by Wanda Franz, Ph.D.

In 1920, two German professors published a small book advocating the killing of people whose lives were "devoid of value." Nineteen years later, the professors' proposal became reality when Nazi Germany established a euthanasia program targeting physically and mentally disabled children, elderly patients in long-term care, and invalids from World War I.

Various estimates place the total number killed in this manner at 275,000 or more. In contrast to the killings in the concentration camps-which were motivated by openly-acknowledged racial, ethnic, and political hatred and
prejudice-the euthanasia program was justified as being beneficial to the victims.

Killing them would release them from an "unbearable life." In fact, in the German province of Brandenburg, Jewish patients were initially excluded from the euthanasia program because the local Nazis did not want to provide such a "benefit" to Jews.

Killing as a "benefit" to the victim was, however, not the only
justification advanced in defense of euthanasia. It was also justified as a cost-effective way to deal with the imperfect and disabled because they were a drain on the nation's resources and posed a burden to their families.

I gave you this bit of history in order to provide perspective for what is going on our country today.

Our country, too, has legal killings of the innocent in horrific numbers. Here, too, such killings are justified as a benefit to the victims. Here, too, financial considerations and the burdens faced by the relatives of the victims are considered sufficient excuse for killing.

Currently, there are about 1.2 million abortions a year. The abortion industry defends these abortions as serving a high moral purpose: "Every child, a wanted child," goes the Planned Parenthood slogan. In other words, the "unwanted" child is better off being dead: we are doing the child a favor. And a Planned Parenthood advertisement from 1985 proclaims: "The right to choose makes all other rights possible."

Planned Parenthood is, of course, not above appealing to baser motivations. An advertisement from its Minnesota affiliate blares: "Babies are loud, smelly and expensive. Unless you want one."

In fact, according to Planned Parenthood's own figures, only 3% of abortions are done for the sake of the mother's health; another 3% are done because of health problems of the baby; and 1% are reported for rape or incest. The vast majority of abortions, or 93%, are done for social reasons, because "babies are loud, smelly and expensive" and inconvenient.
What we have then is killing on a massive scale as a form of birth control.

Legalized abortion on demand places the unborn child in America today as much in jeopardy as a disabled person in Nazi Germany--except that abortion does not even involve the pro-forma review by a panel of experts which the Nazi program required. Indeed, the unborn child has no rights
whatsoever. There is no provision for defense on behalf of the victim, and there is no presumption of innocence until proven guilty; in fact, the victim's innocence is completely immaterial. The only thing that matters is "wantedness."

The plain fact is that social justice is impossible if our right to life and our personhood are contingent upon somebody else wanting us to exist. "Every child, a wanted child" ultimately implies "every person, a wanted person," and that implies the end of liberty and a state of injustice.

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» RE: Wantedness Posted by: Fang-Face Dreamweaver
» RE: Wantedness Posted by: resistance6
» RE: Wantedness Posted by: Fang-Face Dreamweaver
Hitler was an Aryan Supremicist, a Eugenicist, a Social Darwinist, like Margaret Sanger
Posted by: resistance6 on Jun 25, 2006 9:18 PM   
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It's called get rid of the "useless eaters," the "Unfit," the underclass, the non-Aryans, all who are not part of the master race.

Hitler's scientists and doctors first got rid of the German mentally retarded children, even the bedwetters, and the World War I amputees, those who were unfit and not perfect. From there it branched out to the Jews, Gypsies, and Christians also were part of the Holocaust.

We hear about the homosexuals who were sent to the concentration camps. These were the effeminate ones. The Butch homos were the ones running the SS. When they were finished with their sadistic torture of the fem homos they either killed them outright or sent them to the camps. The Butch homos were sadistic monsters who pretty much made up the leadership of Hitler's army.

And of course they were occultic Satanists as well.

But caring for the lives of the unborn? Maybe to experiment on them, torture them, use them and their mothers for diabolical experiments to see how different starvings and poisonings might affect the babies -- for the good of "science."

As the posting above points out, abortion was not only legal but aggressively promoted for non-Aryans. And as also pointed out, many thousands of Aryans were getting abortions also in Germany. The Death Culture was all-pervasive.

Just like in America today.

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A Lesson From Down Under
Posted by: Gazza126 on Jun 25, 2006 11:34 PM   
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It is now more than thirty five years since the state of South Australia became the first in that nation to decriminalise abortion. How this came about provides a salutory lesson for those on both sides of the abortion debate.

Because Australia's change of heart was all largely due to the efforts of one man, a lone reformer called Dr Bertrand Wainer.

Essentially, what Dr Wainer did was to prove to the people of Australia that the then ban on abortions simply didn't work.

He did this by proving, not once but twice, that in the nation's two most populace states, the police - who were supposed to enforce the ban on medical abortions - had in fact taken control of the illegal abortion industry and were running it as their own personal, private protection racket.

Women weren't being significantly deterred from getting abortions, but their lives and their reproductive futures were being endangered by a motley collection of medical frauds, many of whom worked under seriously unhygenic conditions and all of whom were operating under the protection of the very police force charged with putting them out of business.

It was a lose-lose situation.

No wonder the South Australian Government bit the bullet and decrininalised the procedure.

Once it did, the dam walls burst. Women began booking terminations from inter-state - travel companies even began organising weekend abortion trips to the South Australian capital, Adelaide.

