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Right-Wing Group Calling It Quits?

By Jim Lobe, Inter Press Service. Posted June 16, 2006.


It looks like the Project for the New American Century, the neocon group that promoted the invasion of Iraq, is closing down.
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In the absence of an official announcement and the failure since late last year of a live person to answer its telephone number, a Washington Post obituary would seem to be definitive. And, sure enough, the Post quoted one unidentified source presumably linked to PNAC that the group was "heading toward closing" with the feeling of "goal accomplished."

In fact, the 9-year-old group, whose 27 founders included Vice President Dick Cheney and Pentagon chief Donald Rumsfeld, among at least half a dozen of the most powerful hawks in the George W. Bush administration's first term, has been inactive since January 2005, when it issued the last of its "statements," an appeal to significantly increase the size of the U.S. Army and Marine Corps to cope with the growing demands of the kind of "Pax Americana" it had done so much to promote.

As a platform for the three-part coalition that was most enthusiastic about war in Iraq -- aggressive nationalists like Cheney, Christian Zionists of the religious Right, and Israel-centred neo-conservatives -- PNAC actually began breaking down shortly after the Iraq invasion.

It was then that the group's predominantly neo-conservative leadership -- Weekly Standard editor William Kristol, PNAC director Gary Schmitt, and Carnegie Endowment for International Peace analyst Robert Kagan -- began attacking Rumsfeld, in particular, for failing to deploy enough troops to pacify the country and launch a true nation-building exercise, as in post-World War II Germany and Japan.

It was the first of a number of policy splits that, along with the deepening quagmire in Iraq itself, have debilitated the hawks, forcing neo-conservatives in the group to reach out to liberal interventionists with whom they sponsored a series of joint statements extolling the virtues of nation-building and a larger army, or calling for a tougher U.S. stance toward Russia and China.

PNAC was launched by Kristol and Kagan in 1997, shortly after their publication of an article in Foreign Affairs magazine entitled "Toward a Neo-Reaganite Foreign Policy," in which they called for Washington to exercise "benevolent global hegemony" to be sustained "as far into the future as possible."

While critical of then President Bill Clinton, the article was directed more against a Republican Congress which, in their view, had grown increasingly isolationist, particularly after the precipitous U.S. withdrawal from Somalia in 1994 and strong Republican opposition to intervention in the Balkans against Serbian President Slobodan Milosevic.

It was in this spirit that the two co-founded PNAC, whose charter was signed by leading neo-conservatives, including Cheney's future chief of staff, I. Lewis Libby; Rumsfeld's future deputy, Paul Wolfowitz; Bush's future top Middle East aide, Elliott Abrams; his future ambassador to Afghanistan and Iraq, Zalmay Khalilzad; Rumsfeld's future top international security official, Peter Rodman; American Enterprise Institute (AEI) fellow and neo-cons impresario Richard Perle, and Florida Gov. Jeb Bush; as well as Cheney and Rumsfeld themselves.

The charter's few specifics, as well as follow-up reports published by PNAC -- "Rebuilding America's Defenses" and "Present Dangers," both published in 2000 to influence the foreign policy debate during the presidential campaign that year -- were based to a great extent on an infamous "Defense Planning Guidance" (DPG) draft produced under Cheney when he served as secretary of defence under President George H.W. Bush in 1992.

That paper, which was developed by then-Undersecretary of Defence Wolfowitz, Libby, Khalilzad, and the current deputy national security adviser, J.D. Crouch, with assistance from Perle and other like-minded defence specialists, called for the "benevolent domination by one power" (the U.S.) to replace "collective internationalism" and for Washington to ensure that domination, particularly in Eurasia, in order to prevent the emergence, by confrontation if necessary, of any possible regional or global rival.


Digg!

Jim Lobe is the Washington bureau chief for Inter Press Service.

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Common end for totalitarian groups
Posted by: nbrown on Jun 16, 2006 2:10 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Interesting.

