AlterNet / By Yvonne Bynoe
comments_imageCOMMENTS: 333

Rappers Aren't Feeling Oprah's Love

Oprah has refused to bring Ice Cube and Ludacris on her show. But it's not their music she hates -- it's their message of contempt for black women.
June 21, 2006  |  
 
 
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Ludacris was the first rapper to complain about Oprah. In the May 2006 issue of GQ, he said that Oprah only grudgingly invited him to her show because of his role in the Oscar-winning film "Crash." Ludacris called Oprah "unfair" and said that she edited his comments and lectured him about his music.

Then 50 Cent -- the infamous crack dealer turned rap artist -- joined the fray, telling the Associated Press that Oprah rarely invites rap artists on her show. Revealing his disdain for what he characterized as Oprah's older, female, and primarily white audience, he said, "[I] couldn't care less about Oprah or her show."

And now Ice Cube, the former frontman for controversial rap group N.W.A, has expressed his displeasure with Oprah. He told FHM magazine that he's been involved with three projects that were pitched to Oprah but has yet to receive an invite. "Maybe Oprah's got a problem with hip hop," Ice Cube said.

But contrary to what Ludacris, 50 Cent and Ice Cube have implied, Oprah has had rap artists on her show, but her tastes lean more toward John Legend and Alicia Keys than to Lil Wayne and Trina. To promote the film "Barbershop," Oprah invited rapper-actress Eve and comedian Cederic the Entertainer. Sean "P-Diddy" Combs was on before he ran the New York City marathon to raise money for local public schools. Incendiary rap artist-producer Kanye West, whose religious anthem "Jesus Walks" stirred up controversy among church folks, has also appeared on her show. Queen Latifah and LL Cool J have sat on Oprah's stage. More importantly, rap artist-producer Missy Elliott and "queen of hip hop" Mary J. Blige were both part of Oprah's Legends Weekend celebrating accomplished black women.

Earlier this month Oprah responded to her critics, explaining to MTV: "I respect other people's rights to do whatever they want to do in music and art. ... I don't want to be marginalized by music or any form of art. ... I feel rap is a form of expression, as is jazz. I'm not opposed to rap. I'm opposed to being marginalized as a woman."

In case Oprah's comments need some decoding, what she's saying is she believes rap artists should be free to record songs that call women "bitches" and "hos," and she should be equally free not to invite them on her show. Oprah does not have a problem with rap music -- she has a problem with rap that degrades women.

There's a particular arrogance that permeates Ludacris, 50 Cent and Ice Cube's statements, as if Oprah owes them a spot on her show. It's Oprah who has issues by refusing to celebrate black men who've made millions by demeaning black women?

If songs such as Ludacris' "Move Bitch" or NWA's "A Bitch Iz A Bitch" are not Oprah's cup of tea, then why should she be obligated to give them a platform? It doesn't seem to occur to these black men (or their supporters) that Oprah has the right not to use her show -- which is seen by 21 million viewers a week in 105 countries -- to promote performers whose work she feels is misogynistic or offensive. Oprah may not be kicking any black feminist credentials, but rather than blindly using her influence to "help the brothers," she is choosing not to support black entertainers whose work denies the humanity of black women.

The main focus of this brouhaha is not hip hop or rap, but the commercially successful subset of these genres that has transformed the public image of black women from flygirls to bitches, tricks, 'hos and chickenheads. This is the same sector of hip hop that has mainstreamed stripper culture, reduced the value of women to their body parts (remember Nelly's music video "Tip Drill?") and mocked the importance of love.

Rap shouldn't be banned or censored, but if living in an open society means that performers are free to express themselves, then that same freedom of expression must be extended to folks who aren't feeling it. Unfortunately, among black Americans there is little substantive debate about how popular culture affects our communities; any criticism of rap music, however slight or legitimate, is routinely dismissed as "hating."

In early 2004, Motivational Education Entertainment (MEE), a Philadelphia communications firm, released a nationwide study of 2,000 "urban" teens. The authors of the study concluded that, overall, the teens in their survey believed "black females are valued by no one."

The vast majority of the teens received their perceptions about life from the rap they regularly consumed. The study states that one of the most relevant changes in the hip hop generation (from their civil rights and black power movement predecessors) is an open disdain for black women. It makes perfect sense, then, that Oprah would not want to even indirectly advance messages that negatively impact young black women.

In his FHM interview, Ice Cube claims he deserves an invite to Oprah's show because of his "rags-to-riches story." Sure, Ice Cube has made millions -- but his success was founded on songs like NWA's "One Less Bitch," and the extremely raunchy "Giving Up the Nappy Dugout" (a solo release).

What Ice Cube fails to understand is that Oprah herself is the prototype for the "rags to riches" stories she highlights on her show; her life has been much more dramatic than those of many rap artists. She grew up dirt-poor in rural Mississippi to unwed parents. At age 9 -- and repeatedly thereafter -- she was sexually abused by a relative. She endured years of bad relationships, drug addictions, weight problems, and a career-changing demotion that moved her from her news anchor seat to co-hosting a morning talk show.

Oprah credits her fortune to education and faith; her shows reflect her strong belief in self-transformation. For over 20 years, Oprah has featured "success" stories on her show. Most of these have been women who became influential through perseverance and creativity, as well as people who have overcome adversity, tragedy or abuse to create richer lives for themselves, their families or communities. For Oprah, success is not predicated on amassing large sums of money; it is based on the contribution a person makes to improving his or her world.

Oprah has her detractors, mainly because she uses her show to promote the subjects she cares about. Implicit in all of the criticism from rap artists is the idea that because Oprah is black, she is expected to push every black entertainer's latest film or album, regardless of her opinion. The underlying sentiment is that if she is unwilling to set aside her values, then she can't be down for black people.

This position assumes that what is good for black entertainers is good for all black folks -- a highly arguable notion. There are many media outlets that expose U.S. rap artists to the global marketplace. But Oprah is virtually alone in her ability, through her selection of guests, to provide the world with a broader view of black Americans and their achievements. For black women, who are so commonly equated with the stereotypes of half-naked, gyrating women found in rap music videos, an opposing portrayal is welcome.

If the brothers feel they need more media visibility, they should use their millions to finance their own talk shows, instead of jocking Oprah Winfrey.
Yvonne Bynoe is the author of two books: "Stand & Deliver: Political Activism, Leadership and Hip Hop Culture" and the "Encyclopedia of Rap and Hip Hop Culture." She is also a regular panelist on the National Public Radio program News & Notes with Ed Gordon.
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Looking For Something To Complain About
[Report this comment]
Posted by: ZPaul on Jun 21, 2006 1:00 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Sure looks to me like these Rappers are just looking for something to complain about -- and more publicity. If you don´t like Oprah, why complain about not getting on her show? -- not only are these guys proficient in calling women "bitches", they seem to specialize in a lot of bitchin´themselves - if it´s about social injustice, fine, but complaining that Oprah´s not paying attention to black rappers when their rapping is heavily sprinkled with machismo -- they shouldn´t be surprised! "Brothers and sisters", my arse!

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Go, Oprah
[Report this comment]
Posted by: nonwhiteperson on Jun 21, 2006 2:23 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"The underlying sentiment is that if she is unwilling to set aside her values, then she can't be down for black people."

We're studying "Feminism: It's A Black Thing" from bell hooks' "Killing Rage: Ending Racism" for class which is very similiar to what Oprah is espousing, the idea that women of color should not have to put up with sexism to be down in their community. The misogyny in recent hip-hop is mostly a result of mainstream white record companies that exploit blacks and promote stereotypes and misogyny. I'm glad to see Oprah stand up for women of color.

» You Go Girl! Posted by: bttl
» RE: Go, Oprah Posted by: meadowlake59
» RE: Go, Oprah Posted by: nonwhiteperson
» RE: Go, Oprah Posted by: Aussie Kim
» RE: Go, Oprah Posted by: tfortner
» RE: Splitting Hairs Posted by: SpreadingANUS

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Oprah is absolutely correct!
[Report this comment]
Posted by: naryaquid on Jun 21, 2006 3:37 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The mysogyny in the music of the Rappers mentioned is clear...My only problem with the article is that I don't believe the word "bitch" as used by these "artists" is descriptive of only Black women...It's a hate word for women in general.

The word "bitch" when used as a synonym for "female", is no better than "nigger".

"Bitch" is to gender what "nigger" is to race.

» RE: Oprah is absolutely correct! Posted by: cosmicgold
» RE: Oprah is absolutely correct! Posted by: thinkingsooner

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Rappers Who Belittle Women Are SERVING THE RIGHT
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Posted by: ZPaul on Jun 21, 2006 4:06 AM   
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Yes, the Right just LOVES it when Rappers call women "bitches" and "hos" and talks about treating them violently! -- Because it´s helping to divide the ranks of the oppressed, and giving the Right more ammunition to use against them. Great job, Ice Cube et al!!! I´m sure the Right would be delighted to reward them, and award them, for sowing dissension.

» RE: Divide and conquer Posted by: ALEJANDRA

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Desperate Fools, making Racist Money!
[Report this comment]
Posted by: nobuko on Jun 21, 2006 4:16 AM   
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Apparently its how those disgusting rappers feel about ALL FEMALE members of their family, be it their mothers and sisters! I don't blame Oprah, no way would I have them on my show, spend money on any of their music, let alone, invite them to my house!

If this is the only way they can become rich is by continuing to EXPLOIT Black women, and men, well I feel sorry for their DESPERATE butts! They, like the Bush Administration will sell their souls for the almighty evil dollar!

I sincerely hope Oprah does a show exposing these fools, for the FOOLS they are!

Comments are closed-

Filthy-mouthed rappers now want RESPECT and ACCEPTANCE.
[Report this comment]
Posted by: itzamirakul on Jun 21, 2006 4:21 AM   
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The problem with "some" rappers who have gained "riches" is that now they also want "respect." Persons like Ice Cube and Ludakrus (sp?) will never gain any respect from me because of the filthy DISRESPECT that they show for others.

Why don't some of these rappers buy books or computers for the disadvantaged youngsters who still live in the communities from which they (said rappers) rose "from rags to riches?" Why don't they do something worthwhile for those less well-off then they are? Do something that would make Oprah and other talk show hosts WANT to have them as guests.

They talk about Oprah's audience being "older white women."
Well then, why do these rappers WANT to be on her show so very much then? That doesn't seem to me to be an audience for their music and lyrics....oh, right....Appearing on Oprah's show gives the impression of having the Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval.

And what makes Ice Cube think that Oprah should back his projects? Especially after he made jokes about Rosa Parks in one of his ridiculous movies? IMO, he thinks Oprah owes him something because they are both African American.

I'm glad that Oprah does not have these garbage mouth noise makers on her show even though I do not watch her show or voluntarily listen to rap music. I hope that she never has them on unless they publicly apologize for verbally degrading women in their lyrics and videos. They do not deserve the publicity.

Also, I hope that someone forwards this post and its comments to the rappers mentioned in this post.

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Just Curious . . .
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Posted by: FauxPorteno on Jun 21, 2006 5:21 AM   
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Why the hell do these three idiots want couch time with Oprah anyway? I can hardly think of a demographic less receptive to gangster rap than Oprah's viewers . . . I will be curious to see if Oprah invites Tom Cruise back on the show after his less than flagrant but nonetheless misogynistic behavior towards his young wife. That whole "remain silent during childbirth thing" in concert with other extreme beliefs espoused by the nut jobs of PsuedoScientology should be enough to render him persona non-grata but as he is white and much, much more influential in Hollywood I suspect he's going to be on quite soon with wife and child in tow . . .

I think these guys are basically idiots and I don't have an exceptionally high opinion of Oprah either but I think there may be a slight double standard as clarified in my example above. If Ice Cube were making $20 million a film and pulling major strings in Hollywood, I think we could expect to see him on the show . . . Money talks and bullshit walks at the end of the day - especially in America - particularly in Hollywood!

» RE: Just Curious . . . Posted by: naryaquid
» $money does rule, let's face it! Posted by: missjazzy5
» RE: Just Curious . . . Posted by: Angie
» RE: Just Curious . . . Posted by: FauxPorteno
» How do you define Misogyny? Posted by: eastcoker

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deapp
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Posted by: deapp on Jun 21, 2006 6:16 AM   
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Oprah is right on. She has come a long way from having very degrading people on her own show. Pips, hoes, prostitutes, "who my baby daddy is" people. She was one of the first to have these mis-fits on her early shows. But now she has conformed. Also, Oprah's own veiw of black men are not the best. All her movies present black men as rapist or whimps, even her present show. Maybe she's not over the bad images of black men in her own family. Maybe these rappers are not over bad black female images in theirs.

» RE: deapp Posted by: MKat
» Know your subject b4 speaking... Posted by: missjazzy5
» Of course--tv is free Posted by: Kelly

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American success stories, yet again
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Posted by: squattyroo on Jun 21, 2006 6:45 AM   
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The problem these "artists" have is reflected in their simple-minded yet so American equation of monetary success with importance, validation, & worthiness. What they want is their pitiful accomplishments recognized as being actually worth something when all they've done, like thousands of other people before them is sell a lot of records; when all they've done is bought a lot of tasteless bling, degrade the communities they come from, & made the Fat Nicks of the world happy.

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Oh no not Oprah!
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Posted by: Stano on Jun 21, 2006 6:46 AM   
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Now Alternet.org is in on the Oprah hype! Who cares what this woman says or does anyway. I can't exit a supermarket without seeing her stupid fat face. What's next - some scoop on Jennifer Anniston or Brad and Angelina?

» RE: Oh no not Oprah! Posted by: churchofone
» RE: Oh no not Oprah! Posted by: GEM-592
» RE: Oh no not Oprah! Posted by: Pinklillies

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The Author Has It Right
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Posted by: NoPCZone on Jun 21, 2006 7:16 AM   
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I'm no fan of the Church of Oprah Winfrey, but she is right on this one. It's her show, she owns it, her name is on the line and if you don't like it don't watch. It's not a news show nor does it pretend to be. Get over it.

Any person who, in their creative work or life, advances ideas that are demeaning to women or any other group of people is worthy of contempt. The problem is not the beat, the rhythm or the rhyme-- the problem is the attitude. It's not PC gone wild, it's just common sense and common decency.

When any person is demeaned, caricatured or stereotyped it demeans all people. I truly think that in time these 'artists' will be seen for what they really are: a bunch of modern 'steppin fetchits' in the vaudeville of Viacom-- the owner of MTV, VH1 & BET. The money is good, but at what price?

If anybody else in any other venue advanced a 'culture' of prison tats, gold teeth, gangs, pimp attitude, ghetto slang, violence, misogyny & objectification of women it simply would not be tolerated. Gangsta isn't the road to freedom- it's the road to serfdom.

Just like the days of old a handful of blacks are being well paid to perpetuate myths and stereotypes by doing a modern Mr Bojangles for Viacom and the RIAA members while the rest are sucked in and passed by. It's back to the future and the author and Ms Winfrey know it. Good for them.

» RE: The Author Has It Right Posted by: gothsnob

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Hip Hop and Twinkies
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Posted by: DennisDalrymple on Jun 21, 2006 7:18 AM   
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Hip Hop is to music what twinkies are to cake.
Right on Oprah!

» WHAT????? Posted by: dissidentpoet
» RE: WHAT????? Posted by: jonestown kool-aid
» RE: WHAT????? Posted by: DennisDalrymple
» RE: WHAT????? Posted by: dissidentpoet

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To Quote Ice Cube ...
[Report this comment]
Posted by: abstractmachine on Jun 21, 2006 7:21 AM   
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Black Woman is my manager, not in the kitchen/
So could you please stop bitchin' (1991)

I'm not saying that Ice Cube is a champion of feminisim but it absurd to jugde him based on a song (A Bitch iz a Bitch) he made in his late teens nearly 20 years ago.

On Ice Cube's first solo effort Ammerikkka's Most Wanted he featured and greatly raised the profile of "Yo-Yo" an early female hip-hop MC who is celebrated to this day as a pioneer feminist MC on the west coast gangsta rap scene.

These artists are complex individuals and it is absurd and counterproductive to judge them based on a song or a lyric when their ongoing actions may actually say something quite different about their beliefs as a person.

» RE: To Quote Ice Cube ... Posted by: Zelda_Too_Blue

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AS A RAPPER...
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Scientz on Jun 21, 2006 7:24 AM   
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I will tell you this...

People just don't overstand hip-hop. Not that we are looking for your understanding. When it comes to our music, we truly don't give a fuck what you think. At all. And haven't now for about thirty years.

But they don't--Oprah and the author of this article included.

And neither does anyone who posted before me, either.

C'est la vie.

John Legend and Alicia Keys are NOT rap artists Yvonne. They are R&B artists a la Boyz II Men--typically the softer side of urban culture. Sorry, but please try again.

