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The 9/11 Faith Movement

By Terry J. Allen, In These Times. Posted July 12, 2006.


Despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary, nearly half of all Americans believe the Bush administration is covering up its involvement in the 9/11 attacks.
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Americans love a conspiracy. According to a May 17 Zogby poll, 42 percent believe the U.S. government and the 9/11 Commission are covering up what really happened on September 11, 2001.

There is something comforting about a world where someone is in charge -- either for good (think gods) or evil (think Bush insiders plotting 9/11). Many people prefer to believe a Procrustean conspiracy rather than accept the alternative: Life can be random, viciously unjust, and meaningless; tragedy and joy alike flow from complex combinations of good and bad intentions, careful plotting, random happenstance and bumbling incompetence.

Conspiracy hypotheses often consist of a vast pile of circumstantial evidence shaped into a seemingly coherent whole with the strong glue of faith. Debunk one or even many allegations and the pile still stands, impressive in its bulk and ideological coherence. If size were all, it would convince Pyrrho himself.

Scientific theories, on the other hand, depend on interlocking chains of evidence: The integrity of the whole relies on the soundness of each link. Break any one and the theory founders.

The 9/11 conspiracy is a classic example of a faith-based pile hypothesis. Its proponents cite a mountain of evidence to conclude that the U.S. government perpetrated the 9/11 attacks for its own traitorous ends, chiefly staging "a new Pearl Harbor" to rally support for an invasion of Iraq.

I spent months as a researcher conducting a fact-by-fact dissection of a few key aspects of this hypothesis. I approached the project knowing that U.S. cabals had previously concocted casus belli to drive public support for war: the Gulf of Tonkin for Vietnam, incubator babies for the first Gulf War. And clearly from its early days, the Bush administration had lusted for war with Iraq.

But the hypothesis that it planned and executed the 9/11 attacks is just not supported by a chain of evidence, nor do the facts support the conspiracists' key charge that World Trade Center buildings were destroyed by pre-positioned explosives. Structural engineers found the destruction consistent with fires caused by the jet liner strike; that temperatures need not actually melt the steel but that expansion and other fire-related stresses would account for compromised architectural integrity.

When David Ray Griffin, a theologian by trade, said it was "physically impossible by laws of physics" for the planes alone to have brought down the towers, I asked what engineers had confirmed that. "I haven't talked to any because they would be too afraid to tell the truth," he said. "How would you be able to protect your family if you were to accuse the government?" he asked, accusing the government.

Many conspiracists offer the collapse of WTC Building 7 as the strongest evidence for the kind of controlled demolition that would prove a plot. Although not hit by planes, it was damaged by debris, and suffered fires eventually fueled by up to 42,000 gallons of diesel fuel stored near ground level. Griffin cited as evidence of government complicity that the building's sprinkler system should have, but didn't, put out the fires. But the theologian did not know and had not considered that the collapse of the towers had broken the area's water main.

Another conspiracist, Alex Jones, writes on his web site, "Larry Silverstein, the owner of the WTC complex, admitted ... that he and the NYFD decided to 'pull' WTC 7." (Leave aside how unlikely it would be for the government to include Silverstein in a treasonous conspiracy, or that the NYFD was in on it, too.)

Silverstein's actual quote: "I remember getting a call from the fire department commander, telling me that they were not sure they were going to be able to contain the fire, and I said, 'We've had such terrible loss of life, maybe the smartest thing to do is pull it.' And they made that decision to pull and we watched the building collapse."

Jones continues: "The word 'pull' is industry jargon for taking a building down with explosives." In fact, a Nexis search for a three-year period fails to find one American reference to "pull a building" without the preposition "down" when referring to intentional destruction. An alternative explanation would be that given the lack of water and the number of injured and missing firefighters, the NYFD decided to pull workers from Building 7 to concentrate on search and rescue at the fallen towers.

In the end, this kind of undermining of individual "facts," although relatively easy, is irrelevant for those who base their beliefs on piles rather than chains of evidence.