If true, it looks like PNAC (the group, not the ideology) is ready to follow in the footsteps of its predecessors. In any group based on totalitarianism, you almost always see power struggles that reduce the group to zero. Of course while the group is extinguished, the ideology continues through the remaining autocrat. Think of Communist Party purges for an example.

The freaky thing about the neocons is that it's a widely accepted dogma and thus decentralized.

So if this article's thesis is true, I'm glad to see PNAC dead. I can't imagine it would hurt things, it can only help, I say. But let's not tell ourselves PNAC's mission went belly-up with it, because it's thriving through the US government and its allies.

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Now that the damage is done...
Posted by: tanstaafl28 on Jun 16, 2006 2:51 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Sort of like reading Mein Kampf after Hitler invaded Poland. The deed is done and there will be hell to pay to undo all the damage caused by groups such as this.

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» Hitler analogies Posted by: peritonlogon
» your response Posted by: ABetterFuture
» wrong Posted by: fuzypupy
» I'm With Fuzy. Posted by: Steven Wanzell
PNAC Problems
Posted by: Tom Degan on Jun 16, 2006 3:21 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The term "American Century" was coined at the end of WWII by the late Time Magazine Founder, Henry Booth Luce. At the time it was obvious that the United States was going to be the world's leader, both economically and militarily, for many years into the future. About ten years ago,when it became obvious that the American Century was coming to an end, both literally and figuatively, I wondered aloud how America, with its history of being a tad reationary at times, would react to the inevitable shifts in the global economic situation. Would it be mature and step aside as gracefully as merrie ol' England did in the first quarter of the twentieth century when it became obvious that she was no longer the main player on the world stage and that the USA was now number one? Or would it have an international nervous breakdown and try to destroy everything it could get its hands on?

Unfortunately, George W. Bush and the Project for a New American Century gave us the answer to that question.

To say that the assholes who cooked up this scheme were "misguided" is the understatement of the age. In fact. they meet all the criteria of bonafide war criminals. When the history of our time is written, the "neo-cons" will be tossed right into history's trash can along with the nazis. They'll be remembered as just another extremist group that tried to force itself down the planet's throat and reaped chaos and destruction in its wake.

I'll say it again: If the republicans are allowed to retain control of the legislative branch of our government after November's mid-term elections, kiss your republic goodbye.

I can't believe that this once-great country has sunk this low. I just can't believe it.

Pray for peace.

Tom Degan
Goshen, NY
http://tomdegan.blogspot.com/

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» RE: PNAC Problems....sickofsleaze Posted by: ladybug1@carrollsweb.com
» RE: PNAC Problems Posted by: medstudgeek
» RE: PNAC Problems Posted by: Tom Degan
I have a horrible feeling...
Posted by: Orwells_nightmare on Jun 16, 2006 3:58 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...that this is another Hydra's head. These circuses have a tendency to dissolve when they become too public and then regroup under a different letterhead, like the Future America Group or something.

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» RE: I have a horrible feeling...sickofsleaze Posted by: ladybug1@carrollsweb.com
sickofsleaze
Posted by: ladybug1@carrollsweb.com on Jun 16, 2006 4:05 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Even if by some miracle the Diebodt machines fail the Republicans this fall, I am very sanguine about our chances of ridding ourselves of this bunch of liars, thieves and election stealers. Not to mention war mongers. We have no legal recourse left, the events of the last few days have shown that, with the Ssupremes marching in lockstep with the Little Dictator, the no-knock dictum yesterday being the latest. The courts are packed with GWB's shills leaving us with only one recourse, the revolutioin so many are advocating. One of Hitler's first acts was to nullify the courts. Another parallel with Hitler, everything Hitler did was legal, tho it took some roughing up some Reichstag members who mistakenly thought the rule of law still prevailed. Takes a lot of stretching but according to the Bushies twisted view they are following the law and abiding by the Constitution.