I saw a post that "bitch" is to gender what "nigger" is to race. You're an idiot. Anyone uselessly offended by what they view as mysogynistic lyrical content should listen to Jay-Z's "Bitches N Sistas" for a concise explanation of the dichotomy between the two. Anyone who didn't know there was a difference should not speak about hip-hop.

Today, I will have to play the part of cry0fan.

Gender Race Gender Race Gender Race Gender Race Gender Race Gender Race Gender Race Gender Race Gender Race Gender Race Gender Race Gender Race Gender Race Gender Race Gender Race Gender Race Gender Race Gender Race Gender Race Gender Race Gender Race Gender Race Gender Race Gender Race Gender Race Gender Race Gender Race Gender Race Gender Race Gender Race

It's actually kind of sad how effectively they divide and conquer you easily offended idiots.

» RE: AS A RAPPER... Posted by: squattyroo
» RE: AS A RAPPER... Posted by: Scientz
» RE: AS A RAPPER... Posted by: cephalis
» RE: AS A RAPPER... Posted by: Scientz
» RE: AS A RAPPER... Posted by: ZPaul
» RE: AS A RAPPER... Posted by: Scientz
» RE: AS A RAPPER... Posted by: hannah
» RE: AS A RAPPER... Posted by: Scientz
» RE: AS A RAPPER... Posted by: hannah
» RE: AS A RAPPER... Posted by: Scientz
» yeah he would have Posted by: dissidentpoet
» RE: BETTER LYRICS! Posted by: billevans
» RE: BETTER LYRICS! Posted by: billevans
» RE: BETTER LYRICS! Posted by: Scientz
» RE: BETTER LYRICS! Posted by: billevans
» RE: BETTER LYRICS! Posted by: Scientz
» RE: BETTER LYRICS! Posted by: billevans
» RE: BETTER LYRICS! Posted by: Scientz
» is it art or just selling? Posted by: dissidentpoet
» RE: BETTER LYRICS! Posted by: Zelda_Too_Blue
» RE: AS A RAPPER...Oh Puh-leeze Posted by: billevans
» RE: AS A RAPPER...Oh Puh-leeze Posted by: billevans
» clarification Posted by: peritonlogon
» RE: clarification - apology Posted by: Scientz
» RE: AS A RAPPER...Oh Puh-leeze Posted by: Zelda_Too_Blue
» ha ha ha ha! Posted by: dissidentpoet
» RE: AS A RAPPER... Posted by: Sanballot
» I'M AN IDIOT? Posted by: Scientz
» RE: I'M AN IDIOT? Posted by: Sanballot
» RE: I'M AN IDIOT? Posted by: Scientz
» RE: I'M AN IDIOT? Posted by: ZPaul
» RE: I'M AN IDIOT? Posted by: Scientz
» RE: I'M AN IDIOT? Posted by: ZPaul
» RE: I'M AN IDIOT? Posted by: Scientz
» WHAT THE HELL DID YOU JUST SAY? Posted by: dissidentpoet
» whew Posted by: dissidentpoet
» RE: whew Posted by: Scientz
» RE: WHAT THE HELL DID YOU JUST SAY? Posted by: Zelda_Too_Blue
» RE: AS A RAPPER... Posted by: dagnymeetsassisi
» HOW WOULD YOU KNOW? Posted by: Scientz
» RE: HOW WOULD YOU KNOW? Posted by: dagnymeetsassisi
» SISTERS VS BITCHES Posted by: Scientz
» Hey ZPaul! Posted by: Scientz
» RE: Hey ZPaul! Posted by: ZPaul
» RE: Hey ZPaul! Posted by: Scientz
» RE: You Can Expect... Posted by: ZPaul
» Glad to be an idiot... Posted by: binkey
» RE: SISTERS VS BITCHES Posted by: Zelda_Too_Blue
» RE: AS A RAPPER... Posted by: babs
» RE: Wanksta? Posted by: Scientz
» RE: Wanksta? Posted by: amatullah
» RE: Wanksta? Posted by: Scientz
» RE: Wanksta? Posted by: amatullah
» RE: Wanksta? Posted by: Scientz
» RE: Wanksta? Posted by: amatullah
» RE: Wanksta? Posted by: Scientz
» RE: AS A RAPPER... Posted by: mayangrl
» RE: AS A RAPPER... Posted by: Scientz
» RE: AS A RAPPER... Posted by: Kelly

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Oprah has every right - so I wonder...
[Report this comment]
Posted by: kpetin on Jun 21, 2006 7:33 AM   
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Do you think Oprah (had she been given the chance) would have invited Tupac Shakur on her show?

I can understand the argument about "misogynistic (aka radio) rap" and the negativity that comes from ignorant and retarded lyrics. But I wonder how she feels about the duality of artists like Pac, or other artists with both "positive" and "negative" messages.

Just wondering. I mean - it is her show. She is minding her own business and not "hating" on rappers at all really...

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Simile
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Charaud on Jun 21, 2006 7:40 AM   
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If Ice Cube and Ludakris deserve a spot on Oprah then likewise so don't Tom Delay and Duke Cunningham and Abramoff. If not-Why Not?

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Outdoes the KKK
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Posted by: laredo on Jun 21, 2006 8:09 AM   
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Rap outdoes the KKK when it comes to generating racial stereotypes of both sexes of the black population. I thought that the ultimate absurdity arrived during the 90s when a black-owned radio station in Chicago was criticized because it advertised that it did not play rap music.

Good for Oprah and good for that radio station.

» RE: Outdoes the KKK Posted by: InfinityInc
» WHAT!!!???!!! Posted by: missjazzy5
» ummmm...no, i don't think so Posted by: dissidentpoet

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Hooray for Oprah!!!!!
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Bev on Jun 21, 2006 8:13 AM   
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Smart and caring person, yes she is.

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i like ludacris, ice cube & oprah
[Report this comment]
Posted by: saywhat? on Jun 21, 2006 8:14 AM   
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but pop culture icons are not my role models, someone like angela davis is, who fights for the poor on death row....oprah makes me feel better than pat robertson does, but I never got a car from her.

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I completely agree with the author
[Report this comment]
Posted by: agent210 on Jun 21, 2006 8:17 AM   
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Oprah is under no obligation to put these men on her show because she and they are Black.. That is the problem with the Black community is that if GOD FORBID a person has a different mind set or opinion, they jump all over them. We are not allowed to view things from more than one opinion.. We are supposed to be a monolith.

I say this as professional, grad school educated Black woman who had Black people not like me because I speak "proper" English.

I think these men will continue to sell their women hating lyrics to all who are interested in them. Plus they are already rich so its not as if not being on Oprah will somehow keep food out of their mouths..

They should stick to Bad Entertainment Television (BET) to promote their stuff.

» perfect! Posted by: dissidentpoet

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MC Bush
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Posted by: Money Over People on Jun 21, 2006 8:19 AM   
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As someone who enjoys country music as much as rap - and rarely ever hear anyone criticize Johnny Cash the way they criticize Tupac Shakur - I wonder why the topic of Oprah inviting or not inviting anyone would get people so upset?

Also, Oprah's excuse for not inviting 50 Cent or Ice Cube is that they are demeaning women with their lyrics, but I seem to recall that O had Mrs. Bush on her show. I mean, yes, I would agree that there is a good chunk of rap lyrics that are demeaning to women, but George Bush has actually signed laws that are demeaning to women, gays, minorities and every other group that isn't addicted to KKKristianity in this country.

Is the logic that lyrics are more harmful than laws?

I've never cared for Oprah. She's always come across as rather plastic to me. I understand that it is television and there is some amount that is always polystyrene, but the real Oprah isn't hard to find... Here's what her take is on being rich:
"I have lots of things, like all these Manolo Blahniks. I have all that and I think it's great. I'm not one of those people like, 'Well, we must renounce ourselves.' No, I have a closet full of shoes and it's a good thing."

I wouldn't ask you to "renounce" yourself Oprah. How about a little modesty, though? Maybe you can sell those Manolo Blahniks (whatever the hell they are) and buy some homeless folks a couple meals?

It's her show and she can do what she wants with it. Rappers can say what they want to as well. The two don't have to like each other, invite the other to parties, or even pretend to respect one another.

However, don't go around acting high and mighty when the seething hypocrisy is easily found out.

Go through Oprah's guest list from the last fifteen years and tell me that she's never had on any guest that is demeaning to women.

When she starts walking the talk, I'll start to consider her opinions more.

Same as GW.

» RE: MC Bush Posted by: saywhat?
» RE: MC Bush Posted by: ZPaul
» RE: MC Bush Posted by: MKat
» RE: MC Bush Posted by: Money Over People
» RE: MC Bush Posted by: dshomsky
» RE: MC Bush Posted by: Money Over People

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The True Hypocrisy of This Article
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Posted by: lpdigital on Jun 21, 2006 8:25 AM   
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Unfortunately, among black Americans there is little substantive debate about how popular culture affects our communities; any criticism of rap music, however slight or legitimate, is routinely dismissed as ‘hating.’

The reason why is because people like Oprah would rather use her show to promote Tom Cruise instead of confronting people like Ice Cube.

Solving this issue requires intelligent dialogue by informed people. Someone like Ice Cube or music critic Greg Tate should be invited on Oprah not to promote his commercial project but to directly explain their lyrics and attitudes. That’s called dialogue. Right now, things exist on the level of a schoolyard shouting match.

There is a ridiculous amount of ignorance and generalizations on this thread. It shouldn’t be a surprise given that the author of this piece thinks that John Legend is hip hop. That’s truly embarrassing.

Rappers don’t need Oprah and Oprah doesn’t need rappers. But the Black Community needs them both to use their mutual fame and notoriety to engage in a substantive debate with the purpose of educating everyone on both sides as well as those on the sidelines.

The ‘what’s mine is mine’ mentality leaves everyone poor and ignorant and perpetuates the existing stereotypes. Using our collective resources to confront this issue is the only thing that will improve our community.

Boycotting ideas and people promotes ignorance, as evidenced in this thread.

» Blah blah blah Posted by: eastcoker

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I feel you Oprah
[Report this comment]
Posted by: eastcoker on Jun 21, 2006 8:29 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And I totally agree. As the estranged wife of a black man that ran with the likes of Snoop Dog down in South Central LA, I *totally* know what you are writing about. Forget it! These black man are setting a *horrid* example for the world. They are giving voice to the most *heinous* and fallen and degraded aspect of the masculine psyche. Yuck. All the other men follow suit. I can't stand it. Somebody needs to either
1. Turn these guys out
2. Strip 'em and turn 'em out and make 'em shake their naked booty up on stage and see how they like that!
Repulsive!

» RE: I feel you Oprah Posted by: MEL810

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Right On Oprah!!!
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Kym525 on Jun 21, 2006 9:02 AM   
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Though I sometimes have issues with Oprah and her show, as a black woman I am SO glad that she is taking a stand against those rappers who perpetuate negative and demeaning stereotypes against black women and our community in general. These rappers may be rags to riches success stories, but their money comes from disparaging the very women who have always been the backbone and strength of the black community.

If they want to be on television, there's BET - get to it!

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Old school
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Posted by: nonwhiteperson on Jun 21, 2006 9:07 AM   
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Look at the options given black men in this society and you'll know why many get the big bucks from these conquer and divide record companies. Some people listen to it because it has a beat. Old school hip hop was not about misogyny because it hadn't been coopted by white interests yet.

» RE: Old school Posted by: MKat
» RE: Old school Posted by: Kym525
» RE: Old school Posted by: repo
» RE: Old school Posted by: Kym525
» RE: Old school Posted by: repo
» i agree Posted by: dissidentpoet

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The best article I've read in a very long time.
[Report this comment]
Posted by: ddsharper on Jun 21, 2006 9:53 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Regarding these verbal abusers of women attacking Oprah, I must say that this article by Yvonne Bynoe was well written, succinct and very much captured the gist of the issue. I was so impressed that half way through the story I clicked on the author's name to read other articles and found only this one. I plan on searching the web because I stopped reading blogs and most rags, on and off the internet, due to having to wade through mediocre writing, endure excessive leanings to the left or right without a point being made and seeing article after article ramble on ad nauseam. I truly enjoyed this piece and view it as a work of true journalism. Bravo. I will mail Oprah this one! Thank you so much for making the issue clear.

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Oprah, can we talk?
[Report this comment]
Posted by: rgjr on Jun 21, 2006 10:03 AM   
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Awhile back, Rev. Calvin Butts of Abyssinian Church in New York lead a campaign against Snoop Dogg CD “Doggystyle”. He started the campaign by running over Snoop’s CDs with a steamroller and was throughout the press talking about how the CD’s lyrics were demeaning to Black women, specifically, and Black people, generally. And he was right.

But during an interview with MTV, Snoop was asked about Rev. Butt’s efforts and he responded, thoughtfully, by saying that the main problem he had was the Rev. Butts had never tried to talk to him directly. “My grandmother goes to church,” he said, “and maybe if he had talked to me I might have changed up a taste.” The interviewer then went back to Rev. Butts, who when asked if he had ever tried to contact Snoop, stammered a little then said “maybe I should give him a call.”

Oprah has every right and is right to take the position she has taken on rap that is degrading to women. But she has also taken on the responsibility to use her fame and power to change people’s lives for the better, so why not do that with these rappers? You don’t change the behavior of young people by pushing them away when they do wrong. You change them by engaging them, telling them they’re doing wrong and letting them know that you expect them to do better.

In fact, I think the rappers mentioned in the article are all but inviting Oprah to say to them what she expects for them. If they didn’t care about Oprah’s opinion, they would not have said anything in the first place. For example, Oprah’s recent visit on Ed Lover’s radio show here in NYC resulted in him changing his catch phrase of “It’s a celebration, bitches,” which he pulled from Dave Chappelle’s parody on Rick James, to “It’s a celebration!” The change would have never taken place if she had not gone on the show.

So, why not have a show with rapper on this subject? It might change some behavior and it would get great ratings!

» RE: Oprah, can we talk? Posted by: lpdigital
» RE: Oprah, can we talk? Posted by: eastcoker
» RE: Oprah, can we talk? Posted by: lpdigital
» RE: Oprah, can we talk? Posted by: eastcoker

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Wow
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Posted by: nonwhiteperson on Jun 21, 2006 10:20 AM   
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Wow, after reading this article, I did not expect so much support for women of color. Maybe we've turned a corner on respect for women of color

» RE: Wow Posted by: ZPaul
» unfortunately Posted by: dissidentpoet
» RE: Wow Posted by: philame

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Not all African American artists are rappers
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Posted by: nikitasan on Jun 21, 2006 10:57 AM   
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Alicia Keys & John Legend are not rap artists; they both play R&B. If the author can't something as basic as that correct it just dilutes the rest of the story.

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I Guess I am a HATER!!
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Posted by: Sanballot on Jun 21, 2006 11:14 AM   
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You know when I was growing up Hip Hop was the theme of conscieness that helped sway a nation up and out of ignorance and poverty. Those days are over. We Afromerican Males have sytematically been giving all of our strides that we made decades before back to the ruling establishment. It would seem that because now these Men who proclaim to have become, are upset that they can't get on Oprah??!! Come on I say!! Take the pillow from your head and put a book there. These kinda of people help divide and conquer our youth. By oppressing their minds with the poison of the streets??? What streets?? did you grow up there? Bet not and if any of them did they are certainly not there anymore!! so why continue to talk about it. We all know the plight of wence we came! we do not need these ignorant toms who sit by the record producers door to speak their regurgitative ryhmes and beats to our inpressionable youths. Niggers and Hoes is what they have now become because they still hold no power. They continue to suck the life out of our youth by Promoting the very thing that we faught soo hard against OVERT and COVERT OPPRESSION!! I for one am tired as hell at the rappers and their music and videos. Leave me something for the imagination. Tell me about truth and promise so that through the ryhmes a people can learn to like themselves again. We have always been a people that communicated through song. It lead us through a desperate time in our history and still today it brings us joy! It is such a shame that these Lyricis would rather denegrate their own people For a dollar that is'nt even worth the paper its printed on anymore. Time for the bullshit to end!! Time to take back our young from these vultures that would like to take their souls right to hell along with themselves. Wake up People! Giving your money to that indusrty is not helping our cause it is hindering it!! And the more this type of music is played the more our youth are at risk. Its not the guns and the drugs its the miusic that continues to provide a fictitious ideal of Gangsters to our boys which in turn allows for a fictitious ideal of our Baby Girls. Iam Tired of it! Iam tired of listening I am tired of hearing it I am just plain ol tired of it all together. The music sucks its all the same ol shit ( there are a few that are positive however; Common, Mos Def ... etc) the rest are full of themselves and that money. I can't even understand them anymore. I feel so disconected from our music that I now listen to only Gospel and Jazz and those artist in the group I have mentioned above. So Sad we are, that we do the same thing to our own that many cry about in their music, politics, carreers. And to end because I could go on and on all day. Why is it that the Jail mentality of Men with braids or pants hanging down or talking in incoherent languge makes you a man? And the ones who are actually working for the better of him or herself and family is seen as selling out? This is what needs to change, the Ideology of the Black People!!! Just for all those who wonder; I am An Afromerican Male 36 years old and tired of this Black jail mentality Shit that I see everyday!! Rappers go to hell and stop spreading your vile behavior. To end for real now, Like Marvin Gay said "Whats Going On"?