But the work should be done. Pile conspiracies can be dangerous. Those who deny that HIV is responsible for AIDS, for example, have contributed to unnecessary infections and deaths.

And the 9/11 conspiracy hypotheses distracts from the growing chain of evidence documenting how the Bush administration actually manipulated this country to war on a train of lies riding tracks of fear -- cynically using the bodies of the 9/11 victims as fuel.

Digg!

Terry J. Allen is a senior editor of In These Times. Her work has appeared in Harper's, The Nation, New Scientist and other publications.

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View:
Scholars for 9/11 Truth
Posted by: calvinswift on Jul 12, 2006 12:30 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
» wing nut theory Posted by: prod
» RE: wing nut theory Posted by: ZombyWoof
» RE: FACTs Posted by: Ghoulman
» RE: FACTs Posted by: kogwonton
» RE: FACTs Posted by: polyquat50
» RE: FACTs Posted by: kogwonton
» RE: FACTs Posted by: FedererFan
» RE: FACTs Posted by: rverne8
» Bush's Involvement Posted by: Happy
» RE: Bush's Involvement Posted by: kellysgarden
» RE: Bush's Involvement Posted by: babs
» Marvin Bush Posted by: brunowe
» yeah Posted by: peritonlogon
» RE: wing nut theory Posted by: rbentley
» RE: wing nut theory Posted by: ProgressiveManiac
» ReOpen911.org Posted by: calvinswift
» RE: Scholars for 9/11 Truth Posted by: deo508
it was the gods
Posted by: aurora2484 on Jul 12, 2006 12:47 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
These guys must have had a role in it somewhere - too many miraculous events just happened along the way:

www.whatreallyhappened.com/handofallah.php

» yo ghoulman! Posted by: aurora2484
» RE: oops! Posted by: Ghoulman
The evidence is gone.
Posted by: wli on Jul 12, 2006 1:36 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Definitive smoking gun -type evidence can't exist for the simple reason that all the physical and video evidence is either destroyed, or a permanent state secret, or permanently in the hands of suspects.

On the other hand, the official story has long-since been debunked. There's a coverup of something. Precisely what will never be known with absolute certainty.

There's a great deal of circumstantial evidence strongly suggesting the events did not occur as officially described. The Griffin quote, even if genuine, amounts to a smear. The analyses of the collapses are nowhere near so shallow.

There are a number of reasons beyond the specifics of the attack why a false flag attack should be the operational assumption and official explanations completely discounted.

1. False flag attacks are standard practice. (c.f. "armed propaganda" from counterinsurgency literature)
2. Investigations such as the 9/11 Commission are equivalent to the suspect investigating themselves and as such should be lent no credence whatsoever.
3. Near-instant announcement of the alleged perpetrator's identity.
4. Predetermined response with preparations prior to the event; the Afghan war plans were prepared shortly before 9/11.
5. Variance with the modus operandi of the alleged perpetrator; previously OBL had attacked military targets in Middle Eastern countries deemed occupied.
6. Excessive numbers of "happy coincidences" for the suspect (US administration).
7. Institutional affiliation of the suspects with known false flag attack campaigns, in particular Gladio via Ledeen and Kissinger's membership in the Montecarlo Comite and association with P2, and their history of close cooperation with the members of the administration.
8. Highly unusual activity by the suspects surrounding the attack, such as the military exercises, direct assumption of control of the air response, warnings not to fly, inconsistent stories about learning of the attack, etc.

These are arguments for an operational assumption, not proof. The evidence has long-since been destroyed and the official story is rather obviously hogwash. Circumstantial cases may be made, but they'll never get anywhere anyway. The important thing to take from the operational assumption is the level of violence involved.

» RE: The evidence is gone. Posted by: glorybe
» RE: The evidence is gone. Posted by: hawkwtchr
Great article! Conspiracy theorists need to MoveOn
Posted by: prod on Jul 12, 2006 1:38 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is a major distraction plus it gives the right wingers ammunition to call all liberals crazy.