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» RE: sickofsleaze Posted by: Tom Degan
» RE: sickofsleaze Posted by: ladybug1@carrollsweb.com
» Comparisons with the 3rd Reich Posted by: satorArepo
Criminals, Cowards, Chickenhawks = Republicans and Neocons
Posted by: kooz on Jun 16, 2006 4:40 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I thought cut and run was not an option to them?

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Don't develop a false sense of security.
Posted by: orwellwasn'tdreaming on Jun 16, 2006 4:42 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This group isn't ending, just morphing. The hydra head comment is very apt, and we must be alert for their next manifestation.

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"Mission Accomplished", LOL
Posted by: shinseiji on Jun 16, 2006 4:49 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And only 6 years into the "new century". too. These guys are real farseeing dudes. The next 92 years are secured.

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» RE: "Mission Accomplished", LOL Posted by: Tom Degan
» RE: "Mission Accomplished", LOL Posted by: AlienSlave
PNAC FAILED in its mission
Posted by: sausage on Jun 16, 2006 5:13 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
One of PNAC's goals was to privatize Iraq's oil industry, increase daily production to a figure above Saudi Arabia's output, thereby busting OPEC.

The PNAC gremlins did not take into account the power of the Five Sisters (Big Oil), whose profit margins are hinge on OPEC's ability to enforce production quotas, hence insuring scarcity. Therefore PNAC's privatization of the Iraqi oil industry scheme was overruled and the old Iraqi Ministry of Oil re-instituted. Iraq's oil production is significantly low to ensure OPEC's and the Five Sister's continued profitablity, and the US never getting off the petroleum.

PNAC, in the eyes of the administration, James Baker III and the Republican Party was now a liability. Time to jettison the tiresome group of disaffacted ex-war Democrats, hatched in the soiled nest of the late Henry "Scoop" Jackson, and move on.

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» RE: PNAC FAILED in its mission Posted by: inanaturallight
Actually...
Posted by: dainin on Jun 16, 2006 5:16 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
they have simply moved their offices. You can find them here.

http://www.whitehouse.gov
http://www.house.gov
http://www.senate.gov
http://www.usdoj.gov
etc.

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» RE: Actually... Posted by: Tom Degan
» RE: Actually... Posted by: dainin
» yup Posted by: Michelle
war criminals
Posted by: rsaxto on Jun 16, 2006 5:16 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
All of the leadership of Project for the New American Century are war criminals guilty of mass murder.

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» RE: war criminals Posted by: Tom Degan
» RE: war criminals Posted by: feller
» RE: war criminals Posted by: kellysgarden
» RE: war criminals Posted by: feller
» RE: war criminals Posted by: braxxian
sickofsleaze
Posted by: ladybug1@carrollsweb.com on Jun 16, 2006 6:03 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Re.nothing above except the general a--holiness(nothing to do with religion)of this administrion, I just read a story about theft at the 9 11 sites. When investigators checked whistleblowers claims of thefts, they found Rummy was one of the collectors. So guess what, almost everybody got off scott free because they could not prosecute some and not others. Ain't government good?

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Tony Snow & PNAC
Posted by: HughEScott on Jun 16, 2006 6:14 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yesterday, Tony Snow, Fox news commentator turned Bush propagandist (an obvious redundancy) said the deaths of 2,500 U.S. troops in Iraq weren't in vain.

Oh really, Mr. Smile? Tell that to 56,000 Americans who died in Southeast Asia during my war, only to have PNAC signatory Don Rumsfeld fly to Hanoi and kiss up to our new Commie “friends.”

Face it, people. We’ve been played for suckers by PNAC and the rightwing GOP—fascist scumbags like Bush, Cheney, Rove and Rummy—traitors who split our nation apart for political gain and personal profit.

For the truth about PNAC and their treasonous neocon pals, I invite you to visit my website: www.FreedomCentralUSA.com.

Hugh E. Scott—Vietnam veteran, ex-USAF pilot, lifelong registered Republican, Goldwater conservative and Ronald Reagan fan with a family history of honorable military service going back to 1776.