» RE: good for you sanballot Posted by: cold2touch
» RE: I Guess I am a HATER!! Posted by: philame
» RE: I Guess I am a HATER!! Posted by: Sanballot

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this is funny
[Report this comment]
Posted by: droscify on Jun 21, 2006 11:28 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I see that there is a lot of general disdain for hip hop among the comments posted. did you ever stop to think that maybe hip hop was no more homogenous than rock and roll which easily has just as many mysogynistic artists and songs as does hip hop? how about the fact that hip hop probably has a a much greater plurality of artists who don't create mysogynist content than those who do? 3rd, whoever said the agenda of the radical right is far more hurtful to women than any SONG will ever be is absolutely correct.

peace to open minded people

» RE: this is funny Posted by: Kym525
» this isn't funny Posted by: lpdigital
» RE: this isn't funny Posted by: Kym525
» RE: this isn't funny Posted by: lpdigital
» RE: this isn't funny Posted by: Kym525

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Most Maintstream hip hop is a joke
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Techubus on Jun 21, 2006 1:13 PM   
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That fellow up above that claims to represent hip hop has illustrated to me exactly why mainstream rap is a total joke.

To actually use, as a defense of his position, the amount of money 50 cent makes (so he must be right) is completely absurd.

I'm no rapper, but I am a musician and have always been a big fan of underground music in general. Punk, Rap, Reggae, Jungle, Ska, Psychobilly/rockabilly.. ad naseum. My point here is the corruption of a genre. Punk experienced the same thing and now you have flavorless cookie cutter hacks on MTV pretending they're punk rockers. Same thing with hip hop. As Pharcyde put it: 'these nigga's have sold their souls and now their souls are hollow'.

I personaly can't stand ANY of the crap they play on rap stations these days. It wasn't until I got XM radio and found the old school station that I began enjoying the music again. There used to be real positive messages in these artists music. Actually there still is, it's just you have to dig into the indie scene to find it. Not suprisingly the best talents are found there too.

I will only agree with that guy on one point and that is the distiction many rappers make between respectable women and what they deem hoes. I've listened to this music long enough to know the difference is pretty clear. Their are exceptions but for the most part the 'bitches' are the groupies and generally shallow women who chase after them because they are rich and famous. The sort of woman you might enjoy a fling with but would never contemplate marrying. Other than that, pretty much everything everyone else is saying in this thread is true.

» I AM NOT A FAN OF IT, EITHER Posted by: Scientz

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Oprah
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Posted by: CatDad on Jun 21, 2006 1:23 PM   
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Oprah is a market-driven entity which has turned human suffering (specifically female issues of obesity) into a billion-dollar commodity. Decisions about who gets on the show are market-driven based on her female demographic. Misogynist rappers are not welcome by this market segment. Oprah is the living embodiment of the pseudo “personal transformation” ideology that America’s ruling elite encourages among the downtrodden classes. In this ideology, there’s NOTHING wrong with our economic/social system....the problem is YOU.....you need to charge your outlook/attitude.... with some new-age feel good religion thrown in. Mr. Joe Bluecollar...Have you lost your high-paying union job to slave/free-trade labor to China or Mexico? You need to change how you FEEL about that. Don’t bother trying to address the issues that caused you to loose your job. Just change your attitude about loosing your job and all will be okay. The only thing that it is important is for America’s top 2% richest citizens to continue to keep hoarding even more of the nation’s wealth....

» RE: Oprah Posted by: FauxPorteno
» RE: Oprah Posted by: GEM-592
» RE: Oprah Posted by: philame

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Their lyrics and videos promote a negative lifestyle...
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Posted by: Callibrarian on Jun 21, 2006 1:33 PM   
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I am so tired of seeing that 95% of black music videos display black women like we're hunks of meat at the butcher shop---everyone can look, and for a cheap enough price you can take us home. I am tired of being called names, of being shown as nothing but an ignorant object whose sole purpose in life is to chake by butt. I'm sick of the music industry as a whole for being unable to produce much original work, and I'm tired of the original works consisting of lyrics such as "Booty, Booty, Booty!" I don't want to hear how every single city you go you see the same hos. I don't care that you feel that if your homeys can't have none it ain't no fun. Don'y tell me, "Move bitch, get out the way." I don't want to hear about the sweat dripping off your balls. But I have to hear it and put up with the society this culture promotes, the ignorant one that throws aside education. intelligence, and self value. This weekend while I put on a library book sale I had to watch black teen buy more sodas than books, telling me they don't read. I listen to people curse out security guards because they think it's acceptable to call people names and curse people out. I have to watch a generation, not just of black people, but young people in general being taught a lifestyle that is unhealthy and unsustainable. And yet rappers get mad because Oprah knows her demographic well enough not to put them on the show. Go figure.

» Symptom....Not the Cause Posted by: CatDad
» RE: Symptom....Not the Cause Posted by: FauxPorteno
» RE: Symptom....Not the Cause Posted by: WhuThe?!?
» RE: Symptom....Not the Cause Posted by: WhuThe?!?
» exactly Posted by: dissidentpoet

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On a semi-related note
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Posted by: WhuThe?!? on Jun 21, 2006 4:22 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I totally agree with Oprah for ignoring these greedy, woman-hating fools who do nothing but harm their own race and make themselves look foolish for "riches". I say they harm their own race because they could make the world a better place for disadvantaged black youth through their immense influence but instead they teach them to hate women and admire pimping and drug-dealing. They also reinforce negative stereotypes about blacks with their “art” through the images they portray. Oprah should speak out against them, not sure why she does not do that--She would be doing society a big favor if she did. And if it hurt her income a little, she’d still be filthy, filthy, I mean filthy-rich. Perhaps if she spoke out strongly, it might turn off some of the voters she hopes to convince to vote for warmonger Hillary Clinton in 2008. (Yes, she has encouraged her to run for president)
I titled this post "On a semi-related note" because, as mentioned in several posts, these rap "artists" are indirectly an instrument for the right wing, by programming the youth early in life to be more preoccupied with impressing others with superficiality than learning to be concerned about what is going on around them. Those youth will never become a threat to the government. Sadly, many modern rock bands are now acting as instruments for the right wing cause as well and I want Alternet readers to be aware of just a couple of which I am aware. Does anybody remember "3-Doors Down" (Hit song Kryptonite)? They played to promote George Bush during his election campaign. Also, very shortly after the war started I went to a "Godsmack" concert, and one redneck, famous (I wish I could remember their name right now) rock band went on blabbering on against the Dixie Chicks for being anti-murder, and I felt so upset and was hoping Godsmack would get up there and put them in their place. At that time I knew nothing about Godsmack’s politics other than their singer claims to practice Wicca, which as I understand has to do with natural energies. All those I have known that practice Wicca have been liberal and peaceful, so I assumed… At that point I just liked the angry, rebellious sound of hard rock, and am so used to rock-n-roll being used to protest injustice and war (I grew up in the 60s-70s). Well, it did not happen as I hoped. Their concert started with a big screen over the stage and a jet fighter flying along, with a heavy rock beat in the background and a voice going on about how when freedom is under threat we must fight for our freedoms. It felt like a propaganda film put together by the military. I even wondered if the band was financially threatened and forced to do that (still no excuse), or threatened with worse. Or perhaps they just fell for the lies. Or maybe they believe in settling disagreements by murdering innocents. Maybe they have even seen the light by now. Anyway, what they were going around doing, using rock-n-roll to encourage evil, was sickening. So, with the voice going on about preserving freedom (and we all knew they were referring to a pre-emptive (assuming their was ever even a threat) strike against Iraq), the heavy rock beat, and the image glorifying the death jet, the jet turns toward the crowd, shoots balls of fire, followed by big on-stage explosions, the band entering the stage, and the crowd going wild. It was so sad, nearly everybody was just loving it, the sacrilegious abuse of what was once a protest art form. I felt so alone in the crowd.
Tell everybody you know about these bands. Also, Rob Zombie is now touring with Godsmack, and I assume you can tell a lot about somebody by looking at the people with whom they associate. Some letters to these traitors and spreading the news about their true colors certainly would be in order.

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Old School Metal
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Posted by: Kym525 on Jun 21, 2006 4:50 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
To those who make the comparison between old school metal and some rap/hip-hop misogyny, I've got to shake my head in wonder. Firstly, just because one group does something doesn't make it all right, so let's toss that lame excuse out the door.

Secondly, would anyone consider Whitesnake misogynistic? White Lion? Bon Jovi? Cinderella? Dokken? Judas Priest (especially considering what we know about Rob Halford)? Dio? Ozzy? Black Sabbath? Metallica? Iron Maiden? Saxon? Ratt? Quiet Riot? Def Lepppard? Kiss? Guns n' Roses (okay, I'll give you that one, but it was just that one song and everybody ripped them a new one over it).

Now before you answer, be sure you've actually *listened* to this stuff. Yes, I know most of these groups had video girls (i.e. Tawny Kitaen), but for some reason, I just can't quite remember Don Dokken ever calling a girl a bitch or a ho. And Dio was so into medieval and knights and stuff, I don't think he ever sang all that much about women. Bon Jovi mentioned something about 'giving love a bad name'. Yes, they all had their groupies, as does any musician.

» I love Metallica and Nirvana! Posted by: eastcoker

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Bring it back...
[Report this comment]
Posted by: gerly on Jun 21, 2006 5:20 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Let me deflect any reference to my handle, first with a preface. I have reclaimed another hybrid of this handle and use it when I write music reviews. You know, like the Riot Grrls.

I'm pretty sure I'll be perceived as an outlier on the female curve with what I'm about to chortle. I've written music reviews and DJ'd as a hobby off and on for the better part of 20 years -- listening to and writing about all music genres, rap and hiphop included.

I will say, yeah, hear hear! keep this thread on target. Agreed, and amen! on the operatives 'opportunity to confront' the OP used. Or should I say, Oprah missed an opportunity to confront?

How can boundaries be transgressed and learning evolve if there is not a forum to enlighten and better understand motivations? What an opportunity missed to enlighten a veritable plethora of peoples. In 1997 I wrote a hip-hop retrospective...

As much as I loathe digressing into the realm of racism, because of its proliferation these days, I do feel it warrants dicussion. Some institutions [the White Anglo-Saxon Patriarchy comes to mind first and foremostly] prefer to take a xenophobic approach towards the Hip-Hop/Rap musical genres; denonument and hypercriticism is the default reaction, instead of understanding and learning. Not since the era of New Wave in the early `80s have two musical genres made such an impact in the music biz; let the record show, the sales of music from these genres are astronomical. Granted, sexism, racism, and violence don't rate very high in my book either, but other genres of music could be criticized on these topics as well.[It's not my policy to harp on one particular musical genre, but what about the lyrical content spewed by rock artists like Marilyn Manson, Cop Shoot Cop, Revolting Cocks, Nine Inch Nails, all the Goth bands, all the Nazi punk rock bands, and the list goes on, etc., etc., etc....]

So why are Rap/Hip-Hop, especially Gansta Rap artists typically under heavier scrutiny and attack? I think one answer is because this artform has created empowerment; and empowerment of the oppressed is dangerous for those in charge, and for those in control of information and resources. Don't get me wrong, I think that all forms of media should be analyzed, but with insightfulness and responsibility that begs the question, "Why?" Like musical artists of other genres, I think Hip-Hop/Rap artists write and sing about that that they know-----oftentimes, it is about the desolate and oppressed lifestyle that coincides with life in the ghetto. And, for the most part, it ain't pretty. Albeit, lyrics of controversy and contention.

Without revealing too much about my own trials and tribulations as a woman of color who is constantly challenged with the barrage of indignities imposed on me by social agencies, administrators, other peoples, etc. and the subsequent resultant emotional duress, shame, frustration, and anger imposed on me, allow me to share my appreciation/opinion on these particular musical genres. And, although I do not condone violent actions, or succumbing to drugs or alcohol as an answer, I do in fact overwhelmingly understand why people do in fact act out by engaging in these mannerisms to quell their precarious, uncertain realities. All too often we gravitate to the bad instead of the good, and lyrical content in these particular musical genres are oftentimes taken out of content, and therefore misinterpreted. To paraphrase the band Test Department, I think we live in "a society that believes more in conspicuously favoring its wealthy citizens, its corrupt and denies its citizens basic human rights" which is why I write this review. I personally think Hip-Hop/Rap are always on the short-end of the stick. And, to this end, I feel stongly that extreme conditions demand extreme responses: I strongly believe Rap/Hip-Hop serves this purpose to one end.

» Here here! Posted by: eastcoker
» RE: Here here! Posted by: gerly

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Bring it back... more bla bla
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Posted by: gerly on Jun 21, 2006 5:21 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I couldn't fit everything in, in my previous post. Here's the rest of the bla bla

Below is a small sampling of releases/artists frome these genres whose releases from this decade I feel deserve a peep, a lap, and a listen. I feel they deserve this because not necessarily because of the controversy, but because of their compostionally musical prowess and talent, for their lyrical sense of compromise, intelligence, introspect, insight, sense, and sensibility based on their environments, and what they know....which is not to say, all persons can relate.

Anything by CRAIG MACK

Anything by OUTKAST

Anything by SISTA SOULJAH

Anything by TOTALLY INSANE

1991

QUEEN LATIFAH Nature of a Sista'(Tommy Boy)

1992

PETE ROCK & CL SMOOTH Mecca and the Soul Brother (Elektra)

1993

ED O.G. & DA BULLDOGS Roxbury 02119 (Chemistry)

THA ALKAHOLIKS 21 & Over (Loud/RCA/BMG)

1994

RAPPIN' 4-TAY Don't Fight the Feelin'(Chrysalis/EMI)

THE ROOTS Do You Want More? (DGC)

GIL SCOTT-HERON "Message to the Messengers" (TVT)

» RE: Bring it back... more bla bla Posted by: wordlife302

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One of the best articles ever put on this site.
[Report this comment]
Posted by: mmeetoilenoir on Jun 21, 2006 5:28 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Thank you, Oprah, for putting your foot down and refusing to give these hateful men a platform to spew thier disdain from.

As an educated, intelligent, poised Black woman, you get it from all sides. You get flak if you date someone whose skin is lighter than yours, even though it's a mark of success for a rapper to do the same. You get called a bitch for daring to ignore some man who slinks up to you, innuendo dripping from his voice, saying that he "wants to be your friend" because hey, it worked for the Rapper of the Week! You're looked down upon for raising your children alone, or making good money, or being promoted at work, because you're selling out, and you're showing your man up.

I've been appalled at the virgin/whore dichotomies in hip-hop; they're so, so prominent! The ideal is this childless, skinny, long-haired, hazel-contacted princess that is unsullied by pregnancy, working, or education. I don't know the last time I saw one of these video paragons filmed being a doctor or a professor, can you?

The chickenhead/'ho/'bitch is invariably the girl who dares to dance, rejects the sloppy guy for someone else, or enjoys a sexually active lifestyle with no regrets; she flirts and has company with no guilt, just to have sex that's FUN. They have kids, usually by 5 different men (it happens, but dang! not as often as they make it sound), and they want- GASP! - child support.

Or, better still, she's in the background wearing a thong and shaking her ass for $50 and the honor of "representing her community"...no lie, I heard that exact quote coming from the mouth of a rapper on an MTV special once, as he was trying to convince these young ladies that thier bootyshakin' would be the beginning of the road to success, fame, and fortune.

Thanks to much of hip-hop's influence, so many things have been made unavailable or difficult in the inner city. I truly believe that hip-hop has affected teens' self-esteem, decision-making skills, motivation to learn, and so much more. There is NO reason that young kids in the IC should be thinking that Black women mean nothing to anyone. None. There's also no reason that they should think that working is for chumps, a souped-up car is more important than a savings account, and that being a pimp is a fast, fast way to get "respect".

I remember my ex, who is Russian, telling me that there were so many gorgeous, strong Black women around, and that it amazed the hell out of him that we weren't respected more in modern, hip-hop driven inner city society. At the risk of getting flamed, he even said that people better watch out, because there are men who want a good, strong woman no matter what her skin tone, and that they will be swept off thier feet by someone who will actually treat them right. And he wasn't the only person that's said this to me, either. Mind you, we're both Goth, and we don't listen to a huge lot of the genre, but it was clear, even to him, that there was a great divide in the reality of Black women and the regard paid to them by many rappers, which in turn radiates out through thier art into the community conciousness.