You have to be out of your mind to think 9/11 was an inside job. Plus it is giving Bush too much credit. He had only been in office for a few months.

It doesn't help that the major pusher of the 9/11 conspiracy theory also famously claims the moon landings were fakes.

I question anybody's sanity who believes 9/11 was an inside job. I have a feeling most of them are 40 years old, single and still living with their mothers.

» Well said Colin..... Posted by: starvinmarvy
» Alternet's motive Posted by: LeonDion
» Cheney did it. Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Cheney did it. Posted by: willymack
» out of your mind you say? Posted by: Iconoclast421
» Not "Great". Not by a long shot. Posted by: reprehensor
Several instances of flawed reasoning here
Posted by: HeroesAll on Jul 12, 2006 2:13 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Scientific theories, on the other hand, depend on interlocking chains of evidence: The integrity of the whole relies on the soundness of each link. Break any one and the theory founders.

That's not how I'd describe science, although there are aspects of truth. And it must be said that, just as there is no monolithic 'liberal' or 'conservative' or whatever political group, there is no single monolithic 'science'. There just ain't. Each branch of science has different procedures, different standards (not better or worse, just different), different aims, and different world views.

The other thing is that she's using the existence of a bunch of different claims to prove that 9/11 must have been as advertised, because 'science' doesn't do that. Well, she's actually confusing herself, and others, here. The variety of different claims are a bunch of things that are clearly, probably, or possibly, wrong with the official explanation. Each thread is considered possible evidence that 'something's not right' with that part of the official explanation. They're not all related together. She might equally be complaining that human medicine must be wrong because it depends on a bunch of threads from zoology, cellular biology, physical and inorganic chemistry, and so on.

So, her claims about 'science' are dubious. Let's move along. She then goes on to claim:

Its proponents cite a mountain of evidence to conclude that the U.S. government perpetrated the 9/11 attacks for its own traitorous ends

Well, there's not many who believe that. So she's immediately lumping everyone who has some doubt about aspects of the issue in with the extremist wing nuts. Rather like some wing nuts say that libruls want to take away everyone's toys and make us salute pictures of Stalin. There's a number of sensible people (yes, including myself) who believe that there are some serious unresolved questions about that day, and she's not addressing that at all.

She clearly hasn't read Griffin's book, because if she had, she'd have known that he was extremely clear about using (I think) 7 degrees of complicity, and discussed, for each piece of disputed story, which degree was most likely. If she has read it, of course, she's wilfully ignoring it, and therefore doing what we call lying.

I don't know why she's concerned about the use of the word 'pull' in reference to WTC7. It doesn't seem to me germane at all.

She's also ignoring the stonewalling conducted by the Bush administration with regards to investigations; the removal of materials from the site (I know forensics folk who had conniptions at this - it's a major sin in their lexicon); the hamstringing of the investigation when it finally began; and numerous other indications that the Bush administration had something to hide.

Yes, I think there are unanswered questions. Yes, I think the administration is hiding something (or some things). The evidence for that is pretty well unarguable. No, I don't think Bush and his cronies planned it all for their own fell purposes (although I wouldn't be surprised if they had, sadly). So why is she using such extreme, one-dimensional, illogic?

I'd also imagine that, if any of the claims could be proven, all of the other Bush cabal misdeeds would be immaterial, because an administration that connived in whatever way with the events of that day would be ridden out of town on a rail without further ado. Hoist by their own petard, in an almost literal sense.

» Conspiracy V Conspiracy Posted by: HeroesAll
» RE: Conspiracy V Conspiracy Posted by: brunowe
» RE: Conspiracy V Conspiracy Posted by: HeroesAll
» RE: Conspiracy V Conspiracy Posted by: WhuThe?!?
» RE: Conspiracy V Conspiracy Posted by: WhuThe?!?
» RE: Italics Posted by: IanA
» RE: Italics Posted by: WhuThe?!?
Conspiracy? I don't think so!
Posted by: cajajo on Jul 12, 2006 2:24 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Many conspiracists offer the collapse of WTC Building 7 as the strongest evidence for the kind of controlled demolition that would prove a plot.