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A dead red herring.
Posted by: Lincoln fan on Jun 16, 2006 6:25 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Indeed, the fact that several of its half-a-dozen staff members -- most recently, PNAC director Schmitt -- have taken posts at the much-larger AEI located just five floors above PNAC's offices helps illustrate the incestuous nature of the larger network.

In my opinion, The Project for a New American was a probe for the American Enterprise Institute. It was launched as a separate entity for the purpose of shielding the parent organization from harm if it failed. It failed so now the AEI will continue toward the goal of capitalistic world domination at its slower pace.

This is a familiar pattern. When its Republican Party is in power the corporate establishment's agenda is pursued full speed ahead. When they are "thrown out" the establishment proceeds at a slower pace through its Democratic Party. Don't be misled. The corporate establishment can't be voted out. Both parties are owned by the establishment.

There are three traditional solutions to this problem:
1. Start a third party. This is a very long shot. Most people won't vote for a third party because they don't want to "waste their vote". So they waste their vote on a party that doesn't represent them.
2. Work for campaign finance and lobbying reforms. This is also unlikely on a national level. Both parties and their corporate sponsors like things the way they are.
3. Armed revolt. This of course is ridiculous. The establishment has a well equipped army that we bought for them to keep us under control.

There is a way out and it's surprisingly easy. It is The Lincoln Initiative, a unique grassroots movement. Because it's easy many people dismiss it out of hand on the maxim, "If it looks too good to be true; it probably is".

Of course the sensible course would be to say, "Can this work? Is this based on a successful strategy?". It can and it is. It's based on the tactics of the labor unions. First, make your demands with a show of strength to the people who can fulfill them. Second, follow with an "or else".

For more information and assistance click on Join today

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» RE: A dead red herring. Posted by: NoFreeLunch
» RE: A dead red herring. Posted by: Lincoln fan
sickofsleaze
Posted by: ladybug1@carrollsweb.com on Jun 16, 2006 6:37 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Again off the topic but what do you think of the bumfuzzle the liars and thieves are feeding us that Al Qaida is "fading"? Not a trainded politcal scientist but a long time watcher of political shenanigans, I predict that Al Zarqui's death will strengthen, not weaken, the insurgents. Espeially the manner in which he died. I'm not a Mensa but even I know that a blast strong enough to cave in his chest and cause death would cause facial trauma. The Admin's failure is to think other people are dumber than they are and they just don't make them that way

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» RE: sickofsleaze Posted by: feller
» Cutting of the hydra's head Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: sickofsleaze Posted by: ladybug1@carrollsweb.com
» RE: sickofsleaze Posted by: AlienSlave
» RE: sickofsleaze Posted by: ladybug1@carrollsweb.com
» Bingo! Posted by: Steven Wanzell
» RE: Bingo! Posted by: YogiBear
naive article
Posted by: Iconoclast421 on Jun 16, 2006 7:31 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
PNAC members are NOT Nationalists as the author naively claims. They are globalists. They don't care about America... they want to destroy America. They want us to use up all our resources, and they want us competing directly with China. They want a global corporate power structure. They want to shred the constitution and any document like it. If people don't wise up this entire world is going to be nothing but a gigantic Israel vs palestine. Every damn bit of oppression and neofeudalism is going to be justified by this threat of terrorism that they helped to create. We can already see what just one terrorist act has "given" this country. Now imagine ten more. The only ones who hate us enough to do that are the people who stand to gain from it. If we don't take a stand and make sure that it becomes IMPOSSIBLE for any greedy rich maniacal neocon to profit from terror, we will never be free from it.

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» right on! Posted by: sln70
» RE: naive article Posted by: solrev
» RE: naive article - Iconoclast421 Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: naive article - Iconoclast421 Posted by: Iconoclast421
» about Waco and Kent st Posted by: Iconoclast421
» RE: naive article Posted by: Tom Degan
» RE: naive article Posted by: AlienSlave
» RE: naive article Posted by: Steven Wanzell
sickofsleaze
Posted by: ladybug1@carrollsweb.com on Jun 16, 2006 7:49 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Haven't you heard, now that "we" zapped theZ-guy, the insurgency is fading and we will have sweetness and light thruout the middle east and all the Muslims will love us. Until Bush manufactures an excuse to attack Iran.