To summarize: Oprah's right. Most hip-hop blows as far as women are concerned. Listen to Saul Williams, because he rocks. Go to an open-mic night and hear some goodness coming from that stage. Don't buy into the short-sighted vision of men who are just full of hate that are "just not understoooooood! WAAAAAAAAAH!" We Black women are better than this, and no one needs to be calling anyone any kind of stupid-ass names for the sake of a "hot" video and a bottle of freaking Cristal.

» Rock on girl! Posted by: eastcoker

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Dear Oprah
[Report this comment]
Posted by: wordlife302 on Jun 21, 2006 6:01 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As a male and in to hiphop and 41 yrs old I think that they have a need to be on your show I know that you have questions that you need answered from these rappers so get them on your show and ask why ?

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Opinion Leaders...
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Posted by: Steven Wanzell on Jun 21, 2006 6:02 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Are solely responsible for the opinions they form in others, whether through art, blog or public service. Sexism, like homophobia are rampant in the black community, and acknowledging this fact is long overdue. These rappers are the epidemy of arrogance and negative role models. And for what? CASH! Painting themselves as activists of humanity is an insult to human rights activism.

Steven Wanzell
artist/activist/ex-American
www.wanzellarts.com.ar

» RE: Opinion Leaders... Posted by: Money Over People
» RE: Opinion Leaders... Posted by: MKat
» RE: Opinion Leaders... Posted by: Michelle
» Michelle Sucks!! Posted by: FauxPorteno
» RE: Michelle Sucks!! Posted by: dissidentpoet
» RE: Michelle Sucks!! Posted by: Steven Wanzell
» accuracy can be helpful Posted by: Michelle
» oy oy oy Posted by: Michelle
» RE: oy oy oy Posted by: FauxPorteno
» MY PLACE Posted by: Steven Wanzell

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lower classes? anti-Black man?
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Posted by: dissidentpoet on Jun 21, 2006 6:36 PM   
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i agree, that made my eyes roll.

and as a Black man, i have to say i am a little tired of seeing Oprah get tension etc. for "hating Black men" or something for her movies that she has done/been in. i have only seen 3 movies that she has been in (there could be more, i don't know) and all were classic books written by Black authors: The Color Purple, Native Son, and Beloved. and the one with the worst image of Black men was the one BY a Black man, richard Wright's Native Son.

these works are real, and look at the varied levels of oppression Black women face: race, gender, class, sexuality. we as Black men may not like it when we are looked at for our messed up male behavior as opposed to our heroic Black behavior; everyone would rather be seen for the oppressions they fight, rather than the oppressions they feed.

but i have learned and continue to learn from those books and movies, and i am not going to sit by and let someone run down oprah's movies for that.

her show, i don't watch enough to judge. i'm more likely (honestly) to be watching cartoons if i have the tv on at tha time, so what do i know? but i do know a Black political prisoner, a former member of the Black Liberation Army, who watches it fairly religiously and enjoys it as a Black man, so i'll give it a little respect for that.

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Recognition From Oprah?
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Posted by: bubacar on Jun 21, 2006 8:19 PM   
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When Rosa Parks an American icon becomes fair game for blantant disrespect , Ice Cube has lost the right to expect recognition from Oprah or anyone else.

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YES IT'S BAD BUT IS IT REALLY AFFECTING MUCH...STUDY IN ARTICLE EXPLAINED.
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Posted by: Bwesley on Jun 21, 2006 8:32 PM   
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This article states that the studies proves black females studied don't feel valued, however this is not the case for most black females in the country. Mostly its females having trouble with and constantly talking about their issues with black men. Most black males do not look down on black females and most black females do not feel worthless. If anything its the other way around, they have a sense of pride and love of their body and mind despite their physical appearance. Most studies state that black females have less of a negative body image than any other races in America. Also black females are historically and still revered for their strength and position in society. THIS HAS NOT CHANGED AND NO AMOUNT OF NEGATIVE RAP CAN CHANGE THIS. THIS WOULD BE LIKE WHITE AMERICANS THINKING ALL BLONDS ARE DUMB, SLUTTY AND TRAILER TRASH BECAUSE THEY SEE PARIS HILTON AND BRITNEY SPEARS AND THE LIKE ON TV 24/7.

New Report Details Sexual Trends Among Low-Income Black Urban Youth...

This extraordinarily frank report, This is My Reality -- The Price of Sex: An Inside Look at Black Urban Youth Sexuality, summarizes findings from 40 focus groups conducted in ten cities in 2002, and offers many sobering insights from low-income Black youth (ages 16-20) on their views about sex, relationships, pregnancy, abstinence and marriage...

"These Black youth wanted-and needed-to be heard, and we went into their communities and listened," said MEE President, Ivan Juzang. "For the most part, Black urban youth are not getting the information and guidance they need to make good choices about their sexual health. They view sex as a transaction, harbor little trust for each other, and believe that adults are contributing to the problem of early, casual sex and pregnancy."

The young people who participated in this study live in households with less than $25,000 in annual income.

African-Americans have achieved some of the steepest declines in both teen pregnancies and births. Between 1990 and 1999 (most recent data available), teen pregnancy rates for Black teens (aged 15-19) declined 30 percent, compared to 25 percent for the nation as a whole.

Some key findings from the report:

-- Trust and communication are rare, and young Black girls in particular do not feel valued. In the focus groups, males said that they don't trust females and females said that they don't trust each other; many noted frequent relationships between young girls and adult men; and males and females both reported a high level of derogatory sexual terms used to describe women. Young men frequently said that one reason they did not have having a single, steady partner is that they don't trust girls to be faithful. Both sexes said that cheating was rampant and that many guys had both a regular girlfriend ("wifey") and casual sex partners ("shortys") -- and that condom use was more prevalent with casual sex partners than in steady relationships.

-- Becoming a teen parent seems more realistic than abstaining from sex, getting married, or having a successful future. Young people in the study report that they are growing up in environments where sex is commonplace, marriage is rare, and teen parenthood is the norm. Teen parenthood carries little stigma; in fact, for many having a child at an early age is seen as a positive step. Many young people believe that "everyone is doing it," a message that they said was constantly reinforced by the media.

-- Parents can help, but they often don't. Many in the study say that adults are contributing to the problem of early, casual sex by (1) trying to act "young" and engaging in risky sexual behavior themselves, (2) offering overt or tacit approval for early sex...

http://www.scienceblog.com/ community/older/ archives/K/1/pub1172.html

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gansgta - politics - global greed
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Posted by: philame on Jun 22, 2006 12:54 AM   
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Usually I walk away from Alternet wonedering why I bothered to read reader's posts but this was actually a great discussion. Heated at times - and it should be - but a great discussion.

It's positive to see gender issues within the black community get discussed openly and critically - not only the song lyrics but also the expectation that black women should always support black men no matter what.

This issue though is bigger than Oprah, bigger than the music and bigger than the black community. Of course individuals and groups - and even a talkshow host - can affect social change BUT if Americans actually demanded that the government do its job - governing - then we'd really see some changes.

The black community is a community but it is not impervious or surrounded by concrete walls. It is a part of American society so therefore its problems can't be seperated from American problems. The rap music industry is a great example of this. Even if it were possible for all black people to unite and come out against this sort of music, what about all the white middle class teens that are buying it? They are a huge part of the problem with a heap of issues yet to be discussed here. If we focus only on the black community, we're missing a huge piece of the puzzle. Main point: this isn't just a black problem so cannot be solved as a black problem.

At the end of the day I am more concerned about the realities out there than song lyrics. I agree with previous posters who wrote we can't expect a talk show host and the over popular self-transformation ideology to save us. Of course we as individuals have a certain amount of power of our lives, but we are not islands. I want to see empowerment connected to politics again - not psychologists and talk show hosts. We should be demanding that the state redirect money to support projects that in turn support education and community renewal. Not random acts of corporate-sponsored Oprah kindness or Extreme Home Makeover. I don't see that shoft happening any time soon but that is where our focus ought to be.

And I wrote this elsewhere but feel it should be repeated. I am in no way surprised that in a time of rampant global hyper-consumerism and dog-eat-dog global business practices that this music is the soundtrack of choice. Just want to underline that the problem is bigger than the black community. It's a racialized problem - yes and that's f**ked up - but it's simultaneously much bigger than that.

» RE: wow - deep man!! Posted by: FauxPorteno

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Rappers and Oprah-Bashing
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Posted by: pppmanly on Jun 22, 2006 9:57 AM   
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Oprah is not obligated to invite these rappers on her show; it’s her show and she can invite or not invite whom she wants. These rappers have such a sense of entitlement – who the hell are they?! Many of them became so-called 'stars' just yesterday! They need to get a grip! Oprah should not allow these select rappers to use this hate and envy-filled campaign to extort her into making them a regular part of her show. She should maintain the classiness of her show. Of course, not all of hip-hop music is negative and bad. There is much of it that is positive, such as recent hits from Kanye West, LL Cool J, Mary J. Blige, Will Smith, etc., all of whom she has had on the show. However, the music industry and other media ensure that the negative images of ourselves dominate the airwaves, and as fools we play into it as artists and product buyers.

Like Oprah, I like some hip-hop music, but not some of the rap music out there that portrays black people as brainless, violent barbarians. My being black does not mean I have to embrace and like all of hip-hop music, just like many white people don’t necessarily like heavy-metal rock or country music. I am very disappointed, yet not totally surprised about his bashing of Oprah Winfrey via the media, which is, of course, eating up this 'juicy' story. Since the first related story broke a few months ago involving Chris “Ludacris” Bridges, every media house/magazine and even the Associated Press bring up the issue over and over again in their interviews with rap/ hip-hop stars in order to deliberately put fuel to the fire, and get publicity for their publication. They are so transparent and unscrupulous.

50 Cent is apparently upset that Oprah does not often invite rappers on her show, though he claims "Oprah's audience is my audience's parents... So, I could care less about Oprah or her show." If he doesn't care about her show, then why is he complaining about not being invited on it? That doesn't make sense. I think he and others are bitter about Oprah not allowing them to perpetuate their negative, violent, sexist, brainless, stereotypical image of black males on her show, and I don't blame her. These rappers and the music industry behind them, have the rest of the media, which is more than happy to help them continue to stereotype and put down the minds of black young people.

We are probably the only people who use a term ("nigga") that was used to dehumanize and torture our ancestors, now as a term of so-called 'endearment'. I think we as black people have the lowest self-esteem of all races. Anyone who tries to promote the dignity and pride we should have as a people, and the fact that we should show respect for our black women and children, is shot down and ironically accused of being "against the community," when in fact that person is standing up for the community.
Don't you think white supremacists and other racists in our society and the world enjoy seeing black men being portrayed as sexist, homophobic, brainless sex addicts, and black women being called "bitches" and "hoes" in rap videos? Of course, they do! After all, we are now oppressing our own selves through our own culture. Young black boys and girls now think that that part of hip-hop culture defines who they are, which is sad.

Rappers: Smell the roses (or whatever non-drug substance you want to smell)! Some of us just revel in ignorance, and think it is so 'cool' -- that's unfortunate. You are being used, and you don't even know it, or probably you do and don’t care as long as your pockets are lined with cash.

Become a part of the solution for saving our community, not a part of the problem! You can do all the charity work you want for good public relations, but it is counterproductive if the rest of your efforts and work denigrate instead of uplift our people.

» RE: appers and Oprah-Bashing Posted by: droscify
» RE: appers and Oprah-Bashing Posted by: droscify

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Kittynboi
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Posted by: kittynboi on Jun 22, 2006 1:07 PM   
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What does it matter? Rap isn't real music anyway.

» RE: Kittynboi Posted by: Scientz
» RE: Kittynboi Posted by: Kym525
» RE: Kittynboi Posted by: kittynboi
» RE: Kittynboi Posted by: Scientz
» RE: Kittynboi Posted by: kittynboi
» RE: Kittynboi Posted by: Scientz

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calling all concerned parents
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Posted by: billevans on Jun 22, 2006 1:43 PM   
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please dont let ludacris or 50 cent be the one to influence you to never let any hiphop near your childrens' ears. they're idiots. when i have kids i will definately keep a close watch on what theyre listening to, and you're right to be concerned about hiphop, as A LOT of it does send terrible messages. however, some of it doesn't, and it makes me sad that some kids will be shut out of an entire art-form because of a few idiots on tv. music is the most amazing thing, it enriches your soul and improves your mind, and believe it or not some hiphop can do this. definately watch what your kids listen to, but judge it on an artist to artist basis, not genre to genre. depriving people of good music is a sin
thanks

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SESpruiell
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Posted by: SESpruiell on Jun 22, 2006 4:43 PM   
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In a message dated 6/22/2006 8:19:08 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, Yvonne Bynoe writes:

>And now Ice Cube, the former frontman for controversial rap group N.W.A, has >expressed his displeasure with Oprah. He told FHM magazine that he's been >involved with three projects that were pitched to Oprah but has yet to receive an >invite. "Maybe Oprah's got a problem with hip hop," Ice Cube said.

Duh Yeah. It's the same problem I have.

>The main focus of this brouhaha is not hip hop or rap, but the commercially >successful subset of these genres that has transformed the public image of black >women from flygirls to bitches, tricks, 'hos and chickenheads. This is the same >sector of hip hop that has mainstreamed stripper culture, reduced the value of >women to their body parts (remember Nelly's music video "Tip Drill?") and mocked >the importance of love.

My beef is even more substantial. I object to the glorification of material acquisition, by any means necessary, regardless of its' consequences to the community. I object to the glorification of The Thug, The Hood and The Gangster as a representation of what a Man is supposed to be. I object to the use of homophobic language as a means to control and dominate other males. I object to the romantizing of violence and criminal behavior. I object to the importation of jailhouse culture as a cultural norm in the street. I resent the fact that anyone who objects to the content and context of Gangster Rap is called a hater. I resent the fact that the perpetrators of Gangster Rap see no corollary between the artform they are promoting and the denigration and disintegration of The Black Community. The perpetrators of Gangster Rap are rationalists and apologists of all the negative syndromes I just mentioned. We are told that there is more than one style of Rap, but Gangster Rap has become the mainstream. Gangster Rappers are Judasists, receiving bags of gold while betraying Black Culture.

I also object on an aesthetic basis. I object to the fact that most Rappers do not possess or care about musical skills. I object that originality has gone down the toilet in favor of generic, assembly style production. I object to the over reliance on the drum machine and the synthesizer, and that these tools are generally not used in a creative manner. I object the absence of real singing skills and techniques. I object to the over reliance of image over substance. I resent the fact that the masses have been spoon fed garbage for so long, they don't know quality when they hear it.

>Then 50 Cent -- the infamous crack dealer turned rap artist -- joined the fray, telling >the Associated Press that Oprah rarely invites rap artists on her show. Revealing >his disdain for what he characterized as Oprah's older, female, and primarily white >audience, he said, "[I] couldn't care less about Oprah or her show."

And obviously, Oprah couldn't care less about 50 Cent. 50 Cent declared that he was going to "Get Rich or Die Trying." Oprah is already one of the richest women in the world and could buy and sell 50 Cent several times over. Although in the past I have accused her show of "Man-bashing", she has turned that around and deals pretty even handedly with Black Men and Women.

Yvonne Bynoe suggests that Rappers should get their own talk show.

Please spare me.

Rappers need to do the right thing for The Black community or Shut Up.

"Talkin loud and sayin nothin" - James Brown


Selah Eric Spruiell

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No, Jay-Z´s Not High-Strung or Overly Sensitive or Anything...
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Posted by: ZPaul on Jun 23, 2006 3:49 AM   
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From Time magazine: "After a Cristal exec said he views the high-end champagne´s popularity wit hip-hop as a "curiosity," JAY-Z felt dissed and decided to boycott, neither drinking it nor serving it at his chain of lounges."
Sure, he has the right to do it, but unless the exec said something else more offending than that, doesn´t that sound like the man´s overreacting a bit? Well, if his "revenge" makes him feel better, whatever....

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Oprah raises the people up. Rappers lower the quality of life.
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Posted by: Speaks_the_truth on Jun 24, 2006 11:15 PM   
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Those rappers complaining about Oprah in my opinion cannot even meet the class, honor and good that she has done compared to the trash they have churned out.

Gangsta Rap has duped many young people into life of misery, crime, violence, prison, jail, drugs and poverty. Meanwhile they live in rich communities and most grew up in middle class families. They are a fraud and Oprah is the real deal.

Oprah tells people to be the best they can be while Rappers sing about being the worse and lowest kind of human being.