Oh, please. If you really spent all that time researching a 'few' key elements, you'd know it takes at least 4-6 or more weeks planning and setting up the explosives to implode a building. This, and the fact that ALL evidence was quickly spirited away and destroyed; that cheney had NORAD halfway across the country, with no hope of intercepting these planes; there's no evidence bin Laden was involved per the FBI - these 'few' key elements (and there are many more) tell me that over 3,000 of our citizens were expendable that day. How you can say this is some conspiracy theory after looking at all the evidence - not coincidences - is beyond me.

» RE: Moon landing wasn't faked. Posted by: symcokid
Why Does Asking for the Truth Brand People as WingNuts??
Posted by: bttl on Jul 12, 2006 2:49 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There are enough holes in the official US government story of the 911 events to qualify as swiss cheese. The facts just do not add up. It is well known that the US government did in fact have advance warning of the intended attacks.

I want to ask you to consider just one point. If our country were truly under attack and it was a total suprise, would our president have been allowed to continue reading to a room of schoolchildren? Wouldn't he have been immediately whisked away, not just for his safety, but for the safety of the school? That instance alone(check out the footage of that) is just one piece of the smoking gun. Then of course there is the immdediate removal and recycling of the debris, the questionable Pentagon crash, who shot down the plane that crashed in the field; the list goes on and on.

The events of 911 were very convenient in terms of persuading a gullible public that we needed to take action against the "evil dooers". This was already planned.

I think that the main reason that some reject the notion that 911 is not as it was presented is either a stunning lack of imagination or else an acute case of denial; the innability to accept that our own government would facilitate this event.

I don't know if the buildings were or were not rigged to explode or any of those other issues. I am sure that top levels of our government did know of this plot and used it for their own purposes.

» RE: Because it's funny Posted by: deo508
What Kind of Government Shill Wrote This Article?!?
Posted by: bcgirl125 on Jul 12, 2006 3:17 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The official story of 9/11 is so full of holes, you could fly a jet plane through them. Just use your own eyes! We've all seen the video of the twin towers collapsing. Do buildings hit at the top by airplanes fall down neatly into their own footprints at the speed of gravity? And what did bring down the third building WTC 7, which was a block from the twin towers and never hit by any plane, if not demolition charges? Just spend half an hour cruising the web, and you'll find plenty more facts to make you suspicious. After all the false-flag operations the American government has run, after all the lies it has told, it's amazing there are so many gullible citizens left that half of Americans still believe the official fairy tale. Such stupidity is utterly shameful!

hank george
Posted by: hankgeorge on Jul 12, 2006 3:56 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am disappointed, Mr. author, that you did so little work on this matter before denouncing the alternative explanation of 9/11. I hope you have seen the seminal work by Dr. Jones at BYU, who is a world-class structural engineer and who debunks the official explanation for the twin towers coming down from the planes alone. He is ready to debate anyone...no takers.

If you saw WTC 7 come down and don't recognize an implosion by controlled demolition, you need to see a demo of this process. It was pulled...and you cannot set charges to pull a building in one day.

I think you need a much more sobering baptismal into the weigh of evidence here. When I first discovered THE NEW PEARL HARBOR by Griffin I bought it, in London on business, read it, was intrigued but hardly convinced, and went on from there. Now, there is no doubt in my mind that the official story is shredded.

I cannot emotionally accept that my government would do this on face value (forgetting that Gulf of Tonkin, the sinking of the Maine, etc, were all proven lies or inside jobs)...so all I want, all most of us who care about the truth and want to be able to restore trust want, is for an INDEPENDENT investigator - not a Bush close friend like the man who oversaw the content of discussion at the 9/11 Commission (which really was a one-sided con job) - to conduct a genuine study, hearing all evidence from all sides, before we simply concede that the official story is factual.

Assuming you are on objective and honest man - and I know I am both - then I think you really need to look deeper into what has been discovered by researchers since Griffin's two books and then see if you do not agree that this should be put to bed with a genuine investigation and not a transparent con job.