Faced with the irrefutable evidence of all those women voting with their feet (and traveller's cheques), the other states quickly capitulated and also decriminalised.

Since then, there has been no significant debate on the issue in this country. Why? A) Because we know it a divisive issue that we'd rather not revisit and B) Because there are still enough of us around who remember Dr Wainer's pioneering work, and why we decided not to make criminals of women who don't want a baby (right now).

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» RE: A Lesson From Down Under Posted by: resistance6
» RE: A Lesson From Down Under Posted by: Aussie Kim
kelly Part 1
Posted by: Dean Cascio on Jun 26, 2006 12:17 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Of course that makes me the mother of a dead baby--well, a dead fetus: babies breathe on their own. There are many, many parents of dead babies out there--sids, spontaneous abortion, car accidents. You think this is a sign of being immoral? "

Of course I don’t think couples who lose their child through causes beyond their control are immoral. Duh, nice straw man attack. So much for your so called education. I only know of your immorality that you wrote about in your previous postings. Remember were you wrote about the abortion that made you such a good mother. I really liked the logic in that posting. “I had to kill my kid in order to be able to enjoy myself. Only then could I be the super mom that I am today!”

"As for those of us who chose to end a life--to kill--we were all quite aware of what we were doing and made the choice accordingly."

Well ya, I agree with you here. I never thought for a minute that you did not know you were killing your child. If you were not able to realize the nature of the killing then your actions could be excusable.


"Would I do it again? Yes. If the circumstances were the same. Would it make me sad? Yes: the loss of potential is always sad. Difficult decisions are always sad ones. Life tends to bring a lot of sadness and joy before it ends, and every choice we make precludes other paths. "

Below you write about your being a pagan so I would not expect any other conduct from you. Isn’t that what you’re seeking anyway… a life free of pain? Even at the expense of the life of your child? Never mind that your path choice cost a child his/her life. Good choice here mom. You’re a real upstanding person.


"The path that I would have been on was a bad one, and I am glad to have had the option to find another. My children would thank me for it, and would you call them immoral for that?"

Are you insane? I’m sure the dead one would beg to differ with your assessment! I would love to hear the conversation with the other ones. It would probably go something like this. “Hey kids you know how I killed the child that I felt would be a pain in my ass? Well I really need you guys to like me, you know for a little mommy self-esteem builder. Now let’s have a vote and I want to see those hands real high.”


"For all of the opportunities they have? For their wonderful father? Nah, you can't be THAT much of an asshole : )"

Sorry I am! By the way, that guy must really be a great dad ;)

"Addendum: there has never been a time in human history where infanticide was not practiced on a large scale."

You do not know what you’re writing about. There has never been a era, or society when infanticide was practiced on a large scale. Your wicca may be spouting this BS but throughout history infanticide has always been a shameful act. Only in the 20th century has man fallen so low as to murder unborn children on such a large scale. Even then, you try to cover-up your murder by claiming that the children were not yet fully human...that they’d thank you even! Shame on you! On second thought, you do know what you’re doing! You’re just using a cover story to indulge in ritualistic murder.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but abortion is the humane option.
Check out "The Kindness of Strangers" by John Boswell for a good history of the phenomenon. Abortion is much less cruel than abandoning a baby to starve in the marketplace, where MAYBE someone will pick it up and bring it home.

Ok you got me there. Abortion or infanticide. What’s your point? No where in any of your writing do you have any moral compass. (For the dimwitted, these aren’t the only two choices available).


Dean

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» RE: kelly Part II Posted by: Dean Cascio
» RE: kelly Part III Posted by: Dean Cascio
resistance6
Posted by: Dean Cascio on Jun 26, 2006 12:26 AM   
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Thanks Resistance6
Dean

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Abortion is biblical
Posted by: Fang-Face Dreamweaver on Jun 26, 2006 4:15 PM   
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Psalms 137:9 Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.

So, why really, are christo-fanatics so against others doing what they would do themselves? In my viewpoint, it is because they would rather reserve such a privilege for themselves. Which is all part of controlling the populace.

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America's Death Culture - Eating our Young
Posted by: thinkingsooner on Jun 26, 2006 11:04 PM   
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Wow! Is that ever correct! We want to be certain that every single fertilized egg is brought to term and birthed so that we can:
(1) make sure that most of them grow up impoverished;
(2) make sure that most of them grow up uneducated;
(3) make sure that most of them are denied a college education OR any other education so that they can earn a viable living;
(4) make sure that street drugs hold a mystique of liberation from poverty and a life of hopelessness, so that we can;
(5) be sure that the only alternative left is to join the military OR to suffer capital punishment.

Abortion for pro-lifers knows no age limit and cares less whether a viable life is possible. Age limits can be 6 weeks OR 20 years and viable life can mean breathing on their own OR merely surviving without hope.

WE ARE THE ONLY NATION IN THE WORLD THAT EATS ITS YOUNG!

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It'll take 10 seconds
Posted by: theresa2007 on Jul 7, 2006 12:24 AM   
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http://www.armyofgod.com/Baby6.htmlp

I don't care for the religious stuff on this site, but this picture really got to me. Just look at it for a few seconds, even if you think the pro-life movement is stupid. Put your abortion beliefs to test; if you're completely pro-choice then this picture should not bother you in the least. Take the test.

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