Oprah not only speaks, but does what she says to better the lives of poor people and Rappers tear down our communities, especially our minority communities. A lot of young people of color, my people, are duped into thinking they are cool, but they are the new Uncle Toms and Steppin' and Fetchin's. They destroy our community from within. 50 Cent himself was a drug dealer peddling' drugs that we in poor communities believe the CIA has brought in. So he is a traitor to the people and not a hero. Enslaving poor people into a life of drugs and addiction. In my opinion they are like the Klan because of their actions they have killed, enslaved (to drug addiction and poverty) and caused young people to become involved in crime and violence.

Oprah has taught people that no matter how poor or through hardships like being sexually abused that a person can raise to be a great person and teach people to better themselves.

Rappers on the other hand have taught young impressionable young people to be selfish, violent, woman hating, ignorant, crude and stupid.

In my book. I choose Oprah over low lives. Gangsta Rappers cannot even wipe Oprah's behind in my opinion.

Oprah is the greatest...and they are traitors to the people.

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It's hilarious that...
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Posted by: Zelda_Too_Blue on Jun 25, 2006 10:50 AM   
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these comments are made in such magazines as FHM, and the less slimy, but really sliding down that slope GQ. The male rappers who are complaining about Oprah Winfrey are more or less preaching to their choirs (and their buyers).

I agree with some of the other comments suggesting Winfrey devote an episode to a discussion about rap & hip-hop. It would be very interesting to hear both sides of the issue. Winfrey will go into controversial territory, however the record execs, publicists, and all those other behind the scenes folks who reap millions from their "artists" do not want real controversy, they only want the kind they manufacture to make sure more CDs are sold. That's too bad too, 'cause I'd love to see Nelly try to explain his songs and videos without the safety net of MTV editing and publicist spin.

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Hmmmm
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Posted by: veive on Jun 25, 2006 11:20 AM   
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For a guy, or maybe a girl, with "thick skin," who doesn't give a damn about what anyone might have to say, Scientz seems unable to let any comment slide. I'd say that kinda proves some kind of damn is being given.

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Pretty impressive.
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Posted by: Daniel Burk on Jun 25, 2006 11:58 AM   
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This place somehow manages to rival the Aint It Cool News talkbacks in it's levels of productive dialogue. It's encouraging.

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Chris Rock once said...
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Posted by: Zelda_Too_Blue on Jun 25, 2006 3:08 PM   
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in his comedy act, "there are blacks and then there are n____s," and the audience practically said this with him! I was kinda surprised by his comment. It seemed below the belt and far too obvious for him. The thing is, I LOVE Rock, his commentary and eagle-eyed critiques (like at the Oscars after Polanski won for "The Piano," Rock said, "You boo the anti-war guy [Moore] off stage, and you cheer for a child rapist!") are brave and refreshing.
My point is, Oprah champions Rock whenever she can, but was Rock's unoriginal, all-too-often said comment about "blacks and n____" demeaning and racist?
I love Oprah and I love Rock, but what he said has always stuck with me. I'm just curious as to whether anybody else has any insights into this?

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Rappers and the Klan
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Posted by: pnsuitec on Jun 25, 2006 3:16 PM   
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The mentality of most rappers regarding black people is so similar to what white supremacists subscribe to that it would not surprise me to discover that their rise to prominence was orchestrated by the ku klux klan. The messages we get from hip-hop "artists" and white hate mongers about how to deal with black folks are virtually indistinguishable: exploitation, degradation, and extermination. Thank you Oprah for standing firm against these traitors. It's good to know that not all of us are in the dark about who they really work for.

Alternet Comments:

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Looking For Something To Complain About
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Posted by: ZPaul on Jun 21, 2006 1:00 AM   
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Sure looks to me like these Rappers are just looking for something to complain about -- and more publicity. If you don´t like Oprah, why complain about not getting on her show? -- not only are these guys proficient in calling women "bitches", they seem to specialize in a lot of bitchin´themselves - if it´s about social injustice, fine, but complaining that Oprah´s not paying attention to black rappers when their rapping is heavily sprinkled with machismo -- they shouldn´t be surprised! "Brothers and sisters", my arse!

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Go, Oprah
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Posted by: nonwhiteperson on Jun 21, 2006 2:23 AM   
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"The underlying sentiment is that if she is unwilling to set aside her values, then she can't be down for black people."

We're studying "Feminism: It's A Black Thing" from bell hooks' "Killing Rage: Ending Racism" for class which is very similiar to what Oprah is espousing, the idea that women of color should not have to put up with sexism to be down in their community. The misogyny in recent hip-hop is mostly a result of mainstream white record companies that exploit blacks and promote stereotypes and misogyny. I'm glad to see Oprah stand up for women of color.

» You Go Girl! Posted by: bttl
» RE: Go, Oprah Posted by: meadowlake59
» RE: Go, Oprah Posted by: nonwhiteperson
» RE: Go, Oprah Posted by: Aussie Kim
» RE: Go, Oprah Posted by: tfortner
» RE: Splitting Hairs Posted by: SpreadingANUS

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Oprah is absolutely correct!
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Posted by: naryaquid on Jun 21, 2006 3:37 AM   
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The mysogyny in the music of the Rappers mentioned is clear...My only problem with the article is that I don't believe the word "bitch" as used by these "artists" is descriptive of only Black women...It's a hate word for women in general.

The word "bitch" when used as a synonym for "female", is no better than "nigger".

"Bitch" is to gender what "nigger" is to race.

» RE: Oprah is absolutely correct! Posted by: cosmicgold
» RE: Oprah is absolutely correct! Posted by: thinkingsooner

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Rappers Who Belittle Women Are SERVING THE RIGHT
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Posted by: ZPaul on Jun 21, 2006 4:06 AM   
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Yes, the Right just LOVES it when Rappers call women "bitches" and "hos" and talks about treating them violently! -- Because it´s helping to divide the ranks of the oppressed, and giving the Right more ammunition to use against them. Great job, Ice Cube et al!!! I´m sure the Right would be delighted to reward them, and award them, for sowing dissension.

» RE: Divide and conquer Posted by: ALEJANDRA

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Desperate Fools, making Racist Money!
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Posted by: nobuko on Jun 21, 2006 4:16 AM   
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Apparently its how those disgusting rappers feel about ALL FEMALE members of their family, be it their mothers and sisters! I don't blame Oprah, no way would I have them on my show, spend money on any of their music, let alone, invite them to my house!

If this is the only way they can become rich is by continuing to EXPLOIT Black women, and men, well I feel sorry for their DESPERATE butts! They, like the Bush Administration will sell their souls for the almighty evil dollar!

I sincerely hope Oprah does a show exposing these fools, for the FOOLS they are!

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Filthy-mouthed rappers now want RESPECT and ACCEPTANCE.
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Posted by: itzamirakul on Jun 21, 2006 4:21 AM   
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The problem with "some" rappers who have gained "riches" is that now they also want "respect." Persons like Ice Cube and Ludakrus (sp?) will never gain any respect from me because of the filthy DISRESPECT that they show for others.

Why don't some of these rappers buy books or computers for the disadvantaged youngsters who still live in the communities from which they (said rappers) rose "from rags to riches?" Why don't they do something worthwhile for those less well-off then they are? Do something that would make Oprah and other talk show hosts WANT to have them as guests.

They talk about Oprah's audience being "older white women."
Well then, why do these rappers WANT to be on her show so very much then? That doesn't seem to me to be an audience for their music and lyrics....oh, right....Appearing on Oprah's show gives the impression of having the Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval.

And what makes Ice Cube think that Oprah should back his projects? Especially after he made jokes about Rosa Parks in one of his ridiculous movies? IMO, he thinks Oprah owes him something because they are both African American.

I'm glad that Oprah does not have these garbage mouth noise makers on her show even though I do not watch her show or voluntarily listen to rap music. I hope that she never has them on unless they publicly apologize for verbally degrading women in their lyrics and videos. They do not deserve the publicity.

Also, I hope that someone forwards this post and its comments to the rappers mentioned in this post.

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Just Curious . . .
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Posted by: FauxPorteno on Jun 21, 2006 5:21 AM   
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Why the hell do these three idiots want couch time with Oprah anyway? I can hardly think of a demographic less receptive to gangster rap than Oprah's viewers . . . I will be curious to see if Oprah invites Tom Cruise back on the show after his less than flagrant but nonetheless misogynistic behavior towards his young wife. That whole "remain silent during childbirth thing" in concert with other extreme beliefs espoused by the nut jobs of PsuedoScientology should be enough to render him persona non-grata but as he is white and much, much more influential in Hollywood I suspect he's going to be on quite soon with wife and child in tow . . .

I think these guys are basically idiots and I don't have an exceptionally high opinion of Oprah either but I think there may be a slight double standard as clarified in my example above. If Ice Cube were making $20 million a film and pulling major strings in Hollywood, I think we could expect to see him on the show . . . Money talks and bullshit walks at the end of the day - especially in America - particularly in Hollywood!

» RE: Just Curious . . . Posted by: naryaquid
» $money does rule, let's face it! Posted by: missjazzy5
» RE: Just Curious . . . Posted by: Angie
» RE: Just Curious . . . Posted by: FauxPorteno
» How do you define Misogyny? Posted by: eastcoker

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deapp
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Posted by: deapp on Jun 21, 2006 6:16 AM   
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Oprah is right on. She has come a long way from having very degrading people on her own show. Pips, hoes, prostitutes, "who my baby daddy is" people. She was one of the first to have these mis-fits on her early shows. But now she has conformed. Also, Oprah's own veiw of black men are not the best. All her movies present black men as rapist or whimps, even her present show. Maybe she's not over the bad images of black men in her own family. Maybe these rappers are not over bad black female images in theirs.

» RE: deapp Posted by: MKat
» Know your subject b4 speaking... Posted by: missjazzy5
» Of course--tv is free Posted by: Kelly

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American success stories, yet again
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Posted by: squattyroo on Jun 21, 2006 6:45 AM   
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The problem these "artists" have is reflected in their simple-minded yet so American equation of monetary success with importance, validation, & worthiness. What they want is their pitiful accomplishments recognized as being actually worth something when all they've done, like thousands of other people before them is sell a lot of records; when all they've done is bought a lot of tasteless bling, degrade the communities they come from, & made the Fat Nicks of the world happy.

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Oh no not Oprah!
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Posted by: Stano on Jun 21, 2006 6:46 AM   
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Now Alternet.org is in on the Oprah hype! Who cares what this woman says or does anyway. I can't exit a supermarket without seeing her stupid fat face. What's next - some scoop on Jennifer Anniston or Brad and Angelina?

» RE: Oh no not Oprah! Posted by: churchofone
» RE: Oh no not Oprah! Posted by: GEM-592
» RE: Oh no not Oprah! Posted by: Pinklillies

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The Author Has It Right
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Posted by: NoPCZone on Jun 21, 2006 7:16 AM   
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I'm no fan of the Church of Oprah Winfrey, but she is right on this one. It's her show, she owns it, her name is on the line and if you don't like it don't watch. It's not a news show nor does it pretend to be. Get over it.

Any person who, in their creative work or life, advances ideas that are demeaning to women or any other group of people is worthy of contempt. The problem is not the beat, the rhythm or the rhyme-- the problem is the attitude. It's not PC gone wild, it's just common sense and common decency.

When any person is demeaned, caricatured or stereotyped it demeans all people. I truly think that in time these 'artists' will be seen for what they really are: a bunch of modern 'steppin fetchits' in the vaudeville of Viacom-- the owner of MTV, VH1 & BET. The money is good, but at what price?

If anybody else in any other venue advanced a 'culture' of prison tats, gold teeth, gangs, pimp attitude, ghetto slang, violence, misogyny & objectification of women it simply would not be tolerated. Gangsta isn't the road to freedom- it's the road to serfdom.

Just like the days of old a handful of blacks are being well paid to perpetuate myths and stereotypes by doing a modern Mr Bojangles for Viacom and the RIAA members while the rest are sucked in and passed by. It's back to the future and the author and Ms Winfrey know it. Good for them.

» RE: The Author Has It Right Posted by: gothsnob

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Hip Hop and Twinkies
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Posted by: DennisDalrymple on Jun 21, 2006 7:18 AM   
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Hip Hop is to music what twinkies are to cake.
Right on Oprah!

» WHAT????? Posted by: dissidentpoet
» RE: WHAT????? Posted by: jonestown kool-aid
» RE: WHAT????? Posted by: DennisDalrymple
» RE: WHAT????? Posted by: dissidentpoet

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To Quote Ice Cube ...
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Posted by: abstractmachine on Jun 21, 2006 7:21 AM   
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Black Woman is my manager, not in the kitchen/
So could you please stop bitchin' (1991)

I'm not saying that Ice Cube is a champion of feminisim but it absurd to jugde him based on a song (A Bitch iz a Bitch) he made in his late teens nearly 20 years ago.

On Ice Cube's first solo effort Ammerikkka's Most Wanted he featured and greatly raised the profile of "Yo-Yo" an early female hip-hop MC who is celebrated to this day as a pioneer feminist MC on the west coast gangsta rap scene.

These artists are complex individuals and it is absurd and counterproductive to judge them based on a song or a lyric when their ongoing actions may actually say something quite different about their beliefs as a person.

» RE: To Quote Ice Cube ... Posted by: Zelda_Too_Blue

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AS A RAPPER...
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Posted by: Scientz on Jun 21, 2006 7:24 AM   
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I will tell you this...

People just don't overstand hip-hop. Not that we are looking for your understanding. When it comes to our music, we truly don't give a fuck what you think. At all. And haven't now for about thirty years.

But they don't--Oprah and the author of this article included.

And neither does anyone who posted before me, either.

C'est la vie.

John Legend and Alicia Keys are NOT rap artists Yvonne. They are R&B artists a la Boyz II Men--typically the softer side of urban culture. Sorry, but please try again.

I saw a post that "bitch" is to gender what "nigger" is to race. You're an idiot. Anyone uselessly offended by what they view as mysogynistic lyrical content should listen to Jay-Z's "Bitches N Sistas" for a concise explanation of the dichotomy between the two. Anyone who didn't know there was a difference should not speak about hip-hop.

Today, I will have to play the part of cry0fan.

Gender Race Gender Race Gender Race Gender Race Gender Race Gender Race Gender Race Gender Race Gender Race Gender Race Gender Race Gender Race Gender Race Gender Race Gender Race Gender Race Gender Race Gender Race Gender Race Gender Race Gender Race Gender Race Gender Race Gender Race Gender Race Gender Race Gender Race Gender Race Gender Race Gender Race

It's actually kind of sad how effectively they divide and conquer you easily offended idiots.

» RE: AS A RAPPER... Posted by: squattyroo
» RE: AS A RAPPER... Posted by: Scientz
» RE: AS A RAPPER... Posted by: cephalis
» RE: AS A RAPPER... Posted by: Scientz
» RE: AS A RAPPER... Posted by: ZPaul
» RE: AS A RAPPER... Posted by: Scientz
» RE: AS A RAPPER... Posted by: hannah
» RE: AS A RAPPER... Posted by: Scientz
» RE: AS A RAPPER... Posted by: hannah
» RE: AS A RAPPER... Posted by: Scientz
» yeah he would have Posted by: dissidentpoet
» RE: BETTER LYRICS! Posted by: billevans
» RE: BETTER LYRICS! Posted by: billevans
» RE: BETTER LYRICS! Posted by: Scientz
» RE: BETTER LYRICS! Posted by: billevans
» RE: BETTER LYRICS! Posted by: Scientz
» RE: BETTER LYRICS! Posted by: billevans
» RE: BETTER LYRICS! Posted by: Scientz
» is it art or just selling? Posted by: dissidentpoet
» RE: BETTER LYRICS! Posted by: Zelda_Too_Blue
» RE: AS A RAPPER...Oh Puh-leeze Posted by: billevans
» RE: AS A RAPPER...Oh Puh-leeze Posted by: billevans
» clarification Posted by: peritonlogon
» RE: clarification - apology Posted by: Scientz
» RE: AS A RAPPER...Oh Puh-leeze Posted by: Zelda_Too_Blue
» ha ha ha ha! Posted by: dissidentpoet
» RE: AS A RAPPER... Posted by: Sanballot
» I'M AN IDIOT? Posted by: Scientz
» RE: I'M AN IDIOT? Posted by: Sanballot
» RE: I'M AN IDIOT? Posted by: Scientz
» RE: I'M AN IDIOT? Posted by: ZPaul
» RE: I'M AN IDIOT? Posted by: Scientz
» RE: I'M AN IDIOT? Posted by: ZPaul
» RE: I'M AN IDIOT? Posted by: Scientz
» WHAT THE HELL DID YOU JUST SAY? Posted by: dissidentpoet
» whew Posted by: dissidentpoet
» RE: whew Posted by: Scientz
» RE: WHAT THE HELL DID YOU JUST SAY? Posted by: Zelda_Too_Blue
» RE: AS A RAPPER... Posted by: dagnymeetsassisi
» HOW WOULD YOU KNOW? Posted by: Scientz
» RE: HOW WOULD YOU KNOW? Posted by: dagnymeetsassisi
» SISTERS VS BITCHES Posted by: Scientz
» Hey ZPaul! Posted by: Scientz
» RE: Hey ZPaul! Posted by: ZPaul
» RE: Hey ZPaul! Posted by: Scientz
» RE: You Can Expect... Posted by: ZPaul
» Glad to be an idiot... Posted by: binkey
» RE: SISTERS VS BITCHES Posted by: Zelda_Too_Blue
» RE: AS A RAPPER... Posted by: babs
» RE: Wanksta? Posted by: Scientz
» RE: Wanksta? Posted by: amatullah
» RE: Wanksta? Posted by: Scientz
» RE: Wanksta? Posted by: amatullah
» RE: Wanksta? Posted by: Scientz
» RE: Wanksta? Posted by: amatullah
» RE: Wanksta? Posted by: Scientz
» RE: AS A RAPPER... Posted by: mayangrl
» RE: AS A RAPPER... Posted by: Scientz
» RE: AS A RAPPER... Posted by: Kelly

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Oprah has every right - so I wonder...
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Posted by: kpetin on Jun 21, 2006 7:33 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Do you think Oprah (had she been given the chance) would have invited Tupac Shakur on her show?