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» Listen Posted by: feller
» RE: Listen Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: Listen..sickofsleaze Posted by: ladybug1@carrollsweb.com
Victory
Posted by: feller on Jun 16, 2006 8:35 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They won.

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» RE: Victory Posted by: Tom Degan
Mission Accomplished
Posted by: YogiBear on Jun 16, 2006 9:08 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And, sure enough, the Post quoted one unidentified source presumably linked to PNAC that the group was "heading toward closing" with the feeling of "goal accomplished."

It apears the PNAC members as a whole are smarter than their marionette GW. If one falls short of one's goals, declare victory and get out.

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"a radical mugged by reality"
Posted by: olga on Jun 16, 2006 9:08 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
seriously... your comments make an old european radical wanna join the neo-cons. anything constructive regarding human rights and democracy?? and even if the neo-cons were only evil pro-zionist imperialist, what's your take on anti-semitism, the stoning of women, and the wide abuse of human rights by your nice little muslim fundamentalist buddies? seems that you always make peace an anagram of the absence of american war.... get real. it is more complicated and people were dying horribly in iraq prior to american invasion, so NO! it is not a neo-con fault, and maybe rummy and all these europeans for peace should just listen to kristol and kagan and work for peace by just sendig enough troops there... it worked in germany, i can assure you, and everyone is happy about that... just not the nazis. and you don't want to be like them, right?

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» RE: "a radical mugged by reality"....sickofsleaze Posted by: ladybug1@carrollsweb.com
PNAC
Posted by: ArchiesBoy on Jun 16, 2006 9:10 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Sure they can close down now. They have everything they want pretty much in place: war in perpetuity and one-party theocratic rule. Next step: full-blown dictatorship presided over by a moron-in-chief.

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PNAC - cowards all
Posted by: Ghoulman on Jun 16, 2006 9:36 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I've been following PNAC for some time. I've read all thier stuff on the website. Disgusting war mongering with a surprising lack of actual historical knowledge. Basically, it's Cold War planning typical of the Republican Right-Wing crowd of Cheney, Rummy, Wolfowitz, and Kristol. These guys haven't changed since Nixon.

And now, now that the USA is bankrupt, loosing it's economic status world-wide, with a deficit that can't even be believed, and stuck in an illegal war leaving the USA universally hated all over the planet, ... they close up shop?!?!?!

What a bunch of shits. I hear they're critisizing the Bush/Cheney administration, especially Rummy, for "not doing the war right". Whaaaaat crap.

When will Americans realize thier country is being run by a very few in Washington who aren't anymore than cowardly opportunists commited to thier own bank account? These guys ignored reality for thier own greed and didn't care what happened to America. Think about it.

Honestly, people around the world don't hate "American values" or some such nonsense, they hate WASHINGTONs foriegn policy. A policy of Cold War... well, war mongering. And hey, actual war too. Ask anyone in Iraq.

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» RE: PNAC - cowards all sickofsleaze Posted by: ladybug1@carrollsweb.com
Who Do You Support: America or the Terrorists?
Posted by: feller on Jun 16, 2006 10:19 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
congress has just voted overwhelmingly against a deadline to pull out from Iraq. If you consider yourself part of this country and agree with its constitutional framework, you should respect the decision of the elected representatives to allow the Commander in Chief to make the decisions he believes are necessary to conduct the assistance to the Iraq government.

At some point, every organizatiion has to make a strategic decision about where it is going. There should be vigorous debate about that decision prior to its adoption. But once it's made, support the decision or get out of the way.