I don't see that this is unreasonable if so many people on the street have lingering questions about the perplexing global failure of all elements in an otherwise "foolproof" system all on the same day and the disturbing fact that NO ONE has lost their job or even been demoted, to my knowledge, for castastrophic failures. Don't you think my request for objectivity is fair, considering...?

Until you have done your homework as thoroughly as I have and until you have confronted the question of the basis for the 9/11 Commission Report, I don't think your opinion really means all that much...said with great respect for AlertNet and all the fine work done here.

» RE: That should be Ms. Author Posted by: sallyjrw
» RE: That should be Ms. Author Posted by: hankgeorge
» RE: hank george Posted by: kogwonton
Not Another Kennedy
Posted by: ChristopherLL on Jul 12, 2006 4:11 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I grew up with the Kennedy assasination conspiracy theorists under every rock. Just recently two Cuban intelligence agents finally revealed the truth; they had encouraged and financed Oswald. It not only makes purfect sense as they had details that fit perfectly to the actual events (that all other were trying to "fill the gaps") but of course had they spoken sooner catasrophic consequences from the venegance of this country would have occured. So they kept silent for years. This is not so with 9/11. The mastermind and organizer was caught two years ago and his testimony well documented. But paranoid, avoidant and/or obsessive compulsive personalities abound in this society and this is a chance for them to shine.

» Permit me to take umbrage Posted by: HeroesAll
» RE: Permit me to take umbrage Posted by: ChristopherLL
» RE: Permit me to take umbrage Posted by: Madalone
» RE: Permit me to take umbrage Posted by: ChristopherLL
» RE: Permit me to take umbrage Posted by: HeroesAll
» RE: Permit me to take umbrage Posted by: ChristopherLL
» RE: Permit me to take umbrage Posted by: hawkwtchr
» RE: Permit me to take umbrage Posted by: ChristopherLL
» RE: Permit me to take umbrage Posted by: HeroesAll
» RE: Permit me to take umbrage Posted by: ChristopherLL
» RE: Permit me to take umbrage Posted by: hawkwtchr
» RE: Permit me to take umbrage Posted by: ChristopherLL
» RE: Permit me to take umbrage Posted by: hawkwtchr
» RE: Permit me to take umbrage Posted by: hawkwtchr
» RE: Permit me to take umbrage Posted by: hawkwtchr
» RE: Permit me to take umbrage Posted by: WhuThe?!?
» RE: Not Another Kennedy Posted by: WhuThe?!?
» RE: Not Another Kennedy Posted by: ChristopherLL
» RE: Not Another Kennedy Posted by: hawkwtchr
» Khalid Sheikh Mohammed (NT) Posted by: brunowe
» RE: Khalid Sheikh Mohammed (NT) Posted by: ChristopherLL
» Further Explanation, please Posted by: WhuThe?!?
» RE: Further Explanation, please Posted by: ChristopherLL
» RE: Further Explanation, please Posted by: WhuThe?!?
» so... Posted by: Iconoclast421
» RE: so... Posted by: ChristopherLL
» Not Another Kennedy Conflation Posted by: reprehensor
» RE: Not Another Kennedy Conflation Posted by: ChristopherLL
» RE: NOT EVEN JOHN WAYNE Posted by: Neilium
The pile hypothesis
Posted by: ZombyWoof on Jul 12, 2006 4:20 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A problem with conspiracy research is that a motive is often assigned based on a pile of facts. Many of these researchers have discovered many verifiable interesting facts about 9-11. Some go further and assign a nefarious motive to one group or another, often with great leaps of logic. There are certainly a number of misconceptions and inflated evidence floating around the 9-11 research community because of shabby research, strong preconceptions or possible disinfo.

That being said, the author seems to believe that disproving a handful of off-the mark allegations is a reason to stop asking questions which have never been satisfactorily answered.

A pile hypothesis still demands a pile of information. We do have a pile of information which contradicts or brings into question the conventional wisdom. The administration has, in many ways, actively hindered the offical analysis of such information. Why, I do not know.