I can understand the argument about "misogynistic (aka radio) rap" and the negativity that comes from ignorant and retarded lyrics. But I wonder how she feels about the duality of artists like Pac, or other artists with both "positive" and "negative" messages.

Just wondering. I mean - it is her show. She is minding her own business and not "hating" on rappers at all really...

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Simile
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Posted by: Charaud on Jun 21, 2006 7:40 AM   
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If Ice Cube and Ludakris deserve a spot on Oprah then likewise so don't Tom Delay and Duke Cunningham and Abramoff. If not-Why Not?

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Outdoes the KKK
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Posted by: laredo on Jun 21, 2006 8:09 AM   
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Rap outdoes the KKK when it comes to generating racial stereotypes of both sexes of the black population. I thought that the ultimate absurdity arrived during the 90s when a black-owned radio station in Chicago was criticized because it advertised that it did not play rap music.

Good for Oprah and good for that radio station.

» RE: Outdoes the KKK Posted by: InfinityInc
» WHAT!!!???!!! Posted by: missjazzy5
» ummmm...no, i don't think so Posted by: dissidentpoet

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Hooray for Oprah!!!!!
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Posted by: Bev on Jun 21, 2006 8:13 AM   
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Smart and caring person, yes she is.

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i like ludacris, ice cube & oprah
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Posted by: saywhat? on Jun 21, 2006 8:14 AM   
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but pop culture icons are not my role models, someone like angela davis is, who fights for the poor on death row....oprah makes me feel better than pat robertson does, but I never got a car from her.

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I completely agree with the author
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Posted by: agent210 on Jun 21, 2006 8:17 AM   
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Oprah is under no obligation to put these men on her show because she and they are Black.. That is the problem with the Black community is that if GOD FORBID a person has a different mind set or opinion, they jump all over them. We are not allowed to view things from more than one opinion.. We are supposed to be a monolith.

I say this as professional, grad school educated Black woman who had Black people not like me because I speak "proper" English.

I think these men will continue to sell their women hating lyrics to all who are interested in them. Plus they are already rich so its not as if not being on Oprah will somehow keep food out of their mouths..

They should stick to Bad Entertainment Television (BET) to promote their stuff.

» perfect! Posted by: dissidentpoet

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MC Bush
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Posted by: Money Over People on Jun 21, 2006 8:19 AM   
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As someone who enjoys country music as much as rap - and rarely ever hear anyone criticize Johnny Cash the way they criticize Tupac Shakur - I wonder why the topic of Oprah inviting or not inviting anyone would get people so upset?

Also, Oprah's excuse for not inviting 50 Cent or Ice Cube is that they are demeaning women with their lyrics, but I seem to recall that O had Mrs. Bush on her show. I mean, yes, I would agree that there is a good chunk of rap lyrics that are demeaning to women, but George Bush has actually signed laws that are demeaning to women, gays, minorities and every other group that isn't addicted to KKKristianity in this country.

Is the logic that lyrics are more harmful than laws?

I've never cared for Oprah. She's always come across as rather plastic to me. I understand that it is television and there is some amount that is always polystyrene, but the real Oprah isn't hard to find... Here's what her take is on being rich:
"I have lots of things, like all these Manolo Blahniks. I have all that and I think it's great. I'm not one of those people like, 'Well, we must renounce ourselves.' No, I have a closet full of shoes and it's a good thing."

I wouldn't ask you to "renounce" yourself Oprah. How about a little modesty, though? Maybe you can sell those Manolo Blahniks (whatever the hell they are) and buy some homeless folks a couple meals?

It's her show and she can do what she wants with it. Rappers can say what they want to as well. The two don't have to like each other, invite the other to parties, or even pretend to respect one another.

However, don't go around acting high and mighty when the seething hypocrisy is easily found out.

Go through Oprah's guest list from the last fifteen years and tell me that she's never had on any guest that is demeaning to women.

When she starts walking the talk, I'll start to consider her opinions more.

Same as GW.

» RE: MC Bush Posted by: saywhat?
» RE: MC Bush Posted by: ZPaul
» RE: MC Bush Posted by: MKat
» RE: MC Bush Posted by: Money Over People
» RE: MC Bush Posted by: dshomsky
» RE: MC Bush Posted by: Money Over People

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The True Hypocrisy of This Article
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Posted by: lpdigital on Jun 21, 2006 8:25 AM   
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Unfortunately, among black Americans there is little substantive debate about how popular culture affects our communities; any criticism of rap music, however slight or legitimate, is routinely dismissed as ‘hating.’

The reason why is because people like Oprah would rather use her show to promote Tom Cruise instead of confronting people like Ice Cube.

Solving this issue requires intelligent dialogue by informed people. Someone like Ice Cube or music critic Greg Tate should be invited on Oprah not to promote his commercial project but to directly explain their lyrics and attitudes. That’s called dialogue. Right now, things exist on the level of a schoolyard shouting match.

There is a ridiculous amount of ignorance and generalizations on this thread. It shouldn’t be a surprise given that the author of this piece thinks that John Legend is hip hop. That’s truly embarrassing.

Rappers don’t need Oprah and Oprah doesn’t need rappers. But the Black Community needs them both to use their mutual fame and notoriety to engage in a substantive debate with the purpose of educating everyone on both sides as well as those on the sidelines.

The ‘what’s mine is mine’ mentality leaves everyone poor and ignorant and perpetuates the existing stereotypes. Using our collective resources to confront this issue is the only thing that will improve our community.

Boycotting ideas and people promotes ignorance, as evidenced in this thread.

» Blah blah blah Posted by: eastcoker

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I feel you Oprah
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Posted by: eastcoker on Jun 21, 2006 8:29 AM   
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And I totally agree. As the estranged wife of a black man that ran with the likes of Snoop Dog down in South Central LA, I *totally* know what you are writing about. Forget it! These black man are setting a *horrid* example for the world. They are giving voice to the most *heinous* and fallen and degraded aspect of the masculine psyche. Yuck. All the other men follow suit. I can't stand it. Somebody needs to either
1. Turn these guys out
2. Strip 'em and turn 'em out and make 'em shake their naked booty up on stage and see how they like that!
Repulsive!

» RE: I feel you Oprah Posted by: MEL810

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Right On Oprah!!!
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Posted by: Kym525 on Jun 21, 2006 9:02 AM   
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Though I sometimes have issues with Oprah and her show, as a black woman I am SO glad that she is taking a stand against those rappers who perpetuate negative and demeaning stereotypes against black women and our community in general. These rappers may be rags to riches success stories, but their money comes from disparaging the very women who have always been the backbone and strength of the black community.

If they want to be on television, there's BET - get to it!

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Old school
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Posted by: nonwhiteperson on Jun 21, 2006 9:07 AM   
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Look at the options given black men in this society and you'll know why many get the big bucks from these conquer and divide record companies. Some people listen to it because it has a beat. Old school hip hop was not about misogyny because it hadn't been coopted by white interests yet.

» RE: Old school Posted by: MKat
» RE: Old school Posted by: Kym525
» RE: Old school Posted by: repo
» RE: Old school Posted by: Kym525
» RE: Old school Posted by: repo
» i agree Posted by: dissidentpoet

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The best article I've read in a very long time.
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Posted by: ddsharper on Jun 21, 2006 9:53 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Regarding these verbal abusers of women attacking Oprah, I must say that this article by Yvonne Bynoe was well written, succinct and very much captured the gist of the issue. I was so impressed that half way through the story I clicked on the author's name to read other articles and found only this one. I plan on searching the web because I stopped reading blogs and most rags, on and off the internet, due to having to wade through mediocre writing, endure excessive leanings to the left or right without a point being made and seeing article after article ramble on ad nauseam. I truly enjoyed this piece and view it as a work of true journalism. Bravo. I will mail Oprah this one! Thank you so much for making the issue clear.

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Oprah, can we talk?
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Posted by: rgjr on Jun 21, 2006 10:03 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Awhile back, Rev. Calvin Butts of Abyssinian Church in New York lead a campaign against Snoop Dogg CD “Doggystyle”. He started the campaign by running over Snoop’s CDs with a steamroller and was throughout the press talking about how the CD’s lyrics were demeaning to Black women, specifically, and Black people, generally. And he was right.

But during an interview with MTV, Snoop was asked about Rev. Butt’s efforts and he responded, thoughtfully, by saying that the main problem he had was the Rev. Butts had never tried to talk to him directly. “My grandmother goes to church,” he said, “and maybe if he had talked to me I might have changed up a taste.” The interviewer then went back to Rev. Butts, who when asked if he had ever tried to contact Snoop, stammered a little then said “maybe I should give him a call.”

Oprah has every right and is right to take the position she has taken on rap that is degrading to women. But she has also taken on the responsibility to use her fame and power to change people’s lives for the better, so why not do that with these rappers? You don’t change the behavior of young people by pushing them away when they do wrong. You change them by engaging them, telling them they’re doing wrong and letting them know that you expect them to do better.

In fact, I think the rappers mentioned in the article are all but inviting Oprah to say to them what she expects for them. If they didn’t care about Oprah’s opinion, they would not have said anything in the first place. For example, Oprah’s recent visit on Ed Lover’s radio show here in NYC resulted in him changing his catch phrase of “It’s a celebration, bitches,” which he pulled from Dave Chappelle’s parody on Rick James, to “It’s a celebration!” The change would have never taken place if she had not gone on the show.

So, why not have a show with rapper on this subject? It might change some behavior and it would get great ratings!

» RE: Oprah, can we talk? Posted by: lpdigital
» RE: Oprah, can we talk? Posted by: eastcoker
» RE: Oprah, can we talk? Posted by: lpdigital
» RE: Oprah, can we talk? Posted by: eastcoker

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Wow
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Posted by: nonwhiteperson on Jun 21, 2006 10:20 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Wow, after reading this article, I did not expect so much support for women of color. Maybe we've turned a corner on respect for women of color

» RE: Wow Posted by: ZPaul
» unfortunately Posted by: dissidentpoet
» RE: Wow Posted by: philame

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Not all African American artists are rappers
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Posted by: nikitasan on Jun 21, 2006 10:57 AM   
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Alicia Keys & John Legend are not rap artists; they both play R&B. If the author can't something as basic as that correct it just dilutes the rest of the story.

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I Guess I am a HATER!!
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Posted by: Sanballot on Jun 21, 2006 11:14 AM   
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You know when I was growing up Hip Hop was the theme of conscieness that helped sway a nation up and out of ignorance and poverty. Those days are over. We Afromerican Males have sytematically been giving all of our strides that we made decades before back to the ruling establishment. It would seem that because now these Men who proclaim to have become, are upset that they can't get on Oprah??!! Come on I say!! Take the pillow from your head and put a book there. These kinda of people help divide and conquer our youth. By oppressing their minds with the poison of the streets??? What streets?? did you grow up there? Bet not and if any of them did they are certainly not there anymore!! so why continue to talk about it. We all know the plight of wence we came! we do not need these ignorant toms who sit by the record producers door to speak their regurgitative ryhmes and beats to our inpressionable youths. Niggers and Hoes is what they have now become because they still hold no power. They continue to suck the life out of our youth by Promoting the very thing that we faught soo hard against OVERT and COVERT OPPRESSION!! I for one am tired as hell at the rappers and their music and videos. Leave me something for the imagination. Tell me about truth and promise so that through the ryhmes a people can learn to like themselves again. We have always been a people that communicated through song. It lead us through a desperate time in our history and still today it brings us joy! It is such a shame that these Lyricis would rather denegrate their own people For a dollar that is'nt even worth the paper its printed on anymore. Time for the bullshit to end!! Time to take back our young from these vultures that would like to take their souls right to hell along with themselves. Wake up People! Giving your money to that indusrty is not helping our cause it is hindering it!! And the more this type of music is played the more our youth are at risk. Its not the guns and the drugs its the miusic that continues to provide a fictitious ideal of Gangsters to our boys which in turn allows for a fictitious ideal of our Baby Girls. Iam Tired of it! Iam tired of listening I am tired of hearing it I am just plain ol tired of it all together. The music sucks its all the same ol shit ( there are a few that are positive however; Common, Mos Def ... etc) the rest are full of themselves and that money. I can't even understand them anymore. I feel so disconected from our music that I now listen to only Gospel and Jazz and those artist in the group I have mentioned above. So Sad we are, that we do the same thing to our own that many cry about in their music, politics, carreers. And to end because I could go on and on all day. Why is it that the Jail mentality of Men with braids or pants hanging down or talking in incoherent languge makes you a man? And the ones who are actually working for the better of him or herself and family is seen as selling out? This is what needs to change, the Ideology of the Black People!!! Just for all those who wonder; I am An Afromerican Male 36 years old and tired of this Black jail mentality Shit that I see everyday!! Rappers go to hell and stop spreading your vile behavior. To end for real now, Like Marvin Gay said "Whats Going On"?

» RE: good for you sanballot Posted by: cold2touch
» RE: I Guess I am a HATER!! Posted by: philame
» RE: I Guess I am a HATER!! Posted by: Sanballot

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this is funny
[Report this comment]
Posted by: droscify on Jun 21, 2006 11:28 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I see that there is a lot of general disdain for hip hop among the comments posted. did you ever stop to think that maybe hip hop was no more homogenous than rock and roll which easily has just as many mysogynistic artists and songs as does hip hop? how about the fact that hip hop probably has a a much greater plurality of artists who don't create mysogynist content than those who do? 3rd, whoever said the agenda of the radical right is far more hurtful to women than any SONG will ever be is absolutely correct.

peace to open minded people

» RE: this is funny Posted by: Kym525
» this isn't funny Posted by: lpdigital
» RE: this isn't funny Posted by: Kym525
» RE: this isn't funny Posted by: lpdigital
» RE: this isn't funny Posted by: Kym525

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Most Maintstream hip hop is a joke
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Posted by: Techubus on Jun 21, 2006 1:13 PM   
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That fellow up above that claims to represent hip hop has illustrated to me exactly why mainstream rap is a total joke.

To actually use, as a defense of his position, the amount of money 50 cent makes (so he must be right) is completely absurd.

I'm no rapper, but I am a musician and have always been a big fan of underground music in general. Punk, Rap, Reggae, Jungle, Ska, Psychobilly/rockabilly.. ad naseum. My point here is the corruption of a genre. Punk experienced the same thing and now you have flavorless cookie cutter hacks on MTV pretending they're punk rockers. Same thing with hip hop. As Pharcyde put it: 'these nigga's have sold their souls and now their souls are hollow'.

I personaly can't stand ANY of the crap they play on rap stations these days. It wasn't until I got XM radio and found the old school station that I began enjoying the music again. There used to be real positive messages in these artists music. Actually there still is, it's just you have to dig into the indie scene to find it. Not suprisingly the best talents are found there too.

I will only agree with that guy on one point and that is the distiction many rappers make between respectable women and what they deem hoes. I've listened to this music long enough to know the difference is pretty clear. Their are exceptions but for the most part the 'bitches' are the groupies and generally shallow women who chase after them because they are rich and famous. The sort of woman you might enjoy a fling with but would never contemplate marrying. Other than that, pretty much everything everyone else is saying in this thread is true.