Respect the opinion of your fellow citizens. Americans have grave concerns about the reasons for the war, but they do not want cut and run from Iraq. We all know what disaster woud occur then (think about Cambodia in the 70's). History perhaps should and will judge GW bush harshly. but the nation has made a key decision: we proceed, we support our troops, and we root for our side, not for the enemy.

In November, a new Congress will be elected. It can reconsider today's Congressional endorsement of the President. Regardless of the outcome of the election, I doubt that any US Congress will dump support for our military, but I could be wrong. As of now however, let's push for victory.

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» I dare call it Treason Posted by: feller
Time if of the essence.
Posted by: mythbuster on Jun 16, 2006 11:06 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The wrapping up of the PNAC is symbolic of the movement's drift. With mounting evidence that the neo-cons understand the Middle East as well as I speak Phoenican, it was time to cut their loses and return the the Mother Ship (the AEI).

I attended a meeting last night with a liberal Zionist who argues about more and more "wasted" opportunities to solve the Israeli-Arab conflict. In a sense, the Israeli-Arab conflict is just a sub-set of the American Imperial Project in teh Middle East. The only "rush" to solve the problem is the fear that the Arab World is finally understanding what American "freedom" means to them: Foreign control over their resources and the virtual transformation of the Arabic States into American client states. Within 10 years a revitalized Russia and ascendant China will make this project impossible. Hence, the rush to "solve" these problems now.

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sickofsleaze
Posted by: ladybug1@carrollsweb.com on Jun 16, 2006 11:24 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I agree we must get involved and take back our government. In order to do that we must first fix our broken, corrupt judicial system. In the last few days two court rulings have given Bush carte blanche to use our Constitution for Charmen. Monday a 3-judge appeals court upheld Bush's illegal, unconstitutional wiretapping program. Then the Supremes ruled in favor of the no-knock hit on our civil rights. One of the wiretap appeals judges who ruled in favor of the wiretaps has a sinister history. David Sentelle, one of the appeals court judges who ruled in favor of the wiretaps had a 3 hour lunch in the Senate dining room with Senator Jesse Helms of NC, the Clintonphobe. Shortly after the lunch, Sentelle was appointed to an unprecedented 2nd term on the panel that chose special prosecutors. Prior to this judges had only served one term and then rotated. Shortly after THIS Sentelle appointed the little priggish Bible-toting Star to the Whitewater probe and any other alleged Clinton misdeeds and brought in Richard Mellon Scaife the rightwing nut with way more money than good sense. In the Supremes ruling, Bush's appointes ruled in favor of the Nazified no-knock case. Even tho the laws were twisted, EVERYTING Hitler did was legal. With the German mania for order, they followed Hitler lemming-like to Gotterdammering. Ironically Hitler was a Wagner fan and went to the Bayreuth Wagner Festival every year

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America or Terrorists: a False Choice
Posted by: StuartH on Jun 16, 2006 11:39 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Sometimes it seems that if a probe from another solar system came to earth to assess whether this planet had intelligent life forms on it, the report back would be "negative."

America versus Terrorism is a false choice, which only works because we all want to reduce the complex to simplistic terms.

What we as Americans must be responsible for is becoming conscious. We bear this duty more than any other people on earth because the power and its consequences exercised in our name cause effects. We cannot be ignorant of them.

If you study the America that people in other countries have to be confronted with, it isn't necessarily what we like to think.

In truth, we funded Saddam when it was convenient and made him the power in the region that he became. We also had a hand in funding and training the insurgents in Afghanistan when it was convenient to incite violent islamist extremism. A consequence of this was that Osama Bin Laden was activated.
Al Qaeda and other terrorisms we have declared war on are at least partly "blowback" from American actions of the past.
We should be dealing with the dynamics and how to change the way we use the military to incite angry reactions.

We have been using our military to support the interests of multinational corporations and have overthrown 14 elected national governments. Have we stopped to ask whether any of this was justified or fair? There never was any public debate and the reasons were always those calculated to yank the public strings, including those of Congress.

To wake up is to question. To question is to possibly change our course to one that is really more just.