If these questions are so easily disposed of, the author would be better off doing some investigation and explaining away some of the key unanswered questions rather than cherry-picking a few of the low-lying straw men and recommending that the subject be dropped.

I often hear people say that there are some things we shouldn't know about the government's actions. I bristle at that because it is a way of telling yourself that you are absolved from responsibility as a citizen.

If the government doesn't work for us, it works for someone else. As Dylan sang, "You've got to serve somebody." No President is Superman. Different power centers always direct or influence the government. I would prefer it to be the citizens, but an uniformed citizenry is useless for that purpose. Unfortunately, that is the end result of too much secrecy in government.

» Zombywoof, are you a Zappa fan? Posted by: klaatukev
Almost, but not quite, incredible
Posted by: KateM on Jul 12, 2006 4:23 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Who wouldn't like to believe that some nasty cavedweller with a big fat trust fund and lousy kidneys got his fundamentalist whackjobs to do such a deed?

But anyone who reviews all the evidence there is, and ponders all the evidence that "disappeared," has to admit that there are far too many holes in the official story as it is presently told to swallow it without question. And then, on top of the evidence/missing evidence directly related to the 9/11 event (and hey, how 'bout that anthrax?) take a look at what happened in the months leading up and leading away from it.

There needs to be a lot more open debate between scholars on both sides of this, a lot more 'splainin' to do. Period. Just because we don't WANT to believe it shouldn't make people bury their pinheads in the sand.

» RE: Almost, but not quite, incredible Posted by: sirossisofliver
The definaition of faith, something most Evangelical Rightists don't know
Posted by: deo508 on Jul 12, 2006 4:32 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Phillipians 1:11 Now, faith is the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things unseen.

I'd like to see someone question Bush or Dobson on this. Or, ask any so-called Christian Republican Politician what the Bible says is faith. They don't know a Goddamned thing about faith.
9/11 was done by Bin Laden under the watchful eyes of Mossad and the Israelis and the NeoCons. There is evidence proving this.
The Israelis wanted us to get hit so that we would get drawn into their war against the Arabs and therby sanction their continuing slow agonizing policy of under the radar genocide of the Palestinians. There are statements made by high level Israelis like Netanyahu proving this thereby making it evidence.
The Neocons wanted us to get hit so that we could go to war in the Middle East. They needed an excuse to begin execution of their Project for the New American Century. There is evidence proving this.
Bin Laden, fair guy that he is, warned us tht it was coming. There is evidece proving this.
FBI agents did their job and found the hijackers at different stages of their plan but the Bush Mafia buried the intel. There is evidence proving this. Again, THE FBI DID THEIR JOB AND DI IT WELL.
CIA, for all it's detractors, sent a Memo to Bush stating that Bin Laden was determind to hijack planes and strike them inot buildings. There is evidence proving this. AGAIN, THE CIA DID THEIR JOB WELL.
Faith, the only thing I take on faith is the evidence that the Likudnic Israelis and the American Neocons wate to go to war even before 9/11 when they drafted the PNAC letter and sent it to President Clinton urging him to invade Iraq. They are crazy and insane people every one.
Faith is a concept for people who have no evidence, have no use for facts or science, have no use for reality. In other words, it's a biblical fantasy.

Maybe not a conspiracy, but...
Posted by: grokked on Jul 12, 2006 4:36 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I've never been a great believer in conspiracy theories, as the kind of chessmasster mentality that could plan and pull one off is usually rare. (Rove, unfortunately, seems to be an exception.)

However, I do think that opportunities sometimes present themselves, and motives are not always what you would think.

For example, in the early days of the CIA campaign in Afganistan, the in-country CIA guys and the local militias had Bin Laden and his chumps holed up in the Tora Bora mountain region. Why did it really take Rumsfeld a month to get troops in there? If they had gotten in there earlier, Bin Laden would be in a cell today, and the "diffusion" of Al Queada would not have happened.

Was it really just an innocent case of logistics, as Rumsfeld claims?