» I AM NOT A FAN OF IT, EITHER Posted by: Scientz

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Oprah
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Posted by: CatDad on Jun 21, 2006 1:23 PM   
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Oprah is a market-driven entity which has turned human suffering (specifically female issues of obesity) into a billion-dollar commodity. Decisions about who gets on the show are market-driven based on her female demographic. Misogynist rappers are not welcome by this market segment. Oprah is the living embodiment of the pseudo “personal transformation” ideology that America’s ruling elite encourages among the downtrodden classes. In this ideology, there’s NOTHING wrong with our economic/social system....the problem is YOU.....you need to charge your outlook/attitude.... with some new-age feel good religion thrown in. Mr. Joe Bluecollar...Have you lost your high-paying union job to slave/free-trade labor to China or Mexico? You need to change how you FEEL about that. Don’t bother trying to address the issues that caused you to loose your job. Just change your attitude about loosing your job and all will be okay. The only thing that it is important is for America’s top 2% richest citizens to continue to keep hoarding even more of the nation’s wealth....

» RE: Oprah Posted by: FauxPorteno
» RE: Oprah Posted by: GEM-592
» RE: Oprah Posted by: philame

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Their lyrics and videos promote a negative lifestyle...
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Posted by: Callibrarian on Jun 21, 2006 1:33 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am so tired of seeing that 95% of black music videos display black women like we're hunks of meat at the butcher shop---everyone can look, and for a cheap enough price you can take us home. I am tired of being called names, of being shown as nothing but an ignorant object whose sole purpose in life is to chake by butt. I'm sick of the music industry as a whole for being unable to produce much original work, and I'm tired of the original works consisting of lyrics such as "Booty, Booty, Booty!" I don't want to hear how every single city you go you see the same hos. I don't care that you feel that if your homeys can't have none it ain't no fun. Don'y tell me, "Move bitch, get out the way." I don't want to hear about the sweat dripping off your balls. But I have to hear it and put up with the society this culture promotes, the ignorant one that throws aside education. intelligence, and self value. This weekend while I put on a library book sale I had to watch black teen buy more sodas than books, telling me they don't read. I listen to people curse out security guards because they think it's acceptable to call people names and curse people out. I have to watch a generation, not just of black people, but young people in general being taught a lifestyle that is unhealthy and unsustainable. And yet rappers get mad because Oprah knows her demographic well enough not to put them on the show. Go figure.

» Symptom....Not the Cause Posted by: CatDad
» RE: Symptom....Not the Cause Posted by: FauxPorteno
» RE: Symptom....Not the Cause Posted by: WhuThe?!?
» RE: Symptom....Not the Cause Posted by: WhuThe?!?
» exactly Posted by: dissidentpoet

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On a semi-related note
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Posted by: WhuThe?!? on Jun 21, 2006 4:22 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I totally agree with Oprah for ignoring these greedy, woman-hating fools who do nothing but harm their own race and make themselves look foolish for "riches". I say they harm their own race because they could make the world a better place for disadvantaged black youth through their immense influence but instead they teach them to hate women and admire pimping and drug-dealing. They also reinforce negative stereotypes about blacks with their “art” through the images they portray. Oprah should speak out against them, not sure why she does not do that--She would be doing society a big favor if she did. And if it hurt her income a little, she’d still be filthy, filthy, I mean filthy-rich. Perhaps if she spoke out strongly, it might turn off some of the voters she hopes to convince to vote for warmonger Hillary Clinton in 2008. (Yes, she has encouraged her to run for president)
I titled this post "On a semi-related note" because, as mentioned in several posts, these rap "artists" are indirectly an instrument for the right wing, by programming the youth early in life to be more preoccupied with impressing others with superficiality than learning to be concerned about what is going on around them. Those youth will never become a threat to the government. Sadly, many modern rock bands are now acting as instruments for the right wing cause as well and I want Alternet readers to be aware of just a couple of which I am aware. Does anybody remember "3-Doors Down" (Hit song Kryptonite)? They played to promote George Bush during his election campaign. Also, very shortly after the war started I went to a "Godsmack" concert, and one redneck, famous (I wish I could remember their name right now) rock band went on blabbering on against the Dixie Chicks for being anti-murder, and I felt so upset and was hoping Godsmack would get up there and put them in their place. At that time I knew nothing about Godsmack’s politics other than their singer claims to practice Wicca, which as I understand has to do with natural energies. All those I have known that practice Wicca have been liberal and peaceful, so I assumed… At that point I just liked the angry, rebellious sound of hard rock, and am so used to rock-n-roll being used to protest injustice and war (I grew up in the 60s-70s). Well, it did not happen as I hoped. Their concert started with a big screen over the stage and a jet fighter flying along, with a heavy rock beat in the background and a voice going on about how when freedom is under threat we must fight for our freedoms. It felt like a propaganda film put together by the military. I even wondered if the band was financially threatened and forced to do that (still no excuse), or threatened with worse. Or perhaps they just fell for the lies. Or maybe they believe in settling disagreements by murdering innocents. Maybe they have even seen the light by now. Anyway, what they were going around doing, using rock-n-roll to encourage evil, was sickening. So, with the voice going on about preserving freedom (and we all knew they were referring to a pre-emptive (assuming their was ever even a threat) strike against Iraq), the heavy rock beat, and the image glorifying the death jet, the jet turns toward the crowd, shoots balls of fire, followed by big on-stage explosions, the band entering the stage, and the crowd going wild. It was so sad, nearly everybody was just loving it, the sacrilegious abuse of what was once a protest art form. I felt so alone in the crowd.
Tell everybody you know about these bands. Also, Rob Zombie is now touring with Godsmack, and I assume you can tell a lot about somebody by looking at the people with whom they associate. Some letters to these traitors and spreading the news about their true colors certainly would be in order.

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Old School Metal
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Posted by: Kym525 on Jun 21, 2006 4:50 PM   
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To those who make the comparison between old school metal and some rap/hip-hop misogyny, I've got to shake my head in wonder. Firstly, just because one group does something doesn't make it all right, so let's toss that lame excuse out the door.

Secondly, would anyone consider Whitesnake misogynistic? White Lion? Bon Jovi? Cinderella? Dokken? Judas Priest (especially considering what we know about Rob Halford)? Dio? Ozzy? Black Sabbath? Metallica? Iron Maiden? Saxon? Ratt? Quiet Riot? Def Lepppard? Kiss? Guns n' Roses (okay, I'll give you that one, but it was just that one song and everybody ripped them a new one over it).

Now before you answer, be sure you've actually *listened* to this stuff. Yes, I know most of these groups had video girls (i.e. Tawny Kitaen), but for some reason, I just can't quite remember Don Dokken ever calling a girl a bitch or a ho. And Dio was so into medieval and knights and stuff, I don't think he ever sang all that much about women. Bon Jovi mentioned something about 'giving love a bad name'. Yes, they all had their groupies, as does any musician.

» I love Metallica and Nirvana! Posted by: eastcoker

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Bring it back...
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Posted by: gerly on Jun 21, 2006 5:20 PM   
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Let me deflect any reference to my handle, first with a preface. I have reclaimed another hybrid of this handle and use it when I write music reviews. You know, like the Riot Grrls.

I'm pretty sure I'll be perceived as an outlier on the female curve with what I'm about to chortle. I've written music reviews and DJ'd as a hobby off and on for the better part of 20 years -- listening to and writing about all music genres, rap and hiphop included.

I will say, yeah, hear hear! keep this thread on target. Agreed, and amen! on the operatives 'opportunity to confront' the OP used. Or should I say, Oprah missed an opportunity to confront?

How can boundaries be transgressed and learning evolve if there is not a forum to enlighten and better understand motivations? What an opportunity missed to enlighten a veritable plethora of peoples. In 1997 I wrote a hip-hop retrospective...

As much as I loathe digressing into the realm of racism, because of its proliferation these days, I do feel it warrants dicussion. Some institutions [the White Anglo-Saxon Patriarchy comes to mind first and foremostly] prefer to take a xenophobic approach towards the Hip-Hop/Rap musical genres; denonument and hypercriticism is the default reaction, instead of understanding and learning. Not since the era of New Wave in the early `80s have two musical genres made such an impact in the music biz; let the record show, the sales of music from these genres are astronomical. Granted, sexism, racism, and violence don't rate very high in my book either, but other genres of music could be criticized on these topics as well.[It's not my policy to harp on one particular musical genre, but what about the lyrical content spewed by rock artists like Marilyn Manson, Cop Shoot Cop, Revolting Cocks, Nine Inch Nails, all the Goth bands, all the Nazi punk rock bands, and the list goes on, etc., etc., etc....]

So why are Rap/Hip-Hop, especially Gansta Rap artists typically under heavier scrutiny and attack? I think one answer is because this artform has created empowerment; and empowerment of the oppressed is dangerous for those in charge, and for those in control of information and resources. Don't get me wrong, I think that all forms of media should be analyzed, but with insightfulness and responsibility that begs the question, "Why?" Like musical artists of other genres, I think Hip-Hop/Rap artists write and sing about that that they know-----oftentimes, it is about the desolate and oppressed lifestyle that coincides with life in the ghetto. And, for the most part, it ain't pretty. Albeit, lyrics of controversy and contention.

Without revealing too much about my own trials and tribulations as a woman of color who is constantly challenged with the barrage of indignities imposed on me by social agencies, administrators, other peoples, etc. and the subsequent resultant emotional duress, shame, frustration, and anger imposed on me, allow me to share my appreciation/opinion on these particular musical genres. And, although I do not condone violent actions, or succumbing to drugs or alcohol as an answer, I do in fact overwhelmingly understand why people do in fact act out by engaging in these mannerisms to quell their precarious, uncertain realities. All too often we gravitate to the bad instead of the good, and lyrical content in these particular musical genres are oftentimes taken out of content, and therefore misinterpreted. To paraphrase the band Test Department, I think we live in "a society that believes more in conspicuously favoring its wealthy citizens, its corrupt and denies its citizens basic human rights" which is why I write this review. I personally think Hip-Hop/Rap are always on the short-end of the stick. And, to this end, I feel stongly that extreme conditions demand extreme responses: I strongly believe Rap/Hip-Hop serves this purpose to one end.

» Here here! Posted by: eastcoker
» RE: Here here! Posted by: gerly

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Bring it back... more bla bla
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Posted by: gerly on Jun 21, 2006 5:21 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I couldn't fit everything in, in my previous post. Here's the rest of the bla bla

Below is a small sampling of releases/artists frome these genres whose releases from this decade I feel deserve a peep, a lap, and a listen. I feel they deserve this because not necessarily because of the controversy, but because of their compostionally musical prowess and talent, for their lyrical sense of compromise, intelligence, introspect, insight, sense, and sensibility based on their environments, and what they know....which is not to say, all persons can relate.

Anything by CRAIG MACK

Anything by OUTKAST

Anything by SISTA SOULJAH

Anything by TOTALLY INSANE

1991

QUEEN LATIFAH Nature of a Sista'(Tommy Boy)

1992

PETE ROCK & CL SMOOTH Mecca and the Soul Brother (Elektra)

1993

ED O.G. & DA BULLDOGS Roxbury 02119 (Chemistry)

THA ALKAHOLIKS 21 & Over (Loud/RCA/BMG)

1994

RAPPIN' 4-TAY Don't Fight the Feelin'(Chrysalis/EMI)

THE ROOTS Do You Want More? (DGC)

GIL SCOTT-HERON "Message to the Messengers" (TVT)

» RE: Bring it back... more bla bla Posted by: wordlife302

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One of the best articles ever put on this site.
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Posted by: mmeetoilenoir on Jun 21, 2006 5:28 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Thank you, Oprah, for putting your foot down and refusing to give these hateful men a platform to spew thier disdain from.

As an educated, intelligent, poised Black woman, you get it from all sides. You get flak if you date someone whose skin is lighter than yours, even though it's a mark of success for a rapper to do the same. You get called a bitch for daring to ignore some man who slinks up to you, innuendo dripping from his voice, saying that he "wants to be your friend" because hey, it worked for the Rapper of the Week! You're looked down upon for raising your children alone, or making good money, or being promoted at work, because you're selling out, and you're showing your man up.

I've been appalled at the virgin/whore dichotomies in hip-hop; they're so, so prominent! The ideal is this childless, skinny, long-haired, hazel-contacted princess that is unsullied by pregnancy, working, or education. I don't know the last time I saw one of these video paragons filmed being a doctor or a professor, can you?

The chickenhead/'ho/'bitch is invariably the girl who dares to dance, rejects the sloppy guy for someone else, or enjoys a sexually active lifestyle with no regrets; she flirts and has company with no guilt, just to have sex that's FUN. They have kids, usually by 5 different men (it happens, but dang! not as often as they make it sound), and they want- GASP! - child support.

Or, better still, she's in the background wearing a thong and shaking her ass for $50 and the honor of "representing her community"...no lie, I heard that exact quote coming from the mouth of a rapper on an MTV special once, as he was trying to convince these young ladies that thier bootyshakin' would be the beginning of the road to success, fame, and fortune.

Thanks to much of hip-hop's influence, so many things have been made unavailable or difficult in the inner city. I truly believe that hip-hop has affected teens' self-esteem, decision-making skills, motivation to learn, and so much more. There is NO reason that young kids in the IC should be thinking that Black women mean nothing to anyone. None. There's also no reason that they should think that working is for chumps, a souped-up car is more important than a savings account, and that being a pimp is a fast, fast way to get "respect".

I remember my ex, who is Russian, telling me that there were so many gorgeous, strong Black women around, and that it amazed the hell out of him that we weren't respected more in modern, hip-hop driven inner city society. At the risk of getting flamed, he even said that people better watch out, because there are men who want a good, strong woman no matter what her skin tone, and that they will be swept off thier feet by someone who will actually treat them right. And he wasn't the only person that's said this to me, either. Mind you, we're both Goth, and we don't listen to a huge lot of the genre, but it was clear, even to him, that there was a great divide in the reality of Black women and the regard paid to them by many rappers, which in turn radiates out through thier art into the community conciousness.

To summarize: Oprah's right. Most hip-hop blows as far as women are concerned. Listen to Saul Williams, because he rocks. Go to an open-mic night and hear some goodness coming from that stage. Don't buy into the short-sighted vision of men who are just full of hate that are "just not understoooooood! WAAAAAAAAAH!" We Black women are better than this, and no one needs to be calling anyone any kind of stupid-ass names for the sake of a "hot" video and a bottle of freaking Cristal.

» Rock on girl! Posted by: eastcoker

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Dear Oprah
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Posted by: wordlife302 on Jun 21, 2006 6:01 PM   
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As a male and in to hiphop and 41 yrs old I think that they have a need to be on your show I know that you have questions that you need answered from these rappers so get them on your show and ask why ?

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Opinion Leaders...
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Posted by: Steven Wanzell on Jun 21, 2006 6:02 PM   
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Are solely responsible for the opinions they form in others, whether through art, blog or public service. Sexism, like homophobia are rampant in the black community, and acknowledging this fact is long overdue. These rappers are the epidemy of arrogance and negative role models. And for what? CASH! Painting themselves as activists of humanity is an insult to human rights activism.

Steven Wanzell
artist/activist/ex-American
www.wanzellarts.com.ar

» RE: Opinion Leaders... Posted by: Money Over People
» RE: Opinion Leaders... Posted by: MKat
» RE: Opinion Leaders... Posted by: Michelle
» Michelle Sucks!! Posted by: FauxPorteno
» RE: Michelle Sucks!! Posted by: dissidentpoet
» RE: Michelle Sucks!! Posted by: Steven Wanzell
» accuracy can be helpful Posted by: Michelle
» oy oy oy Posted by: Michelle
» RE: oy oy oy Posted by: FauxPorteno
» MY PLACE Posted by: Steven Wanzell

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lower classes? anti-Black man?
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Posted by: dissidentpoet on Jun 21, 2006 6:36 PM   
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i agree, that made my eyes roll.

and as a Black man, i have to say i am a little tired of seeing Oprah get tension etc. for "hating Black men" or something for her movies that she has done/been in. i have only seen 3 movies that she has been in (there could be more, i don't know) and all were classic books written by Black authors: The Color Purple, Native Son, and Beloved. and the one with the worst image of Black men was the one BY a Black man, richard Wright's Native Son.

these works are real, and look at the varied levels of oppression Black women face: race, gender, class, sexuality. we as Black men may not like it when we are looked at for our messed up male behavior as opposed to our heroic Black behavior; everyone would rather be seen for the oppressions they fight, rather than the oppressions they feed.

but i have learned and continue to learn from those books and movies, and i am not going to sit by and let someone run down oprah's movies for that.

her show, i don't watch enough to judge. i'm more likely (honestly) to be watching cartoons if i have the tv on at tha time, so what do i know? but i do know a Black political prisoner, a former member of the Black Liberation Army, who watches it fairly religiously and enjoys it as a Black man, so i'll give it a little respect for that.

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Recognition From Oprah?
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Posted by: bubacar on Jun 21, 2006 8:19 PM   
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When Rosa Parks an American icon becomes fair game for blantant disrespect , Ice Cube has lost the right to expect recognition from Oprah or anyone else.