The great question of our time is whether we are going to be led unconsciously into moving away from a Republic towards an empire to control oil and other resources, or are we going to use our best intelligence and join the rest of the human race in an effort to see how many we can help survive into the 22nd century? If you prefer to have your chank yanked, then the most important question is whether you oppose gay marriage.

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Reason To Stay In Iraq
Posted by: michellej on Jun 16, 2006 12:16 PM   
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We have to stay if for no other reason to clean up the mess we made. We owe that to the people of Iraq. Put the troops to work aggressively to accomplish this.

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» RE: Get oooouuuuut! Posted by: Ghoulman
» RE: reason To Stay In Iraq Posted by: evdebsfan
» kudos Posted by: feller
They won
Posted by: Maryanne on Jun 16, 2006 12:29 PM   
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An obit for the PNAC is premature.

They won. They got the crisis they wanted- 9-11, and they got endless war. We have had Afghanistan (increasingly less under control), Iraq (a mess that we will be in until "Another president" does something about it- if then), activity to disrupt Iran, Liz Cheney working on regime change in Syria. And we with an overstressed army. So do we depend on more military from contractors- at even greater expense?

The people in PNAC haven't changed their spots- they have moved into positions where they do not need the PNAC to gain control. They will infect organization after organization to perpetluate the goals of the PNAC as long as they are around and not neutralized.

Don't plan any funerals for them. The funerals are for our young military, and for the innocent civilians of the countries we have chosen to dominate.

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You just shut up! Don't you dare tell me to
Posted by: k9disc on Jun 16, 2006 3:17 PM   
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abandon my responsibilities as an American to check and participate in the decisions of my government.

You just shut your mouth! Zip... Zip!... zip...

Not very pleasant, is it?

This is all of ours' country. We all can exercise our political speech as we see fit, criticizing the titanic fiasco that President Bush and this Corporate Sponsored Congress created is not only my obligation, it is my right.

So you just shut up with that, "with us or with the terrorists" and, "Your betters have spoken, so shut up and get out of the way" bullshit.

Zip it...

ZIP!

zip...

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sickofsleaze
Posted by: ladybug1@carrollsweb.com on Jun 16, 2006 6:01 PM   
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The evening news was full of the latest scare and manufactured crises of the First Bogeyman; or is it the first bogusman? North Korea is about to nuke Caly fur ni a according to the talking heads. Does any one seriously think North Korea would attack this country? There is no contest. In 1950 Korea had the backing of China, now they would be on their own. As much dinero as Bush owes China do you think they are going to blow it away?

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» RE: sickofsleaze Posted by: sallyb36
PNAC's only going underground
Posted by: ibemee on Jun 17, 2006 11:02 AM   
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Don't be ridiculous! The PNAC's are NOT 'going to ground' ~ they are simply going UNDERground. Taking their Sneak & Deceit to a secure server, avoiding public access. With their usual 'super-superiority' they believed that the populace is too stupid to understand anything, so they were taken by surprise that the peasantry would not only uncover their manifesto but use it to EXPOSE them up to their ears in their own crud.

One more little fact you should NOT forget: John McCain shared an address and a telephone number with them! Don't let the wool be pulled over your eyes by THAT little coyote.

Democrats sure could take ONE lesson from them, though: it's loosely called "loyalty". Sadly, Dems are like a herd of grasshoppers: no leaders, no schematic, no map, no cohesion, with the Dems it's like a Million Man March, but with all the men marching in different directions at different times.
But with the PNAC's it's taken beyond "loyalty" - they have a sort of gang-oriented-blood-pact style of "pack-dependence".

You see, it works like this: in the Real World people act too much like hamsters: when one gets injured the rest either go to another corner and hide while others jump on him and eat him.