More likely, was it due to the on-going "war" between Rumsfeld, Cheney, and their neo-con buddies in the pentagon vs. Tennent and the CIA for Bush's "favors"?

Or, is there still a third possibility?

Could it be that catching Bin Laden two months after 9/11 was simply too soon for the neo-con agenda?

Would catching Bin Laden early have ruined their plans for a jolly little war in Iraq (and Iran, and Syria, and...) ?

Inquiring minds want to know...

» or he is a FOB Posted by: Lauren
» Bin who? Posted by: paulaH
war criminals
Posted by: rsaxto on Jul 12, 2006 4:40 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
With presidential war criminals galore and a complex addiction to secrecy in effect we may never know comprehensive truth about all the major players who created the factors that made 9/11 happen. We know for sure the Bushies did and are doing numerous war crimes and other crimes. Whether they assisted in the boost of 9/11 that made it possible for two Bushie terms in office they definitely benefited from 9/11 in every which way. So they need to be impeached in every which way so that we can, under oath, get more of the truth. We can argue every which way but we need to torch Bushie asses under oath to get the full truth. IMPEACH.

» RE: war criminals Posted by: kogwonton
Be afraid…?
Posted by: Arvy on Jul 12, 2006 4:47 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I grew up in London during the 70s and 80s and faced the daily 'threat' of IRA attacks.
At the time the government always encouraged the citizens to stay calm, don't panic, don't be afraid, go about your business and don't let the bastards terrorise you.
With this new, 'Islamic terrorist threat' we are almost told the opposite; that we should be afraid (except when it gets in the way of shopping).
This is the main reason that I suspect the whole thing has been manufactured or, if you like, used to extend government powers. At least in the UK, anyway.

» RE: Be afraid…? Posted by: FedererFan
Finally a fair look at the consiracy theory view - and the NY Times
Posted by: Conservasaurus on Jul 12, 2006 4:49 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"When David Ray Griffin, a theologian by trade, said it was "physically impossible by laws of physics" for the planes alone to have brought down the towers, I asked what engineers had confirmed that. "I haven't talked to any because they would be too afraid to tell the truth," he said. "How would you be able to protect your family if you were to accuse the government?" he asked, accusing the government."

The only argument one needs to refute the conspiracy theorists are statements like that above.The more people like this talk and make unsubstantiated comments, the more it diminishes the far left arguments and position re 911. Most Americans know Bush had nothing to do with the attacks.. Common sense prevails....

A side point.. their was a demonstration in front of the New York Times building yesterday protesting the papers propensiety to divulge sensitive and crucial government programs designed to fight terrorism. The NY Times has past the point of objective reporting. According to a Fox News analysis, the Times has written about 180 articles in the past 11 months, all negative, about the Bush Administration.. Hopefully they will make some editorial changes and return to a more balanced approach to their preorting and not take it upon themselves to danger all Americans!!!

» We have a terrorist among us????? Posted by: Conservasaurus
» We have a terrorist among us????? Posted by: Conservasaurus
» Hey, I'm with you. Posted by: HeroesAll
» RE: Hey, I'm with you. Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: This guy is joking right? Posted by: kungfoofighterx
» I do think the joke is on YOU! Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Finally a fair look at the...NYT??? Posted by: Conservasaurus
Call me a wingnut
Posted by: earnesteliot on Jul 12, 2006 4:59 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Two thoughts: ONE: When we cannot imagine a worst case scenario, and/or accuse others (including real wingnuts) of being insane because they DO imagine worst case scenarios, we open the door for the worst case to become real, without ever being questioned; TWO: If you can imagine the combined wealth and power invested in a very few people, many of whom express neo-fascist attitudes, and if you can imagine their fear of a real democracy demanding real economic justice, it is not at all hard to imagine a hidden group with the will and means to carry out 9/11 as theater. Bush didn't need to know about it to be complicit. It might have been nothing more than intentionally ignoring solid knowledge of the attacks; but I agree, there are still way too many unanswered questions ... such as, why no aircraft debris at the the Pentagon?