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YES IT'S BAD BUT IS IT REALLY AFFECTING MUCH...STUDY IN ARTICLE EXPLAINED.
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Posted by: Bwesley on Jun 21, 2006 8:32 PM   
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This article states that the studies proves black females studied don't feel valued, however this is not the case for most black females in the country. Mostly its females having trouble with and constantly talking about their issues with black men. Most black males do not look down on black females and most black females do not feel worthless. If anything its the other way around, they have a sense of pride and love of their body and mind despite their physical appearance. Most studies state that black females have less of a negative body image than any other races in America. Also black females are historically and still revered for their strength and position in society. THIS HAS NOT CHANGED AND NO AMOUNT OF NEGATIVE RAP CAN CHANGE THIS. THIS WOULD BE LIKE WHITE AMERICANS THINKING ALL BLONDS ARE DUMB, SLUTTY AND TRAILER TRASH BECAUSE THEY SEE PARIS HILTON AND BRITNEY SPEARS AND THE LIKE ON TV 24/7.

New Report Details Sexual Trends Among Low-Income Black Urban Youth...

This extraordinarily frank report, This is My Reality -- The Price of Sex: An Inside Look at Black Urban Youth Sexuality, summarizes findings from 40 focus groups conducted in ten cities in 2002, and offers many sobering insights from low-income Black youth (ages 16-20) on their views about sex, relationships, pregnancy, abstinence and marriage...

"These Black youth wanted-and needed-to be heard, and we went into their communities and listened," said MEE President, Ivan Juzang. "For the most part, Black urban youth are not getting the information and guidance they need to make good choices about their sexual health. They view sex as a transaction, harbor little trust for each other, and believe that adults are contributing to the problem of early, casual sex and pregnancy."

The young people who participated in this study live in households with less than $25,000 in annual income.

African-Americans have achieved some of the steepest declines in both teen pregnancies and births. Between 1990 and 1999 (most recent data available), teen pregnancy rates for Black teens (aged 15-19) declined 30 percent, compared to 25 percent for the nation as a whole.

Some key findings from the report:

-- Trust and communication are rare, and young Black girls in particular do not feel valued. In the focus groups, males said that they don't trust females and females said that they don't trust each other; many noted frequent relationships between young girls and adult men; and males and females both reported a high level of derogatory sexual terms used to describe women. Young men frequently said that one reason they did not have having a single, steady partner is that they don't trust girls to be faithful. Both sexes said that cheating was rampant and that many guys had both a regular girlfriend ("wifey") and casual sex partners ("shortys") -- and that condom use was more prevalent with casual sex partners than in steady relationships.

-- Becoming a teen parent seems more realistic than abstaining from sex, getting married, or having a successful future. Young people in the study report that they are growing up in environments where sex is commonplace, marriage is rare, and teen parenthood is the norm. Teen parenthood carries little stigma; in fact, for many having a child at an early age is seen as a positive step. Many young people believe that "everyone is doing it," a message that they said was constantly reinforced by the media.

-- Parents can help, but they often don't. Many in the study say that adults are contributing to the problem of early, casual sex by (1) trying to act "young" and engaging in risky sexual behavior themselves, (2) offering overt or tacit approval for early sex...

http://www.scienceblog.com/ community/older/ archives/K/1/pub1172.html

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gansgta - politics - global greed
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Posted by: philame on Jun 22, 2006 12:54 AM   
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Usually I walk away from Alternet wonedering why I bothered to read reader's posts but this was actually a great discussion. Heated at times - and it should be - but a great discussion.

It's positive to see gender issues within the black community get discussed openly and critically - not only the song lyrics but also the expectation that black women should always support black men no matter what.

This issue though is bigger than Oprah, bigger than the music and bigger than the black community. Of course individuals and groups - and even a talkshow host - can affect social change BUT if Americans actually demanded that the government do its job - governing - then we'd really see some changes.

The black community is a community but it is not impervious or surrounded by concrete walls. It is a part of American society so therefore its problems can't be seperated from American problems. The rap music industry is a great example of this. Even if it were possible for all black people to unite and come out against this sort of music, what about all the white middle class teens that are buying it? They are a huge part of the problem with a heap of issues yet to be discussed here. If we focus only on the black community, we're missing a huge piece of the puzzle. Main point: this isn't just a black problem so cannot be solved as a black problem.

At the end of the day I am more concerned about the realities out there than song lyrics. I agree with previous posters who wrote we can't expect a talk show host and the over popular self-transformation ideology to save us. Of course we as individuals have a certain amount of power of our lives, but we are not islands. I want to see empowerment connected to politics again - not psychologists and talk show hosts. We should be demanding that the state redirect money to support projects that in turn support education and community renewal. Not random acts of corporate-sponsored Oprah kindness or Extreme Home Makeover. I don't see that shoft happening any time soon but that is where our focus ought to be.

And I wrote this elsewhere but feel it should be repeated. I am in no way surprised that in a time of rampant global hyper-consumerism and dog-eat-dog global business practices that this music is the soundtrack of choice. Just want to underline that the problem is bigger than the black community. It's a racialized problem - yes and that's f**ked up - but it's simultaneously much bigger than that.

» RE: wow - deep man!! Posted by: FauxPorteno

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Rappers and Oprah-Bashing
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Posted by: pppmanly on Jun 22, 2006 9:57 AM   
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Oprah is not obligated to invite these rappers on her show; it’s her show and she can invite or not invite whom she wants. These rappers have such a sense of entitlement – who the hell are they?! Many of them became so-called 'stars' just yesterday! They need to get a grip! Oprah should not allow these select rappers to use this hate and envy-filled campaign to extort her into making them a regular part of her show. She should maintain the classiness of her show. Of course, not all of hip-hop music is negative and bad. There is much of it that is positive, such as recent hits from Kanye West, LL Cool J, Mary J. Blige, Will Smith, etc., all of whom she has had on the show. However, the music industry and other media ensure that the negative images of ourselves dominate the airwaves, and as fools we play into it as artists and product buyers.

Like Oprah, I like some hip-hop music, but not some of the rap music out there that portrays black people as brainless, violent barbarians. My being black does not mean I have to embrace and like all of hip-hop music, just like many white people don’t necessarily like heavy-metal rock or country music. I am very disappointed, yet not totally surprised about his bashing of Oprah Winfrey via the media, which is, of course, eating up this 'juicy' story. Since the first related story broke a few months ago involving Chris “Ludacris” Bridges, every media house/magazine and even the Associated Press bring up the issue over and over again in their interviews with rap/ hip-hop stars in order to deliberately put fuel to the fire, and get publicity for their publication. They are so transparent and unscrupulous.

50 Cent is apparently upset that Oprah does not often invite rappers on her show, though he claims "Oprah's audience is my audience's parents... So, I could care less about Oprah or her show." If he doesn't care about her show, then why is he complaining about not being invited on it? That doesn't make sense. I think he and others are bitter about Oprah not allowing them to perpetuate their negative, violent, sexist, brainless, stereotypical image of black males on her show, and I don't blame her. These rappers and the music industry behind them, have the rest of the media, which is more than happy to help them continue to stereotype and put down the minds of black young people.

We are probably the only people who use a term ("nigga") that was used to dehumanize and torture our ancestors, now as a term of so-called 'endearment'. I think we as black people have the lowest self-esteem of all races. Anyone who tries to promote the dignity and pride we should have as a people, and the fact that we should show respect for our black women and children, is shot down and ironically accused of being "against the community," when in fact that person is standing up for the community.
Don't you think white supremacists and other racists in our society and the world enjoy seeing black men being portrayed as sexist, homophobic, brainless sex addicts, and black women being called "bitches" and "hoes" in rap videos? Of course, they do! After all, we are now oppressing our own selves through our own culture. Young black boys and girls now think that that part of hip-hop culture defines who they are, which is sad.

Rappers: Smell the roses (or whatever non-drug substance you want to smell)! Some of us just revel in ignorance, and think it is so 'cool' -- that's unfortunate. You are being used, and you don't even know it, or probably you do and don’t care as long as your pockets are lined with cash.

Become a part of the solution for saving our community, not a part of the problem! You can do all the charity work you want for good public relations, but it is counterproductive if the rest of your efforts and work denigrate instead of uplift our people.

» RE: appers and Oprah-Bashing Posted by: droscify
» RE: appers and Oprah-Bashing Posted by: droscify

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Kittynboi
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Posted by: kittynboi on Jun 22, 2006 1:07 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What does it matter? Rap isn't real music anyway.

» RE: Kittynboi Posted by: Scientz
» RE: Kittynboi Posted by: Kym525
» RE: Kittynboi Posted by: kittynboi
» RE: Kittynboi Posted by: Scientz
» RE: Kittynboi Posted by: kittynboi
» RE: Kittynboi Posted by: Scientz

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calling all concerned parents
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Posted by: billevans on Jun 22, 2006 1:43 PM   
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please dont let ludacris or 50 cent be the one to influence you to never let any hiphop near your childrens' ears. they're idiots. when i have kids i will definately keep a close watch on what theyre listening to, and you're right to be concerned about hiphop, as A LOT of it does send terrible messages. however, some of it doesn't, and it makes me sad that some kids will be shut out of an entire art-form because of a few idiots on tv. music is the most amazing thing, it enriches your soul and improves your mind, and believe it or not some hiphop can do this. definately watch what your kids listen to, but judge it on an artist to artist basis, not genre to genre. depriving people of good music is a sin
thanks

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SESpruiell
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Posted by: SESpruiell on Jun 22, 2006 4:43 PM   
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In a message dated 6/22/2006 8:19:08 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, Yvonne Bynoe writes:

>And now Ice Cube, the former frontman for controversial rap group N.W.A, has >expressed his displeasure with Oprah. He told FHM magazine that he's been >involved with three projects that were pitched to Oprah but has yet to receive an >invite. "Maybe Oprah's got a problem with hip hop," Ice Cube said.

Duh Yeah. It's the same problem I have.

>The main focus of this brouhaha is not hip hop or rap, but the commercially >successful subset of these genres that has transformed the public image of black >women from flygirls to bitches, tricks, 'hos and chickenheads. This is the same >sector of hip hop that has mainstreamed stripper culture, reduced the value of >women to their body parts (remember Nelly's music video "Tip Drill?") and mocked >the importance of love.

My beef is even more substantial. I object to the glorification of material acquisition, by any means necessary, regardless of its' consequences to the community. I object to the glorification of The Thug, The Hood and The Gangster as a representation of what a Man is supposed to be. I object to the use of homophobic language as a means to control and dominate other males. I object to the romantizing of violence and criminal behavior. I object to the importation of jailhouse culture as a cultural norm in the street. I resent the fact that anyone who objects to the content and context of Gangster Rap is called a hater. I resent the fact that the perpetrators of Gangster Rap see no corollary between the artform they are promoting and the denigration and disintegration of The Black Community. The perpetrators of Gangster Rap are rationalists and apologists of all the negative syndromes I just mentioned. We are told that there is more than one style of Rap, but Gangster Rap has become the mainstream. Gangster Rappers are Judasists, receiving bags of gold while betraying Black Culture.

I also object on an aesthetic basis. I object to the fact that most Rappers do not possess or care about musical skills. I object that originality has gone down the toilet in favor of generic, assembly style production. I object to the over reliance on the drum machine and the synthesizer, and that these tools are generally not used in a creative manner. I object the absence of real singing skills and techniques. I object to the over reliance of image over substance. I resent the fact that the masses have been spoon fed garbage for so long, they don't know quality when they hear it.

>Then 50 Cent -- the infamous crack dealer turned rap artist -- joined the fray, telling >the Associated Press that Oprah rarely invites rap artists on her show. Revealing >his disdain for what he characterized as Oprah's older, female, and primarily white >audience, he said, "[I] couldn't care less about Oprah or her show."

And obviously, Oprah couldn't care less about 50 Cent. 50 Cent declared that he was going to "Get Rich or Die Trying." Oprah is already one of the richest women in the world and could buy and sell 50 Cent several times over. Although in the past I have accused her show of "Man-bashing", she has turned that around and deals pretty even handedly with Black Men and Women.

Yvonne Bynoe suggests that Rappers should get their own talk show.

Please spare me.

Rappers need to do the right thing for The Black community or Shut Up.

"Talkin loud and sayin nothin" - James Brown


Selah Eric Spruiell

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No, Jay-Z´s Not High-Strung or Overly Sensitive or Anything...
[Report this comment]
Posted by: ZPaul on Jun 23, 2006 3:49 AM   
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From Time magazine: "After a Cristal exec said he views the high-end champagne´s popularity wit hip-hop as a "curiosity," JAY-Z felt dissed and decided to boycott, neither drinking it nor serving it at his chain of lounges."
Sure, he has the right to do it, but unless the exec said something else more offending than that, doesn´t that sound like the man´s overreacting a bit? Well, if his "revenge" makes him feel better, whatever....

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Oprah raises the people up. Rappers lower the quality of life.
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Speaks_the_truth on Jun 24, 2006 11:15 PM   
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Those rappers complaining about Oprah in my opinion cannot even meet the class, honor and good that she has done compared to the trash they have churned out.

Gangsta Rap has duped many young people into life of misery, crime, violence, prison, jail, drugs and poverty. Meanwhile they live in rich communities and most grew up in middle class families. They are a fraud and Oprah is the real deal.

Oprah tells people to be the best they can be while Rappers sing about being the worse and lowest kind of human being.

Oprah not only speaks, but does what she says to better the lives of poor people and Rappers tear down our communities, especially our minority communities. A lot of young people of color, my people, are duped into thinking they are cool, but they are the new Uncle Toms and Steppin' and Fetchin's. They destroy our community from within. 50 Cent himself was a drug dealer peddling' drugs that we in poor communities believe the CIA has brought in. So he is a traitor to the people and not a hero. Enslaving poor people into a life of drugs and addiction. In my opinion they are like the Klan because of their actions they have killed, enslaved (to drug addiction and poverty) and caused young people to become involved in crime and violence.

Oprah has taught people that no matter how poor or through hardships like being sexually abused that a person can raise to be a great person and teach people to better themselves.

Rappers on the other hand have taught young impressionable young people to be selfish, violent, woman hating, ignorant, crude and stupid.

In my book. I choose Oprah over low lives. Gangsta Rappers cannot even wipe Oprah's behind in my opinion.

Oprah is the greatest...and they are traitors to the people.

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It's hilarious that...
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Zelda_Too_Blue on Jun 25, 2006 10:50 AM   
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these comments are made in such magazines as FHM, and the less slimy, but really sliding down that slope GQ. The male rappers who are complaining about Oprah Winfrey are more or less preaching to their choirs (and their buyers).

I agree with some of the other comments suggesting Winfrey devote an episode to a discussion about rap & hip-hop. It would be very interesting to hear both sides of the issue. Winfrey will go into controversial territory, however the record execs, publicists, and all those other behind the scenes folks who reap millions from their "artists" do not want real controversy, they only want the kind they manufacture to make sure more CDs are sold. That's too bad too, 'cause I'd love to see Nelly try to explain his songs and videos without the safety net of MTV editing and publicist spin.

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Hmmmm
[Report this comment]
Posted by: veive on Jun 25, 2006 11:20 AM   
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For a guy, or maybe a girl, with "thick skin," who doesn't give a damn about what anyone might have to say, Scientz seems unable to let any comment slide. I'd say that kinda proves some kind of damn is being given.

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Pretty impressive.
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Daniel Burk on Jun 25, 2006 11:58 AM   
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This place somehow manages to rival the Aint It Cool News talkbacks in it's levels of productive dialogue. It's encouraging.

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Chris Rock once said...
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Zelda_Too_Blue on Jun 25, 2006 3:08 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
in his comedy act, "there are blacks and then there are n____s," and the audience practically said this with him! I was kinda surprised by his comment. It seemed below the belt and far too obvious for him. The thing is, I LOVE Rock, his commentary and eagle-eyed critiques (like at the Oscars after Polanski won for "The Piano," Rock said, "You boo the anti-war guy [Moore] off stage, and you cheer for a child rapist!") are brave and refreshing.
My point is, Oprah champions Rock whenever she can, but was Rock's unoriginal, all-too-often said comment about "blacks and n____" demeaning and racist?
I love Oprah and I love Rock, but what he said has always stuck with me. I'm just curious as to whether anybody else has any insights into this?

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Rappers and the Klan
[Report this comment]
Posted by: pnsuitec on Jun 25, 2006 3:16 PM   
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The mentality of most rappers regarding black people is so similar to what white supremacists subscribe to that it would not surprise me to discover that their rise to prominence was orchestrated by the ku klux klan. The messages we get from hip-hop "artists" and white hate mongers about how to deal with black folks are virtually indistinguishable: exploitation, degradation, and extermination. Thank you Oprah for standing firm against these traitors. It's good to know that not all of us are in the dark about who they really work for.

 
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