But the PNAC gang-style-dependence, aka 'loyalty', when one of their own is attacked, they form an impervious tight ring around him and throw out some diversion until the attack blows over. ie: recent attacks on Bush, Rumsfeld, Rove, Cheney, et al... notice how time and time again one or another of them comes into the line of fire but swiftly fades out of sight for awhile. "Out of sight, out of mind" works for their protection of each other every time. Soon the flap passes and they're back doing their dirtywork as usual. They are the Evil Genius'.
Masters of PsyOps, first and foremost.
Masters of Deceit.
Masters of of Diversion large and small, from 9-11 to raising a hullabaloo about passing laws denoting english language as our mother tongue (du-uhh) to instigating divisions throughout society, insinuating hate & bigotry, to the flag (which after all, is only a symbol - not an entity)
Masters of Fear Factors: from creating Fear of Terrorist Attack on the Homefront, to Bird Flu to immigrants.
AND throughout it all they are pack-oriented. Jackals.

Guess I should mention the 'real' Republicans in passing. If the Dems are Grasshoppers and the PNACzies are Jackals, the 'real' Republicans are Ostriches. A few have awakened from their 'partisan-induced-comas to begin suspecting their Party has been seized... (even poor ole Trent Lott looks like a deer in the headlights lately, wondering how he morphed from Mister Important Bigshot to just a patch of wallpaper) I'd like to see the Dems specify PNAC's instead of bashing "republicans", because the PNACzies are republicans in name only. They chose the GOP in order to harvest the many benefits afforded by established Support. We need the disenchanted Republicans to help fight the Pnaczies, let's leave the light on for them....

While I congratulate my fellow citizens for grasping the dire threat to Our Nation under the PNAC-Manifesto, I still hold shakey hopes that they'll understand how imperative it is to purge our government of these truly Evil men RIGHT NOW, THIS YEAR, before they have any more time in which to decimate our Constitution and put us all under a One Party System. How many can understand that it really IS that drastic and perilous?

After all, in a survey, something like +80% of people on the street thought 'God Bless America' is our national anthum, two thirds didn't know who Cheney was, some thought he's in politics, some thought he was a guy who got shot, and one thought he was England's WWII president. (...and they vote!)

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Now that the Republicans are waking up, when are the Democrats going to?
Posted by: resistance6 on Jun 19, 2006 3:16 AM   
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We've got Hillary geering up to run as a war president. Rupert Murdoch is sponsoring her. They have meetings every week.

Meantime, the Republican NeoCONs are closing up shop.

I'm sure Hillary can slice and dice as well as George Bush, maybe better, since she is a high priestess in the Illuminati, the division that does religious torture and human sacrifice to Lucifer.

These people are all bloodthirsty, greedy, wicked monsters.

We need to throw them ALL out, Democrats and Republicans BOTH. And we need to throw out their JUDGES, the ones who have trashed the Constitution and stolen our country from us.

And we need to repent to God for turning our backs on some of our own people -- like the babies, the weak and infirm. For becoming like animals, murderous vampires. We need to restore the right to life of all people (and unborn babies are people, no matter what lame propaganda the baby-murdering industry puts out). After all, the right to life is the FIRST right enumeated in the Declaration of Independence, the document which founded our country and is the foundation for our Constitution. Without the right to life, no other rights have any meaning anyway.

We need to stop corrupting our churches with 501C3 status, telling them what they can and can't say in their pulpets.

We need to crack down on the monopolies. Monopolies are supposed to be illegal, aren't they? They were the last I heard. Nowadays though the monopolies just take their business overseas and keep a few branches open in the United States, and then lobby the heck out of Congress (ie bribe, threaten, blackmail).

We need to get out of the UN and all these global agreements we're in that have taken away our sovereignty.

We need to build a thick, electrified barbed wire fence across our southern border, maybe our nortnern one as well. Every four or five miles we need a lookout tower with guards to see that people don't come in who aren't supposed to be here. The first job of government is to protect our borders from foreign invasion. If the factory farms can't get enough labor, too bad. More people can take up farming and we can have more small farms. Lord knows we need the jobs since our economy is devastated.

We just need to clean house and start over.

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